Having some experience with the G3 in my army days, I can tell that it was never intended to be fired in full auto, it was just a feature that was added for "you never know" reasons. The full auto feature isn't over-exaggerated that much, it's just that the player needs to counter-act the recoil manually. As in real-life "recoil management" is a skill that needs to be practiced. Nevertheless, let's not forget that the G3 is a weapon of an older era. Lastly, although the firing rate is higher, the mg-3 is much heavier (11.2kg) than the G3 (4.38 kg), so it's reasonable that the gun won't go up as fast. The unrealistic part is that the gun is still in the player's hands 😀
You can't control the recoil because its too intense. its impossible to control the playtest recoil because they have coded systems in that make it totally random along with the scope sway. There is no 'control' to be had with this new update.
honestly comparing the G3 to an MG3 is not entirely fair as the MG42 may fire the same round but it is very heavy and long (wich due to torque makes it feel even heavier). Ive held both and the weight difference is substantial. Even with double the fire rate i have a hard time seeing that as a good comparison.
Agreed. The MG3 I'd a giant block of metal, where as the G3 has a lot of polymer furniture to lighten it up. It's barely isn't as heavy since it's not expected to whip rounds as fast or for as long as the MG3. That being said, I have to agree with Moi. While the depiction in game might be faithful to the real weapon, it's still a game. It has to be enjoyable, and if one faction has a bucking bronco of a standard issue rifle, people won't wanna play them.
@@AnonOmis1000 i agree, i think something needs to be done, either make everything else that fation has better (asymmetrical warfare idea, wich is a shitty idea now that i think of it) or just make the G3 a little less..... like a mule lol
Yeah. Weight is a huge factor in recoil. Surprised he did not consider that. The MG3 weighs over twice as much as a G3. Having said that, the G3 does kick too much. Possibly even more than it would for a real soldier.
This guy shoots and gets it. G3 on full auto IRL is unusable / border line unsafe. A heavy m4 (Ie: m27 feels like it has no recoi) The guns are literally 60 years apart from the same company. If it’s realistic, it should be 60 years better tech.
I know the G3 from my time in Bundeswehr, I shoot it it a lot live... it kick you hard in the shoulder (if you are unprepared), but not what i see in the video. In RL the G3 is very smooth IF you know how to shoot it; and if oyu got a proper training on it. Like MG42/MG3 , if you got a proper training on it, you get used to the kick in the shoulder and you will get your hits. Also, G3 is a cold war weapon, we called it "Battlerifle" its bulky, heavy and yeah no comparison with modern short barrel stuff. A G3 you use on a traditional battlefield scenario and for example not in CQC against short barrel stuff like sub AKSU's or such... This weapon had it's on designed scenario what it is developed for, ya you can say in day back we used it also with panzer grenadiers to storm a villager or something on manouver, but there was better also weapons at this time that was better for things like this... cold war gun... i loved it, the caliber was meant to "take down" what you shoot. and it did. But that recoil i saw here in the vid, i kick up yeah but this is lol... no way buddy. Sorry for my bad english :(
@@MajinLiveTV Having never shot either gun with military cartridges, it's hard to say. Barrel length and balance is a also a factor. I think the mg3 would have a more forward center G, which would also help with muzzle climb.
@@MajinLiveTV paradoxically, no, weapons with RoF above 550 to below 700 (G3 has around 600) have the worst recoil. You want something either below or above that range. Forgotten Weapons had a good episode on that. Basically with high enough rate of fire individual recoiling rounds are felt more like a constant pullback force than repeating instances of kick back, making the final pattern of recoil easier to control than weapons with lower RoF (that 550-700 range). Therefore despite the rate of fire being extremely high, MG3 and MG42 are very controllable and accurate machine guns. The reason for keeping lower rate of fire in some guns is one more of ammo conservation, not controllability.
@@MajinLiveTV I'm speaking in real life context. I never played the game myself but I love watching it. I couldn't speak for what you players experience.
@everythingphil9376 haha I understand. I feel a lot of people love the G3 in squad but personally I hate it. After that first round I can't hit the side of a barn at 100m with it. Might as well let me hip fire the MG3.
I'm glad you walked your comments back! Seems all to rare that people admit to a bad take and you really earned my respect for that considering these devs don't have to overhaul the game. Especially where the current standard of gaming is sitting.
Speaking of which, has Karmakut ever admitted he was wrong abt playtest #2? I remember him making fun of Squad fans and then it turned out he was wrong and suppression really was bugged.
@@uncannyvalley3190yeah, he never apologises...in fact, he doubles down on the bad takes he makes and becomes a jerk to everyone that disagrees...just look at his comment section where he ends up replying to people and cusses people out
The thing I'm worried about most is the performance. I just got a new PC, but it still would not be a good direction to drop Squad performance even more. They haven't fixed the ghosting issues for years, so if the performance does ultimately get worse, I doubt they'll ever fix that either.
Crazy that this game is so old and never really balanced looks and performance. I backed it on Kickstarter and played the closed alpha, and I've never really been satisfied with the performance. And now it's drastically worse? RIP.
@@porfirioErodriguez Vid from gamers nexus 2 days ago covered a bunch of stuff done by LTT. This included posting bad data from testing (like 230% off the actual value), sketchy testing results where they recommend products from companies that LTT is partnered with even though their tests showed that other products outperformed them, trashing a mouse saying it was not smooth but didn't realise the mouse had plastic film over the base. The biggest controversy was them trashing a two person startup's prototype and saying it was a trash product that no-one should buy when they willfully tested it with incompatible parts and then refusing to retest it because the $500 in employee wages was too much, then after the company wanted the prototype back LTT instead auctioned it off at their expo. Final part is that a former female employee has come forward with allegations of a very toxic work environment with leaked audio from a HR meeting that occurred shortly after her departure somewhat corroborating what she said. It has been a shitshow over there for the past two days Original commenter is probably referring to the fact that after all the backlash from the community, Linus did a rushed forum post where he attacked gamers nexus, played the victim and refused to apologise which I guess OP was trying to contrast to Moi owning up to getting it wrong in his previous vid about the playtest
The G3 IRL is a fairly lightweight rifle firing a full power round. If definitely jumps around a bit, but from what I've seen from this playtest the recoil does need to be tamed down some. Maybe they can keep the magnitude of the recoil about the same but allowing for faster recovery of the sight back to the target would fix it, of thats possible.
I get that the G3 is supposed to have more recoil irl and that it does more damage to compensate but if the recoil is that bad I'd need it to do 100 damage to the torso for me to even consider playing it.
I have a Galil Ace in .308 with a 1-6x optic, very comparable to a G3, and it doesnt recoil at all like this. To be fair, the Galil has a very nice muzzle brake, but they need to tone down the muzzle flip on the G3 for sure.
@@crazypath573 the G3 is known to have terrible recoil impulse. because it is a roller delayed gas blowback it has a very punchy recoil impulse making full auto fire useless
@@Fatallydisorganizedit absolutely doesn’t have terrible recoil impulse and roller doesn’t cause terrible recoil impulse. A 7.62 shouldered and fired full auto is hard to manage but the G3 is very easy to fire and very accurate.
I dont feel like you were overly harsh on your last video. Sure, the tests are just that tests, but as much as they are for technical testing, they are also to gather feedback. Keep doing what you do, as long as you articulate your issues and dont just rant for the sake of it, the devs can use the information as they best see fit. There is an important distinction between just being negative, and giving feedback, and I feel like you are well on the good side of that.
Performance was the biggest issue for me this go around, I get it it’s my fault for being poor lmao but my friend gave me a gaming laptop that’s pretty damn good. I still struggled just to aim properly on maps like harju and black coast
Sometimes my poor 1660ti won't even load Black coast or Harju the first time lol. They have had a performance issue for a while now. So I automatically hate those 2 maps.
Close engagements felt extremely frustrating if you have a scope. There should be a mechanism to hold your weapon at the high ready, similar to 6 Days in Falujah. And, yes, the weapon swaying around like it's not locked to your shoulder when ADSing is so artificially bad, it's like these soldiers are holding a weapon for the first time. If they wanted to tone down the amount of "running and gunning" they need to punish THAT style of gameplay. How? By raising the stakes for dying. People just burn through tickets nowadays, relying on individual skill rather than teamplay. That's the main thing that's wrong with Squad, not really the weapon mechanics.
Squad players when they can't Robin Hood their bullets into each other anymore RECOIL IS TOO INTENSE, YOU MEAN I HAVE TO FORCE MY MOUSE DOWN MANUALLY??? I THOUGHT MY SOLDIER WAS A BIG MANLY MAN WHO CAN DO EVERYTHING FOR ME
MG3 weighs more and uses the same round as the g3, the mg3 should rise slower than the g3 if you're going to be realistic. I understand why the complaint though, I think g3 should have either a buff to damage or nerf to recoil to make it playable since it is the main rifle for mea and some sacrifices need to be made for the sake of balance
Honestly i would rather see the MEA get completely deleted from the game and replaced with Israel or even an Iraq faction. Also the G3 needs to be replaced with the FN FAL or Galil
@@bobsmith7916 if I was playing with a vr headset and controls sure, not a mouse and keyboard. It's realistic to leave my gun facing the wall of the alley I just peaked?
I think the G3 needs one of two things. A) Make it do something like 75-85 damage to the torso so it can two shot limbs. Or B) lower the recoil to match live so it still noticeably kicks more without it being comical.
@@bobsmith7916 Idk about "take off a limb" but if it hits in the right spot it will shatter a bone which effectively achieves the same goal. I think one shot limb for any gun is too much though lmao
My biggest problem with squad is how stable your aim is without a bipod on scoped rifles. Absurdly unrealistic. Machine gunners are punished for not using a bipod, but scoped rifles you can 360 quickscope across the map. Shooting farther than 100 yards with any gun that isn't bipod'd or using some surface for stability is immersion breaking.
Definitely worried about performance. Wasn’t aware it had been an issue at all during all the play tests you guys have done. Just news to me. I have an 2080Ti and I’m worried.
When this release, can you do an updated best graphics settings? Seems like those effects, pip sights will have an impact on performance. Also your last guide help me to get rid of blurry AA
Solid take and kudos for changing your mind, way too rare unfortunately! In terms of the G3, it actually seems fine as it is but considering it's a full-on, old-school Battle Rifle it should 1-shot with Upper Torso shots.
Thanks good we have mod like MEE to keep us play this game because ico is just random fight, no skill need just dumb gunfights in a FPS 😒the gameplay is bad, I miss vanilla faction gameplay but I can play because it’s just make my want to break my PC because of this RETARD GUNFIGHTS!!! if I need to do a list of what is worst in this update in going to cite them : in suppress the blur is to consistent and unrealistic, better would be a tunnel vision and you can see a minimum what is in the middle of your screen, went you suppress you can respond you need to spray and pray like a blind man all the fucking map, I finding myself in 10 meters fight impossible for my and my opponent to hit ourselves because of this dumb mechanic of off-center to much my sight went suppressed , I can understand this off-center mechanic but not for 10 meters!!!! 100 meters I can understand… Need to be tweaked and reduce by 75% , next the vertical recoil is perfect but the horizontal is way to much, even more in speed shooting (I can understand but need to be reduced a little), spaghetti arms in hip fire!! just why so much? went ICO was announced I think it’s going to be like in insurgents sandstorm 😆, your weapon is still in the middle of you screen but offset I little went turning, but in Squad even a little movement offsets your gun from 30+% from the middle of your screen it’s ridiculous, should for good gameplay not more then 6~7%, and in big turn move not more then 15~20%, for the leaning mechanic the body of the character should body lean more like irl but scope leans less like in ICO with for door crossings just the upper part of the body exposed like in Arma3 because the lean is useless in games right now but the old spam leaning mechanic was a issue too because of the leaning animation bing all of the body to much lean, so we need to be able to lean with all weapons but with a new lean animation of the character similar to Arma3, but lean speed need to be mix between V5 to fast, and V6 to slow to have a enjoying and realist CQB gameplay, the PIP scope is fantastic I love it and the "F" key to change magnification is awesome 🤩and can be enjoyed at 100% in MEE mod , I don’t talk about everything but for now I play Post Scripture because make me feel playing Squad Prime ….. V5 so, and I just wait Operation Harst Dorstop to be like Squad and better in 1or 3 years and of course MME because I’m addicted to Squad, I’m so disappointed V6 have the potential to be one of the best and most realistic update of squad and OWI betrayed a big part of is dedicated community and I don’t going to buy they skins because I don’t want to support this studio until they make they real fan happy
All of the weapon recoil in this shit makes me mad. As someone who has access to these weapons and has shot more than my fair share in select fire and semi auto, I can tell you that the recoil on these is WAY over tuned by developers who only think they know how something performs.
Primary objective of the playtests was to evaluate balance and feel, I imagine they will address the optimization and performance last before they do final builds.
I quit paying squad after 3401.2hrs of playtime. Performance is absolute SHIT. Update after update favors fidelity over performance. Some great people I used to play with cant even play anymore due to performance. And no is it not acceptable for almost decade old game. My rig (5800x3d 2080ti 32gigs of ram). Trash game status 😥
I don't think you were 'wrong' in your last vid - harsh, yes, but I agree that it's just kind of poor form and disrespectful to your community to not do the bare minimum to at least make sure the compiled client is playable before distributing it out to your public fans and testers. Regardless, very happy to see its already improved, and continues on the right track. I'm really looking forward to these changes making it to a stable release on mainline. On the other hand, even though I'm on a 3070 Ti (and 8700K), I'm also really hoping they can find some ways to optimize graphics and CPU load, judging by your footage, lol. I think I'm roughly using your same graphics settings from last year, except at 1440p instead of 1080p, and it's already a bit choppy depending on the map and scenario. I'd hate to lose much more performance. I'm not sure I feel like this is a game that /should/ require top-of-the-line hardware just to play at reasonable settings.
there are few videos with soldiers firing weapons full auto, its nowhere near as dramatic as here in squad, they can easily control the weapon and send the bullets in somehow one direction instead of being blasted by recoil and send bullets to heaven
This just might be me, but I don't find gunfights similar to 1:25 fun, realistic or enjoyable. Ico should be about stoping someone who you're shooting at 150+ meters away from getting out of sprint and 1 tapping you. Suppression they implemented is great at this, you can actually pin someone down with suppressing fire. As for sway and recoil, it's something that should start mattering at 50+ meters when in single fire, also you should be able to use controlled auto till 20m, and maybe short bursts till 50m. They should also implement the point fire mechanic for all the guns and add a mount mechanic similar to mw 2019 that gives you 20-30% recoil reduction of a bipod.
There is still way too much wiggle on the weapon when you ADS. Do they realize that rifles have a butt stock that goes into your shoulder? I am an advent shooter and I know you don't shoot rifles without supporting it in your shoulder. There is always three points of contact, both hands and YOUR SHOULDER!!!
I think the G3 could lessen it's recoil just a tad. Maybe a 10% reduction at most. BUT the gun needs to have incredible range and at the very least a 1 shot to torso at those long ranges. Shot to arms and legs should be crippling and would need a bandage asap or esle you'd bleed out in say 10 seconds. It'll also automatically enhance the supression the MEA has as the enemy factions would instinctively hide and take cover when they hear a G3 going off as they know, one shot and they'd likely die.
"making me pull the trigger on finally upgrading my PC", so this upgrade is promoting e-waste and carbon emissions. Play BattleBit Remastered instead if you care about the environment.
I really don't understand how tf people enjoy those sway changes. your character, who probably spent half of his life in shooting ranges and mil camps just can't hit a damn shit from 5 meters and further, you have to stabilize for almost half a minute and just pray for enemy to not leave your area, and if you're being supressed at the moment, well good luck to even survive this.
Never gets old when a RPG round has no effect on a helicopter. These fucking things are just tanks in the air. I hope attack helicopters are never implemented with this in mind.
IMO: the weapon sway is just insane. It’s cranked to such an unbelievable degree that it makes firefights just full auto spray battles and a toss up as to who wins. Trained soldiers believe it or not can absolutely hold their weapons steady even with low stamina and while under fire. Suppression shouldn’t make my soldier paint figure 8’s in the clouds same with low stamina.
The irony of a game that is trying to be realistic is that sometimes it will have to sacrifice realism. The recoil and weapon spray being exaggerated forces you to play with your squad more, and makes twitch shooting and lone wolfing much less viable. It also makes sprinting around and being overly mobile less viable and that forces proper squad tactics and movement to be effective. It also kinda helps with a more realistic feel to suppression and support fires. Is it realistic? No. Does it create a more realistic dynamic to combat? Yes.
@@pluemas I disagree respectfully. Playing with my squad doesn’t get rid of my unbearable weapon sway, neither does it get rid of theirs. Gunfights still just result in switching your gun to full auto and pissing bullets at people because you can’t see, and your gun is wildly inaccurate due to uncontrollable sway. LMG players get to have a field day because of their bipod, but riflemen are currently forced to either crouch or lay prone, not move, hold shift to steady their aim, and still wobble all over the place. There needs to be a balance between extending gunfights with a suppression system that doesn’t render your riflemen completely useless
@@JuiceBoxHero98 riflemen aren't useless, theyre the mobile element to a fire and manoeuvre group. Full auto, realistically, should be limited to infantry support weapons and room clearing. Single aimed shots are still completely viable, as is moving under fire and repositioning. The fact you have negatives to aiming whilst suppressed or sprinting around is an element of the game that you should adapt to. The easiest way to do that is by having team members cover each other, and by making smart use of your machine gunner and marksmen. This change makes both of those more viable and brings them more inline with how they are used in real life. If you're not a fan of fire and manoeuvre and slower paced gameplay, then I could see how this might be frustrating. However, there are plenty of games that cater to that style of rifleman focused twitch shooting operator fantasy and Squad has (from the outset) not been aiming to do that.
Having been one of those trained soldiers and also having been competition shooting, you're not correct. An M16/M4 for example while you qualify with targets up to 300m, the accurate range on the move/or under active fire is less then 25m, and by accurate I mean just hitting the target. The only time you see anyone getting longer ranged on the move shots with any consistency is in competition where while the shooters are under stress of competition, that is it. Oh, an by the way most military members are actually pretty bad shots and they usually get absolutely schooled by civilian competitive shooters. Standard military tactics are entirely built around this, we don't bum rush forward as a large group shooting on a move, we bound elements alternating suppressive fire to reduce effective counter fire. One fireteam shoots while stationary while the other one moves forward, then they switch roles. We do this because getting shot at severely reduces your accuracy, upwards of 4 to 10 times your grouping size at that range.
@@nicolivoldkif9096 I concur with this statement, it's accurate to my experience as well. Sway and recoil may be exaggerated in game, but it's done to force the player to the effective ability level of a rifleman. This forces them to actually use the tactics you describe.
I don't think you were wrong. Yes it is a play test, but there still needs to be SOME quality control. Sure some things will be broken, that's what you're testing for, but if you can go into the gun range and see the broken animations with little effort, that's not acceptable.
I really hope that in the final release they utilize all of Unreal Engine's optimization tricks they honestly should even switch to UE5 after getting everything set and work on optimizing in UE5 they could utilize nanite along with Virtual textures to dynamically scale texture resolutions
I think ADSing is still a LITTLE too aggressively difficult to control recoil (particularly dealing with sight sway) but, otherwise I really liked what it's done for pacing and overall feeling. The G3 definitely feels nearly useless unless your burst firing from the hip or you've got the marksmen kit and a bipod.
Yea sight sway doesn't make sense either, since real shooters will immediately establish a cheek weld. It should almost immediately give you the sight picture, but have a few frames of hard sway, since it takes more time to adjust your aim than your eye.
@@Fiirow1 Yep. I get why they're doing it but it just seems a little too much at the moment. Overall all though it's definitely made squad to squad fights feel more intense and I do like that
@@OlderThanAverageGamer There should be a longer delay and reduced accuracy after a sprint, but they've added a really lazy implementation that besides being entirely wrong, also feels like shit.
I swear no one takes time to wait for things to settle, i've seen some people absolutely hammer OWI in a bad way, not constructive criticism, when they're trying to change for the better, that sht does not take a few days
The optimization was still sometimes a problem with normal squad, I have a I5-9400f and GTX 1660 and in some matches my FPS were like 30-50 (in other maps I got smooth fps, 60-80fps ish). I think it is gonna be a huge problem with this new Combat Overhaul Update. What should I upgrade first, my CPU or my GPU? Last time I tried to use a RX 6000 and squad performance was the worst xd.
I would say both equally, but the GPU could do with an upgrade first, but the CPU should definitely be done as well; mostly to keep a healthy load balance. If you have any familiarity in Overclocking, and have an actually good cooling system, then overclocking the CPU by just a small amount could help. At least, that's how i've been handling my Ryzen 3 1600X and my 4070 Ti being much difference in load. It actually causes stuttering when not Overclocked because of the load / timing differences, so keep that in mind
Rather than toning down the g3 recoil to what it is in game, what if they did it a little bit, but added a bipod to all g3s? that would turn the faction into one that relies on entrenching and defensive play
They don’t need bipods for defence etc. the way the G3 handles literally promotes people to sit back and not push because they are handicapped in cqb because all the other weapons out perform the g3 with their easier handling. The recoil / sway needs to be toned down for the mea because they’re hands down the worst faction as it stands. People will argue that the g3 is realistic however forget that there is lots of changes in the ico that are not realistic so for the sake of gameplay it needs to be improved otherwise there is no reason to eve play the faction
@@MrGlen1234567890 That IMO the missing piece is effect on target. At point blank a 556 is dumping 1150-1350 foot pounds of energy on target. A G3 sort of rifle is dumping about 2700 foot pounds of energy. Even assuming body armor rifle plates, getting slammed with a ton and a quarter of kinetic foot pounds of energy is going to mess up your aim (I have no idea why the US likes foot pounds over Joules but I don't speak joules). In squad, that is not happening. So going CQB with all semi auto with your G3 or heaven forbid full auto the deck is stacked against you. And the damage difference is shockingly low. But I am referring to default Squad and not whatever they got cooking. In reality, it is of course, not as simple as measuring foot pounds of energy... But in the game as it has been, G3 and even the Fal are balanced less than wonderful.
MEA should have good semi recoil keep the auto. G3 is roller delayed 308. Recoil is gonna be an issue with that operating system full auto, but semi should feel smooth. Agreed with performance, have a 1660Ti so not the most reliable source, but framerates became an issue when it came to loading. Seems like its based on view. Pip scopes were a little choppy when first shouldered but steadied out quickly. Once again it's probably something with how it loads the view.
I also have a2070 super and I have terrible performance. I figured out that it was all due to the sound quality. Set it to low and now I'm getting good frames on high settings.
They should stop adding blur overlays, instead of a black a much larger translucent arora around screen when being suppressed but never too much as too blind imo. Minimal shake, pretty much as it already is in the game only for massive explosions. Explosions should deafen with special effect think of all of those action movies when that happens and it's slow mo. PIP optics are perfect. G3 overpowering recoil and iron sights are obvious glitches. Also notice rocks and debris in explosion 1:07 those should be real fragmentation that damage the player according to size and speed of fragment.
People really dont understand realistic weapon recoil in games. The G3 has a lot of recoil. Full auto with it is far too difficult for mostly everyone to manage in any effective capacity passed 10m without the proper sheer physical strength, body mass, and training. I own one of these weapons. Its incredibly difficult and took a lot of training and upgrades to the platform to manage the recoil and i'm 6'5 260lb in the military. The biggest things devs get wrong about recoil in games is the LMGs. LMGs have less recoil than assault rifles. Especially something like the M249 which fires the same round as the M4. The 5.56. The M249 weighs as much as 22lb. The M4 only weighs about 8lb. Even with bigger LMGs which fire 7.62, the recoil is going to be manageable enough to lay down very effective fire at 100-200 meters while standing. I have no idea why game devs treat LMGs like they are handheld .50 bmg beasts. They are just heavy af and difficult to lug around and maneuver with.
Almost everybody fkin hates the MEA cuz the G3 sucks, the recoil was bad enough on the SQUAD as it is, like you said. Makes no fkin sense to have a 7.62 that only does a littlebit more damage than the others rifles and you have to deal with all this unforgivable insane recoil is fkin madness, i hate MEA with all my heart cuz of this crap, they need to change it for good, i think if they did the 7.62 be fatal on the torso, a single shot fatal, that would balance things out, would be good enough for me. They need to add secundary scopes to the game, like a red dot on top of the ACOGs, in 2023 this is basic stuff c'mon, for crying out loud.
I really didnt like how hard it was to use the HAT/ LAT kit. even with full stamina and minimal movement, it was too extreme for my liking - other than that, everything 10/10 (expect the poor optimization ofc).
MG3 is more than twice, maybe even three times considering ammo weight, as heavy as G3 so that's why it's much more manageable. Heavy AR-15 derivative like this M27 with attachments would have almost no recoil
To play devil's advocate, G3 rifle auto vs support weapon auto... support weapon is much heavier esp with ammo load, therefore less recoil. Just for the sake of argument. (Yes I know one fires faster)
I can hardly tell who I'm shooting at as it is with my low settings due to my budget pc, so the worse performance along with the removal of the nametags while ADS that have been incredibly useful for me has me worried. don't wanna have to upgrade my pc for a single game.
My biggest issue with the rework is that weapon damage hasent changed. Theres no reason to use the G3, it does the same damage as the m4 but with way more recoil. I think the recoil for it is fine, but it needs to do way more damage. In my opinion the game needs a damage rework. This would be my way of fixing it. 4 body shots with 9mm to kill 2-3 body shots with 5.56 1-2 body shots with 7.62 1 body shot with 20mm +
yea I dunno why you were so critical of it. it was a playtest and it's obviously going to be incomplete, have issues, etc. if it like that on the initial release then yeah those criticisms would be warranted.
I think feedback for play tests is ultimately what the developers want, good or bad and so I think providing it to them in this way makes sense and reflects what we should look to do in play tests like these. It takes a lot to be more patient when it’s something your really passionate about so good on you moi ❤
its good! its bad.... its good! its bad.... its good! its bad.... its good! its bad.... its good! its bad.... its good! its bad.... yes this is how playtests work
Performance was so bad in the new version it was literally unplayable for me. I used to be able to run this game on high staying above 60 fps 98% of the time. Now I had 2 choices for this playtest. Run in DX11 and enjoy sub 40fps every time i scoped my rifle (yeah, i set PiP to 60 hz). Or run in DX12 and it runs pretty damn well until you move your head or get in a firefight, then everything micro-stutters to 10fps. This is with everything turned ALL THE WAY DOWN. What have they done to their game? "Performance improvements" every patch and every patch it is worse. It's reached ridiculous levels and I've had it. There's no reason my rig shouldn't be able to run this game which released in 2015 (And should therefore have 2015 hardware targets in mind...) at 60fps on high... NONE. Or even on LOWEST at this point... WTF. This game doesn't even look that good ffs... They need to recode the entire game at this point. It's hopeless. What an embarrassing mess.
Moi - I believe you made some very valid points and critiques but I feel you missed quiet a few: - G3 (7.62x51mm) vs M27 (5.56x45mm) recoil penalty comparison - you're right they don't compare, nor should they. One is a battle rifle and the other is assault rifle. So to say one is OP right after making numerous critiques of the other is a little disingenuous. - G3 is a harder weapon to manage and control and employ - yes correct. Furthermore, stating "...I feel I was just at a constant disadvantage..." - correct, Welcome to Asymmetric warfare - one of the stated goals of the game developers for game emersion. - PiP scopes degrading optimization and performance - Squad back in the v.4/.5 days around 2016-2017 (well before 50v50 players) said they tried this feature and it degraded player and server performance to the point that testers/players found it "game breaking". So when this feature was announced this degradation was ALWAYS going to be problem across the player base if it was to be implemented writ large.
I've fired real 7.62X51, 5.56, and belt fed MG's (also 7.62X51) on both full and semi auto 'back in the day'. And what you discuss is EXACTLY the reason most western armies went from the bigger 7.62 round to the 5.56 round. Controllability, follow up shots, ammo capacity in both magazines and the soldier as a whole, wounding effect etc. was all considered, and the 5.56 makes much more sense, although we see the US and others now looking at bigger cartridges once more, based on defeating armour and more effectiveness at range. And as for belt fed MG's, they're so heavy that they really damp down the recoil of the bigger caliber to the point that the weapon happily sits on target while chugging away, no problem (I only fired the FN-MAG, so the higher fire rate of the MG3 would certainly be a factor). Shooting a 7.62 x 51 rifle (ie not a support weapon like a belt fed MG with their weight) in full auto while standing (basically anything other than bipodded/on a rest while prone) was a complete waste of ammunition. And I'm not small. The round is significantly harder to control on full auto, to the point of being basically unusable against point targets. A very well set up rifle, with a decent weight and GOOD muzzle brake (thats the important part) can do it, but not a standard G3/M14/FAL....IMHO. They just weren't made to be used in full auto as standard (to the point that many militaries deleted the full auto selection capability). Plus, you burned through your ammo, and standard mags were only 20 rounds, and you carried less in total because it's heavier.
Adding to my previous comment, the US vs G3 matches are actually taken from Project Reality, where the US fights the MEC (Middle Eastern Coalition). In that game, players have accepted the fact that if you do CQB with the G3, the team with the 5.56 caliber is going to have the advantage, as in real life. One of the most famous maps of PR (Muttrah) that is played for 15 years now, is an M4 vs G3 map in an urban environment. So it works! Don't expect a "Battlefield" type of balance, each nation should have a different playstyle here.
All i'm woried about is optimization, unfortunatly every single developer nowadays just respond with "get a better pc". Hell, seeing what Dice menaged to do with bf4 (back when they worried about making a good product), I was able to run that game on max settings with only 6 gb of ram and a gtx750, and it still looks way more prettier than Squad. About the G3, sincerly it is already a piece of cr*p, in practice does the same damage as the 5.56, but has a slower rate of fire, stronger recoil and less ammo. I wish they added the HK33 or something like that to the MEA.
"I feel like the G3 is always going to be at a disadvantage." Yeah, it's the G3. It's an outdated rifle and its recoil is absolutely miserable in real life. What Squad doesn't even show is how disorienting the muzzle flash is. In real life, you can't even see what you're doing with the G3 in rapid fire, the muzzle blast and flash just drowns out your perception of the world. It has no place on a modern battlefield, except as a possible base for a marksman's rifle (the PSG-1 is based on the G3's operating mechanism, but is pretty radically different). Like the FAL and the M14, it's an outdated rifle for yesterday's warfightning.
I think even now this logic is wrong. M27 is better than the G3... well yeh, is that a surprise? M27 came into service in 2010, is based on the AR platform which is known as one of (if not the) best modern rifle platforms, in comparison to the G3 which first came into service in 1959. Why are you surprised that modern weapon platforms are a lot better? Initial shakiness after ADS, that's good, its OWI moving back towards realism, you're never going to get into a fire position and be instantly stable. This is so much better than how squad has been, I can't wait for this to come out to the public.
Don't increase the m27 recoil - 5.56 has damn near none. The 7.62x51 recoil is too high, thats the issue here. Go look at the halbek device video by forgotten weapons - ian can control the FAL in full auto even without it. It's unreasonable to think the same doesn't apply to the G3. Also would be cool if the rocks and frag originating from explosions had a similar effect to bullets when it comes to suppression. Like, you were sitting right in the open with mortar impact direct front, well within 100m. You'd be getting either hit by frag or you would've had frag flying all around you, yet there was no suppression effects
Your GPU means very little in a game that's literally locked to a single CPU core Single core reliance kills all squads performance. I'll never AGREE with the PIP scopes for this exact reason. Squad performance is already rubbish for a lot of players. Now it will be even worse. Nothing will change unless mutlicore support is added. But it won't be. Ever
As someone who has actually used the M27 in the US military, don't nerf/ increase the recoil on the M27, don't listen to gamers/YT'ers who haven't shot those guns, get a consultation from someone who has, preferably a veteran. The G3 accuracy especially in full auto SHOULD be butt, it's a shortened battle rifle shooting a large round. Maybe not as bad as it was in this vid, but def. not as good as the M27 IAR
1. Suppression is where I like it. Better than prior play tests. 2. G3 recoil need to be turned between the live server and PT6. 3. Scope performance is of non issue for me but I am sure optimization is probably need to make lower end systems to play smoothly. 4. My only gripe with ICO still is the LAT and HAT nerf. Not their Guns but their rockets. more specifically, those that are sighted/zoomed. Right now, you need to be absolutely in the right place, at the right time, and the no enemy suppresses you. Even then, it takes 3-5 seconds to shoot perfectly where you want it. It's essentially giving vehicles a big buff. I get there needs to be some swaying and penalty if you are not on full stamina but there should be only a little penalty if you are on full stamina or even better, no penalty if crouched. it's just too much noodle arm at the moment.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Never been so happy to be proven wrong. Absolutely loved this past playtest and its REALLY hard going back to regular Squad afterwards.
Nice content but you should make a op base in squad and fortify some roof to make it op
Can't wait for this update
Stop the cap
Atta boy. I love the humility, it makes me trust you even more. Good work.
I feel like infantry needs a couple more mags and definitely need a lil less recoil on the G3 lol
Having some experience with the G3 in my army days, I can tell that it was never intended to be fired in full auto, it was just a feature that was added for "you never know" reasons. The full auto feature isn't over-exaggerated that much, it's just that the player needs to counter-act the recoil manually. As in real-life "recoil management" is a skill that needs to be practiced. Nevertheless, let's not forget that the G3 is a weapon of an older era. Lastly, although the firing rate is higher, the mg-3 is much heavier (11.2kg) than the G3 (4.38 kg), so it's reasonable that the gun won't go up as fast. The unrealistic part is that the gun is still in the player's hands 😀
lmao exactly, try shouldering 7.62
Right on. Agreed 100% with what you said. Still though, from a gameplay perspective its unbalanced imo
appreciate that comment. actually a really good point
You can't control the recoil because its too intense. its impossible to control the playtest recoil because they have coded systems in that make it totally random along with the scope sway. There is no 'control' to be had with this new update.
@@Mrcool179 IMO it just needs to be a 1 shot to the chest rifle like it was when it was first introduced.
honestly comparing the G3 to an MG3 is not entirely fair as the MG42 may fire the same round but it is very heavy and long (wich due to torque makes it feel even heavier). Ive held both and the weight difference is substantial. Even with double the fire rate i have a hard time seeing that as a good comparison.
Agreed. The MG3 I'd a giant block of metal, where as the G3 has a lot of polymer furniture to lighten it up. It's barely isn't as heavy since it's not expected to whip rounds as fast or for as long as the MG3.
That being said, I have to agree with Moi. While the depiction in game might be faithful to the real weapon, it's still a game. It has to be enjoyable, and if one faction has a bucking bronco of a standard issue rifle, people won't wanna play them.
@@AnonOmis1000 i agree, i think something needs to be done, either make everything else that fation has better (asymmetrical warfare idea, wich is a shitty idea now that i think of it) or just make the G3 a little less..... like a mule lol
Yeah. Weight is a huge factor in recoil. Surprised he did not consider that.
The MG3 weighs over twice as much as a G3. Having said that, the G3 does kick too much. Possibly even more than it would for a real soldier.
This guy shoots and gets it. G3 on full auto IRL is unusable / border line unsafe.
A heavy m4 (Ie: m27 feels like it has no recoi)
The guns are literally 60 years apart from the same company. If it’s realistic, it should be 60 years better tech.
@@bobsmith7916 I actually don't shoot, but I know a non-zero amount of things about firearms.
I know the G3 from my time in Bundeswehr, I shoot it it a lot live... it kick you hard in the shoulder (if you are unprepared), but not what i see in the video. In RL the G3 is very smooth IF you know how to shoot it; and if oyu got a proper training on it. Like MG42/MG3 , if you got a proper training on it, you get used to the kick in the shoulder and you will get your hits. Also, G3 is a cold war weapon, we called it "Battlerifle" its bulky, heavy and yeah no comparison with modern short barrel stuff. A G3 you use on a traditional battlefield scenario and for example not in CQC against short barrel stuff like sub AKSU's or such... This weapon had it's on designed scenario what it is developed for, ya you can say in day back we used it also with panzer grenadiers to storm a villager or something on manouver, but there was better also weapons at this time that was better for things like this... cold war gun... i loved it, the caliber was meant to "take down" what you shoot. and it did. But that recoil i saw here in the vid, i kick up yeah but this is lol... no way buddy. Sorry for my bad english :(
3:25 That seems about right. The G3 is far lighter than a MG3 so it should cause the muzzle to flip upward faster.
Considerably so but going cyclic like that, shouldn't it account for rate of fire as well? G3 has about half the fire rate of the MG3.
@@MajinLiveTV Having never shot either gun with military cartridges, it's hard to say. Barrel length and balance is a also a factor. I think the mg3 would have a more forward center G, which would also help with muzzle climb.
@@MajinLiveTV paradoxically, no, weapons with RoF above 550 to below 700 (G3 has around 600) have the worst recoil. You want something either below or above that range. Forgotten Weapons had a good episode on that. Basically with high enough rate of fire individual recoiling rounds are felt more like a constant pullback force than repeating instances of kick back, making the final pattern of recoil easier to control than weapons with lower RoF (that 550-700 range). Therefore despite the rate of fire being extremely high, MG3 and MG42 are very controllable and accurate machine guns.
The reason for keeping lower rate of fire in some guns is one more of ammo conservation, not controllability.
@@MajinLiveTV I'm speaking in real life context. I never played the game myself but I love watching it. I couldn't speak for what you players experience.
@everythingphil9376 haha I understand. I feel a lot of people love the G3 in squad but personally I hate it. After that first round I can't hit the side of a barn at 100m with it. Might as well let me hip fire the MG3.
I feel the G3 should be hard but a weapon that only really requires a upper body shot to put you down.
Double the recoil, no revives when hit by G3.
@@czarkusa2018dumb idea
yh no it definetely should if they want to make it realistic, most body armour would have a hard time stopping 7.62 unless at a fair bit of range
@@CallumCBG pens nafo BA with 200% efficiency. Mysteriously drains ammo and supplies from nearest supply depo when in use.
@@CallumCBG ceramic armor has no problem stopping 7.62. Fast moving 5.56 is more effective at penetration than 7.62 is
I'm glad you walked your comments back! Seems all to rare that people admit to a bad take and you really earned my respect for that considering these devs don't have to overhaul the game. Especially where the current standard of gaming is sitting.
Speaking of which, has Karmakut ever admitted he was wrong abt playtest #2? I remember him making fun of Squad fans and then it turned out he was wrong and suppression really was bugged.
@@uncannyvalley3190yeah, he never apologises...in fact, he doubles down on the bad takes he makes and becomes a jerk to everyone that disagrees...just look at his comment section where he ends up replying to people and cusses people out
@@tevarinvagabond1192 I figured as much 😂
@weylandpunanigaming An absolutely L take right there...what are you even talking about? Lmao
@weylandpunanigaming schizo take
The thing I'm worried about most is the performance. I just got a new PC, but it still would not be a good direction to drop Squad performance even more. They haven't fixed the ghosting issues for years, so if the performance does ultimately get worse, I doubt they'll ever fix that either.
Main reason for why I rarely install Squad, the performance really needs an overhaul...
@@justryan6480 i was the same for years even with a high end rig... all changed on the latest 5.0 update though and seems so much better.
@@HijakMC hopefully my crappy low end can run it. Arma 3 runs fine, which is saying a lot considering Arma is super unoptimized
Crazy that this game is so old and never really balanced looks and performance. I backed it on Kickstarter and played the closed alpha, and I've never really been satisfied with the performance. And now it's drastically worse? RIP.
Applauds, it takes a real man with big guts to do this ! , thanks for staying honest & truthful on behalf of the community
Linus Tech Tips? what did that guy do?
@@porfirioErodriguez Vid from gamers nexus 2 days ago covered a bunch of stuff done by LTT. This included posting bad data from testing (like 230% off the actual value), sketchy testing results where they recommend products from companies that LTT is partnered with even though their tests showed that other products outperformed them, trashing a mouse saying it was not smooth but didn't realise the mouse had plastic film over the base. The biggest controversy was them trashing a two person startup's prototype and saying it was a trash product that no-one should buy when they willfully tested it with incompatible parts and then refusing to retest it because the $500 in employee wages was too much, then after the company wanted the prototype back LTT instead auctioned it off at their expo. Final part is that a former female employee has come forward with allegations of a very toxic work environment with leaked audio from a HR meeting that occurred shortly after her departure somewhat corroborating what she said. It has been a shitshow over there for the past two days
Original commenter is probably referring to the fact that after all the backlash from the community, Linus did a rushed forum post where he attacked gamers nexus, played the victim and refused to apologise which I guess OP was trying to contrast to Moi owning up to getting it wrong in his previous vid about the playtest
What a weird and random comparison.
I love moidawg and potato field servers. shitty internet at home has been a real factor unfortunately..
man, i'm really stoked for these changes
The G3 IRL is a fairly lightweight rifle firing a full power round. If definitely jumps around a bit, but from what I've seen from this playtest the recoil does need to be tamed down some. Maybe they can keep the magnitude of the recoil about the same but allowing for faster recovery of the sight back to the target would fix it, of thats possible.
I get that the G3 is supposed to have more recoil irl and that it does more damage to compensate but if the recoil is that bad I'd need it to do 100 damage to the torso for me to even consider playing it.
I have a Galil Ace in .308 with a 1-6x optic, very comparable to a G3, and it doesnt recoil at all like this. To be fair, the Galil has a very nice muzzle brake, but they need to tone down the muzzle flip on the G3 for sure.
@@crazypath573 the G3 is known to have terrible recoil impulse. because it is a roller delayed gas blowback it has a very punchy recoil impulse making full auto fire useless
@@Fatallydisorganizedit absolutely doesn’t have terrible recoil impulse and roller doesn’t cause terrible recoil impulse.
A 7.62 shouldered and fired full auto is hard to manage but the G3 is very easy to fire and very accurate.
I dont feel like you were overly harsh on your last video. Sure, the tests are just that tests, but as much as they are for technical testing, they are also to gather feedback. Keep doing what you do, as long as you articulate your issues and dont just rant for the sake of it, the devs can use the information as they best see fit. There is an important distinction between just being negative, and giving feedback, and I feel like you are well on the good side of that.
I don’t. “This play test is too buggy and I’m not enjoying the bugs” is not good feedback. But I don’t think moi is coming from a bad place
Performance was the biggest issue for me this go around, I get it it’s my fault for being poor lmao but my friend gave me a gaming laptop that’s pretty damn good. I still struggled just to aim properly on maps like harju and black coast
In squad i had the biggest diference in framerate ever, on some maps i had 50-70fps while on others i had 8...
Sometimes my poor 1660ti won't even load Black coast or Harju the first time lol. They have had a performance issue for a while now. So I automatically hate those 2 maps.
I'll point out the M27 is chambered in 5.56 vs G3 at 7.62 NATO, so it should behave MUCH more akin to M4/M16's
The m27 iar is 556 the g3 is .308 and the actions are different
Close engagements felt extremely frustrating if you have a scope. There should be a mechanism to hold your weapon at the high ready, similar to 6 Days in Falujah. And, yes, the weapon swaying around like it's not locked to your shoulder when ADSing is so artificially bad, it's like these soldiers are holding a weapon for the first time. If they wanted to tone down the amount of "running and gunning" they need to punish THAT style of gameplay. How? By raising the stakes for dying. People just burn through tickets nowadays, relying on individual skill rather than teamplay. That's the main thing that's wrong with Squad, not really the weapon mechanics.
Squad players when they can't Robin Hood their bullets into each other anymore
RECOIL IS TOO INTENSE, YOU MEAN I HAVE TO FORCE MY MOUSE DOWN MANUALLY??? I THOUGHT MY SOLDIER WAS A BIG MANLY MAN WHO CAN DO EVERYTHING FOR ME
MG3 weighs more and uses the same round as the g3, the mg3 should rise slower than the g3 if you're going to be realistic. I understand why the complaint though, I think g3 should have either a buff to damage or nerf to recoil to make it playable since it is the main rifle for mea and some sacrifices need to be made for the sake of balance
My one issue with it is the weapon sway. There is not that much sway even in real life.
Honestly i would rather see the MEA get completely deleted from the game and replaced with Israel or even an Iraq faction. Also the G3 needs to be replaced with the FN FAL or Galil
my issue is the fact your soldier doesn't re-centre their weapon after a turn or spin, its been my biggest gripe.
Which is realistic….
@@bobsmith7916 if I was playing with a vr headset and controls sure, not a mouse and keyboard.
It's realistic to leave my gun facing the wall of the alley I just peaked?
@@bobsmith7916 Hows that realistic? Does your arms not follow your body? lmao.
I think the G3 needs one of two things. A) Make it do something like 75-85 damage to the torso so it can two shot limbs. Or B) lower the recoil to match live so it still noticeably kicks more without it being comical.
High limb damage should be fatal.
308 to a limb will take i off which does make you battle field ineffective
@@bobsmith7916 Maybe a small childs arm but a grown man definitely not
@@bobsmith7916 Idk about "take off a limb" but if it hits in the right spot it will shatter a bone which effectively achieves the same goal.
I think one shot limb for any gun is too much though lmao
My biggest problem with squad is how stable your aim is without a bipod on scoped rifles. Absurdly unrealistic. Machine gunners are punished for not using a bipod, but scoped rifles you can 360 quickscope across the map. Shooting farther than 100 yards with any gun that isn't bipod'd or using some surface for stability is immersion breaking.
Definitely worried about performance. Wasn’t aware it had been an issue at all during all the play tests you guys have done. Just news to me. I have an 2080Ti and I’m worried.
I love that you have the integrity to admit when you've fouled up. You're a good dude
omg he just literally admitted to be wrong about a game , chill man
When this release, can you do an updated best graphics settings? Seems like those effects, pip sights will have an impact on performance. Also your last guide help me to get rid of blurry AA
Planning on it
Solid take and kudos for changing your mind, way too rare unfortunately!
In terms of the G3, it actually seems fine as it is but considering it's a full-on, old-school Battle Rifle it should 1-shot with Upper Torso shots.
Thanks good we have mod like MEE to keep us play this game because ico is just random fight, no skill need just dumb gunfights in a FPS 😒the gameplay is bad, I miss vanilla faction gameplay but I can play because it’s just make my want to break my PC because of this RETARD GUNFIGHTS!!! if I need to do a list of what is worst in this update in going to cite them : in suppress the blur is to consistent and unrealistic, better would be a tunnel vision and you can see a minimum what is in the middle of your screen, went you suppress you can respond you need to spray and pray like a blind man all the fucking map, I finding myself in 10 meters fight impossible for my and my opponent to hit ourselves because of this dumb mechanic of off-center to much my sight went suppressed , I can understand this off-center mechanic but not for 10 meters!!!! 100 meters I can understand… Need to be tweaked and reduce by 75% , next the vertical recoil is perfect but the horizontal is way to much, even more in speed shooting (I can understand but need to be reduced a little), spaghetti arms in hip fire!! just why so much? went ICO was announced I think it’s going to be like in insurgents sandstorm 😆, your weapon is still in the middle of you screen but offset I little went turning, but in Squad even a little movement offsets your gun from 30+% from the middle of your screen it’s ridiculous, should for good gameplay not more then 6~7%, and in big turn move not more then 15~20%, for the leaning mechanic the body of the character should body lean more like irl but scope leans less like in ICO with for door crossings just the upper part of the body exposed like in Arma3 because the lean is useless in games right now but the old spam leaning mechanic was a issue too because of the leaning animation bing all of the body to much lean, so we need to be able to lean with all weapons but with a new lean animation of the character similar to Arma3, but lean speed need to be mix between V5 to fast, and V6 to slow to have a enjoying and realist CQB gameplay, the PIP scope is fantastic I love it and the "F" key to change magnification is awesome 🤩and can be enjoyed at 100% in MEE mod , I don’t talk about everything but for now I play Post Scripture because make me feel playing Squad Prime ….. V5 so, and I just wait Operation Harst Dorstop to be like Squad and better in 1or 3 years and of course MME because I’m addicted to Squad, I’m so disappointed V6 have the potential to be one of the best and most realistic update of squad and OWI betrayed a big part of is dedicated community and I don’t going to buy they skins because I don’t want to support this studio until they make they real fan happy
All of the weapon recoil in this shit makes me mad. As someone who has access to these weapons and has shot more than my fair share in select fire and semi auto, I can tell you that the recoil on these is WAY over tuned by developers who only think they know how something performs.
Primary objective of the playtests was to evaluate balance and feel, I imagine they will address the optimization and performance last before they do final builds.
I quit paying squad after 3401.2hrs of playtime. Performance is absolute SHIT. Update after update favors fidelity over performance. Some great people I used to play with cant even play anymore due to performance. And no is it not acceptable for almost decade old game. My rig (5800x3d 2080ti 32gigs of ram).
Trash game status 😥
I don't think you were 'wrong' in your last vid - harsh, yes, but I agree that it's just kind of poor form and disrespectful to your community to not do the bare minimum to at least make sure the compiled client is playable before distributing it out to your public fans and testers. Regardless, very happy to see its already improved, and continues on the right track. I'm really looking forward to these changes making it to a stable release on mainline.
On the other hand, even though I'm on a 3070 Ti (and 8700K), I'm also really hoping they can find some ways to optimize graphics and CPU load, judging by your footage, lol. I think I'm roughly using your same graphics settings from last year, except at 1440p instead of 1080p, and it's already a bit choppy depending on the map and scenario. I'd hate to lose much more performance. I'm not sure I feel like this is a game that /should/ require top-of-the-line hardware just to play at reasonable settings.
there are few videos with soldiers firing weapons full auto, its nowhere near as dramatic as here in squad, they can easily control the weapon and send the bullets in somehow one direction instead of being blasted by recoil and send bullets to heaven
This just might be me, but I don't find gunfights similar to 1:25 fun, realistic or enjoyable.
Ico should be about stoping someone who you're shooting at 150+ meters away from getting out of sprint and 1 tapping you. Suppression they implemented is great at this, you can actually pin someone down with suppressing fire.
As for sway and recoil, it's something that should start mattering at 50+ meters when in single fire, also you should be able to use controlled auto till 20m, and maybe short bursts till 50m.
They should also implement the point fire mechanic for all the guns and add a mount mechanic similar to mw 2019 that gives you 20-30% recoil reduction of a bipod.
There is still way too much wiggle on the weapon when you ADS. Do they realize that rifles have a butt stock that goes into your shoulder? I am an advent shooter and I know you don't shoot rifles without supporting it in your shoulder. There is always three points of contact, both hands and YOUR SHOULDER!!!
I think the G3 could lessen it's recoil just a tad. Maybe a 10% reduction at most. BUT the gun needs to have incredible range and at the very least a 1 shot to torso at those long ranges. Shot to arms and legs should be crippling and would need a bandage asap or esle you'd bleed out in say 10 seconds.
It'll also automatically enhance the supression the MEA has as the enemy factions would instinctively hide and take cover when they hear a G3 going off as they know, one shot and they'd likely die.
"making me pull the trigger on finally upgrading my PC", so this upgrade is promoting e-waste and carbon emissions. Play BattleBit Remastered instead if you care about the environment.
I really don't understand how tf people enjoy those sway changes. your character, who probably spent half of his life in shooting ranges and mil camps just can't hit a damn shit from 5 meters and further, you have to stabilize for almost half a minute and just pray for enemy to not leave your area, and if you're being supressed at the moment, well good luck to even survive this.
I feel like after this video was made MoiDawg immediately said "SEE! I MADE THE VIDEO! JUST LET THEM GO!"
they need to tone down the blur and dial back recoil. Most of these weapons in the hands of a "Trained solider" should not be as bad.
Never gets old when a RPG round has no effect on a helicopter. These fucking things are just tanks in the air. I hope attack helicopters are never implemented with this in mind.
Where do they announce the playtests? I dont see it in the steam updates page for the game. Is it the discord?
If they don’t fix Performance I am not gonna play squad anymore 50 fps while combat is unplayable for me tbh
IMO: the weapon sway is just insane. It’s cranked to such an unbelievable degree that it makes firefights just full auto spray battles and a toss up as to who wins. Trained soldiers believe it or not can absolutely hold their weapons steady even with low stamina and while under fire. Suppression shouldn’t make my soldier paint figure 8’s in the clouds same with low stamina.
The irony of a game that is trying to be realistic is that sometimes it will have to sacrifice realism.
The recoil and weapon spray being exaggerated forces you to play with your squad more, and makes twitch shooting and lone wolfing much less viable. It also makes sprinting around and being overly mobile less viable and that forces proper squad tactics and movement to be effective. It also kinda helps with a more realistic feel to suppression and support fires.
Is it realistic? No. Does it create a more realistic dynamic to combat? Yes.
@@pluemas I disagree respectfully. Playing with my squad doesn’t get rid of my unbearable weapon sway, neither does it get rid of theirs. Gunfights still just result in switching your gun to full auto and pissing bullets at people because you can’t see, and your gun is wildly inaccurate due to uncontrollable sway. LMG players get to have a field day because of their bipod, but riflemen are currently forced to either crouch or lay prone, not move, hold shift to steady their aim, and still wobble all over the place. There needs to be a balance between extending gunfights with a suppression system that doesn’t render your riflemen completely useless
@@JuiceBoxHero98 riflemen aren't useless, theyre the mobile element to a fire and manoeuvre group. Full auto, realistically, should be limited to infantry support weapons and room clearing. Single aimed shots are still completely viable, as is moving under fire and repositioning.
The fact you have negatives to aiming whilst suppressed or sprinting around is an element of the game that you should adapt to. The easiest way to do that is by having team members cover each other, and by making smart use of your machine gunner and marksmen. This change makes both of those more viable and brings them more inline with how they are used in real life.
If you're not a fan of fire and manoeuvre and slower paced gameplay, then I could see how this might be frustrating. However, there are plenty of games that cater to that style of rifleman focused twitch shooting operator fantasy and Squad has (from the outset) not been aiming to do that.
Having been one of those trained soldiers and also having been competition shooting, you're not correct. An M16/M4 for example while you qualify with targets up to 300m, the accurate range on the move/or under active fire is less then 25m, and by accurate I mean just hitting the target. The only time you see anyone getting longer ranged on the move shots with any consistency is in competition where while the shooters are under stress of competition, that is it. Oh, an by the way most military members are actually pretty bad shots and they usually get absolutely schooled by civilian competitive shooters.
Standard military tactics are entirely built around this, we don't bum rush forward as a large group shooting on a move, we bound elements alternating suppressive fire to reduce effective counter fire. One fireteam shoots while stationary while the other one moves forward, then they switch roles. We do this because getting shot at severely reduces your accuracy, upwards of 4 to 10 times your grouping size at that range.
@@nicolivoldkif9096 I concur with this statement, it's accurate to my experience as well. Sway and recoil may be exaggerated in game, but it's done to force the player to the effective ability level of a rifleman. This forces them to actually use the tactics you describe.
I still feel that the sway and time from hip to ads is way too long assuming an experienced soldier holding the gun
Gotta have that PR recoil on the G3, love it!
I don't think you were wrong. Yes it is a play test, but there still needs to be SOME quality control. Sure some things will be broken, that's what you're testing for, but if you can go into the gun range and see the broken animations with little effort, that's not acceptable.
I really hope that in the final release they utilize all of Unreal Engine's optimization tricks
they honestly should even switch to UE5 after getting everything set and work on optimizing in UE5
they could utilize nanite along with Virtual textures to dynamically scale texture resolutions
unreal 5 still has its own issues which probably means this wont be happening for quite some time.
I'm hoping they make ARMOR behave like = Gunner, Heat PC!
I hope they make a free weekend when the full update comes out
God, Tking is bad enough in this game. I do not like that UI change.
First thing i do as i am back from vacation is turning on SQUAD❤, can't wait!
I think ADSing is still a LITTLE too aggressively difficult to control recoil (particularly dealing with sight sway) but, otherwise I really liked what it's done for pacing and overall feeling. The G3 definitely feels nearly useless unless your burst firing from the hip or you've got the marksmen kit and a bipod.
Yea sight sway doesn't make sense either, since real shooters will immediately establish a cheek weld.
It should almost immediately give you the sight picture, but have a few frames of hard sway, since it takes more time to adjust your aim than your eye.
@@Fiirow1 Yep. I get why they're doing it but it just seems a little too much at the moment. Overall all though it's definitely made squad to squad fights feel more intense and I do like that
@@OlderThanAverageGamer There should be a longer delay and reduced accuracy after a sprint, but they've added a really lazy implementation that besides being entirely wrong, also feels like shit.
I swear no one takes time to wait for things to settle, i've seen some people absolutely hammer OWI in a bad way, not constructive criticism, when they're trying to change for the better, that sht does not take a few days
Dude the amount of people/server owners/streamers just bitching and moaning about every little thing is so annoying.
The optimization was still sometimes a problem with normal squad, I have a I5-9400f and GTX 1660 and in some matches my FPS were like 30-50 (in other maps I got smooth fps, 60-80fps ish). I think it is gonna be a huge problem with this new Combat Overhaul Update. What should I upgrade first, my CPU or my GPU? Last time I tried to use a RX 6000 and squad performance was the worst xd.
I would say both equally, but the GPU could do with an upgrade first, but the CPU should definitely be done as well; mostly to keep a healthy load balance. If you have any familiarity in Overclocking, and have an actually good cooling system, then overclocking the CPU by just a small amount could help. At least, that's how i've been handling my Ryzen 3 1600X and my 4070 Ti being much difference in load. It actually causes stuttering when not Overclocked because of the load / timing differences, so keep that in mind
The m27 is a 556 rifle of course its still got less recoil
Rather than toning down the g3 recoil to what it is in game, what if they did it a little bit, but added a bipod to all g3s? that would turn the faction into one that relies on entrenching and defensive play
They don’t need bipods for defence etc. the way the G3 handles literally promotes people to sit back and not push because they are handicapped in cqb because all the other weapons out perform the g3 with their easier handling.
The recoil / sway needs to be toned down for the mea because they’re hands down the worst faction as it stands.
People will argue that the g3 is realistic however forget that there is lots of changes in the ico that are not realistic so for the sake of gameplay it needs to be improved otherwise there is no reason to eve play the faction
@@MrGlen1234567890 That IMO the missing piece is effect on target. At point blank a 556 is dumping 1150-1350 foot pounds of energy on target. A G3 sort of rifle is dumping about 2700 foot pounds of energy. Even assuming body armor rifle plates, getting slammed with a ton and a quarter of kinetic foot pounds of energy is going to mess up your aim (I have no idea why the US likes foot pounds over Joules but I don't speak joules). In squad, that is not happening. So going CQB with all semi auto with your G3 or heaven forbid full auto the deck is stacked against you. And the damage difference is shockingly low. But I am referring to default Squad and not whatever they got cooking. In reality, it is of course, not as simple as measuring foot pounds of energy... But in the game as it has been, G3 and even the Fal are balanced less than wonderful.
@@MrGlen1234567890 Pretty much this. I'd rather leave and wait a few minutes to find another match than be forced to play MEA
MEA should have good semi recoil keep the auto. G3 is roller delayed 308. Recoil is gonna be an issue with that operating system full auto, but semi should feel smooth. Agreed with performance, have a 1660Ti so not the most reliable source, but framerates became an issue when it came to loading. Seems like its based on view. Pip scopes were a little choppy when first shouldered but steadied out quickly. Once again it's probably something with how it loads the view.
Pls don’t change recoil. Normal recoil was perfect as it was!!!
I also have a2070 super and I have terrible performance. I figured out that it was all due to the sound quality. Set it to low and now I'm getting good frames on high settings.
love hearing this. Haven't been in game for a while but that first playtest was amazing and it sounds like we're getting close to that again.
The G3 is known for having quite a hefty kick to it, even for a 7.62 rifle. but that's quite an unrealistic recoil i feel for a trained soldier...
They should stop adding blur overlays, instead of a black a much larger translucent arora around screen when being suppressed but never too much as too blind imo. Minimal shake, pretty much as it already is in the game only for massive explosions. Explosions should deafen with special effect think of all of those action movies when that happens and it's slow mo. PIP optics are perfect. G3 overpowering recoil and iron sights are obvious glitches. Also notice rocks and debris in explosion 1:07 those should be real fragmentation that damage the player according to size and speed of fragment.
I disagreed with you the last video about the ICO and im glad you have reconsidered your opinion. I completly agree with you on this one.
People really dont understand realistic weapon recoil in games. The G3 has a lot of recoil. Full auto with it is far too difficult for mostly everyone to manage in any effective capacity passed 10m without the proper sheer physical strength, body mass, and training. I own one of these weapons. Its incredibly difficult and took a lot of training and upgrades to the platform to manage the recoil and i'm 6'5 260lb in the military. The biggest things devs get wrong about recoil in games is the LMGs. LMGs have less recoil than assault rifles. Especially something like the M249 which fires the same round as the M4. The 5.56. The M249 weighs as much as 22lb. The M4 only weighs about 8lb. Even with bigger LMGs which fire 7.62, the recoil is going to be manageable enough to lay down very effective fire at 100-200 meters while standing. I have no idea why game devs treat LMGs like they are handheld .50 bmg beasts. They are just heavy af and difficult to lug around and maneuver with.
As long as performance updates are made and some weapon balances are addressed I think this was the best yet
Almost everybody fkin hates the MEA cuz the G3 sucks, the recoil was bad enough on the SQUAD as it is, like you said. Makes no fkin sense to have a 7.62 that only does a littlebit more damage than the others rifles and you have to deal with all this unforgivable insane recoil is fkin madness, i hate MEA with all my heart cuz of this crap, they need to change it for good, i think if they did the 7.62 be fatal on the torso, a single shot fatal, that would balance things out, would be good enough for me. They need to add secundary scopes to the game, like a red dot on top of the ACOGs, in 2023 this is basic stuff c'mon, for crying out loud.
Lower the single shot recoil and maybe the auto recoil for the G3. 7.62 really isn’t that hard to control in single fire.
I really didnt like how hard it was to use the HAT/ LAT kit. even with full stamina and minimal movement, it was too extreme for my liking - other than that, everything 10/10 (expect the poor optimization ofc).
Hi moidawg, may be you can propose the dev to add à stance for fire the machingun ? Like in real life
MG3 is more than twice, maybe even three times considering ammo weight, as heavy as G3 so that's why it's much more manageable. Heavy AR-15 derivative like this M27 with attachments would have almost no recoil
I just wish they add more servers for play test, on asia we only have 2 playable server and have to wait for an hour just to play due to long queue
To play devil's advocate, G3 rifle auto vs support weapon auto... support weapon is much heavier esp with ammo load, therefore less recoil. Just for the sake of argument. (Yes I know one fires faster)
Massive positive feedback across the boards. #5 playtest with 3 more to go presumably, do you reckon we will see ICO going live by October?
I can hardly tell who I'm shooting at as it is with my low settings due to my budget pc, so the worse performance along with the removal of the nametags while ADS that have been incredibly useful for me has me worried. don't wanna have to upgrade my pc for a single game.
The g3 is like a 10 pound rifle while the mg3 is like 24 pounds. Of course the mg3 doesn’t instantly recoil to the roof.
So..................
I'll say the dev's most hated word: optimization?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Remember this used to be a game which can run smoothly with gtx1050.
Left the squad discord server yesterday because a mod muted me for 24 hours for daring to question him. Screw that community
My biggest issue with the rework is that weapon damage hasent changed.
Theres no reason to use the G3, it does the same damage as the m4 but with way more recoil.
I think the recoil for it is fine, but it needs to do way more damage.
In my opinion the game needs a damage rework.
This would be my way of fixing it.
4 body shots with 9mm to kill
2-3 body shots with 5.56
1-2 body shots with 7.62
1 body shot with 20mm +
MEA shouldn't be only using g3's mainly, there should be alot of ak's since it's an arab combined faction.
yea I dunno why you were so critical of it. it was a playtest and it's obviously going to be incomplete, have issues, etc. if it like that on the initial release then yeah those criticisms would be warranted.
7:17 they need to fix the smoke effects, you hit that m113 through the smoke because you could still see the engine smoke through the smoke grenades.
I think feedback for play tests is ultimately what the developers want, good or bad and so I think providing it to them in this way makes sense and reflects what we should look to do in play tests like these. It takes a lot to be more patient when it’s something your really passionate about so good on you moi ❤
i feel like they should buff the g3 but keep the recoil so then its a good gun but require skill to use kinda like rust
rust doesn't really require skill anymore kek
@@zembagaming7841 before the change
@@idriszamani4031 Ikr the devs are so stupid for changing it, now its the entire fortnite community
its good! its bad.... its good! its bad.... its good! its bad.... its good! its bad.... its good! its bad.... its good! its bad.... yes this is how playtests work
Performance was so bad in the new version it was literally unplayable for me. I used to be able to run this game on high staying above 60 fps 98% of the time. Now I had 2 choices for this playtest. Run in DX11 and enjoy sub 40fps every time i scoped my rifle (yeah, i set PiP to 60 hz). Or run in DX12 and it runs pretty damn well until you move your head or get in a firefight, then everything micro-stutters to 10fps. This is with everything turned ALL THE WAY DOWN.
What have they done to their game? "Performance improvements" every patch and every patch it is worse. It's reached ridiculous levels and I've had it. There's no reason my rig shouldn't be able to run this game which released in 2015 (And should therefore have 2015 hardware targets in mind...) at 60fps on high... NONE. Or even on LOWEST at this point... WTF. This game doesn't even look that good ffs...
They need to recode the entire game at this point. It's hopeless. What an embarrassing mess.
Moi - I believe you made some very valid points and critiques but I feel you missed quiet a few:
- G3 (7.62x51mm) vs M27 (5.56x45mm) recoil penalty comparison - you're right they don't compare, nor should they. One is a battle rifle and the other is assault rifle. So to say one is OP right after making numerous critiques of the other is a little disingenuous.
- G3 is a harder weapon to manage and control and employ - yes correct. Furthermore, stating "...I feel I was just at a constant disadvantage..." - correct, Welcome to Asymmetric warfare - one of the stated goals of the game developers for game emersion.
- PiP scopes degrading optimization and performance - Squad back in the v.4/.5 days around 2016-2017 (well before 50v50 players) said they tried this feature and it degraded player and server performance to the point that testers/players found it "game breaking". So when this feature was announced this degradation was ALWAYS going to be problem across the player base if it was to be implemented writ large.
The G3 does kick that much in real life. It's the worst recoiling 308 of all
I've fired real 7.62X51, 5.56, and belt fed MG's (also 7.62X51) on both full and semi auto 'back in the day'. And what you discuss is EXACTLY the reason most western armies went from the bigger 7.62 round to the 5.56 round. Controllability, follow up shots, ammo capacity in both magazines and the soldier as a whole, wounding effect etc. was all considered, and the 5.56 makes much more sense, although we see the US and others now looking at bigger cartridges once more, based on defeating armour and more effectiveness at range. And as for belt fed MG's, they're so heavy that they really damp down the recoil of the bigger caliber to the point that the weapon happily sits on target while chugging away, no problem (I only fired the FN-MAG, so the higher fire rate of the MG3 would certainly be a factor).
Shooting a 7.62 x 51 rifle (ie not a support weapon like a belt fed MG with their weight) in full auto while standing (basically anything other than bipodded/on a rest while prone) was a complete waste of ammunition. And I'm not small. The round is significantly harder to control on full auto, to the point of being basically unusable against point targets. A very well set up rifle, with a decent weight and GOOD muzzle brake (thats the important part) can do it, but not a standard G3/M14/FAL....IMHO. They just weren't made to be used in full auto as standard (to the point that many militaries deleted the full auto selection capability). Plus, you burned through your ammo, and standard mags were only 20 rounds, and you carried less in total because it's heavier.
Adding to my previous comment, the US vs G3 matches are actually taken from Project Reality, where the US fights the MEC (Middle Eastern Coalition). In that game, players have accepted the fact that if you do CQB with the G3, the team with the 5.56 caliber is going to have the advantage, as in real life. One of the most famous maps of PR (Muttrah) that is played for 15 years now, is an M4 vs G3 map in an urban environment. So it works! Don't expect a "Battlefield" type of balance, each nation should have a different playstyle here.
All i'm woried about is optimization, unfortunatly every single developer nowadays just respond with "get a better pc". Hell, seeing what Dice menaged to do with bf4 (back when they worried about making a good product), I was able to run that game on max settings with only 6 gb of ram and a gtx750, and it still looks way more prettier than Squad.
About the G3, sincerly it is already a piece of cr*p, in practice does the same damage as the 5.56, but has a slower rate of fire, stronger recoil and less ammo. I wish they added the HK33 or something like that to the MEA.
"I feel like the G3 is always going to be at a disadvantage." Yeah, it's the G3. It's an outdated rifle and its recoil is absolutely miserable in real life. What Squad doesn't even show is how disorienting the muzzle flash is. In real life, you can't even see what you're doing with the G3 in rapid fire, the muzzle blast and flash just drowns out your perception of the world. It has no place on a modern battlefield, except as a possible base for a marksman's rifle (the PSG-1 is based on the G3's operating mechanism, but is pretty radically different). Like the FAL and the M14, it's an outdated rifle for yesterday's warfightning.
MG3 recoil makes sense because its a heavier gun, and the heavier the gun the lesser the recoil if they use same ammo types
I think even now this logic is wrong. M27 is better than the G3... well yeh, is that a surprise? M27 came into service in 2010, is based on the AR platform which is known as one of (if not the) best modern rifle platforms, in comparison to the G3 which first came into service in 1959. Why are you surprised that modern weapon platforms are a lot better? Initial shakiness after ADS, that's good, its OWI moving back towards realism, you're never going to get into a fire position and be instantly stable. This is so much better than how squad has been, I can't wait for this to come out to the public.
Don't increase the m27 recoil - 5.56 has damn near none. The 7.62x51 recoil is too high, thats the issue here. Go look at the halbek device video by forgotten weapons - ian can control the FAL in full auto even without it. It's unreasonable to think the same doesn't apply to the G3.
Also would be cool if the rocks and frag originating from explosions had a similar effect to bullets when it comes to suppression. Like, you were sitting right in the open with mortar impact direct front, well within 100m. You'd be getting either hit by frag or you would've had frag flying all around you, yet there was no suppression effects
Your GPU means very little in a game that's literally locked to a single CPU core
Single core reliance kills all squads performance.
I'll never AGREE with the PIP scopes for this exact reason.
Squad performance is already rubbish for a lot of players.
Now it will be even worse.
Nothing will change unless mutlicore support is added. But it won't be. Ever
As someone who has actually used the M27 in the US military, don't nerf/ increase the recoil on the M27, don't listen to gamers/YT'ers who haven't shot those guns, get a consultation from someone who has, preferably a veteran. The G3 accuracy especially in full auto SHOULD be butt, it's a shortened battle rifle shooting a large round. Maybe not as bad as it was in this vid, but def. not as good as the M27 IAR
delete the video if you are sorry. Negative take bringing harm to possible growth for your main game
1. Suppression is where I like it. Better than prior play tests.
2. G3 recoil need to be turned between the live server and PT6.
3. Scope performance is of non issue for me but I am sure optimization is probably need to make lower end systems to play smoothly.
4. My only gripe with ICO still is the LAT and HAT nerf. Not their Guns but their rockets. more specifically, those that are sighted/zoomed. Right now, you need to be absolutely in the right place, at the right time, and the no enemy suppresses you. Even then, it takes 3-5 seconds to shoot perfectly where you want it. It's essentially giving vehicles a big buff. I get there needs to be some swaying and penalty if you are not on full stamina but there should be only a little penalty if you are on full stamina or even better, no penalty if crouched. it's just too much noodle arm at the moment.