Do you think Myter birthed the three fingers? Maybe it was an act of retaliation or just a product of her wound? Did Myter call to the other outer gods when the greater will stopped communications? It’s just such an interesting area to speculate
If Shabriri accused the Merchants of being disciples of the Frenzied Flame, and it wasn't true, then that would make it "slander". I think that the Golden Order eventually figured out that Shabriri had lied, but by that time the merchants actually had been overtaken by Frenzy, because they'd been locked in a pit with the 3-Fingers. So the merchants were just left where they were, and Shabriri was punished as the one "responsible" for the mistake.
Also there is evidence that the merchants are protected from the sentencing of Elemor, so the imprisonment could have been done even earliar before the erdtree.
I think a really interesting piece of lore no one talks about in regards to Frenzy is the presence they showcase in the Consecrated Snowfields. Here you find a number of large trolls with frenzied eyes, similar to the one that is clearly guarding Volcano Manor. You also see frenzied human guards around these trolls, in a suprisingly "orderly" guarding configuration. It really gives the idea that there are multiple tiers of agency the Frenzied Flame operates on. That a contingency was being set so if the Haligtree was successful they could attempt to spread frenzy to Miquella's new empire. I think this makes a good parallel to your idea of the aging untouchables harvesting grapes for a purpose. Great video Smough!!
worth note that the “as above so below” hand gesture baphomet is so frequently represented with depicts one hand with two fingers extended upward, and the other with three pointed downward. not sure whether that really offers any lore implications though still a fun potential inspiration for elden ring’s representations of order and disorder
I think in your previous video on the three fingers you had mentioned how the fingerprint is the word of the three fingers and thusly the three fingers are just madly repeating the same thing over and over again. I think it's also worth noting that the violin theme associated with the merchants and the frenzied Flame and now midra in his boss fight has a waltz time signature that just repeats over and over again, one two three one two three. The influence of the fingers and the flame they embody even makes its way into this lullaby, or if it is still the case that St Trina taught it to the merchants, maybe this more soothing one two three somehow manages to assuage the effects of the frenzied Flame
I hadn't noticed that before. The idea of the waltz 3/4 time signature tying in with the Three Fingers is brilliant! Also interesting with the tie to St. Trina, that the lullaby has connections with her and the Flame. Madness and sleep are both blinding, and a means of escapism for the downtrodden in the Lands Between.
The difference between the stability of 2 or 3 things is a big topic in astrophysics with a formal name: the N-body problem. At n=2, orbits are stable and can spiral through the cosmos for a long time (Two-body problem) At n=3, orbits are chaotic and unpredictable (Three-body problem) -- Miriel knows this. The union of the house of the Moon and the house of the Erdtree was supposed to be a stable n=2 solution to war. But when it's known that Marika is Radagon, 2 is revealed to be 3, and since Marika is already in a stable configuration of 2 with Godfrey, we're at 4 and stability is entirely out of the door. They're two sets of Two-bodies flinging each other out of stable configurations. I think that might be why the Golden Order's sacred geometry imagery has 3 rings in a triangle, Radagon was trying to stabilize an n=3 solution in his renaissance-man phase, which we know to be mathematically impossible.
Don't think Miyazaki was inspired by a quazi-intellectual book that rewrites history and portrays itself as "a smart book for academics" but sacrifices the basics for a good story essentially turning astrophysics into Thor levels of stupidity.
Three shall be the number shall thou count Four shall thou not count Nor shall thou count to two, excepting that thou then count to Three. Five is right out!
Midra is hands down my favourite fight in the game, maybe all of Fromsouls. It feels like a chaotic dance. "something of the Golden Order" can be seen within the Greatsword of Damnation, which is true: the sigil of the Elden Ring has a similar line with barbs coming off of it. It suggests that the Golden Order learned from the cruelty of the Inquisitors and how they (very effectively) dealt with heresies. Marika is literally crucified on it. Midra being a noble brought low is an interesting metaphor for the goal of frenzy, too. Everything distinquished about him scoured away...
I agree with all of your findings except, personally, I interpreted the manse and all of its inhabitants as unknowing victims of the frenzy flame. That this story of the manse was to highlight the inevitability of the frenzy, similar to the slow crawl of godwyn's deathblight, and not like the deliberate, sinister agenda of shabriri in the lands between. that the presence of frenzy at the manse was a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts - that perhaps it was truly an academic endeavor to understand this frenzy flame, then an honest effort by the hornsent to stop the study before it got out of control and everyone involved unknowingly furthered the frenzy flame's influence. the tortured soul recounting his plea didnt seem to know why the inquisitors were persecuting the people of the manse, to me it seems like at that point, the frenzy hadn't made itself known (the 'unjust' slaughter laying the foundation for the frenzy). I saw nanaya's "endure" as genuine, but unfortunately, midra's enduring slowly primed him as a candidate for the frenzy (floodgates, as you said). the spinal column nanaya cradles their newborn child, who perhaps fell victim to the frenzy hungry and alone in his dead mother's arms and not some sick trophy from nanaya's previous frenzy victim. (why would shabriri not possess her body to speak to us in this moment? to me, the devs wanted a separation in motive from nanaya and shabriri). the aging untouchables, academics of the manse who escaped death alongside their peers, but witnesses to cruelty becoming, again, unknowing prime subjects for the frenzy to inhabit before losing themselves over time and becoming the monsters we seem them as today. to me, it seems redundant from a story/ dev perspective to introduce the manse and have the underlying mechanics/ plot be the exact same of the lands between : shabriri/nanaya acting as a villainous persona for the frenzy flame to manipulate the world. rather, I think they added the manse to add depth to the way the outer gods manifest their influence, that chaos can be born naturally the way rot and decay occur naturally.
I somewhat agree with most of this except for the Torch being their child because: Nanaya's torch explicitly says it is the spinal column of a failed Lord of Frenzy in an age long past. It also says it was made by attaching a dying Frenzy flame to a small spinal column. It also calls this person a "man", not child or some other descriptor. The fact that it is made by attaching a Flame to a Spine indicates some level of twisted thought as well as deliberate action. Of course it is possible that this old failed lord may have been someone close to Nanaya. It may even be possible that she was Maiden to this old Lord and the spinal column is THAT person's child and not Midra's. Nanaya seems to parallel Hyetta in a lot of ways, and Midra parallels Vyke. I agree that they are not nearly as malicious as Shabriri, but at least Nanaya seems to have despair that could produce the Flame of Frenzy within her.
@@krishnansubramoni7801 wait tea I forgot about the poetry in the description mentioning the man of an age long past! I think I honed in on the cradle/small descriptors and then the potential 'pregnancy' pose of nanaya's portrait and let my imagination run wild. I like the comparison of hyetta/vyke a lot - well meaning but unintended consequences.
Agree with the academic view of midra, since the manse is chock full of burned books. I think it’s the inevitability of the frenzy curse that did midra in. Just knowing about ir plants a seed of chaos
Along with Hawkshaw and Vaati’s videos on Midra this is now the third long form video I watch about Midra. But your vids are always my favorite and multiple perspectives are nice to make your own theories
Really scary to think that he could’ve removed the greatsword at any time but only held out for so long because Nanaya bade him to “endure”. Also won't be the first or last time a group of people were accused of heresy, brutally tortured, and then summon the Frenzied Flame in their despair.
What always made me scratch my head is that many in the Lands Between, including the Hornsent, know how the Frenzied Flame manifests, yet they create the perfect means or conditions for people to invoke said Flame. It's honestly a miracle that, as far as we know, not a single Numen/Shaman invoked the Flame when the Hornsent enacted their barbaric practices against the people of Shaman Village. They certainly or almost met the criteria. Although, to be fair, one must completely disregard the entire world for the Flame to truly take over, hence why Midra never gave in until we, the player, come along.
To be honest I don’t think they do know how it manifests. I think they just think it spreads like a disease, which it does, but they just treat it like one. Hence the constant persecution, killing and etc. that’s just my thoughts though.
@@pompneigh4329 Maybe Midra himself was a Numen. Manor in the painting looks with a lot of flowers and he has no horns, even if he was someone considered an intellectual before the Frenzied Flame.
@@themaniae4803 That's fair. He may not have been a Shaman, but a male Numen is absolutely a possibility, especially thanks to the character creation screen.
The lore of Midra and the surrounding area was a huge surprise to me during my playthrough, but I absolutely loved it. Looking forward to hearing your take on the lore!
The lore was good! The actual gameplay of the Abyssal forest was rough though. It's definitely the most underbaked area of the DLC. The Mansion was good though!
@@monsieurdorgat6864 i disagree. I read the message on the ground and turned it into a mini solid snake experience, it was fun. Would've helped if there were more items to find in the forest itself rather than just the talisman from parrying the ageless old ones and the manse items
Could Shabriri be offspring of Midra and Nanaya? Nanaya is clearly holding her belly as if she is pregnant, and I’ve heard others mention that she does seem to have a baby bump. Also, she has the signature flirtatious smirk that Shabriri has, perhaps implying a mannerism picked up from Nanaya? Would have loved to hear more speculation on the pregnancy (especially as a soon to father😅).
It’s finals week, I just finished my second one in as many days, and then you drop this banger to help me decompress and go to sleep. This is Elden lord behavior. Thank you sir.
The Abyssal Forests are my favourite ‘individual’ part of a Fromsoft game, especially from a storytelling perspective. It really feels like Fromsoft took a portion of the Shadow Lands map and purely dedicated it to their mastery of Horror and Atmosphere, that has very little to do with the rest of the game. As such, It feels like they were able to experiment more with the Abyssal Woods compared to everywhere else, both mechanically and narratively, in how they wanted the story of an area to be conveyed. It reminds me of the many unrelated short-stories that are attached to horror books from well respected authors. Very fittingly much like ‘The King in Yellow’ from Chambers
There's a lot cool there, but honestly it would have helped if they filled it with more sites of interest or just made it smaller so people playing blind like me wouldn't waste time scouring them for nothing...
@@monsieurdorgat6864 very true😂 I personally didn’t mind that. It added to what I was talking about: that feeling of oppression, horror, emptiness… despair. Of course it isn’t the most convenient, but as a horror book fan, I was delighted with how delicately and intentionally Fromsoft handled the approach to gameplay. They could’ve made it more arcade-y and artificial by filling it out with content and convenience, but they stuck to a vision and I respect that. Of course, I understand your perspectives too
@@HeevaEgo I am also a HUGE horror nerd. I do agree there's SOME value in you wandering around and seeing it desolate, but at some point dread gives way to tedium if it overstays its welcome. Like, take Five Nights at Freddies (the o.g.'s, anyway) - a game that's kinda scary for 10 minutes and then frustrating for 3 hours because lackluster gameplay becomes the focus and breaks your immersion.
Amazing video. Nothing more Christmass theme than a video on a nihilist sickess that burns the eyes. If you please, i want to add something to this Majestic content. -As Italian, thanks a lot to talk about the Mirko and Sab and about the Kami-Outer God thing. -I also believe the 3 fingers are at least the phisical form of this Outer God, as mostly informations we have about the FF spells are about Fingers, Shabriri and Midra. And thinking about it, maybe Yelough (My headcanon is this is the name of this Outer God) is dead and the Fingers are all what remains of its power, a flame with no master. Also, two facts about Vyke and Yura. Japanese makes it even more clear: "...He did it for the love of her Maiden or SOMEONE whispered this idea in his mind?" He was Shabrieried! About Yura, in his Questline, before a brutal cut content, he was suppose to hear voices during the journey. And now, the big point i want to discuss: Dark and Chaos relationship. While yes, they have a connection as they are saw as the biggest danger for everyone and a dangerous power, this needs some clarifications. Chaos is a force about total destruction to bring back the world to the nothing before life, it's pure Nihilism against the concept of creation itself. Dark is very different. Yes, it can be a destructive power, but is a power censured, blocked and declared bad by Gwyn, and while Gwyn is powerful indeed, he's not at the level of the Greater Will, not even at Marika's level and she also blocked things considered bad by her. And in all Miyazaki's games, trying to block something will just unleash it with more strenght later. Human pus of Ds3 is a pretty good example of what happens to Dark after centuries of being stagnant, blocked by the Dark Sign. And i can say this because Dark was supposed to be the next age after the Age of Fire, but like Marika, Gwyn decided another way. Even because, Dark is literally from where humanity and Gods themself come from. (Fromthe Dark they came... Dark is THAT Dark, yep.) It's not a mistake the connection between Chaos and Dark, just wanted to make sure the differences, especially for the different world setting of the two games.
Unsure if midra and Nanaya created the Ageing untouchables, from Midra’s diary entry he seems utterly terrified of it. Doesn’t line up. I think one came to the abyssal woods, maybe even with nanaya? And it started from there, she encouraged him or organised that first contact. Also if the ageing untouchables were such a vanguard why didn’t they stop the inquisitors? No I think nanaya brought one and the misery that the inquisition brought created more, maybe even the executed outside have something to do with it. Love the observation about midra moving like a puppet 🤌🏽 😃
*Me on my exam finals week*: Panic *SmoughTown drops a lore video*: Calm SmoughTown, if you see this, I want to say I rlly appreciate your lore vidoes, Midra personally is my favorite character in Elden Ring.
the "Endure" motif always makes me think of the circle of zerthimon where the nameless one created it and crafted the lessons in order to gain dak'kon's blade and trap him in service. i don't know if its intentional but but i love the connection
I don't think you realize how profound it feels to me that today, of all days, this was posted. Ever since the DLC dropped, Midras' character and story has carried deep meaning to me. Things came to a head today, I made some difficult decisions and I see this right before I go to sleep. It feels incredibly meaningful to me. Chaos and order are amazing. God is amazing. Love your videos man, thank you for making them.
I feel like nanaya’s attempts to get a lord of frenzied flame was the first method and it evolved over time into the way shabriri does it now. Maybe the idea of “enduring” the pain needed to evolve into something greater to get a true lord of the flame. Hmm who knows. Great video smough! Keep it up.
should mention that the boss room is known as the Discussion Chamber, did he discuss with the three fingers? or did the whole house discuss with the three fingers?. A side note, does putting the material on the beheaded figures stop the grapes from growing/stop them turning into untouchables?
I'm a bit late here but I think a lot of people have overlooked the connection between the "abyssal" serpent and the "abyssal" woods. There's no way this was done by accident, and messmers serpent even resides within his eye, like the frenzied flame does. The madding hands eyes also look identical to the abyssal serpents. This would explain why marika was so scared of messmer, and why the abyssal serpent has heavy connections to satan in the Bible.
I've had this idea for awhile and I think there's ample evidence of it now, that the 3 fingers are marikas original fingers. Marika and her order are referenced multiple times as twisted and sick from the start. What better way to dispel order than by usurping it and then destroying the very thing that governs order, the elden ring itself. The 3 fingers proximity to Marika and her capital, the fact that Marika has gone to great lengths to conceal her past, the fact that all emperyeans are assigned fingers all corroborate this theory.
I still hold the idea that the three fingers, and the frenzied flame itself, are an emergency reset option in case something went wrong. Something like Metyr, the designated communicator with the GW, losing contact with it. Metyr births a world destroying thing that's meant to help accelerate the destruction, but the flame itself is inherently in all living things. We see so many people and creatures affected by it.
Honestly I was expecting the headcanon at the finale: Nanaya was Shabriri all along. Think about that: there's an entity, first and most important prophet of the Frenzied Flame (Yelough Anix?) and the Three Fingers, who can possess corpses and live through ages (we know for sure he had contact with Vike and tried to manipulate him). And then there's that painting, where Nanaya has her eyes covered and a little smirk on her mouth, just like the talisman of Shabriri.
“Have you seen the yellow sign?” The Yellow Sign is a fictional symbol or glyph, first described in Robert W. Chambers' book The King In Yellow. Its nature is unknown, but it seems to possess a strange siren call to the dark world of the King in Yellow and Carcosa, such that those who are exposed to it are doomed. this immediately came to mind for me when I first encountered The Frenzied Flame. There are some parallels to yet another lovecraftian theme.
Always amazing videos from you! I actually changed some of my opinions on the nature of some things based on this video's analysis! I really think a more appropriate analysis of the Fingers are as these alien but still living and fallible characters - with strange personalities of their own. The Two Fingers are capable of hubris and lies, and the Three Fingers really does seem like the black sheep of the bunch. Maybe the best interpretation is: what do Fingers do if they despair, as people do? Outer Gods are always discovered by those looking for answers - and perhaps the Three Fingers discovered Frenzy much like how Mohg and the Bloodfiends discovered the Formless Mother. I'm honestly of the opinion that the Frenzied Flame represents the true Greater Will, which has soured at creation. The Two Fingers and even Metyr no longer receive messages from the Greater Will, yet the Three Fingers (who, thanks to you, I definitely believe was the "aberrant child" of Metyr) speak for a truly active cosmic power. However, it's one that no one wants to hear. And I think that's sort of what the Frenzied Flame represents - truths so ugly and so deeply baked into the fabric of the world that you must either live a comfortable lie (your vision obscured and tinted by gold, sort of "rose/gold-tinted lenses) or go mad with the horrific truth that god/Greater Will is not simply dead or dormant, but it hates its creation and wants to undo it all. It really harkens back to Demon's Souls and the Old One. They say the eyes are windows into the human soul, and i think this is very true in Elden Ring. I think it's worth understanding that it's the Golden Order society that considers the Flame of Frenzy a disease, but it's likely that the madness being inflicted upon you when someone stares at you with frenzied eyes is also a matter of empathy, much like looking into someone's eyes IRL is a sign or method of empathizing. Looking into the eyes of the Frenzied makes you share in their feelings - in this case, desperation, horror, and apocalyptic despair. Calling it a "disease" is a way of explaining away that empathy and dehumanizing those who are "afflicted" by feelings of despair. The physical flame is the associated action of melting everything away - the only way to undo the original sin that cannot be fixed any other way. The fact that rats can be afflicted might actually imply that animals in the ER universe also have emotions, and rats are the most susceptible to feelings of despair. After all, how else would goats carry Frenzy, since they don't eat corpses? Midra then is such an interesting character in this. It really seems he was introduced to this philosophy and subject by Nanaya, but he only wanted to research it. He thus conducted all these terrible experiments, but the fact he never wanted to release frenzy shows that he was really only interested in studying it, until the very end. Of course, it is always the forces of Order that cause the release and proliferation of Chaos, by their own paranoia and violent overreach.
You truly are a treasure. Your content is one of the few things that have kept me (relatively) sane over the last few weeks. Insert whichever words that amount to an internet someone giving you the highest of praise - that’s from me. You’re the bee’s knees, and I hope that someday Miyazaki picks your brain for ideas in his next creation.
@@SmoughTown see, this is why I find you to be a lovely human! I am not the target demographic to have stumbled on your content. I am not a gamer. I do, however, have a fascination with a *good* story. Video games are an excellent medium to tell a story, especially a multi-faceted one. You’ve made it possible for (at least more than a few) people to enjoy a work of art, who would otherwise never be able to. You take the time to show appreciation to “fans”. I’ve seen you give words of encouragement to rising content creators. You’re doing this whole Human™️ thing pretty okay, in my book. With the power to bestow internet Christmas tidings, I truly hope that you are able to live your life in whatever way brings you the most joy.
@@BlueberryBatter I am truly grateful that the algorithm found you. I am just so lucky to get all the kind support I do, and I am thankful you are here. I hope you have a magic Christmas period as well!
another amazing video! the frenzied flame has the most terrifying stories in the game - and I'll never forget the moment I entered the abyssal woods and felt its dread, although its a shame I didn't found it by myself after giving a lot of honest trying, because the path that leads to it is way too hidden, and had to watch others's playthroughs to figure it out... ( to see a tiny ladder at shadow keep and the hidden wall )
I also enjoy the significance of Melina asking you whether you think that life endures, 'There is beauty in that, is there not?'. Could you even witness the beauty if your eyes are burning with the despair of Frenzy? If you fully give in to despair you are blinded if not first by the bright yellow chaos flame's light, eventually by your eyes burning out. Giving in to Frenzy will prevent you from being able to witness the beauty of the world that remains forever.
Im so happy! This just made my whole week!(my week has been awesome though thanks to the other channel) Poor Midra, I feel he was tricked to suffer :( but this explains it soooo much better! MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!
I can't remember if anyone ever brought it up but: Do you think Shabriri being blind and the fact that the Three Fingers came into contact with him, but only speaking through fingerprints is like reading braille? The lore says that you become "Blind" from the Frenzy Flame by your eyes melting, and the fact that the Three Fingers don't have a "mouth piece" to speak with, they do so with fingerprints, leaving indents of their "words" behind, so, I'd like to think that's how the blind followers "hear" the words of the Three Fingers: They read them like braille. Again, this likely has already been brought up before, I can't remember if it has or not, but I was rewatching Elden Ring lore stuff and just kinda thought about it.
One correction to this video is that the guidebook for Shadow of the Erdtree describes the Aging Untouchables as eldritch beings other than that good video Smough and have a good day
One thing I absolutely love about Midra is that he confirms something hinted at in the base game if we become the Lord of Frenzied Flame. Which is that once you no longer resist the frenzy doesn’t violently take control. Rather when you embrace it there’s a sort of levity.
I simply love that despite how hidden the route of chaos is, once you find it you are suddenly overwhelmed by all this crazy lore, which completely restructures our worldview of elden ring You always deliver the finest gems of lore videos man!
There’s a diary note in his library that describes an encounter with an Aging Untouchable, and it also provides gameplay insights into how to defeat them. As to who wrote the diary page? It’s difficult to know. Because depending on your answer, the entire lore of the region gets recontextualised. Personally, I think it was one of Midra’s men who wrote the page, who also met one of those creatures, not midra himself
@@HeevaEgoprobably the nice butler who greets us upon entering the hall. Being a servant he woudnt have been inquisited but would have still been close enough to the goings ons to know what was what.
I’ve been looking forwards to this video for a while, being able to watch a video on one of my favourite gaming bosses of all time, while looking at the cosmic horror aspects of the Frenzied Flame When battling Mini Midra watching the cutscene it immediately popped into my head the idea that he was becoming the Lord of Frenzied Flame, and then the amazingly discordant music that plays truly made my jaw drop
My last playthrough was a frenzied flame build, was the most fun I’ve had by far. It was always so funny just walking straight into enemies or invaders and if their poise was low enough, them just getting stunlocked until their meter was full and I get a free heavy R2 with Vyke’s.
You know what I think would make for an AMAZING Smough video?! Something like “The Many Flames of the Lands Between”! There are soooo many!! Frenzied Flame, Ghost Flame, Blood Flame, Fires of Slumber, Takers Flame (Blasphemous), Death Flame (or Death Blight Flame?), Omen Flame, Holy Flame, Flame of Ruin, Messmer Flame, Flame of Rot … I think I’m missing like 12 more lol. This would be epic!! It’s 4:30am on Christmas morning and I’m running on no sleep and hours and hours of ST ER lore vids! Forgive me for rambling!! 😏
On the fingers, one other thing I noticed is that both two and three are prime numbers. Two can divide any even number, while three can only divide some odd numbers. The most interesting point related to the topics in the video: primes can only be divided by one and themselves, but two is a stronger means of division among other numbers than three, and two is the only even prime.
This is it. This is the singlemost video I have been been WAITING for the moment I saw that awful forest with an orange hue. I've been fascinated with the Frenzied Flame the moment I wandered into the village in the weeping penninsula. I'm so excited for this video.
Im so happy someone else noticed how Midra's movements were puppet like. Ive seen another interpretation that he danced with the sword embracing the destruction. But I prefer the idea that his autonomy was completely removed when embracing the flame
@SmoughTown I know its not a 1 to 1 correlation in the shapes/pattern, but maybe the 3 fingers did grab Midra - and maybe there is a twist, and that grab is how the 3 FINGERS came to have fingerprint whorls imprinted upon it. Meaning, if the grabbing occurred after Midra got spiked with the great sword of damnation through the head, that unwound and branching spike inside his body might've left the resulting imprints on the 3 fingers. This sequence would also explain why Midra didn't immediately become a lord of frenzied flame - the spike acted as a ward to the 3 fingers influance, Midra only succumbing to the flame after he pulled the sword from his body. The whole process meant to strengthen the enduring flame inside the "vessel" of Midra.
I've only just noticed with how the enlargement of the icon for Shabriri's woe that it looks oddly close to Verdigris... no idea what that brings to the table or to the timeline if anything at all but it really does ponder the question how exactly old is Shabriri?
What if Nanaya called upon the inquisition, knowing what was to come? she seemed to be isolated in a secure location, as if she knows whats coming and locked herself away.
One thought I had was "what could cause a two-finger to fall to Frenzy?" The only thing I could come up with is the realization that the Greater Will had abandoned them
Loved finding Midra, and he absolutely feels like a god puppeting a body during the fight. Personally I believe Nanaya's Torch is composed of two parts - the first being the Flame of Frenzy, which after this video I think Nanaya kept with her and nursed the flame so it wouldn't die out (as in, she had the flame prior to arriving at the Manse). The second part is the small spinal column, which I think is the child of Nanaya and Midra that did not survive - likely even being killed by the inquisition and driving Midra to commit to becoming the lord before being impaled.
My favorite character from Shadow of the Erdtree. He suffers in interesting ways. He never meant chaos, but in learning you find that order and chaos are just two brothers with a mean streak against each other within a circle. Ying and yang if that helps. Reminds me too much of myself. Midra is very human and sorta reminds me of High Lord Wolnir. Midra did want this for his life, craved discovery. Wolnir was similar in the case of being in a similar situation, not exactly undeath. Definitely fear and pain. One wanted to live, the other acted like a gate keeper. But fear in the end and loss lead to these beings becoming damned within circumstance.
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They also had a Monster Hunter line for Rise, didn't they? I think it was them.
This has been such a huge year for you. Congrats, dude.
Am I bugging? I don't see a lumenwood product on their site
Do you think Myter birthed the three fingers? Maybe it was an act of retaliation or just a product of her wound? Did Myter call to the other outer gods when the greater will stopped communications? It’s just such an interesting area to speculate
Lol, nvm. You do touch on these ideas
Interesting that the Frenzied Flame afflicts the “Cuckoo” knights.
The knights have clearly, uh, gone cuckoo.
I'm entering you in a contest for pun of the year! Good work, fellow "true" student, of life.
Incredible.
Magnificent.
If Shabriri accused the Merchants of being disciples of the Frenzied Flame, and it wasn't true, then that would make it "slander". I think that the Golden Order eventually figured out that Shabriri had lied, but by that time the merchants actually had been overtaken by Frenzy, because they'd been locked in a pit with the 3-Fingers. So the merchants were just left where they were, and Shabriri was punished as the one "responsible" for the mistake.
Also there is evidence that the merchants are protected from the sentencing of Elemor, so the imprisonment could have been done even earliar before the erdtree.
@@Theanimeisforme please expand
The timeline doesn't match up. Shabriri is older than Marika's reign by quite a while, the merchants were imprisoned during her reign.
But all the free merchants in the world are also touched by Frenzy...
The merchants were secretly worshipping the 3 in their off hours.
It’s pretty chilly today, maybe burning the world in infernal fire isn’t such a bad thing.
agreed
Infernal fire makes me wish for a nuclear winter. *lights cigarette*
to be fair thats just a nuclear apocalypse and at this point im just waiting for someone to push the button
Ah to be warm for the rest of my life
@@cybersearcher1041 to be fair "duh"
I think a really interesting piece of lore no one talks about in regards to Frenzy is the presence they showcase in the Consecrated Snowfields. Here you find a number of large trolls with frenzied eyes, similar to the one that is clearly guarding Volcano Manor. You also see frenzied human guards around these trolls, in a suprisingly "orderly" guarding configuration. It really gives the idea that there are multiple tiers of agency the Frenzied Flame operates on. That a contingency was being set so if the Haligtree was successful they could attempt to spread frenzy to Miquella's new empire. I think this makes a good parallel to your idea of the aging untouchables harvesting grapes for a purpose. Great video Smough!!
That's a great point tbh bud! Youre right, this does seem like another 'cell' in the frenzied flame cult.
Thanks very much! Glad you enjoyed
worth note that the “as above so below” hand gesture baphomet is so frequently represented with depicts one hand with two fingers extended upward, and the other with three pointed downward. not sure whether that really offers any lore implications though still a fun potential inspiration for elden ring’s representations of order and disorder
no way hi sunny
@@xanathar8659 lmao hi xan
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD
THE DEPTHS OF YOUR FOOLISHNESS!!!
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!!!!
AHHHH MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD…… MAY CHASO TAKE THE WORLD!🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I think in your previous video on the three fingers you had mentioned how the fingerprint is the word of the three fingers and thusly the three fingers are just madly repeating the same thing over and over again. I think it's also worth noting that the violin theme associated with the merchants and the frenzied Flame and now midra in his boss fight has a waltz time signature that just repeats over and over again, one two three one two three. The influence of the fingers and the flame they embody even makes its way into this lullaby, or if it is still the case that St Trina taught it to the merchants, maybe this more soothing one two three somehow manages to assuage the effects of the frenzied Flame
Reminds me of the music box from Bloodborne. Very simple tune meant to soothe those in suffering
I hadn't noticed that before. The idea of the waltz 3/4 time signature tying in with the Three Fingers is brilliant!
Also interesting with the tie to St. Trina, that the lullaby has connections with her and the Flame. Madness and sleep are both blinding, and a means of escapism for the downtrodden in the Lands Between.
weve played it
The difference between the stability of 2 or 3 things is a big topic in astrophysics with a formal name: the N-body problem.
At n=2, orbits are stable and can spiral through the cosmos for a long time (Two-body problem)
At n=3, orbits are chaotic and unpredictable (Three-body problem)
--
Miriel knows this. The union of the house of the Moon and the house of the Erdtree was supposed to be a stable n=2 solution to war. But when it's known that Marika is Radagon, 2 is revealed to be 3, and since Marika is already in a stable configuration of 2 with Godfrey, we're at 4 and stability is entirely out of the door. They're two sets of Two-bodies flinging each other out of stable configurations.
I think that might be why the Golden Order's sacred geometry imagery has 3 rings in a triangle, Radagon was trying to stabilize an n=3 solution in his renaissance-man phase, which we know to be mathematically impossible.
Nice observation
Fantastic points being made here
Don't think Miyazaki was inspired by a quazi-intellectual book that rewrites history and portrays itself as "a smart book for academics" but sacrifices the basics for a good story essentially turning astrophysics into Thor levels of stupidity.
@@kaingates I'm not referring to the novel, but the very real physics concept it was named after.
Three shall be the number shall thou count
Four shall thou not count
Nor shall thou count to two, excepting that thou then count to Three.
Five is right out!
Midra is hands down my favourite fight in the game, maybe all of Fromsouls. It feels like a chaotic dance.
"something of the Golden Order" can be seen within the Greatsword of Damnation, which is true: the sigil of the Elden Ring has a similar line with barbs coming off of it. It suggests that the Golden Order learned from the cruelty of the Inquisitors and how they (very effectively) dealt with heresies. Marika is literally crucified on it. Midra being a noble brought low is an interesting metaphor for the goal of frenzy, too. Everything distinquished about him scoured away...
I agree with all of your findings except, personally, I interpreted the manse and all of its inhabitants as unknowing victims of the frenzy flame. That this story of the manse was to highlight the inevitability of the frenzy, similar to the slow crawl of godwyn's deathblight, and not like the deliberate, sinister agenda of shabriri in the lands between. that the presence of frenzy at the manse was a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts - that perhaps it was truly an academic endeavor to understand this frenzy flame, then an honest effort by the hornsent to stop the study before it got out of control and everyone involved unknowingly furthered the frenzy flame's influence. the tortured soul recounting his plea didnt seem to know why the inquisitors were persecuting the people of the manse, to me it seems like at that point, the frenzy hadn't made itself known (the 'unjust' slaughter laying the foundation for the frenzy). I saw nanaya's "endure" as genuine, but unfortunately, midra's enduring slowly primed him as a candidate for the frenzy (floodgates, as you said). the spinal column nanaya cradles their newborn child, who perhaps fell victim to the frenzy hungry and alone in his dead mother's arms and not some sick trophy from nanaya's previous frenzy victim. (why would shabriri not possess her body to speak to us in this moment? to me, the devs wanted a separation in motive from nanaya and shabriri). the aging untouchables, academics of the manse who escaped death alongside their peers, but witnesses to cruelty becoming, again, unknowing prime subjects for the frenzy to inhabit before losing themselves over time and becoming the monsters we seem them as today.
to me, it seems redundant from a story/ dev perspective to introduce the manse and have the underlying mechanics/ plot be the exact same of the lands between : shabriri/nanaya acting as a villainous persona for the frenzy flame to manipulate the world. rather, I think they added the manse to add depth to the way the outer gods manifest their influence, that chaos can be born naturally the way rot and decay occur naturally.
I somewhat agree with most of this except for the Torch being their child because:
Nanaya's torch explicitly says it is the spinal column of a failed Lord of Frenzy in an age long past. It also says it was made by attaching a dying Frenzy flame to a small spinal column. It also calls this person a "man", not child or some other descriptor. The fact that it is made by attaching a Flame to a Spine indicates some level of twisted thought as well as deliberate action. Of course it is possible that this old failed lord may have been someone close to Nanaya. It may even be possible that she was Maiden to this old Lord and the spinal column is THAT person's child and not Midra's. Nanaya seems to parallel Hyetta in a lot of ways, and Midra parallels Vyke. I agree that they are not nearly as malicious as Shabriri, but at least Nanaya seems to have despair that could produce the Flame of Frenzy within her.
@@krishnansubramoni7801 wait tea I forgot about the poetry in the description mentioning the man of an age long past! I think I honed in on the cradle/small descriptors and then the potential 'pregnancy' pose of nanaya's portrait and let my imagination run wild. I like the comparison of hyetta/vyke a lot - well meaning but unintended consequences.
Agree with the academic view of midra, since the manse is chock full of burned books. I think it’s the inevitability of the frenzy curse that did midra in. Just knowing about ir plants a seed of chaos
Along with Hawkshaw and Vaati’s videos on Midra this is now the third long form video I watch about Midra. But your vids are always my favorite and multiple perspectives are nice to make your own theories
Thanks my friend ❤️really appreciate that
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD
THE DEPTHS OF YOUR FOOLISHNESS!
Really scary to think that he could’ve removed the greatsword at any time but only held out for so long because Nanaya bade him to “endure”.
Also won't be the first or last time a group of people were accused of heresy, brutally tortured, and then summon the Frenzied Flame in their despair.
What always made me scratch my head is that many in the Lands Between, including the Hornsent, know how the Frenzied Flame manifests, yet they create the perfect means or conditions for people to invoke said Flame.
It's honestly a miracle that, as far as we know, not a single Numen/Shaman invoked the Flame when the Hornsent enacted their barbaric practices against the people of Shaman Village. They certainly or almost met the criteria. Although, to be fair, one must completely disregard the entire world for the Flame to truly take over, hence why Midra never gave in until we, the player, come along.
To be honest I don’t think they do know how it manifests. I think they just think it spreads like a disease, which it does, but they just treat it like one. Hence the constant persecution, killing and etc. that’s just my thoughts though.
@@pompneigh4329 Maybe Midra himself was a Numen. Manor in the painting looks with a lot of flowers and he has no horns, even if he was someone considered an intellectual before the Frenzied Flame.
@@themaniae4803 That's fair. He may not have been a Shaman, but a male Numen is absolutely a possibility, especially thanks to the character creation screen.
@@DinosaurBoy04 That's fair, too. It makes it a self-fulfilling inevitability.
The lore of Midra and the surrounding area was a huge surprise to me during my playthrough, but I absolutely loved it.
Looking forward to hearing your take on the lore!
Same Ross, I really enjoyed it. Hope you enjoy my take!
The lore was good! The actual gameplay of the Abyssal forest was rough though. It's definitely the most underbaked area of the DLC. The Mansion was good though!
@@monsieurdorgat6864 i disagree. I read the message on the ground and turned it into a mini solid snake experience, it was fun. Would've helped if there were more items to find in the forest itself rather than just the talisman from parrying the ageless old ones and the manse items
Nobody:
My brother with his frenzied flame build: AHHHHH!!!!! SWEET BEAUTEOUS CHAOS!!!!!!!
Could Shabriri be offspring of Midra and Nanaya?
Nanaya is clearly holding her belly as if she is pregnant, and I’ve heard others mention that she does seem to have a baby bump. Also, she has the signature flirtatious smirk that Shabriri has, perhaps implying a mannerism picked up from Nanaya?
Would have loved to hear more speculation on the pregnancy (especially as a soon to father😅).
I originally believed the three fingers and the two fingers to have a Darkstalker Kaathe and Kingseeker Frampt dynamic between them.
It’s finals week, I just finished my second one in as many days, and then you drop this banger to help me decompress and go to sleep. This is Elden lord behavior. Thank you sir.
My pleasure my friend, hope you enjoyed the video and good luck in your finals!
Thank you for making this video. Midra is an interesting character and trying to figure out his story was so intriguing.
My pleasure, was a great one to work on
Check out 19:51. Metyr has 4 fingers in each hand but it looks like each hand is made of 2 arms in a spiral ending in only 2 fingers each.
More peak from the best souls lore guy, really loved your work on the ptumerian (however you spell it) tombs in bloodborne got me into the channel!
Thanks my friend and so awesome to hear that the Pthumerian one brought you here! Really love that video tbh
The Abyssal Forests are my favourite ‘individual’ part of a Fromsoft game, especially from a storytelling perspective. It really feels like Fromsoft took a portion of the Shadow Lands map and purely dedicated it to their mastery of Horror and Atmosphere, that has very little to do with the rest of the game. As such, It feels like they were able to experiment more with the Abyssal Woods compared to everywhere else, both mechanically and narratively, in how they wanted the story of an area to be conveyed.
It reminds me of the many unrelated short-stories that are attached to horror books from well respected authors. Very fittingly much like ‘The King in Yellow’ from Chambers
There's a lot cool there, but honestly it would have helped if they filled it with more sites of interest or just made it smaller so people playing blind like me wouldn't waste time scouring them for nothing...
@@monsieurdorgat6864 very true😂 I personally didn’t mind that. It added to what I was talking about: that feeling of oppression, horror, emptiness… despair. Of course it isn’t the most convenient, but as a horror book fan, I was delighted with how delicately and intentionally Fromsoft handled the approach to gameplay. They could’ve made it more arcade-y and artificial by filling it out with content and convenience, but they stuck to a vision and I respect that.
Of course, I understand your perspectives too
@@HeevaEgo I am also a HUGE horror nerd. I do agree there's SOME value in you wandering around and seeing it desolate, but at some point dread gives way to tedium if it overstays its welcome.
Like, take Five Nights at Freddies (the o.g.'s, anyway) - a game that's kinda scary for 10 minutes and then frustrating for 3 hours because lackluster gameplay becomes the focus and breaks your immersion.
Midra's Manse is one of my favorite Fromsoft areas. The buildup in the Abyssal Woods was masterful storytelling. May CHAOS...take the world!
Amazing video. Nothing more Christmass theme than a video on a nihilist sickess that burns the eyes.
If you please, i want to add something to this Majestic content.
-As Italian, thanks a lot to talk about the Mirko and Sab and about the Kami-Outer God thing.
-I also believe the 3 fingers are at least the phisical form of this Outer God, as mostly informations we have about the FF spells are about Fingers, Shabriri and Midra. And thinking about it, maybe Yelough (My headcanon is this is the name of this Outer God) is dead and the Fingers are all what remains of its power, a flame with no master.
Also, two facts about Vyke and Yura.
Japanese makes it even more clear: "...He did it for the love of her Maiden or SOMEONE whispered this idea in his mind?" He was Shabrieried!
About Yura, in his Questline, before a brutal cut content, he was suppose to hear voices during the journey.
And now, the big point i want to discuss: Dark and Chaos relationship. While yes, they have a connection as they are saw as the biggest danger for everyone and a dangerous power, this needs some clarifications. Chaos is a force about total destruction to bring back the world to the nothing before life, it's pure Nihilism against the concept of creation itself.
Dark is very different. Yes, it can be a destructive power, but is a power censured, blocked and declared bad by Gwyn, and while Gwyn is powerful indeed, he's not at the level of the Greater Will, not even at Marika's level and she also blocked things considered bad by her. And in all Miyazaki's games, trying to block something will just unleash it with more strenght later. Human pus of Ds3 is a pretty good example of what happens to Dark after centuries of being stagnant, blocked by the Dark Sign.
And i can say this because Dark was supposed to be the next age after the Age of Fire, but like Marika, Gwyn decided another way. Even because, Dark is literally from where humanity and Gods themself come from. (Fromthe Dark they came... Dark is THAT Dark, yep.)
It's not a mistake the connection between Chaos and Dark, just wanted to make sure the differences, especially for the different world setting of the two games.
Boss is gone. Slow day at work. Smough posts an hour long lore video. Today is a good day.
Hope you enjoy my friend
Unsure if midra and Nanaya created the Ageing untouchables, from Midra’s diary entry he seems utterly terrified of it. Doesn’t line up. I think one came to the abyssal woods, maybe even with nanaya? And it started from there, she encouraged him or organised that first contact. Also if the ageing untouchables were such a vanguard why didn’t they stop the inquisitors? No I think nanaya brought one and the misery that the inquisition brought created more, maybe even the executed outside have something to do with it. Love the observation about midra moving like a puppet 🤌🏽 😃
*Me on my exam finals week*: Panic
*SmoughTown drops a lore video*: Calm
SmoughTown, if you see this, I want to say I rlly appreciate your lore vidoes, Midra personally is my favorite character in Elden Ring.
Thanks my friend, it really does mean the world to hear that. Midra is one of my faves as well!
Good luck with your finals!
YESSSSS. Smough is amazing. Keep up the good work, I'll watch whatever you come up with
Really appreciate that my friend! Thanks for being here
the "Endure" motif always makes me think of the circle of zerthimon where the nameless one created it and crafted the lessons in order to gain dak'kon's blade and trap him in service. i don't know if its intentional but but i love the connection
I don't think you realize how profound it feels to me that today, of all days, this was posted. Ever since the DLC dropped, Midras' character and story has carried deep meaning to me. Things came to a head today, I made some difficult decisions and I see this right before I go to sleep. It feels incredibly meaningful to me. Chaos and order are amazing. God is amazing. Love your videos man, thank you for making them.
My pleasure and so pleased you found the video meaningful
Can I ask why Midras' story is meaningful to you???
I feel like nanaya’s attempts to get a lord of frenzied flame was the first method and it evolved over time into the way shabriri does it now. Maybe the idea of “enduring” the pain needed to evolve into something greater to get a true lord of the flame. Hmm who knows.
Great video smough! Keep it up.
should mention that the boss room is known as the Discussion Chamber, did he discuss with the three fingers? or did the whole house discuss with the three fingers?. A side note, does putting the material on the beheaded figures stop the grapes from growing/stop them turning into untouchables?
I'm a bit late here but I think a lot of people have overlooked the connection between the "abyssal" serpent and the "abyssal" woods. There's no way this was done by accident, and messmers serpent even resides within his eye, like the frenzied flame does. The madding hands eyes also look identical to the abyssal serpents. This would explain why marika was so scared of messmer, and why the abyssal serpent has heavy connections to satan in the Bible.
I've had this idea for awhile and I think there's ample evidence of it now, that the 3 fingers are marikas original fingers. Marika and her order are referenced multiple times as twisted and sick from the start. What better way to dispel order than by usurping it and then destroying the very thing that governs order, the elden ring itself. The 3 fingers proximity to Marika and her capital, the fact that Marika has gone to great lengths to conceal her past, the fact that all emperyeans are assigned fingers all corroborate this theory.
It's amazing how you cooked so much lore for such a mysterious character. I love his tragic backstory
I still hold the idea that the three fingers, and the frenzied flame itself, are an emergency reset option in case something went wrong. Something like Metyr, the designated communicator with the GW, losing contact with it. Metyr births a world destroying thing that's meant to help accelerate the destruction, but the flame itself is inherently in all living things. We see so many people and creatures affected by it.
Honestly I was expecting the headcanon at the finale: Nanaya was Shabriri all along.
Think about that: there's an entity, first and most important prophet of the Frenzied Flame (Yelough Anix?) and the Three Fingers, who can possess corpses and live through ages (we know for sure he had contact with Vike and tried to manipulate him).
And then there's that painting, where Nanaya has her eyes covered and a little smirk on her mouth, just like the talisman of Shabriri.
“Have you seen the yellow sign?”
The Yellow Sign is a fictional symbol or glyph, first described in Robert W. Chambers' book The King In Yellow. Its nature is unknown, but it seems to possess a strange siren call to the dark world of the King in Yellow and Carcosa, such that those who are exposed to it are doomed.
this immediately came to mind for me when I first encountered The Frenzied Flame. There are some parallels to yet another lovecraftian theme.
Three fingers are definitely a reference to Chambers' yellow sign.
Such a cool design for a character tortured by the power they coveted
Dragons, gold, trees, serpents, rot, blood.
*They all burn the same.*
Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame!
Midra? More like Peakra.
so true
Boo. Also good job
Agreed.
Praise the sub notification working
Always amazing videos from you! I actually changed some of my opinions on the nature of some things based on this video's analysis! I really think a more appropriate analysis of the Fingers are as these alien but still living and fallible characters - with strange personalities of their own. The Two Fingers are capable of hubris and lies, and the Three Fingers really does seem like the black sheep of the bunch. Maybe the best interpretation is: what do Fingers do if they despair, as people do? Outer Gods are always discovered by those looking for answers - and perhaps the Three Fingers discovered Frenzy much like how Mohg and the Bloodfiends discovered the Formless Mother.
I'm honestly of the opinion that the Frenzied Flame represents the true Greater Will, which has soured at creation. The Two Fingers and even Metyr no longer receive messages from the Greater Will, yet the Three Fingers (who, thanks to you, I definitely believe was the "aberrant child" of Metyr) speak for a truly active cosmic power. However, it's one that no one wants to hear.
And I think that's sort of what the Frenzied Flame represents - truths so ugly and so deeply baked into the fabric of the world that you must either live a comfortable lie (your vision obscured and tinted by gold, sort of "rose/gold-tinted lenses) or go mad with the horrific truth that god/Greater Will is not simply dead or dormant, but it hates its creation and wants to undo it all. It really harkens back to Demon's Souls and the Old One.
They say the eyes are windows into the human soul, and i think this is very true in Elden Ring. I think it's worth understanding that it's the Golden Order society that considers the Flame of Frenzy a disease, but it's likely that the madness being inflicted upon you when someone stares at you with frenzied eyes is also a matter of empathy, much like looking into someone's eyes IRL is a sign or method of empathizing. Looking into the eyes of the Frenzied makes you share in their feelings - in this case, desperation, horror, and apocalyptic despair. Calling it a "disease" is a way of explaining away that empathy and dehumanizing those who are "afflicted" by feelings of despair. The physical flame is the associated action of melting everything away - the only way to undo the original sin that cannot be fixed any other way. The fact that rats can be afflicted might actually imply that animals in the ER universe also have emotions, and rats are the most susceptible to feelings of despair. After all, how else would goats carry Frenzy, since they don't eat corpses?
Midra then is such an interesting character in this. It really seems he was introduced to this philosophy and subject by Nanaya, but he only wanted to research it. He thus conducted all these terrible experiments, but the fact he never wanted to release frenzy shows that he was really only interested in studying it, until the very end. Of course, it is always the forces of Order that cause the release and proliferation of Chaos, by their own paranoia and violent overreach.
Thank you for covering Midra, he's such a mysterious character, always wondered what he's up to.
35:37 wth is that sound effect 😂😂😂
i truly watch midras cutscene everytime i get chills 😭
Frenzy?? I was frenzied once…
They buried me in a dungeon...
A Leyndell Dungeon.
@@Vassal_Beastieit was full of omens… I hate omens…
@@Vassal_Beastie A Leyendell Dungeon full of fingers…
The fingers made me frenzied.
@@pepper6174frenzied? I was frenzied once.
@@pepper6174 Frenzied? I was frenzied once.
You truly are a treasure. Your content is one of the few things that have kept me (relatively) sane over the last few weeks. Insert whichever words that amount to an internet someone giving you the highest of praise - that’s from me. You’re the bee’s knees, and I hope that someday Miyazaki picks your brain for ideas in his next creation.
That’s too kind my friend, so pleased the content has been good and thanks for sharing that
@@SmoughTown see, this is why I find you to be a lovely human! I am not the target demographic to have stumbled on your content. I am not a gamer. I do, however, have a fascination with a *good* story. Video games are an excellent medium to tell a story, especially a multi-faceted one. You’ve made it possible for (at least more than a few) people to enjoy a work of art, who would otherwise never be able to. You take the time to show appreciation to “fans”. I’ve seen you give words of encouragement to rising content creators. You’re doing this whole Human™️ thing pretty okay, in my book. With the power to bestow internet Christmas tidings, I truly hope that you are able to live your life in whatever way brings you the most joy.
@@BlueberryBatter I am truly grateful that the algorithm found you. I am just so lucky to get all the kind support I do, and I am thankful you are here. I hope you have a magic Christmas period as well!
another amazing video! the frenzied flame has the most terrifying stories in the game - and I'll never forget the moment I entered the abyssal woods and felt its dread, although its a shame I didn't found it by myself after giving a lot of honest trying, because the path that leads to it is way too hidden, and had to watch others's playthroughs to figure it out... ( to see a tiny ladder at shadow keep and the hidden wall )
I also enjoy the significance of Melina asking you whether you think that life endures, 'There is beauty in that, is there not?'. Could you even witness the beauty if your eyes are burning with the despair of Frenzy? If you fully give in to despair you are blinded if not first by the bright yellow chaos flame's light, eventually by your eyes burning out. Giving in to Frenzy will prevent you from being able to witness the beauty of the world that remains forever.
Im so happy! This just made my whole week!(my week has been awesome though thanks to the other channel) Poor Midra, I feel he was tricked to suffer :( but this explains it soooo much better!
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!
Thanks so much Valyeria! Really pleased you enjoyed this one. Actually turned out to be one of my favorites that i've worked on
I can't remember if anyone ever brought it up but: Do you think Shabriri being blind and the fact that the Three Fingers came into contact with him, but only speaking through fingerprints is like reading braille? The lore says that you become "Blind" from the Frenzy Flame by your eyes melting, and the fact that the Three Fingers don't have a "mouth piece" to speak with, they do so with fingerprints, leaving indents of their "words" behind, so, I'd like to think that's how the blind followers "hear" the words of the Three Fingers: They read them like braille.
Again, this likely has already been brought up before, I can't remember if it has or not, but I was rewatching Elden Ring lore stuff and just kinda thought about it.
OMG JUST WHEN I MADE A FRENZIED FLAME VIDEO. I'm diving into this video so bad.
Hope you enjoy!
One correction to this video is that the guidebook for Shadow of the Erdtree describes the Aging Untouchables as eldritch beings other than that good video Smough and have a good day
Ohh interesting - I didn’t know that!
Is it the same in Japanese tho?
It might be a localization thing
The guidebook isn’t written by Fromsoft though and they’ve gotten lore wrong before
@@noamias4897 fair point
@@thewretch4081 I’m not sure
Was about to go mad if I had to wait another day for a new Smough video
Sorry for the wait! I hope you enjoy!
it's a difficult argument to make that the untouchables were created my midra when the description of their talisman is spoken by nanaya.
One thing I absolutely love about Midra is that he confirms something hinted at in the base game if we become the Lord of Frenzied Flame. Which is that once you no longer resist the frenzy doesn’t violently take control. Rather when you embrace it there’s a sort of levity.
Which would seem to suggest insanity is only painful when you resist it.
YOUR TIMING I just came back from my snack run we have a snow storm this is PERFECT thank you sir smough 👌🏾
Posted during my lunch break?? May SmoughTown take my like! 👍 ❤️
Hahah! Hope you had a good lunch break!
MAY SMOUGHTOWN TAKE THE LIKES 👏
You're my favourite youtuber, your videos always brighten my day. Never lose that passion you've got for these games❤
Much appreciated. So pleased you enjoy the content!
Rats may not feel despair, but apparently they can feel regret. May CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD
Ah man I’ve been waiting for this one. May chaos take the world.
The outer god of Verdigris is likely the god of rot. Rust is in a way the rot of metal.
Creepy lore gets me in the mood for the holidays
I simply love that despite how hidden the route of chaos is, once you find it you are suddenly overwhelmed by all this crazy lore, which completely restructures our worldview of elden ring
You always deliver the finest gems of lore videos man!
Isn’t it implied in one of the lore pieces that Midra touched one of the aging untouchables and that’s how he acquired the flame?
There’s a diary note in his library that describes an encounter with an Aging Untouchable, and it also provides gameplay insights into how to defeat them.
As to who wrote the diary page? It’s difficult to know. Because depending on your answer, the entire lore of the region gets recontextualised. Personally, I think it was one of Midra’s men who wrote the page, who also met one of those creatures, not midra himself
@@HeevaEgo Seems like I just assumed it because it made enough sense to me during my playthrough
@@HeevaEgoprobably the nice butler who greets us upon entering the hall. Being a servant he woudnt have been inquisited but would have still been close enough to the goings ons to know what was what.
Happy holidays Smough! and may Chaos take the world!!
Happy holidays to you too!
My personal theory on three fingers is that there are a failed upgraded version of the two fingers that found the wrong outer god
May chaos take the world 🔥 _ 🔥
I don't think Metyr birthed the three fingers for no other reason than that they have a thumb.
I’ve been looking forwards to this video for a while, being able to watch a video on one of my favourite gaming bosses of all time, while looking at the cosmic horror aspects of the Frenzied Flame
When battling Mini Midra watching the cutscene it immediately popped into my head the idea that he was becoming the Lord of Frenzied Flame, and then the amazingly discordant music that plays truly made my jaw drop
You always drop content right as I'm sitting down to eat and I love you for it.
I think this is the first time I've heard you voice a ghost, lol. I thought not doing so was a deliberate choice.
Thank you so much for this video! May Chaos take the world! ❤
My pleasure! Hope you enjoyed the video
Still wish we got Midra's cloak as wearable armor 😢
My last playthrough was a frenzied flame build, was the most fun I’ve had by far. It was always so funny just walking straight into enemies or invaders and if their poise was low enough, them just getting stunlocked until their meter was full and I get a free heavy R2 with Vyke’s.
What a treat of a video. Can't wait to dig in!
You know what I think would make for an AMAZING Smough video?!
Something like “The Many Flames of the Lands Between”!
There are soooo many!!
Frenzied Flame, Ghost Flame, Blood Flame, Fires of Slumber, Takers Flame (Blasphemous), Death Flame (or Death Blight Flame?), Omen Flame, Holy Flame, Flame of Ruin, Messmer Flame, Flame of Rot …
I think I’m missing like 12 more lol.
This would be epic!!
It’s 4:30am on Christmas morning and I’m running on no sleep and hours and hours of ST ER lore vids! Forgive me for rambling!! 😏
On the fingers, one other thing I noticed is that both two and three are prime numbers. Two can divide any even number, while three can only divide some odd numbers. The most interesting point related to the topics in the video: primes can only be divided by one and themselves, but two is a stronger means of division among other numbers than three, and two is the only even prime.
Thank you for the in depth work of one of my favorite characters from the DLC
Rats can definitely feel sad. Not sure about despair, but they are social and thus have some degree of emotions.
Perfect. A new video to fall asleep to. Good night!
Thanks very much! Sleep well!
This is it. This is the singlemost video I have been been WAITING for the moment I saw that awful forest with an orange hue.
I've been fascinated with the Frenzied Flame the moment I wandered into the village in the weeping penninsula. I'm so excited for this video.
You could say that Nanaya's edict to "endure" helped Midra to "ripen" into a suitable vessel for the Flame of Frenzy.
this was a banger video.
Thanks my friend, I really enjoyed making this one
Im so happy someone else noticed how Midra's movements were puppet like. Ive seen another interpretation that he danced with the sword embracing the destruction. But I prefer the idea that his autonomy was completely removed when embracing the flame
@SmoughTown
I know its not a 1 to 1 correlation in the shapes/pattern, but maybe the 3 fingers did grab Midra - and maybe there is a twist, and that grab is how the 3 FINGERS came to have fingerprint whorls imprinted upon it. Meaning, if the grabbing occurred after Midra got spiked with the great sword of damnation through the head, that unwound and branching spike inside his body might've left the resulting imprints on the 3 fingers. This sequence would also explain why Midra didn't immediately become a lord of frenzied flame - the spike acted as a ward to the 3 fingers influance, Midra only succumbing to the flame after he pulled the sword from his body. The whole process meant to strengthen the enduring flame inside the "vessel" of Midra.
The King in Yelough
Ah, may chaos take the world...
*MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD*
I've only just noticed with how the enlargement of the icon for Shabriri's woe that it looks oddly close to Verdigris... no idea what that brings to the table or to the timeline if anything at all but it really does ponder the question how exactly old is Shabriri?
What if Nanaya called upon the inquisition, knowing what was to come? she seemed to be isolated in a secure location, as if she knows whats coming and locked herself away.
always thought midra was the most interesting character in the dlc so im glad to get a lore vid on him!
One thought I had was "what could cause a two-finger to fall to Frenzy?" The only thing I could come up with is the realization that the Greater Will had abandoned them
Loved finding Midra, and he absolutely feels like a god puppeting a body during the fight.
Personally I believe Nanaya's Torch is composed of two parts - the first being the Flame of Frenzy, which after this video I think Nanaya kept with her and nursed the flame so it wouldn't die out (as in, she had the flame prior to arriving at the Manse). The second part is the small spinal column, which I think is the child of Nanaya and Midra that did not survive - likely even being killed by the inquisition and driving Midra to commit to becoming the lord before being impaled.
My favorite character from Shadow of the Erdtree. He suffers in interesting ways. He never meant chaos, but in learning you find that order and chaos are just two brothers with a mean streak against each other within a circle. Ying and yang if that helps. Reminds me too much of myself. Midra is very human and sorta reminds me of High Lord Wolnir. Midra did want this for his life, craved discovery. Wolnir was similar in the case of being in a similar situation, not exactly undeath. Definitely fear and pain. One wanted to live, the other acted like a gate keeper. But fear in the end and loss lead to these beings becoming damned within circumstance.
Midra was one of my favorite bosses from the dlc. Like holy shit he's so cool. The whole area was so dope and fun. I was sad when I finished the area
Honestly loved this storyline and ending
I’m always happy to get a smough video i save them up on my train rides in nyc great accompany pieces