Post Office Scandal: "Taxpayer Shouldn’t Have To Fund Compensation”
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- The government is exploring ways to clear the names of hundreds of sub-postmasters involved in the Post Office Horizon scandal. Over 700 branch managers faced convictions for false accounting, theft, and fraud due to faulty software, but fewer than 100 have had their convictions overturned.
The prime minister mentioned that the government is considering options, including removing the Post Office's role in the appeal process. Previously, the Post Office had the authority to decide on prosecutions and presented evidence through its appointed lawyers. However, one option being considered is for the Crown Prosecution Service and its lawyers to take over as appeals continue.
Many victims of the scandal, which started in 1999, are still fighting to overturn convictions or receive full compensation after being forced to pay thousands of pounds for shortfalls caused by the faulty Horizon accounting software.
Jonny Gould speaks with Conservative MP Paul Scully.
#news #postoffice #scandal #talktv #talkradio
People lost their houses..people took their own lives, lost everything you can’t imagine. Compensation will never cover their loss
As an ex Royal Mail postman I recognise the behaviour of the Post Office management and investigators, well done to the Postmasters in fronting up to these bullying bastards
@@michaelharrington5975As an ex sub postmistress of a small rural post office who endured an armed robbery by two men wearing balaclavas carrying sorn of shot guns I couldn’t agree more. The PO showed no empathy at all ,I received a grilling by the men in suits and made to repay the money stolen . Bastards isn’t a strong enough word. Needless to say I immediately closed .
That is disgraceful! I'm so sorry that happened to you. @@lindastorey4441
Fujitsu should pay every penny of the money back and all the compensation. They were paid to deliver the system, and this is what it caused.
Like any commercial contract there will be a liability period that is usually 6 years from the date of supply, which I guess is 2005/6. Also the contract is between Fujitsu and PO, not any of the postmasters who were also, generally self-employed. The only way that Fujitsu could be sued is if PO enjoined them in any action that the postmasters took but that would still be governed by the 6 year liability limit. The fact is that Fujitsu are probably safe from any action and it must rightly fall on PO. If PO had acted properly from the outset Fujitsu would have rectified the problem much sooner, very few, if any, would be prosecuted and the numbers would be minimal, as well as being resolved back in 2000's. The current state of affairs is wholly down to PO and Govt.(Labour, Lib Dems/Tory).
The head of Fujitsu was Michael Keegan The husband of Gillian Keegan the Secretary of State of Education !!!!
@@davidpearson243 The PO Horizon deal was originally negotiated and was being developed by ICL, which was taken over in Fujitsu in 1999 at the start of the Horizon roll out. The problems with the Horizon software surfaced in 2005 when the prosecutions started. At that point it was likely that Fujitsu had no further liability. You could probably count on the fingers of one hand how many companies worldwide could provide the sort of software packages necessary so that any exclusion from the bidding process would leave very few tendering companies. In this instance Sir Ed Davey carries a huge responsibility as he was the PO minister at the height of the period of prosecutions and he certainly knew about all the question marks that hung over the Horizon software - he has kept a very low profile on this.
BTW Gillian Keegan has only been an MP since 2017 and Secretary of State for Education since 2022, which substantially post dates the PO scandal main events and therefore has probably no relevance.
I agree. The Fujitsu Ltd company who created Horizon; the PostMaster General who was in charge when it was installed and any associates to do with the failure not only of the system but the failure on recognition of the fault. All should pay the compensation including Davey OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET!
And Adam Crozier.
Too bloody right that the public should not pick up the tab for this atrocity, Those managers who set this all up should be stripped of all their assets not the public.
Judges, Investigators, MP’s, Solicitors, Post Office board and staff, Fujitsu board and staff should ALL be in jail for this! Yet not ONE of them is, the UK should take a very long hard look at itself for this scandal is the perfect example of the country it has become.
A very corrupt one
When will we find out the real truth about COVID and where it really came from
Judges? And why is that then?
@@tomjones8715 Because people were sentenced with little to no evidence, for instance there was no evidence at all of where the money they were accused of stealing went to. They were sentenced on the word of the Post Office investigators and lawyers and receipts they were forced to sign to keep their jobs. Hence why when their convictions were quashed the Judges who did so slammed the wrongful convictions. There was zero independent evidence provided in the cases. One case went on for three years and the women wrongly being convicted states her Horizon keypad was faulty, she had a couple of cases I believe which should have quashed the trial as no keypad was provided as evidence, only 'experts', it wasn't till three years later in another court case the Judge demanded to know where was the keypad, and the Post Office lawyer had to admit it was sent of to be 'repaired and re-programmed', despite they claiming their was nothing wrong with it, the Judge threw the case out instantly then on lack of evidence. You should look into it.
The establishment don't want to see 'people like us' in jail.
The government should demand Fujitsu pay the compensation. Ed Davey's attitude to his constituents sounded pretty shameful. He must stand down!
Ed Daveys is a lying prat
After 48 years in IT, mainly recovering failed major IT projects, this doesnt supprise me, as so many IT projects are badly run, and companies using suppliers dont know that they are responsible for implementing buggy and faulty solutions. What is different in this case is the Post Office arrogance in privately prosecuting inocent people, rather than own up to thier own miss management.
Jail time for the board who oversaw this. Pay back their bonuses and share options.
And houses, cars, investments, assets, pension pots, holiday homes etc.
We all know who should compensate....... she wears an inappropriate 'dog-collar' and was given a golden hand shake of £2.5M bonus when she quit
I don’t understand why there was not an audit trail for each Post Office.
why didnt someone put 2 and 2 together and realise somethings wrong here
I watched this interveiw toby joned played the part brilliantly
who the hell certified this faulty system as ready for use in financial control ? Was it ever audited? (apparently not)
Fujitsu should be held financially liable for this fiasco, along with the Post Office itself - compensation should be paid by those two corporations, NOT by British taxpayers !
A company was going to be employed to audit the whole situation but Vennells put a stop to it!
The system was commission by the DWP and rejected before being implemented as it failed testing due to a fair number of faults, The Post Office took it on at a greatly reduced price. Faults were identified soon after the system was rolled out nationally. Hands should of been raised then, the system pulled and the faults rectified.
Agreed! Take it out of Ed Davey's pay and pension pot as well as that woman who was CEO.
Yea! With that authority not only do they get a nice paycheck but they get the responsibility!
Agreed but who was the last Minister who resigned because of a cock up in his department??? Carrington in 1982 is the last I remember@@adamhuffman3354
they destroyed my brother and his family
I'm so terribly sorry to hear that, the entire story is appalling. That the people responsible for this are not in jail is a further affront to all the people who suffered at their hands.
The Post Office was wholly owned by the Government and therefore any money "returned" would be shown as profit in the accounts, would have gone to the Government. The Government who got this money SHOULD be made to repay it.
That's still us the general public you Muppet. 😂
Crozier and Vennals should their assets frozen. He came to Royal Mail... caused havoc and left the company in such a state it was subsequently sold and has not been able to recover.. the man is a disgrace
I don't believe any of the companies under the Royal Mail/Post Office umbrella company have ever recovered from Croziers "leadership", they have been presided over by so many of his ilk since his tenure, all of them have done such an awful job I wouldn't let them run a bath let alone a major corporation.
Now he heads BT. And BT are trying to remove landline telephones from elderly people, who are scared of not having a phone line in an emergency.
Enquiry. What a great way of kicking this whole sorry episode further down the line. Ridiculous.
What about Adam Crozier??? He was involved in this before Vennells but seems to have become invisible!!!
Went on to become the Chief Executive of ITV.
Waiting for the enquiry to finish!! That will take years, with those involved pocketing high salaries, bonuses, index linked pensions, you name it. In the meantime the victims will continue to wait for justice. It just stinks.
People who have faith in justice don't understand that it's a power game, right or wrong has nothing to do with the outcome.
The little people have no power so it's game over for them.
It's the government responsibility to repay and compensate the sub-postmasters, and then sue Fijutsu.
No, the taxpayer shouldn't, but they will. Because this will be quietly covered up and the public have short memories as we drift from disaster to disaster.
Cornz38, that is the real problem with this scenario, because of the TV coverage the public have it in their minds , given the government tactics of delay and obfuscation they know that if they sit on this and drag it out the public will be bombarded with other news items and their attention will shift to other concerns leaving the PO and government to do as they often do and settle for as little as possible both in cash payments and clearing the names and reputations of the wrongly accused.
The 'Government' has no money, it all comes from the taxpayer.
When will this stop ?, why should the tax payer keep paying for idiotic government messes
Make the plc owners pay back every penny because they benefitted from the money plus compensation.
So sad for all of the people involved , such a criminal act by the CORPORATE UK .
Adam Crozier CEO (moved on to FA) friend of Tony + Gordon...Horizon private contractors for the government....why no justice for those whose lives ruined???....the general public are thick as mince and so easily gaslighted by people like this lying by omission
Adam Crozier moved on to ITV after the Post Office. Perhaps check your facts before calling the general public "thick as mince".
Justice Delayed is Justice Denied!
Justice like democracy is increasingly becoming a myth ..
government needs to find a way to pay for all the illegal surfers they house in high end condos 😂
Problem is taxpayer will pay for it. And not company or government Minsters, or post office big wigs.
As the uk legal system seems pants. A celebrity can get millon in damages who are millionaires etc. Any normal person wrongful charged seem uphill and unfair.
Fumigation caused the problem by not admitting the faults they should pay all compensation
The CEO of the Post Office must be stripped of all assets, their pension, the CBE and banned from holding any senior management position for life.
Unfortunately that's the way it always happens, the taxpayers picks up the bills and the ones who cause the problems get away scot free, it happens in the NHS and at the BBC, more people should be helded accountable for their wrong actions.
The rich will look after their own. Nothing will happen.
Yet again the tax payer will have to come to the rescue just like the banks
Watching the Select Committee it came out where the money went to...........The PO included IT ALL into their annual profits, which ended up as a SPECIAL BONUS payment to ALL BOARD MEMBERS, WHICH THE SAME BOARD MEMBERS APPROVED !!!!!!
It's absolutely appalling.
Starmer was the Director of Public Prosecutions at the time no? Seems someone needs to question him.
I cannot believe this is still going on. This came out years ago and people knew that the Fujitsu system was the cause and that the post masters innocent.
It's just astonishing that people are only now receiving money and the police finally investigating potential criminality by those at the top of the post office and at Fujitsu.
Yet again, corporate failing and the unlawfully obtained “profits” that those heading that corporation benefitted from results in the tax payer making the compensation payments.
All those involved (there are records of who was on the board, and all of the “investigators” will be named in the court documents) should be prosecuted and NAMED in the press so society can know what they did. Take their homes, their freedom, their pensions and savings (as they did to those who were implicated) and only then will this begin to make amends for their wrongdoing.
Until corporation board members are held personally accountable (especially private organisations where the only shareholder is the UK Government) there will be no change.
it is not compensation it is the money the post office stole from the sub postmaster and the people they know who were responsible for this and hope they get jail sentences for a very long time
Pay it from the reclaimed pensions, assets & investments of Paula & all her board colleagues. BTW - She should be 'removed' by her ‘Church’ - they should be utterly ashamed by her unchristian behaviour, lying & double standards.
I’ve just started to watch the drama on itv but I can see it’s going to make me angry, how was this dragged out for so long without the true villains prosecuted, the moment horizon helplines denied there being problems elsewhere should’ve kicked in an investigation, the post office bosses at that time who knew what they’d done and just let good people suffer for so many years should be in prison and be stripped of their wealth.
The money should be paid by everyone who never ever questioned the system when they could have. A % share should be worked out and taken from their pay packets until the amount awarded out of taxpayers money is returned - with 8% interest per year.
First tax payer is funding the supposed stolen money, then the tax payer is funding the compensation, i guess that is what is called a win win for the post office
The Child maintenance service are needing this type of scrutiny
After this scandal , let's have a program on the solar panel farms , water companies , the list goes on. GB morally bankrupt..
Yes! ‘We’ should pay the compensation for it. ‘We’ did farkawl to stand up for these people when it was all made public. Our taxes have paid for the likes of Johnson to have fancy wallpaper, Sunak to swan about in a helicopter, and the Royals to have a life of luxury…
There are two lots of money the post masters/mistresses should get…..first, repayment of the money taken from them or paid by them to cover non existent shortfalls. Second, compensation for the damage they have suffered financially, to their reputations, and for suffering caused by the post office’s lies
Plus interest.
Why is everyone calling it 'compensation' that's not the case at all. The money was stolen from innocent working class people, and at the time, the Post office was well aware of the computer error, but telling individuals 'you're the only one'! Absolutely disgraceful what these poor souls went through. Lives were lost through suicide, people were made bankrupt, many were jailed and marriages failed because of the lies told by the people at the top of this organisation. They should be paid back every penny owed and, then, provided with very large compensation pay-outs!! If the government can send money abroad and pay £8M daily for migrants to be housed in hotels, then they and we, SHOULD NOT complain about the amount of compensation they receive AFTER they have been fully reimbursed....😡
Agreed
Prison sentence
INDIVIDUAL MANAGEMENT MUST PAY REPARATIONS TO THOSE FALSELY ACCUSED.
I don’t understand why when the postmasters won why wasn’t
they, awarded court and legal costs.
I am MORE then happy for my taxes to pay compensation thanks. I would MUCH rather it go to the Post Masters then the skiving Junior Doctors pay rise!!!
You think a fully trained and qualified, "junior" doctor, earning £15 an hour for a gruelling 70-90 hour week is skiving?
@@ianyoung7077 I think a junior doctor being paid 50 grand a year plus private work after having training for free paid for by the tax payer, standing on a picket line for several days IS skiving, oh but perhaps they are doing private work to double their wages instead of their actual job so hey maybe they are not skiving…
Unless the people from the post office that knew and caused the problems are jailed and lose their wealth these sort of things will carry on happening
post office should pay it back
I'm sorry Mr Scully, there's nothing complex about it. That's the usual refrain from corrupt politicians.
Apply for compensation, what a joke. it should all be proactive and at the cost of the post office and fujitsu. Disgusting.
The money that was taken was never stolen... it ended up in PO profits....... that means the taxpayers have inadvertently benefitted... so yes that money should be paid back.....and it will be tax payers' money.
Then take money from the executives who either initiated prosecutions and lies or turned a blind eye.
To the extent that this was caused by inappropriate legal actions then the government is on the hook. That the taxpayer might not like this may well have political consequences. This privatisation was an act of the Cameron/Clegg coalition government, although Horiizon started when it was in public ownership, under Blair. No doubt Sunak will seek to lay the blame on Blair, and Labour.
The Post Office is still a nationalised company to this day - it's wholly owned by UK Government (i.e. you and me). It was the Royal Mail that was privatised - different organisation not involved in this.
It's down to the PO to compensate and apologise to their victims. It's then down to the PO to deal with Fujitsu and get reimbursed and compensated. For those who were aware of the issues and turned a blind eye and did nothing whilst people were prosecuted etc, they need to be jailed.
Compensation must come from the vast bonuses of the executives over the years they knew what was happening and DID NOTHING!
The post office management should pay the compensation .
PO Directors' pensions should be financing compensation.
Scully should be one of those sharing the dock.
Who knows where the compensate money went, there could be corruption in this.
Compensation should be massive. Destroyed lives destroyed families people took their own lives. A disgrace
Some of the 'innocent' people has since past, the compensation should go to the relatives.
The money should come from the company and the pockets of these over-payed incompetent so-called managers, they should not be getting away scot-free.
Put the CBE accepting crank in prison for the entire amount of time the postmasters would have done, She KNEW innocent people were going to jail.
All the money should come from the bonuses that were probably paid to directors unbelievable.
Criminals in power
The conservative government should fund the sub postmaster's compensation FUND OUT OF TORY FUNDS.
Where's all the money gone? Ask the Post Office Executives that defrauded the government and paid themselves massive bonuses for prosecuting innocent people.
TAXPAYERS WILL NOT PAY COMPENSATION........... UNDER uk LAW, 'the polluter must pay', in thIs case it WILL BE THE BOARDS OF THE PO & FUGITSU WHO WILL BE FORCED TO PAY ALL COMPENSATION/COSTS, ...The lies a deceit created by the PO & Fugitsu clearly amount to crimes created to protect the 'BRANDS' as described by vennels & van den bogart while under OATH & questioning,
So, we have here clear case's of Perjury, also, the lies, which were Perverting the course of Justice,...... both have custodial sentences attached, 5-15 years & forfeiture of valuables & property under the Proceeds of Crime Act........huge amounts of money that will compensate the subpostmasters & pay the costs.
Why is there a Royal Mail logo in the thumbnail?
It really gauls that the taxpayer has to find this money. I fully support that substantial compensation is due. Fujitsu should be funding this.
..
All "Service" provider industries should be renamed. They stopped serving their customers the moment they acquired shareholders, turning the focus solely into profit for them and automatically for themselves as part of the process. The whole concept of having shareholders needs to be replaced with something akin to the service industries they used to be, there to serve their customers, who USE the service they provide as SERVICE PROVIDERS, and away from serving their stocks and shares and share holders. The entire system is gross and distorted and needs to be wholly reversed back to what it was..
All senior post office personnel involved in this scandal must have their bonuses for the last decade clawed back. If they lose their pensions and houses to pay that back then so be it. Make it happen now! Government ministers that failed to oversee this must resign and pay compensation personally. Do not let these criminals off the hook!
Ed Davy, should be made to explain his actions,…or rather inactions, rest assured people will still vote for him, irrespective of his behaviour
Don't expect tories or labour to get justice for these people ' nigel farage is the man he'd get justice.
The shareholders should pay! The sole shareholder is the UK Government which is us. That is why we have to pay.
Take it out of the Westminster building budget
The politicians who knew and did nothing should foot the bill..
Srnd the judges and solictors to jail.
Post office made profits of 120 million while she was CEO. Interesting
Is there a UK version of the 'Punisher' to go after the state or guility PO employed people to extract the ultimate revenge these people who suffered unfairly deserve?
An Edward Woodward type maybe?
Wow, its just never ending scams for us.
They should get the money from fushitsu
Who are the shareholders?
Who?
Post office is a government run entity. So I'm clueless why the taxpayer shouldn't pay.
Absolutely not, it’s not for the taxpayer to put right what the post office and the company of the computer software that was flawed and the government who treated the situation like a problem that would disappear if it was ignored ,these problems are not the taxpayers fault we had nothing to do with it we appear to be first inline to pick up the flack for all financial problems created by the powers that be, ENOUGH the tax payers are having a hard enough time keeping a roof over their heads. Well done itv for providing us with such an amazing programme ,and getting these innocent people exonerated and recompense for the horrific false accusations made against them
How can the Establishment possibly compensate a family for the avoidable and untimely loss of a loved one? “The Establishment” needs to erect a monument to mark this atrocity and all the names of those denied justice - because it came far too late - given special mention. It should be erected in front of the Post Office’s Headquarters to remind everyone who works there how much they owe to those who were wrongly accused for the sake of the Establishment’s reputation.
All the money that was taken from them ended up in profits
Send the bastards to jail both in government and royal mail. The tax payer will not pay for this.
Why aren’t they prosecuting the company who made the Horizon computer???!!! Fujitsu!!!
Strange since post office became privatised scandal became norm so really tax payers should not compensate victim , so there fore chair holder should compensate the victim
Compensation must be paid. However, the Post Office was run by the Conservative government, so does that mean the government uses our tax money to pay compensation? If so we have yet another reason to blame the government for mismanagement or a huge scale.
The cover picture shows Royal Mail. The Post Office and Royal Mail are not the same organisation. Post Office is government owned. Royal Mail is a plc, shareholder owned. They are entirely separate.
The Post Office should be prosecuted for the lives they have ruined. The exec are and should be held responsible.
so before the Horizon system they use a traditional system. How come, all of a sudden, hundreds of postmasters became corrupt? The incompetence and corruption clearly lies elsewhere.
why have Fujitsu come out of this unscathed?
The question is who got all the money the post office owners were accused of taking ?
If Fujitsu do not agree to pay their share and do so immediately, once the final amount has been calculated, then as tax payer I would be more than happy for that money to be paid by us tax payers with one condition. That we then sue Fujitsu with the best lawyers money can buy and those accountable face prosecution.
Fujitsu should not be able to delay any victims receiving their due compensation.
If we the public do not take a stand now, we are leaving ourselves open to corporations doing what they have done and continue to do. Treat hard work people with contempt. We need to send a message and do so very loudly and clearly. This has to include imprisonment for those ultimately responsible.
And that’s not just the bosses, the boards need to be held accountable.
The post office board would have had oversight, yet personally I’ve not heard a single one of their names mentioned.
What has "we aren't to blame" got to do with anything? If a doctor makes an error "we aren't to blame" but the NHS still has to stump for it, if the DPP puts someone away wrongly and compensation is due on a quashed conviction, "we aren't to blame" but the released person should still be compensated - the officials of the DPP, the prosecuting lawyers or the judge or jury members shouldn't fear having to pay up. The treasury received the proceeds from all of the court cases so the treasury has to stump for restitution. Sure sue Fijuitsu by all means & criminally pursue the executives but just get these people properly recompensed and pubicly & loudly cleared pronto
😂😂😂😂 the tax payers shouldn’t have to foot the bill. BUT THEY WILL. Does anyone really think the multi billion£ company bosses will go to jail