To a avoid water/frost/ rain penetration you can caulk all joints and roll some paint over deck and sides ( if temperature permits). I did this on a large floor deck as the framers couldn't do the walls for 3 weeks. It rained several times and the water puddled on the deck but was easily swept off and dried relatively quickly. Due to the caulking and coats of paint there was no water penetration and the floor was not compromised. Much better than trying to keep dry by covering with plastic and hoping to keep the water out. The floor was 40'x40'.
I’m planning to caulk the joints of my subfloor sheathing where it’s insulated above the garage. The exact same approach as you’re taking here. I’m using Zip sheathing underneath only because it’s what’s being used on the exterior walls, and will blow the floor in with cellulose, a permeable net, and then put the sheathing on last. Caulking the subfloor is the key to keeping moisture out in the winter but allowing the floor to dry if necessary, exactly as you point out here. Nicely done! 👍
my englisch is not so good. The log house from Albert Einstein with 10 centimeter logs is still without mold or fungi Its 100 years old and dry! A friend of me had an inspection of this. Cellolouse was part of the floor and wall insolation and it coud breathe thats why it was dry. Give the natural fiber a chance to breathe.@@superspeeder
I liked your video and can support many of your points. However I can't align with no poly in the floor. A floor with an open crawl space is a wall laying flat. The moisture comes from occupants who will through natural respiration release 2 quarts / 8 hr period of moisture into the home. Vapor control is required by code (OBC & NBC in Canada) = no ditching poly. Alternatively use spray foam... Also poly stops air leakage as you discussed later.
The 3/4" subfloor sheathing is impermeable enough to resist water vapor by diffusion. Decades of physical observations have shown that what migrates through over a heating season is minor - even in zone 8. Keep in mind this is a raised floor system. No crawlspace underneath......just the great outdoors. Since indoor building pressures trend negative at the subfloor plane in these situations, all air leakage tends to be outdoor air drawn in to the house in winter time. This means if holes in the subfloor do exist, they represent a comfort issue and an energy drain, but its cold/dry outdoor air being drawn in. Post & Pad construction is widespread across Alaska and Canada. That said, I have yet to see significant indoor humidity/condensation related issues in a post and pad floor. The only thing I could see doing it is if the home were pressurized, but that would be pretty extreme. I've built and inspected hundreds of raised floors across Alaska. In my opinion, the poly is really risky in this location. One thing that will kill a floor is poly under the subflooring IF IF IF it traps water. Not only does the poly negate gluing the subfloor to the joists, more importantly it becomes a trap for any water that gets either spilled on the floor or any weather that gets in during construction. I have seen maybe a dozen floors that failed due to trapping water between the poly and the subflooring. It just sits there on the poly if there is no means for it to dry out quickly. We had one here that took 10 years before the moisture that got in during construction rotted the floor to the point that it was noticeable. At that point the whole thing had to be replaced. I hope that clarifies the conditions a little better. If you have seen cases where a raised floor failed for other reasons, please share. You can also reach me by email. I'm always interested in what others are seeing out there.
Thanks for your video. You may have R30+ in the bats, but your joists are maybe R8-10. I think there should be two floors with some closed air space and or hard Styrofoam in between.
The biggest mistake for me is that there is no radiant heat insulation used right now between wool and osb when every single test show its properties far better than just wool SINGLE LAYER or radiant heat insulation (metalized foam etc) on top of wool (inside) can make the insulating properties 3x BETTER when installed properly (gap between top (metalized side) to the wall ( osb or any other material)--- or just no wall at all (attic etc ) just replace vapour barrier with Radiant Heat Insulation 2 in 1 that also works like vapour barrier its awesome stuff , cheap and can change your warm house to almost passive one that is super warm because it multiply insulating properties by first reflecting most of the heat (literally like mirror but for radiant heat) before it even reach main insulation like wool etc (that can also be just air gap ) but then you need at least 2 or more layers of radiant heat insulation with air gap between for that) you also put it from the outside to keep heat outside
Shouldn't there be a Tyvek type of building wrap material attach to the underside of the floor framing and sheathing to stop the wind from entering the fiberglass insulation?
Better imo... 1. Tack wire mesh to top of joists to keep mice out. 2. Plastic on top of mesh. 3. Screw 2x2 diagonals to floor joists, allows a 3" screw thru. Diagonals protects against racking so ply/OSB isn't needed. 4. Additional layers of 2x2's on top of previous. Built up beam basically. Using 2x2's allows for using crap, cheaper lumber to can rip down yourself. You can even glue layers creating basically a gluelam. 5. Insulate that layer. Using 2x2s you could have made a 2x4 beam, 2x6, 2x8, whatever. 6. 2x2's screwed on top parallel and above the joists. These are now diagonal to the lower. 7. Insulate that built up layers of 2x2s. This reduced the thermal bridge present when solid 2x8, 10, 12 is used. Greatly reduces gaps between insulation and wood because batts are in 2 layers diagonal to each other. Cellulose can be used and put in after both 2x2 beams are in. Saves a lot of money not needing ply/OSB. Panels were invented to save labor. Diagonal solid wood did the same for decades before panels. Running wires and water pipes just got super easy. Waste lines can be run before any 2x2''s and then a 2x2 raceway can be screwed down around the sewer lines. No need to punch holes in 2x8, 10, 12s.
Forget all that. Just use bubble foil under plywood. Skirt cabin with wood wall lined with bubble foil. That's it No wire no mesh no insulation no mice no mess Warm floors. drain pipes and dirt underneath cabin will not freeze
I looking at building a floor like your using but it will be resting on a concrete pad. My biggest concern is water infiltration even though pad will be 6 inches above ground level. There's the possibility of snow piling up against the house melting and infiltrating the floor. Any thought or strategy's I might use to negate this problem?
I am not a critic...BUT...if u read the bag owens corning tells u to leave an air gap with the fiberglass...if it isnt fluffed then there is no trapped air which is what in sulates...im also impressed...no gloves...short sleeves...no mask...very impressed
The f Foundation system I have is similar in concept as this one. The ground will freeze with winter and thaw in the summer. But the house won't heat the ground
You should consider rock wool (also called other brand names) for the floors. It's more resistant to mould and a floor is a place where that can collect. I'm really curious about the lack of vapor barrier. I'm guessing that the floor is a bad place to use it because water can pool on the barrier, inside the floor.
Lovely. Full of thermal bridges and insulation materials that shrink over time and loose insulating properties. Nice work though. In Europe this is shed-quality work.
Relax with your snide comment. Offer solutions rather than put downs. EU got duped (again) into a Central Bank war. You will need those amazing insulating and building skills for your bunkers. Don’t forget about air filtration. 😢
If the winter air under the home is -20F then all the lumber under the house is -20F. Subfloor sitting atop -20F framing will lose thermal energy to the frame which acts as a heat sink. All the insulation in the world stuffed between the joists won't change that. Wondering why you don't use a foam layer or other material in the floor structure to decouple the warm from the cold, such as the insulated Zip sheathing? Thanks
Good options too. Look into whether your home insurance would still cover you. In 🇨🇦 a super efficient straw-bale home is very difficult to insure. Even though it’s concrete on every surface! 🤦🏽♀️
Typically when possible one side of a floor is sheathed and then flipped over so the other side can be sheathed. For larger floors panel sections are framed then sheathed one side then flipped and connected with other sections. IF you are dealing with sheathing an existing structure then you will typically need to men working together laying on their backs or sitting up if their is enough room to do so.
@@RR98guy I was thinking the same, modular pieces then flipped. Wasn't sure how much that would weaken the foundation of the house though being in a bunch of pieces.
If it isn’t broken don’t fix it. I’ve seen wizardry happen in DOS software in capable ( often elderly) hands that would have Windows crash. Software licensing is ridiculously expensive. 😅
I wouldn’t touch a Knuaf product they sold insulation to a now bankrupt company when same building had a BSI consultancy report stipulated the product cavity wall insulation wasn’t to be installed. I admit they maybe weren’t informed? However, where are their experts ? Building is riddled thermal bridging and doesn’t meet current insulation standard thanks Knuaf UK. Thanks Knuaf legal department obvious I won’t be agreement to your demands.
This is the most inefficient way of doing a floor. The best thing is to frame and insulate pony walls on the perimeter to frame the floor on top. Minimum height should be 24 inches but ideally 40 inches high is the best.
44 comments and no one realizes this was filmed Feb 5th 2013. This is old information. All your nitpicking about how this was done is complaining about the past.
Thanks for your video.
Thanks for you videos. I've picked up some good tips for my insulating projects at home.
To a avoid water/frost/ rain penetration you can caulk all joints and roll some paint over deck and sides ( if temperature permits). I did this on a large floor deck as the framers couldn't do the walls for 3 weeks. It rained several times and the water puddled on the deck but was easily swept off and dried relatively quickly. Due to the caulking and coats of paint there was no water penetration and the floor was not compromised. Much better than trying to keep dry by covering with plastic and hoping to keep the water out. The floor was 40'x40'.
What paint did you use?
Awesome, thanks for the share!
Great info, thanks!
Rockwool insulation would have been a better choice.
I found this very educational.
I’m planning to caulk the joints of my subfloor sheathing where it’s insulated above the garage. The exact same approach as you’re taking here. I’m using Zip sheathing underneath only because it’s what’s being used on the exterior walls, and will blow the floor in with cellulose, a permeable net, and then put the sheathing on last.
Caulking the subfloor is the key to keeping moisture out in the winter but allowing the floor to dry if necessary, exactly as you point out here. Nicely done! 👍
I am a facility manager. cellulose only if you have a poor wood suroundig never coverd with plasic foil. Cellulose must be able zu dry natural
@@frankpohl4377 no plastic at all in the insulated subfloor. The cellulose is sandwiched between permeable Zip sheathing and Advantech subfloor.
my englisch is not so good. The log house from Albert Einstein with 10 centimeter logs is still without mold or fungi Its 100 years old and dry! A friend of me had an inspection of this. Cellolouse was part of the floor and wall insolation and it coud breathe thats why it was dry. Give the natural fiber a chance to breathe.@@superspeeder
I liked your video and can support many of your points. However I can't align with no poly in the floor. A floor with an open crawl space is a wall laying flat. The moisture comes from occupants who will through natural respiration release 2 quarts / 8 hr period of moisture into the home. Vapor control is required by code (OBC & NBC in Canada) = no ditching poly. Alternatively use spray foam... Also poly stops air leakage as you discussed later.
The 3/4" subfloor sheathing is impermeable enough to resist water vapor by diffusion. Decades of physical observations have shown that what migrates through over a heating season is minor - even in zone 8. Keep in mind this is a raised floor system. No crawlspace underneath......just the great outdoors. Since indoor building pressures trend negative at the subfloor plane in these situations, all air leakage tends to be outdoor air drawn in to the house in winter time. This means if holes in the subfloor do exist, they represent a comfort issue and an energy drain, but its cold/dry outdoor air being drawn in. Post & Pad construction is widespread across Alaska and Canada. That said, I have yet to see significant indoor humidity/condensation related issues in a post and pad floor. The only thing I could see doing it is if the home were pressurized, but that would be pretty extreme. I've built and inspected hundreds of raised floors across Alaska. In my opinion, the poly is really risky in this location. One thing that will kill a floor is poly under the subflooring IF IF IF it traps water. Not only does the poly negate gluing the subfloor to the joists, more importantly it becomes a trap for any water that gets either spilled on the floor or any weather that gets in during construction. I have seen maybe a dozen floors that failed due to trapping water between the poly and the subflooring. It just sits there on the poly if there is no means for it to dry out quickly. We had one here that took 10 years before the moisture that got in during construction rotted the floor to the point that it was noticeable. At that point the whole thing had to be replaced. I hope that clarifies the conditions a little better. If you have seen cases where a raised floor failed for other reasons, please share. You can also reach me by email. I'm always interested in what others are seeing out there.
Thanks for your video. You may have R30+ in the bats, but your joists are maybe R8-10. I think there should be two floors with some closed air space and or hard Styrofoam in between.
I was surprised to see it not get plumbed before you put the top ply on. Will this building get plumbed after?
The biggest mistake for me is that there is no radiant heat insulation used right now between wool and osb when every single test show its properties far better than just wool
SINGLE LAYER or radiant heat insulation (metalized foam etc) on top of wool (inside) can make the insulating properties 3x BETTER when installed properly (gap between top (metalized side) to the wall ( osb or any other material)--- or just no wall at all (attic etc )
just replace vapour barrier with Radiant Heat Insulation 2 in 1 that also works like vapour barrier
its awesome stuff , cheap and can change your warm house to almost passive one that is super warm because it multiply insulating properties by first reflecting most of the heat (literally like mirror but for radiant heat) before it even reach main insulation like wool etc
(that can also be just air gap ) but then you need at least 2 or more layers of radiant heat insulation with air gap between for that)
you also put it from the outside to keep heat outside
Shouldn't there be a Tyvek type of building wrap material attach to the underside of the floor framing and sheathing to stop the wind from entering the fiberglass insulation?
Better imo...
1. Tack wire mesh to top of joists to keep mice out.
2. Plastic on top of mesh.
3. Screw 2x2 diagonals to floor joists, allows a 3" screw thru. Diagonals protects against racking so ply/OSB isn't needed.
4. Additional layers of 2x2's on top of previous. Built up beam basically. Using 2x2's allows for using crap, cheaper lumber to can rip down yourself. You can even glue layers creating basically a gluelam.
5. Insulate that layer. Using 2x2s you could have made a 2x4 beam, 2x6, 2x8, whatever.
6. 2x2's screwed on top parallel and above the joists. These are now diagonal to the lower.
7. Insulate that built up layers of 2x2s.
This reduced the thermal bridge present when solid 2x8, 10, 12 is used. Greatly reduces gaps between insulation and wood because batts are in 2 layers diagonal to each other. Cellulose can be used and put in after both 2x2 beams are in.
Saves a lot of money not needing ply/OSB. Panels were invented to save labor. Diagonal solid wood did the same for decades before panels.
Running wires and water pipes just got super easy. Waste lines can be run before any 2x2''s and then a 2x2 raceway can be screwed down around the sewer lines. No need to punch holes in 2x8, 10, 12s.
Forget all that.
Just use bubble foil under plywood.
Skirt cabin with wood wall lined with bubble foil.
That's it
No wire no mesh no insulation no mice no mess
Warm floors. drain pipes and dirt underneath cabin will not freeze
Great ideas, thanks for sharing.
I looking at building a floor like your using but it will be resting on a concrete pad. My biggest concern is water infiltration even though pad will be 6 inches above ground level. There's the possibility of snow piling up against the house melting and infiltrating the floor. Any thought or strategy's I might use to negate this problem?
I am not a critic...BUT...if u read the bag owens corning tells u to leave an air gap with the fiberglass...if it isnt fluffed then there is no trapped air which is what in sulates...im also impressed...no gloves...short sleeves...no mask...very impressed
Interesting thank you.
The f
Foundation system I have is similar in concept as this one. The ground will freeze with winter and thaw in the summer. But the house won't heat the ground
How does this work with ventilation on the underside of the floor?
It is just basically a cathedral type vented roof assembly, but upside down?
You can use blow in insulation on the OSB on bottom floor system.
You should consider rock wool (also called other brand names) for the floors. It's more resistant to mould and a floor is a place where that can collect.
I'm really curious about the lack of vapor barrier. I'm guessing that the floor is a bad place to use it because water can pool on the barrier, inside the floor.
❤❤❤❤❤ . Sound insulation , and thermal capacity ?
Lovely. Full of thermal bridges and insulation materials that shrink over time and loose insulating properties. Nice work though. In Europe this is shed-quality work.
Relax with your snide comment. Offer solutions rather than put downs.
EU got duped (again) into a Central Bank war. You will need those amazing insulating and building skills for your bunkers. Don’t forget about air filtration. 😢
If the winter air under the home is -20F then all the lumber under the house is -20F. Subfloor sitting atop -20F framing will lose thermal energy to the frame which acts as a heat sink. All the insulation in the world stuffed between the joists won't change that. Wondering why you don't use a foam layer or other material in the floor structure to decouple the warm from the cold, such as the insulated Zip sheathing? Thanks
Just do a layer of an insulted board on the outside under the house foam boards not the cheapest but it's continuous and got plenty of space 😂😂😂
Foam board requires coverage by drywall due to fire code in our county. That changes things for my application.
Ever tried wood fiber insulation?
Im surprised you didnt add a 2x2" spacer system to move the bottom floor joists away from the weather to avoid the so called thermal bridging effect.
Do the insulations batts sag over time?
They should not sag if kept dry and the installation is done properly, as demonstrated here.
😮 wie sieht es aus mit ökologischer Dämmung? Cellulose oder Holzfasern?
Good options too.
Look into whether your home insurance would still cover you.
In 🇨🇦 a super efficient straw-bale home is very difficult to insure.
Even though it’s concrete on every surface! 🤦🏽♀️
OSB and plywood do not have similar perm ratings
What is the R value of the hair piece on that guys head?
Your focus to detail is truly envied by all. LOL
I've been trying to figure out how you deck the bottom of the house, that has to be a total pain in the arse.
Typically when possible one side of a floor is sheathed and then flipped over so the other side can be sheathed. For larger floors panel sections are framed then sheathed one side then flipped and connected with other sections. IF you are dealing with sheathing an existing structure then you will typically need to men working together laying on their backs or sitting up if their is enough room to do so.
@@RR98guy I was thinking the same, modular pieces then flipped. Wasn't sure how much that would weaken the foundation of the house though being in a bunch of pieces.
You would need to either set them upon timber or steel beams and the screw them or bolt them together.@@rummy98
Это что там на экране компьютера? Текстовый режим? Они что, до сих пор в MS DOS работают???
If it isn’t broken don’t fix it.
I’ve seen wizardry happen in DOS software in capable ( often elderly) hands that would have Windows crash.
Software licensing is ridiculously expensive.
😅
2 words *SPRAY FOAM*
I wouldn’t touch a Knuaf product they sold insulation to a now bankrupt company when same building had a BSI consultancy report stipulated the product cavity wall insulation wasn’t to be installed. I admit they maybe weren’t informed? However, where are their experts ? Building is riddled thermal bridging and doesn’t meet current insulation standard thanks Knuaf UK. Thanks Knuaf legal department obvious I won’t be agreement to your demands.
This is the most inefficient way of doing a floor. The best thing is to frame and insulate pony walls on the perimeter to frame the floor on top. Minimum height should be 24 inches but ideally 40 inches high is the best.
1:36 "Highlights of a retrofit to be placed here" .. LOL .. you guys don't watch your own video in post? 😀
Fiberglass bats and OSB are both mistakes in building. Cheaper, yes, but less performing and reliable.
Any batt insulation is subpar.
44 comments and no one realizes this was filmed Feb 5th 2013. This is old information. All your nitpicking about how this was done is complaining about the past.
And yet here you are…
Knit picking the knit pickers on a 10+ year old video. Ironic…
What is the contemporary solution?
Styrofoam is better.
Music is painfull, jist 💩