A lot of you all have been saying you're having problems when playing Lidia. Have you still been enjoying her, or has those problems ruined your fun with the character? Have you tried changing your playstyle since you picked her up? Does she still feel as weird as day 1? I'm curious what your thoughts are. If you want to see more Lidia gameplay, feel free to check out my stream at twitch.tv/sesujin
I mained Lidia in t7 and I was initially disappointed with the changes to her in 8, but after about a day I adapted. I already play very neutral and punishment heavy (since I suck at memorizing combos lol) and by the second day I realized she's still good at that. She feels like a legacy version of herself, like 60% the same with some big and small differences. Anyway, glad you made this video, it should hopefully illuminate a lot about the character for people not quite getting the character.
Hey man. I like your strategy with Lidia. If you ever get some free time, would you play a match or two with me? I want to get better with Lidia. I need to improve my defense. I’m too aggressive.
Love the video. I actually have been focusing more on neutral and less on mix up, just because I'm bad at mixing people up. I'm a Jin main, and granted Jin is pretty cheap in this game, but I've been a Jin main since T5 and in T7 he was quite a defensive character, so it's just the playstyle I gravitate towards. I've actually had some success with the defensive Lidia, but I always thought that this would end as soon as I get her up to the same rank as my Jin since that's not how you're supposed to play her. So this video gives me hope that I can play her without committing to unga-bunga gameplay
@@anthonymatthews1453 I quite like her T8 rendition myself. She took a few days for me to get used to, but to me she feels like a more refined version of how she was in Tekken 7. She definitally has some issues and differences, but I feel like this time around I understand how everything is supposed to work together in her moveset, whereas in Tekken 7 it felt like she had a bunch of flaws, design issues, and scattered ideas that didn't work well together. I'm happy with her, and I'm glad you liked the video!
@@theHeavyMetalHermit Thank you! I think it's always important to keep in mind that there usually isn't a right and wrong way to play a character. There certainly more optimal ways to play characters in Tekken 8, but I think it ultimately comes down to how you play Tekken rather than the character, if that makes sense.
Genuinely invaluable info presented here, it's rare to find high level explanations behind broad play style choices like this. Thanks for the vid, earned my sub
Straightup one of the best channels to learn Lidia, it is a crime how underrated this dude is. Imo she should get a small buff to her d2 and horse1+2, make them not as minus on hit by 1or 2 frames, keep them bad but not horrendous. Side note, this playstyle fits the karate theme so good, calculated and technical
Thank you so much for the kind comment, I really appreciate it! I would love buffs to both of these moves, d2 is so good and an absolute cornerstone to Lidia's pressure but it feels absolutely terrible to use because it's -4 on hit. As for horse 1+2, I'm struggling to even find a use for this move anymore over horse 1 because it's -10. There are a few nieche situations where it's useful, but 99% of the time I'd rather just use 1, it's balanced in such a strange way.
I still think d2 is pretty good in the frame tight distance but something else you can try is the lone buffed d3, since it counter hits in this game & was useless in t7, and they even gave it follow ups in its string attached to it You can mix it up with her ff4 roundhouse, or any other mids you want, which has a follow up in this game now too as ff4,3
t8 is my first real tekken, and phi has kind of been my go to for fundamentals and how to approach learning a char. one thing i remember him saying early on is to play the char's plus frames. i took that approach to my first two characters, but all the guides on lidia are on stances and mixup options and talking about how bad her pokes are. props for bringing what the ppl need: that fucking plus frame info and how to run lidia's traps. thanks for the video.
A lot of the time, a character is what you make of them. If you focus on the stuff that's sub-par or bad (like the stances and pokes), then you won't get much out of the character. If you try to capitilize on the stong tools that a character has (like Lidia's long range tools, keepout, and plus frames), then you'll get a lot more. In Tekken 8, I remember when people were saying Yoshi was mid tier because they were focusing way too much on his shortcomings, but now that people see just how strong his damage, setups, and mixups are, many consider him top 10. I think a lot of people are saying Lidia's bad right now because there is a lot of focus on the aspects of her that are bad, but shifting that focus to what's good about her will help a lot with figuring out how to make the character work.
Definitely an interesting take on Lidia. looking forward to trying to implement some of this in my own gameplay. I think if nothing else just doing FF2 and NOT DOING ANYTHING afterwards is going to help a ton of people that are struggling with Lidia at lower levels. always trying to play the stances is as you said, just to risky.
I definitely have a weird way of playing Lidia compared to most people, and I don't even think most people should play Lidia exactly the way I play her. I play her this way because it's the most comfortable for me being a SoulCalibur player, but I think a lot of the ideas can be valuable for anyone trying to learn the character. There are many times, for example, the mixup out of ff2 is just objectively worse than doing d2 or d/f2, and getting Lidia players to think about that I hope can be a catalyst to coming up with new ideas and improving.
People on the lidia discord are really pushing the "she's designed to be played as a rushdown character" narrative. This kind of confirms a lot of suspicions I've been having. It just doesn't make sense to me that you'd make a rushdown character with such fundamentally lackluster rushdown tools
This was the same thing in T7, lidia is a strong character with *Good* rushing down, but they deviated from that after her nerfs. But, her neutral and counter hit game is insane esp if you can do mind games.
I think rushdown is a fair way to play her at most levels of play. She's kind of like Hwoarang in that way, because it's very difficult to react to and defend against her rushdown and 50/50, it becomes overwhelming for the opponent, and forcing the strategy is therefore very strong despite the mixup not being all that good (just as an example, look at how many Lidia players try forcing a mixup after CAT 1 gets blocked despite there being a 13 frame inturrupt window). At higher levels, though, this gets shut down easily by aware opponents that know the matchup. While rushdown does work, and may even be how she was designed, you will eventually hit a wall because good players will put a stop to your gameplan completely. I think that in order to improve with the character, you have to be willing to pump on the breaks a little bit and be mindful with your 50/50s to find success against these players, and I'm seeing a lot of high level/pro players like Chikurin incorporating this style of play.
Really happy that UA-cam algo has been showing me smaller channels like yours (with regards to sub count, I mean no offense by this). Thank you so much. I feel like something hasn't clicked yet between Tekken and I, and I'm not sure what it is
I really love Lidia because I'm a Shotokan Karateka myself and I they really did a great job on her to translate our Karate style in Tekken ! Her stances are real one we use a lot by practicing katas and other stuffs, her moves are very accurate as well except maybe some spectacular jumped kick she does ! I think about the 3+4 move with the 2 jumped kicks. I can identify the second one that is a jumped ura yoko geri but not the first...😅 To be honnest, it's one of the best video on Lidia game's plan on her recent release on T8. :) Your explainations are clear and make sense. I was more confident with her in T7 and I struggle with the T8 version. I know that I have a lot of work to do on the character but your point of view and explanations will change the way was I was considering her game plan. 😉To be more patient and take time to analyse the opponent actions/reactions. Many thanks for sharing ! 👍👍👍 I just followed you on Twitch as well.
Thank you so much! I can't say I've done Karate myself, but I always had an appreciation for the accuracy portrayed in Tekken's characters. I used to do wing chun and taekwondo, and when Leroy was released I was enthralled by how much deatail and accuracy there was in his moves. Funny enough, I used to play Baek, and his line "why don't you try taking up taekwondo" is what made me want to try taekwondo as a kid! Because of that, I'm always glad to see Tekken not only sticking with that, but constantly trying to improve with their portrayal of the martial art being represented. Anyway, I'm glad you found the video helpful!
Lidia's been my main and favourite character since the moment she came out in T7. Your explanation on how to approach her playstyle here is spot on and you do amazing job breaking it down. Her rush-down can only be used effectively at higher level when you've conditioned your opponent that you're actually playing defensively in scenarios where others would've continued the pressure. And she has all the tools to play defensively too. Great punishment for both normal and while-standing, nice parries and she can reach far away with some of her strings. I enjoyed your guide and even though I incorporated the defensive playstyle already, you reasurred me to stick with that style even more. Your guide was super good. Just subscribed and looking forward to more videos from you in the future. Cheers from Poland, homie! 💪🇵🇱
Dziękuję! I'm really glad you found my explination helpful! I think one thing I missed when giving my explination is that playing defensive and patient filps around how the guessing game works. What I mean by that is, if we think about doing ff2 into horse 1, the opponent has multiple options that can beat it, such as down jab; high crushing low; ducking; or even just blocking. By waiting and seeing how they respond after ff2 rather than doing horse 1, you can now instead think about the the options you have to beat however they responded to ff2. For example, if they respond with a crouch, you can think of the mixup as "I can use horse 2, horse 3, and horse 4 to beat that option." Then you can think "Ok, they haven't been attacking either, so Horse 4 will be the best option to force a mixup or hit them crouching," and go from there. This stems from the fact that your opponent always has to respond to ff2 in some way, while you don't have to do anything after ff2, which completely changes the guessing dynamic on its head. Just something I thought might be worth thinking about since you already play this way!
You are criminally underrated and really know your stuff. All those "popular" "streamer-pros" can't do it like you do. Very concise summary and analysis, not to say fight demonstration as well. You have got one more subscriber.
@@sesujinYou see, there is a good comparison for this. One can use a blu ray disc as a really bad shovel, and curse because of it, or use it in a media player to play what is on it. Your fresh take on Lidia is something like that.
That's very kind of you to do, thank you! Jun players that have strong defense and neutral absolutely terrify me, I hope you find success with this strategy
I was actually thinking about picking Lidia up in this game to have her in the pocket along with Jin and Hwoarang, and as soon as I saw the jump back out of stance, I immediately thought that she was more of a patient character than one that relies on strict rush down like how I normally play Hwoarang. I started getting into tourneys and she seems REALLY promising.
It's never a bad idea to play a character that takes you out of your comfort zone. If you play Hwoarang rushdown style, Lidia would be a great pick for improving your neutral and patience. She would also be a good counterpick for certain players that are dealing with rushdown really well and you want to mix them up a bit with a different playstyle. The biggest thing holding her back in tournament play is the amount of decision making you have to do (especially compared to other characters like Dragunov). If you don't mind that, though, she's pretty solid.
I just picked up Lidia and I’m glad I came across this video cause I was given the impression that she’s a rush down mix up character but playing her the way your explaining it makes more sense to me so ima try your style
This kind of explains why I was able to pick her up so quickly. As soon as you mentioned she’s like Tira in Soul Calibur, it helped me better understand how I have to play her. I play Tira also, granted she’s only F4 but when I play Lidia, they feel similar.
Happy to hear it helped! I'm A3 with Tira, and I when I first looked at Lidia I immediately saw the similarites between the two in gameplay philosophies, being a neutral centric character without any spectacular tools that becomes a monster when in heat/soul charge. Since I've made this video, I've gotten Lidia to GoD, and I feel that even more now.
This video...this video made me a new subscriber. Thank you. You have no idea how much this video means to me. As a Lidia main in T7, this new version had me for a loop.
Great video! Appreciate the insight and the match analysis. This is kinda how I've been playing her so far. Tough but rewarding and my neutral game needs work so this is a great way for me to practice
Thank you! I figured the match analysis was important for people to get the full picture on what I was trying to convey, so I'm glad you liked it. Lidia it definitally tough, you can't get away with anything without thinking (unlike many Tekken characters), but the damage you can dish out when you have the right reads is worth that in the right hands I think.
"Defensive/Neautral focus" Thats the best way to describe her, i went from yellow to fujin with the same thinking, i had to slow down and actually bait them into my ff2 and not just that, kept the neutral.
This is such a good breakdown of lidia. I honestly want to see more characters breakdown like this, if another ever happened I want the character to be Nina (Im hardstuck bushin and need a better understanding of her im sure)
Thank you! Unfortunately I'm not good enough to speak on other characters that aren't my main, but I'll certainly keep making videos like this in the future.
Probably the best video for play good enough lydia at good rank. But by the way, i think she’s need an buff for his juggle damage and more connexion too. Without wall or long arena, Lydia’s juggle is really weak, only if you charge attack or use Heat after tornado,,, but lydia need Heat. Juggle with lydia is clearny not necessary for me. She make better damage with Earth stance combo.
I'm a Fujin Hwoarang that didn't have much trouble getting there. I did struggle a bit on purple ranks but eventually got there. Naturally, I figured that I'd at least get to purple with Lidia, thinking that they are the same type of character. Foolish me, hardstuck in Garyu, and now I understand why. A more defensive playstyle simply makes more sense for Lidia. In fact, I've noticed that every time I played a keep away game, I'd get vastly more success, but when I tried to go on the offensive, I'd eat grass constantly.
You have to be a lot more deliberate with Lidia's offense than most other Tekken 8 characters. It makes her considerably harder to get a good handle on, and a lot of people get stuck in a rank lower than their mains and give up. However, when her playstyle clicks, she can do wonders with her playstyle. It just takes an open mind and a lot of patience.
Haven't come across your channel before. Thank you for this video. This was a perfect tutorial and explanation on how Lidia benefits from a defensive-patient playstyle. I admit, I love throwing out a hundred 50/50s in a single round but I'll take your advice and give this a try. 😂 Subscribing for more content.
Thank you so much! I hope that you can find success with this playstyle, but don't worry about giving up the 50/50s! I'm still seeing Lidias at Tekken Emperor who will dish out ff2 mixups like their life depends on it.
One of the biggest issues with the FGC is their egos. And sometimes I don't think they even realize it. They'll look at a new character and on day 1, 2, 3.. they'll act as if they've fully figured out how the character is supposed to be played and where they rank on the tier list. Get the fuck out.. No.. that's just not how it works. Akuma in T7 is a prime example of the FGC being clueless in regards to a character's potential (though some regions already knew). The character laid dormant for years before the west realized he was fucking S tier. I just wanted to preface with that because I love your approach. You didn't buy into the narrative that almost everyone else is saying that Lidia is meant to be this rushdown machine and then complain about why her options are so punishable or sidesteppable. You took a step back and tried looking at her from a different perspective and you found success. Your approach is the way the FGC needs to approach new character releases. Not going over the movelist for a day or two and then crying on Twitter for balance changes because the way you think she should be played isn't working. Great video.
Thank you! I always try to take challenges and problems with characters and find ways around it, and that's what I did with this video. I'm just glad that there are people who have seen this and were able to improve because of it.
I think alot of people are just superimposing Lidia's playstyle from T7 into T8. To my knowledge it hasn't been officially stated she's intended to play this style in this game🤷🏽♂️
I've found this to be true for many facets of the game, whether it be characters or game mechanics. There are even a lot of pro players that have said they are still struggleing to adapt to the new systems and mechanics, such as Knee. I think it's really important for everyone to try out their own style and figure out what works best for them, becuase we're all still learning.
I figured she was more of a neutral favorable character over rushdown. Only reason I thought that was a majority of her enderes didn’t really leave her close to opponent and had opponent pushed far away especially with DF 1.3. Pushes your opponent far enough away that you can breath and watch what their approach is. The main thing I find annoying though is being graves imediatly after a stance change attack like DF2
It's weird how she's designed in that way, isn't it? She's supposed to feel like a rushdown character, yet has these tools that are more suited to neutral/footsies like the d/f1,3 that you mentioned. I almost feel like they didn't have a clear idea with how they wanted Lidia to play, and the best way to play her is a bit at ends with how the devs wanted you to play her. It really makes me wonder how they're going to change her in the future.
Please do a tutorial on how to execute that legendary hard double qcf 2,2, bff 1+2 during combos , the exact timing and where to buffer it during those combos…. I’d appreciate if you teach us that step by step…. Because I think it’s essential to advance our learning, especially for less talented people….. Thanks in advance….
I never got a chance to play her in T7 and when i first picked her up i tried to play her like a rush down character and had some success, but not a lot. While in the character select screen i saw that her fighting style was karate i just dawned on me to play her like i play Kazuya (defensively) and since then I've been way more consistent in ranked
YES! It dawned on me later that Lidia has a perception and practicality problem that's similar to Kazuya. Kazuya has been seen by many people to be a rushdown character because of his wavedash, hellsweep, etc. At a high level though, you can't constantly force the 50/50s or you'll get blown up by strong players (unless you're Boa Luvb, that guy is a menace). Lidia is very much the same way, where you can force these 50/50s occasionally, but you have to be smart about it or you'll blow up and die.
I main Yoshi and have an interest in Lidia, this video is so incredibly helpful. I much prefer the defensive playstyle so I will actually give her a try now. Easiest like and sub!
I agree she shouldn't rushdown but the problem with this is she herself gets rushed down easily without any strong answers to it. She needs something, a fast counterhit high or 12 frame mid or a better high crush read. she has no panic tools, and is out ranged and damaged by other characters equivalent tools. She cant really stop opponent guess twitch ducking either bc her back1 is too slow and too short range. Df1,2 was +8 in t7 its +4 in this game. Basically she needs buffs, they pre-emptively cut her legs off cuz they didnt want to face an OP DLC twitter shitstorm.
Oh yeah she definitally has fundimental issues that are very weird from a design standpoint. I think her parries were supposed to be her main tool for solving this issue, but they kind of suck. They have slow startup, starting at frame 5, they don't do a whole lot, they're very niche in their application, and the thing that really kills it for me is that she can't parry mid kicks. I will never understand how they make a character that has a parry for literally everything besides mid kicks, it makes absolutely no sense to be and completely kills that as a defensive option. And oh man, don't get me starting on 4,3 being -14 on block for some ungodly reason.
You know what's funny. As I was learning her I noted I was getting interrupted a lot and was wondering if she's supposed to be so aggressive why can people just mash out on me (even launchers). When I started playing her more like I play Jin (more or less balanced and burst aggression) I was doing better with her. BUT Something you said let the last piece fall into place. You said she's like a SC character. I play that series too and aside from V I've been a Talim main since SC2. Lidia reminds me of SC4 Talim. She also had forced auto stances (though way worse than lidias) so I'm starting to apply THAT fighting style I used with Talim to Lidia and it's working wonders
It's funny you say that, I'm actually a Talim and Tira main in SoulCalibur. The way that her stances work is very similar to Talim's, between the risk-reward, the decision making, and how you go into them. It's how I was able to pick up on Lidia's stances and general gameplay so quickly, while most people were having trouble adjusting to it. Interestingly, when it comes to Yoshi pretty much everyone I've talked to in the SC community (and myself) thinks he plays like a SC character. He has many SoulCalibur-isms as well, such as the tech catch with NSS KIN 2, 1+2 (the move that guard breaks), flash kind of behaving like a GI, among other things. With Lidia, she has some of these too. Things like her fff2 blue spark, which is similar to Amy's 666:B, and her stacks persisting over rounds, something that is common in SC but doesn't exist at all in Tekken. It almost makes me think that Project Soul had a bit of a hand in making some of these characters. Anyway, I'm glad the comparison helped you!
@@sesujin Yeah I made the same kinda comparison when Noctis came out in 7. I'm like this dude is a SC character lol. I do a decent job separating most fighting games except for some fundamental concepts and I ran Lidia a little as a tertiary in T7. In this game I did ok with her out of the gate but being reminded of SC kinda helped fill in any cracks I had and now I'm pretty solid with the approach. I only ran Tira in SC3 as a secondary but obviously you have to know the matchups so I do understand her concepts in the other games and it makes sense. As for yoshi LOL yeah he plays like a SC character because he's also IN SC haha. I tell people all the time though, Before T8 I'd rather have fought Tekken Yoshi as much as I dislike him than SC yoshi. Except now with T8 it's like "what's the difference" I'm not sure about you but whenever I picked Lidia in ranked I played 85% mirror matches in the first 3 days. Then after that It's about 50% for me. I played one yesterday and he tried the whole super aggro thing. It worked for a few rounds if I guessed wrong but mostly I picked him apart just be being more passive and building the layers and only really inserting the aggression in the places where it could be inserted. So I think for sure in hindsight between that and all the other mirrors I've played and mostly won that Lidia isn't just all go go go
I hate that she's forced into her stances EVERY TIME she uses a move, regardless if the move hit or was blocked. Neutral game feels almost non-existent with her now. Lidia in Tekken 7 really had to condition the opponent into letting her get into her stances, and the mixup reward was a lot more in her favor. I feel like the Tekken 8 team felt that it was too difficult to use Lidia's stances, so they made all of her them forced on blocked and on hit, which left her as this mess of a character. It's pretty evident that the Tekken team wants to push stances now, since every character now has stances and all 3 new characters are stance-focused characters, at the same time they gutted the neutral tools for most characters.
I honestly think that the Tekken team saw Jim Mashima's Eddy and thought it looked good. They really wanted to make a character where you can mash one button and it will be impossible for other beginners to beat, like special style built into the character. It's absolutely at the detriment of the enjoyment of the character, though. It feels bad to do ff2 and have to do nothing after the forced stance transition, and I doubt that's how Lidia was even intended to play. They've been consistantly dropping the ball with both game design (remember when you got two heat dashes and after hitting a heat engager, and heat dashes at the end of a combo were full combo extensions) and character design. I really hope this trend doesn't continue.
10:21 for some reason the trade is leaving me at +9 instead of +14...why?| Edit: for some reasona against Asuka it doesn't leave you at +9. Will try with other characters
Yeah I've noticed only recently that if d/b3 trades with down jab political storm isn't guaranteed. If the opponent is doing this a lot, you're better off going for d/f2 or ff2 CH, though it's pretty dumb that you're only +9.
@@sesujin i was trading with standing 1 tho. But only against Asuka it'd leave me on +9. I tried against characters with different frames like Reina who is the smallest and the bears who are the biggest and leave me at +14. It might be an animation thing, I don't know
@@tipotipo1997 I just tested it and I got the same thing. Very strange, there's no reason as far as I can tell that it would be only +9. I would guess it's a bug, but regardless it's good to know!
It was pretty obvious to me that Lidia even in tekken 7 it was still more optimal to play her defensively just due to how risky her stances are, how fleshed out her poke game is & how punishable her lows were I think this aggression narrative really stained public perception around Lidia & ppl just ran with it without any proper thought beyond surface level lol
I need to find my main in Tekken: someone with panic buttons, maximum spamming style, OP and skipping neutral… and good to use when you are angry and loosing control. Who could be the good one ?😅
Unironically Yoshi. I have been playing Yoshi since I was 5, and in Tekken 8 he is what you say to a tee. He has great panic buttons with flash (of course), but also d/f2+3 for a i14 CH launching mid that high crushes. He also has proper block strings in this game with 3,2 -> DGF f1+2 -> flash, for example, so he's good for spamming. He's very strong, I've been saying he's top 1 since release, and most people are putting him in top 10. Then, finally, he quite literally does not have to play the game. With tools like flash and b3/b4, there are so many situations and forced 50/50s that every character in the game has to deal with besides Yoshi. I actually dropped my other main from Tekken 7 (Alisa) solely because I absolutely hate this game and don't want to play it, and Yoshi allows me to do that. Oh, and Yoshi's also funny, which should help if you get angry.
Imo the problem with playing defensive lidia is a combination of bad tool, stubby jab, garbadge df1, abysmal d2, overall punishable neutral lows, all tool that are important for keep out and defence, right now she is hard to play because if you play to fast, her stances are heavily counterable, so no ff2 like you pointed out, but if you slow down, well you get fucked cause this is tekken 8 and you have poor keep out. Ff2 into nothing has been working for me also, but its still ONE option in completely skewed mixup, you are gaining information, but so is your opponent. With her tools right now theres only one way to winning with lidia, and that playing better then your opponent, like tmm pointed out when playing against balckheart, you have to play better, read better, space better, execute better and have better knowledge, when there's that she works
It's really interesting because this is the same perception people had on Tira in SC6, who is also my main. And I don't think you're wrong here at all, you do have to play much better than the opponent with Lidia in order to win. Tira was considered bottom tier for a long time because of this even considered competitively unviable for a time. Having to be the better player and win neutral in an aggressive game where no one has to bother to play neutral is absurd, why work so hard when you can just play cervantes and do 66A? But the metagame progressed, Tira started shooting up the tier list, and is now considered top 10. Why? Well it turned out that having those game warping tools that only Tira had which controlled space and neutral were very strong, despite them being seen as bad compared to what other characters could do to win neutral. While, yes, you do have to be an extremely strong neutral player to get it to work, if you can control neutral you control the entire game, and that matters more than having strong lows, mixups, and approach tools (of which Tira has none). As people found that out, the way she was percieved completely changed despite her not getting any significant changes over the course of SC6. I think Lidia is in a similar situation, where she is a strange character in a new game that many people don't fully understand yet. Despite her not having tools that would normally be seen as nessasay to make a character strong, I believe that as the game progresses and people continue to play the character her strengths combined with a strong pilot will allow her to see success. Of course, time will tell, I think it's impossible to tell what way that will go right now.
Honestly, yeah. Her mix is definitally worse outside of heat, you're doing more burst damage than anything, but they both have similar fundimental strengths and weaknesses.
@@sesujin plus her strings seem to mostly be 2 hits, three hits max, it's a lot of boom, boom, boom boom, tempo. It's not some whorerang or Steve nonstop strings
That's a really interesting question. It's hard for me to say not being an asuka player, but I want to say yes. The difference is that Asuka's defense is more reliant on reads, while Lidia is a mix of reads and conditioning. With Asuka, it's probably more important that you are able to be aggressive to illicit a response from your opponent, then punish them if you know they have a tendency to respond in a certain way (like doing kick sabaki if they like doing a generic i12 d/f4 in a specific situation for example). Asuka has better tools for aggression too, like ff1 and WR1+2. Lidia is almost forced to play more defensive becuase she doesn't have tools like this, and her parries are substantially worse than Asuka's. I think that almost every character can benefit from being patient, and I think a big source for improvement for players at all levels can come from knowing when to stop being aggressive, but there are times that the optimal thing to do is be aggressive, so it really depends on yourself, your opponent, and what is happening in your game. At the very least, it's something that you can think about when reviewing your games and trying to think of new strategies to beat your opponents.
You can do it, it just takes practice! There are a lot of guides out there that tell you to drill throw breaks in practice mode, to come up with these training regiments. Honestly, that stuff's good for warm up, but doing it in a real game is where you'll actually get better at them. Throw your opponent a lot, make them mad, get them to throw you, become and embrace the online King that can't break throws. I think that real game experience is where you'll start getting so much better at throw breaks.
TL:DW Basic premise of every fighting game. Start small and conservative to see what you can get away with and gather info on your opponent. Turn up the offense when you feel you can get away with more.
I love keepout and defensive playstyle. I was sad that Lidia was supposed to be full on plus frames, 50/50, aggresion. After your video I decided to finaly buy her, thanks a lot!
I've heard a lot of people share this same sentiment. However, even if I am wrong and the rushdown 50/50 style ends up being the optimal way to play her, playing her with a defensive playstyle, the way you and I prefer, is certainly a viable stratagy. I hope you have fun with her!
I 100% agree. There are a lot of unique aspects about Lidia that are very fun, she interacts with heat in an interesting way (unlike the vast majority of T8 characters), and she a gimmick that's actually worth thinking about and playing around. They made a lot of strange balancing decisions with her though. Maybe they didn't want to accidently make her overpowered and have an outcry of people complaining (and rightly so) about a broken DLC character. Whatever the case, I'm hopeful that these issues (just like everything else with this game) will get fixed over time.
i could see your point but lidia doesn't really have a good neutral, her df1 is horrible in frames and range, her extensions arent even that good. She has absolutly 0 tracking to her right and her homings are quite lacking, her frames are ridiculous bad, idk she's just quite weak, she's only good at punishing reads
Lidia isn't a rushdown character. She is exclusively a 50/50 character. She has that 50/50 at all times. Some decent counter hits and some of the best combo damage in the game. Something like a grappler in a 2d fighter. Her neutral and defence are garbage. You will fail your mix ups sometimes but when they land, they borderline die. Not sure who thought playing rushdown with "Mrs death on block mix" was a good idea 😂
Yeah, I really think that the intention was to make her rushdown as well. If so, she's horribly designed, because she cannot function that way. She's a case of "you have to play her in a way that wasn't intended to make her work, but somehow she's still ok despite that."
Lol shes no where even close to being a rushdown character, her frames are too terrible for that. Her game revolves around the mid range, using ff+2, WR1 etc
@@sesujinthe problem is that even Lidia players don't understand she isn't a rushdown character.. nearly every Lidia I have encouraged from Tekken king has no patience and they rushdown. I don't even see -3 moves like WS1 or SS2(+0),they don't care
@@JustAnte9557 It's really unfortunate, I've seen a lot of people say they like Lidia but don't like her "rushdown playstyle." And who can blame people for playing her that way? When you have to pay $8 to lab the character that's hard to defend against, it's no wonder that you see Lidias getting away with Horse 1 into a fake Wolf mixup at high level. I'm working on an anti-Lidia guide solely because I want this perception and playstyle to die down a bit, I think it's doing more harm than good for the character.
While playing I was learning that this was likely her optimal play style. I just haven’t found a floor for it. I also don’t know the basic combos required lol
Here's a quckstart guide, including combos: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ImGG-libZQQa0da4AM85oQ3EQnMwUsQZt3hfsR4ZcbU/edit?gid=1833110662#gid=1833110662 And here's a link to the Lidia discord if you want more resources: discord.gg/NHagAusb
Even I'm having trouble playing against her and I play Lidia. It's why you see Lidia players do rushdown so much, because despite it not being good on paper, it's so overwhelming for the opponent. A couple of tips: she's weak to SSR (NOT SSL, I've seen a chart going around saying this and it's wrong), her standing moves that transition into stance are at least -12 on block except for ff2 and d/f2, and her stance transitions from CAT to WOLF stance are all unsafe on block. Oh, and you know that homing armor move she has out of horse stance that transitions into wolf? Yeah that's only +1 on block and her fastest move is i15, meaning the mixup when you block it isn't real and you can inturrupt it with any i13 or faster move (or a launcher if they don't do specifically WOLF 2).
man i disagree strength with some of your points, but i admit i need more knowledge on lidia. so what i disagree, in a week i coudl say this is the best hign ever! . so if that happens i will make a comment like now. and since you have not so much susbcribers, im in favor of suporting people like you plust you are trying a didfferent apprach with lidia. i really do hope you prove my wrong . already like and subscribe. cheers man.
Thank you! It's prefectly alright to disagree, I think everyone's a wee bit confused and trying to figure out how the charcater works. I'm just throwing my two cents in, hoping it can help someone!
@@sesujin and keep doing it i will watch your videos, believe me. i may not follow you forevere (im like that, even my favorite youtubers, i just unfollowe them to learn different stuff) but i like to suport creators that need attention and deserve to thrive. speak your thruth my friend. you wont be alone
The point is that her options is more in favor of the opponent, lidias reward vs the opponents reward if they guess right is heavily in the opponents favor
A lot of you all have been saying you're having problems when playing Lidia. Have you still been enjoying her, or has those problems ruined your fun with the character? Have you tried changing your playstyle since you picked her up? Does she still feel as weird as day 1? I'm curious what your thoughts are.
If you want to see more Lidia gameplay, feel free to check out my stream at twitch.tv/sesujin
I mained Lidia in t7 and I was initially disappointed with the changes to her in 8, but after about a day I adapted. I already play very neutral and punishment heavy (since I suck at memorizing combos lol) and by the second day I realized she's still good at that. She feels like a legacy version of herself, like 60% the same with some big and small differences. Anyway, glad you made this video, it should hopefully illuminate a lot about the character for people not quite getting the character.
Hey man. I like your strategy with Lidia. If you ever get some free time, would you play a match or two with me? I want to get better with Lidia. I need to improve my defense. I’m too aggressive.
Love the video. I actually have been focusing more on neutral and less on mix up, just because I'm bad at mixing people up. I'm a Jin main, and granted Jin is pretty cheap in this game, but I've been a Jin main since T5 and in T7 he was quite a defensive character, so it's just the playstyle I gravitate towards.
I've actually had some success with the defensive Lidia, but I always thought that this would end as soon as I get her up to the same rank as my Jin since that's not how you're supposed to play her. So this video gives me hope that I can play her without committing to unga-bunga gameplay
@@anthonymatthews1453 I quite like her T8 rendition myself. She took a few days for me to get used to, but to me she feels like a more refined version of how she was in Tekken 7. She definitally has some issues and differences, but I feel like this time around I understand how everything is supposed to work together in her moveset, whereas in Tekken 7 it felt like she had a bunch of flaws, design issues, and scattered ideas that didn't work well together. I'm happy with her, and I'm glad you liked the video!
@@theHeavyMetalHermit Thank you! I think it's always important to keep in mind that there usually isn't a right and wrong way to play a character. There certainly more optimal ways to play characters in Tekken 8, but I think it ultimately comes down to how you play Tekken rather than the character, if that makes sense.
Genuinely invaluable info presented here, it's rare to find high level explanations behind broad play style choices like this. Thanks for the vid, earned my sub
I'm really glad I could help! I'll try to do more like this in the future, I'm just not very good at coming up with ideas😅
Straightup one of the best channels to learn Lidia, it is a crime how underrated this dude is.
Imo she should get a small buff to her d2 and horse1+2, make them not as minus on hit by 1or 2 frames, keep them bad but not horrendous.
Side note, this playstyle fits the karate theme so good, calculated and technical
Thank you so much for the kind comment, I really appreciate it! I would love buffs to both of these moves, d2 is so good and an absolute cornerstone to Lidia's pressure but it feels absolutely terrible to use because it's -4 on hit. As for horse 1+2, I'm struggling to even find a use for this move anymore over horse 1 because it's -10. There are a few nieche situations where it's useful, but 99% of the time I'd rather just use 1, it's balanced in such a strange way.
I still think d2 is pretty good in the frame tight distance but something else you can try is the lone buffed d3, since it counter hits in this game & was useless in t7, and they even gave it follow ups in its string attached to it
You can mix it up with her ff4 roundhouse, or any other mids you want, which has a follow up in this game now too as ff4,3
honestly i watched this, tried a few more 'block after stance and adjust on what they do' and i instantly saw succes. Great concepts, well articulated
Thank you, I'm really glad you found it helpful!
t8 is my first real tekken, and phi has kind of been my go to for fundamentals and how to approach learning a char. one thing i remember him saying early on is to play the char's plus frames. i took that approach to my first two characters, but all the guides on lidia are on stances and mixup options and talking about how bad her pokes are. props for bringing what the ppl need: that fucking plus frame info and how to run lidia's traps. thanks for the video.
A lot of the time, a character is what you make of them. If you focus on the stuff that's sub-par or bad (like the stances and pokes), then you won't get much out of the character. If you try to capitilize on the stong tools that a character has (like Lidia's long range tools, keepout, and plus frames), then you'll get a lot more. In Tekken 8, I remember when people were saying Yoshi was mid tier because they were focusing way too much on his shortcomings, but now that people see just how strong his damage, setups, and mixups are, many consider him top 10. I think a lot of people are saying Lidia's bad right now because there is a lot of focus on the aspects of her that are bad, but shifting that focus to what's good about her will help a lot with figuring out how to make the character work.
@@sesujinor moon loop😊 ok I’m😊 no😊m I’m op m 😝 mk😊o mom moo lol oo😊o ok ok
Ko
Dudeeee you’re awesome for this! You’ve really changed my perspective on how to be more defensively conscious on this character.
Thank you, I'm glad I could help!
Definitely an interesting take on Lidia. looking forward to trying to implement some of this in my own gameplay. I think if nothing else just doing FF2 and NOT DOING ANYTHING afterwards is going to help a ton of people that are struggling with Lidia at lower levels. always trying to play the stances is as you said, just to risky.
I definitely have a weird way of playing Lidia compared to most people, and I don't even think most people should play Lidia exactly the way I play her. I play her this way because it's the most comfortable for me being a SoulCalibur player, but I think a lot of the ideas can be valuable for anyone trying to learn the character. There are many times, for example, the mixup out of ff2 is just objectively worse than doing d2 or d/f2, and getting Lidia players to think about that I hope can be a catalyst to coming up with new ideas and improving.
People on the lidia discord are really pushing the "she's designed to be played as a rushdown character" narrative. This kind of confirms a lot of suspicions I've been having. It just doesn't make sense to me that you'd make a rushdown character with such fundamentally lackluster rushdown tools
Tekken devs also presented her as such, they don't seem to always know what they're doing or how to communicate
@@NYG5📠
This was the same thing in T7, lidia is a strong character with *Good* rushing down, but they deviated from that after her nerfs. But, her neutral and counter hit game is insane esp if you can do mind games.
I think rushdown is a fair way to play her at most levels of play. She's kind of like Hwoarang in that way, because it's very difficult to react to and defend against her rushdown and 50/50, it becomes overwhelming for the opponent, and forcing the strategy is therefore very strong despite the mixup not being all that good (just as an example, look at how many Lidia players try forcing a mixup after CAT 1 gets blocked despite there being a 13 frame inturrupt window). At higher levels, though, this gets shut down easily by aware opponents that know the matchup. While rushdown does work, and may even be how she was designed, you will eventually hit a wall because good players will put a stop to your gameplan completely. I think that in order to improve with the character, you have to be willing to pump on the breaks a little bit and be mindful with your 50/50s to find success against these players, and I'm seeing a lot of high level/pro players like Chikurin incorporating this style of play.
Well your first problem was listening to the Lidia discord they're a buncha dumb fucks.
Really happy that UA-cam algo has been showing me smaller channels like yours (with regards to sub count, I mean no offense by this). Thank you so much. I feel like something hasn't clicked yet between Tekken and I, and I'm not sure what it is
Thank you for the nice comment, I appreciate it!
Your
videos have actually really helped me and I appreciate you hugely! At the same time I knew exactly what your custom would be by looking at you xD
I really love Lidia because I'm a Shotokan Karateka myself and I they really did a great job on her to translate our Karate style in Tekken ! Her stances are real one we use a lot by practicing katas and other stuffs, her moves are very accurate as well except maybe some spectacular jumped kick she does ! I think about the 3+4 move with the 2 jumped kicks. I can identify the second one that is a jumped ura yoko geri but not the first...😅
To be honnest, it's one of the best video on Lidia game's plan on her recent release on T8. :) Your explainations are clear and make sense.
I was more confident with her in T7 and I struggle with the T8 version. I know that I have a lot of work to do on the character but your point of view and explanations will change the way was I was considering her game plan. 😉To be more patient and take time to analyse the opponent actions/reactions. Many thanks for sharing ! 👍👍👍 I just followed you on Twitch as well.
Thank you so much! I can't say I've done Karate myself, but I always had an appreciation for the accuracy portrayed in Tekken's characters. I used to do wing chun and taekwondo, and when Leroy was released I was enthralled by how much deatail and accuracy there was in his moves. Funny enough, I used to play Baek, and his line "why don't you try taking up taekwondo" is what made me want to try taekwondo as a kid! Because of that, I'm always glad to see Tekken not only sticking with that, but constantly trying to improve with their portrayal of the martial art being represented. Anyway, I'm glad you found the video helpful!
Lidia's been my main and favourite character since the moment she came out in T7. Your explanation on how to approach her playstyle here is spot on and you do amazing job breaking it down. Her rush-down can only be used effectively at higher level when you've conditioned your opponent that you're actually playing defensively in scenarios where others would've continued the pressure. And she has all the tools to play defensively too. Great punishment for both normal and while-standing, nice parries and she can reach far away with some of her strings.
I enjoyed your guide and even though I incorporated the defensive playstyle already, you reasurred me to stick with that style even more. Your guide was super good. Just subscribed and looking forward to more videos from you in the future.
Cheers from Poland, homie! 💪🇵🇱
Dziękuję! I'm really glad you found my explination helpful! I think one thing I missed when giving my explination is that playing defensive and patient filps around how the guessing game works. What I mean by that is, if we think about doing ff2 into horse 1, the opponent has multiple options that can beat it, such as down jab; high crushing low; ducking; or even just blocking. By waiting and seeing how they respond after ff2 rather than doing horse 1, you can now instead think about the the options you have to beat however they responded to ff2. For example, if they respond with a crouch, you can think of the mixup as "I can use horse 2, horse 3, and horse 4 to beat that option." Then you can think "Ok, they haven't been attacking either, so Horse 4 will be the best option to force a mixup or hit them crouching," and go from there. This stems from the fact that your opponent always has to respond to ff2 in some way, while you don't have to do anything after ff2, which completely changes the guessing dynamic on its head. Just something I thought might be worth thinking about since you already play this way!
You are criminally underrated and really know your stuff. All those "popular" "streamer-pros" can't do it like you do. Very concise summary and analysis, not to say fight demonstration as well. You have got one more subscriber.
Thank you, I really appreciate that! I'm still learning though, I'm just glad that so many people have found this video helpful.
@@sesujinYou see, there is a good comparison for this. One can use a blu ray disc as a really bad shovel, and curse because of it, or use it in a media player to play what is on it. Your fresh take on Lidia is something like that.
As a new Lidia player this analysis is super valuable. Would love to see more analysis videos like these please
I'm planning on doing one on Yoshi sometime in the near future. More Lidia videos are, of course, coming as fast as I can make them.
Thanks Buddy Its Help me alot She is my Main since T7
I'm glad I could help!
I dont main lidia but heres an algorythm comment because you changed my view on her. Can prolly still apply the same principles on my Jun👍
That's very kind of you to do, thank you! Jun players that have strong defense and neutral absolutely terrify me, I hope you find success with this strategy
My third eye has been opened.
I was actually thinking about picking Lidia up in this game to have her in the pocket along with Jin and Hwoarang, and as soon as I saw the jump back out of stance, I immediately thought that she was more of a patient character than one that relies on strict rush down like how I normally play Hwoarang. I started getting into tourneys and she seems REALLY promising.
It's never a bad idea to play a character that takes you out of your comfort zone. If you play Hwoarang rushdown style, Lidia would be a great pick for improving your neutral and patience. She would also be a good counterpick for certain players that are dealing with rushdown really well and you want to mix them up a bit with a different playstyle. The biggest thing holding her back in tournament play is the amount of decision making you have to do (especially compared to other characters like Dragunov). If you don't mind that, though, she's pretty solid.
I just picked up Lidia and I’m glad I came across this video cause I was given the impression that she’s a rush down mix up character but playing her the way your explaining it makes more sense to me so ima try your style
Good luck, I really hope this style of play works for you!
Super informative content, that's really great!
This kind of explains why I was able to pick her up so quickly. As soon as you mentioned she’s like Tira in Soul Calibur, it helped me better understand how I have to play her. I play Tira also, granted she’s only F4 but when I play Lidia, they feel similar.
Happy to hear it helped! I'm A3 with Tira, and I when I first looked at Lidia I immediately saw the similarites between the two in gameplay philosophies, being a neutral centric character without any spectacular tools that becomes a monster when in heat/soul charge. Since I've made this video, I've gotten Lidia to GoD, and I feel that even more now.
This video...this video made me a new subscriber. Thank you. You have no idea how much this video means to me. As a Lidia main in T7, this new version had me for a loop.
Thank you, I'm really happy that you liked the video!
Great video! Appreciate the insight and the match analysis. This is kinda how I've been playing her so far. Tough but rewarding and my neutral game needs work so this is a great way for me to practice
Thank you! I figured the match analysis was important for people to get the full picture on what I was trying to convey, so I'm glad you liked it. Lidia it definitally tough, you can't get away with anything without thinking (unlike many Tekken characters), but the damage you can dish out when you have the right reads is worth that in the right hands I think.
@@sesujin I can agree with ya there!
"Defensive/Neautral focus" Thats the best way to describe her, i went from yellow to fujin with the same thinking, i had to slow down and actually bait them into my ff2 and not just that, kept the neutral.
Congrats man! Yellow to fujin is a huge leap, keep it up!
@sesujin Oh yeah I plan getting Kishin soon, but, they amount of win streaks/winning in general is insane😭
9:44 mf has taught me how to reach Fujin in 30 seconds. Thank you very much man, amazing advice. This one is the knowledge check pinnacle
This is such a good breakdown of lidia. I honestly want to see more characters breakdown like this, if another ever happened I want the character to be Nina (Im hardstuck bushin and need a better understanding of her im sure)
Thank you! Unfortunately I'm not good enough to speak on other characters that aren't my main, but I'll certainly keep making videos like this in the future.
Thanx for your effort and passion, I’ve learned. Useful content. GG
No problem, I'm glad I could help!
I've been playing her all wrong, this is so helpful. Thanks Ezra Miller!
this is the best information i’ve seen over even anakins and im at the 10 minute mark. good shit bruh
It's damn hard to top Anakin, so I'll take it. Thank you!
Anakin just isn't as ... Structured as yours. You absolutely are the superior teacher in my opinion
@@YaGirlGumption That's so nice, thank you!
you earned a sub buddy, keep it up!
Thank you!
bro youre so wise! subbed!
That's really nice of you, thank you!
Probably the best video for play good enough lydia at good rank.
But by the way, i think she’s need an buff for his juggle damage and more connexion too. Without wall or long arena, Lydia’s juggle is really weak, only if you charge attack or use Heat after tornado,,, but lydia need Heat. Juggle with lydia is clearny not necessary for me. She make better damage with Earth stance combo.
This made me buy Lidia cuz she sounds so much more engaging to play than the other chars i was lookin at
I'm a Fujin Hwoarang that didn't have much trouble getting there. I did struggle a bit on purple ranks but eventually got there. Naturally, I figured that I'd at least get to purple with Lidia, thinking that they are the same type of character.
Foolish me, hardstuck in Garyu, and now I understand why. A more defensive playstyle simply makes more sense for Lidia. In fact, I've noticed that every time I played a keep away game, I'd get vastly more success, but when I tried to go on the offensive, I'd eat grass constantly.
You have to be a lot more deliberate with Lidia's offense than most other Tekken 8 characters. It makes her considerably harder to get a good handle on, and a lot of people get stuck in a rank lower than their mains and give up. However, when her playstyle clicks, she can do wonders with her playstyle. It just takes an open mind and a lot of patience.
Haven't come across your channel before. Thank you for this video. This was a perfect tutorial and explanation on how Lidia benefits from a defensive-patient playstyle.
I admit, I love throwing out a hundred 50/50s in a single round but I'll take your advice and give this a try. 😂
Subscribing for more content.
Thank you so much! I hope that you can find success with this playstyle, but don't worry about giving up the 50/50s! I'm still seeing Lidias at Tekken Emperor who will dish out ff2 mixups like their life depends on it.
Teaching keepout in T8, love to see it
There are so many people saying "I should press forward," yet no one is saying "I should stop them from pressing forward."
good stuff here, very informative and a great way to play Lidia. 👍
Thank you!
Damn, I never expected to see a Tekken player who actually played serious Soulcalibur before lol. Really reframes how I look at Lidia.
One of the biggest issues with the FGC is their egos. And sometimes I don't think they even realize it. They'll look at a new character and on day 1, 2, 3.. they'll act as if they've fully figured out how the character is supposed to be played and where they rank on the tier list. Get the fuck out.. No.. that's just not how it works. Akuma in T7 is a prime example of the FGC being clueless in regards to a character's potential (though some regions already knew). The character laid dormant for years before the west realized he was fucking S tier.
I just wanted to preface with that because I love your approach. You didn't buy into the narrative that almost everyone else is saying that Lidia is meant to be this rushdown machine and then complain about why her options are so punishable or sidesteppable. You took a step back and tried looking at her from a different perspective and you found success.
Your approach is the way the FGC needs to approach new character releases. Not going over the movelist for a day or two and then crying on Twitter for balance changes because the way you think she should be played isn't working.
Great video.
Thank you! I always try to take challenges and problems with characters and find ways around it, and that's what I did with this video. I'm just glad that there are people who have seen this and were able to improve because of it.
I think alot of people are just superimposing Lidia's playstyle from T7 into T8. To my knowledge it hasn't been officially stated she's intended to play this style in this game🤷🏽♂️
I've found this to be true for many facets of the game, whether it be characters or game mechanics. There are even a lot of pro players that have said they are still struggleing to adapt to the new systems and mechanics, such as Knee. I think it's really important for everyone to try out their own style and figure out what works best for them, becuase we're all still learning.
Lol, I also main Tira and I'm now realizing why Lidia came to me so easily.
I figured she was more of a neutral favorable character over rushdown. Only reason I thought that was a majority of her enderes didn’t really leave her close to opponent and had opponent pushed far away especially with DF 1.3. Pushes your opponent far enough away that you can breath and watch what their approach is. The main thing I find annoying though is being graves imediatly after a stance change attack like DF2
It's weird how she's designed in that way, isn't it? She's supposed to feel like a rushdown character, yet has these tools that are more suited to neutral/footsies like the d/f1,3 that you mentioned. I almost feel like they didn't have a clear idea with how they wanted Lidia to play, and the best way to play her is a bit at ends with how the devs wanted you to play her. It really makes me wonder how they're going to change her in the future.
Please do a tutorial on how to execute that legendary hard double qcf 2,2, bff 1+2 during combos , the exact timing and where to buffer it during those combos…. I’d appreciate if you teach us that step by step…. Because I think it’s essential to advance our learning, especially for less talented people…..
Thanks in advance….
I never got a chance to play her in T7 and when i first picked her up i tried to play her like a rush down character and had some success, but not a lot.
While in the character select screen i saw that her fighting style was karate i just dawned on me to play her like i play Kazuya (defensively) and since then I've been way more consistent in ranked
YES! It dawned on me later that Lidia has a perception and practicality problem that's similar to Kazuya. Kazuya has been seen by many people to be a rushdown character because of his wavedash, hellsweep, etc. At a high level though, you can't constantly force the 50/50s or you'll get blown up by strong players (unless you're Boa Luvb, that guy is a menace). Lidia is very much the same way, where you can force these 50/50s occasionally, but you have to be smart about it or you'll blow up and die.
I main Yoshi and have an interest in Lidia, this video is so incredibly helpful. I much prefer the defensive playstyle so I will actually give her a try now. Easiest like and sub!
Thank you! I need to get more Yoshi videos on here, I've been slacking the last few weeks😅
I agree she shouldn't rushdown but the problem with this is she herself gets rushed down easily without any strong answers to it. She needs something, a fast counterhit high or 12 frame mid or a better high crush read. she has no panic tools, and is out ranged and damaged by other characters equivalent tools. She cant really stop opponent guess twitch ducking either bc her back1 is too slow and too short range. Df1,2 was +8 in t7 its +4 in this game. Basically she needs buffs, they pre-emptively cut her legs off cuz they didnt want to face an OP DLC twitter shitstorm.
Oh yeah she definitally has fundimental issues that are very weird from a design standpoint. I think her parries were supposed to be her main tool for solving this issue, but they kind of suck. They have slow startup, starting at frame 5, they don't do a whole lot, they're very niche in their application, and the thing that really kills it for me is that she can't parry mid kicks. I will never understand how they make a character that has a parry for literally everything besides mid kicks, it makes absolutely no sense to be and completely kills that as a defensive option. And oh man, don't get me starting on 4,3 being -14 on block for some ungodly reason.
I've been a Lidia main since TK7 and honestly i struggled to get out of certain ranks with her. Maybe guide this will help me get out of purple ranks
I just got tekken king with her last night, im very happy
Congrats! That's a huge milestone, especially with a new character. Definitely something to be proud of!
You know what's funny. As I was learning her I noted I was getting interrupted a lot and was wondering if she's supposed to be so aggressive why can people just mash out on me (even launchers). When I started playing her more like I play Jin (more or less balanced and burst aggression) I was doing better with her. BUT Something you said let the last piece fall into place. You said she's like a SC character. I play that series too and aside from V I've been a Talim main since SC2.
Lidia reminds me of SC4 Talim. She also had forced auto stances (though way worse than lidias) so I'm starting to apply THAT fighting style I used with Talim to Lidia and it's working wonders
It's funny you say that, I'm actually a Talim and Tira main in SoulCalibur. The way that her stances work is very similar to Talim's, between the risk-reward, the decision making, and how you go into them. It's how I was able to pick up on Lidia's stances and general gameplay so quickly, while most people were having trouble adjusting to it.
Interestingly, when it comes to Yoshi pretty much everyone I've talked to in the SC community (and myself) thinks he plays like a SC character. He has many SoulCalibur-isms as well, such as the tech catch with NSS KIN 2, 1+2 (the move that guard breaks), flash kind of behaving like a GI, among other things. With Lidia, she has some of these too. Things like her fff2 blue spark, which is similar to Amy's 666:B, and her stacks persisting over rounds, something that is common in SC but doesn't exist at all in Tekken. It almost makes me think that Project Soul had a bit of a hand in making some of these characters.
Anyway, I'm glad the comparison helped you!
@@sesujin Yeah I made the same kinda comparison when Noctis came out in 7. I'm like this dude is a SC character lol. I do a decent job separating most fighting games except for some fundamental concepts and I ran Lidia a little as a tertiary in T7. In this game I did ok with her out of the gate but being reminded of SC kinda helped fill in any cracks I had and now I'm pretty solid with the approach.
I only ran Tira in SC3 as a secondary but obviously you have to know the matchups so I do understand her concepts in the other games and it makes sense. As for yoshi LOL yeah he plays like a SC character because he's also IN SC haha. I tell people all the time though, Before T8 I'd rather have fought Tekken Yoshi as much as I dislike him than SC yoshi. Except now with T8 it's like "what's the difference"
I'm not sure about you but whenever I picked Lidia in ranked I played 85% mirror matches in the first 3 days. Then after that It's about 50% for me. I played one yesterday and he tried the whole super aggro thing. It worked for a few rounds if I guessed wrong but mostly I picked him apart just be being more passive and building the layers and only really inserting the aggression in the places where it could be inserted. So I think for sure in hindsight between that and all the other mirrors I've played and mostly won that Lidia isn't just all go go go
I hear Lidia and Yoshimitsu, the same 2 characters i love to play, so have a subscribe on both platforms and a like good sir.
Thank you! The Polish Manji clan is united and strong!
I hate that she's forced into her stances EVERY TIME she uses a move, regardless if the move hit or was blocked. Neutral game feels almost non-existent with her now. Lidia in Tekken 7 really had to condition the opponent into letting her get into her stances, and the mixup reward was a lot more in her favor. I feel like the Tekken 8 team felt that it was too difficult to use Lidia's stances, so they made all of her them forced on blocked and on hit, which left her as this mess of a character. It's pretty evident that the Tekken team wants to push stances now, since every character now has stances and all 3 new characters are stance-focused characters, at the same time they gutted the neutral tools for most characters.
I honestly think that the Tekken team saw Jim Mashima's Eddy and thought it looked good. They really wanted to make a character where you can mash one button and it will be impossible for other beginners to beat, like special style built into the character. It's absolutely at the detriment of the enjoyment of the character, though. It feels bad to do ff2 and have to do nothing after the forced stance transition, and I doubt that's how Lidia was even intended to play. They've been consistantly dropping the ball with both game design (remember when you got two heat dashes and after hitting a heat engager, and heat dashes at the end of a combo were full combo extensions) and character design. I really hope this trend doesn't continue.
10:21 for some reason the trade is leaving me at +9 instead of +14...why?|
Edit: for some reasona against Asuka it doesn't leave you at +9. Will try with other characters
Yeah I've noticed only recently that if d/b3 trades with down jab political storm isn't guaranteed. If the opponent is doing this a lot, you're better off going for d/f2 or ff2 CH, though it's pretty dumb that you're only +9.
@@sesujin i was trading with standing 1 tho. But only against Asuka it'd leave me on +9. I tried against characters with different frames like Reina who is the smallest and the bears who are the biggest and leave me at +14. It might be an animation thing, I don't know
@@tipotipo1997 I just tested it and I got the same thing. Very strange, there's no reason as far as I can tell that it would be only +9. I would guess it's a bug, but regardless it's good to know!
I am starting to have success whiff punishing and jab pressure.
I still have some trouble whiff punishing personally, but when I started using b3 it helped me out a ton
Watched 5 minutes and went on a 9 win streak. Thanks
Hell yeah, congrats!
Best video❤
Thank you
It was pretty obvious to me that Lidia even in tekken 7 it was still more optimal to play her defensively just due to how risky her stances are, how fleshed out her poke game is & how punishable her lows were
I think this aggression narrative really stained public perception around Lidia & ppl just ran with it without any proper thought beyond surface level lol
I need to find my main in Tekken: someone with panic buttons, maximum spamming style, OP and skipping neutral… and good to use when you are angry and loosing control. Who could be the good one ?😅
Unironically Yoshi. I have been playing Yoshi since I was 5, and in Tekken 8 he is what you say to a tee. He has great panic buttons with flash (of course), but also d/f2+3 for a i14 CH launching mid that high crushes. He also has proper block strings in this game with 3,2 -> DGF f1+2 -> flash, for example, so he's good for spamming. He's very strong, I've been saying he's top 1 since release, and most people are putting him in top 10. Then, finally, he quite literally does not have to play the game. With tools like flash and b3/b4, there are so many situations and forced 50/50s that every character in the game has to deal with besides Yoshi. I actually dropped my other main from Tekken 7 (Alisa) solely because I absolutely hate this game and don't want to play it, and Yoshi allows me to do that. Oh, and Yoshi's also funny, which should help if you get angry.
Imo the problem with playing defensive lidia is a combination of bad tool, stubby jab, garbadge df1, abysmal d2, overall punishable neutral lows, all tool that are important for keep out and defence, right now she is hard to play because if you play to fast, her stances are heavily counterable, so no ff2 like you pointed out, but if you slow down, well you get fucked cause this is tekken 8 and you have poor keep out. Ff2 into nothing has been working for me also, but its still ONE option in completely skewed mixup, you are gaining information, but so is your opponent. With her tools right now theres only one way to winning with lidia, and that playing better then your opponent, like tmm pointed out when playing against balckheart, you have to play better, read better, space better, execute better and have better knowledge, when there's that she works
It's really interesting because this is the same perception people had on Tira in SC6, who is also my main. And I don't think you're wrong here at all, you do have to play much better than the opponent with Lidia in order to win. Tira was considered bottom tier for a long time because of this even considered competitively unviable for a time. Having to be the better player and win neutral in an aggressive game where no one has to bother to play neutral is absurd, why work so hard when you can just play cervantes and do 66A? But the metagame progressed, Tira started shooting up the tier list, and is now considered top 10. Why? Well it turned out that having those game warping tools that only Tira had which controlled space and neutral were very strong, despite them being seen as bad compared to what other characters could do to win neutral. While, yes, you do have to be an extremely strong neutral player to get it to work, if you can control neutral you control the entire game, and that matters more than having strong lows, mixups, and approach tools (of which Tira has none). As people found that out, the way she was percieved completely changed despite her not getting any significant changes over the course of SC6. I think Lidia is in a similar situation, where she is a strange character in a new game that many people don't fully understand yet. Despite her not having tools that would normally be seen as nessasay to make a character strong, I believe that as the game progresses and people continue to play the character her strengths combined with a strong pilot will allow her to see success. Of course, time will tell, I think it's impossible to tell what way that will go right now.
So you take Kaz, remove his lows and give him more neutral tools and some stance options
Less mix, more conditioning/defense.
Honestly, yeah. Her mix is definitally worse outside of heat, you're doing more burst damage than anything, but they both have similar fundimental strengths and weaknesses.
@@sesujin plus her strings seem to mostly be 2 hits, three hits max, it's a lot of boom, boom, boom boom, tempo. It's not some whorerang or Steve nonstop strings
Can you also play Asuka like this too? Given she has great parrys and keep out moves?
That's a really interesting question. It's hard for me to say not being an asuka player, but I want to say yes. The difference is that Asuka's defense is more reliant on reads, while Lidia is a mix of reads and conditioning. With Asuka, it's probably more important that you are able to be aggressive to illicit a response from your opponent, then punish them if you know they have a tendency to respond in a certain way (like doing kick sabaki if they like doing a generic i12 d/f4 in a specific situation for example). Asuka has better tools for aggression too, like ff1 and WR1+2. Lidia is almost forced to play more defensive becuase she doesn't have tools like this, and her parries are substantially worse than Asuka's. I think that almost every character can benefit from being patient, and I think a big source for improvement for players at all levels can come from knowing when to stop being aggressive, but there are times that the optimal thing to do is be aggressive, so it really depends on yourself, your opponent, and what is happening in your game. At the very least, it's something that you can think about when reviewing your games and trying to think of new strategies to beat your opponents.
Nice answer! I think it’s very sound advice.
throw escape maxed out. i'm so jealous
You can do it, it just takes practice! There are a lot of guides out there that tell you to drill throw breaks in practice mode, to come up with these training regiments. Honestly, that stuff's good for warm up, but doing it in a real game is where you'll actually get better at them. Throw your opponent a lot, make them mad, get them to throw you, become and embrace the online King that can't break throws. I think that real game experience is where you'll start getting so much better at throw breaks.
really good info thanks!
Also her combos are dumb fun lol
Glad I could help! I really love the blue sparks on her combos!
TL:DW
Basic premise of every fighting game. Start small and conservative to see what you can get away with and gather info on your opponent. Turn up the offense when you feel you can get away with more.
Pretty much this, I would just add don't give in to the ff2 temptation!
I love keepout and defensive playstyle. I was sad that Lidia was supposed to be full on plus frames, 50/50, aggresion.
After your video I decided to finaly buy her, thanks a lot!
I've heard a lot of people share this same sentiment. However, even if I am wrong and the rushdown 50/50 style ends up being the optimal way to play her, playing her with a defensive playstyle, the way you and I prefer, is certainly a viable stratagy. I hope you have fun with her!
running one is plus 5 on block
what a brilliant fucking video. You deserve all those subs you've obtained including my own.
Thank you, I'm glad you liked it!
Dude you mentioning SC seriously clicked in my head. She is a SC character and she is like Tira who I also main lol. FF2 is jolly 6B
OH MY GOD ANOTHER TIRA MAIN! This is the same connection I made too, ff2 is just like doing 6B, 6B, 6B, 6BK CH into ringout😄
@@sesujin yaaass caught many of ppl from that as well.
fun char but feel like alot design flaws compare other characters
I 100% agree. There are a lot of unique aspects about Lidia that are very fun, she interacts with heat in an interesting way (unlike the vast majority of T8 characters), and she a gimmick that's actually worth thinking about and playing around. They made a lot of strange balancing decisions with her though. Maybe they didn't want to accidently make her overpowered and have an outcry of people complaining (and rightly so) about a broken DLC character. Whatever the case, I'm hopeful that these issues (just like everything else with this game) will get fixed over time.
I can't figure out where you from from your accent.
I'm from Michigan (no one here believes I'm from Michigan though)
i could see your point but lidia doesn't really have a good neutral, her df1 is horrible in frames and range, her extensions arent even that good. She has absolutly 0 tracking to her right and her homings are quite lacking, her frames are ridiculous bad, idk she's just quite weak, she's only good at punishing reads
Her 3, 2 needs to be 14 frames at least
Harada is not going to like this anti-aggression propaganda video.
I have waged a personal war against Harada's vision, the more I push this propoganda the more I succeed.
Lidia isn't a rushdown character. She is exclusively a 50/50 character. She has that 50/50 at all times. Some decent counter hits and some of the best combo damage in the game. Something like a grappler in a 2d fighter. Her neutral and defence are garbage.
You will fail your mix ups sometimes but when they land, they borderline die. Not sure who thought playing rushdown with "Mrs death on block mix" was a good idea 😂
Yeah, I really think that the intention was to make her rushdown as well. If so, she's horribly designed, because she cannot function that way. She's a case of "you have to play her in a way that wasn't intended to make her work, but somehow she's still ok despite that."
Lol shes no where even close to being a rushdown character, her frames are too terrible for that.
Her game revolves around the mid range, using ff+2, WR1 etc
I completely agree, but man I've been seeing a lot of people saying she's rushdown and playing her like a rushdown character, even at god ranks.
@@sesujinthe problem is that even Lidia players don't understand she isn't a rushdown character.. nearly every Lidia I have encouraged from Tekken king has no patience and they rushdown. I don't even see -3 moves like WS1 or SS2(+0),they don't care
@@JustAnte9557 It's really unfortunate, I've seen a lot of people say they like Lidia but don't like her "rushdown playstyle." And who can blame people for playing her that way? When you have to pay $8 to lab the character that's hard to defend against, it's no wonder that you see Lidias getting away with Horse 1 into a fake Wolf mixup at high level. I'm working on an anti-Lidia guide solely because I want this perception and playstyle to die down a bit, I think it's doing more harm than good for the character.
Give her 1,1 back and shes fixed.
if u play lidia in the t7 style, you will be destroyed in ranked, i had to re-learn to play with her
Isn't a tekken 8 character. In Tekken 8 that's a problem! Especially in the current state.
I hope it's indicative of character and system changes coming in Season 2, but that's just me being optimistic
@@sesujin let us pray 😅
Let them be greedy, it is very punishable, i like it.
I think the Lidia discord needs to watch this and stop smelling their own farts.
999 like, hell yea
While playing I was learning that this was likely her optimal play style. I just haven’t found a floor for it.
I also don’t know the basic combos required lol
Here's a quckstart guide, including combos: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ImGG-libZQQa0da4AM85oQ3EQnMwUsQZt3hfsR4ZcbU/edit?gid=1833110662#gid=1833110662
And here's a link to the Lidia discord if you want more resources: discord.gg/NHagAusb
@@sesujin big thanks, it’s been uphill but I’m finally seeing light lol
Tekken un a nutshell wait the waitting fighting game
?
Even watching her gameplay is pain to the eyes. Struggle to watch it. Clunky and stiff
Struggling. This character is a nightmare to fight.
Picture your fighting a lars without lows. Just find the "fake pressure" points between her stsnce changes and push her shit in
Even I'm having trouble playing against her and I play Lidia. It's why you see Lidia players do rushdown so much, because despite it not being good on paper, it's so overwhelming for the opponent. A couple of tips: she's weak to SSR (NOT SSL, I've seen a chart going around saying this and it's wrong), her standing moves that transition into stance are at least -12 on block except for ff2 and d/f2, and her stance transitions from CAT to WOLF stance are all unsafe on block. Oh, and you know that homing armor move she has out of horse stance that transitions into wolf? Yeah that's only +1 on block and her fastest move is i15, meaning the mixup when you block it isn't real and you can inturrupt it with any i13 or faster move (or a launcher if they don't do specifically WOLF 2).
sesujin
man i disagree strength with some of your points, but i admit i need more knowledge on lidia. so what i disagree, in a week i coudl say this is the best hign ever! . so if that happens i will make a comment like now. and since you have not so much susbcribers, im in favor of suporting people like you plust you are trying a didfferent apprach with lidia. i really do hope you prove my wrong . already like and subscribe. cheers man.
Thank you! It's prefectly alright to disagree, I think everyone's a wee bit confused and trying to figure out how the charcater works. I'm just throwing my two cents in, hoping it can help someone!
@@sesujin and keep doing it i will watch your videos, believe me. i may not follow you forevere (im like that, even my favorite youtubers, i just unfollowe them to learn different stuff) but i like to suport creators that need attention and deserve to thrive. speak your thruth my friend. you wont be alone
I cant practice against her.
So f*** this character and this game
If your on PC use CreamAPI to unlock her in practice mode. It's bullshit that people have to pay $8 to lab DLC.
No she is way too overpowered 😂
guy is talking like any opponent will simultaneously counter every option all the time omegalul
The point is that her options is more in favor of the opponent, lidias reward vs the opponents reward if they guess right is heavily in the opponents favor