Diablo IV - Dark Shroud and Enshrouding Aspect - Are they worth it? - Rogue Deep Dive
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2024
- #diablo4 #diablo4rogue #guides #skills #theorycrafting #darkshroud
Hello. Xarrio here. Welcome back. I get a lot of questions about Dark Shroud and Enshrouding aspect in Diablo 4 such as "is enshrouding worth it? Is cheat better? Is putting +4 dark shroud on my pants worth it or should I use some other defensive stat?"
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:08 Dark Shroud (basic mechanic)
02:59 Dark Shroud Damage Reduction (How it works)
08:55 Enshrouding aspect DR (How it works)
011:16 General DR Formula
12:29 TLDR: Quick Summary/Results
14:18 Outro: Thanks!
Correction: 10:00 11.2x5=56, not 60. This means the effective DR of 9 DS and enshrouding is 64.8 percent.
#diabloiv - Ігри
Edit: Just noticed an error in the calculation. Apparently, I can't multiply somehow. At 10:00 it should say 11.2 x 5 = 56% DR (everything else should be fine hopefully). This would make the effective DR with enshrouding + 9 DS a bit worse at 64.8%.
Stay safe brodie. Thanks for another great video breaking down these crazy diablo mechanics have been crucial to maximizing gameplay frsr👌👌
i could be wrong but you cant add the 8% together to say there's 40%. If you block 8% of 100 dmg twice lets say, 16 out of 200 dmg blocked isnt 16%, its still 8%.
@MrAndre2022 thats how i thought it worked. u get 8% dr for 5 hits. if the dr does in fact stack then i will be usin it wen i get to higher NM dungeons.
@@MrAndre2022lol y’all are beyond clueless the 8% stacks
You should pin this
You're content is perfect. Unlike most people you explain what it does, not justt "Use this it's METAAAHHHGHHHG!" And you do it in a way that has become very useful in other applications. I appreciate it very much.
The short version: Shroud is an effective form of damage mitigation and worth using if you want to work it into your build. Your build and playstyle are the main factors in determining if it’s right for you.
For example if you have a build and you play the game… it’s worth having 🧐
I love how you basically give a spoiler alert for the calculations 😂
It's made even more fun because I've literally paused videos before to do the calculation myself 😂
Very short tldr version here : this skill and aspect is extremely strong and mandatory for pushing high nightmare dungeon. But not very good for speed running decently high dungeons. Like a normal non elite quillboar will delete the buff in one cast. Non elite archer , wraiths will also be able to to it very fast. So the 20% dr aspect beats it for speed run.
Hey thanks for the video. If I'm understanding this correctly, then Damage Reduction from Close, Distant, and Poisoned enemies outperforms +4 Dark Shroud, which means they'd also outperform the +3 Subterfuge from Amulet. In terms of Enshrouding aspect, if you can fit it on a piece of gear, then that sounds pretty great. At rank 9, base DS providing 56% DR, with Enshrouding Aspect it then provides 68% DR. However, Disobedience's +30%-45% Total Armor, and Aspect of Might's 20% Damage Reduction, seem to out-perform Enshrouding Aspect. Not a problem for those willing to find a way of enchanting Disobedience, Might, Enshrouding, and Umbrous in that order.
Max out dodge chance-I think 60% or more is fairly easy to get-that way you maximize the benefit of the shrouds, which are removed on hit.
Maxing out dodge chance is not easy wtf you saying
@@ahappyimago not 100%, so I should have used a better phrase. I meant get the maximum possible dodge, which for many rogues will be around 60% with the elixir and incense and the conditional boost from the tree and assimilation aspect.
Thank you soooo much I've been looking for more details on this ever since these aspects have dropped for me
Woah woah woah! You forgot to calculate the enshrouding aspect when played on amulet ;) 6% per stack, but you did give me the info I need to do it myself.
Thanks a lot for this information! Very helpful while deciding gear.
Don't put it on amulet
So is it good or not
It’s actually the second best dr aspect in the game so yes
It's good until you get hit and lose your stacks
Thanks video was too intense to watch figured someone would make it easier to answer the simplicity of the question on the video
Its probably not better than might or disobedience. Umbrous probably has a place in many general purpose ranged builds not pushing the tip top as its a free skill slot for reasonable dr and potential crit in a def slot for some skill points. Enshrouding isnt good but its also probably the 3rd/4th best defensive aspect because the rest suck so If you need more defence you probably have to take it. Very high nightmare is weird because hard cc being more necessary means cheats (the cc based one) is worse and lower number of hits you can/do take makes enshrouding better, before that cheats is likely better.
@@PierreCHARLES1838that’s why you need to spec into dodge chance. With the elixir and incense, 60% dodge chance is pretty easy to get.
I actually plan to build more into dark shroud for my Rapid Fire build as it boosts crit chance which is ideal for rapid fire. Combining it with the one that gives you a free dark shroud when you get a crit with a marksman skill will make keeping them up much easier. Plus on that build I actually have more free aspects due to not needing to run many or really any unique items. Probably not a tier 100 build but I plan to make it for season 1 and try and kill Uber Lilith with it while we have the extra heart bonuses making us stronger.
i generate dark shrouds from puncture probably 5x faster than through rapid fire funny even with the innate crit buffing rf has on top of my quite high ~40% base crit chance. same with lucky hit healing. but i agree, if i use dark shrouds i wn't even put it on my bar bc cd is enormous, but extra sphere passively appaering doesn't hurt. tho you need 4 of them for crit buff which is highly unlikely.
0:33 😂Subscribed right before 👂 This.
Confirmed 👍
Thank you so much for the clear explanation !
I'd rather rely on my balanced gear stats, damage reduction, total armor, health, paragon board with gems. Momentum is way more reliable than DS and its usually the best defense is a good offense for a rogue.
it seems that I have to thank you almost everyday. Awesome.
So how far can you take this with max DR rolls on all pieces of gear that can roll DR? And combined with the situational DR to Close or Far and/or Poisoned and/or While Injured? Is there an effective cap on DR?
This is why I prefer umbrous aspect. Frees up a slot in hotbar and basically assures you'll always have permanent uptime on DS. You move way too often to keep those stacks up at higher tiers. Standing still for 15+ seconds to get 5 stacks seems so dumb to me and not worth the extra DR. Doesn't DR cap out anyways?
DR doesnt need to cap since it is multiplicative. You cannot get to 100% DR if you don't have a piece that does exactly 100%. Because you are always multiplying the remainder. Multiplying 1 with anything less than one will never get to 1, even if you repeat it infinitely. So DR has a "Builtin" cap. The number of slots on your gear and skills that allow for it dictates that number, which will always stay below 1 (100%). However those that have more sources are still priviledged (like for example damage reduction while fortified, for classes with fortify) or the builtin barbarian damage reduction. There are others like damage reduction from poisoned enemies, but this one cannot go into sockets and is does not have a global activation while consuming gear slots. This is just for rogue. They tought about this a bit and added more armor to the rogue paragon boards, however this does not help much because on high nightmare dungeons armor has greatly diminishing returns since monster are sustantialy above the player level (up to +54). So rogues are pretty much screwed in melee builds for pure survival, even considering dark shrouds, since those are wiped fast while in melee.
@@marsovac Makes sense! Thank you
@@marsovacit's not that bad I think? I mean comparing to might aspect where you get only 20%DR, you can get 40% DR with even one shroud on you. I'm basically trying to figure out which would be better if you had to choose between umbrous and might especially later on in WT4 you are critting and (C'C ing )a lot anyways.
Also with the nerfs to siphoning strike, you can probably shift some points here so that you get some chance to not consume a shroud and get a bit more uptime
9:59 - How is 11.2 x 5 = 60%? Shouldn't it be 56%?
Edit: I see your comment in the video description now: "Correction: 10:00 11.2x5=56, not 60. This means the effective DR of 9 DS and enshrouding is 64.8 percent."
hey, is there any reason to pick enshrouding over might? doesn’t seem to hv any real advantage unless you’re running a generator-less build
Hey man. Love your vids. Did you do some changes in your paragon board? I've been using your paragon board for awhile now
Thanks! Check the video on how to survive for my latest paragon boards.
great video thanks for the explanation!
Nice video 👍
Instead of the standing still shroud I went with basic attacks give 20%dr for 9 secs since I put it on the amulet. Working with penitent n chill caltrops for my rf build.
Why do you need it for 9 seconds? 6 should be more then enough, one basic attack every 6 seconds. Just seems a waste of a amulet slot really, those should be saved for damage boosts.
Hey I have a 820 xbow that only 2/3 lines are considered bis. Is it worth dropping ilvls for a 4line xbow?
At what Ilvl difference is it not worth changing xbows? been having troubles finding 820 xbows with 4 great lines
Imo bis cbow is vulnerable crit dmg all stats dex and 815 bow or higher if possible
It’s better imo than those special bows that can go 830 but only have 3lines
@@rodneyashley8375 yea im aware, but thats not what i was asking. When I said 2/3 lines are considered BIS, i meant that OUT OF THE 4 lines, 2/3 are good.
@@rodneyashley8375 Depends on the base damage roll with these two. You could easily have the 3 stat bow being better than the 4 stat if the base dmg (DPS) is better since all the damage calculations begin with the base bow damage.
Just curious about all aspects that say "Lucky hit: " does that mean you have to proc a lucky hit before that aspect even works? Then you apply the % chance that aspect procs?
Yes
another awesome mechanics video, don't know what else to say
Love your videos, can you please share your rogue build for s1 endgame?
Great explanation in the vid!
Glad you liked it!
That was awesome. Thank you sir.
Very informative! I've got a few questions though. Going from 40% to 42% is only a 5% increase, however you value it as much as a 5% DR roll. Could you make a video explaining DR bucket? Example DR from dark shroud, DR from armor, DR from rolls on gear, close enemy/range/poison/ while injured. How do those function together?
his general effectiveness formula at 11:16 in the video is the bucket formula. you'll notice you get diminishing returns for using multiple buckets, the 20% DR from enshroud turns into only 8% when multiplied on top of the 60% DR of the dark shroud skill itself. a base 5% general DR stat roll on gear multiplied by a DS (dark shroud) at 60% would reduce that general DR to a 2% and it would drop even lower to a 1.6% DR when paired with 60% DS and 20% enshrouding. so for DR you kind of want to stack as much additive into you're biggest bucket(s) as possible vs spreading it out like you would for your damage stats in which the multiplicative stats give greater returns. as far as which stats are in separate buckets idk, but I would assume armor to be it's own and the gear rolls might be additive amongst themselves(?), just most of them are not always active.
Thanks! For the reply.
How were you able to confirm this empirically? You're sure it works like this, and it's not like 5 separate instances of 8% DR?
bruh….are you dense
hello! I put the “Enshrounding aspect” on the amulet, it increases from 4% DM to 6% DM for each “Dark shround”. my pants are at max stats (yesterday I was very lucky!) less “Dark Shround” which is at 3 (not 4) Xarrio you recomended my change this for another defensive attribute? thx thx thx!
the problem with darkschrout you can only use it as ranged couse youget les hits and can regen them with marksman skills. As mele i lose Ds in just 1 sec when i go in a pac of enenmys so not for me
Great vid bro
Have you made your own twisting blades build? Would love to see what you think or would take for it!
I have not.. I prefer range builds over tb. More fun for me.
Well done thanks
essential for any rouge under 40 or 50, after that scrap it. JK the move speed buff is the only reason to use it xD
good for range rogue,,but maybe not good for melee rogue?
I believe melee rogue uses stun locks or non stop knock downs and then the share misery aspect.
I use the aspect even though I’ve been using melee. Mainly for that crit chance buff as I get them up quite often during fights
Nice video once again, very well explained.
I just don't get it, if enshrouding is really just a seperate buff, why you even take this aspect? There are better DR-Aspects without any conditions like having 5 DarkShrouds up, for example the "Cheat's Aspect", which even gives you more DR and a movement buff?
Well cheat does have a condition, crowd control. So if an enemy isn't crowd controlled, it does nothing. So it tends to be less consistent for range builds, but for melee builds it could be better depending on your play style.
Have you tried to make a build all the way focused around dodge? With the buff to the aspect for dodging and the legendary node and all the dodge chance u can get on ya gear do you think u can get 50%?
Nothing but dodge chance will never feel good. You need multiple layers of defense on top of dodge to prevent yourself from randomly being oneshot when dodge fails.
High dodge chance is better when going to high level NM dungeons or Uber Lilith, because you’d get one shot regardless, but if you aren’t running those and not doing Lilith the armor is a lot better for the rest of the content imo
@@SidneyPearls For rogues that will be one shot no matter what by some monsters on NM 100, yes. But this is bad game design because prevents melee rogues on NM100, which cannot make great use of dark shrouds, which are wiped instatly when in melee range. Only extreme dungeon fishing to avoid such monsters works, not the gear or the paragon or the skills.
How were you able to test this out?
Would aspect of might be another separate 20% off of the remaining damage? Enshrouding takes the 40% to 32%. Aspect of might takes 32% to 25.6%? I'm bad at math lol
You got it! Tho see my pinned comment for my error on the 60 percent calc.
Sorry another question but what about stats on gear like DR, DR from close & distant? Would they also be separate like enshrouding & aspect of might?
Ty professor
Is it confirmed that the base DR per shroud (and bonus from aspect) is additive rather than multiplicative? It could be a noticeable difference. Without aspect, 56% (if additive) vs 44.7% (if multiplicative) with 9 ranks; 40% (if additive) vs 34.1% (if multiplicative) with 1 rank. Still useful either way, especially with S1 defense nerfs.
Yes, the info in the vid has been tested.
My question is how good is it when not considered alone? We know seperate multipliers are stronger for DR and damage. You want to diversify your sources for damage reduction with both armor and DR. Is dark shroud and the aspect additive or not? Seems like at least the aspect is multiplicative, which would hold true for most damage reducing aspects.
no, you would want to stack one kind pf dr as high as possible
So is Enshrouding better than Cheat? Really wish that part was more elaborated on and the comparison between the two after mentioning it at the start and in the description.
It depends on your build. Enshrouding is 20 percent Dr if u can keep up the stacks. Cheat is 25 percent Dr if you can keep the enemies crowd controlled. So you have to evaluate the uptime of those 2 conditions based on your build and play style to decide which is better.
@@Xarrio The stat sheet says some forms of DR/defenses get worse the more you get, any chance you know if either of these two aspects fall under that category or also add to the diminishing returns on DR's?
Cheat is much much better, IMO enshrouding aspect is one of the worst rogue aspects in the game bc it requires you to stand still, aka you will never receive the benefits from it in a NM dungeon
I thought each shroud counted as it's own separate mitigation source. Example Level 1 with 5 stacks was 8% per stack which would be about 34%
Is it not? Pretty sure it is
Love how u answer the qns I have in mind 😂
Same bro 😂
Another great content. You think is better damage reduction than % evade? Or better mixed?
Just massive amounts of Dr generally is best bc it is most consistent.
@@Xarrio perfect, i do it.
Dodge chance and dark shroud can be good combo, as when you dodge it's not consumed and when you don't dodge, it will reduce dmg
It only works if you don't have a barber heart. Barber heart breaks the aspect
Hi! What do you think about temerity? Do you think having an umbrous pants is a lot better than getting temerity?
Temerity is okay for leveling, but for pushing higher end content, you need the Dr from regular pants to survive.
When are you making the end game lilith build??
If you have skill points for dark shroud but want to save the skill slot for something else, do the shrouds from enshrouding aspect have all the benefits from the skill other than having to wait longer to get them back up?
That’s what I want to know. And how is enshrouding a separate buff?
What kind of stats do you need to use DS without having it on your bar (aka with Umbrous)? I tried to make it work, but doesn't seem to worth it right now.
For context I'm lvl75 RF build, my Umbrous is 44% chance, my crit is 25% native + 9% with imbuedments, my lucky hit is 9.3% + 10% with non-physical, my attack speed is 14.4% + 18% with Accelerating Aspect. Yet I can't even maintain 2 stacks let alone 4+.
Lots of attack speed and crit are the two main things that will get you shrouds more often. More hits per sec and more crit gives more chances to proc. Lucky hit helps too, tho prob not needed on s you get the others. Also getting a good roll on your umbrous is huge.
Is it worth to put Enshrouding on your Amulet instead of Disobedience?
if i use get a free DS for standing still will the points i put into DS still be active even though i dint use it on my bar ???.
Yes
The numbers look good but in practice it's not because you're never at 5 stacks . Something will always hit you so at most you have 4 stacks assuming you one shot the pack
Hey Xarrio, love your Videos. Do you have NM 100 clear and Uber Lilith? Would like to see your Build in a nm 100 or against Uber Lilith 😊
Keep on making this good videos, hope your channel keeps on growing 😊
I don't ATM. I was pushing, but lately haven't had the time due to trying to help the community with informational vids lol. Hopefully one day tho!
I mean the math is great and all. But if it says it reduces damage by 42%. It reduces damage by 42% right?
If I get hit with something that does a 100 damage. Rank 1 DS: makes that hit 60 dmg, and rank 2 DS makes that hit for 58. Right?
So other damage reduction affixes are multiplicative with DS?
That is correct.
I think your math is wrong in first part since adding level of dark shroud increase the strength of the same buff. So 40% is 40% and 48% is 48%. Second part look ok dr is not additive between different sources
He is comparing it to other sources of DR%, which are multiplicative
Isn't the aspect bugged now, though, not providing the damage reduction. From personal testing, 4-5 shadows gave me the 8 crit chance (I have 1-1-1 hard points), it is recorded in the char sheet, but the dr is not recorded. Further, if I have the other aspect, the char sheet actually reflects the additional dr, but only it, so it went up by 20 for 5 shadows. So, it's either a bug, or the char sheet is lying to us again, continuing the proud tradition from D2 :D
Ya dark shroud Dr just not showing in stat sheet like a lot of things.
with your paragons i only reach +30% vuln damage.. with another board like exploit weakness or no witnesses it could be way more.. but idk if its worth to change smth, and when i wouldnt know what..?
Ya, you could swap in exploit weakness board if ya like. I find it is only potentially worth when pushing t90 plus when you are only pulling one or two mobs at a time or for Uber Lilith. If you aren't at that point, I wouldn't worry about it. You'll get plenty of vuln from gear.
@@Xarrio thanks for the reply my man. I am currently running 90-100 nm.. which one would u swap out? Thanks again man. Your build made me progress nm quite a bit ^^
hi, should I choose between Total armor or + 3 Rank Dark Shoud?
Total armor easily.
Might be good for ranged characters. Pretty useless for fighting up close. I use it simply for the speed and I don't put any points into it.
Enshourding or cheat aspect which one are better? Or they're the same categories of Dr?
All DR work the same (there are no "buckets" of DR). It just depends on which one you can keep more uptime on. Shrouds or enemies CC'd. They are similar in their total DR given.
I have plus 12 and enshrouding and a 50% armor aspect and the basic attacks give 20% dr for 6 seconds and that’s enough imo
Enough for what?
@@immodsr9348to stand against the darkness 😅
tier100?
@@immodsr9348 I’m doing 70s easy atm but I’m grinding to 100 I’m only 92 and getting a lot of glyph xp so I’m not pushing the content so far but im trying to get a dodge build and this build to work at the same time but I’m not having luck finding dodge chance on gear I got the aspects just don’t have the gear
@@rodneyashley8375 if you are melee you will find out that shroud dont work, so you won't be able to melee nm100 without extreme sigil/dungeon fishing.
Great fking video and to add to this u should have enshrouding on your necklace cause it take the dr up to 6% giving you 30%(x) dr
Also enshrouding is great for high level nightmares getting full stacks before u start the next fight the utility alone makes it worth having that way you don’t half to slot the ability
short answer: NO
Awesome dude.. somehow i get a feeling you are or a teacher or becoming one?
I am a 40 year old dude.. pausing a video to calculate myself.. while my kids of 9,7,3 watching me struggle.. well played sir😂
Insta Sub. Thank you so much! I love your explanations and the fact that this is more math than "YO MY BOIS WHATSUP I GOT AN INSANE DAMAGE BUILD!". I wished there was a similar channel for sorcerers. Does anybody have a recommendation?
You're welcome. Glad you like the explanation! Guess you are just going to have to come over to the rogue side @hansolo8080 =)
The answer to rogues being one shot.
Can you make a build for uber lilith?
Maybe one day... Uber Lilith is a beast that I haven't been focusing on due to the time commitment and needing to respec my entire paragon board to do so.
do an uber lilith video!
Anyone else get hot and bothered when the spreadsheets get broken out.
Just one question, Teacher... Will this be on the Test?
Hah. Of course.
Omg, dont pretend that you are using a new number when you change a percentage, this is the exact argument those high end twitch streamers are using to complain about the new partner program. The original damage is all that matters
volume a bit soft
Dark Shroud need rework cuz to many hit you will recibe at same time so is useless
PvE only where you keep a distance. Anywhere else you get spammed damage, this is no use.
for melee it is good for pvp as well at least, in pve sucks unfortunately
Sustain is better
Who has problems with sustain? A decent rogue player doesn’t worry about sustain more than survival.
It’s disappointing that dr is better than a dodge build this game has terrible build diversity.
Dodge cant be overpowered. It would mean un dont get hit never lol. Dodge is an added bonus, Plus it increases with dex. Dr does not scale with dex. And this is a skill that u need to invest in. Dont get why u mad about this.
My poison imbue tv dodge build is menacing in PvP😂
@@codywood173see ya in FoH 😉
diablo 4 players should learn mathematics to be good at this game
Arpg's love making the players do math
This aspect is trash. 3s is too long a time to stand still, well at least for a rogue class. I mean who the hell stands still for 3s during combat? Absolute trash.
The standing still part isn't what it is used for. It is for the extra damage reduction.
@@Xarrioer did you read the description on the aspect? You need to stand still for 3s to generate 1 dark shroud. Again the aspect is absolute trash. And yeah i use max dark shroud as an ability though.
@@ADesertVoice Yes, you don't use it to generate shrouds. You use umbrous to generate the shrouds from critical hits. Enshrouding is to get additional damage reduction from having shrouds.
@@Xarrioah yeah i get what you mean on the helmet yes, sorry thought you were featuring the pants aspect, which i meant specifically as trash. I guess you were just using pants as an example to showcase dark shroud.
Enshrouding aspect is blacksmith food. It's so ass, umbrous aspect is infinitely better, standing still in NM dungeon is a surefire way to get killed before you even get one dark shroud
Enshrouding isn't for generating shrouds, it is for the extra Dr from the shrouds that are generated by umbrous
@@Xarrio ohhh gotcha
Bro is this really necessary?