Great video…Absolutely great VH tones…I think you have gotten as close as humanly possible to that sound….Awesome chops too..Can’t wait for the Diver Down/1984 tones…..
Seeing so many JBL/ brown sound video sparked a memory.I worked at Dr Music in Pasadena where Edward shopped and was sent out to a music store in SF valley and got a pair of JBL's.I wasn't told they were specifically for Edward but we didn't sell speakers so I'm assuming they were.That was corroborated by someone close to the VH camp...JBL's brown sound...99.99999%
This is Brian Kehew; I went thru all the early VH tapes. There were always two channels of guitar. The 1st album alone has a certain sound. There were always two channels of guitar recorded, tracked at exactly the same time. One was dark and thick (like your black back sound) and the other had a bright fizz on the top. Combining the two of those sounds to get a made the guitar sound of the first album. At the time I had a 1966 100 watt plexi Marshall. I had the matching cabinet with greenback celestials, pre-Rola. There is no way a stock Marshall and a celestion speaker makes the top end fizz that I heard off that single channel. I knew that Ed had been pictured with JBL speakers in one of his cabinets during this period. And it sounded exactly like that fizzy sound that JBLs make on the high end - which is why nobody else likes to use them! Remember that a 12-inch speaker is basically just a woofer. It has no real high-end at all, if you took a three-way speaker cabinet and unplugged the mid-range and the Tweeter - that is the 12-inch bass speaker filter that we are used to from guitar cabinets. I have only heard a few jazz people make use of JBL speakers, it usually doesn't work well for distortion because of the ugly high end. But when mixed with something fat and Rich like the other channel, in this one case it makes a very silvery shimmering guitar tone. I stand by my theory that the JBLs were used on the first album alone, and the other albums do not have that tone.
@@jegauss I have been trying to find the right cabinet Eddie van halen used for the brown sound and there are 3 of them the Marshall 1960bx Marshall 1960bv and the Marshall 1960bhw do you know the exact one he used Jim?
very cool. I always found it funny that a sound that eddie was very publically unhappy with, would become so iconic as to spur on so many to do such surgical deep dives to find out the why's and how's. He must've had more than a few good giggles at it, but also felt so proud at the same time. Legend.
Really appreciate these addenda and updates on your ideas about how to hit these tones. JBLs for me. Tanner’s video was really great though. We’ll never be 100% sure. Awesome that you are testing these things for us, sounds amazing. CANNOT WAIT for Diver Down and 1984 stuff.
Thank you, Chandler! I agree on the JBLs, but as I said in the video, I think they all "qualify as that sound." I think Tanner's video is pretty convincing, too.
Thank you so much for all your hard work. I love your videos and all the great insight. For what it’s worth I think he did use the JBL d120f’s on the first record. It just adds a little top end clarity. Thanks again!!!
I know man…like I know I play it right, but you are correct that it’s hard to get “right” sound/delay wise. Jim has the best tones I have ever heard…using the REAL gear!!
Jim you’re probably the only one I’ve ever heard who plays I’m The One with the swing like it’s supposed to…Ed’s sense of swing on their hyper speed boogies was epic and you sir NAILED it!! Love these deep dives!
Holy moly if you didn't capture the brown sound, I don't know who can. They say that it was in his fingers, I say it is in yours too. Your playing is just as good as his was on that first album. Amazing, best I have seen and heard ever replicated.. YOU NAILED IT
There’s an interesting detail about the solo on Aint Talkin Bout Love. If any of you’ve read Ted Templemans book you hopefully caught that detail. As soon as you know this and listen back it suddenly stands out. And also great job on this new video. Outstanding as always Jim.
When I heard your first vid I thought something was missing. Couldn't tell you what but my ears knew. With this vid, I think you are spot on. Nailed it! Excellent work.
Man I really dig your deep research into EVH's sound. I definitely feel that you've gotten the closest to nailing it perfectly. I can't thank you enough for these videos! Such a pleasure to watch 👊👊
Jim, as usual awesome video. Exploring the lore around what created an indelible mark on all of us is fascinating. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and talent. I got goose bumps on the last three songs with new amp/variac settings and pickup! I was going to be productive today but now I am going to have to tinker with some stuff in the basement for at least part of the day! Saw Tim H. play yesterday and he said he was coming out to see you later. Keep the vids coming.
Hey Arlyn! Good to hear from you! And, thank you! I hope your tinkering was a success 😉 Yep, Tim is coming down in September. It's been awhile since he's been able to plug into an old, Marshall Super Lead...I think he's going to love it. And, I'll probably ruin him for anything else. But, I am digging his 2 x Fender Deluxe setup. I've always said, if I were doing the nightly gig thing, and hauling my own stuff, and playing relatively smallish clubs / honky Tonks, I'd be playing a Deluxe Reverb. They're just great little amps...give Kim a hug for me, and I'm thinking you guys are due for another trip to Nashville........?
Thanks Jim! You da man! Your series has been so inspiring. FWIW....after your earlier vids, we chatted on Fb. I mentioned that I sought out a Weber repro of a D-120 "type." In my tests, it honestly made a noticeable difference. It adds a certain bite that I wasn't getting with just Greenies. So, thanks for this one too. These things give me the outlet I need! Thanks again!
@@tfbattag Thanks - good to know. I think when I tried the Weber route a number of years ago, it was recommended that I go with the Weber California. They just didn't sound that close to a JBL to me. But the Neo sounds much more like it. At least the magnet is much closer to the actual JBL.
Waking up and seeing this video and your past videos, is almost like Christmas as a child. Brilliant @Jim Gaustad! Thanks for doing this. My buddies and I use to do stuff similar to this, but no were near the magnitude of your videos, of course! I'm still in the JBL camp. I really think he used those JBLs. They really have that upper high sizzle.
Thanks Rik! I'm glad you enjoy these vids...I have a lot of fun doing them. And, I'm always learning, refining, and discovering new things. It's a great way to stay playing, and stay sharp. I miss playing live and touring, but I'm getting too old for that lifestyle anymore. I think it'd be fun for about 3 weeks, then I'd go "oh yeah, I remember...this isn't exactly the glamorous life." Anyway, thanks again! I very much appreciate it!
@@jegauss I know the feeling regarding playing live. I'm in a band here in south Florida, Havoc 305. We play 4-5 nights a week. Not too late, usually done by 11pm and I have a day job. Sometimes I wake up in the morning thinking damn wish I would of gone to sleep earlier lol. I love it but yeah, I'm starting to feel it at my 57 years. Take care Jim! Thanks for the reply.
Jim! Another awesome and fully-detailed video with those awesome EVH tones, and for a little bonus we got to hear some of your talented licks also! I agree with you on the speaker choice. And the tones of your sample music sounded even closer than before! You are the EVH tone wizard! I'm very excited to hear your next projects! Hope life is treating you exceptionally well! You Rock my friend!
you and pete thorn are the only ones who get THE brown sound so right, esp the VH1 tone, that raw powerful fizziness, that icey top end but nice full and smooth mushiness to it, and that nice wubbly low end in the lower registers. no one compares at this level
Excellent buddy! I do agree that the Celestion/JBL combo sounds the closest and as I have said, I don’t think it would be prudent to completely dismiss that idea. I know Tanner says it is unlikely that Eddie would switch speakers around in that time frame around the recording of the album and the photos from the gigs surrounding that, but it is not impossible that he did!
@@RavenGuitar As our friend Tanner and Jim have pointed out correctly, the JBL D120F/Blackback or Greenback combination is not a 100% proven fact. At this point, it can neither be eliminated from consideration or completely taken as fact.
@@AllenGarberGuitarFun I didn’t say it was a proven fact. However, The fact there is no 100% indisputable evidence to settle the issue means one can say that about anything. If you listen to the raw guitar track off of UA-cam - the difference is much greater than what can be heard in Jim’s videos. My ears tell me it’s clearly JBLs. But it could be anything (because there is no proof). As I said : the proof is in the pudding: the sound. My ears have a conclusive winner.
@@RavenGuitar You may not have heard the actual individual speaker tracks that Jim, Tanner and myself are talking about, but they are worth hearing. There might eventually be 100% proof that settles it for good around the corner…the are always new things that come to light. I’m just advising you to keep an open mind.
Man, Jim! That is absolutely IT!!!. The little changes make sense….I’m blown away even more that I was first time…thank you SO much for makin us Geeks so friggin happy….feel free to do ANYTHING brother. I think you certainly have peoples attention. Maybe later on you could dive into early Randy Rhodes…not my favorite tone but very recognizable. Either way man…I’ve never heard ANYBODY get this as good as you have. Fan for life !!
my respects you did a great job ! ........I showed up at Eddies place to deliver flowers to Valerie back in 1988..as i worked for a hollywood flower shop back then......unfortunatley Eddie wasnt there....so close yet so far away... ! I did meet Jose Aredondo..also.....he was great super nice guy .....I got so close but no cigar......as far as rubbing elbows....I did meet him one time during a Peavey event at House of Blues Hollywood.....in 1993 or 94...so long ago..we met shooke hands...but it was all really quick.....as far as Van Halen One tones I believe your as close as anybody will ever get......there are others who have gotten close....your tips and tricks are excellent again my respects...Happy New Year 2023 !
Jim!!! Absolutely great video! Thank you for all you do! Killer tones as always. This is the closest to VH 1 I’ve ever heard. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I’ve been itching for a Marshall like that, and a variac. Your videos have helped me immensely with my pursuit of early VH tone! 🎉🎉🎉
Man what a way to wake up in the morning..I’m in the kitchen getting coffee Tryin anyway you’re YouTubing on my tv I had to look around the corner because it’s that close to the man himself🔥🔥Thanks For The Morning Brain Damage 👍EVH FOREVER ✌️p.s. people like you keep memories alive…
I'm so happy about the way those blackbacks sound in your recordings, everyone is dumping them to get smaller onstage I was able to get a lot of loaded cabs cheap 400-700 a cab
It's great to see you (and hear you) back in action Jim! Great video, great sound and playing as ever! 🔝🤩🎸 Diver Down? 1984?? Can't wait for them!!! 🤟🏻😎🎊💥
An addendum to my first 👏🏻 for this video: Jimmy you’ve been second to none in all of your helpful unpacking of all things Ed. Your Research and demonstration is invaluable for all the Ed heads…! My Canadian penny in all of this- I definitely 'Do NOT’ hear the sound with just greens. The tonal difference between what you A / B’d is night and day. I use a 70’s green (top) and black (bottom) in a 212. The blacks, imo, has an EQ to them on their own that sounds right. Especially the … 🤔 ... What is it? The 004 or 003 cones? But mixed with the JBL… 😗👌🏼 The 20w evh celestions sound nice as well. But all the rest of your changes and mentions about the pickup and pot and running the amp… Again I say on behalf of all the folks here- 👏🏻 second to none. Thank you*
Thank you, Jamie! I love those Blackbacks - not sure which cones I have, I haven't had those cabinets apart in years, but I remember, way back in the early 80s, I had a blackback cabinet that was just so much better than the rest of the cabinets I had. It was the one that always got mic'd live, and always went into the studio with me. I don't know why I ended up selling it (most likely "broke musician disease"), but I did, and I've always regretted it. That's why, somewhere around 2005 I scooped up a stack of those mid-late 70s black backs.....I love them, and after doing this video, I've just rotated them into the favorite cabinet status. 😉 Thank you, again!
Thank you! Right now, I'm working on Diver Down and 1984 - they're both really different - both done at different studios (Diver Down was done at Amigo Studios, and '84, obviously, at 5150). So, it's considerably more difficult to make assumptions on the equipment being used....but, I'm working on it.
Another great job, Jim. We really do appreciate your scholarly approach to this topic. It's strange to deconstruct what was, more than likely, just Eddie and the engineers "going for it!". A request: At some point when you get to it in the history, could you talk about how Eddie's tone changed when he dropped the Floyd in? I cannot remember the source exactly, but he definitely talked about it being a trade-off in a magazine. His live tone got really bright after that, and I know he wasn't too wild about it. Thanks for your efforts. -Paul
Thank you, Paul! I've touched on the floyd, and how it affected tone, (although, not in depth), across a few of these videos - but, I think between the wireless thinning out the sound, and the floyd, not having as much body contact as the standard tremolo bridge, led to that really bright, live tone. That, and he was using "new" Marshalls live, which are probably slightly harsher than his usual 12301 Super Lead that was used for all of the albums until he moved on to the Soldano...but, back to the floyd - I think when the 5150 guitar retired the Frankenstein, I believe he had built out the tremolo cavity with a thin slice of wood that the oversized block contacted. That gave him more bridge / body contact, and that guitar ended up being warmer...
Hahah again, in love with the VH tone. Thank you for doing this for those of us who don’t have the resources to do so. Interesting about the 60 volts. I’ve had mine at 90 and tried to go lower but under 75 my amp shut off. However, I didn’t rebias them before. I recently did since I just got a Sylvania 6CA7 off EBay (had to jump on it for $80!) and thinking it may be able to go that low since my power tubes were reading 13 mA! when they were at 90 lol. Jeeez.
Hey Eric! Yeah, for me, it's typically the preamp tubes that give up before the outputs. The bias doesn't really keep them working any longer, it's more about tone. It's the heater voltage (or lack thereof, that makes the amp fade away....every amp is a little different. I have a couple that don't like to go below 73 volts, the others (3 more), will go to 60 and one of them, a 76 metal face, goes to 54 volts.
Update: just checked, amp works at that range but the power indicator light for some reason requires 75 volts or more to work lol idk. But omg! When playing, especially a song like Little Dreamer (the beginning riff with that pop sound on the A string; I pluck it actually like a bass) pops so much more at a lower voltage! This is the essence to the “brown sound”. I’m so stoked and thank you for bringing this up!
@@VanHalenIsolated Oh yeah, absolutely - Ed said he used to set the amp so the pilot would just barely be on, and then hit the open G string, it would go out completely. It varies per amp, but that's usually between 68 and 75 volts. And so now, you're discovering, the 90 volt thing is a bunch of nonsense 😉 It was always much lower than that. I've been running that way for years, but it took me a long time to believe that Ed was doing that, because everyone kept repeating the 90 volt "thing." Including Dave Friedman and George Metropoulus. They even built amps with the 90 volt "variac" switch....yes, Ed may have eventually turned it up to that, but in the early days, the first 5 or 6 albums, I believe it was always in the 68 volt range...anyway, have fun with it. The amp is a whole new thing when you get down there, as you're discovering.
Wow you really know youre stuff . this tone sounds just like the sound i got back in the mid 70's with my ibanez destroyer with the super 70's thru my marshall 100 w plxi 68. Model just crank the amp . i still have one of the pickups now im thinking of useing it in one of my guitars again after all these years ha ha great show mate cheers love V H
We'll never know for sure if Ed ever used blackbacks, but I think they're great for VH stuff. Tighter in the bass than greenbacks, not as middy, and more aggressive in the high end. They help to keep things tight when the variac is turned down. They blend well with greenbacks and could even serve as a substitute for the JBL's to some extent because of their aggressive high end.
I think having an lil saturation from the mixing desk and saturation from the tape would add the missing artifacts in the tone youre looking for. Great Job btw!
Thank you for this! JBL definitely! I was surprised as to how good the black back sounded. I wonder what the black back with the jbl would sound like though.
Hey Walter! Thank you! Yeah, the blackback / JBL is probably "it." I just didn't feel like opening up cabinets and swapping stuff around at this point. But, I know what my favorite cabinet is now, for everything "not Van Halen 1." It's going to be the black backs from now on. The green back cabinet goes to no. 2. Thanks for watching!
Hi Jim, great demo and tones as always and truly believe JBL’s were used in combo with Greenbacks from hours of listening to VHI and what you have just proven! Ahhh Tanner Yorden! I remember having a heated discussion on the use of JBL’s on VHI where be argued that “He and the other members of the VH group disagree” lol! I mean even Pete Thorn and Dave Friedman think JBL’s were in the mix! Anyway great vid and thanks!
Thanks Steve! Yeah, I hear you....although, I do think that Tanner's evidence is pretty convincing. But I also know, growing up in the 70s, a lot of guys were also putting JBL D120s in their Marshall cabinets. In fact the first professional gig I ever played (I was 12), back in '78, I borrowed a Marshall 50 watt 2x12 combo - it had been "upgraded" with two JBL D120s. So, there's really no telling what Ed did going into the studio...he very well may have dumped the JBLs into a slant box....we'll never know, but I certainly lean towards those JBLs being in the mix for the first album. Thanks again for watching and jumping in to the conversation!
Thank you! I'm working on a process for that, to capture the "post" guitar sound, along with what's coming out of the speaker cabinet...we'll see if it's successful.
Jim, wonderful video and playing !!!! I have been failing at getting that tone for years, you have it bang on. I would love to replicate your rig and redo my “I’m the One” cover…anyway rock on and thanks for sharing this great info!
Fascinating stuff for us EVH nerds. The Greenbacks alone are not the secret to the tone I don’t think. VH I has a sizzle to it that the Greenbacks don’t offer. Those upper mids are gone for the VH II tone. I think it’s the JBL but the Blackback gets you there too. Have you tried the Fryette power station? I haven’t tried that unit yet but it seems to be the best option out there in terms of keeping your tone at home volumes. The variac was such an early attempt at taming insane volume levels…Eddie has given us so much as guitar players, every guitar and tech innovation he seems to have had some sort of influence. I miss the guy so much.
Thank you, Carlo! Yes, I have tried the Fryette Power Station. I like it, but it's overkill for me. I wouldn't use it live, because I do the variac "thing" live. It works well for me, and I generally really dislike the sound of an attenuator. Plus, the Fryette uses it's own amplifier for output. It's great for the right circumstances, just not for me. Honestly, I think the cleanest, easiest, truest form of attenuation, is a combo of variac, PPIMV, and turning the main volume down a little if you're attenuating heavily. Otherwise, you get that "over compressed, fizzy type of sound. Here at home, in the studio, I just use an old, Marshall Power Brake when I don't feel like playing loud. I can make a couple of minor tone tweaks / turn volume one down on the amp to about 8, and I get pretty close to the full-up tone that I play with live, or when recording / doing these videos. And yes, I really miss him, too. Hard to believe he's no longer with us. I most likely wouldn't be doing these videos if he was still with us. I started doing them, sort of as a tribute to him and his genius...
Like you said, when isolated, it could really go either way. There are so many factors that go into recording speakers (grill cloth, a/b cabs, the slightest movement in mic position, etc.) IMO, both the solo’d blackback and JBL sound equally close to the original bright track, just in different ways. I would be interested to hear how a change in mic position would affect the green/blackbacks i.e. putting the mic directly in the center rather than cap edge. Maybe that’s why they are lacking the high mid-high range? Great great video. This is the most informative test i’ve heard yet.
Hey Tanner! I agree with you - I'm not sure we proved or disproved anything. I think all of those cabinets "qualify as that tone." But, I don't think it's mic placement - trust me, I tried 3-4 days of different mic positions, recorded them all, listened, eq'd, etc....I did do the mic position that you suggest - way too bright, you can't pull enough high-end out on the channel eq - you could in post, but not on the "input to tape" like the reference tracks. Anyway, the mic positions I ended up with were certainly tested thoroughly and then I used tape measure, and a builder's square, to line them up exactly on each cabinet. So, I'm not thinking mic placement...however, what I do think affects it more than I can compensate for, is the real analog API console, the real, hardware 1176 compressors, and real tape machines...I can only get so close in the digital realm. But, I did manage to get as close as I think I'll ever get. Anyway, thanks for the inspiration to do this video - it was fun, and again, I learned a bunch - always do when I start moving mics around and messing with these little parameters that all affect the outcome. I think we made a pretty good team!
@@jegauss I figured that you did a lot of testing behind the scenes. It was definitely enlightening to hear that the JBL is closer than I thought! Thanks for pumping these videos out so quick
@@tanneryordan thanks for giving me the excuse to do another one on VH 1. I also wanted to present where I was probably “wrong” on my first video with the amp / pickup info - so your video gave me the perfect spring board to do the follow up.
How do you get the distortion or what you want to call it It has a buzzsaw tone Like Running wt Devil My 100 watt Plexi sounds clean and so loud Do you think he had a small booster like a LPB1 hidden Sorry to bother you
@@bobbarcus8310 Hey Bob! So, so much of that depends on your amp - are you running a variac?, If so, how low do you dial it? Where is the bias set, what type of output tubes...etc...preamp tubes are a huge part of it. I've got vintage Sylvania 12ax7s in mine - there is a huge difference compared to other sets - So, you kinda need to find a good set of preamps, one by one, and which one sounds best in which position. It's tedious, and you need a pretty big selection of 12ax7s....But no, I'm sure he didn't use a booster - if his amp was anything like mine, it's almost got too much "gain / distortion." If it's none of the above, it could be too much filtering, or bad filtering. The choke value could be too high, and finally it comes down to the output transformer - unfortunately, sometimes those are the luck of the draw, unless you go aftermarket and get a Merren, or Mercury Magnetics, etc.... Hope that helps a little....
@@jegauss I have a late 1993 RI 100 watt Plexi It was one of the first in Ca I use NOS Holland mini watts And Chinese 6CA7 that I hand picked I do not have a variac And I only use a old bandmaster cab in 60 watt WHS I was thinking of lowering the filter caps in preamp and phaseinverter The 50/50 seem overkill So lower voltage with variac and then Fresno the bias I always thought that the small knob in back on his #1 was to turn the bias so you didn’t have to take it out of cab head Thanks for you time Bob
Jim thank you so much for all of this wonderful content! You have these tones NAILED! I wonder if you could comment on (or let me know if you have somewhere else) the EVH Gear offerings -- the wolfgang, the 5150III -- have you ever played them, and are you able to dial in vintage EVH tones with this equipment? Honestly I've not seen any videos of that....the tones are the "modern" EVH sound, but they market it as "the brown sound"...would love to hear your take! Thanks again.
Thank you Michael! You know, I've tried the EVH amplifiers - didn't like them much, at least for the more vintage VH tones. I couldn't get there with those amps. I had better luck in the early - mid 90s with the Peavey 5150. I owned a couple of those, and the combo. Did some recording with the heads (through Marshall 4x12s), and played live with them for awhile. I liked those better - they were like the Soldano SLO 100. Which was more like a high gain Marshall. But, you could dial the gain back and still get that classic sound. I've played the Wolfgang guitars, both the Peavey and the EVH. They're really great instruments - I don't own one, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to get one if I felt like I needed another guitar 😉 As far as the pickups go, I've never tried one of the Wolfgang pickups, but I've tried and used the EVH Frankenstein pickup - I think that pickup is good for the later albums - I haven't had any luck with it in trying to get the earlier album sounds - it could work on Fair Warning and Diver Down - and probably 1984, too - but there aren't a lot of Frankenstein songs on 1984. Only Panama and House of Pain, along with some assorted solos on the album. Thanks again for watching, and jumping into the conversation!
Hi Jim, Billy Sheehan told me that George Lynch has Eddie’s cab from VH1. It definitely has a JBLD120 in it. Also, Wall of Sound has a VH IR based off Lynch’s cab. Would be interesting to compare your reference track against your rig with that IR
Yeah, I've heard that, too. I honestly go back and forth on the theory - I can get pretty darn close either way. One of these days, I suppose I ought to embrace all of this technology that allows me to use IRs, and models, etc...but, I'm pretty old school. And if stop doing the old school stuff, there's not many of us left anymore 😉
Thank you so much for doing these videos! It's like an archaeological dig into the past. So fascinating! But there's one thing that is keeping me up at night and no one's talking about it. Am I hearing a G-flat in the intro of Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love? It's giving me nightmares and I can't sleep!
Thank you for watching, and you're very welcome! Yes, no more nightmares for you - on the G-string / wiggle stick / slide up, I didn't quite make the G at the 12th fret - it's a Gb. I knew it when I did it, but just decided to leave it in the spirit of "hey, it's live!" 😉
@@jegauss Sorry! I mean hitting the 2nd fret on low E during the intro riff. (Technically an F with Eb tuning). Maybe I've been playing it wrong!! Oh the nightmares in my head! 🙃
@@BrainFever Nah, I just don't hear it that way 🧐 I'm hearing the palm muted G / almost a "grace note." But, I could be wrong....I should probably find a close-up live video of Ed playing it.....just to be sure!
I can tell you at The Whiskey Ed was playing so loud, I would stand in front of his setup and my ears would be ringing for 2-3 days afterward, he was louder than anyone else I saw back then.
I believe it. I still play with a half stack when I go out and play live. I don't use an attenuator, just the variac - even down at 60-70 volts, when that cabinet is pointing right at you, it's still pretty loud.
Great work Jim. If you were to hypothetically conduct this experiment again but using IRs instead of a micced cab, are there any that you would recommend? Cheers!
I'm hearing noticeably more top end on the reference tracks than either of the green or black back versions, especially Ed's JBL. I know this is pretty subjective. To me, Ed's JBL sounds somewhat more broad in range, more airy. Nice technical breakdown, Jim. Like you said, they're so close it's hard to tell. Thanks for the vid.
Hey Max! Yeah, that's interesting - I hear the reference tracks as more "narrow" in bandwidth. I just had another guy comment that the tracks I recorded needed more bottom 100-120hz rolled out. I think mine are borderline thin on the bottom - at least the Greenback cabinet is. So much is what you're listening with - my monitors are "pink-noised / spectrum analyzed" and flat in my room, plus the headphones don't really reveal that, either. But, what I will say, I think what you're hearing on the VH tracks, the fullness, and air, is a direct effect of the real, API console, the real hardware 1176 compressors, and the magic of real tape. It's hard for me to emulate all of that in a total digital world, but I try to get as close as possible. But there's definitely some "magic" that gets imparted on Ed's tracks for sure - I love the convenience of digital, but I sure miss recording to tape in a complete analog studio....😉
What speaker do you think is better for the early EVH sound. The current Celestion G12M Greenback or The G12EVH branded speaker in the current 4x12 cabs?
It's been quoted a few times - Michael Anthony made the statement - something about "the sound wasn't all that, and it was pretty bright in the room." I forget where to find it, but I've read it several times throughout the years.
Amazing dedication to the tone search Jim! To me, it's clearly the mix JBL/Celestion cab that sounds perfect - thicker, yet middy. And the playing at the end was spot-on! 60 volts? How loud is that in the room?
Hey Andy! Thank you! I actually ran the voltage at 66 volts for this video. Volume-wise, it's about perfect for playing with a live drummer. And actually, when I play with my brother (he's a pretty hard hitter), he can actually drown me out when the amp is a 66 volts. With him, I usually need to set the variac to about 76 volts. Then I'm pretty evenly balanced with the drum kit. But, we run in-ear monitors when we play live, so to make it easy on the front of house guy, I usually keep it at 66-68 volts. They can send a little more guitar back at us in the monitors....it all works out well. 😉
Yes - It's very "cold" in relation to the plate voltage / dissipation. The plate voltage is probably somewhere in the 250 vdc range and the bias is probably somewhere between 7ma-12ma. I say probably, because I've measured all of that so many times, that I don't remember specifically, but definitely in that range.
Sure, it could be...it could also be the 2 black backs, or a lot of different things. What I can't account for / compete with is the API console, hardware 1176 compressors, real tape, etc....I think I do Ok trying to emulate all of that, but at some point, all that great analog gear, is going to impart some "magic" on those tracks. But, for the sake of argument, I think as a digital recreation, I'm about as close as I'll ever get.
Hey Jim, I have a question that hopefully you’ll see and maybe know how to answer. My friend and I are trying to get this tone down too and we have bought damn near everything that is period correct for this project. My question is, do the JBLs have to be wired a certain way because they were made different? I ask because the tone we are getting from this setup is very tinny sounding and doesn’t seem to get that “fullness” sound that Ed had. We have all the right pedals (all vintage, period correct) and guitars with humbuckers. The only thing not period correct would be the SM57s and the DAW lol. Any help would be appreciated!
So, good timing - I just sat down when your message came through….ok - so first, there’s quite a bit of debate if he even used the JBLs for the first album and possibly the 2nd album. But, if he did use them, it was only for those first and possibly second albums. So, to your question - yes, JBLs are opposite phase of a Celestion. So you need to reverse positive and negative on the JBL. Then they’ll be in phase. I’m not sure why JBL did it that way, but most speakers push out with a positive voltage - JBLs pull in. So, that explains why the sound is thin. You’ve got phase cancellation going on…good luck in your quest.
@@jegauss thank you so much for the response, Jim! We are huge fans of what you are doing for the Van Halen stuff. Appreciate it and looking forward to the 1984 video!
@@jegaussI believe you should always make the speaker cone move forward away from the magnet to operate correctly regardless of what color the wire is
I finally got my JBL D120F and I have to say, it’s what clinched that Van Halen 1 tone with reverb and delay. I heard about this from Tanner and I don’t think Eddie used JBLs on tour after the album and not sure about before the album. The aluminum dust caps you see live are speaker cabs not for Eddie’s guitar because of where they’re located. They COULD be since I’m assuming this. However, I really believe that either he used JBLs or he used two greenbacks to record and one track for lows/mid-low and one was EQ’d for mid-highs/highs while recording with a mic outside the cone. The JBL theory is convincing since Eddie liked mixing stuff like that for tone chasing; especially in the beginning
The bottom line, we don't know! 😉 But, it also wasn't uncommon back then to swap out those celestions for JBLs. Duane Allman did it, and he's not the only one from the 70s to do so. Also, the story about those aluminum dust cap speakers being radio shack speakers - I kinda doubt that one. I was around in the 70s and I remember going into radio shack and seeing their replacement guitar speakers. They did have an aluminum dust cap, but it also had the felt, 1/2" circle in the center - much like the Eminence speakers back then. So, that's not what was in Ed's cabinets. My vote is JBL or the Altecs like Randy Rhoads used. But again, we'll never really know....
Hi Jim! I am tone chasing on my Germino plexi myself and I have some questions about the changes you’ve made for this video: you mention cranking the bias at 66v Can you mention what the bias is specifically? Are you not setting it at 105v anymore and letting the bias go cold as you lower it to 66V? Also, can you comment on your preamp, PI, screen and mains filtering sizes? Awesome job! Thx
Hey Turbo! So, I set the bias all kinds of ways when I'm experimenting. But if I do set the bias to 50mA (50mV) at 105 volts on the variac (essentially 360 volts on the plates) - this is the Dave Friedman "method," or how he did it with Ed's amp - my particular bias pot, is almost physically maxed at that point. I basically can't get much lower than -50mV...I can probably get it to about -56mV, and then I can't physically turn the pot any further. If I wanted more, I'd need to change out the bias feed resistor. So, what I guess I'm trying to say, is that when I crank the bias pot, and the amp is running at 66 volts, it's pointless to measure. It's extremely low...I think the last time I looked when I was at that low, AC voltage, I'm thinking my bias at idle was probably something like -12mV. But, that's kind of the point. As you continually drop the voltage of the amp, the bias goes colder and colder. I don't think it's an accident that both the Peavey 5150 and the EVH 5150 have a very cold bias. That's part of the tone - especially with the Marshall. Cold tube heaters and cold bias are a huge part of that tone. Otherwise, you might as well just use a power scale kit that only brings down the B+ on the amp. But those Power Scaled amps don't sound like a power starved Marshall Super Lead - Hope all that makes sense.... As to my filtering: filtering is 2] 100uf's f&t in series mains 2] 32uf's f&t in series screens 1]100uf lcr phase inverter 1] dual 33 x 33 f&t preamp
@@jegauss Thanks so much! That what exactly the info I was hoping for. My Germino is a 50watter and I’ve had to go to the 2700r on V1b to reduce bottom end flub. I’m hoping stiffer filtration will help some too. 👍🏼
@@TurboE30M3 Don't get me wrong, I like the 3H choke and the 5H choke (mine originally had a 5H) - But, for the VH tone, he's got a 10H in the '68. That was actually the general spec when Marshall was transitioning models in the '67 - '71 period. And, I believe it's standard on the JCM stuff, too. The choke, as far as "how does it sound, and how does it affect tone," it's very similar to what filter caps do. If you get ghosted notes, and and maybe a little more hum, general noise in the amp - anyway, the 10H will get rid of the ghost notes, and tighten up the "looseness" of the amp a little. If you keep the filtering "period correct / '68-ish," you'll still get that great sag, but you'll lose some of that looseness and those ghost notes, and weird artifacts due to power supply noise.
2 questions. 1) with the variac, how many decibels does it take away with 60 volts. If they were playing clubs I’d assume it’s -20db or more 2) will we ever get a Van Halen live tone? I’m curious to see how different the tone is due to Eddie leaving his main Marshall Plexi back home Keep rocking Jim 🤘
60v is very quiet. I don’t have a db meter, but in the room it’s a huge volume drop. This is nowhere near as good as Jim’s but 60v is soooooo much fun! ua-cam.com/video/m0be2IqIQ1Y/v-deo.html
Every amp is different - some won't run as low as 60 volts - mine does, along with one of my other Plexis. However, a couple of my other amps won't run at that voltage. But, to answer your question, the last time I did this with a db meter, I want to say I was right around 94 db - that was running at about 71 volts. When I play live, in clubs or theaters, I'm able to run the amp between that 66 - 76 volts and I "keep up" with the drummer. and 66 volts, the cymbals start to bury the guitar and it's almost too quiet....it's still loud by today's club, "expected" volume levels, but I get away with it. As far as a VH live tone goes....I think that would be a mission of me chasing my tail. We don't have any idea how the live tones were recorded, if they were eq'd in post, etc...The wireless units changed the tone, he stopped using the Echoplex for live use (pretty sure on the 2nd tour), and he used new-ish Marshall Super Leads. Which, in all honesty, don't sound too much different than my "favorite" Super Lead that I do all of these videos with. I'd do a video like that, if I had a known recording source / technique. Otherwise, I don't think we'd learn much. The studio is controlled, we can make mic'ing assumptions, we have a pretty solid idea of which amp was used, which speaker cabinet, etc...but honestly, I would bet his live sound, was not so much different than his sound he went into the studio with. The way it's processed between the two environments is the problem. Anyway, hope that makes sense - Thanks for watching!
I don't know if Eddie was aware of JBL speakers being wired reversed (positive is negative and vice versa) from Celestion. It could have change mic positioning because of phase issue between both types of speaker.
Of course, Eddie was Amazeballs... but let's not forget that DLR had to come up with lyrics, melodies and hooks to these amazing crazy Riffs. When I hear you play these songs acapella, I think... WTF would you put on top of this vocally? DLR killed it 👏
Wow, man what a great sound. It's the closest VH thing I ever heard. Could you give some information about the specs of your fantastic guitar? Especially some from the neck. I know you got this from Warmoth. Which nut and frets you use? Thank you so much. All the best from Austria, Jakob.
Hey Kirk! Thanks! You know I probably could apply a spectrum analyzer and compare, but I always have to decide what goes in the video or not...I ramble so much, and there's always so much information to include in these things, that I end up editing so much out to begin with...it's a good idea, and I'll consider doing something like that in future videos.
Hard to say - you'd probably need to buy a mid-70s Marshall 4x12. I would reach out to Greg Ginter at Guitar Shop of Wisconsin (they're in Madison). He's got quite a collection of vintage Marshall stuff.
Great video…Absolutely great VH tones…I think you have gotten as close as humanly possible to that sound….Awesome chops too..Can’t wait for the Diver Down/1984 tones…..
Thank you, Scott!
I totally agree!
The word identical comes to mind. Its baffling.
Seeing so many JBL/ brown sound video sparked a memory.I worked at Dr Music in Pasadena where Edward shopped and was sent out to a music store in SF valley and got a pair of JBL's.I wasn't told they were specifically for Edward but we didn't sell speakers so I'm assuming they were.That was corroborated by someone close to the VH camp...JBL's brown sound...99.99999%
This is Brian Kehew; I went thru all the early VH tapes. There were always two channels of guitar.
The 1st album alone has a certain sound. There were always two channels of guitar recorded, tracked at exactly the same time. One was dark and thick (like your black back sound) and the other had a bright fizz on the top. Combining the two of those sounds to get a made the guitar sound of the first album.
At the time I had a 1966 100 watt plexi Marshall. I had the matching cabinet with greenback celestials, pre-Rola. There is no way a stock Marshall and a celestion speaker makes the top end fizz that I heard off that single channel. I knew that Ed had been pictured with JBL speakers in one of his cabinets during this period. And it sounded exactly like that fizzy sound that JBLs make on the high end - which is why nobody else likes to use them!
Remember that a 12-inch speaker is basically just a woofer. It has no real high-end at all, if you took a three-way speaker cabinet and unplugged the mid-range and the Tweeter - that is the 12-inch bass speaker filter that we are used to from guitar cabinets. I have only heard a few jazz people make use of JBL speakers, it usually doesn't work well for distortion because of the ugly high end. But when mixed with something fat and Rich like the other channel, in this one case it makes a very silvery shimmering guitar tone.
I stand by my theory that the JBLs were used on the first album alone, and the other albums do not have that tone.
You have done a phenomenal job with recreating Eddie's tone on the first album, well done. 👌🏼
Thank you!
The tones you are getting out of your rig now are fantastic! Dead on to my ears. I wouldn’t change a single thing 🤘
Thank you! I very much appreciate that!
@@jegauss I have been trying to find the right cabinet Eddie van halen used for the brown sound and there are 3 of them the Marshall 1960bx Marshall 1960bv and the Marshall 1960bhw do you know the exact one he used Jim?
very cool. I always found it funny that a sound that eddie was very publically unhappy with, would become so iconic as to spur on so many to do such surgical deep dives to find out the why's and how's. He must've had more than a few good giggles at it, but also felt so proud at the same time. Legend.
I agree....that's a weird "dichotomy" that was going on with Ed. That iconic sound, that launched his career, he hated....
Damn!!! That has to be the most authentic VH tone!!! Just amazing!
Thank you! I appreciate it!
Really appreciate these addenda and updates on your ideas about how to hit these tones. JBLs for me. Tanner’s video was really great though. We’ll never be 100% sure. Awesome that you are testing these things for us, sounds amazing. CANNOT WAIT for Diver Down and 1984 stuff.
Thank you, Chandler! I agree on the JBLs, but as I said in the video, I think they all "qualify as that sound." I think Tanner's video is pretty convincing, too.
Thank you so much for all your hard work. I love your videos and all the great insight. For what it’s worth I think he did use the JBL d120f’s on the first record. It just adds a little top end clarity. Thanks again!!!
Thank you, Chris! Thanks for watching!
Love it, Jim! And my favorite part is how you got the "bounce" on "I'm The One". Very, very tricky and nobody ever gets that right. Bravo!
Thank you, Steve! I really appreciate that!
@@jegauss You are very welcome, Jim. You deserve it! Love your channel.
I know man…like I know I play it right, but you are correct that it’s hard to get “right” sound/delay wise. Jim has the best tones I have ever heard…using the REAL gear!!
Jim you’re probably the only one I’ve ever heard who plays I’m The One with the swing like it’s supposed to…Ed’s sense of swing on their hyper speed boogies was epic and you sir NAILED it!!
Love these deep dives!
Holy moly if you didn't capture the brown sound, I don't know who can. They say that it was in his fingers, I say it is in yours too. Your playing is just as good as his was on that first album. Amazing, best I have seen and heard ever replicated.. YOU NAILED IT
Wow! Thank you, Andy! Those are some very kind words. I really appreciate it!
There’s an interesting detail about the solo on Aint Talkin Bout Love. If any of you’ve read Ted Templemans book you hopefully caught that detail. As soon as you know this and listen back it suddenly stands out.
And also great job on this new video. Outstanding as always Jim.
The electric sitar? Thank you!
@@jegauss yep you got it. Yeah f course you know.
When I heard your first vid I thought something was missing. Couldn't tell you what but my ears knew. With this vid, I think you are spot on. Nailed it! Excellent work.
Thanks! yeah, I agree - that's why we call this the rabbit hole 😉 Thank you for watching and jumping in!
Man I really dig your deep research into EVH's sound. I definitely feel that you've gotten the closest to nailing it perfectly. I can't thank you enough for these videos! Such a pleasure to watch 👊👊
Thank you, Peter! I appreciate it!
Jim, as usual awesome video. Exploring the lore around what created an indelible mark on all of us is fascinating. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and talent. I got goose bumps on the last three songs with new amp/variac settings and pickup! I was going to be productive today but now I am going to have to tinker with some stuff in the basement for at least part of the day! Saw Tim H. play yesterday and he said he was coming out to see you later. Keep the vids coming.
Hey Arlyn! Good to hear from you! And, thank you! I hope your tinkering was a success 😉 Yep, Tim is coming down in September. It's been awhile since he's been able to plug into an old, Marshall Super Lead...I think he's going to love it. And, I'll probably ruin him for anything else. But, I am digging his 2 x Fender Deluxe setup. I've always said, if I were doing the nightly gig thing, and hauling my own stuff, and playing relatively smallish clubs / honky Tonks, I'd be playing a Deluxe Reverb. They're just great little amps...give Kim a hug for me, and I'm thinking you guys are due for another trip to Nashville........?
Thanks Jim! You da man! Your series has been so inspiring. FWIW....after your earlier vids, we chatted on Fb. I mentioned that I sought out a Weber repro of a D-120 "type." In my tests, it honestly made a noticeable difference. It adds a certain bite that I wasn't getting with just Greenies. So, thanks for this one too. These things give me the outlet I need! Thanks again!
Hey Tom! Thank you! Glad that Weber worked for you. Which model did you go with?
@@jegauss Hi Jim- It's the NeoMag 12 with aluminum dome.
@@tfbattag Thanks - good to know. I think when I tried the Weber route a number of years ago, it was recommended that I go with the Weber California. They just didn't sound that close to a JBL to me. But the Neo sounds much more like it. At least the magnet is much closer to the actual JBL.
Waking up and seeing this video and your past videos, is almost like Christmas as a child. Brilliant @Jim Gaustad! Thanks for doing this. My buddies and I use to do stuff similar to this, but no were near the magnitude of your videos, of course! I'm still in the JBL camp. I really think he used those JBLs. They really have that upper high sizzle.
Thanks Rik! I'm glad you enjoy these vids...I have a lot of fun doing them. And, I'm always learning, refining, and discovering new things. It's a great way to stay playing, and stay sharp. I miss playing live and touring, but I'm getting too old for that lifestyle anymore. I think it'd be fun for about 3 weeks, then I'd go "oh yeah, I remember...this isn't exactly the glamorous life." Anyway, thanks again! I very much appreciate it!
@@jegauss I know the feeling regarding playing live. I'm in a band here in south Florida, Havoc 305. We play 4-5 nights a week. Not too late, usually done by 11pm and I have a day job. Sometimes I wake up in the morning thinking damn wish I would of gone to sleep earlier lol. I love it but yeah, I'm starting to feel it at my 57 years. Take care Jim! Thanks for the reply.
Jim! Another awesome and fully-detailed video with those awesome EVH tones, and for a little bonus we got to hear some of your talented licks also!
I agree with you on the speaker choice. And the tones of your sample music sounded even closer than before!
You are the EVH tone wizard!
I'm very excited to hear your next projects! Hope life is treating you exceptionally well!
You Rock my friend!
Thank you, Doug! As always, I appreciate the kind words.
you and pete thorn are the only ones who get THE brown sound so right, esp the VH1 tone, that raw powerful fizziness, that icey top end but nice full and smooth mushiness to it, and that nice wubbly low end in the lower registers. no one compares at this level
Thank you! Very kind and much appreciated!
Excellent buddy! I do agree that the Celestion/JBL combo sounds the closest and as I have said, I don’t think it would be prudent to completely dismiss that idea. I know Tanner says it is unlikely that Eddie would switch speakers around in that time frame around the recording of the album and the photos from the gigs surrounding that, but it is not impossible that he did!
Thanks Allen! Yeah, we've discussed it...we'll never really know, but it sure is fun trying to figure it all out! Keeps us old guys sharp!
I think the proof is in the pudding. It’s totally the JBLs…
@@RavenGuitar As our friend Tanner and Jim have pointed out correctly, the JBL D120F/Blackback or Greenback combination is not a 100% proven fact. At this point, it can neither be eliminated from consideration or completely taken as fact.
@@AllenGarberGuitarFun I didn’t say it was a proven fact. However, The fact there is no 100% indisputable evidence to settle the issue means one can say that about anything. If you listen to the raw guitar track off of UA-cam - the difference is much greater than what can be heard in Jim’s videos. My ears tell me it’s clearly JBLs. But it could be anything (because there is no proof). As I said : the proof is in the pudding: the sound. My ears have a conclusive winner.
@@RavenGuitar You may not have heard the actual individual speaker tracks that Jim, Tanner and myself are talking about, but they are worth hearing. There might eventually be 100% proof that settles it for good around the corner…the are always new things that come to light. I’m just advising you to keep an open mind.
Always enjoy your deep dives videos. Keep them coming!
Thanks, Robert!
Man, Jim! That is absolutely IT!!!. The little changes make sense….I’m blown away even more that I was first time…thank you SO much for makin us Geeks so friggin happy….feel free to do ANYTHING brother. I think you certainly have peoples attention. Maybe later on you could dive into early Randy Rhodes…not my favorite tone but very recognizable. Either way man…I’ve never heard ANYBODY get this as good as you have. Fan for life !!
Hey Don! Thanks a bunch! I really appreciate it!
my respects you did a great job ! ........I showed up at Eddies place to deliver flowers to Valerie back in 1988..as i worked for a hollywood flower shop back then......unfortunatley Eddie wasnt there....so close yet so far away... ! I did meet Jose Aredondo..also.....he was great super nice guy .....I got so close but no cigar......as far as rubbing elbows....I did meet him one time during a Peavey event at House of Blues Hollywood.....in 1993 or 94...so long ago..we met shooke hands...but it was all really quick.....as far as Van Halen One tones I believe your as close as anybody will ever get......there are others who have gotten close....your tips and tricks are excellent again my respects...Happy New Year 2023 !
Thank you very much! Happy New Year to you, too!
Woke up, hop on UA-cam and a new video about the Brown Sound is out! Great way to start the day! :D
Thanks for watching!
Good to see the professor back.
Cheers Jim 🍷
Thank you!
Jim!!! Absolutely great video! Thank you for all you do! Killer tones as always. This is the closest to VH 1 I’ve ever heard. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I’ve been itching for a Marshall like that, and a variac. Your videos have helped me immensely with my pursuit of early VH tone! 🎉🎉🎉
Thank you Joshua! I appreciate it!
Pure Gold, the playing as well!
Thank you!
Man what a way to wake up in the morning..I’m in the kitchen getting coffee Tryin anyway you’re YouTubing on my tv I had to look around the corner because it’s that close to the man himself🔥🔥Thanks For The Morning Brain Damage 👍EVH FOREVER ✌️p.s. people like you keep memories alive…
Thank you! Very much appreciated!
Absolutely dialed in! if you came out tomorrow and said “just kidding I’m just “finger syncing” to Ed’s raw track” I’d believe it! Just amazing!
Ha! Thank you! I really appreciate that!
if i close my eyes, it sounds like isolated guitar tracks of VH I, you figured it out, you the boss!
Thank you!
Oy, the rabbit hole is confusing! Eddie knew how to mess with everyone and stay PRO! Good job and Kudos to Eddie!
Agreed! Thank you, Peter!
Just insane in all the right ways.
I hear the JBL. It's there. I love your Ed nerdness you old rockin coot. Never stop these vids. Totally awesome.
Yeah, I do too! Thank you for watching my stuff - much appreciated!
Great work and musicianship I can only image the incredible hard work and hours honing your craft!
Thank you! I really appreciate it!
I'm so happy about the way those blackbacks sound in your recordings, everyone is dumping them to get smaller onstage I was able to get a lot of loaded cabs cheap 400-700 a cab
I was wondering if you can do a video on the 1984 evh tone. Would appreciate it. Love the content. Keep up the great work👍
I hope he remembers Eddie used a Gibson Flying V on hot for teacher
Yessssss 1984 tone!
and drop dead legs and girl gone bad...not sure on house of pain, yet.....😉
Working on it right now....trust me, it's a handful, but I've been testing now for a few weeks...still have a lot to do with that one.
It's great to see you (and hear you) back in action Jim! Great video, great sound and playing as ever! 🔝🤩🎸 Diver Down? 1984?? Can't wait for them!!! 🤟🏻😎🎊💥
Thank you, Luca!
That early Evh sound you get is spot on . Excellent job as usual ! Thanks man !
@@jpallen3673 Thanks JP!
An addendum to my first 👏🏻 for this video:
Jimmy you’ve been second to none in all of your helpful unpacking of all things Ed. Your Research and demonstration is invaluable for all the Ed heads…!
My Canadian penny in all of this- I definitely 'Do NOT’ hear the sound with just greens. The tonal difference between what you A / B’d is night and day.
I use a 70’s green (top) and black (bottom) in a 212. The blacks, imo, has an EQ to them on their own that sounds right. Especially the … 🤔 ... What is it? The 004 or 003 cones?
But mixed with the JBL… 😗👌🏼
The 20w evh celestions sound nice as well.
But all the rest of your changes and mentions about the pickup and pot and running the amp…
Again I say on behalf of all the folks here-
👏🏻 second to none.
Thank you*
Thank you, Jamie! I love those Blackbacks - not sure which cones I have, I haven't had those cabinets apart in years, but I remember, way back in the early 80s, I had a blackback cabinet that was just so much better than the rest of the cabinets I had. It was the one that always got mic'd live, and always went into the studio with me. I don't know why I ended up selling it (most likely "broke musician disease"), but I did, and I've always regretted it. That's why, somewhere around 2005 I scooped up a stack of those mid-late 70s black backs.....I love them, and after doing this video, I've just rotated them into the favorite cabinet status. 😉
Thank you, again!
Love all your VH stuff🤘 Spill the beans about what’s coming up next👍
Thank you! Right now, I'm working on Diver Down and 1984 - they're both really different - both done at different studios (Diver Down was done at Amigo Studios, and '84, obviously, at 5150). So, it's considerably more difficult to make assumptions on the equipment being used....but, I'm working on it.
@@jegauss Thanks for the reply. I already know they’ll both be great😎
Holy shit, I’m the One segment was spot on, incredible tone
Thank you, Dan!
Wow that was amazing. Its like listening to Eddie. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Luis!
Jim your are the EVH expert!!
Ha! Thank you, Michael!
Great video 👍🏻
I like the spring on your strap very cool 🤘🏼
Fairfield Guitar! It's called "the Bomber Strap."
Information overload…… awesome and thanks for all you do. Cheers 🍻
Thank you!
Another great job, Jim. We really do appreciate your scholarly approach to this topic. It's strange to deconstruct what was, more than likely, just Eddie and the engineers "going for it!".
A request: At some point when you get to it in the history, could you talk about how Eddie's tone changed when he dropped the Floyd in? I cannot remember the source exactly, but he definitely talked about it being a trade-off in a magazine. His live tone got really bright after that, and I know he wasn't too wild about it.
Thanks for your efforts.
-Paul
Thank you, Paul! I've touched on the floyd, and how it affected tone, (although, not in depth), across a few of these videos - but, I think between the wireless thinning out the sound, and the floyd, not having as much body contact as the standard tremolo bridge, led to that really bright, live tone. That, and he was using "new" Marshalls live, which are probably slightly harsher than his usual 12301 Super Lead that was used for all of the albums until he moved on to the Soldano...but, back to the floyd - I think when the 5150 guitar retired the Frankenstein, I believe he had built out the tremolo cavity with a thin slice of wood that the oversized block contacted. That gave him more bridge / body contact, and that guitar ended up being warmer...
Love this stuff!!! Can’t wait for Diver Down video!
Thank you, Jim!
Hahah again, in love with the VH tone. Thank you for doing this for those of us who don’t have the resources to do so. Interesting about the 60 volts. I’ve had mine at 90 and tried to go lower but under 75 my amp shut off. However, I didn’t rebias them before. I recently did since I just got a Sylvania 6CA7 off EBay (had to jump on it for $80!) and thinking it may be able to go that low since my power tubes were reading 13 mA! when they were at 90 lol. Jeeez.
Hey Eric! Yeah, for me, it's typically the preamp tubes that give up before the outputs. The bias doesn't really keep them working any longer, it's more about tone. It's the heater voltage (or lack thereof, that makes the amp fade away....every amp is a little different. I have a couple that don't like to go below 73 volts, the others (3 more), will go to 60 and one of them, a 76 metal face, goes to 54 volts.
Update: just checked, amp works at that range but the power indicator light for some reason requires 75 volts or more to work lol idk. But omg! When playing, especially a song like Little Dreamer (the beginning riff with that pop sound on the A string; I pluck it actually like a bass) pops so much more at a lower voltage! This is the essence to the “brown sound”. I’m so stoked and thank you for bringing this up!
@@jegauss nice! That makes sense. And 54 volts?! Lol the delay or response after hitting a note must be like a second haha
@@VanHalenIsolated Oh yeah, absolutely - Ed said he used to set the amp so the pilot would just barely be on, and then hit the open G string, it would go out completely. It varies per amp, but that's usually between 68 and 75 volts. And so now, you're discovering, the 90 volt thing is a bunch of nonsense 😉 It was always much lower than that. I've been running that way for years, but it took me a long time to believe that Ed was doing that, because everyone kept repeating the 90 volt "thing." Including Dave Friedman and George Metropoulus. They even built amps with the 90 volt "variac" switch....yes, Ed may have eventually turned it up to that, but in the early days, the first 5 or 6 albums, I believe it was always in the 68 volt range...anyway, have fun with it. The amp is a whole new thing when you get down there, as you're discovering.
@@VanHalenIsolated That's what they mean when they say "it has a certain saggy squishy feel to it." 😊
Hi Jim, thanks for another great video.
Thank you, Jorge!
Thank you very much, for your time and effort. Great job! 🙋🏻♂️
Thank you, and thanks for watching!
Great sounds and playing! You've got I'm the one down Holmes!
excellent playing..that's the main thing..sounds real good
Thank you!
Wow you really know youre stuff . this tone sounds just like the sound i got back in the mid 70's with my ibanez destroyer with the super 70's thru my marshall 100 w plxi 68. Model just crank the amp . i still have one of the pickups now im thinking of useing it in one of my guitars again after all these years ha ha great show mate cheers love V H
Thanks Jerry! Hard to go wrong with an Ibanez Destroyer / Super 70 and a cranked '68 plexi......that's the combo right there!
We'll never know for sure if Ed ever used blackbacks, but I think they're great for VH stuff. Tighter in the bass than greenbacks, not as middy, and more aggressive in the high end. They help to keep things tight when the variac is turned down. They blend well with greenbacks and could even serve as a substitute for the JBL's to some extent because of their aggressive high end.
Agreed! They've always been my favorite...
The tone with the blk/wht guitar sounds amazing!
Thank you, Bill!
I think having an lil saturation from the mixing desk and saturation from the tape would add the missing artifacts in the tone youre looking for. Great Job btw!
Thank you for this! JBL definitely! I was surprised as to how good the black back sounded. I wonder what the black back with the jbl would sound like though.
Hey Walter! Thank you! Yeah, the blackback / JBL is probably "it." I just didn't feel like opening up cabinets and swapping stuff around at this point. But, I know what my favorite cabinet is now, for everything "not Van Halen 1." It's going to be the black backs from now on. The green back cabinet goes to no. 2. Thanks for watching!
@@jegauss Either way it sounds amazing and I appreciate the quest for tone. Looking forward to all other videos
Hi Jim, great demo and tones as always and truly believe JBL’s were used in combo with Greenbacks from hours of listening to VHI and what you have just proven! Ahhh Tanner Yorden! I remember having a heated discussion on the use of JBL’s on VHI where be argued that “He and the other members of the VH group disagree” lol! I mean even Pete Thorn and Dave Friedman think JBL’s were in the mix! Anyway great vid and thanks!
Thanks Steve! Yeah, I hear you....although, I do think that Tanner's evidence is pretty convincing. But I also know, growing up in the 70s, a lot of guys were also putting JBL D120s in their Marshall cabinets. In fact the first professional gig I ever played (I was 12), back in '78, I borrowed a Marshall 50 watt 2x12 combo - it had been "upgraded" with two JBL D120s. So, there's really no telling what Ed did going into the studio...he very well may have dumped the JBLs into a slant box....we'll never know, but I certainly lean towards those JBLs being in the mix for the first album. Thanks again for watching and jumping in to the conversation!
@@jegauss Your welcome and always great talking! I also have to say I think you have the answer on what pickups were in the Destroyer!
Need to make some IR captures for us to buy! Sounds fantastic! 👍
Thank you! I'm working on a process for that, to capture the "post" guitar sound, along with what's coming out of the speaker cabinet...we'll see if it's successful.
Jim you did it again 👏
Thank you!
Great Jim!….what a journey!
Thanks Gonzalo!
@@jegauss right back at you!…for that time spent and shared on EVh nerd Realm that we all live!
Another awesome video!! More, please!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank you, Darrin!
Really looking forward to " Runaround" That sucker ROCKS.
Believe it or not, that one was recorded with a Fender Telecaster.
@@jegauss My favorite is the "Free" Dallas concert , you can check it out on UA-cam.
Jim, wonderful video and playing !!!! I have been failing at getting that tone for years, you have it bang on. I would love to replicate your rig and redo my “I’m the One” cover…anyway rock on and thanks for sharing this great info!
Thank you, Kirk! I really appreciate that! Good luck in your quest!
Fascinating stuff for us EVH nerds. The Greenbacks alone are not the secret to the tone I don’t think. VH I has a sizzle to it that the Greenbacks don’t offer. Those upper mids are gone for the VH II tone. I think it’s the JBL but the Blackback gets you there too.
Have you tried the Fryette power station? I haven’t tried that unit yet but it seems to be the best option out there in terms of keeping your tone at home volumes. The variac was such an early attempt at taming insane volume levels…Eddie has given us so much as guitar players, every guitar and tech innovation he seems to have had some sort of influence. I miss the guy so much.
Thank you, Carlo! Yes, I have tried the Fryette Power Station. I like it, but it's overkill for me. I wouldn't use it live, because I do the variac "thing" live. It works well for me, and I generally really dislike the sound of an attenuator. Plus, the Fryette uses it's own amplifier for output. It's great for the right circumstances, just not for me. Honestly, I think the cleanest, easiest, truest form of attenuation, is a combo of variac, PPIMV, and turning the main volume down a little if you're attenuating heavily. Otherwise, you get that "over compressed, fizzy type of sound. Here at home, in the studio, I just use an old, Marshall Power Brake when I don't feel like playing loud. I can make a couple of minor tone tweaks / turn volume one down on the amp to about 8, and I get pretty close to the full-up tone that I play with live, or when recording / doing these videos.
And yes, I really miss him, too. Hard to believe he's no longer with us. I most likely wouldn't be doing these videos if he was still with us. I started doing them, sort of as a tribute to him and his genius...
Like you said, when isolated, it could really go either way. There are so many factors that go into recording speakers (grill cloth, a/b cabs, the slightest movement in mic position, etc.) IMO, both the solo’d blackback and JBL sound equally close to the original bright track, just in different ways. I would be interested to hear how a change in mic position would affect the green/blackbacks i.e. putting the mic directly in the center rather than cap edge. Maybe that’s why they are lacking the high mid-high range? Great great video. This is the most informative test i’ve heard yet.
Hey Tanner! I agree with you - I'm not sure we proved or disproved anything. I think all of those cabinets "qualify as that tone." But, I don't think it's mic placement - trust me, I tried 3-4 days of different mic positions, recorded them all, listened, eq'd, etc....I did do the mic position that you suggest - way too bright, you can't pull enough high-end out on the channel eq - you could in post, but not on the "input to tape" like the reference tracks. Anyway, the mic positions I ended up with were certainly tested thoroughly and then I used tape measure, and a builder's square, to line them up exactly on each cabinet. So, I'm not thinking mic placement...however, what I do think affects it more than I can compensate for, is the real analog API console, the real, hardware 1176 compressors, and real tape machines...I can only get so close in the digital realm. But, I did manage to get as close as I think I'll ever get.
Anyway, thanks for the inspiration to do this video - it was fun, and again, I learned a bunch - always do when I start moving mics around and messing with these little parameters that all affect the outcome. I think we made a pretty good team!
@@jegauss I figured that you did a lot of testing behind the scenes. It was definitely enlightening to hear that the JBL is closer than I thought! Thanks for pumping these videos out so quick
@@tanneryordan thanks for giving me the excuse to do another one on VH 1. I also wanted to present where I was probably “wrong” on my first video with the amp / pickup info - so your video gave me the perfect spring board to do the follow up.
Nice job you put a lot of time in And to share it too Thank you
Thanks Bob!
How do you get the distortion or what you want to call it It has a buzzsaw tone Like Running wt Devil My 100 watt Plexi sounds clean and so loud Do you think he had a small booster like a LPB1 hidden Sorry to bother you
@@bobbarcus8310 Hey Bob! So, so much of that depends on your amp - are you running a variac?, If so, how low do you dial it? Where is the bias set, what type of output tubes...etc...preamp tubes are a huge part of it. I've got vintage Sylvania 12ax7s in mine - there is a huge difference compared to other sets - So, you kinda need to find a good set of preamps, one by one, and which one sounds best in which position. It's tedious, and you need a pretty big selection of 12ax7s....But no, I'm sure he didn't use a booster - if his amp was anything like mine, it's almost got too much "gain / distortion." If it's none of the above, it could be too much filtering, or bad filtering. The choke value could be too high, and finally it comes down to the output transformer - unfortunately, sometimes those are the luck of the draw, unless you go aftermarket and get a Merren, or Mercury Magnetics, etc....
Hope that helps a little....
@@jegauss I have a late 1993 RI 100 watt Plexi It was one of the first in Ca I use NOS Holland mini watts And Chinese 6CA7 that I hand picked I do not have a variac And I only use a old bandmaster cab in 60 watt WHS I was thinking of lowering the filter caps in preamp and phaseinverter The 50/50 seem overkill So lower voltage with variac and then Fresno the bias I always thought that the small knob in back on his #1 was to turn the bias so you didn’t have to take it out of cab head Thanks for you time Bob
Jim thank you so much for all of this wonderful content! You have these tones NAILED! I wonder if you could comment on (or let me know if you have somewhere else) the EVH Gear offerings -- the wolfgang, the 5150III -- have you ever played them, and are you able to dial in vintage EVH tones with this equipment? Honestly I've not seen any videos of that....the tones are the "modern" EVH sound, but they market it as "the brown sound"...would love to hear your take! Thanks again.
and I guess I'd also be interested in your take on the Frankenstein and Wolfgang pickups....have you ever tried them?
Thank you Michael! You know, I've tried the EVH amplifiers - didn't like them much, at least for the more vintage VH tones. I couldn't get there with those amps. I had better luck in the early - mid 90s with the Peavey 5150. I owned a couple of those, and the combo. Did some recording with the heads (through Marshall 4x12s), and played live with them for awhile. I liked those better - they were like the Soldano SLO 100. Which was more like a high gain Marshall. But, you could dial the gain back and still get that classic sound. I've played the Wolfgang guitars, both the Peavey and the EVH. They're really great instruments - I don't own one, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to get one if I felt like I needed another guitar 😉
As far as the pickups go, I've never tried one of the Wolfgang pickups, but I've tried and used the EVH Frankenstein pickup - I think that pickup is good for the later albums - I haven't had any luck with it in trying to get the earlier album sounds - it could work on Fair Warning and Diver Down - and probably 1984, too - but there aren't a lot of Frankenstein songs on 1984. Only Panama and House of Pain, along with some assorted solos on the album.
Thanks again for watching, and jumping into the conversation!
Wow, pretty interesting. I have an alnico 2 rated around 9.2K or so in my VH guitar. Killer playing as always, sounds pretty on point to me.
Thank you! That's a good all around pickup for the VH stuff. It should cover most, if not all eras pretty convincingly.
Amazing! Agree with your ears, jbl sounded closer. Blown away how close this sounds.
Thank you!
Hi Jim, Billy Sheehan told me that George Lynch has Eddie’s cab from VH1. It definitely has a JBLD120 in it. Also, Wall of Sound has a VH IR based off Lynch’s cab. Would be interesting to compare your reference track against your rig with that IR
Yeah, I've heard that, too. I honestly go back and forth on the theory - I can get pretty darn close either way. One of these days, I suppose I ought to embrace all of this technology that allows me to use IRs, and models, etc...but, I'm pretty old school. And if stop doing the old school stuff, there's not many of us left anymore 😉
Sounds great!
Thanks Jimmy!
Thank you so much for doing these videos! It's like an archaeological dig into the past. So fascinating! But there's one thing that is keeping me up at night and no one's talking about it. Am I hearing a G-flat in the intro of Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love? It's giving me nightmares and I can't sleep!
Thank you for watching, and you're very welcome! Yes, no more nightmares for you - on the G-string / wiggle stick / slide up, I didn't quite make the G at the 12th fret - it's a Gb. I knew it when I did it, but just decided to leave it in the spirit of "hey, it's live!" 😉
@@jegauss Sorry! I mean hitting the 2nd fret on low E during the intro riff. (Technically an F with Eb tuning). Maybe I've been playing it wrong!! Oh the nightmares in my head! 🙃
@@BrainFever Nah, I just don't hear it that way 🧐 I'm hearing the palm muted G / almost a "grace note." But, I could be wrong....I should probably find a close-up live video of Ed playing it.....just to be sure!
I can tell you at The Whiskey Ed was playing so loud, I would stand in front of his setup and my ears would be ringing for 2-3 days afterward, he was louder than anyone else I saw back then.
I believe it. I still play with a half stack when I go out and play live. I don't use an attenuator, just the variac - even down at 60-70 volts, when that cabinet is pointing right at you, it's still pretty loud.
Great work Jim. If you were to hypothetically conduct this experiment again but using IRs instead of a micced cab, are there any that you would recommend? Cheers!
Amazing Job 👏 9.8 👌
I'm hearing noticeably more top end on the reference tracks than either of the green or black back versions, especially Ed's JBL. I know this is pretty subjective. To me, Ed's JBL sounds somewhat more broad in range, more airy. Nice technical breakdown, Jim. Like you said, they're so close it's hard to tell. Thanks for the vid.
Hey Max! Yeah, that's interesting - I hear the reference tracks as more "narrow" in bandwidth. I just had another guy comment that the tracks I recorded needed more bottom 100-120hz rolled out. I think mine are borderline thin on the bottom - at least the Greenback cabinet is. So much is what you're listening with - my monitors are "pink-noised / spectrum analyzed" and flat in my room, plus the headphones don't really reveal that, either. But, what I will say, I think what you're hearing on the VH tracks, the fullness, and air, is a direct effect of the real, API console, the real hardware 1176 compressors, and the magic of real tape. It's hard for me to emulate all of that in a total digital world, but I try to get as close as possible. But there's definitely some "magic" that gets imparted on Ed's tracks for sure - I love the convenience of digital, but I sure miss recording to tape in a complete analog studio....😉
What speaker do you think is better for the early EVH sound. The current Celestion G12M Greenback or The G12EVH branded speaker in the current 4x12 cabs?
Hey Craig! That's a tough one, but I'm going to lean towards the EVH 20 watter.
outstanding
18:09 What interview is it that you're mentioning about Ed's sound being brighter in the room?
It's been quoted a few times - Michael Anthony made the statement - something about "the sound wasn't all that, and it was pretty bright in the room." I forget where to find it, but I've read it several times throughout the years.
Amazing dedication to the tone search Jim! To me, it's clearly the mix JBL/Celestion cab that sounds perfect - thicker, yet middy. And the playing at the end was spot-on! 60 volts? How loud is that in the room?
Hey Andy! Thank you! I actually ran the voltage at 66 volts for this video. Volume-wise, it's about perfect for playing with a live drummer. And actually, when I play with my brother (he's a pretty hard hitter), he can actually drown me out when the amp is a 66 volts. With him, I usually need to set the variac to about 76 volts. Then I'm pretty evenly balanced with the drum kit. But, we run in-ear monitors when we play live, so to make it easy on the front of house guy, I usually keep it at 66-68 volts. They can send a little more guitar back at us in the monitors....it all works out well. 😉
Did you ever measure what the bias was with the pot cranked and the Variac at 66 volts?
Yes - It's very "cold" in relation to the plate voltage / dissipation. The plate voltage is probably somewhere in the 250 vdc range and the bias is probably somewhere between 7ma-12ma. I say probably, because I've measured all of that so many times, that I don't remember specifically, but definitely in that range.
Could it be 75 hz and 55 hz Blackbacks? One miked on 75 hz and one miked on the 55 hz speaker.
Sure, it could be...it could also be the 2 black backs, or a lot of different things. What I can't account for / compete with is the API console, hardware 1176 compressors, real tape, etc....I think I do Ok trying to emulate all of that, but at some point, all that great analog gear, is going to impart some "magic" on those tracks. But, for the sake of argument, I think as a digital recreation, I'm about as close as I'll ever get.
How you have set the pickup height of your Frankie? Mine has an 80s Duncan 59 but sounds kinda thin, almost Telecaster like
I think the black back with the JBL would sound best to my ears. But the JBL's are certainly there IMO.
Yep, you could be right about the black back / JBL combo...
How often do you replace tubes with the bias so hot and the amp cranked all the time?
Hey Jim, I have a question that hopefully you’ll see and maybe know how to answer. My friend and I are trying to get this tone down too and we have bought damn near everything that is period correct for this project. My question is, do the JBLs have to be wired a certain way because they were made different? I ask because the tone we are getting from this setup is very tinny sounding and doesn’t seem to get that “fullness” sound that Ed had. We have all the right pedals (all vintage, period correct) and guitars with humbuckers. The only thing not period correct would be the SM57s and the DAW lol. Any help would be appreciated!
So, good timing - I just sat down when your message came through….ok - so first, there’s quite a bit of debate if he even used the JBLs for the first album and possibly the 2nd album. But, if he did use them, it was only for those first and possibly second albums. So, to your question - yes, JBLs are opposite phase of a Celestion. So you need to reverse positive and negative on the JBL. Then they’ll be in phase. I’m not sure why JBL did it that way, but most speakers push out with a positive voltage - JBLs pull in. So, that explains why the sound is thin. You’ve got phase cancellation going on…good luck in your quest.
@@jegauss thank you so much for the response, Jim! We are huge fans of what you are doing for the Van Halen stuff. Appreciate it and looking forward to the 1984 video!
@@jegaussI believe you should always make the speaker cone move forward away from the magnet to operate correctly regardless of what color the wire is
I concur 🤟🏼⚡️
I finally got my JBL D120F and I have to say, it’s what clinched that Van Halen 1 tone with reverb and delay. I heard about this from Tanner and I don’t think Eddie used JBLs on tour after the album and not sure about before the album. The aluminum dust caps you see live are speaker cabs not for Eddie’s guitar because of where they’re located. They COULD be since I’m assuming this. However, I really believe that either he used JBLs or he used two greenbacks to record and one track for lows/mid-low and one was EQ’d for mid-highs/highs while recording with a mic outside the cone. The JBL theory is convincing since Eddie liked mixing stuff like that for tone chasing; especially in the beginning
The bottom line, we don't know! 😉 But, it also wasn't uncommon back then to swap out those celestions for JBLs. Duane Allman did it, and he's not the only one from the 70s to do so. Also, the story about those aluminum dust cap speakers being radio shack speakers - I kinda doubt that one. I was around in the 70s and I remember going into radio shack and seeing their replacement guitar speakers. They did have an aluminum dust cap, but it also had the felt, 1/2" circle in the center - much like the Eminence speakers back then. So, that's not what was in Ed's cabinets. My vote is JBL or the Altecs like Randy Rhoads used. But again, we'll never really know....
Hi Jim! I am tone chasing on my Germino plexi myself and I have some questions about the changes you’ve made for this video: you mention cranking the bias at 66v Can you mention what the bias is specifically? Are you not setting it at 105v anymore and letting the bias go cold as you lower it to 66V?
Also, can you comment on your preamp, PI, screen and mains filtering sizes?
Awesome job! Thx
Hey Turbo! So, I set the bias all kinds of ways when I'm experimenting. But if I do set the bias to 50mA (50mV) at 105 volts on the variac (essentially 360 volts on the plates) - this is the Dave Friedman "method," or how he did it with Ed's amp - my particular bias pot, is almost physically maxed at that point. I basically can't get much lower than -50mV...I can probably get it to about -56mV, and then I can't physically turn the pot any further. If I wanted more, I'd need to change out the bias feed resistor. So, what I guess I'm trying to say, is that when I crank the bias pot, and the amp is running at 66 volts, it's pointless to measure. It's extremely low...I think the last time I looked when I was at that low, AC voltage, I'm thinking my bias at idle was probably something like -12mV. But, that's kind of the point. As you continually drop the voltage of the amp, the bias goes colder and colder. I don't think it's an accident that both the Peavey 5150 and the EVH 5150 have a very cold bias. That's part of the tone - especially with the Marshall. Cold tube heaters and cold bias are a huge part of that tone. Otherwise, you might as well just use a power scale kit that only brings down the B+ on the amp. But those Power Scaled amps don't sound like a power starved Marshall Super Lead - Hope all that makes sense....
As to my filtering:
filtering is
2] 100uf's f&t in series mains
2] 32uf's f&t in series screens
1]100uf lcr phase inverter
1] dual 33 x 33 f&t preamp
@@jegauss Thanks so much! That what exactly the info I was hoping for. My Germino is a 50watter and I’ve had to go to the 2700r on V1b to reduce bottom end flub. I’m hoping stiffer filtration will help some too. 👍🏼
@@TurboE30M3 Good luck! One more thing to look at is your choke value. Make sure it's a 10h
@@jegauss My choke is a 3H, I believe (Dagnall C 1999 replica). What improvements will a 10H bring?
@@TurboE30M3 Don't get me wrong, I like the 3H choke and the 5H choke (mine originally had a 5H) - But, for the VH tone, he's got a 10H in the '68. That was actually the general spec when Marshall was transitioning models in the '67 - '71 period. And, I believe it's standard on the JCM stuff, too. The choke, as far as "how does it sound, and how does it affect tone," it's very similar to what filter caps do. If you get ghosted notes, and and maybe a little more hum, general noise in the amp - anyway, the 10H will get rid of the ghost notes, and tighten up the "looseness" of the amp a little. If you keep the filtering "period correct / '68-ish," you'll still get that great sag, but you'll lose some of that looseness and those ghost notes, and weird artifacts due to power supply noise.
2 questions.
1) with the variac, how many decibels does it take away with 60 volts. If they were playing clubs I’d assume it’s -20db or more
2) will we ever get a Van Halen live tone? I’m curious to see how different the tone is due to Eddie leaving his main Marshall Plexi back home
Keep rocking Jim 🤘
60v is very quiet. I don’t have a db meter, but in the room it’s a huge volume drop. This is nowhere near as good as Jim’s but 60v is soooooo much fun! ua-cam.com/video/m0be2IqIQ1Y/v-deo.html
Every amp is different - some won't run as low as 60 volts - mine does, along with one of my other Plexis. However, a couple of my other amps won't run at that voltage. But, to answer your question, the last time I did this with a db meter, I want to say I was right around 94 db - that was running at about 71 volts. When I play live, in clubs or theaters, I'm able to run the amp between that 66 - 76 volts and I "keep up" with the drummer. and 66 volts, the cymbals start to bury the guitar and it's almost too quiet....it's still loud by today's club, "expected" volume levels, but I get away with it.
As far as a VH live tone goes....I think that would be a mission of me chasing my tail. We don't have any idea how the live tones were recorded, if they were eq'd in post, etc...The wireless units changed the tone, he stopped using the Echoplex for live use (pretty sure on the 2nd tour), and he used new-ish Marshall Super Leads. Which, in all honesty, don't sound too much different than my "favorite" Super Lead that I do all of these videos with. I'd do a video like that, if I had a known recording source / technique. Otherwise, I don't think we'd learn much. The studio is controlled, we can make mic'ing assumptions, we have a pretty solid idea of which amp was used, which speaker cabinet, etc...but honestly, I would bet his live sound, was not so much different than his sound he went into the studio with. The way it's processed between the two environments is the problem.
Anyway, hope that makes sense - Thanks for watching!
I don't know if Eddie was aware of JBL speakers being wired reversed (positive is negative and vice versa) from Celestion. It could have change mic positioning because of phase issue between both types of speaker.
Of course, Eddie was Amazeballs... but let's not forget that DLR had to come up with lyrics, melodies and hooks to these amazing crazy Riffs. When I hear you play these songs acapella, I think... WTF would you put on top of this vocally? DLR killed it 👏
Fantastic!!
Thank you!
Wow, man what a great sound. It's the closest VH thing I ever heard. Could you give some information about the specs of your fantastic guitar? Especially some from the neck. I know you got this from Warmoth. Which nut and frets you use? Thank you so much. All the best from Austria, Jakob.
That’s Awesome so close. Can you graph and overlay all the graphs against the Original recording.
Hey Kirk! Thanks! You know I probably could apply a spectrum analyzer and compare, but I always have to decide what goes in the video or not...I ramble so much, and there's always so much information to include in these things, that I end up editing so much out to begin with...it's a good idea, and I'll consider doing something like that in future videos.
Awesome videos!
Thank you! Much appreciated!
How big is the mismatch of coils?
great vid, im hanging out for the "brown sound quest 5150 and Ballance"
Thank you!
In my opinion the JBL and greenie combo sounds the closest. It has a vibe that the blackies and the greenies (only) just don’t have.
I agree, Mark! Thanks for watching!
Jim, do you know where I can buy "authentic" black backs like yours with original cones? I would be interested in four of them. Thanks
Hard to say - you'd probably need to buy a mid-70s Marshall 4x12. I would reach out to Greg Ginter at Guitar Shop of Wisconsin (they're in Madison). He's got quite a collection of vintage Marshall stuff.
I have a ton of these with original cones, blackbacks