Hi Ronnie, Thank you very much! Yes, it is an energy recovery ventilator, ERV, (or heat recovery ventilator). Essentially, a heat exchanger to get fresh air into the house, while keeping the heat inside (or outside in the summer). They are great and very important for well insulated homes that don't use forced air. Cheers, Katha
We have radiant heating and cooling with heat pump in our house. Two things regarding the cooling: 1. Floor will be cold. Sometimes it is refreshing to walk on cold floor during hot summer days. Sometimes it is not very pleasant. We have pipes installed in floor and ceiling, and we can choose to use only ceiling for cooling. In my experience ceiling cooling is better option. 2. Relative humidity IS issue. If there is no other way to remove moisture from air, when air is cooled, relative humidity increases. If you bring temperature down rapidly, even condensation could apear.
Hi @lazarojnenad. Thank you very much for sharing your experience. I think that can be valuable for viewers. Would you like to get on the channel to present your system sometime? katha@upheatacademy.com Warm regards, Katha
Hi@@NetZeroTech. I don't think it will be of much value to your viewers. I'm located in Eastern Europe, and we do things a bit differently than in the US. Our house is much smaller than the typical US home. It is built out of aerated concrete blocks, and here we use pan and tilt windows (ours are triple-glazed). Our radiant heating system is mostly DIY, with an air-to-water heat pump. The main difference is that we have completely different prices and economics, so a lot of things do not apply to the US and vice versa. Warm regards to you, Katha. Keep uploading.
Thank very much for sharing, Nenad. This is very interesting. I grew up mostly in Germany. I appreciate the encouragement to keep uploading. Great work on the mostly DIY radiant heating system and the triple-glazed windows! That's awesome. Cheers, Katha
Thanks for sharing this video. If he is installing a HRV, is it not easier to just have a HVAC for cooling and HRV? I am researching on what to do with my home renovation and addition. I am still confused with the cooling side of things if condensation might be an issue.
Great question! I’m actually already working on a video on HRVs. These things might be helpful to consider: 1. Retrofit: Which system do you currently have installed? Do you have ducts? 2. ROI: What’s your thought on upfront cost and payback period? (if you are comfortable in public) 3. What climate do you live in regarding both temperature and humidity? - This construction takes place in Colorado, a low-humidity climate. It sounds like it’s more humid in your area. 4. What will the insulation look like? I’m asking tons of questions and have not given you a single answer. 😂 This info would be super helpful, though. Keep in mind, the most important variable is your installer. Thank you! Katha katha@upheatacademy.com
@@NetZeroTech The house currently has a ducted system. 1000 SQF. The plan is to add 2000 SQF to the house with infloor heating (air to water heat pump) and possibly use ducts in the ceiling for cooling. It’s a personal home. Not really worried about ROI. I am located in Canada. The government is offering a 40K for all energy upgrades- interest free for 10 years. I might tap into that. For insulation and looking at a combination or spray foam and rock wool insulation.
The governmental program is awesome in Canada! I am a huge fan of in-floor heating. Sounds like you don't want cold floors for cooling. So, ducts in the ceiling seem like a good choice. I also like your thoughts on insulation, if the r-values are high, especially in the ceiling. Dennis has R51 in the ceiling and R32 in the walls, which is quite good. The reason Dennis is using the floor and not HVAC for cooling as well is that that gives you a more steady and even temperature throughout the home and no air breezes or hot and cold spots. He has no humidity issues, because it's so dry in Colorado. So, ceiling fans and HRV work great. One big thing to consider with radiant is, it doesn't give you any dust or allergens, which air-forced ducted systems can over the years, if you don't clean them, which adds to the maintenance costs. Overall, I think you are on the right track. I don't think you need HVAC cooling, if your r-values are high enough (including the windows, so you don't get condensation on the windows) and your air gets exchanged with an HRV. That would be a bit less upfront, I think. Hope this helps. Watch out for the video on ERV / HRV. I also want to look more into the upfront calculations of these different options. Thank you! Katha
There are pros/cons to hydronic radiant floor heating, but cooling the floors without dehumidification is asking for problems. If you're cooling the floor in the presence of moist air then you WILL have condensation issues. This is where traditional HVAC ducting is still superior - it can handle heating, cooling, and/or dehumidification as needed.
Great point. Thank you for sharing. This build is in a very dry climate and equipped with an ERV, energy recovery ventilator. ERVs can maintain the temperature and appropriate humidity. Cheers, Katha
@@NetZeroTech Good to know this is in a dry climate. But a point of clarification for anyone else... ERVs will attempt to balance some of the humidity, but they will not truly reduce it. In areas with higher seasonal humidity the ERV manufacturers will tell customers to slow down the fan speed so the home isn't being filled with humidity from outside. Dehumidification is key for summer comfort, unless you're in a truly arid climate.
In summary, I'd say, an ERV can help manage humidity to a large extent. To effectively control moisture levels indoors in extremely humid areas, a dehumidifier is the way to go. In detail, an ERV helps to improve indoor air quality by exchanging stale indoor air with fresh outdoor air while also recovering energy from the outgoing air to precondition the incoming air. ERVs are particularly useful in humid climates because they can help manage humidity levels by transferring some of the moisture from the incoming air to the outgoing air during the exchange process. A dehumidifier, on the other hand, is specifically designed to reduce the humidity levels in a space by extracting moisture from the air. In very humid areas where the humidity levels remain high even with ventilation, a dehumidifier may be necessary to maintain a comfortable and healthy indoor environment. Dehumidifiers work independently of ventilation systems and can be particularly useful in basements, bathrooms, or other areas prone to excess moisture. Hope this aligns with your experience, @DeuceDeuceBravo. What climate do you live in? Thank you, Katha
If ductwork is to be installed anyway, why not install active cooling? Having worked on floor cooling, I've found that comfort is the problem, even in an arid climate. There's also things to consider, like fire season smoke. I've found that direct expansion cooling in a sealed system greatly mitigates the effects of wildfire smoke. Radiant floor heating is fantastic. Cooling, not so much.
Thank you 🙏, @@jomm5968. ERVs / HRVs require significantly less ductwork and are less expensive. The temperature is very stable with good insulation and geothermal. While it takes a few hours, geothermal can do the cooling seamlessly. Hope that makes sense. Thoughts? Katha 😀
have been dreaming on radiant heat I am thinking of going back to a system developed in the 1970s A solar thermal system with a drain down tank. They are super cheap if you source everything yourself. Depending upon how one supplies storage tanks and in my case also a water heatpump to do exactly what was done here. With a drain back system it is fairly simple.. Use flat plate or vacuum tube heat collector. a drain back tank a mixing valve to keep the water from being overly hot. A storage tank basically an electric water heater a pump to move the water thru the external loop with the drain back tank. So why this system? It drains when there is freezing so no need for anti freeze. It turns on once there is enough heat from the sun to make it efficient. Additionally will put a flat plate heat exchanger inline and a pump to move the water thru this half of the system. This allows separation of the drain back side from the domestic water side. all in all a 30 tube vaccum system can be sourced from 200 to 1200$ the drain back tank around $350 a balancing valve from around $100 a 1/20 pump for around $120 each for two pumps. The storage tank is not cheap but not nearly as much as a heat pump water heater which for a decent one I would imagine $2000. Just my two cents.. That said I live in lower zone 4 climate so the chances of snow are limited to 1 week
Thank you for sharing. That sounds very affordable. I wanna look more into these systems sometime. Do you know if it requires a lot of maintenance? It sounds like it needs to be combined with another heating system, though. And no cooling, right? Thank you, Katha
@@NetZeroTech the evacuated tubes generally require zero maintenace So long as the pump is installed correctly there should be no need for maintenace.. thermal sensors dont require any and the balancing valve should not either.. So from what I can determine going to far outlast a string inverter if that is what one is using for a PV system. These systems are used around the world but almost none here in the USA. My guess is when something is inexpensive marketing folks have limited profit.
@@NetZeroTech yes it does need to be combined with a separate cooling system. The biggest problem I see is using a combo unit with the tubing in the slab is that you likely reach dew point and end up with moisture on the floor. The best alternative is to use fan coils so that you can actually remove the moisture in the air. This is why air conditioners always have condensate drains .
"It settles" You're talking about BLOWN IN insulation. Fibrous products like fiberglass or cellulose. If you fill a cavity with spray foam, it's NOT settling. EVER. The worst that might happen is some of the bays, when improperly sprayed, may pull away, leaving gaps. A proper contractor will return to fix these install imperfections BEFORE YOU CLOSE THE WALL ASSEMBLY UP.
Hi @PhotonHerald. Yes, I completely agree. Thank you very much for sharing. I actually thought about commenting on this part, but I didn't want to get side-tracked into insulation. I just want to keep emphasizing the importance of insulation in my videos. Thank you, Katha
First off, comfort has NO ROI, if you're looking at that first & foremost, bad analysis. Multi stage is the best route to go & if that's 2 units, that allows a built in safety if one has a failure, your home will still be safe running on the other one.
Hi @ericscott3997, Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Redundancy is a good point, even if they rarely just completely fail all of a sudden. What do you think would change in the analysis, if comfort is the goal at all cost? Do you think variable speed significantly increases the comfort level compared with dual stage? Thanks, Katha
@@NetZeroTech I'm just a firm believer that if you're making the time & effort of a custom build, & the specialization of fully a hydronic system, you'd spend a little more to make it right. A 2 stage system is functional, but having the variable pump is a better long term option. Especially if the slab & home are above code in insulation value.
Stage one- heated floors for heating Stage two- cold climate multi split for living room and master bedroom as AC for the summer and supplemental heat in the winter
Part 1: ua-cam.com/video/q5qAhbH5LAw/v-deo.html Enjoy! 😀
Very informative and thoughtful video, the information on the heat recovery fresh air ventilation system was especially useful
Hi Ronnie, Thank you very much! Yes, it is an energy recovery ventilator, ERV, (or heat recovery ventilator). Essentially, a heat exchanger to get fresh air into the house, while keeping the heat inside (or outside in the summer). They are great and very important for well insulated homes that don't use forced air. Cheers, Katha
We have radiant heating and cooling with heat pump in our house. Two things regarding the cooling:
1. Floor will be cold. Sometimes it is refreshing to walk on cold floor during hot summer days. Sometimes it is not very pleasant. We have pipes installed in floor and ceiling, and we can choose to use only ceiling for cooling. In my experience ceiling cooling is better option.
2. Relative humidity IS issue. If there is no other way to remove moisture from air, when air is cooled, relative humidity increases. If you bring temperature down rapidly, even condensation could apear.
Hi @lazarojnenad. Thank you very much for sharing your experience. I think that can be valuable for viewers. Would you like to get on the channel to present your system sometime? katha@upheatacademy.com Warm regards, Katha
Hi@@NetZeroTech. I don't think it will be of much value to your viewers. I'm located in Eastern Europe, and we do things a bit differently than in the US. Our house is much smaller than the typical US home. It is built out of aerated concrete blocks, and here we use pan and tilt windows (ours are triple-glazed). Our radiant heating system is mostly DIY, with an air-to-water heat pump. The main difference is that we have completely different prices and economics, so a lot of things do not apply to the US and vice versa.
Warm regards to you, Katha. Keep uploading.
Thank very much for sharing, Nenad. This is very interesting. I grew up mostly in Germany. I appreciate the encouragement to keep uploading. Great work on the mostly DIY radiant heating system and the triple-glazed windows! That's awesome. Cheers, Katha
Thanks for sharing this video. If he is installing a HRV, is it not easier to just have a HVAC for cooling and HRV?
I am researching on what to do with my home renovation and addition.
I am still confused with the cooling side of things if condensation might be an issue.
Great question! I’m actually already working on a video on HRVs. These things might be helpful to consider:
1. Retrofit: Which system do you currently have installed? Do you have ducts?
2. ROI: What’s your thought on upfront cost and payback period? (if you are comfortable in public)
3. What climate do you live in regarding both temperature and humidity? - This construction takes place in Colorado, a low-humidity climate. It sounds like it’s more humid in your area.
4. What will the insulation look like?
I’m asking tons of questions and have not given you a single answer. 😂 This info would be super helpful, though. Keep in mind, the most important variable is your installer. Thank you! Katha
katha@upheatacademy.com
@@NetZeroTech
The house currently has a ducted system. 1000 SQF.
The plan is to add 2000 SQF to the house with infloor heating (air to water heat pump) and possibly use ducts in the ceiling for cooling.
It’s a personal home. Not really worried about ROI. I am located in Canada. The government is offering a 40K for all energy upgrades- interest free for 10 years.
I might tap into that.
For insulation and looking at a combination or spray foam and rock wool insulation.
The governmental program is awesome in Canada! I am a huge fan of in-floor heating. Sounds like you don't want cold floors for cooling. So, ducts in the ceiling seem like a good choice. I also like your thoughts on insulation, if the r-values are high, especially in the ceiling. Dennis has R51 in the ceiling and R32 in the walls, which is quite good. The reason Dennis is using the floor and not HVAC for cooling as well is that that gives you a more steady and even temperature throughout the home and no air breezes or hot and cold spots. He has no humidity issues, because it's so dry in Colorado. So, ceiling fans and HRV work great. One big thing to consider with radiant is, it doesn't give you any dust or allergens, which air-forced ducted systems can over the years, if you don't clean them, which adds to the maintenance costs.
Overall, I think you are on the right track. I don't think you need HVAC cooling, if your r-values are high enough (including the windows, so you don't get condensation on the windows) and your air gets exchanged with an HRV. That would be a bit less upfront, I think.
Hope this helps. Watch out for the video on ERV / HRV. I also want to look more into the upfront calculations of these different options. Thank you! Katha
@@NetZeroTech Thank you 🙏🏽
@@basilkingsley Sure. Good luck!
There are pros/cons to hydronic radiant floor heating, but cooling the floors without dehumidification is asking for problems. If you're cooling the floor in the presence of moist air then you WILL have condensation issues. This is where traditional HVAC ducting is still superior - it can handle heating, cooling, and/or dehumidification as needed.
Great point. Thank you for sharing. This build is in a very dry climate and equipped with an ERV, energy recovery ventilator. ERVs can maintain the temperature and appropriate humidity. Cheers, Katha
@@NetZeroTech Good to know this is in a dry climate. But a point of clarification for anyone else... ERVs will attempt to balance some of the humidity, but they will not truly reduce it. In areas with higher seasonal humidity the ERV manufacturers will tell customers to slow down the fan speed so the home isn't being filled with humidity from outside. Dehumidification is key for summer comfort, unless you're in a truly arid climate.
In summary, I'd say, an ERV can help manage humidity to a large extent. To effectively control moisture levels indoors in extremely humid areas, a dehumidifier is the way to go.
In detail, an ERV helps to improve indoor air quality by exchanging stale indoor air with fresh outdoor air while also recovering energy from the outgoing air to precondition the incoming air. ERVs are particularly useful in humid climates because they can help manage humidity levels by transferring some of the moisture from the incoming air to the outgoing air during the exchange process.
A dehumidifier, on the other hand, is specifically designed to reduce the humidity levels in a space by extracting moisture from the air. In very humid areas where the humidity levels remain high even with ventilation, a dehumidifier may be necessary to maintain a comfortable and healthy indoor environment. Dehumidifiers work independently of ventilation systems and can be particularly useful in basements, bathrooms, or other areas prone to excess moisture.
Hope this aligns with your experience, @DeuceDeuceBravo. What climate do you live in? Thank you, Katha
If ductwork is to be installed anyway, why not install active cooling? Having worked on floor cooling, I've found that comfort is the problem, even in an arid climate. There's also things to consider, like fire season smoke. I've found that direct expansion cooling in a sealed system greatly mitigates the effects of wildfire smoke. Radiant floor heating is fantastic. Cooling, not so much.
Thank you 🙏, @@jomm5968. ERVs / HRVs require significantly less ductwork and are less expensive. The temperature is very stable with good insulation and geothermal. While it takes a few hours, geothermal can do the cooling seamlessly. Hope that makes sense. Thoughts? Katha 😀
have been dreaming on radiant heat I am thinking of going back to a system developed in the 1970s A solar thermal system with a drain down tank. They are super cheap if you source everything yourself. Depending upon how one supplies storage tanks and in my case also a water heatpump to do exactly what was done here. With a drain back system it is fairly simple.. Use flat plate or vacuum tube heat collector. a drain back tank a mixing valve to keep the water from being overly hot. A storage tank basically an electric water heater a pump to move the water thru the external loop with the drain back tank. So why this system? It drains when there is freezing so no need for anti freeze. It turns on once there is enough heat from the sun to make it efficient. Additionally will put a flat plate heat exchanger inline and a pump to move the water thru this half of the system. This allows separation of the drain back side from the domestic water side. all in all a 30 tube vaccum system can be sourced from 200 to 1200$ the drain back tank around $350 a balancing valve from around $100 a 1/20 pump for around $120 each for two pumps. The storage tank is not cheap but not nearly as much as a heat pump water heater which for a decent one I would imagine $2000. Just my two cents.. That said I live in lower zone 4 climate so the chances of snow are limited to 1 week
Thank you for sharing. That sounds very affordable. I wanna look more into these systems sometime. Do you know if it requires a lot of maintenance? It sounds like it needs to be combined with another heating system, though. And no cooling, right? Thank you, Katha
@@NetZeroTech the evacuated tubes generally require zero maintenace So long as the pump is installed correctly there should be no need for maintenace.. thermal sensors dont require any and the balancing valve should not either.. So from what I can determine going to far outlast a string inverter if that is what one is using for a PV system. These systems are used around the world but almost none here in the USA. My guess is when something is inexpensive marketing folks have limited profit.
@@stevepailet8258 That sounds pretty good. I'm afraid there is a lot of truth in limited profits from inexpensive solutions... Thank you!
@@NetZeroTech yes it does need to be combined with a separate cooling system. The biggest problem I see is using a combo unit with the tubing in the slab is that you likely reach dew point and end up with moisture on the floor. The best alternative is to use fan coils so that you can actually remove the moisture in the air. This is why air conditioners always have condensate drains .
That makes sense. Thank you. Katha
I am totally against this type of in floor heat for a variety of reasons.
Interesting. Would you mind sharing why?
"It settles"
You're talking about BLOWN IN insulation. Fibrous products like fiberglass or cellulose.
If you fill a cavity with spray foam, it's NOT settling. EVER.
The worst that might happen is some of the bays, when improperly sprayed, may pull away, leaving gaps.
A proper contractor will return to fix these install imperfections BEFORE YOU CLOSE THE WALL ASSEMBLY UP.
Hi @PhotonHerald. Yes, I completely agree. Thank you very much for sharing. I actually thought about commenting on this part, but I didn't want to get side-tracked into insulation. I just want to keep emphasizing the importance of insulation in my videos. Thank you, Katha
First off, comfort has NO ROI, if you're looking at that first & foremost, bad analysis. Multi stage is the best route to go & if that's 2 units, that allows a built in safety if one has a failure, your home will still be safe running on the other one.
Hi @ericscott3997, Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Redundancy is a good point, even if they rarely just completely fail all of a sudden. What do you think would change in the analysis, if comfort is the goal at all cost? Do you think variable speed significantly increases the comfort level compared with dual stage? Thanks, Katha
@@NetZeroTech I'm just a firm believer that if you're making the time & effort of a custom build, & the specialization of fully a hydronic system, you'd spend a little more to make it right. A 2 stage system is functional, but having the variable pump is a better long term option. Especially if the slab & home are above code in insulation value.
@@ericscott3997 That makes sense. Thank you, Katha
Stage one- heated floors for heating Stage two- cold climate multi split for living room and master bedroom as AC for the summer and supplemental heat in the winter
@@andreycham4797 Sounds like a good option. Add office to AC. Less ducts and cost with ERV, though.