Did Paul Reed Smith End The Tonewood Debate?
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
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On this episode we discuss the "tonewood" debate, why it will never go away and why it is a "myth", we also discuss Paul Reed Smith's roll in furthering the debate, which is part of the reason it won't go away.
View my Playlist "The Great Tonewood Debate"
• The Great Tonewood Debate
Great links to article about the tonewood debate:
guitar.com/new...
guitar.com/new...
reverb.com/new...
Dr. Zollner's research (in German, use Google translate)
www.gitarrenph...
English translations of Dr. Zollner's research
gitec-forum-en...
Man states wood effects solid body tone then holds up hollowbody as proof.
That kind of struck me as well.
@@JayceAllanGuitar There is also no shame to buy a guitar just because it is beautiful. Because guitar makers can make guitar that look like true art and there is nothing wrong with that. It is an item that is supposed to be admired so it's completely fine to choose something that fits your aesthetic sensibilities. All the intricate carvings in the acoustic world don't do anything for tone but they sure make an outstanding looking guitar.
@@JayceAllanGuitar 16:02 Balsa wood has nothing to do with Basswood. Balsa is incredibly light and often used in model building. It is so soft that you can literally carve it with your fingernails.
@@EbonyPope Yeah, it probably wouldn't hold up to any string tension. 😂
That'd be my guess.
3 things
1. The way he described (and responded to) the opposing viewpoint to his own was consistently disingenuous and audibly full of distain. Not the way to have a genuine debate.
2. Every single thing on a stringed instrument makes a difference and im sure is even measurable. (I'm in the audiophile world also, so similar debate is not new to me.)
3. But can you hear the difference? (I can't)
It wasnt a debate, it was a man berating and insulting others couched in the semblance of debate.
Tbh, this whole thing has nothing to do with tonewood, it has to do with who PRS is as a person. The tyoe of charachter im seeing displayed touches every corner of a persons life and speaks toward certain specifc charachter flaws that make a person approach life in a certain (and honesty sad) way.
All that said, I hope I can afford a pine Suhr (correction Novo uses pine if im correct) one day 😂
Well said. I couldn’t agree more.
@@JayceAllanGuitar I'm raising that and agreeing more.
Personally, I think belly fat amount is the real “magic” to guitar tone. If the guitar is against a fatter belly it has a certain sweet tone that the earbuds really crave. If it is against a lean and trim belly it has this really tight but meaty crunch to it. 😂
Next time someone picks up a sheet of tone wood to knock on it and hear the resonance, tell them to press it against their belly and try again.
If that’s the case all my guitars should sound amazing when I play them! 🤓
This wins best comment!
“Tone-belly”
Explains that warm thick tone I can get.
@@timmiller1Nah toan is in the balls, although the microplastics currently found after scientific research in humans is why so much toan was better in the 1960's and 70's less microplastics in the balls = more toan
I used to choose guitars based on woods.
Then I started recording A/B comparisons and switching out neck/bodies to see the difference.
Thanks to that I realized that it doesn't really matter and stopped worrying about the "tone" factor.
People will still argue with you. All the differences disappear when you add high gain and mix the guitar in with all the other instruments. Seems like a silly little detail to argue about but people do.
If wood type made a significant difference in solid body guitars, Fender and its competitors would have built special wood series right from the start in the 1950s. The debate had to wait for the Internet to arise, where anyone can share beliefs instead of valuable knowledge.
there seems to be some confusion about the impact of woods on solid bodies as opposed to on acoustics, on acoustics it matters.
Correct.
You guys are so full of yourselves. The tonewood "debate" has been around LONG before the internet was even thought of. I swear, you kids think you know everything. Furthermore, tonewood ONLY becomes a factor with extremely well made acoustic guitars and even many electric guitars. Lastly, the more distortion you rely on, the less tonewood is going to be a factor in A WELL MADE GUITAR. For cleaner tones, the choice of tonewoods absolutely plays a role in a well made guitar.
@@howabouthetruth2157 though the debate may have been going on since before the internet it consisted almost entirely of myth, bullshit and marketing hype. Now we have the internet we are much better informed and can work together to find the facts.
The facts proven by experiment show that in SOLID BODY ELECTRIC guitars the wood the body is made from makes little to no difference to the sound.
Have you ever done a blind test yourself, can you hear the difference?
"You guys are so full of yourselves." Lol, projection much?
@@howabouthetruth2157 If people heard a difference, there wouldn't be a debate. Believers are full of their shit, that's always been, whether it's gods or tonewood.
His arguments are moronic and don't even merit a response. If nothing else, he's completely turned me off of his products.
YEP!
He lost me at tone tuner buttons. I still like his guitars, though. From the PRS SE line on up, they're well crafted instruments.
I saw the Guitar World article about that and his video explaining the new tuners. He claims extra weight on the head stock "robs the guitar" or midrange...I tested it. I clamped C clamps to the headstock of one of my guitars and it did nothing to impact tone.
@@nellayema2455 they are beautifully made instruments and great to play, for mine they are a design advance over the strat and les paul and combine the best of both, and can also produce a wider range of sounds than either. Shame they are so ridiculously expensive though.
@@JayceAllanGuitar " *I clamped C clamps to the headstock of one of my guitars and it did nothing to impact tone.* "
That's weird. Were you using an overdriven tone for comparison? Very light strings, maybe? Heavily worn strings?
As far as physics goes, a c-clamp is heavy enough, that it should do something.
Okay, I'll just state my case here, just for clarity. While obsessing about wood types and other minutia makes no sense, stuff like weight and stiffness does affect the tone. A wobbly neck does not sound the same as a solidly constructed neck. It sounds "dead". The same goes for drastic changes in weight. Very light guitars "do not like" heavier strings. Strings stretched on a cast iron railway bridge would sound audibly better than those attached to a hello kitty guitar, regardless of the electronics used. (I've seen an experiment like that.)
I mean, a c-clamp should be enough to hear an influence. Maybe not, depending on the rest of the setup, but in general yes.
Man really saw a Jim Lill video and went full damage control. Straw men left and right.
I have a friend of 30 years who is a well known guitar luthier (He runs a family guitar business). He told me at one time " I can take the (wood) door off my shop, glue them together, and make a guitar body out of it!" His words still ring true .
Brian May.
Paul Reed Smith has made a fortune selling his "tonewood" snake oil schtick. I have never bought a Paul Reed Smith even though I had the ability, and after this display of him being nothing more than a bloviating pompous jerk. I actually left the play and trade guitars channel.... after John the host, got ass hurt when a load of subscribers did not agree with him and Paul Reed Smith. He made a follow-up video claiming that he was siding with the companies.... No joke since his bread is buttered by them. His channel has a link to zZounds... If that's any indication of his loyalty to the companies. I feel exactly the same way... There are so many different types of woods out there, in so many different combinations to come up with to make a guitar sound great. Excellent video!!!💜👍🎸 Now I can start sleeping better knowing that somebody else feels the same way....lol.
Thanks for watching. You’re in good company.
Pickups and speakers are where it comes from.
The most impactful way to change your tone is to change your speakers
I think we also get stuck in the trap where we hear a guitar in a song or video and we want our guitar to sound the same and so end up changing that tone. But the ears can lie to you. 🤪
Speakers and pickups!
@@turdbooger6051 it's easier to change speakers than to swap pick ups
You are 100% right for electric guitars. Most players have no idea of just how much speaker choice matters.
@@howabouthetruth2157 thanks im glad people are starting to agree with me. im actually a guitar teacher :D
I’ve been playing for over 4 decades. Not once, have I, or anyone we played or recorded with, gave a single thought to the wood used in the Strats, LP’s, Kramer’s or BC Rich guitars we played. We spent more attention to the amps we used and where / how we recorded them. Microphones and room sound treatments made a bigger difference than the few micrometer differences one might find between Mahogany and Poplar bodies. The pickups make a massive difference as well. A 3 single coil Strat will sound vastly different from a dual Humbucker LP or any double humbucker guitar including other Strats using humbuckers instead of single coils.
To that end, PRS guitars never sounded good to me at any level, and I’ve always avoided them no matter how cheap or expensive… I’ve just never found their sound anywhere near as nice as a Strat or Gibson… or BC Rich, or Jackson, or Ibanez… or Kramer. Paul Reed is somewhat of a snake oil salesman in that regard pertaining to “tonewood.”
Thanks for this vid mate 👍🏻😎
Thank you for the comments. I subbed.
Speaker choice makes a huge difference.
Opinions vary! I'll personally stick with the opinions of Carlos Santana and Mayer over.... who are you anyway?
@@samstewart9249 Who the hell are you! I guess we're both nobody.
@samstewart9249 too bad you can't make your own opinions without latching on to someone famous. Sheep!
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The A string vibrates at 440Hz. In each wiggle the amplitude reduced by a factor of (1-a), where that "a" is operated on by the magic of tonewood by going into the body and some of it ( "b" ) coming back out into the string so it is made into some new tonal quality to be electrified by the pickups. So after 1 wiggle you have (1 - a + b) of a waveform in the string. If the guitar's sustain reduces the waveform to 1/2 after 10 seconds (a reasonable sustain), then (1 - a + b)**(440*10) = 1/2 => or (a-b) ~= 1/8800 from first to 2 terms of a Taylor series. I think the amount of sound coming out of the body back into the string is such that b
Sounds legit.
Great take. I would add one note of distinction: I think the debate is that tonewoods “don’t matter” in the sense they don’t significantly impact a guitar’s electrified output signal. I feel people like Jim Lill and others have demonstrated this definitively. As for whether woods and moisture content l make a difference unplugged sitting in the player’s lap (i.e. their acoustic properties), sure, I’m happy to cede this point. It’s hard to deny that some electric guitars seem to “breathe” better unplugged than other identical models. But who knows - this could come down to neck pocket contact, nut slots, fairy dust, etc.
But once you plug it in and for sure once you add high gain...all those differences go straight out the window.
You're absolutely correct, all wood can be tonewood. To Paul Reed Smith and people that feel that only mahogany, maple, rosewood, etc. are the only tonewoods, yet he finiahes his guitars in a polyester finish to which the cork sniffers would say doesn't let the wood breathe. A little insight on guitars made of wood, the wood ia dead and will not breathe. The wood is only 1 part of complicated subject. The nut material, the bridge material, strings, pickups, along with the amp and speakers all play a part in how a particular guitar sounds. Personally, my rule of thumb is that if an electric guitar has a resonance that sound good unplugged than there's a good chance that it'll sound good plugged in. Acoustic guitars are a totally different animal for reasons that you explain in the video.
Well said.
I’d love to see a double-blind comparison. Have players who do not know what wood various guitars are made from play for an audience who also does not know and rates the tones. Have guitars made from balsa to ash.
Dang it I meant to put this comment out in the main thread. Oh well.
I found a study similar to that with acoustic.
The first time I heard Paul Reed Smith was the CME speech. I commented that he sounded like Werner Erhardt (est) an old time snake oil salesman. He lead the Silicon Valley speechifying CEOs by a little bit. It’s appealing to some. Not me. I don’t watch TED talks for that reason. But I love guitar woods! Mostly for their grain and figuring. But if you dip your toe into the acoustic world, especially classical, it’s all about bracing. Gotta have something to talk about.
As an owner of PRS, Gibson, Fender solid bodies and hollow bodies, I can tell you for sure, that construction, hardware/electronics, and scale length has the most affect on tone. I'm not even aware of what woods the guitars are made of, but I can definitely say that they sound different from each other. So yes, tone wood is as mythical as the yeti.
PRS are built very very nice. But the tone can be so dull and mid-rangey…
Hi! I've been fascinated by this topic. Although tonewood in a solid body electric guitar is nonsense, not all wood is tonewood. I just happened to watch a UA-cam video a few days ago called "Why tonewoods do not impact tone on electric guitars" by "DIY Guitar Making" where the host demonstrates that, when it comes to acoustic guitar making, not all woods are appropriate, as some woods will not vibrate like a bell when they're cut into a 1/8th or a 1/16th inch thick plank. But again, this matters for acoustic instruments, and not solid body ones, because there is an air chamber inside the body of the acoustic instrument. DIY Guitar Making goes more in depth on this subject in the video.
Thank you also to Jayce for making this here video.
No problem. Thanks for watching.
I have a composite guitar that I gave played for 10 years or so. It sounds great. Most people can't tell it isn't wood.
Ok so I don't know the answer to this, but thinking about it logically there's a few questions I think I should ask.
1. Does the material the neck and body are made from effect how the string vibrates?
2. Does the vibration of the string make the body vibrate?
3. If so then are there any vibration harmonics and interactions at work?
4. on semi acoustic / hollow body electrics does the top vibration cause the pick up to vibrate too and does that have an effect of the vibrating magnetic field generating the signal?
5. If its only the pickup and the string that matters, why do hollow body electrics feed back?
6. Does sustain make a difference? I'm sure the materials used would have an effect on how long the string will ring?
In my experience having played for 40+ years and owned and played a lot of different guitars there is no doubt that two guitars made exactly the same way from exactly the same materials to the same specs can sound completely different. There are so many variables at play, I don't believe there is any one thing. Of course all wood has tone, Tonewood is simply a term applied to those that are generally used for acoustic instruments where it definitely does matter. For a solid body electric I suspect any difference it would make other than sustain would be so marginal it wouldn't make that much difference. Any decent luthier will tell you the player has the biggest effect on tone. I've played really expensive guitars built from the best of woods that sounded horrible to me and I've played really cheap guitars built from rubbish that I think sounded great. It's a subjective thing and there's no doubt the big makers want to keep us spending. My advice is ignore the names on the headstocks and spec sheets and just pick them up and play until you find the right one for you. You might be lucky and find your dream sound from a £60 '80's Jap import. ;)
Paul is wrong. He loses the argument as soon as he brings up the violin and a microphone. A solid body electric guitar is not an acoustic instrument, and if your pups are so microphonic that they're acting like an actual microphone, then they're junk and need to be replaced. Good woods make for good quality solid body electric guitars, but they don't necessarily make for a better sounding solid body electric guitar.
many of his guitars are not solid bodies though are they?
In general if you get a nice full sound from an unplugged electric, it will sound better plugged in. As long as it has reasonable hardware.
I wish they'd just cut the bull and sell it based on, nice woods/looks and great playability. What's wrong with just being straight with it. It's a nice or hand picked wood, nice finish and plays great. No bull, and people would still buy.
I agree. He makes beautiful guitars that sound great. Of course he also sells an insanely expensive line from his tone wood “library”. So he’s got to keep up appearances.
Subbed. Great video.
My personal take is that the wood or other general construction of a solid body guitar makes a difference… to its unplugged tone. Some of that tone is audible to a player in their bedroom or lounge playing at low to moderate volumes - and it affects their perception of the tone of the guitar. I can swear I hear a difference between 2 double humbucker guitars - only to A/B them on recording and hear virtually no difference, if any. *But* I did put the mic on my shoulder (to simulate my ear position) and did the same test with a low-moderate amplified volume - and presto, I heard the same thing while playing: a small but significant difference to me in that situation. Turn up the volume, or record the signal, and all bets are off!
Thanks again!
I appreciate you tuning in. I agree with your comment. Our ears also fool us.
Your ears definitely fool you. But accounting for that with a blind test, my shoulder mic does correspond with what I hear in the room: a mix of the acoustic tone with the amp. It’s why playing in my room with my pitch shifting pedal is bloody awful - you can hear two clashing keys (one, the original acoustic, the other the amplified shifted signal) but the recording is fine.
Bodies strewn for miles in the late 80-90's Tonewood Wars. The battlefield was still smoldering and PRS's rant only stirred the embers!
“Electric guitars may have either a sold wood body or a hollow body. Vibrations of the body are RELATIVELY UNIMPORTANT, and since the strings TRANSFER RELATIVELY LITTLE energy to the body, electric guitars are characterized by long sustain.”
From “The Physics of Musical Instruments” by Fletcher & Rossing page 227
(Added emphasis mine)
The way I understand it is, the strings cause a disturbance in the magnetic field of the pickup, and that's how the pickup "picks up" the sound. So if the pickup also vibrates a little, it can produce that disturbance.
I had a friend who made pedal steel guitars. I discussed their construction with him many times. I don't remember him ever mentioning tone wood.
"Be a sheep, and the whole world BAAAAH's with you" - JRI-Tech 2020
I love all the expert opinions from all the experts. Maybe ... someone that has built more than a few guitars knows something.
Like Leo Fender, who didn't think that "tonewood" mattered?
A guitar builder tech guy I knew years ago purchased one of those mechanised "Gizmotron" devices and didn't want to mess with his existing guitars so he knocked up a cheap Strat body out of pine to mount it on. He didn't bother with any kind of finish and (even as a guy who did servicing and refrets for Eric Clapton) he reckoned this was the nicest sounding Strat of all.
Paul knows tone woods don't make a difference, if he did, he would demonstrate the difference by playing guitars made of different tone woods.
Paul is the owner of a guitar company. How else is he going to convince buyer's to essentially buy the same PRS guitar over and over and over again? That's the marketing power of tonewood.
True. Guitar manufacturers are kinda screwed. They’re kinda of like cars. If you own one or two you’re set. So Fender comes out with signature models and recreations of vintage models or anniversary editions and so on. If I wasn’t doing the UA-cam channel I’d probably have a couple electric guitars and a couple acoustics and that’d be plenty.
Check out this video: "Can You Hear the Difference? - Maple vs Rosewood Guitar Fretboards" I thought it was a pretty good test for the tonewood debate.
Great video as always brother. I have several guitars cheap and expensive alike. Ranging from $300 to $3,500. And I’ll tell ya the thing I have found that affects tone are the wiring, pickups and pots. The feel of the neck can also affect how a person plays which also affects tone. Not the wood of the neck itself. The thing I have found however is that heavier woods do affect sustain. Not tone but sustain. I have a telecaster that weighs 11lb and it has an amazing amount of sustain. The same is true with my 12lb Les Paul. Now, I will show ignorance and say, it seems like it is the weight but maybe the sensitivity of the pickups would also be the reason I don’t know.
I think denser wood sustains longer. That could be why people think screwing the pickups right to the body effects tone because it probably makes better sustain. 11 to 12 pounds is pretty heavy! 😎🎸
@@JayceAllanGuitar you maybe right. And yeah I am a goofball I like heavy guitars
Yes of course. The more dense a material is, the less it will be affected by the vibration of the strings, allowing the strings to vibrate for longer.
"resonant" guitars (the ones that vibrate in your hand) actually sustain less long because they're robbing the strings of their energy.
Once struck, the strings only have so much energy to "sustain". If the guitar body is vibrating, the strings are losing their energy faster.
Makes sense.
@@JayceAllanGuitar But what is the evidence? Yes, there's a guy who put a pickup on a steel girder and got more sustain out at around 30 seconds, but we want is total perceived volume at 3-4 seconds (or what should be called 'decay'). Jim Lill said there's no difference when he looked at it.
When he started talking about dead strings and rubber bridges I knew it was over being an actual reasonable discussion! No one ever has argued that dead strings have no effect on sound and no one outside of a toddler should ever have a rubber nut or bridge on their guitar! In my 24 years of playing and owning guitars I have never seen a rubber bridge or but!
Rubber bridges are really popular right now on acoustic guitars. Actually it’s more like a rubber damper before the bridge. Makes the guitar sound muffled. But still playable. But you’re right. No one arguing against tonewood ever made any such claims.
Warmouth guitars do some good shootouts between body wood types and neck wood types, differences are there but quite subtle. Also the youtuber Guitaristas has a few recent videos modifying hardware and electronics with his tokai love rock and squire hybrid guitar in one case worth watching
The other thing I know, is that a guitar made from rare hard wood, ie... NZ native black miare, is worth lot's.
Of balsa wood eas stiff and stable enough to vsrve a guitar body out of it, then yeah, you could use it. PRS gives off this man shouting at clouds vibe, man.
The wood does matter, yet relative to every other part on a guitar, the wood seems relatively just as immaterial. If someone prefers a cheaper instruments tone, then that is what blows the PRS theory that wood matters. What we're paying for is the a more expensive wood, sanded, rubbed & polished for a finer finish. Precision & accuracy of the entire build. The $ 100 Chinese guitars are pretty spot on close for accuracy. Same holds for the finish.I doubt PRS can discern a alder vs Poplar body, blindfolded or full view. I know I can't and I can't tell the difference between poplar & basswood without testing the wood to see a difference in the test results for Janka Hardness. That is a polyurethane finish feels like polyurethane whether it's on alder, mahogany, pine or basswood. And they all sound like each other relative to actual densities if the wood for actual weight.
Of the 42 basses in my collection one of my best sounding ones is a plywood P bass.
There is also no shame to buy a guitar just because it is beautiful. Because guitar makers can make guitar that look like true art and there is nothing wrong with that. It is an item that is supposed to be admired so it's completely fine to choose something that fits your aesthetic sensibilities. All the intricate carvings in the acoustic world don't do anything for tone but they sure make an outstanding looking guitar.
I'm certainly not saying PRS isn't allowed to sell guitars for whatever price they can get, but why BS your customers with all this "tonewood" talk. His guitars are beautiful and I guess some of the best sounding and playing guitars out there, so why not talk that up instead? He's kind of an odd dude.
@@JayceAllanGuitar Yeah he seems to be very focused on that issue which isn't a real issue at all. People would still buy his guitars for the build quality alone.
Woods that are used for marimba etc they're proper tone woods.
It's easy to tell a tone wood. Not so easy to match it to the instrument being built.
Really enjoyed the comments. Paul is a successful guitar buillder and manufacturer, I own a 2002 Custom 24 hardtail. It's great. I learned long ago jealousy is such a wasted emotion. The world is full of folks that are critical of his success, why arent they building guitars if they know so much? Get over yourselves.
There is only way to settle this debate once and for all and that is for someone with the means to do so to produce several copies of the same guitar body on a cnc router but using different species of wood for each one. Assemble the guitars using the same neck and same electronics so that the only difference between them would be the wood the body is made of, and then do a test to determine if there is any appreciable difference in tone or sustain.
It’s been done. I’ll see if I can find a link to the video.
@@JayceAllanGuitar ahh Glenn Fricker already did it, I found the video 🤘
Paul Reed Smith did not end the tonewood debate. He only showed how little he understands it. He engages a straw man, suggesting those skeptical of tone wood don’t think anything other than pickups and pedals matter, to include things like rubber nuts and Vaseline covered strings. Tone wood skeptics have never made such claims and often don’t even insist categorically that there cannot be some measurable difference in sound if tested with sensitive enough equipment. The position is that any such differences don’t actually translate to enough difference in sound to be meaningfully audible, especially in the context of a mix. So, it doesn’t really matter and considerations like tone wood in a solid-body electric guitar can be disregarded on a practical level.
he's not talking about solid body electric instruments though is he?
and in case you haven't noticed, a lot of PRS guitars have holes in them.
He never makes it clear. He makes both solid body and semi hollow. But it’s not the wood that makes the difference between them it’s that one is solid and one is semi hollow.
@@axeman2638 , that’s one of his fallacies. He is talking about solid-body guitars, but uses examples of acoustic instruments, like violins, to support his claims.
Correct.
I really like my new "Tone" carbon fibre Enya guitar!!
I think it is fairly obvious from any footage of Paul Reed Smith that any attempt at a nuanced investigation into the workings of guitars or his business is wasted effort. Yet, he seems to be responsible for some very good guitars. I do wonder if all the talk of tonewood is jointly Free PR and a smokescreen? The success of PRS guitars is enhanced by his "guru" like persona but is largely down to a well defined product and close attention to quality standards. It surely also helps that there is some truth in "tonewoods". A radical change in wood type does have an effect on the amplified sound. It has a greater effect on the un-amplified sound though and it is equally apparent in the resonance and weight of the guitar. How a guitar feels to play should not be discounted in choice of wood. Ideally we should all choose our guitars dispassionately but I, for one, own several guitars simply because of who played similar ones. There's no shame it admitting it but some folk like to feel they make the choice for some reason other than hero worship.
For me, he did end the tonewood debate when he said all the best sounding pieces of wood in his shop were from the same tree! Do you really think a 60 yr old tree will sound like a 600 yr old tree? It’s not the type of wood, it’s the actual tree! They did extensive studies on Stadavarius violins and they couldn’t explain why they sounded so good. It is because he would travel hundreds of miles out into the old growth forrests that still existed in those days.
If that’s the case every tree would produce a different sound depending on the conditions it grew in. So you really wouldn’t know how good the guitar will sound until it’s done.
@@JayceAllanGuitarI think that’s probably true to an extent for acoustic instruments. You might have a ballpark but there will be differences, maybe even between parts of the same tree. It’s biological material which depends on environmental conditions for how it forms and that can change over the life of a tree. However those real differences in wood still won’t translate to solid body electrics because that’s literally just not how they produce sound.
I agree.
Guitar marketers: "it's in the wood. Get another guitar".
Pickup peddlers: "it's in the pickup. Upgrade your pickup".
Tube vendors: "It's in the amp. Upgrade your tubes".
Boutique Pedal crafters: "MT2? Seriously?! Get real with a Centaur Clone or go home".
Cabinet marketers: "No no no... it's in the speakers".
Me as a guitarist: It's amazing that the only people who care about me playing well are people who want to sell me product.
Isn't that the truth, and a lot of people fall for it. Same goes for TV's. I bought a 4K TV last year, because everything is going 4K and 4K is supposed to be so much better. Same with phones. It just never ends.
OBVIOUSLY the biggest factor in a solid-body electric guitar is whether it's resonating suspended between two strap buttons or resting on a soft knee under the middle. Sure the solid block of wood does have a unique resonance, but the supports relative to any standing waves in the block are far more important. Is your knee under a node? Well then it you'll get good sustain. Is your knee in the middle of a wave? Well then it's gonna suck eggs. Obviously. Duh. Same thing with the strap buttons. Clearly, every body with a unique bit of wood needs to be tuned for its suspension points. That's the biggest factor, I say. I have spoken.
🤓
Alright I'll just say it: to me, the shape of the guitar makes the biggest difference to me. My Explorer cuts through like a knife compared to my SG which is very thin. Play Scorpions riffs on both and you'll see why Matthias uses an Explorer. SG's do have a needle-like pin pricky kinda snappy sound. Some of Glenn Tipton's 70's solos have that flavor to it
He let us know what we've so suspected...PRS Guitars sell off of marketing dreck, the guitars being good is just a perk. These guitar companies as lifestyle brands are lame
Paul should just drop this subject and go on selling his coffee tables. This is not a criticism of anyone who owns and enjoys a PRS, its a response to Paul.
I always thought Paul was too into himself. I would think wood would matter for appearance, durability and weight only for solid body guitars.
I would never buy a PRS guitar because of Paul and his arrogant douchey personality. Guitarist that put in the time to get good don't give a crap about tone wood.
I don't like basswood but it's because they are usually just too light of a guitar wood for me (It seems most are sub 7lb) that feels like a video rock guitar toy to me. I like Alder and Mohagany. But My poplar guitars are just fine. I am more concerned about the wight for personal preference than the wood itself. I also built 2 small cab's using Kevlar speaker from my B&W home speakers that actually sound pretty good on my Bantamp lol What are your thoughts on using stereo speakers that way?
I’m with you on basswood. It’s never been my favorite. I’ve got a couple good poplar body guitars. I prefer ash or alder. But some of those can get too heavy. 8lbs is about right. I haven’t experimented much with stereo setups.
@@JayceAllanGuitar yup I like 7 1/2 to 8 lb myself. I have Alder, Mahagony and poplar. My 1 basswood is my LTD M-50.
Basswood only sounds good with basses. Obviously... 🤦♂
I won't comment on the tone wood debate but I will say that having luthiers with the passion and dedication that PRS obviously has applied toward his craft can only benefit the guitar industry and those who choose to pursue it either professionally or as a hobby....
He’s good at what he does I’ll say that.
The nut, bridge and fret material being all metal, then yes all you hear is the electronics
You can bet that PRS (the company) has done the A-B tests on different woods. The results are probably why PRS (the man) talks about Violins, rubber nuts and saddles, Balsa wood and dead, Vaseline covered strings.
There's a substantial difference between parts of the guitar that touch the strings and those that don't. His comments about rubber nuts and Vaseline covered strings detract from the strength of his argument in my opinion.
He didn't really say anything useful, word salad mostly. He sure has a big ego though.
The way wood affects the tone of a solid-body guitar is quite different than the way wood affects acoustic guitar tone. There are a good number of variables affecting an electric guitar's tone, but one of them is the response and feel of a guitar to the player. A player will play a lighter, slightly more resonant-feeling guitar differently than a heavier, less-resonant one, and the tone will be different. Like the guy here says- ALL wood is"tone wood"- it's just a matter of what tone you want to work with.
Paul doesn't use tonewood in his own marketing! Neither PRS nor anyone else makes a line of guitars where the cut and all hardware are identical, and only the wood changes. If tonewood mattered, this would have been a thing decades ago.
I'm with the other commenter that I would never play a PRS for this reason. If I was given one, I would sell it and buy a Gretsch because they look cooler. (They sound great too, but my pedal chain says the sound of the guitar itself doesn't matter much.)
PRS makes all sorts of logical fallacies and false equivalencies in his argument but never makes a valid point. He's a greasy salesman. He always seems to come across that way. I've owned a few PRS' over the years and I never connected with any of them. They never lived up to the hype. When you listen to him talk about how tuning keys affect tone and how he pushed the boys at Andertons to use his guitars as their main axes with his pushy greasy sales tactics, you start to see him for exactly what he is.
He builds great guitars, of course Carlos wouldn't know, would he? Most critics have never owned one.
The biggest single factors in whether a solid body electric guitar sounds "bright" or "dark" are scale length and pickup position relative to the bridge, closely followed by string gauge, action and pickup height. That's perfectly testable and reproducible.
I never considered scale length to affect tone. I suppose it could.
@@JayceAllanGuitar It absolutely does, since it has a major effect on string tension
I'm a notice the same thing when I'm playing guitar.
When I hold it - it sound different than it hold another person. (For my ears)
This regardless of how good playing technic.
PRS is so disingenuous with his arguments. Such an insufferable dwad.
I'm not sure I understand, are you saying woods do not sound different from each other in an electric?
😂 I think everyone that holds the position that " 17:53 tone wood Don't effect the sound or vibration of electric guitar" either really believe it or they have not seen it experienced the difference between a full mahogany guitar compared to a full maple guitar as that's all it really takes to hear the difference between the two. It really seems like there's people who have not had the experience with the plethora of different wood in the world of guitar builds,I mean how else is one going to come to the conclusions they supposedly hold, either that or they are just repeating what they have Heard, kinda like the news media folks that believe what ever the news said !?
I’m saying there is a huge amount of research that has been done by a variety of people that suggests it doesn’t. In my experience I don’t hear the difference.
dracula flow is more coherent than paul reed smith at this point.
Dude , headless guitar thin little and sounds huge cuz all of f them have hum-buckers love them but shocks me sounds same sometimes better
its always interesting that guitar companies love making the tonewood debate....yet, almost always, tonewoods is more expensive lol very convenient coincidence for them, its not like theyre ever saying "so weve found really good tonewood, and its white oak so its not that much more money but it sounds better!"
Some are/were. I owned a Squier by Fender from the early 90's. I thought the body was ash because it was so heavy. I took it apart and lo and behold it was plywood. Sounded great too.
PRS BS propaganda machine. I will stay with Schecter AXEs
I've owned a few Schecters, they are fabulous guitars, very well done.
I Don't know how there's a tone wood debate as any one that's played guitar or collected a few guitars over the years knows the wood type has a great influence on the sound. It just blows me away, especially with all the evidence I have observed
Over the years. I look at all the things happening in the world today that once were blown off as conspiracy theory but today have been proven true .
Don't know much about wood, but in my case, pickups have made all the difference...having said that, in my hands everything sounds like...(reader supplies the word)
I can relate. I’m a mediocre player so never felt the need to spend a ton of money on guitars.
...like David Gilmour?
Jimmy Page?
cat on the manifold when you start your car?
Very informative video. I never realized that tonewood was such a controversial topic. I guess he has to do whatever it takes to make people buy his expensive guitars, he probably knows its a bunch of be.
It's a hot button topic. My goal is to get people to change the way they think about it.
What he achieved was confirmation of every reason for why I have never and now will never buy or play a PRS piece of highly polished and overpriced furniture.
I'd like to see some research on how woods effect the sound in semi-acoustics, a lot of PRS guitars have body cavities and the woods used might have an effect because of that.
I've played a few of the expensive hollow body carved maple top PRS guitars and they are beautiful instruments to play and look at, but not worth the price or the hype.
A solid body electric definitely sounds different than a semi hollow. I’d like to know more too.
@@JayceAllanGuitar There's a lot more to the sound of a guitar than just tone as well.
There's dynamic range and response impulse as well, and sustain. To me hollow body electrics seem to have wider dynamic range and a sharper transient impulse, something more like a banjo, than solid body electrics.
At a guess I'd say that in solid bodies the woods wouldn't make much difference to those things either but in hollow bodies they might.
@@axeman2638 Very true.
PRS, burning down strawmen.
I saw KDH cover this soapbox nonsense. Surely a man selling guitars for 4K has no ulterior motives for thumping this old drum! I have Basswood Squiers that are probably in 6 different pieces under the finish and they sound great. Give me a great neck and decent pickups and i'll make it work.
Couldn’t agree more!
I agree with him... Go play a Fender Strat then pick up a PRS Custom with the same pickups... The Fender will always sound thinner because of the more porous wood... Distorted guitar is different because we cut the low end and the highs for the mix!!!! but clean amplified guitar you can tell by ear that wood makes a HUGE difference... If you don't have both guitars go to a guitar store and play them!!! You can also hold your ear to a white pine 2 by 4 and then a piece of 2 by 4 hard wood and you will hear a difference when you hit it... I don't think people realize that the differences are small BUT with all the different types of music we need certain guitars... We can't use a total blues set up guitar to play thrash metal, right? The distortion will be too thin compared to a Mahogony built guitar that brings the beef! I disagree totally... I am 52 and have seen dozens of different guitars man!!! Honestly, I think companies seem to be trying to convince people that there is no difference at all... SO they can sell their less expensive guitars as well. I tend to lean the other way because of my experience... You can't beat 35 years of tone comparisons in a 20 minute video man... The cable debate you just mentioned is big too!!! HAHAHAHA They have noise protection!!! I just bought 2 new chords because of it... For recording we don't want noise maaaaaaaaan HAHAHAHA Last example is from PRS himself!!! The new Strat looking guitar they made is made from softer wood HAHAHAH to bring out the highs man... Tonewood is a thing but there is no "best wood for all"... It depends on types of music we play! So, if that is your argument I think we can meet in the middle here but be clearer because even PRS knows that softer woods make a difference too not just the Core Mahogony guitars! It looks like you are saying PRS claims that only the type of wood in a Custom from Maryland for example is best for all...
Listening to Paul Reed Smith talk gives me an overwhelming urge to sell my PRS custom 24 and buy another Ibanez AZ prestige, its not as pretty thats for sure, but its better in just about every other way, and i would have a grand left over
I was looking at PRS guitars and the USA made ones are way more than I would ever want to pay for a guitar. Thinking about getting an SE model just to see what all the hype is about.
@@JayceAllanGuitar if i went for an SE i would probably go for the DGT, I think however the best PRS for the money is the S2 standard 24 in satin black, personally i would never buy another PRS, for the simple reason that they dont have ss frets, that is not acceptable to me, im a gigging musician, my Ibanez AZ, can get any tone, its super comfortable, its satin body and neck make sure your sweaty hands never stick to it, and 7 years of gigging relentlessly it has no fretwear, my PRS had fretwear after 3 months, all i could think of was why did i buy this thing?
I have a Firefly strat with stainless frets. I play bass in my band, so I don't gig with any of my electric guitars. I was thinking the other day exactly how much would you have to play a guitar for it to show as much wear as these relic guitars they sell. Guessing my guitars will never see that kind of action.
@@JayceAllanGuitar a few dings and laquer cracks maybe a bit off corrosion on the pole pieces, nothing more than that unless you are dragging the guitar through gravel everyday, my oldest guitar is a 1967 telecaster, its got a some buckle rash in the back laquer cracks and some small dings and thats it, i had it refretted once in my time of owning it which was since 87 but then again i didnt gig it all that much, now my ibanez AZ has literally done hundreds of shows since 2018, the chrome is coming off the trem arm, some corrosion on the pole pieces, a small but deep scratch on the upper horn and the satin finish is wearing to a dull glosss in a few places, but thats about it, i think reliced guitars are silly however i love when guitars have a rustic look to them from the get go, lucky dog guitars for instance, they look great to me
@@darkestfugue I think of Stevie Ray Vaughns guitar and wonder if all that wear came naturally or if he did that to it himself. I’ve seen a few guitars were the fretboard had significant wear. I suppose if you only use the same guitar all the time. Interesting.
The tone wood debate is broken down into two simplified arguments (tonewood make guitar sound good, wood not effect sound at all). It's really more nuanced than that and PRS doesn't help his argument with his examples and misrepresenting the other side's argument. I think woods are important, just not a major part of tone. Weight and balance effect how someone plays because they're using different muscles differently. Is that a huge factor? No, but it is something. You also want a quality wood so the screws stay in and the thing doesn't fall apart. Most wood is good for that, but a softer wood might not be. I'll even go so far as to suggest that the resonance of the guitar body against the body of the player might also have an effect on how someone plays. This would be highly subjective and to me might explain why some guitars just "click" with some people. None of these things are transmitted through the electrical signal and out the speaker. So I can be a tone wood denier, and still believe the wood is important. A lot of that nuance is lost with these arguments.
I’m not a fan of basswood for that very reason. It is so easy to strip screws in it.
Fun fact - only the balsa wood not useable for mass producing e-guitars because of lack structural integrity.
Until you smear it up with some epoxy. 😆😆
@@iridios6127 Like Legos! LOL
Balsa wood IS a species different from bass wood. It’s VERY soft and NOT. A good construction material for anything that needs to hold weight. Good for crafting and not much else. It seems like a dishonest analogy to me. And the best way to prove God’s point would be to actually make the guitar he’s saying would sound bad.
Good video man
I found a place I can get fairly large pieces of balsa. I’m going to make an actual guitar of balsa with a rubber nut and bridge. 😜😎
Rett just posted a video with 3 different strat necks and all three sounded different.
I watched that and downloaded the raw WAV files. I’ll be doing a reaction video to that one and some of my own tests.
Look! Over 1000 subscribers! 😎
Yes, thank you.
I think the "tone" of certain woods is largely bullshit and irrelevant. I don't think it's at all audible whatever difference certain woods may make to a guitars sound, and pickup position, type, etc. can make so much more of a direct difference in how a guitar sounds. Some woods may be better for working on when crafting a guitar compared to others, or are lighter, which may make for a more pleasant experience when building or playing a guitar, but I don't think anyone could ever reliably hear a difference compared to other woods. That being said, anything that is hard and rigid can probably serve as a substitute for wood when making a guitar. Using rubber for a nut isn't going to work, but not because "tonewoods" matter. PRS is a conman.
Audiologists tell us that none of us know what our own voices really sound like, because what we hear when we speak is filtered and modified by the bones of our skull. Even if we listen to a recording of our voice it’s not real because the recording equipment will modify the sound. So the debate over tonewood is resolved very easily: for some people the bones of their skull are so thick that they cannot hear the difference between, say, mahogany and maple.
Not surprised to see this comment from someone with the word "lumber" in their username. Interesting how the tone of a guitar is directly tied to the cost of the wood. Hmmmmm.
@@JayceAllanGuitar Actually, the term Lumber Likwidator is because I used to be a good bowler before my back and knees went to hell on me. Even in 2024 tenpins have a core of hard rock maple under the Surlyn coating.
@@lumberlikwidator8863 Bowling lanes make great guitars! I was just teasing back anyway, I really don't care what my guitars are made of, they all sound like guitars to me. 🤪
Strings, scale length, bridge saddle material, nut material, pups, pots, wiring - ALL OF THESE make FAR MORE difference in the solid body world than 'tone wood'. PRS is a con man. And his guitars have no mojo...
If anything he's reinforced the argument that Tone wood is bollocks.
@@johneland8225 I think so. But some people get mad when I say that.
Paul Reed Smith, King of the straw man argument over "tonewood". Here's Paul on ice cream: "You know, I would never eat ice cream out of anything than a fine crystal bowl, these damn paper, styrofoam cups are awful, and don't get me started about cones !"
Funny that he brings up violins as an example, but doesn't bother to think about why electric violins have never really become common place over acoustic ones. Anyone who owns an electro acoustic guitar should know why. It's just not the same thing.
I have yet to find a preamp for acoustic guitar that sounds like "an acoustic guitar", closest is the cool tube preamp in the Takamine P series. They sound pretty amazing, but open your wallet. Those guitars aren't cheap.
Why does a Gibson Les Paul Custom sound VERY different than a Gibson Les Paul Studio? Maple top over a Mahogany body vs an all Mahogany body....The WOOD does effect sound & tone of a Solid Body Electric Guitar. Believe what you want.... Do pickups make a difference? You bet! Everything does!
But have you ever recorded an A/B test with a Les Paul Custom against a Les Paul studio? So could it be they sound different to you because you simply think they do? Just asking. Maybe you have. Also, you’d have to compare both guitars with the same set of pickups, I mean the same actual set, meaning you’d take them out of one and put them in the other for the test. To eliminate that variable.
A few side-by-side comparisons at my local Gibson dealer back in the 1980's@@JayceAllanGuitar using the same amps, same guitar control settings....a HUGE difference. If you are playing through plug-ins....those tend to mask the real sound of any guitar. I run through Tube Amps when I can...but do use plug-ins for simplicity and room volume for many things. I know of what I speak, my Friend. Believe what you want....
@BrentAdams just asking questions. Because I don’t hear differences. Only in pickup type and position on the body.
@@JayceAllanGuitar play through a clean tube amp...no reverb...no pedals...the differences are very apparent.
@BrentAdams challenge accepted. I have guitars built in different body woods I’ll give this a try. Will make a great video.
Just because we don't like him or the examples he uses doesn't mean he's wrong.
Anything on a guitar that isn't the vibrating strings exists in a sympathetic harmonic relationship with the strings
Is all I hear is wah wah wah If guitars only weren't made of tone wood then I could afford them.
I watched the PRS video, where he claims he designed his Silver Sky to sound like an early sixties Strat I think. So the do all early Strats or any era Strat sound the same? Do all 58 and 59 Les Paul’s sound the same? I believe I heard that Billy Gibbons had his legendary “Pearly Gates” Les Paul chambered to make it lighter, did that destroy or completely change the sound of that guitar? I’m sure it had some effect, but I think he has all of his guitars eq’d using Pearly Gates as the benchmark tone…hmm maybe electronics have an effect on tone….nah
Yes, all variables affect tone, but I believe tone mostly is in the head and the hands more than anything else, even acoustic!
I have hands of concrete and zero sense of rhythm, I could make the best most expensive guitars sound like junk, a great player can make even the cheapest of guitars sound good.
I love guitars as art both visually and sonically, I don’t think there is any shame in coveting a guitar for its visual beauty only, even a PRS!
Kind of where I'm at too. I had a LTD Les Paul style guitar and also a Gibson Les Paul studio (that one was chambered) and couldn't tell the difference between the two.
call PRS ask what material they use for the nut. They will not tell you. They use cheaper tuners as years go by. They did not want to pay schaller for the better “winged” tuners they used to use. they also changed the tremolo and trem block and he makes guitars cheaper than he used to and the new ones don’t sound as good- to me Paul has enough money, he will not get any of mine
In that TedX talk he did, he dropped a plastic nut on stage, a bone nut and on of his and it sounded just like Tusq.
I'm shocked PRS thinks we're so stupid...😮 it's actually insulting listening to his weak arguments.. GLAD I never bought any of their overpriced, overrated guitars...
Kind if how I feel too. I mean it's one thing to support your view, but he just engages in picking a fight with those that disagree with him, with no proof to backup his claim.
Paul Reed Smith is attempting to sale a product. Bad press might be better then no press.
Yeah, when Jimmy Page used that horrid Cardboard Danelectro it sounded terrible...
Oh wait, no it didn't.
If you made as much money as he does using "tone wood", you would say the same thing.
Very disappointed in Paul, the stupidity & disrespect in his arguments (which don't actually address the question) is surprising from such an established maker - for electric guitars wood is traditional, can look very nice, can change the weight (as does weight relief) and is easy to work with, and 'maybe' a very small factor in the tone that very few people could ever tell the difference in a blind test. Better to think about every other factor contributing to tone first.
I think he’s just making noise to get attention. Seems to be working.