Home Network Upgrade - TP Link Omada Setup

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 5 чер 2024
  • Big shout out to TP Link for sending over some Omada equipment to give my friend a network upgrade. Their Omada line is a platform that integrates network devices, including access points, switches and gateways, providing 100% centralized cloud management. Omada creates a highly scalable network-all controlled from a single interface. Seamless wireless and wired connections are provided, ideal for use in hospitality, education, retail, offices, and more.
    Controller - amzn.to/3ndZdx3
    Router - amzn.to/31Ltrjp
    Switch - amzn.to/3fhz9fL
    Access Point -amzn.to/3fb5XqR
    Support the channel on Patreon: / raidowl
    Affiliate Links:
    Ryzen 9 5950x - amzn.to/3z29yko
    Samsung 980 2TB - amzn.to/3myEa85
    Logitech G513 - amzn.to/3sPS6yv
    Logitech G703 - amzn.to/3sATW5R
    WD Ultrastar 12TB - amzn.to/3EvOPXc
    My Studio Equipment:
    Sony FX3 - amzn.to/3qq4Jxl
    Sony 24mm 1.4 GM - amzn.to/3mA1TEK
    Tascam DR-40x Audio Recorder - amzn.to/3EvTPeq
    Rode NTG4+ Mic - amzn.to/3JuElLs
    Atmos NinjaV - amzn.to/3Hi0ue1
    Godox SL150 Light - amzn.to/3Es0Qg3
    links.hostowl.net/
    0:00 Intro
    1:02 Not a sponsor
    1:24 The new hardware
    5:00 Cost
    5:39 The hardware setup plan
    7:45 Everything wired up
    9:55 Installing the access point
    11:25 Software setup
    19:06 Thoughts on setup
    20:25 Speed Test
    22:07 Conclusion
  • Наука та технологія

КОМЕНТАРІ • 117

  • @masterchief342
    @masterchief342 2 роки тому +6

    Thanks for the clap! I'm happy to be here. You've got a wonderful voice, and an amazing way of explaining things!

  • @carpey750
    @carpey750 2 роки тому +15

    very fortuitous, I had just ordered that same exact hardware set up to build out my new home network 2 days ago. The parts should arrive tomorrow. Thanks for providing an overview of what I should expect when putting everything together.

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +5

      Awesome! I’m a big fan of the clean GUI and easy access to all the devices. I’d still take my pfSense setup that I use in my home just cuz of all the features I’m used to but I’d easily recommend the Omada stuff to 99% of people.

    • @carpey750
      @carpey750 2 роки тому +1

      @@RaidOwl That is fair. I had been staring down the Netgate 6100 because I want to build out to a 10gb network at the same time but decided to go with the TP Link as a cheaper learning experience initially. After I get this worked out and stable, then map out the route to 10gb and more control with pfSense.

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +2

      @@carpey750 Man I couldn't tell you how many times I've added the 6100 to my cart...only to convince myself that I don't "need" it haha.

  • @linya0711
    @linya0711 2 роки тому +11

    why this channel only have 4.4k sub
    this dude it's making great and professional video
    and have a great setup like a camera recording in 4K
    you are doing great dude!!!!!

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +2

      Thank you so much!

  • @rjbrowning85
    @rjbrowning85 Рік тому

    I have a similar setup on order. Should be here tomorrow. I ended up going with 3 EAP610 AX1800 wireless access points. 1 to cover each floor of the house.

  • @lenny0272
    @lenny0272 2 роки тому +2

    Great stuff...I have a ton of tplink omada stuff.Thank you for the info...

  • @CoverageAwarenessStudio
    @CoverageAwarenessStudio 2 роки тому +4

    I just got their VPN Router/firewall coming to me this Tuesday and cannot wait.

    • @kablammy7
      @kablammy7 Рік тому +1

      How did your setup work out ?
      My router is coming tomorrow ( Tuesday ) and my switch and controller are coming Wednesday and my two EAP ' s are coming Thursday ...
      I have to wait ...

  • @Walterz930
    @Walterz930 Рік тому +2

    I really enjoyed the tp link omada equipment the only thing I wish is if they gave one of the router ports poe for the controller and then used both ports so one as a in line then one as a out line to the switch instead of needing the plug the controller into a switch port on its own and missing out on using that port

  • @opendebate
    @opendebate 2 роки тому +3

    Omada lineups are Enterprise-grade on the budget

    • @DerekDavis213
      @DerekDavis213 Рік тому

      Enterprises trust HP, Cisco, Juniper. Can the same be said about TP Link?
      Maybe there is a reason people pay more for well-known brands?

  • @travisrose1559
    @travisrose1559 2 роки тому +1

    I really like those cheaper eap-225. I need several ap and those seem to for the budget and the network needs.

  • @thatonesnowboarde
    @thatonesnowboarde Рік тому +2

    You need to add some fans or some kind of ventilation in that box you may end up burning up your equipment quicker than it normally would with that setup

  • @coralchaser
    @coralchaser Рік тому +1

    Old but good video. i was hoping you you could have tested mesh with Ethernet backhaul

  • @kuyavenzinfovlog
    @kuyavenzinfovlog 2 роки тому

    Nice tutorial.
    guest check box to allow connected client into omada portal for some authentication.

  • @stevet6008
    @stevet6008 3 місяці тому

    Thanks for the comprehensive tutorial. I was looking into Ubiquity but they are just too expensive. The only part of my network that would be different is that I have a pfSense router. would it be possible to use this setup with my pfSense firewall/router in place of the TPlink router?

  • @captshadab
    @captshadab 2 роки тому +1

    Hi. Please make a video reviewing the wireless mesh of eap660hd with another and comparing their speed tests with the wired backhaul. Thank you

  • @GPoulton44
    @GPoulton44 Рік тому

    Awesome video, thank you. Question: In your video, in the GUI, under Devices, I can see your ERR605 Router. This is not appearing in my GUI - why?

  • @fishmonger11
    @fishmonger11 2 роки тому +10

    TP-Link has noted issues with VLAN ACLs directly on the router ports. There should basically be 2 cables to the router WAN in, and one LAN out to your switch. Everything else should plug into the switch instead.

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +2

      Thanks for the heads up. I'll be sure to test this on my in-depth video.

    • @fishmonger11
      @fishmonger11 Рік тому +1

      @William Tell failover WAN as well

    • @Espiritiv
      @Espiritiv Рік тому

      @William Tell same question here too

  • @1st1shot
    @1st1shot 2 роки тому +11

    What speed is your friend paying for with their ISP? That would be useful info when reviewing the speed tests.

  • @marto.4427
    @marto.4427 2 роки тому

    I really like the rick and morty frame lmao, the rest of the video was pretty excellent too

  • @adnanmasudmalik
    @adnanmasudmalik Рік тому

    Great video. Instead of this switch, can we use TP-Link TL-SG1218MPE | 16 Port Gigabit PoE Switch | Easy Smart Managed | 16 PoE+ Ports? Would it serve the same purpose?

  • @OfficialRayGonzalez
    @OfficialRayGonzalez Рік тому

    Super helpful!

  • @DjMrMors
    @DjMrMors Рік тому

    Nice video, i have a question though. With this router i can access remotely my server from another device/network through internet? I want to use it for such a reason . Also do u know if i can use it for wake on lan on my server? I have read and seen some videos that i can do but its not total clear thanks

  • @johnterpack3940
    @johnterpack3940 Рік тому

    How does the controller handle subnets? Can it pick up everything, or do you need a separate controller for each subnet?

  • @ronm6585
    @ronm6585 2 роки тому +1

    Thanks.

  • @3212Dre
    @3212Dre 2 роки тому +2

    Phase One of my installation was the installation of three Omada switches (TL-SG2210MP, TL-SG2008 qty2) and the controller behind a Linksys WRT3200ACM router, this was completed two weeks ago. Phase Two will involve swapping out the Linksys router for the Omada router, adding 2 access points and maybe 2 additional Omaha POE switches. Question, how is the coverage for the access point? I'm trying to determine how many to buy.

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +1

      Nice! Thats a nice setup you've got going on over there. The coverage is fairly decent I'd say. The AP is in an optimal location (ceiling of 2nd story open loft) and on WiFi6 enabled device we are getting over 80% throughput (compared to standing directly under it) from anywhere in the 3,500 sq ft house. Even outside in the backyard we got reasonable coverage.
      I would say if you're looking for steady 95%+ from everywhere in your house then 2 APs should suffice but if you just want decent coverage then 1 of these is perfectly adequate for this house.

  • @louisbertini
    @louisbertini Рік тому +1

    Dude this is epic.

  • @tecnologiainternacional
    @tecnologiainternacional Рік тому

    my friend thanls for the video. question. why do you say access point and not wifi ? do you set up the router as access point and then connect the other thing through that one ?

  • @dastiffmeister1
    @dastiffmeister1 2 роки тому +1

    Not a long-time viewer but I'm a big fan!
    Do you already or would you consider hosting a live stream on occasion?

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +3

      Hi there! I recently got my internet in a place where it’s stable enough for a live stream. I am definitely open to doing some streams…just gotta figure out what I want to do for it.

  • @deany5709
    @deany5709 Рік тому

    Great and informative video. Considering upgrading my network but can it function connected to my ISP-supplied Zyxel XMG3512-B10a DSL router?

    • @Eternal_Tech
      @Eternal_Tech Рік тому

      Yes, but you should place your ISP-provided Zyxel in bridge mode. This will disable the Zyxel's routing functions, but maintain its DSL modem functions. Basically, this will make your Zyxel just a modem. You would then connect the TP-Link router to the Zyxel using an Ethernet cable. The switch would then be connected to the TP-Link router. Everything else (e.g. controller, access points, computers) should connect to the switch.
      On Zyxel's Support section, there is an article entitled, "Setting the VMG as Modem Bridge Mode," which will explain the process. Unfortunately, UA-cam will not allow me to post a link.

  • @jbh3335
    @jbh3335 6 місяців тому

    Great video. I have a ISP all-in-one modem/router/access point. When upgrading to a system like this, what settings do you turn off in the ISP's device e.g. routing, wifi, firewall etc.
    Most of the videos I've seen focus on the settings in the new devices but not what to do with your existing ISPs device, which would effectively be a moden only when you upgrade.
    Can you point me in the right direction?

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  6 місяців тому +1

      Depends on the modem. Some have a “passthrough” mode, or modem only. You can usually find it by googling your modem brand and “passthrough”.

  • @7073shea
    @7073shea 2 роки тому +3

    Just a fan here

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +2

      Thanks Sean!

    • @7073shea
      @7073shea 2 роки тому +3

      @@RaidOwl I actually decided to do my own home server set up after seeing your content. Grabbed an old 14 core xeon chip. Just waiting on the mobo now, (thanks to aliexpress) and I can throw it together.

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +1

      Heck yeah man! That’s awesome!

  • @r22roMP
    @r22roMP 11 місяців тому

    I have a set of Decos at home, and watching this content I want to slowly migrate to the Omada hardware, ¿Is it possible to use the Decos as APs using their AP Mode with the Omadas in the mean time?

  • @Equinox2021
    @Equinox2021 2 роки тому +1

    Curious if you set up a DMZ for the TP Link router in the at&t gateway. When I set up clients with at&t that's typically what I'll do, waiting for the day where we aren't required to use their gateway.

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому

      Nope, we've really had no real need to do that (yet). When I used to have ATT I would just pass through specific ports to the router for externally exposed services.

    • @johnterpack3940
      @johnterpack3940 Рік тому +1

      @@-d.b.m.1962 Got a link to any info? Everything I find is too old to be useful.

  • @JasonsLabVideos
    @JasonsLabVideos 2 роки тому +2

    Hey Mr.owl :) How do you like the Tp-link ap's so far ? I was about to buy one and give it a shot as it would be my first WiFi-6 AP. For the lab..

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +2

      It’s really solid. The range isn’t the best but the settings and speeds are top notch

    • @JasonsLabVideos
      @JasonsLabVideos 2 роки тому +2

      @@RaidOwl Im using an Aruba AIO AP12 right now and it covers the "whole" house. I was thinking about the TP or the New WiFi 6 Aruba..

  • @gerardbong
    @gerardbong 11 місяців тому

    Can the er605+oc200+sg3452p+2 eap 610 ap handle a small business with IPPBX 10 ip phones, NVR 32 cameras 2mp, and 15 pc clients? Or should I use er7206?

  • @dkf2711
    @dkf2711 Рік тому

    That face on the white box in the network closet is so meme-like xD It's like white Pepe.

  • @victorslee
    @victorslee 2 роки тому +2

    I am following your series closely. I may try tp-link system since it seems much easier to setup. However, I am having an old unifi switch installed by someone else. Should I replace it by tp-link switch? or just purchase UDM-pro to build unifi based network? Further, can I use POE port for an non-poe devices? I am a learner about network. Thanks!

  • @barkman1one
    @barkman1one 2 роки тому +2

    Thanks for the video, helped me set everything up, but I have a issue changing client IP address's with the controller, in the config there is this statement "The feature is available only when the gateway acts as the DHCP server", I have searched for hours but cant find a answer, do you have any ideas?

  • @riteshdhawan8383
    @riteshdhawan8383 11 місяців тому

    I fail to understand without configuring AT&T black box, how has the creator been able to configure TP link omada Er605 in router mode?

  • @bbgr33dy8
    @bbgr33dy8 Рік тому +1

    Hello i'm looking to buy this exact setup but the only difference will be the switch, does it need to be a managed jetstream switch? or can i use any other unmanaged switch, since i will be buying the router i dont know if the managed version of the switch will be necesary

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  Рік тому +1

      The unmanaged switch will work fine as long as you don’t care about management features such as VLANs.

  • @VijayKumar-hn8vq
    @VijayKumar-hn8vq 2 роки тому +2

    Thanks for the great video series. I’ve followed your video with the same equipment . I’ve been able to set up an ACL rules to allow and disallowed some VLANs . Can I see all user activities logs on controller ? like which user is reaching which site and how much bandwidth they consumes. I am looking for immediate support here. Thanks in advance!

  • @H-RutherfordHill
    @H-RutherfordHill Рік тому

    Do these products collect data from your internet traffic?

  • @MatthewDuminy
    @MatthewDuminy 2 роки тому +1

    Can the WAN/LAN ports be set to the same LAN as the LAN port? In other words, can it be used as a 4 port switch so that there's no need to purchase a dedicated switch for small setups?

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +2

      Yes it can. That’s how it actually acts by default.

    • @MatthewDuminy
      @MatthewDuminy 2 роки тому +1

      @@RaidOwl Great to hear. Thank you for the reply. I currently have the USG + 8 port PoE switch + NanoHD AP. Due to the way my rental house is laid out, I need to have a router and switch in one section of the house but only have space for 1 of them - so this all in one solution would be perfect for me. My only other concern would be - I want to purchase more APs in the near future and mesh them. Would the TP Link handle the mesh handover using Unifi APs?

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +1

      @@MatthewDuminy Thats a good question. I can't give you a certain answer but I would assume the Unifi APs need to be connected to the Unifi Controller for the mesh to work. I could be wrong, though. If the mesh configuration can be set up via the Unifi AP's individual GUI and not through the controller, then it might actually work.

  • @weisstdudochnicht1
    @weisstdudochnicht1 Рік тому +1

    Is it possible to manage switch & AP with Omada software without using the TP-Link Router? - planning to use pfSense

  • @pradeepchinna5545
    @pradeepchinna5545 Рік тому

    Can we skip the switch and directly connect Access Point to Router ?

  • @sandhyarani583
    @sandhyarani583 Рік тому +1

    i need to install 3 eap 225 roofmount accespoints in my network. can i use same ssid .

  • @hasmukhmithapara9173
    @hasmukhmithapara9173 2 роки тому

    Hello Sir, I am facing problem to open Omada controller software. When I open Omada controller it launches web browser and downloads .jar file every time. I reinstall the software but the problem is still not resolved. so can you help me what should i do?

  • @sapiggy454
    @sapiggy454 2 роки тому +1

    Do you know what your friends plan with at&t is, and what do u recommend, I think I have 100mbs coming into the house

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому

      He is keeping ATT as his ISP. This setup is entirely separate from what your ISP provides you (unless you want to upgrade to a third-party modem). 100Mbps is pretty solid and this setup would have no problem utilizing that. Where a setup like this shines, though, is transferring data over LAN so between devices within your network.

  • @mobi8138
    @mobi8138 Рік тому +1

    How is the Router firewall compared to pfSense?

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  Рік тому +2

      Much more user friendly but not as feature-rich

  • @cbdaytona675
    @cbdaytona675 2 роки тому +1

    If I have 12-14 Ethernet runs, should I run them all into a single switch or combination into the tp link router and switch to avoid buying 2 8 port switches that support omada?

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +1

      Router or Switch will be fine. You'll see virtually no difference.

    • @cbdaytona675
      @cbdaytona675 2 роки тому

      @@RaidOwl wish tp link had a 16 port omada POE switch. Otherwise I’ll have to get second of the 8 port. Ordering today and will setup this weekend. Thanks for the reply.

    • @AlejandroTaylorEscribano
      @AlejandroTaylorEscribano 2 роки тому +1

      @@cbdaytona675 how did it go? What does your topology look like. I am in the same boat now.

    • @cbdaytona675
      @cbdaytona675 2 роки тому +1

      @@AlejandroTaylorEscribano I held off on buying into the omada line. As interim, I purchased a 16 port gigabit POE+ switch which allowed my 2 PoE devices to remove their adapter and consolidated my network cabinet so all my smart thing hubs fit in there also.

  • @sidkris5197
    @sidkris5197 Рік тому

    If i setup the omada router/switch/controller and after connecting from the switch to the EAP wall, can i setup Tp link deco or archer on AP mode using wired backhaul? asking this to know if i can have the omada setup + Mesh setup at same time to use the 6ghz/160mghz badnwidth

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  Рік тому

      Yep it’ll all work but your mesh setup won’t show up or be configurable through the Omada UI.

    • @sidkris5197
      @sidkris5197 Рік тому

      @@RaidOwl so that defeats the whole purpose of me wanting to create VLANS and segregate the secure network from the IOT/guest networks. Correct?

    • @sidkris5197
      @sidkris5197 Рік тому

      @@RaidOwl also, for a 2 story home which is 2953sqft in total upto patio, would 2 wifi 6 APs be sufficient evennif they are not in the ceiling but on the wall because in my case i have to use a an eth port from my jack, connect it to a poe switch and then take a wire to the APs making it like a wired backhaul

  • @user-0xDEEDBEEF
    @user-0xDEEDBEEF Рік тому

    660HD acces point is obvious overkill for a home network.

  • @jonyjd
    @jonyjd Рік тому

    Didnt you have a gateway? Why doesnt apear?
    Why the internet shows N/A?

  • @3212Dre
    @3212Dre 2 роки тому +1

    Second thought - the system you installed in the video may be overkill for such slow internet service because the system not performing anywhere near gigabit speed. Installing 2.5 Gigabit switches would be way way too much for such slow service.

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +3

      Well your internet service isn’t really a factor if you’re looking at device to device communications, like if you have a NAS or media server or something. If you don’t have any of that then even 2.5G would be overkill.

  • @landonkrussell
    @landonkrussell 2 роки тому +2

    At this point, I have almost nothing that can support 10 Gbps or 2.5 Gbps or wireless 6 or 6e. With that said, I'm not buying any new equipment without it having at least 2.5 Gbps or wireless 6e. Unfortunately, I can't afford any of that anyway (lol). I think I'll keep my ol' Netgear AC router / modem combo for another year or so until the prices come down and electronics are actually in stock.

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +3

      Yep, nothing wrong with that. The thing about networking is that it’s only as fast as your slowest hardware in the the chain. So unless the devices in your stack support 2.5G+ speeds…then you’re prob looking at Gigabit speeds anyway.

  • @cme9241
    @cme9241 2 роки тому

    I have a built in router/modem.....already have all the devices in video installed works fine but now want to add that ER605 router, I might have issues getting installed because my current modem/router is on 192.168.0.1 might not find the new device because of conflicts

    • @Eternal_Tech
      @Eternal_Tech Рік тому +1

      You should set your current integrated router/modem (gateway) into bridge mode. This will keep the modem function, but disable the routing functions. Then, you can connect a router to your current gateway and there will be no IP address conflicts between the two devices.

  • @abduraffiabangon9733
    @abduraffiabangon9733 2 роки тому +1

    it would be a lot better with an EAP 225-OUTDOOR

  • @hzstoreaerial3500
    @hzstoreaerial3500 Рік тому

    It is support ldap ?

  • @teemuvesala9575
    @teemuvesala9575 Рік тому +2

    I kinda feel EAP660HD is pretty overkill for home environment and also since its designed to handle hundreds of clients at once, it doesnt have support for HE160 which even cheaper EAP650 can do. I'd say for home better just go with EAP610, 650 or 670. For business, EAP620HD or 660HD.

  • @mhpreach
    @mhpreach Рік тому

    Question, I have a UniFi U6 pro access point. Will it adopt into an Omada system? I hate have to buy another AP😊

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  Рік тому

      Unfortunately not :/

  • @justinblair9661
    @justinblair9661 2 роки тому +1

    I'm confused; did TP-Link just give $300+ worth of gear away? Did your buddy buy it? If he got it for free, how can we get that deal?

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +2

      Yes they did. Companies give away stuff all the time for advertisement purposes.

    • @justinblair9661
      @justinblair9661 2 роки тому +1

      @@RaidOwl awesome! I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the head's up!

  • @below-skiv2197
    @below-skiv2197 Рік тому

    the one problem i have is running the cable for the access point through my home

  • @AlejandroTaylorEscribano
    @AlejandroTaylorEscribano 2 роки тому

    Do you really need a Tp router? What is it actually doing ?

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +1

      Acting as your firewall and dns server among other stuff

  • @MikeG-js1jt
    @MikeG-js1jt Рік тому

    I still see no need for that controller?......... what is its purpose in life?

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  Рік тому

      To control all your Omada devices in one location.

  • @JustPlainRob
    @JustPlainRob 2 роки тому +1

    I love how blatantly they copied the Ubiquiti access point style.
    I know Ubiquiti stuff is popular, but it's not because their APs are attractive. It's because they work really well.
    Those UFO things are fugly. Don't copy that.

  • @goblinphreak2132
    @goblinphreak2132 Рік тому

    calling an "wifi access point" a "router" really gets on my nerves lmao.
    TP-Link needs to take a page from Ubiquiti and include the controller inside their routers.

  • @MrIskenderBey
    @MrIskenderBey Рік тому

    Need to do something about your microphone setup. Lots of background noise and not clean...

  • @jbdragon3295
    @jbdragon3295 2 роки тому

    That AP is ugly to me.

  • @ericrsa2348
    @ericrsa2348 2 роки тому

    Please be serious 2 minutes and do not take us for granted. This is a sponsored video and nothing more. I would not believe even one sec that TP Link would send you a full set of equipment just out of gratitude 😂😂

    • @RaidOwl
      @RaidOwl  2 роки тому +3

      They sent me products to try out and make a video on. They did not get to see the video before, nor did they get to tell me what could/couldn't be in it. No money changed hands. This was not a sponsored video.

    • @StuckInTheM1ddle
      @StuckInTheM1ddle 2 роки тому +2

      @@RaidOwl Really good video thanks. I'm considering Omada and found it useful.
      One point on the commenter you replied to, while they obviously don't realise this is common practise with companies and UA-camrs, your reply of "no money changed hands" might be literally true but they did supply you with $500 worth of equipment FOC in return for which they get advertising essentially and there's an implicit knowledge that most people will be kinder to a company who just gave them stuff for free - not a criticism just an opinion ;)