When it comes to the study of religions, the Mises Institute & most Libertarians seem to be the equivalent of Keynesian Economists. No matter how much one tries to reason based on historical fact & Orthodox Islamic theology, they still insist on clinging to a make-believe world. In this case one that believes "hey, we're all the same really, right? Those quaint religious myths don't really mean much right? We're all humans first right?" Keynes knows economics like Mises Inst knows Islam
Yea, libertarians are retarded when it comes to Islam. Libertarians are so blinded by hate for the state that they believe everything else "must be good." Islam is literally the most anti-individual rights and personal freedom ideology ever invented. Islam is literally 100% pro-total dictator government and literally always has been. You get murdered if you criticize muhammed and his delusion at all. Libertarians emotionalism leads them to literally stand with a 100% pro-dictator state 😂😂😂
why i like about mises institutse is that, it's full of smart and open minded people, what you see in youtube comments is just the opposite.i'm a muslim myself and have been following mises institute articles and videos since about a year, and it never disappoint :)
excellent book Mr. Akyol .. indeed there is no conflict between Islam and liberalism ..and there is no conflict between Islam and secularism .. they can go hand in hand .. unfortunately many people judge Islam by the practices of the people .. Islam as an ideology is something very different than the 'practiced' Islam .. . Akyol provides a very good case for Muslim liberty ..... we Arabs need his book to be translated .... especially after the Arab revolution ...
5:30 'Only in the past decade the west thinks that islam is so horrible...' wtf? I am pretty shue that medieval spanish and austrian people had a different opinion about this as muslim armies invaded their homelands.
People were more civilized and advance than today's they don't care for them selves.Hopefully we all now realise that we all are one just with different colors, values, etc. Lets live better future for our kids and to become more advanced civilized nations that our kids can continue the journey.Regards
One thing I think Muslims have done really well is insurance. The profits of the company go to lower the premiums of everyone. If you didn't get in a car wreck for the year, the profits go to helping pay other accidents, anything left over goes back to policy holders to lower their rates. How freaking amazing is that! imagine health insurance that way. You don't use it? then you get a discount next year. I really wish more insurance would do that.
This is far too simplistic and idealized. The Islamic scriptures, ultimately require Islamic dominance by any means including force, whereas the Christian scriptures allow only propagation of the faith by way of verbal communications. On a more fundamental level the Islamic scriptures contradict the Christian scriptures, since Mohammed assumed the people of the book had the word of God before, then any subsequent contradictions must be seen as such, other wise God would have failed.
The origins of government is religion. Separation of church and state is a modern concepts, well exemplified by Islam which makes no distinction between church and state. Further Islam claiming credit for the scientific progress in the middle ages is like the catholic church claiming credit for Newton's discoveries, those advances came in spite, not because of Islam. And to think of Islam even mentioned in the same word as freedom is a joke, Islam is submission.
@macornelius. You're being dishonest. I've said Mises was an advocate of reason, this is a principled,philiosophical, epistemological, position; not merely application. You egregiously drop the context about who Mises was (which you can know through his works). Btw, you can't even quote correct. I said "...wasn't an atheist" . To be agnostic, in the context of Mises, made him an atheist. He was an agnostic atheist. Deal with it, and stop evading.
@darklordsma it was a collective effort by majority of the turks to annihilate all armenians. it has nothing to do with individualism. what's your point?
@Afaunman I read the wiki page on Al-Razi which has a long section on his views on religion, mainly Islam. He has harshly criticized all religions including Islam and has called the Quran "a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. "
@batmanthe Well fro starters he said something like most of the scientists and mathematicians of ancient times were from the Muslim world which is not quite correct. While there were many leading intellectuals who were born Muslim, they didn't constitute the majority of the intelligentsia; there were many pioneers from China and South Asia too. Moreover, many of these "Muslim" scientists (eg., Al Razi) were quite anti-Islamic in their outlook.
@failedassassin FYI: Mises Institute heavyweight Walter Block is an atheist. I think Butler Shaffer is as well, plus probably several other Mises Institute scholars. :)
I am from Turkey and a secularist Muslim. Mustafa Akyol is a liberal for sure. He cares for civil rights, freedom of speech etc. But deep down he is still a passionate neo-ottoman. He is also an advocate of intelligent design. Unfortunately every conservative in this world is doomed to have pseudoscientific beliefs. Wearing suits and ties, speaking English, promoting liberalism is not enough.
I also want to add .. I honestly cannot understand those who call themselves secularists in turkey ...... secularism means neutrality .. and tolerance .. why secularists in turkey are dogmatic and want to force women to abandon their hejab .. people are free to choose religion , belief and others ............
Since peaceful isn't consistent with the writings of the Qur'an, the Hadith, and the bioagraphy of Muhammad's life; I can't take the idea of a peaceful or liberty loving Islam seriously. People who've studied the actually writings to any significant degree aren't going to be so easily duped.
@yuppyguitar1 I've noticed none who make a point of bringing up religion, and relatively few who have even so much as mentioned it. Even the ones who are clearly religious, such as Tom Woods who has written books about Catholicism, does not throw religion into the mix when discussing economic issues, or even historical ones, where it might actually have some relevance. I believe they are well aware of your concern (which I share).
Not this nonsense again. It seems Jeffery Tucker is determined to convince everyone once and for all that Islam is inherently a religion of peace and liberty. Well, sure..but only if you repudiate and/or ignore the words of its most revered prophet. Jeffery can live in a state of dhimmitude all he likes, but I think I will pass. Why not take the Koran to mean what it says? Jeffery Tucker needs to let this line of thought go. Who knows though, maybe he's considering converting. Islam 4 Breakfast.
@macornelius. Again, you have evidence to the contrary if you consider the logical consequence of having fidelity to reason. It's to take him at his word when he claimed to be an advocate of reason. Rand, Rothbard, were indeed different people but were very opinionated and would've mentioned if Mises wasn't an atheist. As for a citation, you can read "Mises Debunks the Religious Case for the State" on mises.org. The term agnostic epistemologically makes him a so-called "weak" atheist.
@NobiscumDeus1 I was replying to your original comment, perhaps that was unclear. To clarify, my intention was to convey that Christianity is fundamentally as bad as Islam as you described it in your first comment, luckily, modern Christians don't act as they used to. However, there are still major problems in politics, social tolerance, and the science class, which should be a great boon for rationalism, but is one of the battlegrounds because of the push for creationism.
@Intellisecular No, you said “Rand, Rothbard, [sic] were indeed different people but were very opinionated and would've mentioned if Mises wasn't an atheist” which is complete nonsense. I copied and pasted; I didn't make anything up and I didn't quote anything out of context (unlike you just quoting yourself). And the agnostic=atheist line is bullshit, which I've already covered. That is not the way those words have ever been in common use.
@GUNNERBOYZ Hamid was a ruler, which means that he by definition did many terrible things -- albeit not on a scale comparable to the crimes committed by his successors. The bloodletting committed by his government came in the context of regional wars outside Turkey, and revolutionary agitation by Armenian nationalists within. His conduct was similar to that of many other rulers, Muslim and non-Muslim, who put down uprisings. The problem isn't Islam per se -- it's the State.
Good video, generally. But if I may indulge my pedantic side for a moment: Avicenna is Ibn Sina, not Ibn Rushd, who is Averroes. Also, in the lecture, Akyol referred to 'algebra' as derived from someone called 'Al-Jabr'; in fact, it comes from the title of an Arabic book (on mathematics) called 'Al-jabr wa l-muqabala' by the mathematician Al-Khwarizmi; but Akyol was right to say the latter's name gives 'algorithm'.
@macornelius. I'm looking for it, and while I am looking for it, consider a few things. You're presuming Mises believed in God. What evidence do you have that would lead you to believe that? It shouldn't come as a surprise. If you've read "Human Action" you'll see that Mises, like Rand, considered reason our basic means of acquiring knowledge. Rothbard was an atheist. George Reisman is an atheist. If you've studied this stuff it shouldn't come as a surprise.
interesting that mises media put a video up on islam... i took a class on islam a little while ago and apparently the koran talks a lot about property rights and basically defends the libertarian position much like the bible does
I'm all for muslim liberty... provided the faiths mainstream attitudes are adequately reformed.That is definitely not the case yet, jihad is still waged and encouraged centuries on and sharia still is popular in muslim majority countries
@NobiscumDeus1 You could replace "Islam" in your comment with "Christianity" and the comment would still be accurate. Luckily, most Christians don't take their religious doctrine as seriously as it used to, and the ones that do are tempered by secular laws.
@darkmossie633 The best way to beat the Islamists is through Islam. It is just that the worst groups tend to get the most funding from US allies like Saudi Arabia & other Gulf regimes, and that for a long time these worst of the worst groups were proxies in the cold war. Try to be less fearful.
@Intellisecular «You're presuming Mises believed in God.» No, I'm not. «What evidence do you have that would lead you to believe that?» I don't; that's one reason I don't believe that. I also have no evidence to the contrary. «It shouldn't come as a surprise.» It wouldn't. «Rand, Rothbard, Resiman, blah blah blah…» are different than Mises and whatever they are/were is completely irrelevant to the point of what Mises was.
I want to give Islam a chance, I really do but everything I've seen in the contemporary sense doesn't give me many positives to go on. That said I fully agree that the Iraq invasion was a disaster and the foreign policy since WWII has been a complete disaster. I'm not anti-Israel but I am deeply opposed to providing them or anyone else in the Middle East foreign aid. Foreign entanglements and all that... -
@TrentEmberson. "pagan savages" Must be nice to use words divorced from the historical context that gave rise to them. Savage cultures looked to the supernatural when they lacked efficacy dealing with the world. It was the Pagans that rose humanity above savagery. Read Hamilton's "The Greek Way" and Malinowski's works on superstition. Rand would call you a thief of concepts. Instead of evading, why not have the courage, and intellectual honesty, to see the world as it is?
@ZombieX13. Don't believe their (Tucker's and Akyol's) distortions of history. Read Ibn Warraq's "Why I Am Not A Muslim" and Bat Ye'or's "The Decline of Eastern Christianity: From Jihad to Dhimmitude" .
@MsWanderer1 Well, if you look through history, religion was merely the first form of government. Then you have social government, which now is about ready to die out, and is moving towards corporate governments, or a single world government. One day, someone will say, "why the hell do people have their own governments and just not use the world government"
@NobiscumDeus1 ummm all religions care about conversion and conserving their religion, and any religion would love to impose its morals system via government all major ones have at one point in history and none have turned out too good.
I read something interesting about differences between Islam and Christianity. In Islam, people must die for their God and where Christians' God died for all sinners.
@NobiscumDeus1 Submission to GOD not people & materialism. I really wish people like you, who claim to be so " open minded " wouldn't be "Close minded" when it comes to religion and actually read into it instead of assuming.
@FreedomZealot Ottoman Turks started the massacres of Armenians in late 19th century under Sultan Hamid and Young Turks finalized it as a Genocide in 1915. Study history before showcasing your own ignorance. Plus both of my grandparents families were butchered by Turks. I know this story first hand unlike you and I carry the awful memories of the barbaric massacres passed on to me by my family. Modern Turkey denies the genocide. The genocide of Native Americans was as horryfying. Now you know!
![Mustafa Akyol [II]: The Islamic Moses | The Biblical Prophet Through Muslim Eyes](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YGX1mLW1Cfw/mqdefault.jpg)
When it comes to the study of religions, the Mises Institute & most Libertarians seem to be the equivalent of Keynesian Economists. No matter how much one tries to reason based on historical fact & Orthodox Islamic theology, they still insist on clinging to a make-believe world. In this case one that believes "hey, we're all the same really, right? Those quaint religious myths don't really mean much right? We're all humans first right?"
Keynes knows economics like Mises Inst knows Islam
Yea, libertarians are retarded when it comes to Islam. Libertarians are so blinded by hate for the state that they believe everything else "must be good."
Islam is literally the most anti-individual rights and personal freedom ideology ever invented. Islam is literally 100% pro-total dictator government and literally always has been. You get murdered if you criticize muhammed and his delusion at all.
Libertarians emotionalism leads them to literally stand with a 100% pro-dictator state 😂😂😂
why i like about mises institutse is that, it's full of smart and open minded people, what you see in youtube comments is just the opposite.i'm a muslim myself and have been following mises institute articles and videos since about a year, and it never disappoint :)
excellent book Mr. Akyol .. indeed there is no conflict between Islam and liberalism ..and there is no conflict between Islam and secularism .. they can go hand in hand .. unfortunately many people judge Islam by the practices of the people .. Islam as an ideology is something very different than the 'practiced' Islam .. . Akyol provides a very good case for Muslim liberty ..... we Arabs need his book to be translated .... especially after the Arab revolution ...
5:30 'Only in the past decade the west thinks that islam is so horrible...' wtf? I am pretty shue that medieval spanish and austrian people had a different opinion about this as muslim armies invaded their homelands.
People were more civilized and advance than today's they don't care for them selves.Hopefully we all now realise that we all are one just with different colors, values, etc. Lets live better future for our kids and to become more advanced civilized nations that our kids can continue the journey.Regards
One thing I think Muslims have done really well is insurance. The profits of the company go to lower the premiums of everyone. If you didn't get in a car wreck for the year, the profits go to helping pay other accidents, anything left over goes back to policy holders to lower their rates. How freaking amazing is that! imagine health insurance that way. You don't use it? then you get a discount next year. I really wish more insurance would do that.
What speech are they referring to at the beginning? Where can I watch it?
This is far too simplistic and idealized. The Islamic scriptures, ultimately require Islamic dominance by any means including force, whereas the Christian scriptures allow only propagation of the faith by way of verbal communications. On a more fundamental level the Islamic scriptures contradict the Christian scriptures, since Mohammed assumed the people of the book had the word of God before, then any subsequent contradictions must be seen as such, other wise God would have failed.
which speech is Jeffrey Tucker talking about at the beginning of the interview?
The origins of government is religion. Separation of church and state is a modern concepts, well exemplified by Islam which makes no distinction between church and state.
Further Islam claiming credit for the scientific progress in the middle ages is like the catholic church claiming credit for Newton's discoveries, those advances came in spite, not because of Islam.
And to think of Islam even mentioned in the same word as freedom is a joke, Islam is submission.
@Liam1304."Keynes knows economics like Mises Inst knows Islam." Absolutely correct.
@macornelius. You're being dishonest. I've said Mises was an advocate of reason, this is a principled,philiosophical, epistemological, position; not merely application. You egregiously drop the context about who Mises was (which you can know through his works). Btw, you can't even quote correct. I said "...wasn't an atheist" . To be agnostic, in the context of Mises, made him an atheist. He was an agnostic atheist. Deal with it, and stop evading.
@ssam00 - What do you consider "anti-Islamic" in his outlook?
This is more proof that one's religious self-identity reveals nothing about that person's character or social values.
@darklordsma
it was a collective effort by majority of the turks to annihilate all armenians. it has nothing to do with individualism. what's your point?
@Afaunman I read the wiki page on Al-Razi which has a long section on his views on religion, mainly Islam. He has harshly criticized all religions including Islam and has called the Quran "a work which recounts ancient myths, and which at the same time is full of contradictions and does not contain any useful information or explanation. "
@batmanthe Well fro starters he said something like most of the scientists and mathematicians of ancient times were from the Muslim world which is not quite correct. While there were many leading intellectuals who were born Muslim, they didn't constitute the majority of the intelligentsia; there were many pioneers from China and South Asia too. Moreover, many of these "Muslim" scientists (eg., Al Razi) were quite anti-Islamic in their outlook.
@failedassassin
FYI: Mises Institute heavyweight Walter Block is an atheist. I think Butler Shaffer is as well, plus probably several other Mises Institute scholars. :)
didn't these people commit genocide against the armenians and still denying it? turks, islam and freedom? what a joke!
The problem with Islam isn't the fundamentalists, it is Islam's fundamentals that is the problem.
I am from Turkey and a secularist Muslim. Mustafa Akyol is a liberal for sure. He cares for civil rights, freedom of speech etc. But deep down he is still a passionate neo-ottoman. He is also an advocate of intelligent design.
Unfortunately every conservative in this world is doomed to have pseudoscientific beliefs. Wearing suits and ties, speaking English, promoting liberalism is not enough.
I also want to add .. I honestly cannot understand those who call themselves secularists in turkey ...... secularism means neutrality .. and tolerance .. why secularists in turkey are dogmatic and want to force women to abandon their hejab .. people are free to choose religion , belief and others ............
@ssam00 Where are you getting this? What did Tucker say that was ignorant. He didn't really even make any claims or try to force some point of view.
Since peaceful isn't consistent with the writings of the Qur'an, the Hadith, and the bioagraphy of Muhammad's life; I can't take the idea of a peaceful or liberty loving Islam seriously. People who've studied the actually writings to any significant degree aren't going to be so easily duped.
@yuppyguitar1 I've noticed none who make a point of bringing up religion, and relatively few who have even so much as mentioned it. Even the ones who are clearly religious, such as Tom Woods who has written books about Catholicism, does not throw religion into the mix when discussing economic issues, or even historical ones, where it might actually have some relevance. I believe they are well aware of your concern (which I share).
Not this nonsense again. It seems Jeffery Tucker is determined to convince everyone once and for all that Islam is inherently a religion of peace and liberty. Well, sure..but only if you repudiate and/or ignore the words of its most revered prophet. Jeffery can live in a state of dhimmitude all he likes, but I think I will pass. Why not take the Koran to mean what it says? Jeffery Tucker needs to let this line of thought go. Who knows though, maybe he's considering converting. Islam 4 Breakfast.
@macornelius. Again, you have evidence to the contrary if you consider the logical consequence of having fidelity to reason. It's to take him at his word when he claimed to be an advocate of reason. Rand, Rothbard, were indeed different people but were very opinionated and would've mentioned if Mises wasn't an atheist. As for a citation, you can read "Mises Debunks the Religious Case for the State" on mises.org. The term agnostic epistemologically makes him a so-called "weak" atheist.
You told us to watch the speech...but no link.
@NobiscumDeus1 I was replying to your original comment, perhaps that was unclear. To clarify, my intention was to convey that Christianity is fundamentally as bad as Islam as you described it in your first comment, luckily, modern Christians don't act as they used to. However, there are still major problems in politics, social tolerance, and the science class, which should be a great boon for rationalism, but is one of the battlegrounds because of the push for creationism.
@Intellisecular [citation needed]
@Intellisecular No, you said “Rand, Rothbard, [sic] were indeed different people but were very opinionated and would've mentioned if Mises wasn't an atheist” which is complete nonsense.
I copied and pasted; I didn't make anything up and I didn't quote anything out of context (unlike you just quoting yourself).
And the agnostic=atheist line is bullshit, which I've already covered. That is not the way those words have ever been in common use.
@GUNNERBOYZ Hamid was a ruler, which means that he by definition did many terrible things -- albeit not on a scale comparable to the crimes committed by his successors. The bloodletting committed by his government came in the context of regional wars outside Turkey, and revolutionary agitation by Armenian nationalists within. His conduct was similar to that of many other rulers, Muslim and non-Muslim, who put down uprisings. The problem isn't Islam per se -- it's the State.
Good video, generally. But if I may indulge my pedantic side for a moment: Avicenna is Ibn Sina, not Ibn Rushd, who is Averroes. Also, in the lecture, Akyol referred to 'algebra' as derived from someone called 'Al-Jabr'; in fact, it comes from the title of an Arabic book (on mathematics) called 'Al-jabr wa l-muqabala' by the mathematician Al-Khwarizmi; but Akyol was right to say the latter's name gives 'algorithm'.
@macornelius. I'm looking for it, and while I am looking for it, consider a few things. You're presuming Mises believed in God. What evidence do you have that would lead you to believe that? It shouldn't come as a surprise. If you've read "Human Action" you'll see that Mises, like Rand, considered reason our basic means of acquiring knowledge. Rothbard was an atheist. George Reisman is an atheist. If you've studied this stuff it shouldn't come as a surprise.
@NobiscumDeus1 no it has gone through its angst-y teenage time and has matured but christians have and still do try to influence law in its favor.
@MsWanderer1 As long as that applies to all religions and not just Islam.
interesting that mises media put a video up on islam... i took a class on islam a little while ago and apparently the koran talks a lot about property rights and basically defends the libertarian position much like the bible does
I'm all for muslim liberty... provided the faiths mainstream attitudes are adequately reformed.That is definitely not the case yet, jihad is still waged and encouraged centuries on and sharia still is popular in muslim majority countries
@NobiscumDeus1 You could replace "Islam" in your comment with "Christianity" and the comment would still be accurate. Luckily, most Christians don't take their religious doctrine as seriously as it used to, and the ones that do are tempered by secular laws.
@darkmossie633
The best way to beat the Islamists is through Islam.
It is just that the worst groups tend to get the most funding from US allies like Saudi Arabia & other Gulf regimes, and that for a long time these worst of the worst groups were proxies in the cold war.
Try to be less fearful.
36 dislikes?! Holy cow...
He has a strong Turkish accent, doesn't he :-) How come this guy speaks native English accent?
@marekknowak
thx :)
@Intellisecular «You're presuming Mises believed in God.»
No, I'm not.
«What evidence do you have that would lead you to believe that?»
I don't; that's one reason I don't believe that. I also have no evidence to the contrary.
«It shouldn't come as a surprise.»
It wouldn't.
«Rand, Rothbard, Resiman, blah blah blah…» are different than Mises and whatever they are/were is completely irrelevant to the point of what Mises was.
I want to give Islam a chance, I really do but everything I've seen in the contemporary sense doesn't give me many positives to go on. That said I fully agree that the Iraq invasion was a disaster and the foreign policy since WWII has been a complete disaster. I'm not anti-Israel but I am deeply opposed to providing them or anyone else in the Middle East foreign aid.
Foreign entanglements and all that...
-
With all due respect, the interviewer is utterly ignorant! The interviewee seems to be well informed.
@TrentEmberson. "pagan savages" Must be nice to use words divorced from the historical context that gave rise to them. Savage cultures looked to the supernatural when they lacked efficacy dealing with the world. It was the Pagans that rose humanity above savagery. Read Hamilton's "The Greek Way" and Malinowski's works on superstition. Rand would call you a thief of concepts. Instead of evading, why not have the courage, and intellectual honesty, to see the world as it is?
@ZombieX13. Don't believe their (Tucker's and Akyol's) distortions of history. Read Ibn Warraq's "Why I Am Not A Muslim" and Bat Ye'or's "The Decline of Eastern Christianity: From Jihad to Dhimmitude" .
@MsWanderer1 Well, if you look through history, religion was merely the first form of government. Then you have social government, which now is about ready to die out, and is moving towards corporate governments, or a single world government. One day, someone will say, "why the hell do people have their own governments and just not use the world government"
@NobiscumDeus1 ummm all religions care about conversion and conserving their religion, and any religion would love to impose its morals system via government all major ones have at one point in history and none have turned out too good.
*bot @1:28
@NobiscumDeus1 Judaism is also very fascist and demands obedience to the rabbinic masters, do you condemn that as well or just pick on Islam?
I read something interesting about differences between Islam and Christianity.
In Islam, people must die for their God and where Christians' God died for all sinners.
@NobiscumDeus1
Submission to GOD not people & materialism.
I really wish people like you, who claim to be so " open minded " wouldn't be "Close minded" when it comes to religion and actually read into it instead of assuming.
@failedassassin There are atheist fans of Mises. :p
@FreedomZealot
Ottoman Turks started the massacres of Armenians in late 19th century under Sultan Hamid and Young Turks finalized it as a Genocide in 1915. Study history before showcasing your own ignorance. Plus both of my grandparents families were butchered by Turks. I know this story first hand unlike you and I carry the awful memories of the barbaric massacres passed on to me by my family. Modern Turkey denies the genocide. The genocide of Native Americans was as horryfying. Now you know!
I have not like one of jeffery interviews
what a disappointment, mises institute
@failedassassin Openly atheist? Yuck. One need not proclaim their lack of faith. Some find it disturbing. lol
Just like a libertarian boot "its the state" LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@macornelius. Mises was an atheist.
@ssam00 - What do you consider "anti-Islamic" in his outlook?