@06:38 Dr K enters and talks about previous interactions with Destiny @09:03 Destiny enters @10:45 What Dr. K has been up to @13:40 Are people even talking about tech addiction? @18:56 Discussion on honing our perception @22:15 Retrospective analysis to improve work @28:12 What Destiny's been up to and how he's grown objective and subjectively @36:10 Ridding oneself of all bias @40:12 Logic can be hijacked by emotions @43:50 Discussion about intentional binding @47:00 Making decisions and their rewards @50:15 Dr K's 3 different conversation threads @52:29 Discussion on biological determinism @57:36 Plateaus and breaking through them @58:20 Destiny's dismissive avoidant attachment (where it gets interesting imo) @01:02:43 An issue of state not trait @01:05:26 Destiny being a people pleaser, but also not wanting people to care about him @01:13:17 Pros of being an independent child @01:16:25 To change or not to change things @01:19:20 Understanding Destiny's mind and feeling responsible for other people's feelings @01:22:47 Destiny's self-judgement and struggle with compliments ----- insecurity? @01:27:40 Being responsible for other people's feelings again (and protecting Dr K's feels) @01:33:00 A time when Destiny made people unhappy and was punished for it @01:36:30 Being relied on and Destiny's relationships @01:42:11 Is Destiny a sociopath? @01:44:37 What's wrong with letting people down? @01:46:34 Destiny's vasana and compassion @01:49:30 How Destiny perceives and gives compliments and Dr K's advice @02:02:10 Dr K talking about compassion and admitting we've been hurt @02:07:10 The technicalities of compliments @02:11:45 Omega form @02:16:27 The boundary between you and another person @02:19:10 Being an asshole @02:21:34 Realtime example of Destiny learning(!!!) @02:22:25 Dr K's journey with Eastern medicine and it's place in the West and a rehash of the Dr Mike episode @02:36:02 How Dr K practices Eastern medicine in the West @02:38:50 Removing the East from Eastern medicine - sandwich analogy @02:45:15 Dr K's reflection on Ayurvedic research @02:47:40 Heuristics and their functional utilities @02:50:08 Cultural appropriation of Eastern medicine @02:51:45 Dr K gives us concepts to think about
I am a 55 year old woman with ADHD and Steven reminds me so much of myself. I believe the problem to ask for or accept help have a lot to do with the fear of being a disappointment to others.
@@EvdsChannelthere is a chance, yes. I'm avoiding help too, but it kinda damaged my relationships, when people can do nothing to help you, they feel disconnected and not close
@@AXharoth No, it absolutely is. Can attest. A lot of people with ADHD have huge difficulties with relationships because we struggle with commitments and scheduling time for others, we can be difficult to communicate with because we can have trouble listening to others, we might cut you off or hijack a conversation, without any ill intent, and gennerally speaking we also just tend to have huge insecurity and anxiety issues. Another way of looking at this is the correlation between anxiety, depression, autism and ADHD. Destiny is lucky that he seems to have developed really good strategies for productivity, so he's probably an example of a more secure ADHD'er, but when you look at the stats of how likely people with ADHD are to have had issues with work, colleagues, managers, getting laid-off, etc, and the tendency for us to drop out of school, or not complete education at a level that would otherwise be appropriate for our intelligence, it becomes really understandable that a lot of us feel like we're failing ourselves and the people we know. When you feel like a failure, but you recognize that given your intelligence and capabilities you should be performing better, it becomes really easy to feel like a burden and develope shame and embarrassment around asking for help or having to depend on others.
Maybe as the cpontent on internet become more engaging or healthy and organic way, people will actually be more inspired to follow mostly organic content anda lso replace it with meeting face to face in real ebvents outside in healthy groups. I mean for example yoga people or sport people, or music people etc There should be some "screen detox" therapy or topic or better say "click detox" because people make maybe 11 000 clicks per day without even realizing it consciously.
His convos with Destiny are almost always great. The last one about adhd meds was a little slow bc it was super specific, but in general that riff off one another super well. They’re both smart, and I think Dr. K is about as good as conversations/communication as Destiny is at Debates. Which is to say, one of the best online.
@@Bellamy_Koby I was a fan of Destiny for a time & find him to be too argumentative (as opposed to collaborative) and needlessly aggressive in debate at his worst. I only say that because I do think he’s very bright, just sometimes falls victim to the identity politics & clickbait era we live in
@@specialknees6798 I agree that Dr K is an expert communicator and will have no problem keeping things on rails (: Destiny is a great debater but I hate seeing him “lose his cool” in some of those said debates
I like how a channel about positivity and mental health health has a bunch really toxic comments towards the guest. Destiny isn't on here to debate anyone, he's having a human-to-human conversation about his personal issues. Regardless of your opinions towards him, you should be able to sypathize with a person who is trying to sort out long-standing issues in the way they see others. If anything, Destiny would come out of this talk being a more compassionate person. You guys should want this.
Destiny mentioned in this that he tries to be aware of biases against people he doesn't like. I'm glad I checked my bias against him, and went ahead and watched. I felt a lot of myself I'm destiny here and learned a whole lot from this.
2:21:34 there's so many things that kinda resonated with me and this exact moment where I would probably said the same about "ok we should cut the call because you mentioned" (and in my mind would be something like ok he probably wanted to cut because we could got too many hours or he's busy or just don't wanna talk more so I should "flow" with the first sentence and say yeah we should cut), but then Destiny apply what Dr. K was talking and damn... it really felt like an eye opening, like those who wear glasses and then you just clean it and never realized how dirty they were until you actually clean it. Also the respond of Dr. K sound geniue like "ok we can talk but I have just 20min if that ok with you". I feel like I learn a lot, thank you so much for talking!
the lesson is some people learned too well to not be selfish , but it goes too far sometime and you actually need to learn to be more "selfish" , but i guess a better word is self loving , but also its important to not assume automatically that youre bothering that they are busy , that they dont have time bla bla bla , ask rather than automatically assuming all that negative stuff
@@phantom_drone do you often watch streams or just videos? a lot of what I've seen already brushed over these topics in ways that showcased what he struggled with before, in quite a lot of arcs. I would say the only difference was that this was a much better deep dive and deconstruction on what to actually do to change those issues, thanks to Dr. K
@@youngbaggerz6944 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.”
I relate to so much shit that Destiny says, but I think I'm far FAR less capable than him in the confidence (or "condifence") department, but also (thus?) more able to see when things like not wanting help are related to my insecurities, and boy it's so fun and rewarding to watch Dr K kinda coax this stuff out of him. That said, I feel like A LOT of people would be more easily coaxed. The fact that Stephen said he has NO idea why he has a hard time accepting compliments and Dr K smiled, I was like ooofffft this stuff is buried DEEP. DEEP!!!! with this guy. I love it when you guys talk together. Thanks!
Not sure who doesn’t like Steven from this community, but one thing is true. Dr.K and Steven have arguably the most authentic personalities styles in this community. Cheers to many more interviews going forward between you two.
Based lovepost. Love these convos between them too. I think most of the people who dislike destiny get it from other peoples characterization of him not actually consuming his content.
@mordant9495 That is precisely why it is being asked, Dr.Mike is very smart and knowledgeable but did not necessarily have the skillset to navigate the conversation the way he clearly wanted and destiny as well as his fan base both felt this way, even though they leaned more towards DrK as a person
@@Erik-mf5zoYeah, a lot of that conversation needed some knowledge or at least some experience in thinking about the Philosophy of Science, the conversation was a bit circular at times.
@@mordant9495 i feel like K wasent prepared to have a debate, and aside from that Mike had already made his mind on Eastern medicine so it was a bit chaotic and unclear convo which is why Destiny said that he came with a different impression to many people who saw it as dr K being exposed
One thing that was bushed over in this topic was when Destiny mentioned that his family was very religious. Anecdotally I have noticed many people (especially men) who grow up religious turn to hyper-intellectualism when they leave their faith. They tend to obsess over debate, philosophy, and requiring empirical proof of every little thing. It almost seems like they are afraid to just take anything on faith or feeling because of the trauma that comes feeling fooled by religion growing up. There's nothing inherently wrong with these topics, but it's often used very defensively and to justify being mean to their critics. I'd love an exploration of this topic, as I see it play out in so many people.
really really enjoying this one. helps me a lot to see sth close to a therapy session with someone who intellectualizes the shit out of everything, could relate to a lot of it
@@WolfHeathen rather than casting judgment on others on a channel about self improvement and mental health. We should strive towards making an environment where people can be vulnerable and not immediately on edge by calling into question whether they’re an “intellectual”.
@@9999ping it's insane how everything that Dr. K tries to express is thrown out the window as soon as he talks with people that chat doesn't like. Like what are they even gaining from these conversations if they turn this hostile?
1:32:04 - i never expected to relate to steven so much. relationships are so burdensome for him-not because he's a bad person but because he gets so little out of them in return for how much effort they take. there's so much sadness and loneliness in having to live like this, but at least it's "safe" and predictable, and peaceful, and quiet. i imagine there's very little "noise" in steven's personal life. no one he has to "keep happy", so he's free to focus on his work, which for him as a content creator is basically 24/7. good thing that, as it keeps him distracted from how dissatisfied and bored he is. life has no spark when you're all alone on a little island. p.s. i'm not trying to dissect steven, moreso i'm mapping out the nature of his pain through my personal experience of it. it's a safe pain. but it's a slow burn. and boy does it burn.
1:10:14 I’ve never identified with someone so heavily. I hate it when people did things like that because it felt like they were using their emotional disregulation to hold me emotionally hostage or emotionally blackmail me and then hide behind social convention/cohesion.
Have you changed your understanding of what they're doing? Because while some people do behave in the way you mention, they're actually pretty rare. There's likely a perception issue, like Dr K discussed with Destiny
I imagine, having someone else worry about you after not having that happen all your life probably feels unfair. Like a betrayal of the way you've lived so far. You've been denied the cake of someone being there for you, but that comes with the benefit of not having to worry about other people's perception of you. But all of a sudden someone just decided that you can't eat that cake either, and steals the freedom of being lonely from you too. Like, thinking you've bought a singleplayer game, but turns out you were mistaken and had gotten a multiplayer game instead.
These talks are so very much informative, I often find out stuff about myself through them. Like deep-deep stuff. Big thanks also to the "guests" willing to open up in front of us - what they are doing is a HUGE service to a lot of people. Thank you! What I've figured out today (seems so obvious now) is that the way I almost never miss people is likely coming from my father being absent for a big part of my childhood (because of work and work related travels; and often when he was finally home, he was still not available as he was tired). I have noticed a long time ago, living abroad, that I don't ever feel home sick and I don't really miss people (not even family and close friends), but never gave a deep thought to why that is. (I'm not sure if the lack of home sickness is related, but it feels that way.) On the other hand, when I really care for someone (romantically) it feels like all the not felt people-missing is all coming out at once and I really suffer. So now that I have figured this much out, I have no idea what to do about it. 😅
Oh, and as I finished watching the whole thing, I resonate with a lot of the things you've said. I'm a young woman with recently diagnosed severe ADHD and I weirdly embody a hyper sensitive empath combined with what you were talking about. I don't feel certain things as other people, sometimes I question those traditions, often also logically, which results in people getting offended. Brutal honesty kind of thing. It made me hide certain aspects of myself, since I was getting hints of me being a bad person. BS. I've also had thoughts about sociopathy, even though it's ridiculous looking at how much I care at times. It's just selective and I don't think I was born that way. About the Grandma thing, my first thought was that it's also about guilt. Idk how much of it you've actually felt, but for me it was always an underlying byproduct of taking responsibility for everyone's feelings. No one wants to feel that way and I get it so much since such things irritate me too and people like to use "I'm staying up all night because of you" to guilt trip which means pure manipulation. I experienced it "million" times and it's not only caring in my opinion, often they expect you to accomodate according to their internal state. On one hand I get it that someone would worry, I'm like that too, and I'm guilty of such behaviours myself. But staying up at night would be just too much. It's putting way too much responsibility on someone indeed. It depends, is it just caring or is it suffocating and controlling, because one can perceive it as both and it also depends on the way in which those things are delivered. The fact that it bothers you, shows that you were made responsible for the feelings of others as a kid and that's why you take it that way (I get it). It's a vulnerability and that shield of "not caring" and being hyper rational protects that hyper attunement to others, which is reasonable. Finding the balance would include being receptive and attuned which would not lead to that amount of hurt if you'd implement boundaries and that separation Dr K mentioned. It's not an easy road, so have fun, from another people pleaser, and those are indeed hallmarks of DA attachment style in your case. Especially with some amount of alexythymia.
It is truly wild how many times Destiny said how “stupid” or “dumb” something he just said was. I’ve never seen that side of his inner dialogue before.
2:29:32 I take Olanzapine, it cured my insomnia, I also gained 20lbs. I was fairly skinny before so it worked out, but I gained that 20 and have stopped gaining or losing any weight since. Which honestly is freeing as I don't have to worry about my weight in either direction anymore.
One aspect that I was able to relate to was when they were discussing “not wanting to disappoint people”. The example destiny gave was meeting up with fans at a festival of some sort. For me, and I suspect for destiny as well, the biggest issue I run into is I’m never sure if I’ll want to go when the time comes. So if someone asks me “hey do you want to go to this party next week”, in my mind I genuinely have no clue if I’ll want to go or not. Some days I’ll wake up and be down for anything, other days I don’t want to leave my bed. It’s hard for me to say yes or no, so often times I’ll give a middle of the road answer, or simply say yes and then later make an excuse/ghost or whatever if I don’t want to do it after all. It sounds to me like that’s what’s going on with destiny, but I could just be projecting
I loved the conversation! It’s always a pleasure to hear you both speak. I felt like you both really connected and I took away a few really meaningful insights I am going to try to apply to my own life. ❤
This was the first time I got a chance to catch a live stream from Dr. K. There were a lot of relatable moments for me when listening to destiny talk about these thought processes and how he feels about certain situations. The information and advice of Dr.K was/is very helpful to me. Thank you Dr.K and Destiny for allowing this conversation to be watched by us.
65 year old boomer here: It seems like our generation said "I think" as the default expression... For example; "I think it's too cold to go out." "I think people are spending more time on the internet"... while the younger genertions use "I feel" as the default... "I feel like it too cold to go out." "I feel like people are spending more time on the internet." Good, bad or otherwise, I think younger people are more in touch with their feelings and give them more credence than us older folks. Destiny reminded me because he seems to "feel" his ideas and opinions as he expresses them.
It's certainly something interesting to think about. For me, I use "I feel..." when I know my opinion is more rooted in intuition than anything I can concretely probe within that moment. And to that same effect, I use "I think..." when I can recall the opinion I'm stating being backed up by facts, but I can't quite recall those facts with accuracy within that moment. It's a subtle, but fascinating distinction.
That is an incredible insight. Thank you for this, Joni. I'm nearly 40 years old, and I'm trying to understand the difference, and you just highlighted the issue. At my age, I suspect that people use the two interchangeably, which might be the transition.
Dr K should chat with Gerbert Johnson, he's like a black pill youtuber but he's really young and really smart, a conversation between them would be really interesting.
At first i wasn't really feeling this conversation, but god this turned into such a good talk that resonated with me so much. Thanks Dr. K, I think this conversation is more helpful to people that even you might realize. I'm always super excited when you get to talk this personally with Destiny
this is the purest example of not all heroes wear capes. this man's crossover between east and west practices while just being a great human is what is making him the goat
Pleeeease have the conversation where you expand on the last part. I am so excited for this! I was looking for exactly this kind of dialogue between "eastern" and "western" epistomology and learned so much just from this short introduction. Thank you
Love to these two talking. I think a lot of people have a bad impression of destiny based on the things they’ve heard but seeing him actually speak shows he’s a pretty smart and interesting dude.
I have listened to him closely in long form conversations. I think he thinks he has good intentions but his behavior runs counter to his supposed intention@@AXharoth
@@bigzed7908 from what I've seen and could be wrong, he either doesn't believe in greater truth or isn't committed to it. He seems to prioritize argument itself over what should be the end goal which is more complete understanding. This is normal for people online though
@@weatheredseeker I'm pretty regarded but can you provide an example or more specific things because I still don't get it. Destiny does love to debate, but I don't know if he's trying to debate for the sake of debate. Even when he's the most edgy like when he debates over topics like insect, it is done because he believes he can articulate and has confidence in his stance even when it is tried against the strongest argument on the other side without simply saying "No it's bad.". He's a pretty argumentative person and likes to make people on the other side look stupid but I think that also can be a good thing? If someone is correct and really confident with their position to sell it out to other people then they should be giddy to test it out and hear counterarguments from people like Destiny?
Destiny saying he didn't want his father to be supportive of him in that one instance kinda hit me because when I was a kid I was in a tournament and both my parents had to work and I told them it was OK that they didn't need to be there for me but the truth was that I really needed them there. When I won the tournament I felt like nobody cared for me. So even though as a kid we say we don't want our parents to support us and we try to be independent, it actually does matter that they take interest in us and cheer for us. It can be embarassing if they are there but at the end of the day it matters a great deal.
I love Destinity and I love Dr. K and I love how you guys maintain a connection and understanding through time. Is something that give me hope on humanity. No joke
A little fact correction, the martini clinic in germany is focused on prostate cancer and adjacent conditions. But the work they have done is amazing, they are also one of the few places globally which record outcome measures. Including patient reported outcome measures
can i just say and i don't mean this as a dig or anything but as an audhd (autism+adhd) guy i relate to this dude quite a lot and i mean it in the most positive way possible like i feel seen in some ways
As someone who as a 30 something has JUST been diagnosed with high-functioning autism, it also quite resonated with me. So many parts of this, but mostly learning how to be quite adept in social situations by observing and copying what others did, viewing the world almost like a giant stage and seeing everyone else performing and stealing the best performances to shape my own social understanding. Also, the annoyance of having someone like a parent or grandparent care so much for you that they'd constantly stay up for you and always ask questions about your day- like Destiny, i always would find this irritating behavior from my mom because it felt like it crossed boundaries, but i could never pinpoint why until i got into therapy myself a year or two ago. Destiny def is on the spectrum- it's obvious if you've ever watched him before, but this conversation and these stories just solidified it for me.
drk looks like such a badass when he lets himself mess with people (when he knows they won't be hurt by it ofc) using these super-deep things he knows about them
A thing that has helped me with my neurotic behaviors, like creating scenarios based on past experiences, is to think about what could be if the fear that underlies these scenarios is not true and also how likley are the premises that is required for that fear to be true. For example, dealing with abandonment can lead to a lot of intrusive thoughts based on fear related to the people you love, I try to move the focus from the negative 'what if' to the positive 'what if' so that I don't get carried away by overanalyzing things.
Basically when i value the positive i can get out of things, insted of the negative, it helps me with doing things in a strive for something instead of a fear of something else
I appreciate the way Dr. K. explains how to maintain interdependence while setting boundaries with people. Being compassionate while being centered and a stable ground for people who are struggling and suffering is a healthy relationship. It's different from being overly empathic, enmeshed, and merging and fusing with them as the latter drowns both in a codependent dynamic.
Got dank! That hit real hard Dr. K! I relate a lot with Destiny, but I never internalized any reason why. A lot of what you talked about is very relevant to myself. I will have to listen to this again. Love the book even though I don't have kids. I did buy a hard cover and gifted it just cause I think it's super important information! Much love Dr. K! ❤️
it's weird to see Dest this vulnerbale. for allof the quick thinking, quick talking and combative debating style, it shows we're all complex and with issues and vulnerabilities.
No I would not classify him in that way. Yet the point was listening to in meaningful ways to find helpful or important information from speakers you do not agree with or like as a person for one reason or another. This is a key topic discussed in the video and I believe that you could learn a great deal from not closing yourself off and making assumptions of other people.
Dr. K, I googled Biological determinism, and the top result is pretty much what Destiny is saying, so I'd use a different word for what you're talking about to avoid misunderstanding
Biological determinism is more broad than just race though. In recent years the neuroscientific and philosophical discussion has been more directly related to whether or not free will exists, which is what Dr. K was referring to. Definitely could've been clearer and just used the word free will tho
@@Beau136 No, there's a big difference between Determinism without the word Biological in front of it and how it's used in philosophy and in a way that yes is connected to human brains and some biology but still. Semantics matter. Biological determinism isn't what Dr K actually meant. He was just talking about free will vs determinism.
Fantastic conversation! Destiny for sure gained respect from me after this, him being willing to work on himself is a great great thing. Also I learned about myself as well (which is why I’m here) so for that I’m very thankful!
A big problem with social media is that it is *in theory* connecting you to all human beings in the world, but *in reality* connecting you to a very comparatively small subset of human beings. So the perception is, I don’t have a friend group/bubble, I am one with humanity, I can control who I speak to when, it if everyone in existence. While in fact you *do* have a friend group/community/bubble… With almost zero control over who is in and out of that circle. Our circle is under control of algorithms. And our circle has a lot of influence over how we develop, how we see ourselves, how we see the world. Which means with social media, we have little control over those things… while also believing we are free from any control/influence from any system or group. The cognitive dissonance of that is this huge gulf, an overwhelming chasm… That is completely invisible to us. And when we trip over that chasm, that’s a real head-trip. Or we deny that the gulf exists for our own self-preservation.
Thank you for your comment, I was going to skip this video despite being a fan of Dr. K and his conversations with other streamers, because of how much of a dislike I had for destiny after watching him on @whatever. Every other person is commenting how much they relate to him, when, at least having not watched the video yet, I can’t think of a single person that I would probably relate to less.
I think it’s interesting how doctor K is genuinely hinting towards extremely traumatic things that could’ve happened and destiny feels completely emotionless about them. It’s a scary thing to process
from his face i think you can guess when he feels pain, he makes grimaces or bites his teeth. by his own admission he wants people to not care for him. showing negative emotions might cause people to do exactly that, which he doesn't want to happen.
I was dying to see these two together and I’m a huge fan of them both. I already watched this on Destiny’s channel and now I’m here to give Dr K some appreciation.
Thank you so much for this conversation (and conversations like this generally). I loved every second of it. Destiny and Dr K truly make a great conversation duo.
@@alexandermacneil4430 well, he seems to try, regardless of his opinions of the conflict. Not that you'd care, you are just on a weird twitter ego trip Not really relevant to this conversation anyway is it?
@@morphkogan8627 innocents on both sides have died from each others' hands. I side with neither of them. They should both cease this pointless violence
It's great to see platforms fostering constructive dialogue, especially in a time where understanding different perspectives is crucial. 🌟 By engaging in respectful conversations like this, we can bridge divides and cultivate a more empathetic and informed society.
1:13:00 I got goosebumps because of how close this has hit home for me with what Destiny is talking about its actually hard for me to not tear up a bit dude that independent growth from childhood provides benefits but fuck me there is some weird shit that happens to our sense of like love and comfort from people in general because of it. I gotta get back into therapy ima get on that after work
I don’t have to like Destiny to respect his level of candor and not acting like an immature person. It’s hard to come by these days. Immensely valuable.
@@DudokXyou must be coming from a Hasan stream 😂😂. You guys are such haters. He’s the only good faith political content creator who actually believes what he says. I’ve been watching destiny for the past 3 years and he’s never let me down a single time, I’ve disagreed with him, but I never got the sense he was trying to mislead his audience.
I love conversations with destiny because of the way you two communicate in this particular space. Observation based - trying to listen to the music. I learned lots. Especially about how we should be more honest with ourselves when interacting with others. Now, it's how can we communicate our honest selves in a respectful way and not in an asshole way.
2:20:26 - I think overlapping the concepts of sociopathy and centeredness like this is risky - it's probably better to say that being centered and free of anticipation and attachment to specific responses from others can look like or get confused with sociopathy, but the internal workings and outcomes are very different. It also bears mentioning that having low emotional reactivity can also be a workable personal trait or pattern very different from sociopathy, but also distinct from healthy emotional distance. And it may or may not, depending on the case, overlap with trama-induced or learned/conditioned alexythymia. Thoughts, at least.
this was an amazing discussion. i only know of destiny what his Tweets and Reddit posts show him to be... so i had absolutely no idea how this was going to go it was incredibly intriguing to see. informative as well.
2:03:15 I GOT MY ARMCHAIR PSYCHOANALYSIS GOIN RIGHT NOW. But nah, Steven here looks like I do when someone I love or deeply admire gives me hard truth advice that I know is: 1) correct 2) something I really needed to hear Even if it isn't something I find too important, the look on someone's face when they're secretly taken aback is just so easy to spot sometimes (at least for me. God knows I give that EXACT same look when I get told something I have no response to, because any response I could give as an excuse or a counter can get easily reflected back to me and both of us know it).
Jonathan Haidt talks about the impact of cell phones and internet on teenagers - has a new book and is all over talk shows (and UA-cam). He also has a campaign to get cell phones out of teens’ hands and out of schools.
I had stomach issue the longest time. I went to the doctors and I got prescribed a medicine. I tried it for 6 months and it seemed not to work. The Doctors told me to take the medicine for longer (2 years). I tried this and it still did not work. I went to a new Doctor which prescribed me 3 different medicines that I was supposed to take for 3 weeks. Everything was solved and I was happy. Until 5 years later because of unhealthy life choices. I informed the doctor that they should prescribe me what I took last time because it fixed the problem. Their answer was "No" and that I should take the old medicine that did not work for me. I tried fighting them but they did not give in. I tried it another year, then I went to a new Doctor again. So I do really hear what Dr K is saying here. You should consider the data, but you also see the individual.
Can you elaborate? I feel like most compliments I get are fake, but I don’t really care. At the end of the day the thing being communicated is a positive impression the other person has a of you.
@@phantom_drone true, a lot of compliments are fake and are just there to keep up an appearance for me at least, what helped was knowing that these ppl are gonna leave and betray me the minute it's appropriate and just keep my cards to myself obviously, that doesn't mean you can't be nice. nah, bro, smile, say thanks, even feel free to give them a friendly nudge, but when push comes to shove, you at least know that you can't trust them and can act appropriately
The part where at 1:09:47 where Steven brings up not socializing with others the same way other people do rings so relatable to me. I never really feel right saying things like Please/Thank You/Sorry/Happy Birthday/etc. And its not because i don't feel thankful, or sorry, or respect, its because in MY mind, these concepts never need being said aloud. I always put all of my value on interactions in actions rather than words. I don't want people to tell me sorry. I don't want people to tell me thank you. I can simply pick up on these things just based on their general attitude. The words themselves are meaningless platitudes. So i often get people bringing it up to me: Why don't you ever say thank you? Or my mother will ask why i never say Happy Birthday to anyone else in my family on their birthday. And i realized that i clearly do not interact with these things the same way other people do... You should be able to tell that i am thankful because of the happiness on my face and the tone of my voice. That's how i always do it with others. But apparently for most other people.. the words themselves seem to have some intrinsic value for some reason. If i do something nice for someone, and i see them smile, and their mood improve, THAT is all i need to know that they are extremely appreciative of my efforts. I don't need them to spell it out for me. But i guess other people do...? Every time i have tried to force myself to use these words, it just feels wrong. It feels like i am simply throwing out words that have no intrinsic value in order to surface-level please the other person or myself, rather than actually reading the social interaction at its core. The words are just a façade. What is important is what is beneath them; not the words themselves.
Think of it less like you have to spell it out and more that your facial expressions and body language are enhanced by your words. It makes your reaction doubly authentic, rather than ambiguous by your reactions. A lot of people sometimes don't pay attention to facial cues or body language, and if they do, they might see happiness, not gratitude. Saying it makes your feelings unambiguous and clearly communicated.
@@CB66941 The fact that you see a difference in Happiness and Gratitude is what makes me realize i am different than most. To me, i don't see a difference. If someone is happy directly because of my actions, then i consider my actions a success. I don't look for "gratitude". The happiness IS gratitude. I don't expect or want people to say thank you to me. Because i am not looking for their "gratitude" when i do them a favor. I am looking to do what i can to make their life a little easier or happier if i am able. The fact that i can see i made them happy is what makes me happy. I am not looking for them to serve me platitudes for my ego. I don't expect or want people to say Happy Birthday to me. Because i don't consider my birthday a special day. Its just another day on the calendar. Just because its the day i came out of my mother doesn't really mean it holds some significance. And so when someone says Happy Birthday to me, i feel like its not like its really important or needed to be said. They are only saying it because they have been culturally taught that its EXPECTED of them to say it. My most likely guess as to why i am this way is because my mother constantly taught me when i was very young that "Actions speak louder than words". And that caused me to not put a lot of value into words. Whats important is peoples actions. People can say sorry all day long. But it doesn't matter. What matters is if their ACTIONS show that they feel regret. Their words have no bearing on the authenticity of their apology, only their actions do.
In any debate I've ever seen destiny in he's the one who usually gets worked up the most. It's really hard to have an intelligent conversation with someone like him.
@@milhouse8166 Regardless of, I like the dude and it is nice to see him in these sort of conversations. Though I can tell that he struggles to be in any context that isn't arguing with someone else about anything.
@@HexagonSun990 I'm sure he brings up certain points about things which are correct but you can tell he's only using that to show that he's smart or knowledgeable even if it means maniuplating and obscuring the context of the debate. He's very ego driven and not capable of facing certain truths.
@@milhouse8166 Tbf he’s so used to arguing with the most combative, toxic people on the internet that he’s got only one mode when a disagreement arises.
This was one of the best interviews for me personally. I have been a huge fan of Destiny and he has impacted me greatly. Glad to finally see him address his more emotional side with doctor k. I also have similar problems with tangling my emotions with others emotion/my perceptions of their emotions.
The funny thing with Doctor K's audience hating Steven is that if he continues to grow by making more appearances on major platforms you'll mysteriously see even his most ardent disavowers suddenly start changing their tune. That might be for a variety of reasons, maybe it's the mere exposure effect, maybe he's actually just making better arguments and conducting himself in a manner that's more tolerable to a wider variety of people, or maybe it was simply cool to hate him before because your favorite "socialist" streamer said so and now since that guy is quickly fading from relevance you don't feel inclined to carry his flag anymore. Whatever the reason may be, it's just funny to watch it happen. People are slaves to their social groups.
1:25:41 yes it does. specifically about being insecure about it being alright to feel/think that way. not clearly feeling like you have the right to think that way is another way to put it
6:34
Literally doing the lords work
Mvp
I’m glad to be number 69
Thank you, sir!
I hope your pillow is extra cold tonight (if that's your thing)
@06:38 Dr K enters and talks about previous interactions with Destiny
@09:03 Destiny enters
@10:45 What Dr. K has been up to
@13:40 Are people even talking about tech addiction?
@18:56 Discussion on honing our perception
@22:15 Retrospective analysis to improve work
@28:12 What Destiny's been up to and how he's grown objective and subjectively
@36:10 Ridding oneself of all bias
@40:12 Logic can be hijacked by emotions
@43:50 Discussion about intentional binding
@47:00 Making decisions and their rewards
@50:15 Dr K's 3 different conversation threads
@52:29 Discussion on biological determinism
@57:36 Plateaus and breaking through them
@58:20 Destiny's dismissive avoidant attachment (where it gets interesting imo)
@01:02:43 An issue of state not trait
@01:05:26 Destiny being a people pleaser, but also not wanting people to care about him
@01:13:17 Pros of being an independent child
@01:16:25 To change or not to change things
@01:19:20 Understanding Destiny's mind and feeling responsible for other people's feelings
@01:22:47 Destiny's self-judgement and struggle with compliments ----- insecurity?
@01:27:40 Being responsible for other people's feelings again (and protecting Dr K's feels)
@01:33:00 A time when Destiny made people unhappy and was punished for it
@01:36:30 Being relied on and Destiny's relationships
@01:42:11 Is Destiny a sociopath?
@01:44:37 What's wrong with letting people down?
@01:46:34 Destiny's vasana and compassion
@01:49:30 How Destiny perceives and gives compliments and Dr K's advice
@02:02:10 Dr K talking about compassion and admitting we've been hurt
@02:07:10 The technicalities of compliments
@02:11:45 Omega form
@02:16:27 The boundary between you and another person
@02:19:10 Being an asshole
@02:21:34 Realtime example of Destiny learning(!!!)
@02:22:25 Dr K's journey with Eastern medicine and it's place in the West and a rehash of the Dr Mike episode
@02:36:02 How Dr K practices Eastern medicine in the West
@02:38:50 Removing the East from Eastern medicine - sandwich analogy
@02:45:15 Dr K's reflection on Ayurvedic research
@02:47:40 Heuristics and their functional utilities
@02:50:08 Cultural appropriation of Eastern medicine
@02:51:45 Dr K gives us concepts to think about
Ty fam 🙏🏻
I hope you find a $100 bill on the ground today
It's people like you that keep the world turning
Bless ye
goat
What a blast this conversation was. Very relatable. Thanks doc.
I am a 55 year old woman with ADHD and Steven reminds me so much of myself. I believe the problem to ask for or accept help have a lot to do with the fear of being a disappointment to others.
Example- what if you get the help and you still don’t get it right.
@@EvdsChannelthere is a chance, yes. I'm avoiding help too, but it kinda damaged my relationships, when people can do nothing to help you, they feel disconnected and not close
i would imagine its not related to adhd
@@AXharoth No, it absolutely is. Can attest. A lot of people with ADHD have huge difficulties with relationships because we struggle with commitments and scheduling time for others, we can be difficult to communicate with because we can have trouble listening to others, we might cut you off or hijack a conversation, without any ill intent, and gennerally speaking we also just tend to have huge insecurity and anxiety issues. Another way of looking at this is the correlation between anxiety, depression, autism and ADHD. Destiny is lucky that he seems to have developed really good strategies for productivity, so he's probably an example of a more secure ADHD'er, but when you look at the stats of how likely people with ADHD are to have had issues with work, colleagues, managers, getting laid-off, etc, and the tendency for us to drop out of school, or not complete education at a level that would otherwise be appropriate for our intelligence, it becomes really understandable that a lot of us feel like we're failing ourselves and the people we know. When you feel like a failure, but you recognize that given your intelligence and capabilities you should be performing better, it becomes really easy to feel like a burden and develope shame and embarrassment around asking for help or having to depend on others.
Maybe as the cpontent on internet become more engaging or healthy and organic way, people will actually be more inspired
to follow mostly organic content anda lso replace it with meeting face to face in real ebvents outside in healthy groups.
I mean for example yoga people or sport people, or music people etc
There should be some "screen detox" therapy or topic
or better say "click detox"
because people make maybe 11 000 clicks per day without even realizing it consciously.
This has gotta be one of the best conversations you've had with any streamers
Just arrived with low expectations 😅, I hope you’re right!
@@doomertube7050 why low? Destiny consistently has great convos
His convos with Destiny are almost always great. The last one about adhd meds was a little slow bc it was super specific, but in general that riff off one another super well. They’re both smart, and I think Dr. K is about as good as conversations/communication as Destiny is at Debates. Which is to say, one of the best online.
@@Bellamy_Koby I was a fan of Destiny for a time & find him to be too argumentative (as opposed to collaborative) and needlessly aggressive in debate at his worst. I only say that because I do think he’s very bright, just sometimes falls victim to the identity politics & clickbait era we live in
@@specialknees6798 I agree that Dr K is an expert communicator and will have no problem keeping things on rails (: Destiny is a great debater but I hate seeing him “lose his cool” in some of those said debates
I like how a channel about positivity and mental health health has a bunch really toxic comments towards the guest. Destiny isn't on here to debate anyone, he's having a human-to-human conversation about his personal issues. Regardless of your opinions towards him, you should be able to sypathize with a person who is trying to sort out long-standing issues in the way they see others. If anything, Destiny would come out of this talk being a more compassionate person. You guys should want this.
real and true idk how this channel has so much toxicity
@@alexandermacneil4430 I don't think that's true.
@@alexandermacneil4430 Perhaps you should check your biases... or maybe your perception? Since when has he ever claimed that or treated them as such?
He said Israel should "just finish" its genocid3 on Gaza. How compassionate.
@@spirit_theyarehere Where does he say that?
Destiny mentioned in this that he tries to be aware of biases against people he doesn't like. I'm glad I checked my bias against him, and went ahead and watched. I felt a lot of myself I'm destiny here and learned a whole lot from this.
yeah he suffers a lot from his total refusal to put his best foot forward hahaha
Y'know, I always thought SINISTAR and Destiny might have some things in common.
this is BIG
@@spartanparty3894 so funny hahahaha not
He’s super off putting if you don’t agree with him, but if you give him a chance he doesn’t go into decisions based on aesthetic or emotion
Your conversations with Destiny are so great. I always walk away having more insight and direction into my own life
watched it live, one of the best conversations you've ever had with any of the streamers.
Destiny is s pyscho bruh
@@jttyler6419 gotcha, anything else?
@@jttyler6419 Okay lol
2:21:34 there's so many things that kinda resonated with me and this exact moment where I would probably said the same about "ok we should cut the call because you mentioned" (and in my mind would be something like ok he probably wanted to cut because we could got too many hours or he's busy or just don't wanna talk more so I should "flow" with the first sentence and say yeah we should cut), but then Destiny apply what Dr. K was talking and damn... it really felt like an eye opening, like those who wear glasses and then you just clean it and never realized how dirty they were until you actually clean it. Also the respond of Dr. K sound geniue like "ok we can talk but I have just 20min if that ok with you". I feel like I learn a lot, thank you so much for talking!
the lesson is some people learned too well to not be selfish , but it goes too far sometime and you actually need to learn to be more "selfish" , but i guess a better word is self loving , but also its important to not assume automatically that youre bothering that they are busy , that they dont have time bla bla bla , ask rather than automatically assuming all that negative stuff
@@AXharoth yup sound so simple but at the same time so complex when I want to do it. I hope I remember this for the next time that happens
AOE healing baby
@@Snow_is_Phertil YEAH BABYYYYYY
Wooh let go baby
Dr. K sets the scene 6:34
Destiny joins 9:02
I hope you find a $20 bill on the ground today
Me too
I hope your pillow is of adequate temperature on both sides
You’re a sweetie🫶
*Intro & Disclaimer:*
- Welcoming Destiny & Disclaimer: 6:34
- History of Interactions & Addressing Concerns: 07:02
- Platforming & Dialogue: 07:50
- Technical Setup & Gratitude: 08:14
*Conversation with Destiny:* 9:02
- Recent Activities & Content Creation: 10:37
- Technology Addiction & Societal Impact of the Internet: 12:43
- Misdiagnosis of Social Ills & The Role of Cellphones: 13:40
- Honing Perception & "Glishta": 18:49
- Therapy, Replay Analysis, & Introspection: 21:37
- Destiny's Success & Personal Growth: 28:10
- ADHD Medication & Replay Analysis in StarCraft II: 30:30
- Destiny's Subjective Experience of Growth: 32:04
- Emotional Independence & Intellectual Humility: 32:31
- Balancing Internal Foundations & External Criticism: 34:08
- Biases & Intentional Awareness: 36:28
- Logic, Ego, & Addictive Brain: 40:46
- Intentional Binding & Repeating Actions: 43:48
- Divorcing Results from Decision-Making: 46:49
- Intentional Binding in Gaming: 48:56
*Dismissive Avoidant Attachment & its Impact:*
- Difficulty with Confrontation & Setting Expectations: 58:57
- State vs. Trait & Fluctuations in the Mind: 1:02:27
- People-Pleasing & Internal Objectives: 1:07:03
- Learning Social Interaction & High School Experience: 1:08:53
- Independence & Discomfort with Care: 1:10:57
- Genuine Interest & Selective Dependency: 1:13:20
- Discomfort with Compliments & Filtering Through Perception: 1:23:57
- The "Burden" of Kindness & Transactional Relationships: 1:52:19
- Authentic Compliments & Changing Perception: 1:54:36
- The Power of Observation & Disentangling Self from Others: 2:07:06
- Compassion vs. Empathy & The License for Assholery: 2:19:15
*Eastern vs Western Medicine:*
- The Role of Eastern Medicine in Contemporary Mental Health: 2:21:40
- Dr. Mike Conversation & Ayurveda: 2:23:13
- Subjective vs. Objective Approaches & Sample Size of One: 2:26:03
- External Validity & Individualized Treatment: 2:26:49
- The Limitations of RCTs & Naturalistic Studies: 2:30:09
- The Importance of Informed Consent & Evidence-Based CAM: 2:36:15
- Integrating Ayurvedic Principles & Ethical Considerations: 2:37:27
- Scientific Verification & The "Sandwich Analogy": 2:40:09
- The Value of Epistemic Frameworks & The Materialist Problem: 2:46:26
*Outro & Announcements:* 2:51:35
destiny actually getting therapized dr k made him introspect about things hes never considered this was a very interesting watch
Not therapy btw
Not a cult dggL
@@robbiesarris9072 For technically legal reasons it's not. For common sense reasons it is.
@@robbiesarris9072it’s probably somewhat therapy, but I wouldn’t call it it psychiatry.
@@WolfHeathenthere was no diagnostic process ergo no therapy
More conversations with destiny!! This was so captivating thank you both!
Wow, didn't think I'd be learning stuff that's relevant to me. Thankyou Destiny for being brave and vulnerable!
@@phantom_drone do you often watch streams or just videos? a lot of what I've seen already brushed over these topics in ways that showcased what he struggled with before, in quite a lot of arcs. I would say the only difference was that this was a much better deep dive and deconstruction on what to actually do to change those issues, thanks to Dr. K
destiny is a girls name.
Ah, but is that by convention or necessity? Because if it’s the former, then it need not stay true.
Sorry, but that’s stupid.
Best comment.
Lmao i can tell 100% you got banned from his UA-cam comments
😭😭😭the reference
jesus christ how do you make a 3 hour talk feel like it was cut short LOL ???
Repent to God
@@youngbaggerz6944 hypocritical preaching
@@youngbaggerz6944 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.”
Dr. K's the best
Really enjoyed this conversation. I hope Dr.K goes on to Destiny's podcast
u/notsoerudite
Yeah that’s a good idea, maybe he can teach Dr. K how to say the n word.
I relate to so much shit that Destiny says, but I think I'm far FAR less capable than him in the confidence (or "condifence") department, but also (thus?) more able to see when things like not wanting help are related to my insecurities, and boy it's so fun and rewarding to watch Dr K kinda coax this stuff out of him. That said, I feel like A LOT of people would be more easily coaxed. The fact that Stephen said he has NO idea why he has a hard time accepting compliments and Dr K smiled, I was like ooofffft this stuff is buried DEEP. DEEP!!!! with this guy.
I love it when you guys talk together. Thanks!
Not sure who doesn’t like Steven from this community, but one thing is true. Dr.K and Steven have arguably the most authentic personalities styles in this community. Cheers to many more interviews going forward between you two.
Based lovepost. Love these convos between them too. I think most of the people who dislike destiny get it from other peoples characterization of him not actually consuming his content.
Pfffft, Destiny is an insincere grifter.
i think probably a lot of people in this community resonably hate him due to his opinions on current events
@@terminaldeity since you're so sure he is a grifter could you source out actual evidence bro ?
@@terminaldeity what makes you say that?
Awesome to see you guys chat, hope you can discuss more about Eastern and Western Medicine in the future. Perhaps on bridges?
Did you see his video with Dr. Mike on his channel? I think they talk about it there!
@mordant9495 That is precisely why it is being asked, Dr.Mike is very smart and knowledgeable but did not necessarily have the skillset to navigate the conversation the way he clearly wanted and destiny as well as his fan base both felt this way, even though they leaned more towards DrK as a person
@@Erik-mf5zoYeah, a lot of that conversation needed some knowledge or at least some experience in thinking about the Philosophy of Science, the conversation was a bit circular at times.
@@mordant9495 i feel like K wasent prepared to have a debate, and aside from that Mike had already made his mind on Eastern medicine so it was a bit chaotic and unclear convo which is why Destiny said that he came with a different impression to many people who saw it as dr K being exposed
One thing that was bushed over in this topic was when Destiny mentioned that his family was very religious. Anecdotally I have noticed many people (especially men) who grow up religious turn to hyper-intellectualism when they leave their faith.
They tend to obsess over debate, philosophy, and requiring empirical proof of every little thing. It almost seems like they are afraid to just take anything on faith or feeling because of the trauma that comes feeling fooled by religion growing up.
There's nothing inherently wrong with these topics, but it's often used very defensively and to justify being mean to their critics.
I'd love an exploration of this topic, as I see it play out in so many people.
really really enjoying this one. helps me a lot to see sth close to a therapy session with someone who intellectualizes the shit out of everything, could relate to a lot of it
He tries to intellectualize. He's so clearly not an intellectual.
Gatekeeping intelligence based on fuckall lets go!
@@WolfHeathen rather than casting judgment on others on a channel about self improvement and mental health. We should strive towards making an environment where people can be vulnerable and not immediately on edge by calling into question whether they’re an “intellectual”.
@@9999ping it's insane how everything that Dr. K tries to express is thrown out the window as soon as he talks with people that chat doesn't like. Like what are they even gaining from these conversations if they turn this hostile?
@@maxcleghorn it's not inherently hostile to correct a false title people give someone
1:32:04 - i never expected to relate to steven so much. relationships are so burdensome for him-not because he's a bad person but because he gets so little out of them in return for how much effort they take. there's so much sadness and loneliness in having to live like this, but at least it's "safe" and predictable, and peaceful, and quiet. i imagine there's very little "noise" in steven's personal life. no one he has to "keep happy", so he's free to focus on his work, which for him as a content creator is basically 24/7. good thing that, as it keeps him distracted from how dissatisfied and bored he is. life has no spark when you're all alone on a little island.
p.s. i'm not trying to dissect steven, moreso i'm mapping out the nature of his pain through my personal experience of it. it's a safe pain. but it's a slow burn. and boy does it burn.
lmao
that's why i like my npcs
Man the chat was so wildly toxic for this one. never expected that from Dr. K's community
its the Destiny haters. not dr.ks community
People hate this guy. You literally can't blame them for the shit he says.
@@JoeMama-gi1soAre you trolling, or do you actually believe that?
That's the result of Twitch's mod team banning anyone who isn't a downright communist on their platform. It's an echo chamber.
@@Versace_sheets Look, it's someone who's never watched Destiny but instead only watches people who sh*t on him (let me guess, Hasan?"
1:10:14 I’ve never identified with someone so heavily. I hate it when people did things like that because it felt like they were using their emotional disregulation to hold me emotionally hostage or emotionally blackmail me and then hide behind social convention/cohesion.
Have you changed your understanding of what they're doing? Because while some people do behave in the way you mention, they're actually pretty rare. There's likely a perception issue, like Dr K discussed with Destiny
I imagine, having someone else worry about you after not having that happen all your life probably feels unfair. Like a betrayal of the way you've lived so far.
You've been denied the cake of someone being there for you, but that comes with the benefit of not having to worry about other people's perception of you. But all of a sudden someone just decided that you can't eat that cake either, and steals the freedom of being lonely from you too.
Like, thinking you've bought a singleplayer game, but turns out you were mistaken and had gotten a multiplayer game instead.
@@SukacitaYeremia great insight
These talks are so very much informative, I often find out stuff about myself through them. Like deep-deep stuff. Big thanks also to the "guests" willing to open up in front of us - what they are doing is a HUGE service to a lot of people. Thank you!
What I've figured out today (seems so obvious now) is that the way I almost never miss people is likely coming from my father being absent for a big part of my childhood (because of work and work related travels; and often when he was finally home, he was still not available as he was tired). I have noticed a long time ago, living abroad, that I don't ever feel home sick and I don't really miss people (not even family and close friends), but never gave a deep thought to why that is. (I'm not sure if the lack of home sickness is related, but it feels that way.) On the other hand, when I really care for someone (romantically) it feels like all the not felt people-missing is all coming out at once and I really suffer.
So now that I have figured this much out, I have no idea what to do about it. 😅
You two always have some of my favorite conversations 💯
Oh, and as I finished watching the whole thing, I resonate with a lot of the things you've said. I'm a young woman with recently diagnosed severe ADHD and I weirdly embody a hyper sensitive empath combined with what you were talking about. I don't feel certain things as other people, sometimes I question those traditions, often also logically, which results in people getting offended. Brutal honesty kind of thing. It made me hide certain aspects of myself, since I was getting hints of me being a bad person. BS. I've also had thoughts about sociopathy, even though it's ridiculous looking at how much I care at times. It's just selective and I don't think I was born that way.
About the Grandma thing, my first thought was that it's also about guilt. Idk how much of it you've actually felt, but for me it was always an underlying byproduct of taking responsibility for everyone's feelings. No one wants to feel that way and I get it so much since such things irritate me too and people like to use "I'm staying up all night because of you" to guilt trip which means pure manipulation. I experienced it "million" times and it's not only caring in my opinion, often they expect you to accomodate according to their internal state. On one hand I get it that someone would worry, I'm like that too, and I'm guilty of such behaviours myself. But staying up at night would be just too much. It's putting way too much responsibility on someone indeed. It depends, is it just caring or is it suffocating and controlling, because one can perceive it as both and it also depends on the way in which those things are delivered. The fact that it bothers you, shows that you were made responsible for the feelings of others as a kid and that's why you take it that way (I get it). It's a vulnerability and that shield of "not caring" and being hyper rational protects that hyper attunement to others, which is reasonable. Finding the balance would include being receptive and attuned which would not lead to that amount of hurt if you'd implement boundaries and that separation Dr K mentioned. It's not an easy road, so have fun, from another people pleaser, and those are indeed hallmarks of DA attachment style in your case. Especially with some amount of alexythymia.
Only about halfway through so far but it's scary how much I relate to this. Actually had tears at one point. Thank you both for this.
It is truly wild how many times Destiny said how “stupid” or “dumb” something he just said was. I’ve never seen that side of his inner dialogue before.
Always love ur interactions happy y'all were able to share this experience.
2:29:32 I take Olanzapine, it cured my insomnia, I also gained 20lbs. I was fairly skinny before so it worked out, but I gained that 20 and have stopped gaining or losing any weight since. Which honestly is freeing as I don't have to worry about my weight in either direction anymore.
One aspect that I was able to relate to was when they were discussing “not wanting to disappoint people”. The example destiny gave was meeting up with fans at a festival of some sort.
For me, and I suspect for destiny as well, the biggest issue I run into is I’m never sure if I’ll want to go when the time comes. So if someone asks me “hey do you want to go to this party next week”, in my mind I genuinely have no clue if I’ll want to go or not. Some days I’ll wake up and be down for anything, other days I don’t want to leave my bed. It’s hard for me to say yes or no, so often times I’ll give a middle of the road answer, or simply say yes and then later make an excuse/ghost or whatever if I don’t want to do it after all. It sounds to me like that’s what’s going on with destiny, but I could just be projecting
This was such an incredible discussion to watch! Thank you, Dr. K and Destiny!
I loved the conversation! It’s always a pleasure to hear you both speak. I felt like you both really connected and I took away a few really meaningful insights I am going to try to apply to my own life. ❤
This was the first time I got a chance to catch a live stream from Dr. K. There were a lot of relatable moments for me when listening to destiny talk about these thought processes and how he feels about certain situations. The information and advice of Dr.K was/is very helpful to me. Thank you Dr.K and Destiny for allowing this conversation to be watched by us.
65 year old boomer here: It seems like our generation said "I think" as the default expression... For example; "I think it's too cold to go out." "I think people are spending more time on the internet"... while the younger genertions use "I feel" as the default... "I feel like it too cold to go out." "I feel like people are spending more time on the internet." Good, bad or otherwise, I think younger people are more in touch with their feelings and give them more credence than us older folks. Destiny reminded me because he seems to "feel" his ideas and opinions as he expresses them.
I wouldn’t read that much into it boomer.
It's certainly something interesting to think about.
For me, I use "I feel..." when I know my opinion is more rooted in intuition than anything I can concretely probe within that moment.
And to that same effect, I use "I think..." when I can recall the opinion I'm stating being backed up by facts, but I can't quite recall those facts with accuracy within that moment.
It's a subtle, but fascinating distinction.
I think/feel like (lol) that's a quite accurate observation! Although I'd say it's still only limited to bubbles where mental health is prioritized
I feel like you read too much into how he words things. But then again, that's not what I think.
That is an incredible insight. Thank you for this, Joni. I'm nearly 40 years old, and I'm trying to understand the difference, and you just highlighted the issue. At my age, I suspect that people use the two interchangeably, which might be the transition.
Dr K should chat with Gerbert Johnson, he's like a black pill youtuber but he's really young and really smart, a conversation between them would be really interesting.
Ah yes you follow this man? I shall pray for you brother
He do maje funny videos, so why not?@@CrilpFlorp
Would be amazing, I need Dr. K to give me hope with some of the stuff gerby talks about
Why?? I think that’s really stupid. Destiny will win the debate as “DrK” has nothing on her
@@ElS3rnathere is no hope in black pill. All of that content is meant to make you feel bad
At first i wasn't really feeling this conversation, but god this turned into such a good talk that resonated with me so much. Thanks Dr. K, I think this conversation is more helpful to people that even you might realize. I'm always super excited when you get to talk this personally with Destiny
I feel that Dr. K is one of the most important people in all of the west right now for what he is shining light upon. Thank you so much!
this is the purest example of not all heroes wear capes. this man's crossover between east and west practices while just being a great human is what is making him the goat
I think you just gave me my 100th foot for irrigation. Thank you. Truly.
Pleeeease have the conversation where you expand on the last part. I am so excited for this! I was looking for exactly this kind of dialogue between "eastern" and "western" epistomology and learned so much just from this short introduction. Thank you
Love to these two talking. I think a lot of people have a bad impression of destiny based on the things they’ve heard but seeing him actually speak shows he’s a pretty smart and interesting dude.
yes if people paid attention they would see that he has good intentions , hes tryign to be good and do good
I have listened to him closely in long form conversations. I think he thinks he has good intentions but his behavior runs counter to his supposed intention@@AXharoth
@@weatheredseeker What did he do that makes you think that?
@@bigzed7908 from what I've seen and could be wrong, he either doesn't believe in greater truth or isn't committed to it. He seems to prioritize argument itself over what should be the end goal which is more complete understanding. This is normal for people online though
@@weatheredseeker I'm pretty regarded but can you provide an example or more specific things because I still don't get it. Destiny does love to debate, but I don't know if he's trying to debate for the sake of debate. Even when he's the most edgy like when he debates over topics like insect, it is done because he believes he can articulate and has confidence in his stance even when it is tried against the strongest argument on the other side without simply saying "No it's bad.".
He's a pretty argumentative person and likes to make people on the other side look stupid but I think that also can be a good thing? If someone is correct and really confident with their position to sell it out to other people then they should be giddy to test it out and hear counterarguments from people like Destiny?
This video helped me out so much . I started to feel like I was the only one on earth with these thoughts
Destiny saying he didn't want his father to be supportive of him in that one instance kinda hit me because when I was a kid I was in a tournament and both my parents had to work and I told them it was OK that they didn't need to be there for me but the truth was that I really needed them there. When I won the tournament I felt like nobody cared for me. So even though as a kid we say we don't want our parents to support us and we try to be independent, it actually does matter that they take interest in us and cheer for us. It can be embarassing if they are there but at the end of the day it matters a great deal.
I love Destinity and I love Dr. K and I love how you guys maintain a connection and understanding through time. Is something that give me hope on humanity. No joke
Recommend not reading chat at all during this for both perceivable reasons.
Ye the live chat is completely unhinged when these guys talk.
A little fact correction, the martini clinic in germany is focused on prostate cancer and adjacent conditions. But the work they have done is amazing, they are also one of the few places globally which record outcome measures.
Including patient reported outcome measures
can i just say and i don't mean this as a dig or anything but as an audhd (autism+adhd) guy i relate to this dude quite a lot and i mean it in the most positive way possible like i feel seen in some ways
Destiny has ADHD and has suspected himself of having autism (though Im not 100% sure how confident he was about the latter)
As someone who as a 30 something has JUST been diagnosed with high-functioning autism, it also quite resonated with me. So many parts of this, but mostly learning how to be quite adept in social situations by observing and copying what others did, viewing the world almost like a giant stage and seeing everyone else performing and stealing the best performances to shape my own social understanding. Also, the annoyance of having someone like a parent or grandparent care so much for you that they'd constantly stay up for you and always ask questions about your day- like Destiny, i always would find this irritating behavior from my mom because it felt like it crossed boundaries, but i could never pinpoint why until i got into therapy myself a year or two ago. Destiny def is on the spectrum- it's obvious if you've ever watched him before, but this conversation and these stories just solidified it for me.
drk looks like such a badass when he lets himself mess with people (when he knows they won't be hurt by it ofc) using these super-deep things he knows about them
A thing that has helped me with my neurotic behaviors, like creating scenarios based on past experiences, is to think about what could be if the fear that underlies these scenarios is not true and also how likley are the premises that is required for that fear to be true. For example, dealing with abandonment can lead to a lot of intrusive thoughts based on fear related to the people you love, I try to move the focus from the negative 'what if' to the positive 'what if' so that I don't get carried away by overanalyzing things.
Basically when i value the positive i can get out of things, insted of the negative, it helps me with doing things in a strive for something instead of a fear of something else
You can tell Steven is really internalizing the dialogue at 2:05:00. He slows down his speaking a bit. I really feel like he's taking it all in now.
Yeah I agree
this got real, really appreciate the honesty here, i think alot of us can relate.
I appreciate the way Dr. K. explains how to maintain interdependence while setting boundaries with people. Being compassionate while being centered and a stable ground for people who are struggling and suffering is a healthy relationship. It's different from being overly empathic, enmeshed, and merging and fusing with them as the latter drowns both in a codependent dynamic.
Got dank! That hit real hard Dr. K! I relate a lot with Destiny, but I never internalized any reason why. A lot of what you talked about is very relevant to myself. I will have to listen to this again. Love the book even though I don't have kids. I did buy a hard cover and gifted it just cause I think it's super important information!
Much love Dr. K! ❤️
This was very interesting. Thank you for sharing this. It takes a lot of courage to open up about personal issues.
As a Destiny fan, Dr. K puts joy in my soul
"It's rough isn't it? Tell me about that." This is such an amazing conversation
it's weird to see Dest this vulnerbale. for allof the quick thinking, quick talking and combative debating style, it shows we're all complex and with issues and vulnerabilities.
I think a lot of the people who do not like destiny need to hear this conversation more than most.
Yes. We need to hear from the genocide apologist. Thank you for the advice.
You're welcome. Hope you have a nice day, anything fun planned for the weekend?
No I would not classify him in that way. Yet the point was listening to in meaningful ways to find helpful or important information from speakers you do not agree with or like as a person for one reason or another. This is a key topic discussed in the video and I believe that you could learn a great deal from not closing yourself off and making assumptions of other people.
So that means I have to watch this one😅
@@lwo7736you don't know what genocide means
Dr. K, I googled Biological determinism, and the top result is pretty much what Destiny is saying, so I'd use a different word for what you're talking about to avoid misunderstanding
Biological determinism is more broad than just race though. In recent years the neuroscientific and philosophical discussion has been more directly related to whether or not free will exists, which is what Dr. K was referring to. Definitely could've been clearer and just used the word free will tho
Google is only going to feed you the most ideologically-driven search results. Do not mistake that with reality, but rather the guise of it.
Perhaps use combine context and use more than the first result on google.
Ahh, the top result says it, so it must be true! Meanwhile Dr K’s use of the word is completely correct
@@Beau136 No, there's a big difference between Determinism without the word Biological in front of it and how it's used in philosophy and in a way that yes is connected to human brains and some biology but still. Semantics matter. Biological determinism isn't what Dr K actually meant. He was just talking about free will vs determinism.
This was absolutely great
Fantastic conversation! Destiny for sure gained respect from me after this, him being willing to work on himself is a great great thing. Also I learned about myself as well (which is why I’m here) so for that I’m very thankful!
A big problem with social media is that it is *in theory* connecting you to all human beings in the world, but *in reality* connecting you to a very comparatively small subset of human beings.
So the perception is, I don’t have a friend group/bubble, I am one with humanity, I can control who I speak to when, it if everyone in existence. While in fact you *do* have a friend group/community/bubble… With almost zero control over who is in and out of that circle.
Our circle is under control of algorithms. And our circle has a lot of influence over how we develop, how we see ourselves, how we see the world. Which means with social media, we have little control over those things… while also believing we are free from any control/influence from any system or group.
The cognitive dissonance of that is this huge gulf, an overwhelming chasm… That is completely invisible to us. And when we trip over that chasm, that’s a real head-trip. Or we deny that the gulf exists for our own self-preservation.
Thank you for your comment, I was going to skip this video despite being a fan of Dr. K and his conversations with other streamers, because of how much of a dislike I had for destiny after watching him on @whatever. Every other person is commenting how much they relate to him, when, at least having not watched the video yet, I can’t think of a single person that I would probably relate to less.
I think it’s interesting how doctor K is genuinely hinting towards extremely traumatic things that could’ve happened and destiny feels completely emotionless about them. It’s a scary thing to process
from his face i think you can guess when he feels pain, he makes grimaces or bites his teeth. by his own admission he wants people to not care for him. showing negative emotions might cause people to do exactly that, which he doesn't want to happen.
I was dying to see these two together and I’m a huge fan of them both. I already watched this on Destiny’s channel and now I’m here to give Dr K some appreciation.
dr k: be authentic
destiny: posts beef on twitter the next day
dr k: noooot like that dude.
Thank you so much for this conversation (and conversations like this generally). I loved every second of it. Destiny and Dr K truly make a great conversation duo.
never seen a convo with destiny like this. Dr. K is so good at what he does. And great on destiny for opening up, i empathize with him
Too bad he doesn't emphasize with innocent Palestinians being murdered, starved, and displaced :(
@@alexandermacneil4430 well, he seems to try, regardless of his opinions of the conflict. Not that you'd care, you are just on a weird twitter ego trip
Not really relevant to this conversation anyway is it?
@@alexandermacneil4430Clearly untrue, on top of being irrelevant
@@morphkogan8627 innocents on both sides have died from each others' hands. I side with neither of them. They should both cease this pointless violence
@@fyoutube2294 okay...? How is that relevant lol. Nobody cares about your opinion on the topic bro
It's great to see platforms fostering constructive dialogue, especially in a time where understanding different perspectives is crucial. 🌟 By engaging in respectful conversations like this, we can bridge divides and cultivate a more empathetic and informed society.
Dr K out here bridging the divide.
Awsome video, love these kinds over videos
1:48:43 He circumnavigated sociopathy and ended up in compassion, never heard it put that way before
1:13:00 I got goosebumps because of how close this has hit home for me with what Destiny is talking about its actually hard for me to not tear up a bit dude that independent growth from childhood provides benefits but fuck me there is some weird shit that happens to our sense of like love and comfort from people in general because of it. I gotta get back into therapy ima get on that after work
thanks so much, destiny, for sharing this part of you!! i already loved all convos btwn dr. k & destiny, but this one was so special and relatable.
I don’t have to like Destiny to respect his level of candor and not acting like an immature person.
It’s hard to come by these days. Immensely valuable.
He's hands down the most polite, accommodating and welcoming interviewer ever.
This is the most vurnerable I have seen Destiny and I weirdly appreciate him giving into the experince on camera. People shouldn't trash him for it.
He had to compensate for it on twitter the next day by being a "little bit" unhinged
@@DudokXyou must be coming from a Hasan stream 😂😂. You guys are such haters. He’s the only good faith political content creator who actually believes what he says. I’ve been watching destiny for the past 3 years and he’s never let me down a single time, I’ve disagreed with him, but I never got the sense he was trying to mislead his audience.
@@jaykay2218I 100% agree, if I ever quote or fact check destiny he's always right. And that's what I love about him.
I love conversations with destiny because of the way you two communicate in this particular space. Observation based - trying to listen to the music. I learned lots. Especially about how we should be more honest with ourselves when interacting with others. Now, it's how can we communicate our honest selves in a respectful way and not in an asshole way.
Phenomenal conversation.
2:20:26 - I think overlapping the concepts of sociopathy and centeredness like this is risky - it's probably better to say that being centered and free of anticipation and attachment to specific responses from others can look like or get confused with sociopathy, but the internal workings and outcomes are very different.
It also bears mentioning that having low emotional reactivity can also be a workable personal trait or pattern very different from sociopathy, but also distinct from healthy emotional distance. And it may or may not, depending on the case, overlap with trama-induced or learned/conditioned alexythymia.
Thoughts, at least.
Love how Dr.K nerds out everytime with Destiny. I think they access a certain part in each other's psyche, which is why there's so much warmth.
this was an amazing discussion. i only know of destiny what his Tweets and Reddit posts show him to be... so i had absolutely no idea how this was going to go
it was incredibly intriguing to see. informative as well.
2:03:15
I GOT MY ARMCHAIR PSYCHOANALYSIS GOIN RIGHT NOW. But nah, Steven here looks like I do when someone I love or deeply admire gives me hard truth advice that I know is:
1) correct
2) something I really needed to hear
Even if it isn't something I find too important, the look on someone's face when they're secretly taken aback is just so easy to spot sometimes (at least for me. God knows I give that EXACT same look when I get told something I have no response to, because any response I could give as an excuse or a counter can get easily reflected back to me and both of us know it).
Thank you both. I can heavily relate, minus my tremendous lack of personal success.
I really enjoyed listening to how destiny describes himself. I learned a lot about him and myself. Thanks destiny for your courage 😊
The courage to say the N word. Nebraska Steve is so brave!
Jonathan Haidt talks about the impact of cell phones and internet on teenagers - has a new book and is all over talk shows (and UA-cam). He also has a campaign to get cell phones out of teens’ hands and out of schools.
Bro got that ayurvedic medicine music intro. Lol
I had stomach issue the longest time. I went to the doctors and I got prescribed a medicine. I tried it for 6 months and it seemed not to work. The Doctors told me to take the medicine for longer (2 years). I tried this and it still did not work.
I went to a new Doctor which prescribed me 3 different medicines that I was supposed to take for 3 weeks. Everything was solved and I was happy. Until 5 years later because of unhealthy life choices. I informed the doctor that they should prescribe me what I took last time because it fixed the problem. Their answer was "No" and that I should take the old medicine that did not work for me.
I tried fighting them but they did not give in. I tried it another year, then I went to a new Doctor again.
So I do really hear what Dr K is saying here. You should consider the data, but you also see the individual.
Thank you for sharing your conversation.
You guys are better than Netflix.
I totally understand the compliments thing, I don’t know how to take them either and don’t know why I struggle.
Can you elaborate? I feel like most compliments I get are fake, but I don’t really care. At the end of the day the thing being communicated is a positive impression the other person has a of you.
@@phantom_drone true, a lot of compliments are fake and are just there to keep up an appearance
for me at least, what helped was knowing that these ppl are gonna leave and betray me the minute it's appropriate and just keep my cards to myself
obviously, that doesn't mean you can't be nice. nah, bro, smile, say thanks, even feel free to give them a friendly nudge, but when push comes to shove, you at least know that you can't trust them and can act appropriately
This was super fun and I did not expect to learn today that there's other indexing systems for research leading to it being "off the radar" basically.
The part where at 1:09:47 where Steven brings up not socializing with others the same way other people do rings so relatable to me.
I never really feel right saying things like Please/Thank You/Sorry/Happy Birthday/etc. And its not because i don't feel thankful, or sorry, or respect, its because in MY mind, these concepts never need being said aloud. I always put all of my value on interactions in actions rather than words. I don't want people to tell me sorry. I don't want people to tell me thank you. I can simply pick up on these things just based on their general attitude. The words themselves are meaningless platitudes.
So i often get people bringing it up to me: Why don't you ever say thank you? Or my mother will ask why i never say Happy Birthday to anyone else in my family on their birthday.
And i realized that i clearly do not interact with these things the same way other people do...
You should be able to tell that i am thankful because of the happiness on my face and the tone of my voice. That's how i always do it with others. But apparently for most other people.. the words themselves seem to have some intrinsic value for some reason.
If i do something nice for someone, and i see them smile, and their mood improve, THAT is all i need to know that they are extremely appreciative of my efforts. I don't need them to spell it out for me. But i guess other people do...?
Every time i have tried to force myself to use these words, it just feels wrong. It feels like i am simply throwing out words that have no intrinsic value in order to surface-level please the other person or myself, rather than actually reading the social interaction at its core. The words are just a façade. What is important is what is beneath them; not the words themselves.
Think of it less like you have to spell it out and more that your facial expressions and body language are enhanced by your words.
It makes your reaction doubly authentic, rather than ambiguous by your reactions. A lot of people sometimes don't pay attention to facial cues or body language, and if they do, they might see happiness, not gratitude.
Saying it makes your feelings unambiguous and clearly communicated.
@@CB66941 The fact that you see a difference in Happiness and Gratitude is what makes me realize i am different than most.
To me, i don't see a difference. If someone is happy directly because of my actions, then i consider my actions a success. I don't look for "gratitude". The happiness IS gratitude.
I don't expect or want people to say thank you to me. Because i am not looking for their "gratitude" when i do them a favor. I am looking to do what i can to make their life a little easier or happier if i am able. The fact that i can see i made them happy is what makes me happy. I am not looking for them to serve me platitudes for my ego.
I don't expect or want people to say Happy Birthday to me. Because i don't consider my birthday a special day. Its just another day on the calendar. Just because its the day i came out of my mother doesn't really mean it holds some significance. And so when someone says Happy Birthday to me, i feel like its not like its really important or needed to be said. They are only saying it because they have been culturally taught that its EXPECTED of them to say it.
My most likely guess as to why i am this way is because my mother constantly taught me when i was very young that "Actions speak louder than words". And that caused me to not put a lot of value into words. Whats important is peoples actions. People can say sorry all day long. But it doesn't matter. What matters is if their ACTIONS show that they feel regret. Their words have no bearing on the authenticity of their apology, only their actions do.
Glad to see Jewlumni representation on this channel!
wtf
@@seyadeodin it’s a stream reference because destiny gets accused of being paid by zionists. Not a real thing
Lots of Destiny in-jokes being missed in these comments.
@@TheBlackDeath3because not everyone likes watching apartheid state defenders
@@greenbananas12378 that'd be a specific group of people not everyone.
I disagree in many aspects with Destiny but I am happy too see him talk with someone that will simply not try to argue with him.
In any debate I've ever seen destiny in he's the one who usually gets worked up the most. It's really hard to have an intelligent conversation with someone like him.
@@milhouse8166 Regardless of, I like the dude and it is nice to see him in these sort of conversations. Though I can tell that he struggles to be in any context that isn't arguing with someone else about anything.
@@milhouse8166 Getting worked up does not mean he is wrong. He is most often right regardless of feeling states.
@@HexagonSun990 I'm sure he brings up certain points about things which are correct but you can tell he's only using that to show that he's smart or knowledgeable even if it means maniuplating and obscuring the context of the debate. He's very ego driven and not capable of facing certain truths.
@@milhouse8166 Tbf he’s so used to arguing with the most combative, toxic people on the internet that he’s got only one mode when a disagreement arises.
This was one of the best interviews for me personally. I have been a huge fan of Destiny and he has impacted me greatly. Glad to finally see him address his more emotional side with doctor k. I also have similar problems with tangling my emotions with others emotion/my perceptions of their emotions.
Love these chats with Destiny, have watched every one. Dr K has a good way of bringing out another side of Destiny that isnt often seen
The funny thing with Doctor K's audience hating Steven is that if he continues to grow by making more appearances on major platforms you'll mysteriously see even his most ardent disavowers suddenly start changing their tune. That might be for a variety of reasons, maybe it's the mere exposure effect, maybe he's actually just making better arguments and conducting himself in a manner that's more tolerable to a wider variety of people, or maybe it was simply cool to hate him before because your favorite "socialist" streamer said so and now since that guy is quickly fading from relevance you don't feel inclined to carry his flag anymore. Whatever the reason may be, it's just funny to watch it happen. People are slaves to their social groups.
1:25:41 yes it does. specifically about being insecure about it being alright to feel/think that way. not clearly feeling like you have the right to think that way is another way to put it