RE: "RE: 'In Defense of Dark Souls 2'" - Movement
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- tl;dr: MauLer accuses the mechanics of being inherently broken just because he does not want to acknowledge his skill issues and unwillingless to adapt to a slightly different gameplay
8 Directional Movement 0:00
Platforming 1:13
Falling 2:47
Ladders 4:31
Manual Attack Aiming 4:51
Backstabs 6:04
Summary 9:40
Ducking under the Fume Knight flamethrower move by doing an attack is so based
He's so cool for absolutely destroying the fume knight, seriously one of the best souls bosses ever
If you listen to his videos carefully, he's hiding his own preferences underneath "objectively good or bad aspects". It's pretty much how his approach works, it's deceiving the audience into thinking that "if I don't like it, it's bad" and those two things operate on entirely different manners. I don't like being ganked by basilisks on the deep swamp of farron keep, but I honestly think that this one part of farron keep was very clever. Putting fast and frightening beasts on a paralyzing area makes you feel like a prey. I could say, if I just wanted to make ds3 look bad, that this section of farron keep sucks ass because it gives the player little to no action and I felt unfairly trapped by it. Gotta admit, he's a very good deceiver.
I mean to be fair, the Elder Ghrus in Farron Keep were genuinely pretty awful enemies (at least in my experience), but likewise that's just one annoying area in an otherwise pretty decent game. People like Mauler and many DS fanboys (regardless of whether it's 1, 2, or 3) are always quick to hate and scream their opinions are objectively true without taking even five seconds to think more thoroughly over their "reviews" on something.
@@inexplicablepresence8274all the ghrus were pretty annoying indeed, dark souls 3 has some near perfect moments that just overstayed their welcome. The game felt rushed in the sense that they developed really good things and then spammed (and oh boy there is a lot of repetition in that game) that few good things to make some length.
I really liked the concept of the jailers, but then I walked into a room that had 700 of them. Like, okay, i get it, but can you guys design another enemy PLEASE?
@@alexvenancio1336 Yeah, I feel like while DS2 is very obvious in how it lacked proper development time, 1 and 3 also had distinct rushed areas and regions too that suffered due to lack of proper dev time. The jailers and other gimmick enemies were especially bad-- in theory they're cool, and honestly one or two by themselves is actually very tense to deal with in a good way! But that last room with Karla where there's practically a clown car full of Jailers is just so laughably terrible.
bro is crying about the 8 direction stuff (which is a non issue if you actually move your camera) while in ds1 you could only roll in 4 directions during a target lock lol
Yea I just hate how people always bring up the 'eight directions'. Luckily if they're a DS1 fan boy, all I have to say is 'so how's that lock-on and FOUR directional rolling? Game is objectively better in that aspect.' Usually gets them to blow fumes kekw.
@@Razruer just ask them if they noticed the same snap points in Elden Ring
@@Razruer I prefer the movement in Dark Souls 1 all in all.
@@Razrueryou can roll in all directions even in Dark Souls 1 and Demon's Souls
@@View777Dragon Not if you are locked on. When locked on you can only roll in 4 directions in DS1, you have to unlock to be able to roll in any direction. Ds2, Ds3, and Elden Ring don't do this.
Dont know if you adress it later, but the most egregious example of "failed bacstabs," was a near 10 second clip of him trying and failing to backstab someone... in full jester attire.
"Dont know if you adress it later, but the most egregious example of "failed bacstabs," was a near 10 second clip of him trying and failing to backstab someone... in full jester attire."
Which has been corrected by him YEARS before Domo made his videos and makes Maulers original point even better.
First Maulers admission that this was an error: "How about getting facts wrong? (...) [Quoting himself] As far as I'm concerned, plenty of these show an opportunity for a backstab to activate and it comes across as the game falling asleep. - 'don't you know that the Jester Robes are immune to Backstabs?' - Yes, there are a few moments of several in which I get things wrong."
But as Mauler said later on in the original video "I think you may have spotted a pattern at this point on top of everything else with this system I couldn't tell on my opening playthrough because of the inconsistency whether or not I could backstab certain enemies" which is precisely how he missed the Jester Robe prevention. The inconsistency of the Backstab system was causing this confusion.
The issue that causes the inconsistency is that the chain backstab prevention sometimes activates despite an enemy not having been backstabbed before. Like in the Dweller clip, which Domo erroneously claims was because this FULL HEALTH dweller was somehow backstabbed before.
@@bass-dc9175 ok.
the 8 directional thing was never an issue for me. i constantly moved my camera while moving in all the ds games. it just felt natural.
these people unironically need to level adp irl
Yeah same for me. I never noticed the 8 directional movement until I saw complaints about it online as I always used both sticks to control my character.
Would be interesting to know for how many players this is even an issue, how many adapted and how many never even noticed it.
For me the only times I felt the 8 directional thing was when I was spinning in circles deciding what to do as I do with any game
I noticed it immediatley (DS2 was my first souls) as I defaulted to playing Claw grip and I often move my camera around to survey lots of stuff and sometimes walk blind. But I don't think it's ever made any bad moments I'm pretty indifferent to it.
It's a downgrade from all the other souls games that do have it
@@Domo3000 I'm a big Dark Souls 2 fan and I enjoyed the game a lot but it did feel oddly stiff. When I learned about this I was like oh. There's a fix for it, I honestly think it makes the game a lot better. And I suspect this directional movement is the source of like 80% of the whining about the game.
I will keep saying this, until people smarten up: MauLer and people like him are MALICIOUS. They are intentionally trying to make the game look bad, they aren't stupid, or naïve, or offering what they think is legit criticism. They know what they are doing, and they are being malicious.
All those ganks, all those failed jumps, he intentionally did all of those, because he has an agenda.
Yeah running to the edge of a cliff and then complaining how unfair it is that he fell down seriously does not look like organic gameplay, but just a staged moment to artificially make the game look broken.
Are the "8 directional snap points" in the room with us?
They do exist, but the same snap points are also in Elden Ring, but as it's not DS2 people do not shit on it for having them. Many third person games like every Zelda title have them, but of course MauLer doesn't know this so he accuses it of being bad game design.
@@Domo3000 I know, I was just posting bait XD nice vid as always
@@Domo3000 Does Elden Ring really have those? You should make a video demonstrating it, it's a pretty huge deal and really, REALLY exposes DS2 haters as just being conformists for online clout.
@@Domo3000 can you make a video comparing the DS2 vs Elden Ring snap points? I think they are similar but elden ring "smooths out" the animations a bit
The backstab bit really hurt. When I was playing ds2 for the first time, at 15, I figured out that animations don't always correspond with backstab hitboxes, and that you should look at the legs more than the actual back. The fact that a grown ass dude didn't even try to think why backstabs work the way they do, and instantly labeled them as "broken" hurts. The fact that this is the kind of guy, people think is a good critic, hurts even more...
I started to play dark souls games from ptde. Most hours of ds1 and ds 2 I have played on keyboard and mouse. On keyboard, if some one didn't know, you can only move in 4 directions. So 90% of the time I aimed using mouse. Much later, after I mastered those games and bought my first controller, my reaction on those complaints about movement was like "what the hell are you talking about?".
Seriously, those problems non existing to me, and much more people, I suppose.
Technically it's 8 directions since you can press two buttons at once, but same, never been an issue
The literal second i touched DS2 after DS1 i went "holy shit the controls are so much better"
Like its very smooth and controlled, and they FINALLY ADDED A JUMP BUTTON!!!
I know right? dedicated jump button are always will be better, then hold a button and press again.
@@Edgariki it was so clunky and poorly explained in Dark Souls 1, oh my god. Awful.
@@sophieprime4669tbh I never liked any of the jump mechanics till elden ring
@@scorpiowarrior7841 oh totally agree. But you gotta admit that pressing l3 for jumping when running is a lot more pleasant that having to rapidly smash the circle and pray to the heavens you dpnt just roll.
Then again i never got this game's aversion to just... A jump button. A button you press and... Jump.
Its clunky but you get used to it ig...
@@sophieprime4669It’s mostly for map design. A dedicated jump causes sequence breaks (such as the moth gear). But ER doesn’t follow the same format, thus a jump button is better.
I like when first video on YT is Domos video about ds2 ❤
Thank you for this video man
That fume knight fight was pretty swag ngl 🔥🔥
are you going to compile all of these videos into one giant megavid once you finish covering all of his points?
The "8 directional" thingy was never an issue for me, but with "deadzones fix mod" it makes it so much smoother.. but still, not really a game-breaking issues tbh lol
the mod just makes the turning animations smoother, that's it. Plus, rolling feels better in ds2 and later series too! The 4 directional rolling feels so bad in the previous game XD
Btw great video as always ;)
That "Weee!" Absolutely killed me 😂😂
You son of a b1cth, dodging the truck sword of fume knight with the leg swipe of Bone Fist. I'll should try to do that in the future
Many of those require nearly frame perfect inputs, so good luck. In my Bullying Fume Knight video I'm showing the hitboxes and a small explanation on which attacks you can dodge.
As someone who had aslo been defending Dark Souls 2 for nearly 10 years now. You have my respect, comrade
I have like half a thousand hours in DS2 from PvP alone and I love UGS, so seeing him criticising an actual literal feature that's one of the pivotal things that made DS2 PvP so amazingly variable and lifefull as free aiming UGS with a lockon is just mindboggling.
Complaining about backstabs in DS2 is wild. I feel like I get almost every backstab I attempt there, but in Elden Ring I miss 99% of them, its pretty forgiving in DS2.
Maybe they could have toned it down to only snapping when sprinting in the forwards direction, to get the better aim when running & jumping, without any chance of it interfering with anything else?
Pretty sure that’s what they did in ER.
Domo you are on a mission and i respect it so much words can't fathom it
Same. he's putting in the work to actually show these full of themselves youtubers how their "criticisms" of DaS2 are bs
If this guy tried to say these types of things about movement in ds1 he would’ve been told that it’s not the control’s fault but the person using them (in other words git gud) and then got laughed out of the room.
Well it’s happening now
I like how near the end of the video you actually summarize the whole "DS2 Good-DS2 Bad" debate well. If you take the time to learn the game mechanics and adapt your playstyle to fit the game you'll likely have a much more enjoyable time. But if you are the type of person who doesnt want to learn the specifics of the game or be challenged to play differently than other games its more likely that you'll become frustrated and have a soured experience.
Its pretty apparent which of these mindsets the critics have when their complaints generally add up to "its bad because i dont understand it or because its different".
I've beaten the game and all three expansions and had no clue about the snap-points until like last week. It really is the smallest nitpick to the point that when I saw someone say there were snap-points, I didn't believe them until I booted up the game and got on. These folk are grasping at straws trying to hate for the sake of hate.
I’ve never understood the criticism directed at DS2’s movement. I watched most of MauLer’s series and even then the snap points thing didn’t make sense. It still doesn’t. I have no idea what MauLer and his buddy are talking about. I just enjoy the game, and whatever they’re complaining about doesn’t affect me.
Domo, this isn’t much but I want to show you my gratitude for your work. Even if you quit now, what you’ve done is important. I think the misinformation started with Matthewmatosis, then MauLer made it worse, and now it’s just a thing to misrepresent DS2 and hate on it. Sincerely, thank you for correcting the record. Sorry for the long message. I wish you the absolute best.
Oh wow thank you very much!
@@Domo3000 Did you get a Super Thanks from my comment? That’s what I did but now the icon isn’t showing on the comment. Sorry, this is the first time I’ve done this so I want to make sure it works right and you get what you’re supposed to lol.
@@BlondeMcGuinn yeah I did get your generous Super Thanks! Again I don't even know how to show my appreciation.
Sure you said it's not much, but getting 10 dollars for a video is a first for me.
@@Domo3000 I’m sorry I asked but I was confused because the icon disappeared from my comment lol.
You don’t have to do anything to show appreciation, you’ve made this awesome work that is informative and entertaining. You deserve more support. I just wanted to let you know that you’ve made an impact and I appreciate you.
A little mistake at 9:16, I don't think that Darkdweller got backstabed before because he has full health, maybe some other animation disabled it, other than that great video
Good catch!
I was so focused on the fact that he was in an animation that I didn't pay attention to the health.
So what happened? Was that the destroying the wall animation? I'll have to take another look
@@Domo3000
Probably a combination of recovering from an animation and the backstab range shifting slightly.
@@Battleguild The backstab hitbox is linked to the unit origin and does not move with the animation (which is why the incompetently made should-backstabs exist), so that can not be the explanation. He was absolutely in the hitbox for the Backstab to start.
This is a common issue with DS2, because of the chain backstab prevention, which sometimes activates (and remains for multiple seconds) randomly, even if an enemy has not been backstabbed or hit before.
@@bass-dc9175
Then it must be certain animations or interactions that trigger the protection from backstabs. Like how you can backstab a host trying to enter a fog door and interrupt the animation, but you can't backstab a host once the second part of the animation occurs.
While those dark beasts can normally be backstabbed after attacking, the creature destroying the wall might've counted as such an interaction that triggered the protection. Which would explain why it could feel random when backstabs don't initiate.
Now I just need to figure out why I can sometimes randomly backstab enemies in DS3 and Elden Ring from the front. Where you try to punish an opponent for missing and all of a sudden their back snaps to you for a backstab.
Dark souls 2 had probably my favorite movement of the trilogy. The speed, animation lengths, weight, and timings; they all have this right balance of pace between the sluggishness of dark souls 1, and the hybridized pace with bloodborne that dark souls 3 had. It has a nice flow, yet an aggressive curve to learn.
Btw, your gameplay is fucking impressive. That fume knight clip is straight up badass!!!!
Oh man, that Fume Knight fight was awesome. It seems everyone has collectively forgotten about when DS1 first came out and lots of people on the internet thought it was unfair because they were bad at it.
I played DS2 7-8 years after it's release, and hadn't played DS1 in forever. I assumed the manual attack aiming had always been there, that's how natural it feels to be able to select where you want to attack, and as stated in the video, it makes dealing with multiple enemies easier when using lock-on. It also feels disingenuous to say it "causes you to miss" when not having it can cause the same. I will say that manual attack aiming should have been better tutorialized better though. Like, if in things betwixt, we got a "Broken Two Hander" or a "Branch" that counted as a heavy weapon, and one of the stones was like "use LS to aim your attack at agile enemies", or something, but it's also not weird in any way that it wasn't tutorialized.
I thought it was insane that he complained about being able to steer Greatsword hits while locked on. It’s one of the best features of the weapon 😂
Dark Souls jump had to be one of the worst feeling jumps in almost any game I have played. I don't know how else to explain it other than it doesn't feel like a jump, more like a jump animation is being played, but your character is still on the ground. There's also controls to consider. With running, dodging, and jumps being assigned to one button can make using the jump awkward. Sometimes, you could try to quickly stop running and attempt to dodge and end up jumping instead (having a boss fight specifically about chasing him and dodging projectiles, doses, NOT help). A personal issue I had was also getting the timing wrong and not jumping at all, which is in some spots is a literal life or death difference. Sure, all of this can be managed just by getting better at the game, but that is true of any game.
Darks Souls 2 made the jump button separate from the run/dodge button, and the movement is better for it, not to mention it works like an actual jump.
I've never ever had any problem with movement controls in DS2. Sure, manual attack aiming did cost me a few "WTF?" moments, but I eventually realized that it was actually a feature. It took some practice to handle properly, sure, but it has improved PvP experience with the colossal weapons a lot. Does it make the game a bit harder? Yes, it does. But that's just a skill issue. As for backstabs... Yeah, I had a bit more trouble doing consistent backstabs in DS2 than in DS1. Now I see why.
I'd be cool with people saying that Dark Souls 2's mechanics are not enjoyable for them personally and that they simply prefer something else, but Dark Souls 2 haters slandering the whole game (which isn't a bad game) because they don't like it is straight up mad. It definetely has flaws but that shoudn't deprive from the fact that the game is overall good. Another thing which also gets overlooked is that DS2 experimented a lot with it's mechanics. illusory wall has covered some of them in his very informative videos and points it out himself that Fromsoft tested out many things in Dark Souls 2. Some mechanics CLEARLY flopped or got left out from future games but that's good becuase if the series stuck to a very strict formula instead of trying out new things then we would have Dark Souls 17: Modern Warfare or something.
to be honest the dead zones in the left analog stick suck. but if that the deal breaker then i guess there is nothing i can say
What is up with Mauler’s tone? Like he’s having the worst day of his life. And that streamer he shows throughout his video is just cringe. The way he whines about everything. Why did you even play the game if you were just gonna be negative right from the start? And DS2 is not a very hard game. Even when you don’t know about certain traps, it’s leagues easier than the first. I love Mauler but he just brings up the most bizarre things as “flaws”. That whole video was hard to watch.
I tend to agree, but it's because of what he was responding to, which was even more insufferable.
He's still insufferable but I do agree with the 8 snap points thing. there's actually a design quirk/issue with the analog stick deadzones where they're shaped like squares instead of circles like litterally any other game, which is how you get that magnetic feeling when moving around. There's a mod that patches this and it's a night and day difference
That Fume Knight fight was incredibly clean, it was wonderful to watch.
6:30
okay, this one is personally for me why i really like you, i remember asking about the backstabs, and THIS really did a lot to help me understand some of the gripes i had with it, the major one was that i didn't know that backstabs were disabled for a moment after a sucessful one
Always happy to help.
Something like this can be confusing at first, but it makes perfect sense why they implemented it as a way to prevent it from being too cheesable.
I remember spending a whole day watching that 12ish hour series. Towards the end he was hyping up his own defense of DS2 like it was going to be better than HBomberGuy's, and everything here was his "defense". It's pretty insulting towards every party involved, including people like me who actually thought he was going to defend it.
What your telling me you didn't enjoy the 5 minutes he mustered to say anything nice about it.
@@AceBountyHunterRex I didn't remember the 5 minutes he said something nice about it compared to the other hour and 40 Domo's been tearing apart and on top of that being fatigued from the 10 hours where he calls HBomberGuy an idiot
@@MAYOFORCE ya fair that doesn't surprise me.
According to Mauler, the enemy AI is bad in DS2 because, according to him, it can be easily exploited. Also, the backstab is broken because it isn't as exploitable as it was in the previous game. Very early in the game, there's an enemy that basically teaches the player they shouldn't rely so much on backstabs, but I guess that doesn't matter for Mauler.
I will say I use an alternate controller setup to deal with the 8 directional thing, but at the same time I’ve gotten a lot better at using the right stick to shift control. It just takes some getting used to.
Ok his manual weapon complaint is killing me thats the reason i use heavy weapons its part of the playstyle
I always knew there was something weird about those mauler videos
I always make my characters with bright red skin too ! Looks cool and distinctive, like a demon 😈
the 8 directional movement has always been a sore spot for me. You can tune it down a bit by adjusting deadzones but if your controller is old then it might make it too sensitive. Its not a massive issue and easily something you can get used to, of course, but for someone like me who often replays the games back to back it's always jarring.
Nice moves on that bone fist 😊
The thing with the snap points is something that I can understand in principle. Most games don't do it so it can feel weird when one game suddenly does it. It's true that you can aim with the camera, but it might feel unnatural. That being said, I also noticed that this system has its advantages and it's exactly as you showed. Since it only snaps when you move the light stick quite a bit, it's less likely for you to suddenly turn after having lined up a jump. Basically, the 8 point snap system can help you reduce the amount of deaths due to you moving the light analog stick slightly and therefore making platforming safer.
However, what I think would have been the best is just to give players the option. The same thing that DS3 does with the directional attacks. Which btw, not sure, if you will do more about MauLer, but later when he wants to claim that DS1 was preferred over DS2 by the developers, he says that it's gone in DS3. While they just gave you the option.
Honestly the times I died to gravity and falls in ds1 is greater by orders of magnitude than those in ds2. I still prefer ds1 movement granted, but platforming never felt easier in 1 rather than in 2
Where were u when we needed you years ago… before scholar even existed …
If you play pc games virtually all of them have 45 degree snap movement by the nature of using a keyboard and it's never hindered anyone's movement. And then there's actual objective improvements over DS1 that get ignored, like being able to roll in any direction or sprinting 360 degrees when locked on that are fundamental staples now. You could only sprint straight at an enemy when you were locked on in ds1. I use sprint a lot more in combat and bosses in DS2 to move around and avoid attacks.
Yes, but that is something you expect from a keyboard. You only have 4 keys, therefore you can only move in those directions or the combination of two of them, resulting in an 8 directional control for any game. In exchange, you have a higher accuracy in the camera movement, as you can use your whole arm to control the mouse instead of just the thumb that controls a joystick.
However, a joystick has, in theory, absolute 360° control. So the game forcing you to stick to those same 8 when every other modern game gives you absolute control over your character's motion feels clunky and unresponsive. It also does this without giving you the higher camera accuracy of the mouse.
If I had to guess, I would say that most people who play Fromsoft games use a controler, so it's understandable that they would complain.
"Does turning even push you forward."
Might be because I'm on Pc and using keyboard, but in some situations it does feel like at least Forward momentum is carried even if you turn sharply, and in some situations it has lead to me falling off to my death.
Though I doesn't feel as common as MauLer paints it, but it has happened to me and it feels bad every time. but that do be my perspective on that.
The manual attack aiming thing kills me, because its not that hard to figure out that the direction your holding effects your swing, i would argue 99% of people figure this out when it happens based on context. Like its really not that hard to get IMO
It's not even my favourite Souls game but people who mindlessly hate DS2 annoy me, with the exception of a few things (Soul Memory, weird implementation of ADP) I find a lot of my issues with DS2 are present in the entire Souls series and I get annoyed when the things that DS2 does right is buried under braindead non-points or double standards from people who never played the game, or went in wanting to hate it
9:22 "If we pay attention to the left arm, we see that the dark dweller has just been backstabbed. This is the chain backstab prevention working as intended."
And if we pay attention to the FULL HEALTHBAR of the enemy at 9:16, we see that you are lieing. The dweller was not backstabbed before.
Mauler is overreacting, but the deadzone is an issue in DS2.
The 'angle snapping'(there is full/smooth 360 degrees accessible, just offset) is most likely not intentional, but a byproduct of using axial deadzones over radial ones(which DS1 and 3 used). This restricts the entire region around each axis and the amount of angular restriction is directly tied to the deadzone size. Dark Souls' deadzones are larger than most(36%, vs ~25% for many others), so DS2 restricts angles notably more than other games that also use axial deadzones.
The 90' snap with slow movements is directly from the axial deadzone, since the restriction is heaviest around the deadzone. There are better implementations if angular restriction is desired that keeps the restriction consistent at every stick distance so you can still make small diagonal movements easily(Super Mario 3D World as an example). Many games do use axial deadzones, but many appear unintentional, such as an engine default that made it through production or a simple mix up during implementation.
Using the camera for angle adjustments is not ideal, and only demonstrates that the movement control is lacking if the camera is being used to supplement it.
Even with better implementations, I don't see much benefit of angular restriction outside of very specific titles. I can't say I've ever missed a jump with unrestricted diagonals, but there is always an option to add a slider to customize the level of restriction. I wouldn't really expect FROM to add that, but it would cater to everyone.
0:43 this is true,it happens all times when i try to fall at majula pit or do the the grave of saints parkour
I Remember Using Laptop Keyboard to Finish This Game because The Arrow Button has a Close Page Down and Up,Closer right alt and Shift
Yeah i Finish DS 1 PTDE with this Laptop Keyboard too
Remastered Ver using Normal KBM because i cant Set it up to my Keyboard layout
As someone who played DS1, DS3 and Elden Ring before DS2 ... What is bro yapping about. I never had an issue with the movement in DS2 because I usually use my camera when turning. If anything I had an issue with the movement in DS1 because you can only roll into 4 directions when locked on. But thats also not a big issue that warrants a video on how the movement in DS1 is bad. Once again making up problems to make a negative video about because negativity brings views.
It's so weird that people will gleefully call DS3 a great successor to DS1 (which it is pretty good, but hardly perfect just like the rest of the Souls Series), yet bash on DS2 because... it "plays" different? Like, it's abundantly obvious in DS3 that you can't outright play it like DS1, but the same rule should be fairly obvious to apply to... any game, really. Yeah the mechanics are similar, but that doesn't mean you should be a brainlet and just insist on playing DS2 like it's DS1. It's bizarre this "criticism" gets praised when people would most DEFINITELY call others stupid for being mad that you can't play DS3 like it's DS1. On a sidenote, I noticed DS3 has a ridiculously higher amount of situations you can take varying amounts of fall damage from, but the Cat Ring is gotten from Sirris' questline rather than being available at the start of the game.
And god watching Mauler play feels like watching a "game journalist" play games. Chances are he has the skills of one too given it never crossed his mind that DS2 changed the backstab and a few other mechanics that got uberexploited in DS1.
lol, I can’t believe this guys complaining about the platforming.
As the other comment said, you are literally on a mission and I hope you succeed in it.
I think his video is also more about hbomberguys review. Im not a big ds2 fan, but i have just as many hours in it as any other souls game. Must be pretty good
Based 10:43
I want to play DS2 now.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this! As soon as I started watching that MauLer video, I got filled with frustration over how nonsensical those reasons were for hating Ds2. It's so jarring seeing someone give fancy names to their skill issues, like "8 Directional Whatever", and getting loads of views and likes for it
8 directional movement is a thing, but it is a thing in Elden Ring and lots of other third person games as well. People that play a lot of platformers might even modify their analog sticks to have built in 8 directional movement like the N64 or GameCube controller had.
I guess I have to cover that again in the next video.
@@Domo3000 absolutely, I wasn't saying it's made up! I wanted to point out how MauLer uses names he doesn't even properly understand in order to give an aura of techical knowledge to his opinions and pass his skill issues as a faults of the game. But I admit I phrased it poorly
1:50 this might be a little nitpick, but if you play the original DS2 on console (PS3/Xbox360), there is a non-zero percent probability that these jumps will fall short of where you are aiming, even if you time your jump correctly from the optimal position because your jumping distance would sometimes be halved. This problem was only really prevalent in the original console releases because the "baby jump" issue was tied to framerate, and the console versions ran below 20fps most of the time.
I guess this nitpick is mostly a +1 for SotFS because it runs on PS4/XboxOne, and it's very unlikely anyone will be experiencing the game below 60fps because the game is so well optimized. Just thought I should mention that problems with platforming in DS2 *did* exist in the past, and it usually caused you to die when it happened.
If your character is seriously injured about 10% hp, your character move/attack slowly and your jump distance also reduced.
9:40 AngryJoe did pretty much the same thing to Risen games
I do wish reverse backstep and reverse roll was in ds2 but those aren't exactly intended mechanics.
Uh. Reverse backstep is present.
@@asdergold1 Sort of, but technically not. Real reverse back step can be performed out of any animation, in ds2 reverse back stepping is just a normal back step but you turn around first. unless there's something I don't know about.
Oh no, DS2 makes you play the game on an even field and punishes you for trying to skip enemies and whatnot. Meanwhile you can run and dodge past most everything in DS1.
can you explain whats his video about?
That he pretends to offer a defense for DS2 but actually only shits on it with mostly made-up issues and falsehoods.
@@Domo3000You’ve claimed that you don’t want to be smug or condescending, but I think you’re pretty much headed in that direction, as evidenced here.
@@Blyegh You might be right, but unfortunately I think it's a pretty accurate appraisal of Mauler's video
@Blyegh smug and condescending is maulers brand. Not domos fault he happens to be a moron when it comes to ds2. (Or avatar the last Airbender or a few more examples)
@@Puccible If you make a promise to not feed into petty behavior but then do it anyways, it’s disingenuous and ruins the content. Most of the time when someone tells you “I don’t mean to me rude…” they almost always follow it up with something passive-aggressive or rude, like the first half of the statement gave them a shield of protection against criticism for bad behavior.
It’s even more ironic, considering MauLer has made the same objective to not be condescending and smug “like Hbomberguy”. I’m not unreasonable for putting *all* of those content creators (including Domo3000) on a standard they, themselves, asked for. If anything, I’m appealing to the integrity they all claim to want to have.
I understand wanting to explore the analysis side of UA-cam, and more specifically defending an opinion on something you may deem under appreciated. That is perfectly acceptable. But for all of his faults, and with all irony in mind, MauLer was right for pointing out the pettiness and haughtiness of other creators.
More of these content creators absolutely need to be brought down a few pegs. The last thing we need is yet another arrogant UA-cam critic that makes bold claims like “I will be reasonable by maintaining integrity in my work, and I will always try to stick to the facts and facts alone”, only to then progressively get high off of their praise for mercilessly bashing other content creators, no matter how justified it was, and to use out-of-context video clips or public comments to justify their stances.
Domo3000 *just started* [their] rise to fame and infamy, and [they] are already falling into the same exact pitfalls of the last… I want to sayyy… *4 content creators* that have been been involved in this never-ending discourse of a flawed and enjoyable game, and all while most of them have said “Not to be rude, buuut-“. It’s disingenuous and stupid. If you’re going to be petty, then *own* it. Don’t be a coward. Either have such an overwhelming amount of conviction in each statement you make, or be *smart* and make carefully measured responses in the name of objectivity and civil discussion. You cannot have both. Otherwise, don’t waste everyone’s time.
I found movement in ds2 better than one. I love one, and I 100% the game I can say what the hell I want about it.
This reminds me of battle for bikini bottom rehydrated. With the bowling bubble.
scared the shit out of me 4:10
How?
@@RavenGamingOverLord i dont know if it was a bug but the music just got really loud like ear bursting loud
5:25 It makes it unintuitive at best. Fixing the games problems yourself doesn't mean it's not a issue. Seems like DS3 fixed it.
hey man, I just wanna ask if you'll call out Feeble King as well. He made some stupid claims about SotFS. It's just you're finally bringing scholar haters justice which I'm grateful for.
I've got you covered: ua-cam.com/video/8FdMy30_f98/v-deo.html
@@Domo3000 thanks bro!
A game can work perfectly as intended but not make any sense from a players perspective or from a design viewpoint.
I have to say that I disagree with a couple of things you say. Namely, your use of the phrase “slightly different” to describe the movement in SOTFS (that’s the only version of DS2 I’ve played, so I don’t know if vanilla plays differently). It just comes off as an extremely flimsy conclusion to the entire rebuttal to Mauler’s arguments. Like don’t get me wrong, the equip load affecting fall damage is something I didn’t know about, and that’s a great counterpoint to make. But to say that it’s slightly different from DS1 doesn’t have the oomph I’d expect from an opposing viewpoint. I could say that the Bed of Chaos is a slightly different boss fight than normal, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good fight. Anyways, I find the movement to feel rather clunky at times, especially when I’m sprinting. Even if I move the camera, I still get the same “snap point” feel he describes. Now, platforming in Souls has never been an enjoyable thing. Just ask anyone trying to get to the Sen’s Fortress merchant. And it can be just as tedious in SOTFS as it is in 1 or 3.
On backstabs, though, I think we have a lot of common ground. I learned when trying to beat black knights at a low SL in DS1 that animations would not always guarantee a backstab, and the same holds true for SOTFS. That said, it’s still entirely possible to chain backstabs in Scholar, if you get the timing down. For instance, those tower knight (? I think that’s what the golden armored knights in Drangelic are called), can be backstabbed. And when they’re getting up, they are invulnerable to backstabs. However, once they finish getting up, there’s an animation switch from “get up” to “ready for combat”, and when that switch happens, you can backstab again. I bring this up because that’s the same trick I use for cheesing BKs in DS1, is waiting for that animation switch. Are they broken in DS2? I don’t think so. I haven’t come across any bad backstabs. The closest is when my character does the initial backstab animation but it doesn’t tag the enemy and so I just punch uselessly in the air, but I always assumed that was something like “I was just ever so slightly off on the backstab, so lemme just position a tiny bit better and we’ll see what happens”, and then I get the backstab.
Lastly, and this isn’t a disagreement with you, but a personal observation about myself. I find that when I enjoy a game, I seek out more information about it so I can play through it again better. I’ve done this with DS1 and Bloodborne, but not with DS2 or 3. I don’t think 2 or 3 are bad games, but I do find them to have long swathes of tedium and bland gameplay. DS3 is a snoozefest punctuated by fun boss fights (sometimes), and DS2 more often than not feels like a 25mph road with speed bumps every 50 feet. Like it’s already a slow feeling game (which i like), but you factor in the level design and enemy placement and it just feels like my progress is being bogged down way too much to be fun to play through. You said that the backstab changes were made to ensure players couldn’t cheese the game, but I find myself resorting to cheesing enemy encounters more often than not nowadays because I really don’t want to get swarmed by a half dozen enemies all bearing down on me at once.
I don’t want it to seem like I’m hating on DS2, because I find it fun to just go hog wild on wacky builds because the game gives you the freedom to do that. You want to try using an ultragreatsword? Bring a soul vessel to the Firekeeper and reallocate your stats to make use of it. Oh you don’t like it? There’s another soul vessel so you can change back if you want. But I read the other comments and from what I gathered, you’re essentially responding to the entire video in question, but each video tackles a different argument. This one was on movement, platforming, fall damage, and backstabs, and I assume there are other videos of yours that would go into other arguments (I haven’t checked because this is a long comment and I don’t want to have to retype it all out again lol). I do genuinely appreciate your stance though, and anything I didn’t bring up is probably because I agree with it. I’ll be checking out your channel at some point (it’s late for me as I’m writing this and I need to go to bed) and seeing what else you have to say, or what other tips and tricks you can give for DS2! Take care!
My only critism of ds2's movement is the rolling attacks. They are actually very hard to aim, and unlike other souls games, it doesn't correct it at all regardless of weapon type, which just makes me feel really really dumb when i do a rolling attack at NOTHING
Wait half a second after the animation is finished.
Literally just be patient.
@@asdergold1you don't even have to wait that long. You can start attacking while you are coming out of the roll
I think the issue is almost all the not big weapon rolling attacks are stab/single target attack animations, so you kinda have to roll into the enemy for them to hit. Unless you have one of the manual aim weapons then you can do some funky looking stuff that's very satisfying.
@@knivy6160 That's kinda my issue, but as the comments always point out it's just a skill issue ig.
The 8 directional snap points on joystick seems like an odd design choice. And forcing the player to adjust the movement more accurately with the camera instead of having that option with both is a bad choice in my opinion. Although I've never noticed it because I exclusively use mouse and keyboard and I'm locked into specific directions anyway.
I am not understanding the counter point to the ladder. In the clip Mauler used, his character was pushing the enemies away and eventually reached infront of the ladder, but the game doesn't let the character actually climb afterwards because it still registers as the path being blocked. And as other clips in Mauler's video showed, and from my personal experience, the problem with the ladders occurs even when the enemy is clearly behind your character and not blocking any parts of the ladder. I would much rather take phasing through an enemy instead of having them somehow block my access to a ladder from behind me when I am already infront of the ladder.
Elden Ring has the same snap points as DS2, and so do lots of other third person games like every Zelda title.
It's not an odd choice. It's just something that MauLer complains about because he likes to hate on DS2.
@@Domo3000 It is odd to limit the finer control to the camera movement instead of utilizing it for both joysticks. And they could have made it optional anyway. It's also weird that they changed it when in DS1 it worked and the movement didn't necessarily need any changes beyond removing the 4 directional rolling when locked on and how attacks worked when locked on.
Does Elden Ring have them too? The only thing I am able to find on the matter is a single Steam thread discussing janky movement in the game. You could do a video on them if you have not already, I would be interested.
From a purely design perspective, I do think it is an inferior choice. But then again, I don't have experience with it because I do not use controllers. I can however see why people are frustrated with it when it directly removes finer control from the player and forces the camera to be used for movement. But every reaction to that is subjective and one cannot satisfy everyone.
Finally someone who actually has functioning eyes in this comment section. Like don't they see how blatantly it snaps either to upper left or upper right when you slightly push your joystick into that direction? Every game after DS3 has way smoother movement than DS2. I also find the guy defending DS2 very dishonest. He played DS2 multiple times and adapted to the jank the game has and now he is pretending that some things in said game aren't janky. Like it's cool dude, no game is perfect. Many games have issues. You can point them out and still love the game. You don't have to defend it to death because you love the game. Personally I love DS2 but I won't and I can't pretend that it doesn't have issues.
Also also Mauler doesn't hate on the game, he is merely criticizing the jank. Why does it have to be loving or hating a game when it comes down speaking your mind? Can't people simply point out some issues?
I too would rather phase through enemies rather then wait for my character get to the ladder. Especialy when we are talking about the runback to Mytha. (without using the hidden bonfire, unlike the guy in this video I'm actually looking at it from the perspective of a new player and not someone who has already played this and adapted to this, well cause it's what most players experienced)
@@jokemon9547
This is most likely accidental, rather than an intentional design choice. The set up for radial and axial deadzones is the same, only differing from referencing the center or each X/Y axis. Engines will often default to axial deadzones and developers can end up working on top of those even if they apply everything else radially.
Countless games use axial deadzones(also a huge part why controllers are inaccurate in shooters), but DS2 specifically stands out because the angular restriction('snap points') directly scales with deadzone size(Dark Souls' deadzone is very large), and DS1 and 3 used radial deadzones so there's a more direct comparison.
Whenever I returned to ds3 after ds2, I felt like I was swerving when I was running. Ds2 just makes it a lot smoother to run in a straight line
Same for me. The deadzones in DS2 never impacted me negatively, but the lack of them in the other Souls games does by feeling jittery when trying to run in a straight line and often messing up jumps and jump attacks.
It's silly in a 3rd person game that you have to use the camera to do precise movement. You can use the 4 directional roll argument against ds1 as much as you want, but how tf does that logic work if you can just lock off before rolling? Just fix the problem for the game by having to do extra steps, 4head.
Darksouls 2 haters hate the game for the wrong reasons.
Tbh the controls were the worst part of ds1😂
I just recently play DS2 and DS3 in a row because I had time. And let me tell you something: DS2 is clearly not as bad as people tell you. Yeah there is more flaws in some details and the gameplay is clearly not that smooth. But for me the exploration was WAY cooler in DS2. So many cool environnements, it's just a shame that some areas like shrine of amana are 10/10 for look and feeling but 2/10 for ennemies placement. In DS3 yeah the areas are more 3D but they clearly are not as original as DS2 areas
DS2 flaws are bullshit spots, bad bosses and some horrible runs to bosses. But other than that ? Not that big of a deal. DS2 had SO MANY cool little features. The fact that you can destroy some walls and some doors if there are made of wood. The different traps and chest traps, the wooden door you can't open because "there is something blocking the door" that you take damage from because of the sand behind. The stone statues you can destroy to stop spawing ghost in the catacombs. THE SPECTRUM ENNEMIES in the forest that look like other players but it was a mob thay attacked you from behind. That's the coolest thing I have ever seen
DS2 is cearly a very very good game, as good the the other 2 but not for the same reasons. The exploration part is the second best of all Fromsoft games just behind Elden Ring. Everything is in ruins. Everything is deserted, dead, lost, forsaken and then you come back to Majula with people you encountered, a little place of peace, before going on anoter adventure in a different road. I know the "DS2 good because Majula" is not a good argument. But the dichotomy between the world and Majula is really great
DS2 is maybe not a better game than DS1 or DS3 (but as I said on par) but it was a better experience. There is a really weird sentiment of hopelessness in DS2, and the game made me feel... empty ? The endings are more impactful because in fact there are LESS impactful in the world. It's really hard to explain. You know the meme with the happy wojack and the dark sad wojack ? The happy wojack is "I triumphed DS1/DS3" and the sad one is "I triumphed Dark Souls 2..."
If you like those spectrum warriors I've got something for you that will make them even better.
You can barely see anything in the fog, right? So can they. They are basically blind and instead react to sound.
You can hit the trees to distract them and sneak past them. Never seen something like that in a Souls game either.
Here's a demonstration: ua-cam.com/video/r6UnM71suiU/v-deo.html
@@Domo3000 yeah yeah I know. The concept of this little area is so damn original. Nothing come close to that in DS1 or DS3. Or even any other Fromsoft game ?
they also added snap points to elden ring lol
Lots of platformers have them as well, but he does not know any better and just claims that it's an objective fact that players prefer full 360 degree movement in 3d games.
Hey for the whole slant death in ds1 why are you not showing your healthbar or anything else?
Try it yourself. Push yourself into the ledge on the right and run down. It's a known bug as it considers you to be falling while you are on sloped ground and then you take damage for the height you covered
Huh didn't know that
@@generights it also works on other downward slopes, like there's one in Anor Londo that once killed a speedrunner
When you were presenting the backstab hitboxes for the alonne knights you are way farther to the left than mauler was. Mauler would of been in that hitbox as he is very slightly left of the knight yet most of the bodys overlapping.
Best souls 2
mauler dumpstered
There is a reason just about every 3rd person game will never restrict your movement like that. You can say it's not objectively worse, but you can say that about just about anything. Regardless, probably 9 out of 10 people would prefer to not need to use the right stick for precise movement in a game where you optimally have your thumb on B/Circle every second. But then I guess you might say there's no objective reason not to use claw grip, as though we don't all know why that sucks too.
you'd be surprised how little you need the b button ever. I have a save dedicated to that, it's really not that hard to space yourself to avoid attacks or block things instead. Also this issue is a lot bigger if you play locked on all the time, which I thoroughly think you should NOT be doing, esp in ds2. Locking is nice if you're trying block something or just track a certain enemy, but playing without the lock on is actually just easier, with a little learning curve to it.
I am well aware of how unnecessary dodging technically is, and how much things open up without lock-on. Doesn't change the situation for just about every player, or the fact that I want to be sprinting most of the time. An often better control scheme for Dark Souls, especially 2 with this issue, would have LB be dodge/sprint, as it frees up your thumb without an uncomfortable grip. I've played DS3 like that a bit and found it enjoyable.
Just a flat out liar again. People will believe anyone with a smug English accent.
You understand he thinks platforming is bad in the whole ds series. His video is a response video about ds2 he wont prefrace this each and every time about how bad platfroming is in ds1.
Source? I don‘t want to watch 10h
@@IvyDoll-jf3gm if you won't here him out then you don't actually care. Just accept that you want to stay in an echo chamber than rather accept me telling you he doesn't like it.
Thanks. „Just trust me bro“ always convinces me.
@@generights What? You can't say someone is in an echo chamber because they wont watch an ~11 hour video series for a single statement.
Omega based, Mauler's entire video is pure cringe.
10:23 no it doesn’t have a higher skill ceiling maybe for PvP, but the pve is the easiest because bonfire aesthetics, life gems, 90% of the bosses easily being beaten by mindless circle strafing, and ADP is the most op stat in the entire series giving you more invincibility frames.
That's a low skill floor.
@@Domo3000 how does it have a higher skill ceiling than Sekiro with it’s prosthetics, and ER with all the cool stuff you can do with the ash of wars and jump s, just watch Ongbal it’s literal eye candy, bro mastered both games. Why has Ongbal never made videos on ds2? It’s because the pve is mechanically simple and lacks the depth in future titles.
I don’t think it does, other than PvP, as I described circle strafing is still the best way people defeat these bosses, and they lack the mechanical complexity of every future title.
The pve of ds2 is simply outclassed by everything that came after it, Fromsoft continues to evolve and learn.
@@MakioGoHardio
First, I meant to say "the other Souls games".
Secondly, the things I'm doing are also literal eye candy.
The Fume Knight clip here, the Drakekeeper clip, all the attacks and spells I evaded by jumping over them, etc
I just don't see how it's mechanically simple compared to the other Souls games as it gives you a lot more possibilities and depth than those.
@@Domo3000 ohhh I’m sorry I didn’t see your second message you were only talking about the souls games, I can see where you’re coming from there as DS3 skill ceiling is not very high in pve, and ds1 is very simple in comparison it ds2.
Although I do think the general pve experience in DS3 is overall better as the boss quality is very high but that’s just because I personally play these games for the bosses.
Ive never understood the complaints about the movement, like how fucking bad do you have to be to have a problem with the movement.
Imagine complaining about finicky or hard to judge backstab windows as if that's not a super annoying thing across every single souls game
Domo just styling on Raime when that is where my DS2 playthroughs go to cry and die, LOL XD
To me the 8 direction snap points are irritating regardless whether you can rotate camera or not, it's just stupid and pointless, I have no clue why would they add that, thankfully there is a way to fix that on nexus.
"it's just stupid and pointless". Did you watch the video? Domo literally shows an advantage the system has; platforming is less finicky than in DS1 thanks to this system. And it genuinely is such a non-issue if you use the right stick for movement. So much so that I literally didn't even know it was a thing until after my 3rd full play through. I beat the entire game THREE TIMES and got the platinum trophy before ever realizing movement was "locked" in 8 directions.
@@ReelBigFan You must not be very observant then, I felt that something's not right with the movement literally seconds after starting.
@@ReelBigFan And Idc if it makes platforming "less finicky", if I wanted precision (for example if I was a speedrunner) then I'd play on mouse and keyboard, I never had problem with platforming in DS1 or DS2 without snap points in the first place.
@@250minecraft I could tell the movement wasn't identical to BB or DS1 (the two games I played prior) but it wasn't ever something that caused issues or tripped me up so I never looked into it. 95% of the time it just never factored in because I control my characters direction with the camera. It wasn't because I wasn't paying attention, it was literally because it wasn't something I dealt with the vast majority of the time I spent playing.
The "issue" of 8-directional movement is only an issue if you don't use the camera to adjust your position, which is generally suboptimal for these games to begin with.
Edit: and in regards to your other comment, not everyone plays PC and has the option to use MKB. And just because you don't care about it doesn't invalidate the argument. There are plenty of shitty platforming sections in DS1 that would have been easier to perform with DS2s controls, and given DS2 has more platforming sections than 1 it's nice that they actually took the time to try to improve that aspect instead of just letting it remain shitty.
@@ReelBigFan Well, the fact that most people complain about it means that it is an issue, it would have been ok if there was an option in the menu to disable it, and you're talking about these games as if they were platformers like crash bandicoot or sm64, which they are not, platforming is just a tiny part of these games and they don't require much precision (except that one jump in earthen peak)
0:27 > never even considered to turn the camera ... it's unwillingness to adapt to minor changes
Snap turning isn't a minor change. Movement is an extremely important aspect of any action game and it's extremely easy to fuck it up.
Having a workaround for the problem doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist.
If anything, it's the exact opposite.
Snap turning in DS2 is only seen as problematic due to the DS2 tax and people looking for reasons to hate it.
No one cares if a lot of other third person games like Breath of the Wild or even Elden Ring use the same system.
It's not a problem. It's just a slightly different movement system.
@@Domo3000 Not the point. That's just a bad argument.
Akin to "works on my machine" in programming.
> No one cares if a lot of other third person games like Breath of the Wild or even Elden Ring use the same system
This is whataboutism.
> It's not a problem
That's your opinion.
Had it been implemented in, say, DMC3/4/5, which are my favourites, it would've made the game borderline unplayable or at the very least not that enjoyable on a high difficulty for me.
By the way, this is also not an argument.