How thick are the judges in court to think that over 700 postmasters become thieves after getting new computers in As for Paula she should pay back her golden hand shake and if she can’t be put to prison
Not one judge involved in prosecuting them knew there had been hundreds of other alleged thefts, far less that many, the responsibility lays with the post office who lied about them in court.
This is why courts need more joined up thinking. Each court working in isolation without access to data about what is going on in other courts is rubbish.
It's a disgrace it took a TV show for this story to be FINALLY widely reported and for the country to know what had actually happened. The people who did this should be put in prison.
And to think the main media didn’t want to know about this. Just like the grooming gang scandal. Proves the modern British Press is in bed with the establishment.
The rich and powerful will always protect their own but when cornered and pushed will throw them to the wolves to protect themselves! That's their nature!
The Post Office is a dead entity. Those who are struggling on the front line, to continue to be the "friendly face" of the Post Office, I feel sorry for as they are fighting a losing battle. Rising prices, failing services, employing non postal wokers who take post home. It sits there for days, possibly never reaching the customer. It's on it's knees.
Falling services are purely to be blamed on the Government allowing foreign services to cherry pick areas they operate in. None of the private services operate in the moors, the highlands, or any area of low population. This privatisation scandal needs to be shut down now.
This isn't a story from the past. It's ongoing. Maybe only halfway through. We are however past the turning point where the Post Office have any shred of credibility
Also we are not at the point of compensation. The spms who were defrauded out of funds by 'money with menaces'have still not received their money back.
Whist everything is currently focussed on the victims please please dont let the evil prosecutors, board members and lawyers slip quietyl away. They all need to be put where they put the Postmasters
What a hero Alan Bates is. Apart from those in the British military he is what a real hero looks like. If I were on the wrong side of this scandal I would dread his very name. It’s now time for those involved in the wrongdoing to face the misery and anxiety that they caused innocent people. And they will so they can forget trying to hide behind their titles and awards and that includes Ed Davey, Jo Swindon and Vince Gable.
Surely NOBODY, corporate or otherwise, should be allowed to police themselves. And why is it still the same setup? Self governing, policing and horizon . Same as 20 years ago?
British justice system - wait a decade for a TV series to come out, and in the same year as a general election, suddenly show concern to the injustice…even the Police say, ‘oh, we missed this one!
It appears to me this is one of the good examples of how carefully producing a drama, which is as much as possible accurate in what the various people said where is all recorded in transcripts and the like so the average person can understand it properly, helps to aid democracy and justice. It's virtually inaccessible if the information is scattered in many forms. I suppose you could liken it to when a car design firm builds a model of their design so that the human brain can understand it in its entirety. Anyway, questions still remains. Who was it that wrote the bug and does he know? Indeed does anyone know what the bug was? It looks to me like one of these random computer errors where you can't simply reproduce a set of conditions to observe the wrong number being calculated, i.e. a bug which looks non-deterministic. These are the hardest bugs to track down. One common cause is a piece of code that writes to the memory beyond the memory that was allocated, commonly referred to as a buffer overrun. If you have some code that does this then your system may work most of the time, but every now and again it would do totally unpredictable things. It's like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack, as in it could be anywhere in the code.
There was more than one bug. It's alleged that the live system was built onto the prototype, which is a no-no. How much testing was carried out? Why was coding on the fly allowed without testing the results? This seems to be a mickey mouse programme with mickey mouse coders acting without restraint or oversight.
@@mollienight I think building a system from a prototype is usually the way to go. There are many different approaches to coding and coding itself is more an art form where there is no "correct way" to do it. Every programmer has his set of tricks to help him write good code. It may well be the bug only appeared when the system was under substantial load and this would be hard to impossible to simulate, and testing it live is what people do because there is no other way. If it were me I would introduce it to a few test branches first and for every transaction I would keep a backup paper record and then compare one to the other. The first appearance of the bug would then mean you should track that bug down and fix it before going any further. chances are the code itself was simply messy and hence difficult to understand. Where the code gets overly messy one needs to to some fairly large scale restructuring operations. The problem when people say you should plan first then code is it is impossible to see every problem from the outset. It's a bit like working in a room where the more work in the same room the more untidy it gets until someone say, right everyone stop work, we need to clean this place up first, then once you resume programming you can work much faster and more error free. The negative side though is after a restructuring you will need to test everything again.
@@Andrew-rc3vh I worked as a coder for the government back in the late 70's, working on ICL mainframes - Fujitsu is ICL rebranded - and we were trained on the Jackson Structured programming system, which I believe was used in the Horizon software. The days of monolithic coding belong in the past but still used by mavericks such as Prof pantsdown Ferguson with his one line of fortran which effectively locked down the whole country and people lost their businesses. JSP should allow for a better way of coding where GoTos are avoided as much as possible to allow for an easier way to make corrections or allow modifications. The systems analyst should prepare a top level design together with all the relevant inputs and required outputs, the coder is given their particular routine to code, it's then tested using black box testing, long before it becomes part of the live system. Going live will inevitably bring up what can go wrong, but thorough testing after each amendment should iron out a lot of errors. Fujitsu was and probably still is a wild west of programming, certainly re Horizon.
@@mollienight Ah well you are talking about the concept of encapsulation. I've had a look at the wiki page of JSP, and note it was itself a product of the 70s in the days of Cobol. Yes I do know what Fortran looks like as I was taught it at university but never ever used it. At the time this was written the object orientated languages were all the rage and as languages became more sophisticated one could argue that the language would provide many of the things JSP set out to do. For me I hate rules with programming and tend to look at the job and then figure out the best way to do it according to the job in hand. I will both use a modular approach in places where that fits naturally, like say a network can be its own program, and other times where for speed often, a monolithic solution works better. For Ferguson's program, the sophistication would have been in the maths. The size of the code is often an unreliable indicator on how well it will perform.
@@Andrew-rc3vh As an individual coder you may have that luxury, but when you work in larger departments, indeed corporate and government, then forward compatibility and the ability to modify coding becomes essential. I agree that languages such as C++ etc have put the emphasis on modular programming which is a good thing in a large environment where frequent churn of coders may be a problem. The one-line code of Ferguson extended to several pages of code, that's why I mention it. "original program used by Ferguson was “a single 15,000 line file that had been worked on for a decade”".
This lovely man should have been on the Honours List for the past 15 years. What a man 👍🏻😊
How thick are the judges in court to think that over 700 postmasters become thieves after getting new computers in As for Paula she should pay back her golden hand shake and if she can’t be put to prison
Not one judge involved in prosecuting them knew there had been hundreds of other alleged thefts, far less that many, the responsibility lays with the post office who lied about them in court.
This is why courts need more joined up thinking. Each court working in isolation without access to data about what is going on in other courts is rubbish.
It's a disgrace it took a TV show for this story to be FINALLY widely reported and for the country to know what had actually happened. The people who did this should be put in prison.
absolutely
And to think the main media didn’t want to know about this. Just like the grooming gang scandal. Proves the modern British Press is in bed with the establishment.
well done mr Bates, you have done your group a great deal of service, thank you for standing up for the innocent.
Mr Bates should train our MPs on how to act with honesty and integrity. Without him there would be no justice.
The rich and powerful will always protect their own but when cornered and pushed will throw them to the wolves to protect themselves! That's their nature!
Alan Bates is an amazing man
Absolute legend. Dogged persistance against the state!
Honours before honesty! Lock them all up!
Fujitsu need investigating as well
Never gonna happen with this government, various Tory MPs are in bed with Fujitsu, including the Prime Minister.
The Post Office is a dead entity. Those who are struggling on the front line, to continue to be the "friendly face" of the Post Office, I feel sorry for as they are fighting a losing battle. Rising prices, failing services, employing non postal wokers who take post home. It sits there for days, possibly never reaching the customer. It's on it's knees.
Falling services are purely to be blamed on the Government allowing foreign services to cherry pick areas they operate in. None of the private services operate in the moors, the highlands, or any area of low population. This privatisation scandal needs to be shut down now.
I know the story, it’s really terrible what’s happened. God bless the victims.♥️🌻🙏🧑🏻🦼
Alan bates is a legend he battled pure evil in the post office they tryed every trick in the book to bury this😤😤😤
This isn't a story from the past. It's ongoing. Maybe only halfway through. We are however past the turning point where the Post Office have any shred of credibility
Also we are not at the point of compensation. The spms who were defrauded out of funds by 'money with menaces'have still not received their money back.
honours, Saville got 2 and Harris got 3, she is in good company.
he should get a medal for taking them on
Whist everything is currently focussed on the victims please please dont let the evil prosecutors, board members and lawyers slip quietyl away. They all need to be put where they put the Postmasters
Its was all about "cover up" at any cost (and innocent individuals paid the cost).
What a hero Alan Bates is. Apart from those in the British military he is what a real hero looks like. If I were on the wrong side of this scandal I would dread his very name. It’s now time for those involved in the wrongdoing to face the misery and anxiety that they caused innocent people. And they will so they can forget trying to hide behind their titles and awards and that includes Ed Davey, Jo Swindon and Vince Gable.
Another costly public enquiry, How much taxpayers money is going to be wasted on black toner and in k to redact 99. Percent of the eventual report?
Surely NOBODY, corporate or otherwise, should be allowed to police themselves. And why is it still the same setup? Self governing, policing and horizon . Same as 20 years ago?
Why not put Alan Bates in charge of the Post Office.
Or the country.
British justice system - wait a decade for a TV series to come out, and in the same year as a general election, suddenly show concern to the injustice…even the Police say, ‘oh, we missed this one!
Public march.
Hozier? Davey! Don’t forget this pair of muppets
He says “the scandals started in 2019”… no it was over twenty years ago that the scandal started
He's got it wrong hasn't her? It didn't start way back in 2019 with the introduction of the Horizon system, it was 1999.
Horizon was introduced in 2019?? Someone typed up the autocue incorrectly
Yes, it was introduced around 1999
Anther systems error but don’t worry, we must trust this more than individuals!!
its murder
It appears to me this is one of the good examples of how carefully producing a drama, which is as much as possible accurate in what the various people said where is all recorded in transcripts and the like so the average person can understand it properly, helps to aid democracy and justice. It's virtually inaccessible if the information is scattered in many forms. I suppose you could liken it to when a car design firm builds a model of their design so that the human brain can understand it in its entirety.
Anyway, questions still remains. Who was it that wrote the bug and does he know? Indeed does anyone know what the bug was? It looks to me like one of these random computer errors where you can't simply reproduce a set of conditions to observe the wrong number being calculated, i.e. a bug which looks non-deterministic. These are the hardest bugs to track down. One common cause is a piece of code that writes to the memory beyond the memory that was allocated, commonly referred to as a buffer overrun. If you have some code that does this then your system may work most of the time, but every now and again it would do totally unpredictable things. It's like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack, as in it could be anywhere in the code.
There was more than one bug. It's alleged that the live system was built onto the prototype, which is a no-no. How much testing was carried out? Why was coding on the fly allowed without testing the results? This seems to be a mickey mouse programme with mickey mouse coders acting without restraint or oversight.
@@mollienight I think building a system from a prototype is usually the way to go. There are many different approaches to coding and coding itself is more an art form where there is no "correct way" to do it. Every programmer has his set of tricks to help him write good code.
It may well be the bug only appeared when the system was under substantial load and this would be hard to impossible to simulate, and testing it live is what people do because there is no other way. If it were me I would introduce it to a few test branches first and for every transaction I would keep a backup paper record and then compare one to the other. The first appearance of the bug would then mean you should track that bug down and fix it before going any further. chances are the code itself was simply messy and hence difficult to understand. Where the code gets overly messy one needs to to some fairly large scale restructuring operations.
The problem when people say you should plan first then code is it is impossible to see every problem from the outset. It's a bit like working in a room where the more work in the same room the more untidy it gets until someone say, right everyone stop work, we need to clean this place up first, then once you resume programming you can work much faster and more error free. The negative side though is after a restructuring you will need to test everything again.
@@Andrew-rc3vh I worked as a coder for the government back in the late 70's, working on ICL mainframes - Fujitsu is ICL rebranded - and we were trained on the Jackson Structured programming system, which I believe was used in the Horizon software. The days of monolithic coding belong in the past but still used by mavericks such as Prof pantsdown Ferguson with his one line of fortran which effectively locked down the whole country and people lost their businesses. JSP should allow for a better way of coding where GoTos are avoided as much as possible to allow for an easier way to make corrections or allow modifications. The systems analyst should prepare a top level design together with all the relevant inputs and required outputs, the coder is given their particular routine to code, it's then tested using black box testing, long before it becomes part of the live system. Going live will inevitably bring up what can go wrong, but thorough testing after each amendment should iron out a lot of errors. Fujitsu was and probably still is a wild west of programming, certainly re Horizon.
@@mollienight Ah well you are talking about the concept of encapsulation. I've had a look at the wiki page of JSP, and note it was itself a product of the 70s in the days of Cobol. Yes I do know what Fortran looks like as I was taught it at university but never ever used it. At the time this was written the object orientated languages were all the rage and as languages became more sophisticated one could argue that the language would provide many of the things JSP set out to do.
For me I hate rules with programming and tend to look at the job and then figure out the best way to do it according to the job in hand. I will both use a modular approach in places where that fits naturally, like say a network can be its own program, and other times where for speed often, a monolithic solution works better. For Ferguson's program, the sophistication would have been in the maths. The size of the code is often an unreliable indicator on how well it will perform.
@@Andrew-rc3vh As an individual coder you may have that luxury, but when you work in larger departments, indeed corporate and government, then forward compatibility and the ability to modify coding becomes essential. I agree that languages such as C++ etc have put the emphasis on modular programming which is a good thing in a large environment where frequent churn of coders may be a problem. The one-line code of Ferguson extended to several pages of code, that's why I mention it. "original program used by Ferguson was “a single 15,000 line file that had been worked on for a decade”".
Pathetic BBC can bring themselves to congratulate ITV