Do you think Myter birthed the three fingers? Maybe it was an act of retaliation or just a product of her wound? Did Myter call to the other outer gods when the greater will stopped communications? It’s just such an interesting area to speculate
If Shabriri accused the Merchants of being disciples of the Frenzied Flame, and it wasn't true, then that would make it "slander". I think that the Golden Order eventually figured out that Shabriri had lied, but by that time the merchants actually had been overtaken by Frenzy, because they'd been locked in a pit with the 3-Fingers. So the merchants were just left where they were, and Shabriri was punished as the one "responsible" for the mistake.
Also there is evidence that the merchants are protected from the sentencing of Elemor, so the imprisonment could have been done even earliar before the erdtree.
worth note that the “as above so below” hand gesture baphomet is so frequently represented with depicts one hand with two fingers extended upward, and the other with three pointed downward. not sure whether that really offers any lore implications though still a fun potential inspiration for elden ring’s representations of order and disorder
The difference between the stability of 2 or 3 things is a big topic in astrophysics with a formal name: the N-body problem. At n=2, orbits are stable and can spiral through the cosmos for a long time (Two-body problem) At n=3, orbits are chaotic and unpredictable (Three-body problem) -- Miriel knows this. The union of the house of the Moon and the house of the Erdtree was supposed to be a stable n=2 solution to war. But when it's known that Marika is Radagon, 2 is revealed to be 3, and since Marika is already in a stable configuration of 2 with Godfrey, we're at 4 and stability is entirely out of the door. They're two sets of Two-bodies flinging each other out of stable configurations. I think that might be why the Golden Order's sacred geometry imagery has 3 rings in a triangle, Radagon was trying to stabilize an n=3 solution in his renaissance-man phase, which we know to be mathematically impossible.
Don't think Miyazaki was inspired by a quazi-intellectual book that rewrites history and portrays itself as "a smart book for academics" but sacrifices the basics for a good story essentially turning astrophysics into Thor levels of stupidity.
The lore of Midra and the surrounding area was a huge surprise to me during my playthrough, but I absolutely loved it. Looking forward to hearing your take on the lore!
The lore was good! The actual gameplay of the Abyssal forest was rough though. It's definitely the most underbaked area of the DLC. The Mansion was good though!
Really scary to think that he could’ve removed the greatsword at any time but only held out for so long because Nanaya bade him to “endure”. Also won't be the first or last time a group of people were accused of heresy, brutally tortured, and then summon the Frenzied Flame in their despair.
What always made me scratch my head is that many in the Lands Between, including the Hornsent, know how the Frenzied Flame manifests, yet they create the perfect means or conditions for people to invoke said Flame. It's honestly a miracle that, as far as we know, not a single Numen/Shaman invoked the Flame when the Hornsent enacted their barbaric practices against the people of Shaman Village. They certainly or almost met the criteria. Although, to be fair, one must completely disregard the entire world for the Flame to truly take over, hence why Midra never gave in until we, the player, come along.
To be honest I don’t think they do know how it manifests. I think they just think it spreads like a disease, which it does, but they just treat it like one. Hence the constant persecution, killing and etc. that’s just my thoughts though.
@@pompneigh4329 Maybe Midra himself was a Numen. Manor in the painting looks with a lot of flowers and he has no horns, even if he was someone considered an intellectual before the Frenzied Flame.
@@themaniae4803 That's fair. He may not have been a Shaman, but a male Numen is absolutely a possibility, especially thanks to the character creation screen.
I don't think you realize how profound it feels to me that today, of all days, this was posted. Ever since the DLC dropped, Midras' character and story has carried deep meaning to me. Things came to a head today, I made some difficult decisions and I see this right before I go to sleep. It feels incredibly meaningful to me. Chaos and order are amazing. God is amazing. Love your videos man, thank you for making them.
I think in your previous video on the three fingers you had mentioned how the fingerprint is the word of the three fingers and thusly the three fingers are just madly repeating the same thing over and over again. I think it's also worth noting that the violin theme associated with the merchants and the frenzied Flame and now midra in his boss fight has a waltz time signature that just repeats over and over again, one two three one two three. The influence of the fingers and the flame they embody even makes its way into this lullaby, or if it is still the case that St Trina taught it to the merchants, maybe this more soothing one two three somehow manages to assuage the effects of the frenzied Flame
I hadn't noticed that before. The idea of the waltz 3/4 time signature tying in with the Three Fingers is brilliant! Also interesting with the tie to St. Trina, that the lullaby has connections with her and the Flame. Madness and sleep are both blinding, and a means of escapism for the downtrodden in the Lands Between.
Along with Hawkshaw and Vaati’s videos on Midra this is now the third long form video I watch about Midra. But your vids are always my favorite and multiple perspectives are nice to make your own theories
I feel like nanaya’s attempts to get a lord of frenzied flame was the first method and it evolved over time into the way shabriri does it now. Maybe the idea of “enduring” the pain needed to evolve into something greater to get a true lord of the flame. Hmm who knows. Great video smough! Keep it up.
It’s finals week, I just finished my second one in as many days, and then you drop this banger to help me decompress and go to sleep. This is Elden lord behavior. Thank you sir.
Amazing video. Nothing more Christmass theme than a video on a nihilist sickess that burns the eyes. If you please, i want to add something to this Majestic content. -As Italian, thanks a lot to talk about the Mirko and Sab and about the Kami-Outer God thing. -I also believe the 3 fingers are at least the phisical form of this Outer God, as mostly informations we have about the FF spells are about Fingers, Shabriri and Midra. And thinking about it, maybe Yelough (My headcanon is this is the name of this Outer God) is dead and the Fingers are all what remains of its power, a flame with no master. Also, two facts about Vyke and Yura. Japanese makes it even more clear: "...He did it for the love of her Maiden or SOMEONE whispered this idea in his mind?" He was Shabrieried! About Yura, in his Questline, before a brutal cut content, he was suppose to hear voices during the journey. And now, the big point i want to discuss: Dark and Chaos relationship. While yes, they have a connection as they are saw as the biggest danger for everyone and a dangerous power, this needs some clarifications. Chaos is a force about total destruction to bring back the world to the nothing before life, it's pure Nihilism against the concept of creation itself. Dark is very different. Yes, it can be a destructive power, but is a power censured, blocked and declared bad by Gwyn, and while Gwyn is powerful indeed, he's not at the level of the Greater Will, not even at Marika's level and she also blocked things considered bad by her. And in all Miyazaki's games, trying to block something will just unleash it with more strenght later. Human pus of Ds3 is a pretty good example of what happens to Dark after centuries of being stagnant, blocked by the Dark Sign. And i can say this because Dark was supposed to be the next age after the Age of Fire, but like Marika, Gwyn decided another way. Even because, Dark is literally from where humanity and Gods themself come from. (Fromthe Dark they came... Dark is THAT Dark, yep.) It's not a mistake the connection between Chaos and Dark, just wanted to make sure the differences, especially for the different world setting of the two games.
The Abyssal Forests are my favourite ‘individual’ part of a Fromsoft game, especially from a storytelling perspective. It really feels like Fromsoft took a portion of the Shadow Lands map and purely dedicated it to their mastery of Horror and Atmosphere, that has very little to do with the rest of the game. As such, It feels like they were able to experiment more with the Abyssal Woods compared to everywhere else, both mechanically and narratively, in how they wanted the story of an area to be conveyed. It reminds me of the many unrelated short-stories that are attached to horror books from well respected authors. Very fittingly much like ‘The King in Yellow’ from Chambers
There's a lot cool there, but honestly it would have helped if they filled it with more sites of interest or just made it smaller so people playing blind like me wouldn't waste time scouring them for nothing...
@@monsieurdorgat6864 very true😂 I personally didn’t mind that. It added to what I was talking about: that feeling of oppression, horror, emptiness… despair. Of course it isn’t the most convenient, but as a horror book fan, I was delighted with how delicately and intentionally Fromsoft handled the approach to gameplay. They could’ve made it more arcade-y and artificial by filling it out with content and convenience, but they stuck to a vision and I respect that. Of course, I understand your perspectives too
@@HeevaEgo I am also a HUGE horror nerd. I do agree there's SOME value in you wandering around and seeing it desolate, but at some point dread gives way to tedium if it overstays its welcome. Like, take Five Nights at Freddies (the o.g.'s, anyway) - a game that's kinda scary for 10 minutes and then frustrating for 3 hours because lackluster gameplay becomes the focus and breaks your immersion.
I think a really interesting piece of lore no one talks about in regards to Frenzy is the presence they showcase in the Consecrated Snowfields. Here you find a number of large trolls with frenzied eyes, similar to the one that is clearly guarding Volcano Manor. You also see frenzied human guards around these trolls, in a suprisingly "orderly" guarding configuration. It really gives the idea that there are multiple tiers of agency the Frenzied Flame operates on. That a contingency was being set so if the Haligtree was successful they could attempt to spread frenzy to Miquella's new empire. I think this makes a good parallel to your idea of the aging untouchables harvesting grapes for a purpose. Great video Smough!!
*Me on my exam finals week*: Panic *SmoughTown drops a lore video*: Calm SmoughTown, if you see this, I want to say I rlly appreciate your lore vidoes, Midra personally is my favorite character in Elden Ring.
the "Endure" motif always makes me think of the circle of zerthimon where the nameless one created it and crafted the lessons in order to gain dak'kon's blade and trap him in service. i don't know if its intentional but but i love the connection
should mention that the boss room is known as the Discussion Chamber, did he discuss with the three fingers? or did the whole house discuss with the three fingers?. A side note, does putting the material on the beheaded figures stop the grapes from growing/stop them turning into untouchables?
I agree with all of your findings except, personally, I interpreted the manse and all of its inhabitants as unknowing victims of the frenzy flame. That this story of the manse was to highlight the inevitability of the frenzy, similar to the slow crawl of godwyn's deathblight, and not like the deliberate, sinister agenda of shabriri in the lands between. that the presence of frenzy at the manse was a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts - that perhaps it was truly an academic endeavor to understand this frenzy flame, then an honest effort by the hornsent to stop the study before it got out of control and everyone involved unknowingly furthered the frenzy flame's influence. the tortured soul recounting his plea didnt seem to know why the inquisitors were persecuting the people of the manse, to me it seems like at that point, the frenzy hadn't made itself known (the 'unjust' slaughter laying the foundation for the frenzy). I saw nanaya's "endure" as genuine, but unfortunately, midra's enduring slowly primed him as a candidate for the frenzy (floodgates, as you said). the spinal column nanaya cradles their newborn child, who perhaps fell victim to the frenzy hungry and alone in his dead mother's arms and not some sick trophy from nanaya's previous frenzy victim. (why would shabriri not possess her body to speak to us in this moment? to me, the devs wanted a separation in motive from nanaya and shabriri). the aging untouchables, academics of the manse who escaped death alongside their peers, but witnesses to cruelty becoming, again, unknowing prime subjects for the frenzy to inhabit before losing themselves over time and becoming the monsters we seem them as today. to me, it seems redundant from a story/ dev perspective to introduce the manse and have the underlying mechanics/ plot be the exact same of the lands between : shabriri/nanaya acting as a villainous persona for the frenzy flame to manipulate the world. rather, I think they added the manse to add depth to the way the outer gods manifest their influence, that chaos can be born naturally the way rot and decay occur naturally.
Unsure if midra and Nanaya created the Ageing untouchables, from Midra’s diary entry he seems utterly terrified of it. Doesn’t line up. I think one came to the abyssal woods, maybe even with nanaya? And it started from there, she encouraged him or organised that first contact. Also if the ageing untouchables were such a vanguard why didn’t they stop the inquisitors? No I think nanaya brought one and the misery that the inquisition brought created more, maybe even the executed outside have something to do with it. Love the observation about midra moving like a puppet 🤌🏽 😃
You truly are a treasure. Your content is one of the few things that have kept me (relatively) sane over the last few weeks. Insert whichever words that amount to an internet someone giving you the highest of praise - that’s from me. You’re the bee’s knees, and I hope that someday Miyazaki picks your brain for ideas in his next creation.
@@SmoughTown see, this is why I find you to be a lovely human! I am not the target demographic to have stumbled on your content. I am not a gamer. I do, however, have a fascination with a *good* story. Video games are an excellent medium to tell a story, especially a multi-faceted one. You’ve made it possible for (at least more than a few) people to enjoy a work of art, who would otherwise never be able to. You take the time to show appreciation to “fans”. I’ve seen you give words of encouragement to rising content creators. You’re doing this whole Human™️ thing pretty okay, in my book. With the power to bestow internet Christmas tidings, I truly hope that you are able to live your life in whatever way brings you the most joy.
@@BlueberryBatter I am truly grateful that the algorithm found you. I am just so lucky to get all the kind support I do, and I am thankful you are here. I hope you have a magic Christmas period as well!
“Have you seen the yellow sign?” The Yellow Sign is a fictional symbol or glyph, first described in Robert W. Chambers' book The King In Yellow. Its nature is unknown, but it seems to possess a strange siren call to the dark world of the King in Yellow and Carcosa, such that those who are exposed to it are doomed. this immediately came to mind for me when I first encountered The Frenzied Flame. There are some parallels to yet another lovecraftian theme.
another amazing video! the frenzied flame has the most terrifying stories in the game - and I'll never forget the moment I entered the abyssal woods and felt its dread, although its a shame I didn't found it by myself after giving a lot of honest trying, because the path that leads to it is way too hidden, and had to watch others's playthroughs to figure it out... ( to see a tiny ladder at shadow keep and the hidden wall )
Im so happy! This just made my whole week!(my week has been awesome though thanks to the other channel) Poor Midra, I feel he was tricked to suffer :( but this explains it soooo much better! MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!
One correction to this video is that the guidebook for Shadow of the Erdtree describes the Aging Untouchables as eldritch beings other than that good video Smough and have a good day
There’s a diary note in his library that describes an encounter with an Aging Untouchable, and it also provides gameplay insights into how to defeat them. As to who wrote the diary page? It’s difficult to know. Because depending on your answer, the entire lore of the region gets recontextualised. Personally, I think it was one of Midra’s men who wrote the page, who also met one of those creatures, not midra himself
Always amazing videos from you! I actually changed some of my opinions on the nature of some things based on this video's analysis! I really think a more appropriate analysis of the Fingers are as these alien but still living and fallible characters - with strange personalities of their own. The Two Fingers are capable of hubris and lies, and the Three Fingers really does seem like the black sheep of the bunch. Maybe the best interpretation is: what do Fingers do if they despair, as people do? Outer Gods are always discovered by those looking for answers - and perhaps the Three Fingers discovered Frenzy much like how Mohg and the Bloodfiends discovered the Formless Mother. I'm honestly of the opinion that the Frenzied Flame represents the true Greater Will, which has soured at creation. The Two Fingers and even Metyr no longer receive messages from the Greater Will, yet the Three Fingers (who, thanks to you, I definitely believe was the "aberrant child" of Metyr) speak for a truly active cosmic power. However, it's one that no one wants to hear. And I think that's sort of what the Frenzied Flame represents - truths so ugly and so deeply baked into the fabric of the world that you must either live a comfortable lie (your vision obscured and tinted by gold, sort of "rose/gold-tinted lenses) or go mad with the horrific truth that god/Greater Will is not simply dead or dormant, but it hates its creation and wants to undo it all. It really harkens back to Demon's Souls and the Old One. They say the eyes are windows into the human soul, and i think this is very true in Elden Ring. I think it's worth understanding that it's the Golden Order society that considers the Flame of Frenzy a disease, but it's likely that the madness being inflicted upon you when someone stares at you with frenzied eyes is also a matter of empathy, much like looking into someone's eyes IRL is a sign or method of empathizing. Looking into the eyes of the Frenzied makes you share in their feelings - in this case, desperation, horror, and apocalyptic despair. Calling it a "disease" is a way of explaining away that empathy and dehumanizing those who are "afflicted" by feelings of despair. The physical flame is the associated action of melting everything away - the only way to undo the original sin that cannot be fixed any other way. The fact that rats can be afflicted might actually imply that animals in the ER universe also have emotions, and rats are the most susceptible to feelings of despair. After all, how else would goats carry Frenzy, since they don't eat corpses? Midra then is such an interesting character in this. It really seems he was introduced to this philosophy and subject by Nanaya, but he only wanted to research it. He thus conducted all these terrible experiments, but the fact he never wanted to release frenzy shows that he was really only interested in studying it, until the very end. Of course, it is always the forces of Order that cause the release and proliferation of Chaos, by their own paranoia and violent overreach.
I simply love that despite how hidden the route of chaos is, once you find it you are suddenly overwhelmed by all this crazy lore, which completely restructures our worldview of elden ring You always deliver the finest gems of lore videos man!
This is it. This is the singlemost video I have been been WAITING for the moment I saw that awful forest with an orange hue. I've been fascinated with the Frenzied Flame the moment I wandered into the village in the weeping penninsula. I'm so excited for this video.
I also enjoy the significance of Melina asking you whether you think that life endures, 'There is beauty in that, is there not?'. Could you even witness the beauty if your eyes are burning with the despair of Frenzy? If you fully give in to despair you are blinded if not first by the bright yellow chaos flame's light, eventually by your eyes burning out. Giving in to Frenzy will prevent you from being able to witness the beauty of the world that remains forever.
I've had this idea for awhile and I think there's ample evidence of it now, that the 3 fingers are marikas original fingers. Marika and her order are referenced multiple times as twisted and sick from the start. What better way to dispel order than by usurping it and then destroying the very thing that governs order, the elden ring itself. The 3 fingers proximity to Marika and her capital, the fact that Marika has gone to great lengths to conceal her past, the fact that all emperyeans are assigned fingers all corroborate this theory.
One thing I absolutely love about Midra is that he confirms something hinted at in the base game if we become the Lord of Frenzied Flame. Which is that once you no longer resist the frenzy doesn’t violently take control. Rather when you embrace it there’s a sort of levity.
I’ve been looking forwards to this video for a while, being able to watch a video on one of my favourite gaming bosses of all time, while looking at the cosmic horror aspects of the Frenzied Flame When battling Mini Midra watching the cutscene it immediately popped into my head the idea that he was becoming the Lord of Frenzied Flame, and then the amazingly discordant music that plays truly made my jaw drop
My favorite character from Shadow of the Erdtree. He suffers in interesting ways. He never meant chaos, but in learning you find that order and chaos are just two brothers with a mean streak against each other within a circle. Ying and yang if that helps. Reminds me too much of myself. Midra is very human and sorta reminds me of High Lord Wolnir. Midra did want this for his life, craved discovery. Wolnir was similar in the case of being in a similar situation, not exactly undeath. Definitely fear and pain. One wanted to live, the other acted like a gate keeper. But fear in the end and loss lead to these beings becoming damned within circumstance.
Im so happy someone else noticed how Midra's movements were puppet like. Ive seen another interpretation that he danced with the sword embracing the destruction. But I prefer the idea that his autonomy was completely removed when embracing the flame
Loved finding Midra, and he absolutely feels like a god puppeting a body during the fight. Personally I believe Nanaya's Torch is composed of two parts - the first being the Flame of Frenzy, which after this video I think Nanaya kept with her and nursed the flame so it wouldn't die out (as in, she had the flame prior to arriving at the Manse). The second part is the small spinal column, which I think is the child of Nanaya and Midra that did not survive - likely even being killed by the inquisition and driving Midra to commit to becoming the lord before being impaled.
My last playthrough was a frenzied flame build, was the most fun I’ve had by far. It was always so funny just walking straight into enemies or invaders and if their poise was low enough, them just getting stunlocked until their meter was full and I get a free heavy R2 with Vyke’s.
Honestly I was expecting the headcanon at the finale: Nanaya was Shabriri all along. Think about that: there's an entity, first and most important prophet of the Frenzied Flame (Yelough Anix?) and the Three Fingers, who can possess corpses and live through ages (we know for sure he had contact with Vike and tried to manipulate him). And then there's that painting, where Nanaya has her eyes covered and a little smirk on her mouth, just like the talisman of Shabriri.
Also like how the two fingers are uniform and perfectly symmetrical while the three fingers don't have a single finger the length width or angle of another, more chaotic some may say
57:05 "There is something of the Golden Order in the sight of those fixed upon this crux." I like to think of this quite literally. The imagery of the golden thorns growing inside of Midra reminds me of how the Elden Ring lays inside Radagon/Marika. To relate it to what St. Trina says about Miquella "Godhood is a prison" Maybe in order to become a god, or a Lord of Frenzy, one only need to suffer forever. Maybe Marika shattering the Elden Ring was an attempt to escape this self-imposed prison, once she realized that godhood wasn't really what she wanted. It makes sense thematically that the lord of chaos and lord of order go through similar processes to become the surrogate for their respective deity. Midra is definitely my favorite part of the DLC. Thank you for your videos Smough!
What if Nanaya called upon the inquisition, knowing what was to come? she seemed to be isolated in a secure location, as if she knows whats coming and locked herself away.
One thought I had was "what could cause a two-finger to fall to Frenzy?" The only thing I could come up with is the realization that the Greater Will had abandoned them
I believe some ideas in Midra’s story is inspired by a manga called Fire Punch. Specifically the “endure” curse and the transformation after that is shockingly familiar with Fire Punch, and given Miazaki’s love of Berserk it’s not like gaining inspiration from a manga would be out of the ordinary. Just a cool little detail, it’s like a little wink to the nerds if you want to take it that way.
I like the idea that Vaati mentioned that Nanaya was possessed by Shabriri, given she has the same smile in the picture. Personally, I believe she somehow knew the person whose spine is in the torch when they were taken by frenzy, and in her despair Shabriri took her over and led her to the lands between to find a new host. Once Midra was set up to "endure" forever, Shabriri left Nanaya's body to further spread chaos and in her last moments she cradled the last remains of her former lover/child/etc. She could also just be a maiden of the 3 fingers and the smile is just a symbolic link
He did meet with the fingers. If there are fingerprints, that means the fingers were present. Midra definitely communed with the fingers. Also, there is a note about touching an aging untouchable in the Manse. I believe the untouchables came before Midra.
I had an idea about the untouchables. Maybe how they were made was with people being forced to ingest grapes, hundreds maybe thousands. The grapes concentrate the flame when eaten so eating so many may draw a fragment of the flame. Doing this though tainted the land around the person who was then used to commune with the fingers as a medium. Therefore the beheaded were turning into untouchables but were dealt with, a crystal shoved down their neck to seal the grapes in..
It is interesting that the words of the 3 fingers can be heard by Hyetta almost instantly but the words of the Greater Will will take years or hundreds of years for the two fingers at the round table to hear from
I had been waiting to share my thoughts on the Three Fingers and the Frenzied Flame after your Metyr video, so I will do so now! What if the Three Fingers were birthed with the purpose to reach far beyond its Two Fingered siblings? And, maybe, while trying to find and reach The One Great in the empty vastness of the cosmos, they found something else? Something so unfathomably chaotic, it destroyed its mind and purpose, and took its body? Thank you for making this video, Mr Smough! Midra and Nanaya deeply mystified me ever since I heard of them, and I'm happy my favourite lore hunter tackled their lore!! Cheers from Mexico!🎉
I always thought theorists were a little too generous taking Hyetta at her word. If Shabriri is anything to go off of, the Fingers and their agents are perfectly willing to twist the truth and whisper whatever sweet lies it needs to to make sure their plans go through. That being said tho, AMAZING video as always!!!
I'm getting the feeling that the 3 fingers were deformed or wounded like you said. When it was placed in the tomb, l imagine it began reaching out for anything. No mother, no siblings, no contact. All alone in the bottom of a deep dark pit, screaming. It doesn't surprise me that it came around to frenzy
I think it's interesting to measure the time that it takes to become a lord or chaos depending on method. We became a lord very soon after being touched by the three fingers, earliest possible point that makes sense within story would be our meeting with Shabriri. This is at the very start of the endgame bosses starting with fire giant and ending with elden beast, even if that took some time in universe it doesn't even compare to Midras long suffering. I feel like the chaos flame could have taken over our bodies at any point after we met with the three fingers, but it decided to wait and grow stronger within us until we were at the center of the erdtree. Miquellas needle can't be used unless you are outside of time essentially, and I have a feeling that if the needle was used anywhere else, the same thing would happen to us as did to vyke, an incomplete transformation into a lord of chaos that loses their individuality and becomes a broken husk. I feel like Midras transformation didn't occur until Jori was defeated and someone from the outside world stepped into the manse, making the chaos see the opportunity to leave the abyssal woods.
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They also had a Monster Hunter line for Rise, didn't they? I think it was them.
This has been such a huge year for you. Congrats, dude.
Am I bugging? I don't see a lumenwood product on their site
Do you think Myter birthed the three fingers? Maybe it was an act of retaliation or just a product of her wound? Did Myter call to the other outer gods when the greater will stopped communications? It’s just such an interesting area to speculate
Lol, nvm. You do touch on these ideas
Interesting that the Frenzied Flame afflicts the “Cuckoo” knights.
The knights have clearly, uh, gone cuckoo.
I'm entering you in a contest for pun of the year! Good work, fellow "true" student, of life.
If Shabriri accused the Merchants of being disciples of the Frenzied Flame, and it wasn't true, then that would make it "slander". I think that the Golden Order eventually figured out that Shabriri had lied, but by that time the merchants actually had been overtaken by Frenzy, because they'd been locked in a pit with the 3-Fingers. So the merchants were just left where they were, and Shabriri was punished as the one "responsible" for the mistake.
Also there is evidence that the merchants are protected from the sentencing of Elemor, so the imprisonment could have been done even earliar before the erdtree.
@@Theanimeisforme please expand
The timeline doesn't match up. Shabriri is older than Marika's reign by quite a while, the merchants were imprisoned during her reign.
It’s pretty chilly today, maybe burning the world in infernal fire isn’t such a bad thing.
agreed
Infernal fire makes me wish for a nuclear winter. *lights cigarette*
to be fair thats just a nuclear apocalypse and at this point im just waiting for someone to push the button
worth note that the “as above so below” hand gesture baphomet is so frequently represented with depicts one hand with two fingers extended upward, and the other with three pointed downward. not sure whether that really offers any lore implications though still a fun potential inspiration for elden ring’s representations of order and disorder
no way hi sunny
@@xanathar8659 lmao hi xan
The difference between the stability of 2 or 3 things is a big topic in astrophysics with a formal name: the N-body problem.
At n=2, orbits are stable and can spiral through the cosmos for a long time (Two-body problem)
At n=3, orbits are chaotic and unpredictable (Three-body problem)
--
Miriel knows this. The union of the house of the Moon and the house of the Erdtree was supposed to be a stable n=2 solution to war. But when it's known that Marika is Radagon, 2 is revealed to be 3, and since Marika is already in a stable configuration of 2 with Godfrey, we're at 4 and stability is entirely out of the door. They're two sets of Two-bodies flinging each other out of stable configurations.
I think that might be why the Golden Order's sacred geometry imagery has 3 rings in a triangle, Radagon was trying to stabilize an n=3 solution in his renaissance-man phase, which we know to be mathematically impossible.
Nice observation
Fantastic points being made here
Don't think Miyazaki was inspired by a quazi-intellectual book that rewrites history and portrays itself as "a smart book for academics" but sacrifices the basics for a good story essentially turning astrophysics into Thor levels of stupidity.
@@kaingates I'm not referring to the novel, but the very real physics concept it was named after.
THE DEPTHS OF YOUR FOOLISHNESS!
The lore of Midra and the surrounding area was a huge surprise to me during my playthrough, but I absolutely loved it.
Looking forward to hearing your take on the lore!
Same Ross, I really enjoyed it. Hope you enjoy my take!
The lore was good! The actual gameplay of the Abyssal forest was rough though. It's definitely the most underbaked area of the DLC. The Mansion was good though!
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD
THE DEPTHS OF YOUR FOOLISHNESS!!!
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!!!!
AHHHH MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD…… MAY CHASO TAKE THE WORLD!🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Really scary to think that he could’ve removed the greatsword at any time but only held out for so long because Nanaya bade him to “endure”.
Also won't be the first or last time a group of people were accused of heresy, brutally tortured, and then summon the Frenzied Flame in their despair.
What always made me scratch my head is that many in the Lands Between, including the Hornsent, know how the Frenzied Flame manifests, yet they create the perfect means or conditions for people to invoke said Flame.
It's honestly a miracle that, as far as we know, not a single Numen/Shaman invoked the Flame when the Hornsent enacted their barbaric practices against the people of Shaman Village. They certainly or almost met the criteria. Although, to be fair, one must completely disregard the entire world for the Flame to truly take over, hence why Midra never gave in until we, the player, come along.
To be honest I don’t think they do know how it manifests. I think they just think it spreads like a disease, which it does, but they just treat it like one. Hence the constant persecution, killing and etc. that’s just my thoughts though.
@@pompneigh4329 Maybe Midra himself was a Numen. Manor in the painting looks with a lot of flowers and he has no horns, even if he was someone considered an intellectual before the Frenzied Flame.
@@themaniae4803 That's fair. He may not have been a Shaman, but a male Numen is absolutely a possibility, especially thanks to the character creation screen.
@@DinosaurBoy04 That's fair, too. It makes it a self-fulfilling inevitability.
Thank you for making this video. Midra is an interesting character and trying to figure out his story was so intriguing.
My pleasure, was a great one to work on
I don't think you realize how profound it feels to me that today, of all days, this was posted. Ever since the DLC dropped, Midras' character and story has carried deep meaning to me. Things came to a head today, I made some difficult decisions and I see this right before I go to sleep. It feels incredibly meaningful to me. Chaos and order are amazing. God is amazing. Love your videos man, thank you for making them.
My pleasure and so pleased you found the video meaningful
I originally believed the three fingers and the two fingers to have a Darkstalker Kaathe and Kingseeker Frampt dynamic between them.
I think in your previous video on the three fingers you had mentioned how the fingerprint is the word of the three fingers and thusly the three fingers are just madly repeating the same thing over and over again. I think it's also worth noting that the violin theme associated with the merchants and the frenzied Flame and now midra in his boss fight has a waltz time signature that just repeats over and over again, one two three one two three. The influence of the fingers and the flame they embody even makes its way into this lullaby, or if it is still the case that St Trina taught it to the merchants, maybe this more soothing one two three somehow manages to assuage the effects of the frenzied Flame
Reminds me of the music box from Bloodborne. Very simple tune meant to soothe those in suffering
I hadn't noticed that before. The idea of the waltz 3/4 time signature tying in with the Three Fingers is brilliant!
Also interesting with the tie to St. Trina, that the lullaby has connections with her and the Flame. Madness and sleep are both blinding, and a means of escapism for the downtrodden in the Lands Between.
Along with Hawkshaw and Vaati’s videos on Midra this is now the third long form video I watch about Midra. But your vids are always my favorite and multiple perspectives are nice to make your own theories
Thanks my friend ❤️really appreciate that
I feel like nanaya’s attempts to get a lord of frenzied flame was the first method and it evolved over time into the way shabriri does it now. Maybe the idea of “enduring” the pain needed to evolve into something greater to get a true lord of the flame. Hmm who knows.
Great video smough! Keep it up.
It’s finals week, I just finished my second one in as many days, and then you drop this banger to help me decompress and go to sleep. This is Elden lord behavior. Thank you sir.
Midra? More like Peakra.
so true
Boo. Also good job
Midra's Manse is one of my favorite Fromsoft areas. The buildup in the Abyssal Woods was masterful storytelling. May CHAOS...take the world!
Amazing video. Nothing more Christmass theme than a video on a nihilist sickess that burns the eyes.
If you please, i want to add something to this Majestic content.
-As Italian, thanks a lot to talk about the Mirko and Sab and about the Kami-Outer God thing.
-I also believe the 3 fingers are at least the phisical form of this Outer God, as mostly informations we have about the FF spells are about Fingers, Shabriri and Midra. And thinking about it, maybe Yelough (My headcanon is this is the name of this Outer God) is dead and the Fingers are all what remains of its power, a flame with no master.
Also, two facts about Vyke and Yura.
Japanese makes it even more clear: "...He did it for the love of her Maiden or SOMEONE whispered this idea in his mind?" He was Shabrieried!
About Yura, in his Questline, before a brutal cut content, he was suppose to hear voices during the journey.
And now, the big point i want to discuss: Dark and Chaos relationship. While yes, they have a connection as they are saw as the biggest danger for everyone and a dangerous power, this needs some clarifications. Chaos is a force about total destruction to bring back the world to the nothing before life, it's pure Nihilism against the concept of creation itself.
Dark is very different. Yes, it can be a destructive power, but is a power censured, blocked and declared bad by Gwyn, and while Gwyn is powerful indeed, he's not at the level of the Greater Will, not even at Marika's level and she also blocked things considered bad by her. And in all Miyazaki's games, trying to block something will just unleash it with more strenght later. Human pus of Ds3 is a pretty good example of what happens to Dark after centuries of being stagnant, blocked by the Dark Sign.
And i can say this because Dark was supposed to be the next age after the Age of Fire, but like Marika, Gwyn decided another way. Even because, Dark is literally from where humanity and Gods themself come from. (Fromthe Dark they came... Dark is THAT Dark, yep.)
It's not a mistake the connection between Chaos and Dark, just wanted to make sure the differences, especially for the different world setting of the two games.
The Abyssal Forests are my favourite ‘individual’ part of a Fromsoft game, especially from a storytelling perspective. It really feels like Fromsoft took a portion of the Shadow Lands map and purely dedicated it to their mastery of Horror and Atmosphere, that has very little to do with the rest of the game. As such, It feels like they were able to experiment more with the Abyssal Woods compared to everywhere else, both mechanically and narratively, in how they wanted the story of an area to be conveyed.
It reminds me of the many unrelated short-stories that are attached to horror books from well respected authors. Very fittingly much like ‘The King in Yellow’ from Chambers
There's a lot cool there, but honestly it would have helped if they filled it with more sites of interest or just made it smaller so people playing blind like me wouldn't waste time scouring them for nothing...
@@monsieurdorgat6864 very true😂 I personally didn’t mind that. It added to what I was talking about: that feeling of oppression, horror, emptiness… despair. Of course it isn’t the most convenient, but as a horror book fan, I was delighted with how delicately and intentionally Fromsoft handled the approach to gameplay. They could’ve made it more arcade-y and artificial by filling it out with content and convenience, but they stuck to a vision and I respect that.
Of course, I understand your perspectives too
@@HeevaEgo I am also a HUGE horror nerd. I do agree there's SOME value in you wandering around and seeing it desolate, but at some point dread gives way to tedium if it overstays its welcome.
Like, take Five Nights at Freddies (the o.g.'s, anyway) - a game that's kinda scary for 10 minutes and then frustrating for 3 hours because lackluster gameplay becomes the focus and breaks your immersion.
Nobody:
My brother with his frenzied flame build: AHHHHH!!!!! SWEET BEAUTEOUS CHAOS!!!!!!!
I think a really interesting piece of lore no one talks about in regards to Frenzy is the presence they showcase in the Consecrated Snowfields. Here you find a number of large trolls with frenzied eyes, similar to the one that is clearly guarding Volcano Manor. You also see frenzied human guards around these trolls, in a suprisingly "orderly" guarding configuration. It really gives the idea that there are multiple tiers of agency the Frenzied Flame operates on. That a contingency was being set so if the Haligtree was successful they could attempt to spread frenzy to Miquella's new empire. I think this makes a good parallel to your idea of the aging untouchables harvesting grapes for a purpose. Great video Smough!!
*Me on my exam finals week*: Panic
*SmoughTown drops a lore video*: Calm
SmoughTown, if you see this, I want to say I rlly appreciate your lore vidoes, Midra personally is my favorite character in Elden Ring.
Thanks my friend, it really does mean the world to hear that. Midra is one of my faves as well!
Good luck with your finals!
More peak from the best souls lore guy, really loved your work on the ptumerian (however you spell it) tombs in bloodborne got me into the channel!
Thanks my friend and so awesome to hear that the Pthumerian one brought you here! Really love that video tbh
the "Endure" motif always makes me think of the circle of zerthimon where the nameless one created it and crafted the lessons in order to gain dak'kon's blade and trap him in service. i don't know if its intentional but but i love the connection
Check out 19:51. Metyr has 4 fingers in each hand but it looks like each hand is made of 2 arms in a spiral ending in only 2 fingers each.
It's amazing how you cooked so much lore for such a mysterious character. I love his tragic backstory
YESSSSS. Smough is amazing. Keep up the good work, I'll watch whatever you come up with
Really appreciate that my friend! Thanks for being here
should mention that the boss room is known as the Discussion Chamber, did he discuss with the three fingers? or did the whole house discuss with the three fingers?. A side note, does putting the material on the beheaded figures stop the grapes from growing/stop them turning into untouchables?
Thank you for covering Midra, he's such a mysterious character, always wondered what he's up to.
I agree with all of your findings except, personally, I interpreted the manse and all of its inhabitants as unknowing victims of the frenzy flame. That this story of the manse was to highlight the inevitability of the frenzy, similar to the slow crawl of godwyn's deathblight, and not like the deliberate, sinister agenda of shabriri in the lands between. that the presence of frenzy at the manse was a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts - that perhaps it was truly an academic endeavor to understand this frenzy flame, then an honest effort by the hornsent to stop the study before it got out of control and everyone involved unknowingly furthered the frenzy flame's influence. the tortured soul recounting his plea didnt seem to know why the inquisitors were persecuting the people of the manse, to me it seems like at that point, the frenzy hadn't made itself known (the 'unjust' slaughter laying the foundation for the frenzy). I saw nanaya's "endure" as genuine, but unfortunately, midra's enduring slowly primed him as a candidate for the frenzy (floodgates, as you said). the spinal column nanaya cradles their newborn child, who perhaps fell victim to the frenzy hungry and alone in his dead mother's arms and not some sick trophy from nanaya's previous frenzy victim. (why would shabriri not possess her body to speak to us in this moment? to me, the devs wanted a separation in motive from nanaya and shabriri). the aging untouchables, academics of the manse who escaped death alongside their peers, but witnesses to cruelty becoming, again, unknowing prime subjects for the frenzy to inhabit before losing themselves over time and becoming the monsters we seem them as today.
to me, it seems redundant from a story/ dev perspective to introduce the manse and have the underlying mechanics/ plot be the exact same of the lands between : shabriri/nanaya acting as a villainous persona for the frenzy flame to manipulate the world. rather, I think they added the manse to add depth to the way the outer gods manifest their influence, that chaos can be born naturally the way rot and decay occur naturally.
Unsure if midra and Nanaya created the Ageing untouchables, from Midra’s diary entry he seems utterly terrified of it. Doesn’t line up. I think one came to the abyssal woods, maybe even with nanaya? And it started from there, she encouraged him or organised that first contact. Also if the ageing untouchables were such a vanguard why didn’t they stop the inquisitors? No I think nanaya brought one and the misery that the inquisition brought created more, maybe even the executed outside have something to do with it. Love the observation about midra moving like a puppet 🤌🏽 😃
You truly are a treasure. Your content is one of the few things that have kept me (relatively) sane over the last few weeks. Insert whichever words that amount to an internet someone giving you the highest of praise - that’s from me. You’re the bee’s knees, and I hope that someday Miyazaki picks your brain for ideas in his next creation.
That’s too kind my friend, so pleased the content has been good and thanks for sharing that
@@SmoughTown see, this is why I find you to be a lovely human! I am not the target demographic to have stumbled on your content. I am not a gamer. I do, however, have a fascination with a *good* story. Video games are an excellent medium to tell a story, especially a multi-faceted one. You’ve made it possible for (at least more than a few) people to enjoy a work of art, who would otherwise never be able to. You take the time to show appreciation to “fans”. I’ve seen you give words of encouragement to rising content creators. You’re doing this whole Human™️ thing pretty okay, in my book. With the power to bestow internet Christmas tidings, I truly hope that you are able to live your life in whatever way brings you the most joy.
@@BlueberryBatter I am truly grateful that the algorithm found you. I am just so lucky to get all the kind support I do, and I am thankful you are here. I hope you have a magic Christmas period as well!
Boss is gone. Slow day at work. Smough posts an hour long lore video. Today is a good day.
Hope you enjoy my friend
Dragons, gold, trees, serpents, rot, blood.
*They all burn the same.*
Praise the sub notification working
“Have you seen the yellow sign?”
The Yellow Sign is a fictional symbol or glyph, first described in Robert W. Chambers' book The King In Yellow. Its nature is unknown, but it seems to possess a strange siren call to the dark world of the King in Yellow and Carcosa, such that those who are exposed to it are doomed.
this immediately came to mind for me when I first encountered The Frenzied Flame. There are some parallels to yet another lovecraftian theme.
another amazing video! the frenzied flame has the most terrifying stories in the game - and I'll never forget the moment I entered the abyssal woods and felt its dread, although its a shame I didn't found it by myself after giving a lot of honest trying, because the path that leads to it is way too hidden, and had to watch others's playthroughs to figure it out... ( to see a tiny ladder at shadow keep and the hidden wall )
Such a cool design for a character tortured by the power they coveted
Im so happy! This just made my whole week!(my week has been awesome though thanks to the other channel) Poor Midra, I feel he was tricked to suffer :( but this explains it soooo much better!
MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!
Frenzy?? I was frenzied once…
They buried me in a dungeon...
A Leyndell Dungeon.
@@Elden_Beastieit was full of omens… I hate omens…
@@Elden_Beastie A Leyendell Dungeon full of fingers…
The fingers made me frenzied.
@@pepper6174frenzied? I was frenzied once.
Rats may not feel despair, but apparently they can feel regret. May CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD
One correction to this video is that the guidebook for Shadow of the Erdtree describes the Aging Untouchables as eldritch beings other than that good video Smough and have a good day
Ohh interesting - I didn’t know that!
Is it the same in Japanese tho?
It might be a localization thing
The guidebook isn’t written by Fromsoft though and they’ve gotten lore wrong before
Isn’t it implied in one of the lore pieces that Midra touched one of the aging untouchables and that’s how he acquired the flame?
There’s a diary note in his library that describes an encounter with an Aging Untouchable, and it also provides gameplay insights into how to defeat them.
As to who wrote the diary page? It’s difficult to know. Because depending on your answer, the entire lore of the region gets recontextualised. Personally, I think it was one of Midra’s men who wrote the page, who also met one of those creatures, not midra himself
Always amazing videos from you! I actually changed some of my opinions on the nature of some things based on this video's analysis! I really think a more appropriate analysis of the Fingers are as these alien but still living and fallible characters - with strange personalities of their own. The Two Fingers are capable of hubris and lies, and the Three Fingers really does seem like the black sheep of the bunch. Maybe the best interpretation is: what do Fingers do if they despair, as people do? Outer Gods are always discovered by those looking for answers - and perhaps the Three Fingers discovered Frenzy much like how Mohg and the Bloodfiends discovered the Formless Mother.
I'm honestly of the opinion that the Frenzied Flame represents the true Greater Will, which has soured at creation. The Two Fingers and even Metyr no longer receive messages from the Greater Will, yet the Three Fingers (who, thanks to you, I definitely believe was the "aberrant child" of Metyr) speak for a truly active cosmic power. However, it's one that no one wants to hear.
And I think that's sort of what the Frenzied Flame represents - truths so ugly and so deeply baked into the fabric of the world that you must either live a comfortable lie (your vision obscured and tinted by gold, sort of "rose/gold-tinted lenses) or go mad with the horrific truth that god/Greater Will is not simply dead or dormant, but it hates its creation and wants to undo it all. It really harkens back to Demon's Souls and the Old One.
They say the eyes are windows into the human soul, and i think this is very true in Elden Ring. I think it's worth understanding that it's the Golden Order society that considers the Flame of Frenzy a disease, but it's likely that the madness being inflicted upon you when someone stares at you with frenzied eyes is also a matter of empathy, much like looking into someone's eyes IRL is a sign or method of empathizing. Looking into the eyes of the Frenzied makes you share in their feelings - in this case, desperation, horror, and apocalyptic despair. Calling it a "disease" is a way of explaining away that empathy and dehumanizing those who are "afflicted" by feelings of despair. The physical flame is the associated action of melting everything away - the only way to undo the original sin that cannot be fixed any other way. The fact that rats can be afflicted might actually imply that animals in the ER universe also have emotions, and rats are the most susceptible to feelings of despair. After all, how else would goats carry Frenzy, since they don't eat corpses?
Midra then is such an interesting character in this. It really seems he was introduced to this philosophy and subject by Nanaya, but he only wanted to research it. He thus conducted all these terrible experiments, but the fact he never wanted to release frenzy shows that he was really only interested in studying it, until the very end. Of course, it is always the forces of Order that cause the release and proliferation of Chaos, by their own paranoia and violent overreach.
OMG JUST WHEN I MADE A FRENZIED FLAME VIDEO. I'm diving into this video so bad.
Hope you enjoy!
Posted during my lunch break?? May SmoughTown take my like! 👍 ❤️
Hahah! Hope you had a good lunch break!
MAY SMOUGHTOWN TAKE THE LIKES 👏
You're my favourite youtuber, your videos always brighten my day. Never lose that passion you've got for these games❤
Much appreciated. So pleased you enjoy the content!
it's a difficult argument to make that the untouchables were created my midra when the description of their talisman is spoken by nanaya.
Was about to go mad if I had to wait another day for a new Smough video
Sorry for the wait! I hope you enjoy!
The outer god of Verdigris is likely the god of rot. Rust is in a way the rot of metal.
I think this is the first time I've heard you voice a ghost, lol. I thought not doing so was a deliberate choice.
I simply love that despite how hidden the route of chaos is, once you find it you are suddenly overwhelmed by all this crazy lore, which completely restructures our worldview of elden ring
You always deliver the finest gems of lore videos man!
Ah man I’ve been waiting for this one. May chaos take the world.
i truly watch midras cutscene everytime i get chills 😭
May chaos take the world 🔥 _ 🔥
Perfect. A new video to fall asleep to. Good night!
Thanks very much! Sleep well!
This is it. This is the singlemost video I have been been WAITING for the moment I saw that awful forest with an orange hue.
I've been fascinated with the Frenzied Flame the moment I wandered into the village in the weeping penninsula. I'm so excited for this video.
Rats can definitely feel sad. Not sure about despair, but they are social and thus have some degree of emotions.
I also enjoy the significance of Melina asking you whether you think that life endures, 'There is beauty in that, is there not?'. Could you even witness the beauty if your eyes are burning with the despair of Frenzy? If you fully give in to despair you are blinded if not first by the bright yellow chaos flame's light, eventually by your eyes burning out. Giving in to Frenzy will prevent you from being able to witness the beauty of the world that remains forever.
Thank you so much for this video! May Chaos take the world! ❤
My pleasure! Hope you enjoyed the video
I've had this idea for awhile and I think there's ample evidence of it now, that the 3 fingers are marikas original fingers. Marika and her order are referenced multiple times as twisted and sick from the start. What better way to dispel order than by usurping it and then destroying the very thing that governs order, the elden ring itself. The 3 fingers proximity to Marika and her capital, the fact that Marika has gone to great lengths to conceal her past, the fact that all emperyeans are assigned fingers all corroborate this theory.
One thing I absolutely love about Midra is that he confirms something hinted at in the base game if we become the Lord of Frenzied Flame. Which is that once you no longer resist the frenzy doesn’t violently take control. Rather when you embrace it there’s a sort of levity.
I’ve been looking forwards to this video for a while, being able to watch a video on one of my favourite gaming bosses of all time, while looking at the cosmic horror aspects of the Frenzied Flame
When battling Mini Midra watching the cutscene it immediately popped into my head the idea that he was becoming the Lord of Frenzied Flame, and then the amazingly discordant music that plays truly made my jaw drop
You always drop content right as I'm sitting down to eat and I love you for it.
What a treat of a video. Can't wait to dig in!
My favorite character from Shadow of the Erdtree. He suffers in interesting ways. He never meant chaos, but in learning you find that order and chaos are just two brothers with a mean streak against each other within a circle. Ying and yang if that helps. Reminds me too much of myself. Midra is very human and sorta reminds me of High Lord Wolnir. Midra did want this for his life, craved discovery. Wolnir was similar in the case of being in a similar situation, not exactly undeath. Definitely fear and pain. One wanted to live, the other acted like a gate keeper. But fear in the end and loss lead to these beings becoming damned within circumstance.
Im so happy someone else noticed how Midra's movements were puppet like. Ive seen another interpretation that he danced with the sword embracing the destruction. But I prefer the idea that his autonomy was completely removed when embracing the flame
Midra was one of my favorite bosses from the dlc. Like holy shit he's so cool. The whole area was so dope and fun. I was sad when I finished the area
35:37 wth is that sound effect 😂😂😂
YOUR TIMING I just came back from my snack run we have a snow storm this is PERFECT thank you sir smough 👌🏾
Midra, Lord of the Mid. Nah, but he really a cool but sad guy, glad to put him out of his misery.
Loved finding Midra, and he absolutely feels like a god puppeting a body during the fight.
Personally I believe Nanaya's Torch is composed of two parts - the first being the Flame of Frenzy, which after this video I think Nanaya kept with her and nursed the flame so it wouldn't die out (as in, she had the flame prior to arriving at the Manse). The second part is the small spinal column, which I think is the child of Nanaya and Midra that did not survive - likely even being killed by the inquisition and driving Midra to commit to becoming the lord before being impaled.
My last playthrough was a frenzied flame build, was the most fun I’ve had by far. It was always so funny just walking straight into enemies or invaders and if their poise was low enough, them just getting stunlocked until their meter was full and I get a free heavy R2 with Vyke’s.
I legitimately just finished my first play through two weeks ago. The Frenzied Flame ending was my first choice. May Chaos Take The World! 🔥
Honestly I was expecting the headcanon at the finale: Nanaya was Shabriri all along.
Think about that: there's an entity, first and most important prophet of the Frenzied Flame (Yelough Anix?) and the Three Fingers, who can possess corpses and live through ages (we know for sure he had contact with Vike and tried to manipulate him).
And then there's that painting, where Nanaya has her eyes covered and a little smirk on her mouth, just like the talisman of Shabriri.
Honestly loved this storyline and ending
this was a banger video.
Thanks my friend, I really enjoyed making this one
always thought midra was the most interesting character in the dlc so im glad to get a lore vid on him!
Also like how the two fingers are uniform and perfectly symmetrical while the three fingers don't have a single finger the length width or angle of another, more chaotic some may say
57:05 "There is something of the Golden Order in the sight of those fixed upon this crux."
I like to think of this quite literally. The imagery of the golden thorns growing inside of Midra reminds me of how the Elden Ring lays inside Radagon/Marika. To relate it to what St. Trina says about Miquella "Godhood is a prison" Maybe in order to become a god, or a Lord of Frenzy, one only need to suffer forever.
Maybe Marika shattering the Elden Ring was an attempt to escape this self-imposed prison, once she realized that godhood wasn't really what she wanted.
It makes sense thematically that the lord of chaos and lord of order go through similar processes to become the surrogate for their respective deity.
Midra is definitely my favorite part of the DLC.
Thank you for your videos Smough!
What I got from you is: she broke the elden ring because she went frenzy. Nice.
@@PoofintonQuackmuffins Maybe breaking the elden ring was for marika as removing the sword was for midra.
@@misterio3678 may chaos take the world 🙏
What if Nanaya called upon the inquisition, knowing what was to come? she seemed to be isolated in a secure location, as if she knows whats coming and locked herself away.
If everything becomes one again, no flaws or fractures, wouldn’t that be PERFECT order?
One thought I had was "what could cause a two-finger to fall to Frenzy?" The only thing I could come up with is the realization that the Greater Will had abandoned them
I believe some ideas in Midra’s story is inspired by a manga called Fire Punch. Specifically the “endure” curse and the transformation after that is shockingly familiar with Fire Punch, and given Miazaki’s love of Berserk it’s not like gaining inspiration from a manga would be out of the ordinary.
Just a cool little detail, it’s like a little wink to the nerds if you want to take it that way.
I like the idea that Vaati mentioned that Nanaya was possessed by Shabriri, given she has the same smile in the picture. Personally, I believe she somehow knew the person whose spine is in the torch when they were taken by frenzy, and in her despair Shabriri took her over and led her to the lands between to find a new host. Once Midra was set up to "endure" forever, Shabriri left Nanaya's body to further spread chaos and in her last moments she cradled the last remains of her former lover/child/etc. She could also just be a maiden of the 3 fingers and the smile is just a symbolic link
He did meet with the fingers. If there are fingerprints, that means the fingers were present. Midra definitely communed with the fingers. Also, there is a note about touching an aging untouchable in the Manse. I believe the untouchables came before Midra.
I had an idea about the untouchables. Maybe how they were made was with people being forced to ingest grapes, hundreds maybe thousands. The grapes concentrate the flame when eaten so eating so many may draw a fragment of the flame. Doing this though tainted the land around the person who was then used to commune with the fingers as a medium. Therefore the beheaded were turning into untouchables but were dealt with, a crystal shoved down their neck to seal the grapes in..
To gaze into one another's eyes is truly the most intimate form of
human contact.
It is interesting that the words of the 3 fingers can be heard by Hyetta almost instantly but the words of the Greater Will will take years or hundreds of years for the two fingers at the round table to hear from
My personal theory on three fingers is that there are a failed upgraded version of the two fingers that found the wrong outer god
Midra is my favorite DLC Boss and the Frenzied Flame is my favorite ending outside of Dungeaters ending. MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!
May chaos take the World... but only not while Smoughtown is still releasing videos.
I had been waiting to share my thoughts on the Three Fingers and the Frenzied Flame after your Metyr video, so I will do so now!
What if the Three Fingers were birthed with the purpose to reach far beyond its Two Fingered siblings? And, maybe, while trying to find and reach The One Great in the empty vastness of the cosmos, they found something else? Something so unfathomably chaotic, it destroyed its mind and purpose, and took its body?
Thank you for making this video, Mr Smough! Midra and Nanaya deeply mystified me ever since I heard of them, and I'm happy my favourite lore hunter tackled their lore!! Cheers from Mexico!🎉
Ah, may chaos take the world...
*MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD*
I always thought theorists were a little too generous taking Hyetta at her word. If Shabriri is anything to go off of, the Fingers and their agents are perfectly willing to twist the truth and whisper whatever sweet lies it needs to to make sure their plans go through.
That being said tho, AMAZING video as always!!!
I'm getting the feeling that the 3 fingers were deformed or wounded like you said. When it was placed in the tomb, l imagine it began reaching out for anything. No mother, no siblings, no contact. All alone in the bottom of a deep dark pit, screaming.
It doesn't surprise me that it came around to frenzy
I think it's interesting to measure the time that it takes to become a lord or chaos depending on method. We became a lord very soon after being touched by the three fingers, earliest possible point that makes sense within story would be our meeting with Shabriri. This is at the very start of the endgame bosses starting with fire giant and ending with elden beast, even if that took some time in universe it doesn't even compare to Midras long suffering. I feel like the chaos flame could have taken over our bodies at any point after we met with the three fingers, but it decided to wait and grow stronger within us until we were at the center of the erdtree. Miquellas needle can't be used unless you are outside of time essentially, and I have a feeling that if the needle was used anywhere else, the same thing would happen to us as did to vyke, an incomplete transformation into a lord of chaos that loses their individuality and becomes a broken husk. I feel like Midras transformation didn't occur until Jori was defeated and someone from the outside world stepped into the manse, making the chaos see the opportunity to leave the abyssal woods.