The amount of times that I’ve written out an entire response only to hover my thumb over the post button and end up deleting in the end, because what am I truly adding to the discourse?
how can y'all watch the whole video and then still leave such a quippy response? this has no substance n also kinda doesnt even make sense with the rest of the video...?
@@sco145well on one hand it’s cowardice on the other hand a lot of people are scared to put their name to it due to cancel culture and ridicule. Like you can’t even have a negative opinion anymore…
@@fort809 that’s not what I’m saying read what I said. If someone attaches their name to a comment on UA-cam they could lose their job or something in real life. That’s why people don’t say who they are. That’s on one hand on the other hand I’m agreeing with you where certain individuals also use it as an excuse to bully or being jerks. I see both sides.
@@sco145 "main character syndrome." Just shout out some more trendy phrases why don't you. Everyone's their own "main character." theres a difference between self-advertisment, self advocation and just plain narcissisim. Trust me ~ theres something a little more going on than just self-aggrandizement. there is a some picture online floating around where its like "Class clowns at school - Class clowns at home" which might inform you a little bit. Lets keep in mind ~ class clowns are not something that I can see *really* existing in post-primary education, so we are exclusively talking about children here. Trying to crudely shove everyone you know into whatever pidgeon holes society currently has its eyes on is bound to be reductive and GAY.
Ethel put it perfectly, an “irony epidemic.” Everything is self-deprecating and nihilistic. It feels like we’ve regressed to the “vulnerability is weakness” ideology, as if trying to be serious makes you less of a person. After Liam Payne’s death, there were memes within the hour. A persons life ended and the internet’s first reaction was to make him a joke. And if you called it out for being classless, you were told to “cry about it.” The line is nonexistent at this point between what can be a moment of humor and a moment of real world dialogue. While the internet has always been gross, we’ve hit a zenith. It’s like people that say they like art for “vibes,” without contextualizing it any further as to why they like something.
By 2040, all social media will be looked at as the equivalent of smoking cigarettes for your mental health. This will be medically accepted. I’m calling it.
I felt this way when I saw the pictures after Trump was shot in the ear, immediately after it happened people were laughing about how pathetic he looked. I’m not a fan, but it made me a bit nauseous how quickly people can laugh at a picture that has blood in it.
Yes! I understand that Liam Payne was a horrible person (i.e. abusive towards his ex-girlfriend and texted underage fans) but these people need to understand that what if Liam’s son saw that? You can have your thoughts about someone, saint or sinner, but you don’t need to air it out to the world. The internet needs to learn to keep certain things to themselves.
@@summerzszszI literally never heard of this guy before his death, though I had heard of One Direction. Jc, did he send inappropriate texts to people or are you saying they were under 18 so shouldn't be communicated with at all? I have no context for this comment.
i find posthumous albums to be the only albums people seem to have consistently serious discourse around as if it's the only time people can be bothered to reign in the funny. so many albums deserve deeper conversation and today's internet doesn't hold space for that anymore.
Depends on what your definition of "taking art seriously" is. Isn't humor an expression of human enjoyment? The mere fact that people are interacting with her work AT ALL. Speaks to some level of enjoyment. She's just being an angsty teenager.
Saw her open for Caroline Polachek at RCMH, some obnoxious girl was shouting “YES MOTHER” every time it got quiet, eventually someone in the crowd was like “hey! shut the fuck up!” Such an annoying experience.
Just being there shows support for the performer(s) both mentally and financially. Being over the top annoying and attention seeking isn’t, that makes you seem more selfish. I am so sorry you had to endure that. Worse than a dead crowd
I saw D'angleo Wallace discuss this as well. I'm glad it's getting some attention from a variety of creators. It must be exhausting to wade through all the silly shit to find some valid feedback or dialogue. I don't blame creators moving to paywall options to sift through the chaff to find some true fans.
so true i thought the same about a small paywall, even if it’s just $1, because sometimes even half of the audience is professional haters. And being part part of a “club” makes you more likely to engage at all.
@@Knabtube626Sure, if you engage with any statement with the most negative and cynical perspective, I can see why you might think that. But if you engaged with her post beyond your initial negative reaction, you’d be able to figure out that she’s just asking people to stop hiding behind 15 layers of irony and jokes when they want to express an opinion. It waters down the conversations and feedback to be had with that media when no one is capable of engaging with it beyond superficial jokes. If you worked hard on something for years (say a memoir about your mom’s death), finally released it to the public, and everyone’s reaction is immediately jokes with no comments on the actual subject matter, how would you feel?
The point you make at around 9:38 is really it for me. I've been watching your videos since around early 2011 and I used to love sharing my thoughts on the records you reviewed or specific criticisms within the video but at this point it just kinda feels pointless because those kinds of comments would just get buried now. It just makes me (and I'm sure many others like me) feel like it's not even worth taking the time to actually engage with the video within the comments.
Everytime I see Fantano's hostility to his fans, and this is not the first time their behavior has been brought up, I feel heard. Just a bunch of obnoxious children trying as hard as they can for their precious internet points. At 10:20 I'm glad he outs them directly.
hey, i just left a comment here like this! i love to talk about music with friends, but i never do it here since i know no one will engage in it... so, since there are more people like you and like me, maybe it's not pointless after all. even if it's buried under jokes, someone can see and engage with it, right?
You can be as serious about shit as you want. You can't expect the rest of us to care about what you care about. Stop acting like fucking babies. You, this dumb as Ethel Cain, and stupid fucking Fantano. People don't like you. Deal with it. People don't like me too.... so I deal with it.
It's crazy, because they also have to have notifications on to get to a post in under 2 minutes of posting. When it's consistent, it starts getting sad.
Just about any "joke" that follows some kind of template. You see them so much that they are tiresome. I also hate first comments. At least add something useful to your comment. I know you're excited and feel like you have to do it fast but it's essentially not an actual comment. What is even the point of commenting if you aren't going to make an effort.
This is honestly really encouraging for me. I usually keep quiet about my thoughts on most UA-cam videos because some channel cultures focus in on inside jokes, cliques, and humor that diverges into topics that don't engage me like the base material that these comments come from. If this is the change we want to put into the community, then I'll start coming out of my bubble and adding in those insights. Time for a change of voice and shift in comment culture.
I feel the exact same way. I read so many comments on multiple platforms from people demeaning creators with humour and think “why would someone take the time to write this”. I think I’m part of the problem because I tend to deflect with humour as well, but I really don’t understand the overall culture of the ‘irony epidemic’ infesting audiences to not engage with material beyond a superficial and deflecting degree. I think I will do the same as you, hopefully we can start contributing more thoughtful insights and positivity into our communities :).
“I ain’t reading allat” “Zip it up when you’re done lil bro” “Simp” “What is blud yappin about” “Cringe” “Mid” “Pop it out lil bro” “🤓” “It’s not that deep lil bro” “Glaze” “Bro is doing tricks on it” “Nobody asked” “Goofy ahh” “Cornball” I know there are plenty of other phrases that people spam whenever someone is trying to be sincere, but these are all I could think of right now. I don’t even like saying anything anymore online, because authenticity = cringe. People are so scared of being vulnerable about their opinion nowadays that they just project it onto everyone else, calling them “cringe” and the other phrases I listed above. And it sucks because oftentimes these are kids. And these kids will grow up to take our place and run the world one day. And they will be parenting future generations, who might further exacerbate this issue even more.
You’re right and I’ve also noticed how people have started co-opting aave and often times overuse it or use it incorrectly and as a black person it does get kinda tiring just seeing it all be watered down into a big joke, after a while it starts to feel like bastardization
"womp womp" is my least favourite one of these. I'm in the older sect of that generation and it saddens me seeing people in pain or being mistreated and the only response people seem to come up with is some kind of variant of "suck it up" or "too bad". Its such a demeaning thing to say to people and the lack of empathy both on the interner and on real life from people is sickening
Suggestion for you Fantano and Ethel: incentivize thoughtful comments by picking a fav. comment and liking, replying, and pinning it to the top. This would likely shift behavior for regular fans/commenters of your videos because people would want the 15 minutes of fame associated with a massively upvoted comment. That being said - I'm sure that would be a logistical headache, and I've heard it's unwise for creators to read the comments section. Maybe hire some help.
I think this would be a great idea. Creating a reward system for thoughtful, engaging interaction is a great way to incentivize it. Being featured in a video is far more social cred than getting top comment. And I think for a lot of people once you have that little push it would get them over the hump, so to speak, into genuine discussion. Though I'm sure there would be some doing backflips trying to impress Anthony/Ethel.
I wanted to post the same thing, tbh. On the other hand I completely understand when people claim to never read their comment sections, it can be mindnumbing for sure.
what annoys me even more is the influx of "its not that serious" in the comments when someone DOES choose to engage with art in a more nuanced and serious manner... the "maybe the curtains are just blue" epidemic of media illiteracy and desperation for likes and approval online has nuked meaningful discussion around art and meaningful art itself at times
@@CPUGaming that is by far the most fucking irritating comment for 2024, it replaced 2022's simp. People made their entire personality the drake-kdot beef.
Yeah, a lot of people forget that being fun and being artful aren't mutually exclusive things. I was talking to a friend about the John Wick movies; while I appreciated plenty of things about them, I told my friend that I thought they were really poorly paced, and he immediately told me to "not take them so seriously". I was a little taken back because... I like dumb action movies; one of my favorite movies period is Kill Bill, so I wasn't really taking the John Wick movies that seriously. From a pure entertainment perspective, I found them to have a lot of dead air and meaningless plot points, but my friend took that as me "overanalyzing" an action movie. I love movies, and it always pains me to see people I know limit themselves like that. There are movies with good actions scenes and a good plot. There are movies that are entertaining and have really great cinematography. It just awful to see people willingly choose restrict what they can like just to be seen as not pretentious.
The fear of vulnerability has definitely reached a saturation point. Circle jerk reddit subs, discord servers created solely as a forum for trolls to screenshot and mock people in other special interest servers who fell for their 'fake sincerity' trolling, alt account after alt account just to let people know 'if I'm too afraid to be genuine here I'm gonna make sure you're afraid too'. I'm in my 40s now and honestly can't connect with anybody online anymore, because I can't understand the callousness. This is actually my second comment - my first mentioned how it's particularly common (and especially awful) for people to troll sincerity by applying a label for a specific disorder in the pejorative, but my comment got auto deleted due to the term itself. As someone whose daughter has been diagnosed with that particular disorder, in retrospect I realise it's probably (unfortunately) for the best that the word earns an auto-delete.
I've read/watched shounen since I was a kid and the amount of circlejerk subs about the most recent generation of manga ending really destroyed my patience. I'm only 26 but I feel like the people younger than me who never lived through a slightly disappointing ending react in kind of insane ways. MHA got weirdly taken over by cuck and McDonald's memes which was pretty baffling, and I think it speaks to some latent right-wing/incel anxieties more than anything else. Seeing a Redditor say "we're allowed to call out" the author for writing a bad story as if he'd used the N-word was ridiculous, every criticism has to be a fucking fight now. Ironically they're more invested than most people who just enjoy a show and move on with their life, holy shit.
@@yuza1032 It's like the memes are cover - like there's an actual opinion in there somewhere but if it's expressed under 15 layers of meme or joke the person can distance themselves and avoid being mocked. But it just perpetuates itself. (being old, I haven't read much manga since Caravan Kidd, Ranma 1/2, Macross Plus - I can't even imagine how different/awful the online fan space would be these days)
@@twoften These days things get really weird because fans will look at raw chapters and hallucinate some insane ending based on machine translation or one rando in the comments who only half understands Japanese. They prejudge and come in with the worst assumptions and there's a culture of people competing for who can spoil something first for attention.
no because this is so fucking true. She is being entirely honest and Accurate as well. It's something that's bothered me for ages now and couldn't articulate it, so I thought I was just legit going crazy because I kept thinking I saw people only making memes and jokes out of everything in music, or movies, or games instead of actually engaging with it or thinking about it at all. It's just easier and better-received to make dumb memes than to actually talk about why you like or dislike something.
I agree. I remember when the Barbenheimer came out I criticised it for being insensitive towards the victims and then people kept mocking me for being “soft” and not having a sense of humour. I feel that now we make fun of every tragedy that’s happened in recent memory ranging from 9/11 to the Holocaust. We use humour in everything now that we can’t have any serious conversations about any topics, ranging from Diddy to how we view art and media, it it really frustrates me since I love having conversations about politics, Art and entertainment and I feel that, as an society, we regressed on having deep conversations on anything and as an result, people like Jordan Peterson and Russel Brand are considered “intellectuals” and “truth sayers”.
I also kinda just noticed it now! Crazy. I also realize on every video I immediately look at comments to see what other have thought about whatever content of the video I just watched, as if I need to see someone else's opinion in order to form my own. And these comments are mostly short and without a lot of reasoning, or jokes
Wjat I find most interesting is that this is definitely completely unique to the internet. I have never had problems finding people that could actually interact with the art that we are talking about. I also think it's because we live in such a fucked up, pay check to pay check society. It's difficult to take something like music seriously when your life is falling apart and it is just getting worse
@@mr.dirtydan3338but why take music seriously at all? Its another facet of consumerist society that has zero meaning to the grander stage of life. I'm sure all those deaf people are craving to hear the garbage that most artists put out anyhow. If you cannot go 1 day without music then something is honestly wrong with you.
she's right, sincerity is literally a dying art i told my friends in earnest a few weeks ago how much i love and appreciate them and because i didn't frame it ironically, they asked me if i was on drugs i was at a loss for words... and it made me really withdraw for a while, i was embarrassed. and since i engage with art the same way, i withdrew from my hobbies too this is a real problem edit: also i responded to those friends with "i'm high on life - yet your whimsy up" lmao
idk bc real friends wouldn’t make you feel like that. i’m sure they “care” but do they cherish your presence? sounds like you need friends that do. and not that you gotta cut them off or anything, just that they may not be your tier 1 friends
I had this same situation with some of my friends a while back, I had invited them to go camping with me and while we were around the fire I told them how much I loved and appreciated all of them and how much it meant to me that they agreed to do this with me. One of them just replied “Awkward.” No one laughed, so it was just that one person, but it really knocked the wind out of me and I was really embarrassed and bummed for the rest of the night.
I can relate to what you are saying here. It's almost as if people are scared to have serious and honest conversations. I've only been around since 1992 but I don't think it's always been this way. I also notice, at least in the US, that so many conversations reference pop culture or bland consumerism. We need to be able to talk about our emotional well-being and our philosophical views.
That’s one reason why I hate modern mainstream movies, like Marvel movies for example. Any scene of genuine emotion always has to be undercut with comedy and when characters have a serious discussion or existential reflection, it can never just breathe without some LOL moment to deflate it.
Yeah it seems like everyone just wants to drop a quirky short comment in anything and everything these days, letterboxd, youtube, literally any social media. I mean it’s funny sometimes but damn can we get some analysis
Nah, cause people don’t want it. The system is just a catalyst… given her “meta character” I’m not surprised at all about this, would be more surprised if this did not occur.
Absolutely this this and this. Thank you so much for posting this. I have been saying this for years. I am so tired of opening Letterboxd and always seeing the 50 most popular reviews on any film being quirky short comments or quips just because those that post them brainrotted by the internet they think likes on their reviews (that mean nothing) are more important than offering their individual insight and providing substantive review/appreciation/criticism of a piece of art; truth be told, they're probably not interesting or intelligent enough to offer that insight, so they make milquetoast jokes instead, but could they please then get off the app so others can actually offer something interesting for people to read?
I don't care about being attacked, but I do care about washing too much time or effort on social media, and sincerity does require more time to express than irony n such.
It’s true since expressing earnest opinions and engaging with art is becoming “uncool” when someone will probably just respond with a nerd emoji. It’s the death of caring about anything at all, perpetuated seemingly by a growing number of people who care about nothing and are too dumb to understand art at all.
Ironically I've had better conversations on Reddit despite the stereotype. My theory is that the communities I'm currently in are "dead" with only a few hundred people at most active in them at once. Most posts get comments in the tens at most so the hunger to get the most interactions isn't there because it isn't possible to blow up. Once I look at more popular communities then I see more ragebaiting, interaction baiting and less sincere discussions. I've seen this on UA-cam with channels that don't get a lot of views. But you still get a lot of "bot" comments.
@@lemon_key You are part of the problem. Likes don't matter. I'll disagree with a 10k liked comment if they're wrong, fuck a ratio that shit isn't real.
It’s also worth nothing that Hayden’s first album covers some really personal and serious themes of religious and sexual abuse aswell as having a lot of political and other commentary, and seeing it be reduced down to “lol cannibalism” “lol amish girl” must be frustrating when you’ve put your all into what is an absolute work of art. I hope people actually engage with her upcoming album more seriously. And yes on the deeper topic it is so frustrating how this community and most others online are allergic to sincere conversations. I’ve left paragraphs like this on your reviews before and recieved the classic teenage boy type “L” comments etc or whatever other memes are here. And it makes me feel embarrassed to even bother trying when I am apparently surrounded by what I have to assume are mentally stunted people incapable of having a complex thought, even if they try to claim it’s just defensiveness of not wanting to be vulnerable etc.
The wrong people became fans of her when she got (unwillingly) catapulted into the Tiktok pop song stan culture world. Theirs's "fans" shitting on her underground friend features, specifically Wicca Phase who originally helped her get seen and she sees him as a big influence. Just so many kids treating her like she's Sabrina Carpenter or something and she is absolutely not of that world or wants to be part of that world. It's just so obnoxious to see, my partner is the bigger fan of her and we watched her go from cool underground person associated with other people we both like to being torn apart and misunderstood by obnoxious Tiktok kids who don't know a single thing about where she came from.
This reminds me of an interview with the director of Wonder Woman- the reporter asked, "This may be a cheesy question, but what do you want people to take away from this movie?" And right off the bat, you're thinking, "What is cheesy about wanting to know what the director's intent is? Why would you start such a question with a fall-back? So if they say your perfectly normal question is dumb, you can just agree and say you knew it was and never get an answer?" She (Patty Jenkins) responded with the following, "Did you say cheesy? Cheesy is one of the words banned in my world. I’m tired of sincerity being something we have to be afraid of doing. It’s been like that for 20 years, that the entertainment and art world has shied away from sincerity, real sincerity, because they feel they have to wink at the audience because that’s what the kids like. We have to do the real stories now. The world is in crisis." Now, I am not saying Wonder Woman is 'what the world needed' by any means. I'm not even saying it was that good of a movie, just that I've noticed, at least in films I've watched in the past decade or so, that they are so afraid to ask for an emotional response from their audience that they don't allow them any time to respond. There's always a punchline or an action sequence to tear you out of a moment where you should be sitting there and thinking about how nice it would be to have a real person care so much about the world that they'd put themselves in danger for it on a daily basis. Or how much you love your partner because they'd never abandon you. Or how important our children are for our future and how messed up it is that we are putting them into a world designed to make them fail. It's so much easier to dismiss emotion than it is to sit in it. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to enjoy simplicity, either, but it's as though the option to have deeper thought spurned by our media has become nearly unavailable, and what thought-provoking media there is, we've basically been trained to respond to with neglect.
This is why I really respect pieces of media like Everything Everywhere All At Once, the discography of King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard, a lot of Doctor Who episodes, etc. These things know that they're weird and stupid, but they choose to embrace it fully instead of just constantly making deprecating or "self-aware" quips every 10 minutes. I don't mind this type of humor done sparingly, but it can give the impression that the artist is insecure about expressing their art. It's almost like the artist has to constantly apologize to the audience
"... they are so afraid to ask for an emotional response from their audience that they don't allow them any time to respond. There's always a punchline or an action sequence to tear you out of a moment..." I think you managed to succinctly explain in a short paragraph what I couldn't quite put into words about what's turned me off about a lot of media as of late.. I'll use Thor: Love and Thunder as an obvious example of a tonal mess. Heaven forbid we have a sincere moment and let a scene linger for impact, need to throw in a gag and cut to the next one!
South Park was the original progenitor of this anti-sincerity movement imo, but I wholeheartedly blame Joss Whedon and Marvel for the incessant nudge-winking that seems mandatory in movies nowadays because they don't expect the audience to actually suspend their disbelief.
@@HeckYep In fairness I think the MCU was (initially) actually somewhat good at pulling this off, it's just all the copycats that started using quippy, self-deprecating humor as a crutch rather than an occasional comedic style that made it worse
That's internet spaces in general, across the board. They are consistently not funny and either incredibly cringe and moronic or completely toxic and hateful. Find a "good" space and watch the process unfold until it becomes one of the above. It happens all the time.
@@johnniewolf133 That's a fair point, and definitely something aggravated by UA-cam comments as a medium for actual conversation (vs Reddit, forums, etc) but I do think it's more apparent in Needledrop and Fantano comment sections than most in the music critic space.
Yeah but compare to a lot of big gaming channels like Penguinz0 or Xqc, Fantano's comment section looks revolutionary. Edit: Charlie's comment section got better nowadays but 5 or 4 years ago, it's basically a meme thread like here on Fantano's channel. I feel like a lot of other channel's are also moving on from those types of comments. While Fantano's stays about the same and xqc's are now making fun of "whales" or just straight calling him an idiot.
Irony poisoned internet addicts who can only communicate ironically through tired and rote memes because they have absolutely nothing of their own to contribute.
2 thoughts: 1) the lack of sincerity has become pervasive beyond music. For example, in movies the lack of sincerity is being analyzed starting somewhere in the 2010s. There's a phrase that describes it "that just happened". A bunch of movies instead of leaning into sincerity, will wink to the audience and say something like "that just happened" or make pithy remarks instead of respecting the audience. So it goes beyond music. The culture in general is going hyper-ironic. I guess it's not cool to be sincere or something. 2) as far as Reddit and even UA-cam comments, so many times a comment will be deleted that it disincentivizes people from taking the time to make meaningful And thoughtful comment. Especially on Reddit where whole posts get deleted so often that I hesitate to take time to spend my time actually thinking about a good comment That surely has an effect
Reminds me of the classic Key and Peele "awkward" sketch where Peele just keeps saying "awkward" and turning to their friends every time Key gives his thoughts about a movie or TV show. Then at the end Key grabs Peele and demands he offer a genuine opinion about literally any topic, and Peele has an emotional breakdown lol.
Right and to add onto to that truth of epicly needed back world sincerity lol this comments section is so true and right even Anthony and the assaulted artist by all this ass ass ass assault ass people be just having off and not on off enough around each other to even let another man woman or child or who or whatever even if a dancing frog nearby happens to need tooo ohhhh I dunno maybe enjoy a nice sandwich or something at list I dunno like seriously¿ Though like why do people even think it’s appropriate or necessary to not even have the granted consent to share openly hate based opinionated purposefully bastardized hate like that all pretending like they’re even evoking the true holy wholy ho whoa a moly word (supposed¿) of a mightier than though reverse hate based ecenomjc even based system like that for? Like collectively common with all the come ons world and just stay blessed kind and or maybe at content happiness wise to the best of your ability at least when it comes to sharing an emotional or passionate based opinion everybodah like lol cmon now y’all all be chill cool like loll fr😅🩶🥸
not just "a bunch of movies", marvel slop. There's been lots of good films that got released since. I'd also blame click baity crooks like cinemasins who don't know shit about the medium and just walk all over the suspension of disbelief to cry how "DA CHARACTER DIDN'T DO (thing that would ruin the story of the movie) SO MOVIE BAD" when they don't get things like "character flaws" or "plot devices"
I've been experiencing the same thing with my friends, even. Some of them can't take me seriously or stop making jokes even when the subject is heavy and important, and it just pisses me off. I don't like nor have social media aside from Telegram, Whatsapp (for work) and UA-cam, and yet those same memes keep being regurgitated to me when I'm trying to open up sincerely about why I left therapy and decided to never go back. Like, please. This is a group friend chat. I've known you for more than 10 years. I know you're funny. Can we please take this thing seriously just once? And when I mention my frustration, then "it's not that deep/serious!" I like youtube bc it's the only place online in which a paragraph isn't seen like a wall of text. People fight and can't find common ground bc they don't have enough attention span to engage in regular discussions online anymore. Makes me sad.
Back when I was posting my art, I remember the comment that got to me more than any other was "Now do [something else]". I got it all the time, and it always contributed to this feeling of nothing I made ever being enough. Like I was just a dog having requests barked at them, if that makes sense. It'd be so much different if it was ever a compliment followed by 'I'd love to see you do [thing]' or some variant, but no. Now do this. Now do that. Do more thing. Churn out more content. It got bad enough (along with other complications) that I just stopped posting, and I wasn't even that popular. 🙃 Makes me miss the deviantART days where people were at least slightly more thoughtful.
I've noticed this with art accounts too. I think it can definitely be overwhelming this is valid for sure. we deserve to have our art actually engaged with.
I feel like people are so accustomed to seeing things tailored for them, like Anthony mentioned with the comments, only it's all the content online. They get this sense of entitlement and immediate gratification. Social media has ruined people's attention spans, patience, understanding that not everything is for them, etc. I have seen this as a common conplaint in the art world, along with people never being happy with art if it doesn't exactly fit what they want. Instead of shutting the f up sometimes, they feel the need to criticize a real person.
I can see Tyler talking about this subject in his upcoming album. His latest song Noid, Tyler expresses his distain for the celebrity status he now finds himself in. Dealing with prying eyes of fans and people looking to take advantage of him. He’s discussed this topic on wolf before in colossus, where he interacts with obsessive fans. This isn’t the only song but it shows Tyler willing to call out his fans out and incite reflection or change.
Yes, yes, and yes! Whenever you try to talk or even enjoy the art that a person has made, you are instantly bombarded with apathy and sometimes just straight-up hate. If I try to talk about a manga I enjoy, or an album I like, in deep-level detail I am instantly hit with "you're yapping", especially in Internet culture. We need to normalize caring about things! There is a toxic romanticization of nonchalance or apathy in today's Internet that makes it seem like it's lame to care about things. This will eventually lead to people not caring about things at all. These people are suffering from a severe lack of media literacy, and they think that looking into a series farther than the surface level is cringe-worthy or undesirable! Caring about what you love and wanting to share that passion should be celebrated, not ridiculed or disrespected. It is one of the things that makes you human!
have you ever considered that people have different preferences than you? just because some people dont like to analyze art too deeply or dont find enjoyment in peeling back a bunch of layers of bullshit symbolism doesnt mean they dont enjoy art, or they arent "human" I just like art that speaks to me through raw emotion. When I look at van goghs starry night for example im not sitting their trying to think to myself "hmmmmmm what does this represent" instead it just communicates to me on a raw, emotional, level, without needing a bunch of symbolism or whatever bs. I personally hate how much art has become solving some sort of puzzle rather than just communicating via emotions. and its not just simple pieces i enjoy. large classical works in my opinion convey that same feeling. when i listen to a piece by beethoven i can just *feel* the sadness or whatever hes trying to convey. i dont need analysis and thats what makes it so potent
@@adgiijnadgopionagduiopn2o2222 I never claimed that they aren’t human and that it's perfectly fine if they choose not to engage deeply with art. However, it’s important to recognize that different art forms convey meaning in various ways. In my previous post, I was specifically addressing art that calls for deeper analysis, like manga, music, or intricate storylines. A simple rant about societal issues wouldn’t make storylines enjoyable or engaging. Instead, you need to incorporate symbolism so that viewers can appreciate it while also drawing moral lessons or deeper meanings from the experience. And as you said, it's about preferences. You may enjoy art through raw emotion, while I enjoy art via deeper meaning and analysis. And what I said was that caring about art was a thing that makes you human, not the sole reason. A person who doesn't care about or enjoy art isn't going to turn inhuman because of their preferences. And if you don't do analysis on art, and just take it at face level, then you are ignoring the artist's possible meaning, context, and technique.
Sometimes people do deserve to be shut down if they are being cruel, sexist, racist, etc. I feel like those comment will make me laugh in that context. However, It seems like people would rather just be mean rather than form a coherent reply, even to nuanced opinions. It's okay to engage in civil debate.
I've given up looking at comments on theneedledrop channel because they are 90% copy-paste unfunny jokes. Unfortunately other comment sections aren't much better
Hey man, Been watching you since 09, first time commenting. I just wanted to say I appreciate you taking the time to address this trend. Personally, I find it difficult not to fall into the trap of vilifying the fact that people can have a sense of humor, while also noting that post ironic humor has become so generalized and abused of as a resource on the internet, that it may no longer be a choice and/or source of enjoyment for many people, but rather might be furthering dissociation from real discourse, that's both sincere and affected. While the artist showed her anger towards the issue, it might be helpful to remember that people that are chronically online are also chronically alone. Joking about and belittling the work of other people might be the only means to get some sense of self worth back for some.
True. Even tho many good things have come from the internet, I believe the world would be so much better without it. At the same time it's not like it solves every problem. Basically Tabloids, TV has been doing the same thing to a degree, showing the world through a subjective lens. Like if you watch the news 90% of it is something bad happening.
This is a great way of phrasing it. Unfortunately, the solution isn't always just to do [insert simple task], as for many this has been plaguing them for years, even when they do the "right" things they feel nothing is important in life, that they're just waking up and waiting all day to go back to sleep; humor can be all they really have to keep going when taking life seriously feels akin to giving into hopelessness. It's extremely understandable on both ends and I can grasp the frustration of yearning for sincerity, but also the need to distance one's self from the vulnerability and darkness within that comes with that.
I roll my eyes now whenever someone says "what is blud yapping" or "cringe" or anything else to that effect. It's almost like they're actually proud of not being able to partake in a discussion. It makes me not want to talk about anything online in turn because what's the point of talking to a brick wall. I get it's mostly just kids having fun but it's getting harder to find people who are passionate about a subject and want to have a discussion about it. It's nice to read all these comments and realize I'm not alone in this thinking.
Why do you think they're not partaking in the discussion just because they use a short-hand to say "what you're saying has no significance" but it's weird to talk like George Washington? You can of course want to engage with people by writing a more thoughtful response but the gist of it would still be "You're wrong".
You are yapping a bit. In the internet there are more spaces than ever before for any particular circle you want to end up in. Maybe you just need to find new circles.
10:13 for the past 3 months, EVERY SINGLE MUSIC VIDEO i go to has the same top comment: “If you didn’t come from TikTok, you’re allowed to like this comment” and it is so annoying that this inescapable comment gets 80k likes every music video you go to nowadays.
Thank you for this! There was another creator that put out a video recently pointing out that if everything is "just a joke" or people are being "ironic" all of the time, how is any experience being taken thoughtfully or sincerely? And after stepping back, I realized that was 98% of what I had read in comments in the past 10 months. This is inspirational to try pushing back against that! Thanks Anthony
@@doozledumbler5393 When I dissociated from trauma. It seems like everyone is dissociated nowadays. We're wasting our time being afraid of reality rather than embracing it.
@eryn857 I would argue that humor can not only be one of the most powerful coping mechanisms, but also one of the most delightful forms of self expression and often a very authentic demonstration of interpersonal closeness and appreciation through shared humor. The problem I think is that some people are unable to suspend it or turn it "off", and many (particularly those who are younger and have experienced less emotional growth) are still learning the concept of "time and place", and occasionally will channel it in a way that seems mean or vindictive at worst (and immature at best). Still, it pains me to see that some only see humor as a way to cope (which it can be, don't get me wrong), and not a genuine way to be connected to others and to enjoy life more fully.
@@Lil_Yuri Humor can be a powerful coping mechanism as well as a way to form bonds, but I don't think many people are actually using it to cope. I think we reflexively use it to deflect away hard and difficult conversations that make us feel uncomfortable. Being the first generation to grow up on the internet has really thrown us into deep waters and we never really learned to form or value those connections that we're now missing in order to stay afloat. Conversations like these are important to start the healing process where we can learn to properly navigate parasociality and rage baiting without feeding into it. Then we can pass it to the younger generation and they'l be better off than we were.
theneedledrop review comments are part of the problem: - you would have given a 10 if it was 'To Pimp A Butterfly' joke - so you give X artist a X but X artist an X? - damn anthony you didnt need to give it an X just because... literally please shut up
The problem is you'd need to mass mobilise this sort of thing as being cringe before anything would stop. People do it because it's most popular, and the power balance is with them. More people wanna be stupid then put thought into what they say.
I think the curse of the "irony epidemic" is a real thing. There are so many people my age who know absolutely nothing but are convinced that they know everything and so any art they don't understand is simply just beneath them and they refuse to acknowledge its merits. Twitter is the worst place of all, everyone tries way too hard to be the loudest in the room and just "dunk" on shit. It's easy to write something off with a joke when you're too lazy to engage with it thoughtfully.
It’s not even just an online issue either. Sometimes I try to engage in serious and genuine conversations about the things I love with irl friends. Probably 90% of the time, it’s met with the words “mid” “cringe” or “too long”. I can talk to a pal who watched the same show for example and the only feedback I will get is jokes and dismissals. It’s so boring.
Yeah the “irony epidemic” is very real, and I admit I struggle with serious engagement with things fairly often. This is because the world can be a nightmare, and is based around greed and exploitation by a small ruling class that is currently destroying the planet that contains all known life in the universe, so the engagement or responses to anything serious, like different art forms, will usually be to joke or dismiss any seriousness in order to avoid thinking about the horrors of our society
"Hating" being the default form of engaging with anything online, might've been even worse in the pre social media, Internet 1.0 days of neckbeard dominance. The majority of the neck beard nurrds had no sense of humor nor chill, with matching, so you'd get long-winded walls of neckbeard pseud-speak one-upmanship just to be the one to say "THIS SUKKS, I HATE IT!" in the most convoluted way.
I've grown up my entire life in an irony poisoned internet. For me, this is the standard, humor is the only way to engage with media in any way, and it's a contest on who gets to be the funniest. I've never lived in a time where serious discussion or genuine thoughts were being shared in open online spaces, and it still feels odd to think about. I think the reason this "epidemic" is spreading so quickly is because the internet is just so much more popular with children, and it's growing rapidly. That's how it's presented, as a playground, and you can't really expect thoughtful conversations in a playground
@@thefanfinfulo i see it, and i resonate hard. i wish there was more nuance, more areas of grey in a black-and-white world. im in total agreement, though i do get it, people use social media as a form of escapism from when life feels boring, or in worse cases, troubling and painful. i feel like the time will come when we’ll find those more sincere spaces
I think you overestimate the amount of children doing this but the playground analogy works, if the place has the reputation of a playground people go there to play and then that spreads and influences the perception and makes a feedback loop.
You know, I remember the internet before this phenomenon, and to be honest the idea of someone growing up in an era where you can call the internet a "playground," is absolutely 100% fucking horrifying. It's way too accurate in how the internet has gradually catered/marketed to younger and younger people, and how the overall perception of the people you meet has become.
This phenomenon is especially present on Letterboxd. I still love the platform and have found users that post very considered and sincere reviews but when you look at the top rated reviews for any given movie, the vast majority are just one line jokes or shit like “she ate and left no crumbs”
Agreed. I've been consistently using Letterboxd since 2018, and though I've had maybe 1 or 2 thoughtful reviews receive some love and added discourse, it's usually my jotted down, pithy reviews that get read and liked
Same on Steam. A well thought out review will get a dozen likes, meanwhile “nobody reads reviews, so I’ll just use this to say I’m gay” gets an ungodly amount of engagement.
Good video, I agree. The one thing I dislike about leaving comments or suggestions is the fact that it's not ever noticed or "people don't really care" circles around in my head. Sometimes, I just leave a comment anyway. Rarely. As an artist myself, it's honestly a joke, it goes nowhere, but the fact that you keep doing it, it's bound to connect with someone somehow. It's hard to get to know your audience and what they want.
I agree with feeling like it’s not even worth commenting most the time. I rarely comment on anything because I notice I start checking the likes for validation, “ it’s been a day and no one liked it I shouldn’t have even said it.”Online interaction has conditioned me to that feeling so I just avoid it. It’s something you can get better at though. I’ve made some friends recently that actually listen and care for what you’ve saying instead of listening for a place to come in with a joke and I’ve noticed I allow myself to be more open, even with people I don’t know.
“Its not that deeep!! 😭😭😭” -The terminally online brain’s reaction upon being told to stop and give an opinion on something without copy/pasting the same response over and over
Well here's the thing, why do they even need to share their opinion to begin with? Most people's opinion on art, media, etc doesn't really extend past "I like that" or "I didn't like that" - and that's perfectly OK. But it seems like the internet has foremost fostered a culture where sharing your opinion on every new movie, on every cultural event, on every tragedy is incredibly valued and a must, and suddenly you have Sandra from Winnipeg writing three paragraphs about Erdogan usurping the Turkish elections after reading a headline about it on Facebook. I have to think this toxic culture of irony - and it is a very toxic culture, I despise it - is in part a counter culture response to this phenomenon.
@@AA-wq5sm theres a lot of performative sincerity, and maybe some of the sub mental "jokes" are response to that, but most of it seems to come from a place of genuine incuriosity, and actually kind of hostility to the concept of engaging with anything on any deeper level than drinking a soda or taking a shit. Its ur-consumer culture, like opting out of engagement, everything just part of some chemical diet injected in you as you march in a line, this increasingly unfunny caveman grunt reflex of memes is the only language some people feel comfortable speaking and they resent anyone does anything else
@@iamantieverything87The majority of people in the real world wouldn’t even know what a meme is or what that word means. An even smaller minority actually post that stuff online. I think a mountain is being made out of a molehill here. You are genuinely right about that group of people. It’s sad but ultimately doesn’t matter that much. It’s their loss if they want to be like that.
Honestly the Geordie Greep comment sections are a good example of this. Guy is releasing genre bending Latin esque jazz rock and all the comments are just ‘oh he be greepin’
Maybe the problem is expecting to read well-thought out analyses in comment sections on generalist social media platforms with small text fields and no formatting. That's never been the case. Go to blogs or forums instead.
As someone else said in the comments of this video, everyone wants to be the class clown first. And in order to get the joke out fast enough, they have to dumb it down to a shitty catchphrase to type out fast enough to get likes when the video gets uploaded in the first minute. Any nuanced discussion in music comments will almost always be buried.
I have to agree, we have entered post-ironic hell. I feel like half this shit isn’t even funny anymore you need sincerity and irony for irony to be funny. It’s like the ying and yang. We’ve entered a universe where everything is ironic and a joke. I feel like this is why comedy movies have really been on the decline these days. Why do we need comedy movies when everything in our lives is ironic and or a joke? I really like 90s emo music because there is a certain rawness and sincerity that you just can’t seem to find in most mediums these days.
I think that's a good point you made about irony needing sincerity; and with you bringing up comedy movies- I actually really don't like watching comedy movies myself and not because I'm fucking pretentious but it's just like, I could easily waste my time scrolling through social media for thoughtless humor if I wanted to. Why would I then spend money going to the theater for the same thing? It would have so much more of an impact and it would incentivize me to want to see it if the movie had some sort of sincerity behind the humor. But sometimes I see some comedy movies that legit are just like vines and it's sooo bad LOL and just kinda meaningless ig? It feels like -- especially since I live in the US and so capitalism yayy and over-consumption etc. -- everything is just designed to entertain, but that's it. Nothing more. And I think that's why I resonated so hard with your point about irony needing sincerity. Just because you're making something to be funny, doesn't mean that you can't be genuine too. It's not an either/or situation.
The real question for me is if it's even worth trying to engage anything with a focus towards mostly sincerity online, or should we save such efforts for our engagements in the real, offline world?
even modern day "good comedy" like smiling friends are conpletely irony poisoned to hell and are essentially incapable of telling a straightforward joke with a punchline. everything has to be anti humor or an inside joke or a reference.
I actually agree with this. Everything is turned into an attempt at making the funniest comment, and it's really killing discourse. Even worse, it's not usually the unique joke that rises to the top. Fantano vids are a great example: It's usually a safe bet the top comment is something along the lines of "Great review but you really didn't need to say *politically incorrect thing vaguely related to reviewed content*." And often if you're the guy who gets in depth, people will even shit on you for it. "Bro its not that deep" type replies. It's seen as cringe and weird to analyse things. I miss the old internet where this was less the case - where people wanted in depth convo.
That and also people are “like” hungry and the social media space encourages even troll behavior now. The gloves are off and people would rather be mean then engage in the material.
Social media space has always encouraged troll behavior, Same as how gamer spaces have been toxic since they're inception. Stop trying to act like this is a new phenomenon
im an Australian youth, and while i was in highschool not a single boy could speak without using irony and jokes and sarcasm. girls too but especially boys. i was the subject of bullying (cause ofc) but most bullying was insulting you as a joke, or complimenting you in an extremely sarcastic tone. that experience plus me being autistic means i crave genuine conversation basically at all times, even though i catch myself slipping into irony. its dissociative
Real shit man, that's the culture now and its really not healthy. It would've been hard since you're autistic and I apologise on their behalf for your mistreatment 💜💜💜
That's real shit man. It's the culture now and it's really disappointing. Being autistic would've been difficult for you and I apologise for the things you had to deal with
i remember back then there was a lot of this irony poisoning in the death grips fanbase. turning one of the most unique and groundbreaking post-modern art projects into a haha funny meme. it's only gotten worse with time sadly.
But you can't take the internet as the end all be all of discourse. People seem to honk that the internet is an accurate representation of our society when it couldn't be further from the truth
Same with Swans. Slint is fortunately pretty untouched, but man the Swans fanbase is insufferable. I'll take pretentious pseudo-essays on the band over memes any day and that's saying a lot
you and ethel can do your part though, pin introspective comments, ask deeper questions, prompt people to comment specifiically, shoutout the comments you wanna see more of?? like yeah the internet doesnt incentivise it but theres hella easy stuff u could do
I think people are generally afraid to engage with sincerity because there's always that one person who's rolling in and ripping it apart (at the very least). Not everyone is cut out to defend their positions because, IRL, it's just not required. People have opinions and that's that. Online, however, you better have your shit tight because there's a preternatural jackboot lore warlock doing the dance of 1000 knives ready to carve you to ribbons - and they brought their acolytes! Better to drop a one liner and live to laugh another day, I guess.
i feel like the turning point i noticed is when people started treating a comment section like a group discussion. they stopped talking to the content creator and as a result it became like a lunch period in middle school. everyone’s talking amongst themselves
lunch period is 100% spot on- we’re here to get the group to laugh, not to engage in human discussion. If you’re too real, you’re cringe, and I hate that.
@@gunz-ahimbo yep. i see it all the time on tiktok with massive creators. everyone in the comments is saying “__ never misses” or “i don’t know why ___ does this” like why can’t you speak to them directly. it feels like social media has become an exhibit for people to provide opinions on strangers who they don’t know
If the creator doesn't respond to comments, why not address the rest of the commenters instead? At least that way a conversation gets going. I don't think it's all that surprising with bigger channels.
I think this might be one of the biggest problems in online and irl discoure (of all kind), a problem that cannot be underastimated. I see it everywhere all the time. Lots of people only pay attention to things when these things are quick, funny, simple. Every discourse seems polarized to me, simplified to its core. It's gonna stupidi-fy and simplify everything and it will be a biiig mess. I guess mom was right about social media...
I don't tend to engage much beyond listening because I can find it hard to get a decent discussion going. When you looked at Rolling Stone's list of disappointing albums, I was going to comment that Summer in Paradise by The Beach Boys or St. Anger by Metallica should have been in there instead - but I didn't bother because I'm aware the responses would have been just attempts at quippy humor or snide comments about my choices - and that pushes me away from ever bothering to comment.
If it helps, I think your choices of albums for the list make perfect sense, though I’m coming from the perspective of having only seen the Trainwreckords video on either album and not being a huge fan of either band
That Rolling Stones list was so dated despite coming out in 2024. Hardly any albums in the 21st century despite goldmines you mentioned like St Anger, or at least more notable examples people care about in 2024.
@@Noise_floorxx nah there’s others, apparently the Metallica subreddit has a “weekly St. Anger defense thread”, and I’ve heard some are into the more lofi feel cause it’s a less commercial version of the band to them. I’m not sure where I would recommend finding other St. Anger enjoyers since I’m pretty casual with music discourse in general and I generally don’t recommend Reddit as a site worth using it; but there are definitely other people who enjoy the album and I hope you can connect with them someday :) Also, I think St. Anger the track is catchy
I use to review games for about 15 years. And What I noticed going from the magazine era to the web is how quickly readers/viewers went to the score. Dozens of hours, notes, arguing with my fellow writers only to see the response "7.5? Why so low?"
Also, the ruining of a 1-10 scale. A 7.5 means you think the game was solid, playable, and worth picking up for I would assume a sale of 20%. But to most people, anything less then a 9 means you genuinely hate it.
Yeah, this goes for any scaling system. With albums, books, movies. Some of my favorite shows, games, etc. have several problems and I would not consider giving them anything above an "8". But some things I have moderately enjoyed, no notes, are nearly perfect "10" games to me. Basing how good something is based on a number, and then comparing those numbers to other things, does not work. It is not that simple.
@@dankbonkripper2845 Could be completely wrong here, but part of me wonders if the American grading system has something to do with that too. Some people I know are genuinely shocked when I say 6 means decent and 7 means good. I'm SO over "anything below 60% is an F".
@@cng507 Above all of that, a great deal of people would rather see a score for a thing they've been primed to love/hate (confirmation bias). Rather than actually reading and understanding why the grade is the grade. But I do think the average grading system probably does play a part in how people see scores. Which is why I do champion the handful of outlets that moved away from scores/grades all together.
Look at any Mitski comment section. Any black midi comment section. Now take a look at what happened during their concerts. Less and less fans took them seriously and started ruining the shows. That's actually one of the main reasons why black midi is on hiatus, or possibly even broke up. This actually effects real life and it's getting pretty bad. It usually happens the more popular something gets, and so people just want to be the funniest fan and get the most attention or whatever. I was always against the notion of gatekeeping artists and not wanting to get popular, but honestly? Me personally? With how people treat popular things, I would hate for my work to be treated like Mitski's or black midi's. I guess another reason why it's so important to support any bands in artists in your local area. Create small but stable, local groups. Capitalism sucks.
@@mynameissol Some Mitski fans started laughing at her during her tours and meowing at her, and she took a tour break and increased the age limit at some of her shows because of it. And some black midi fans kept shouting memes and just acting ridiculous, and it really wore the band down, especially during the Hellfire tour, and they split up because of it. I don't even know the full picture but I'm sure there's been worse cases. The lack of sincerity is actually destroying people's careers and mental health.
i was looking for the comment that rightfully pinned this issue (that stems to most, if not all, forms of art and entertainment) on capitalism. that in tandem with reels/tik toks/shorts/etc and the ever-reducing attention span of the average person, we've managed to find ourselves in a really unfortunate time period of art that is mostly driven by profit incentives. it encourages views and clip farming over quality of creation / discussion. nothing feels original anymore because some small artist or content creator will release something sincere and beautiful and new, and either a larger creator will outright steal the idea and capitalize on it or hundreds of thousands of other people will create carbon copies of it. it's draining to consume and painful to watch. god i need to get back into nature and camping lmao
I love Ethel Cain sm, she is so important to me. I really hate all the brain rot stuff especially towards Preacher’s Daughter. It’s a super heavy and nuanced album and you can feel how she put her soul in it. I’m sure the people making stupid jokes are fans of hers and are well meaning, but i think it deserves more care.
I actually think this is part of why people feel so lonely. There's a lot of factors to that but given how society, particularly in the states, isolates everyone to a large extent, the majority of social interaction most people have is on these platforms. When you talk to someone in person, it is way way WAY more likely you'll have a meaningful conversation. Those are so much harder to have on social media, so it feels like we can't express ourselves or articulate our thoughts the way we want to. Also separate point: this phenomenon has also made concerts worse, since there's always at least one dweeb who thinks they're the funniest guy in earth but who just annoys everyone with their attempts at "humor".
it's wild how many people jump to devolving a normal conversation into a confrontation. i've just started ignoring, blocking, or going "ok" and ignoring the comment chain.
A major reason for loneliness is people sitting in front a screen all day and not standing in front of other people. It’s like people forgot how to go outside and meet new people and establish relationships. You’ve got a whole world to explore and meet new people and you’re wasting away on a computer/phone/tv screen. These people are chronically online and it’s horrible for their health.
Social media bastardizing quality discourse made me think how much I miss old internet forums with different topics. Yes there were also jokes and memes, shitposting if you will, but the lack of "social media dna" made these sites better places to have quality discussions because the lengthy conversation never got buried under poor content cause there were any algorithms. You almost always knew the context and you'd be able to follow the discussion from the start to the end. Everything is so fragmented nowadays.
It was also a bunch of small communities of like-minded people. A lot of the interactions online is strangers giving fly-by likes and laughs to strangers. There's not really a personal connection. On forums you'd learn who regularly posts in various places. You'd learn their usernames or their avatars, you'd learn how they talked and how they generally felt. I feel like I was way more open-minded and understanding of people when I used to go on forums, even people who strongly disagreed with me because I knew they were a complex person. I know that's kind of dumb, everyone is a complex person even if they're just posting a random comment and even if they're a jerk. But what I mean is that it was way more impactful because they were part of the community you were in and you saw it with your own eyes. You knew their likes and dislikes. You'd argue with them on some music discussion or general thread but then you'd go in the gaming or movie section and get into a great conversation about a piece of media you both loved. There's a lot of lost human connection online nowadays. It's sad.
This is so true with Needledrop vids. Every comment is a, "would've been a 10 if it was called (insert joke)", a Melon joke, or just something else irrelevant to the album being discussed.
surprised he didn’t mention the most common one I see at the top “Why did Melon have to [mentions most heinous thing they can think of which he did NOT do in the video].”
Yup, this is the one. It's almost always a TPAB reference too. If it was called to pimp a ___ you would have given it a 10. My god, shut up please. It's one thing to be constantly ironic and it's another to just post the same joke over and over again. It's not even funny.
Honestly I think it’s very interesting to see this difference irl I’ve noticed people of an older generation or who are generally less online find younger/more online people *really funny* Like, I’ve noticed a lot of folks my age or even myself throw out simple one liners because vamping on things is just the culture, and it’s met with completely unexpected laughter or praise for the humor, as if it weren’t mostly just a part of how we talk. Honestly I do think, while it can be taken too far, the comedy is a good thing. So long as you’re *also* willing to engage with things seriously, it can be a very expressive and upbeat way of communicating your thoughts about things.
One example of this is the Breaking Bad memes, like that gif of Walter falling on the sand. That scene is one of the most shocking moments in the show, t’s a huge moment in the series and is supposed to make you feel devastated. However, I’ve seen so many people watching the show for the first time completely missing the emotions it was trying to convey because they were only focused on the meme they had seen once. This happens with so many shows and movies nowadays, and it’s really sad to me because people are missing out on great experiences with art that they could have had.
better call saul even more so. i dont find anything even remotely memeable about it. it's just sad pretty much all the way through. in any case its incredible and i couldn't recommend it enough
I feel like you could say this about most of pop culture references no? it feels odd to view these things negatively when they are always going to be this way, I bet loads of people got into breaking bad specficly because of the memes. I personally don't feel like this is a problem at all.
Engagement is what makes people click vids. And in the videos people will see ads. People will not see ads reading through comments. Therefore companies have no incentive to make people spend actual time reading comments. I hate it, but if we want people to have actual discussions in comment sections, we will need ads in the comment sections. As long as algorithms are only about engagement, they will favor hateful, funny or blindly idolizing comments as you have described. And out of those 3 funny is actually the best in my opinion...
What gives me hope is that IRL people aren't really like that. Tons of creators that I follow where they believe their audience is only made of chronically online degenerates are pleasantly surprised when IRL interactions like cons and stuff is just, regular everyday folks (let's not also go into the fact those people barely leave the house and have zero social skills and just abuse irony and jokes to hide their insecurities and anxieties)
Exactly this. People getting the impression that this is just how the world is now are unfortunately spending too much time online. Most people are normal.
I do agree with you. But what also feels so bleak about that is the idea that so many young people that are growing up attached at the hip to the social media experience won't necessarily recognize that, much less indulge in that. The vast majority of their social examples and peer comparisons are spent in the small hours where they're private and alone with the masses of shallow attitudes online, warping their perspectives on these ideas, basically pre-shaming them for potential engagement with experiences, their own thoughts and feelings about art (or any other topics). I hope that's not the case by and large, but you _know_ it's certainly the case for some. Ugh.
The scary thing however is that people below the age of 14 who grew up with sincerity as something to be ashamed of actually do act like that in real life.
i agree, but furthermore i think the internet has created this delusion where people see the worst the world has to offer and not only think it's the norm but also start developing an ego and a sense of arrogance because they know how to behave themselves online, inadvertently causing them to repeat the exact same behaviour they think they're above because they haven't interacted with people in the real world as much. and whether anyone likes to admit it or not, this kind of behaviour DOES have real-world consequences where some people act as unlikeable as possible because they think they're so well-behaved and then question why no one seems to want to be around them or talk to them. and this is pretty unrelated to the point, but i also find it interesting how a lot of stuff that gets universal acclaim online doesn't seem to get as much from people who aren't as "plugged in." like the amazing digital circus, for as much praise as that show gets from the online world I've yet to meet a single person irl who thinks it's anything above ok at best
I got in the habit of typing long ass comments but every time I would post it I would think “Is someone gonna tell me it’s pathetic that I’m putting in this much effort.” I feel like that’s just the attitude of online discourse. People will tell you “it’s not that deep” in response to your genuine thoughts on a piece of are but, in reality, it is that deep. In an age where we communicate though the internet first and foremost, it’s damaging to our perception of the world to reduce genuine conversation down to “yapping” and instead proliferate tired jokes that don’t engage with the subject matter at all.
when you wanna engage in discourse it's called yapping. the overuse of "quit yapping " is so annoying, same with liking anythibg to any degree turning into glazing.
This. All the hyper exaggeration of basic behaviors. Respecting women is “simping”, analyzing something is responded to with “it ain’t that deep”, wanting to be skilled at something is “being a tryhard”, etc
@@stuartbarrett755 it definitely feels louder than it seems like our collective memories can recall. The past of the internet wasn’t always great, we had the mid 2010s mainstream bigotry as “comedy” UA-cam era and the musty old forums and things like that, but venues like twitter and TikTok have a way of making things feel more pronounced
@@Cdr2002 I wrote in my main comment that I think people have just embraced the memes. Like I saw people say they're tired of X is X comments but Charli XCX used that as her advertising. Barbie used Ken memes. But most memes unless specifically forced by the creator is usually just as a response to bad product
@@stuartbarrett755 I was more talking about responding to sincerity and discourse with thoughtless meme comments and not reactions to media, but I acknowledge that there are times where products use memes themselves, sure
I feel as though every youtube section over time devolves to having a few formats / types of comments. For example theres the comments under any music video: "Here before tiktok/ You can only like this comment if you are here before tiktok 👇" "Who is listening in (year)? 👇" "Im from Gen _ and i wish i was born when this came out/They don't make good music like this anymore" And also certain youtubers have in-jokes that get commented every single video regardless of context, the worst case scenario would be Jschlatt's comment section, no dig at the big guy, i watch him frequently across all his channels.
I think people’s tendency to default to humor in online spaces comes from the utterly inescapable seriousness and bleakness of the reality we live in. We go to the internet as an escape from the outside world, not with its original purpose/intent to use it as a tool to enhance and elucidate our outside physical environment, because then the weight and clarity of what we’d be faced with would be too much for us to bear. The more public an online space the less likely you’re going to encounter thoughtful discussion. The best serious online conversations are deliberate in their intent and purpose and between smaller groups of people with specific goals in mind. A place like the UA-cam comment section has become too big and too generalized for anything productive to happen. The sad thing is most people simply don’t have the time or luxury to think about things deeply. We only have minuscule amounts of time we can spend away from the cycle of working and sleeping and struggling.
For real. Our reality growing up did not include a class on how to have meaningful discussion, the lucky few of us had to figure that out on our own, and now with how big UA-cam has singly become, it's like we're all being smooshed back together
Yeah I often feel insane a bit when I try to treat the Internet as an extension of lived reality. It’s so useful for organizing and for casting a wide net in building community. It used to be I made friends all over the world but ESPECIALLY since COVID started things have become sooo bizarre and so many platforms and sites have become impossible to use for actual interaction since every fucking platform is just punishing adults for wanting to be adults and talk about real shit and taboos and whatever the fuck else. Can’t even say “fuck” without getting shadowbanned or having your content limited. The way we somehow are no longer allowed to talk openly about death and we for some reason have to say “unalive” feels like there was an actual death in the family. Western society’s relationship to reality is so warped and disgusting, like, we can’t cope with the most universal of human experiences bc it’s happening so constantly on such an overwhelming and disturbing scale. Idk. Free Palestine.
It's social media literally killing all social skills, nobody can actually talk to each other and hold a conversation! Thoughtful, meaningful discussions are a lost art. For example, I would love to talk to people about WHY I personally think Bush's Sixteen Stone is a Grunge debut as good as the likes of Facelift or Nevermind, but all I would hear is jokes or blamket statements about why I'm wrong. Nobody can debate or speak reasonably
tbh idk how others my generation (z) feel but irl i definitely can have deep discussions. i get that not everyone and every time it’s great but me and my closest friends love these chats. i think it’s just a symptom of online interaction. i (thankfully) haven’t run into anyone who does this shit irl. it’s still annoying online tho
To be frank, I don’t know you but maybe you need to step back from the internet or cut down your usage because it can drive you crazy. I know because when I had literally nothing going on in my life a few years ago I was spending way too much online. Most people irl are normal. For the most part, it doesn’t represent the real world very well.
@@jonathanmarkham1998 I've done that to be honest, I've not used a social media app (UA-cam aside) since January... best decision I've ever made, but even the people I know in my personal life that are around my age, all they know how to talk about is TikTok and other brainrotted things. I know two people who legitimately can have good conversations
It's amazing how quickly this comments section is just proving Fantanos point. I think both this channel and the main channel have become places where people just immediately dip in to make some sort of quick witted joke about the title of the video or a meme relating to the artist that Fantano is commenting upon. I've always found it frustrating too, because you can really tell Anthony puts a lot of effort into writing some of his Reviews, and that inevitable sweep of shitty jokes always floods his comments sections. There's a sad lack of engagement with genuine thought put behind it.
It's pretty obvious that a huge chunk of the commenters haven't even watched the video they're commenting on, because they're almost always making a point/joke about something that is directly addressed in the video.
the problem is that we are hoping too much maturity in a virtual world that unfortunetly is ruled by children. And the more time passes, the younger they are. And its almost irreversible cuz they think that they are old enough to understand the fcked up world we live in. They don't. Many of us don't! And that scares me the most.
It’s absolutely true. I hate to be that person who jumps to mentioning TikTok, but it feels like the short, ironic, thoughtless comment section style you find over there has escaped and is now everywhere. It’s like it’s better to say something silly and trendy (“go girl give us nothing” “she ate this up I fear” style comments) than to engage and actually say more about what we’re talking about. Time and place for sure but it’s just so tired.
It’s irritating when I sometimes see that stuff come up in UA-cam shorts but all I have to do is scroll past it. I don’t have TikTok and don’t intend on getting it because it doesn’t look like my thing at all. I dont think because there’s a trend on TikTok and UA-cam that means it’s everywhere.
@@jonathanmarkham1998 to be honest if you’re on Shorts or IG Reels it’s going to be largely similar. TikTok is just first in terms of trends. It was funny when it was “TikTok specific” but now it’s everywhere and people are just trying to get funny comments to get tonnes of upvotes and likes instead of having anything meaningful to say lol
Im a professional musician and i think its because in the passed few years lines have been blurred between art and content creation. Any youtuber/content creator is looking to build a community in which everyone jokes around and gets along which equals loyal fans and views. I believe it was the spotify CEO that said musicians should view themselves as content creators. The reality is that being a musician is a job. That musicians take very seriously. But when the audience is expecting some kind of social media, behind the scenes get ready with me type content theyre buying into the person not the music. Thats why I was happy what Chappell roan said
Spotify is such a joke, realling it's ugly fucking head after napster already predated it. Why would I fuck with spotify if it doesn't have everything and piracy can get me everything
This kind of stuff made me miss the art and chaos of forum debates where people talk about stuff they love in internet forums where some discourse could really get long and meaningful. I like that, its some form of sharing opinions and insight that i actually found interesting cause peoplw can write long message nd you will still read it. Right now you can't really form long messages cause there are other people that will literally drop "i aint reading that" and while i believe in the response of "ignore it", it is kinda disheartening if that became the only response you received after subsequent hours
Now that I think about it, that's what rubbed me the wrong way about Laufey's viral social media hits. She writes such beautiful, heartfelt and deep music but people engaged with it only in a meme format. Maybe that's what created cognitive dissonance for me. It's similar with Mitski - and maybe it's because of this that she does not choose to engage on socials and posts only occasionally through her team. But I think as an artist, there's no right or wrong way to do this. Everyone should do what feels authentic to them.
100%- and they bully you for being real because they assume you’d bully them if they were ever real people don’t comment on others comments without the incentive to argue in some way because otherwise how will you get likes? It’s ratio or be ratio’d, we’re not humans talking to each other when we’re both on a stage 😞
It’s really important to keep our targets on the companies that design these algorithms and not the people who joke and engage in this way. They have been trained to engage this way
Couldn’t agree more. Have always hated this stuff. Irony poisoning like this is not only the result of everyone wanting to be the class clown; it also shows a deep insecurity about being vulnerable in front of others. The more that’s around, the more infectious it becomes, until no one in a space can say anything sincere anymore. Would love to see others help stop this slow destruction of social spaces online and in the real world. I’ve had to pull back from friends who have gotten too sucked into this before. Jokes are great, but when you can’t say anything substantive anymore, there’s a huge problem.
I think this sort of effect is a problem with the entire internet nowadays. There used to be way more thoughtful and logical conversations around any given topic than there are today, and the relatively limited amount of genuine and thoughtful discussion is usually buried under tons of comments just making quippy banter. I get where Hayden/Ethel is coming from when she calls it an "irony epidemic", it makes a lot of sense.
See any old video about such topics as politics. Older comments are all serious and relate to the point, but something happens in 2016 that everything just turns into an even shittier version of /pol/, no discourse just irony and blaming
A big part of this is the “we’ve only got five sites on the internet” problem. When there’s a more disbursed, decentralized internet, it’s a lot easier to build meaningful communities and weed out low effort/troll/bad actor accounts. When you have an internet where everything is either on Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, TikTok, or UA-cam, there is no community, there is just throwing out whatever will get the most traction and engagement.
One point is the fact, that internet access and therefore communication increased rapidly. Literally everyone can join in. Back in the day, I only remember 17 years ago, it was big, but not that big in comparison of today. That's one point the way it is nowadays.
6:06 This exact thing has turned me off so many albums in the last 5 years or so. When the praise is heaped so high, it makes it hard for your reaction to be anything but disappointment
This is exactly why I avoid people talking about what they think an album might be before it comes out. Expectation can easily sour the experience of an album.
I’m really happy you’re talking about this Anthony because it’s something that’s been on my mind for a while. I am someone who is an aspiring writer and musician and as I have seen the culture trend this way it has certainly been disheartening at times. I think that it stems from a fear, and a desire to fit in to the crowd. When we see one person making fun of something and being irreverent, if they’re supported by the crowd it makes us all want to join in. It makes us feel good to laugh and point at someone who is maybe overplaying their sincerity or creating art that’s on the sappy and saturated side. But it snowballs into any genuine expression of emotion that is not disassociate apathy being labeled as cringe. And we all also fear being on the other end of those laughs and points, we fear over-expressing ourselves and showing a little too much of ourselves to the world because especially in this age of immediate sharing and spreading, you can so easily be put on blast and have your whole world turned upside down by trolls and people with mean spirits. We’re all so scared of being turned into the next meme that we’re afraid to express ourselves. I think it’s also because as the saying goes, nothing is sacred anymore. Now I’m not religious but I think the idea of sacrament and the sacred is very important. It’s something that you can actively engage with and participate in but it requires work, and it can require a suspension of disbelief and a willingness to participate within the parameters and accepted framework of a system, or in other words, good faith. For many people music is that sacrament and people care about and work for and at the music they love, but it doesn’t take any work or understanding to make fun of something, and even less to glom onto someone else’s joke. It’s easy to say, for example, look at the silly Catholics in their silly costumes with their wafers and wine and they’re so self serious and reverential. It’s so easy to make fun of that, especially if there’s people who are being serious and judging you for not being as serious as them or maybe they’re just being jerks in general, but it’s hard to engage with something earnestly that is outside of our own internal monologue and world view and political stance and music taste. It’s hard to engage with something greater than ourselves and simultaneously treat that thing with due respect and reverence, whether it’s our favorite thing or not. Even if we are to criticize it we can still treat it with due respect. Believe me I love to crack jokes and be a bit of a hater about certain things among family and friends, but especially online I try not to leave a comment if it’s not something positive to say, and if I do have some criticism and it’s something I feel strongly about, I at least make an effort to not just be mocking and sarcastic and rude. Maybe at times that’s what the situation calls for because there’s a bad actor, acting in bad faith, so you get what you give in that case, but that’s not the case most of the time. Mostly it’s people in the comments arguing in bad faith and only mocking and tearing down and trying to make people feel foolish, lesser, ignorant, or just debasing their art or opinion entirely with an outrageous hyperbole or insult or sarcastic joke or whatever the case may be. I guess what I’m saying is just that I think if we had a greater sense of the sacred and the earnest belief in the importance of something that’s bigger than our one experience, then it would be easier for us to accept that sincerity in others, even if their art isn’t something we love or even if it’s something we feel strongly about enough to criticize it. We meet people where they’re at and take their words and art as seriously as they do. That’s not a catch all perfect thing across the board, the world is full of nuance, but I think it’s a good start. Because right now the most socially acceptable reactions to things are hate, obsession, or indifference. And that ain’t healthy, y’all
Very well written. I won't lie, I was initially put off my how long your comment was, but I decided to read it, anyway. It only took three minutes for me to do so, too, and it was admittedly very worth the read.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 I agree. When it comes to political standpoints e.g. , it doesn't really matter what age you are engaging in. I got called names by over 40 or 50 somethings in a not intelligent way. The point is, do you have the access, interest and capability to get in larger points. Many will fail, regardless of topic or age.
I despise the term "it's not that deep." It is almost always that deep. People are afraid of thinking because the state of our reality is oppressively bleak but should at least respect art by allowing themselves to be vulnerable for it like the artist is being for them.
Whenever I see comments like that, I always just assume they had no depth to begin with, like a puddle on a sidewalk. That's how deep their thinking and approach to life and the humanities devolves to.
This reminds me of the comments people post on Hideo Kojima's page on Instagram. Every time you go to see the comments, it's always the same shitty jokes about feet scans or making their own Metal Gear Solid, and I don't understand how they still find this funny after it's been posted a million times. I mean, I get it, their brains are rotted from TikTok and stuff, but holy hell, it impresses me.
I've discovered your content via the meme reviews. I might be fixated on the humor side of your content because of that, although I also listen to your thoughts and get exposed to new music through your content. It could be nicer to have a more thoughtful comment section, and shitposts that aren't copypasta. I'll try to be a bit more thoughtful in my likes and comments.
I'm glad you brought attention to her post because what she said did really resonate with me. I always feel a bit embarrassing because I do like to excitedly and genuinely engage with things people make and what they made me think. I've gone in comment sections of channels analyzing music, and it'll bum me out because a creator will form so much potential for really interesting and fun discussion and all anyone wants is to goof or demand the next thing they want the creator to look at. It's never anything personal obvs against people doing this, I've no doubt I've even unintentionally participated in it in the past as well - it's just weird and disappointing to observe the constant brainrot and demand for instant gratification, knowing that social media has no intention of changing and it's affecting us all on such a massive scale.
In my personal experience, I feel very insecure about sharing my deep thoughts on the things I love because of these kinds of situations. I feel very vulnerable, and on the other hand, discussions around art have become quite elitist and not very approachable for people who are just starting to explore new art forms (music, films, books, etc.). Usually, the first thing I encounter when I do this is someone mocking me because they don't agree with my point of view, and that makes me very sad
Please don't feel that way, but it's easier said than done, I'm pretty sensitive myself. Give it to them and leave it as it is. Engage with someone who's insightful or may agree with you. Others can go [...] themselves. Don't let them dictate when or whether you not engage. Theres nothing stupid about taste. I listen to almost everything with a strong stance on rock, metal or many harsh music styles. In my teens I was afraid, I wanted to be in a community. Since I stop giving a damn about anything, I do what I want and that's the way I enjoy the most. My clothing resambles rock/metal mostly, but I'll join gay, rap, r'n'b, techno or metal parties. No one can stop me and neither they should stopping you rooting for anything you like :-)
The late Fredric Jameson called this, forty plus years ago, “the death of affect”. Humour, and specifically irony, is what has replaced it. We sense that if we take anything seriously the world will despise us for what can only be our naivety.
I always thought it was weird to scroll through the comments while listening to you express your thoughts and most of the comments are just like, 'LOL MELON'. I've been watching you since around 2013 across various accounts and I've seen the comments gradually devolve over time.
This is probably down to the bigger picture on the Internet that we're simply in a short attention span era, not to blame solely tiktok or IG reels but its social media apps such as them where people feel more rewarded to see content, comments etc that you can process in 4 or 5 seconds and therefore easier to make a joke or shitpost rather than say or do something informative or mature
The death of sincerity is awful people act like it's cringe to enjoy anything
I still enjoy bath time with my daughter
sincerity
Cringe culture is, ironically, cringe and strips people of their individuality and prevents people from enjoying what they love
“Besides, nowadays, almost all capable people are terribly afraid of being ridiculous, and are miserable because of it.” - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Can’t even spell “sincerity” right we’re so fucked
Edit: They fixed it so y’all can stop replying to me
The old curse of quiet respectful people being invisible because they're quiet and respectful
This fr
this is me ong
Yep.
The amount of times that I’ve written out an entire response only to hover my thumb over the post button and end up deleting in the end, because what am I truly adding to the discourse?
how can y'all watch the whole video and then still leave such a quippy response? this has no substance n also kinda doesnt even make sense with the rest of the video...?
Everyone wants to be the class clown online. It’s anonymous and there’s a reward system. No detention here
Good comparison. Class clowns IRL eventually get removed for disrupting the class. You can't get away with that level of main character syndrome
@@sco145well on one hand it’s cowardice on the other hand a lot of people are scared to put their name to it due to cancel culture and ridicule.
Like you can’t even have a negative opinion anymore…
@@Chicago311zeronobody is canceling fantano comment sections lol
@@fort809 that’s not what I’m saying read what I said. If someone attaches their name to a comment on UA-cam they could lose their job or something in real life. That’s why people don’t say who they are. That’s on one hand on the other hand I’m agreeing with you where certain individuals also use it as an excuse to bully or being jerks. I see both sides.
@@sco145 "main character syndrome." Just shout out some more trendy phrases why don't you. Everyone's their own "main character." theres a difference between self-advertisment, self advocation and just plain narcissisim. Trust me ~ theres something a little more going on than just self-aggrandizement. there is a some picture online floating around where its like "Class clowns at school - Class clowns at home" which might inform you a little bit.
Lets keep in mind ~ class clowns are not something that I can see *really* existing in post-primary education, so we are exclusively talking about children here. Trying to crudely shove everyone you know into whatever pidgeon holes society currently has its eyes on is bound to be reductive and GAY.
Ethel put it perfectly, an “irony epidemic.” Everything is self-deprecating and nihilistic. It feels like we’ve regressed to the “vulnerability is weakness” ideology, as if trying to be serious makes you less of a person. After Liam Payne’s death, there were memes within the hour. A persons life ended and the internet’s first reaction was to make him a joke. And if you called it out for being classless, you were told to “cry about it.”
The line is nonexistent at this point between what can be a moment of humor and a moment of real world dialogue. While the internet has always been gross, we’ve hit a zenith.
It’s like people that say they like art for “vibes,” without contextualizing it any further as to why they like something.
By 2040, all social media will be looked at as the equivalent of smoking cigarettes for your mental health. This will be medically accepted. I’m calling it.
I felt this way when I saw the pictures after Trump was shot in the ear, immediately after it happened people were laughing about how pathetic he looked. I’m not a fan, but it made me a bit nauseous how quickly people can laugh at a picture that has blood in it.
Right on the dot with this one
Yes! I understand that Liam Payne was a horrible person (i.e. abusive towards his ex-girlfriend and texted underage fans) but these people need to understand that what if Liam’s son saw that? You can have your thoughts about someone, saint or sinner, but you don’t need to air it out to the world. The internet needs to learn to keep certain things to themselves.
@@summerzszszI literally never heard of this guy before his death, though I had heard of One Direction. Jc, did he send inappropriate texts to people or are you saying they were under 18 so shouldn't be communicated with at all? I have no context for this comment.
i find posthumous albums to be the only albums people seem to have consistently serious discourse around as if it's the only time people can be bothered to reign in the funny. so many albums deserve deeper conversation and today's internet doesn't hold space for that anymore.
When you put it that way, it feels dystopian and morbid.
Also smaller artists or generally well respected artists like Lupe or smth
There are plenty of places where you can find genuine discourse and critique. That place just isn't on UA-cam. It's the culture of the entire site.
I dunno about serious. Posthumous work often gets at least a mild ratings boost. That's a tad on the unserious side. Or at least unrealistic
Depends on what your definition of "taking art seriously" is. Isn't humor an expression of human enjoyment?
The mere fact that people are interacting with her work AT ALL. Speaks to some level of enjoyment. She's just being an angsty teenager.
Saw her open for Caroline Polachek at RCMH, some obnoxious girl was shouting “YES MOTHER” every time it got quiet, eventually someone in the crowd was like “hey! shut the fuck up!” Such an annoying experience.
Jesus that sounds like a nightmare
At least we have SOME good people out there.
And yes, I am talking about the person who said “Shut the fuck up,”
Do people say that because they lacked that parental figure?
Just being there shows support for the performer(s) both mentally and financially. Being over the top annoying and attention seeking isn’t, that makes you seem more selfish.
I am so sorry you had to endure that. Worse than a dead crowd
What ever happened to a good old fashioned woo? I guess the memes are short enough to yell in a crowd now.
The nerd emoji has done more damage to sincerity than any single phrase or word
Or the phrase “bro is x”
Or "stop yapping"
immaculate glaze
this phenomenon predates the memeficiation of the nerd emoji by years
Yeah at least when I scream the N word you know im being completely 100% sincere, and that makes it good
I saw D'angleo Wallace discuss this as well. I'm glad it's getting some attention from a variety of creators. It must be exhausting to wade through all the silly shit to find some valid feedback or dialogue. I don't blame creators moving to paywall options to sift through the chaff to find some true fans.
hahaha
So being a true fan is only when you interpret the art based on what the artists wants you to? That’s not restrictive at all.
so true i thought the same about a small paywall, even if it’s just $1, because sometimes even half of the audience is professional haters.
And being part part of a “club” makes you more likely to engage at all.
@@Knabtube626Sure, if you engage with any statement with the most negative and cynical perspective, I can see why you might think that. But if you engaged with her post beyond your initial negative reaction, you’d be able to figure out that she’s just asking people to stop hiding behind 15 layers of irony and jokes when they want to express an opinion. It waters down the conversations and feedback to be had with that media when no one is capable of engaging with it beyond superficial jokes.
If you worked hard on something for years (say a memoir about your mom’s death), finally released it to the public, and everyone’s reaction is immediately jokes with no comments on the actual subject matter, how would you feel?
The point you make at around 9:38 is really it for me. I've been watching your videos since around early 2011 and I used to love sharing my thoughts on the records you reviewed or specific criticisms within the video but at this point it just kinda feels pointless because those kinds of comments would just get buried now. It just makes me (and I'm sure many others like me) feel like it's not even worth taking the time to actually engage with the video within the comments.
Everytime I see Fantano's hostility to his fans, and this is not the first time their behavior has been brought up, I feel heard. Just a bunch of obnoxious children trying as hard as they can for their precious internet points. At 10:20 I'm glad he outs them directly.
hey, i just left a comment here like this! i love to talk about music with friends, but i never do it here since i know no one will engage in it... so, since there are more people like you and like me, maybe it's not pointless after all. even if it's buried under jokes, someone can see and engage with it, right?
I had no idea us people existed😮
Spot on
@@pdlkmusic social media is really making clicks and likes the be all end all and it's making everything worse
You can't ever be serious on the internet because someone will make fun of you trying to be serious and you will get ratio'ed.
you might enjoy david foster wallace if you didn't already
You can be as serious about shit as you want. You can't expect the rest of us to care about what you care about. Stop acting like fucking babies. You, this dumb as Ethel Cain, and stupid fucking Fantano.
People don't like you. Deal with it. People don't like me too.... so I deal with it.
Ratio
@@darraghclarke2884lmao
Gen Z is so afraid of being cringe they can't even be authentic, authenticity is only when you're quirky and jokey
The “1,000 views in 2 minutes bro fell off” ones baffle me cuz it’s like “are you not tired?” Lol
Or the "morbin time and morber everywhere" jokes. I swear if anyone uses that it's an indication of someone i should avoid entirely
@@aeoligarlic4024People still use Morbin'?
@@aeoligarlic4024 honestly I still find those jokes kind of funny… oh shit you might have to avoid me now
It's crazy, because they also have to have notifications on to get to a post in under 2 minutes of posting. When it's consistent, it starts getting sad.
Just about any "joke" that follows some kind of template. You see them so much that they are tiresome.
I also hate first comments. At least add something useful to your comment. I know you're excited and feel like you have to do it fast but it's essentially not an actual comment.
What is even the point of commenting if you aren't going to make an effort.
This is honestly really encouraging for me. I usually keep quiet about my thoughts on most UA-cam videos because some channel cultures focus in on inside jokes, cliques, and humor that diverges into topics that don't engage me like the base material that these comments come from. If this is the change we want to put into the community, then I'll start coming out of my bubble and adding in those insights. Time for a change of voice and shift in comment culture.
I feel the exact same way. I read so many comments on multiple platforms from people demeaning creators with humour and think “why would someone take the time to write this”. I think I’m part of the problem because I tend to deflect with humour as well, but I really don’t understand the overall culture of the ‘irony epidemic’ infesting audiences to not engage with material beyond a superficial and deflecting degree. I think I will do the same as you, hopefully we can start contributing more thoughtful insights and positivity into our communities :).
“I ain’t reading allat”
“Zip it up when you’re done lil bro”
“Simp”
“What is blud yappin about”
“Cringe”
“Mid”
“Pop it out lil bro”
“🤓”
“It’s not that deep lil bro”
“Glaze”
“Bro is doing tricks on it”
“Nobody asked”
“Goofy ahh”
“Cornball”
I know there are plenty of other phrases that people spam whenever someone is trying to be sincere, but these are all I could think of right now. I don’t even like saying anything anymore online, because authenticity = cringe. People are so scared of being vulnerable about their opinion nowadays that they just project it onto everyone else, calling them “cringe” and the other phrases I listed above.
And it sucks because oftentimes these are kids. And these kids will grow up to take our place and run the world one day. And they will be parenting future generations, who might further exacerbate this issue even more.
That’s all people comment nowadays it’s cancer
You’re right and I’ve also noticed how people have started co-opting aave and often times overuse it or use it incorrectly and as a black person it does get kinda tiring just seeing it all be watered down into a big joke, after a while it starts to feel like bastardization
I agree but god you sound like 60 😭
"womp womp" is my least favourite one of these. I'm in the older sect of that generation and it saddens me seeing people in pain or being mistreated and the only response people seem to come up with is some kind of variant of "suck it up" or "too bad". Its such a demeaning thing to say to people and the lack of empathy both on the interner and on real life from people is sickening
not to mention half of these are homophobic lol
Suggestion for you Fantano and Ethel: incentivize thoughtful comments by picking a fav. comment and liking, replying, and pinning it to the top. This would likely shift behavior for regular fans/commenters of your videos because people would want the 15 minutes of fame associated with a massively upvoted comment.
That being said - I'm sure that would be a logistical headache, and I've heard it's unwise for creators to read the comments section. Maybe hire some help.
I think this would be a great idea. Creating a reward system for thoughtful, engaging interaction is a great way to incentivize it. Being featured in a video is far more social cred than getting top comment. And I think for a lot of people once you have that little push it would get them over the hump, so to speak, into genuine discussion. Though I'm sure there would be some doing backflips trying to impress Anthony/Ethel.
this is a good idea and I've seen it consistently work with other creators
they mostly read it anyway
Actually genius
I wanted to post the same thing, tbh. On the other hand I completely understand when people claim to never read their comment sections, it can be mindnumbing for sure.
what annoys me even more is the influx of "its not that serious" in the comments when someone DOES choose to engage with art in a more nuanced and serious manner...
the "maybe the curtains are just blue" epidemic of media illiteracy and desperation for likes and approval online has nuked meaningful discussion around art and meaningful art itself at times
And then if you like something then that just means you're glazing. Enjoying things is seen as lame or weird.
@@CPUGaming that is by far the most fucking irritating comment for 2024, it replaced 2022's simp. People made their entire personality the drake-kdot beef.
Ok boomer
aint readin allat bruh
Yeah, a lot of people forget that being fun and being artful aren't mutually exclusive things. I was talking to a friend about the John Wick movies; while I appreciated plenty of things about them, I told my friend that I thought they were really poorly paced, and he immediately told me to "not take them so seriously". I was a little taken back because... I like dumb action movies; one of my favorite movies period is Kill Bill, so I wasn't really taking the John Wick movies that seriously. From a pure entertainment perspective, I found them to have a lot of dead air and meaningless plot points, but my friend took that as me "overanalyzing" an action movie.
I love movies, and it always pains me to see people I know limit themselves like that. There are movies with good actions scenes and a good plot. There are movies that are entertaining and have really great cinematography. It just awful to see people willingly choose restrict what they can like just to be seen as not pretentious.
The fear of vulnerability has definitely reached a saturation point. Circle jerk reddit subs, discord servers created solely as a forum for trolls to screenshot and mock people in other special interest servers who fell for their 'fake sincerity' trolling, alt account after alt account just to let people know 'if I'm too afraid to be genuine here I'm gonna make sure you're afraid too'. I'm in my 40s now and honestly can't connect with anybody online anymore, because I can't understand the callousness.
This is actually my second comment - my first mentioned how it's particularly common (and especially awful) for people to troll sincerity by applying a label for a specific disorder in the pejorative, but my comment got auto deleted due to the term itself. As someone whose daughter has been diagnosed with that particular disorder, in retrospect I realise it's probably (unfortunately) for the best that the word earns an auto-delete.
I've read/watched shounen since I was a kid and the amount of circlejerk subs about the most recent generation of manga ending really destroyed my patience. I'm only 26 but I feel like the people younger than me who never lived through a slightly disappointing ending react in kind of insane ways. MHA got weirdly taken over by cuck and McDonald's memes which was pretty baffling, and I think it speaks to some latent right-wing/incel anxieties more than anything else. Seeing a Redditor say "we're allowed to call out" the author for writing a bad story as if he'd used the N-word was ridiculous, every criticism has to be a fucking fight now.
Ironically they're more invested than most people who just enjoy a show and move on with their life, holy shit.
@@yuza1032 It's like the memes are cover - like there's an actual opinion in there somewhere but if it's expressed under 15 layers of meme or joke the person can distance themselves and avoid being mocked. But it just perpetuates itself.
(being old, I haven't read much manga since Caravan Kidd, Ranma 1/2, Macross Plus - I can't even imagine how different/awful the online fan space would be these days)
That's not to say the manga was better back then or I'm too good for modern stuff, btw, just that online is getting pretty cooked.
@@twoften These days things get really weird because fans will look at raw chapters and hallucinate some insane ending based on machine translation or one rando in the comments who only half understands Japanese. They prejudge and come in with the worst assumptions and there's a culture of people competing for who can spoil something first for attention.
Just put the fries in the bag lil bro
no because this is so fucking true. She is being entirely honest and Accurate as well. It's something that's bothered me for ages now and couldn't articulate it, so I thought I was just legit going crazy because I kept thinking I saw people only making memes and jokes out of everything in music, or movies, or games instead of actually engaging with it or thinking about it at all. It's just easier and better-received to make dumb memes than to actually talk about why you like or dislike something.
mmm u should so fucking truly pick up a legit book so u can sound inelligent.
I agree. I remember when the Barbenheimer came out I criticised it for being insensitive towards the victims and then people kept mocking me for being “soft” and not having a sense of humour. I feel that now we make fun of every tragedy that’s happened in recent memory ranging from 9/11 to the Holocaust. We use humour in everything now that we can’t have any serious conversations about any topics, ranging from Diddy to how we view art and media, it it really frustrates me since I love having conversations about politics, Art and entertainment and I feel that, as an society, we regressed on having deep conversations on anything and as an result, people like Jordan Peterson and Russel Brand are considered “intellectuals” and “truth sayers”.
I also kinda just noticed it now! Crazy. I also realize on every video I immediately look at comments to see what other have thought about whatever content of the video I just watched, as if I need to see someone else's opinion in order to form my own. And these comments are mostly short and without a lot of reasoning, or jokes
Wjat I find most interesting is that this is definitely completely unique to the internet. I have never had problems finding people that could actually interact with the art that we are talking about. I also think it's because we live in such a fucked up, pay check to pay check society. It's difficult to take something like music seriously when your life is falling apart and it is just getting worse
@@mr.dirtydan3338but why take music seriously at all? Its another facet of consumerist society that has zero meaning to the grander stage of life. I'm sure all those deaf people are craving to hear the garbage that most artists put out anyhow. If you cannot go 1 day without music then something is honestly wrong with you.
she's right, sincerity is literally a dying art
i told my friends in earnest a few weeks ago how much i love and appreciate them and because i didn't frame it ironically, they asked me if i was on drugs
i was at a loss for words... and it made me really withdraw for a while, i was embarrassed. and since i engage with art the same way, i withdrew from my hobbies too
this is a real problem
edit: also i responded to those friends with "i'm high on life - yet your whimsy up" lmao
That sucks dude, I hope you find sincere people in your life!!
@@lucian1985 thanks man - they're good folk who care about me though, so i'm they'll come around, im sure
idk bc real friends wouldn’t make you feel like that. i’m sure they “care” but do they cherish your presence? sounds like you need friends that do. and not that you gotta cut them off or anything, just that they may not be your tier 1 friends
I had this same situation with some of my friends a while back, I had invited them to go camping with me and while we were around the fire I told them how much I loved and appreciated all of them and how much it meant to me that they agreed to do this with me. One of them just replied “Awkward.” No one laughed, so it was just that one person, but it really knocked the wind out of me and I was really embarrassed and bummed for the rest of the night.
I can relate to what you are saying here. It's almost as if people are scared to have serious and honest conversations. I've only been around since 1992 but I don't think it's always been this way.
I also notice, at least in the US, that so many conversations reference pop culture or bland consumerism. We need to be able to talk about our emotional well-being and our philosophical views.
Seeing people meow song lyrics at a Billie Eilish while shes trying to sing a an earnestly beautiful song was heart breaking
What the fuck? Why?
@@Noise_floorxx because its a meme, and everyone just has to make everything a joke
The song sucks so no love lost there
People did that to Mitski too. And started laughing at her when she was dancing. I mean, look at most of her comment sections, it's horrible.
that song sucks tho
That’s one reason why I hate modern mainstream movies, like Marvel movies for example. Any scene of genuine emotion always has to be undercut with comedy and when characters have a serious discussion or existential reflection, it can never just breathe without some LOL moment to deflate it.
That always strikes me as though the writers aren't confident enough in their own writing to take it seriously
Yeah it seems like everyone just wants to drop a quirky short comment in anything and everything these days, letterboxd, youtube, literally any social media. I mean it’s funny sometimes but damn can we get some analysis
Nah, cause people don’t want it.
The system is just a catalyst… given her “meta character” I’m not surprised at all about this, would be more surprised if this did not occur.
@@raquetdudeYou’re part of the problem you’re allowing this to happen
Absolutely this this and this. Thank you so much for posting this. I have been saying this for years. I am so tired of opening Letterboxd and always seeing the 50 most popular reviews on any film being quirky short comments or quips just because those that post them brainrotted by the internet they think likes on their reviews (that mean nothing) are more important than offering their individual insight and providing substantive review/appreciation/criticism of a piece of art; truth be told, they're probably not interesting or intelligent enough to offer that insight, so they make milquetoast jokes instead, but could they please then get off the app so others can actually offer something interesting for people to read?
Letterboxd is so annoying man every single top review is just a joke
Letterboxd has become very insufferable. it was good while it lasted
I think another issue is that people are scared to voice their opinions because it opens them up to attacks. Humor can be used as a shield.
this is it, ur right, if everything is a joke, you can never be hurt. once you open up, ur prolly gonna be attacked, sincerity is a weakness.
I don't care about being attacked, but I do care about washing too much time or effort on social media, and sincerity does require more time to express than irony n such.
I don't care. I throw it down in the comments, I'll go toe to toe with anyone, anytime.🤷
It’s true since expressing earnest opinions and engaging with art is becoming “uncool” when someone will probably just respond with a nerd emoji.
It’s the death of caring about anything at all, perpetuated seemingly by a growing number of people who care about nothing and are too dumb to understand art at all.
This!!!
people see likes as a social currency, comment sections are just full of top comment jokes that have already been made on previous videos
Yeah. Social media is built in a way that disencourages actual conversation in favour of hunting for likes by any means necessary.
Or even the same exact video.
So if you got ratioed on this comment, you wouldn't mind right...
Ironically I've had better conversations on Reddit despite the stereotype. My theory is that the communities I'm currently in are "dead" with only a few hundred people at most active in them at once. Most posts get comments in the tens at most so the hunger to get the most interactions isn't there because it isn't possible to blow up. Once I look at more popular communities then I see more ragebaiting, interaction baiting and less sincere discussions.
I've seen this on UA-cam with channels that don't get a lot of views. But you still get a lot of "bot" comments.
@@lemon_key You are part of the problem. Likes don't matter. I'll disagree with a 10k liked comment if they're wrong, fuck a ratio that shit isn't real.
It’s also worth nothing that Hayden’s first album covers some really personal and serious themes of religious and sexual abuse aswell as having a lot of political and other commentary, and seeing it be reduced down to “lol cannibalism” “lol amish girl” must be frustrating when you’ve put your all into what is an absolute work of art.
I hope people actually engage with her upcoming album more seriously. And yes on the deeper topic it is so frustrating how this community and most others online are allergic to sincere conversations. I’ve left paragraphs like this on your reviews before and recieved the classic teenage boy type “L” comments etc or whatever other memes are here. And it makes me feel embarrassed to even bother trying when I am apparently surrounded by what I have to assume are mentally stunted people incapable of having a complex thought, even if they try to claim it’s just defensiveness of not wanting to be vulnerable etc.
this this this!!!
The wrong people became fans of her when she got (unwillingly) catapulted into the Tiktok pop song stan culture world. Theirs's "fans" shitting on her underground friend features, specifically Wicca Phase who originally helped her get seen and she sees him as a big influence. Just so many kids treating her like she's Sabrina Carpenter or something and she is absolutely not of that world or wants to be part of that world. It's just so obnoxious to see, my partner is the bigger fan of her and we watched her go from cool underground person associated with other people we both like to being torn apart and misunderstood by obnoxious Tiktok kids who don't know a single thing about where she came from.
This reminds me of an interview with the director of Wonder Woman- the reporter asked, "This may be a cheesy question, but what do you want people to take away from this movie?" And right off the bat, you're thinking, "What is cheesy about wanting to know what the director's intent is? Why would you start such a question with a fall-back? So if they say your perfectly normal question is dumb, you can just agree and say you knew it was and never get an answer?"
She (Patty Jenkins) responded with the following, "Did you say cheesy? Cheesy is one of the words banned in my world. I’m tired of sincerity being something we have to be afraid of doing. It’s been like that for 20 years, that the entertainment and art world has shied away from sincerity, real sincerity, because they feel they have to wink at the audience because that’s what the kids like. We have to do the real stories now. The world is in crisis."
Now, I am not saying Wonder Woman is 'what the world needed' by any means. I'm not even saying it was that good of a movie, just that I've noticed, at least in films I've watched in the past decade or so, that they are so afraid to ask for an emotional response from their audience that they don't allow them any time to respond. There's always a punchline or an action sequence to tear you out of a moment where you should be sitting there and thinking about how nice it would be to have a real person care so much about the world that they'd put themselves in danger for it on a daily basis. Or how much you love your partner because they'd never abandon you. Or how important our children are for our future and how messed up it is that we are putting them into a world designed to make them fail.
It's so much easier to dismiss emotion than it is to sit in it. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to enjoy simplicity, either, but it's as though the option to have deeper thought spurned by our media has become nearly unavailable, and what thought-provoking media there is, we've basically been trained to respond to with neglect.
Good take
This is why I really respect pieces of media like Everything Everywhere All At Once, the discography of King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard, a lot of Doctor Who episodes, etc.
These things know that they're weird and stupid, but they choose to embrace it fully instead of just constantly making deprecating or "self-aware" quips every 10 minutes. I don't mind this type of humor done sparingly, but it can give the impression that the artist is insecure about expressing their art. It's almost like the artist has to constantly apologize to the audience
"... they are so afraid to ask for an emotional response from their audience that they don't allow them any time to respond. There's always a punchline or an action sequence to tear you out of a moment..."
I think you managed to succinctly explain in a short paragraph what I couldn't quite put into words about what's turned me off about a lot of media as of late.. I'll use Thor: Love and Thunder as an obvious example of a tonal mess. Heaven forbid we have a sincere moment and let a scene linger for impact, need to throw in a gag and cut to the next one!
South Park was the original progenitor of this anti-sincerity movement imo, but I wholeheartedly blame Joss Whedon and Marvel for the incessant nudge-winking that seems mandatory in movies nowadays because they don't expect the audience to actually suspend their disbelief.
@@HeckYep In fairness I think the MCU was (initially) actually somewhat good at pulling this off, it's just all the copycats that started using quippy, self-deprecating humor as a crutch rather than an occasional comedic style that made it worse
Fantano comment sections are consistently one of the least funny internet spaces in the past five years.
That's internet spaces in general, across the board. They are consistently not funny and either incredibly cringe and moronic or completely toxic and hateful.
Find a "good" space and watch the process unfold until it becomes one of the above. It happens all the time.
@@johnniewolf133 That's a fair point, and definitely something aggravated by UA-cam comments as a medium for actual conversation (vs Reddit, forums, etc) but I do think it's more apparent in Needledrop and Fantano comment sections than most in the music critic space.
lowestony commondenominatano
Yeah but compare to a lot of big gaming channels like Penguinz0 or Xqc, Fantano's comment section looks revolutionary.
Edit: Charlie's comment section got better nowadays but 5 or 4 years ago, it's basically a meme thread like here on Fantano's channel. I feel like a lot of other channel's are also moving on from those types of comments. While Fantano's stays about the same and xqc's are now making fun of "whales" or just straight calling him an idiot.
Irony poisoned internet addicts who can only communicate ironically through tired and rote memes because they have absolutely nothing of their own to contribute.
2 thoughts:
1) the lack of sincerity has become pervasive beyond music. For example, in movies the lack of sincerity is being analyzed starting somewhere in the 2010s. There's a phrase that describes it "that just happened". A bunch of movies instead of leaning into sincerity, will wink to the audience and say something like "that just happened" or make pithy remarks instead of respecting the audience.
So it goes beyond music. The culture in general is going hyper-ironic. I guess it's not cool to be sincere or something.
2) as far as Reddit and even UA-cam comments, so many times a comment will be deleted that it disincentivizes people from taking the time to make meaningful And thoughtful comment. Especially on Reddit where whole posts get deleted so often that I hesitate to take time to spend my time actually thinking about a good comment
That surely has an effect
Reminds me of the classic Key and Peele "awkward" sketch where Peele just keeps saying "awkward" and turning to their friends every time Key gives his thoughts about a movie or TV show. Then at the end Key grabs Peele and demands he offer a genuine opinion about literally any topic, and Peele has an emotional breakdown lol.
You'd hate to move to England, my guy
It's the cultivation of an entire world of fake people.
Right and to add onto to that truth of epicly needed back world sincerity lol this comments section is so true and right even Anthony and the assaulted artist by all this ass ass ass assault ass people be just having off and not on off enough around each other to even let another man woman or child or who or whatever even if a dancing frog nearby happens to need tooo ohhhh I dunno maybe enjoy a nice sandwich or something at list I dunno like
seriously¿
Though like why do people even think it’s appropriate or necessary to not even have the granted consent to share openly hate based opinionated purposefully bastardized hate like that all pretending like they’re even evoking the true holy wholy ho whoa a moly word (supposed¿) of a mightier than though reverse hate based ecenomjc even based system like that for?
Like collectively common with all the come ons world and just stay blessed kind and or maybe at content happiness wise to the best of your ability at least when it comes to sharing an emotional or passionate based opinion everybodah like lol cmon now y’all all be chill cool like loll fr😅🩶🥸
not just "a bunch of movies", marvel slop. There's been lots of good films that got released since.
I'd also blame click baity crooks like cinemasins who don't know shit about the medium and just walk all over the suspension of disbelief to cry how "DA CHARACTER DIDN'T DO (thing that would ruin the story of the movie) SO MOVIE BAD" when they don't get things like "character flaws" or "plot devices"
I've been experiencing the same thing with my friends, even. Some of them can't take me seriously or stop making jokes even when the subject is heavy and important, and it just pisses me off. I don't like nor have social media aside from Telegram, Whatsapp (for work) and UA-cam, and yet those same memes keep being regurgitated to me when I'm trying to open up sincerely about why I left therapy and decided to never go back. Like, please. This is a group friend chat. I've known you for more than 10 years. I know you're funny. Can we please take this thing seriously just once? And when I mention my frustration, then "it's not that deep/serious!"
I like youtube bc it's the only place online in which a paragraph isn't seen like a wall of text. People fight and can't find common ground bc they don't have enough attention span to engage in regular discussions online anymore. Makes me sad.
It's so real, just stop joking around you fuckin morons It's starting to get plain rude. I feel you, man.
the whole 'its not that deep bro' phenomenon has ruined so many online spaces
People who talk about how things aren't that deep are just afraid of going deep.
ppl take ts too seriously though lmao
@@finallydanyou are part of the problem
@@Jukestar the floaties their mommies put on them don't let them go any deeper, they think everything *is* that shallow
@@finallydan engaging with art beyond surface level is not taking anything too seriously. it's what you're supposed to do.
Back when I was posting my art, I remember the comment that got to me more than any other was "Now do [something else]". I got it all the time, and it always contributed to this feeling of nothing I made ever being enough. Like I was just a dog having requests barked at them, if that makes sense. It'd be so much different if it was ever a compliment followed by 'I'd love to see you do [thing]' or some variant, but no. Now do this. Now do that. Do more thing. Churn out more content.
It got bad enough (along with other complications) that I just stopped posting, and I wasn't even that popular. 🙃 Makes me miss the deviantART days where people were at least slightly more thoughtful.
I've noticed this with art accounts too. I think it can definitely be overwhelming this is valid for sure. we deserve to have our art actually engaged with.
Now do goku
I feel like people are so accustomed to seeing things tailored for them, like Anthony mentioned with the comments, only it's all the content online. They get this sense of entitlement and immediate gratification. Social media has ruined people's attention spans, patience, understanding that not everything is for them, etc. I have seen this as a common conplaint in the art world, along with people never being happy with art if it doesn't exactly fit what they want. Instead of shutting the f up sometimes, they feel the need to criticize a real person.
@@b__c7538Do a barrel roll!
I can see Tyler talking about this subject in his upcoming album. His latest song Noid, Tyler expresses his distain for the celebrity status he now finds himself in. Dealing with prying eyes of fans and people looking to take advantage of him. He’s discussed this topic on wolf before in colossus, where he interacts with obsessive fans. This isn’t the only song but it shows Tyler willing to call out his fans out and incite reflection or change.
I bet you that Tyler will get universal praise for this when chapel roan is saying the EXACT SAME thing recently. (I love both of them btw)
Yeah agreed and im so hyped for that album.
If only he made good music....
@@hansmemling7605you thought Brat was bad. What do you know about good music?
@@ultimadum7785 Chappell roan is getting universal praise....
Yes, yes, and yes! Whenever you try to talk or even enjoy the art that a person has made, you are instantly bombarded with apathy and sometimes just straight-up hate. If I try to talk about a manga I enjoy, or an album I like, in deep-level detail I am instantly hit with "you're yapping", especially in Internet culture.
We need to normalize caring about things!
There is a toxic romanticization of nonchalance or apathy in today's Internet that makes it seem like it's lame to care about things. This will eventually lead to people not caring about things at all. These people are suffering from a severe lack of media literacy, and they think that looking into a series farther than the surface level is cringe-worthy or undesirable! Caring about what you love and wanting to share that passion should be celebrated, not ridiculed or disrespected.
It is one of the things that makes you human!
have you ever considered that people have different preferences than you? just because some people dont like to analyze art too deeply or dont find enjoyment in peeling back a bunch of layers of bullshit symbolism doesnt mean they dont enjoy art, or they arent "human"
I just like art that speaks to me through raw emotion. When I look at van goghs starry night for example im not sitting their trying to think to myself "hmmmmmm what does this represent" instead it just communicates to me on a raw, emotional, level, without needing a bunch of symbolism or whatever bs. I personally hate how much art has become solving some sort of puzzle rather than just communicating via emotions.
and its not just simple pieces i enjoy. large classical works in my opinion convey that same feeling. when i listen to a piece by beethoven i can just *feel* the sadness or whatever hes trying to convey. i dont need analysis and thats what makes it so potent
@@adgiijnadgopionagduiopn2o2222 I never claimed that they aren’t human and that it's perfectly fine if they choose not to engage deeply with art. However, it’s important to recognize that different art forms convey meaning in various ways. In my previous post, I was specifically addressing art that calls for deeper analysis, like manga, music, or intricate storylines. A simple rant about societal issues wouldn’t make storylines enjoyable or engaging. Instead, you need to incorporate symbolism so that viewers can appreciate it while also drawing moral lessons or deeper meanings from the experience.
And as you said, it's about preferences. You may enjoy art through raw emotion, while I enjoy art via deeper meaning and analysis. And what I said was that caring about art was a thing that makes you human, not the sole reason. A person who doesn't care about or enjoy art isn't going to turn inhuman because of their preferences.
And if you don't do analysis on art, and just take it at face level, then you are ignoring the artist's possible meaning, context, and technique.
Sometimes people do deserve to be shut down if they are being cruel, sexist, racist, etc. I feel like those comment will make me laugh in that context. However, It seems like people would rather just be mean rather than form a coherent reply, even to nuanced opinions. It's okay to engage in civil debate.
The South Park fan mentality
I've given up looking at comments on theneedledrop channel because they are 90% copy-paste unfunny jokes. Unfortunately other comment sections aren't much better
This comment is the 🐐 no 🧢
There's rarely anything worth reading in any comment section. Yet I come down here anyway.
If it was called “melon paste” it wouldve gotten an 80
@@amorpaz1😐
@@peabrain6872 fitting username, you seem like you don't come up with original ideas
Hey man,
Been watching you since 09, first time commenting. I just wanted to say I appreciate you taking the time to address this trend. Personally, I find it difficult not to fall into the trap of vilifying the fact that people can have a sense of humor, while also noting that post ironic humor has become so generalized and abused of as a resource on the internet, that it may no longer be a choice and/or source of enjoyment for many people, but rather might be furthering dissociation from real discourse, that's both sincere and affected.
While the artist showed her anger towards the issue, it might be helpful to remember that people that are chronically online are also chronically alone. Joking about and belittling the work of other people might be the only means to get some sense of self worth back for some.
True. Even tho many good things have come from the internet, I believe the world would be so much better without it. At the same time it's not like it solves every problem. Basically Tabloids, TV has been doing the same thing to a degree, showing the world through a subjective lens. Like if you watch the news 90% of it is something bad happening.
Yeah so they're toxic basically
The solution to your problem is to literally just go outside.
This is a great way of phrasing it. Unfortunately, the solution isn't always just to do [insert simple task], as for many this has been plaguing them for years, even when they do the "right" things they feel nothing is important in life, that they're just waking up and waiting all day to go back to sleep; humor can be all they really have to keep going when taking life seriously feels akin to giving into hopelessness. It's extremely understandable on both ends and I can grasp the frustration of yearning for sincerity, but also the need to distance one's self from the vulnerability and darkness within that comes with that.
@dankbonkripper2845 You cant just release your album “outside” Dumdum.
It’s inherently online.
I roll my eyes now whenever someone says "what is blud yapping" or "cringe" or anything else to that effect. It's almost like they're actually proud of not being able to partake in a discussion. It makes me not want to talk about anything online in turn because what's the point of talking to a brick wall. I get it's mostly just kids having fun but it's getting harder to find people who are passionate about a subject and want to have a discussion about it. It's nice to read all these comments and realize I'm not alone in this thinking.
Why do you think they're not partaking in the discussion just because they use a short-hand to say "what you're saying has no significance" but it's weird to talk like George Washington? You can of course want to engage with people by writing a more thoughtful response but the gist of it would still be "You're wrong".
When you say i aint reading all that, it literally means you dont wanna partake in the convo... are you stupid or something?@@kaingates
@@kaingates what are you yapping about
@@kaingatesbro saying your not reading anything the person has to say literally means you dont want converse. Are you stupid or something?
You are yapping a bit. In the internet there are more spaces than ever before for any particular circle you want to end up in.
Maybe you just need to find new circles.
10:13 for the past 3 months, EVERY SINGLE MUSIC VIDEO i go to has the same top comment: “If you didn’t come from TikTok, you’re allowed to like this comment” and it is so annoying that this inescapable comment gets 80k likes every music video you go to nowadays.
Thank you for this! There was another creator that put out a video recently pointing out that if everything is "just a joke" or people are being "ironic" all of the time, how is any experience being taken thoughtfully or sincerely? And after stepping back, I realized that was 98% of what I had read in comments in the past 10 months. This is inspirational to try pushing back against that! Thanks Anthony
Who was this video by? Or what’s the title please and thanks
@@adamm9235 I've been trying to find it but I'll dig through the yt history more
I miss acting like a human being with emotions.
When did you stop?
@@doozledumbler5393 When I dissociated from trauma. It seems like everyone is dissociated nowadays. We're wasting our time being afraid of reality rather than embracing it.
@@eryn857not realy
@eryn857 I would argue that humor can not only be one of the most powerful coping mechanisms, but also one of the most delightful forms of self expression and often a very authentic demonstration of interpersonal closeness and appreciation through shared humor. The problem I think is that some people are unable to suspend it or turn it "off", and many (particularly those who are younger and have experienced less emotional growth) are still learning the concept of "time and place", and occasionally will channel it in a way that seems mean or vindictive at worst (and immature at best). Still, it pains me to see that some only see humor as a way to cope (which it can be, don't get me wrong), and not a genuine way to be connected to others and to enjoy life more fully.
@@Lil_Yuri Humor can be a powerful coping mechanism as well as a way to form bonds, but I don't think many people are actually using it to cope. I think we reflexively use it to deflect away hard and difficult conversations that make us feel uncomfortable. Being the first generation to grow up on the internet has really thrown us into deep waters and we never really learned to form or value those connections that we're now missing in order to stay afloat. Conversations like these are important to start the healing process where we can learn to properly navigate parasociality and rage baiting without feeding into it. Then we can pass it to the younger generation and they'l be better off than we were.
theneedledrop review comments are part of the problem:
- you would have given a 10 if it was 'To Pimp A Butterfly' joke
- so you give X artist a X but X artist an X?
- damn anthony you didnt need to give it an X just because...
literally please shut up
No. You shut up
“Thank you for giving me my opinion on this album”
all i see is certain fruit related jokes
The problem is you'd need to mass mobilise this sort of thing as being cringe before anything would stop. People do it because it's most popular, and the power balance is with them. More people wanna be stupid then put thought into what they say.
Exactly if UA-cam is gonna change anything they should remove comment likes or bring dislikes back…
I’m so glad you touched on this, this is the first needledrop video I’ve seen where the comments aren’t 90% brain dead melon jokes
I think the curse of the "irony epidemic" is a real thing. There are so many people my age who know absolutely nothing but are convinced that they know everything and so any art they don't understand is simply just beneath them and they refuse to acknowledge its merits. Twitter is the worst place of all, everyone tries way too hard to be the loudest in the room and just "dunk" on shit. It's easy to write something off with a joke when you're too lazy to engage with it thoughtfully.
Idk that might just be part of being young. Unfortunately the problem is nobody seems to want to mature anymore.
It’s not even just an online issue either. Sometimes I try to engage in serious and genuine conversations about the things I love with irl friends. Probably 90% of the time, it’s met with the words “mid” “cringe” or “too long”. I can talk to a pal who watched the same show for example and the only feedback I will get is jokes and dismissals. It’s so boring.
Irony epidemic goes insanely hard she could make something with that
Yeah the “irony epidemic” is very real, and I admit I struggle with serious engagement with things fairly often. This is because the world can be a nightmare, and is based around greed and exploitation by a small ruling class that is currently destroying the planet that contains all known life in the universe, so the engagement or responses to anything serious, like different art forms, will usually be to joke or dismiss any seriousness in order to avoid thinking about the horrors of our society
"Hating" being the default form of engaging with anything online, might've been even worse in the pre social media, Internet 1.0 days of neckbeard dominance. The majority of the neck beard nurrds had no sense of humor nor chill, with matching, so you'd get long-winded walls of neckbeard pseud-speak one-upmanship just to be the one to say "THIS SUKKS, I HATE IT!" in the most convoluted way.
I've grown up my entire life in an irony poisoned internet. For me, this is the standard, humor is the only way to engage with media in any way, and it's a contest on who gets to be the funniest. I've never lived in a time where serious discussion or genuine thoughts were being shared in open online spaces, and it still feels odd to think about. I think the reason this "epidemic" is spreading so quickly is because the internet is just so much more popular with children, and it's growing rapidly. That's how it's presented, as a playground, and you can't really expect thoughtful conversations in a playground
and here I am liking my own comment trying to make it be seen by as many people as possible, goddammit
@@thefanfinfulo i see it, and i resonate hard. i wish there was more nuance, more areas of grey in a black-and-white world. im in total agreement, though i do get it, people use social media as a form of escapism from when life feels boring, or in worse cases, troubling and painful. i feel like the time will come when we’ll find those more sincere spaces
I think you overestimate the amount of children doing this but the playground analogy works, if the place has the reputation of a playground people go there to play and then that spreads and influences the perception and makes a feedback loop.
@@thefanfinfulo well it worked, didn't it? :3
You know, I remember the internet before this phenomenon, and to be honest the idea of someone growing up in an era where you can call the internet a "playground," is absolutely 100% fucking horrifying. It's way too accurate in how the internet has gradually catered/marketed to younger and younger people, and how the overall perception of the people you meet has become.
This phenomenon is especially present on Letterboxd. I still love the platform and have found users that post very considered and sincere reviews but when you look at the top rated reviews for any given movie, the vast majority are just one line jokes or shit like “she ate and left no crumbs”
Agreed. I've been consistently using Letterboxd since 2018, and though I've had maybe 1 or 2 thoughtful reviews receive some love and added discourse, it's usually my jotted down, pithy reviews that get read and liked
Rateyourmusic comment boxes too 🙄
Same with Goodreads reviews to a lesser extent, especially if it's a 1-star review.
Same on Steam. A well thought out review will get a dozen likes, meanwhile “nobody reads reviews, so I’ll just use this to say I’m gay” gets an ungodly amount of engagement.
Oh yeah I just commented the same thing
Good video, I agree.
The one thing I dislike about leaving comments or suggestions is the fact that it's not ever noticed or "people don't really care" circles around in my head.
Sometimes, I just leave a comment anyway. Rarely.
As an artist myself, it's honestly a joke, it goes nowhere, but the fact that you keep doing it, it's bound to connect with someone somehow. It's hard to get to know your audience and what they want.
I agree with feeling like it’s not even worth commenting most the time. I rarely comment on anything because I notice I start checking the likes for validation, “ it’s been a day and no one liked it I shouldn’t have even said it.”Online interaction has conditioned me to that feeling so I just avoid it. It’s something you can get better at though. I’ve made some friends recently that actually listen and care for what you’ve saying instead of listening for a place to come in with a joke and I’ve noticed I allow myself to be more open, even with people I don’t know.
“Its not that deeep!! 😭😭😭” -The terminally online brain’s reaction upon being told to stop and give an opinion on something without copy/pasting the same response over and over
Yes, I wish influencers would bring back the long lost art of The Lurk. It'd eliminate tons of the brainless parroting
If anything, not even a water body might seems that deep, until you step in and realize that maybe that pool was way deeper than you expected.
Well here's the thing, why do they even need to share their opinion to begin with? Most people's opinion on art, media, etc doesn't really extend past "I like that" or "I didn't like that" - and that's perfectly OK. But it seems like the internet has foremost fostered a culture where sharing your opinion on every new movie, on every cultural event, on every tragedy is incredibly valued and a must, and suddenly you have Sandra from Winnipeg writing three paragraphs about Erdogan usurping the Turkish elections after reading a headline about it on Facebook. I have to think this toxic culture of irony - and it is a very toxic culture, I despise it - is in part a counter culture response to this phenomenon.
@@AA-wq5sm theres a lot of performative sincerity, and maybe some of the sub mental "jokes" are response to that, but most of it seems to come from a place of genuine incuriosity, and actually kind of hostility to the concept of engaging with anything on any deeper level than drinking a soda or taking a shit. Its ur-consumer culture, like opting out of engagement, everything just part of some chemical diet injected in you as you march in a line, this increasingly unfunny caveman grunt reflex of memes is the only language some people feel comfortable speaking and they resent anyone does anything else
@@iamantieverything87The majority of people in the real world wouldn’t even know what a meme is or what that word means.
An even smaller minority actually post that stuff online.
I think a mountain is being made out of a molehill here.
You are genuinely right about that group of people. It’s sad but ultimately doesn’t matter that much. It’s their loss if they want to be like that.
Honestly the Geordie Greep comment sections are a good example of this. Guy is releasing genre bending Latin esque jazz rock and all the comments are just ‘oh he be greepin’
Because of memes like "Glup Shitto" I thought Geordie Greep was yet another fake artist joke people were trying to make
Maybe the problem is expecting to read well-thought out analyses in comment sections on generalist social media platforms with small text fields and no formatting. That's never been the case. Go to blogs or forums instead.
Genuinely excited to see more of Geordie Greep in the future and I 100% agree on this
As someone else said in the comments of this video, everyone wants to be the class clown first. And in order to get the joke out fast enough, they have to dumb it down to a shitty catchphrase to type out fast enough to get likes when the video gets uploaded in the first minute. Any nuanced discussion in music comments will almost always be buried.
exactly. geordie released an album that spoke to me on a level that very few albums ever have and it feels like I can't share that with anybody.
I have to agree, we have entered post-ironic hell. I feel like half this shit isn’t even funny anymore you need sincerity and irony for irony to be funny. It’s like the ying and yang. We’ve entered a universe where everything is ironic and a joke. I feel like this is why comedy movies have really been on the decline these days. Why do we need comedy movies when everything in our lives is ironic and or a joke? I really like 90s emo music because there is a certain rawness and sincerity that you just can’t seem to find in most mediums these days.
I think that's a good point you made about irony needing sincerity; and with you bringing up comedy movies- I actually really don't like watching comedy movies myself and not because I'm fucking pretentious but it's just like, I could easily waste my time scrolling through social media for thoughtless humor if I wanted to. Why would I then spend money going to the theater for the same thing? It would have so much more of an impact and it would incentivize me to want to see it if the movie had some sort of sincerity behind the humor. But sometimes I see some comedy movies that legit are just like vines and it's sooo bad LOL and just kinda meaningless ig? It feels like -- especially since I live in the US and so capitalism yayy and over-consumption etc. -- everything is just designed to entertain, but that's it. Nothing more. And I think that's why I resonated so hard with your point about irony needing sincerity. Just because you're making something to be funny, doesn't mean that you can't be genuine too. It's not an either/or situation.
The real question for me is if it's even worth trying to engage anything with a focus towards mostly sincerity online, or should we save such efforts for our engagements in the real, offline world?
even modern day "good comedy" like smiling friends are conpletely irony poisoned to hell and are essentially incapable of telling a straightforward joke with a punchline. everything has to be anti humor or an inside joke or a reference.
I don't really see how its other people's business how
Somebody chooses to enjoy something
The fact that what's considered 'peak' rock is maneskin and nothing more is kinda sad
I actually agree with this. Everything is turned into an attempt at making the funniest comment, and it's really killing discourse. Even worse, it's not usually the unique joke that rises to the top. Fantano vids are a great example: It's usually a safe bet the top comment is something along the lines of "Great review but you really didn't need to say *politically incorrect thing vaguely related to reviewed content*."
And often if you're the guy who gets in depth, people will even shit on you for it. "Bro its not that deep" type replies. It's seen as cringe and weird to analyse things. I miss the old internet where this was less the case - where people wanted in depth convo.
Agreed. That’s one of my biggest issues with contemporary art. No one knows how to genuinely engage with it anymore.
“Chronically online” and its aftermath
That and also people are “like” hungry and the social media space encourages even troll behavior now. The gloves are off and people would rather be mean then engage in the material.
Social media space has always encouraged troll behavior, Same as how gamer spaces have been toxic since they're inception. Stop trying to act like this is a new phenomenon
im an Australian youth, and while i was in highschool not a single boy could speak without using irony and jokes and sarcasm. girls too but especially boys. i was the subject of bullying (cause ofc) but most bullying was insulting you as a joke, or complimenting you in an extremely sarcastic tone. that experience plus me being autistic means i crave genuine conversation basically at all times, even though i catch myself slipping into irony.
its dissociative
Australia is a factory of idiocy
Real shit man, that's the culture now and its really not healthy. It would've been hard since you're autistic and I apologise on their behalf for your mistreatment 💜💜💜
That's real shit man. It's the culture now and it's really disappointing. Being autistic would've been difficult for you and I apologise for the things you had to deal with
That's why I loved being online 25 years ago. This was a place where people didn't have to mingle, they could just talk. Keep fighting.
I'm American but i had the same experience growing up. As a boy if I ever said I liked something, I would be called gay
i remember back then there was a lot of this irony poisoning in the death grips fanbase. turning one of the most unique and groundbreaking post-modern art projects into a haha funny meme. it's only gotten worse with time sadly.
It made no sense. What's the joke? It makes it seems like Death Grips fans are all irony poisoned weirdos.
When I saw them live I got the sense a lot of people were there just for the meme
But you can't take the internet as the end all be all of discourse. People seem to honk that the internet is an accurate representation of our society when it couldn't be further from the truth
Same with Swans. Slint is fortunately pretty untouched, but man the Swans fanbase is insufferable. I'll take pretentious pseudo-essays on the band over memes any day and that's saying a lot
"why is this homeless black man screaming at me 😂😂"
you and ethel can do your part though, pin introspective comments, ask deeper questions, prompt people to comment specifiically, shoutout the comments you wanna see more of?? like yeah the internet doesnt incentivise it but theres hella easy stuff u could do
I think people are generally afraid to engage with sincerity because there's always that one person who's rolling in and ripping it apart (at the very least). Not everyone is cut out to defend their positions because, IRL, it's just not required. People have opinions and that's that.
Online, however, you better have your shit tight because there's a preternatural jackboot lore warlock doing the dance of 1000 knives ready to carve you to ribbons - and they brought their acolytes!
Better to drop a one liner and live to laugh another day, I guess.
Memes provide people with a template for humour, it feels like chronically online humour is the template rather than humour
i feel like the turning point i noticed is when people started treating a comment section like a group discussion. they stopped talking to the content creator and as a result it became like a lunch period in middle school. everyone’s talking amongst themselves
lunch period is 100% spot on- we’re here to get the group to laugh, not to engage in human discussion. If you’re too real, you’re cringe, and I hate that.
@@gunz-ahimbo yep. i see it all the time on tiktok with massive creators. everyone in the comments is saying “__ never misses” or “i don’t know why ___ does this” like why can’t you speak to them directly. it feels like social media has become an exhibit for people to provide opinions on strangers who they don’t know
@@47halide it's so mindboggling when there's DOZENS of comments of people saying the SAME exact thing
If the creator doesn't respond to comments, why not address the rest of the commenters instead? At least that way a conversation gets going. I don't think it's all that surprising with bigger channels.
I think this might be one of the biggest problems in online and irl discoure (of all kind), a problem that cannot be underastimated. I see it everywhere all the time. Lots of people only pay attention to things when these things are quick, funny, simple. Every discourse seems polarized to me, simplified to its core. It's gonna stupidi-fy and simplify everything and it will be a biiig mess. I guess mom was right about social media...
I don't tend to engage much beyond listening because I can find it hard to get a decent discussion going. When you looked at Rolling Stone's list of disappointing albums, I was going to comment that Summer in Paradise by The Beach Boys or St. Anger by Metallica should have been in there instead - but I didn't bother because I'm aware the responses would have been just attempts at quippy humor or snide comments about my choices - and that pushes me away from ever bothering to comment.
If it helps, I think your choices of albums for the list make perfect sense, though I’m coming from the perspective of having only seen the Trainwreckords video on either album and not being a huge fan of either band
That Rolling Stones list was so dated despite coming out in 2024. Hardly any albums in the 21st century despite goldmines you mentioned like St Anger, or at least more notable examples people care about in 2024.
@@goldenstarmusic1689 agreed
I feel like I’m the only person ever who liked St. Anger lol
@@Noise_floorxx nah there’s others, apparently the Metallica subreddit has a “weekly St. Anger defense thread”, and I’ve heard some are into the more lofi feel cause it’s a less commercial version of the band to them. I’m not sure where I would recommend finding other St. Anger enjoyers since I’m pretty casual with music discourse in general and I generally don’t recommend Reddit as a site worth using it; but there are definitely other people who enjoy the album and I hope you can connect with them someday :)
Also, I think St. Anger the track is catchy
I use to review games for about 15 years. And What I noticed going from the magazine era to the web is how quickly readers/viewers went to the score. Dozens of hours, notes, arguing with my fellow writers only to see the response "7.5? Why so low?"
Also, the ruining of a 1-10 scale. A 7.5 means you think the game was solid, playable, and worth picking up for I would assume a sale of 20%. But to most people, anything less then a 9 means you genuinely hate it.
Yeah, this goes for any scaling system. With albums, books, movies. Some of my favorite shows, games, etc. have several problems and I would not consider giving them anything above an "8". But some things I have moderately enjoyed, no notes, are nearly perfect "10" games to me. Basing how good something is based on a number, and then comparing those numbers to other things, does not work. It is not that simple.
@@dankbonkripper2845 Could be completely wrong here, but part of me wonders if the American grading system has something to do with that too. Some people I know are genuinely shocked when I say 6 means decent and 7 means good. I'm SO over "anything below 60% is an F".
@@cng507 Above all of that, a great deal of people would rather see a score for a thing they've been primed to love/hate (confirmation bias). Rather than actually reading and understanding why the grade is the grade.
But I do think the average grading system probably does play a part in how people see scores. Which is why I do champion the handful of outlets that moved away from scores/grades all together.
@@bigboy44110 Agreed, tho I have a math brain, so I still use grades when discussing quality of music, movies, etc.
Look at any Mitski comment section. Any black midi comment section. Now take a look at what happened during their concerts. Less and less fans took them seriously and started ruining the shows. That's actually one of the main reasons why black midi is on hiatus, or possibly even broke up. This actually effects real life and it's getting pretty bad. It usually happens the more popular something gets, and so people just want to be the funniest fan and get the most attention or whatever. I was always against the notion of gatekeeping artists and not wanting to get popular, but honestly? Me personally? With how people treat popular things, I would hate for my work to be treated like Mitski's or black midi's. I guess another reason why it's so important to support any bands in artists in your local area. Create small but stable, local groups. Capitalism sucks.
What happened to Mitski and Black Midi?
@@mynameissol Some Mitski fans started laughing at her during her tours and meowing at her, and she took a tour break and increased the age limit at some of her shows because of it. And some black midi fans kept shouting memes and just acting ridiculous, and it really wore the band down, especially during the Hellfire tour, and they split up because of it. I don't even know the full picture but I'm sure there's been worse cases. The lack of sincerity is actually destroying people's careers and mental health.
i mean tbf if we want to get into specifics we arent living in a capitalist society but i see your point
@@whatburnsneverreturns ???
i was looking for the comment that rightfully pinned this issue (that stems to most, if not all, forms of art and entertainment) on capitalism. that in tandem with reels/tik toks/shorts/etc and the ever-reducing attention span of the average person, we've managed to find ourselves in a really unfortunate time period of art that is mostly driven by profit incentives. it encourages views and clip farming over quality of creation / discussion. nothing feels original anymore because some small artist or content creator will release something sincere and beautiful and new, and either a larger creator will outright steal the idea and capitalize on it or hundreds of thousands of other people will create carbon copies of it. it's draining to consume and painful to watch. god i need to get back into nature and camping lmao
I love Ethel Cain sm, she is so important to me. I really hate all the brain rot stuff especially towards Preacher’s Daughter. It’s a super heavy and nuanced album and you can feel how she put her soul in it. I’m sure the people making stupid jokes are fans of hers and are well meaning, but i think it deserves more care.
You’re very sus
@ thank you I try
I actually think this is part of why people feel so lonely. There's a lot of factors to that but given how society, particularly in the states, isolates everyone to a large extent, the majority of social interaction most people have is on these platforms. When you talk to someone in person, it is way way WAY more likely you'll have a meaningful conversation. Those are so much harder to have on social media, so it feels like we can't express ourselves or articulate our thoughts the way we want to. Also separate point: this phenomenon has also made concerts worse, since there's always at least one dweeb who thinks they're the funniest guy in earth but who just annoys everyone with their attempts at "humor".
it's wild how many people jump to devolving a normal conversation into a confrontation. i've just started ignoring, blocking, or going "ok" and ignoring the comment chain.
A major reason for loneliness is people sitting in front a screen all day and not standing in front of other people. It’s like people forgot how to go outside and meet new people and establish relationships. You’ve got a whole world to explore and meet new people and you’re wasting away on a computer/phone/tv screen. These people are chronically online and it’s horrible for their health.
Social media bastardizing quality discourse made me think how much I miss old internet forums with different topics. Yes there were also jokes and memes, shitposting if you will, but the lack of "social media dna" made these sites better places to have quality discussions because the lengthy conversation never got buried under poor content cause there were any algorithms. You almost always knew the context and you'd be able to follow the discussion from the start to the end. Everything is so fragmented nowadays.
It was also a bunch of small communities of like-minded people. A lot of the interactions online is strangers giving fly-by likes and laughs to strangers. There's not really a personal connection. On forums you'd learn who regularly posts in various places. You'd learn their usernames or their avatars, you'd learn how they talked and how they generally felt. I feel like I was way more open-minded and understanding of people when I used to go on forums, even people who strongly disagreed with me because I knew they were a complex person. I know that's kind of dumb, everyone is a complex person even if they're just posting a random comment and even if they're a jerk. But what I mean is that it was way more impactful because they were part of the community you were in and you saw it with your own eyes. You knew their likes and dislikes. You'd argue with them on some music discussion or general thread but then you'd go in the gaming or movie section and get into a great conversation about a piece of media you both loved. There's a lot of lost human connection online nowadays. It's sad.
This is so true with Needledrop vids. Every comment is a, "would've been a 10 if it was called (insert joke)", a Melon joke, or just something else irrelevant to the album being discussed.
FINALLY SOMEBODY SAID IT
surprised he didn’t mention the most common one I see at the top “Why did Melon have to [mentions most heinous thing they can think of which he did NOT do in the video].”
Yup, this is the one. It's almost always a TPAB reference too. If it was called to pimp a ___ you would have given it a 10. My god, shut up please. It's one thing to be constantly ironic and it's another to just post the same joke over and over again. It's not even funny.
This is the callout that needs to happen to make people reflect on themselves, even though they might not like it at first
I'm with you. I genuinely am tired of every bit of discourse on the internet being middle school level bullshit.
People online treat every online space like open mic night, trying to make the best riff. Everyone's guilty of this lol
Different levels to it
Honestly I think it’s very interesting to see this difference irl
I’ve noticed people of an older generation or who are generally less online find younger/more online people *really funny*
Like, I’ve noticed a lot of folks my age or even myself throw out simple one liners because vamping on things is just the culture, and it’s met with completely unexpected laughter or praise for the humor, as if it weren’t mostly just a part of how we talk.
Honestly I do think, while it can be taken too far, the comedy is a good thing. So long as you’re *also* willing to engage with things seriously, it can be a very expressive and upbeat way of communicating your thoughts about things.
Pretty sure you do not speak for everyone.
@@LuznoLindo I do. I was named CEO of Everyone in Forbes.
Not even just online
One example of this is the Breaking Bad memes, like that gif of Walter falling on the sand. That scene is one of the most shocking moments in the show, t’s a huge moment in the series and is supposed to make you feel devastated. However, I’ve seen so many people watching the show for the first time completely missing the emotions it was trying to convey because they were only focused on the meme they had seen once. This happens with so many shows and movies nowadays, and it’s really sad to me because people are missing out on great experiences with art that they could have had.
Not to mention that one scene of Pinkman yelling that White "can't keep getting away with it".
better call saul even more so. i dont find anything even remotely memeable about it. it's just sad pretty much all the way through. in any case its incredible and i couldn't recommend it enough
I feel like you could say this about most of pop culture references no? it feels odd to view these things negatively when they are always going to be this way, I bet loads of people got into breaking bad specficly because of the memes. I personally don't feel like this is a problem at all.
@@Jed1ahur right this isnt a problem at all, it would only feel like a problem if someone was way too engaged with online communities
Engagement is what makes people click vids. And in the videos people will see ads. People will not see ads reading through comments. Therefore companies have no incentive to make people spend actual time reading comments.
I hate it, but if we want people to have actual discussions in comment sections, we will need ads in the comment sections.
As long as algorithms are only about engagement, they will favor hateful, funny or blindly idolizing comments as you have described. And out of those 3 funny is actually the best in my opinion...
What gives me hope is that IRL people aren't really like that. Tons of creators that I follow where they believe their audience is only made of chronically online degenerates are pleasantly surprised when IRL interactions like cons and stuff is just, regular everyday folks (let's not also go into the fact those people barely leave the house and have zero social skills and just abuse irony and jokes to hide their insecurities and anxieties)
Exactly this. People getting the impression that this is just how the world is now are unfortunately spending too much time online.
Most people are normal.
I do agree with you. But what also feels so bleak about that is the idea that so many young people that are growing up attached at the hip to the social media experience won't necessarily recognize that, much less indulge in that. The vast majority of their social examples and peer comparisons are spent in the small hours where they're private and alone with the masses of shallow attitudes online, warping their perspectives on these ideas, basically pre-shaming them for potential engagement with experiences, their own thoughts and feelings about art (or any other topics).
I hope that's not the case by and large, but you _know_ it's certainly the case for some. Ugh.
The scary thing however is that people below the age of 14 who grew up with sincerity as something to be ashamed of actually do act like that in real life.
@@schmuglbubcamliterally been a thing online since millenials, just the words changed
i agree, but furthermore i think the internet has created this delusion where people see the worst the world has to offer and not only think it's the norm but also start developing an ego and a sense of arrogance because they know how to behave themselves online, inadvertently causing them to repeat the exact same behaviour they think they're above because they haven't interacted with people in the real world as much.
and whether anyone likes to admit it or not, this kind of behaviour DOES have real-world consequences where some people act as unlikeable as possible because they think they're so well-behaved and then question why no one seems to want to be around them or talk to them.
and this is pretty unrelated to the point, but i also find it interesting how a lot of stuff that gets universal acclaim online doesn't seem to get as much from people who aren't as "plugged in." like the amazing digital circus, for as much praise as that show gets from the online world I've yet to meet a single person irl who thinks it's anything above ok at best
I got in the habit of typing long ass comments but every time I would post it I would think “Is someone gonna tell me it’s pathetic that I’m putting in this much effort.” I feel like that’s just the attitude of online discourse. People will tell you “it’s not that deep” in response to your genuine thoughts on a piece of are but, in reality, it is that deep. In an age where we communicate though the internet first and foremost, it’s damaging to our perception of the world to reduce genuine conversation down to “yapping” and instead proliferate tired jokes that don’t engage with the subject matter at all.
Bro wrote a book 💀💀
@@redengineer4521 god you people are so annoying
@@MaimeBow you people?
@@redengineer4521 Yes. Hope this helps! 👍
@@mhmm4303 🚚
when you wanna engage in discourse it's called yapping. the overuse of "quit yapping " is so annoying, same with liking anythibg to any degree turning into glazing.
This. All the hyper exaggeration of basic behaviors. Respecting women is “simping”, analyzing something is responded to with “it ain’t that deep”, wanting to be skilled at something is “being a tryhard”, etc
@@Cdr2002 its always been around but this time period is peak brain rotted
@@stuartbarrett755 it definitely feels louder than it seems like our collective memories can recall. The past of the internet wasn’t always great, we had the mid 2010s mainstream bigotry as “comedy” UA-cam era and the musty old forums and things like that, but venues like twitter and TikTok have a way of making things feel more pronounced
@@Cdr2002 I wrote in my main comment that I think people have just embraced the memes. Like I saw people say they're tired of X is X comments but Charli XCX used that as her advertising.
Barbie used Ken memes.
But most memes unless specifically forced by the creator is usually just as a response to bad product
@@stuartbarrett755 I was more talking about responding to sincerity and discourse with thoughtless meme comments and not reactions to media, but I acknowledge that there are times where products use memes themselves, sure
I feel as though every youtube section over time devolves to having a few formats / types of comments. For example theres the comments under any music video:
"Here before tiktok/ You can only like this comment if you are here before tiktok 👇"
"Who is listening in (year)? 👇"
"Im from Gen _ and i wish i was born when this came out/They don't make good music like this anymore"
And also certain youtubers have in-jokes that get commented every single video regardless of context, the worst case scenario would be Jschlatt's comment section, no dig at the big guy, i watch him frequently across all his channels.
I think people’s tendency to default to humor in online spaces comes from the utterly inescapable seriousness and bleakness of the reality we live in. We go to the internet as an escape from the outside world, not with its original purpose/intent to use it as a tool to enhance and elucidate our outside physical environment, because then the weight and clarity of what we’d be faced with would be too much for us to bear. The more public an online space the less likely you’re going to encounter thoughtful discussion. The best serious online conversations are deliberate in their intent and purpose and between smaller groups of people with specific goals in mind. A place like the UA-cam comment section has become too big and too generalized for anything productive to happen. The sad thing is most people simply don’t have the time or luxury to think about things deeply. We only have minuscule amounts of time we can spend away from the cycle of working and sleeping and struggling.
For real. Our reality growing up did not include a class on how to have meaningful discussion, the lucky few of us had to figure that out on our own, and now with how big UA-cam has singly become, it's like we're all being smooshed back together
Yeah I often feel insane a bit when I try to treat the Internet as an extension of lived reality. It’s so useful for organizing and for casting a wide net in building community. It used to be I made friends all over the world but ESPECIALLY since COVID started things have become sooo bizarre and so many platforms and sites have become impossible to use for actual interaction since every fucking platform is just punishing adults for wanting to be adults and talk about real shit and taboos and whatever the fuck else. Can’t even say “fuck” without getting shadowbanned or having your content limited. The way we somehow are no longer allowed to talk openly about death and we for some reason have to say “unalive” feels like there was an actual death in the family. Western society’s relationship to reality is so warped and disgusting, like, we can’t cope with the most universal of human experiences bc it’s happening so constantly on such an overwhelming and disturbing scale. Idk. Free Palestine.
Thank you for commenting what I was thinking too.
Yeah
You might want to speak for yourself regarding "the cycle of working and sleeping and struggling". Remember: Not everyone out there is like you.
It's social media literally killing all social skills, nobody can actually talk to each other and hold a conversation! Thoughtful, meaningful discussions are a lost art.
For example, I would love to talk to people about WHY I personally think Bush's Sixteen Stone is a Grunge debut as good as the likes of Facelift or Nevermind, but all I would hear is jokes or blamket statements about why I'm wrong.
Nobody can debate or speak reasonably
tbh idk how others my generation (z) feel but irl i definitely can have deep discussions. i get that not everyone and every time it’s great but me and my closest friends love these chats. i think it’s just a symptom of online interaction. i (thankfully) haven’t run into anyone who does this shit irl. it’s still annoying online tho
Nah, I have thoughtful and meaningful conversations. They still happen. Just maybe not with you brain-poisoned zoomers
To be frank, I don’t know you but maybe you need to step back from the internet or cut down your usage because it can drive you crazy.
I know because when I had literally nothing going on in my life a few years ago I was spending way too much online.
Most people irl are normal. For the most part, it doesn’t represent the real world very well.
@@jonathanmarkham1998 I've done that to be honest, I've not used a social media app (UA-cam aside) since January... best decision I've ever made, but even the people I know in my personal life that are around my age, all they know how to talk about is TikTok and other brainrotted things. I know two people who legitimately can have good conversations
It's amazing how quickly this comments section is just proving Fantanos point. I think both this channel and the main channel have become places where people just immediately dip in to make some sort of quick witted joke about the title of the video or a meme relating to the artist that Fantano is commenting upon.
I've always found it frustrating too, because you can really tell Anthony puts a lot of effort into writing some of his Reviews, and that inevitable sweep of shitty jokes always floods his comments sections. There's a sad lack of engagement with genuine thought put behind it.
It's pretty obvious that a huge chunk of the commenters haven't even watched the video they're commenting on, because they're almost always making a point/joke about something that is directly addressed in the video.
I wonder how many people are still here from thatistheplan
the problem is that we are hoping too much maturity in a virtual world that unfortunetly is ruled by children. And the more time passes, the younger they are. And its almost irreversible cuz they think that they are old enough to understand the fcked up world we live in. They don't. Many of us don't! And that scares me the most.
It’s absolutely true. I hate to be that person who jumps to mentioning TikTok, but it feels like the short, ironic, thoughtless comment section style you find over there has escaped and is now everywhere. It’s like it’s better to say something silly and trendy (“go girl give us nothing” “she ate this up I fear” style comments) than to engage and actually say more about what we’re talking about. Time and place for sure but it’s just so tired.
It’s irritating when I sometimes see that stuff come up in UA-cam shorts but all I have to do is scroll past it.
I don’t have TikTok and don’t intend on getting it because it doesn’t look like my thing at all.
I dont think because there’s a trend on TikTok and UA-cam that means it’s everywhere.
@@jonathanmarkham1998 to be honest if you’re on Shorts or IG Reels it’s going to be largely similar. TikTok is just first in terms of trends. It was funny when it was “TikTok specific” but now it’s everywhere and people are just trying to get funny comments to get tonnes of upvotes and likes instead of having anything meaningful to say lol
Im a professional musician and i think its because in the passed few years lines have been blurred between art and content creation. Any youtuber/content creator is looking to build a community in which everyone jokes around and gets along which equals loyal fans and views. I believe it was the spotify CEO that said musicians should view themselves as content creators. The reality is that being a musician is a job. That musicians take very seriously. But when the audience is expecting some kind of social media, behind the scenes get ready with me type content theyre buying into the person not the music.
Thats why I was happy what Chappell roan said
Spotify is such a joke, realling it's ugly fucking head after napster already predated it. Why would I fuck with spotify if it doesn't have everything and piracy can get me everything
This kind of stuff made me miss the art and chaos of forum debates where people talk about stuff they love in internet forums where some discourse could really get long and meaningful. I like that, its some form of sharing opinions and insight that i actually found interesting cause peoplw can write long message nd you will still read it. Right now you can't really form long messages cause there are other people that will literally drop "i aint reading that" and while i believe in the response of "ignore it", it is kinda disheartening if that became the only response you received after subsequent hours
thank you for this
Now that I think about it, that's what rubbed me the wrong way about Laufey's viral social media hits. She writes such beautiful, heartfelt and deep music but people engaged with it only in a meme format. Maybe that's what created cognitive dissonance for me. It's similar with Mitski - and maybe it's because of this that she does not choose to engage on socials and posts only occasionally through her team. But I think as an artist, there's no right or wrong way to do this. Everyone should do what feels authentic to them.
Many people joke because they are afraid of being vulnerable with their real thoughts and feelings
100%- and they bully you for being real because they assume you’d bully them if they were ever real
people don’t comment on others comments without the incentive to argue in some way because otherwise how will you get likes? It’s ratio or be ratio’d, we’re not humans talking to each other when we’re both on a stage 😞
It’s really important to keep our targets on the companies that design these algorithms and not the people who joke and engage in this way. They have been trained to engage this way
Couldn’t agree more. Have always hated this stuff. Irony poisoning like this is not only the result of everyone wanting to be the class clown; it also shows a deep insecurity about being vulnerable in front of others. The more that’s around, the more infectious it becomes, until no one in a space can say anything sincere anymore. Would love to see others help stop this slow destruction of social spaces online and in the real world. I’ve had to pull back from friends who have gotten too sucked into this before. Jokes are great, but when you can’t say anything substantive anymore, there’s a huge problem.
I think this sort of effect is a problem with the entire internet nowadays. There used to be way more thoughtful and logical conversations around any given topic than there are today, and the relatively limited amount of genuine and thoughtful discussion is usually buried under tons of comments just making quippy banter. I get where Hayden/Ethel is coming from when she calls it an "irony epidemic", it makes a lot of sense.
See any old video about such topics as politics. Older comments are all serious and relate to the point, but something happens in 2016 that everything just turns into an even shittier version of /pol/, no discourse just irony and blaming
People are hunting for likes rather than trying to have a discussion.
A big part of this is the “we’ve only got five sites on the internet” problem. When there’s a more disbursed, decentralized internet, it’s a lot easier to build meaningful communities and weed out low effort/troll/bad actor accounts. When you have an internet where everything is either on Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, TikTok, or UA-cam, there is no community, there is just throwing out whatever will get the most traction and engagement.
One point is the fact, that internet access and therefore communication increased rapidly. Literally everyone can join in. Back in the day, I only remember 17 years ago, it was big, but not that big in comparison of today. That's one point the way it is nowadays.
6:06 This exact thing has turned me off so many albums in the last 5 years or so. When the praise is heaped so high, it makes it hard for your reaction to be anything but disappointment
Exactly, when i listen to an artists new song i try not to go in the comments bcuz it’ll just be ppl praising it so much
I still like Travis Scott though even with the hype
This is exactly why I avoid people talking about what they think an album might be before it comes out. Expectation can easily sour the experience of an album.
10:50 the word obviously does a lot of work here
That's why Steam reviews have three buttons "thumbs up", "thumbs down" and "funny"
I’m really happy you’re talking about this Anthony because it’s something that’s been on my mind for a while. I am someone who is an aspiring writer and musician and as I have seen the culture trend this way it has certainly been disheartening at times. I think that it stems from a fear, and a desire to fit in to the crowd. When we see one person making fun of something and being irreverent, if they’re supported by the crowd it makes us all want to join in. It makes us feel good to laugh and point at someone who is maybe overplaying their sincerity or creating art that’s on the sappy and saturated side. But it snowballs into any genuine expression of emotion that is not disassociate apathy being labeled as cringe. And we all also fear being on the other end of those laughs and points, we fear over-expressing ourselves and showing a little too much of ourselves to the world because especially in this age of immediate sharing and spreading, you can so easily be put on blast and have your whole world turned upside down by trolls and people with mean spirits. We’re all so scared of being turned into the next meme that we’re afraid to express ourselves. I think it’s also because as the saying goes, nothing is sacred anymore. Now I’m not religious but I think the idea of sacrament and the sacred is very important. It’s something that you can actively engage with and participate in but it requires work, and it can require a suspension of disbelief and a willingness to participate within the parameters and accepted framework of a system, or in other words, good faith. For many people music is that sacrament and people care about and work for and at the music they love, but it doesn’t take any work or understanding to make fun of something, and even less to glom onto someone else’s joke. It’s easy to say, for example, look at the silly Catholics in their silly costumes with their wafers and wine and they’re so self serious and reverential. It’s so easy to make fun of that, especially if there’s people who are being serious and judging you for not being as serious as them or maybe they’re just being jerks in general, but it’s hard to engage with something earnestly that is outside of our own internal monologue and world view and political stance and music taste. It’s hard to engage with something greater than ourselves and simultaneously treat that thing with due respect and reverence, whether it’s our favorite thing or not. Even if we are to criticize it we can still treat it with due respect. Believe me I love to crack jokes and be a bit of a hater about certain things among family and friends, but especially online I try not to leave a comment if it’s not something positive to say, and if I do have some criticism and it’s something I feel strongly about, I at least make an effort to not just be mocking and sarcastic and rude. Maybe at times that’s what the situation calls for because there’s a bad actor, acting in bad faith, so you get what you give in that case, but that’s not the case most of the time. Mostly it’s people in the comments arguing in bad faith and only mocking and tearing down and trying to make people feel foolish, lesser, ignorant, or just debasing their art or opinion entirely with an outrageous hyperbole or insult or sarcastic joke or whatever the case may be. I guess what I’m saying is just that I think if we had a greater sense of the sacred and the earnest belief in the importance of something that’s bigger than our one experience, then it would be easier for us to accept that sincerity in others, even if their art isn’t something we love or even if it’s something we feel strongly about enough to criticize it. We meet people where they’re at and take their words and art as seriously as they do. That’s not a catch all perfect thing across the board, the world is full of nuance, but I think it’s a good start. Because right now the most socially acceptable reactions to things are hate, obsession, or indifference. And that ain’t healthy, y’all
Very well written. I won't lie, I was initially put off my how long your comment was, but I decided to read it, anyway. It only took three minutes for me to do so, too, and it was admittedly very worth the read.
It's also a question of how old your audience is. If your art most attracts kids and teenagers, do not expect nuance.
Plenty of 40-somethings are running around with their "hello fellow kids" hat on backward.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 I agree. When it comes to political standpoints e.g. , it doesn't really matter what age you are engaging in. I got called names by over 40 or 50 somethings in a not intelligent way. The point is, do you have the access, interest and capability to get in larger points. Many will fail, regardless of topic or age.
This comment section is already proving his point 💀
Bro💀
Not really though
@@NAETEMUSIC not at all. 😂
@@captainbube1217 Its actually turned around thankfully since I posted this, kind of a nice welcome reprieve
It's actually refreshing to not have to sift through hundreds of the same tired jokes to reach some actual discourse
I despise the term "it's not that deep." It is almost always that deep. People are afraid of thinking because the state of our reality is oppressively bleak but should at least respect art by allowing themselves to be vulnerable for it like the artist is being for them.
Whenever I see comments like that, I always just assume they had no depth to begin with, like a puddle on a sidewalk. That's how deep their thinking and approach to life and the humanities devolves to.
It's some brain deadening conversational killer that's often just projection because they're either unwilling or unable to think more deeply
This reminds me of the comments people post on Hideo Kojima's page on Instagram. Every time you go to see the comments, it's always the same shitty jokes about feet scans or making their own Metal Gear Solid, and I don't understand how they still find this funny after it's been posted a million times. I mean, I get it, their brains are rotted from TikTok and stuff, but holy hell, it impresses me.
I distinctly remember University in 2019 a strong shift, people started talking irl like they would on twitter. It made me hate so many people, lol.
I've discovered your content via the meme reviews.
I might be fixated on the humor side of your content because of that, although I also listen to your thoughts and get exposed to new music through your content.
It could be nicer to have a more thoughtful comment section, and shitposts that aren't copypasta. I'll try to be a bit more thoughtful in my likes and comments.
I'm glad you brought attention to her post because what she said did really resonate with me. I always feel a bit embarrassing because I do like to excitedly and genuinely engage with things people make and what they made me think. I've gone in comment sections of channels analyzing music, and it'll bum me out because a creator will form so much potential for really interesting and fun discussion and all anyone wants is to goof or demand the next thing they want the creator to look at. It's never anything personal obvs against people doing this, I've no doubt I've even unintentionally participated in it in the past as well - it's just weird and disappointing to observe the constant brainrot and demand for instant gratification, knowing that social media has no intention of changing and it's affecting us all on such a massive scale.
In my personal experience, I feel very insecure about sharing my deep thoughts on the things I love because of these kinds of situations. I feel very vulnerable, and on the other hand, discussions around art have become quite elitist and not very approachable for people who are just starting to explore new art forms (music, films, books, etc.). Usually, the first thing I encounter when I do this is someone mocking me because they don't agree with my point of view, and that makes me very sad
Please don't feel that way, but it's easier said than done, I'm pretty sensitive myself. Give it to them and leave it as it is. Engage with someone who's insightful or may agree with you. Others can go [...] themselves. Don't let them dictate when or whether you not engage. Theres nothing stupid about taste. I listen to almost everything with a strong stance on rock, metal or many harsh music styles. In my teens I was afraid, I wanted to be in a community. Since I stop giving a damn about anything, I do what I want and that's the way I enjoy the most. My clothing resambles rock/metal mostly, but I'll join gay, rap, r'n'b, techno or metal parties. No one can stop me and neither they should stopping you rooting for anything you like :-)
The late Fredric Jameson called this, forty plus years ago, “the death of affect”. Humour, and specifically irony, is what has replaced it. We sense that if we take anything seriously the world will despise us for what can only be our naivety.
I always thought it was weird to scroll through the comments while listening to you express your thoughts and most of the comments are just like, 'LOL MELON'. I've been watching you since around 2013 across various accounts and I've seen the comments gradually devolve over time.
This is probably down to the bigger picture on the Internet that we're simply in a short attention span era, not to blame solely tiktok or IG reels but its social media apps such as them where people feel more rewarded to see content, comments etc that you can process in 4 or 5 seconds and therefore easier to make a joke or shitpost rather than say or do something informative or mature