THIS is How it ENDS?!: FF13 - Day 11 & Final Thoughts
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
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My favorite part of FF13's story is still this:
At the end, the evil pope man tells the heroes to go to the place and kill the thing, but in bold defiance of fate itself the heroes tell the evil pope man to go F himself.... before going to the place and killing the thing.
Genuinely baffling to me that people like the story.
Having played this when it first came out...yeah, that ending always annoyed me. The gameplay was fun, the story kinda fell flat.
My main memory of the plot is the characters saying "We'll save Cocoon!" with absolutely no plan and nothing in the game hinting on how it's even possible.
whats even more silly is when you realize the pope/demigod dude did everything just so that his dad would notice him lmao
He knew that they were defying him, thus making Cid the new primarch and creating the civil war. He was going to get the military to kill Orphan if the gang refused.
I gotta say, I absolutely love these daily "review-type videos." it honestly feels like a modern let's play in a way lmfao. Makes me wish you were doing these back when you played 7 and 8.
Same, this are great videos all around, great and fun format for long and dense games or rpgs.
yeah these are terrific!
Such a crazy journey seeing Mike go from an FF14 sprout joking that there was no way anyone in chat actually ever played FF1 to now not only going on to complete FF14 but also finishing the single player FF titles. Now this FF chad confirmed he's tackling the sequels + Tactics! I know he's said that he's not doing FF11 but I'm praying!! Preach has been such a fun content creator for Final Fantasy and I CANNOT WAIT FOR HIS LEGACY SERIES coverage of it :)
I really hope he plays World of Final Fantasy. Hed really appriciate all the character and monster cameos and also its just a really solid, unique monster capturing game
Savefile soft lock from Wiegraf/Belias waiting room PepeLaugh
TACTICS HYPE
Also, mad respect for no back seat gaming... But make a backup save before Riovanes...
Can’t wait until he sees how the plot continues in FFXIII-2……like what literally happens 2 seconds after the end
Its really bad lol, 13-2 and 13-3 makes 13 look like a masterpiece
@@fredy2041 I guess we've played a different game, because Caius is the goat
@@fredy2041 Caius is the absolute goat, what are you talking about?
@@fredy2041almost ruined the franchise 🤦♂️ Sure Jan 🫵🤡 The over arching story of 13 is better than any FF story from 1-9 🤷♂️
@@fredy2041 You have not played it lol
I absolutely LOVE these day by day thoughts videos on your playthroughs of all the games you're playing. I'm glad you're still making them :)
From my memory of 13's release, and my personal experience which is very much biased, I think the reasons it got the hate were:
- characters that most people did not like. Lightning was seen like SE wanted to sell a new Cloud, Snow was not liked at all by wanna be edgy teenagers, Vanille was seen as very annoying, and Hope is Hope.
- battle system is cool when you're underlevel, but that was not how we played, specially because (as Mike said) it was our only game for X months. So most battles were seen as auto battle raveger until stagger, into autobattle commando until death.
- level system and item system were horrible as Mike acknowledged
- the famous "hallway gameplay". A lot people dismiss this because there are other linear FFs, but this isn't just about a linear story/gameplay. It's more that, aside from a single chapter, you never have any choice besides going forward. 10 is very linear, but you can still do other stuff. You can go around the town, do minigames, go back to other zones. But in 13 you had no choice. No real interaction with any npcs or the world. You can only walk to the next story point.
- the story having clear flaws in writing, and the world building needing the archives to make any sort of sense or cohesion. This is made worse by the fact that there are no npcs to interact with and give more depth to the world. And I remember a lot of people really hating having to read the archives to understand the narrative.
I think a lot of people bounced super hard off the combat system I know I did both when I originally played it and when I tried it again during lockdown. Was also not keen on the story at all
Yup, i hated the combat. It bored me to tears and had no desire to keep playing.
"Is this going to be about progenitorial wrath?" "Yup."
I think FF13 has the same problem that FF15 did, i.e. that a lot of points in the story only make sense if you either dig up the most obscure entries in the in-game encyclopedia (some of which I don't think are even available until the post-game), or else straight-up require external materials to understand.
In the case of Ragnarok, it was always supposed to be the combined version we see in the ending: Fang by herself was much less powerful, and this was also the case when she became Ragnarok by herself in the back story (only breaking part of Cocoon's shell instead of destroying it and/or killing Orphan). It does basically make sense.
But that would all make for a more compelling narrative if they actually bothered to *tell* the player much of any of it in the course of the main story.
FF13 only really has two things. The story and the battle system. If you don’t click with one of those it just isn’t enjoyable.
34:15 I'm just imagining Mike flipping the cake table at Urianger's surprise birthday party.
They don’t make it clear enough that barty fuses w orphan and then when you defeat them the second encounter is with the actual real orphan. Not that it makes that much a difference but I feel like it is relevant as to why the last few sequences of dialog play out the way they do.
I also like how there are things about the ending that don’t make any sense, but they aren’t the things he pointed out, which do mostly make sense to me.
They do repeatedly say that Fal'cie are locked into preserving Cocoon and can't directly destroy it. So it's weird that he couldn't figure out that's why the shield went up, but Mike has a way of missing painfully obvious information.
Also still hasn't realized that Hope was looking for Fang and Vanille at the end, not his mom.
@@khinzaw77 In fairness to the latter point, he got the idea that Hope was looking for his mom from just the looks Hope was giving, and then he started cracking up laughing because of it, so he had no chance of actually noticing the dialogue. It is his fault, but also, once you get to that idea, I can understand laughing enough at the absurdity that you miss the dialogue
WOOO, SAZH GANG. He is so underrated and I'm happy Preach enjoyed his character. I felt the exact same way about him
I am glad Preach wants to play XIII-2 but has anyone told him XIII-2 is broken on PC it crashes every 15mins or so game came out in 2011 13 years later still no fix from Square enix probably take them about 5mins to go into the game and go oh that is the problem and fix it but square be square.
Some great mods help the game, ff13fix, leaviathans tears and 4gb exe patch, otherwise the default port is omg very veryyyyyy questionable on quality.
@@Siul_987tbh questionable is a understatement the fact that steam still sells it on the shop the fact that Square easily knows at this point and is flat out ignoring it at this point for over 10 years is anti-consumer to another level
@@shadoxp3772 I agree with you tbh, is one of the most horrible ports I have played lol, it runs as low as 5fps on steam deck by default and the game does not even use resources of any high end PC.
In hindsight i imagine the White Ceith that are towards the end of the game that can inflict Death, were supposed to be the "hint" for players to seek out a way to prevent it, apparently you can just buy the Cherub's crown in the shop (and one in a chest that he missed) that has death resist and upgrade it to a Seraph's crown that has up to 60% resist to death + Veil that Sazh was giving can make you nearly immune (like 10% chance of landing). Knowing that Orphan's instant KO prioritizes SEN and MED is straight up impossible without looking it up in a guide though
Have I completely lost my mind? I remember FFXIII ending at the village while on Pulse. Explored the place, got disappointed there were no people, and then fought a big ugly thing at a cliff's edge. And then credits rolled. Did I get some sort of bad ending? There was no return to Cocoon for me. I've always hated how stupidly FFXIII ended, but now I wonder if I even SAW the proper ending!
You might have a false memory on your hands. Plenty of people quit at Oerba after doing a bit of grinding of hunts thanks to The “last chance” comment before going back to Eden. Maybe you did and somehow got mixed up.
@@LC-sc3en This is actually pretty funny, since that's more or less what happened to me while playing FFXII. I got bogged down in hunts and just... wandered away from it without ever actually fighting the final boss (though at that point, I had done the super bosses - and the story just fizzled out, and I had no desire to actually finish it). But that I remember very vividly! For XIII, its bizarre to me that I could totally misremember seeing credits where I did. Super weird!
"Then the ending happens" Oh no...
Lightning was never a bad character, she was just so bland that there wasn't much to like.
Other than the terminology I don't think following the story was ever that difficult. It's just that it was so full of holes that they had to make up a tonne of nonsensical BS to fill them.
Not everyone can be a wacky cartoon character bud. What you call bland is normal to most people.
@@Dotoku44 Most people would say Lightning is brooding and disciplined in 13. And much like stoicism and placidity, those aren't exactly the most exciting traits in a hero unless you _really_ love subtly. You don't need a "wacky cartoon character" either since this isn't a binary issue. You can have cool headed main characters who don't fart or silently scowl constantly, it's fine
I have completed XIII, about 4 times (?), and i found Orphan too EASY. Equip gear to prevent Death (it exists) and use Poison, stall and heal, reapply poison, it eventually dies lol
I've beaten it a couple times too in the past and just beat the crap out of it with cerberus and tri disaster paradigms. The best defense is a good offense after all.
The crystal pillar scene does look incredible though
13 came out in the era where SE was high of their own farts thinking they can't fail because graphics gooder, I'm glad they got knocked off their pillar later on lol
@@psoffxifan4904 xiii, xiv 1.0 and xv in a row would humble any development team on any company in all honesty lol.
Xiii is not so bad though, but definitely a step down, the other were failure on experiments tbh.
Its a shame he never understood how the combat system worked, but to be fair the game is incredibly obscure on how to approach things optimally.
I went to the VOD after seeing how long phase 2 took him. Someone could have told him about ATB recharging, or using multiple saboteurs high chain to land debuffs, or triple ravager, or triple commando.
His kill took 20 minutes because he kept doing other stuff inside stagger rather than damaging with Commandos. Then he tried raising stagger chain too passively. All of that stuff is related to using the paradigm system, not equipment or crystarium stats.
I can't wait for Tactics. Still one of my top Final Fantasy's.
did he say he was playing that for sure?
@@SorryMaker 35:20
What a monumental work this whole FF series. I salute you. Your analysis and feelings about all the games and story are top-tier entertainment. Great work by you and the whole team! 👍👍❤
When I played the game first, I thought that Orphan put us into some kind of hallucination, rather than the party actually be turned into zombies (I can't remember how that focus-failed state is spelled like) and of course we would be able to break out of that.... But no, the party was actually turned into those things... and how they were turned back will be explained in XIII-2, quite near the end of the game, if I remember correctly. In fact it is why the next two games even happen in the first place.
I really liked FF5, though it is probably the one game of the series I have seen the fewest people talk about.
You should be shifting paradimes, Every 2 cycles you get a full ATB bar so you're losing so much dmg not shifting constantly but none the less loved watching you playthrough 13 and can't wait to see what you think of 13-2 when you get to it
Mike, thank you for these videos. Your perspective and insight while playing games is intriguing and fun to listen to. ❤
FF Tactics is fucking amazing, can't wait to eventually see you play that one!
i was looking forward to him playing tactics until i realized he's going to pave over all those beautifully written characters with his 4 stock joke voices lol. ovelia's going to be the snobby princess, ramza's going to be manchester bloke, delita's going to be edgelord batman, etc.
Glad you enjoyed. I don't mind the sphere grid that much because you can skip magic on snow for example and rush skills. Not super indepth, but all the modern FF games have identical characters in the end game (full sphere grid, full license board, etc). Not wonderful but I would rate it a C+ or B- just because I like that not every character can learn poison, or death, or whatever ability. There is actually some theory crafting.
I never got the hate for Lightning either. She's not my fav of all time but she's not bad
Can't wait to see you play 13-2 and 13-3!
rebirth is so good cant wait for preach's playthrough of it.
I don't think he's going to like the story of 13-2, he might like the environment and combat even more but the plot of 13-2 is dumb and convoluted, thank god lightning return fix the issue and rap up the story
Very interesting videos on the play through, big fan of this format. I personally disliked FF13, only main number FF I couldn't finish. I really appreciate Preach's thoughts on the game though, its fun to hear varied opinions.
Preach says he will do both 13-2 and 13 LR, but I'll be very surprised if he makes it far into 13-2. Not only does it barely relate to what happened in 13, but it's very anime, and if he couldn't get through Persona 5, I don't see how he will get through it.
the core issue with FF13 story is how it is told. you start in act 2 basically and you are only informed about the basic world understanding in text form so when the game tries to build on that for most people there is nothing. if you can get passed that aspect it is an alright story. i agree with you about the combat i fucking love the swapping back and forth and that the spells you cast doesn't matter that much and it is much more about the role and when you push things and pull back. with that said the fight you struggled with can be cheesed so bad and not just with poison if you get lightnings army of one you still just melt him.
The endgame of 13 is pretty hard from what I recall if you don't grind at all, but if Preach forgot about Leona Lewis' song that would be even funnier.
So happy that Preach intends to play 13-2/Lightning Returns, I really hope his chat encourages him to take some of Serah's more wacky responses there on occasion when he does play them.
Will say I'm really Happy Mike is saving the best for Last, Just have FF5 and Rebirth before we get him to try Tactics! (HOPIUM)
@@fredy2041 they know, thats why they said “the best for last” talking about 5/rebirth and tactics (not xiii).
@@fredy2041 did I said that? Lol damn were is the reading comprehension…
@@fredy2041 rebirth is a masterpiece for me, just think whatever you want 🫡
Best for last meaning: “the last 3 are the best and tactics is the best for OP.”
I never shared my opinion lol
@@fredy2041 Their meaning was incredibly clear. You seem to be the only one who didn't get it
I haven't seen the VODs for 5 yet, but Preach didn't care for the job system in 3. So I'm not holding out much hope for him to enjoy 5's.
Progenitoral Wrath is one of the cheapest attacks ever in ff, for the reason you just mentioned; it can just kill party leader out of nowhere and force a game over. It makes Orphan just a terrible boss fight in general, since its other signature attack, Merciless Judgment, is incapable of killing anyone on its own and is therefore an easy attack to work around.
13's story is ridiculous nonsense, but it's not true that the ending wasn't set up at all. One of the earliest things you find out after meeting Serah is that people turn into crystal formations when they complete a focus. This is a basic rule reinforced throughout the game. Fang and Vanille completed the biggest focus ever, so the crystal they turned into was really big. The irony being that the focus of destroying Orphan was what enabled them to save Cocoon. They loopholed it. It's kind of almost clever, maybe???
I personally think XIII does deserve a lot of the hate. Yes, the combat system is gold but it had annoying things about it like party leader death means gameover, taking to long to open up, and the linearity of the crystarium. XIII-2 takes all that, fixes it, and presents a much better version.
But other than the combat system I can't think of a single thing I like about the game, other than it looks pretty. I didn't like the story, which for a game that funnels you down a noninteractive hallway for the majority of it should be incredible, and I only liked half the party and strongly didn't like the other half. I was literally 13 at release and still felt the characters were immature and horribly written.
For me as a longtime FF fan, who loved X and XII and was really excited for the first FF game on the new console generation, I was just incredibly disappointed.
"Yes, the combat system is gold" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
13 was the first Final Fantasy Game I ever played for myself, and even though I got stuck in the Tower and did not continue out of frustration as a teenage boy, I liked the over the top style tha game has.
Also, I kinda liked Vanille because of...
I always thought that the protags didn't care about killing Orphan anymore because they knew Rosch had everyone under his command focus on evacuation of the citizens to Pulse. With them talking about it to Orphan being a play for time and a hope Barty/Orphan wouldn't realise that even when it dies there won't be a mass extinction event to bring the Maker back.
It absolutely should have been more directely stated but it was never going to be oscar winning storytelling xD
I enjoy it for what it is despite its many faults. Soundtrack and combat system being highlights for me once I learned how to actually play properly and not just auto attack spam :P
I'm excited to see his playthroughs of 13-2 and Lightning Returns. I never finished 13 and I skipped 13-2 but I borrowed someone's PS3 that had lightning returns installed on it and I ended up completely loving it.
That game is truly unique and I played it fully expecting to dislike it and was pleasantly surprised. It also drips of replay value because of the time mechanic and the end dungeon. Did you look up the story of the first two games or did you just not care at all?
Oh! I also quit the game at this boss! I was like "fuck this, I can google the end cinematic" and I did and considered it a W and moved on. Glad to know I wasnt the only one!
It's been so long since I did the fight. I must have gotten lucky, I don't remember struggling with Orphan and beat him on my first try.
I won't claim skill as apparently there's bullshit but I dont remember failing to this boss. But I also did alot of the endgame stuff before finishing, so I was a higher level, I'd killed adamantoise and did all the hunts and stuff so I had all my tools, buffs and debuffs and the ability to land them.
I liked playing as Fang in the late game, Orphan insta-killed me on my first attempt. I swapped characters assuming he was targeting the tank with Death and killed him on the next after a LONG fight.
I think 13 had a very weak story writting of all the FF I played, that's for sure, but as you summarized at the end, I still had a LOT of fun. I know you didn't grind much in your playthrough, but the challenge gauntlet area was one of the most fun I had in any FF that is not an MMO. It was ultra challenging in terms of strategy and difficulty of execution. Also all the cieth quests were quite fun to complete especially the A-S ranks. But yeah the ending was SUPER rough to go through and I wonder if it looks rough like that because they had already planned the game to be a trilogy, I wonder.
Chat was rabid during this session. Mike seemed to miss out on parts of the context of what Barty's plan was and why the gang went to cocoon regardless of it being what they were 'supposed to do. I think over all there was a failure in messaging from the game about what its core themes were. FF13 ultimately is a story about how to fight against the inevitable fate that lay before you, it's about choosing to do something rather than being made to do something, and about how you control your own destiny with those choices and have the potential to turn something into a good thing or a bad thing (Ragnarok) but yeah its delivery was very thin and some of the direction choices didn't help it (also a condemnation of organized religion but what final fantasy isn't?)
also for those lost on why the gang turned into 'failstates' but were able to turn back. Barty has the power to fail someone at their focus activating their brand from that state it's impossible to return unless, someone gives you a new brand, or you give yourself one. The whole thing about being a failstate is it's supposed to represent someone who gave into hopelessness, so finding a new purpose revives them into creatures capable of agency. Again, poorly communicated by the game.
@@nobodyspecial690 There is no information available that the goddess Etro literally intervened to save them herself. They just described the sensation of being rescued.
the official piggyback guide just says to equipped as many cherub crown's as you can to avoid dieing to the insta death atk. official guide doesn't even know how to avoid the death mechanic so it just says throw money at it.
cherub crown is the accessory that gives death resist.
I also wiped 20 times before looking it up in a Guide Book to find out he was casting Death on me. Then stuck on a Safety Bit. Hated the fight. 😅
FF13-2 is absolutely worth it for the music & the memes. Combat / Gameplay is much improved too
One thing Mike needs to consider: This game wasn't that bad FOR HIM because he had his chat to interact with along the way. Imagine being alone in your living room, following the corridor, switching paradigms from time to time, with no one to share your pain and/or boredom with... Yes, this game deserves all the hate it gets.
We get it , you’re lonely
Debuff success rate goes up with a higher chain gauge as well as more sabs in a paradigm. I've also never personally seen him cast his death skill in any of my own playthroughs, I always killed him before he starts using it, even without poison cheese, didn't know about that
I put on Safety Bit (resist death chance) on my main character and hoped that would be enough. Anyone else dying would've been okay.
It was a good fight outside of that. I don't like instant death that's unclear when your main character dying is an instant game over. It's bullshit.
Are there reviews for the earlier games Preach played. I was looking for the reviews of 1-10 pretty much.
I can tell you what the solution is...the game expects you to spend some time grinding in Gran Pulse, when you first get there and again when it unlocks at the end, otherwise you can really struggle😅
I grinded out the endgame and as a result the final boss died expectedly quick😅
PS: I personally enjoyed XIII-2 more than XIII, but still skipped Lightning Returns as literally everyone said its trash 😂
I kinda hope you take a chance on the Nintendo exclusive Xenoblade series. The original is somewhat dated combat but incredible story. Two gets a bit whacky in the anime trope department but much better combat and then the most recent release is such a good wrap up especially with the DLC closer
what a journey Mike is one 1 moe left from base games
24:16 I don't think you used it during your playthrough but you can also speed up 10 in the remastered PC version, though it's not really promoted in game and doesn't exist in the other versions for some reason. I definitely agree about the sphere grid, wish they'd iterate on it more.
Im curious if he'll ever try the Dissidia games at some point, especially 012
I think ff13 was small. And when I played it I was still smaller and didn't think really deep about it :D
But I stopped because the endboss was just kinda... unbeatable and just frustrating...
I played this and the next game with a book guide that I bought along with the game, leveled at least 2-3 paragon to max lvl, I don't remember what EXACTLY the book tell me to do but it was pretty much a DPS race for the last boss to avoid the mechanics. Had an ok time with the game, grindy as all hell and never finished the super boss or touched it again after finishing it once lol
It's no surprise to me that Mike was a fan of Sazh as he's the only functional adult in the cast. But saying that Lightning was second was quite the take. You definitely get temper tantrums and "Worst birthday ever"s beaten out of you in military training. By my count, Lightning is the second least mature member of the cast behind Snow whose hero complex is a menace to society and is actively encouraged rather than resolved.
The whole "I Hate Liars" bit that went on through these TDPs is also a bit gross. You want very clear transparency in communication with co-workers, it's a very Mythic Raider trait to have, but as much as you try to see a game about adolescents coming to terms with life's struggles, you're going to miss the point. There's a good reason there's a lot of "you can't handle the truth" in literature and media throughout the ages, a lie made in compassion can often be far better for a relationship than a truth told with the intent to wound.
And let's not lie with the whole "my 8 year old is more mature". Your 8 year old isn't branded with a death curse and forced to fight giant death monsters or turn into a ghoul. Hope's character is painfully awkward, uncertain, confused, and generally not actually hopeful at all, because TEENAGERS ARE LIKE THAT. Pretending you weren't, that's the real cringe thing.
It's not a suspension of disbelief issue, it's a lack of empathy issue. Of course Vanille believes in the potential of miracles, they're living in a world where magic is certainly very real, she's lived through an apocalypse that happened generations ago and the magic and power they're given is sufficient to destroy gods and shape worlds. The only thing they're uncertain of is the potential of their power, and that's the whole point of the journey. There's no questioning whether or not fighting Orphan is the correct thing to do because it's not a question of morality or logicstics, it's a rejection of their reality being "born in a Fal'cie's world, forced to live as a Fal'cie's slave". Their conviction wins over the support of the Cavalry and Snow's motley crew of idiots who make the moves to save the populous by flying down to Pulse in spite of the propaganda leveled against them by the government/church (the Power). The heroes don't always get things right, but the core of FF narratives is a call to action in the face of uncertainty and doubt, the belief that things can be made better. I find it very unusual for someone to have played near all of the mainline FF games to not "get it" to such a severe degree.
It's simple. He spent his entire life including his childhood trying to fit in. A conformist has a harder time empathizing with non-conformists. The same is true in reverse. People like me genuinely do not understand the desire to fit in to and/or appease a system that does not meet with our approval. Logistics or morality be damned. Why serve anyone unless they are deserving of your fealty? Why show mercy to that which wants to enslave you? Why wouldn't you go to Cocoon and risk it for the biscuit? Isn't liberty worth that cost? Preach does not have answers to these questions, because it would require him partake in a bit of self-reflection and/or introspection thus triggering an existential crisis that he does not want or really need to have. It's only a game, after all.
I think a lot of the lightning hate at the time was them trying to make her the face of final fantasy.
And talking her up while talking characters like Yuna down.
Hope he does these FF story summaries/reactions for FF11 expansions. CoP in particular!
I remember two shotting Orphan. I have no clue how I did it, I just remember dying I think to death once and getting mad about it though making it through on my next attempt and finding it easy. I got stuck on an earlier Barthandelus fight (believe it was the second one) that was where I got walled for a while. Pretty sure I was just getting stupidly lucky and/or had some strat I forgot about that happened to be perfect against the boss.
I one shot Orphan, so I guess I just got lucky because I didn't remember that instant death mechanic at all.
Hahaha this ending man 😂 it was crazy even when I first played it
wait what that's how the death works? I assumed you just had to get lucky and it some sort of enrage mech. I did abuse the shit out of poison though when I did it cause it felt like it was the "intended strat"
I guess im the only one who did wait all those years for 13 and ended up really liking it, but I really hated ff12(I've warmed up to it after revisiting it recently, half main cast still boring and lame though and the combat is still feels like watching paint dry) so I guess I was already burned.
I'd love to see you cover tactics! cheers mike!
Thank God it's over
I am curious about how the Japanese reception are to the game because this was the first time where I played a FF game where I was stuck in disbelief at how a FF game can possibly sucked
I am SO GLAD you like it even if you think its mediocre. Its rare to see people like you who rate 13 a middling ground. Its either love or hate with this game. Yes, the ending is a bit "what....?" but when you go to 13-2, that would turn into "what.... the EFF is this bullshit?" The story may or may not get more convoluted in 13-2 because of its base premise, that is entirely up to you but seeing as you're the kind of gamer who delve into the nitty gritty details, you would figure it out very fast.
I do think that 13's combat is pretty flawed though. When you go into 13-2, you will realize a lot of bad things about it. The second game takes the system, smoothen it, remove unneeded parts and then streamline everything as well as add a TON of combination. But that is neither here nor there. I really hope I get to see this style of video from you for other games.
Anyways, again great video series and I love how you present your opinions. Keep up the great work.
Never knew it but never use Lightning as a medic or sentinel either on this fight... Guess as lucky (and a big grinder when I was young).
I played this but did not remember the story at all, makes your wonder if this is why 16 was so dark.
Yup, 100% never ran into the death. Played syn and sab would even run double sab or syn just for extra fast casting. I could be remembering wrong though, im sure it claimed a run or 2 without my notice. 😅
Wait.... he's going to do Tactics? HEEEELL YEEAAAHHHHHH
When Mike talks about speeding up combat for the trash enemies part, i'm fairly certain the OG versions of the games never had a speed up function and it was added for the remastered/definitive versions of them. Also Sentinel is a pretty useless role aside from 1-2 of the hardest side quests and then it's mainly used for triple sentinel to tank something heavy, once you have your full party and unlocked crystarium, 90% of the time you'll just run relentless Assault and swapping into Diversity for some quick heals before you go Relentless again.
whoa, hold on, Mike is planning on playing FFT!?!?!? Which version!? OMG!
I was horrifically overtuned for the last few fights. Literally 5 star breezes through cause I went back to Pulse and grinded my ass off on my first playthrough
Jesus :D
looking bad at my playthrough in 2014 and i honestly membered that the last boss was kinda a letdown and too easy. IDK maybe i was lucky as fuck :D
BUT the gauntlet before the boss was sooooo hard for me.
Man, I forgot how bad that final boss fight was. I don't even know how I managed to complete it back in 2009 as a little man child. But yeah, I enjoyed watching the vods.
I love this man
XD hes gonna laugh when he finds out there is a 3rd entry
I always find it fascinating that people actually like this game. It is so poorly written and contrived that it genuinely makes me want to vomit. The ending is the most saccharin shit I have ever seen. I genuinely wanted them to fail because how they handled the characters failing their focus meant nothing. So fucking stupid.
I'm with you, I don't get why people like this game. After 20 hours I was ready for it to be over because of how boring it was. When I got to Pulse I was filled with despair - "aw fuck, there's more!?"
The battle system is the only good thing about the game, but not 60-80 hours good. It doesn't make up for everything else. The battle system could have been even better without Stagger. The entire Stagger system brings what's good about the combat system down, and is the worst part of every FF game that has it.
@@garitobee7541It's easily one of the worst written stories I have ever heard. And that's excusing the fact that a good 90% of it is hidden behind a datalog. A child would be telling them killing Orphan is bad. That's how dumb it is.
I always find it funny when people see 2 women talk to each other and just assume they must be lesbians
Everything you said here was valid and fair and so true.
The FF13 story is so sloppy and poorly written that they needed to add 500 datalogs of exposition...and it still makes no sense
I still can't believe that the Orphan 1 fight almost took him 2 hours. Probably one of the longest fight that Mike have to do for a final boss.
Don't think anyone can defend that insta-death mechanic on the party leader. Even if it's only a 50/50 chance, basically praying that it doesn't proc against the party leader is inexcusable. The boss was basically spamming it during their last 10%
23:20 Agreed. Mid-tier is probably the best description for this FF. Combat, music and graphics are okay. Crafting, post-game grind and things like the team leader party wipe are bad.
If there's any takeaway from this, is that most the FFXIII team manage to work on the current FFVII remake and with a good enough writer and scenario designer, make a "modern" FF with a good story.
I guess FFV is the last left. From the vod his team posted so far he seems to be really enjoying it. Let's just hope the continues enjoying it to the very end.
The only, and I'm not going to call it a defense really, but the explanation is that, FF13 is not the only game with this mechanic. Persona 3 and I believe 4 have insta-death mechanics baked in, even if you can defend it a bit. Like a Dragon, which came out nearly 10 years later, also has an insta-death mechanic on the final boss where you can technically defend it, but it's a pain in the ass to do so. It's significantly less painful in FF13 where, you get to just restart from the boss, compared to other games where you'd have to redo the entire dungeon if this happened.
The Hope slander continues
"FFX's sphere grid is phenomenally good"
Well that's not a sentence I was expecting to hear today.
but it's correct no?
He is right though, sphere gris is fire and a lot of ff after went way backwards on upgrade/magic systems.
Sphere grid is good but also uninviting to most people. I fully understand why Preach enjoyed the Sphere grid the most, it's just not my cup of tea, but even if I don't enjoy it I understand why it's so great and looked upon so fondly
Granted, FF10 was one of my first RPG's so I understand why I don't enjoy the sphere grid to this day. Bad vibes when I was pre 12 and wasn't fluent in English so that certainly didn't help
@@zugetzuzu is extremely uninviting and very overwhelming, but it has depth (a lot of depth) that other upgrade systems on FF don’t have (12 was a step back, but not so bad, but XIII was miles behind the sphere grid).
And same I was not an english speaker and at the time and I was also a teenager for the sphere grid (when X was released), it was confusing but I could clearly see the ways it could go and it was almost an infinite upgrade system in a way (at least until you filled every single node of the sphere grid).
Even Path of exile has showed that the sphere grid can be even successful outside of a turn based game.
The first thing I try to equipp on my characters in any JRPG or crpg is a way to neagte death effects. NOthing more annoying than that.
As confused as I am how he enjoyed coach simulator: final fantasy edition, I was waiting for him to realize the story collapses in on itself. The entire game everyone drones on about defying their fate and they don't want to mass genocide humanity and fuck barty and iM nO oNeS sLaVe, then proceed to do exactly what the antagonist wants causing the mass genocide of humanity. It feels like the writers kept writing themselves into a corner to the point that in several sections they even have the characters flat out say "ya this looks like a great place to grind and waste a few more hours to pad out the game", then by the ending everyone's sitting around the table going "fuck, uhh... shit uh crystals" and pulled a deus ex machina crystal pillar out of their asses so they could ship the game that year.
I get differing tastes, I genuinely don't understand how this is anyone's favorite final fantasy.
I get why people like the combat, I don't get how anyone likes the story. The first half is horrible, painful, melodrama then for the climax it shoots its own premise in the foot by having them do exactly what the villain wants. It's just so bad.
They actually go "We won't do what you want by killing you, we'll kill you instead!"
@psoffxifan4904 lol I can explain the first part, he liked it bcz he felt like he was raid leading in WoW again, same reason he liked 12's he got to plan out strategies for his team to do and give play by play commands to coach them. Mind ya I agree with the rest of what ya said.
@@khinzaw77 The entire fal'cie plan is baffling. Firstly them turning humans into l'cie. They're so far beyond human comprehension the only part humans can understand is this hazy image in their head as to their focus, which alright I suppose. They can fucking talk, barty proves that definitively and even if they can't physically talk then why flood their brains to such an extent that they only comprehend a fraction of the focus. If they're this desperate for l'cie to fulfill their focus then why in gods name are you not flat out telling them in detail.
Second, what was the end goal for summoning the maker. They want to bring the maker back to their world, but never give a good enough explanation as to why. You're all dead so whatever conversation you want to have with the maker will be pretty brief, and honestly if the maker created all sentient life and you just got done with murdering all sentient life then I'd imagine the maker might not be too happy with you. Plus the only thing I could find (even in the datalogs) as to why the fal'cie would even think this plan MIGHT work is from a book that was written by a human. So did these supreme beings read this passage and go "hey this human is kind of making sense, let's eradicate all life"
I know you love the combat and think it's the best in the series. Personally, it is by far the worst. I talked about it a bit in a previous video, but FFXIII's combat makes me feel a complete lack of control. Yes, I do have control with Paradigm Shifts and such. But that is such macro level control with no micro control of the combat, and that makes me feel like I'm simply not doing anything. Even if objectively I am doing something, it doesn't feel like it to me.
Combined with simply not liking any of the characters besides Sazh (I did like Fang, but I also never finished the game previously, and seeing the ending through your stream has lead me to know I don't like her in the end either), which made me not feel invested to care about the story, and you have an incredibly low experience for me
You really didn't spend any time trying to debuff the boss. For the death mechanic, I won't defend it - it is horrendous. However, it is mitigatable with an easily-obtained item; you can buy death-resist accessories from the store. I'm pretty sure you also get one from a chest at the start of the final chapter. For ragnarok, Fang's ragnarok was weak because she wasn't really trying. That's why Orphan started torturing her.
I'll make it simple to understand why 13 gets the hate if you don't yet, imagine a crypto enthusiast came up to you to talk about a conflict within the industry with all the lingo and jargon about layers, blockchain, fungible coin, airdrop, ledger access etc etc. You'd check out after the first sentence, just like FF13's story approach... and then the crypto enthusiast says "here is a lexicon on the context, you'll love what i'm telling you after you read this" let's be honest, you'd toss that out of the window right away and just leave. Is that definitive enough for the common connotations for FF13?
the writing of this game is truly whack
Speaking as one of the people who platinumed this game on PS3, If Preach is going to play XIII-2 and Lightning's Return at some point, I hope someone fills him in on the extra lore stuff he's missing. According to my recollection, all the ground work for the Goddess (Etro) is revealed through datalog and maybe a few high level hunts, and it does so much to explain what actually happened at the end and helps you realize the goddess was the one that actually intervened to turn the party back from being Cie'th.
I think the thing that makes this story so hard to accept in the details is that essentially the in-game narrative lies to you because it's based on the understanding of the characters, there is no omniscient or limited omniscient knowledge (except arguably the datalog). So it seems like this game's story ignores its own rules, but the truth is actually closer to "the characters explaining the rules don't understand the rules".
I love 13, but the first two and last two chapters are definitely the weakest parts.
I think instant death in games is an antiquated ability and doesn't really have a place anymore. When bosses have instant death, it's an annoying nuisance to play against. When players have it, it's incredibly overpowered unless the success rate is super-low (isn't Vanille's base chance 1% to land?), in which case it either becomes never worth using or remains overpowered but you have to keep trying until you win the lottery. Whenever instant-KO is an option, it overshadows all other alternatives and that undercuts the other game systems, so I think games are better without it.
it was in (i think) every game of FF if i think about tomberry for example. and you had to prepare for it in advance. like put on an accessory or smth. but i get what you mean. also blows my mind that theres no item against insta death in this game... ff13 is the only FF i didnt finish and i tryd several times.. you can really tell that they didnt really knew where to go with that number title.. i remember them saying it almost felt like an existential crisis. god bless they found their path with ff15 which was way better compared to 13
@@lllOnSlAuGhTlll there literally is an item to lower death chance and I can't even begin to take you seriously when saying that 15 is better than this game. That is the stupidest and most hilariously bad opinion.
@@MetalMaidenDeth when you say lower death chance means theres still a chance. theres usually items in the game that makes you immune to insta death.
and well thats your opinion then. i can live with that
I think there's an unbridgeable divide here with many of us being longstanding FF fans and, at release, crashing against a stark decline in the game's quality and you coming to the game from the perspective of someone trying them all like they're sampling candy.
It's a lot easier to give leniency when you're starting on the other side of the line.
Daily Preach? isn't it Pacifist Gaming :P
Lol and now he knows why everyone drags FF13 for the story and writing. It was actually baffling.
the lighting hate comes from the fact that 13 is a trilogy and people were tired with the cast from the first game
Mike doesn't read these, but to address his statement that he doesn't get why the game gets the hate it does is that for a lot of us, myself included, came off of the highs of 9, 10, and 12. FF13 was Square's first foray into HD gaming and it shows. There's a lot of content you'd expect out of a FF game that just was either cut or reduced in scope. It was also the first time we had to wait for a new entry to come out that took as long as that did so the hype was kind of crazy.
As a stand-alone game, I wouldn't have been as critical. This applies to FF15 as well and 14 back when I played it during 1.0, and good god, it was awful. I still see people try to defend 1.0 saying it's better than the live content. Insanity
One of the more absurd statements from square enix (which itself is an achievement) was around the time of FF13, when they claimed that it's "impossible" to make RPG towns in "HD", meanwhile everyone else from Tales of Vesperia to Dragon Age Origins was doing it just fine