MODIFIED BAFANG MID DRIVE WITH 8KW CONTROLLER!!! | DOES IT WORK??
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
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Louis Rossmann on UA-cam also had a problem with his Bafang giving a similar error. It turned out to be a dry joint on the PCB. Worth a watch as he also had error code 8.
ua-cam.com/video/z_5RlBvoNoA/v-deo.html
interesting.
@@mickgatz214 Needs a much bigger drive chain and a Sturmey three speed geared hub. Maybe a Gates belt. Get a tube connector put into the rear frame.
@David Elliott a sturmey 3 speed can handle high torque? I have an m620 measuring 240ish nm
the days of cycling with tubes in the saddle bags are over, now we need 3 spare chains for 150nm of torque
To be fair... When u r fast enough u can come home before tire gets flat xD
Apply heat from the bottom and apply solder from the top. Ensure the controller can get the power it needs. Double/triple up on battery power in parallel.
im grabbing a phaserunner at the end of the month, theyre tiny but can run upto 90v and 90 amps, waterproof and I run cycle analysts on all my bikes, it tells you all you need to know and can adjust all your settings easily. personally I do all my purchases through Grin Technologies in Vancouver BC. motors, rims, spokes, torque arms they have everything. Electric Race Technologies? on youtube might be able to help you figure out your mid drive issues
Yeah they are great. We get a trade discount from them so we can sell for the exact same price as them but we make a bit to support the channel etc
Look up changing primary reduction gear . It works like a gear box and can slip like a clutch.
On Hub motors they're called clutch assembly.
Due to the fast rpm of the motor, many controllers will not work. They simply cannot pulse quick enough. Grin Cyclery will have a solution...I believe they have a specific controller for this mod you wish to do. Spare gears for the extra torque a must. cheers!
Yes I think that is exactly the problem here, sensorless works but not for high eRPM, things have moved on since Adaptto, I think ASI/Grin Phaserunner is the solution, we will soon find out!
andy kirby some programming necessary, i think. Let us know how difficult the programming is! cheers!
I recently did a gravel ride post rain storm. I rode my 20" front hub 1500 watt 48v 12ah. I was amazed at the superior handling and control of front wheel drive in sloppy mud gravel. Are you considering stronge front fork, conversion kit options? I don't want to lose my Rohloff rear hub.
I know this is an old post. I'm curious about the longevity with pushing over 4kw+ through the windings and gearing of the m620. So to Andy, did you hit any failure points with the m620?
Hey Andy, nice vid, shame it's not working yet but i'm sure you'll sort it out. I'm getting closer to building my custom e-bike, still waiting on parts. I have a bad back & I store my bike on a bike stand I have a lightweight carbon fibre hardtail rigid fork MTB with 1.1" slick tires for the road. Since I can't put a battery into the frame without losing my water bottle & Airzone Bottle for my air horn I've found a large Frog battery box on Aliexpress that can hold over 100x 18650's, the box sits behind the seat so I can remove easily to lift the bike up. I've got 100x 3.7v 3.35a batts 10s 10p with a 40a 3S to 21S Li-ion BMS with 400ma Active Balance & Bluetooth. The mid drive is a TONGSHENG TSDZ2 36v 350w 80nm but it can be hacked easily to drive up to 700w which gives more torque. I'm not sure how much extra power I will tune it to have because as I noticed with your bike you seem to strip clusters a bit because of the higher torque on the chain. I replaced the brake rotors to 203mm all round from 180/160 that I had before & I have a 53T chainwheel & 11-40T cassette on 26" wheels which can get up to 31mph @ a cadence of 90 which is easy enough which only adds about 9kg or 20LB extra to the bike. The hardest part I think I'll have is welding or soldering the battery together, each battery has tabs on them, I was thinking about making it easier for me. For me this is all about the fun of building & getting a simple e-bike that I can still pedal to keep fit with. I'm not out to go even faster than the speed limit. The 2 main gears I think I'll be using are 5th & 6th gear which is a 21T & 18T giving 16.3 mph & 19.1 mph which is a comfortable speed to get around town.
Late to game but have you tried putting one of your small magnets on the IC and then power up, it could be for some reason the shaft magnet is not getting close enough to the chip. If it clears the error with a small mag then you know the electrics is good and it's just a shaft adjustment needed. Hope this helps.
Hi, thanks for the comment, yeah it was one of the first things I tried actually...but nothing! I’m beginning to think it’s fried, I have however just put a new (higher power) controller in! Results will be soon!
@@andykirby I didn know if I should have commented as I guess you would have tried that but just in case I did anyway 😁, also I guess you tried both sides of the magnet as I think this are poled north or south on the IC. Looking forward to the updates buddy 👍
No, by all means always comment! I appreciate it 😁 yeah I tried a few different things with the magnet, I guess I could have tried more.. you’ve got me thinking now..Oh well it’s stripped now.
I feel your pain Andy. 9/10, people only disassemble the ultra motors if the clutch or planetary gear fails. The best advice I can give is if ain't broke, don't fix it! Besides, the motor can be run up to 30amps. Is their any need to swap out the controller? Good luck with your venture and let me know if you struggle to get it up and running. Have spare parts for that motor if it helps.
Yeah I’ve changed the grease and had a look inside before right at the beginning, it’s very easy to work on. I have a couple of clutches and a spare large gear, what spares have you got?
@@andykirby I've got clutches, gears and a controller. I technically have a spare motor which I need to replace the clutch. If it helps, I'll leave a link to the website where i get my spare parts from www.greenbikekit.com/
Hopefully this helps. P.s. did you know that the Yamaha ebike motor spider is compatible with the ultra motor? You can run a 104bcd chainring (30tooth - 36tooth) which will amplify the torque. I'll send you an email of my build for your consideration and feedback. Look forward to seeing part 2.
Cool! Thanks for the info. That’s really interesting about the Yamaha chainring, that would be worth trying in the quest to find the prefect gear ratio to keep the bike in for all purpose riding. At 60V and 2500W I think you wouldn’t even need to change gear so this could be interesting. Yes please email me I’d love to see what you are doing 👍👍👍
Andy you have to revisit this again and give it another go but with using hall sensors now that people have figured out how to get hall outputs from the magnet. I wrote a more detailed comment in your discord and pinged in you the videos idea tab
Good idea, I'll check the discord.
@@andykirby Awesome man I can't wait to see that much power and that thing rip. I know high voltage built a PCB board to make the hall outputs easy and they are currently working on a bac 855 and possibly a bac 2000 kit for the ultra cause it can take the power.
sensorless is the same for electric skateboards, feels like there is more torque, rough startups usually requires moving before engaging the motor, stick to FOC (sensored) little bit less torque but you get better control on start up and hill starts compared to direct current.
probly wont help but that looks like a magnetic compass IC, which is like you say, pretty clever.
Clean up that lit magnet you showed us and clean that hole where it goes into. To much yellow around the rim and the hole. The clean that lit chip sensor for the magnet and I think it should be unplugged with out battery for two weeks so chip can reset maybe. Two weeks just to be safe. Then connect and try again. Best help I can offer.
I know this is many years later, but I have to ask...
Why didn't you just add hall sensors to the motor? The little board they normally attach to in a hub motor is literally just a breakout board to split off power to each hall. You don't even need one. I have QS motors that have 2 sets of halls and they didn't even bother with that little PCB. The halls are powered by the controller anyway. So you were basically a few inches of wire and 3 hall sensors away from having that Adapto working perfect.
I do love that Phase Runner content though. So it was all for the best anyway. I'm just mentioning it so in the future you realize that it's a viable option.
Can you not look at the ASI controllers? Like the ASI BAC 800? Alan Hu at ert deals with ASI.
Phaseruner as well
Have you tried contacting bfang to see if they can shed light on the problem?
Hall sensors are cheap - could you fit 3 of them in the stator?
That phaserunner sounds interesting. I got a VESC to play with but it only goes up to 12S at 50A. I thought it would be good to use as a backup if my internal magic pie controller goes up in smoke again, or make a escooter or eskateboard with it.
I thought about this but they have to be positioned accurately I think. I’ve got a VESC too, they are amazing. The sensorless operation on those is unbelievable. I did a video a long time ago where i put one in an old shitty electric skateboard that basically had an on/off controller in it and was dangerous. The VESC made it compare with a. Boosted board. I then bought a boosted board and the controller in that must be similar because it’s also sensorless but is crazy smooth on startup. For a minute I was considering a VESC in this ebike but then I remembered I’d seen the Phaserunner, FOC controllers seem to have really turned a corner in the last couple of years, the Phaserunner will be here tomorrow so we’ll find out won’t we!
@@andykirby Great comment Andy, really looking forward to your results too!
Glad to see you using a hub motor and specifically bafang. Sorry to see you broke it but it's a risk we all understand. Hope you manage to get a working controller for the motor. Interested to know which bafang you are using, may have missed that earlier.
Thats wasnt a hub motor
Possibly pulling too many amps and esc/ controller is detecting low voltage and cuts out, as there is no sensor to tell controller timing for the correct pulse to the motor.
Indeed! You need a BIG FAT BATTERY to run this 8KW monster. For a 72V system it means it must be capable to deliver over 100Amp continuus....
That’s what I thought too. Battery isn’t right
Andy have one of the kirdyebike kits have a problem with rear disc brake hub rubbing on brake caliper any suggestion on how to fix
Yes you need to use spacers. There’s a few included in the kit and with the torque arm.
Is it a 13S battery included in this kit? If it’s supposed to be “High Performance”, you need to be using a 14S 52V battery for your target clients to be interested...
De restrict I had same problem . Fly’s now
Well done mate. Also you can try the cyclone mid drive motor. Check out the Ellie motor
Hi. Can I check with you. Since bbshd is running on a torque sensor for their pedal assist. May I know for your upgraded controller. Do u plug in the sensors into the "throttle" side from the controller or the "PAS" Side?
There is a hall sensor, and another part that works with it, on this motor. Have you tried to order them and replace them?? This is a well known fix, for surging motor, but also for hall sensor error.
Hey Andy , I love your bike , it’s perfect for me . If I were to get that bike how do it go about it ? To put it together
sounds like the boards have an anti-tamper disable the feature and you have to have the shaft at exactly the same position as it came out. my suggestion is to put in a HALL sensor ring and leave it at that.... hell you only need one or 2 and there are 4 on most motors hell all it is, is a simulation of a Brushed motor to tell the Coils when to fire. If you could figure out the sequence you might get it working. sounds like your other controller is working off of a Back RF signal created when the motor induces a single in the previous winding you have to set the controller for your stator magnet count that's like bad timing on a Gas motor it will idol but it will not pull.. you get me... so disassemble the motor again and count your stator magnets and put that number into your controller think its a P11 setting I don't have that problem because my motor has 8 Halls but I can only check this if I actually get on the bike and ride. ua-cam.com/video/5BXH6GP8mPU/v-deo.html
Mij hall sensors cable was broken and i have bought a controller that doesn't need a hall sensor ,so only you need to connect the yellow, green and blue cable together and let the hall sensors hang loose.
I ever try to change the controller to normal bldc motor controller it work fine. Just the problem is so noisy like yours on high speed, maybe its need special controller which suit on mid drive. I hope there is solution for this
I think the motor has way too high kv. Have you tried it with hub motor which is usually approx. 10kv?
It does sound like timing problem . Advanced timing might possibly cause arcing which would elevate the voltage , probably tmore than the system can handle so it shuts down
Is it possible that the sensor moved or the motor moved and the sensor didn't ? In a gas powered car my distributor slipped due to a worn timing belt and the car started accelering weakly at first but had better acceleration in middle rpm . kind of like what you have . in the case of The arcing .... I was driving a kind of slow moving fork lift that was fitted with with modules . The mechanic had failed to retighten a power wire connection .... When I took it out on the work floor , It just kept on accelerating over 20 mph until I let go of the speed control . Its normal top speed is 4 mph ! After the connection was tightens , it ran as usual . We figured that the loose connection was causing arcing and multiplying the voltage as it did . Just my thoughts ... Timing playing with the acceleration or torque while causing arcing and raising voltage significantly to a point where over voltage protecting causes it to cut out . See if you can synchronize the sensor to the motor , by moving 1 notch only. Try each direction if necessary . Good luck ! ( I am not a mechanic or electronics engineer)
Need to see more on that adapto controller
Cool Video man.Will you be doing an all wheel drive Andy 😎
Hi. How far is the 750 w 10ah ebike in full charge on the flat road.
Try rotating the magnet.
It seems to be like a distributor .
Rotation changes the timing .
I hope you get it fixed man.GOOD LUCK👍👍🤞
have you put the shaft in the wrong way around,can it be put in both ways.
HERE IS THE THING: by the moment you take an complicated system apart to modify it without knowing the overall system you ask for trouble. And then you even pair it with another system which has its own software you don't know. This is a nightmare and doesn't even allow you to learn from it. Start from scratch and use a strong 3 phase motor from a hobby shop, get a right sized controller for it which comes with all descriptions and add needed sensors. Build framing and gear reduction if needed. THATS way better to learn from.
Don’t worry about it 😅 learning is the name of the game here and I am happy to break things in the process so others don’t have to. Also we now know something about these motors that others didn’t. Now because of this experiment I’ve got it running faster, with more power from another controller (that’s taken me a week of tuning) and it’s opened up a whole new world of possibilities for others to do the same with builds like this. If you want to buy something that works and is less than average then just go and buy an ebike from Halfords. If you want to learn about high power ebikes welcome to the club 😁
hello i have an 250 w bafang mid drive motor and can i change my 250w 36v controller to 500w 36v or other 36v controllers.
All this makes my head in
Was there a bonding agent? Thermal paste ? Just thinking out loud
Andy I am getting a error 30H on the bafang after only 55 miles, should I replace the controller?
Andy, I might be late the party, but I think E-bike motors need a Hall-effect sensor, and I'll explain why.
The problem, as I see it, is that there isn't a coordination between the motor RPM and the pre-programmed torque curve of the controller.
As I'm an auto guy, I will mention that my crank sensor on my 1992 Ford Ranger's 2.3L Inline-4 engine is a Hall-effect sensor. However, my truck also has a RABS (Rear Anti-Lock Brake System) magnetic sensor in the rear differential. This is important, given that the RABS module that controls the anti-lock braking function of the rear hydraulic brake system communicates with the ECM (Engine Control Module) to coordinate between engine RPM and actual wheel speed (hence also detecting wheel slippage). The truck's ECM is the equivalent of the motor controller in your setup.
What I think is happening is that the motor may simply be roughly guessing where the torque value is pre-programmed, based on speed, and once it hits a certain speed, the motor jerks the bike into more speed, rather than torque, since the bike is already moving.
If the torque curve could be more controlled with more points on the curve, then the acceleration should be a lot more gradual, and you would get more distance out of the motor RPM before the controller governs itself and cuts out. See if there isn't a governed RPM/speed setting in the controller settings, and if there is, that may be set really low, hence the motor cutting off prematurely.
Boi got Skills**** (Phahahah)
If it ain't broken mess about with it till it is . I'm just the same, but if we didn't try to improve and develop we would still be on penny farthings.
what throttle are you using?
Hi Andy. Can you tell me what was the name of the rear view camera you use on your ebike for traffic , you use a screen on handle bars to see traffic behind you.
Ah it’s not quite a camera in that sense, it’s a rear light called a varia with a built in radar that connects to a Garmin Edge 830 GPS.
@@andykirby Thanks for getting back. I've watched your videos very informative especially in ebikes. I've been mountain biking for over 20 years and little motor cross. But may next year I'm getting my first ever ebike, from poland, it's built to order. It will have 22000w and easily do 70 mph, not that i need that much, but it's nice to have especially for uphill and cross country and the roads.
But I'm buying the bike and have it shipped over, so I'm learning as much as i can on ebikes. It's just the freedom to go out and not peddle yourself to death to get from point a to point b 😜.
But I'll keep you upto date when I'm buying.
could have a start up initiation sequence that needs manual turning to set it up
What's that helmet at 12:40? Name or link pleasee
Hey did you see Sur Ron? Bike Do you think I should buy it?
If you want an off road motorcycle then yes.
What tires are you running? they look massive
Can you put a horse sensor back on. Dunno
Oooh,.dont forget to order a large box of nylon gears.
yeah for sure if it was the BBSHD, but the Bafang Ultra doesn't have the nylon reduction gear.
I have a bewo mid drive. There is only a 3 pole connector to the motor, the 3 phase supply. There's no feed back from the motor. What's that suggest?
Interesting, it could be completely sensorless.
@@andykirby www.digikey.co.uk/en/articles/techzone/2016/dec/how-to-power-and-control-brushless-dc-motors . I was thinking of buying a bafang. the fet controller is a separate box on a bewo. good video.
Could be the controller isnt meant for high motor rpms? Mid drive motors spin quicker. Could try a eskate controller? The cycle analyst can run that
Yeah I think you are right, the Adaptto was an early iteration of a FOC controller and things have moved on now as you will find out in the next video!
Phaserunner or ASI BACs, I am going for phaserunner once I get my ultra. Heard good results from both of these controllers
Yes defo, the Phaserunner will hopefully run well with this motor, Grin seem to think so. They’ve not tested it themselves with the ultra so I will be feeding back to them about it.
Is there a reset button on any of the boards?
Hi mate just wondering what yours thoughts on Chinese 8000watt 48volt b52 style ebike would be like figure your the guy to ask
It’s a minefield to be honest. So many bikes available now! First thing I would say is 48V at 8000W is 166A which is pretty much impossible to do reliably with a cheap small battery that will fit in a B52 style frame. You need 72V to achieve that sort of power reliably. That would be my first concern with whoever is selling that bike!
Ok mate thank you very much I have been looking on alibaba there are so many im not sure what to d but I need a reliable bike to use for work and don’t want b52 price but I need the power for satisfaction lol
Looking at it ihink it has a gear position sensor like a cars pulse engine
Good luck! 🤞
How many watts is that thing omg
Seems like instant phase over currents t
Curiosity killed the cat.
Andy is 12 awg wire any good for 40 to 50 amps
If it’s copper then yes.
@@andykirby it is tinned copper wire 680 strand
@@andykirby Oh really... U don't even know the cable length!
The hall sensor.. IC ! has proprietary sync... with controller! Seems u can’t connect any other controller.. in sensor... mode! That is.. this what I understand.. hence error ! Ya will work in sensor-less mode.. but I admit.. I hate sensor less... very rough .. UNREFINED! AH WELL THE THINGS U DISCOVER!!!🤓🤓😳
this sensor is the speed sensor for the controler.. or so i think =]]
It can’t be because there’s no hall sensors anywhere else???
Guess it's your battery BMS. It cut power when exceeding the maximum amp.
No it’s not that, the power to controller would cut ad you’d see the display turn off if that was the csse😉
@@andykirby May I ask what are the battery volt, cells and BMS?
If it ain't broke don't fix it 🤣
Absolutely!
We've all done it.
Last thing I took apart was an Abloy padlock. Just wanted a quick peek at the cylinder, then bit dropped out and I was sucked in deeper and deeper.
If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features!
I don’t think it’s gonna work without the HAL sensors mate.
Do you still have this
What happened your hub motor bike?
It’s in the workshop nice and clean and gets used for going really fast!😁
@@andykirby I sold mine and bought a giant full e but the guy who bought it has offered me a straight swap... I'm tempted...
What so you are tempted to get your old bike back?! If I could have one bike it would still be the big one😁
@@andykirby really tempted mate it's pretty much same as your big one only green 🤣👍
Andrew Martin haha! Do it! I haven’t seen a green one 😅
Doh !!
LOL, I think you fucked it up. Test and more testing. :)
It's got China syndrome lol
shows how advanced the Chines
To be continued...
8 kw Bafang ? hmmm niceeeeee , but its broken -_-
8kw?!?! How could that poor chain ever withstand that kind of power?
It can’t. Motorcycle chain needed!
Ask big clive
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it ain’t broke make it faster!
Hard reset
It's got Covid 19. Take it to the local hospital.
Watching this soldering job is making me cringe. There is a reason you need to heat up the wires you are soldering first. You are basically melting the solder on the iron tip and drizzling it on to your wires. The wires are extremely conductive so when hot solder hits a conductive wire the heat will dissipate very quickly into the wire and it will harden the solder very quickly. If you heat the wires up first from the bottom, then use the solder on top of the wires the wires will actually suck/draw the solder into it (think de-soldering wick) and your connection will be solid. Your soldering job will be very superficial and prone to arcing and breaking. Just observation comment is meant to educate not berate
Shouldn't open the moto then ini 🤦🏾♂️
"BUILD YOUR OWN BIKE LIKE THIS!!!" No thanks, for obvious reasons!!!
Looks like the phase on the motor is not kicking in
CA have all kinds of flakey readings on power and speed. It has to be configured and installed just right or it will read you back total nonsense.
It’s the shunt mainly, once you get that right it’s pretty accurate. Also it helps if you are using grin controller with the CA, /saying that though my Infineon worked pretty well with the CA.
fuck using a controller, just hardwire the battery to the motor directly and use a variac as the throttle lol ! edit ,was sarcasm
Yeah pump the Price!