I've improved the google sheet shown in this video to be functional for you to use. Enter in your champion's build, their set bonus your cruelty total and any buffs and effects and then you can compare your builds to see if helmsmasher is truly better You can find the link to this sheet here: tinyurl.com/mrxdwc32
Is this going to help someone like Husk? I have a 6 star blessing for him but doesn't look like there is a way to set up enemy max HP multipliers in the calculator?
out of pure curiosity, does the raid engine use 2.718 or the true value for the damage reduction formula? I've built my own calc following your stream but with the exp() formula, and I get between 6 to 20 diff compared to your values (just to find the exact same value from the +-10%). Thanks anyway for the pure excel bless
@@robertram945The odds aren’t rigged, content creators just spend a lot more money than the avarage player (people have datamined the algorithms behind shards).
So funny because I just changed my Michiniki build last week to almost the exact same and definitely seeing better results! Thanks for the confirmation Saph!
My Michinaki is in affinity breaker and I love him. Archer once she is built will join him in the affinity breaker supremacy. There is no greater feeling like when poison cloud tries to ruin your day and you just attack the head with your support, michi joins in and puts burn on the mf.
Overall he's still better in Lethal if your team brings block buffs and you have Ignore Armour in your Hydra Greathall. Mine A1s for 1.2M against decap Brutal heads
You might be right. It would be very hard to calculate the difference. Especially when the affinity changes between rotations. It is hard to quantify how much you gain by not missing his debuffs on a weak hit against affinities you are weak to, and the damage of the crit hit itself. But it is way smoother on auto with breaker and It might allow you to go without block buffs to bring another DPS instead, but that needs manualing in that case.@@jvhud
Yes I got harima set up like this and was thinking about set up all my champions with this set up because she was hitting for over 800k plus every time and her hits kept making more damage as the fight went loner and longer thanks good vibes and good video
My NM hydra record is 470 mil. with Venus (cursed set), Cupi (6* crushing rend), Turvold, Krisk, Cardiel and Tuhanarak. Both Cupi and Turvold run helmsmaher and the difference between if it procs or not is about 50 %. Turvold does like 1 mil. on decapitated head per hit and 1.5 with helmsmaher proc. Cupidus bigges dmg was more than 2.2 mil wih his A3 on decapitated head.
Love all the work you're putting into the maths! I personally HATE Hydra, and have mostly given up trying to optimize. Just don't WANNA! So I appreciate the analysis! TY!
yes, I was already using this strategy in hydra. no, it wasn't a secret... but! every time I talked about it, I got tomatoes thrown at me🤜🤪. Thank you Saph, Your the best!
To point something out, thoses hydra bonus stats add so much more damage to your hgdra team. I had our clan member copy exactly my team . only differences is the hydra bonus . i was one shoting heads and he could not he had to put two trundas in his team to make up for it. but still my trunda team does full 3x the damage than his.
love the video and raises lots of thoughts about how to maximize some other builds. Question: On 9 piece rathalos does the final set bonus of repeat damage work on warmaster? How about helmsmasher?
I got lucky with 9 piece rathalos set on royal guard. I get 2x - 6x damage depending who I hit because it doesn't count repeat damage as enemy max hp hit. Normal hit on hard spider gets me ~1m. Repeat damage hit gets me ~6m total
Max turn is 1500 so using relentless in a nuker will make him take more turns than the supports and thus dealing more damage, also lowering the supports speed will also give us more damage
What about with Shameal? Where he ignores a huge percentage of defence (if not all) with his A2. I have 6* crushing rend on him already so theres ~30% already too. Should I stick with GS for his counterattacks or switch?
I mofed ma'shalled in hellsmasher and my damage improved a lot. Asap I get 6 star crushing rent then will be absurd damage. Was thinking to move also ratalos in hellsmasher, he is in merciless and full ignore def in area bonus
Hi ✌, thanks for your videos, they help a lot. I would like to ask you to check, if you can, what is the principle of forming tournament groups in a raid. Now there are rumors that the later you enter the game, the greater the chance of getting weak (inactive) players. I wonder how this is written in the game code and whether it is spelled out at all. Perhaps this topic has already been discussed, but I didn’t really follow it.
I love that you made this, I hate warmaster on any champion. Helmsmasher or giant slayer work much better. I use giant slayer on all my aoe Champs for any wave content or hydra. If they hit more than 1 target, the giant slayer has a chance to proc on all of them just like helm smasher. And ignore Def champions really benefit from that extra crit damage *cough cough* rathalos. Love your work keep it up :)
Warmaster can hit every champ. The only difference between it and giant slayer is how many times you're hitting an individual target... not how MANY targets. Rule of thumb is anyone who hits 3+ times on a target should be in giantslayer because the math works out to be a higher damage over time than warmaster because of volume of proc chances.
@Evankelly11 I've never seen a warmaster hit 4 hydra heads at the same time, same with Spider. warmaster procs 1 time per skill use, not on each hit, whereas a giant slayer proc can happen 4 times from the same single hit. it's just rng.
So on Shamael I am curious why helmsmasher would be better than the extra 20% crit damage if he is already ignoring 100% def. Why is true damage better? Why is more than 100% ignore def better? Thanks!!
I ask bc I push 330 M dmg on NM hydra with no reviver. Sham hits hard but Im obviously wondering if I switch him into helmsmasher for his a2 if he will do more than having an extra 20% crit. I have 18% ignore def in my area bonus for hydra and I run 1 piece cruel. @@HHGamingNetwork
Just wondering - does Helmsmasher apply for AoEs/ multiple hits? That's been my assumption and if that's the case I think helmsmasher plus Savage/Lethal is probably always better against Hydra (maybe even without the gear).
@HHGamingNetwork is it worth moving whisper out of relentless and into ignore defense sets? The extra turns seem huge, but not sure how it pencils out.
Ignore defense works on all abilities that hit for all champions... but building ignore defense of max hp nukers isn't recommended because of bosses' passive damage cap. You can relatively easily hit for max damage on gnuts a3 with just enough crit damage alone, ignore defense isnt needed.
Any champ that is a dmg dealer and has even the tiniest potential in arena, despite his value in pve, i build with helmsmasher. My zinogre smacks hard with that and the five star blessing with cruelty.
The op mommy archer basically tripled my hydra damage on hard. Truly one of the broken moments of all time. I also run her in my iron twins stage 12 rn and Doom tower. I personally think your rating off her is too low on dark fae. I think she is one of the best dark fae champ in this game.
do you think brimston is still good on mercharki if i use him for damage or put somthing else i have two of them at 4 star but one is not booked or built?
The easiest way to see this is with 6star crushing rend and helmsmasher on multi hit champs. When the true damage hits…you see it. Fenax’s differentials are ridiculous
oh man, i got helmsmasher on my michinaki and got 2* crushing rend.. couple hours ago, i pulled a 6* Blessing for michinaki xD.. i can't wait to try it out..
So here's my thoughts, helmsmasher should be used for those champion who has arena nuke potential. I used to use Rotos on hydra normal and he always put up a great damage. Of course AOE damage dealers out damage him, but I'm pretty sure Rotos is better in help smasher. Also the same case for harima whom I use in hydra hard and her damage is insane especially on decapitated heads. So basically, use your nuked on helmsmasher if you desire, but on general champion, I think warmaster is better
I showed up 13s after video drops. My upvote gets counteracted down to "0" the moment I hit it. Saph, you got some speedy haters showing up within 15secs. You must be doing something right 😉
@@HHGamingNetwork I have more important things to do than write an essay. You must be fully aware that I cannot point out you mistakes in a few paragraphs, I had to pause to take in some of your method, but there are other masteries, actions and equipment that supersede you comparison between the two attack masteries you are highlighting, that actually make it completely fail. Who am I though to dare disagree with a content creator, the Gods of modern day society. Just by your response, instead of politely asking why I might disagree, it's again modern day passive aggressive attitude that symbolizes "how dare you disagree with me", I'm a creator for H.H gaming". Enjoy your pedestal mate and I look forward to the apology that will never arrive, when you realise the mistakes you have made.
@@HHGamingNetwork Apologies, but also I failed to mention the amount you take on assumption, almost comical for a theoretical principle to be based on so much of the unknown, especially when fractions are involved. Unfortunately I don't possess a God brain, gifted by the UA-cam deities. So ultimately I should bow to your obviously superior intellect.
@marcusroberts7624 I think if you look at your first message you'll realise that when reading online without having knowledge of your stream of thoughts - it comes across very much like "you're wrong" with no answer. So if you imagine me spending hours building this out testing and then recording for a comment to be just "you're wrong" then you can see why my first reaction is - "thanks for that". I never profess to be the arbiter of all things raid and I welcome feedback and critiques - i've made math errors in the past - had you provided me context then you will have gotten a fairer response from me. You didnt put your first comment as "I have some concerns - i'll reach out to you" or "i need to formulate feedback because there's some issues i'll add to this comment". I get hundreds of comments so its impossible for me to know you're still formulating a response. I would welcome your thoughts as to the issues and what i've overlooked however because you've briefly mentioned combination of other masteries and actions but still not given me specifics to look into. Not quite an apology that you would like but a reasoning to my initial response and an invitation for further feedback is welcomed!
I've improved the google sheet shown in this video to be functional for you to use. Enter in your champion's build, their set bonus your cruelty total and any buffs and effects and then you can compare your builds to see if helmsmasher is truly better
You can find the link to this sheet here: tinyurl.com/mrxdwc32
the link doesnt work yo
It does - just tested!
Is this going to help someone like Husk? I have a 6 star blessing for him but doesn't look like there is a way to set up enemy max HP multipliers in the calculator?
@@HHGamingNetwork weird it still doesn't for me, says site can't be reached wrong url. i guess i can't use the calculator then :)
out of pure curiosity, does the raid engine use 2.718 or the true value for the damage reduction formula? I've built my own calc following your stream but with the exp() formula, and I get between 6 to 20 diff compared to your values (just to find the exact same value from the +-10%). Thanks anyway for the pure excel bless
SAPH U SHOULD MAKE A VIDEO CLICKING EACH OF UR CHAMPS AND HOW THEY'RE GEARED. HIGHLIGHTING PRIORITY STATS & MOVES FOR EACH IN A QUICK MANNER.
Why are you yelling 😂
Seeing the archer again makes me cry a bit now I know I'll never get her lol.
I spent above $2k chasing her and never got her….i feel your pain
She joins the ninja doesn't exist group
@@vinceszurko8651sorry bro I got her in a prism shard and I’m f2p💀
All the content creators got her, I guess all of them are 'Lucky', what are the odds of that ? It is a big 0 unless they odds are rigged.
@@robertram945The odds aren’t rigged, content creators just spend a lot more money than the avarage player (people have datamined the algorithms behind shards).
very cool and a nice longer term goal to aim for.
Glad to see Alatreon in the team; still raising him and trying to find a good setup for him.
I was about to aak this question, thanks for the analysis
Oh Shit Yasser playing Raid too?!
@@folon12 😂😂
So funny because I just changed my Michiniki build last week to almost the exact same and definitely seeing better results! Thanks for the confirmation Saph!
Holy hell! This is just about as beautiful as it can get. Brilliant as always!!
My Michinaki is in affinity breaker and I love him. Archer once she is built will join him in the affinity breaker supremacy. There is no greater feeling like when poison cloud tries to ruin your day and you just attack the head with your support, michi joins in and puts burn on the mf.
Wait what? Didn't know that set works on the poison cloud
Overall he's still better in Lethal if your team brings block buffs and you have Ignore Armour in your Hydra Greathall. Mine A1s for 1.2M against decap Brutal heads
@@Hammer701 does exactly what it says, changes a weak hit (poison cloud effect) to a crit.
You might be right. It would be very hard to calculate the difference. Especially when the affinity changes between rotations. It is hard to quantify how much you gain by not missing his debuffs on a weak hit against affinities you are weak to, and the damage of the crit hit itself. But it is way smoother on auto with breaker and It might allow you to go without block buffs to bring another DPS instead, but that needs manualing in that case.@@jvhud
@@pasto_sk Agree, there's a coming rotation that has a whole bunch of force affinity heads that is going to be rough as.
Saph your knowledge and analytical skill is just so impressive. Thanks for putting in all of this work.
Yes I got harima set up like this and was thinking about set up all my champions with this set up because she was hitting for over 800k plus every time and her hits kept making more damage as the fight went loner and longer thanks good vibes and good video
My NM hydra record is 470 mil. with Venus (cursed set), Cupi (6* crushing rend), Turvold, Krisk, Cardiel and Tuhanarak. Both Cupi and Turvold run helmsmaher and the difference between if it procs or not is about 50 %. Turvold does like 1 mil. on decapitated head per hit and 1.5 with helmsmaher proc. Cupidus bigges dmg was more than 2.2 mil wih his A3 on decapitated head.
Love all the work you're putting into the maths! I personally HATE Hydra, and have mostly given up trying to optimize. Just don't WANNA! So I appreciate the analysis! TY!
yes, I was already using this strategy in hydra. no, it wasn't a secret... but! every time I talked about it, I got tomatoes thrown at me🤜🤪. Thank you Saph, Your the best!
Just a note, Saph building for damage a1 michi. Relentless is still good (also damage wise) if rely more on his debuffs.
Correct, that’s why I still like him in relentless, especially to apply hex/dec def to decapitated heads
Yeah its only his dec atk i care for as i have a cursed lydia so covers 99% his a3 and a2 is situational utility.
To point something out, thoses hydra bonus stats add so much more damage to your hgdra team. I had our clan member copy exactly my team . only differences is the hydra bonus . i was one shoting heads and he could not he had to put two trundas in his team to make up for it. but still my trunda team does full 3x the damage than his.
love it when you get down and nerdy
can you do the math between using relentless and the new rathalos gear in hydra
You can use the calculator - it has rathalos gear in there.
love the video and raises lots of thoughts about how to maximize some other builds.
Question: On 9 piece rathalos does the final set bonus of repeat damage work on warmaster? How about helmsmasher?
I got lucky with 9 piece rathalos set on royal guard. I get 2x - 6x damage depending who I hit because it doesn't count repeat damage as enemy max hp hit. Normal hit on hard spider gets me ~1m. Repeat damage hit gets me ~6m total
My initial tests are no - masteries dont impact that - i'll do a full video on that set shortly.
@dustinfarnsworth4281 I have 9 piece on Graazur...
wish you did calc with 20% arena ignore def since that's what everyone has or would work towards
Just manually enter it into the "Bonus Ignore Defence" box.
Max turn is 1500 so using relentless in a nuker will make him take more turns than the supports and thus dealing more damage, also lowering the supports speed will also give us more damage
Did you include defense buff on the excel sheet
Not sure if I missed it, but are these numbers just against Hydra or does the increased damage work in other areas like CB?
Yes although note that a lower defence reduces the value of this. Its good for most of Sintranos and end game content and hard mode dungeons.
What about with Shameal? Where he ignores a huge percentage of defence (if not all) with his A2. I have 6* crushing rend on him already so theres ~30% already too. Should I stick with GS for his counterattacks or switch?
I mofed ma'shalled in hellsmasher and my damage improved a lot. Asap I get 6 star crushing rent then will be absurd damage. Was thinking to move also ratalos in hellsmasher, he is in merciless and full ignore def in area bonus
Yep 2024 meta this will be!
@@HHGamingNetwork 9 pieces merciless will be soo strong combined with the 6* crushing rent and helmsmasher.
I'm trying to use this for my Razelvarg build, but not sure how to enter his multipliers since it's based on attack and speed?
Hi ✌, thanks for your videos, they help a lot. I would like to ask you to check, if you can, what is the principle of forming tournament groups in a raid. Now there are rumors that the later you enter the game, the greater the chance of getting weak (inactive) players. I wonder how this is written in the game code and whether it is spelled out at all. Perhaps this topic has already been discussed, but I didn’t really follow it.
Random at rank 100 as far as i know (based on when you login to the game)
just wondering if you are including the 60% vs 50% chance of reduction/dmg or applying 50% to every potential atk.
Is this valid just for hydra? For example royal guard will be better with helmsmasher instead warmaster for hydra/spider content?
Saph, can I get your thoughts on Rathalos with Helmsmasher in Savage and Retailiation?
Helmsmasher only if you use his A3 and have him in an Ignore Defense Set otherwise consider warmaster.
@@HHGamingNetwork thanks for the advice!!!!
I love that you made this, I hate warmaster on any champion. Helmsmasher or giant slayer work much better. I use giant slayer on all my aoe Champs for any wave content or hydra. If they hit more than 1 target, the giant slayer has a chance to proc on all of them just like helm smasher. And ignore Def champions really benefit from that extra crit damage *cough cough* rathalos. Love your work keep it up :)
Warmaster proc can happen separately for each champ warmaster is only better for multi hit aoes
Warmaster can hit every champ. The only difference between it and giant slayer is how many times you're hitting an individual target... not how MANY targets. Rule of thumb is anyone who hits 3+ times on a target should be in giantslayer because the math works out to be a higher damage over time than warmaster because of volume of proc chances.
@Evankelly11 I've never seen a warmaster hit 4 hydra heads at the same time, same with Spider. warmaster procs 1 time per skill use, not on each hit, whereas a giant slayer proc can happen 4 times from the same single hit. it's just rng.
Put it on deliana, give her a counterattack, and watch it happen yourself, lol
Warmaster is indeed per target
So on Shamael I am curious why helmsmasher would be better than the extra 20% crit damage if he is already ignoring 100% def. Why is true damage better? Why is more than 100% ignore def better? Thanks!!
A1 on decapitated heads is a hell of a lot of damage!
True but as far as the a2 goes it was mentioned that Helmsmasher is even good for that even if your ignore def is already at 100%.
@@HHGamingNetwork
I ask bc I push 330 M dmg on NM hydra with no reviver. Sham hits hard but Im obviously wondering if I switch him into helmsmasher for his a2 if he will do more than having an extra 20% crit. I have 18% ignore def in my area bonus for hydra and I run 1 piece cruel.
@@HHGamingNetwork
Just wondering - does Helmsmasher apply for AoEs/ multiple hits? That's been my assumption and if that's the case I think helmsmasher plus Savage/Lethal is probably always better against Hydra (maybe even without the gear).
it calculates per hit on each enemy individually.
Does that really make it worth missing out on the extra turns?
Yes!
Can you try this on Jetni ?
Saph how about whisper? Would you put helmsmasher on her or it wouldnt matter cause she ignores def ?
Yes her A3 and A1 are actually better damage skills when you dont factor defence. Both my whispers are in helmsmasher.
@@HHGamingNetwork thanks mate going to make the switch
@HHGamingNetwork is it worth moving whisper out of relentless and into ignore defense sets? The extra turns seem huge, but not sure how it pencils out.
@@jkuykendoll I think he made a video on this awhile back. Actually think it's about the same I can't remember
I had a question, the ignore def stuff will work on Acrizia or Gnut A3?
Ignore defense works on all abilities that hit for all champions... but building ignore defense of max hp nukers isn't recommended because of bosses' passive damage cap. You can relatively easily hit for max damage on gnuts a3 with just enough crit damage alone, ignore defense isnt needed.
Any champ that is a dmg dealer and has even the tiniest potential in arena, despite his value in pve, i build with helmsmasher. My zinogre smacks hard with that and the five star blessing with cruelty.
The op mommy archer basically tripled my hydra damage on hard. Truly one of the broken moments of all time. I also run her in my iron twins stage 12 rn and Doom tower. I personally think your rating off her is too low on dark fae. I think she is one of the best dark fae champ in this game.
Is the optimizer analyzing the damage the same way?
yeah - it considers these factors although it wont include helmsmasher - we will likely add a featuer to support this
do you think brimston is still good on mercharki if i use him for damage
or put somthing else i have two of them at 4 star but one is not booked or built?
yeah my team has a higher chance with mikage so its somewhat a waste for me but its fine on michi too
So Anax with helmsmasher?
I wish I went for alteron. I honestly thought he was that really bad HP nuker lol.
The easiest way to see this is with 6star crushing rend and helmsmasher on multi hit champs. When the true damage hits…you see it. Fenax’s differentials are ridiculous
oh man, i got helmsmasher on my michinaki and got 2* crushing rend.. couple hours ago, i pulled a 6* Blessing for michinaki xD.. i can't wait to try it out..
More vids like this 👍
Thats the plan!
Can u have Archer For shards? Before her IS gone?
she is currently summonable until 5th march
You sure are smart
Interesting very interesting......
So here's my thoughts, helmsmasher should be used for those champion who has arena nuke potential. I used to use Rotos on hydra normal and he always put up a great damage. Of course AOE damage dealers out damage him, but I'm pretty sure Rotos is better in help smasher. Also the same case for harima whom I use in hydra hard and her damage is insane especially on decapitated heads.
So basically, use your nuked on helmsmasher if you desire, but on general champion, I think warmaster is better
I showed up 13s after video drops. My upvote gets counteracted down to "0" the moment I hit it.
Saph, you got some speedy haters showing up within 15secs. You must be doing something right 😉
I have finally time to grind FK and Minotaur again... has no context to the video but who cares 😅
Area bonuses... how cute. Saph thinks people play live arena =0
There are a few things you are not taking into consideration, plus you are "assuming" a couple things ontop.
Unfortunately your theory is broken.
expand on this or stfu
Thanks for the lack of detail in what breaks my theory!
@@HHGamingNetwork I have more important things to do than write an essay.
You must be fully aware that I cannot point out you mistakes in a few paragraphs, I had to pause to take in some of your method, but there are other masteries, actions and equipment that supersede you comparison between the two attack masteries you are highlighting, that actually make it completely fail.
Who am I though to dare disagree with a content creator, the Gods of modern day society.
Just by your response, instead of politely asking why I might disagree, it's again modern day passive aggressive attitude that symbolizes "how dare you disagree with me", I'm a creator for H.H gaming".
Enjoy your pedestal mate and I look forward to the apology that will never arrive, when you realise the mistakes you have made.
@@HHGamingNetwork Apologies, but also I failed to mention the amount you take on assumption, almost comical for a theoretical principle to be based on so much of the unknown, especially when fractions are involved.
Unfortunately I don't possess a God brain, gifted by the UA-cam deities.
So ultimately I should bow to your obviously superior intellect.
@marcusroberts7624 I think if you look at your first message you'll realise that when reading online without having knowledge of your stream of thoughts - it comes across very much like "you're wrong" with no answer. So if you imagine me spending hours building this out testing and then recording for a comment to be just "you're wrong" then you can see why my first reaction is - "thanks for that".
I never profess to be the arbiter of all things raid and I welcome feedback and critiques - i've made math errors in the past - had you provided me context then you will have gotten a fairer response from me.
You didnt put your first comment as "I have some concerns - i'll reach out to you" or "i need to formulate feedback because there's some issues i'll add to this comment". I get hundreds of comments so its impossible for me to know you're still formulating a response.
I would welcome your thoughts as to the issues and what i've overlooked however because you've briefly mentioned combination of other masteries and actions but still not given me specifics to look into.
Not quite an apology that you would like but a reasoning to my initial response and an invitation for further feedback is welcomed!