I know it might sound melodramatic, but about 15 yrs ago I realized I didn't really have a lot of retention of who I am as a person. The goals I might've felt truly passionate about often evaporate in the long-term process of attaining them and are often superceded by new insights. I don't have much on the way of identity permanence, it seems. Now that is probably heavily influenced by childhood trauma, but still, I found I had much more of a continuous understanding of my values, personality, and sense of solidity in being the same person day after day by implementing a supportive process similar to other ADHD hacks. I have a laminated card sitting by the bed that is a personal mission statement plus the top three medium/long-term goals I've got going on right now. I read it every day and consider how aligned I feel with that statement and if not very strongly, I remind myself that old me thought these were priorities, let's stick with them. Every 6 months I have a journal prompt that opens an ongoing letter to myself about who I am, what I want out of life in the bigger picture, where I've been, where I'm going. I read the old entry and make a new one updating the information and thinking through how well I've stayed with the overall picture of myself. It's very helpful, like any external scaffolding I build to counter ADHD. I think it's also very telling...if I can't really keep track of who I am without a daily check in, then mere objects in the environment have absolutely no chance. 😮
Those are some powerful insights you have shared. I often encourage those who struggle with some similar problems to focus on their values because often they can see more permanence in that realm than they might in their goals or daily/weekly activities.
This is such a good breakdown of the concept. I have ADHD and have been working on it for the last 5 or so years of my adult life. If something is out of my sight, it just doesnt exist
Haven't been diagnosed yet. However I'm sporadically deep-diving into researching ADHD and sometimes I'm so overwhelmed at what I'm learning, I want to cry for hours Out of sight really do be out of mind What's the greatest change you had to make, Dan, in managing ADHD as an adult? Does it get easier post-diagnosis? (Presuming you got diagnosed as an adult, which, fingers crossed, I can be too soon)
exactly right. i only learnt about object permanence recently, and it definitely applies to me and my adhd. but i think of it as, it applies in a transferred/borrowed/metaphorical sense - it's not that i literally think a hidden object no longer exists, but rather that i immediately find another object to attach my attention to and forget about the former one. "out of sight, out of mind" is exactly what it is.
I really struggle with this - by struggle I mean there is a lot of agony in trying to push myself to not forget what I was just doing, why I walked in a room, trying to scan my mind to try and recall any sort of feelings of something that needed to be done that day - I'm always in a panic with a feeling that something needs to be done that has been forgotten. Interestingly though, when I forget something and let my hand gesture however "it/I" feel(s) : my hand physically performs the motion of the task that I had forgotten - My hand physically signals to my brain - externally - the thing I had cognitively forgotten. So "sprinkling salt" to remember that I came to get salt, tapping my thumb on my index finger to remember that I was looking for the remote, the motion of turning a key to remind myself I was looking for keys (or the motion of flipping the keys which I also associate with "Keys"), turning "air pages" to remember I was looking for a book. Often these hand signals are surprising in cases where I had never cognitively thought of how said task was performed, much less performing the task in such a way. I have played musical instruments and am fluent in 4 languages, is that relevant? Maybe there is more to "fidgeting" than just restlessness?
There are some studies on fidgeting that it can enhance cogntive pathways (even in mice), but I haven't heard of anyone looking at the specific motions and tying those to the content of what one is trying to keep in active memory. I don't recall patients describing this either, so maybe it is something your brain has happened upon and it works for you, and maybe your musical training enhanced the connection between physical movements and cognition.
I do this too, it’s a useful strategy for my memory, but I’m not a musician. It’s as if my body remembered the motor pattern of what was needed but my conscious thought has forgotten! And to my knowledge I don’t have ADHD… This seems like an aspect of working memory that needs to be studied!
@@katehussey2352thanks for your response. I know that there are some researchers investigating the importance of movement, including fidgeting like movements, for learning music, and have theorized that body motions may strengthen the incorporation of some types of new knowledge.
This has really helped me understand my own brain a little, thank you. I'm currently awaiting assessments for ADHD and autism (to be honest, I can't see how I DON'T fit the criteria, so it's a formality at this point) and I have learned so much about my forgetfulness. My parents could never understand how I could forget that I had to tidy my room, but if I wasn't actively looking at the mess, the thought would never come into my head. It's not that I forgot my room or the mess existed, but rather that I couldn't conjure up the thought out of thin air. Even when I was living in it and the mess was all around me, I still experienced "out of sight, out of mind" because I was focused on something else, or the moments I did think of it I wouldn't be able to do anything about it (e.g. bedtime). I say "was" but I'm still the same now. That's how I'd describe it, really - fighting against "out of sight, out of mind" is like trying to conjure something up out of thin air, in this case a thought of "oh, I need to tidy my room". I can't magic up that thought. It's all well and good saying "you need to remind yourself to do it", but if you have trouble remembering, you'll probably have trouble remembering to remember, too. I think prospective memory within the context of executive dysfunction needs more understanding. Hang on a sec, I forgot to set a reminder on my phone to remind myself to remember to write a post-it note to remind myself to remember to take the bins out. ;)
I appreciate you sharing your experiences, and I hope that those around you can be more understanding. Maybe show them this video! That makes it clear that this is a condition that others share too.
I hope you got the diagnosis you were hoping for. And also, many woman if not seeing someone who specialises in ADHD in WOMAN the criteria can sometimes seem off or not accurate for a general male diagnosis. Woman present differently in almost every way. Would love to know how you went
@@freedarabbits9808 Thank you for asking, that means a lot! I have been diagnosed with ADHD combined type! :D I should start medication within the next month or so, although the waiting list for titration is growing. My autism assessment has been cancelled, because the centre "forgot to open my email attachment"... for 6 months... and now they no longer have an NHS contract and I can't afford the £3000 to go private. It's all been a complete mess - I'm 18 months on from asking for a referral and I'm not even on a waiting list yet. However, the consultant who assessed me for ADHD is happy to also assess me for autism once I am stable on ADHD meds. :) So it's not all gone to plan, but it's still working out. I might have to pay for that privately, but it's not £3000 so I'm happy. ;)
Hey Dr. John Kruse Thank you for explaining this. I came across this video because I am doing research about it for a school project. I never really comment on video's but this time i had to cause for some reason I was touched by this video. I have ADHD myself and a lot of things i stuggle with make more sense for me now. I think a lot of people with ADHD don't know that this is a thing. Once again thank you for the video. Sincerly Jesse
This field seems to be centerpoint to the suffering. Mom was "messy" She purchased items and they got lost in the piles. The overcrowded table and bookshelf next to her was what she really could and did work with. My daughter looses the personal bond to her friends when not seeing them for two weeks. When she is well she is so close and cooperative . When she looses track for reasons as normal as a cold she looses her friends, gets confused, should reestablish the relationship from almost zero. What she can not do from own strength. It is frightening. She becomes massively sociophobic and more. This has been going on for all her life. I seem to be better of. I do have a mental map of crowded and organised homes. And of supermarkets. I expect permanece of personal bonds even after not seeing people, friends, exboyfriends for decades. I am good at organising. My subconsciousness is my secretary and feeds my impulsivety with reasonable and relevant tasks. Also I cannot be without my notebook where I make lists, mindmaps, doodles, my pen knows what is due not I. My short term memory under stress is non existend. My experience and impulses make me good at household chores, and at superhero troubleshooting for others, and for my one central interest over time. Now I watch my nephew who is in primary school falling off the rails. All of us are very bright and engaged. But Iife is exhausting and the tragedies are horrible.
when i was young, my dad gave me a 20 dollar bill and a list for the store. half way there, i realized i had spaced out as i walked and just didn't have the money in my hand anymore. i was so sad- how had this happened? had to go home and try to explain what happened. i felt like such a dumbass. to this day, i throw nothing away- keep stuff in bags or on a good jag, see-through plastic bins- b/c i just cannot seem to organize or remember where it is, regardless of importance. meanwhile, i swear i have a recall superpower for things like keys- things that make sound. ?? thank you for new words that make me feel better and understood.
exactly the same way... i can’t remember where i put my left shoe when i’m getting ready or to text back my gf....but i remember with extreme detail conversations from over a year ago and other random things.
A lot of the frustration I experience seems to lie in a difficulty in maintaining self-imposed although useful routines. There are just so many activities that draw me in, both outside and on the home front, and I have trouble prioritizing the plethora of tasks that present in the current moment unless an activity relates to other people and is obvious enough to take precedence.
That makes perfect sense to me. I have ADHD and I really don't think I have trouble with object permanence at all. Out of Sight, Out of Mind definitely rings more true to me too. I think maybe the thought of it being trouble with object permanence feels soothing, or not as loaded with guilt as the other term, and that might be why some people entertain the idea, rather than the need to feel smart, maybe? I know that would have been the case for me, if I had not known what object permanence actually is, and someone had told me I had trouble with it because of my disorder. It makes it sound like I have a valid handicap, where the other term has the connotation for me that I am just a self-centered jerk. I know those are feelings, not facts, but the guilt and the doubt whether we're just bad people who don't care enough runs very deep in many of us as I am sure you know.
Thank you. I think it's more a memory problem than not having object permanence. I keep things on my desk so I remember to do the task. I know the math book exists, I just have no memory of where I put it.
People ask if I'm excited about something that is occuring in the future (a trip overseas, starting a new job) I don't experience excitement until said event is occuring. This makes it hard when I feel bad, because I lack any positive reference point to make myself feel better.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🗣️ *Introduction and Upcoming Schedule* - Dr. John Cruce discusses the topic of object permanence and ADHD. - Mention of his upcoming schedule and the availability of a questionnaire for topic suggestions. 01:09 🧩 *Understanding Object Permanence* - Explains the concept of object permanence: the belief that an object continues to exist when it's out of direct sensory perception. - Provides examples of ADHD-related issues with object permanence, such as difficulty finding things or forgetting to perform tasks. 06:13 🧠 *Development of Object Permanence* - Discusses Jean-Piaget's research on the development of object permanence in infants. - Highlights that object permanence is a gradual process and may involve neurological and cultural factors. 09:00 🐾 *Object Permanence in Animals* - Mentions studies on object permanence in animals like birds, dogs, and cats. - Raises questions about how different animals understand the concept of object permanence. 11:05 🤔 *Out of Sight, Out of Mind vs. Object Permanence* - Differentiates between out of sight, out of mind, and object permanence. - Encourages using the former term for ADHD-related forgetfulness, emphasizing the distinction between the two concepts. Made with HARPA AI
So much food has rotten in the corner of my fridge because was in the back or in the drawer lol Low clutter helps to keep important items in view, like toothbrush, to-do paperwork, etc. I avoid buying non-essentials since they will cease to exist anyway once stored. This means I save money very easily...
This is interesting. I'm recently doing research on ADHD to see what's new since my last research dive. I have ADHD severely. Was pretty excited to discover there is now discussion on how "object permanence" or something along it's lines are definitely correlated with ADHD. Perhaps it is a sliding scale of recognition. Do you know how long it took me to realize I need open organization methods? Shelves, clear boxes, open visible boxes, more shelves, ect. It is very much out of site out of mind. But I will take it a step further it *almost* stops existing for me. I will walk in circles knowing I need to put that dish somewhere, but it doesn't register that I need to open the cabinet put it away. It takes considerable thought process for me to reason with my brain to stop, and focus on the reality of what I need to do with the dish. I never used clothes in my dresser. And my everyday clothes wound up on top of the dresser. I will even go so far as to say I develop anxiety when things are put away out of site. Even in areas that aren't mine. If I need to complete a task in a minimalist house I feel panic. Took me a while to realize because I couldn't physically see the things and it takes so much bandwidth to process hidden items. Or even the knowledge *if* I needed something it's not visible, this is like reaching into an abyss for me. And I'll need to burn so many gears to work out how to get it.
My retired military husband, who likes to move or put away my things, doesn’t understand why it upsets me that he does this. I had something laid out on the kitchen counter so I wouldn’t forget to take it with me when I left (in the morning). I didn’t realize it was missing until almost bedtime when I saw a picture of the thing online. My brain went “OH YEAH! We were going to take that today. Where is it? It was here on the counter (not on the counter now)”. Ask my husband where it was and he said he moved it because it didn’t belong there. I tried to explain I put it there so I’d remember to take it. He moved it around the corner. Of course I didn’t see it or see him move it so…*poof* gone.
“Out of sight out of mind” is NOT the same thing as the UNDERSTANDING that something still exists if it is out of sight...playing peek-a-boo with a baby is fun because sometimes they do not understand that your face is behind your hand- babies did not forget, they just do not understand that something they can not see still exists- THAT is object permanence.
I think he’s referring to working memory. If something falls out of the sensory field, it is dropped from working memory. Doesn’t mean you think it doesn’t exist anymore, you just don’t think about it.
I know it might sound melodramatic, but about 15 yrs ago I realized I didn't really have a lot of retention of who I am as a person. The goals I might've felt truly passionate about often evaporate in the long-term process of attaining them and are often superceded by new insights. I don't have much on the way of identity permanence, it seems. Now that is probably heavily influenced by childhood trauma, but still, I found I had much more of a continuous understanding of my values, personality, and sense of solidity in being the same person day after day by implementing a supportive process similar to other ADHD hacks. I have a laminated card sitting by the bed that is a personal mission statement plus the top three medium/long-term goals I've got going on right now. I read it every day and consider how aligned I feel with that statement and if not very strongly, I remind myself that old me thought these were priorities, let's stick with them. Every 6 months I have a journal prompt that opens an ongoing letter to myself about who I am, what I want out of life in the bigger picture, where I've been, where I'm going. I read the old entry and make a new one updating the information and thinking through how well I've stayed with the overall picture of myself. It's very helpful, like any external scaffolding I build to counter ADHD. I think it's also very telling...if I can't really keep track of who I am without a daily check in, then mere objects in the environment have absolutely no chance. 😮
Those are some powerful insights you have shared. I often encourage those who struggle with some similar problems to focus on their values because often they can see more permanence in that realm than they might in their goals or daily/weekly activities.
This is such a good breakdown of the concept. I have ADHD and have been working on it for the last 5 or so years of my adult life. If something is out of my sight, it just doesnt exist
We call that T-rex vision, if its not moving in front of us then it doesn't exist.
I'm glad that it was helpful.
@@nickphenneger3941 thanks, I hadn't heard that phrasing before, but it certainly creates a vivid image.
Haven't been diagnosed yet. However I'm sporadically deep-diving into researching ADHD and sometimes I'm so overwhelmed at what I'm learning, I want to cry for hours
Out of sight really do be out of mind
What's the greatest change you had to make, Dan, in managing ADHD as an adult? Does it get easier post-diagnosis? (Presuming you got diagnosed as an adult, which, fingers crossed, I can be too soon)
exactly right. i only learnt about object permanence recently, and it definitely applies to me and my adhd. but i think of it as, it applies in a transferred/borrowed/metaphorical sense - it's not that i literally think a hidden object no longer exists, but rather that i immediately find another object to attach my attention to and forget about the former one. "out of sight, out of mind" is exactly what it is.
I really struggle with this - by struggle I mean there is a lot of agony in trying to push myself to not forget what I was just doing, why I walked in a room, trying to scan my mind to try and recall any sort of feelings of something that needed to be done that day - I'm always in a panic with a feeling that something needs to be done that has been forgotten. Interestingly though, when I forget something and let my hand gesture however "it/I" feel(s) : my hand physically performs the motion of the task that I had forgotten - My hand physically signals to my brain - externally - the thing I had cognitively forgotten. So "sprinkling salt" to remember that I came to get salt, tapping my thumb on my index finger to remember that I was looking for the remote, the motion of turning a key to remind myself I was looking for keys (or the motion of flipping the keys which I also associate with "Keys"), turning "air pages" to remember I was looking for a book. Often these hand signals are surprising in cases where I had never cognitively thought of how said task was performed, much less performing the task in such a way. I have played musical instruments and am fluent in 4 languages, is that relevant? Maybe there is more to "fidgeting" than just restlessness?
There are some studies on fidgeting that it can enhance cogntive pathways (even in mice), but I haven't heard of anyone looking at the specific motions and tying those to the content of what one is trying to keep in active memory. I don't recall patients describing this either, so maybe it is something your brain has happened upon and it works for you, and maybe your musical training enhanced the connection between physical movements and cognition.
I do this too, it’s a useful strategy for my memory, but I’m not a musician. It’s as if my body remembered the motor pattern of what was needed but my conscious thought has forgotten! And to my knowledge I don’t have ADHD… This seems like an aspect of working memory that needs to be studied!
@@katehussey2352thanks for your response. I know that there are some researchers investigating the importance of movement, including fidgeting like movements, for learning music, and have theorized that body motions may strengthen the incorporation of some types of new knowledge.
This has really helped me understand my own brain a little, thank you.
I'm currently awaiting assessments for ADHD and autism (to be honest, I can't see how I DON'T fit the criteria, so it's a formality at this point) and I have learned so much about my forgetfulness. My parents could never understand how I could forget that I had to tidy my room, but if I wasn't actively looking at the mess, the thought would never come into my head. It's not that I forgot my room or the mess existed, but rather that I couldn't conjure up the thought out of thin air. Even when I was living in it and the mess was all around me, I still experienced "out of sight, out of mind" because I was focused on something else, or the moments I did think of it I wouldn't be able to do anything about it (e.g. bedtime). I say "was" but I'm still the same now.
That's how I'd describe it, really - fighting against "out of sight, out of mind" is like trying to conjure something up out of thin air, in this case a thought of "oh, I need to tidy my room". I can't magic up that thought. It's all well and good saying "you need to remind yourself to do it", but if you have trouble remembering, you'll probably have trouble remembering to remember, too. I think prospective memory within the context of executive dysfunction needs more understanding.
Hang on a sec, I forgot to set a reminder on my phone to remind myself to remember to write a post-it note to remind myself to remember to take the bins out. ;)
I appreciate you sharing your experiences, and I hope that those around you can be more understanding. Maybe show them this video! That makes it clear that this is a condition that others share too.
I hope you got the diagnosis you were hoping for. And also, many woman if not seeing someone who specialises in ADHD in WOMAN the criteria can sometimes seem off or not accurate for a general male diagnosis. Woman present differently in almost every way.
Would love to know how you went
@@freedarabbits9808 Thank you for asking, that means a lot!
I have been diagnosed with ADHD combined type! :D I should start medication within the next month or so, although the waiting list for titration is growing.
My autism assessment has been cancelled, because the centre "forgot to open my email attachment"... for 6 months... and now they no longer have an NHS contract and I can't afford the £3000 to go private. It's all been a complete mess - I'm 18 months on from asking for a referral and I'm not even on a waiting list yet.
However, the consultant who assessed me for ADHD is happy to also assess me for autism once I am stable on ADHD meds. :) So it's not all gone to plan, but it's still working out. I might have to pay for that privately, but it's not £3000 so I'm happy. ;)
@@lizjenkin7170 right on!!! finding the consultant needed so badly in our lives- well, it's more than a relief. i am so glad for you.
I felt like I was writing this as I read it.
Hey Dr. John Kruse
Thank you for explaining this. I came across this video because I am doing research about it for a school project. I never really comment on video's but this time i had to cause for some reason I was touched by this video. I have ADHD myself and a lot of things i stuggle with make more sense for me now. I think a lot of people with ADHD don't know that this is a thing.
Once again thank you for the video.
Sincerly Jesse
This field seems to be centerpoint to the suffering.
Mom was "messy"
She purchased items and they got lost in the piles. The overcrowded table and bookshelf next to her was what she really could and did work with.
My daughter looses the personal bond to her friends when not seeing them for two weeks. When she is well she is so close and cooperative . When she looses track for reasons as normal as a cold she looses her friends, gets confused, should reestablish the relationship from almost zero. What she can not do from own strength. It is frightening. She becomes massively sociophobic and more.
This has been going on for all her life.
I seem to be better of.
I do have a mental map of crowded and organised homes. And of supermarkets. I expect permanece of personal bonds even after not seeing people, friends, exboyfriends for decades.
I am good at organising. My subconsciousness is my secretary and feeds my impulsivety with reasonable and relevant tasks. Also I cannot be without my notebook where I make lists, mindmaps, doodles, my pen knows what is due not I.
My short term memory under stress is non existend.
My experience and impulses make me good at household chores, and at superhero troubleshooting for others, and for my one central interest over time.
Now I watch my nephew who is in primary school falling off the rails.
All of us are very bright and engaged.
But Iife is exhausting and the tragedies are horrible.
Yes, I am sorry to hear about the multigenerational suffering that ADHD has contributed to.
@@DrJohnKruse Thank you !
when i was young, my dad gave me a 20 dollar bill and a list for the store. half way there, i realized i had spaced out as i walked and just didn't have the money in my hand anymore. i was so sad- how had this happened? had to go home and try to explain what happened. i felt like such a dumbass. to this day, i throw nothing away- keep stuff in bags or on a good jag, see-through plastic bins- b/c i just cannot seem to organize or remember where it is, regardless of importance. meanwhile, i swear i have a recall superpower for things like keys- things that make sound. ?? thank you for new words that make me feel better and understood.
exactly the same way... i can’t remember where i put my left shoe when i’m getting ready or to text back my gf....but i remember with extreme detail conversations from over a year ago and other random things.
@@bigsteppa9843 ha! right! i call it my insane arcane wealth of knowledge...
Bless you
I learned the actual term for the lack of awareness that someone with ADHD has. Intellectually they know but the steady awareness isn't always there.
Thanks for the info.
A lot of the frustration I experience seems to lie in a difficulty in maintaining self-imposed although useful routines. There are just so many activities that draw me in, both outside and on the home front, and I have trouble prioritizing the plethora of tasks that present in the current moment unless an activity relates to other people and is obvious enough to take precedence.
That makes perfect sense to me.
I have ADHD and I really don't think I have trouble with object permanence at all. Out of Sight, Out of Mind definitely rings more true to me too. I think maybe the thought of it being trouble with object permanence feels soothing, or not as loaded with guilt as the other term, and that might be why some people entertain the idea, rather than the need to feel smart, maybe?
I know that would have been the case for me, if I had not known what object permanence actually is, and someone had told me I had trouble with it because of my disorder.
It makes it sound like I have a valid handicap, where the other term has the connotation for me that I am just a self-centered jerk.
I know those are feelings, not facts, but the guilt and the doubt whether we're just bad people who don't care enough runs very deep in many of us as I am sure you know.
You're not a self centered jerk. Please stop thinking that.
Thank you for sharing your experience. People use words to convey lots of different meanings.
Thank you. I think it's more a memory problem than not having object permanence. I keep things on my desk so I remember to do the task. I know the math book exists, I just have no memory of where I put it.
People ask if I'm excited about something that is occuring in the future (a trip overseas, starting a new job) I don't experience excitement until said event is occuring. This makes it hard when I feel bad, because I lack any positive reference point to make myself feel better.
It’s not that I don’t know that the object continues to exist, it’s just that I don’t know WHERE it exists.
Yep, that nails it, and that's not object permanence.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🗣️ *Introduction and Upcoming Schedule*
- Dr. John Cruce discusses the topic of object permanence and ADHD.
- Mention of his upcoming schedule and the availability of a questionnaire for topic suggestions.
01:09 🧩 *Understanding Object Permanence*
- Explains the concept of object permanence: the belief that an object continues to exist when it's out of direct sensory perception.
- Provides examples of ADHD-related issues with object permanence, such as difficulty finding things or forgetting to perform tasks.
06:13 🧠 *Development of Object Permanence*
- Discusses Jean-Piaget's research on the development of object permanence in infants.
- Highlights that object permanence is a gradual process and may involve neurological and cultural factors.
09:00 🐾 *Object Permanence in Animals*
- Mentions studies on object permanence in animals like birds, dogs, and cats.
- Raises questions about how different animals understand the concept of object permanence.
11:05 🤔 *Out of Sight, Out of Mind vs. Object Permanence*
- Differentiates between out of sight, out of mind, and object permanence.
- Encourages using the former term for ADHD-related forgetfulness, emphasizing the distinction between the two concepts.
Made with HARPA AI
Thank youse-good work !
I appreciate the feedback.
So much food has rotten in the corner of my fridge because was in the back or in the drawer lol
Low clutter helps to keep important items in view, like toothbrush, to-do paperwork, etc. I avoid buying non-essentials since they will cease to exist anyway once stored. This means I save money very easily...
Thanks for sharing those tips. De-cluttering helps many people function more efficiently.
This is interesting. I'm recently doing research on ADHD to see what's new since my last research dive. I have ADHD severely. Was pretty excited to discover there is now discussion on how "object permanence" or something along it's lines are definitely correlated with ADHD. Perhaps it is a sliding scale of recognition. Do you know how long it took me to realize I need open organization methods? Shelves, clear boxes, open visible boxes, more shelves, ect. It is very much out of site out of mind. But I will take it a step further it *almost* stops existing for me. I will walk in circles knowing I need to put that dish somewhere, but it doesn't register that I need to open the cabinet put it away. It takes considerable thought process for me to reason with my brain to stop, and focus on the reality of what I need to do with the dish. I never used clothes in my dresser. And my everyday clothes wound up on top of the dresser. I will even go so far as to say I develop anxiety when things are put away out of site. Even in areas that aren't mine. If I need to complete a task in a minimalist house I feel panic. Took me a while to realize because I couldn't physically see the things and it takes so much bandwidth to process hidden items. Or even the knowledge *if* I needed something it's not visible, this is like reaching into an abyss for me. And I'll need to burn so many gears to work out how to get it.
My retired military husband, who likes to move or put away my things, doesn’t understand why it upsets me that he does this. I had something laid out on the kitchen counter so I wouldn’t forget to take it with me when I left (in the morning). I didn’t realize it was missing until almost bedtime when I saw a picture of the thing online. My brain went “OH YEAH! We were going to take that today. Where is it? It was here on the counter (not on the counter now)”. Ask my husband where it was and he said he moved it because it didn’t belong there. I tried to explain I put it there so I’d remember to take it. He moved it around the corner. Of course I didn’t see it or see him move it so…*poof* gone.
1:15
“Out of sight out of mind” is NOT the same thing as the UNDERSTANDING that something still exists if it is out of sight...playing peek-a-boo with a baby is fun because sometimes they do not understand that your face is behind your hand- babies did not forget, they just do not understand that something they can not see still exists- THAT is object permanence.
I think he’s referring to working memory. If something falls out of the sensory field, it is dropped from working memory. Doesn’t mean you think it doesn’t exist anymore, you just don’t think about it.
Yes, thanks, you are summarizing the point I was making.
CHSL