Number 1 Home Engine Builder Mistake
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Bore taper is one of those things nobody pays attention to until they have a problem. Here's what you need to know.
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I see that lots of people have commented about using ridge reamers. I never use them and here's why. The area above the ridge as well as the area below where the rings travel at the bottom of the bore are your guides. I NEVER use a dingle berry type hone unless it's a quick freshen-up on an engine
i know to be relatively perfect...only to seat the rings.
If I'm honing with a fixed stone type of hone, I am trusting the area above the ridge to keep the stones in true alignment with the original bore...same for the area at the bottom of the stroke. Cut the ridge away, and you lose that top guide, and your chances for creating taper skyrocket.
Amen.
I totally agree Tony, but I want to add some info. If there is enough taper that the cylinders need bored, it should be done by a machinist with a proper boring machine, but if you're like me and can't afford that, the best way to do it yourself is with a boring hone, which holds the stones perfectly square to eliminate taper. If you're too poor for one of those, then yes, you're absolutely right, Tony, leave the ridge on top as a guide, do not cut it out with a ridge reamer. Finally, dingle berry hones should only be used to create a crosshatch pattern after boring, or if boring isn't necessary and the original crosshatch is worn off.
I can just imagine someone out there trying to bore a block with a dingle berry hone... the hone would wear out before you got one cylinder done!
Yeah you nailed it Tony, a ridge reamer is not a welcome tool in anyones tool box.
Still tho' why prefer 3 stone glaze breakers over a dingle ball?
Ive used both...the 3 stone for 30+ years...but when i had my first experience with the proper size dingleball stone, i felt the crosshatch pattern and grit was more suited to my taste, as in more even pressure and better finished product, once i really discovered them.
Maybe its more personal preference?
@@williamstamper442 The dingleberry has no structure...it's incapable of any sort of correction on the cylinder walls other than creating cross hatch. A 3 stone can take out waves, a dingle can only make them worse
what about just giving them a bit of smoothing down with emery cloth like 800 grit or so by hand, not too heavy with it, just a smoothing of the ridge lip? in smooth, and even strokes or turns of course to keep the cylinder consistent for round
Never believe you know everything. Your brain stops listening when something important comes along. This channel is bringing back a lot of common sense from the grave.
Hi Uncle Tony, the number one engine mistake is forgetting to clean up the yard the night before, and stepping in dog shit, and getting it all over the garage floor until it smells like a truck stop mens room....ew
AGAIN. I learned more here in 6 minutes than I would have in a week long class. You're the man Tony!
When the national treasure speaks, you better listen.
When you remove .012" that's no longer honing.
Holy cow he must have been sitting there the whole weekend.
to be fair that's probably partially from normal wear
Agree - .006" per side is a considerable amount via hone.
Sounds like boring the hard way, and not willing to have it machined bored.
Number one Home Builder Mistakes mistake, not taking Uncle Tonys advice on Anything. This is crucial, pay attention...Cheers from Quebec...
Like at 5:15?
This is dumb. Why not take it to the shop and get a proper cross hatch hone ? Honing by hand is dumb.
Partial honing jobs? .010 overbore with a stock used pistons and new rings? Sounds more like a high school or junkyard build.
@Boosted b18b1 Mr Seperatist to you punk..Peace...
For a street engine I think the rule of thumb is to Hone just to deglaze the cylinder for new rings, or Bore to true up the cylinder.
It's always a Bonus when your cylinders are true and you can just Hone and Go. Thanks Tony
400 grit is almost perfect only takes going in n out like 3 times and loading it up with cheap liquid wrench. Dereck from vice grip garage did a real good inexpensive build like that.
Yeah that’s all ur doing not getting rid of the ridge at the top of the cylinder.. if you have a big ridge the cylinder is worn.
You always make me feel like I am building engines with my dad, thanks Tony.
so it's like floating the valves but with the piston rings.
Never would of thought of that in a million years
Yeah, me either - I would have instantly suspected weak valve springs
Love how you give practical advice in a way that you dont have to have three MBA's and a PhD in engineering to understand and it's always useful advice.
You can't guess at the taper and out of round. Must be measured with a Mic. No amount of ring replacement is gonna fix that, you need machining. That's why rebuilt engines are not $500 bucks anymore.
No, you absolutely can measure it by ring gap. Out of round can be checked by backlighting the rings
@@UncleTonysGarage Yeah but tony what does a decent set of mics cost? you can get em reasonable and learn to use them. Never go astray by absolutely knowing. That's how I roll. :)
There are 100 places to learn to use a dial bore gauge. This is the only channel on UA-cam teaching how to use a ring and feeler gauge for a mic and explains the legit science behind it like knowing that gap difference/pi = bore taper. Just enjoy the channel for what it is and celebrate diversity!
I know how to use the various t-gauges and micrometers. It's a lot easier to drop a ring down the bore, push it flat with the top of an old piston, and check ring gap.
.003 of gap is .001 of taper, you're dividing circumference by about pi. I always ream the ridges because new sharp rings go slightly farther up the cylinder when you have new rod bearings. The new rings slam into the ridge breaking piston ring lands or rings. That bit me hard once. On the whole I agree, tho. I hate boring, too. I ream just enough to clean up ridge and quit, followed by honing evenly just enough to remove glaze. If the ridge is significant, I look for another block.
Every winning engine I ever built was a " loose " standard bore engine. In stock classes a nicely aged block and crank was my favorite. Yes you can still " blueprint " an engine like that.
It just takes a little work but pays off.
That's why you can have an ak-47 sitting in the corner covered in rust for a few years,rode hard and put away wet and stomp on the bolt to break the rust free,and she'll still fire and work like a champ all because of those looser tolerances! My drill sergeant told us that story one day while b.sing and comparing the M-16 against other rifles. Keep er loose boys!!! That's good for a few things,well,um,uh,but not everything! If you get my drift,lol!
I remember the old timers at the oval dirt track talking about loose engine's, we had a lot of fun without much money .
They build the qualifying engines for NASCAR that way - "Grenade Motors" that are built for around 10 laps.
This is the kind of wisdom that comes from practical experience. Once again, the lay scientist abides!🤘
Great advice , not ever engine needs a complete rebore . I did a 440 years ago in a 77 Cordoba it had one bad piston and rod journal . I replaced the bad piston with a stock standard piston, cut the crank 10 10 and honed and reringed it and did the heads . It ran great ! I did a lot of my drivers the same way and got years of service out of them .
On my engine, I did use a ridge reamer (was worried about snagging the rings on the way out). My cylinders were well in spec. I ran the hone keeping the pivots JUST within the cylinder, top to bottom, and just enough to break the glaze.
It may just be me but after 15 years a mess with engines I still have a machine shop do a hone when I have them check for flatness
Love the simple, no BS, to the point tutorials!!!
You'll never hear on any sponsor-heavy TV shows that you can use a standard piston in a .010" overbore! Or that you can measure taper with a ring and feeler gauges. Tony is working just like my dad and uncles used to - old school economy. Run what ya got.
For some kind of reason you keep me hypnoticed to my screen...Like your video's, no crap just pure info.. Thanks, from The Netherlands
Roll up your windows!!!
Ever watched "This Old Tony"? Excellent metal-fab entertainment. Binge watch him for some really nerdy jokes. After Uncle Tony of course
This Old Tony is freaking awesome, just as this channel is :)
Gordy Kilcollins I get a kick out of the witty banter on that channel
This Old Tony single handedly switched me from TV to UA-cam. Unfortunately it's hard to find anyone in Knoxville, TN who's heard of the channel. Maybe some Oakridge, TN lab engineers. They may Nerd-Out on that type of entertainment.
@@duncandmcgrath6290 damnit! Unfamiliar vocab! Time to look up "witty banter". Limited vocabulary round East Tennessee.
Yes that dude is hilarious. Welding Tips and Tricks is a great one if you want to learn to weld or just pick up pointers. Same kind of style.
Roll up your windows!!!
Great info, UT! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
This type of thinking is what separates the real mechanic from the shade tree. I'm in complete agreement with this guy. Straight, smoothe symmetrical bores are one of the two speed. secrets, the other being a true, straight and balanced rotating assembly.
Yeah I know a guy that ball honed his block to "clean up the walls". Damn cylinders were hour Glass shaped when he was done. Pretty much got a 40 over bore for his troubles.
If they are that worried about the little ridge all they have to do is take it out with a ridge reamer then it will be even with the rest of the cylinder and won't have to worry about breaking any rings
Yep, that's what we used to do.
Tony doesn't seem to find it necessary, or at least by watching his vids the last 2 years. I guess because he is focused on engine building with only the "essentials" of the home mechanic...
@@kramnull8962 yeah I've noticed several builds that they have done that they never used the ridge reamer and that's probably the way he grew up doing it but I was taught to use one and I understand what could happen if the rings did hit it so I always play it safe and use it but I like watching his videos.
Uncle Tony the postman nor rain snow he will always come through with a great way to explain how to make the most of your engine
Ps hi uncle Kathy regards Anthony from down under
Did you hear that? Umm,not if I turn the stereo up more I don't! Lol! Some people's idea of "working on their car" as Spock from the original Star Trek says, "fascinating!" lmbo!!! Gotta love it!!! The only way I enjoy snow now as a semi older fuck,is through pictures... Thanks again y'all,stay toasty!!!
Remember Bob Glidden back in the old days racing ProStock . He was totally against engine stands, he reckoned they stretched the bores. He used to rebuild most of his engines on the ground in hotel parking lots. I wonder what his back is like nowadays
mostly decomposed
They make a tool for that my father had one . We used it on all of our rebuilds . It was a ring something tool . There are people that feel if you don't take it out you will bust your rings ! My father was a tool maker he like stuff just so . He had an micromader to check the boar for even & to make sure you didn't have to boar it out . He was a fussy machinist . He showed me how to do a bitchin job on the heads
I think Ridge Reamer is the tool you mean.
Being a machinist myself, I can testify that most of us are what's known a "anal retentive". And that's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as you don't carry into all aspects of your life.
It usually just means that we understand how precise a job can be done, and we strive to do it that well or better.
The problems arise when we start expecting EVERYONE to behave this way in EVERYTHING they do.
Hey, it beats being "anal expulsive".
I guess.
Well said!
Sounds exactly like the symptoms of my f100 w 390. With 4.56 gears, it would 60 ft. fine then in 3rd gear it couldn't keep accelerating from 4 to 5.5k. Maybe I did same thing
Too much gear, unless you have 34"-40" tall tires. The FE engine, other than the 427, was a low RPM torque machine, much like a Pontiac or Olds 455. They didn't like a lot of RPM, nor did they need it, they made all their power below 6000, even the 428 CJ was a grunt engine. The 427 had a short stroke, large bore, and much bigger ports than the other FE engines.
You were trying to make it run like a small chevy which is very low on bottom end torque, they need the gear to get the RPM up enough to where they start using mechanical advantage to push things around. If you take an FE, long ram Mopar, Pontiac, or Olds and put a 3.73 or deeper gear behind them, they will run slower every time than they would with a 2.73-3.55 gear. They just don't need it.
I've run 12s with a 2.56 gear and a mild 7:1 compression 400 Pontiac in my '65 GTO, stock converter, no power adders either. The 70 GTO was 4100lbs going down the track, 2.93 gears, stock converter, 8:1 compression 455, it ran high 12s shifting at 5500 all engine. It would also smoke the 275 65 15s from idle up to 40mph by just whacking the throttle, and carry it for 1/8 mile easily. Pro stock burnouts without holding the brakes are tons of fun.
You let the torque work for you rather than trying to make it do something it is not designed to do. You are racing farther than 60 feet, unless you are racing across the intersection or to the end of a semi.
Lots of possibilities there...
It takes a few things a little different to get a 390 to make good power up towards the top, a long duration cam, and big compression are the best place to start. FE Fords don't breathe particularly well - crappy cylinder heads (except 427 high risers, tunnel ports, or Cammers) - they had halfway decent (just ok) intake ports but LOUSY exhausts so it takes longer duration to get good airflow in and out. The higher compression makes a good "crutch", if you can't pack the cylinder with good airflow squeezing what you do get harder than you normally would have to gets the job done.
That advice was shared with me by John Vermeersch - the man who ran the Ford Performance department when FEs were common.
Another tip for any engine - pay attention to maximum ignition timing, too much and you can have detonation you won't be able to hear but the pressure spikes will make the compression rings flutter and lose their seal at high RPM.
Maybe valve float from weak or improperly set up springs ?
@@sean8662 possibly, but you'll usually feel a miss
@@SweatyFatGuy
While much of what you say is true - those 455s just happen to have another 65 cubic inches that the 390 Ford doesn't, that makes a HUGE difference in the amount of torque available!
That 390 just doesn't have that extra size to work with.
It sounds like he could have any one of so many problems.
We used dingleball hones in aircraft engines (old-school pistons) to get the 45deg crosshatch. And that was a pain in the ass moving the hone up and down fast enough!
If the top piston groove has too much gap, be careful where you put the ring spacer after machining. I've seen a 383 tap like crazy, as the rings hit the top ridge. Little known fact...ciggie smoke kills corona-chicken-super-virus, so you're good.
They make a tool just for that.
My dad has one, I used it to do my engines before i started boring them over when I could actually spend money on them. I have a couple virgin Pontiac 400 short blocks now, been thinking of doing a very low buck build and see how fast I can make them go.
Got to be careful with ridge reamers, a crappy one or one used wrong will chew up the top of a bore that could have been saved.
@William Johnson That's it^___^ it's been 20years since I've needed one!
I was taught that if there was enough of a ridge at the top of the bore for you to feel and catch with your fingernail, it was time to re-bore the engine. Ridge removers were great on old time 20s and 30s engines when folks would re ring a worn engine and it would go O.K, but for today's engines- No.
I'm scrubbing rust off my rear end 😘😊❤
BRING THAT TRUTH TONY!
Oops! Didn't finish my thought. We used a ridge reamer then used the ultra precise gauge to see if we were good. Finger nail. As long as everything measured straight and round (using a new top ring and feeler gauge, also tacitly precise). If everything checked out, used a flex hone just to scuff up the glaze. Block was done. 😎
They damn near bore the block
.010" with hand honing only 3" into the cylinder. Ive bought a few motors done like that.Instantly have to bore it .030" just to get a common made piston.They dont make many .020" bore pistons these days and we always hone w/torque plates and you're correct about over boring we have guys at the track that want us to bore em 060" and we dont really like going over 040" on stock cast iron blocks and thats for stroker combo and thats after a thorough sonic test inspection. Siamese bore blocks are better at handling a big bore of course. For drag racing we do 1/2 an 3/4 fills which help keep the roundness to the cylinders with bigger bores.Love the videos keep em coming.Mopars for life.
I could never understand the obsession people have with overboring. They mindlessly go to it, like it's required, but they are not really building a competition engine to begin with. Many an old block that was not replaceable was ruined by this.
Doktor Jeep Exactly. I made a similar comment here.
Perfect setup for derby cars when the engines run out of water they don't cease up because the Pistons are loose at the top and I've seen that with the dead set of valve springs right a certain RPM the Springs would not work properly especially when you have a solid lift engine cam I mean and you don't loosen up the Rockers when you put it in storage for the winter
Hey Tony hope you’re weekend is great!!
whacky pax
😈😈
hot rods makes my dick Hard!!!!
why would anyone try to hoan that witness mark of the top of the cylinder walls? they make a tool called a cylinder ridge reamer that actually removes those marks perfectly ....but yeah man im with you if the finger nail cant catch it ...leave it
Cant argue with free.
Whatever happened to ridge reamers? That's what we used to use to take that edge off.
I'll second that, Inquiring minds want to know lol
I never heard of removing the ring ridge by honing. If the ridge was that bad I don't see how they got the pistons out the bores in the first place.
Dave M out the bottom
Love it. Video without the fluff, music and other BS. Straightforward facts from a seasoned muscle car veteran. Thanks Tony, keep it real.
Faaark - I might go and build that 383 I have in the shed. It is a 70 block and it's about the same as your's.
You said it backwards, .003 gap difference is .001 bore diameter taper. Very interesting concept.
tony levand Glad someone else heard that and knew Uncle Tony reversed the ratio. Pi =3.14
I agree.
This 383 I rebuilt was my first engine rebuild, I went in blind with minimal knowledge and a few you tube videos under my belt. lol. But with most of my life spent in hands on fashion, I bought a three stone honing tool and set about de-glazing the cylinders.
In the end the results were quite satisfying and boosted my confidence level. Wish I could post a pic. There is a video on my channel of my fury build with a couple shots in it if anyone is interested.... cheers uncles!
Thought there was a ridge reamer tool for that?
Yea? Ive got one if that bore ridge is too big cracked rings result!!
Ridge reamers are only supposed to be used when the ridge is so deep you can't get the pistons out if the rings catch on it. If it's that bad, it will have to be bored anyway, and a machine shop won't care if there's a ridge or not, but if you're boring it yourself with a hone, you need the top ridge to guide your boring hone so you don't create more taper, as Tony just pointed out.
I know what it’s for. I’m saying if it’s not that bad you can take some of it off before you hone it. He talking about home rebuilders. Not professionals.
@@dalehume4134 I'm saying, if it's not that bad, there is no reason to ream it off. Professionals won't mess with it either way, they'll just send it to a machine shop anyway. Tony's whole point here is that you need the ridge on top, because it's the only part of the cylinder that doesn't wear, along with the very bottom, so you need both to keep the bore square when honing at home.
40 years ago I had one, a Lisle ridge reamer.
If you don't know what your doing,take it to a machine shop that does. For plain drivers I would use a ridge reamer and a light glaze breaker hone and that's it. For performance,only a machine shop that I trust.
That's what ridge reamers are made for isn't it? I've seen rings break from hitting the top ridge of a bore. As far as overboring an engine...on street/weekend fun drivers, after I take the ridge off, I only have the machine shop take them far enough to clean up the bore and give the proper ring finish. Hell, I just had the block from my 77 GMC K-35 sleeved back to standard so I could keep the original block (after 3 rebuilds, my 454 was already .060 over). I take the ridges off in my home shop but leave boring/honing to the local pros. For my race engines though, every block gets measured for alignment/core shift, checked for cracks, then X-rayed for cylinder wall thickness. Believe it or not, I prefer to start with a stock 400", two bolt main GM casting. The 400 sbc has a bad reputation for overheating but I love them! Why 2 bolt mains? 2 reasons...1)GM didn't do ANY 4 bolt blocks correctly back in the day. They drilled the outer bolts straight into the main webs when they should've "splayed" the outer bolts. Drilling them straight promotes cracks in the webs. 2) ANY 400 sbc is tough to find these days. Guys (or girls) that have a 4 bolt main 400 (or anything else) think they have something special, therefore, worth A LOT of cash. I'm better off buying aftermarket 4 bolt main caps and having the block drilled for the splayed outer bolts. I currently run a stock GM cast 400 block in my Camaro street/strip car. It's bored/stroked/clearanced (with a Callies crank and 6" rods) to 427". It runs low 9s in an all steel 74 Camaro. Of course it's got a full cage and safety equipment but it's also street legal. Yes, my wife and I do take it out on the street on nice Sunday afternoons just to terrorize the local "tuner car" children lol!
People! if you want the ridge gone! GET A RIDGE CUTTER!!!!! Then Hon! Sloppy, Ignorance is what that is! It's a very simple and easy process Fer Pete Sake^__^ You can bareee one from yer local auto parts store
Tony, your math is backwards... pi times diameter is circumference. Pi is 3 1/7. So 3 thou ring gap equals 1 thou diameter. If your gap is 6 thou different top and bottom, 2 thou taper.
I pulled the heads on my 2009 Silverado 5.3l with 301k miles on it to do an AFM/DOD delete and literally had 0 and I mean completely 0 witness marks/ring grove, I guess that's LS engines for ya lol
Chrysler for sure , Not true for SBC. I was shocked when I tore down my RV's 440 what a weak block and especially cylinder wall design it is so thin I could not believe my eyes!
They never got rid of the taper and made it worse. I can see that as a major problem for at home engine builders. But in AZ the baddest enemy to an engine is dust. It will kill an engine in short order. When I was working for a machine shop that did machining for customer builds that was the biggest problem over all. Guys wouldn't seal up their engines and when the dust storms hit, the entire engine would get inundated with dust. This is because we used cast blast and WD40 to keep the engines from rusting. The second most prevalent problem out here comes when guys build Small Block Chevy's, use too much silicone to get the oil pan to seal and don't change the oil pump pickup. When the oil pump screen gets clogged it dislodges itself from one side of the pickup so that the engine doesn't starve for oil then when w bead of silicone is pinched off it get ingested by the pump and can snap the oil pump drive shaft in half, and you don't know it until either you see it on the pressure gauge, or the oil light comes on or it just locks up. And if all you have is an idiot light the bulb or the sensor could have gone bad, and almost nobody checks them. But I have seen what Uncle Tony is talking about. Maybe it's because I didn't hang around with people who didn't know how to build and engine and lacked the finer points like honing is worthless on a worn bore because you'll never get it square. (By square I mean straight bores in line with the crankshaft). If you've never rebuilt an engine before, keep watching Uncle Tony, watch Anthony at Homotorsports as he goes through an AMC engine, in which he details all the steps to rebuild any engine plus what is specific to AMC, and read a good book on the subject. Both of these guys really know their stuff and it never hurts to have a good manual in your shop!
So you rebuilt the engine ,why would you have not found that problem ,when you did the piston to cylinder wall clearance ck ,which on average is .002 ..or better still ,you new the engine was re-built by someone else ,because of the honing , why no taper ck ,too see if it needed boring..We are talking basic stuff here.....I agree first timers not doing there home work and just jumping in feet first ,But i would think not about a season Mechanic ....PS if the ridge is big enough to use a R-reamer ,needs boring .In my world.
I see it all the time, people selling 350s and stuff asking like 500-800 for a bare block because it has been bored 60 over so you get those extra cubic inches. But makes the engine weaker and useless if it ever needs bore work. Then you have the people that think they can put a 60 or 80 over bore on something like a 305 and it's all of a sudden a 350.
Great Video on how to find other people's screw ups. LOL
Was always taught by my Uncle to just hone up and down. Until there was a nice clean cross hatch. Pattern in the area the piston traveled.
Don't ever over do it. And check often until you get that pattern!
Now as Far as boring goes plus 10 is okay for most Engines. When you try 20 or gasp 30. You can ruin a block and waste a lot of time.
My Uncle had a Friend. He Bored his Chevy 409 .030 and ended up with water in his Oil Pan! LOL
Tony you are amazing. I would never thought of that. I figured nosing over on top end would be fuel air or ignition. Not taper but makes total sense. You have a great way of explaining things even I can understand
Are you for real saying you can use a standard piston in a 10thou over bore , now which rings would you recommend. And saying your weakening the block by boring a engine is total bullshit , maybe at 80 thou
I've never heard of going .010" over and using the same piston. Wouldn't piston to wall clearance be too big???
Witness marks are also caused by the pistons natural tendency to slap in the bore. The wrist pin, which usually runs perpendicular to the cylinder bank, causes the ring to off center compress at the moment it changes its up and down direction. Of course combustion plays its part but there are more than a couple of factors for witness marks.
I am not so happy with your advice about using the std. pistons in a 10 thou bore as I think the clearance becomes too big for sealing and piston slap for normal road use. Race only advice ?
I never use ridge reamers. If the block has enough of a ridge you can't knock the pistons past it, it really needs to be bored. I bore most everything if the taper is bad. When hand honing I use a Sunnen or Lisle ridged hone in a three step process (roughing stones to clean it up and remove material, finishing stones to set the proper texture, then a plateau stone/brush to give the final finish). Sometimes I will use a very fine dingleberry hone at the very end instead of the plateau setup if the rings call for an extremely fine finish. I usually can keep the taper within about a half thou hand honing. But I run my engines loose so its not an issue with a half thou taper.
I just have it ridge reamed and then hone it. I agree with you on over boring, you lose strength. Chuckle at these other guys on you tube who not only overbore but also boost the snot out of it, are gonna end up with a blown out cylinder at some point. The reason I have my rebuilds ridge reamed is I've heard tales of pistons getting stuck in the ridge after a rebuild, because tolerances might have changed and piston is traveling just a little farther up the cylinder.
Use a ridge reamer and then use an actual hone and not a glaze breaker. Something like a Lisle 15000 hone. You can make the cylinders round and straight with that. Those glaze breakers scream amateur hour
Tennessee snow is not like New York snow the problem with Tennessee snow and I saw it on the news when I lived there Nashville always has there snowplow in good shape for when it snows(that is singular)lol we had a storm down there about 1in and on I26 people abandoned there cars lol.I was taught when using a glaze breaker hone to do just that break the glaze not bore the cylinder get your broom out and clean up that snow lol
I ridge ream then start at bottom where there is no wear set hone tension as you lift up to worn portion hone speeds up push back down repeat. Re-set tension repeat as you hone it out you will rise higher and higher. And if you don't know how to measure the bore you shouldn't be boring s block because you should be measuring it as you go. I've hand honed 30 over no problem.
I follow your reasoning for leaving the top ridge alone but is it possible that the top ring (new set) could hit the ridge and crack the top ring. I’ve always used a ridge reamer and then hone the cylinders
This loonietoon thinks rings seal well when they are moving all over the piston ring grooves because he's afraid of correcting the cylinder bore. Run people run!
When it comes to Blocks I always just send it to machine shop to bore /hone then I know its good to go with new pistons/rings, cost couple hundred $ and worth it, you got a runner!
One of the best rigs I ever had was a Ramcharger with a 360...holley throttle body...tuff sumbitch
Could a vacuum gauge have told you anything on that 383?
Did you realize after thinking about the hone job for a bit or did you take it apart and measure the taper to figure it out?
Thanks for another great bit of information.
It had odd marks on the bores, so I measured them and found it that way
crankcase pressure is the way to tell if it's happening
Your theory sounds like BS? .012 with a hone? I think you love to hear yourself talk.
Just another reason to take it to an engine machine shop . Backyard machinists are the reason why real machine is like me are working LOL
Call them "job security"! 😆
Not everyone can afford the machine shop. That's the beauty of the hobby. Build your own on your own. Nothing better than turning that key and saying "I did this! "
Love your videos keep up the amazing work
Excellent video all is info to guys who are problem solving an engine with machine mistakes robbing your wallet an sanity love it
I've seen it too many times. I don't know if you still get one. But my grandfather gave me a special tool called a ridge reamer that cleans this right up. Its carbide tipped and a pass or 2 and you're good
Great advice! Thanks!
I am guessing that one needs to uninstall the pistons and rods out of the bottom of the engine! I have been doing it all wrong! Don't necessarily understand how one overbores a block from the bottom. Only engines I know that one has to do that are old Mercury outboard, two stroke, inline, blind hole boat engines. I want to believe that this is to teach people not to go crazy with the the ring ridger. Stop being a fool ass hack and remove material from the block with a hone thinking you can go back with stock rings. I am pretty sure that this is what the man is talking about. Building engines is a great skill. One truly does feel their way through the process. There is a ridge at both ends. Don't make your cylinders a hourglass. Pure and simple. From a long haired MOPAR guy to another. .... You are truly talented Tony.
Dude, you are the freaking man. The things you talk about might be one time experiences but the physic concepts apply throughout the the engine entirely. I always knew about valve springs not keeping up but I never ever ever heard anyone mention pistons rings not keeping up.
Just keep honing uncle Kathy....sorry dude been drinking...don,t tell her i said this...love you
I've autopsied an engine like this. Fresh rebuild, honed by hand with a drill, and ran fine all the way through break in period. Once the engine was broken in and the guy took it up the rpm range, it got worse and worse each time.
~Suddenly lost all power and pushed a bunch of oil through it. The cylinders had been honed out to a taper from bottom to top , and the rings all came out in multiple pieces from opening and closing.
It had to be taken to a machine shop to be honed .030 to overcome the taper, and a bunch of new parts. Nothing like paying for a second rebuild, right after the first rebuild.
Great advice, he is spot on. Been building for years and have never failed with this rule.
Excellent lesson. I never would have though to use an old ring and a feeler gauge, had you not taught it.
Archaeologist and Detective.. discovery of evidence left behind by early Man, who was here before me and what did He leave.. I got really lucky with my 318 swap.. Always Honest.. Thanks Uncle Tony Oi oi oi..
Ive noticed that newer engines like 1990+ seem to have way less bore wear even with high mileage engines. Ive torn apart a 5.3L ls engine with like 200,000 miles and there isn't even really a ring ridge at all. Same with the 350 vortec i pulled from the junkyard last year almost no ring ridge. Not sure why they don't wear as fast but now ill only get engines from the junkyard from 1990's and newer pickup trucks for a hot rod project because machine work is so expensive might as well just find a different motor lol.
I think they're using harder metal in the bores.
LOL My brother moved from central NM to Dallas TX to get away from cold the first year he was there they had an ice storm!
Number 1 Mistake: If you don't know what you're doing, going ahead and doing it anyway.
Uncle Tony, Noo Yawkers go to Florida to avoid the snow, not Tennessee! 😁
Blues Dude Las Vegas also!
Its crazy but when I went to Florida not too long ago I felt like I was in Jersey. They even had a Wawa with rich old men driving cars worth $100,000-$200,000. Complaining about the price of coffee for the fourth time that week.
Southern Florida is like the North while northern Florida is like the South.
Here is a dumb question. When you say “as long as the bore is not out of spec by more than 0.010, you’re good to go (without an overbore). Do you mean you can just use the same pistons (in the same holes), get new standard sized pistons, or get new pistons that are 10 over. All of the above assuming keeping it low dollar and no boring of the block.
You can reuse the stock pistons at .010. You will need oversize rings, though
Thanks for sharing your knowledge in these videos. I enjoy hearing about engine problems and what the diagnoses was. Wouldn't it take a difference of 3 thousandths of an inch ring gap to get 1 thousandths of an inch bore taper?
Uncle Tony dropping some knowledge on us.
I stopped working on cars a long time ago but I love this show
If you inspect and measure things rather than assuming and slapping stuff together you usually avoid a lot of problems later on. :-)
Why you would build an engine and not check the bore, piston clearance, ring gap, etc. and just slap it together blows my mind... just caused a hole lot of waisted time and money over something that takes less then an hour to do meticulously top middle bottom parallel and perpendicular to the crank on every cylinder for real why not....
Cause I fucked up...and look, I got to make a video about it and earned a days pay in the process. Not bad, huh?
Good video but it seems like you're referring to what we call the "ridge" as "witness marks"? On a very well worn bore we use a ridge reamer to reduce that ridge before disassembly. Anyone that's honing it off is certainly making a big mess!
The witness marks are underneath the ridge
Okay, everybody hates boring. Suppose I had an engine that had been bored with a taper like this one, is is possible to find rings that have been heat-treated to give them more spring? I confess I don't even know how to research this. Can you answer this question or tell me how to research it myself?
No, at some point you simply need to bore it
Wow adjustable pistons rings that's a new one for all the rev heads . Where can I get a set !! .