I think you're basically teaching "gaming literacy". Which is good. And you're about the only one. I barely see any game criticism on _why_ they like certain gameplay.
@@thomashorne2607 I bought mobile version and I regret it because touchscreen control is bullshit for a game that require fast response and accurate button press because my fingers sometimes slipped and hit the wrong button on the screen.
@@thomashorne2607 I have just managed to unlock hard mode and having reached area three in hard once, I am can foresee a tremendous amount of frustration for beating the boss in future haha.
Great points! I personally enjoy the game because many of the actions available to improve your chances, conflict with your overall progress of going down. Such a fun game!
I've been casually playing Downwell on mobile for a few months, but didn't get really hooked until I was able to play on my ps4 controller. As soon as I picked it up on PS4, my combo count was going through the roof, and the genius of the game's mechanics stood out clear as day for me. My record combo is 81 now, but I've still yet to complete the final stage. Beautiful game that everyone should give a shot to.
Totally agree - the game is nearly flawless in what it tries to do but has two big flaws. First one is that touch control does not lend itself well to twitchy gameplay at all. Second one is that the combo system only rewards you up to x8 multiplier, so it's actually more beneficial to stop and land between every x8 combo to get more gems (which heavily detracts from the fast-paced feel).
Actually, you get rewards at 15 (an extra max ammo charge) and 25 (an extra health point) as well, the gems at 8 are more of a consolation prize for your combo getting broken too early. The real goal with the combo meter is to cash in every 25. This feels just about right; to me anyway.
Never have I gotten so caught up in a roguelike as I did with Downwell. It's simple aesthetic, incredibly tight controls, and everything you described here made it so replayable, something a lot of games lack these days. From a design standpoint, I really appreciate how each enemy had it's own schtick, whether its frogs jumping, skeletons throwing bones, or indestructible turtle shells (which make a return incorporating new elements) rather than just palette swapping after moving zones.
Played a fair bit of Downwell and I never quite twigged that the enemies with the white tops are the ones you can jump on. I just gradually learned which ones I couldn't jump on and never made the colour coded connection. Well... guess I have to go play that some more then.
I love Devil Daggers, but there really isn't that much mechanical depth to it. "Click on red glowing spots on enemies until they go away, and don't get hit". Really not that deep, but it is a ton of fun in practice.
+Demonhorse1 That's your opinion, personally, I think that the game's amazing and the the aesthetic is not only beautifully retro and well executed, but I also appreciate it because it is also incredibly useful too a player, especially when traveling quickly. Furthermore, the art's definitely not "lazy" because if you actually gave the game a chance you would notice how detailed many things about the game actually are. Sure, it's not GTAV fidelity levels, but it's also not aiming for it. Not every meal has to taste the same, not every game has to be the same. I don't like many things, but you've still got to respect them as valid pieces of work, just like you need to understand that different people like different things.
Downwell is one of my favorites. The way all these mechanical systems bleed into each other and gently nudge the player towards playing the most fun way (switching weapons frequently, playing fast and risky, striving for big combo) is brilliant and this video does a grand job of shining a light on all that good stuff.
Now that I've played Downwell, I can say that one thing I find super interesting about its design is how the game also manages to have a subtle yet dynamic difficulty curve when it comes to the combos and gemhigh mode. When you're in the early stages of a combo, you'll be collecting gems each time you stomp on an enemy. Eventually this puts you into gemhigh mode which, of course does more damage with larger bullets. However, in this case, that's a curse more than a blessing. As your bullets are now more likely to hit and kill enemies rather than just stalling you in midair, you stand a much higher chance of deleting or displacing your carefully selected next target, forcing you to improvise your combo until you can get back on your feet (so to speak). It's just cool little emergent design/difficulty things like this that I find so cool in games.
I found Downwell a few weeks ago and I fell in love with it. I actually just watched the GDC talk about this game this morning and your condensed version really drove home a lot of his points. This game is a new perfect distillation of the "Keep It Simple, Stupid" principle. Also, it's so great to see that Patreon supporter list get longer and longer with each video you release :)
WOW... I did an interview with the dev and was searching for the GDC speech that the main designer did on this game and ended up finding this video. Really great content and finesse. Subbed. It takes someone special to "see" the underlying aspects of such a design and manifest that vision clearly through words.
Hey Mark, you are a real inspiration to me, and I started my own youtube channel hoping to help game designers as well. Just wanted to let you know that you're great and to keep up the good work.
Dual-purpose design is really great in platformers. There's the relatively common "deal damage to refresh doublejump", attacks that give air time, Metroid's morphball that shrinks your hitbox, gives more precise control over movement, and allows you to lay trap bombs, attacks that create or turn enemies into platforms/cover, I've even seen a game where getting hit by your OWN bomb gives you a slight boost to jump height, encouraging you to fight in melee even as you sling long range bombs around.
I've been playing this game for months, both on PC and mobile, and you absolutely nailed what's so great about it. Good job! Games that can solve so many problems like this with big sweeping solutions are super clever, and quite the inspiration.
This game is so much fun! Supremely underrated indie game. Seriously one of my favorites. The point about the games design encouraging you to play that the way the developer intended is so true too.
I know this video is 4 years old, but I've had Downwell in my Steam Library for a very long time when it was on mega sale for like a dollar. Only put in an hour before the difficulty turned me off. Your description of the genius of the game (plus the fact that now I know you can land on specific enemies) makes me want to give it another go. Thank you.
Great insights into what makes the design of this game special, as always. Reading previous developer interviews, it's interesting how Ojiro Fumoto sort of stumbled across the gunboot idea and then narrowed the entire game's focus to center around it. I had a complete blast with Downwell, and I convinced lots of people to pick it up. It was a runner up for overall top pick in our 2015 GOTY awards, and winner of Best Action Game and Best Use of Brutal Difficulty. I can't say enough good things about it.
Noppy is the best weapon in the game, coming from someone who tried and beat the game in 3 runs. It takes 1 charge per shot, so it can keep you hovering when you get a lot of charge, and the shots aren't unpredictable or random. They angle off in the direction you're moving in, allowing for precise control of combos so you can either kill with the shots or kill by jumping. Since noppy is mostly used to maneuver well, you end up only really shooting down full red enemies, and as such you nearly never run out of shots from all the enemy trouncing you do. Plus the gem-charging upgrade and the huge charge values you'll have from cashing in combos will make it nearly impossible to lose charge completely if you're actually trying.
Great video, great game. One tiny gripe I have is that the default palette so good that I find myself never using the unlockable ones because they make it harder to see what's going on. As a result there's not much excitement or anticipation for unlocking new ones.
This is great. I just spent the entire day working on my game while watching through all your videos. I thought I missed this one but then realized it was a new video. Happy me. Thanks for making my game better, and also my day. :D
Some mechanics in games have a second purpose that isn't very intuitive- rocket jumping in Team Fortress 2 is an example that comes in mind. When rocket jumping, players feel like they're outsmarting the game, even though it's an intentional feature made by developers. A lot of players get a kick out of that feeling, and that's something to think about when designing dual-purpose mechanics like this.
Thanks to you, now I've heard of Downwell. I've bought the game already. I'd love to point other games that makes use of this concept: some CCGs allow players use their cards in a second way. Vanguard allows cards to be used to reduce damage, Duel Master allows players to use cards to summon other monsters, and Buddy Fight allows players to charge up their attacks.
been playing games since 1984 and this game takes everything great from the old days and mixes it with everything that's been learnt over time to make it feel fresh and highly playable. the simplicity of it's design is disgustingly brilliant...just awesome. it's a real "gem"... ;)
Downwell was my Game of the Year for 2015. Fantastic to see your breakdown of why it's so good. Hopefully many more people will play this superb game. :)
I know I should wait until your next Zelda video to mention this but, my friend and I have been working on a game in Zelda Classic where you only get your shield-- you never get a sword. Your only means of direct combat costs magic to use, so instead, you need to rely on deflecting enemy attacks to fight back. This has been challenging enough to design on its own (though our strafe button makes combat pretty fun, plus you can lower your shield to attract enemy fire), but I also decided we should make all of the dungeons make a lot of sense in-world. One is a garden taken over by a wild evil plant that's planted its spores to choke life from the area-- which grow vines to block your path. And well, now I know why Zelda developers don't seem to do that too often. It's such a challenge to design dungeons like that. The discussion of dual purpose design sort of reminded me of what we were doing with Shield Quest. We have a candle which serves as a limited form of direct damage as well as a puzzle solving tool. Magic is also used with other items to restore health or get other supportive benefits. Enemies aren't just a threat to you-- they're also your only way to freely inflict damage. You need them to get aggressive so you can defeat them. I feel like all of this sort of happened on accident. We're still amateurs doing this stuff as a hobby basically, but... I just never thought about game design like that until you brought it up here.
If you want an example of how _not_ to do this dual-purpose design, check out an RPG on the Wii called The Last Story. It's combat is designed so that almost every action has more than one consequence, but the end result is that in order to achieve an effect I want, I have to also trigger several effects I don't want. So instead of risk vs. reward choices, I just get stuck in catch-22s where I die no matter what I choose. For example, there's an ability that makes enemies target you, but it can also revive allies if you stand on top of their corpse. Say I'm fighting a large group of enemies, and my healer dies. If I run over and revive her, I'll probably get killed before she can cast her heal circle. If I ignore her and keep fighting, I'll probably get killed, since she's my only way of regenerating health. You could argue it's my fault for getting in that situation in the first place, but The Last Story's combat is so chaotic that you rarely feel that situations like this are your fault (and part of the reason combat feels chaotic is precisely because every attack triggers multiple different effects).
Saw about thirty seconds of this game in action on a twitter gif, and it was an instant buy. The design is absolutely genius, even at first glance, and it is just all too fun to keep coming back to.
Volgarr the Viking has lots of concepts that have 2 or more functions: Spear acts as a ranged weapon and also as temporary platform. Shield acts as an extra hit and also a way to block projectiles. Super shield acts as an upgrade to shield and also allows to show charged spears. Helmet acts as an extra hit and also makes your attacks fster. Dodge roll helps you move faster and it also prevents collision damage with the enemies. Rolling off the platform will also allow you to make two jumps in the air. Double jump also acts as an attack. And so on.
I got Downwell a few months ago on mobile just because of this video, even though it's hard to control, it's really fun to play with when I don't have a 3DS to play with, thanks!
One thing you didn't mention is the interesting incentive to end combos. Since the rewards cap out around 25 (I think, I forget the precise number) you have an interesting incentive to land on ground to stop your combo and collect rewards because any extra enemies in that combo are wasted since you wont get any more rewards. This has been critized a lot elsewhere but I thought it was interesting to try and pace myself in early stages to get as many combos that were nearly exactly the optimal legnth
This video convinced me to give Downwell a try and I have to say its been thoroughly enjoyable thus far. I'm not very good at it but the mechanics are solid and it feels good to play and get even the smallest of combos.
Roguelikes are being revived indeed. Spelunky, FTL, Downwell, Rogue Legacy, Darkest Dungeon, numerous mobile games... I know that for roguelike purists they are "roguelites", but this is so good. Roguelikes are amazing to learn to build a solid experience, because you have one shot to make your game be replayed, even if from the beginning. I like that a lot. Awesome video and thanks for sharing this game, Mark!
You should check it out! The original flash-game version is pretty outdated, but the remake is definitely worth buying, and there's a TON of content in the DLC packs.
Speedrunning this game makes you rethink the entire design. (Watch my WR's if you don't know what I mean) You don't want to pick up the guns because the default one is the best for maintaining horizontal momentum without touching the ground. Also, since we choose boulder character we can do some damage boosting, especially in world 4 and the boss, since we can get really easy 25 jump combos there. I highly recommend speedrunning Downwell because our community barely exists and its very easy to get into.
Also, gem attack also make you rethink of the entire design. The only problem is that in order to maximize gems, you often have to wait inside a bubble for a few enemies to come close enough to jump on them.
Downwell is definitely a favorite of mine. After hearing about how enticing the gameplay is from Jim Sterling, I decided to spend the few bucks on it and haven't regretted it at all. I've put so much time into it not only can I reliably beat the game reliably in hard mode using any style, I've unlocked everything and still play it. It's just that good.
With that quote in mind, I recommend the Pico-8 game Porklike. It's very similar in that it's very tightly designed, everything can do multiple things, and thought short, it's hard as heck.
This video made me get the game a year ago and beat it after months and months and months of playing it, but you did forget one thing: gems have more than 2 purposes. Not only can you buy upgrades with them and enter gem high mode, but with the gem powered upgrade getting gems recharges your gun boots, making large combos much easier and giving you loads more air time.
Love Downwell, glad someone is covering it more. You should consider covering Necropolis. I feel that game is a crazy mix of extremely good and classic roguelike and just... bland. Im having fun... kinda.. most of the time. Anyway, another great video.
As someone who's put over a day of his life into downwell I can say it's great. Achievement hunting is fun, and once you finish the game you unlock a brutally difficult hard mode that'll keep things tough.
Why does everyone hate noppy it's just an aimable machine gun and it's my personal favorite since it has high ammo and great for getting enemies in hard to reach places making it good for combos.
Yeah, I agree. It's not unpredictable it shoots in the directions your going, meaning it's a weapon you can train yourself to aim effective if you are willing too.
Awesome video. Extra Credits pointed me to this channel and it's awesome. I've played the game on PC and I can agree w/ everything here. Things DO go down well...until you die.
Dear FSM! You managed to get so much info along in such a short amount of time! Is this because the game does the same or because you're really good? Why not both!
Can you please talk about super meat boy? That game's level design is phenomenal, from the learning curve to building incentives it's amazing. Especially in the first world, the forest.
Noppy is actually my favorite weapon because it feels so nice with lazer sight. Usually if get all junk upgrades I'll pick lazer sight just in hopes that I'll get a noppy.
Man, Downwell is SO GOOD it hurts sometimes. I made the mistake of buying both it and Luftrausers on the same day during last winter's steam sale, and *nothing* of consequence was done by me that weekend.
Reminds me of a flash game called Chubby Ninja. Instead of falling, you are climbing up a randomly generated cave and instead of boots there is a Ninja dash which serves a similar purpose and uses "spirit power".
Okay Mark, I'll try it. Normally I don't play or spend money on mobile apps, but you made an excellent argument for Downwell. I'm tempted to get it on PC instead though.
Id love to see more episodes focused on more “simple” games, like this one, where there’s only a few mechanics, but everything is really thought out and everything has a purpose
dope video. please tell ppl about towerclimb and catacomb kids too. Not so much dual purpose but similarly hugely great development and crazy ideas done by tiny teams of talented geniuses. A lot to be learned from their development styles and working within very tight financial boundaries to create greatness.
"Downwell can offer a huge amount of depth" I guess that pun was intended :D
NIC4901 xD
daaaaaaaaaaamn :3
It actually gets deeper as you go
Heh
Puns are straight. As in faggy but in a straight way.
Well that episode certainly went down well...
pmac139 I love it!
...
-__-
Right where's the shotgun
Well, if you don’t STOP I’m going to take you down!!!
I think you're basically teaching "gaming literacy". Which is good. And you're about the only one. I barely see any game criticism on _why_ they like certain gameplay.
Do you know of MrBTounge? He's pretty good too.
Here is an example of his videos if you're interested: ua-cam.com/video/nvK8fua6O64/v-deo.html
Heavy Eyed, A leethal Llama, Keith Burgen, [game array], etc
Thanks for the suggestions guys!
Although I like MrBTounge it's not exactly the thing I mean.
Actually, now that I re-watch it, it is more story-analysis than gameplay, so nevermind.
Man, this video has inspired me to FINALLY pick this game up after months of considering it. Thanks a bunch!
Sounds like someone who can't make it through world 2 :p
Frank Washburn ive only ever gotten past world 2 once. And that was on mobile because my phone lags making the game run at half speed
@@thomashorne2607 I bought mobile version and I regret it because touchscreen control is bullshit for a game that require fast response and accurate button press because my fingers sometimes slipped and hit the wrong button on the screen.
@@thomashorne2607 I have just managed to unlock hard mode and having reached area three in hard once, I am can foresee a tremendous amount of frustration for beating the boss in future haha.
Same!
Great points! I personally enjoy the game because many of the actions available to improve your chances, conflict with your overall progress of going down. Such a fun game!
So basically, take every single one of your game mechanics and ask "What else can I make this do?"
I've been casually playing Downwell on mobile for a few months, but didn't get really hooked until I was able to play on my ps4 controller. As soon as I picked it up on PS4, my combo count was going through the roof, and the genius of the game's mechanics stood out clear as day for me. My record combo is 81 now, but I've still yet to complete the final stage. Beautiful game that everyone should give a shot to.
any games controlled by simulated keys arent designed properly for touching devices.
I could not agree more!
Totally agree - the game is nearly flawless in what it tries to do but has two big flaws. First one is that touch control does not lend itself well to twitchy gameplay at all. Second one is that the combo system only rewards you up to x8 multiplier, so it's actually more beneficial to stop and land between every x8 combo to get more gems (which heavily detracts from the fast-paced feel).
Actually, you get rewards at 15 (an extra max ammo charge) and 25 (an extra health point) as well, the gems at 8 are more of a consolation prize for your combo getting broken too early. The real goal with the combo meter is to cash in every 25. This feels just about right; to me anyway.
THRILLHO my highest combo is 204. Try to beat that :)
Never have I gotten so caught up in a roguelike as I did with Downwell. It's simple aesthetic, incredibly tight controls, and everything you described here made it so replayable, something a lot of games lack these days.
From a design standpoint, I really appreciate how each enemy had it's own schtick, whether its frogs jumping, skeletons throwing bones, or indestructible turtle shells (which make a return incorporating new elements) rather than just palette swapping after moving zones.
Played a fair bit of Downwell and I never quite twigged that the enemies with the white tops are the ones you can jump on. I just gradually learned which ones I couldn't jump on and never made the colour coded connection. Well... guess I have to go play that some more then.
Yes, you did *Downwell*. The game is so underrated.
Please do a video on *DevilsDaggers*. That game has so much mechanical depth to it.
its called retro
Demonhorse1 ok ok go play some cod or cs go if you want good graphics
I love Devil Daggers, but there really isn't that much mechanical depth to it. "Click on red glowing spots on enemies until they go away, and don't get hit". Really not that deep, but it is a ton of fun in practice.
AvoidingtheQuestion lol I meant mechanically simple but addictive.
+Demonhorse1 That's your opinion, personally, I think that the game's amazing and the the aesthetic is not only beautifully retro and well executed, but I also appreciate it because it is also incredibly useful too a player, especially when traveling quickly.
Furthermore, the art's definitely not "lazy" because if you actually gave the game a chance you would notice how detailed many things about the game actually are. Sure, it's not GTAV fidelity levels, but it's also not aiming for it. Not every meal has to taste the same, not every game has to be the same. I don't like many things, but you've still got to respect them as valid pieces of work, just like you need to understand that different people like different things.
He got hired by Nintendo so the Miyamoto quote was appropriate!
Did he?
@@Docdoozer Yes, but he quit at the end of 2018 in order to return to the indie scene
Downwell is one of my favorites. The way all these mechanical systems bleed into each other and gently nudge the player towards playing the most fun way (switching weapons frequently, playing fast and risky, striving for big combo) is brilliant and this video does a grand job of shining a light on all that good stuff.
What's the game at 0:00?
+Dave Starr Shrek SuperSlam
lol I did not need to remember that game.
Fortnite.
Upwell
Dave, that's the best comment I've read in a while.
Now that I've played Downwell, I can say that one thing I find super interesting about its design is how the game also manages to have a subtle yet dynamic difficulty curve when it comes to the combos and gemhigh mode.
When you're in the early stages of a combo, you'll be collecting gems each time you stomp on an enemy. Eventually this puts you into gemhigh mode which, of course does more damage with larger bullets. However, in this case, that's a curse more than a blessing. As your bullets are now more likely to hit and kill enemies rather than just stalling you in midair, you stand a much higher chance of deleting or displacing your carefully selected next target, forcing you to improvise your combo until you can get back on your feet (so to speak).
It's just cool little emergent design/difficulty things like this that I find so cool in games.
1:10 Boots...
...with guns
...gun boots.
Open the County,
Stop having it be closed
(sorry, too lazy to come up with a joke. I thought open the floor but doesn't really work)
The sun is a deadly lazer.
They're referred to as gunboots in the game
Logo Da Pogo r/woosh?
r/woooosh
Played this at a friend's house. The first attempt you basically go "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" the whole time.
YES! Downwell is a masterpiece of game design. An incredible deal for $3.
I found Downwell a few weeks ago and I fell in love with it. I actually just watched the GDC talk about this game this morning and your condensed version really drove home a lot of his points. This game is a new perfect distillation of the "Keep It Simple, Stupid" principle.
Also, it's so great to see that Patreon supporter list get longer and longer with each video you release :)
WOW... I did an interview with the dev and was searching for the GDC speech that the main designer did on this game and ended up finding this video. Really great content and finesse. Subbed. It takes someone special to "see" the underlying aspects of such a design and manifest that vision clearly through words.
I got addicted to this game, this game is really a hidden gem
I bought the game because of this video!
Hope you enjoy it!
Already am! Also, totally binging on your videos. You got yourself a subscriber.
"Downwell can offer a huge amount of depth"
*slow clap*
Hey Mark, you are a real inspiration to me, and I started my own youtube channel hoping to help game designers as well. Just wanted to let you know that you're great and to keep up the good work.
+Earth.Otherwise Thanks! Best of luck with the channel
Dual-purpose design is really great in platformers. There's the relatively common "deal damage to refresh doublejump", attacks that give air time, Metroid's morphball that shrinks your hitbox, gives more precise control over movement, and allows you to lay trap bombs, attacks that create or turn enemies into platforms/cover, I've even seen a game where getting hit by your OWN bomb gives you a slight boost to jump height, encouraging you to fight in melee even as you sling long range bombs around.
I've been playing this game for months, both on PC and mobile, and you absolutely nailed what's so great about it. Good job! Games that can solve so many problems like this with big sweeping solutions are super clever, and quite the inspiration.
I'm so glad you covered this game. It needs more attention. Excellent work as always.
This is what made your videos so special, you nailed to point every aspect of a deep game that at first view seems very simple and boring. Amazing.
This game is so much fun! Supremely underrated indie game. Seriously one of my favorites. The point about the games design encouraging you to play that the way the developer intended is so true too.
The way I've always described to Downwell to my developer friends is "a masterclass in game design". It's simply sublime.
I know this video is 4 years old, but I've had Downwell in my Steam Library for a very long time when it was on mega sale for like a dollar. Only put in an hour before the difficulty turned me off. Your description of the genius of the game (plus the fact that now I know you can land on specific enemies) makes me want to give it another go. Thank you.
Great insights into what makes the design of this game special, as always. Reading previous developer interviews, it's interesting how Ojiro Fumoto sort of stumbled across the gunboot idea and then narrowed the entire game's focus to center around it.
I had a complete blast with Downwell, and I convinced lots of people to pick it up. It was a runner up for overall top pick in our 2015 GOTY awards, and winner of Best Action Game and Best Use of Brutal Difficulty. I can't say enough good things about it.
All these years later and I still come back to this one.
Noppy is the best weapon in the game, coming from someone who tried and beat the game in 3 runs. It takes 1 charge per shot, so it can keep you hovering when you get a lot of charge, and the shots aren't unpredictable or random. They angle off in the direction you're moving in, allowing for precise control of combos so you can either kill with the shots or kill by jumping. Since noppy is mostly used to maneuver well, you end up only really shooting down full red enemies, and as such you nearly never run out of shots from all the enemy trouncing you do. Plus the gem-charging upgrade and the huge charge values you'll have from cashing in combos will make it nearly impossible to lose charge completely if you're actually trying.
This is a fantastic explanation of why Downwell is one of my favorite games of all time.
Because of this, I immediately went and bought the game. Thank you so much for the recommendation! It's such a good game!
Oh you must regret these 3 dollars you spent on this game.
Sorry, no regret still to be found...
Why would you regret a great game?
The visual styles of your videos are always very nice without being intrusive and I feel like that doesn’t get said enough
The post credit of this game is so short, but so memorable.
Great video, great game. One tiny gripe I have is that the default palette so good that I find myself never using the unlockable ones because they make it harder to see what's going on. As a result there's not much excitement or anticipation for unlocking new ones.
This is great. I just spent the entire day working on my game while watching through all your videos. I thought I missed this one but then realized it was a new video. Happy me. Thanks for making my game better, and also my day. :D
I've played downwell since Balrog made his video :) I love how people are talking about this
Wow you're so salty you had to comment thee+ times with how bad you think the game is.
Why do people really need to flame on me? ;_; its just a comment
This was an awesome episode! I really liked hearing how Downwell uses meaningful choice and multifunctional mechanics to make a game worthwhile.
Some mechanics in games have a second purpose that isn't very intuitive- rocket jumping in Team Fortress 2 is an example that comes in mind. When rocket jumping, players feel like they're outsmarting the game, even though it's an intentional feature made by developers. A lot of players get a kick out of that feeling, and that's something to think about when designing dual-purpose mechanics like this.
Saw it available on PS+, thought of this video, downloaded instantly. Been playing all day, thanks Mark :)
Thanks to you, now I've heard of Downwell. I've bought the game already.
I'd love to point other games that makes use of this concept: some CCGs allow players use their cards in a second way.
Vanguard allows cards to be used to reduce damage, Duel Master allows players to use cards to summon other monsters, and Buddy Fight allows players to charge up their attacks.
been playing games since 1984 and this game takes everything great from the old days and mixes it with everything that's been learnt over time to make it feel fresh and highly playable. the simplicity of it's design is disgustingly brilliant...just awesome. it's a real "gem"... ;)
Downwell was my Game of the Year for 2015. Fantastic to see your breakdown of why it's so good. Hopefully many more people will play this superb game. :)
Good luck to every jammer out there! Let's make the best dual-purpose-designed game we can muster in these next few days!
Absolutely one of my favorite games. So glad to hear you talk about it!
Well, this one wil be a little difficult to do, but I love a challenge! Good look to all the jammers!
jammers?
game jammers.
I know I should wait until your next Zelda video to mention this but, my friend and I have been working on a game in Zelda Classic where you only get your shield-- you never get a sword. Your only means of direct combat costs magic to use, so instead, you need to rely on deflecting enemy attacks to fight back. This has been challenging enough to design on its own (though our strafe button makes combat pretty fun, plus you can lower your shield to attract enemy fire), but I also decided we should make all of the dungeons make a lot of sense in-world. One is a garden taken over by a wild evil plant that's planted its spores to choke life from the area-- which grow vines to block your path. And well, now I know why Zelda developers don't seem to do that too often. It's such a challenge to design dungeons like that.
The discussion of dual purpose design sort of reminded me of what we were doing with Shield Quest. We have a candle which serves as a limited form of direct damage as well as a puzzle solving tool. Magic is also used with other items to restore health or get other supportive benefits. Enemies aren't just a threat to you-- they're also your only way to freely inflict damage. You need them to get aggressive so you can defeat them. I feel like all of this sort of happened on accident. We're still amateurs doing this stuff as a hobby basically, but... I just never thought about game design like that until you brought it up here.
If you want an example of how _not_ to do this dual-purpose design, check out an RPG on the Wii called The Last Story. It's combat is designed so that almost every action has more than one consequence, but the end result is that in order to achieve an effect I want, I have to also trigger several effects I don't want. So instead of risk vs. reward choices, I just get stuck in catch-22s where I die no matter what I choose.
For example, there's an ability that makes enemies target you, but it can also revive allies if you stand on top of their corpse. Say I'm fighting a large group of enemies, and my healer dies. If I run over and revive her, I'll probably get killed before she can cast her heal circle. If I ignore her and keep fighting, I'll probably get killed, since she's my only way of regenerating health. You could argue it's my fault for getting in that situation in the first place, but The Last Story's combat is so chaotic that you rarely feel that situations like this are your fault (and part of the reason combat feels chaotic is precisely because every attack triggers multiple different effects).
Saw about thirty seconds of this game in action on a twitter gif, and it was an instant buy. The design is absolutely genius, even at first glance, and it is just all too fun to keep coming back to.
Volgarr the Viking has lots of concepts that have 2 or more functions:
Spear acts as a ranged weapon and also as temporary platform.
Shield acts as an extra hit and also a way to block projectiles.
Super shield acts as an upgrade to shield and also allows to show charged spears.
Helmet acts as an extra hit and also makes your attacks fster.
Dodge roll helps you move faster and it also prevents collision damage with the enemies. Rolling off the platform will also allow you to make two jumps in the air.
Double jump also acts as an attack.
And so on.
When you’ve played long enough that jump button is just a “fire “ button
Beautiful episode! I love your channel more and more with each new video. Keep it up.
The noppy boost isn't unpredictable, it shoots at a 30 degree angle in whichever direction you're moving in.
the "you?" in the end is super cheeky! ^^
Well played
Bought this game after watching your video. It's definitely up there with The Binding of Isaac and Spelunky now! Great stuff, Mark!
i really like this game as a gamer and as a developer. the design and mechanics built around it all work perfectly
Downwell is probably one of the best mobile-based games on the market and you 100% captured why. Kudos!
I got Downwell a few months ago on mobile just because of this video, even though it's hard to control, it's really fun to play with when I don't have a 3DS to play with, thanks!
3:23 "Downwell can offer a huge amount of depth".
You aint kidding!
One thing you didn't mention is the interesting incentive to end combos. Since the rewards cap out around 25 (I think, I forget the precise number) you have an interesting incentive to land on ground to stop your combo and collect rewards because any extra enemies in that combo are wasted since you wont get any more rewards. This has been critized a lot elsewhere but I thought it was interesting to try and pace myself in early stages to get as many combos that were nearly exactly the optimal legnth
This video convinced me to give Downwell a try and I have to say its been thoroughly enjoyable thus far. I'm not very good at it but the mechanics are solid and it feels good to play and get even the smallest of combos.
Roguelikes are being revived indeed. Spelunky, FTL, Downwell, Rogue Legacy, Darkest Dungeon, numerous mobile games...
I know that for roguelike purists they are "roguelites", but this is so good.
Roguelikes are amazing to learn to build a solid experience, because you have one shot to make your game be replayed, even if from the beginning. I like that a lot.
Awesome video and thanks for sharing this game, Mark!
7PLAYS I'm surprised you didn't mention the Binding of Isaac. Come to think of it, I'm almost shocked that Mark hasn't discussed Isaac on GMT yet!
I didn't played it, only heard of. So I didn't know that it was a roguelike haha
You should check it out! The original flash-game version is pretty outdated, but the remake is definitely worth buying, and there's a TON of content in the DLC packs.
Speedrunning this game makes you rethink the entire design. (Watch my WR's if you don't know what I mean) You don't want to pick up the guns because the default one is the best for maintaining horizontal momentum without touching the ground. Also, since we choose boulder character we can do some damage boosting, especially in world 4 and the boss, since we can get really easy 25 jump combos there. I highly recommend speedrunning Downwell because our community barely exists and its very easy to get into.
Also, gem attack also make you rethink of the entire design. The only problem is that in order to maximize gems, you often have to wait inside a bubble for a few enemies to come close enough to jump on them.
Noppy makes your bullets move the direction you're moving. It's easy to predict when you get the hang of it.
I love this game's mechanics but it's difficulty drives me crazy, damnit. Glad to see it get some more love, though.
I have installed down well do free
Form chrome
Downwell is definitely a favorite of mine. After hearing about how enticing the gameplay is from Jim Sterling, I decided to spend the few bucks on it and haven't regretted it at all. I've put so much time into it not only can I reliably beat the game reliably in hard mode using any style, I've unlocked everything and still play it. It's just that good.
I just 100% the game and wanted to spread the word on how good it is, but couldn’t explain why! Great video
4 years old and I hadn't heard about the game until I saw a video where you mentioned it the other day (also an old video)
Damn. Thanks for recommending this!
happy to see you talk about Downwell! It's such an exceptional and fun game, though I'll have to practice more to actually become good at it.
Brilliant. I bought the game immediately after that scene, and it's been as good as I'd hoped
Downwell is one of the best games I’ve played.
With that quote in mind, I recommend the Pico-8 game Porklike. It's very similar in that it's very tightly designed, everything can do multiple things, and thought short, it's hard as heck.
This video made me get the game a year ago and beat it after months and months and months of playing it, but you did forget one thing: gems have more than 2 purposes. Not only can you buy upgrades with them and enter gem high mode, but with the gem powered upgrade getting gems recharges your gun boots, making large combos much easier and giving you loads more air time.
I was fortunate to review Downwell when it came out. It is a brilliant game and as close to perfect as a video game gets.
So good that someone shows appreciation to great mobile games, there are some real masterpieces in the depths of play store
Love Downwell, glad someone is covering it more.
You should consider covering Necropolis. I feel that game is a crazy mix of extremely good and classic roguelike and just... bland. Im having fun... kinda.. most of the time.
Anyway, another great video.
Great video! Downwell had me hooked, I couldnt put in down until I completed a full run!
As someone who's put over a day of his life into downwell I can say it's great. Achievement hunting is fun, and once you finish the game you unlock a brutally difficult hard mode that'll keep things tough.
Why does everyone hate noppy it's just an aimable machine gun and it's my personal favorite since it has high ammo and great for getting enemies in hard to reach places making it good for combos.
Yeah, I agree. It's not unpredictable it shoots in the directions your going, meaning it's a weapon you can train yourself to aim effective if you are willing too.
Very interesting
Awesome video. Extra Credits pointed me to this channel and it's awesome. I've played the game on PC and I can agree w/ everything here. Things DO go down well...until you die.
Wow I just got this game 4 hours and I'm loving it's such a chaotic fun romp.
Heard of this game first in this video. Finally got it tonight. Barely last 70 seconds per run. This is brutal.
Good luck in the game jam you guys. Excited to see what the winner comes up with in 48 hours. :)
Dear FSM! You managed to get so much info along in such a short amount of time! Is this because the game does the same or because you're really good? Why not both!
Can you please talk about super meat boy? That game's level design is phenomenal, from the learning curve to building incentives it's amazing. Especially in the first world, the forest.
+Abdulrahman Essa maybe one day! though, I feel there's quite a lot out there on that game already
Mark Brown Yea but does it come packaged in a smooth buttery voice?
what about talking about Cave Story? Love what you're doing by the way, keep up the great work
Noppy is actually my favorite weapon because it feels so nice with lazer sight. Usually if get all junk upgrades I'll pick lazer sight just in hopes that I'll get a noppy.
Man, Downwell is SO GOOD it hurts sometimes. I made the mistake of buying both it and Luftrausers on the same day during last winter's steam sale, and *nothing* of consequence was done by me that weekend.
I don't know how I haven't hear of this game. Now I'm gonna fix that. Thanks for showing this game! Look awesome! :D
i really love playing downwell in my phone...my friends say it looks boring because of the color range..but to me that's where the charm comes from
I'm still playing it on PSVITA... A beautiful satisfying game! 🙏🏻
Reminds me of a flash game called Chubby Ninja. Instead of falling, you are climbing up a randomly generated cave and instead of boots there is a Ninja dash which serves a similar purpose and uses "spirit power".
Also like Spelunky, the soundtrack was done by Eirik Suhrke!
Okay Mark, I'll try it. Normally I don't play or spend money on mobile apps, but you made an excellent argument for Downwell. I'm tempted to get it on PC instead though.
+ninjaheartt Either's good. Just get it on the platform you like best
Id love to see more episodes focused on more “simple” games, like this one, where there’s only a few mechanics, but everything is really thought out and everything has a purpose
dope video. please tell ppl about towerclimb and catacomb kids too. Not so much dual purpose but similarly hugely great development and crazy ideas done by tiny teams of talented geniuses.
A lot to be learned from their development styles and working within very tight financial boundaries to create greatness.