How Suzuki Won With A Stolen Two-Stroke Technology
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- The low cost and availability of the 50cc increased demand for such motorcycles after World War II. FIM established a true Grand Prix 50cc category and the real racing began. Brands like Honda and Suzuki were relatively unknown and they had to prove themselves by joining the GP.
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I watch every single engine video you post. I really enjoy hearing engines that I otherwise would never have known about, and going into the history and the problems that were solved is even better.
Thanks!
Very well said!
Never knew a square-3 engine design ever existed !
Really informative and fun video ❤️
#metoo
Would that technically be a right-angled equilateral triangle pointed off to a cardinal direction
Well, the honda mvx 250 is a street legal bike with a 3 square cylinders too.
@@gqh007 Only if your bearings are right.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 Whoops I'm a dumb dumb
300+ HP/L is insane.. those really were some of the glory days of pushing the envelope in engine design! Super interesting video as always!
Not just engine design, engineering in general. In the era of, say, 1960-1990, people just were more willing to think outside the box amd go wild (partially because of less strict safety/emmisions rules). A great example was NASA's X15, the fastest plane in history, which hit Mach 6 in 1967. Nothing today comes close to the top of the line stuff from that era, at least in terms of raw power/speed/brutality etc.
@@kg_canuck , agreed.. the world has gone soft these days, the glory days were much more unlimited and unrestricted- just look at F1, they are faster and safer etc. but it’s not the same as before.
most power gotten out of a two stroke is from the aprillia rsa125 making 432hp/l
ua-cam.com/video/vMWXtwx1Dnk/v-deo.html
@@joshe2420 You guys have to stop with the 400hp talk, the bike made 50hp. The ones in this video made 16hp. Less than a standard lawn mower.
Except they only made 16hp, less than a standard lawn mower.
16 gears? That's some Fast and Furious shit right there! 🤣
There never were "16 gears". The most a racing engine ever had was 14, on the Suzuki 50cc RK67. The RP68 3-cylinder used the same gear set.
14
@@wojack7066 They used a kill button and no clutch to change gears very quickly.
@@RC116 The single cylinder 50cc Kriedler of 1964 had an 18 speed gear box.
No motorcycle EVER had a "16-gear" gearbox. Please inform yourself and don't believe the crapola posted here by ignorants.
YT channel "2STROKE STUFFING" is a living legend. I love 2stroke motorcycles.
I love this stuff as I own a Motorhispania RX50 which is a 50cc mated to a 6 speed trans that makes 9hp and goes 70mph, it's on a bike that's considered a 9/10 scale crotch rocket and it appears full size but only weighs 200lbs. I also own a 1973 Suzuki TS185 2 stroke with the "Git Kit" that makes 25hp.
i need to check out what the heck is a motohispana
@@fidelcatsro6948 Spanish moped company like rieju. Derbi is gone long time ago :(
@@DrSmile81 i see...
I own a motorhispania as well but it is the "furia" model that is more of an enduro style and has a 50cc am6 engine. The guality seems good because mine is a 2004 model and everything still works well.
I love naturally aspirated engines, and especially appreciate the high-revving ones! Thanks for another great video! 🙂
it's amazing what can be achieved in a two stroke engine. I love these little engines myself and play with them all the time. even the nitro rc two strokes are fun. shame they have been all but forgotten in today's four stroke dominated market. maybe some videos on modern engines (if you haven't already done a video on them).
waaaaang waaaaang ting ting ting
This tech was all stolen from Walter Kaaden, the engineer of MZ, where Ernst Degner came from.
Walter Kaaden invented the rotary valve, figured out the expansion chambers on exhausts, and was the first to make a 200 hp/l 2 stroke.
And all that in the span of five years. And then it got stolen by a traitor who fled the country and then raced for the competitor.
they are forgotten due to poor efficiency, fuel economy, and bad emissions. four stroke is superior in these regards. two stroke has higher rpm and wider power band.
@@r3wturb0x51 maybe twin spark would help burning fuel.like honda idsi.
There’s lubricant in the fuel, since the crankcase under the piston is used for fuel/air intake during the compression stroke, and fuel/air mixes with exhaust since both port/valves open at the end of the power stroke so the exhaust is “blown” out.
A significant amount of fuel+oil goes out the exhaust.
Yes, please keep doing the series. Enjoying it.
If people want to read more about Ernest Degnar and the story round it. Have a look for the book "stealing speed" by Matt Oxley.
Thank you!
Thank you for making quality videos. Your voice and these engines are music to my ears. Keep up the superb work Visio!!!!
I appreciate it, Cayle. Thank you!
20k rpm near supersonic speeds. That was some INSANE engineering, and the engine notes are nothing short of painful...painfully sweet!
Amazing video! Keep going with the engine series, we love it.
Suggestions: Ford's 427 Cammer, Willys Knight, Fiat's Multiair
Ernst Degner was not the mind behind the development of the two stroke. He just stole the work of Walter Kaaden. Kaaden was the real genius behind the development of the successful racing two stroke.
Correct.
Kaaden used resonant exhaust systems invented by DKW designer Erich Wolf to scavenge two strokes.
Prior to that two strokes used heavy deflector crowned pistons that could not withstand high speeds
Kaaden also adopted designs developed by the independent engineer Daniel Zimmermann.
@Sohc_Vtec it is literally written everywhere on the internet. Just look fo Kaaden and you will find out about motorcycle racing before Japanese bikes were a thing.
Yeah…but he was German…
Suzuki sucked until adopting their stuff, specifically rotary valves & tuned exhaust. They dominated after that.
Iirc Suzuki got the 1st 5 finishing positions in the first major race after his help (the defector).
Kaaden knew nothing, he should have stuck to building trusses in his garage. Ask Jan Thiel
Been watching this channel since the start it’s so nice to see someone else besides me that loves engines this much!
Your english is way better than when i first watched your diesel 2 stroke vids nice keep it up share the un known gems with the world even i learn stuff from you thanks
Thank you very much!
Thanks! The Suzuki 50cc square-3 and also their 50cc V3 are both new to me. I’m grateful for your research and production.
My pleasure, Larry!
You can not have a square triple the same as you can’t have a square circle
@@johnr6292Look again at 3:49 and give us your name for that configuration. Yours may be better than “square 3”.
The 3 cylinders are arranged in a right angle. A machinist’s or carpenter’s “square” is right-angled. Not all “squares” have 4 corners. There is more than one meaning for “square”. C ya. And good luck.
Yes, the sixtees were very extreme. Beatles, Moon Landing, Cold war and . . . . . extreme motorvehicles. The technicians worked in a similar way the used to work during the world war two. Finding the best solution not as a compromise but as an extreme performance. Thank you for the video. I knew about the little suzuki, but I never saw a photograph of the transmission.
I love both Kawasaki and Suzuki. I am rebuilding my 85 Kawi 750 turbo bike. I ride both daily 2 Suzukis and a 2001 KLR 650 Kawasaki.
my cat loves u too😸♥️♥️♥️
@@fidelcatsro6948 my dog loves to eat cats. I love cats too. Dogs and cats are a carefull balance.
@@upsidedowndog1256 😳
I'm a Yamaha/Suzuki guy, Yamaha always seemed to "march to the beat of a different drum" than the other "big 4" and i like that, they also made the finest 2 stroke bikes (IMO) and their 4 stroke technology/engineering was always top notch. Suzuki was always a tad conservative in their designs, but again solid engineering with strong engines. I speak in the past tense because i lost interest in new bikes around 2010, and are mainly into restoring 80s 90s bikes and have managed to get a small collection going😀. 85 FZ750, 87 FZR1000, 94 TZR 250 SPR 3xv, 98 TRX850, 01 YZF R1, 86 GSX-R1100, 84 GSX-R400 gk71, and a single Kawasaki, an 84 KR250 (the tandem twin road bike, not a GP bike😄). On the "watch out for" list is a 87 Honda VFR750 in White, and a nice ZXR-750 preferably an 89 or 90 in Green!
Theres no school like the old school.
@@uhtred7860
Nice collection. Are you Dutch?
amazing video as always! you are one of my all time favorite channels! Keep the good work coming!!
Thank you, mate!
Good job, as always!
Outboards, diesel inboards and old airplane engines would be great to see on your channel!
Very good channel👏 Keep up the great work bringing us interesting automotive and motorcycle content. Thank you
As a recently turned motorcycle nut, this video is amazing... I learned about Enerst Degner from MotoGP journalists. So to see what he actually contributed to is pretty Cool.
I'm off to geek out on the RP68🔥
Always a pleasure to see you upload! I've learned quite a lot from this channel, keep up the great work 👍
Thanks, Pablo!
This was SUCH a great video. Informative and narrated brilliantly. So glad I watched this!
Thank you, Daniel!
Again good job VR, very interesting material too, as i have my old (1994) 50cc moped to renovate. Keep up the good work and thanks!
I have 2013 Romet 717 4t. Unopened engine, just bogger jets, unlocked variator(so it can open fully) and CDI. It can get up to 80km/h, on stock engine displacement of 50cm^3. Pretty good considering 200km of range on ~4l of fuel.
I always enjoy your videos. You find the most interesting engines!
I love these engine videos! That's some incredible engineering!
I love watching the video's that you post, they are very informative so thank you.
Great video as always. Please keep them coming. I love your style.
Thanks for sharing your study of these amazing engines and motorcycles , it is so interesting. Bob M. South Wales, UK
Great video 👍 There's so many interesting engines built in the past. Today all is so streamlined.
VisioRacer, fueled by positive feedback.
Most definitely
This is one my favorite ideas you have done. Thank you!
A deeper dive into some specifics like this is always interesting.
Maico history would be a good video. Thank-you
MZ was the unsung hero of the show
It was
Suzuki stole all German technologies from mz.
Kinda like the 1980's East German Bobsled design(West changes rules)"Can't beat 'em bann'em
Yes please, more videos like this! We love learing about engines like this and any engine really.
Thank you, Josiah!
I was really invested in this, I wish the video was longer😂
Awesome, can you do a story about yamathi too? It is also about 50cc racing: a highly successful dutch racing team, manufacturing their own stuff for racing.
is ook een veel interessanter verhaal
Hello!!
As an long time subscriber and BMW enthusiast, owner of an M50 and M52 engine powered 3-series, i would appriciate an M50 or M52 episode, why it is such an great 6cil.
Greetings from Czechia!!
Thanks/vďaka!
And 60 years later I have an 8.5 HP 125cc scooter that won't do 60 mph, that's what they call progress? Another super video, thanks.
Thanks for the informative video. It's interesting hoe the RP68 preceded the Honda N NS500 as a v3 engined two-stroke more than two decades prior.
These little two strokes never fail to impress.
This was amazing! More engine stories! I'll make a video about my 1987 Honda Cbr 250r MC17
Thank you for continuing to make this wonderful content.
Those engines are just so ridiculos small and still so powerful. I knew that Honda and Suzuki were building these small engines, but really didnt understand how small engine parts would be... Amazing work from those engineers back then
Soichiro Honda HATED 2 strokes, would never let his company use or develop them, and was determined to beat them with 4 stroke technology, all Honda GP championship win were with 4 stroke bikes, thats why the NR 500 was developed. Rules for GP at the time stipulated 4 cylinders and 500cc were max allowed, so he built a 4 stroke 500cc V4 with oval bores 8 conrods and 32 valves that revved to 20,000rpm. It was a failure, but the tech was used in the NR750 road bike (more of a "look how clever we are" than anything else) and the NR750 TTF1 race bike. The TTF1 was quite good and showed promise but was VERY expensive, i saw it race in Australia and take its first win in the Swann International Series. 👍
The porting was massive for such a small CC. That's why they launch wot.
Good vid. I own multiple 60s & 70s Suzuki smokers
Impressive stuff, thanks. 👍
Thank You! A very interesting story.
Those 14 speeds must be the transmissions they use in movie cars.
when i was 17 i had a friend whose name was johann hummel and was austrian state champion in the 50 cc class, my 50cc moped at the time had sufficient 6.5 hp with which i was on the road in half of europe eg rome, athens but also in the giant mountains and up to trenčianske Teplice to visit my sick father
The Formula One of scootering......nicely done!
21,000 revolution per minute enough to make people deaf who has sensitive hearing. N it's 2 stroke too.. engineers back then are insane.
The Honda CBR250RR had a 20k rev limiter back in the '90's
In race trim with open pipes and the limiter defeated it was absolutely ear shattering!
Just discovered this search for power and speed, good job !!!
That one guy with 188cc kit😂
This was and is incredible mechanic engineering.
Super videjko,ako obvykle😁💪
love your videos for a long time XD
I appreciate it!
Love the 2 stroke content. An episode on Penton/KTM? I have 2 with the engine that John Penton and Erich Trunkenpolz argued over and they are monsters!
Verry interesting ! As a 2stroke fan to hear about this is gold.
Thanks for your videos !
My pleasure!
Keep up with the great work man, I love your videos. Why not make a video about the most economical production engines ever?
What a great and informating video!
Those engines are a mad as a bag of bats! Keep up the content. 👍
Thanks, will do!
great video, you should do more about two stroke racing engines
I already knew theses 50cc Suzukis but I didn't know its history. Amazing!
I don't know how I missed this one, but I love pushing things beyond their limits, engineering extremes like this, it's awesome,. With the rotary valves why not supercharge the little engine? And with the single cylinder rules, why not build a supercharged dual acting engine,yeah it has two spark plugs , but only one cylinder, the supercharger, scavenger is required, but they would probably make a rule against a dual action cylinder, and an opposed piston would probably not cut it either, but supercharger! Boost would do it..
When I was young, the Suzuki Ac50s were very popular with youngsters because they were so fast and had five gears as standard.
This was so cool , yep do more on the lightweight category's!!
Wow 10 HP. And they were really pushing the envelope with 16 HP in a couple years.
Love the old technical stories. Great work man
Thanks!
5th scale rc cars are running 38cc single piston two strokes with over 10hp. Technology has come a long way!
Awesome job you made.
Would you feel instrested in making a video about the story of the Isle of Man TT?
That is damn impressive engineering for bikes which look like beefed up bicycles.
Excellent content!
Thank you, I appreciate it!
I had many two stroke motorcycles and loved the torque those bikes produced.
If memory serves me correctly (it often doesn’t these days) the later multi cylinder 250cc machines, Honda six cylinder and their like were engineered because the smaller the parts, pistons, valves etc were so small they created very little if any inertia unlike larger thus heavier parts.
500 rpm working range. Have to row that one like a loaded Lorrie.
Awesome stuff those retro Videos🤩
You should do a video on 2 stroke stuffing brute force engine or pip engine haha 😄
He is getting amazing power out of both the man is a genius. Close on 30hp out of 50cc is just crazy I think he will be close to 35hp by the time he sorts it out . Can’t wait until he has it in a frame and on a road or the salt
Love such videos! :) Thanks!
My pleasure!
I don't see how you can better this, but look forward to see you try. Hemispherical Love to those up above. 🥝✔️
you should look into modern 50cc racing cups like Freetech50. Nowadays with the same regulations (50cc 6 gears no variator) they achieve extreme horsepowers over 22hp very interesting to see how that's going on. I'm active in a dutch cup, 70cc air cooled two stroke. we achieve about 19hp nowadays, some are already above 20hp, with a puch moded engine....
Would be great if you compiled some viewing on supercharged only not turbo charged single cylinder engines under 200cc.
amazing 2stroke maschines😁🤘 can you make maybe a video about tomos separately please. i am from slovenia.
Love your Videos man🥰
Glad you like them!
Love the 2 /strokes🔥
I know I'm repeating myself here... But aftermarket crate engines like the Yamaha R1 (I4) x2 making a 2 Liter V8 with a custom crankshaft.
Ah, the PGM 2 litre V8 from Australia 🇦🇺!
I think you're missing out on the crazy genius of Walter Kaaden the guy behind the "stolen Technology", basically Degner's former friend and mentor.
Can you track the development of the 2006 limited Yaris. That motor was ranked best new engine of the year. Super executions of both timing and cam profile.
Thanks again, luv it !
Please make a video about two stroke 100cc go kart engines. They are masterpieces of the 90s karting reaching over 20k rpm. Also best drivers of f1 came to the sport from this karting class, like Lewis Hamilton and Michael Schumacher. I would love to see you make a video about that. :)
Não tem o som do motor? Exaust sound?
More of this content please. Thanks. ✌
Yes sir!
I really don't understand why a lot more of these sorts of small-displacement motorcycles aren't way more popular because of their potentially low cost, particularly for amateur gear-heads on a budget, who like to race them.
Awesome video! Love the interesting content that you keep coming up with!!
Thanks, Chris!
I like every engine video of any kind make and model, from 200 rpm to 22k rpm. Wanna see all engines, 😍
What makes the 2 stroke a dominant engine is it has a piston and know valves to bend ,or brake , and cheap to build
loved this little story about these bikes always been interesteted in thesse smaller CC engines
Glad to hear that!
Please do some video about Tomos motorcycles. They have huge history in 2 stroke engines. Both commercial and racing heritage.
Suzuki basically stole mz design secrets.
Degner was racing for mz which was a very small company but was starting to win races, Suzuki approached degner and offered him a ton of money to steal design secrets and race for them
No, they didn't! When Degner joined Suzuki, the Suzuki racers were already in their final form, and Degner merely provided assistance in the fine-tuning of the engines!
20,000 rpm's from an aluminum cased 50cc, 18 horsepower engine produced in the 1960's without the aid of computerized design or equipment. The engineers of that era must of been absolutely brilliant to have pulled that off!