@erbxvdfb Or owe NOTHING and you spent a whole lotta time getting stuff together. Nothing has been officially posted from the Thai government other than a basic framework. Sit tight, grab a Leo, and avoid jumping off the deep end. Time enough for panic soon enough!
@@beverlyweber4122 Could not have said it any better myself. Think about this tax stuff only if it ever hits the fan. In the mean time, I'll kick back, enjoy a few cold Leo's at sunset with my darling Thai wife and be grateful for having a simple, easy retired life here in Thailand.
Good advice. All these "media stories" might be a politically soft tactic to scare off the cheap Charlies. My wife is an accountant. She recently completed our 2024 Thai tax returns, and I only pay tax on income derived from trading Thai equities.
Rule 1 - Own nothing in Thailand you are not willing to walk away from on short notice and at a complete loss. Rule 2 - Limit your time in Thailand to less 180 days per calendar year.
Ramze, I met with an attorney here in Bangkok and he said "Just live your life and completely ignore this tax stuff." That was a Thai attorney. He said there are no new laws requiring expats to pay tax. So, that's my plan.
Whose did u talk to? I would like to maybe talk to this lawyer as already spoke to one of the top tax / law firms in BKK and heard opposite. Not sure if they’re advising right or trying to get business..
Nah. I have made the decision NOT to retire in Thailand. Can't become a citizen, can't own land, you are always classed as a tourist, why the hell pay taxes for that?
There seems to be a deeply held belief by those in government that every farang and his mother wants to live here and is willing to jump through endless hoops to do so.
Lately I’ve been hearing a little more negativity on Thailand- the horrible air quality,the language barrier, and the impending tax on farangs and the visa issues. stifling heat and humidity, and farangs getting played like fiddles by Thai women..
one of the vloggers , greeny who lives in Thailand is fleeing the country because of the horrible air pollution during the burning season, from what I understand the air quality is getting worse, and is lasting longer than usual.. I live about half the time in the Philippines and I gather it’s not as bad as Thailand.. couldn’t bring myself to live in a Buddhist country,where there’s a language barrier either, for me those are two deal breakers ..
Funny how the people raising the most fear about this are the ones wanting to sell you a service. Ben over at Integrity Legal has been doing a good job explaining the actual law about how this is all shaking out.
Ben is a joke, he rants about competitors who give tax advice for free since they according to him operate illegally. No they don't, not unless they claim to be given expert advice. He however is an American attorney, not a Thai attorney, still he argue like he is an expert. No, being a Thai citizen doesn't qualify him to be an expert, not that he owns a legal company either. A qualified expert understand that this video for example is fully legal. You are allowed to discuss this and give your opinion and your understanding of things. As long as you don't pretend to be an expert.
@ He doesn't even understand that the changes 2024 didn't require a change of the law. It's just a new interpretation of the law. For us however the effect is the same, new rules apply. He rants about that the government cannot do this but who of us wants to fight the Thai government in a Thai court just because Ben as an American attorney say they cannot do this?
@@Johan654-s1f He does rant too much, but your first sentence just isn't true. He has literally gone off about the fact that the law didn't change with the new rules. That it's just an interpretation that has changed. That specific topic triggers him more than any other. You saying the opposite is disingenuous at best.
That is actually part of the problem and the point of this video. It’s endless scary speculation which hurts anyone trying to be comfortable with any real investments here.
@@winxtra2892 Me too. Seems to pour water on the fire of BIG foreign money coming into Thailand from ex pats. Does nothing for me as I've been seriously considering moving to Thailand to retire. I wonder what the figures are for tourism and those who retire to Thailand are... billions?
182 days in Thailand, 183 elsewhere. Problem solved, headaches cancelled. A couple of flights in and out far cheaper than those hefty taxes on money you have already been taxed on in your home country in most cases.
That's an interesting thought. Personally, I'd rather set up to stay over the longer term in one place though. But again, it's an interesting thought. Would just be a short trip into a neighbouring country that is similar but without the added expense?
if only the world came up with an idea to avoid double taxation. maybe they could call them "tax treaties", sounds like a catchy name. it's always the best and brightest migrating... at least that's what the media told me.
As someone who has visited Thailand 4 or 5 times & considering a permanent move there, the prospect of being taxed & having the rules change on a regular basis is enough for me to wait & see what happens first. I have noticed quite the change in attitudes over the past 15 years & Thailand might be targeting those tourists with lots of cash that are causing problems. Hence big credit card purchases might be their way of tracking where the money is coming from. I agree though, who needs to have to deal with tax laws & accounting if you are simply retired? Especially when there are other options.
"Thailand might be targeting those tourists with lots of cash that are causing problems." thing is, the vast majority of westerners arent causing problems. if I were to guess, i'd say its the Chinese flooding in and being opportunistic (with the help of their Chinese-Thai brethren). Same cr-ap is happening here in the PH, and you guessed it...the westerners have to deal with all the extra red-tape and other cr-ap. Believe it or not, all expats here are on permanent "parole/probation". Why ? b/c every two months there is a mandatory criminal background check (paid for by you, of course) with your visa extension.
right. you'd uproot your entire life and relocate to another country because you can't be arsed to pay someone a few baht to file a tax return. makes sense. after all, no other countries on earth have income taxes. it's a uniquely thai concept.
@@sheiladikshit5110 No other country has income tax for non resident or retirees & you still have choices. If it were only paying a few Baht for the return, you can bet where Governments are concerned if they CAN they will tax you so where does it stop?
@sheiladikshit5110 dumb comment. It's not the accountant fees he is worried about. it's the actual tax payable, especially on a pension. And if you could read properly you would note he said it was affecting his decision to move there or not. Not that he was already there and considering uprooting his life. Regardless, many retirees in Thailand are very portable anyway, they rent, don't have Thai spouses or many possessions. Moving might be as simple as selling a 2nd hand scooter and buying a ticket out.
I went with my wife. To the tax office. She owns a business. She told them I was an American. Living on social security. I asked if I needed to do anything to file or check in or whatever. They said no. 60 countries have tax treaties with Thailand if you're from one of those countries you don't have to worry most likely. The people you're talking about are lawyers and accountants trying to drum up business by scaring people. I've heard some of them suggest go ahead and get a tax ID number and file even if you don't think you need to. In other words let us take your money for something that's not necessary. It's s passed on by other people trying to get clicks on UA-cam.
There's a US attorney who works in Bangkok and is also a Thai National. He's blasted those farangs who are running around giving Thai tax advice which he says are in contravention of prohibited occupations. He also has stressed that these announced changes are not a foregone conclusion. He said that the advice being bandied around by 'tax advisors' is dangerous for many as it is potentially causing many expats to obtain tax IDs when they don't need to and lodging tax that they didn't have to. Spending money on tax accountants and advisors as well, who are rubbing their hands together with all the money that this will generate. It's causing panic and stress to the expat community. And already there are those who have therefore left Thailand too. I'm from Australia and for example, our outdated Dual Taxation Agreement with Thailand appears to not exempt private pensions, which in Australia are tax-exempt. Also capital gains, which in Australia are tax-exempt (your primary residence) or if an investment it can have a 50% discount on capital gains if held over 12 months. So my rental property when I sell and if remitted any of the capital gains into Thailand, I am apparently also not exempt from tax there. Same applies to franking credits from share dividends - not apparently recognized in Thailand, so remitting tax credits from franking credits could be targeted too. Plus tax offsets that reduce tax liability in my country - are they recognised in Thailand if I remit funds? I have so many deductions that I legitimately claim for that reduce my tax so much I am often in credit, which Thailand may therefore see as me not having paid tax? So many questions. And also Australian tax year ends 30 June. And I don't prepày tax. So income goes into my bank untaxed and only assessed once I lodge my return (around November/December usually). So what happens there? Do I have to therefore prepay tax in Australia from now on? And do I need to pay my accountant in Australia to do a second customised half year tax report (for Dec 31) to tally up everything for me? It also means I would need to pay for half yearly income reports. Plus then need to pay for a Thai tax accountant and advisor to sort the mess. It takes me a couple of months to sort and do my yearly tax return in Australia. A lot of time. I cannot imagine then having to do that for a half yearly Oz return as well and then another load of time in Thailand. Paperwork, stress, a lot of cost, plus the stated 'incoming remittance tax' on top. Yeah add remittance sources from credit card spending too and cash brought in through the airport. It is 100% a deal breaker for me and would be for many others. I have spent 2024 trying to minimize my spending in case this goes ahead. I postponed buying a car. And any plan of buying a condo in the future is also on hold. If this tax is implemented and enforced then I am leaving Thailand for good. None of this 6 under months out and more than 6 months come back to Thailand, to stay under the tax-residency threshold. Most of us came here to settle, retire, have a life, build relationships, friends, community, peace. Not expecting this new version of a living hell. Other countries are tax exempt and welcome retirees. And yes, there will be certain retirees that are just lucky their Dual Taxation Agreement from their country with Thailand means their income sources are tax-exempt in Thailand (military and certain civil servant pensions, US social security, Hong Kong pensions etc). The rest of us are unfairly taxed. And most Dual Taxation Agreements are also decades old, so very outdated and create this unfair system due to various implementations that occurred since. The one-year rule sorted out the unfairness at least by allowing others to remit their funds after being kept abroad for one year. I am waiting and seeing, like most expats are doing. But won't be spending much at all until there is clarity.
"There's a US attorney who works in Bangkok and is also a Thai National. ", which means he is not qualified but still pretending to be an expert and thus do what he accuses other youtubers for.
how is it a danger warning expats that are nothing but a net possitive flowing of income into the Thailand that they might be targets of forceful double - triple even quadripple tax on income not even earned in Thailand. Go where you are treated best ex-pats are looking to chill no stress not be targets of greed. These talks before something is law are important to stay ahead of things, .
@@Johan654-s1f His qualification could be questionable but but m sure he has a work permit, and this is allowed to legally practice law in Thailand BUT he was the same one that was promoting the Thai Cop called Big Joke against Thai corruption charges, that Thailand police and government removed from his police position and his candidacy as the Thai Top Cop!! I thought his position on that was strange unless it was a Quid pro Quo!
I had plans to retire in Thailand and buy a villa or condo in Hua Hin. However, from all the tax nonsense I'm hearing, I think I will actually buy a citizenship next door in Cambodia and get my house or condo there. I can just jump across the border when I want to hit up Thailand.
Buying citizenship in Cambodia is very expensive. You are better off getting a retirement visa and buying an apartment through an arrangement. You can't buy land if you are a foreigner though some people say otherwise. Or just rent. Cheaper and more flexible. If you're retiring you'll be dead within 30 years anyway, maybe less.
If you get Cambodian citizenship then its easy to come to Thailand - you could even apply for that beautiful 2 year workers visa with all the perks like healthcare for 2Kb per year.
You can buy a villa in HH, but understand that you are purchasing a 30 year lease at a 'freehold' price. That is a terrible investment. Your neighbour is Thai. You have identical houses. You both paid 5 million. The Thai has a freehold title. You have a 30 year lease which reduces in value every year. Your contract will include a clause to extend the lease, by mutual agreement, for a further term of 30 years. In some cases, the contract will permit two extensions of 30 years each, again subject to mutual agreement. These 'extensions' are a legal grey area. I have read that they are quite possibly not enforceable. Additionally, what happens if the lessee dies? I have read that this terminates the lease. It is a topic fraught with unknowns. But the bottom line is clear. It makes zero sense to pay a freehold price for a leasehold interest.
@@francoiswilliams The comment was tongue in cheek - to highlight the two-tiered immigration policy. If someone comes from surrounding (MOU) country they can work anywhere or run even their own business without needing any official business documentation and they will still get a 2 year visa and work permit and can live Tax free. They don't even need a passport just an identification document and a couple other pieces of paper. I'd love to see if old whitey with a Cambodian passport could get all those benefits ? 😂
And before someone says, we should be contributing to Thailand, those of us who live here full time and spend millions of baht pumping it into the Thai economy do just that. 👍
Agreed. In exchange for enjoying the food, natural beauty and (mostly) super nice people, we're pumping in a ton of revenue I don't think they'd want to do without.
Cambodia just lowered their visa costs and none of this bs about taxing $ you earned outside of Thailand. Why not live in a place that treats you better and just vacation in Thailand?
Not sure if you noticed, but Grab recently started charging a 3% foreign card fee about a year ago, so now I use Bolt for taxi and Lineman and Food Panda for food since neither charge the fee.
It really does seem like they are trying to kick people out.... What would be some other countries that would be better choices if you decide to move or stay past the Thailand 180 days?
If you are comfortable long term and constantly moving, there are no shortage of nearby countries that are similar to Thailand while still offering their own unique charm. Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines seem to be the most popular.
You can't tax people who stay in Thailand on a tourist visa. I believe the Thai government has become complacent due to the global attention Thailand receives, but they must understand that once people decide to leave the country, it will be very difficult to convince them to change their minds.
@ Most of us staying in Thailand are already taxpayers. You can’t tax people twice-it goes against international laws. Personally, I would prefer to leave Thailand rather than pay a single baht to the Thai government. I’m here for the good environment and relaxation, not for conflict.
@ No it does not go against international laws to tax people twice. Many countries do however have DTA agreements that gives you the highest tax any of the countries demands. Without DTA it could however be double taxation.
@@Johan654-s1f I’m referring to tax treaties, which apply in cases where you have a company outside of Thailand. The government in the country where the company is registered is responsible for collecting sales tax and income tax (how income tax is applied depends on the type of company and its location). The Thai government cannot collect sales tax on goods or services sold outside of Thailand, as they have no jurisdiction over those transactions. Regarding income tax, they can only attempt to estimate your earnings based on your spending within Thailand. At this point, it feels like a pi**te demanding money on Phuket’s beaches, because I do not earn my money in Thailand, I do not have any Thai customers, I am not a Thai citizen, and I am staying on a tourist visa. Whoever came up with these ideas clearly does not understand taxation. Furthermore, taxing individuals on earnings acquired before entering Thailand is a blatant violation of international laws and most likely breaches tax treaties as well.
Just work in cash. If you take a $120 return flight to Malaysia you can bring $20000 of cash in crisp $100 bills back in to Thailand without making a customs declaration. Stick that in a safe deposit box. Draw out periodically from safe deposit box and change to THB.
@ - If you deposit 800,000thb in an account you don’t have to prove any specific income level. Anyhow, the point is that you only have to pay tax on money remitted to thailand. Say you have $50,000 usd of income. You transfer $12,000 annually. You pay tax on $12,000. You might unofficially top that up with cash bought in legally, and not declared. It creates no auditable trail of evidence. Aside from that, most western countries have a dual taxation treaty with Thailand. Thai tax is paid net of whatever your home tax liability is. You don’t pay twice. I really don’t get the excitement. If a wealthy Thai citizen became a US resident would they have to pay at least some US tax? Of course the bloody would! 🤦♂️
@ 800k that will be taxed, great! And in most other countries we get something when we become a tax payer, in Thailand we don't. Not even equal treatment by the law.
@@Johan654-s1f - No, the 800k is not taxed. You have to have it in place for 90 days before you apply for the retirement visa. As a resident you’re getting pretty much everything a Thai gets. The majority of Government spending is on infrastructure and government employees such as roads, transport networks, the electricity grid, water, Police, the army, etc. Provisions for social security and healthcare which you don’t get are minimal pittance anyway. GDP per capita in Thailand is about $7,000 USD. In the USA it’s over $80,000 USD. How much per head do you think they spend on healthcare and welfare? Healthcare spend per capita is less than $500. Any Thais with money go private the same as expats have to. Welfare payments are so small they aren’t worth having.
Example of "foreign credit card usage in Thailand, if converted to Thai baht" would be buying a Rolex with the card then selling it. Mostly targeted towards China, which has strict controls on currency leaving the country.
If they accept American Express, use the pay by USD option. Amex pays all foreign conversation fees which are different from foreign transaction fees some 🇺🇸 credit cards charge.
As DTV visa holders, owning a small business in UK, we spent nearly 6 months this year filing taxes in the UK on our income and corporation tax and VAT filings! The stress this prospect and ambiguity of whether we'll have to sign up and calculate and file Thai taxes too is causing, is tremendous. That, coupled with the awful Air Pollution for over half the year, and the needing to declare our residency every 3 months, on top of the other travel admin, just gave us so much admin, we barely have time to do our work as Digital Nomads! It's just brought so much stress, that we'd left. Thailand is just not a workcation with all these rules, ambiguity, needing to sign up to taxes as a "tourist", and obligations. Just not worth it for us sadly, as we can't work like that. :( Other DN visas either make you file tax, but give you full benefits leading to citizenship e.g. Spain, Portugal, or tell you that you don't have to pay tax, but just don't get the citizenship etc benefits e.g. Barbados, Costa Rica, Croatia, Mauritius. In Thailand, you file tax, declare residency like someone with PR, be scared that you are an idiot for wasting your time and money filing thai taxes, AND get no benefits!
I’ve seen lots of recent debate on this. Some are claiming that farang and/or Thai tax consultants are needlessly scaremongering the expat community, as they essentially want the fees for getting you a Tax ID and preparing a tax return. There are also suggestions that it’s better to do nothing, particularly if you aren’t approached by Thai Revenue - proactively getting a tax ID at an early stage, if it’s unnecessary, can apparently disadvantage you later on in some scenarios. There are also claims that Thai Revenue would be in no way able to deal with hundreds of thousands of additional tax returns, which would presumably happen if they genuinely demand a tax return from every single person resident in Thailand for >180 days per year. On the other hand, deciding to do nothing, essentially staying under the radar, pretty much because of the historic and ongoing incompetence of Thai authorities regarding enforcement of most of their laws and regulations would also make me feel a bit hesitant. Perhaps keeping records on the source of foreign funds brought into Thailand from overseas is probably sensible in any event, just in case you’re picked for some sort of audit by Thai Revenue in due course.
@@alexfrog9191 but if it's not law there is no need to keep records. They need to pass a law first, only then can individuals be expected to adhere to it.
If this is the case it would be very wise for the Thai Government to make an official statement. These unethical 'tax consultants' could cost Thailand billions of dollars otherwise. You are miles ahead of me though in this matter. Hope my comment makes sense.
@@jbennison5672 What law are you missing? There is already laws saying they can tax income brought into Thailand. Previously they did not enforce this but nothing stops them from doing it now. Now they also have CRS and FATCA in place.
The law about credit card taxation. I remember hearing about all tax proposals last year about bringing income into Thailand. Have they been finalised now?@@Johan654-s1f
@@Johan654-s1f It certainly is. I don`t know which country you are from, but if it is a Scandinavian country, current Thai tax law has been real and enforced for many expats, for many years already. That is, for those who have permanently (according to their home country`s laws) moved to Thailand. DTAs have different wording for each country, everyone should read their own.
Even if that s*it is never enforced - just talking about it makes people antsy and not buy that condo not planning on staying longer and people that invested here are already looking to Secure the bag and prepare for that rainy day.
If credit card transactions are taxable income, I can see shops refusing to take Foreign credit cards if they have to do some paperwork ... It will also be interesting to find out how they handle Wise transfers. They show up as local transfers on bank accounts/books, so companies get charged 7% VAT even though the money technically comes from abroad. Individuals who transfer money from abroad with Wise will typically have an entry on the passbook showing it's a local transfer...
ATM withdrawals were discussed at the presentation. They are going to track these although it may be a while before they have a efficient data collection system in place. Carden and Cha Cha said that K bank are reporting all inbound remittances to the Revenue Department. 'Head in the sand' is an unwise approach. People need to prepare evidence of their funds/assets as at 31 December 2023 as these are not 'assessable'.
Neighboring countries should start upping their game by offering more long term visa options so that they can start eating Thailand's lunch! There seems to be a belief held by many in the government that every farang and his mother wants to live here and is willing to jump through endless hoops to do so.
Thai govt. is starting to think like the USA. People do NOT want to be bogged down in tedious tax nonsense. They will simply go somewhere that respects them and their time by making it SIMPLE.
We all have to accept the implementing changes to tax policies I am a retiree here and object to having to complete a tax return Nevertheless, late last year, i obtained a tax ID number from my local revenue dept ,a simple procedure, last week called to in to the revenue dept complete a,tax return for 2024 They asked for a basic Excel spreadsheet with income transferred to my Thai accounts , no big deal in and out within an hour with a tax certificate with no tax liability You do not need tax accountants to complete this for you Preparing and understanding what they require in advance is essential, However, the advice given by a senior revenue officer is that residing here for 180 days or more will require you to file a tax return by 31/03/2025 or be fined Burying your head in the sand and doing nothing is a risk you take, and it may or may not bite you in the bum at some later date I took my advice from the government revenue dept, not a,you tube blogger, and compiled to what I was told
Don't be a chump and get TIN (good luck) because some "expert" on UA-cam says you need to. Authorities will notify you directly if you're expected to do anything.
The Philippines, where English is widely spoken, an archipelago of over 7,000 islands does not tax foreign worldwide income. The weather is great here, health care and other costs are low, the people are very friendly, and getting a retirement visa is straightforward.. Why live in Thailand ?🤔
Yep, the people, language,and religion were the driving factors in my decision to choose the Philippines- I get that people tout the infrastructure and food in Thailand, but I have access to western food ( which my wife will cook for me) and I feel comfortable knowing that the Philippines is so much like American culture, similar government, everywhere I go , everything is written in English, got my 13a visa approval, so far , other than the usual complaints about the Philippines, I’ve learned to accept and embrace the downsides of living here. married happily to the right Filipina makes it all worthwhile 😊
I'm in Thailand but PI currious. I'm not a fan of their worse infrastructure, food, pollution, noise and over-the-top Christianity, but I'm very in tune with most other aspects of their culture. If I find a quiet clean place to live I just might end up there.
@ No place Is perfect on this planet and there will always be trade-offs no matter where one lives. The pollution tends to be in certain areas of the larger cities. Noise in the provinces tends to be dogs and roosters, and in the larger cities it’s motos and cars, assuming you live close to the ground. Here in Makati, I don’t see much of either. As it relates to infrastructure, this all depends on what your daily needs are. In my area, I can walk to most restaurants and shops and don’t worry about traffic, although a trip to see a physician or take a flight from the airport almost always requires a Grab ( Uber equivalent) ride. Finally, there is a large Catholic influence here, but it doesn’t get in the way of my daily life- I just ignore it. Check it out sometime and let me know if I can give you any tips.
Lots of sensible comments here. The Thai authorities couldn't care less about you if you keep your head down. Bother nobody & nobody bothers you. Don't own anything. Rent & move around from time to time. Don't flaunt your wealth. If you have a local girlfriend make sure she's as modest as you. You will never have a problem.
Thanks, dude! A certain frustration can’t be hidden but definitely understandable. My consequence: staying max 179 days p.a. in Thailand and I am out of any Thai tax issues …..
Your initial instincts are correct... ignore the noise and wait for the law. US has a tax treaty with Thailand.... you won't pay any more taxes... your only fees (should the law actually come to fruition) is the cost of the accountant to prepare the return... That is the worst case scenario. Given how much money you save by living there rather than the US, the small cost and inconvenience of a prepared return is well worth the aggravation.
I agree with you 100% , i do not understand the Thai logic of wanting more foreigners to come to Thailand and making less appealing to stay in Thailand . I come in Thailand 5 months per year and i was looking at moving here .Now i am exploring other countries that are more expat friendly.
The UK and probably the US has a 'double taxation agreement' with Thailand. I believe this means that UK nationals residing in Thailand are entitled to Thai tax relief on money brought into Thailand which has already been taxed in their home countries. The amount of tax relief is equal to the amount of tax paid. If therefore foreign income tax is higher than Thai income tax, the Thai tax man gets nothing. I believe that UK tax is indeed higher, so there isn't much point in Thai tax authorities demanding tax returns from retired UK expats. Maybe what has piqued the Thai tax authorities interest is the likelihood that there is now more untaxed foreign income being brought into the country. That's fair game for them and is probably what any recent tax changes and planned changes are aimed at. I can't see foreign credit/debit card usage being classed as income.
This rule makes perfect sense. If they are going to tax money coming in to Thailand, then using a foreign credit card is the exact same thing. You do have a tax treaty to prevent double taxation. If you don’t want to comply with the tax rules in Thailand, you can stay less than 179 days and not be subject to tax. Or you can move.
Thanks for bringing this up.🤔 Some similar things happened in Portugal which literally destroyed it's expat migration. They loved all the money coming in, the increased property values and sales. Then their own bureaucracy started to hate the extra work and got greedy. It just started to snowball. But I've never heard a country treating credit card purchases as taxable income?😮 Would it be extra percentages added to all foreign credit card purchases? The good thing is bureaucracy is famous for throwing 💩 at a fan in front of them to see what sticks on the wall behind them.😉
@@jenniferwithey6443 Thank you for letting me know. The only thing I've read about Spain is the Pensionado Program. And I haven't done a full dive into living there. I've only been to Spain once, and that was a while ago.
I can’t wrap my head around the concept of an old ex- pat obsessed with owning land/property in a foreign country, these guys probably won’t live 10 more years why would you subject yourself to a headache , when rent is so cheap in places like the Philippines and Thailand 🤷♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Reminds me the "NYC Window Breaker Bandit" who broke storefronts in New York City and left stickers or business cards for window repair services at the scene.
This has made me rethink my possible plans. What's Vietnams and Philippines condo prices like? Uncertainty is not helpful so not visiting Thailand this year.
Never buy a place to live in a country where you don't have permanent permission to stay. What happens in Thailand shows that you always should make sure you can leave. What do you think will happen with the condo prices in Thailand after this, will there even be any buyers for condos made for foreigners?
"foreign credit card usage in Thailand, if converted to Thai baht," Did anybody ask for an example? I don't know what the phrase means. If I stay in a hotel for a month and pay with a foreign card, will I have to make a declaration? "180 days OR bringing money into Thailand" (my caps). Every tourist brings money into Thailand. Is that "OR" a mistake 😮?
Yes very good point. They are not very good at writing unambiguous text, at least not in English. Another example is Section 5 for the LTR visa. They state income derived from previous year is tax exempt if you have LTR. But this means income derived more than 1 year ago is not tax exempt. We can of course understand what the intention of the text is but legal instruction has to be totally clear and not subject of interpretation.
Ah well that potentially answers a question for me, we didn't necessarily want to stay in one place however we were thinking of doing the 5 year visa and using Thailand as a base to go round Asia from there, I think now we will just do a few months in each country and not have a base or err towards Philippines as the base 🤷. Thanks again Ramze any more spanners you want to throw in the works 🤣🤣.
@BasedInBrazil simply put....Diving 😁 Philippines has some amazing dive sites, we had a 6 week holiday in Thailand 2 years ago and while we didn't think it was amazing it was perfectly adequate for us, we will likely go spend a few weeks in the Philippines to get a feel for it there and decide. Luckily we took the rose tinted glasses off years ago so nowhere is precious to us in that sense.
If you think TLand follows logic when it comes to this sort of stuff (incl visa stuff too, obviously)...think again. lmao. I learned way back in 2010 not to trust them.
If that becomes a reality, there is a good reason not to stay in Thailand during the hot and rainy seasons, if nothing else, the weather is okay in Europe at that time of the year...
Btw I just learned the ltr visa has been updated now since it wasn't selling as well they hoped to be more inclusive for more people. Little easier to get. Feel free to research it. You won't get taxed or be messed w on foreign income. Has many perks like only a 1 time yearly check in
Why should u have to file taxes in a country you don’t earn any income from? How in the hell is using a credit card considered “income”. Do the Thais even know what the definition of income is?
@ we aren’t Thai citizens sending money back to the family. We have no rights in Thailand. So we don’t pay anything more than normal sales tax when we consume
@ if I’m in the USA and I earn no income in the USA. I owe no taxes in the USA. Why would someone pay income taxes on no income made in the country ? And more importantly a place that gives you no rights?
I quit my job in June 2022. So, I don't have any "income". The returns that I get on my very modest stock portfolio are reinvested. I can prove all of this with my U.S. tax returns. I probably spend about $2,500 USD per month in Thailand.
Taxing foreign credit card usage? The monies you would use to pay your foreign credit card bill could already be subject toThai taxation. Any foeign income earned that is either exempt from Thai tax laws OR subject to Thai tax laws is the same money you would use to pay for credit card purchases in Thailand. Meaning Thailand could be taxing the same money twice. Or said differently, the monies Thailand would say are subject to taxation could be the same monies you use to pay your credit card bill on Thai purchases, So they would tax that same money once as taxable foeign earnings/monies and again if that's the monies youuse to pay your cc bill.
I don't see how they can prove your CC usage unless you volunteer it and who would do that? If they finalize taxing money just because I bring it into the country, I see that like a cover charge at a bar. You want charge me just for the privilege of doing business with you? I don't think so. There is plenty of other places to take my money.
No Taxation without representation...we need to have a Tea party! Well, these stories have been floating around for sometime, engendering fear, uncertainty and doubt. Worry about it when it actually happens.
Move to Albania (if you are American). No visa required for a full solid YEAR. And quite lax tax issues. And a quick boat ride to Italy! Or just sit tight and wait until clarification from OFFICIAL sources, someone who is a lawful legal representative once the details are determined.
I’m retired here as well for the last 3 years… living off of SS and savings…I just rented a storage space for my stuff….i don’t think I should owe any tax to Thailand but if I do I’ll pay it and if they make this to difficult I’ll just go to Cambodia for 6 months of the year… my only worry is what will happen to the tai people that I love and support right now with my retirement money…… I guess Thailand doesn’t care if more of there people will be living on the streets…
The new tax memorandum only changes the law due to rich Thais bypassing paying taxes by holding the money for a year. The new system brings Thailand to the same taxation that most other countries follow/ My wife is Thai and lives in Canada. We get taxes on her earned money in Thailand. The only difference is what Ramze was saying about benefits. I agree that there should be something benefiting the expat for paying taxes. Perhaps a better (easier) way to citizenship or PR. The Thailand situation isn't that bad. Double Tax Treaties will help a lot although some people may be lucky. Leaving is a good option. There are still some countries that don't levy taxes on expats. It won't be Thailand but may be very suitable for you.
@Johan654-s1f Types of income are clearly defined. Proving it of course not. One could argue that a withdrawal with a credit card is not income, because it is a short term credit. But thats just a loophole which will be closed if it really becomes relevant.
For myself it is a concern as the next few years are looking to retire in Thailand, You would think if you retired here they would make it more attractive as they provide a constant source of income in all areas and not subjected to high/low season. But they seem it ignore that sector instead all these others. You see the targeting of certain groups every year it would not take much to look at retirees first as they can provide a stable base and get rid of 90 day reporting after all they have digitized all the information anyway so what is the point of it. Great they give visa free and extended the time for Holiday makers but then to add ETA soon again why when they have other systems that do the same job and don't say others are doing so they should follow like lemmings. After all Thailand in the past was open country to enjoy yourself without any hassles.
Looks like the presentation itself was recorded, it's on YT at ua-cam.com/video/XScNGwqXQm8/v-deo.html . To be fair, the headline newpaper report suggesting that using an overseas credit card for payments in Thailand could automatically be taxable is alarmist - it would be a question of degree - if you're using it as a loophole to pay monthly rent, make huge purchases, etc, avoiding potentially tax assessible bank transfers from US into Thailand, they might challenge this. But then again who knows, the presenter says Thai Tax dept is making things up as they go along.
I think if anything is to come of this then we won't know until at least a few months after the deadline of March 31 tax filings. I feel it will be mostly business as per usual. But let's all hurry up and wait.
We will never know, not even in the end of this year. Even if they haven't yet enforced anything by then they can still enforce taxes for 2024 several years later.
@@Johan654-s1f We will never know???? I fairly certain it will be all over social media if people get asked to file tax returns by the govt. But the fact that we are now in the tax filing window and we are NOT hearing anything bodes well indeed. Anyone who has already paid tax on earnings OS should be alright anyway, unless the tax rate is less than Thailand then they may have to make up the difference. IE. A friend from the USA told me that as he was living abroad he didn't pay tax on the first $50K of his US earnings. He's since returned to the US but others in the same circumstance may be taxable here.
@ The problem in Thailand is that different government staff may decide things differently. So no, we will likely not know for sure what applies next year either, we will just get some information about what happened to different farangs. And even if nothing is enforced this year, they can still come back and enforce taxation for 2024 next year. If the discover you brought in income 2024 they may demand documentation from you this year, next year or even later. We will likely therefore never really know anything for sure. The same applies for Visa applications, different offices have different requirements.
@ Yeas, adding "for sure" completely changes your comment, but doesn't change mine. If the govt starts asking foreign residents to file tax then we will know FOR SURE. 100%.
I've been in Thailand since 2007 and even though they want to be known as the land of smiles, it feels more like the land of government harassment. I personally don't want to give this country any more money than I already have. If I was to receive some sort of benefits or services for paying these extra taxes such as maybe health benefits or better roads, or discounts to national parks, it might make it easier to pay, but we all know there won't be anything more than "farang, you should be happy that we let you stay in our country, now give us your money". I love most of the general population of Thais but next month I'm getting on a flight out of here and plan to be gone for at least 190 days if not longer each year.
Agreed. What about those who pay off our credit card debt with funds that are classified exempt (non-assessable) by a DTA? I suspect that there will be a lot of cases resulting in Thailand Revenue ultimately burning its own ass.
What more law do you need? There is already laws saying they can tax income brought into the country. Just because they didn't enforce these laws earlier doesn't imply they cannot do it now.
@ The only action was the withdrawal of a memo…no other actions taken or policies published…and NO laws published in the Royal Gazette. No EVIDENCE of anything…just media and UA-cam commenters making pronouncements.
@@RamzeTravels No unfortunately the promise about tax exempt for LTR is not correct. Read section 5 and you will see that this exempt only income derived from previous year. I.e. if you bring in income generated this year it will be taxable this year.
You are completely spot on here. I don't want all this stress and hassle even if I can avoid all taxes. Most likely I would have to pay money to tax experts though, even though they will not be able to tell me exactly what is taxable or not. The thing to prove when I earned my income, keep that money on separate accounts, never mix them with other money and provide documentation for all this is too much. In practice this is very hard. Also the total lack of clear an detailed information from the official sources is not acceptable. Now we have to guess how it works, no one really knows when it comes to important details. Like what is savings, what is income. What if I have bought, sold stocks several times during the last 20 years. Do I need documentation for all transactions since beginning of time to prove exactly how much is income and how much is savings? No one can answer this, we can only guess. I do have a LTR visa but it's typical that the information on the LTR web page about tax exempt for foreign income is incorrect. It doesn't comply with what Section 5 stipulate. This is just an example of that we don't have official information we can trust. They are also just guessing.
Tbh I am getting the vibe from several of your videos you miss the US and Colombia.You are looking for more reasons to leave...lol..You don't need any more reasons.Go with your heart...I just came to Asia for the first time 2.5 weeks ago to Danang...People are great,love the food its beautiful here,cheap af...Just not feeling it..I am already wanting to either go back to Medellin or Vegas.I speak Spanish.So communication is a big one for me here..
I have been trying to be patient but crap like this (even if it probably never turns into anything is not helping). I suspect Thailand will end up being a great vacation destination for me in the future but not a place I invest or leave any money. Shame really.
Exactly! Although i haven’t found any easy way of spending btc in Thailand or converting some to fiat. Any thoughts? Pucket is supposedly testing it out as money soon.
You guys the truth is tax is only for commerce. No contract no consent no case. Get educated on your jurisdiction as a living breathing man that doesn't need to identify with your strawman commercialised birth certificate.
As of the end of pandemic, all countries are trying get money back they was loss, Philippines making new rules so they can more money, like after 6 months in country, you need pay 18 dollars more a month, they made a visa far those online work, like youtuber to get there pay., but good for the one who didn't marred a forgien wife, can just pick up move a better deal. I thinking about Argentine, need bring my philippines wife there.
everybody keeps saying it's iffy. I went to the Thai website and saw it in black and white. A schedule starts at 20% and goes up from there depending on your income, simple.
It actually starts at 5% (150k-300k). It`s 10% at 300k-500k, 15% at 500k-750k, 20% at 750k-1 mill, and so on. It`s a progressive system (so you pay from all lower boxes as well), and all this is after deductions. First 150k is tax free.
Well, 1. I haven't heard this anywhere else. 2. If so, then yeah, it's on you. You chose to be there. 3. It makes no sense so I don't think it is real. Credit cards are spending not income. If anything they would put a tariff on a U.S. CC transaction. It is otherwise impossible to manage, even by the U.S. IRS. Lastly, you live in their country, stop bitchin. My gut says you're probably a pretty god, fun dude, but perhaps you aren't coming off as that as much as you might. You have every right to be this pissed and negative if you were still here in Murica, but you are in their house. Embrace the suck. I would say sell the house to gain yourself some freedom. If ya need to bail back to the Americas, PI, E Europe or wherever, you can. It seems like Thailand is getting under your skin a bit too much. That may be a sign to move on out.
Man I always relate to you and your vids in real time. So where is better to retire. That is the question. I don't want cold weather, Spanish language , or high cost of living. Hmm .
@jbennison5672 no disrespect to the Spanish language or culture. I'm old and I'm not great with learning languages. In Thailand you don't need to speak Thai to get by. I traveled and lived for a bit in Spain and South America, it's a huge disadvantage if you don't speak or understand it .
My advice, do nothing, until you are asked via an official letter. Thanks for your thoughts.
100% been saying this for a while.
@erbxvdfb Or owe NOTHING and you spent a whole lotta time getting stuff together. Nothing has been officially posted from the Thai government other than a basic framework. Sit tight, grab a Leo, and avoid jumping off the deep end. Time enough for panic soon enough!
@erbxvdfb Exactly, therefor it's very irresponsible to tell other to do nothing. It is very individual of how much is on stake here.
@@beverlyweber4122 Could not have said it any better myself. Think about this tax stuff only if it ever hits the fan. In the mean time, I'll kick back, enjoy a few cold Leo's at sunset with my darling Thai wife and be grateful for having a simple, easy retired life here in Thailand.
Good advice. All these "media stories" might be a politically soft tactic to scare off the cheap Charlies. My wife is an accountant. She recently completed our 2024 Thai tax returns, and I only pay tax on income derived from trading Thai equities.
Rule 1 - Own nothing in Thailand you are not willing to walk away from on short notice and at a complete loss.
Rule 2 - Limit your time in Thailand to less 180 days per calendar year.
Rule 3 - move to another country and repeat so you never reside in any tax jurisdiction for 180 days.
So many simply cant fathom rule #1. I learned it all on my own via common sense from all the stories I heard over the years.
So you are fine as long as you live way below your means.
@ Buying Bitcoin and renting solves many problems. Owning a condo makes zero sense.
@@realpropertymangement7640a wife and family here in Thailand complicates many expat residency here especially under any proposed tax liability
Ramze, I met with an attorney here in Bangkok and he said "Just live your life and completely ignore this tax stuff." That was a Thai attorney. He said there are no new laws requiring expats to pay tax. So, that's my plan.
Ya, the guy in the video admits in the first few seconds that his title is a blatant lie and this is just stuff being talked about.
Whose did u talk to? I would like to maybe talk to this lawyer as already spoke to one of the top tax / law firms in BKK and heard opposite. Not sure if they’re advising right or trying to get business..
@@chrism8773 Integrity Legal - Ben Hart. His advice may be different for you. We are on a 20 yr visa and don't even have an apartment.
Nah. I have made the decision NOT to retire in Thailand. Can't become a citizen, can't own land, you are always classed as a tourist, why the hell pay taxes for that?
Very valid concerns.
Wanna return (to US I guess) and pay much more taxes there?
@@thomasschattat13 You guessed wrong.
@@thomasschattat13Taxes in USA are lower than in Thailand. A lot lower.
@@HyperspaceHoliday What?😂🤣
There seems to be a deeply held belief by those in government that every farang and his mother wants to live here and is willing to jump through endless hoops to do so.
@@francoiswilliams Many of them suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.
Lately I’ve been hearing a little more negativity on Thailand- the horrible air quality,the language barrier, and the impending tax on farangs and the visa issues. stifling heat and humidity, and farangs getting played like fiddles by Thai women..
@@keith-kb1zl You heard correctly, especially your last point!
one of the vloggers , greeny who lives in Thailand is fleeing the country because of the horrible air pollution during the burning season, from what I understand the air quality is getting worse, and is lasting longer than usual.. I live about half the time in the Philippines and I gather it’s not as bad as Thailand.. couldn’t bring myself to live in a Buddhist country,where there’s a language barrier either, for me those are two deal breakers ..
Funny how the people raising the most fear about this are the ones wanting to sell you a service. Ben over at Integrity Legal has been doing a good job explaining the actual law about how this is all shaking out.
Ben is a joke, he rants about competitors who give tax advice for free since they according to him operate illegally. No they don't, not unless they claim to be given expert advice. He however is an American attorney, not a Thai attorney, still he argue like he is an expert. No, being a Thai citizen doesn't qualify him to be an expert, not that he owns a legal company either.
A qualified expert understand that this video for example is fully legal. You are allowed to discuss this and give your opinion and your understanding of things. As long as you don't pretend to be an expert.
@@Johan654-s1f I quit watch most of Ben's stuff. He rants a lot about how "things don't work that way." But he rarely gives solutions.
@ He doesn't even understand that the changes 2024 didn't require a change of the law. It's just a new interpretation of the law. For us however the effect is the same, new rules apply.
He rants about that the government cannot do this but who of us wants to fight the Thai government in a Thai court just because Ben as an American attorney say they cannot do this?
@@Johan654-s1f dude is on some weird power trip. I think he thinks he owns youtube...bettter yet, the internet as some dictator. lmao
@@Johan654-s1f He does rant too much, but your first sentence just isn't true. He has literally gone off about the fact that the law didn't change with the new rules. That it's just an interpretation that has changed. That specific topic triggers him more than any other. You saying the opposite is disingenuous at best.
I had a meeting with a Thai tax consultant last week and also at immigration asked question no decisions have been made yet on any of this
That is actually part of the problem and the point of this video. It’s endless scary speculation which hurts anyone trying to be comfortable with any real investments here.
@@RamzeTravels It is hammering the RE market.
Dang, the whole point of moving there was not to deal with all the BS.
Agreed 😞
exactly..
Thailand is full of BS
@@winxtra2892 Me too. Seems to pour water on the fire of BIG foreign money coming into Thailand from ex pats. Does nothing for me as I've been seriously considering moving to Thailand to retire. I wonder what the figures are for tourism and those who retire to Thailand are... billions?
You will deal with a lot of BS here. Dealing with Immigration is no picnic either.
182 days in Thailand, 183 elsewhere. Problem solved, headaches cancelled. A couple of flights in and out far cheaper than those hefty taxes on money you have already been taxed on in your home country in most cases.
That's an interesting thought. Personally, I'd rather set up to stay over the longer term in one place though. But again, it's an interesting thought. Would just be a short trip into a neighbouring country that is similar but without the added expense?
Not a very practical solution for people with families and other commitments.
Lol. 180+ days in Thailand, pay tax in Thailand. DTA might apply but this has to be discussed with the financial department in Thailand 😊 Have fun
if only the world came up with an idea to avoid double taxation. maybe they could call them "tax treaties", sounds like a catchy name. it's always the best and brightest migrating... at least that's what the media told me.
Incorrect. 179 days in Thailand!
As someone who has visited Thailand 4 or 5 times & considering a permanent move there, the prospect of being taxed & having the rules change on a regular basis is enough for me to wait & see what happens first. I have noticed quite the change in attitudes over the past 15 years & Thailand might be targeting those tourists with lots of cash that are causing problems. Hence big credit card purchases might be their way of tracking where the money is coming from. I agree though, who needs to have to deal with tax laws & accounting if you are simply retired? Especially when there are other options.
"Thailand might be targeting those tourists with lots of cash that are causing problems." thing is, the vast majority of westerners arent causing problems. if I were to guess, i'd say its the Chinese flooding in and being opportunistic (with the help of their Chinese-Thai brethren).
Same cr-ap is happening here in the PH, and you guessed it...the westerners have to deal with all the extra red-tape and other cr-ap. Believe it or not, all expats here are on permanent "parole/probation".
Why ? b/c every two months there is a mandatory criminal background check (paid for by you, of course) with your visa extension.
right. you'd uproot your entire life and relocate to another country because you can't be arsed to pay someone a few baht to file a tax return. makes sense.
after all, no other countries on earth have income taxes. it's a uniquely thai concept.
@@sheiladikshit5110 No other country has income tax for non resident or retirees & you still have choices. If it were only paying a few Baht for the return, you can bet where Governments are concerned if they CAN they will tax you so where does it stop?
@sheiladikshit5110 dumb comment. It's not the accountant fees he is worried about. it's the actual tax payable, especially on a pension. And if you could read properly you would note he said it was affecting his decision to move there or not. Not that he was already there and considering uprooting his life. Regardless, many retirees in Thailand are very portable anyway, they rent, don't have Thai spouses or many possessions. Moving might be as simple as selling a 2nd hand scooter and buying a ticket out.
@ most countries tax foreign pensions, this is the norm. it would be mental not to. why should citizens be forced to subsidise random foreigners?
I went with my wife. To the tax office. She owns a business. She told them I was an American. Living on social security. I asked if I needed to do anything to file or check in or whatever. They said no. 60 countries have tax treaties with Thailand if you're from one of those countries you don't have to worry most likely. The people you're talking about are lawyers and accountants trying to drum up business by scaring people. I've heard some of them suggest go ahead and get a tax ID number and file even if you don't think you need to. In other words let us take your money for something that's not necessary. It's s passed on by other people trying to get clicks on UA-cam.
There's a US attorney who works in Bangkok and is also a Thai National. He's blasted those farangs who are running around giving Thai tax advice which he says are in contravention of prohibited occupations. He also has stressed that these announced changes are not a foregone conclusion. He said that the advice being bandied around by 'tax advisors' is dangerous for many as it is potentially causing many expats to obtain tax IDs when they don't need to and lodging tax that they didn't have to. Spending money on tax accountants and advisors as well, who are rubbing their hands together with all the money that this will generate. It's causing panic and stress to the expat community. And already there are those who have therefore left Thailand too.
I'm from Australia and for example, our outdated Dual Taxation Agreement with Thailand appears to not exempt private pensions, which in Australia are tax-exempt. Also capital gains, which in Australia are tax-exempt (your primary residence) or if an investment it can have a 50% discount on capital gains if held over 12 months. So my rental property when I sell and if remitted any of the capital gains into Thailand, I am apparently also not exempt from tax there. Same applies to franking credits from share dividends - not apparently recognized in Thailand, so remitting tax credits from franking credits could be targeted too. Plus tax offsets that reduce tax liability in my country - are they recognised in Thailand if I remit funds? I have so many deductions that I legitimately claim for that reduce my tax so much I am often in credit, which Thailand may therefore see as me not having paid tax? So many questions. And also Australian tax year ends 30 June. And I don't prepày tax. So income goes into my bank untaxed and only assessed once I lodge my return (around November/December usually). So what happens there? Do I have to therefore prepay tax in Australia from now on? And do I need to pay my accountant in Australia to do a second customised half year tax report (for Dec 31) to tally up everything for me? It also means I would need to pay for half yearly income reports. Plus then need to pay for a Thai tax accountant and advisor to sort the mess. It takes me a couple of months to sort and do my yearly tax return in Australia. A lot of time. I cannot imagine then having to do that for a half yearly Oz return as well and then another load of time in Thailand. Paperwork, stress, a lot of cost, plus the stated 'incoming remittance tax' on top. Yeah add remittance sources from credit card spending too and cash brought in through the airport. It is 100% a deal breaker for me and would be for many others. I have spent 2024 trying to minimize my spending in case this goes ahead. I postponed buying a car. And any plan of buying a condo in the future is also on hold. If this tax is implemented and enforced then I am leaving Thailand for good. None of this 6 under months out and more than 6 months come back to Thailand, to stay under the tax-residency threshold. Most of us came here to settle, retire, have a life, build relationships, friends, community, peace. Not expecting this new version of a living hell. Other countries are tax exempt and welcome retirees.
And yes, there will be certain retirees that are just lucky their Dual Taxation Agreement from their country with Thailand means their income sources are tax-exempt in Thailand (military and certain civil servant pensions, US social security, Hong Kong pensions etc). The rest of us are unfairly taxed. And most Dual Taxation Agreements are also decades old, so very outdated and create this unfair system due to various implementations that occurred since. The one-year rule sorted out the unfairness at least by allowing others to remit their funds after being kept abroad for one year.
I am waiting and seeing, like most expats are doing. But won't be spending much at all until there is clarity.
"There's a US attorney who works in Bangkok and is also a Thai National. ", which means he is not qualified but still pretending to be an expert and thus do what he accuses other youtubers for.
Thank you for that excellent comment. 👍🏻💯🇦🇺
@@Johan654-s1fis that a “big joke”???
how is it a danger warning expats that are nothing but a net possitive flowing of income into the Thailand that they might be targets of forceful double - triple even quadripple tax on income not even earned in Thailand. Go where you are treated best ex-pats are looking to chill no stress not be targets of greed. These talks before something is law are important to stay ahead of things, .
@@Johan654-s1f His qualification could be questionable but but m sure he has a work permit, and this is allowed to legally practice law in Thailand BUT he was the same one that was promoting the Thai Cop called Big Joke against Thai corruption charges, that Thailand police and government removed from his police position and his candidacy as the Thai Top Cop!!
I thought his position on that was strange unless it was a Quid pro Quo!
All this new tax stuff is for sure making me think more about if Thailand and best opts long term VS other areas.
I had plans to retire in Thailand and buy a villa or condo in Hua Hin. However, from all the tax nonsense I'm hearing, I think I will actually buy a citizenship next door in Cambodia and get my house or condo there. I can just jump across the border when I want to hit up Thailand.
Buying citizenship in Cambodia is very expensive. You are better off getting a retirement visa and buying an apartment through an arrangement. You can't buy land if you are a foreigner though some people say otherwise. Or just rent. Cheaper and more flexible. If you're retiring you'll be dead within 30 years anyway, maybe less.
If you get Cambodian citizenship then its easy to come to Thailand - you could even apply for that beautiful 2 year workers visa with all the perks like healthcare for 2Kb per year.
You can buy a villa in HH, but understand that you are purchasing a 30 year lease at a 'freehold' price. That is a terrible investment. Your neighbour is Thai. You have identical houses. You both paid 5 million. The Thai has a freehold title. You have a 30 year lease which reduces in value every year. Your contract will include a clause to extend the lease, by mutual agreement, for a further term of 30 years. In some cases, the contract will permit two extensions of 30 years each, again subject to mutual agreement. These 'extensions' are a legal grey area. I have read that they are quite possibly not enforceable. Additionally, what happens if the lessee dies? I have read that this terminates the lease. It is a topic fraught with unknowns. But the bottom line is clear. It makes zero sense to pay a freehold price for a leasehold interest.
@@francoiswilliams The comment was tongue in cheek - to highlight the two-tiered immigration policy.
If someone comes from surrounding (MOU) country they can work anywhere or run even their own business without needing any official business documentation and they will still get a 2 year visa and work permit and can live Tax free. They don't even need a passport just an identification document and a couple other pieces of paper. I'd love to see if old whitey with a Cambodian passport could get all those benefits ? 😂
Buy a villa ?
And before someone says, we should be contributing to Thailand, those of us who live here full time and spend millions of baht pumping it into the Thai economy do just that. 👍
Exactly
Agreed. In exchange for enjoying the food, natural beauty and (mostly) super nice people, we're pumping in a ton of revenue I don't think they'd want to do without.
Cambodia just lowered their visa costs and none of this bs about taxing $ you earned outside of Thailand. Why not live in a place that treats you better and just vacation in Thailand?
Not sure if you noticed, but Grab recently started charging a 3% foreign card fee about a year ago, so now I use Bolt for taxi and Lineman and Food Panda for food since neither charge the fee.
Same, same, but different.
Been in country for close to 25 years. The truth is, we are not wanted. No biggy, accept reality and move on.
It really does seem like they are trying to kick people out....
What would be some other countries that would be better choices if you decide to move or stay past the Thailand 180 days?
If you are comfortable long term and constantly moving, there are no shortage of nearby countries that are similar to Thailand while still offering their own unique charm. Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines seem to be the most popular.
You can't tax people who stay in Thailand on a tourist visa. I believe the Thai government has become complacent due to the global attention Thailand receives, but they must understand that once people decide to leave the country, it will be very difficult to convince them to change their minds.
Well they can, but perhaps you mean they shouldn't?
@ Most of us staying in Thailand are already taxpayers. You can’t tax people twice-it goes against international laws. Personally, I would prefer to leave Thailand rather than pay a single baht to the Thai government. I’m here for the good environment and relaxation, not for conflict.
@ No it does not go against international laws to tax people twice. Many countries do however have DTA agreements that gives you the highest tax any of the countries demands. Without DTA it could however be double taxation.
@@Johan654-s1f I’m referring to tax treaties, which apply in cases where you have a company outside of Thailand.
The government in the country where the company is registered is responsible for collecting sales tax and income tax (how income tax is applied depends on the type of company and its location). The Thai government cannot collect sales tax on goods or services sold outside of Thailand, as they have no jurisdiction over those transactions. Regarding income tax, they can only attempt to estimate your earnings based on your spending within Thailand. At this point, it feels like a pi**te demanding money on Phuket’s beaches, because I do not earn my money in Thailand, I do not have any Thai customers, I am not a Thai citizen, and I am staying on a tourist visa. Whoever came up with these ideas clearly does not understand taxation.
Furthermore, taxing individuals on earnings acquired before entering Thailand is a blatant violation of international laws and most likely breaches tax treaties as well.
Just work in cash. If you take a $120 return flight to Malaysia you can bring $20000 of cash in crisp $100 bills back in to Thailand without making a customs declaration. Stick that in a safe deposit box. Draw out periodically from safe deposit box and change to THB.
If you have a retirement Visa you have to prove 65,000 THB in income at least. If you have LTR you need to prove 80,000 USD per year in income.
@ - If you deposit 800,000thb in an account you don’t have to prove any specific income level. Anyhow, the point is that you only have to pay tax on money remitted to thailand. Say you have $50,000 usd of income. You transfer $12,000 annually. You pay tax on $12,000. You might unofficially top that up with cash bought in legally, and not declared. It creates no auditable trail of evidence.
Aside from that, most western countries have a dual taxation treaty with Thailand. Thai tax is paid net of whatever your home tax liability is. You don’t pay twice.
I really don’t get the excitement. If a wealthy Thai citizen became a US resident would they have to pay at least some US tax? Of course the bloody would! 🤦♂️
@ 800k that will be taxed, great! And in most other countries we get something when we become a tax payer, in Thailand we don't. Not even equal treatment by the law.
@@Johan654-s1f - No, the 800k is not taxed. You have to have it in place for 90 days before you apply for the retirement visa.
As a resident you’re getting pretty much everything a Thai gets. The majority of Government spending is on infrastructure and government employees such as roads, transport networks, the electricity grid, water, Police, the army, etc. Provisions for social security and healthcare which you don’t get are minimal pittance anyway.
GDP per capita in Thailand is about $7,000 USD. In the USA it’s over $80,000 USD. How much per head do you think they spend on healthcare and welfare? Healthcare spend per capita is less than $500. Any Thais with money go private the same as expats have to. Welfare payments are so small they aren’t worth having.
@ All income generated 2024 or later that is transferred into Thailand is taxable now. Doesn't matter how or if you use the money.
Example of "foreign credit card usage in Thailand, if converted to Thai baht" would be buying a Rolex with the card then selling it. Mostly targeted towards China, which has strict controls on currency leaving the country.
If they accept American Express, use the pay by USD option. Amex pays all foreign conversation fees which are different from foreign transaction fees some 🇺🇸 credit cards charge.
As DTV visa holders, owning a small business in UK, we spent nearly 6 months this year filing taxes in the UK on our income and corporation tax and VAT filings!
The stress this prospect and ambiguity of whether we'll have to sign up and calculate and file Thai taxes too is causing, is tremendous.
That, coupled with the awful Air Pollution for over half the year, and the needing to declare our residency every 3 months, on top of the other travel admin, just gave us so much admin, we barely have time to do our work as Digital Nomads!
It's just brought so much stress, that we'd left.
Thailand is just not a workcation with all these rules, ambiguity, needing to sign up to taxes as a "tourist", and obligations. Just not worth it for us sadly, as we can't work like that. :(
Other DN visas either make you file tax, but give you full benefits leading to citizenship e.g. Spain, Portugal, or tell you that you don't have to pay tax, but just don't get the citizenship etc benefits e.g. Barbados, Costa Rica, Croatia, Mauritius.
In Thailand, you file tax, declare residency like someone with PR, be scared that you are an idiot for wasting your time and money filing thai taxes, AND get no benefits!
I’ve seen lots of recent debate on this.
Some are claiming that farang and/or Thai tax consultants are needlessly scaremongering the expat community, as they essentially want the fees for getting you a Tax ID and preparing a tax return. There are also suggestions that it’s better to do nothing, particularly if you aren’t approached by Thai Revenue - proactively getting a tax ID at an early stage, if it’s unnecessary, can apparently disadvantage you later on in some scenarios. There are also claims that Thai Revenue would be in no way able to deal with hundreds of thousands of additional tax returns, which would presumably happen if they genuinely demand a tax return from every single person resident in Thailand for >180 days per year.
On the other hand, deciding to do nothing, essentially staying under the radar, pretty much because of the historic and ongoing incompetence of Thai authorities regarding enforcement of most of their laws and regulations would also make me feel a bit hesitant.
Perhaps keeping records on the source of foreign funds brought into Thailand from overseas is probably sensible in any event, just in case you’re picked for some sort of audit by Thai Revenue in due course.
@@alexfrog9191 but if it's not law there is no need to keep records. They need to pass a law first, only then can individuals be expected to adhere to it.
If this is the case it would be very wise for the Thai Government to make an official statement. These unethical 'tax consultants' could cost Thailand billions of dollars otherwise. You are miles ahead of me though in this matter. Hope my comment makes sense.
@@jbennison5672 What law are you missing? There is already laws saying they can tax income brought into Thailand. Previously they did not enforce this but nothing stops them from doing it now. Now they also have CRS and FATCA in place.
The law about credit card taxation.
I remember hearing about all tax proposals last year about bringing income into Thailand. Have they been finalised now?@@Johan654-s1f
@@Johan654-s1f It certainly is. I don`t know which country you are from, but if it is a Scandinavian country, current Thai tax law has been real and enforced for many expats, for many years already. That is, for those who have permanently (according to their home country`s laws) moved to Thailand. DTAs have different wording for each country, everyone should read their own.
The more they hassle expats with some money the more options we have to go elsewhere. Sounds like a good part-time retirement plan now.
Even if that s*it is never enforced - just talking about it makes people antsy and not buy that condo not planning on staying longer and people that invested here are already looking to Secure the bag and prepare for that rainy day.
Agreed. It's in their own best interest to stop talking that sh*t. It's penny wise, pound foolish thinking they're doing.
If credit card transactions are taxable income, I can see shops refusing to take Foreign credit cards if they have to do some paperwork ... It will also be interesting to find out how they handle Wise transfers. They show up as local transfers on bank accounts/books, so companies get charged 7% VAT even though the money technically comes from abroad. Individuals who transfer money from abroad with Wise will typically have an entry on the passbook showing it's a local transfer...
I'll worry about it when they link up the Revenue Department with Immigration. I get my cash by ATM. They can't track that.
Yes they can track that, we live in year 2025 now.
ATM withdrawals were discussed at the presentation. They are going to track these although it may be a while before they have a efficient data collection system in place. Carden and Cha Cha said that K bank are reporting all inbound remittances to the Revenue Department. 'Head in the sand' is an unwise approach. People need to prepare evidence of their funds/assets as at 31 December 2023 as these are not 'assessable'.
Agreed. The past 2 years have been through the looking glass. I think we need to bail on the Kingdom.
Neighboring countries should start upping their game by offering more long term visa options so that they can start eating Thailand's lunch! There seems to be a belief held by many in the government that every farang and his mother wants to live here and is willing to jump through endless hoops to do so.
Thai govt. is starting to think like the USA. People do NOT want to be bogged down in tedious tax nonsense. They will simply go somewhere that respects them and their time by making it SIMPLE.
We all have to accept the implementing changes to tax policies
I am a retiree here and object to having to complete a tax return
Nevertheless, late last year, i obtained a tax ID number from my local revenue dept ,a simple procedure, last week called to in to the revenue dept complete a,tax return for 2024
They asked for a basic Excel spreadsheet with income transferred to my Thai accounts , no big deal in and out within an hour with a tax certificate with no tax liability
You do not need tax accountants to complete this for you
Preparing and understanding what they require in advance is essential,
However, the advice given by a senior revenue officer is that residing here for 180 days or more will require you to file a tax return by 31/03/2025 or be fined
Burying your head in the sand and doing nothing is a risk you take, and it may or may not bite you in the bum at some later date
I took my advice from the government revenue dept, not a,you tube blogger, and compiled to what I was told
Don't be a chump and get TIN (good luck) because some "expert" on UA-cam says you need to. Authorities will notify you directly if you're expected to do anything.
What do tins have to do with it? Cans?
@@Lat265 Tax Idenfication Number
The Thai government is considering taxing the air farang’s breathe.
The Philippines, where English is widely spoken, an archipelago of over 7,000 islands does not tax foreign worldwide income. The weather is great here, health care and other costs are low, the people are very friendly, and getting a retirement visa is straightforward.. Why live in Thailand ?🤔
Yep, the people, language,and religion were the driving factors in my decision to choose the Philippines- I get that people tout the infrastructure and food in Thailand, but I have access to western food ( which my wife will cook for me) and I feel comfortable knowing that the Philippines is so much like American culture, similar government, everywhere I go , everything is written in English, got my 13a visa approval, so far , other than the usual complaints about the Philippines, I’ve learned to accept and embrace the downsides of living here. married happily to the right Filipina makes it all worthwhile 😊
I'm in Thailand but PI currious. I'm not a fan of their worse infrastructure, food, pollution, noise and over-the-top Christianity, but I'm very in tune with most other aspects of their culture. If I find a quiet clean place to live I just might end up there.
@
No place Is perfect on this planet and there will always be trade-offs no matter where one lives. The pollution tends to be in certain areas of the larger cities. Noise in the provinces tends to be dogs and roosters, and in the larger cities it’s motos and cars, assuming you live close to the ground. Here in Makati, I don’t see much of either. As it relates to infrastructure, this all depends on what your daily needs are. In my area, I can walk to most restaurants and shops and don’t worry about traffic, although a trip to see a physician or take a flight from the airport almost always requires a Grab ( Uber equivalent) ride. Finally, there is a large Catholic influence here, but it doesn’t get in the way of my daily life- I just ignore it.
Check it out sometime and let me know if I can give you any tips.
@@dr.michaellittle5611 Awesome response! Thank you.
Lots of sensible comments here. The Thai authorities couldn't care less about you if you keep your head down. Bother nobody & nobody bothers you. Don't own anything. Rent & move around from time to time. Don't flaunt your wealth. If you have a local girlfriend make sure she's as modest as you. You will never have a problem.
Thanks, dude! A certain frustration can’t be hidden but definitely understandable. My consequence: staying max 179 days p.a. in Thailand and I am out of any Thai tax issues …..
Been scraping by in KK raising a Thai family. Choking on pollution! I am with you , my thoughts exactly:)
Didn't your neighbors tell you that all the pollution comes from the neighboring countries? 🤣
Your initial instincts are correct... ignore the noise and wait for the law. US has a tax treaty with Thailand.... you won't pay any more taxes... your only fees (should the law actually come to fruition) is the cost of the accountant to prepare the return... That is the worst case scenario. Given how much money you save by living there rather than the US, the small cost and inconvenience of a prepared return is well worth the aggravation.
The mistake Expats made is to have a Thai bank account. It’s a No No.
You cannot carry bags full of cash into the country and all digital transfers is traced now.
Your thumbnails just get better and better
I agree with you 100% , i do not understand the Thai logic of wanting more foreigners to come to Thailand and making less appealing to stay in Thailand . I come in Thailand 5 months per year and i was looking at moving here .Now i am exploring other countries that are more expat friendly.
The UK and probably the US has a 'double taxation agreement' with Thailand. I believe this means that UK nationals residing in Thailand are entitled to Thai tax relief on money brought into Thailand which has already been taxed in their home countries. The amount of tax relief is equal to the amount of tax paid. If therefore foreign income tax is higher than Thai income tax, the Thai tax man gets nothing. I believe that UK tax is indeed higher, so there isn't much point in Thai tax authorities demanding tax returns from retired UK expats.
Maybe what has piqued the Thai tax authorities interest is the likelihood that there is now more untaxed foreign income being brought into the country. That's fair game for them and is probably what any recent tax changes and planned changes are aimed at. I can't see foreign credit/debit card usage being classed as income.
This rule makes perfect sense. If they are going to tax money coming in to Thailand, then using a foreign credit card is the exact same thing. You do have a tax treaty to prevent double taxation. If you don’t want to comply with the tax rules in Thailand, you can stay less than 179 days and not be subject to tax. Or you can move.
Thanks for bringing this up.🤔
Some similar things happened in Portugal which literally destroyed it's expat migration. They loved all the money coming in, the increased property values and sales.
Then their own bureaucracy started to hate the extra work and got greedy.
It just started to snowball.
But I've never heard a country treating credit card purchases as taxable income?😮
Would it be extra percentages added to all foreign credit card purchases?
The good thing is bureaucracy is famous for throwing 💩 at a fan in front of them to see what sticks on the wall behind them.😉
I will just watch and see what happens. But it these things do happen, then it's Purtugal, or Spain. It's nice to have options.
Spain has some unfavorable laws for non-EU expats. Portugal seems more welcoming (from the small bit of research I’ve done) than Spain.
@@jenniferwithey6443 Thank you for letting me know. The only thing I've read about Spain is the Pensionado Program. And I haven't done a full dive into living there. I've only been to Spain once, and that was a while ago.
@@royherron1958 Those countries have high taxes
Portugal has dropped the NHR tax scheme.
@@louis20122Very, very high taxes.
you have options, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Philippine, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore... Do not own any real estate when you retiree expat.
Many of these countries (e.g. Vietnam) lack long-term visa options.
@TruthTellerTH-k3w do not stay in one place for too long, the longer you stay the more attachment you get and collect more stuffs. Imo 6 mo is max
I can’t wrap my head around the concept of an old ex- pat obsessed with owning land/property in a foreign country, these guys probably won’t live 10 more years why would you subject yourself to a headache , when rent is so cheap in places like the Philippines and Thailand 🤷♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@keith-kb1zl 👍 the whole point is to live a stressless carefree life style. If you want own stuffs why not just stay at your orgin country right?
@@keith-kb1zl I can't wrap my head around old expats throwing their entire life savings at the first woman who pays them a disingenuous compliment! 🤣
Reminds me the "NYC Window Breaker Bandit" who broke storefronts in New York City and left stickers or business cards for window repair services at the scene.
This has made me rethink my possible plans. What's Vietnams and Philippines condo prices like? Uncertainty is not helpful so not visiting Thailand this year.
Never buy a place to live in a country where you don't have permanent permission to stay. What happens in Thailand shows that you always should make sure you can leave. What do you think will happen with the condo prices in Thailand after this, will there even be any buyers for condos made for foreigners?
Agreed
Unfortunately, Vietnam doesn't have any good long term visa options, unless of course you want to marry a Vietnamese national! 🤣
"foreign credit card usage in Thailand, if converted to Thai baht,"
Did anybody ask for an example?
I don't know what the phrase means.
If I stay in a hotel for a month and pay with a foreign card, will I have to make a declaration?
"180 days OR bringing money into Thailand" (my caps). Every tourist brings money into Thailand.
Is that "OR" a mistake 😮?
Yes very good point. They are not very good at writing unambiguous text, at least not in English. Another example is Section 5 for the LTR visa. They state income derived from previous year is tax exempt if you have LTR. But this means income derived more than 1 year ago is not tax exempt.
We can of course understand what the intention of the text is but legal instruction has to be totally clear and not subject of interpretation.
I saw the title and thought instantly, doesn't everyone have a wise card already?
Ah well that potentially answers a question for me, we didn't necessarily want to stay in one place however we were thinking of doing the 5 year visa and using Thailand as a base to go round Asia from there, I think now we will just do a few months in each country and not have a base or err towards Philippines as the base 🤷. Thanks again Ramze any more spanners you want to throw in the works 🤣🤣.
What about 🇰🇭 as a base? Seems centrally located and a 1 year tourist visa.
@BasedInBrazil simply put....Diving 😁 Philippines has some amazing dive sites, we had a 6 week holiday in Thailand 2 years ago and while we didn't think it was amazing it was perfectly adequate for us, we will likely go spend a few weeks in the Philippines to get a feel for it there and decide. Luckily we took the rose tinted glasses off years ago so nowhere is precious to us in that sense.
@@BasedInBrazil Kazakhstan?
If you think TLand follows logic when it comes to this sort of stuff (incl visa stuff too, obviously)...think again. lmao.
I learned way back in 2010 not to trust them.
No such thing as Thai logic!
If that becomes a reality, there is a good reason not to stay in Thailand during the hot and rainy seasons, if nothing else, the weather is okay in Europe at that time of the year...
Btw I just learned the ltr visa has been updated now since it wasn't selling as well they hoped to be more inclusive for more people. Little easier to get. Feel free to research it. You won't get taxed or be messed w on foreign income. Has many perks like only a 1 time yearly check in
Why should u have to file taxes in a country you don’t earn any income from?
How in the hell is using a credit card considered “income”. Do the Thais even know what the definition of income is?
If it is a remittance tax system then it would be considered a remittance......as would an ATM withdrawal
@ we aren’t Thai citizens sending money back to the family.
We have no rights in Thailand. So we don’t pay anything more than normal sales tax when we consume
Its called residence based taxation. The system used in basically every country on earth.
@ if I’m in the USA and I earn no income in the USA. I owe no taxes in the USA. Why would someone pay income taxes on no income made in the country ? And more importantly a place that gives you no rights?
Formula '543'. 5 months in thailand, 4 months elsewhere (or home country), 3 months travel around. Or combination thereof
I quit my job in June 2022. So, I don't have any "income". The returns that I get on my very modest stock portfolio are reinvested. I can prove all of this with my U.S. tax returns. I probably spend about $2,500 USD per month in Thailand.
Taxing foreign credit card usage? The monies you would use to pay your foreign credit card bill could already be subject toThai taxation. Any foeign income earned that is either exempt from Thai tax laws OR subject to Thai tax laws is the same money you would use to pay for credit card purchases in Thailand. Meaning Thailand could be taxing the same money twice. Or said differently, the monies Thailand would say are subject to taxation could be the same monies you use to pay your credit card bill on Thai purchases, So they would tax that same money once as taxable foeign earnings/monies and again if that's the monies youuse to pay your cc bill.
I don't see how they can prove your CC usage unless you volunteer it and who would do that? If they finalize taxing money just because I bring it into the country, I see that like a cover charge at a bar. You want charge me just for the privilege of doing business with you? I don't think so. There is plenty of other places to take my money.
This is the year 2025 and CRS and FATCA is in place. Don't think they cannot see this.
No Taxation without representation...we need to have a Tea party! Well, these stories have been floating around for sometime, engendering fear, uncertainty and doubt. Worry about it when it actually happens.
Never throw anchor anywhere and they can't get you.
What? That’s insane!
Planning for retirement with Thailand on top of our list.
Having here this…😮😮🤔🤔
can you do a video on the Thailand remittance tax and figuring out how much you have to pay
Out of my depth and I really don’t know enough about it.
Move to Albania (if you are American). No visa required for a full solid YEAR. And quite lax tax issues. And a quick boat ride to Italy! Or just sit tight and wait until clarification from OFFICIAL sources, someone who is a lawful legal representative once the details are determined.
Wait until what is clarified by official sources?
I’m retired here as well for the last 3 years… living off of SS and savings…I just rented a storage space for my stuff….i don’t think I should owe any tax to Thailand but if I do I’ll pay it and if they make this to difficult I’ll just go to Cambodia for 6 months of the year… my only worry is what will happen to the tai people that I love and support right now with my retirement money…… I guess Thailand doesn’t care if more of there people will be living on the streets…
There is no way to track a card payment to the revenue services.
The new tax memorandum only changes the law due to rich Thais bypassing paying taxes by holding the money for a year. The new system brings Thailand to the same taxation that most other countries follow/ My wife is Thai and lives in Canada. We get taxes on her earned money in Thailand. The only difference is what Ramze was saying about benefits. I agree that there should be something benefiting the expat for paying taxes. Perhaps a better (easier) way to citizenship or PR. The Thailand situation isn't that bad. Double Tax Treaties will help a lot although some people may be lucky. Leaving is a good option. There are still some countries that don't levy taxes on expats. It won't be Thailand but may be very suitable for you.
The law states clearly: income brought into Thailand. Doesn't matter if bank transfer, cash, credit card or whatever.
But it's not clear what they mean by income and how to prove how much of the money that is income.
@Johan654-s1f Types of income are clearly defined.
Proving it of course not.
One could argue that a withdrawal with a credit card is not income, because it is a short term credit. But thats just a loophole which will be closed if it really becomes relevant.
@@H.S.2024 What is vague?
@@H.S.2024 Damned. Take a math class 😅 180+ days required to be a tax resident.
@@H.S.2024 Which questions. List 3.
For myself it is a concern as the next few years are looking to retire in Thailand, You would think if you retired here they would make it more attractive as they provide a constant source of income in all areas and not subjected to high/low season. But they seem it ignore that sector instead all these others. You see the targeting of certain groups every year it would not take much to look at retirees first as they can provide a stable base and get rid of 90 day reporting after all they have digitized all the information anyway so what is the point of it. Great they give visa free and extended the time for Holiday makers but then to add ETA soon again why when they have other systems that do the same job and don't say others are doing so they should follow like lemmings. After all Thailand in the past was open country to enjoy yourself without any hassles.
How can you pay tax when you get credit ?
You spend money on a CREDIT card !
Right!?
Are veterans benefits subject to taxes?
That would fall under the taxation agreement and you should be fine.
Welcome to Thailand
Looks like the presentation itself was recorded, it's on YT at ua-cam.com/video/XScNGwqXQm8/v-deo.html .
To be fair, the headline newpaper report suggesting that using an overseas credit card for payments in Thailand could automatically be taxable is alarmist - it would be a question of degree - if you're using it as a loophole to pay monthly rent, make huge purchases, etc, avoiding potentially tax assessible bank transfers from US into Thailand, they might challenge this.
But then again who knows, the presenter says Thai Tax dept is making things up as they go along.
I think if anything is to come of this then we won't know until at least a few months after the deadline of March 31 tax filings. I feel it will be mostly business as per usual. But let's all hurry up and wait.
We will never know, not even in the end of this year. Even if they haven't yet enforced anything by then they can still enforce taxes for 2024 several years later.
@@Johan654-s1f We will never know???? I fairly certain it will be all over social media if people get asked to file tax returns by the govt. But the fact that we are now in the tax filing window and we are NOT hearing anything bodes well indeed. Anyone who has already paid tax on earnings OS should be alright anyway, unless the tax rate is less than Thailand then they may have to make up the difference. IE. A friend from the USA told me that as he was living abroad he didn't pay tax on the first $50K of his US earnings. He's since returned to the US but others in the same circumstance may be taxable here.
@ The problem in Thailand is that different government staff may decide things differently. So no, we will likely not know for sure what applies next year either, we will just get some information about what happened to different farangs.
And even if nothing is enforced this year, they can still come back and enforce taxation for 2024 next year. If the discover you brought in income 2024 they may demand documentation from you this year, next year or even later.
We will likely therefore never really know anything for sure. The same applies for Visa applications, different offices have different requirements.
@ Yeas, adding "for sure" completely changes your comment, but doesn't change mine. If the govt starts asking foreign residents to file tax then we will know FOR SURE. 100%.
@ No since different offices may decide differently, that is the Thai way.
I've been in Thailand since 2007 and even though they want to be known as the land of smiles, it feels more like the land of government harassment. I personally don't want to give this country any more money than I already have. If I was to receive some sort of benefits or services for paying these extra taxes such as maybe health benefits or better roads, or discounts to national parks, it might make it easier to pay, but we all know there won't be anything more than "farang, you should be happy that we let you stay in our country, now give us your money". I love most of the general population of Thais but next month I'm getting on a flight out of here and plan to be gone for at least 190 days if not longer each year.
In the next video let's all watch Uncle Ramze and his wife on an airplane heading back to the United States.😂
🤷🤔😉✌️
LoL good luck tracking credit card spending. Even the customers themselves have no idea.
Well generally it's you as a tax payer that has the burdon of proof and today they can trace credit card spendings.
There was no change to the tax law at all!
Not exactly the point. It’s the constant throwing of these ideas at the wall that causes instability.
@RamzeTravels However, tha law didn't changed. I read it.
Credit cards are not income, they only show you incurred a debt???
Agreed. What about those who pay off our credit card debt with funds that are classified exempt (non-assessable) by a DTA? I suspect that there will be a lot of cases resulting in Thailand Revenue ultimately burning its own ass.
I switched to LTR, didn't want to deal with all the uncertainty, will at least for 10 years.
Spot on
Until it gets published in the Royal Gazette…IT IS NOT THAI LAW!
What more law do you need? There is already laws saying they can tax income brought into the country. Just because they didn't enforce these laws earlier doesn't imply they cannot do it now.
@
The only action was the withdrawal of a memo…no other actions taken or policies published…and NO laws published in the Royal Gazette. No EVIDENCE of anything…just media and UA-cam commenters making pronouncements.
I was in the first batch of LTR visas. So, that's lucky.
That’s the visa to be on honestly. The rest are just different names for parole.
@@RamzeTravels No unfortunately the promise about tax exempt for LTR is not correct. Read section 5 and you will see that this exempt only income derived from previous year. I.e. if you bring in income generated this year it will be taxable this year.
@@RamzeTravels Well said. I've always felt like I was on probation or parole with the 90 day check-ins!
Just get a condo in vietnam go there half the year
You are completely spot on here. I don't want all this stress and hassle even if I can avoid all taxes. Most likely I would have to pay money to tax experts though, even though they will not be able to tell me exactly what is taxable or not.
The thing to prove when I earned my income, keep that money on separate accounts, never mix them with other money and provide documentation for all this is too much. In practice this is very hard.
Also the total lack of clear an detailed information from the official sources is not acceptable. Now we have to guess how it works, no one really knows when it comes to important details. Like what is savings, what is income. What if I have bought, sold stocks several times during the last 20 years. Do I need documentation for all transactions since beginning of time to prove exactly how much is income and how much is savings? No one can answer this, we can only guess.
I do have a LTR visa but it's typical that the information on the LTR web page about tax exempt for foreign income is incorrect. It doesn't comply with what Section 5 stipulate. This is just an example of that we don't have official information we can trust. They are also just guessing.
Ben Hart of integrity legal would like to see your work permit😂😂😂😂.
Another country that needs more income to the budget. Maybe their economy has some issues.
Excellent information ❤ thank you bro 😎
End of March is NOT in six weeks from now!
I was thinking the same thing. He probably thought tax filing is due March 1st, but that is incorrect. You are right.
Tbh I am getting the vibe from several of your videos you miss the US and Colombia.You are looking for more reasons to leave...lol..You don't need any more reasons.Go with your heart...I just came to Asia for the first time 2.5 weeks ago to Danang...People are great,love the food its beautiful here,cheap af...Just not feeling it..I am already wanting to either go back to Medellin or Vegas.I speak Spanish.So communication is a big one for me here..
I have been trying to be patient but crap like this (even if it probably never turns into anything is not helping). I suspect Thailand will end up being a great vacation destination for me in the future but not a place I invest or leave any money. Shame really.
@@RamzeTravelsHave you considered Siam Reap or Phnom Phen 🇰🇭?
Easy long-term visa as well.
Been to both and while I enjoyed the visits, the infrastructure and overall amenities are still behind Thailands for now.
Definitely an eyebrow raiser but I find it hard to believe that they have the wherewithal to chase all that down. Can you say Bitcoin...
Exactly! Although i haven’t found any easy way of spending btc in Thailand or converting some to fiat. Any thoughts? Pucket is supposedly testing it out as money soon.
No link in the description 😮.
Fixed! Thank you for pointing that out. 🙏
You guys the truth is tax is only for commerce. No contract no consent no case. Get educated on your jurisdiction as a living breathing man that doesn't need to identify with your strawman commercialised birth certificate.
As of the end of pandemic, all countries are trying get money back they was loss, Philippines making new rules so they can more money, like after 6 months in country, you need pay 18 dollars more a month, they made a visa far those online work, like youtuber to get there pay., but good for the one who didn't marred a forgien wife, can just pick up move a better deal. I thinking about Argentine, need bring my philippines wife there.
All gov. is poor now and they start to add tax for each source.😂😂
Doesn't a 10,000THB bribe at the tax office solve all of this?
🤷
This is a corruption-free country! How dare you talk like that!
😂
everybody keeps saying it's iffy. I went to the Thai website and saw it in black and white. A schedule starts at 20% and goes up from there depending on your income, simple.
It actually starts at 5% (150k-300k). It`s 10% at 300k-500k, 15% at 500k-750k, 20% at 750k-1 mill, and so on. It`s a progressive system (so you pay from all lower boxes as well), and all this is after deductions. First 150k is tax free.
If you don't like it, feel free to leave ....
Yes we can do that but we can also complain about it and inform other people about this so they can make informed decisions, and avoid these traps.
Just did that sold everything after 15 years don’t miss the bs and bad air pollution. Worlds a big place lots to visit.
Let’s go to Vietnam!
Well, 1. I haven't heard this anywhere else. 2. If so, then yeah, it's on you. You chose to be there. 3. It makes no sense so I don't think it is real. Credit cards are spending not income. If anything they would put a tariff on a U.S. CC transaction. It is otherwise impossible to manage, even by the U.S. IRS. Lastly, you live in their country, stop bitchin. My gut says you're probably a pretty god, fun dude, but perhaps you aren't coming off as that as much as you might. You have every right to be this pissed and negative if you were still here in Murica, but you are in their house. Embrace the suck. I would say sell the house to gain yourself some freedom. If ya need to bail back to the Americas, PI, E Europe or wherever, you can. It seems like Thailand is getting under your skin a bit too much. That may be a sign to move on out.
Man I always relate to you and your vids in real time. So where is better to retire. That is the question. I don't want cold weather, Spanish language , or high cost of living. Hmm .
@@davidk467 why don't you want the Spanish language?
@jbennison5672 no disrespect to the Spanish language or culture. I'm old and I'm not great with learning languages. In Thailand you don't need to speak Thai to get by. I traveled and lived for a bit in Spain and South America, it's a huge disadvantage if you don't speak or understand it .
You are limited with those qualifiers. Maybe split time in SE Asia.
@@davidk467 I see....you want somewhere where English is widely spoken.
@@RamzeTravels agreed. Thanks