Study MBTi for at least several years intensely and you will finally not be confused. Beware of all MBTI stereotypes and over simplification. Study, study, study.
Jung specifically said that Fi tends not to show emotion. He said, "Still waters run deep." And when it does show emotion, it does so in a childish manner.
@Miss reign INTPs show emotion in a childish manner (mostly I see this with anger and frustration)... when they do and you can catch it... psst... have them watch a sad movie where a dog dies and get ready with your camera
It's pretty fascinating to watch how she's total series and have absolute no emotion on her face for one second and she's laughing like a baby the next second. I always get distracted watching this and have to go back to listen to what they were saying
I think that, in many ways, Fe is a rational function. Heavy Fe users easily internalize the spoken and unspoken customs/social norms of a given group. They can tell you if a certain course of action could cost you your job, social standing, money, or even your life. Secondarily, Fe users enjoy pleasant chit chat with other humans wherin we exchange potentially useful information or find new members for our social network who may be useful in the future. Its not simply an outlet for expressing emotions.
@@stevedavenport1202 I think the best way to explain this to people is to take the 4 functions that we understand with traditional connotations of what they mean (Ne, Fi, Ti, Se) and build up their opposing functions as their complements. In this case, how we traditionally conceive of feeling and thinking is as something unique to us individually. So, their complements can be defined by what each do not do for ourselves. Using feeling to decide values for ourselves is in contrast to using thinking to discern reasons from others (Te). Similarly, using thinking to decide reasons for ourselves is in contrast to using feeling to discern values from others (Fe).
@@TheLucidDreamer12 you’re sucked in. Te isn’t reasons from others. That’s Fe. Te is how things work. Ti is defining things, logic. Fe is others’ values and reasons. Not all reasons are reasonable. Not all knowledge is correct. That’s why it’s NOT OBJECTIVE Te. Te is ACTUALLY objective. It is fallible, but it isn’t stupid. If you put a Te-Dom in a world full of people who get nothing right, the Te-dom isn’t just going to buy everyone else’s B.S. They DO NOT BECOME GENERALS THAT WAY. Te strategizes. It says, “If I do this, that will happen. If I do that, then that will happen.” And it tells others, “If you do that, then THAT will happen.” It is LOGIC. It is extraverted because it deals with the object. Introverted Thinking deals with the subject. That means it’s defining things. This IS that. That IS this. So, IF this IS that, then THAT is also THIS. Logic. But it needs information to sort… So, that is why you need to take in through senses (Se), refer to your memory (Si), pay attention to LIKENESSES (Ne; where things ARE events and are like SYNONYMS of each other, instead of paying attention to the DISTINCTNESS of a thing…) or pay attention to WHAT COULD or SHOULD happen (Ni - in this SPECIFIC scenario). Why do you think Ni-Te is such a mastermind? Because Ni tells the INTJ the ONE LIKELY IMAGE of what the end result could or should be - and then Te reinforces that image by KNOWING HOW THE THINGS WORK and so is able to build or project a REALISTIC thing or event (such as knowing how the chess pieces move, knowing the current position on the board, and forecasting the likely END and therefore arranging the order of events logically to PRODUCE that outcome). Yeah…
Lots of fakeness in this OPS stuff. I wish I had never seen it or taken it seriously. It’s affected my ability to reason by having their information in my head.
YES!!!! I am ENFJ and my ESFJ friend and I were discussing how we feel uncomfortable displaying our emotions. It makes us feel like we lack control of ourselves. We do however care intensely about what makes everyone around us "happy". On a side note, neither of us are big huggers.
After years of trying to figure it out, I finally came to the realization that Fe is social thinking. Feelings are feelings and thoughts are thoughts, and everyone has feelings and everyone has thoughts. There are no people who have no feelings and no thoughts. But not everyone is good at social thinking. And Fi is not just personal feelings...it is actually an observational frame of mind that comes out from the self...emotional and self-awareness are simply going along with that. (The T/F dichotomy probably has to die and be replaced simply by an objective/subjective dichotomy.) I struggled for years trying to decide if I were an INFP or an INTP and I realized...can I not have traits of both? Then I found out that I am actually on the autism spectrum. So if I am on the spectrum, does that mean that I don't have feelings? Or if I type as an INFP, does that mean that I can't be autistic? People are far too complex to be squeezed into these odd binary classification systems. I have many thoughts and I have many feelings, and I don't need a classification system to either verify that fact or invalidate it. However I am still terrible at social thinking.
I have been very hesitant to believe I am an INFJ, because that's everyone...and I usually type as INFP. But I am without a doubt masculine Fe, and have learned to develop my Ti. I'm bad at taking in new info, I hate it, but have also learned to do it when I need it. You have THE BEST descriptions of the functions I've ever heard, and I feel like I finally understand! If I were going off behavior based descriptions, I would forever be confused about my type. Thank you!
You'd have to ask others... You can't perceive yourself. Or record yourself talking for an hour and see what comes up... Are you talking about people and your relationships with them or about projects and ideas? Are you talking about real things that actually happened or are you off into space without any tangible topic? Do you find it easy to talk for an hour, an hour and a half or was it difficult to keep talking? Etc
I realized Fe-Ti & Fi-Te are dynamics. Somehow I think Ti prioritizes security/safety, being obsessed with accuracy & truth as to be effective, then going to check on what the tribe wants (and which of those desires may bring us closer to security or farther from it.) On the otherhand, Fi prioritizes satisfaction, obsessing over the fulillment of desires, outsourcing the logical capacity of the tribe (Te) in order to get what it wants. But then the nuances of such a dynamic, especially habitual dependence of the extroverted saviors towards tribe validation has a tendency to dilute the introverted deciders. Thus the ExTJ's are IxFP's who got lost in the excessive exposure to the logic of others (where most if not all are fallacy-rich sources) as they try to figure out how to get what it wants. In contrast, ExFJ's are IxTP's who gave up effeciency & accuracy in favor of finding security in the tribe's acceptance, or rather, figured out that the tribe can do a better job in ensuring personal safety.
Jung literally said that Fi people don't show emotions. "It is principally among women that I have found the priority of introverted feeling. The proverb 'Still waters run deep' is very true of such women. They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and not infrequently their temperament is melancholic. They neither shine nor reveal themselves."
@@charlee2470 then you are NOT ISFP. I know TWO ISFPs very personally, an INFP, and an ENFP. They DO NOT wear their emotions on their sleeves. They FINALLY express them under DURESS. And God help everyone when they do!! Jung is the man who NAMED THE FUNCTIONS we are discussing!!!! If you’re not talking about his definitions, we’re not talking about the same things!
Yes, Drew. They type the SUBCONSCIOUS. They type upside down… ironically. And worse, they don’t get what the functions do, so they type upside down AND sideways. Lol.
yassss this is so true. i hate the stereotypes. im an ENFP and people always say, “oh you have high Fi, you are way more aware of your emotions than i am” and im like.... YO! Stop right there, that is not what Fi does!!!!
Michelle Wilson, actually that sounds closer to an Si to me, unless by “understand all the pieces” you mean “they need reasons works it,” and not that “they need to know the data”
The part about feminine and masculine feeling just made me realize why there is such a big difference between my flatmate (ESFP) and me (ENFP) despite both being Fi/Te.
The only reason why Fi tends to conceal emotions is that the outside force would say that your subjective moral you value is wrong. It hurts us that way.
Then let people tell you you’re wrong. You might be wrong. Fi is OFTEN WRONG. It doesn’t think of others first, it places objective facts on the back-burner, and it DESPISES thinking logically for itself to keep itself accountable… Exactly where do you see that Fi is going to be helpful under those conditions? Fi is all about ME. I want, I get what I want, don’t control me, etc… It’s a rebellious child. Work on that Te. If you’re unwilling to think for yourself, then you don’t have much option but to accept what the thinkers are telling you, then. Because you can’t just go around doing ONLY what makes you feel good. You certainly can’t hold OTHERS to your SUBJECTIVE standard of emotion…. “You hurt my feelings, so you’re bad.” No. You got your feelings hurt. That doesn’t make me bad. That makes you selfish. Which is fine - if you’ll admit it, you can do something about it, like listening to those who think. Then if you keep listening to those who think, you’ll get wiser. But you don’t want that because that would not profit you because you won’t get what you want. That’s the reason SO MANY refuse to use Ti. They know it will result in not getting what they want WHEN they want it.
As an INFJ, I totally get it now, you guys just opened my "third eye" to human psychology and now I'm addicted. Thank you! Lol I hate your Te, yet It all makes so much sense, it's like... I understood your system, and I never struggled with the MBTI shallow bs bcz I always saw it deeper and made it fit through my own system... And like, sometimes you guys are so shallow with logic, but so broad, that you guys give me, like, 5 things to think about in the time that I would usually think just one (that Ti-Te dillema), but what you guys give are the best Te picks for me to dive in, so it's extremely helpful, and now what has happened to me?! I don't hate Te 100% anymore... Ohh... You guys really helped me understand my intuition, and thus, my "self" better, cuz now I can communicate that feminine and masculine thing I always felt but lacked a proper, common, tribal way of saying it... Like, human psychology, sexuality, personality... Everything makes so much more sense now, yet it was always inside of me somehow... Woooow, I feel enlightened by your channel, and now I even understand my masc-Fi fem-Te INFP bestfriend better, with my fem-Fe masc-Ti...
I'd love a video on why Fe, esp in infj gets toted on being "most empathetic, most authentic, deepest, never understood but ALWAYS understands others." I am an ISFP, and find I am more like this than the 3 infj I know. Yet the droves of "infj" on social media eat this right up.
INFJs are also some of the most evil types if waking up on the wrong side of humanity... Maybe you being an ISFP means your Fi is more well balanced (since it's a strength and you've spent time working with it) in contrast to an INFJs... because our Fi is way underdeveloped (which means we can appear like a "blank canvas," in a Freudian sense, to allow people to project their values onto us). We appear empathic and authentic but really we are, ahem, neutral on the surface (when we exercise Fi, we mess up big time). The ISFPs (or Fi heavy) people in my family will always prioritize their own needs over others (some without a second thought; a kind of "scoot over" approach) and they call that being authentic... which it is... authentic to "self" over "tribe" (and we love them and accept them regardless) but an INFJ will allow people to work through them, setting aside their own values (really just keeping their values hidden) to allow the other person to project their values on to them... then the INFJ will either "adjust" to accommodate both their own ("secret") values in harmony with the other person or find an exit LOL quietly of course wink wink In both cases this is all unconscious. And this isn't implying that ISFPs do not like to help people or are in no way authentic and incapable of showing empathy but the fact that I am saying this in response to your comment concerning the theme of "identity" illustrates how "identity" and how you feel perceived is challenged by some overemphasized notion that INFJs are "more than". In a way, your concern and what you value (being perceived as also having empathy for others and appearing authentic, which you most certainly may) is already working through an INFJ. Cheers!
@@grumpyschnauzer Stop spreading this MBTI community bullshit of "INFJs are so weird and evil" when you don't even know what an INFJ is and most of the people who type themselves as INFJ are some completely other type
@@TheRealFlenuan EXACTLY! Some INFJs are more NiFe oriented and others are NiTi oriented - INFJs (like me). We are multidimensional! And if we type like that ENTPs have the most psychopaths in history, ESTPs have the most criminal records and just as many ESFPs are psychopaths
I think there is a lot of INFJ women out there on the internet and they cling a lot to the identity you described. I do agree that they don't really feel their own feelings...inside they are a cold fridge of sorts... but externally they do take on the emotions of others like a mirror mask. They also take on group values... so yes from point of view of Fi they aren't authentic. But from the point of view of Ti they are... they do things for their own, sometimes selfish reasons, all the time and keep thst shit secret and to themselves. It makes me laugh when they act like Fe makes them a savior selfless figure...cause they can be plenty selfish with that Ti, never sharing reasons or information when it's important...doing what's best for only themselves etc. I think some idiot once said that infj is the most rarest types and lots of women out there want to be special and unique.
I just love your dialogues...love this format. It's not only entertaining but really gets down to some details/perspectives that people miss for whatever reason in a formal presentation. Just one little funny dialogue near the end helped me see that I'm masculine demon Fe, and a friend is masculine demon Fi....I've been trying to figure that one out for ages! :))
I have to admit that i as a Fi dom wasn’t awer of my emotions and kept repressing them until my mid 20s. Fi is maybe much more based in feelings. Emotion are somehow bodily
Unfortunately there are a few definitions that may apply: 1 - An affect (conscious state of emotion) of the mind without cognition (thought) or volition (the intellectual act of will) 2 - a general state of mind not perceived to created by thoughts, sensation, etc 3 - an empathetic or sympathetic response to to the perceived condition of others (this maybe in the jargon of personality types only Fe, or Fe and Fi might be favoring Empathy and Sympathy respectively) Now in our context of Feeling being a judgement/decider it would be relying on Feeling to determine the values. Some counter arguments: 1 - perhaps Feelings are really just unconscious thinking’s that are made to fulfill a perceived need. 2 - OP may have redefined the term beyond using normal definitions 3 - Carl Jung’s own definitions were slightly different. Fe - honored the needs and preferences of others and when used helped form social security for the user. Fi - defined what was personally important at the expense of social cohesiveness allow for protection identity. To Jung the question was what was most consciously used.
Fe is about feeling more about other people's opinion of you than how you feel about yourself. Fi dominants will cry outwardly behind closed doors or when overly stressed or depressed about how they feel. Fi dominants are almost always sad about something or depressed about something that someone did to him or her. Fe dominants are first to feel about what other people are feeling. They tend to sacrifice a lot like ESFJs sacrifice a lot of themselves for their family and ENFJs sacrifice a lot of themselves for the community like for a community center, an after-school program, a fundraising committee, a homeless shelter, an animal shelter or their church.
Yes but Fe doms get payment of Validation. They feel good about self sacrificing. Te doms (with Fi) get Validation from contructing and building... they feel good when something they made works for people. They will break themselves building that thing for you. I think sometimes Fe doms are blind to how much Te has built for people.
@@grazynawolska8160 what. No. Maybe some. Yes. In a sense - but you building something for someone doesn’t automatically grant you pre-eminence over others. I LOVE to build things - but I don’t need to be patted on the back to see someone else enjoy it. Fi cares way too damn much about itself. Life is about THEM. It’s just stupid, whether Fi is Dom or inferior. Nobody wants what you built if you’re going to make it about you. Only God has that right. You built USING THE THINGS HE MADE. You did nothing original. This “credit” crap is stupid. BUT, I will agree, sometimes the SENSOR/FEELER types will neglect just how much goes into making things and they the jobs they have were BUILT for them, everything they use was BUILT for them, etc…. They really miss the mark on understanding how much value they’re getting from everything and how much of someone else’s sweat made it possible for them to buy all that stuff that is “so expensive”… Agreed on that - SENSOR/FEELER types tend to only ever understand that about their HOBBY items. For necessities or utilities, etc. They are CLUELESS about how much others have to do for them to be cozy. In their mind, it should be cheaper - unless we’re taking up taxes for the transvestites or money-launderers… that’s for a good cause. 🤫🙄
Great video. I actually find the way Shannon explains things easier to understand for myself. I think my INFJ? INTJ?struggle is finally over. Seems like Fem Te, masc Fi Shannon has conveyed my reaction to anything I like or dislike so accurately. I have said as long as I remember "I just this kind of person, if I like something, I LOVE it, if I dislike something, I fucking HATE it". And as my Fi is a demon fuction, I do struggle with expressing myself outside my family, but in my comfort zone? maaan, let me just say this, if I love or hate something, I do not care what other people's feeling are on that subject. That is why I always fight with my Fi Si Ne Te sister
It’s not about showing emotions as much about the objects being the focal point. If your actions are more focused on other’s emotions, that would be Fe. If you don’t have it, it’s hard to explain. Fi is much more impulsive because it’s focused on the individual’s emotions. It’s actually really easy to see Fe vs Fi. We are not the same
I’ve been watching your videos and catching on to some of this info and M&B placed me as INFJ. Since watching I can relate to being an IxxJ (the box) video really resonates with me. Yet I wonder how many of these IxxJ people have had similar pasts in terms of toxic stress/ trauma and how that may play into how someone might live their life which would be JvP. For example: Chronic moving in childhood equates later in life as a barrier to closing a certain chapter, due to losing what is known. Or is it that an IxxJ growing up experiences the chronic moving as something they can’t process well. Is it the personality that shapes reality or is it reality that shapes personality?
Mmm, your example hit home... hard. I had that chronic moving as a child because my father was a paranoid schizophrenic with paranoid delusions so we changed addresses frequently (1-2 years at a time). As I struggle to close a "chapter" on my marriage it is hard... everything attached to that marriage, that life, that future, those memories (good and bad), lifestyle, etc. ends with it... and what I am losing, missing, refusing to let go is what I perceived as known, my known path, disappearing from existence (although the future of that relationship was never in existence). I feel like I am disappearing with it, like a blip in time. You come to resent Ni, you refuse to spark, to imagine a new path/chapter because it's, well first, exhausting, but also you learn that living in Ni-land can be pointless to a certain extent (my Fi/Se sister smacked me with this). Then you have to learn to exercise Se... tap into the value of Fi... find Si... and live for today. Personality is nature and nurture and I don't believe we are born as blank slates so personality is forming in the womb; however, nurture emphasizes (the best and worst) parts of our inherent personality embedding it as we grow older. So I suppose... my stance on your question would be "personality shapes reality". Good comment, btw... I do believe you to be an INFJ.
@@MrISAACFACE their definition of Fe more accurately represents their definition of Fe But seriously they simply picked up a random and horrible Fe definiton just to gloat, while there are much better and much more expanded ones.
Not to be a fanboy of objective personality or anything as i think theres a lot of criticisms that can be made, but of all of the definitions of Fe ive heard, theirs is the most testable/falsifiable.
My father once told that emotions are the best judgement the brain can make by itself. So to me that seems like the brain takes in all external variables and than gives a response to it's user. Which could be described as the te-fi axis since te takes external reasons and fi gives a response base on those external variables. I've seen people describe fi as gut feelingd so that kind of make sense. You brain can't really decide which variable is more improtant for it's reasoning or which aren't important at all, how do these variables connect and does this conncection makes sense, is it concsistant? This to me would be ti. A concious effort to justify your actions by reasons. Since this calculaition is internal and you may or may not have overlooked factors or may have something inconsistent in your reasoning and as you don't consider you own emotions and responses that much you have to look outside to see how the others emotionaly respond or base your own reasoning on their emotional response rather than your own. This is just a theory by me, idk, what are your thoughts?
Can Jung's system be boiled down to a savior function and a demon function? What about the conscious ego's interaction with the shadow functions, or the subconscious functions? Does the conscious ego operate independently from these?
Dave doesn’t care. He is an ESFP. This is a performance. It’s his own subjective system. It doesn’t have to align with anything that he borrowed from. Which is why it is so WRONG that he uses the same cognitive function names. Because he redefines them, and then he types everyone’s SUBCONSCIOUS according to his own standard. And the Fi users will eat this up because it is a kind of hammer and they can start hitting nails. It doesn’t have to actually be true. They probably help people BEHIND THE SCENES when they’re pouring their hearts out; I’M SURE. But they’re typing them all wrong, according to Jungian psychology. If they renamed the functions and made it obvious that they’re devising the system for practicality and not for accuracy (TYPICAL Fi-Te Ni-Se stuff… look at all those types: and by the way, Dave is ESFP, OBVIOUSLY. And Shan strikes me as a true ENTJ, actually… so they got that magically correct, but that’s because she has aspirational Fi - she’s going to have that gut feeling about who she is… whereas Dave claims to be an INTJ which is NiFi - ((an ESFP - Se Fi Te Ni…))) and he doesn’t realize that his forwardness and “alpha” like language is very Se-dom - including his desire for the “theory” to not be theory, but to be COMPLETELY PRACTICAL… And his Fi doesn’t like that he struggles with applying the systems, so he made his own, redefined the terms (clear child Te)… Ti-blindness, which focuses on ACCURACY… Edit to add: you have to hand it out to him for really aspiring that Ni, though. He DID create a system and he applies it. He accomplished a goal.
You really want to feel Fi, Stress yourself. For an ESTJ, Fi is your inferior function. And an ISTJ, it’s your tertiary function, gotta annoy both of you to feel it.
Do i use Fi or Fe? Like i 90% believe i am ESFP. I do care about other people’s opinion but at the same time i wouldn’t trade my authenticity and who i am/my likes and dislikes for pleasing someone. I do sometimes find a hard time saying no to people but i wouldn’t do something i don’t want or don’t like in order to please others(sometimes i do but only if the person means something to me or i have a personal gain if i do what they want.). I am very emotional but often i forget about other people’s Emotions when making a decision and i’ve been described as selfish and self absorbed and irresponsible. My obvious ISFJ mom and my ESFJ best friend often tell me i am a bit of a narcissist. I am not very assertive though at all and try to avoid upsetting other people’s feelings however i won’t say i like something if i don’t yet sometimes i tend to be hesitant about speaking my mind and fear embarassement(i am a very shy version of ESFP though). I usually think more about how will my actions Affect me than others yet if i somehow hurt someone’s feelings while being too self absorbed then I’ll feel bad. Like my mom finds it hard to be selfish and then feels bad because she is not selfish i Find it hard to not be selfish. I admit i don’t really know how to “behave” and act silly many times. I am not that good at expressing emotions and tend to bottle up but it’s more for personal peace and harmony rather than not hurting others. I can’t handle criticism
As someone who had been in this cycle for a really long time, I can finally see myself as being an INFJ with fem Fe and Masc Ti. My Fe is really friendly and very conflict averse, while Ti is like “ffs why do you even care, you won’t see this person again…plus he doesn’t even know what he’s talking about”, which is why I actually resonated with the classical ENTP behavior a lot more than the typical saint-like descriptions of INFJs. But nah, even when I’m dying to express my Ti, my Ni-Fe rushes in to stop me from saying anything that will ruin the mood or even my relationships with people.
When you get a bit older, your TI will win, more often. You will also be able to apply FE standards to a larger concept of harmony, and appreciate that TI non-conformity is a very necessary element to achieve the greatest good, for any society. Most people who claim to understand the greater good, are wolves in sheep’s clothing, exploiting this concept to push sinister agendas, for example, the current U.S. President and his entire administration, but INFJs and INTJs, are far better at assessing the big picture, than the narcissistic poseurs who tend to become politicians to appease their egos. So, I’ve noticed over time, that I become more convicted, more secure in my principles, and am quite the opposite of who I thought I was, as a shy, sweet, people pleasing little girl. I am still sweet, I appreciate the value of harmony, overall, but not at any cost. Good luck, fellow INFJ. You seem like a beautiful soul. Be true to yourself always, never give in to self doubt. You only need to be 51% sure to make a decision, and this is enough. I’ve never screwed up anything in my life, when I was only 51% sure, if you can believe it.
I love your videos but I think that's not the only definition I've seen in the MBTI forums or videos. I always saw that they describe Fe as begin more aware of others feelings and values, that's basically the same as you say. Also Carl Jung said that Fi users don't show their emotions so that definition it's correct.
You both should get library cards and read Gifts Differing by Myers and Psychological Types by Jung. It's a logical fallacy (strawman) to Google random definitions and then feign a critique. Cute couple, though.
@@jakeholland1825 The point is that they conflate bad sources (random internet babble) with original sources (Myers, Jung). He's been saying Jung said the opposite about what he said to inflate his opinion and says the MBTI and its developers do things they don't to give a false critique. This is just a disinformation campaign rather than anything legit.
I'm wondering if it would be possible for you to add your names and brand association to your videos? I like them a lot, but I think DaveSuperPowers is Dave Powers and his wife (?not sure - kind of guessing from videos) Shannon (? not sure - I only hear her name and it's fast) - I've watched a lot of them but even on your website, you don't give your names and there's no org chart or information on who the masthead staff are. Thanks much!
Searching for Masculine Feeling or Feminine Feeling (with the thinking the opposite), I've known instinctively about for a while but haven't been able to articulate. My favorite example is emperor Palpatine, as depicted in the original trilogy: he builds this huge galactic empire (hyper masculine T)...because he has no fwends (hyper feminine F). My masculine F can't take him seriously.
TL;DR- Are capable of criticizing popular misreading of Myers-Briggs without dragging their names through the mud. Please, do better. I, grant you that, your stereotypes are often put out there (especially through the internet) in the popular psychology. I do not agree that in the works of Myers and Briggs the same overgeneralized typology is present. A fair-bit, if not the vast majority of this misreading seems to be from Keirsey laying his theories on Ancient Greek temperaments over the Myers-Briggs’s works and assigning (perhaps forcing) each temperament to four of the types the (and I would argue hastily) creating sub-temperaments for the types. This is not Myres-Briggs, but in popular culture they are conflated because Keirsey. Myers-Briggs Type Indicator is not a test; it is not a “type identifier,” but a “type indicator.” It is intended to get you on base, not to be a home run machine. Now maybe Jung was right and only the dominate function is acting in it attitude; maybe Briggs and Myers were right, and the functions actually alternate; maybe Myers really was on the road identifying addition and informative insight that would have correlated to either the neuroticism of FFM or even your genders and animals, but died before finishing; but Briggs and Myers were insightful, they worked within the contemporary expectations of psychology, and while the culture has shifted to a preference for a more statistical psychological approach, that does not excuse inaccuracy in constructing counter arguments. Briggs and Myers did not assert that it indicated intensity, nor an interpersonal relative proficiency; merely a personal preference for the frequency of use. While you may well be (under the Myers-Briggs theory) more proficient at a any of the functions, the MBTI indicates which functions you likely prefer to use. While it lacks the unethical maliciousness of constructing a straw-man, it would strain credulity to assert you two, as educated in the subject as you are, are unaware that the Pop-Psych version of Myers-Briggs is the same as their works. Pop-Psych personality typing is at least as different from their work as theirs was from, and that perpetuating the false association is beneath you. The original work was not perfect, but it was carefully investigated, it likely lead to progress but it did have a kind of function that was useful often enough to create a sense (likely an intuitive one 😉) that there was some background principle that was valid. If it hadn’t been, I doubt you could justify to yourselves using it as a starting place for your own theories. Edited: For clarity and added paragraphs.
This was a pleasure to read! It takes a duo who aren't sitting in front of the same people routinely providing psychotherapy to miss that there would be layers of a person's personality to sift through to get to the core of who a person is... I mean, defense mechanisms anybody?
2:00 who you ask? INTJ - “Fuck Harmony! I am Right” ISTJ - Harmony is fine if we are right about what we harmonize over, otherwise; Fuck Harmony!” ESTP - “It means I have to do things by your rules and schedule, Fuck Harmony!” ENTP - “ You want harmony? Why is it so important? Is it even good, I think we can think of a lot of reasons why disharmony is it important! In fact, it is the basis of disagreement which leads to all sorts of social, religious and scientific progress! Harmony is the very death of progress. Fuck Harmony!” *listening ISFJ* “Wow, you’re right we don’t need harmony” ENTP again “Hey, we need Harmony, and here’s why...” ENTJ - “Fuck Harmony! I want obedience!” INTP - “I’m sorry what were you saying, that statement someone said ten minutes ago made me realize that rabbit colonies might work for experiments on my theories of human socializations in densely populated areas. You see if we...”
You're somewhat mixing up INTP and INTJ-why would INTP and ENTP be that different? The only difference is one has Ne-Si as its main polar axis and the other has Ti-Fe. MBTI community stereotyping bullshit.
The mbti definitions you showed seemed to me that it should have read more like how Fi or FE accepts or identifies with the way emotions are handled. For example, I relate more to FI, and I when I see others, or worse myself, make emotional decisions it really turns me off. But, yeah, I value harmony, this way I can avoid unnecessary sensory. So I see your point.
So what would Masculine Fi look like? I'm an INFP, but I don't really recognize whether my Fi is Masculine or Feminine...neither sounds like how I am...?
Masculine Fi will outwardly say what he likes don’t like Feminine Fi will inwardly look around and take what she likes and not take what she don’t like
This is off topic from the video but, I think I'm an ENTP and this is supposedly what we do. I went on the MBTI subreddit and I was basically saying that Carl Jung, the guy who's theories this is supposedly based off of said that true introverts and extroverts don't exist and the ones who do are probably in an asylum. Extroversion is a personality trait just like neuroticism is a personality trait. You can have really bad social anxiety which would make you an introvert according to the Myers-Briggs community standards but, you want to spend every waking moment with another person it just terrifies you, so what are you really if not an introvert or an extrovert, an ambivert. Then nearly every person on the planet would be an ambivert, it makes no sense unless introverts and extroverts don't exist. The only people I can think that this would actually apply to would be those in the manic cycle of bipolar disorder and on the flip side those with schizoid personality disorder.
What about E- "How does it relate to all of reality" yet it is irrelevant what the tribe's opinion is about the universal principle? Am I E because I'm about how it relates to all of reality, or I because the tribe/herd isn't how I orient myself?
Expresses their emotions outwardly? More like we have to learn to do this on a deeper level at some point, and more often. Sensitive to criticism? Nope! More like sensitive to other people's emotions and emotional states. As in we can feel their emotions, but we are detached from their feelings simultaneously, so not sensitive at the same time as being sensitive. Different type of sensitivity! Lives according to norms? Maybeish! We know the norms, but don't always live in them if we are being genuine. Norms aren't what most people think they are either. The Little Old Lady Who Lives In a Shoe? That's a nursery rhyme title. What's my bank account number? I'm not telling you that! Especially here, on the internet. Waba-laba ding-dong? How dare you!?!?! 1+3=4? Yep!
1:401:45 so half the population only has Fe, and also even if we ignore this error, theres another question: half? Does that means fi fe (in top 4 functions) are distributed in society exactly in half? You dont even corect her. How does you guys simplification is any better from any other horoscope level simplification of how human works. Can you predict behavior with it? Whats the use of this 8 functions and 16 types tool?
I don't know why but your comment made me laugh so hard... "An ENTJ can spot another across a small city" Do you run from each other or keep your distance? My older sister is an ENTJ and she can be quite the character to stomach if people don't find her antics comical. She doesn't appreciate when I try to psychoanalyze her but can anyone blame me? She's an anomaly of scary and thrilling at the same time.
Heyyy have you heard about the bloodtypes? We alllll have one. We alllllllll have one of four. And it can tell you soooooooooooo much about your personality (according to this one guy from Japan a while ago)
I don't think there is anything wrong with MBTI or the questions it asks. It's a unique system of its own. It doesn't perceive people to be one or the other but instead a "default" form of being. If a person has/shows Fi strongly, that is where their personality naturally feels most comfortable leading with (nature AND nurture). MBTI does not intend to be one or the other but will likely highlight where one's strengths and weaknesses exist. Hence, a person leads with Fi over Fe but still has the capacity to contain both. I mean... isn't that what your system does too?
Pretty sure my Te and Ni are masculine and my Se and Fi are feminine. Even when i use those functions they're very teehee and like 🤗 but the masculine ones are like 💪 mwaahahaha my masterplan is moving along
There is something with Thinking and Feeling that every system is missing out on until now, including OP in its current form. I do not know what it is yet, but I will find out in the next five years. That might just be my Ni peacocking here, BUT I WILL FIND OUT WHAT IS MISSING!
“How is it that if you’re laughing and laughing with someone else, you’re not seeking validation?” That’s such a great point. People say that Jimmy Fallon must be an Fe dom because he laughs so much but I find that to be a really shallow reason
Dave loves talking shit about MB. Ni is about context, right? I'm surprised that he doesn't speak about them in the context of when they lived and the reason they created the MBTI. 1940s, wasn't it? Pretty advanced I'd say for the 40s. But, I guess they're sowing the seeds for people to talk shit about their instrument when we're in the 2090s. Boom! (Please someone read my comment, please!! My Fi needs your validation)
The terms "introvert" and "extrovert" should be defined using the Jungian definitions. You know, seeing as how he, himself, coined those terms. Big Five's nomenclature defines "introvert" and "extrovert" according to pop culture definitions.
“You like history- Si!” 🤣
Si senióra
😅😆🤣🤣
😅😆🤣🤣
STOLE MY WORDS LAUGHING HARD
You guys never cease to confuse me
Yo deadass
It gets better over time. Dont know how. Must be their consistent method of examination.
Study MBTi for at least several years intensely and you will finally not be confused. Beware of all MBTI stereotypes and over simplification. Study, study, study.
@@sirmadam8183 Do you know how I can study better? What resources can I use, read, or reference, and how to practice? Thank you
@@GraceMaplegem Are you taking about OPS and Jungian types?
Jung specifically said that Fi tends not to show emotion. He said, "Still waters run deep." And when it does show emotion, it does so in a childish manner.
I like this
@Miss reign fe inferior u stupid
Wtf
@Miss reign INTPs show emotion pretty vividly what are you talking about?
@Miss reign INTPs show emotion in a childish manner (mostly I see this with anger and frustration)... when they do and you can catch it... psst... have them watch a sad movie where a dog dies and get ready with your camera
i swear the dynamic between you two is just beautiful 😍 so charming and funny, i come back every time! 🤣
Me too
It's pretty fascinating to watch how she's total series and have absolute no emotion on her face for one second and she's laughing like a baby the next second. I always get distracted watching this and have to go back to listen to what they were saying
I think that, in many ways, Fe is a rational function. Heavy Fe users easily internalize the spoken and unspoken customs/social norms of a given group. They can tell you if a certain course of action could cost you your job, social standing, money, or even your life.
Secondarily, Fe users enjoy pleasant chit chat with other humans wherin we exchange potentially useful information or find new members for our social network who may be useful in the future.
Its not simply an outlet for expressing emotions.
@@grrrlrock Hey, thanks. Glad you enjoyed it 😀
@@stevedavenport1202 I think the best way to explain this to people is to take the 4 functions that we understand with traditional connotations of what they mean (Ne, Fi, Ti, Se) and build up their opposing functions as their complements. In this case, how we traditionally conceive of feeling and thinking is as something unique to us individually. So, their complements can be defined by what each do not do for ourselves. Using feeling to decide values for ourselves is in contrast to using thinking to discern reasons from others (Te). Similarly, using thinking to decide reasons for ourselves is in contrast to using feeling to discern values from others (Fe).
First one is Ne-Si.
Second one is Te.
@@TheLucidDreamer12 you’re sucked in. Te isn’t reasons from others. That’s Fe.
Te is how things work.
Ti is defining things, logic.
Fe is others’ values and reasons. Not all reasons are reasonable. Not all knowledge is correct. That’s why it’s NOT OBJECTIVE Te. Te is ACTUALLY objective. It is fallible, but it isn’t stupid. If you put a Te-Dom in a world full of people who get nothing right, the Te-dom isn’t just going to buy everyone else’s B.S.
They DO NOT BECOME GENERALS THAT WAY.
Te strategizes. It says, “If I do this, that will happen. If I do that, then that will happen.”
And it tells others, “If you do that, then THAT will happen.” It is LOGIC.
It is extraverted because it deals with the object.
Introverted Thinking deals with the subject. That means it’s defining things. This IS that. That IS this. So, IF this IS that, then THAT is also THIS.
Logic.
But it needs information to sort…
So, that is why you need to take in through senses (Se), refer to your memory (Si), pay attention to LIKENESSES (Ne; where things ARE events and are like SYNONYMS of each other, instead of paying attention to the DISTINCTNESS of a thing…) or pay attention to WHAT COULD or SHOULD happen (Ni - in this SPECIFIC scenario).
Why do you think Ni-Te is such a mastermind?
Because Ni tells the INTJ the ONE LIKELY IMAGE of what the end result could or should be - and then Te reinforces that image by KNOWING HOW THE THINGS WORK and so is able to build or project a REALISTIC thing or event (such as knowing how the chess pieces move, knowing the current position on the board, and forecasting the likely END and therefore arranging the order of events logically to PRODUCE that outcome).
Yeah…
Lots of fakeness in this OPS stuff. I wish I had never seen it or taken it seriously. It’s affected my ability to reason by having their information in my head.
You guys are just trying to confuse us so we have to take your course! 😄😄😄
You’ve almost got me.
Love watching you two.
It’s worth it. I’m biased, but it’s still worth trying one month ;)
What cource?
Their course
Agree!!! [click bait]
Seriously what's so confusing? They're just talking about basic MBTI stuff and redefining them.
YES!!!! I am ENFJ and my ESFJ friend and I were discussing how we feel uncomfortable displaying our emotions. It makes us feel like we lack control of ourselves. We do however care intensely about what makes everyone around us "happy". On a side note, neither of us are big huggers.
Wow that kinda sounds like me
I'm an INFJ and that sounds just like me.
After years of trying to figure it out, I finally came to the realization that Fe is social thinking. Feelings are feelings and thoughts are thoughts, and everyone has feelings and everyone has thoughts. There are no people who have no feelings and no thoughts. But not everyone is good at social thinking. And Fi is not just personal feelings...it is actually an observational frame of mind that comes out from the self...emotional and self-awareness are simply going along with that. (The T/F dichotomy probably has to die and be replaced simply by an objective/subjective dichotomy.) I struggled for years trying to decide if I were an INFP or an INTP and I realized...can I not have traits of both? Then I found out that I am actually on the autism spectrum. So if I am on the spectrum, does that mean that I don't have feelings? Or if I type as an INFP, does that mean that I can't be autistic? People are far too complex to be squeezed into these odd binary classification systems. I have many thoughts and I have many feelings, and I don't need a classification system to either verify that fact or invalidate it. However I am still terrible at social thinking.
I have been very hesitant to believe I am an INFJ, because that's everyone...and I usually type as INFP. But I am without a doubt masculine Fe, and have learned to develop my Ti. I'm bad at taking in new info, I hate it, but have also learned to do it when I need it. You have THE BEST descriptions of the functions I've ever heard, and I feel like I finally understand! If I were going off behavior based descriptions, I would forever be confused about my type. Thank you!
how do you define "bad at taking in new info" lmao because same but ?
You'd have to ask others... You can't perceive yourself.
Or record yourself talking for an hour and see what comes up...
Are you talking about people and your relationships with them or about projects and ideas?
Are you talking about real things that actually happened or are you off into space without any tangible topic?
Do you find it easy to talk for an hour, an hour and a half or was it difficult to keep talking? Etc
The feeling function is not synonymous with emotions.
Every time they flip the bird an angel gets its wings.
I realized Fe-Ti & Fi-Te are dynamics.
Somehow I think Ti prioritizes security/safety, being obsessed with accuracy & truth as to be effective, then going to check on what the tribe wants (and which of those desires may bring us closer to security or farther from it.)
On the otherhand, Fi prioritizes satisfaction, obsessing over the fulillment of desires, outsourcing the logical capacity of the tribe (Te) in order to get what it wants.
But then the nuances of such a dynamic, especially habitual dependence of the extroverted saviors towards tribe validation has a tendency to dilute the introverted deciders.
Thus the ExTJ's are IxFP's who got lost in the excessive exposure to the logic of others (where most if not all are fallacy-rich sources) as they try to figure out how to get what it wants.
In contrast, ExFJ's are IxTP's who gave up effeciency & accuracy in favor of finding security in the tribe's acceptance, or rather, figured out that the tribe can do a better job in ensuring personal safety.
This is an underrated comment. Spot on.
Jung literally said that Fi people don't show emotions.
"It is principally among women that I have found the priority of introverted feeling. The proverb 'Still waters run deep' is very true of such women. They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and not infrequently their temperament is melancholic. They neither shine nor reveal themselves."
I have Fi im isfp and i show my emotions like they are on my sleeves
Drew
@@charlee2470 then you are NOT ISFP.
I know TWO ISFPs very personally, an INFP, and an ENFP. They DO NOT wear their emotions on their sleeves. They FINALLY express them under DURESS. And God help everyone when they do!!
Jung is the man who NAMED THE FUNCTIONS we are discussing!!!!
If you’re not talking about his definitions, we’re not talking about the same things!
Yes, Drew. They type the SUBCONSCIOUS. They type upside down… ironically. And worse, they don’t get what the functions do, so they type upside down AND sideways. Lol.
You guys still didn't show us the difference between Fe and Fi
They already have a video that does that
Fi - prioritizes self values
Fe - prioritizes tribe values
@@SaphiraTheMongoose What's the name of that video?
yassss this is so true. i hate the stereotypes. im an ENFP and people always say, “oh you have high Fi, you are way more aware of your emotions than i am” and im like.... YO! Stop right there, that is not what Fi does!!!!
Lol spoken like a true Fi user. Telling people "thats not Fi" and failing to say what Fi actually is or does:)
or worse they try and call you a unicorn or some stupid pet name. Ugh, triggers the hell out of me
Dawn Hodges, remember OG theory you use the opposite attitudes of the functions but much more subconsciously, and they are in the same order.
Michelle Wilson, actually that sounds closer to an Si to me, unless by “understand all the pieces” you mean “they need reasons works it,” and not that “they need to know the data”
Isfp here I hear too much bullshit stereotyping abut Fi 🙄
The part about feminine and masculine feeling just made me realize why there is such a big difference between my flatmate (ESFP) and me (ENFP) despite both being Fi/Te.
The only reason why Fi tends to conceal emotions is that the outside force would say that your subjective moral you value is wrong. It hurts us that way.
So true
Then let people tell you you’re wrong.
You might be wrong.
Fi is OFTEN WRONG.
It doesn’t think of others first, it places objective facts on the back-burner, and it DESPISES thinking logically for itself to keep itself accountable…
Exactly where do you see that Fi is going to be helpful under those conditions?
Fi is all about ME. I want, I get what I want, don’t control me, etc…
It’s a rebellious child.
Work on that Te. If you’re unwilling to think for yourself, then you don’t have much option but to accept what the thinkers are telling you, then.
Because you can’t just go around doing ONLY what makes you feel good. You certainly can’t hold OTHERS to your SUBJECTIVE standard of emotion…. “You hurt my feelings, so you’re bad.”
No.
You got your feelings hurt. That doesn’t make me bad. That makes you selfish. Which is fine - if you’ll admit it, you can do something about it, like listening to those who think. Then if you keep listening to those who think, you’ll get wiser.
But you don’t want that because that would not profit you because you won’t get what you want.
That’s the reason SO MANY refuse to use Ti. They know it will result in not getting what they want WHEN they want it.
Loving these videos of the two of you presenting the material together!
Laura me too! Like the dynamic a lot :)
I love coming home to your videos!
i’m left with more questions than answers
As an INFJ, I totally get it now, you guys just opened my "third eye" to human psychology and now I'm addicted. Thank you! Lol
I hate your Te, yet It all makes so much sense, it's like... I understood your system, and I never struggled with the MBTI shallow bs bcz I always saw it deeper and made it fit through my own system... And like, sometimes you guys are so shallow with logic, but so broad, that you guys give me, like, 5 things to think about in the time that I would usually think just one (that Ti-Te dillema), but what you guys give are the best Te picks for me to dive in, so it's extremely helpful, and now what has happened to me?! I don't hate Te 100% anymore... Ohh... You guys really helped me understand my intuition, and thus, my "self" better, cuz now I can communicate that feminine and masculine thing I always felt but lacked a proper, common, tribal way of saying it... Like, human psychology, sexuality, personality... Everything makes so much more sense now, yet it was always inside of me somehow... Woooow, I feel enlightened by your channel, and now I even understand my masc-Fi fem-Te INFP bestfriend better, with my fem-Fe masc-Ti...
I'd love a video on why Fe, esp in infj gets toted on being "most empathetic, most authentic, deepest, never understood but ALWAYS understands others." I am an ISFP, and find I am more like this than the 3 infj I know. Yet the droves of "infj" on social media eat this right up.
INFJs are also some of the most evil types if waking up on the wrong side of humanity... Maybe you being an ISFP means your Fi is more well balanced (since it's a strength and you've spent time working with it) in contrast to an INFJs... because our Fi is way underdeveloped (which means we can appear like a "blank canvas," in a Freudian sense, to allow people to project their values onto us). We appear empathic and authentic but really we are, ahem, neutral on the surface (when we exercise Fi, we mess up big time). The ISFPs (or Fi heavy) people in my family will always prioritize their own needs over others (some without a second thought; a kind of "scoot over" approach) and they call that being authentic... which it is... authentic to "self" over "tribe" (and we love them and accept them regardless) but an INFJ will allow people to work through them, setting aside their own values (really just keeping their values hidden) to allow the other person to project their values on to them... then the INFJ will either "adjust" to accommodate both their own ("secret") values in harmony with the other person or find an exit LOL quietly of course wink wink In both cases this is all unconscious. And this isn't implying that ISFPs do not like to help people or are in no way authentic and incapable of showing empathy but the fact that I am saying this in response to your comment concerning the theme of "identity" illustrates how "identity" and how you feel perceived is challenged by some overemphasized notion that INFJs are "more than". In a way, your concern and what you value (being perceived as also having empathy for others and appearing authentic, which you most certainly may) is already working through an INFJ. Cheers!
@@grumpyschnauzer Stop spreading this MBTI community bullshit of "INFJs are so weird and evil" when you don't even know what an INFJ is and most of the people who type themselves as INFJ are some completely other type
@@TheRealFlenuan EXACTLY! Some INFJs are more NiFe oriented and others are NiTi oriented - INFJs (like me). We are multidimensional! And if we type like that ENTPs have the most psychopaths in history, ESTPs have the most criminal records and just as many ESFPs are psychopaths
Drones?
I think there is a lot of INFJ women out there on the internet and they cling a lot to the identity you described. I do agree that they don't really feel their own feelings...inside they are a cold fridge of sorts... but externally they do take on the emotions of others like a mirror mask. They also take on group values... so yes from point of view of Fi they aren't authentic. But from the point of view of Ti they are... they do things for their own, sometimes selfish reasons, all the time and keep thst shit secret and to themselves. It makes me laugh when they act like Fe makes them a savior selfless figure...cause they can be plenty selfish with that Ti, never sharing reasons or information when it's important...doing what's best for only themselves etc. I think some idiot once said that infj is the most rarest types and lots of women out there want to be special and unique.
I just love your dialogues...love this format. It's not only entertaining but really gets down to some details/perspectives that people miss for whatever reason in a formal presentation. Just one little funny dialogue near the end helped me see that I'm masculine demon Fe, and a friend is masculine demon Fi....I've been trying to figure that one out for ages! :))
I have to admit that i as a Fi dom wasn’t awer of my emotions and kept repressing them until my mid 20s. Fi is maybe much more based in feelings. Emotion are somehow bodily
That’s not Fi-Dom. That’s definitely Fi inferior or Fi shadow.
@@TarzanHedgepeth you're right, meanwile i was typed NeFi:)
You guys are the coolest - so much fun
They came out locked and loaded on this one! 😂very strategic
Right? Dave is a really talented ESFP.
What are feelings?
An expression of consiousness, and we have no freakin idea what consiousness is.
Insightfull question, my friend, I wonder the same....
According to OP, Feeling = Values
Unfortunately there are a few definitions that may apply:
1 - An affect (conscious state of emotion) of the mind without cognition (thought) or volition (the intellectual act of will)
2 - a general state of mind not perceived to created by thoughts, sensation, etc
3 - an empathetic or sympathetic response to to the perceived condition of others (this maybe in the jargon of personality types only Fe, or Fe and Fi might be favoring Empathy and Sympathy respectively)
Now in our context of Feeling being a judgement/decider it would be relying on Feeling to determine the values.
Some counter arguments:
1 - perhaps Feelings are really just unconscious thinking’s that are made to fulfill a perceived need.
2 - OP may have redefined the term beyond using normal definitions
3 - Carl Jung’s own definitions were slightly different. Fe - honored the needs and preferences of others and when used helped form social security for the user. Fi - defined what was personally important at the expense of social cohesiveness allow for protection identity. To Jung the question was what was most consciously used.
😂😂😂😂😂🤖🤖🤖🤖
Fe is about feeling more about other people's opinion of you than how you feel about yourself. Fi dominants will cry outwardly behind closed doors or when overly stressed or depressed about how they feel. Fi dominants are almost always sad about something or depressed about something that someone did to him or her. Fe dominants are first to feel about what other people are feeling. They tend to sacrifice a lot like ESFJs sacrifice a lot of themselves for their family and ENFJs sacrifice a lot of themselves for the community like for a community center, an after-school program, a fundraising committee, a homeless shelter, an animal shelter or their church.
Yes but Fe doms get payment of Validation. They feel good about self sacrificing. Te doms (with Fi) get Validation from contructing and building... they feel good when something they made works for people. They will break themselves building that thing for you. I think sometimes Fe doms are blind to how much Te has built for people.
@@grazynawolska8160 what. No. Maybe some. Yes. In a sense - but you building something for someone doesn’t automatically grant you pre-eminence over others. I LOVE to build things - but I don’t need to be patted on the back to see someone else enjoy it.
Fi cares way too damn much about itself. Life is about THEM. It’s just stupid, whether Fi is Dom or inferior.
Nobody wants what you built if you’re going to make it about you. Only God has that right. You built USING THE THINGS HE MADE. You did nothing original.
This “credit” crap is stupid.
BUT, I will agree, sometimes the SENSOR/FEELER types will neglect just how much goes into making things and they the jobs they have were BUILT for them, everything they use was BUILT for them, etc…. They really miss the mark on understanding how much value they’re getting from everything and how much of someone else’s sweat made it possible for them to buy all that stuff that is “so expensive”…
Agreed on that - SENSOR/FEELER types tend to only ever understand that about their HOBBY items. For necessities or utilities, etc. They are CLUELESS about how much others have to do for them to be cozy. In their mind, it should be cheaper - unless we’re taking up taxes for the transvestites or money-launderers… that’s for a good cause. 🤫🙄
Great video. I actually find the way Shannon explains things easier to understand for myself. I think my INFJ? INTJ?struggle is finally over.
Seems like Fem Te, masc Fi
Shannon has conveyed my reaction to anything I like or dislike so accurately. I have said as long as I remember "I just this kind of person, if I like something, I LOVE it, if I dislike something, I fucking HATE it". And as my Fi is a demon fuction, I do struggle with expressing myself outside my family, but in my comfort zone? maaan, let me just say this, if I love or hate something, I do not care what other people's feeling are on that subject.
That is why I always fight with my Fi Si Ne Te sister
i appreciate your channel so much
It’s not about showing emotions as much about the objects being the focal point. If your actions are more focused on other’s emotions, that would be Fe. If you don’t have it, it’s hard to explain. Fi is much more impulsive because it’s focused on the individual’s emotions. It’s actually really easy to see Fe vs Fi. We are not the same
Amen!!
How funny that you’re bashing a definition on Fe that you have used yourselves in your older videos. Why not point that out as you’re explaining it...
Right? I mean they clearly don’t understand the MBTI if they’re talking this way about it.
@@niinjaslayer6394 I think what their trying to say is MBTI stereotypes people.
@@dbnd2240 It’s not a stereotype of it’s true. Yes, it’s a category. Intuitives are always organizing ideas in some way or another.
@@niinjaslayer6394 he’s talking about (and making fun of) MBTI forums and other internet communities that stereotype people, which they do.
@@dbnd2240 Yeah, I get that. I’m just saying he’s wrong.
This confused me.
even more... the way they speak isn't clear at all its like all mashed together and with sarcasm i don't know what's real or not
I am also NT and I get everything so clearly. Guys may be a bit abstract in connecting dots for other cognitive funcion:)
@@BikesNight haha me too INTX
I was confused at first. Then I watched more of their videos and caught on to their delivery style and content
What’s your point again?’😳😳
I also need to add that, you really seem experienced in this. You know more than just theory, you know thw facts
Way to go
Can't say how much I love the humor
I’ve been watching your videos and catching on to some of this info and M&B placed me as INFJ. Since watching I can relate to being an IxxJ (the box) video really resonates with me. Yet I wonder how many of these IxxJ people have had similar pasts in terms of toxic stress/ trauma and how that may play into how someone might live their life which would be JvP.
For example: Chronic moving in childhood equates later in life as a barrier to closing a certain chapter, due to losing what is known. Or is it that an IxxJ growing up experiences the chronic moving as something they can’t process well.
Is it the personality that shapes reality or is it reality that shapes personality?
Mmm, your example hit home... hard. I had that chronic moving as a child because my father was a paranoid schizophrenic with paranoid delusions so we changed addresses frequently (1-2 years at a time).
As I struggle to close a "chapter" on my marriage it is hard... everything attached to that marriage, that life, that future, those memories (good and bad), lifestyle, etc. ends with it... and what I am losing, missing, refusing to let go is what I perceived as known, my known path, disappearing from existence (although the future of that relationship was never in existence). I feel like I am disappearing with it, like a blip in time. You come to resent Ni, you refuse to spark, to imagine a new path/chapter because it's, well first, exhausting, but also you learn that living in Ni-land can be pointless to a certain extent (my Fi/Se sister smacked me with this). Then you have to learn to exercise Se... tap into the value of Fi... find Si... and live for today.
Personality is nature and nurture and I don't believe we are born as blank slates so personality is forming in the womb; however, nurture emphasizes (the best and worst) parts of our inherent personality embedding it as we grow older. So I suppose... my stance on your question would be "personality shapes reality".
Good comment, btw... I do believe you to be an INFJ.
@@grumpyschnauzer Grumpy, I hope you’re doing okay.
I love you guys and how I have an MBTI existential crises every new video! AHHHHHHH!
-INFP(?)
Same
How is your definition for Fe/Fi any better than the “MBTI” one you criticize when it’s even more vague and general?
Its more accurate?
@@gregsander8439 accurate based on what
@@MrISAACFACE their definition of Fe more accurately represents their definition of Fe
But seriously they simply picked up a random and horrible Fe definiton just to gloat, while there are much better and much more expanded ones.
Not to be a fanboy of objective personality or anything as i think theres a lot of criticisms that can be made, but of all of the definitions of Fe ive heard, theirs is the most testable/falsifiable.
@@MrISAACFACE it's pretty much as bad as any other simplified definition. Try asking INTP if they care about TRIBE VALUES :)
My father once told that emotions are the best judgement the brain can make by itself. So to me that seems like the brain takes in all external variables and than gives a response to it's user. Which could be described as the te-fi axis since te takes external reasons and fi gives a response base on those external variables. I've seen people describe fi as gut feelingd so that kind of make sense. You brain can't really decide which variable is more improtant for it's reasoning or which aren't important at all, how do these variables connect and does this conncection makes sense, is it concsistant? This to me would be ti. A concious effort to justify your actions by reasons. Since this calculaition is internal and you may or may not have overlooked factors or may have something inconsistent in your reasoning and as you don't consider you own emotions and responses that much you have to look outside to see how the others emotionaly respond or base your own reasoning on their emotional response rather than your own. This is just a theory by me, idk, what are your thoughts?
Can Jung's system be boiled down to a savior function and a demon function? What about the conscious ego's interaction with the shadow functions, or the subconscious functions? Does the conscious ego operate independently from these?
Dave doesn’t care. He is an ESFP. This is a performance.
It’s his own subjective system. It doesn’t have to align with anything that he borrowed from.
Which is why it is so WRONG that he uses the same cognitive function names.
Because he redefines them, and then he types everyone’s SUBCONSCIOUS according to his own standard.
And the Fi users will eat this up because it is a kind of hammer and they can start hitting nails.
It doesn’t have to actually be true.
They probably help people BEHIND THE SCENES when they’re pouring their hearts out; I’M SURE.
But they’re typing them all wrong, according to Jungian psychology.
If they renamed the functions and made it obvious that they’re devising the system for practicality and not for accuracy (TYPICAL Fi-Te Ni-Se stuff… look at all those types: and by the way, Dave is ESFP, OBVIOUSLY. And Shan strikes me as a true ENTJ, actually… so they got that magically correct, but that’s because she has aspirational Fi - she’s going to have that gut feeling about who she is… whereas Dave claims to be an INTJ which is NiFi - ((an ESFP - Se Fi Te Ni…))) and he doesn’t realize that his forwardness and “alpha” like language is very Se-dom - including his desire for the “theory” to not be theory, but to be COMPLETELY PRACTICAL…
And his Fi doesn’t like that he struggles with applying the systems, so he made his own, redefined the terms (clear child Te)… Ti-blindness, which focuses on ACCURACY…
Edit to add: you have to hand it out to him for really aspiring that Ni, though. He DID create a system and he applies it. He accomplished a goal.
You really want to feel Fi, Stress yourself. For an ESTJ, Fi is your inferior function. And an ISTJ, it’s your tertiary function, gotta annoy both of you to feel it.
Do i use Fi or Fe? Like i 90% believe i am ESFP. I do care about other people’s opinion but at the same time i wouldn’t trade my authenticity and who i am/my likes and dislikes for pleasing someone. I do sometimes find a hard time saying no to people but i wouldn’t do something i don’t want or don’t like in order to please others(sometimes i do but only if the person means something to me or i have a personal gain if i do what they want.). I am very emotional but often i forget about other people’s Emotions when making a decision and i’ve been described as selfish and self absorbed and irresponsible. My obvious ISFJ mom and my ESFJ best friend often tell me i am a bit of a narcissist. I am not very assertive though at all and try to avoid upsetting other people’s feelings however i won’t say i like something if i don’t yet sometimes i tend to be hesitant about speaking my mind and fear embarassement(i am a very shy version of ESFP though). I usually think more about how will my actions Affect me than others yet if i somehow hurt someone’s feelings while being too self absorbed then I’ll feel bad. Like my mom finds it hard to be selfish and then feels bad because she is not selfish i Find it hard to not be selfish. I admit i don’t really know how to “behave” and act silly many times. I am not that good at expressing emotions and tend to bottle up but it’s more for personal peace and harmony rather than not hurting others. I can’t handle criticism
It finally made sense! this was exactly what I was looking for.
Everyone uses all 8 functions so yes everyone uses Fe and Fi.
Anyone can do Fe and Fi, but only one of them will meet their human needs
As someone who had been in this cycle for a really long time, I can finally see myself as being an INFJ with fem Fe and Masc Ti. My Fe is really friendly and very conflict averse, while Ti is like “ffs why do you even care, you won’t see this person again…plus he doesn’t even know what he’s talking about”, which is why I actually resonated with the classical ENTP behavior a lot more than the typical saint-like descriptions of INFJs. But nah, even when I’m dying to express my Ti, my Ni-Fe rushes in to stop me from saying anything that will ruin the mood or even my relationships with people.
When you get a bit older, your TI will win, more often. You will also be able to apply FE standards to a larger concept of harmony, and appreciate that TI non-conformity is a very necessary element to achieve the greatest good, for any society. Most people who claim to understand the greater good, are wolves in sheep’s clothing, exploiting this concept to push sinister agendas, for example, the current U.S. President and his entire administration, but INFJs and INTJs, are far better at assessing the big picture, than the narcissistic poseurs who tend to become politicians to appease their egos. So, I’ve noticed over time, that I become more convicted, more secure in my principles, and am quite the opposite of who I thought I was, as a shy, sweet, people pleasing little girl. I am still sweet, I appreciate the value of harmony, overall, but not at any cost. Good luck, fellow INFJ. You seem like a beautiful soul. Be true to yourself always, never give in to self doubt. You only need to be 51% sure to make a decision, and this is enough. I’ve never screwed up anything in my life, when I was only 51% sure, if you can believe it.
I love you two!
I love how honest these people are even though this is confusing as fuck.
I love your videos but I think that's not the only definition I've seen in the MBTI forums or videos. I always saw that they describe Fe as begin more aware of others feelings and values, that's basically the same as you say. Also Carl Jung said that Fi users don't show their emotions so that definition it's correct.
You both should get library cards and read Gifts Differing by Myers and Psychological Types by Jung. It's a logical fallacy (strawman) to Google random definitions and then feign a critique. Cute couple, though.
The point is that misconceptions are spread in forums because of these random Google definitions. Not many forum posters have read Jung.
@@jakeholland1825 The point is that they conflate bad sources (random internet babble) with original sources (Myers, Jung). He's been saying Jung said the opposite about what he said to inflate his opinion and says the MBTI and its developers do things they don't to give a false critique. This is just a disinformation campaign rather than anything legit.
Lmao I nearly spat my coffee out haha excellent.
This time hers is bigger than his.
I'm just gonna breathe through these.
It's gonna be okay.
I'm wondering if it would be possible for you to add your names and brand association to your videos? I like them a lot, but I think DaveSuperPowers is Dave Powers and his wife (?not sure - kind of guessing from videos) Shannon (? not sure - I only hear her name and it's fast) - I've watched a lot of them but even on your website, you don't give your names and there's no org chart or information on who the masthead staff are. Thanks much!
Searching for Masculine Feeling or Feminine Feeling (with the thinking the opposite), I've known instinctively about for a while but haven't been able to articulate. My favorite example is emperor Palpatine, as depicted in the original trilogy: he builds this huge galactic empire (hyper masculine T)...because he has no fwends (hyper feminine F). My masculine F can't take him seriously.
Masculine feeling IS Fe.
What do you think julius caesars type is?
Brilliant Video.
Keep em coming!!! :*
How do you not have Se if you can jump over a fence
I love you guys!
The typology community on reddit could not be worse. They haven't even gotten to the stereotype level, my God...
Nice to get some common sense.
so MB describes the typical actions of each function, and ops describes how each function prioritize different values
TL;DR- Are capable of criticizing popular misreading of Myers-Briggs without dragging their names through the mud. Please, do better.
I, grant you that, your stereotypes are often put out there (especially through the internet) in the popular psychology. I do not agree that in the works of Myers and Briggs the same overgeneralized typology is present. A fair-bit, if not the vast majority of this misreading seems to be from Keirsey laying his theories on Ancient Greek temperaments over the Myers-Briggs’s works and assigning (perhaps forcing) each temperament to four of the types the (and I would argue hastily) creating sub-temperaments for the types. This is not Myres-Briggs, but in popular culture they are conflated because Keirsey.
Myers-Briggs Type Indicator is not a test; it is not a “type identifier,” but a “type indicator.” It is intended to get you on base, not to be a home run machine. Now maybe Jung was right and only the dominate function is acting in it attitude; maybe Briggs and Myers were right, and the functions actually alternate; maybe Myers really was on the road identifying addition and informative insight that would have correlated to either the neuroticism of FFM or even your genders and animals, but died before finishing; but Briggs and Myers were insightful, they worked within the contemporary expectations of psychology, and while the culture has shifted to a preference for a more statistical psychological approach, that does not excuse inaccuracy in constructing counter arguments. Briggs and Myers did not assert that it indicated intensity, nor an interpersonal relative proficiency; merely a personal preference for the frequency of use. While you may well be (under the Myers-Briggs theory) more proficient at a any of the functions, the MBTI indicates which functions you likely prefer to use.
While it lacks the unethical maliciousness of constructing a straw-man, it would strain credulity to assert you two, as educated in the subject as you are, are unaware that the Pop-Psych version of Myers-Briggs is the same as their works. Pop-Psych personality typing is at least as different from their work as theirs was from, and that perpetuating the false association is beneath you. The original work was not perfect, but it was carefully investigated, it likely lead to progress but it did have a kind of function that was useful often enough to create a sense (likely an intuitive one 😉) that there was some background principle that was valid. If it hadn’t been, I doubt you could justify to yourselves using it as a starting place for your own theories.
Edited: For clarity and added paragraphs.
This was a pleasure to read! It takes a duo who aren't sitting in front of the same people routinely providing psychotherapy to miss that there would be layers of a person's personality to sift through to get to the core of who a person is... I mean, defense mechanisms anybody?
2:00 who you ask?
INTJ - “Fuck Harmony! I am Right”
ISTJ - Harmony is fine if we are right about what we harmonize over, otherwise; Fuck Harmony!”
ESTP - “It means I have to do things by your rules and schedule, Fuck Harmony!”
ENTP - “ You want harmony? Why is it so important? Is it even good, I think we can think of a lot of reasons why disharmony is it important! In fact, it is the basis of disagreement which leads to all sorts of social, religious and scientific progress! Harmony is the very death of progress. Fuck Harmony!”
*listening ISFJ* “Wow, you’re right we don’t need harmony”
ENTP again “Hey, we need Harmony, and here’s why...”
ENTJ - “Fuck Harmony! I want obedience!”
INTP - “I’m sorry what were you saying, that statement someone said ten minutes ago made me realize that rabbit colonies might work for experiments on my theories of human socializations in densely populated areas. You see if we...”
I wanna go to that Japanese rabbit island and hug all the bunnies! >W<
~INTJ (probably stuck in uh Ni-Fi loop a go go)
You're somewhat mixing up INTP and INTJ-why would INTP and ENTP be that different? The only difference is one has Ne-Si as its main polar axis and the other has Ti-Fe. MBTI community stereotyping bullshit.
Also thinking all the ExxJs are just obedience-obsessed and see themselves as leaders LOL
Completely wrong
INFP: "I only do this for myself.... KONO BAKA !!!!"
So would an INTP with savior Si be more concious of norms and customs? Perhaps if they're in that Fe rut, as well?
I've been looking for that aha for 15 years. Over analyzing to the point of obsession. Always always typed at infj. Always disbelieving.
YES, the damn STEREOTYPES!!! oh lort lol. Ppl need to seriously stop. Thanks so much for this
I am definitely masculine F lol, Fi to be exact
It seems like you guys value the human needs alot
The mbti definitions you showed seemed to me that it should have read more like how Fi or FE accepts or identifies with the way emotions are handled. For example, I relate more to FI, and I when I see others, or worse myself, make emotional decisions it really turns me off. But, yeah, I value harmony, this way I can avoid unnecessary sensory. So I see your point.
Shannon is higher than a kite smoking a joint
Values vs Reasons?
So what would Masculine Fi look like? I'm an INFP, but I don't really recognize whether my Fi is Masculine or Feminine...neither sounds like how I am...?
Masculine Fi will outwardly say what he likes don’t like
Feminine Fi will inwardly look around and take what she likes and not take what she don’t like
you can also be a balance of both
This is off topic from the video but, I think I'm an ENTP and this is supposedly what we do. I went on the MBTI subreddit and I was basically saying that Carl Jung, the guy who's theories this is supposedly based off of said that true introverts and extroverts don't exist and the ones who do are probably in an asylum. Extroversion is a personality trait just like neuroticism is a personality trait. You can have really bad social anxiety which would make you an introvert according to the Myers-Briggs community standards but, you want to spend every waking moment with another person it just terrifies you, so what are you really if not an introvert or an extrovert, an ambivert. Then nearly every person on the planet would be an ambivert, it makes no sense unless introverts and extroverts don't exist. The only people I can think that this would actually apply to would be those in the manic cycle of bipolar disorder and on the flip side those with schizoid personality disorder.
interesting point.
What about E- "How does it relate to all of reality" yet it is irrelevant what the tribe's opinion is about the universal principle? Am I E because I'm about how it relates to all of reality, or I because the tribe/herd isn't how I orient myself?
Expresses their emotions outwardly? More like we have to learn to do this on a deeper level at some point, and more often. Sensitive to criticism? Nope! More like sensitive to other people's emotions and emotional states. As in we can feel their emotions, but we are detached from their feelings simultaneously, so not sensitive at the same time as being sensitive. Different type of sensitivity! Lives according to norms? Maybeish! We know the norms, but don't always live in them if we are being genuine. Norms aren't what most people think they are either. The Little Old Lady Who Lives In a Shoe? That's a nursery rhyme title. What's my bank account number? I'm not telling you that! Especially here, on the internet. Waba-laba ding-dong? How dare you!?!?! 1+3=4? Yep!
I like that idea. Stamp mbti on you. It's annoying how many times I've mistyped myself
1:40 1:45 so half the population only has Fe, and also even if we ignore this error, theres another question: half? Does that means fi fe (in top 4 functions) are distributed in society exactly in half? You dont even corect her. How does you guys simplification is any better from any other horoscope level simplification of how human works. Can you predict behavior with it? Whats the use of this 8 functions and 16 types tool?
So she’s an ExxJ, neither of them have Ne, and masculine Te. An ENTJ can spot another across a small city
I don't know why but your comment made me laugh so hard... "An ENTJ can spot another across a small city" Do you run from each other or keep your distance? My older sister is an ENTJ and she can be quite the character to stomach if people don't find her antics comical. She doesn't appreciate when I try to psychoanalyze her but can anyone blame me? She's an anomaly of scary and thrilling at the same time.
Flipping the bird to buckshot. My Ti approved.
Heyyy have you heard about the bloodtypes?
We alllll have one. We alllllllll have one of four. And it can tell you soooooooooooo much about your personality (according to this one guy from Japan a while ago)
What would feminine vs masculine NI look like?
Haha you two are brilliant together 😂thanks for the solid content
Infj here, I cry by myself, usually; because I value harmony, and none of those idiots will understand or be able to help anyway.
hahaha i loved the critics at the beginning
Dave totally looks like spike from buffy the vampire slayer 😍🤣
Disagree but yay a buffy fan !
@@nderevko7923 if they had the same haircut and wore a kakashi mask u would have no idea which was which 🤣
I don't think there is anything wrong with MBTI or the questions it asks. It's a unique system of its own. It doesn't perceive people to be one or the other but instead a "default" form of being. If a person has/shows Fi strongly, that is where their personality naturally feels most comfortable leading with (nature AND nurture). MBTI does not intend to be one or the other but will likely highlight where one's strengths and weaknesses exist. Hence, a person leads with Fi over Fe but still has the capacity to contain both. I mean... isn't that what your system does too?
I was thinking the same
Thank you, i mean it.
Pretty sure my Te and Ni are masculine and my Se and Fi are feminine. Even when i use those functions they're very teehee and like 🤗 but the masculine ones are like 💪 mwaahahaha my masterplan is moving along
This is really just imagination and adherence to norms, you can be made to assign any characteristic to a particular behavior or thing.
There is something with Thinking and Feeling that every system is missing out on until now, including OP in its current form. I do not know what it is yet, but I will find out in the next five years. That might just be my Ni peacocking here, BUT I WILL FIND OUT WHAT IS MISSING!
Stop trying to bang blocks together, Klaus. Feeling is your hero's journey thingy!
Feeling or Thinking? Or some hybrid extrovert form of both?
Stop arguing! Watch the Thinking video again to realise what you're doing here!
Wowww
“How is it that if you’re laughing and laughing with someone else, you’re not seeking validation?” That’s such a great point. People say that Jimmy Fallon must be an Fe dom because he laughs so much but I find that to be a really shallow reason
yo everyone talks crap about the mbti test but it got me perfectly correct.
This setup is way better than the new one. Bring Back The Black.
Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) uses masculine Fi in his songwriting.
Hell I’m a history nut and SI is dead last in fact I prolly haven’t used it in years..
I have masculine NE and Masciline FIi.
It sucks
Hot stuff 🔥
Dave loves talking shit about MB. Ni is about context, right? I'm surprised that he doesn't speak about them in the context of when they lived and the reason they created the MBTI. 1940s, wasn't it? Pretty advanced I'd say for the 40s. But, I guess they're sowing the seeds for people to talk shit about their instrument when we're in the 2090s. Boom! (Please someone read my comment, please!! My Fi needs your validation)
Way too much sarcasm in this video... You had fun making this video obviously but the satire was layered on thick to the point of incomprehensibility.
oh well they were being themselves so its allg
The terms "introvert" and "extrovert" should be defined using the Jungian definitions. You know, seeing as how he, himself, coined those terms. Big Five's nomenclature defines "introvert" and "extrovert" according to pop culture definitions.
Is this woman an enfp or entp?