Agreed (though I can't upvote as you have 69 likes and can't be the one to break that). I don't mind commentary during replays but when the ref is speaking to the TMO, I appreciate the commentators shutting up as much as the players out there
@Ryan Dawson Are you really so stupid to find someone giving an opinion boring, is it like you instantly need some sort of entertainment like a 3 year old. I am guessing you are some sport-head who doesn't do anything .
Yeah he was going to the left and then tripped to the right. Kruger braced for the impact more than anything. If shown at full speed then you would need super human reflexes to make all the correct changes. Should have been two yellows.
@@GenuineEarlGrey because of the falling player even if he completed the tackle it would have been a straight shot to the head. Either way Kruger is on the loosing end of a bad situation that isn't really his fault.
Completely wrong. Kruger is getting ready to make a tackle. His left leg is planted and bent ready to make contact, even if the ball is to be passed. His right arm stays directly down and the shoulder is dipped into the direction of white 14. Clear cynical play from Black 12, lazy tackle and awful position, one that aims to do harm regardless of white 14 tripping.
shouldnt be a red. maybe a yellow because the wing was on his knee when he got tackled by the centre who looked away, not seeing that the wing was dropping to his knee. thats never a red card. only in the english biased games it is
Not sure I agree. The first shoulder the guy tripped and it happens so fast that he couldn't have pulled his shoulder away. The second one is spot on he didn't do enough to try and wrap or make a proper tackle. Yellow for sure red big question.
Because at first he just said penalty so play still kept going and then the captain or someone complained and then he said he wil check and stopped the time immediatly
@@ruanjvrensburg3785 the only reason he checked with the TMO is because he was waiting for the TMO to confirm with him whether it was necessary to have a thorough check for foul play - absolutely nothing to do with the captains or any other onfield individuals
First one looked more of a collision to me. 12 stood his ground after the offload and white turned inside and hit jaw first of his shoulder. Not much intent in it. Was a yellow for me.
Paddypool FC I'm with you n this. Slow motion makes it look like he has more time, but I'm not so sure. He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't
Watch again. It's the fact that instead of bracing or pulling out he turns the shoulder in so it connects with more force to the head. Never yellow, always red.
Cant agree more, the softies of the Northen Hemisphere(administrators , coaches , referees and players are killing the game, not even speaking about the commentators, its a red for them every time something is renewed.Go play soccer or netball you rough , tough and tumble NH. William Webb Ellis might only ever be won by NH if the game keeps on moving towards touch rugby. Duane Vermeulen told a South African ref that if the other team agrees they can maybe play touch because of how the ref was sendind players of for "dirty" play. I am sorry, I believe thats the single most important reason Vermeulen outplays Vunipola every single time in an ENG vs SA game: For the time being still I think rugby from school to proffesional rugby is just so much harder than most other countries. See schools like Paarl Boys play Pasrl Gim and if you honest you will agree with me. Even in small towns like Bethlehem its absolute war when its derby day. Dont think that many moms or NH refs and. administrators will want to look at that war. Not dirty play(sometimes) but no player will remain on the field with these "tackle without arms", late hit( stopwatches should determine cards), too many Bismarck du Plessis like tackles on Dan Cater( French ref NH). Carter said afterwards it was a great tackle. The game is actually a disgrace in NH, always 14 playing 15 or 13 playing 14 players due to a man sending of players for "offences" he doesnt understand. Sorry but if you weigh 50 kg and have legs like a supermodel you probably did not play the game in NH or do most of their players look like road runners? Maybe you should start to import some good SA beef. Love rugby , hate to see it being destroyd by old men in suites at rule meetings. Pity the ex Argentinian scrumhalve didnt won the World Rugby elections. He would hopefully have made a stop to this t ou ich rugby. Come on guys, leave the game alone , make rules for your kids for break. Are kids allowed to play during school breaks or is it too dangerous?
Just a little comment for those saying it wasn't a red card. If someone was to smash your jaw with their shoulder you would say it's assault. So why is it different for someone else?
16 should have been red. His opponent didn't duck he just came down the swinging arm was still at normal shoulder height. A well, maybe not red but he was lucky with yellow. 12 should have been yellow. I think he was about to drop his body when he saw the pass, he wasn't trying to tackle or block just looked away, more an unlucky collision.
Both Ulster players falling over milli-seconds before contact making it impossible for tackler to readjust. Not the tacklers fault but is the attackers as they struggle to hold their feet. Stupid law and laughable that european teams need these decisions to get advantages into their games.
Kruger should have had a yellow. 1 - the player actually tripped as he passed and fell into Kruger 2 - as soon as the ball left the players hands, Krugers head and focus followed the ball
He made zero attempt to wrap his arms, and led with his shoulder, he was going for a shoulder charge anyway. 14 had only dropped so far as to his head being at shoulder level while 12 was standing up nearly straight.
@@joshbenton810 or you could argue that he didn't attempt to make any tackle as he was following the ball and the 14 head butted the 12s shoulder. ;) One thing that should have happened regardless of who was to blame is that both white players who had head contact should have gone off for HIA.
@@matthewjackson5128 What was there to pull out of? He was watching the ball while the fellas feet got stuck and he fell into him! Look at it again! He's at least at a 45° angle and full length! Totally accidental.
On the red card. It appears that there is no attempt to tackle because the player tossed the ball; But if he didn't start to fall they would have bumped into each other without consequence. The Black shirt was only preparing for normal late pass contact as they were heading for one another.
you know what this stupid rule is going to cause? players deliberately dropping the knee when getting tackled to milk a red or yellow card. just like when people jumped in the air deliberately when catching a ball to milk a penalty or yellow. until they changed the rule again. this wont end well for rugby. saw this weekend 2 yellows given for head clashes that should have been nothing. the bulls captain even asked the ref if they should rather start playing touch rugby.
Absolutely shocking the 12 looked away as the winger FELL into his shoulder, the winger went to his knee before he went into the 12 absolutely shocking call for a red, anit even a yellow, yes there was contact with the head but what is the 12 gonna do just stand there, the 12 even looked at the other player couldn’t be helped
If you look again you’ll see that 12 wasn’t even looking when they collided and that the player actually tripped straight into his shoulder. Second flying arm was definitely yellow though.
Its amusing but those people claiming to play the game and then refer to rules... what sport are you referring to? Actor ball? Rugby is governed by LAWS...
Talk about reaching to feel more important than someone else 😂 Yes, rugby is governed by laws... but when someone said rules, I bet you knew exactly what they were talking about 🤷♂️
How has the ref come to that decision 😂 the winger has tripped and at the time of contact has a knee on the ground! Kruger’s pretty much screwed here he’s pulled out of the tackle as the balls been passed and so he’s done for no arms but if he had committed to the tackle he would have been done for a late tackle 😂
And this is an example of why the rules are bullshit. Because both those attacking players were falling which caused the contact to be high they have to have a better awareness of self safety, because in realtime if you decide to fall obviously the contact will be high so now it allows players to basically instigate the high contact just merely by falling, both players didn't need to fall and yet they did because they saw the contact coming, this is where the rules need to be changed. Im all for player safety but if your running at speed towards a player you've already made your mind up your going to shoulder charge, it's definitely a yellow card for the shoulder charge not a red and the other one would have been a great tackle if they guy was standing therefore common sense should just play on.
Hit above the sholders = red. I would rather the refs make mistakes on the side of player safety rather than hear these excuses. I wonder, if it was your head, would you still have the samre opinion.
@@TheTheotherfoot it's not about my head, and I agree that player safety is important but the first thing they teach you as a player and even a referee is that players are supposed to take their own safety into consideration. Now in my opinion and it's obvious from the footage that player went into contact falling which all players know can result in unwanted contact, as a defender going into tackle you make a decision early, now that player that made the tackle had decided based on the height he caught the ball that he was going to hit him in the chest the guy had no regard for his own safety and fell therefore it should be play on because as a defender you shouldn't be punished for making the correct choice for a tackle.
@@aotearoaidol So you believe it is OK for that to happen on a sports field, as long as it's not your head that cops the hit. If this happened off the field, there would be an assult charge handed out. A red card keeps him from facing the judge and a bloody big fine. Learn the laws of rugby and grow up.
I didn't see anything wrong. Don't tell me about the "rules". That's Rugby, that's how it should be played. The IRB needs to be fired, and the rules should be changed back to the way Rugby was in the past, before politically correct nonsense came into the game under the BS pretext of "protecting" the players. Sad to see the direction this once great sport has headed in. S M H
![Referee and TMO work together for 2 yellow card decisions. [Munster vs Dragons '19]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4XMJOmH8aEo/mqdefault.jpg)
![Referee and TMO work together for 2 yellow card decisions. [Munster vs Dragons '19]](/img/tr.png)
Why do commentators insist on talking over the referees when they are speaking? They are miked up for a reason, so let's hear what they have to say
It's because they think that they are the only ones able to tell what has happened, the guru's of the game, like. In other words, big mouth muppets.
No complaints about the cards. The commentators though should shut up whilst the ref is speaking - that's the biggest crime here.
Red card for commentators who love the sound of their own voices too much.
Ref was bang on.
Agreed (though I can't upvote as you have 69 likes and can't be the one to break that).
I don't mind commentary during replays but when the ref is speaking to the TMO, I appreciate the commentators shutting up as much as the players out there
As a supporter of rugby and football, rugby has the respect and discipline bang on. So refreshing
@Ryan Dawson Are you really so stupid to find someone giving an opinion boring, is it like you instantly need some sort of entertainment like a 3 year old. I am guessing you are some sport-head who doesn't do anything .
If it had been Owen Farrell, it would be play on.
Laurence Piper that’s a fact 😂
Never seen such a stupid comment. You’re obviously clueless about this sport
Styl3r you obviously haven’t seen what Owen Farrell has gotten away with
Styl3r or know what a joke is
Hype Recoils never seen such a cringey profile pic. Oh and when was the last time Farrell made a hit to the head of another player?
I wish the announcers could shut up so we can hear the ref and TMO.
Only because of the Ulster doctor / water carrier raised with the ref and then spoke to his captain to complain
To be fair, the fellas feet got stuck and he fell into it.
lol. that 14 was on his knee when he got hit in the face. LOL
The reason kruger doesn't make a tackle is because the player tripped into him. If he tried to tackle the result would have been worse. Harsh red.
Yeah he was going to the left and then tripped to the right. Kruger braced for the impact more than anything. If shown at full speed then you would need super human reflexes to make all the correct changes. Should have been two yellows.
Now if you really wanna show awkward as fuck check out Saracens no try because the ref was in the way.
Kruger, instead of completing the tackle, was ball watching. That let to the head contact etc etc
@@GenuineEarlGrey because of the falling player even if he completed the tackle it would have been a straight shot to the head. Either way Kruger is on the loosing end of a bad situation that isn't really his fault.
Completely wrong. Kruger is getting ready to make a tackle. His left leg is planted and bent ready to make contact, even if the ball is to be passed. His right arm stays directly down and the shoulder is dipped into the direction of white 14. Clear cynical play from Black 12, lazy tackle and awful position, one that aims to do harm regardless of white 14 tripping.
Stop talking over the referees...
Number 12 shaking his head in disbelief. He knew exactly what he was doing and nowadays it's a red. Plain and simple
shouldnt be a red. maybe a yellow because the wing was on his knee when he got tackled by the centre who looked away, not seeing that the wing was dropping to his knee. thats never a red card. only in the english biased games it is
Not sure I agree. The first shoulder the guy tripped and it happens so fast that he couldn't have pulled his shoulder away. The second one is spot on he didn't do enough to try and wrap or make a proper tackle. Yellow for sure red big question.
If he was even attempting to wrap the arms, you would have a case. He never made an attempt and was always high.
It's a red all day long
Incredible the level of refereeing and video refereeing compared to football.
No complaint about the card. The problem I have is it took the referee a full minute of standing around having a chat before stopping the clock.
Because at first he just said penalty so play still kept going and then the captain or someone complained and then he said he wil check and stopped the time immediatly
@@ruanjvrensburg3785 the only reason he checked with the TMO is because he was waiting for the TMO to confirm with him whether it was necessary to have a thorough check for foul play - absolutely nothing to do with the captains or any other onfield individuals
If he hadnt turned the shoulder in it would have been fine, would have just been standing his ground. Good refereeing
@@christopherbertoli7322 that makes no sense, if your going to be sarcastic, do it right
The people calling this harsh are being pretty blind
What language are the commentators speaking?
Why would the ref allow the fucking water boy on to get in his ear.
He should have waved him off
First one looked more of a collision to me. 12 stood his ground after the offload and white turned inside and hit jaw first of his shoulder. Not much intent in it. Was a yellow for me.
Paddypool FC I'm with you n this. Slow motion makes it look like he has more time, but I'm not so sure. He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't
Totally agree Terry.
Watch again. It's the fact that instead of bracing or pulling out he turns the shoulder in so it connects with more force to the head. Never yellow, always red.
what bullshit is this. one of these days they are going to play touch rugby. that wing was almost on his knee when he got hit in the face
Cant agree more, the softies of the Northen Hemisphere(administrators , coaches , referees and players are killing the game, not even speaking about the commentators, its a red for them every time something is renewed.Go play soccer or netball you rough , tough and tumble NH. William Webb Ellis might only ever be won by NH if the game keeps on moving towards touch rugby. Duane Vermeulen told a South African ref that if the other team agrees they can maybe play touch because of how the ref was sendind players of for "dirty" play. I am sorry, I believe thats the single most important reason Vermeulen outplays Vunipola every single time in an ENG vs SA game: For the time being still I think rugby from school to proffesional rugby is just so much harder than most other countries. See schools like Paarl Boys play Pasrl Gim and if you honest you will agree with me. Even in small towns like Bethlehem its absolute war when its derby day. Dont think that many moms or NH refs and. administrators will want to look at that war. Not dirty play(sometimes) but no player will remain on the field with these "tackle without arms", late hit( stopwatches should determine cards), too many Bismarck du Plessis like tackles on Dan Cater( French ref NH). Carter said afterwards it was a great tackle. The game is actually a disgrace in NH, always 14 playing 15 or 13 playing 14 players due to a man sending of players for "offences" he doesnt understand. Sorry but if you weigh 50 kg and have legs like a supermodel you probably did not play the game in NH or do most of their players look like road runners? Maybe you should start to import some good SA beef. Love rugby , hate to see it being destroyd by old men in suites at rule meetings. Pity the ex Argentinian scrumhalve didnt won the World Rugby elections. He would hopefully have made a stop to this t ou ich rugby. Come on guys, leave the game alone , make rules for your kids for break. Are kids allowed to play during school breaks or is it too dangerous?
Just a little comment for those saying it wasn't a red card. If someone was to smash your jaw with their shoulder you would say it's assault. So why is it different for someone else?
Excellent interpretation of the rules.
Both correct imo
16 should have been red. His opponent didn't duck he just came down the swinging arm was still at normal shoulder height. A well, maybe not red but he was lucky with yellow.
12 should have been yellow.
I think he was about to drop his body when he saw the pass, he wasn't trying to tackle or block just looked away, more an unlucky collision.
the ulster no.9 ducks his head at the last second so obvious what he’s doing! That would have been a shoulder tackle then
Both Ulster players falling over milli-seconds before contact making it impossible for tackler to readjust. Not the tacklers fault but is the attackers as they struggle to hold their feet. Stupid law and laughable that european teams need these decisions to get advantages into their games.
Absolute bollocks
The defender is watching the ball - and the winger trips into him. Send off the winger for being clumsy.
Aye that's a rule
Kruger should have had a yellow.
1 - the player actually tripped as he passed and fell into Kruger
2 - as soon as the ball left the players hands, Krugers head and focus followed the ball
He made zero attempt to wrap his arms, and led with his shoulder, he was going for a shoulder charge anyway. 14 had only dropped so far as to his head being at shoulder level while 12 was standing up nearly straight.
@@joshbenton810 or you could argue that he didn't attempt to make any tackle as he was following the ball and the 14 head butted the 12s shoulder. ;)
One thing that should have happened regardless of who was to blame is that both white players who had head contact should have gone off for HIA.
Shoulder to jaw red card!
lol. even if the player is on his knee? bullshit
@@RabbitholeIsrael he had loads of time to pull out of it, he also didn't even attempt to wrap his arms.
@@matthewjackson5128 What was there to pull out of? He was watching the ball while the fellas feet got stuck and he fell into him! Look at it again! He's at least at a 45° angle and full length!
Totally accidental.
Harsh
Force to the head is red these days. It's just the rules
@@andrewarmstrong6131 clear intent too. If anything was harsh it was the yellow
@@alasdairduncan3 Not clear intent.
Should be 2 reds...and I'm south african!dirty players..
Good calls. Nice to see a new batch of refs in the six nations.
The way the game is managed has ruined so many great encounters
On the red card. It appears that there is no attempt to tackle because the player tossed the ball; But if he didn't start to fall they would have bumped into each other without consequence. The Black shirt was only preparing for normal late pass contact as they were heading for one another.
Not really sure what 12 should do. Yes, no arms but he wasn't expecting to make a tackle, the player tripped into him 🤷♂️
They should have sent both players off. Both of those fouls looked serious
Who cheers cards? Ulster "fans" need to have a look at themselves
Generally depends how just they are
Must be a Leinster supporter 😂
you know what this stupid rule is going to cause? players deliberately dropping the knee when getting tackled to milk a red or yellow card. just like when people jumped in the air deliberately when catching a ball to milk a penalty or yellow. until they changed the rule again. this wont end well for rugby. saw this weekend 2 yellows given for head clashes that should have been nothing. the bulls captain even asked the ref if they should rather start playing touch rugby.
Absolutely shocking the 12 looked away as the winger FELL into his shoulder, the winger went to his knee before he went into the 12 absolutely shocking call for a red, anit even a yellow, yes there was contact with the head but what is the 12 gonna do just stand there, the 12 even looked at the other player couldn’t be helped
The looking away makes it worse in my eyes. Not paying attention to the player you are lining up is terrible.
If you look again you’ll see that 12 wasn’t even looking when they collided and that the player actually tripped straight into his shoulder. Second flying arm was definitely yellow though.
Ang Goose number 12 watched him all the way into his shoulder turning at the last minute so he can hit him with the shoulder that’s a red
It should have been yellow, not red :/
Its amusing but those people claiming to play the game and then refer to rules... what sport are you referring to? Actor ball? Rugby is governed by LAWS...
Talk about reaching to feel more important than someone else 😂
Yes, rugby is governed by laws... but when someone said rules, I bet you knew exactly what they were talking about 🤷♂️
@@sams1550 Nope, just showed ignorance.
@Dizzy McSpud Examples?
I wonder if these refs actually ever played the game.
White player fell towards black 12 and hurt himself in the process.
Black did step into it, so tough call but I can see the refs view
How has the ref come to that decision 😂 the winger has tripped and at the time of contact has a knee on the ground!
Kruger’s pretty much screwed here he’s pulled out of the tackle as the balls been passed and so he’s done for no arms but if he had committed to the tackle he would have been done for a late tackle 😂
Yeah, he was following the ball while the fellas feet got stuck and he fell into it!
I hope that they fire this ref
And this is an example of why the rules are bullshit. Because both those attacking players were falling which caused the contact to be high they have to have a better awareness of self safety, because in realtime if you decide to fall obviously the contact will be high so now it allows players to basically instigate the high contact just merely by falling, both players didn't need to fall and yet they did because they saw the contact coming, this is where the rules need to be changed. Im all for player safety but if your running at speed towards a player you've already made your mind up your going to shoulder charge, it's definitely a yellow card for the shoulder charge not a red and the other one would have been a great tackle if they guy was standing therefore common sense should just play on.
Hit above the sholders = red. I would rather the refs make mistakes on the side of player safety rather than hear these excuses. I wonder, if it was your head, would you still have the samre opinion.
@@TheTheotherfoot it's not about my head, and I agree that player safety is important but the first thing they teach you as a player and even a referee is that players are supposed to take their own safety into consideration. Now in my opinion and it's obvious from the footage that player went into contact falling which all players know can result in unwanted contact, as a defender going into tackle you make a decision early, now that player that made the tackle had decided based on the height he caught the ball that he was going to hit him in the chest the guy had no regard for his own safety and fell therefore it should be play on because as a defender you shouldn't be punished for making the correct choice for a tackle.
@@aotearoaidol So you believe it is OK for that to happen on a sports field, as long as it's not your head that cops the hit. If this happened off the field, there would be an assult charge handed out. A red card keeps him from facing the judge and a bloody big fine.
Learn the laws of rugby and grow up.
Fucking he'll, am I watching soccer.
SH kids play harder than that.
Netball is more physical than rugby these days. Both accidental hits.
This is fucked up
I didn't see anything wrong. Don't tell me about the "rules". That's Rugby, that's how it should be played. The IRB needs to be fired, and the rules should be changed back to the way Rugby was in the past, before politically correct nonsense came into the game under the BS pretext of "protecting" the players. Sad to see the direction this once great sport has headed in. S M H