This Made My Guitar Worse!!! ( Wont Do It Again)
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2020
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One of the best hard rock guitarist out there. Rythm playing is top notch and the solos are; the tone and techniques, are just b plain ol bad ass. Best way i can describe him. Thanks again Rob Man.
Done!
So basically all you had to do was to elevate the tailpiece to make it play normal. For 30 years I've always changed out the TOM bridges for heavy roller bridges. It will solve nearly all the tuning issues because you have eliminated the sharp saddles on the TOM bridge. Sharp saddles create resistance when tuning as well as providing a sharp surface to saw your strings into while your bending the snot out of them. GFS has one for 40 bucks or so and the weight is good. Great playing
Dude, serious! Doug is a beast! Your riffs on this had me hooked before he played a note, tho! Tasty👻
Really, your riff is tuff! More like lead than rhythm. Great mini-track you guys. Top notch.
When top wrapping you will need to get ball-ends from old strings and feed the new string through there so the string doesnt pinch on the tailpiece.
Good idea!
And so you don't cut up your hand from the sharp ends of the string winding that wraps up and around the tailpiece.
3 Les Paul owner, all top wrapped. Love the feel and string tension.
Guitar mythology is entertaining! I like the one that dictates that your Strat sounds better with the back plate off. Never did that and never needed to replace the original plate on my 67. Be nerdy about your stuff, it's ours for only a while and those after us will appreciate our gentle custodianship.
@@GCKelloch this applies to tonewoods as well, but whilst you probably can hear the difference in a situation that is designed to bring out the difference, in a band situation you are not going to hear the difference.
The acoustic sound changes with the backplate off. If we accept that the acoustic sound influences the amplified tone, even to a small and possibly imperceptible level, then taking the backplate off can't hurt anything.
Hey Carol, I have a 67 as well. Fantastic guitar and I don’t care that it’s an early CBS. It’s
Ike my favorite old t shirt, just feels right!
@@bluzzjazz On the wall at the store last century missing a knob, $250. Now a 61!
@@LewisShieldsUS Aweet!
It's totally a neck angle thing. I have to top wrap my SG, otherwise the stoptail piece is WAY high off of the body so that the strings don't hit the back of the tune-o-matic bridge coming off of the saddles. If I top wrap it creates a shallower angle from the saddles to the top of the stoptail and allows me to adjust the stoptail bar closer to the body where it seems to be much more solid.
Your intros man!!!!! Cud listen to your riffage everyday on the road and back!
Thanks homie
I would not do that to my guitars you were right to switch it back Rock On Brotha Rob😎🤟👏👏
The lesson learned here should be applied to most things guitar related. String gauges, pickups and tunings can all have different results on different guitars. There is not necessarily “better”, just different, so never be afraid to experiment to find what might work best with that particular guitar.
Why are there no Robert Baker originals out there?
Yes!!!
There are 🤷♂️
JC probably should’ve investigated before commenting lol, got any links?
@@harrisdouglas7229 open.spotify.com/artist/6LiGFKQ3pmtB7nGEzF156c?si=KIei6dgmQMGRjjoJM01NAg here ya go!
I know he posted an ep awhile ago, cant remember what its called but i bet if you dig through his videos enough youll find it.
Top wrapping started to cut through my tailpiece like a cheese slicer..
i love Doug's playing, i'm glad he is making some collabs.
I have a 1997 Les paul Classic I bought it 23 years ago I used to use 9's and they used to brake at the saddle so I over wrapped it lessened the sharp angle so less broken strings and I was able to use 10's because for me it felt much looser I can bend to the moon and back it's a nice slinky action.I never knew why it worked it was just a feel and I went with it.After watching this I understand a bit more
I never top wrap my Les Paul or SG style guitars. It doesn't seem necessary for most modern Epiphone/Gibson style guitars as the neck joint angle is more standardized. It seems that this applies mostly to some vintage Gibson guitars, which anyone would be lucky to own.
Justin Davis I agree it’s all snake oil.
Same. I don’t any problem bending on the guitars so I just don’t mess with it.
The neck on Gibson guitars are still installed by hand, each neck pocket is fit for the given neck. Not exactly standardized
Love your content brotha. Rock on !!
Great videos Rob, keep up the good work. I have a PRS guitar that is top wrapped and has a special bridge. It has grooves for the strings to sit in and not move around.
Interesting video, my SG is top wrapped because when it wasn’t it was uncomfortable to play my picking hand position didn’t feel right. But once I top wrapped it felt really comfortable and the strings because super slinky and easy to bend. I had heard that Neck angle had something to do with but I’ll only do it if I think it needs it or if I want to try something different it’s the easiest mod to do and if you don’t like it it’s easily reversible.
Also Gibson has tail pieces that are designed to allow top wrapping. It actually came standard on My SG the top is slightly more oval then a standard tail piece.
I came to same conclusion i.e. it's all about how the tailpiece sits with the bridge. I was having to raise the tailpiece really high and was breaking lots of strings. So I wound the tailpiece down to the body and top wrapped. Much better outcome. Still plays same but not breaking strings like before. Tx for excellent explanation Robert, as always.
Yeah I tried it on the frankenstein "Les Paul, epiphone, who knows(it's badass though, hahaha)" guitar I built. It worked & at 1st it felt good because it was something new. See mine was the opposite, they felt extra loose & twanky. I just couldn't get use to it & went back to the regular way. Hope all is well, take it easy.
Great video. To each their own.
I been playing since the early 80's and never liked to wrap my strings on my Gibson guitars.
But whatever works, go for it
I top wrap all my Les Pauls. Love it. Makes it easier to hit those Kossoff double bends/vibrato - I use 10s across the board and have never encountered a tightness. I started doing it because I'm quite heavy on my fret hand and hoped the reduction in tension would make me a bit lighter.
Robert, this video was spot on and fortuitous with its timing....as recently I’ve been on the fence about this very topic ! Nice Les Paul by the way....👍🏻 thanks for another helpful vid, I think it shows that our guitars are like our children....each one unique....even among like models ! It’s also why the guitar buying journey must never end ...😌...amen 🙏🏻 ....now please excuse me while I go shop for another new guitar 🎸
Very helpful, glad you found out the issue, and thanks for the info, I might just try top wrapping my LPJ now, and if my strings feel like iron bars I'll know why.
Great video, I experienced some of guitars gaining that slinky feeling on bends with more neck angle and other guitars gaining more slinkiness with less angle and I always wondered what was going on there.
I've never felt the need to top wrap strings. excellent explanation from Mr. Suhr.
Love your playing style. THANKS for the lessons.
I had a similar thing with my Yamaha Revstar when I adjusted the neck relief. It suddenly became alive and I just couldn't put it down. It improved the intonation, tuning stability, sustain and action all at once.
First off that is a great sounding guitar, loved the intro piece with you and Doug! Top wrapping never did anything for me and I broke strings at the point where they wrap around so - never again!!
The “length of strings in play” rationale is interesting. I have a Bigsby Guild with a lot of string length behind the bridge, shallow break angle, and it always felt ultra slinky compared with my stop-tail Carvin, also almost never broke strings. Since then installed a Bigsby on the Carvin (more string length under tension now), and it feels slinkier than before. How to make sense of this from a physics standpoint? IDK.
I have both my Les Paul Traditionals top-wrapped. I find for those particular guitars it works. Makes sense that it depends on the neck angle. Hard to say if it specifically improved the tone of those guitars, as I changed out quite a lot of stuff in one go (pickups, bridge, wiring harness) but they're killer guitars now. I found I had to have the tailpiece awkwardly high to prevent the string catching the back of the bridge when under-wrapped. But I don't think I've tried the new bridge that way. I just know this works for me :)
The guitar makes all the difference, and not just the scale length. I have two 24.75” scaled guitars, a Harley Benton SC-550 and a ‘92 Gibson Explorer, and I have a multi scale 7 string Ibanez (25.5 - 27”). My usual preferred gauge is 9 - 46 and that’s what I have on my HB but I just can’t use them for my Gibson, anything thicker than 8’s makes it impossible to play, and for my multi scale I use the mammoth slinky for the bottom strings (62 and 48 for the low B and E) and it feels almost too light, even though the longer scale length should make them feel tighter. I’m guessing it has to do with the fret size since my explorer has really worn down frets while the others have larger ones, but I don’t really know for sure
Fret height makes a big difference when it comes to bends, so that's probably why you're fighting with your Gibson a little. Might be time for a refret, or a crowning if the frets are flat and there's enough fret height left to do it.
@@bgilley8199 Oh yeah it's definitely time for a refret I just don't have the money for it right now
Great info! Thanks so much!
I top wrapped my Epi LP Ultra, and I feel like it added some sustain, which could be coming from any number of parts that got replaced at the same time, but I'm digging it.
I've never personally top wrapped my strings on my LP but i don't feel the need to as i use 9-46's. This is very interesting though, thanks for sharing Robert.
I always top wrap my Gibson R7 and R8. I’ve done it for years. You have to make sure your tailpiece is all the way to the body or the break angle isn’t enough. It makes my strings very slinky too.
You should take a look at "Gibson Tailpiece Wrap-around or not?" by StringTech Workstations.
As he explains you’re only supposed to wrap the strings around the tailpiece if the height of the bridge (or something else) causes the strings to touch the edge of the bridge before it connects with the tailpiece.
Oh cool I'll check it out!
Oren Albert Meisel Dillon Talks Tone also has a great video on this
But it’s not the reason that most famous guitarist who do it do it for. They do it because they believe it changes the feel of the guitar when it comes to string bends and makes it feel a bit slinkier. Why could this be?
Firstly top wrapping clearly doesn’t change the string tension in the active length of the string as this (for the same string gauge) would change the tuning. What it does do is the following though:
- by reducing the break angle over the bridge it reduces the downward pressure on the bridge and as friction is related to this downward force it reduces the friction between the string and the saddles and therefore allows the string to slide over the saddles more easily during bending (which it needs to do);
- the lower break angle also reduces the string tension in the non-active portion of the string between the bridge and the tailpiece (this is just relatively simple physics of forces and angles - for there to be the necessary tension in the active string when the angle over the bridge to the anchor point is greater less of the force in that string section is acting in the direction of the active string length and therefore there must be more tension in that section of string overall and it will be harder to stretch, as it needs to do when bending - it’s not only the active length of string that stretches); and
- it changes (increases) the length of the string between bridge and tailpiece anchor point. It’s less clear to me whether this should contribute to easier string bending or not (whereas the other two effects as above clearly would contribute to easier string bending from top wrapping).
If you wanted to you could replicate the first two effects of top-wrapping just by raising the tailpiece up as this would also reduce the string break angle. The reduced string break angle is also likely to improve tuning stability due to the reduced friction giving improved return to pitch performance after string bending. However, as with most things you don’t get something for nothing: most people like having the tailpiece anchored down to the body because they believe it enhances vibration transfer into the body (I’m not convinced because it’s mainly through the bridge rather than the tailpiece that you want and will have good vibration transfer) but a greater break angle over the bridge and therefore greater downward pressure should also enhance the vibration transfer through the bridge itself, which I’d argue is something you want. Personally I’d always go for traditional stringing with the tailpiece as low as it can go without strings fouling the back edge of the bridge for exactly this reason.
Edit: I can’t adequately explain logically why Robert’s top wrapping in this case made the strings feel less slinky and harder to bend... it’s a bit strange. The “less string to bed” idea from the post that Robert read doesn’t make total sense scientifically. It’s implying that with normal stringing with a bigger break angle over the bridge the length of the string behind the bridge doesn’t stretch at all... which isn’t true. Maybe there is a balance point regarding break angle at which the downward pressure created generates enough friction over the saddles to better “isolate” the active length of the string and the short inactive length between bridge and tailpiece so that the vast majority of the string stretching caused by the bend happens in the active length and only a very small amount occurs in the section behind the bridge and it has little effect on the feel of the bend? Conversely below this break angle balance point there is so little friction over the bridge saddles that the tension in the string behind the bridge is almost the same as in the active length, the two lengths of string are not isolated at all from each other, and the same force acts in the entire string when bending, forcing you to have to effectively bend not only the active length of string but also that section between bridge and saddle. 🤔
Man that’s some of the best playing I’ve herd out of ya. Keep that up.....
Yoooooooo, that intro.
Douggie Raps mode activated.
Man I love how you always do a short Jam in the beginning . You deserve millions of viewers
I tried it once when I was about 15. I was a huge fan of Duane Allman, and I heard that it was one of his tricks, so I tried it. The cartoon thought balloon above my head said "?????????" (This was way before WTF?) It made no difference at all.
Never done that... and now, I won't. Thanks, Robert, for sharing your experience!
Why not he didn't say it's bad on all guitars he said it might work really good on some, might as well try it when it works it works good
I have my Wine Red standard top wrapped, my Gold Top and KM are not. My 335 is wrapped, my 125 and Howard Roberts are not. I use some .09s, some 10s and jazz rock 12s on the 125 { it is set up to play slide on}. Depending on the neck and headstock angle, wrapping over the tailpeice breaks the tension on the string angle and makes the guitar easier to play.
That's exactly why I top-wrap - I learned guitar on a Strat, so when I play my SG, I like the extra tension; it's more similar to a guitar with extra scale length.
for me it depends on if the strings are resting on the bridge behind the saddle or not and yes raising the tail piece should help too :) I bet if i looked at it it probably does have more to do with the neck angle
I'm glad you got that guitar to play better. It's my favorite axe of yours, even more than the gold top (to my surprise).
Ultimately it's the string length that determines how tight the strings will be. The longer the string length, the tighter it will feel, and be. The shorter the string length, the looser they will feel, and be. In theory, top wrapping should reduce the break angle which generally helps with how the strings feel, but that isn't always the whole story, because technically the string is then longer. The question becomes how much longer is the string length vs the break angle? When the stop bar is clamped down to the body, the string length is longer and the break angle is steeper. This should make the string feel stiffer. Now if the stop bar is raised up a little the string length and the break angle also reduces, which should help make the strings feel looser. I think in your case, the reduced break angle on the string didn't outweigh the added length of the string needed to top wrap. As mentioned, some guitars work with it and others don't. I don't like it myself and find little value in it.
I use 12s on my telecaster, I like the tension so I top wrapped my les paul and I much prefer it.
Top wrapping only works on certain guitars, it really depends on the neck angle, and how high the bridge sits...with a shallow neck angle and low bridge height, you won't have enough down pressure on the saddles.
That bit about break-angle affecting bendability got me thinking about the bending issues my '07 AVRI J-master and '64 Strat were having.Went to work on both and got the same good results that you got on your LP.Thanks for the good ideas! You Da Man,Robert!
I had the exact opposite results. I had no clue bout top wrapping. My setups last way way longer and my tuning is spot on I also had the nut replaced to bone that might had something to do with. My guitar has never played better and I haven’t touched it set up wise in almost year. I was floored. Love your channel!
I love top wrapping my LP. I played in Open D a lot and I just felt like it sounded more open. Could be placebo but I’ve been doing it for so long that I can’t tell. I also use 11s
Sounds like my strat. It had its tremolo blocked when I got it and the string were so damn tight. It couldn't ever go out of tune but still, felt much better once I unblocked it.
Robert great explanation.What type of recording software are you using?
I love Doug man I thought you had put together a piece to fit with his previous guitar stuff. That's really awesome Robert. I enjoy your content keep it up.
Thanks I'm having a bunch of guest solos and I'm trying to write stuff in their style.
I'm glad I finally found this video! I've been so confused for so long about this top wrap thing. I keep kept hearing people talking about it making the strings slinkier so I tried it on 2 of my les pauls and both of them it made the strings so tight I could barely bend notes. I was so confused because I kept hearing other people say that it does the opposite. I even got into an argument online with one guy who swore up and down there was no possible way it could make it tighter. I'm like I know for a fact that it does in fact make the strings tighter😂 Thank you!
What are your thoughts on rolling TuneOmatics? I'm thinking about getting one for my Epiphone SG.
I top wrapped my epiphone, now I have spikey grooves on the back on my tailpeice; although I was using heavier than 10's when doing that.
Super video and a great answer from John. :) 👍
I go between D# and C# a lot on my Les Paul and came up with wrapping under (not over or normal) the tailpiece to keep the low string tight on drop tunes while the others are strung normally.
Never had a problem top wrapping, but decided to just raise the stop tailpiece. I wrap the stud threads with Teflon tape if stud is not a good tight fit. I use Teflon tape on bridge studs too, can make a noticeable difference.
Hi Robert, just came across this video. I use Tusq saddles in my bridges, and coupled with top wrapping, the butter on leads on ALL my stop bar guitars jumped up to stellar. No exceptions for me. I would try a Graph Tech Tusq bridge bottom wrapped then top wrapped, I think you may like it then.
I have a 60's type Les paul i tried top wrapping on and it made it worse. I also have a 50's style that I tried it on and it turned it into an absolute beast. The only reason I tried it was to get the stop bar seated on the body. Other wise the nashville bridge is to wide and I have to raise it back up so the strings clear the back of the bridge.
I have always had good success with top-wrapping, personally. Has that LP Custom ever had a re-fret? I have an opportunity to buy a similar guitar locally, but the frets were crowned at some point, they are looking fairly flat. Wondering if I should just pass, or get it knowing that I'll probably have to re-fret at some point.
My 2000 Gibson Les Paul SL I use 11-56 top wrapping. She seems to love it. I usually like light strings but that guitar just wants to chugga chugga. And it feels good. Cheers, Robert!
I had a little of the same problem of tighter string feeling. (I did not wrap the tailpiece) I just raised my bridge tail piece and drop my string gauge to .009 - .042. It came with .010 on it and was fine for Eb tuning or lower. E Standard was pretty much to that point where it felt like the high E string was going to snap.
LOVE that outro jam!!!!!
Hey there. I play with my epiphone ‘61 style SG top wrapped with zero issues. Same with my Les Paul, although it is not top wrapped at the moment. I also have my tailpiece cranked down to the body on both guitars. Here’s the kicker... I use the Ernie ball Hendrix set which is 10-36! They are “based on” Hendrix, but I’ve learned that that gauge of strings is much like the sets they would use in the 60’s and 70’s. Believe it or not, you get a better low end response. Also for me, it makes those strings even slinkier, not tighter. If top wrapping your guitar makes the strings tighter, your bridge/tailpiece needs adjusted.
Excellent job once again, Im a big fan and I glad to ear that you play 10. After listening to Rick Beato guitar string size vid, I felt bad loving my 10. Dont get me wrong, I really enjoy and appreciate what Rick does but for me, 10-52 rules for the feel. Smaller than that, I feel that the small E string is trying to find a way to slice my finger when bending over the 12 th fret. 😁 Thanks you for your very informative content. You rock 🤘
Wow shocked I owe three les Paul's and an epiphone les Paul, and ibanez e's 335 type and all were switched to top wrap and I love it, I have weak hand strength and it help dramatically thanks for the amazing content Rob, God bless you bro, see ya in the next video
Tone and playing so tasteful, like always
That "Super Lick" at 8:05 was so . . . . so . . . I'm trying to think of a really good word . . . It was so SCREAMIN' !! I'm gonna have to figure that out. Great video. I've always been happy with my Setups on my Les Pauls and my other Guitars. I've also never once tried Top Wrapping because I learned early from a great guy how to somewhat adjust String Tension with the Stop Tail piece. And other adjustments. Love your playing and your happy attitude in your videos. Cheers. 🎸
I have a 2001 Les Paul Elegant Custom Shop. I have to top wrap it, if I don’t, I have to raise the tailpiece way up in order to have a good angle on the bridge. I used to use 10-46 Ernie Ball Slinky’s and with the under wrap they felt like cables. Now I use a top wrap with Elixir 10-46 and they’re like butter.
Dylantalkstone did a vid showing just how negatively top wrapping affects the guitar.
He proved his own case against him self in that video. If you watch it again and realize yes you do need to bend it more to get it to the same pitch, even if it's slightly more pressure to get it there it means that for initial vibrato it would actually feel more loose under your finger. Also the very small extra bit of pressure to get it to pitch is unnoticeable but the feeling of a slacked string under your fingers is very noticeable. Robert didn't even restring it with his same set, he was just using some guys old set that was on there god knows how long. Who knows if they were even .10's? This video is the most unscientific hearsay stupidity I've even seen. Restring it at least if you are gonna make a video. I'll say this try it yourself and trust what you feel not what people tell you on YT, including me. Go test it results speak for them self.
@@tomlaw8821
How do you prove your own case against yourself?
To me that is talking in circles
I don't top wrap but one of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard, and tried, and loved was raising the tail piece up nearly level with the saddles. Takes a LOT of tension away and makes for some easier bends, almost like going down a string gauge.
I like a lot of string tension. When I don't top wrap with 11s on my 90s Les Paul I find I get more fret buzz from the thicker strings. I usually remedy that with heavy bottom/medium lows but when I top wrap with 11s I don't have that issue. For me this means top wrap on 11 which come in packs of 3 so are cheaper.
Interesting that it's down to the break angle. So in essence less break angle means more tension? That's extremely useful.
My Les Pauls “love” top wrapping. It makes a set of 9s feel like 8s or 8.5s
James Buchanan .009s are so terrible. Sound so weak on any of my LP’s.
That's really interesting because I feel i get more tension from my Les Paul top wrapping, like Rob. Thing is I'm TRYING to get more tension. I want my 11s to feel like 12s. It must be down to the guitar.
Got a suggestion for you, Robert. As I wrote earlier, I've top-wrapped my stop tailpiece-equipped guitars for years. I did wind up with an issue with my Hamer, however: Like with you, I wound up with more string tension than I wanted. It wasn't as bad as what you had, but I had been stringing that Hamer with 9s at first (I was putting 9s on EVERYTHING!) and moved to 10s after hearing that they would feel like 9s on a longer scale guitar. (In case you don't know, Hamer Sunburst Archtops use the 24.75 "Gibson" scale length.) I tried that and the tension, while tolerable, was NOT feeling like 9s on a Strat! Know what I did? I learned that Ernie Ball had fleshed out their line of electric guitar strings with "in-between" gauged sets! I got a couple of sets of their new Turbo Slinky strings (which equate to a 9.5 gauge) and finally got around to trying them out yesterday. They're great! I still wrap over, which I believe enhances both sustain and tone the way I do it, and the string tension MIGHT be a little light, but it's much improved. At this point, I'm letting the neck "settle in" and stop moving. A day or two from now, I'll adjust the truss rod for a bit more relief, and that should do it. I know you've found your solution for your Les Paul, but keep the suggestion in mind for future issues -- or even try top-wrapping again with a set of strings a half-gauge lighter than your old ones.😎❤️️🎸‼️
It didn't do much for my 2010 Standard, but it works on my '81 The Paul Firebrand Deluxe. I found that the tail piece needed to be really high so that the string angle didn't hit the back of the bridge. I did a top wrap, and dropped the tail piece right down. Feels and plays great. Some say you get better sustain, but I can't say notice....but it does play and feel better. FYI I play 9s. Also...I took the old ball-ends from my old strings and put my new strings through them before I run them through the tail piece. That way I don't have the sharp bit of the wound strings at the top of the tail piece and poking the palm of my hand as I play.
Super interesting dude! First thing I think of is how Eddie Van Halen wrapped his strings upwards on the tuning peg instead of the winding them down like normal. He made his strings run straight through the nut with pretty much no angle at all ( on the first floydless version of his strat ) to the point to where he had trouble keeping them in the string slots...going by that concept, making the strings longer would make it harder to bend strings? I know Eddie would have went for the most loose feeling and easiest playability he could achieve so it just raises a lot of curiosity. Definitely something I will have to toy with! Also you mentioned Joe Bonamassa top wraps, I know Ive heard him say he likes to fight his guitars haha he doesn't like if they're too easy to play. He tried out an EVH model and later said it was too easy to play.
Question: I have a Gibson Flying V with a stop tail bridge and the bridge digs into my palm. Any kind of fix other than different guitar or bridge? I normally play a Charvel with Floyd but love my flying v’s. Any ideas?
Maybe its a placebo effect. If one thinks they'll play better with a top rap then they probably will...
kiezer sosay no placebo there is a noticeable difference to how the strings feel and the neck angle how it’s set into the body makes a big difference if it lengthens the strings there’s definitely will be an increase in tension.
@@sid35gb
Yep, because you have to pull more tension on a longer string (distance from bridge saddle to nut) to achieve the same standard pitch.
You'd be amazed what people can convince themselves of. If it works, let "em belief it. So yes, placebo effect in many cases.
@@Justafeller I "convinced" myself my original floyd rose did not stay in tune. 3 Guitar tech saw the guitar and two of my guitar teachers. All of them said it was ok. I thought I was paranoid. However whenever I checked the tuning after playing the guitar it was fucked up. I gave it to the 4th guitar tech and he managed to set it up. It got much better but it still got out of tune. I found out the tuning got much better when the strings were played for a longer period of time. Finally it clicked, I used nickel wound strings and when I got rid of nickel it suddenly stayed in tune so I started to use steel strings and now it stays in tune but again guitar tech did not believe me this was possible and I could not find anything about this on net.
Thanks for telling me that I could have the strings in the tailstop wrap under, or over, and not just go in the tail side and straight out the bridge side.
It really is down to how good Gibson set the neck angle when bonding it at the factory ... some Les Pauls I've seen are so off the mark that top wrapping and even low end saddle reversal is the only way they will play nice and intonate properly. But when they get it right like on your Custom, it needs nothing doing to play great. Just like my 79 LP Std which I've played unmolested with 9-42's on since new.
I did it years ago when I was running 11-70's. It seemed to help with string tension. I saw that Zakk Wylde had done it for years so I gave it a try.
I don't do it anymore due to switching to a hybrid set for whole step down and lower.
.11-.60 is my current gauge preference.
Amazing intro collab!!!! I LOVED IT! GOOD JOB!!!!!!
I agree with the tension on my Gibson LP it loves 11’s and too wrapped G string I tried 10’s top and bottom and 11’s top and bottom it took me about a 2 weeks to figure that she being my guitar love being with 11’s and top wrapped G super weird
Most problems that 'over-wrapping' seems to solve is actually the stop bar being so low that the strings contact the bridge frame on the bar side of the bridge saddle. Raising the stop bar so the strings contact only the saddles will do wonders.
Yep, raising the stop bar solves the angle thing but it affects the sustain. At least for me it is noticeable. There are some alternatives to tackle the sustain issue like the Babicz stop bar with nuts underneath to make it tighter. Anyway, topwrapping is a costless alternative to solve this angle issue and get more sustain. It worth trying, if it does not affect the playability and you get that tone you're seeking you're safe.
I own a 1998 Gibson Explorer (owned by a guitar tech, got a limited edition stamp on it (apparently it was the first year they started doing the “76 reissue” or something. When I bought it; it was top wrapped and I kept it, no issues. I have it setup for standard but it’s in half step atm, with Ernie Ball 10-48s I believe.
I top wrap on my R7 Goldtop and I find it works well and makes a slinkier feel. I use 9-46 D'Addario strings. I slam the tail piece to the body and then I also have to lower the bridge a little and then do a set up. But youre right, maybe not all guitars feel the same on top wrap.
The way I've always understood it is that the ideal setup would have the break angle behind and forward of the bridge saddles equal. So depending on your neck angle and bridge height, whatever top-wraps or normal wrap/elevated will achieve that is what you're shooting for.
I have a 72 Goldtop Deluxe and a 79 KM LP. Have never felt the need to wrap, as they sound great as is. Same for my semi hollows.
The whole reason for top wrapping is to cure an issue on guitars with too much neck angle. A very high neck angle will require a similarly high bridge position. On such a guitar, as the strings travel over the saddles to the stud tailpiece, the break angle is very steep. This leads to the strings contacting the rear edge of the bridge. You don't want this, the strings need to clear that rear edge. The normal approach is to raise the stud tailpiece so the strings clear the rear edge of the bridge. However, on some guitars the tailpiece needs to be raised more than is ideal (not enough threads left in the body for stability or the owner doesn't like the look or thinks tone will be lost). So top-wrapping is an alternative to raising the tailpiece. The tailpiece can remain low to the body, but with the strings wrapping over the top, the break angle is reduced, sufficient to clear the rear edge of the bridge. The problem is when top wrapping is used on guitars that don't need it. Generally the break angle is too shallow, leading to the issues you experienced Rob.
It really depends:
When joining the neck to the body, the angle is not always as desired. That’s why some of the bridges are lower, some are higher, for the same action.
If the bridge is low enough, closer to the body (best case scenario) wrap around brings nothing, it maybe makes it worse.
If the bridge is high, the wrap around might release some of the unwanted tension by changing the angle of the strings before the bridge.
I happened to be at a jam with Derek St.Holmes (great guy, player and singer) and he asked to play my gold top. I have always top wrapped. Inside of 10 minutes he had ripped the strings off the saddles twice! He took me aside, took out a set of new strings, and restrung my guitar....and I quote...”..like it was designed “! In 25 years I had never pulled a string out of the saddle....but I haven’t top wrapped a guitar since!
I haven't tried this yet. But it might actually work.
If you like that beefy tone of thicker strings but want less tension on the high bendy bend strings. Try using a string gauge bigger. And topwrap the treble strings whilst keeping the bass strings normal
I had a high tail piece to clear the E strings at the saddle breakover. Thought about what you said here, just top wrap the E strings. Top wrapped ‘em all instead to get the tail piece all the way down & still clear the saddle.
I love that Les Paul so much!
It highly depends on the guitar, for my guitar strings to clear the base of the bridge i have to set the tailpiece really high, top wraping sorted it and the strings don't have too much tension. (1980 les paul deluxe)
I’ve never too wrapped a TOM bridge guitar. Never seen/felt the need. Love that outro jam riff.
Damn, that intro is so awesome, you guys are beasts! :o
A theory is that the more weight to the tailpiece, the less tone from the wood. Wrapping the strings around the tailpiece of the 2015 Les Paul Special is fine, because it is cryogenically treated light-weight brushed aluminum with Lightning Rod intonation segments, and the tailpiece is therefore lighter to begin with. I had an issue with my 2016 Deluxe Tele Thinline and my 2015 Les Paul Special being noticeably louder through the Marshall JVM410HJS than was a 2014 Les Paul with Custom Shop pickups and harness. The fix was to add a very expensive Gibson nickel-plated aluminum stop bar (lighter than chrome-plated aluminum). I was fortunate enough to find an affordable nickel-plated aluminum Gibson Custom Shop stop bar on eBay. Adding either a TiSonix titanium stop bar or a Gibson Custom Shop nickel-plated aluminum stop bar makes a big difference by having less density than zinc, which absorbs tone. Even an affordable Gotoh chrome-plated _aluminum_ stop bar is better than stock zinc, in terms of the "woodiness" of the tone.
That was awesome! Keeping the stoke alive!!!