came for the trope discussion, stayed for the history lesson and the philosophical discussion on free will. Also, I hope it's not bad to say that Austin always reminds me of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure characters... I can't explain it!
29:00 I don't know if you guys like metal music, but there's a Swedish band called Sabaton who did songs about both of these things! The song for Austin's example is called Christmas Truce, and Richard's example about Castle Itter is called The Last Battle. Both great songs!
I think what actually makes a good chosen one trope for me is the reason why they were chosen in the first place, like why it must be them and only them. Convince me they were chosen for a good enough reason and I'm in
There’s this line from a Ted Chiang short story, that sums up determinism VS free will, and I love it: “It is essential that you behave as if your decisions matter, even though they don’t.”
I will say to Richard’s point about free will being a primarily Christian concept, it certainly does exist in Eastern culture. The Vedanta concept of the Mind and the Intellect where your mind holds your impulses and raw desires and the Intellect is the one that provides rational thought and reflection upon those impulses is a perfect example of that. As humans, we certainly have predetermined instincts/impulses but we can also uniquely reject them and make different decisions
Austin I am so glad to hear that you are starting Mistborn. I pray that you enjoy the entire trilogy as much as I hope you will. P.S. I also cannot eat pizza due to something in red sauce
I think you guys mistitled this episode, something like: "Questionable History Deep Dive and Wild Philosophy Musings with two obviously not-Chosen Ones" would have been better... just saying 👀🤣 Thanks for the entertainment 🤘
I'm in book 2, An Echoe of Things to Come. And although it is definitely better than the first. I still feel like I'm mostly lost on to what's fully going on. So I'm hoping that Richard is right on Book 3. Then after that it's The Will of the Many so I'm glad apparently there's a video of that coming soon.
Let the philosophers philosophize, the governments govern, the corporations strategize, the angry riot…but I will live my life and read my books and thank my God.
How did this turn out to be the most unhinged episode??? Lmao yeah if you got the time (and the stomach) look up the ‘grape’ of nanking. I think alot of Japanese schools (unlike Germany who greatly educates its citizens about WW2 and their part in its atrocities) largely gloss over their involvement prior to our entrance onto the pacific theater.
I want to provide some pushback to the argument that determinism is the logical choice or makes the most "logical" sense. I think determinism is the rational choice but not the logical one. I think determinism and free will is a false dichotomy. When most people discuss it, they often omit the concept of randomness in part or fully. At first glance, lumping randomness in with free will might make sense. Except that random outcomes are not devoid of predictability. If I give you a box with a hundred (not weighted) dice in it, we can come up with all possible outcomes, making all of them predictable or pre-determined. However, we cannot know what result you will get if you shake the box, take off the lid, and look inside. We can calculate the probability of getting all 1s. But I can't tell you when that outcome will happen. The best I can do is give you an average. If a hundred people each had a box with one hundred dice, we can calculate on average how many times each person would have to shake the box to get all one. The outcome is deterministic because it is a known possibility before the first box is shaken. Yet at the same time, it is impossible to know when exactly that outcome will occur; it is random. But I fully acknowledge that that is a lot harder to grasp and accept on a cosmic scale. And that it isn't the best view to take into consideration when it comes to structuring a society or developing policies. Leaving everything up to random chance would likely result in a lot of wasted time and resources. And quite frankly, we don't live that long. This is why I believe that determinism is the rational choice while randomness is the logical choice. But free will is the most productive. And therefore a reasonable choice to build society and laws around. However, in one last plot twist. I actually think randomness is the best argument for "Let the philosophers philosophize, I will just live my life." If most things are both out of your control and not predictable, then the one thing you can do is live your life. Pursue the things you want to pursue while finding ways to enjoy the journey. And because random chance does not negate causality; try to consider what impact you would like your actions to have, both during and after your lifetime.
video idea: look at the ratings you gave to all the reviews on this channel and rank the books in that order. One ranking for austin and one for richard
You guys definitely need to at least give Berserk a chance on this channel. Definitely something i would be excited to see yalls opinions and reading experience on!
Has Richard read Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will by Robert Sapolsky? Because his whole part of that discussion sounded a lot like the portion of this book I actually made it through.
And I agree with Richard. Logically, determinism makes so much sense. But I just don't believe it either. (Which I'm sure a determinist would say is because of this and that and whatever and I'm predetermined to not believe it. But poo poo to that.)
On the topic of isekais.. Richard, i’m curious if you’ve seen re:zero? I enjoyed the way it played with and inverted a lot of isekai cliches update: never mind I should’ve watched more before commenting LOL
Aes Sedai believe in determanism too much. Most literally take the prophesies at face value and think they can control Rand and he'll just do the thing for them
What about Poland. My city went from 1.3 million to under a 1000 in less than a month thanks to both the Soviets and Nazis … also also WW2 started with Nazis attacking Westerplatte 1.09.1939 and then 17 days later the Soviets attacked from the other side as per the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. … they screwed us over by abducting our intelligentsia to the Katyn forest and shot them so that Poland wouldn’t be able to fight them off. Like… sure the USSR suffered a lot but the most? Idk abt that esp since they decimated countries before joining the Allies.
Brian lee durfees trilogy does this super well. He has a bunch of differing prophecies that you are constantly called to both believe in and doubt by all the different characters about who the chosen ones are and what they will do
I swear like John Gwynne doesn't get all the credit he should on BookTube. People praise his action and quick emotional investment in his characters, but the way he subverts stories is truly brilliant. I haven't watched a ton of reviews, but I kinda feel like that isn't talked about enough.
You're referring to the battle of castle Itter in Austria. Also there is a really nice sabaton song related to this brief American/German coalition to protect some political emissaries from France (I think) and is called the Last battle. Also the fact about Germans reacting to japanese atrocities reminded me kind of this James bond movie, I think it was goldeneye where one of the main adversaries is an ex KGB military officer and he says what his sidekick Zenya onatop does he is kinda wtf is wrong with you which I found pretty relatable to the WWII situation. And also pretty funny.
Wild that Austin mentions he'll be reading Mistborn next and no, even brief, talk about how 'Chosen One' and Prophecy are somewhat twisted around in that original trilogy. In any case, great content, can't wait for the next one.
came for the trope discussion, stayed for the history lesson and the philosophical discussion on free will. Also, I hope it's not bad to say that Austin always reminds me of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure characters... I can't explain it!
*Insert pillar men music*
Specifically Joshu 😛
29:00 I don't know if you guys like metal music, but there's a Swedish band called Sabaton who did songs about both of these things! The song for Austin's example is called Christmas Truce, and Richard's example about Castle Itter is called The Last Battle. Both great songs!
Ooo! I got into Sabaton not too long ago, after I fell in love with Nightwish. They're both so good but so different
@KALtheHighstorm117 Nightwish is great too!
I think what actually makes a good chosen one trope for me is the reason why they were chosen in the first place, like why it must be them and only them. Convince me they were chosen for a good enough reason and I'm in
There’s this line from a Ted Chiang short story, that sums up determinism VS free will, and I love it: “It is essential that you behave as if your decisions matter, even though they don’t.”
This was a rollercoaster
I am seated for this deep dive on the different tropes, boys. 😊
More to come 🤝
I will say to Richard’s point about free will being a primarily Christian concept, it certainly does exist in Eastern culture. The Vedanta concept of the Mind and the Intellect where your mind holds your impulses and raw desires and the Intellect is the one that provides rational thought and reflection upon those impulses is a perfect example of that. As humans, we certainly have predetermined instincts/impulses but we can also uniquely reject them and make different decisions
Oh, It would be great if you guys talk about historical books too ! ❤
Totally agree with Richard's take on Isekai. Lot of junk to sift through. Also looking forward to see you talk about Berserk.
Austin I am so glad to hear that you are starting Mistborn. I pray that you enjoy the entire trilogy as much as I hope you will.
P.S. I also cannot eat pizza due to something in red sauce
Griffith in Berserk is an example of a villain being the chosen one
I think you guys mistitled this episode, something like: "Questionable History Deep Dive and Wild Philosophy Musings with two obviously not-Chosen Ones" would have been better... just saying 👀🤣
Thanks for the entertainment 🤘
😂 where were you when we were idea boarding this, thats the title we need
Love y’all. Hopefully in the future you can put your discord on free. Id love to join the book discussions!
The Chosen 2 To Ramble
I'm in book 2, An Echoe of Things to Come. And although it is definitely better than the first. I still feel like I'm mostly lost on to what's fully going on. So I'm hoping that Richard is right on Book 3. Then after that it's The Will of the Many so I'm glad apparently there's a video of that coming soon.
Let the philosophers philosophize, the governments govern, the corporations strategize, the angry riot…but I will live my life and read my books and thank my God.
How did this turn out to be the most unhinged episode??? Lmao yeah if you got the time (and the stomach) look up the ‘grape’ of nanking. I think alot of Japanese schools (unlike Germany who greatly educates its citizens about WW2 and their part in its atrocities) largely gloss over their involvement prior to our entrance onto the pacific theater.
I want to provide some pushback to the argument that determinism is the logical choice or makes the most "logical" sense. I think determinism is the rational choice but not the logical one.
I think determinism and free will is a false dichotomy. When most people discuss it, they often omit the concept of randomness in part or fully. At first glance, lumping randomness in with free will might make sense. Except that random outcomes are not devoid of predictability. If I give you a box with a hundred (not weighted) dice in it, we can come up with all possible outcomes, making all of them predictable or pre-determined. However, we cannot know what result you will get if you shake the box, take off the lid, and look inside. We can calculate the probability of getting all 1s. But I can't tell you when that outcome will happen.
The best I can do is give you an average. If a hundred people each had a box with one hundred dice, we can calculate on average how many times each person would have to shake the box to get all one. The outcome is deterministic because it is a known possibility before the first box is shaken. Yet at the same time, it is impossible to know when exactly that outcome will occur; it is random.
But I fully acknowledge that that is a lot harder to grasp and accept on a cosmic scale. And that it isn't the best view to take into consideration when it comes to structuring a society or developing policies. Leaving everything up to random chance would likely result in a lot of wasted time and resources. And quite frankly, we don't live that long.
This is why I believe that determinism is the rational choice while randomness is the logical choice. But free will is the most productive. And therefore a reasonable choice to build society and laws around.
However, in one last plot twist. I actually think randomness is the best argument for "Let the philosophers philosophize, I will just live my life." If most things are both out of your control and not predictable, then the one thing you can do is live your life. Pursue the things you want to pursue while finding ways to enjoy the journey. And because random chance does not negate causality; try to consider what impact you would like your actions to have, both during and after your lifetime.
Love the thoughts on this, thank you!
video idea: look at the ratings you gave to all the reviews on this channel and rank the books in that order. One ranking for austin and one for richard
Is the red rising book in the back not level w the other ones? It's like wedged a little higher than the others
Oops youre right !
Rand my goat
🥲
You guys definitely need to at least give Berserk a chance on this channel. Definitely something i would be excited to see yalls opinions and reading experience on!
If y’all are still interested in religion I highly recommend mere Christianity and The ScrewTape Letters both by C S Lewis
LISAN AL GIAB
I JUST watched that movie lol
😂
Has Richard read Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will by Robert Sapolsky? Because his whole part of that discussion sounded a lot like the portion of this book I actually made it through.
And I agree with Richard. Logically, determinism makes so much sense. But I just don't believe it either. (Which I'm sure a determinist would say is because of this and that and whatever and I'm predetermined to not believe it. But poo poo to that.)
I dont think he’s read it, but im sure he’d be interested
Anyone know what battle Richard is referencing?
First! Just in time for my commute
😁
On the topic of isekais.. Richard, i’m curious if you’ve seen re:zero? I enjoyed the way it played with and inverted a lot of isekai cliches
update: never mind I should’ve watched more before commenting LOL
Richard is Dultatis... confirmed.
I'm here for the isekai slander.
Ohh yesss
Aes Sedai believe in determanism too much. Most literally take the prophesies at face value and think they can control Rand and he'll just do the thing for them
I am reading Will of the Many right now and damn it, it is sooo good. Harry Potter, but better… 😤
(Thats our next episode coming out)
@@2ToRamble Oh no, now I have to sprint through the last 200 pages before Monday! 😮💨
@@MaiaGothmog Howd you do :D
@@2ToRamble The ending had me floored. Now I have serious post-book depression. Your review was fun to watch
What about Poland. My city went from 1.3 million to under a 1000 in less than a month thanks to both the Soviets and Nazis … also also WW2 started with Nazis attacking Westerplatte 1.09.1939 and then 17 days later the Soviets attacked from the other side as per the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. … they screwed us over by abducting our intelligentsia to the Katyn forest and shot them so that Poland wouldn’t be able to fight them off. Like… sure the USSR suffered a lot but the most? Idk abt that esp since they decimated countries before joining the Allies.
Please shave your hair, its uncomfortable to look at
We gotta start going with… the chosen two
Chance. Youre onto something
Sevro was the chosen one!
It was a very fun episode. Keep up the great work 👍🏻
Brian lee durfees trilogy does this super well. He has a bunch of differing prophecies that you are constantly called to both believe in and doubt by all the different characters about who the chosen ones are and what they will do
please make Austin read Berserk and give us a review. this is the only manga I will push for you all to cover
Last 20% & finale of Licanius was excellent, just a shame the (very long) rest of it was a bit meh! 😒
Not only did The Faithful & The Fallen subvert the Chosen One trope once but Gywnne subverted it twice!!! 😘
I swear like John Gwynne doesn't get all the credit he should on BookTube. People praise his action and quick emotional investment in his characters, but the way he subverts stories is truly brilliant. I haven't watched a ton of reviews, but I kinda feel like that isn't talked about enough.
Wojtek the bear was a chosen one in ww2
changed the book shelf a bit?
Tiny bit!
You're referring to the battle of castle Itter in Austria. Also there is a really nice sabaton song related to this brief American/German coalition to protect some political emissaries from France (I think) and is called the Last battle. Also the fact about Germans reacting to japanese atrocities reminded me kind of this James bond movie, I think it was goldeneye where one of the main adversaries is an ex KGB military officer and he says what his sidekick Zenya onatop does he is kinda wtf is wrong with you which I found pretty relatable to the WWII situation. And also pretty funny.
Wild that Austin mentions he'll be reading Mistborn next and no, even brief, talk about how 'Chosen One' and Prophecy are somewhat twisted around in that original trilogy.
In any case, great content, can't wait for the next one.
We will surely talk about it in reviews, cant wait 🤝