Had a friend in college, twenty years ago, that named his ferret Spike. The loner, vampire, trenchcoat, SEX GOD that never got laid was his ENTIRE PERSONALITY!!!!
@@nostoon4332 that scene was low, but after that was great. If we are talking from a stance of the lore of the series, the demon that was Spike willingly locked itself a cage by bringing back the soul of William the human (not that he changed his name back or anything). His personality didn't shift was drastically as Angel, but they make it very clear repeatedly that the vampire isn't the actual person. It's "the thing that killed him" as Giles said about Jesse. So season 7 Spike (and on Angel season 5) is a new character in my eyes. If you disagree, remember that pretty much no one in the fandom talks about Angel and holds him as responsible for torturing Giles or killing Jenny. We know those were the actions of the unrestrained demon Angelus
That scene was horrible but it was explained that Spike was still evil and he didn’t want the audience to forget that, which is why he went to get a soul after.
Agree, VERY classy of him - I think the quote was "I'm not going to TELL them that they didn't" - and that's important, as that's what he would be doing if he contradicted them/someone. Glad to hear his experience was good, or at least not the hell that some of the women went through. Was so sad to learn that about Joss, I used to be such a fan of him. Now I have to separate him from the shows as there was a LOT more in them than just him and I figure by boycotting them I'm boycotting so much more than just Joss.
He is separating his personal experience from objective truth. He is giving space for the folks with bad or good experiences to own their own experiences. It is an insightful and classy way to say he can only speak for himself.
I worked on a show years ago called Without a Trace. James did a short run of episodes for us. He was the most humble and amazing guest star we ever had. He spoke to me at length about his time on Buffy and really made me feel welcomed into his world while he was there. Wonderful Wonderful guy and I wish him all the best in the world. He deserves it.
In many ways Spike’s arrival on the show helped it turn into less of a metaphor of just adolescence and into something more complex that reflects becoming an adult: not all the bad is avoidable and if that’s the case, how do you maneuver around it? How do you affect change? How do you adapt? Seriously, thank god for Spike.
@anne-sophieletourneau-hudo9364 ''A metaphor of just adolescence'', it's strange, when I was a kid watching the show, I never picked up on that. I just thought it was someone who disliked horror films depicting a lady always as the victim who runs away. (And he had like a wicked sense of humor.) But watching the show as an adult, seeing the episode with Buffy Spring-Fling white dress. The whole thing just depicts how high school is like hell, and how you have to face your inner demons, and how you leave this hell behind you and slowly transition into adulthood. It's really cool. I have such a newfound esteem that I cherish and treasure forever.
@@silkandstones5964 I have a question, so Angel NEVER loses his soul to Darla, he maintains it throughout, but he goes dark. The way he snaps out of that phase is something I still don't get to this day. So he sleeps with Darla, and all of a sudden he's good again? They established back in Buffy's 17th-birthday that he goes evil after sex. But he bounces back after hitting rock bottom somehow by sleeping with Darla? (And they create Connor who is hands down the worst character ever written in all of the Buffy-verse. Man was he annoying.)
As an English person, he fooled me into thinking he was English. Like the accent was so convincing it’s weird to see him speaking in his normal accent 😂
They definitely made the right call to keep Spike on. He was one of the best and interesting characters of the series!! And love James as an actor, very talented and well-respected person.
Season 3 onwards spike >>>> season 2 spike. There's a reason the "big bad" was angelus. They took a gamble. We're all IMMENSELY happy it paid off, -1 scene in season 6 that i prefer to repress
The funny thing is that Spike DID represent those exact things for Buffy in a way that Angel never could had he stayed on the show. Spike represented all the bad things like peer pressure, addiction, temptation, corruption, weakness, lust and passion SO well... and it was an incredible pay-off that he basically earns his own redemption and then sacrifices himself for love and the greater good. I think Joss may have been a bit of a brat there - not realizing that it was in fact a better thing he'd stumbled onto... (imho)
I think he did finally realize that. Eventually he accepted his reality and said “well, I’m stuck with this. So how can I use it?” And look at what he was able to do with season 6. Sometimes geniuses are so focused on what they want that they don’t look around and see the other possibilities. Normally I hate when a network interferes with a show, but they were right on the money with that one
I really felt as though the end of season 5 was the perfect ending for all the characters. Spike had become somewhat good without a soul, which made his story much more compelling than Angels
@@darkydoom agreed! I almost quit watching because I was so sick of the insipid Angel story line. The best part of the graduation was watching him disappear.
Spike was just too charismatic not to be a winner. The scene where he meets Buffy's mum for the second time. 'Have we met?' 'One time you hit me with an axe'. ...And they eventually bond over the soap opera, James Marsters had me DYING!!!
The minute James stepped in front of the camera we were captivated. There was simply no way the fans could let that brilliance fade away after a couple of episodes.
Of all of the cast members that with a little CGI, could still get away with playing an ageless vampire James as Spike would probably be the one. His appearance has barely changed over 2 decades! And hell he was good! But I still think that as a metaphor he could have been kept in that adolescent overcoming the problems of being an adolescent, because who hasn't had a teenage crush on someone charismatic and a bad boy?
Spike staying on the show beyond Season 2 and Season 3 wasn't the problem. But the push to make him a romantic lead or anti-hero didn't work. Whedon should have written him more like Crowley on Supernatural who helps the heroes for his own selfish reasons and thus a weird kind of frenemy dynamic can grow from the fact while he was often the big bad the heroes are just as likely to need to team up with him when an even worse threat emerges
Soulless Spike cannot redeem himself, because he's not capable of remorse and regret. Souled Spike doesn't need redemption, because he's not responsible for wat soulless Spike did. So either way, redemption is off the table.
@@YourCreepyUncle. I don't completely agree. I take a more nuanced view. I always found it interesting that Angel was ensouled as a result of a curse enacted on him as punishment. Spike was ensouled at his own request. So, even soulless Spike was aware that he lacked something important and took affirmative steps to acquire the soul he was missing. Granted, soulless Spike's reasons for getting his soul back were selfish, but the act stands on its own and redeemed him by giving his soul back, although soulless Spike would never think he needed to be redeemed. Souled Spike suffered an agony of guilt, but his sacrifice in "Chosen" was the act that redeemed him in his own mind.
@@frutrace What you said didn't necessarily dismiss the idea that redemption is off the table. His reasons were selfish, like you said. The souled version's guilt is also somewhat misplaced. The soul in the show isn't just the desire to feel empathy, but the ability to feel it. That makes a huge difference.
@@mikesannitti6042 I have always wondered at the proper assignment of guilt for ensouled vampires on Buffy. The mythology says when you are turned, you die, your soul goes on to wherever souls go, and a demon inhabits your body with all your memories. It is literally a different entity that assumes your identity, but with a complete lack of conscience and an inborn malice to cause as much suffering for humanity as possible. So what does it mean when the vampire gets ensouled? Is it conjured from thin air? Is the soul of the original person ripped from it's eternal rest and returned? Is the vampire just given a conscience and the veil ripped from it's eyes so that it fully comprehends the evil it has done? The answer to this question matters. If it's the first or the last, then yes Spike & Angel are fully responsible for all the evil they did. Perhaps a measure of grace could be extended to them for being literally incapable of feeling guilt & remorse, as one might do with a psychopath should we ever find a cure for psychopathy. But Spike & Angel are still the entities who did those things while wearing the stolen flesh of another being. But if it's the second, then no. How can a person be morally responsible for the evil done by another being who stole their identity? They are the victim, not the perpetrator. And yet, cruelly, they still have the memory of having done all these evil things. Alas, as far as I can tell, the show's answer to this question is murky. Angel's journey tries to have it both ways. On the one hand, he takes responsibility for all the evil he has done and works to atone for it with the hope that one day he will earn his reward and regain his humanity. This suggests that the vampire and the soul are a single being. And yet he speaks of his darkness like a demon inside himself, as if it were a separate being he is constantly fighting to keep under control rather than acknowledging that the demon *is* him. Angelus is similarly murky. Whenever Angel temporarily loses his soul, Angelus surfaces and the show characterizes it as him being unshackled from the chains of morality and remorse, utterly disgusted by the "debasement" he was forced to endure. This suggests that Angel & Angelus are the same entity, And yet the show treats Angel & Angelus as two separate entities, as does the entire Scooby gang. With the exception of Xander whose opinion of Angel as culpable for all the evil he has done is constantly depicted as wrong and prejudiced, fueled by jealousy. So anyway, that's a long winded way to say the Buffyverse tried to have it's cake and eat it too. I think the writers went with whatever would ratchet up the drama and the angst in the moment, but it came at the cost of weakening the vampire's power to address the themes of guilt and responsibility that were so prevalent thought-out the show's run.
Because he had ANY bad experience like MANY of them. Please ask the writers. PLEASE. They will "validate" and other things because they are afraid of bullies like almost everyone on this thread (who cancel people WITHOUT knowing the facts) but they KNOW who were the divas.
He's not allowed to. If he were to say yeah, Joss was ridiculously intense but those other people were giant pussies that cried anytime someone yelled at them, he would be vilified and cancelled. That's the society that we now live in.
Josh Whedon was abusive towards him, but of course he wasn't a pregnant woman, so yes his experience is going to be different. However, in any other industry, a boss grabbing somebody, shoving that person against the wall whilst berating them would be completely unacceptable.
While I understand the whole "overcoming bad things as an adolescent" angle, having Spike continue in the show makes more sense because more often than not those things continue to follow you even into adulthood. The fact that Spike was more honest about things, where everyone else was in denial or trying to sugarcoat it, was refreshing. Plus, I like to think Spike eventually joining the good guys is similar to making peace with your faults/past.
Yeah, I mean, Spike had a good redemption arc and Marsten was great at selling that gradual change. It bothers me that it was okay for the show's creator and head writer to be an utter dick to everyone, especially the women in the cast, in real life as a way to blow off his stress, yet it's going too far to show an abusive male character onscreen slowly learning not to be abusive. I think Whedon was really telling on himself there.
For years I genuinely thought James was British. Had no clue whatsoever that it was a fake accent. Didn’t find out about it being fake until like 4 years ago. I’m still not used to hearing him without the accent lol.
When he played Brainiac later on Smallville I said to my brother "Spike"s American accent isn't very good." Later on I found out dude was from texas and felt like a dummy
@@jagmaida5074 Ahaha lol. That’s great! Don’t feel bad though. His British accent is very good, and the first time I heard him talk without it, I thought his American accent was the fake one. Not because I thought it was bad though, I had just heard him talk with the British accent for so long. I’m talking multiple seasons of Buffy and a few of Angel.
This. Spot on. Spike always knew exactly who he was and didn't hide or run from it. Even if who he was, was an evil sadistic bastard, he embraced that.
@@garytaylor8616 Klaus was meant to die?! No fricking way. I rate the originals massively over tvd. Klaus is EVERYTHING! and this is why I'm single 😂😂
You know what…I love him as an actor & person-no matter what the accent. I was going through a tough spot & my daughter ran into him at a ComicCon. After she took her pic she asked if he would please record a brief message for her mom who’s not feeling well & that she’d happily pay extra. He smiled, asked for her phone & my name & recorded me an almost 2 minute message. That’s longer than many people spend taking their pictures with him. It was quite the surprise & makes me smile to this day. I was so touched & you best believe I’ve backed it up onto a thumb drive in case the cloud ever explodes or I lose my phone.
Spike is one of TV's greatest stand out characters. He really injected a fresh boost into the series and definitely got us through the Riley episodes each week. 😅
@@BarrySlisk The Initiative drugged all of the soldiers to make them stronger and eventually caused Riley some health problems. There was also the relationship problems he and Buffy had during season 5.
I liked Riley. I dont understand the hatred. He was actually good for Buffy. But she was the slayer and shut him out. Causing him to spiral. I've done the bad boy thing. Over it. Give me a boring good Ole boy like Riley any day.
@@BarrySlisk He did, umm.. getting bitten by vampire prostitutes... which was as close as the network could get to him doing drugs without him actually doing drugs. Bad storyline for a worse character.
James *earned* his role as Spike and played the hell out of it. I wasn't too crazy about the Spike/Buffy romance, but acting-wise he never broke stride. I kind of wish he'd transferred to the "Angel" cast earlier.
I hated the Buffy/Spike romance, but not because of the hero-falling-for-the-villain angle, although I wasn’t crazy about that aspect either. But I hated the Buffy/Spike thing because it completely changed her character. For lack of a better word, she became a slut, and that was entirely off-putting. I get that the plot-point was that she came back from Hell lacking a soul and feeling completely empty inside, but her constantly having sex with Spike made it like every single other teen CW show. And I can’t stand those shows.
I live on Hollywood North. Bullshit liberal ideas of what you see in america aside bleeding hearts n shit. Canadians are a diffrent mix of conservatives and liberals then you. With that in mind. All I hear about all of Hollywood is idiot major actors and directors. Talking insane 1% about how much money they make. I know tons and tons of people in all trades. In the movie industry up here who think the old days were sick. Smallville included these guys mean well with out question
I was friends with James back in late 80s when he was just starting out in Chicago. One of the nicest, sweetest guys you could meet. He stole every one of the productions he was in. He made my 20th birthday one of the best I have ever had--what I remember of it.
It's always great to hear that someone you like and admire as an actor in a series/movie is actually a cool guy in real life. I met David Boreanz (Angel) once and he was a dick.
I got to meet James when I worked at a coffee shop and he truly couldn’t have been a nicer guy. So polite and down to earth. It was really an awesome experience.
James Marsters made Spike into one of the best villains/anti-heroes of television history. And Marsters is a class act being interviewed by the best Lex Luthor ever in Michael Rosenbaum.
Marsten is drop-dead gorgeous, which helped. Charismatic as all shit, and that also helped. But he is also a massively underrated actor, who always played Spike as someone who was dealing with secret pain and insecurities and hiding them in boast and bluster, and that was probably what snatched the heart of the audience. And his comical timing --impeccable!
The thing about all of the news about Joss that came out the last few months that amazed me is that every single cast member has come out in support of each other, without fail. It makes me like Buffy more, because I know all the people I'm seeing on screen are great humans who are supporting each other, even if the man behind the camera is less than supportive.
It is good they came out but what is disturbing as always is people wait years to say something. Collectively if they would have done this when it happened, that would have sent a huge message. Change can and will never happen as long as people sit back years silent and then come out years later to pile on. Maybe Joss would have got minor help and he wouldn't have got outrageously bad it this is true. But the same thing happens time and time again people refuse to say something and come together in that moment which would have made the difference. Joss is now a multi millionaire and will not be punished if this is true. So what was the point of this? Just to ride some hash tag and say me too and I stand with you.
@@stevemyopinion423 yeah technically sarah didnt say anything or alyson..seth ..david..amy ..eliza etc..they support charisma but they didn't say anything about joss
I think one thing that gets lost is that Buffy was his first show. So when Charisma Carpenter got pregnant and suddenly... surprise! Costume budget goes up and you have to use body doubles or rethink entire scenes. All that in an episodic show where everything has to be carefully planned out. It is also interesting how actor chemistry factors in. Another example is Arya and The Hound in Game of Thrones. In the book, the only reason Sandor doesn't rape her is because he's trying to turn her in to a Stark supporter to join their side. It's on his mind and very much not beneath him because he's a horrible person throughout. Arya only takes him off her "list" due to Stockholm Syndrome. So it makes complete sense when he appears to be mortally wounded that she would not offer him any kind of mercy. In the show the actors had great chemistry and people saw a surrogate father/daughter relationship. So the story beat where she leaves him to die seemingly comes out of nowhere.
@@stevemyopinion423 A lot said they didn't see anything specific, but that they completely believe Charisma, and they talk about how with Michelle Tracktenburg (spelling bad), who played Dawn, there was some incident and then an on-set rule that they wouldn't let her be with Joss alone. I think just because his intensity that Spike especially talked about would be a lot for Michelle, considering she was just a kid at the time.
I think that what people loved about spike wasn't that he was evil, but rather that he represented *frustrated* evil. _Every_ brilliant plan that Spike came up with died a horrible death, and he always showed that frustration *brilliantly* .
@Stephen Samuel that WOULD be called redemption . You and I , are simply on the subject of ... evil . So Spike wasn't evil ... he was simply " frustrated evil " ? What you meant to type was people don't care for him for the fact that he's evil , or was , but for the fact he has REDEEMABLE qualities. Same as any anti - hero lest they be a straight up villain. Evil is evil . Good is good . Neither is ever perfect , only what they are and in that , they can become the upmost representation of said energy ... i.e. good or bad.
@@SoulJAHJustICE He started out as excellent comic relief. As he stayed, because of his popularity, they eventually needed a redemption arc to justify not killing him off.
He's a good actor, yes, and I continue to enjoy his work, but he was not so charming when I met him. This was right after Buffy ended and he was about to be on Angel, at DragonCon in Atlanta. During both the autograph signing as well as the Q&A panel with his band, he just seemed annoyed to be there. Folks got short, snippy responses and even a few eyerolls. I'm going to give him the good grace of assuming that I had the misfortune of encountering him as he was having a bad day. It happens. I will say that at least my experience with everyone else there was lovely, and it's rare that I have a bad experience with a celebrity at one of those things.
Marsters really seems like a class act. Fair, balanced, rational, able to see multiple perspectives while absolutely not in any way denying the realities of what, for example, Carpenter endured. Also, I'd argue Spike's redemption arc works perfectly into the theme of growing up and adolescence. I'd argue a part of growing up is realizing "evil" is mostly a matter of perspective. Evil people see themselves as good people. And they see you as evil. There are very few Skeletors in the world, that revel in "being evil". And people can, and will, change - given the right circumstances. So treating Spike as someone whose perspective mattered, and who was able to change and break free from his (self)destructive cycle… That was great. I absolutely love it when shows like Supernatural humanize their "evil" characters. You may dislike them, you may think they're in the wrong, but it's always possible to see their point after a while. They're… "human". And this is how we should see eachother. I don't think my political opponents are Skeletor. They're not wringing their hands, trying to find ways to make the world worse. No - they're trying to make the world better. We just disagree on what "better" means. And there's always hope that I or someone else will be able to persuade them to change their minds. (Almost) noone is truly lost forever.
@@InfinitePublics I'm rewatching Buffy & Angel right now (following along w/ Alleybox, who's watching for the first time). And I'm warming to Angel more and more. I used to dislike him, but now I just feel like he had a different function. Angel was the First Boyfriend type of experience, and embodied that very well. Then we got some nyance and complications in that portrayal, and especially in Angel his "dark and brooding" persona is shown to be mostly just a front. Just like most people, he has is ups and downs, stuff he's good at and stuff - like socializing - he's pretty bad at and tries to cover up. Angel didn't have quite as interesting an arc as Spike, but I feel like his arc, too, was "worth it". Also, I'm kind of happy Buffy ends up boyfriendless at the end of the show(s). She doesn't need a man to be complete or her own person. If she finds someone that's good for her and works out, that's great. But being in a relationship isn't the most important thing in the world. It's completely possible to have a fulfilling life and never having a partner or a family. I feel like some people attach too much significance on romantic relationships.
Spike's arc was much more complicated than people accept. Spike, whilst soulless, managed to do good things for the right reasons, he displayed loyalty and love in a way no other vampire did. But he was still soulless, so there were things he'd do that people judged him for that they didn't judge Drucilla or Angel for. Even though he was better than both of them, still capable of good, even without a soul.
@@InfinitePublics I completely agree with you on both comments you made. Spike is a very complex character canon wise, he is the bad guy for the beginning of his existence. But he always had more of a heart and motivation than Angel ever did. Like Angel became obsessed with and "became a good person" for a 15 year old (he originally sees Buffy before she gets to Sunnydale and in that scene from context clues I believe she's 15) he treats her like a child through a lot of their interactions and relationship; despite the fact he also tries to get her to do a lot of difficult things and to make really harsh decisions. He isn't healthy for Buffy at all and he sets the view of a lot of the characters and how they see Vampires and demons in general. He sets characters unwillingness to see that Spike could at all be doing good for Buffy, and even Dawn's, sake just because he cares about them. Because Xander (for a good example) has seen what Angel is willing to do and why, along with who he is, the monster he is without his soul. Angel/Angelus is the template cookie cutter version of "the best and worst" a vampire could possibly be. Even though there are much better examples of both. It causes Xander to be unwilling to see any demon as good especially Spike without a soul. Thus ruining any chances with Anya and any connection with other demons both good and bad. And yet by the end of the series even with the soul Xander and a lot of the other characters are too hardend and angry to accept Spike could ever change even though they themselves (like Willow) get a second chance, just because they are human. Spike set the stage for a chance in the show to prove that even if you're human you're not on a pedestal over all demons and other beings just because you're human and have a soul. It could have dug deep into other dimensions and beings and proven than change is both possible and inevitable when you live for a very long time like Buffy seems to be in for as a Slayer or Spike or hell even Anya. That you can be better than others of your species. How they did Anya's character always bugged me because she's this millenium old "was human then a demon and back again" who evolves into a good person and cares for people. But by the end they just kick her out of the show and tie it down as "she was only in it for Xander and now she's back as a jealous demon" coulda been a lot more to that but whatever. The show could have evolved in a lot of ways to show who you are depends entirely on who you want to be in the end. Like with Dawn, she's not entirely human, she's a key and yet look at how she's changed while BEING a human AND being treated like one. Could have definitely kept with the theme of growing up Yaknow?
I agree with the general consensus that James playing Spike as he did was one of the best casting moves ever. He bought that quick thinking dry wit to the show every time (especially as the writing was so funny- a dramedy although that term hadn't been an official genre back then, and bought a depth to the character. In one way he WAS OR BECAME the epitome of a character overcoming evil, because I do believe he actually did love Buffy. The attempted assault after they became physically together was a real turning point both plot and character wise. Plot-in that when he left after that and the anger, suggested a revenge / evil plot so when he went to reclaim his soul to be worthy of her not just for the sex but the wanting to be a better person for her in every way was such a beautiful surprise and as the one to sacrifice himself at the end and acceptance hit me hard anyway. And, it was one of a handful of shows that defined the time it was written in. It was a favourite show of mine and I was obsessed with it. And let's just say it-damn he was sexy as hell!
This guy’s English accent was exceptional in it’s execution. Us Brits can usually spot a fake English accent, but Spike’s was very convincing even to us!
Yeah it was a bit confusing at first. Juliet Landau sounded really fake, so it made me question Spike too. I thought he was Canadian. But when Drusilla was gone his British accent seemed more convincing, and I just assumed it would be silly to employ an American to play a British person when you could get a British person like Anthony Head. Of course, I never knew he was only intended to be in a few episodes of one season.
@@garrick3727 I do agree with you about Drucilla sounding fake. Buffy also highlights to American audiences the cockney dialect isn't the only type of English accent! Thanks Giles and Ethan Rayne for your received pronounciation!
Met Marsters at a convention a couple of years ago. Such a class act, so humble despite being so popular and having a HUGE line for photos and autographs.
Spike added a new dynamic to the series that was starting to stagnate. To his credit Joss rose to the challenge and wrote a redemption of evil arc that gave us one of the most memorable villains in fiction.
I lived in New Orleans for a long time and in my line of work meetings of famous people. I agree with you totally!! Brad Paisley was the most nice, respectful and absolutely the coolest I met out of 100s of famous people. He came to my gym that I ran and worked out when he opened for George strait and nobody even recognized him but me because I was at his concert video before. My girlfriend was at that concert that night and still there with George strait at the end and he calls her on her cell phone saying he wish he could have met her because I was a nice guy and he wanted to do something cool for me since I let him work out for free!! She did not answer because she was at the concert and did not hear the voicemail until about 30 minutes later. When I tell you that made that girls year I am not exaggerating for one second. He did it just be a nice guy and it worked let's just say it made me more browning points than you could ever imagine!! He was nice enough to take pictures with me and my crew and leave me probably $2,000 worth of signed t-shirts and CDs and I didn't even ask! He asked me to begin with how I knew what he looked like and why I wasn't at the concert and I said my girlfriend is there with her other boyfriend! He laughs sits down at my desk and says I got to hear the story so I told him! One of the coolest nicest guys I think you'd ever have the possibility of meeting cuz he took the time out of his night to make my millennium and to make a girl he didn't even know smile! The only other celebrity I have that I seen something to even close to that was Faith Hill but I was not up on personal with her. And her concert there was a girl there was 8 years old and dying from cancer. If they'll stop the concert in the middle of a song and made sure that girl got to come back and talk to her. It was and her last wish from the Make-A-Wish foundation to go to her concert!! When I saw her do that and meaning what she was doing I did not care if they canceled the concert as long as that little girl got to go see Faith Hill! On the next end I met rock stars Playboy models pornstars movie stars and all kinds of crazy stuff and most of them are just not even worth a bullet if you want to be honest. But a lot of the ones a lot of people are down on were nice as hell. I work in strip clubs and security for over 20 years. My job at one of them was to look over and watch out for the porn stars that were touring! You think a lot of those would be really nasty people but I'm telling you not one of them was mean to me at all. They treated me more than well a few of them if you know what I mean and always tell me well and we're more polite than your average person by far!! They might not be that way to everybody because I'm a 250 lb bodybuilder with blonde hair and blue eyes so yeah I probably got treated a little nicer than most but I did not expect anybody in that profession to be as courteous as they all were even the guys that came through with the girls! I even got body checked One Time by Henry Winkler the fonz!! I couldn't believe how short he was and he ran into me and had the nerve to give me a dirty look but it was Mardi gras. I didn't see who it was initially and I was ready to yell at somebody for not looking where they were going and I shut my mouth because I was surprised to see it with him!! He kind of walked off after giving me it already looked because well he was so small it was like getting a brick wall when he ran into me LOL. My girlfriend at the time did not even really believe me because it was Mardi gras and you couldn't see through the crowd to show her!! I always wanted to meet the cast of fluffy's vampire Slayer and I met a few of them in parties in Louisiana especially at the ones that Anne Rice through but I never got to meet James or Buffy herself! Out of all of them the biggest dick I met was the lead singer of motley Crue. For some reason he didn't think he had to pay for drinks and he was wrong. It was past the year 2000 and I wasn't a starry eyed teenage girl. I don't know why the hell he thought he was going to drink for free in a club like mine when nobody there even recognized him!! Well I did but I used to be in metalhead in the 80s in the '90s. When I wish I would have met was another one in Buffy which was charisma Carpenter!! Now that will make my day at the time! I used to run strip clubs down there and the girl I ended up being with was the most famous one down there and she kind of looked like charisma Carpenter but honestly hotter but I bet your Christmas Carpenter was 10 times nicer! Plus she still looks good and my ex got fat LOL. Serves her right to see the least. She got famous because she was the most famous dancer down there or when we were there and it really just made her into a famous whore the way she handled it she wasn't here as cool as she thought she was! One thing I always was curious about though is I used to be when I was down there at competitive 250 lb blonde hair blue eye Bodybuilder!!! Honestly a good looking guy and I wonder if they would have all been so nice to me if I was just a normal looking guy back then? I used to be a fat kid so I'm not one of those arrogant bodybuilder types that everybody hates. I can stereotype like that until you know me though. I wonder if all those Stars would have been half as nice to me if I looked normal! I can guarantee you Brad Paisley still would have.
Surely you mean to say that he comes across as nice and cool, or that he seems to be nice and cool. You cannot possibly know or say that he is in fact those things by watching a brief interview.
Joss sound like he’s got anger problems. Why would he throw his actor against the wall because he had fans from the show? It makes absolutely no sense. The guy is just doing his job, not protesting being killed off or anything.
Anger, control… a bunch of stuff. There is a possibility of a bit of the George Lucas effect too, where nobody challenged him and he basically got away with whatever.
Well, when one's Mentor is Rossanne Barr, having seen how she handled things and got away with them at least in the Nineties, I can see how Joss Whedon would use those similar type of tactics in his own shows.
The confusing element of Spike being a legitimately older and bad guy and yet him and Buffy having this odd chemistry, and afterwards her pushing him away and him being left to deal with it was one of the more realistic things I took from this show. Girls are vulnerable to falling for the wrong guy, and guys are vulnerable to having their hearts broken. It's confusing, it's exciting, it's bad for both and you need to learn from it. If that didn't sum up my teenage years then nothing did.
As much as I agree with you there is one thing Spike does that I really struggled with and that's the scene that was almost a r@pe. It was way too obvious what was happening and yeah it triggered me more than I'd like. Spike trying to bite Willow that time was just a rip off the old ED line...we can try again later if you'd like. "This doesn't happen with me"
@@michellemelville8979 I think that was to drive in the point that Spike, for all his character development and love for Buffy he was inherently a broken man. Both us the viewers and him, the character, getting that final point driven through was what also made him realise that he had to finally come to terms with that and him fighting to get a soul can be seen as a broken and out of control man finally going to therapy and slowly starting to get his act togheter. But yeah, i do get the struggle with that scene, it is in no way good...
@hamsterminator • "Guys are vulnerable to getting their hearts broken." Maybe Taylor Swift was right when she wrote, "Boys only want love if it's torture." Spike certainly fit that bill with Drusilla then Buffy.
@@spencerwillock You try to be fair minded,the cancel culture mob comes for you.Sadly,thats why many celebs just throw their colleagues under the bus.James masters is courageous.
I always loved Spike more than Angel. I don't really like the mopey brooding hero trope (I loved Damon over Stefan). I thought it was much more heroic that Spike was able to love even without a soul, and he fought to regain his soul instead of being cursed. Angel was a total Chad as a human, a self preserving narcissist as a vampire, and a whiny little bitch when he was cursed with a soul. Team Spike all the way!
Spike tried to rape Buffy and while his character was fun to watch, I never shipped him with Buffy. Damon is the epitome of mediocre white male privilege, he’s nowhere as near interesting. 😒
Amen! All the way. As a teen though I did feel torn between Angel and Spike. The sad thing is I was with an older emotionally abusive guy who Angel reminded me of.....so Buffy romanticized that for me in a bad way. Buffy respected herself more with pushing away Spike but then of course went through her weird dark period.....but Spike seemed to always be more committed to her also in the end. Angel's reasons to leave were also pathetic IMO. Wonderful show. I still watch an episode or two from time to time. But I do think teens shouldn't be watching that type of show without someone more mature and responsible there to talk then through it all. Especially if they are already a "troubled" teen. Lol
@@pisceswaterfaerie82 I don't get why anyone likes Stefan. At all. His personality was meh imo if not downright creepy (less creepy as a ripper lmao) and he uggo. Haha I feel bad saying it but that's how I feel. Damon is.....*muah* 💋 🤌
I loved James on Buffy, he was amazing!! His character was at times dark, at times funny and at times sarcastic - he brought all this into it and made himself indispensable x
My favorite scenes with him are.... Him & Joyce having a conversation!! "You came at me with an axe telling me to stay away from my daughter!!" Or when he would describe when Dru went on her own "little trip" & say crazy things. He always added to the story so much!!
James Marsters' reading of The Dresden Files book series is magnificent. The acting he is doing with just his voice where he is playing every character in the books is extraordinary. I really like The Dresden Files. I absolutely love James Marsters reading The Dresden Files.
@@lex_rodriguez I did some tech work for a college production (while a student). And it wasn’t uncommon for those students and lectures to have arguments and randomly throw out breaks just to calm everyone down. This even went on to the back stage people.
@@QuietlyCurious I’ll never forgot - an actor demanding no one looks at them while they sing I rehearsals -another demanding their dress be made shorter repeatedly to the costume department until 3 days before the show when they decide it’s now too short -a lead getting pissed off because the dress rehearsal crowd was enjoying the supporting character more than the lead. -arguments over who got the leading roles -constant breaks for smokers I only worked with them for 2 weeks…..
As the guy said he set his standards extremely high and applied those most to himself. If you go into a job where you are expecting to be paid millions you should expect to have extremely high standards demanded. If you aren't willing to have that level of commitment then community theatre is there, but taking the millions over the years and then once your career is gone to jump on a bandwagon to try to get some publicity is trashy
@@irrevenant3 I think you both are missing that he's accused of being toxic for being aggressive and screaming at the actors like described here in the video
What an articulate, well-spoken guy. It's really good to discover the actors behind the characters turn out to be as sharp as you figured them to be....
The morality tale culminating with Spike going through hell to make himself better for Buffy is one of the greatest villain reversal stories in history. Marsters mentioning Wizards while being the voice of Harry Dresden in the Dresden Files audiobooks makes me quite happy.
He never went to trought hell to make himself better for buffy After he tried to rape her he went through hell to become how he was because he wanted to kill her,the demon just screwed him over and said he never could complete the trial he needs,and then gave him his soul instead)
It sounds like Whedon wanted to tell an over simplified morality story, and the people wanted and appreciated something deeper. I think what we ended up with is magnificent. It says, to me, we are all capable of being monsters, but we don't have to stay monsters. Spike ends up becoming the real hero of Buffy. Spike ended up becoming a bit of a messianic figure, voluntarily excepting the weight of his sins and becoming a hero.
I think what is closer to the truth is that he wanted to tell a moral story where good wins definitively, but people got tempted by the glam and confidence(because that's how evil persists) and the result is that he had to find compromises where good is on top even though evil persists, much like how reality actually works, and the result is that it winds up being a much more relatable story overall, because he's still struggling to have good ultimately succeed.
@@GreyAcumen I tend to think more that relatability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Whedon successfully told his story where good triumphed over evil, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "definitively". Good ultimately wins, but it does not always win, and especially not without sacrifice. Stories where good and evil are easily identified, are morally simple, and generally for children. That is not to say that adults can not also enjoy morally simplistic stories. Most comic books are excellent examples of this. Fun for all ages. But Buffy was a show for teenagers and adults, and that audience tends to demand a little more moral complexity. And I believe that they demand that moral complexity as it more accurately reflects the good and evil that exists in us all, thus, generally making morally complex stories more relatable to the average adult
Too often producers and writers underestimate their audience and try to make every plot a simple morality story, where good and evil are clearly defined, and good ultimately triumphs. One thing Game of Thrones taught us is that audiences understand that life is actually more complicated than that and that we prefer more nuanced characters.
Considering the time period of when his character was saved from the cutting room floor I'd say the reasoning had little to do with depth, at the time, but I do agree we got a story with much more depth by his continued inclusion in the overall series.
I mean, that's what you got because that's what Joss created. He was telling deep and complex stories from the very start tho. I think Marsden's high audience rating had less to do with fans wanting different storytelling, and more to do with the charming (thanks to Marsden and Landau) Billy Idol/Sid & Nancy thing. The studio made their demand, Joss made it work. "Lie to Me" was made during this time period and Angel was already a thing, so...I kinda think Marsden is being a tad disingenuous about the kind of stories Joss was writing at this time. He was already starting to touch on the attraction to evil. After all, with Spike, good did in fact ultimately triumph and Buffy ultimately never deviated from that motif. Buffy ain't Breaking Bad, ya know?
Marsters seems like a fair guy. Very rational and reasonable, able to look at different points of view without unnecessary villainizing or minimizing anyone else's experiences.
@@travis8850 True, I get it though. A lot are trying to push back a little against cancel culture, especially when no serious crimes have been committed, but they don't want to become targets of the mob themselves. It's a ridiculous situation.
i remember this specific story of joss backing james into a wall and also other stories of joss saying 'you're fired' on set. these stories date back years through interviews and even the dvd commentary. but the way it was told, it always seemed like it was done in a light-hearted and joking manner. never in a million years did i think joss was seriously mean-spirited. but it makes sense given the size of his ego that he thinks it is ok to treat people this way. i remember on the dvd commentary of 'cabin in the woods' when drew goddard tells the story of how he was set to direct the movie from the start, but halfway through the writing process (him and joss spent a weekend writing it in a hotel room), joss told him that he wanted to direct it instead, and drew felt crushed by it. in the dvd commentary joss dismisses it and says he doesnt remember ever saying that. clearly he did because drew was expressing how upset he was when joss said that. since joss has all the power, when joss said he wanted it, drew knew he couldn't do anything about it.
I loved Spikes character and Drusilla! They are so talented! That was seriously an amazing show and never can be remade to be better than that! The humor and sarcasm, absolutely one of my favorite shows till this day!
I absolutely hated Dru. I couldn never take her serious. Her character was annoying. Glad she left the show. The actress did a great job but I just didn't like her character.
I agree with you. I loved the Spuffy story ARC but honestly I don't think 2 characters from this series or spin offs had more raw animalistic heat than Spike and Druscilla. The 2 actors have such crazy chemistry it's amazing to watch.
I was in the military when I first saw Buffy.....my friends were watching it and I joked about them watching a girl's show......I watch an episode.....I was hooked. It was the episode Hush. Spike was a great character. He was the Yin while Angel was the Yang.
I thought his accent was decent but I knew he was American when he first appeared because of an interview. The one that got me was Alexis Denisoff and I was convinced he was British. I saw him later in a UK show called Bugs, where he had an American accent and thought he was putting it on. Turns out that was his real voice.
@@alyxhazlett6183 You shouldn't believe people just because they have XX chromosomes. That's just silly and bizarre. Don't assume that they're automatically lying, but expect some proof. Something to back up the story. I've never seen any proof of anything regarding Joss Whedon. Sounds like he's an intense perfectionalist that can get carried away, and a person could easily perceive that as abusive, but a person could also easily perceive it the way that James did. Eye of the beholder.
Pushing an actor against the wall and telling him that's he dead because you're frustrated with the character he plays is irrational, and actually assault. So while Marters relates it as not being that big of a deal, it really adds to the idea of Whedon being an angry egomaniac.
When Spike first makes an appearance, he's scary. He brought danger and a sense that Buffy could really be at risk...I loved Spike for the color and dimension he brought to the show. His story arc was pretty sad for awhile, which was the danger in keeping him just to make us happy.
The way they portrayed Spike worked because of James' charisma. Normally, he'd feel like an underwhelming loser but James managed to own almost all his scenes with other characters
Yup. I remember being so confused because Spike was the bad guy but… I liked him. His charisma, his humor and eventually depth. I always felt like Angelus should have been more Spikish. By that I mean… a little more edge. You’re a Vampire centuries old. There should be a level of cynicism and an iron shell to go along with the high levels of brooding. What the Spike character taught me at a young age watching his arc is that everyone has a back story. It also taught me, over time, that while everyone may have a reason for the messed up things that they do, it still doesn’t mean that it’s right and it doesn’t guarantee you the chance for redemption. (Even though Spike got his chance). Whedon may have hated him but people loved Spike for a reason. I think he was the bad ass that a lot of us wanted to be… without all the blood and bitey bitey of course.
Spike was designed to be a villain ... Whedon very very clearly didn't intend for the character to stay around beyond Season 2/Season 3 never mind until the end of the both Buffy/Angel
I was working at the network at the time and even on our side, we had some occasional bits of weirdness with Whedon. I had one run-in with him because I wrote a spec Buffy script during season one and he screamed at me over the phone about it, solely because it existed and I was interested in writing for the series. Ah well, mostly good memories.
@@andredunhos4097 Because they are virtue signaling, i.e. signalling the virtuous they are to the world in an attempt to hide the fact that they are actually horrible people.
@@andredunhos4097 I have an even better question: why everyone was so supportive (including actors) of Joss Whedon before all of this exploded? You rarely hear anything bad about Joss (I didn't even know there were issues on Buffy set until recently) and then bang, everyone is against him.
There’s a lot of them just not a lot of A list ones, and considering UK television isn’t very popular in the states while American television is popular in the UK it makes sense.
Amazing that James Marsters had such charisma, he was able to transform the show by pushing Joss to be more and more creative with his character. Such a cool story.
Agreed. As James says, here, it's your football, giving Joss that opportunity to move the goal posts made a character that grew and grew. We loved Spike all through out both series, because of this. I don't know any other actor that could've done it though.
Several friends and I have just watched all of Buffy again and I forgot A) how much I loved it B) how incredible Spike was as a character and how much of an incredible arc he had. Spike and Willow are my favourites for sure.
Absolutely! Spike was my favorite character in the show! Hands down! He had the best lines... the writing was absolutely perfect. It went the way it was supposed to, and honestly it MADE the show. Every person in that cast was a necessary piece of the puzzle, each one was needed. It became magic, and that's why we are still talking about it to this day, and why there are new fans of the show year after year.
I'm so happy they kept Spike in the show. In my opinion, he made the whole show. Me (like everyone else apparently!) were instantly captivated by him from his very first scene. His arc in the series was amazing! Also, *Spuffy* forever.
Whedon: "This is the baddie." Audience: "We like him." Whedon: "No! He's the baddie!" Audience: "People are complex and capable of change." I'm Team Audience here.
Even beyond the complex and capable of change, which was done incredibly in Spikes story arc, evil characters can still be "cool" without saying evil is good. Darth Vader was thought of as "cool" even before the father thing was added and a redemption. Angelus is even thought of as being pretty cool, and he was pretty much the most evil in personality. Spike and Dru were written as cool characters even before the audience rallied to keep Spike around. So the problem wasn't really so much that "Evil isn't supposed to be cool" but more that he wrote that the character was supposed to be killed, even though he was already written as a cool character, and now they couldn't kill him off.
@@HealthyObbsession I mean I kind of understand though spike was literally killing innocent people without remorse and the audience was gushing over it. The rabid fanbase is one of the reasons why I can never discuss this show without having some of my love for the show ripped away because the fan base could be totally dense most of the time.
I was fortunate enough to see/hear James at a convention, a few years back. He surprised us all by how funny, thoughtful and entertaining he was. Much respect!
My wife and I are huge fans of this series. Have it all on DVD, and have gone through it at least two times. I loved spikes character in the show. And can't envision it without him. I know it was Joshes writing. But James had a great way of delivering that evil persona, with always a hint of sarcasm and perfect wit.. that made you just love to root for him. "Thanks" James for all the many hours of enjoyment! 😊💖💖
Just two!? Explain the simpleton look you have for a character that tried to rap a girl but hey, great abs and "sympathetic" story line huh. Y'all are fuqin sick and missed the point of the relationship. He was toxic, period. It's not that deep
The best part about Joss's writing was that he gave him a redemption arc. And EVERYONE LOVES REDEMPTION ARCS. It speaks to the hope we all have when we know we're wrong. That's the way I see it.
Spike's character reminds me a lot of how Castiel changed Supernatural: both of those characters were supposed to be killed off fairly quickly but the actors playing them were too attractive and charismatic to allow for it. While I loved Spike and Cas, the plotlines that had to be created around them did ultimately lead to the deterioration of the shows. I hope Kripke never goes Whedon because The Boys is still shockingly good.
How did either lead to a deterioration of the shows? Without them in their respective shows the main characters would have had less dimension and less outside influence which gave the plots more depth.
Supernatural went down hill because it was dragged out beyond the original scope and it got tired using the same song and dance of needing a big evil to overcome for subsequent seasons. There were good moments but I felt that ending it at season 5 was the better choice. Castiel’s story beyond season 5 was horrendous to me. I had no interest in it. I enjoyed the initial seasons of Sam and Dean doing normal hunts and I felt that they went a bit far in levelling up their big bads and levelling down their allies like Castiel for the sake of continuation and convenience to the plot. When Castiel and the angels came in, and Lucifer’s acting, it was great and summed up nicely with Sam in hell. A bitter ending but one that felt concluded. Maybe if they had taken a subsequent season in a different direction then I would have enjoyed it more. I enjoyed Misha acting as Lucifer pretending to be Castiel as well as Crowley interactions in the later seasons. There was potential and several good moments within an overall downhill plot. Characters good, plot bad is what I saw. The only reason I continued to watch Buffy at all was because of Spike. Buffy’s actions were often annoyingly blind (with the strict good versus evil thing) and I hated Angel and his characterisation. There was the whole moral superiority of Angel, despite him being forced into it and being a bad human to start with, whereas Spike is more nuanced and voluntarily became good. Nuance and maturity kept me interested.
Love love LOVE this interview, Spike was one of the best characters on Buffy, I'm actually watching the re-runs of Buffy on the Comet channel every night, Whedon made the right move by keeping him!!! 🙌👌
@@YourCreepyUncle. Yeah. He's great for comedy and 14 year old girls who love bad boys I guess, but I'd argue both shows had more nuanced and developed characters in them.
@@anatoldenevers237 Yeah I enjoyed Spike when he was a legit Evil badass, but the second they went to mopey lovesick Spike, I was done... and honestly I might hate Souled Spike even more... not because he's a bad character, but because he makes ZERO sense based on the canon of Angel with a soul, and how massively it changes him.
This is so interesting! Spike was always one of my favourite characters from Buffy, I had no idea that any of this was going on behind the scenes. I love how respectful James Marsters is. Great video! I'm glad it popped up into my recommendations.
I loved the character of Spike on Buffy. The nuanced performance from James was very memorable and at times, extremely touching especially when Buffy brutally rejected him. It was such a fantastic show 👏
I think that "you're beneath me" scene on Buffy was forced and contrived on "Fool for Love" like I get they were trying to flashback on Spikes history but he verbatim statement felt forced.
Damn good thing they kept Spike. He is the best character. The episode when he comes back to town and drunk, his history episode killing the 2 slayers, all of them shined the brightest in the series.
I"m so grateful for James portrayal of Spike! He brought that character to LIFE and was a huge part of the shows success. I feel like Joss owes James lol
Greatest show of all time, no matter what you say about Whedon. Only series I can watch a million times and never get bored with it and always notice new things.
I always loved the line he gave when Buffy found him hanging about outside her home and told him to explain himself in 5 words or less: "Out. For. A. Walk....Bitch"
When he says everyone has their own experiences it's very true. When I worked in finance I had heard rumors of some guys and how horrible they would treat staff but they never treated me that way and never treated the staff horribly around me, they were on the best behavior around me. I believed our staff as I knew how two faced a lot the guys I worked with are but for a long time I wasn't in a position to do anything about it and worse these guys grew up in this culture and to them this is just how it was. I came from a teaching background and was adamant that you could actually do it differently and there was no need to treat staff like garbage. As a moved up along with my COO we made a lot of changes to the culture but the experience taught me that a guy like Whedon isn't surprising, so much of what was considered acceptable is due to culture and people within that culture don't realize it doesn't have to be that way or are powerless to stop it.
Marsters is such a terrific actor. I loved his snarky performance in Buffy. Spike looked like a punk rocker and pulled off the image perfectly. He was great in other shows such as Hawaii Five 0 (Victor Hesse) and Smallville (Brainiac). I was floored when I found out later that he wasn't actually English born. His accent totally fooled me. I hope we'll see him in future roles.
Piecing together all the different perspectives I've heard, it really seems like Joss is the type who takes on too much, gets frustrated when it doesn't go according to plan, and then lets that frustration and the pressure from those above him spill out on those working under him. That's both unhealthy and irresponsible, and the worst part of it is that he doesn't seem to be willing to acknowledge and apologize for it when it happens. Supposedly he's off "working on himself" right now, but he still hasn't come out and acknowledged what lines he's crossed. Maybe he will once he's figured it out, but until then it's like, what pride is he guarding at this point? Just eat the humble pie, man, it's good for you.
@@ItsMeBarnaby Thats total BS. Dan Harmon, a guy who went through VERY similar circumstances, acted badly and apologized and actually came out a much better person.
@@stackhat8624 Exactly what I was going to say. Dan Harmon gave a sincere apology, acknowledging not only what he did wrong but why it was wrong, and didn't deflect or make excuses for his behavior, he just reached out and took the criticism and asked what he could do, not to save his own ass but to help make things better for others and especially for the person directly affected. She called it a masterclass in apologizing and went on his podcast to talk about it (if I remember correctly). It was all very constructive. Of course, there are worse deeds than either Joss or Dan has committed, but that's a whole other conversation.
@@ItsMeBarnaby He got "destroyed" in the press for like a week, then bounced back and he's doing fine now. Rick and Morty is still going and he's working on other stuff as well.
The level of manipulation, psychological abuse, and sexual assault he put the girls/women under through? There is NO excuse for that. Your euphemistic comment belies the danger of this man and ignores his victims.
They wanted them back together, but she couldn't because she was working, so he made his remarkable comeback to the show, with that perfect "love is no brain" speech that made us miss him and love him. "Maybe I'm a love bitch, but I'm a man enough to admit it".
Looking back at the show now, learning more about it. You can see that because he was forced to keep the character, Whedon punished the character spike by going out of his way to tear him down. Every time Spike was becoming to well liked and too cool, a episode would come out where he turned into the huge comedic relief character. Or the easy bad guy to beat. He did it so often that the character became typecasted and was written that way for the rest of the show, and into the spinoff Angel. If they pulled back on the childish comedic releif just a little on the character in the final two seasons of Buffy, he easily could have dominated the male role for the show and create a great badass for Angel. Instead of just the cool, funny , occasionally badass, but mostly comedic, version in Angel. He was by far my favorite character, but i grew tired of seeing him get his butt whooped by everyone, all the time, every time..... They had a gold mine, and blew it up with dynamite.
Met James Marsters at Megacon several years ago. He made a recording for my son-in-law who had just graduated and was getting ready to attend law school. The guy couldn't have been nicer and we had a very nice few minutes together.
As much as I like Joss's work, I've heard too many stories about his temper and mannerisms to ignore it. Almost everyone in Hollywood has emotional issues, I've just come to accept that.
@@Tovek Look, Hollywood is a cesspool of degenerates. Has been for decades. There's a reason the actors etc. constantly talk about racism and sexism, because in contrast to nearly everywhere else it is a daily reality there. And then they project. But most of the abuse there is an open secret. The industry lauded and protected known abusers for years and former victims often assisted with procuring new targets and/or dished out their own abuse. It was only when it became profitable that some spoke up and then usually in a way to try to further their own careers. People in Hollywood also seldom grow into their positions, people "make it big". Which usually means that formerly awkward nerds and bullying victims who women wouldn't even look at are suddenly surrounded by hordes of some of the most beautiful young women begging for their favor. Actresses held to constantly unachievable standards suddenly get to set the (same) standards for others. All that power at people's finger tips. And as long as you are successful, people will look the other way, will help, encourage and flatter.... It is but a handful of actors that actually have the talent and charisma to command the stage (there's a reason most of those that do come over from theater). The rest are essentially glorified escorts and get treated as such. It is an actor's job to objectify themselves into a product ready for consumption. THAT is something we should tell the naive hopefuls going to LA. And it is the same for both sexes. Hollywood is a pyramid scheme of abuse - sexual, physical, mental.
Wow! James Marsters is a class act. He was a “multi-threat”, multitalented performer in so many ways before we even had the catch phrase. He attended Juilliard.
Joss Whedon is probably my favorite screenwriter. He is witty and clever, and just the right amount of off-beat. It broke my heart when all this stuff came pouring out. But that's also something the show (Buffy) was about. Growing up, figuring out which people are monsters, which monsters are people and who is somewhere in the middle.
This comment made me pine for a time when horrible people were good writers. Now, horrible people are horrible writers and fans are demeaned and name-called if we don't praise their every word.
@@voldlifilm Not really. I can point to the Lucasfilm story group and the current Moses Ingram controversy they have capitalized upon/manufactured to cover their lack of talent. The writers of Discovery kicked Walter Mosely (a black man) off the staff for using a racist term in context. They've used the same excuse to demean critics of S.M. Green's character as being unlikable and poorly written. And fans of both franchises are vilified (lumped in with the very few *real* racist ones) for any and all criticism of the narrative quality.
Wow this fascinating. Marsters shows real class breaking down Whedon’s side of the conflict. If anything Whedon did achieve a point with Spike’s character. Perhaps evil needs to be managed sometimes if overcoming it isn’t an option.
I agree. Realistically, people, as different as we all are, are likely going to find ourselves working somewhere. Everyday people put up with horrible employers, we shouldn't have to, but we do. Identifying the issue is important, addressing it is sometimes the best we can do, call them out, going above them or be prepared to leave, or ignore them if you can, just seeing them as the pathetic brat they are us sometimes satisfying.
The fact that he was the victim and still tries to put Whedon in a good light, saying that he was under a lot of pressure and just wanted to create something amazing, I mean, how nice can a person be?! He is too good for this world and that makes me sad.
I couldn’t imagine the show without Spike staying in it. He was 100% my favorite character in Buffy.
he was good, definitely no Parker though
even after attempting to rape the title character?
Had a friend in college, twenty years ago, that named his ferret Spike.
The loner, vampire, trenchcoat, SEX GOD that never got laid was his ENTIRE PERSONALITY!!!!
@@nostoon4332 that scene was low, but after that was great. If we are talking from a stance of the lore of the series, the demon that was Spike willingly locked itself a cage by bringing back the soul of William the human (not that he changed his name back or anything). His personality didn't shift was drastically as Angel, but they make it very clear repeatedly that the vampire isn't the actual person. It's "the thing that killed him" as Giles said about Jesse. So season 7 Spike (and on Angel season 5) is a new character in my eyes.
If you disagree, remember that pretty much no one in the fandom talks about Angel and holds him as responsible for torturing Giles or killing Jenny. We know those were the actions of the unrestrained demon Angelus
That scene was horrible but it was explained that Spike was still evil and he didn’t want the audience to forget that, which is why he went to get a soul after.
I respect James for saying "Everyone has their own experience and I'm not going to say they didn't."
Agree, VERY classy of him - I think the quote was "I'm not going to TELL them that they didn't" - and that's important, as that's what he would be doing if he contradicted them/someone. Glad to hear his experience was good, or at least not the hell that some of the women went through. Was so sad to learn that about Joss, I used to be such a fan of him. Now I have to separate him from the shows as there was a LOT more in them than just him and I figure by boycotting them I'm boycotting so much more than just Joss.
What is that even supposed to mean?
He is separating his personal experience from objective truth. He is giving space for the folks with bad or good experiences to own their own experiences. It is an insightful and classy way to say he can only speak for himself.
@@rubbercrutch1 truly agree
@@PeterParker-ff7ub It's vain, egocentric Hollywood speak for there is no objective truth. Only feelings and each egos interpretation of them.
I worked on a show years ago called Without a Trace. James did a short run of episodes for us. He was the most humble and amazing guest star we ever had. He spoke to me at length about his time on Buffy and really made me feel welcomed into his world while he was there. Wonderful Wonderful guy and I wish him all the best in the world. He deserves it.
I loved without a trace!!!! Cool story :)
Hey that show was awesone. Real punch in the face with nostalgia.
I Loved that show.
Isnt it weird they called it "Without a Trace" when all they did was find traces and follow them?
That was a great show, good work
In many ways Spike’s arrival on the show helped it turn into less of a metaphor of just adolescence and into something more complex that reflects becoming an adult: not all the bad is avoidable and if that’s the case, how do you maneuver around it? How do you affect change? How do you adapt?
Seriously, thank god for Spike.
like the director getting pissed off at you for doing your job🤣
@anne-sophieletourneau-hudo9364 ''A metaphor of just adolescence'', it's strange, when I was a kid watching the show, I never picked up on that. I just thought it was someone who disliked horror films depicting a lady always as the victim who runs away. (And he had like a wicked sense of humor.) But watching the show as an adult, seeing the episode with Buffy Spring-Fling white dress. The whole thing just depicts how high school is like hell, and how you have to face your inner demons, and how you leave this hell behind you and slowly transition into adulthood. It's really cool. I have such a newfound esteem that I cherish and treasure forever.
@@requiemheidireprisal7824I like turtles
But it wasn't the original plot.
@@silkandstones5964 I have a question, so Angel NEVER loses his soul to Darla, he maintains it throughout, but he goes dark. The way he snaps out of that phase is something I still don't get to this day. So he sleeps with Darla, and all of a sudden he's good again?
They established back in Buffy's 17th-birthday that he goes evil after sex. But he bounces back after hitting rock bottom somehow by sleeping with Darla?
(And they create Connor who is hands down the worst character ever written in all of the Buffy-verse. Man was he annoying.)
As an English person, he fooled me into thinking he was English. Like the accent was so convincing it’s weird to see him speaking in his normal accent 😂
What is he then?
@@coops1992 he's American......
Nah, alexis denisof fooled me.
I hear this all the time from actors from england
He fooled me until in one episode he said "poof" and pronounced it like a grannies foot rest thing.
They definitely made the right call to keep Spike on. He was one of the best and interesting characters of the series!! And love James as an actor, very talented and well-respected person.
Season 3 onwards spike >>>> season 2 spike. There's a reason the "big bad" was angelus. They took a gamble. We're all IMMENSELY happy it paid off, -1 scene in season 6 that i prefer to repress
Best character development ever!!!!
I loved spikes character so glad they kept him around!!!
He is also the voice of Harry Desden in the audiobooks :p
I bet he extremely regrets DragonBall evolution
The funny thing is that Spike DID represent those exact things for Buffy in a way that Angel never could had he stayed on the show. Spike represented all the bad things like peer pressure, addiction, temptation, corruption, weakness, lust and passion SO well... and it was an incredible pay-off that he basically earns his own redemption and then sacrifices himself for love and the greater good.
I think Joss may have been a bit of a brat there - not realizing that it was in fact a better thing he'd stumbled onto... (imho)
I think he did finally realize that. Eventually he accepted his reality and said “well, I’m stuck with this. So how can I use it?” And look at what he was able to do with season 6. Sometimes geniuses are so focused on what they want that they don’t look around and see the other possibilities. Normally I hate when a network interferes with a show, but they were right on the money with that one
I really felt as though the end of season 5 was the perfect ending for all the characters. Spike had become somewhat good without a soul, which made his story much more compelling than Angels
Angel is such a shit character. Was good when they finally got rid of him. Spike is a better version, definitely
@@darkydoom agreed! I almost quit watching because I was so sick of the insipid Angel story line. The best part of the graduation was watching him disappear.
@@darkydoom could not stand the buffy angel arc, he was so corny to me it was kinda cringe to watch 😭
Spike was just too charismatic not to be a winner. The scene where he meets Buffy's mum for the second time. 'Have we met?' 'One time you hit me with an axe'. ...And they eventually bond over the soap opera, James Marsters had me DYING!!!
The charisma that oozes off of Spike and makes his interactions with other characters so much more meaningful. Like Buffy's Mum and Dawn.
Totally disagree. He was corny then and he seems like a big wuss now.
That Passions scene is one of the funniest in the whole series.
@@tictacterminator bet you won't fight him even if i give you 5-1 odds no limit
The minute James stepped in front of the camera we were captivated. There was simply no way the fans could let that brilliance fade away after a couple of episodes.
I wish Sunday was at least made a main villain as well. It would have been more interestinf than Adam.
Of all of the cast members that with a little CGI, could still get away with playing an ageless vampire James as Spike would probably be the one. His appearance has barely changed over 2 decades! And hell he was good! But I still think that as a metaphor he could have been kept in that adolescent overcoming the problems of being an adolescent, because who hasn't had a teenage crush on someone charismatic and a bad boy?
Spike staying on the show beyond Season 2 and Season 3 wasn't the problem. But the push to make him a romantic lead or anti-hero didn't work. Whedon should have written him more like Crowley on Supernatural who helps the heroes for his own selfish reasons and thus a weird kind of frenemy dynamic can grow from the fact while he was often the big bad the heroes are just as likely to need to team up with him when an even worse threat emerges
He's awesome nararating The Dresden Files books.
I recently rewatched both Buffy and Angel series and the best character was Spike for sure.
Such irony then how the arch of spike...and his redemption into a good guy...was one of the greatest overcoming evil of the whole series
Like James said, “he worked it out”
Soulless Spike cannot redeem himself, because he's not capable of remorse and regret. Souled Spike doesn't need redemption, because he's not responsible for wat soulless Spike did.
So either way, redemption is off the table.
@@YourCreepyUncle. I don't completely agree. I take a more nuanced view. I always found it interesting that Angel was ensouled as a result of a curse enacted on him as punishment. Spike was ensouled at his own request. So, even soulless Spike was aware that he lacked something important and took affirmative steps to acquire the soul he was missing. Granted, soulless Spike's reasons for getting his soul back were selfish, but the act stands on its own and redeemed him by giving his soul back, although soulless Spike would never think he needed to be redeemed. Souled Spike suffered an agony of guilt, but his sacrifice in "Chosen" was the act that redeemed him in his own mind.
@@frutrace What you said didn't necessarily dismiss the idea that redemption is off the table. His reasons were selfish, like you said. The souled version's guilt is also somewhat misplaced. The soul in the show isn't just the desire to feel empathy, but the ability to feel it. That makes a huge difference.
@@mikesannitti6042 I have always wondered at the proper assignment of guilt for ensouled vampires on Buffy. The mythology says when you are turned, you die, your soul goes on to wherever souls go, and a demon inhabits your body with all your memories. It is literally a different entity that assumes your identity, but with a complete lack of conscience and an inborn malice to cause as much suffering for humanity as possible.
So what does it mean when the vampire gets ensouled? Is it conjured from thin air? Is the soul of the original person ripped from it's eternal rest and returned? Is the vampire just given a conscience and the veil ripped from it's eyes so that it fully comprehends the evil it has done?
The answer to this question matters. If it's the first or the last, then yes Spike & Angel are fully responsible for all the evil they did. Perhaps a measure of grace could be extended to them for being literally incapable of feeling guilt & remorse, as one might do with a psychopath should we ever find a cure for psychopathy. But Spike & Angel are still the entities who did those things while wearing the stolen flesh of another being.
But if it's the second, then no. How can a person be morally responsible for the evil done by another being who stole their identity? They are the victim, not the perpetrator. And yet, cruelly, they still have the memory of having done all these evil things.
Alas, as far as I can tell, the show's answer to this question is murky. Angel's journey tries to have it both ways. On the one hand, he takes responsibility for all the evil he has done and works to atone for it with the hope that one day he will earn his reward and regain his humanity. This suggests that the vampire and the soul are a single being.
And yet he speaks of his darkness like a demon inside himself, as if it were a separate being he is constantly fighting to keep under control rather than acknowledging that the demon *is* him.
Angelus is similarly murky. Whenever Angel temporarily loses his soul, Angelus surfaces and the show characterizes it as him being unshackled from the chains of morality and remorse, utterly disgusted by the "debasement" he was forced to endure. This suggests that Angel & Angelus are the same entity,
And yet the show treats Angel & Angelus as two separate entities, as does the entire Scooby gang. With the exception of Xander whose opinion of Angel as culpable for all the evil he has done is constantly depicted as wrong and prejudiced, fueled by jealousy.
So anyway, that's a long winded way to say the Buffyverse tried to have it's cake and eat it too. I think the writers went with whatever would ratchet up the drama and the angst in the moment, but it came at the cost of weakening the vampire's power to address the themes of guilt and responsibility that were so prevalent thought-out the show's run.
I love how he explains that HIS experience of Joss was different without dismissing everyone elses.
This 💯! People can have varying experiences with people. Abusers especially aren’t abusive to everyone. It’s part of their game
Because he had ANY bad experience like MANY of them. Please ask the writers. PLEASE. They will "validate" and other things because they are afraid of bullies like almost everyone on this thread (who cancel people WITHOUT knowing the facts) but they KNOW who were the divas.
He's not allowed to. If he were to say yeah, Joss was ridiculously intense but those other people were giant pussies that cried anytime someone yelled at them, he would be vilified and cancelled. That's the society that we now live in.
@@alexh8613 okay dude.
Josh Whedon was abusive towards him, but of course he wasn't a pregnant woman, so yes his experience is going to be different. However, in any other industry, a boss grabbing somebody, shoving that person against the wall whilst berating them would be completely unacceptable.
While I understand the whole "overcoming bad things as an adolescent" angle, having Spike continue in the show makes more sense because more often than not those things continue to follow you even into adulthood. The fact that Spike was more honest about things, where everyone else was in denial or trying to sugarcoat it, was refreshing. Plus, I like to think Spike eventually joining the good guys is similar to making peace with your faults/past.
Yeah, I mean, Spike had a good redemption arc and Marsten was great at selling that gradual change. It bothers me that it was okay for the show's creator and head writer to be an utter dick to everyone, especially the women in the cast, in real life as a way to blow off his stress, yet it's going too far to show an abusive male character onscreen slowly learning not to be abusive. I think Whedon was really telling on himself there.
That's actually a great analysis!
I didn't even see this comment until after my husband and I were talking and said the same thing! Haha Love that this was said here.
Wow, yes! So so true
My favorite line in the whole series is by Spike. "I may be love's batch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it."
For years I genuinely thought James was British. Had no clue whatsoever that it was a fake accent. Didn’t find out about it being fake until like 4 years ago. I’m still not used to hearing him without the accent lol.
He reads for the Dresden Files audiobooks by Jim Butcher. He’s fantastic in them but you get used to his normal speaking voice pretty quickly
He's not British!!!!
When he played Brainiac later on Smallville I said to my brother "Spike"s American accent isn't very good." Later on I found out dude was from texas and felt like a dummy
@@jagmaida5074 Ahaha lol. That’s great! Don’t feel bad though. His British accent is very good, and the first time I heard him talk without it, I thought his American accent was the fake one. Not because I thought it was bad though, I had just heard him talk with the British accent for so long. I’m talking multiple seasons of Buffy and a few of Angel.
@Jed Price Kind of the point. Spike is a one episode bad guy from The Bill.
I always felt that spike was one of the most self aware, he knew what he was, his role, and understood humanity better then most. He was a great role.
That might have been due to the fact that he was older than most of the other cast members.
I feel like Spike is a great representation of integrating one's shadow rather than pretending it's not there anymore.
100% He also was a poet and had a lot of soul as person with and without his own soul.
This. Spot on. Spike always knew exactly who he was and didn't hide or run from it. Even if who he was, was an evil sadistic bastard, he embraced that.
@@ElaAusDemTal for real! I had no idea he was that much older, and he STILL looks amazing!
I love the fact that Spike was supposed to be killed off but became the hero of the finale. I loved Spike.
ikr? Wasnt' that so cool? I wish that could happen to more of my fav characters on other shows.
@@lessismore8533 jessy was meant to die in season 1 of breaking bad
@@Generalindifference Klaus Mikaelson was meant to die in TVD
@@garytaylor8616 Klaus was meant to die?! No fricking way. I rate the originals massively over tvd. Klaus is EVERYTHING! and this is why I'm single 😂😂
The FINALE was epic... Spike made me cry with his final line of the series. The visuals too, it was great. 😭
You know what…I love him as an actor & person-no matter what the accent. I was going through a tough spot & my daughter ran into him at a ComicCon. After she took her pic she asked if he would please record a brief message for her mom who’s not feeling well & that she’d happily pay extra. He smiled, asked for her phone & my name & recorded me an almost 2 minute message. That’s longer than many people spend taking their pictures with him.
It was quite the surprise & makes me smile to this day. I was so touched & you best believe I’ve backed it up onto a thumb drive in case the cloud ever explodes or I lose my phone.
Spike is one of TV's greatest stand out characters. He really injected a fresh boost into the series and definitely got us through the Riley episodes each week. 😅
Riley was soooo 😴😴😴😴😴😴
Riley was ok, until he wasn't. Did he take drugs? I don't remember....
@@BarrySlisk The Initiative drugged all of the soldiers to make them stronger and eventually caused Riley some health problems. There was also the relationship problems he and Buffy had during season 5.
I liked Riley. I dont understand the hatred. He was actually good for Buffy. But she was the slayer and shut him out. Causing him to spiral. I've done the bad boy thing. Over it. Give me a boring good Ole boy like Riley any day.
@@BarrySlisk He did, umm.. getting bitten by vampire prostitutes... which was as close as the network could get to him doing drugs without him actually doing drugs. Bad storyline for a worse character.
James *earned* his role as Spike and played the hell out of it. I wasn't too crazy about the Spike/Buffy romance, but acting-wise he never broke stride. I kind of wish he'd transferred to the "Angel" cast earlier.
true, he fit naturally in there since Angel was more adult material
I hated the Buffy/Spike romance, but not because of the hero-falling-for-the-villain angle, although I wasn’t crazy about that aspect either. But I hated the Buffy/Spike thing because it completely changed her character. For lack of a better word, she became a slut, and that was entirely off-putting. I get that the plot-point was that she came back from Hell lacking a soul and feeling completely empty inside, but her constantly having sex with Spike made it like every single other teen CW show. And I can’t stand those shows.
I live on Hollywood North. Bullshit liberal ideas of what you see in america aside bleeding hearts n shit. Canadians are a diffrent mix of conservatives and liberals then you. With that in mind. All I hear about all of Hollywood is idiot major actors and directors. Talking insane 1% about how much money they make. I know tons and tons of people in all trades. In the movie industry up here who think the old days were sick. Smallville included these guys mean well with out question
Just fucking sick. Like you can't fucking look actors in the eye as extras or you're fired
I know set designers extras fuck I know chick's who did horror deaths. Fx guys set design They all say the same shit as these boys
I was friends with James back in late 80s when he was just starting out in Chicago. One of the nicest, sweetest guys you could meet. He stole every one of the productions he was in. He made my 20th birthday one of the best I have ever had--what I remember of it.
Yall went to bone town
@@Nvlutey27 : JC mate. That's some Junior High craic, right there.
@@Nvlutey27😂
It's always great to hear that someone you like and admire as an actor in a series/movie is actually a cool guy in real life. I met David Boreanz (Angel) once and he was a dick.
I got to meet James when I worked at a coffee shop and he truly couldn’t have been a nicer guy. So polite and down to earth. It was really an awesome experience.
James Marsters made Spike into one of the best villains/anti-heroes of television history. And Marsters is a class act being interviewed by the best Lex Luthor ever in Michael Rosenbaum.
Lex and Spike..2 amazing characters!
And James Marsters was on Smallville too!
Best villain I. History huh? You need to either leave your cave more, or a lot less. Either way, you are sadly wrong.
James was also Brainiac in Smallville. He is also the narrator to the NY TIMES best selling author Jim Butcher Harry Dresden urban fantasy books
Marsten is drop-dead gorgeous, which helped. Charismatic as all shit, and that also helped. But he is also a massively underrated actor, who always played Spike as someone who was dealing with secret pain and insecurities and hiding them in boast and bluster, and that was probably what snatched the heart of the audience.
And his comical timing --impeccable!
Yes! You said it perfectly 💯
Shame that's not his name eh?
@@mydogeatspuke Lol you’re right.
And bring humble, empathetic, and intelligent makes you even more beautiful ;)
he really mastered that role, god tier
The thing about all of the news about Joss that came out the last few months that amazed me is that every single cast member has come out in support of each other, without fail. It makes me like Buffy more, because I know all the people I'm seeing on screen are great humans who are supporting each other, even if the man behind the camera is less than supportive.
It is good they came out but what is disturbing as always is people wait years to say something. Collectively if they would have done this when it happened, that would have sent a huge message. Change can and will never happen as long as people sit back years silent and then come out years later to pile on. Maybe Joss would have got minor help and he wouldn't have got outrageously bad it this is true. But the same thing happens time and time again people refuse to say something and come together in that moment which would have made the difference. Joss is now a multi millionaire and will not be punished if this is true. So what was the point of this? Just to ride some hash tag and say me too and I stand with you.
yea but half of them say they did not see anythign, spike talk about one bad time and that it, giles said he did nto see anything.
@@stevemyopinion423 yeah technically sarah didnt say anything or alyson..seth ..david..amy ..eliza etc..they support charisma but they didn't say anything about joss
I think one thing that gets lost is that Buffy was his first show. So when Charisma Carpenter got pregnant and suddenly... surprise! Costume budget goes up and you have to use body doubles or rethink entire scenes. All that in an episodic show where everything has to be carefully planned out.
It is also interesting how actor chemistry factors in. Another example is Arya and The Hound in Game of Thrones. In the book, the only reason Sandor doesn't rape her is because he's trying to turn her in to a Stark supporter to join their side. It's on his mind and very much not beneath him because he's a horrible person throughout. Arya only takes him off her "list" due to Stockholm Syndrome. So it makes complete sense when he appears to be mortally wounded that she would not offer him any kind of mercy. In the show the actors had great chemistry and people saw a surrogate father/daughter relationship. So the story beat where she leaves him to die seemingly comes out of nowhere.
@@stevemyopinion423 A lot said they didn't see anything specific, but that they completely believe Charisma, and they talk about how with Michelle Tracktenburg (spelling bad), who played Dawn, there was some incident and then an on-set rule that they wouldn't let her be with Joss alone. I think just because his intensity that Spike especially talked about would be a lot for Michelle, considering she was just a kid at the time.
I think that what people loved about spike wasn't that he was evil, but rather that he represented *frustrated* evil. _Every_ brilliant plan that Spike came up with died a horrible death, and he always showed that frustration *brilliantly* .
He was tge Wylie Coyote of the show.
He wasn't evil . But frustrated evil . Evil is evil . Just like I could be late but still good.
@@SoulJAHJustICE yeah... but Spike _eventually_ actually became good.
@Stephen Samuel that WOULD be called redemption .
You and I , are simply on the subject of ... evil .
So Spike wasn't evil ... he was simply " frustrated evil " ?
What you meant to type was people don't care for him for the fact that he's evil , or was , but for the fact he has REDEEMABLE qualities. Same as any anti - hero lest they be a straight up villain.
Evil is evil . Good is good . Neither is ever perfect , only what they are and in that , they can become the upmost representation of said energy ... i.e. good or bad.
@@SoulJAHJustICE He started out as excellent comic relief. As he stayed, because of his popularity, they eventually needed a redemption arc to justify not killing him off.
James is a very charismatic and charming person and talented actor . He played his role perfectly endowing the character with a certain charm.
@Mary Sue Dating Agency what do you mean it's cut from other videos? It's part of a conversation on a recent podcast episode
Who did he stab in the back? And are you referring to the actor or character? And to the original comment- FULLY AGREE!
@Mary Sue Dating Agency Here we are talking about actor James Marsters and his work and not about the series and its director.
He's a good actor, yes, and I continue to enjoy his work, but he was not so charming when I met him. This was right after Buffy ended and he was about to be on Angel, at DragonCon in Atlanta. During both the autograph signing as well as the Q&A panel with his band, he just seemed annoyed to be there. Folks got short, snippy responses and even a few eyerolls.
I'm going to give him the good grace of assuming that I had the misfortune of encountering him as he was having a bad day. It happens. I will say that at least my experience with everyone else there was lovely, and it's rare that I have a bad experience with a celebrity at one of those things.
Marsters really seems like a class act. Fair, balanced, rational, able to see multiple perspectives while absolutely not in any way denying the realities of what, for example, Carpenter endured.
Also, I'd argue Spike's redemption arc works perfectly into the theme of growing up and adolescence. I'd argue a part of growing up is realizing "evil" is mostly a matter of perspective. Evil people see themselves as good people. And they see you as evil. There are very few Skeletors in the world, that revel in "being evil". And people can, and will, change - given the right circumstances. So treating Spike as someone whose perspective mattered, and who was able to change and break free from his (self)destructive cycle… That was great.
I absolutely love it when shows like Supernatural humanize their "evil" characters. You may dislike them, you may think they're in the wrong, but it's always possible to see their point after a while. They're… "human". And this is how we should see eachother. I don't think my political opponents are Skeletor. They're not wringing their hands, trying to find ways to make the world worse. No - they're trying to make the world better. We just disagree on what "better" means. And there's always hope that I or someone else will be able to persuade them to change their minds. (Almost) noone is truly lost forever.
@@InfinitePublics I'm rewatching Buffy & Angel right now (following along w/ Alleybox, who's watching for the first time). And I'm warming to Angel more and more. I used to dislike him, but now I just feel like he had a different function. Angel was the First Boyfriend type of experience, and embodied that very well. Then we got some nyance and complications in that portrayal, and especially in Angel his "dark and brooding" persona is shown to be mostly just a front. Just like most people, he has is ups and downs, stuff he's good at and stuff - like socializing - he's pretty bad at and tries to cover up. Angel didn't have quite as interesting an arc as Spike, but I feel like his arc, too, was "worth it".
Also, I'm kind of happy Buffy ends up boyfriendless at the end of the show(s). She doesn't need a man to be complete or her own person. If she finds someone that's good for her and works out, that's great. But being in a relationship isn't the most important thing in the world. It's completely possible to have a fulfilling life and never having a partner or a family. I feel like some people attach too much significance on romantic relationships.
Spike's arc was much more complicated than people accept. Spike, whilst soulless, managed to do good things for the right reasons, he displayed loyalty and love in a way no other vampire did. But he was still soulless, so there were things he'd do that people judged him for that they didn't judge Drucilla or Angel for. Even though he was better than both of them, still capable of good, even without a soul.
@@InfinitePublics I completely agree with you on both comments you made. Spike is a very complex character canon wise, he is the bad guy for the beginning of his existence. But he always had more of a heart and motivation than Angel ever did.
Like Angel became obsessed with and "became a good person" for a 15 year old (he originally sees Buffy before she gets to Sunnydale and in that scene from context clues I believe she's 15) he treats her like a child through a lot of their interactions and relationship; despite the fact he also tries to get her to do a lot of difficult things and to make really harsh decisions. He isn't healthy for Buffy at all and he sets the view of a lot of the characters and how they see Vampires and demons in general.
He sets characters unwillingness to see that Spike could at all be doing good for Buffy, and even Dawn's, sake just because he cares about them. Because Xander (for a good example) has seen what Angel is willing to do and why, along with who he is, the monster he is without his soul. Angel/Angelus is the template cookie cutter version of "the best and worst" a vampire could possibly be. Even though there are much better examples of both.
It causes Xander to be unwilling to see any demon as good especially Spike without a soul. Thus ruining any chances with Anya and any connection with other demons both good and bad. And yet by the end of the series even with the soul Xander and a lot of the other characters are too hardend and angry to accept Spike could ever change even though they themselves (like Willow) get a second chance, just because they are human.
Spike set the stage for a chance in the show to prove that even if you're human you're not on a pedestal over all demons and other beings just because you're human and have a soul. It could have dug deep into other dimensions and beings and proven than change is both possible and inevitable when you live for a very long time like Buffy seems to be in for as a Slayer or Spike or hell even Anya. That you can be better than others of your species.
How they did Anya's character always bugged me because she's this millenium old "was human then a demon and back again" who evolves into a good person and cares for people. But by the end they just kick her out of the show and tie it down as "she was only in it for Xander and now she's back as a jealous demon" coulda been a lot more to that but whatever.
The show could have evolved in a lot of ways to show who you are depends entirely on who you want to be in the end. Like with Dawn, she's not entirely human, she's a key and yet look at how she's changed while BEING a human AND being treated like one. Could have definitely kept with the theme of growing up Yaknow?
If Buffy was about growing up, then Angel was about adulthood
I agree with the general consensus that
James playing Spike as he did was one of the best casting moves ever. He bought that quick thinking dry wit to the show every time (especially as the writing was so funny- a dramedy although that term hadn't been an official genre back then, and bought a depth to the character. In one way he WAS OR BECAME the epitome of a character overcoming evil, because I do believe he actually did love Buffy. The attempted assault after they became physically together was a real turning point both plot and character wise. Plot-in that when he left after that and the anger, suggested a revenge / evil plot so when he went to reclaim his soul to be worthy of her not just for the sex but the wanting to be a better person for her in every way was such a beautiful surprise and as the one to sacrifice himself at the end and acceptance hit me hard anyway. And, it was one of a handful of shows that defined the time it was written in. It was a favourite show of mine and I was obsessed with it. And let's just say it-damn he was sexy as hell!
This guy’s English accent was exceptional in it’s execution. Us Brits can usually spot a fake English accent, but Spike’s was very convincing even to us!
Oh god, no it wasn't. It got better, and the character was great, but the accent was awful.
Wife and I always laugh at the scene of spike, "pretending" to have an American accent... "oh I'm a friend of Xanders here"
It was crap in the earlier series'.
Yeah it was a bit confusing at first. Juliet Landau sounded really fake, so it made me question Spike too. I thought he was Canadian. But when Drusilla was gone his British accent seemed more convincing, and I just assumed it would be silly to employ an American to play a British person when you could get a British person like Anthony Head. Of course, I never knew he was only intended to be in a few episodes of one season.
@@garrick3727 I do agree with you about Drucilla sounding fake. Buffy also highlights to American audiences the cockney dialect isn't the only type of English accent! Thanks Giles and Ethan Rayne for your received pronounciation!
Spike's cross over to Angel was awesome as well. It really upped the show in the last season.
Wheadon: you're dead, DEAD!
Masters: well actually i consider myself undead😶
heard this in his british accent lol 😆
Met Marsters at a convention a couple of years ago. Such a class act, so humble despite being so popular and having a HUGE line for photos and autographs.
Same, he was the nicest guy ever
Spike was punk rock. We loved him for that. The scene when he drives off to Sid Vicious singing My Way … Priceless!
Spike added a new dynamic to the series that was starting to stagnate. To his credit Joss rose to the challenge and wrote a redemption of evil arc that gave us one of the most memorable villains in fiction.
You definitely watched a different show
He take some decisions, but he was working mostly in Angel and Firefly.
@@guyverxx 142 people agreed to that comment and 5 for your reply seems like you are the one who watched a different show
When Spike arrived on the show he took it to another level. Some of my favorite episodes were with him in them.
Isn't it nice when you watch an interview with someone you like and it turns out that they are as nice - and cool - as you hope they would be? :)
No.
James marsters also voices "the Dresden files" book series on audible and he does a more than fantastic job!
He does very well in not answering the questions about if he saw anything on set
I lived in New Orleans for a long time and in my line of work meetings of famous people. I agree with you totally!! Brad Paisley was the most nice, respectful and absolutely the coolest I met out of 100s of famous people. He came to my gym that I ran and worked out when he opened for George strait and nobody even recognized him but me because I was at his concert video before. My girlfriend was at that concert that night and still there with George strait at the end and he calls her on her cell phone saying he wish he could have met her because I was a nice guy and he wanted to do something cool for me since I let him work out for free!! She did not answer because she was at the concert and did not hear the voicemail until about 30 minutes later. When I tell you that made that girls year I am not exaggerating for one second. He did it just be a nice guy and it worked let's just say it made me more browning points than you could ever imagine!! He was nice enough to take pictures with me and my crew and leave me probably $2,000 worth of signed t-shirts and CDs and I didn't even ask! He asked me to begin with how I knew what he looked like and why I wasn't at the concert and I said my girlfriend is there with her other boyfriend! He laughs sits down at my desk and says I got to hear the story so I told him! One of the coolest nicest guys I think you'd ever have the possibility of meeting cuz he took the time out of his night to make my millennium and to make a girl he didn't even know smile! The only other celebrity I have that I seen something to even close to that was Faith Hill but I was not up on personal with her. And her concert there was a girl there was 8 years old and dying from cancer. If they'll stop the concert in the middle of a song and made sure that girl got to come back and talk to her. It was and her last wish from the Make-A-Wish foundation to go to her concert!! When I saw her do that and meaning what she was doing I did not care if they canceled the concert as long as that little girl got to go see Faith Hill!
On the next end I met rock stars Playboy models pornstars movie stars and all kinds of crazy stuff and most of them are just not even worth a bullet if you want to be honest. But a lot of the ones a lot of people are down on were nice as hell. I work in strip clubs and security for over 20 years. My job at one of them was to look over and watch out for the porn stars that were touring! You think a lot of those would be really nasty people but I'm telling you not one of them was mean to me at all. They treated me more than well a few of them if you know what I mean and always tell me well and we're more polite than your average person by far!! They might not be that way to everybody because I'm a 250 lb bodybuilder with blonde hair and blue eyes so yeah I probably got treated a little nicer than most but I did not expect anybody in that profession to be as courteous as they all were even the guys that came through with the girls! I even got body checked One Time by Henry Winkler the fonz!! I couldn't believe how short he was and he ran into me and had the nerve to give me a dirty look but it was Mardi gras. I didn't see who it was initially and I was ready to yell at somebody for not looking where they were going and I shut my mouth because I was surprised to see it with him!! He kind of walked off after giving me it already looked because well he was so small it was like getting a brick wall when he ran into me LOL. My girlfriend at the time did not even really believe me because it was Mardi gras and you couldn't see through the crowd to show her!!
I always wanted to meet the cast of fluffy's vampire Slayer and I met a few of them in parties in Louisiana especially at the ones that Anne Rice through but I never got to meet James or Buffy herself!
Out of all of them the biggest dick I met was the lead singer of motley Crue. For some reason he didn't think he had to pay for drinks and he was wrong. It was past the year 2000 and I wasn't a starry eyed teenage girl. I don't know why the hell he thought he was going to drink for free in a club like mine when nobody there even recognized him!! Well I did but I used to be in metalhead in the 80s in the '90s. When I wish I would have met was another one in Buffy which was charisma Carpenter!! Now that will make my day at the time! I used to run strip clubs down there and the girl I ended up being with was the most famous one down there and she kind of looked like charisma Carpenter but honestly hotter but I bet your Christmas Carpenter was 10 times nicer! Plus she still looks good and my ex got fat LOL. Serves her right to see the least. She got famous because she was the most famous dancer down there or when we were there and it really just made her into a famous whore the way she handled it she wasn't here as cool as she thought she was!
One thing I always was curious about though is I used to be when I was down there at competitive 250 lb blonde hair blue eye Bodybuilder!!! Honestly a good looking guy and I wonder if they would have all been so nice to me if I was just a normal looking guy back then? I used to be a fat kid so I'm not one of those arrogant bodybuilder types that everybody hates. I can stereotype like that until you know me though. I wonder if all those Stars would have been half as nice to me if I looked normal! I can guarantee you Brad Paisley still would have.
Surely you mean to say that he comes across as nice and cool, or that he seems to be nice and cool. You cannot possibly know or say that he is in fact those things by watching a brief interview.
Joss sound like he’s got anger problems. Why would he throw his actor against the wall because he had fans from the show? It makes absolutely no sense. The guy is just doing his job, not protesting being killed off or anything.
Anger, control… a bunch of stuff. There is a possibility of a bit of the George Lucas effect too, where nobody challenged him and he basically got away with whatever.
the event being described here happened over twenty years ago, so bear that in mind when commenting on it.
@@sirmoonslosthismind nah he got fired from something recently for the same types of things
Well, when one's Mentor is Rossanne Barr, having seen how she handled things and got away with them at least in the Nineties, I can see how Joss Whedon would use those similar type of tactics in his own shows.
@@WSK9002 i forgot he worked on Roseanne. Too bad John Goodman couldn't have been his mentor
The confusing element of Spike being a legitimately older and bad guy and yet him and Buffy having this odd chemistry, and afterwards her pushing him away and him being left to deal with it was one of the more realistic things I took from this show. Girls are vulnerable to falling for the wrong guy, and guys are vulnerable to having their hearts broken. It's confusing, it's exciting, it's bad for both and you need to learn from it. If that didn't sum up my teenage years then nothing did.
As much as I agree with you there is one thing Spike does that I really struggled with and that's the scene that was almost a r@pe. It was way too obvious what was happening and yeah it triggered me more than I'd like.
Spike trying to bite Willow that time was just a rip off the old ED line...we can try again later if you'd like. "This doesn't happen with me"
@@michellemelville8979 That "ED line" was so hilarious! I still remember how I was not expecting it and I doubled up laughing.
@@L-K-Jellyfishsame. But I knew exactly what it was a piss-take of.
@@michellemelville8979 I think that was to drive in the point that Spike, for all his character development and love for Buffy he was inherently a broken man. Both us the viewers and him, the character, getting that final point driven through was what also made him realise that he had to finally come to terms with that and him fighting to get a soul can be seen as a broken and out of control man finally going to therapy and slowly starting to get his act togheter.
But yeah, i do get the struggle with that scene, it is in no way good...
@hamsterminator • "Guys are vulnerable to getting their hearts broken." Maybe Taylor Swift was right when she wrote, "Boys only want love if it's torture." Spike certainly fit that bill with Drusilla then Buffy.
James seems like a very fair-minded guy.
Which, as we’ve seen with the Joss Whedon case especially, is not common in Hollywood anymore.
@@spencerwillock You try to be fair minded,the cancel culture mob comes for you.Sadly,thats why many celebs just throw their colleagues under the bus.James masters is courageous.
@@spencerwillock Oh, they're just shitting on Whedon at the moment because he's no longer directing mega-successful Marvel sequels.
James is lovely. When I met him he was so fucking sweet I almost threw up.
@@girlywench I'm sure he felt the same way...
I always loved Spike more than Angel. I don't really like the mopey brooding hero trope (I loved Damon over Stefan). I thought it was much more heroic that Spike was able to love even without a soul, and he fought to regain his soul instead of being cursed. Angel was a total Chad as a human, a self preserving narcissist as a vampire, and a whiny little bitch when he was cursed with a soul. Team Spike all the way!
Damn agreed! Damon over Stefan. Spike over Angel.
Do you honestly think anyone except you cares about what you have to say?
Spike tried to rape Buffy and while his character was fun to watch, I never shipped him with Buffy.
Damon is the epitome of mediocre white male privilege, he’s nowhere as near interesting. 😒
Amen! All the way. As a teen though I did feel torn between Angel and Spike. The sad thing is I was with an older emotionally abusive guy who Angel reminded me of.....so Buffy romanticized that for me in a bad way. Buffy respected herself more with pushing away Spike but then of course went through her weird dark period.....but Spike seemed to always be more committed to her also in the end. Angel's reasons to leave were also pathetic IMO. Wonderful show. I still watch an episode or two from time to time. But I do think teens shouldn't be watching that type of show without someone more mature and responsible there to talk then through it all. Especially if they are already a "troubled" teen. Lol
@@pisceswaterfaerie82 I don't get why anyone likes Stefan. At all. His personality was meh imo if not downright creepy (less creepy as a ripper lmao) and he uggo. Haha I feel bad saying it but that's how I feel. Damon is.....*muah* 💋 🤌
I loved James on Buffy, he was amazing!! His character was at times dark, at times funny and at times sarcastic - he brought all this into it and made himself indispensable x
above all he was honest. He called people out on their BS and shook thinks up.
@@Hexmark - exactly, one of the many reasons I loved his character. He spoke his mind and if people didn't like it, well tough - brilliant x
My favorite scenes with him are....
Him & Joyce having a conversation!! "You came at me with an axe telling me to stay away from my daughter!!"
Or when he would describe when Dru went on her own "little trip" & say crazy things.
He always added to the story so much!!
@@gaillynn1280 - exactly, he was so funny, and also very blunt, but that scene when he said that to Joyce - I cried laughing x
James Marsters' reading of The Dresden Files book series is magnificent. The acting he is doing with just his voice where he is playing every character in the books is extraordinary. I really like The Dresden Files. I absolutely love James Marsters reading The Dresden Files.
I didn't know that was a thing. That's awesome.
Wow I had no idea! I really like the show Dresden Files, so I’m definitely going to check out these with Marsters
RIGHT???
My absolute favorite audible book (series). I’ve listened to it so many times!! ♥️
Spike had one of the best character arcs ever… from being the big bad, to eventually saving the world. I wonder what it would’ve been like without him
Twilight
@@lerenard5110 🤣 better than my reply was gonna be
You can kind of tell Marsters has experience in working in theatre where it’s very high stress and people can just explode.
And that's showbiz, kid.👍🏾
Oh definitely. Theater actors have to deal this often apparently.
@@lex_rodriguez I did some tech work for a college production (while a student). And it wasn’t uncommon for those students and lectures to have arguments and randomly throw out breaks just to calm everyone down. This even went on to the back stage people.
Oh wow, I thought it was just my university's theatre department that was stressful. My bad.
@@QuietlyCurious I’ll never forgot
- an actor demanding no one looks at them while they sing I rehearsals
-another demanding their dress be made shorter repeatedly to the costume department until 3 days before the show when they decide it’s now too short
-a lead getting pissed off because the dress rehearsal crowd was enjoying the supporting character more than the lead.
-arguments over who got the leading roles
-constant breaks for smokers
I only worked with them for 2 weeks…..
The thing about abusers is that they are pretty good at figuring out who they can abuse without it either being noticed or believed.
As the guy said he set his standards extremely high and applied those most to himself.
If you go into a job where you are expecting to be paid millions you should expect to have extremely high standards demanded. If you aren't willing to have that level of commitment then community theatre is there, but taking the millions over the years and then once your career is gone to jump on a bandwagon to try to get some publicity is trashy
So believe the ones that says he's guilty and don't believe the ones that said they saw nothing.
@@zaftra Umm, those two aren't mutually incompatible? It's entirely possible for someone to be abused while others don't notice.
@@irrevenant3 I think you both are missing that he's accused of being toxic for being aggressive and screaming at the actors like described here in the video
@@v4vun I'm not clear why you think I'm missing that. Are you saying that Joss screaming at James means there can't be anyone who didn't notice?
What an articulate, well-spoken guy. It's really good to discover the actors behind the characters turn out to be as sharp as you figured them to be....
The morality tale culminating with Spike going through hell to make himself better for Buffy is one of the greatest villain reversal stories in history.
Marsters mentioning Wizards while being the voice of Harry Dresden in the Dresden Files audiobooks makes me quite happy.
He never went to trought hell to make himself better for buffy
After he tried to rape her he went through hell to become how he was because he wanted to kill her,the demon just screwed him over and said he never could complete the trial he needs,and then gave him his soul instead)
I 100% thought he slipped into Dresden talking about wizards! (sometimes not so) Stubtle & quick to anger!
Marsters has also narrated/read the majority of the Harry Dresden novels, fwiw.
I think he is the worst narrator ever - i can't even get through the books. He is suppose to get better but I tapped out after 3
Spike's the Vegeta and Angel's the Piccolo.
It sounds like Whedon wanted to tell an over simplified morality story, and the people wanted and appreciated something deeper. I think what we ended up with is magnificent. It says, to me, we are all capable of being monsters, but we don't have to stay monsters. Spike ends up becoming the real hero of Buffy. Spike ended up becoming a bit of a messianic figure, voluntarily excepting the weight of his sins and becoming a hero.
I think what is closer to the truth is that he wanted to tell a moral story where good wins definitively, but people got tempted by the glam and confidence(because that's how evil persists) and the result is that he had to find compromises where good is on top even though evil persists, much like how reality actually works, and the result is that it winds up being a much more relatable story overall, because he's still struggling to have good ultimately succeed.
@@GreyAcumen I tend to think more that relatability is in the eye of the beholder. I think Whedon successfully told his story where good triumphed over evil, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "definitively". Good ultimately wins, but it does not always win, and especially not without sacrifice. Stories where good and evil are easily identified, are morally simple, and generally for children. That is not to say that adults can not also enjoy morally simplistic stories. Most comic books are excellent examples of this. Fun for all ages. But Buffy was a show for teenagers and adults, and that audience tends to demand a little more moral complexity. And I believe that they demand that moral complexity as it more accurately reflects the good and evil that exists in us all, thus, generally making morally complex stories more relatable to the average adult
Too often producers and writers underestimate their audience and try to make every plot a simple morality story, where good and evil are clearly defined, and good ultimately triumphs. One thing Game of Thrones taught us is that audiences understand that life is actually more complicated than that and that we prefer more nuanced characters.
Considering the time period of when his character was saved from the cutting room floor I'd say the reasoning had little to do with depth, at the time, but I do agree we got a story with much more depth by his continued inclusion in the overall series.
I mean, that's what you got because that's what Joss created. He was telling deep and complex stories from the very start tho. I think Marsden's high audience rating had less to do with fans wanting different storytelling, and more to do with the charming (thanks to Marsden and Landau) Billy Idol/Sid & Nancy thing. The studio made their demand, Joss made it work.
"Lie to Me" was made during this time period and Angel was already a thing, so...I kinda think Marsden is being a tad disingenuous about the kind of stories Joss was writing at this time. He was already starting to touch on the attraction to evil.
After all, with Spike, good did in fact ultimately triumph and Buffy ultimately never deviated from that motif. Buffy ain't Breaking Bad, ya know?
Marsters seems like a fair guy. Very rational and reasonable, able to look at different points of view without unnecessary villainizing or minimizing anyone else's experiences.
Yeah but now everyone in Hollywood is using that "Everyone's had a different experience..." phrase. It's lost it's impact.
@@travis8850 True, I get it though. A lot are trying to push back a little against cancel culture, especially when no serious crimes have been committed, but they don't want to become targets of the mob themselves. It's a ridiculous situation.
I loved the backstory they had of Spike when he was human. It really made you feel for him. Kind of made Spike more sympathetic for me.
i remember this specific story of joss backing james into a wall and also other stories of joss saying 'you're fired' on set. these stories date back years through interviews and even the dvd commentary. but the way it was told, it always seemed like it was done in a light-hearted and joking manner. never in a million years did i think joss was seriously mean-spirited. but it makes sense given the size of his ego that he thinks it is ok to treat people this way. i remember on the dvd commentary of 'cabin in the woods' when drew goddard tells the story of how he was set to direct the movie from the start, but halfway through the writing process (him and joss spent a weekend writing it in a hotel room), joss told him that he wanted to direct it instead, and drew felt crushed by it. in the dvd commentary joss dismisses it and says he doesnt remember ever saying that. clearly he did because drew was expressing how upset he was when joss said that. since joss has all the power, when joss said he wanted it, drew knew he couldn't do anything about it.
I loved Spikes character and Drusilla! They are so talented! That was seriously an amazing show and never can be remade to be better than that! The humor and sarcasm, absolutely one of my favorite shows till this day!
OMG Dru was the scariest out of all of them. I loved her!
@@BloodMoon375 Me too!!
I absolutely hated Dru. I couldn never take her serious. Her character was annoying. Glad she left the show. The actress did a great job but I just didn't like her character.
I agree with you. I loved the Spuffy story ARC but honestly I don't think 2 characters from this series or spin offs had more raw animalistic heat than Spike and Druscilla. The 2 actors have such crazy chemistry it's amazing to watch.
Spike was the ultimate character development. One of the best I’ve ever seen in a tv show. Along side Dwight Schrute
Hm. Have you heard of a show called Breaking Bad xD
Yeah but Breaking Bad was written specifically about his character development.
I think Wesley’s character development was equal to Spike’s. Both superb actors. Both Americans playing Brits that were utterly convincing! 😊
You've obviously never seen "Babylon 5" and its raft of characters taking Shakespearean twists and turns in their character developments.
Yes I have to say the top 4 characters with the most character development were spike,Wesley and Cordelia and faith.
I was in the military when I first saw Buffy.....my friends were watching it and I joked about them watching a girl's show......I watch an episode.....I was hooked. It was the episode Hush. Spike was a great character. He was the Yin while Angel was the Yang.
That is a DAMNED good episode to get started with. Still one of my faves.
James had by far the best English accent by any foreign actor, ever. I thought this guy was a proper Londoner.
And once again, I am shocked to hear James speak without a British accent.
I'm English, and I thought he was English all this time! His accent was spot on!
Right?
I thought his accent was decent but I knew he was American when he first appeared because of an interview. The one that got me was Alexis Denisoff and I was convinced he was British. I saw him later in a UK show called Bugs, where he had an American accent and thought he was putting it on. Turns out that was his real voice.
Spike was THE BEST character in the show! no doubt about it!
Aside from the main character Buffy , I would say Willow and spike were the best and faith should be mentioned in the conversation..
Buffy is the best character on BUFFY the Vampire Slayer.
Anya was the best. She was hysterical.
@@Beelzybud Not even close! Anya and Dawn were the worst and most annoying characters on the show..
I think I liked Zander the best but never really thought about it.
It's funny how Joss didn't like Evil , but was an absolute villain to women on set far too often.
Allegedly…
SO not only do you not believe women but you dont believe children either?@rrwholloway
@@alyxhazlett6183 You shouldn't believe people just because they have XX chromosomes. That's just silly and bizarre. Don't assume that they're automatically lying, but expect some proof. Something to back up the story.
I've never seen any proof of anything regarding Joss Whedon. Sounds like he's an intense perfectionalist that can get carried away, and a person could easily perceive that as abusive, but a person could also easily perceive it the way that James did. Eye of the beholder.
Pushing an actor against the wall and telling him that's he dead because you're frustrated with the character he plays is irrational, and actually assault. So while Marters relates it as not being that big of a deal, it really adds to the idea of Whedon being an angry egomaniac.
Even if Joss Whedon is an egomaniac, so what?
Surely it was as much Whedon’s fault that Spike was popular…weird that he blamed the actor when he decided what the actor did and said..
@@justicedemocrat9357 Because if you're the creator of a TV show, you can't be an egomaniac. You can be strict and firm when needed.
Of course its not the first time Buffy was handed over to someone else who ruined it.
Angry egomaniac? In the film and television industry? No way... lol
When Spike first makes an appearance, he's scary. He brought danger and a sense that Buffy could really be at risk...I loved Spike for the color and dimension he brought to the show. His story arc was pretty sad for awhile, which was the danger in keeping him just to make us happy.
The way they portrayed Spike worked because of James' charisma. Normally, he'd feel like an underwhelming loser but James managed to own almost all his scenes with other characters
Vampire diaries had Damon and Klaus which I feel was inspired by Spike
Yup. I remember being so confused because Spike was the bad guy but… I liked him. His charisma, his humor and eventually depth. I always felt like Angelus should have been more Spikish. By that I mean… a little more edge. You’re a Vampire centuries old. There should be a level of cynicism and an iron shell to go along with the high levels of brooding.
What the Spike character taught me at a young age watching his arc is that everyone has a back story. It also taught me, over time, that while everyone may have a reason for the messed up things that they do, it still doesn’t mean that it’s right and it doesn’t guarantee you the chance for redemption. (Even though Spike got his chance).
Whedon may have hated him but people loved Spike for a reason. I think he was the bad ass that a lot of us wanted to be… without all the blood and bitey bitey of course.
@@GameOn71213 None of them were as ruthless and as passionate as Spike. They were more like, fangirl baits in comparison
Spike was designed to be a villain ... Whedon very very clearly didn't intend for the character to stay around beyond Season 2/Season 3 never mind until the end of the both Buffy/Angel
I was working at the network at the time and even on our side, we had some occasional bits of weirdness with Whedon. I had one run-in with him because I wrote a spec Buffy script during season one and he screamed at me over the phone about it, solely because it existed and I was interested in writing for the series. Ah well, mostly good memories.
oh wow :O
Why is it so often the people who talk about justice and equality and the power of friendship etc whom are the worst?
What the f-? That's literally how it's recommended to people to start out in the business. Sheesh.
@@andredunhos4097 Because they are virtue signaling, i.e. signalling the virtuous they are to the world in an attempt to hide the fact that they are actually horrible people.
@@andredunhos4097 I have an even better question: why everyone was so supportive (including actors) of Joss Whedon before all of this exploded? You rarely hear anything bad about Joss (I didn't even know there were issues on Buffy set until recently) and then bang, everyone is against him.
I loved Spike. One of my favorite moments was when he found out Angel turned good and he say’s “You were my Obi-wan”
Yoda
Wrong Jedi master
You were my sire, man! You were my yoda!
He's the only American who can legit do a English accent I'm from the UK I was shocked when I heard him speak out of character
There’s a lot of them just not a lot of A list ones, and considering UK television isn’t very popular in the states while American television is popular in the UK it makes sense.
It's pretty obvious because his accent was unnatural and doesn't sound like the way anyone speaks. He fooled idiots maybe
Alexis Denisof is pretty good too. See also Sharpe.
Amazing that James Marsters had such charisma, he was able to transform the show by pushing Joss to be more and more creative with his character. Such a cool story.
Agreed. As James says, here, it's your football, giving Joss that opportunity to move the goal posts made a character that grew and grew. We loved Spike all through out both series, because of this. I don't know any other actor that could've done it though.
I've always loved how sweet and kind James is to fans. Truly a guy with integrity. ❣
Please stop interrupting your guests. 😅
I know right!
No
Now that you've said it, i cant concentrate on the rest! 😄
I wanted to hear Marsters answer, but halvway through I had to stop due to the interviewer's love to hearing his own voice.
These guys need to go back and watch how interviews were done 40 years ago and learn
Several friends and I have just watched all of Buffy again and I forgot A) how much I loved it B) how incredible Spike was as a character and how much of an incredible arc he had. Spike and Willow are my favourites for sure.
Spike & Willow all the way 🤗 mine too
Absolutely! Spike was my favorite character in the show! Hands down! He had the best lines... the writing was absolutely perfect. It went the way it was supposed to, and honestly it MADE the show. Every person in that cast was a necessary piece of the puzzle, each one was needed. It became magic, and that's why we are still talking about it to this day, and why there are new fans of the show year after year.
Yes Spike is the best! Even when he was a villian he became popular because many saw his potential and growth
I'm so happy they kept Spike in the show. In my opinion, he made the whole show. Me (like everyone else apparently!) were instantly captivated by him from his very first scene. His arc in the series was amazing! Also, *Spuffy* forever.
yaaaass! Spuffy thanks
God, I love James Marsters' interviews. He's SUCH a deep thinker and articulates so well. Amazing actor and man.
Spike is the most charming and likeable villain ever. Some of the things he said and did on the show was pure gold.
Whedon: "This is the baddie."
Audience: "We like him."
Whedon: "No! He's the baddie!"
Audience: "People are complex and capable of change."
I'm Team Audience here.
Joss: *Shocked Pikachu face*
Yea same here. The whole "evil is evil is evil it must be beaten" is such...junior high levels of media.
People ARE complex and capable of change. But kind of definitionally, monsters aren't.
Even beyond the complex and capable of change, which was done incredibly in Spikes story arc, evil characters can still be "cool" without saying evil is good. Darth Vader was thought of as "cool" even before the father thing was added and a redemption. Angelus is even thought of as being pretty cool, and he was pretty much the most evil in personality. Spike and Dru were written as cool characters even before the audience rallied to keep Spike around. So the problem wasn't really so much that "Evil isn't supposed to be cool" but more that he wrote that the character was supposed to be killed, even though he was already written as a cool character, and now they couldn't kill him off.
@@HealthyObbsession I mean I kind of understand though spike was literally killing innocent people without remorse and the audience was gushing over it.
The rabid fanbase is one of the reasons why I can never discuss this show without having some of my love for the show ripped away because the fan base could be totally dense most of the time.
I was fortunate enough to see/hear James at a convention, a few years back. He surprised us all by how funny, thoughtful and entertaining he was. Much respect!
My wife and I are huge fans of this series. Have it all on DVD, and have gone through it at least two times. I loved spikes character in the show. And can't envision it without him. I know it was Joshes writing. But James had a great way of delivering that evil persona, with always a hint of sarcasm and perfect wit.. that made you just love to root for him. "Thanks" James for all the many hours of enjoyment! 😊💖💖
Just two!? Explain the simpleton look you have for a character that tried to rap a girl but hey, great abs and "sympathetic" story line huh. Y'all are fuqin sick and missed the point of the relationship. He was toxic, period. It's not that deep
The best part about Joss's writing was that he gave him a redemption arc. And EVERYONE LOVES REDEMPTION ARCS. It speaks to the hope we all have when we know we're wrong. That's the way I see it.
I'm a sucker for a good redemptive arc myself.
How good would it be if people offered Joss his own redemptive arc instead of shitting on the guy all of the time!
@@thebathuman because his writing is garbage lately.
@@miffedcuttlefish6139 Well, that's subjective to a degree. I'm not invested enough to argue the point, though.
yes And Faith had a redemption arc too, though it was smaller
I will always remember the first Spike line and he certainly made it "home sweet home."
Spike's character reminds me a lot of how Castiel changed Supernatural: both of those characters were supposed to be killed off fairly quickly but the actors playing them were too attractive and charismatic to allow for it. While I loved Spike and Cas, the plotlines that had to be created around them did ultimately lead to the deterioration of the shows. I hope Kripke never goes Whedon because The Boys is still shockingly good.
Actually, I think it FIXED the shows. I never liked the idea that a CREATURE can be evil. ACTIONS are evil.
How did either lead to a deterioration of the shows? Without them in their respective shows the main characters would have had less dimension and less outside influence which gave the plots more depth.
When Castiel says "I am the one who raised you from perdition."
The look on his face....my friggin soul jumped out of my body.
Supernatural went down hill because it was dragged out beyond the original scope and it got tired using the same song and dance of needing a big evil to overcome for subsequent seasons. There were good moments but I felt that ending it at season 5 was the better choice. Castiel’s story beyond season 5 was horrendous to me. I had no interest in it. I enjoyed the initial seasons of Sam and Dean doing normal hunts and I felt that they went a bit far in levelling up their big bads and levelling down their allies like Castiel for the sake of continuation and convenience to the plot. When Castiel and the angels came in, and Lucifer’s acting, it was great and summed up nicely with Sam in hell. A bitter ending but one that felt concluded. Maybe if they had taken a subsequent season in a different direction then I would have enjoyed it more. I enjoyed Misha acting as Lucifer pretending to be Castiel as well as Crowley interactions in the later seasons. There was potential and several good moments within an overall downhill plot. Characters good, plot bad is what I saw.
The only reason I continued to watch Buffy at all was because of Spike. Buffy’s actions were often annoyingly blind (with the strict good versus evil thing) and I hated Angel and his characterisation. There was the whole moral superiority of Angel, despite him being forced into it and being a bad human to start with, whereas Spike is more nuanced and voluntarily became good. Nuance and maturity kept me interested.
so absolutely true . both had extreme talent and not to mention such good looks they kept us in tune everytime.
Love love LOVE this interview, Spike was one of the best characters on Buffy, I'm actually watching the re-runs of Buffy on the Comet channel every night, Whedon made the right move by keeping him!!! 🙌👌
erm Spike was the best character of both shows. Thank god he wasn't killed off.
Killed? Yeah, twice, but never killed off the show
He was one of the best ones, but not THE best.
@@YourCreepyUncle. Yeah. He's great for comedy and 14 year old girls who love bad boys I guess, but I'd argue both shows had more nuanced and developed characters in them.
@@KS-xk2so My personal favorites are Wesley, Angel and Fred. I never liked Spike much as a good guy, I always prefer earlier seasons Spike.
@@anatoldenevers237 Yeah I enjoyed Spike when he was a legit Evil badass, but the second they went to mopey lovesick Spike, I was done... and honestly I might hate Souled Spike even more... not because he's a bad character, but because he makes ZERO sense based on the canon of Angel with a soul, and how massively it changes him.
Oh wow, he still makes my heart beat fast... Such a lovely man.
This is so interesting! Spike was always one of my favourite characters from Buffy, I had no idea that any of this was going on behind the scenes. I love how respectful James Marsters is. Great video! I'm glad it popped up into my recommendations.
Oh man, him referencing Gandalf like that just shows what a wonderful, blessed dork Marsters is. Love him.
I loved the character of Spike on Buffy. The nuanced performance from James was very memorable and at times, extremely touching especially when Buffy brutally rejected him. It was such a fantastic show 👏
Genuinely thought he was English
I think that "you're beneath me" scene on Buffy was forced and contrived on "Fool for Love" like I get they were trying to flashback on Spikes history but he verbatim statement felt forced.
Damn good thing they kept Spike. He is the best character. The episode when he comes back to town and drunk, his history episode killing the 2 slayers, all of them shined the brightest in the series.
I"m so grateful for James portrayal of Spike! He brought that character to LIFE and was a huge part of the shows success. I feel like Joss owes James lol
I'm glad that they decided to keep James Masters on the show. The character of Spike is iconic.
His character was great! One of my faves! So glad they kept him around!
Greatest show of all time, no matter what you say about Whedon. Only series I can watch a million times and never get bored with it and always notice new things.
Been re-watching the series and Spike has some of my favorite lines when he's trying to annoy Angel.
When Spike and Angel were arguing about who would win in a fight between astronauts and cavemen was one of my favorites
"I'm busy Spike"
"Oh, I'm sorry, I don't care".
I always loved the line he gave when Buffy found him hanging about outside her home and told him to explain himself in 5 words or less: "Out. For. A. Walk....Bitch"
@@stevematthews7686 They scene was hilarious. And then the rest of the episode happened.
yaasss in Angel these 2 are like brothers! I like when Angel tells Spike "And your hair what do they call that? Radioactive?"
When he says everyone has their own experiences it's very true. When I worked in finance I had heard rumors of some guys and how horrible they would treat staff but they never treated me that way and never treated the staff horribly around me, they were on the best behavior around me. I believed our staff as I knew how two faced a lot the guys I worked with are but for a long time I wasn't in a position to do anything about it and worse these guys grew up in this culture and to them this is just how it was. I came from a teaching background and was adamant that you could actually do it differently and there was no need to treat staff like garbage. As a moved up along with my COO we made a lot of changes to the culture but the experience taught me that a guy like Whedon isn't surprising, so much of what was considered acceptable is due to culture and people within that culture don't realize it doesn't have to be that way or are powerless to stop it.
Marsters is such a terrific actor. I loved his snarky performance in Buffy. Spike looked like a punk rocker and pulled off the image perfectly. He was great in other shows such as Hawaii Five 0 (Victor Hesse) and Smallville (Brainiac). I was floored when I found out later that he wasn't actually English born. His accent totally fooled me. I hope we'll see him in future roles.
Piecing together all the different perspectives I've heard, it really seems like Joss is the type who takes on too much, gets frustrated when it doesn't go according to plan, and then lets that frustration and the pressure from those above him spill out on those working under him. That's both unhealthy and irresponsible, and the worst part of it is that he doesn't seem to be willing to acknowledge and apologize for it when it happens. Supposedly he's off "working on himself" right now, but he still hasn't come out and acknowledged what lines he's crossed. Maybe he will once he's figured it out, but until then it's like, what pride is he guarding at this point? Just eat the humble pie, man, it's good for you.
@@ItsMeBarnaby Thats total BS. Dan Harmon, a guy who went through VERY similar circumstances, acted badly and apologized and actually came out a much better person.
@@stackhat8624 Exactly what I was going to say. Dan Harmon gave a sincere apology, acknowledging not only what he did wrong but why it was wrong, and didn't deflect or make excuses for his behavior, he just reached out and took the criticism and asked what he could do, not to save his own ass but to help make things better for others and especially for the person directly affected. She called it a masterclass in apologizing and went on his podcast to talk about it (if I remember correctly). It was all very constructive.
Of course, there are worse deeds than either Joss or Dan has committed, but that's a whole other conversation.
@@ItsMeBarnaby He got "destroyed" in the press for like a week, then bounced back and he's doing fine now. Rick and Morty is still going and he's working on other stuff as well.
The level of manipulation, psychological abuse, and sexual assault he put the girls/women under through? There is NO excuse for that. Your euphemistic comment belies the danger of this man and ignores his victims.
@@bartwilson2513 What sexual assault? This is not something I've heard anyone accuse him of.
I think it helped to have Juliet landau as Drusilla to work with on countless episodes which made him a popular character even when he went to Angel
They wanted them back together, but she couldn't because she was working, so he made his remarkable comeback to the show, with that perfect "love is no brain" speech that made us miss him and love him. "Maybe I'm a love bitch, but I'm a man enough to admit it".
Looking back at the show now, learning more about it. You can see that because he was forced to keep the character, Whedon punished the character spike by going out of his way to tear him down. Every time Spike was becoming to well liked and too cool, a episode would come out where he turned into the huge comedic relief character. Or the easy bad guy to beat. He did it so often that the character became typecasted and was written that way for the rest of the show, and into the spinoff Angel. If they pulled back on the childish comedic releif just a little on the character in the final two seasons of Buffy, he easily could have dominated the male role for the show and create a great badass for Angel. Instead of just the cool, funny , occasionally badass, but mostly comedic, version in Angel. He was by far my favorite character, but i grew tired of seeing him get his butt whooped by everyone, all the time, every time..... They had a gold mine, and blew it up with dynamite.
I talked to James on Cameo. Super nice guy! He said I had a nice smile and called me love. I melted.
Met James Marsters at Megacon several years ago. He made a recording for my son-in-law who had just graduated and was getting ready to attend law school. The guy couldn't have been nicer and we had a very nice few minutes together.
As much as I like Joss's work, I've heard too many stories about his temper and mannerisms to ignore it.
Almost everyone in Hollywood has emotional issues, I've just come to accept that.
most people everywhere have emotional issues, and like to hold celebrities to standards they wouldn't meet themselves.
Sounds like you guys have no problem over abusive behavior lol. Here is a hint: You are part of the problem.
@@Tovek Look, Hollywood is a cesspool of degenerates. Has been for decades. There's a reason the actors etc. constantly talk about racism and sexism, because in contrast to nearly everywhere else it is a daily reality there. And then they project. But most of the abuse there is an open secret. The industry lauded and protected known abusers for years and former victims often assisted with procuring new targets and/or dished out their own abuse. It was only when it became profitable that some spoke up and then usually in a way to try to further their own careers.
People in Hollywood also seldom grow into their positions, people "make it big". Which usually means that formerly awkward nerds and bullying victims who women wouldn't even look at are suddenly surrounded by hordes of some of the most beautiful young women begging for their favor. Actresses held to constantly unachievable standards suddenly get to set the (same) standards for others. All that power at people's finger tips. And as long as you are successful, people will look the other way, will help, encourage and flatter....
It is but a handful of actors that actually have the talent and charisma to command the stage (there's a reason most of those that do come over from theater). The rest are essentially glorified escorts and get treated as such. It is an actor's job to objectify themselves into a product ready for consumption. THAT is something we should tell the naive hopefuls going to LA. And it is the same for both sexes. Hollywood is a pyramid scheme of abuse - sexual, physical, mental.
Wow! James Marsters is a class act. He was a “multi-threat”, multitalented performer in so many ways before we even had the catch phrase. He attended Juilliard.
Between Spike and Captain John, he bloody NAILED the English accent.
Joss Whedon is probably my favorite screenwriter. He is witty and clever, and just the right amount of off-beat. It broke my heart when all this stuff came pouring out. But that's also something the show (Buffy) was about. Growing up, figuring out which people are monsters, which monsters are people and who is somewhere in the middle.
Little did he know he was the demons he would write about
Good intentions pave the road to hell
This comment made me pine for a time when horrible people were good writers.
Now, horrible people are horrible writers and fans are demeaned and name-called if we don't praise their every word.
@@jimjam51075 I think that's a radical interpretation of the context.
@@voldlifilm Not really.
I can point to the Lucasfilm story group and the current Moses Ingram controversy they have capitalized upon/manufactured to cover their lack of talent.
The writers of Discovery kicked Walter Mosely (a black man) off the staff for using a racist term in context. They've used the same excuse to demean critics of S.M. Green's character as being unlikable and poorly written.
And fans of both franchises are vilified (lumped in with the very few *real* racist ones) for any and all criticism of the narrative quality.
His performance as Spike was mesmerizing, he was so enthralling and charismatic!
Wow this fascinating. Marsters shows real class breaking down Whedon’s side of the conflict. If anything Whedon did achieve a point with Spike’s character. Perhaps evil needs to be managed sometimes if overcoming it isn’t an option.
I agree.
Realistically, people, as different as we all are, are likely going to find ourselves working somewhere. Everyday people put up with horrible employers, we shouldn't have to, but we do. Identifying the issue is important, addressing it is sometimes the best we can do, call them out, going above them or be prepared to leave, or ignore them if you can, just seeing them as the pathetic brat they are us sometimes satisfying.
The fact that he was the victim and still tries to put Whedon in a good light, saying that he was under a lot of pressure and just wanted to create something amazing, I mean, how nice can a person be?! He is too good for this world and that makes me sad.
Pathetic
Ikr😢