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Despite of the fact that you said in your last video, you can't say anything new about the Silent Hill games that hasn't been said, in this video you've done a great job of providing a new and interesting perspective on SH2
Exactly. I didn't even think about it as twist. Also it could be many other things. That he left her to die but didn't kill himself or just cheated on her, or that she is still alive.
i understand where is coming from but yeah definitely agree with u. i remember when i played soma i predicted the ending very quickly but it still haunts me to this day just due to how well written, acted, etc it was
This is a small detail, but it's been annoying me. The new James facial expression looks bad. He just looks sad all the time, like he's about to cry. That wasn't the point of his character in the beginning. The original James was seemingly emotionless, empty, disconnected as he touched his face in the rest stop to prove to himself that he's not dreaming. Like he's not caught in a nightmare. He buried those feelings of despair and guilt, which start to surface organically as the story evolved and became manifested in horrifying ways. The new James is looking like he is about to burst into tears or scream at the drop of a hat. I think it's giving too much away and missing the point of the original James and the original story of SH2.
@@mickaokiji The point is going right over their heads. James is supposed to be an empty man who has no concern for his safety and is pushing down his emotions, only for them to surface in terrifying ways. He's a mystery in the beginning of the story. We're not supposed to know of his mental state right off the bat. And the argument of "dated graphics is why he seems emotionless" can be dismissed when the player actually pays attention to the dialogue. And I just have to say, those dated graphics still hold up today, in my opinion. They were amazing at the time.
The fact is blooper should have started with remaking the first game. It would have been perfect for learning from any mistakes, because SH1 is not the most popular game. And it would have even benefited the story for SH2, establishing that standard of saving the missing girl. Remaking SH2 is only the way to make the most money the fastest.
Agreed. I'm quite surprised they just skipped over the first one which really needed a remake imo but instead went with the most *popular* of the SH games I guess...
It's the most popular game in Japan, just not in the West. SH2 was done because they are marketing to the West and they get more revenue from the West. Thus, why they are willing to again put it in the hands of Western devs and allow modernization to take place with it.
Yea, i also wandered way not start with the first considering is the most outdated one, that really needs the remake treatment . That would have been smarter imo , try with the first , see what the reception is , if is worth to make the second as well or learned from mistakes and have the second be that much better . I hope it turns out good , but i have a felling it won't compere at all as a remake to RE4 and DS . At the very least still be a SH2 experience how you would expect if not that impressive as a remake .
I think the new team might miss the influence of David Lynch, the off tone and odd behaviors of David Lynch’s movies/characters was a major influence on SH2, with some scenes directly inspired from Blue Velvet, the bloober team trailer comes off as melodramatic compared to odd and subdued/eerie like the original SH2 trailer
Twin Peaks has a very similar style soundtrack aswell. It's incredible how you can combine the kind of groovy and relaxing atmosphere with something legitimately terrifying.
@@eka437You're both wrong lmao. SH2 is EASILY the most lynchian. SH4 is mildy Lynchian and Shattered Memories was a very far cry from anything Lynchian.
Which parts are explicitly inspired by Blue Velvet? I can see pieces of Mulholland Dr and Lost Highway, but not blue velvet, other than the closet scene.
Also, the original was heavily influence by the 1990 psychological horror masterpiece Jacob's Ladder, no not the atrocious remake. Silent Hill 3 references Jacob's Ladder directly with the Bergen St. subway station.
Even negating the surprise factor, if the story is changed or censored to appease “modern sensibilities”, then the remake automatically fails. Though based on the complete lack of subtlety we’ve seen so far, I think it already has.
I’m purely looking to this remake as a curiosity. The fact that we have the PC Enhanced Edition means that the perfect version of this game already exists. I have low hopes for it
@@mattmas6628indeed, the way I look at it, best case scenario we get Peter Jackson's King Kong: a decent retelling of the story that's worth watching, but not as good as the original. Worst case scenario we get the 1976 King Kong: an embarrassing trainwreck that's quickly forgotten.
The "modern sensibilities" excuse for altering a story in a remake or adaptation always seems to an open floodgate for game designers to take unnecessary liberties with details within the story, even allowing them to go as far as to insert their own personal ideological undertones or censor things that never needed to be censored
I've never understood why when something offends someone instead of just avoiding it, they go out of their way to destroy it. Being offended doesn't give anyone automatic power to mould the world as they see fit because it's the first step toward facism
Exactly. Either you nail the story right or you don't get it at all. It's like if they remade the God Father in 2025 and took out the gritty mob murders, betrayal and scandal. It wouldn't be the God Father, it be a day time soap opera.
I think too much importance is placed on the 'twist' in SH2. The story isn't great BECAUSE of the twist. It's great because it's a detailed, complex character study. SH2's story can still work even if you know the 'twist', because the imagery and symbolism is actually the best part, along with the moments highlighting James and Mary's relationship. Big twists were a hot trend back in the early 2000's, but placing so much importance on a singular moment of reveal in a story will always have diminishing returns. Yet people always return to SH2, because even knowing the twist, the story is still full of amazing, nuanced character moments. The world is still full of strange imagery and metaphors. In that regard, I think a SH2 story retold today could still work. Just place less importance on the twist. Scrap the TV scene completely and just let the revelation happen through tiny moments in the environment and in dialogue. Like how Angela's story is told. Which is an amazing story that doesn't require an 'all is revealed' moment.
Agreed. Quite unfortunate how Silent Hill 2's twist has been the ball and chains of the series ever since. Or at least ever since Konami handed the franchise over to Western studios. There's more to the franchise than the main character having some serious mental baggage we'll learn about in act 3.
I also think the twist of James killing Mary is not the only "twist." If it was the only important aspect of the story, then the reason why would not matter. James killing Mary as an act of selfishness, not mercy, is what was most impactful, especially given that throughout the story he is shown to be head over heals for her.
very much this (at least for me). The twist is largely irrelevant. You figure out something isn't right with James pretty quickly. The fact that HE did it isn't all that interesting. It's everything surrounding it. Why he did it, why Maria looks the way she does, why the monsters look they way they do, etc. Even the endings past the twist- how he deals and copes with the revelations of what he has suppressed and lied to himself about - what he has done and why- are super compelling.
Exactly. Silent Hill is enthralling because the whole game, the mechanics, the soundtrack, the environment, the monster design, tells a story. The plot and dialogue if anything, clarify things. But the bulk of the character studies happen with the details in the game.
@@reakefit7304Right? Like if you seen the body, said goodbye to it, bury or burn it and suddenly you received a letter from said dead spouse you have every right to get mad and hunt down the tasteless prankster.
@Zminator1986 you do realize theres never been 3 years right? This story starts literally 3 days after he kills her. James just went insane and lost track of time. Theres even rumors that Marys body was in the car all along.
I’ve been paralyzed for 4 years, I’ve seen my family go through every emotion. They at first had no change to their emotions, then the got angry, then depressed, sad, and still to this day HAVENT come to complete acceptance but I don’t blame them. I can’t imagine my parents seeing their child almost die, hooked up to tubes, in constant agony. I can’t imagine how my cousins felt. And one of my closest friends thinks he could’ve stopped it somehow and it worsened his alcoholism. I saw him feel so much guilt and despair, it broke his mind for a long time. I wish I never got myself into the mess, for all the pain I feel, it’s worse seeing the ones you live in pain than yourself.
“James..if that were true, then why do you look so sad?” This line always make me tear up. It summarizes exactly how I felt when I watched my father slowly die painfully. He was so difficult to deal with because he was still guilt tripping me for not achieving his expectations even though he had not provided any support for it. I felt like I was dealing with a bad boss and I wanted to get away. It was also awful seeing someone who is so vibrant shrink slowly into a bag of bones…Silent Hill 2’s accurate representation of this resentment developing between the patient and their loved ones as they realize that there is nothing but hopelessness ahead, is what makes this story so haunting, relatable, and timeless. That Kotaku article absolutely missed the point and it is an insult to the whole team who translated these complex yet inherent feelings into a work of art.
I'm pretty sure there were leaks about this game being adapted to "Modern Audiences" and Bloober Team saying that they gonna make Silent HIll 2 as they envisioned the game back when they played. These are the famous last words for any media in development. Let's just hope they will make a good survival horror game.
I think Silent Hill 2 also deserves praise for blurring the line between "it's all in the head" and "it happened for real" under the justification that the town itself was using his psyche to torture him. Most story and design elements can be justified as coming from James' mind, but if that were the only case, there was no way he would be able to gain access to places like Heaven's Night which are heavily locked up and which only Maria can open. Similarly, the roads have huge gaps and scaffolds (their origin is never explained) which James physically cannot go trough and force him to take specific routes to get to the hotel as a way to bring back the memories he has of his time with Mary to punish him. It's kind of similar to the part where Nicole opens the door in Dead Space, which forces you to consider that possibly it wasn't just "it was all in the head."
My biggest fear is that theyll water down or just ruin angela in the remake. The original handled the dark and sad undertones so perfectly. Its real life issues and real life situations and the game paid respect to that. If they ruin angela in the remake i will be legitimately heart broken. The modern audience thing is making me so nervous. Sh2 tackled a lot of uncomfortable dark stuff
Silent hill 2 contains so many uncomfortable subjects, but that's what made it unsettling. I want a remake that's better gameplay and graphic wise. Any changes to the original story or scenes/monsters and ill be heartbroken.
@@Tswift819 the best thing they can do is, maintain/tell the same story but with some extras or with more deep on some subjects, also improve the gamepley cuz the original gameplay was horrible n i played it long ago n still remember how "heavy" james felt to move...
Ito had was told that the nurse monsters showed to much skin... "Yeah the representation of james' repressed libido and guilt, in a game where sex and death are the central themes of monster design, is showing to much skin."
Ito is the least reliable imo. The guy also says pyramid heads interaction with the nurses doesn't have any sexual component. He even copy that same scene from Blue Velvet and is an abusing "sexual" scene. His in denial, just like james.
@@guilhermefioresi7538 You seem to not know or follow Ito then, he's have had controversy for contradicting himself and the series multiple times. I dont care anyways, I'm just saying hes not the best at explaining things, maybe it's a language thing. Or maybe he just doesn't get the full picture because when you create a game division of labour exists, Sato would not be in lign with what Ito said about the nurses, since Death and Sex is one of the key components of SH2, and I get Sato more than I get Ito.
It’s a shame that a game which came out when I was a teenager expected us to be more adult, but the remake and the media now pretend to be mature while imposing an infantile outlook.
i have always thought all the sexual “frustration” stuff in the game is james just beating himself down for just having one thought about another woman while he was at the hospital. and he is just tormenting himself the entire game for just having that thought not that he was “horny” or something stupid
Yes, exactly, sexuality is a part of being human. There's no indication James had an affair, so I agree it's all the guilt caused by his biological urges, being a man in his mid 20's who's not been able to have sex with his wife for a year or two.
Originally the sexual frustration theory was meant to get across the idea James was faithful to his wife and thus bottled up his sexual feelings whilst she was fuckin' dying, so it came out as monsters that represented his desire and inability to bone. Eventually this somehow became "James is a misogynist" because people are fucking stupid.
@@mdjey2 That doesn't really matter given what's in the actual game. Artist intent is cool to talk about and bring up, but ultimately it is inherent that all art speaks for itself.
if any ending would be the ''canon'' ending, it would be the leave ending for me. James killing himself doesn't make sense to me after his cutscene with the 2 pyramid heads, were he finally gains the courage to want to life and no longer wishes to be punished for his sins (thus the 2 pyramid heads kill themselves). plus he also fulfills Mary's last wish, and adopts laura. which seems like a much better way to atone for one sins, then simply killing themselves.
It's awesome how everyone seems to have their own personal interpretation of the story and how it should end. I think the In Water ending could still be understandable considering what the player must do to acheive it. According to the Silent Hill forum, to get this ending the player must examine Angela's knife, read the second message at Bar Neely's , read the diary at the top of the hospital, listen to the headphones and hallway conversation at the Hotel, and keep James' life low. The knife puts the thought of suicide into James' head. The bar message gives the idea that James could reunite with Mary in the afterlife, but James would most likely go to Hell while Mary resides in Heaven. The headphone conversation, hallway conversation, and hospital diary are reminders of Mary and her illness. And having James' life low indicated that he is weak and on the verge of death. I could see the Pyramid Head fight as a battle of acceptance over his sins, and his suicide in Toluca Lake has his way of atonement since that is what was drilled into his head from the previous actions(which is interesting because to get the Leave ending the player must do actions that lead James to think of what Mary would've wanted, examine Mary's photo and letter, get James' health high, don't spend time with Maria, and listen to the headphone and hallway convo). The endings of this game are a really good executon of how what the player decides to do affects the narrative.
I tend to disagree; James was reckless the entire game, not caring about danger, jumping into giant holes with no way of knowing if it was safe - he didn't seem to care about his safety or life - I don't see him caring about his well being thus him killing himself in the end makes perfect sense to me. But I love the discussion around how everyone sees the endings and the events differently and I don't see the game has having any "right" or even "wrong" ending - just what you personally see and understand it. I do see your perspective and while it isn't my understanding I do see the logical reasoning. I do find him adopting the girl to be more sickening than heartfelt though; I could not imagine the potential trauma of being raised by someone who told you he murdered what was a friend / mother figure to you, and James is in hardly a position from my own personal outlook to be raising a child.
@@kellevichyfor me, the leave ending seems to be a more pleasing ending to me, carrying his guilt while going on with his life instead of ending it all in the water ending as if he was too far gone from redemption.
Unfortunately, we know James' fate in The Room, as his father says he went missing. The official stance was In Water was the true ending. James faced himself in the end, but that did not mean he forgave himself and left himself with just the desire to be with Mary again. It would be tragic, but consider the emotional impact reading the letter as just the gamer, then think of how that effected James. He would not register her wanting him to live and move one, but only see what was lost. I'd prefer the Leave ending too, so you know.
Psycho absolutely still works today. Having seen both Psycho and played SH2 for the first time a few years ago, of course I was able to predict what was really going on, but that didn't make it any less tense or engaging, because they are both subtle, masterfully crafted works of art with a lot more to their stories than just the reveal at the end. Bloober team is simply incapable of subtlety, and stories like Psycho and SH2 live and breathe in subtlety. That's why the remake is going to fail, because of misguided execution, not because the twist is dated.
@@daskampffredchen Yes, this is exactly what makes re-visiting psychological stories like this so rewarding even if you know what's coming, you can pick up on the essential details you may have missed the first time.
@@TheNwahDango Yeah. In Silent Hill you can see metaphores in the enemy design. Especially Pyramid Head representing his internal struggle with guilt for killing his wife. The second one only shows up after James killed Eddy. So after he took another humans life
My grandfather was recently in the hospital for a few months. Every single day my grandmother would ask if someone would drive her there. Seeing my grandpa in worse living conditions and in worse shape day after day was increasingly getting to her. Even snapping at my mother which never happened before. Now with James going through this for YEARS, I could only imagine the toll that takes on someone’s mind.
I would recommend watching the Silent Hill videos by Max Derrat. He does some pretty deep dive analysis videos that bring in everything from Eastern philosophy to Carl Jung. His are some of the best I've seen.
The multiple endings of SH2 make it endlessly fascinating. More games need this open ended structure, however having only played the game once, I only knew of the multiple endings because of youtube videos. This isn't necessarily a criticism, but what it means is people probably experienced different endings randomly and without knowing that the others existed at the time the game released, so hypothetically you had large groups of people who had radically different final impressions of the game. I think this may have added to the games longevity and staying power, as its mysteries continue to be revealed to this day to players who didn't know "the whole story".
When I finished SH2 for the first time years ago, the ending I had was "María" and I thought it was canon. But when I started a new game I was confused by having a different ending which was "Leave". I was surprised to find out that the game has multiple endings
@@daskampffredchenI have a very good idea about those ending reqirements, and it's related to a bunch of stuff most gamers, new and old, would never even give a second thought. Again, it’s about subtlety
Got my grandmother pass away in 2020 bcs of a hospital bacteria, I loved her, too kind of a person, I wanted her to recover, but I knew she didn't wanted to do something to try and recover, and while she suffered a little we where taking care of her till her last moments. You feel a ton of emotions bcs of "what if X happens" combined with the frustration of being tired and also bcs the person just want to let himself to dead but at the same time they still want to live, bcs the will to live is part of us. You also want them to go happy and loved before they pass. Also having no charge of conscience of not doing the right thing bcs of laziness. Has you said, the game has a "whole" doesn't matter if the story and the way is told is not even at the same level. Even if I not even played more that 2 SH I still feel the history even if is told by other ppl in videos. God job brother.
The concerns over how people were going to react to Eddie is kinda funny when you see what Bloober actually did to him (literally making him far more disgusting than he was in the OG game for some inexplicable reason).
On December 28, 2015, Roland King, (87), shot Rita King, (81), his wife of 50 years, in the head with his father's WWII Enfield service revolver. Rita had spent the last 3 years with dementia and had reached the point were she did not have the ability to retain information and could only make simple decisions about eating and drinking. Roland told staff: "I've just shot my wife. She had suffered enough."
@@FreeOpenTruth So you are against euthanasia in any case? So if someone is just suffering and not able to use their body in any way we should let them suffer until they die of old age?
@@daskampffredchen - If the person wants to die and asks for help it's not murder. It's assisted suicide. Murder is when the person doesn't ask to be killed. That lady with dementia didn't ask to be gunned down.
15:37 "You'd better do something about that cough" I don't know man, the way James said it made it feel like it was a threat rather than him worrying for Maria's health.
Considering that Konami confirmed there ditching the original design of the nurses because there to problematic for a "modern audience" the games story and themes are already worse off then the original.
I'm more concerned about Bloober saying that they are done making "psychological" horror games and that this Silent Hill 2 Remake is a taste of their first "mass-market horror" focus going forward. Yikes.
Simply put. This remake is failing to present the protagonist as an individual who has suppressed his mental and emotional struggle, with the facade tearing apart as the story unfolds.
Everything you said makes sense to me and I agree with you. I honestly had doubts about remaking Silent Hill 2. I worry old and new fans will compare any possible Silent Hill games after this remake of SH2 to the detriment of those games just as the original SH2 did for SH3, SH4 and SH5 if the game really does make the franchise take off again. I never really understood why people seemed to not give credit or eagerly shit on any Silent Hill game that came out after 2. 3 and 4 seemed to have been hit with that hardest because they were always comparing them with 2. Feels like there's just no making older fans happy. I've always found 3 scary and I seemed to deeply connect with the fears and themes in it even though I couldn't explain why at the time. I was about 14-16 when I played SH3. I think that if they were to remake any Silent Hill games it might be better to remake 1 and 3. I can see the SH2 remake being hated by old fans though I wouldn't be one of the haters. I thought remaking 2 was a terrible way to inject new life into the franchise until I heard about Ascension, and it seems to be a decision based on its enduring popularity and that may be a mistake. But there's hope for more lenient fans and new fans who aren't familiar with SH if & when the SH2 remake releases. I'll enjoy the originals and installments for what they are, and I'll enjoy a remake even if it's very different from the original. I'm a little less forgiving of the films due to the reasons the director gave for the changes he did.
It seems to me that this remake is likely to be a make-or-break moment for Bloober. They don't exactly have a stellar reputation to begin with. While they do seem to have some fans, I don't think anyone regards them as a top-tier developer. If they somehow manage to get this right, and we get a remake that's as good as the RE2 or RE4 remakes, that could earn Blooper an enormous amount of respect and reframe them as a top-tier developer. On the other hand, if they screw this up and give us a turd of a remake, then I think they're finished. They would be forever remembered as the folks who botched one of the most beloved games ever. They would be seen as the Kathleen Kennedy of video games.
I feel like a bit of the tones in James are quite noticeably complex and layered. They're very subtle but once you know what to look for, there's a lot to read into its subtext. Beyond the directorial intent of not letting the players know of what he feels, I believe that there's also a strong component of him feeling very slightly off. He seems fine, but very slightly off. I feel like looking at it exclusively as being directorial intent removes a lot of the nuance of how much it adds to the story and the characters, though I understand why you said as much. I look at it far more in the role that it plays for the character of James rather than the storytelling of the plot mystery. I also feel like beyond the twist of the story, it is also the fact that the twist is not the whole meat of the story. The meat is thankfully denser than its breading. Another meat-based analogy would be that the mystery and twist are just connective tissue to a character story which provides the real meat and nutrients. I feel like Silent Hill 2 still works perfectly today. Its twist is not that important to me. The twist is a dot that helps connect everything. In a psychological story, something like that is plot, to me, doesn't matter nearly as much as the character writing and examinations. And those are complex and timeless in Silent Hill 2. I feel like almost all psychological character writing which is good is bound to be timeless. If it's not timeless, it's probably because it's made a mistake somewhere which reduced its inherent quality. Psycho is a thriller, a very plot-driven one. That's part of why it doesn't work so well today. The character writing and complexity is not the focus, the suspense and mystery is. The suspense and mystery of Psycho are its meat, its connective tissue, its center and mass. All of its parts and all of its filmmaking. That's everything it is built for, and that is what Hitchcock is known for. He is the master of suspense, not the master of character study. Plot and mystery are much more fragile to time. It doesn't mean it'll fall to time, it can be made timeless, but it is more likely to be fragile, depending on how they are written. Silent Hill 2 has that as a component for the first time, but after you're done with that, there's way more to chew on. Those other things are what keeps the game from being dated to me; It's not really about the mystery. The mystery is simply the vehicle which guides you through the complexities and traumas of the very well-defined characters, and the quality of which it achieves that makes it timeless. I see it as a good example of horror precisely for those same reasons, like how in a lot of good psychological horror, the more traditional horror ends up being a vehicle for a much more real, and more terrifyingly tangible human horror. It is off of that same quality that Silent Hill 2 works. To me, Silent Hill 2 captures a lot of what's great about psychological thrillers and psychological horror fiction; Kafkaesque tones and themes, Lynchian surrealism, Stephen King's adult horror and Crime And Punishment's character complexity and definition. Speaking of which; Crime and Punishment is a book from the 1800s, but a lot of it still applies today.
James is the story, he's the vehicle for the player and how the player sees silent hill through HIS eyes. Failing to nail that out of the park will cause the whole house of cards to crumble. wanting to have the game play around with unrelated characters or events seems to have been an achilles heel as of late with new remake titles. side characters are there to support the main cast or main lead, shouldnt be bleeding time from the player's experience.
One can still do a character study on Bates, even if not the intent and focus of Hitchcock. It's been done. Not the deepest, but there is a reason we still know of it today.
@@blumiu2426 That's true. There's still layers to Bates as a character and I do think he's the best part of the film. All the dialogue with him is great.
23:22 As someone with BPD, and a lot of CSA related trauma I deeply related to Angela. She was presented well and I (and many others) headcanon her having borderline. Trauma victims aren’t people who just recover easily. I hope media outlets give her that, she’s an amazing representation of someone who has suffered through a lot. Good video all around!
they're gonna ruin her character entirely, make her self-centered, and then for a little treat they're going to change her ethnicity and make her not at all depressed but instead the bossy mean-girl 💀can't wait for sh2 remake, my hopse are sOooOOOoOoOOo high
Me and a couple of friends played this game when it came out as teens and we did definitely didn't guessed the twist. Now 20 years later I let my 16 year old son play the game while I sat with him. He did guess the twist about half way through. While me and my friends was scared, creept out, confused and all out paranoid about what was around the next corner or a working door. My son attitude was very gen-z gamery. Like cracking jokes, speeding around or just went around blasting every enemy as soon as he got the pistol and shotgun. He got really frustrated by how the camera worked and so spent a bit too much energy on complaining about it instead of taking in the story. However when he got to the hotel, his tone became way more serious. Really taking in what happend and what was being said. We talked for about an hour afterwards about the games themes and message. Since this game is really heavy I wanted him to be old enough to understand what was going on. He did understand way more than what I as a 16 year old did. So in regards to the remake. I've said multiple times that I'm causatively optimistic about it. I really want it to do the original story justice, that it is well received by players and that my worries are all proven wrong.
Maybe I'm a cynic but I really don't think this remake is gonna be worth a damn and it certainly isn't gonna compare to the original. Hell I don't expect it to even be shipped, it's probably gonna go the way of PT.
Spot on as always Mayo, I don't think I'll play the remake. I think the media around it will be toxic and I just don't think you can recreate the nuance of that original story.
watch the reviews of your most trusted reviewers. If they give the green light, play it and literally ignore any and all other criticism/controversy. I never bought or played The last of us 2 in silence. Didnt even talk to my friends about it that loved it.
The main reason why modern remakes are an issue is because its taking games and stories that defined a generation of gamers, game creators, artists and story writers then crapping them out for a now 'safe space' audience. Its fitting because nearly all remake titles released in the past 10 years have mostly been duds or missed the mark entirely. Silent Hill 2 was a incredibly dark story that didn't explicitly tell you what was going on with the characters but HEAVILY implied it. I guarantee you that they are going to cut it out because SONY is involved with the remake. Look at the RE remake franchise, F.fantasy and more. All locked into their console.. $ Like RE4 was always a batsh*t classic of a game that made no sense. Now its laid on so thick its unappetizing. You can shoot someone in the face, but we couldn't get an explanation as to why ADA WONG doesn't have a dress or why it wasn't a DLC item. Anything Sony is involved in is dead on arrival. Now they are remaking the Metal Gear series without Kojima unrestrained at the helm. Without all the melodramatic story telling, adult humor and adult situations along with the action set pieces will it even be Metal Gear? No, its old classics remade as if to be presented to your parents in their mid to late 50s.
xddddddddddd why should it be a question whether she has a dress or not? what a crybaby complaint also kojima did the trash msg 4 and 5, he is not required
@@GerardoFirestorm Ah yes. I am sure emotionless Konami that has been spitting in its fans face will do a much better job then the guy who literally created the Franchise
@@GerardoFirestorm Yeah, only crybabies complain when iconic characters are "reimagined" to have their iconic look unceremoniously stripped away. Damn crybabies! You WILL accept what corporation feeds you! If Capcom wants to reimagine Mega Man as a blue palette swap of Master Chief, you WILL enjoy it! You get it yet, corpo bootlicker?
yea like a movie production company with too much say it can sour a project. MGS was a relic and product of its time, you know they are going to fuck it up lol. As for ada's dancer in heels gettup someone attempted to say theylll add that dress later to the game but its too far too late to even bother. another dead pan entry that was ruined by today's ideas. "Casualties" as i've come to call them. FF7 will never recover in our life times, pretty sure someone in Japan is crying themselves to sleep every night over that mess.
It's great to find a video where the person actually understands the complexity of the story instead of just going superficially on it and missing a lot of the deeper layers. Kudos! Great content.
Im glad you noticed this about James face. In the original his face gives somewhat a childish, wonderlike expression. I would even say a little amused and curious. Along with character dialogs and the soundtrack, the whole story gives very grotesque execution yet has dreamlike lightness to it. And the scene in the mirror is so iconic, only because, like you said, his face is seemless. The whole beauty of first SH games that they have this bizzarre akwardness to its charachters along side with a heavy storyline.
I think of SH2 as a psychology test of sorts. The most satisfying ending for the player says a lot about the player. I prefer the Leave ending (unless you include the Dog ending) because I'm generally a forgiving sort, and honestly, killing Mary was marciful for both of them. Paradoxically, though, I do think that the In Water and the Ritual/Rebirth endings are better suited as canon for the franchise, given the somber, melancholy atmosphere that it's famous for, and Silent Hill 4 implies that one of those is in fact canon, because James's father is a character in that game, and it's stated that his son disappeared.
The endings really do say a lot about the players themselves. I know people who struggle with depression who's played the game several times and gotten nothing but the In Water ending each time, as an example
Controversially, I believe that the Rebirth ending is the most interesting one, as it is such a poetic conclusion to James’ character arc. While the three other endings represent him either forgiving himself (Leave), breaking under the feelings of guilt (In Water), or trying to justify his actions (Maria) - the fourth ending focuses on him not being able to draw any meaning from what happened. It is a beautiful cycle of regret, where a man desperately tries to fix what clearly cannot be fixed instead of owning up to the deed. Of course, when one is presented with such a complex dilemma - were his actions justified or not - it is much easier to try to avoid it completely by trying to get rid of the problem. No dead wife - nothing to own up to. This ending represents James being consumed by Silent Hill. Like Sisyphus, rolling a boulder up a hill for eternity, he will never find inner peace, instead just retracing his steps over and over again, hopelessly trying to fix what is clearly unfixable. This is by far the most likely outcome for someone in his position. And although it is perhaps the least satisfying finale to his story, it is the most brutal and uncompromising. For even over 20 years later, James is still there, in their special place, waiting for her.
Yeah it's definitely a compelling ending. I just don't count it in the discussion since it's an alt ending only unlockable on a replay. Still a good ending though.
Love your channel. You put everything I felt into words. There is a reason for every camera angle, every 3d model, every face animation and cutscene to be the way it fucking is. Why can't more people see this? The same thing happened with Bluepoint remakes of shadow of the colossus and demon's souls. Technically impressive, sure. Continuously miss the damn point; also sure. It really frustrates me.
Wrong about Shadow of the Colossus remake. That was their faithful remake, they only added the collection stuff. Demon's Souls is the one they took liberties.
The thing that matters to me the most is that James clearly just committed this act and was so lost and filled with adrenaline after that he has no idea what's going on. And we get to experience what he went through having murdered someone he loved deep down but also stood in his way from having a normal life back. It's essentially the nightmares you have after a bad event, like a breakup or losing a loved one... running after them in your dreams, only remembering that they're gone when you wake up. "In my restless dreams..."
Totally on point. Thats the issue with remakes - we already know how the story will play out. When i first played SH2 waaaay back then, i tought about a guy being stranded in a weird foggy place with monsters and weirdos and wanted to know "whats up with that place". Its a shame, really. They could have told a new story with a "bigger Silent Hill" - using modern tech to show an open world with puzzles, drama and being able to just morph the scenery and all.
You make an interesting point that we really don't know anything about James outside the plot and wondering about his marriage. He really is a hard to read character. He really is flat. While the new James in the Remake looks more somber and moppy, I still feel these emotions were present in the original. Now, I'm sure that's just subjective on my part. But when I played this game, I saw a guy who looked and expressed sadness because his wife died. At first glance, to me, he was sad because there's a part of him that misses her. And you could hear the emotion and sadness in his voice even though you couldn't see it fully expressed on the PS2. If he was flat, which let's be honest, he was, for me, it felt like he was trying to hold his feelings in and not show them. Like being depressed but still trying to smile that tells everyone, "I'm fine" so they don't dig deeper into his trauma. But he's really not fine. It's something that I could identify with but that could most likely be me projecting my own emotions onto the game. But that's also part of SH2's brilliance. The way it affects people through its storytelling and how it makes you feel. I'm very interested in seeing how they handle the Remake. Thanks for the video. I absolutely enjoyed it.
As I saw the trailer was hyped up because I never played SH2 and thought this was a way to enjoy it. But then I heard about Blooper's mishandling of mental illness, their statement that they won't go for psychological horror games, and the grim reminder that gamers/people, in general, are talking shit like that and have no nuances anymore. I am really more afraid of the game-changing its direction because of calls for cancellation. I hope not, because of that I am trying to get my hands on the SH2 PC copy and the SH2 EE mod.
This remake will either end up elevating Bloober Team to a venerated developer status, or end up entirely destroying their studio's reputation. I feel there will be no in-between. They obviously campaigned hard with Konami to land this gig, but starting from the most beloved emotionally charged complex entry in the series was a huge mistake. They probably should have started from SH1 to get a feel for it first and then moved on to SH2 once they were confident and had sorted out the kinks
I found your channel through your discussion on Smudcast, this is the first video of yours I have watched. You echoed pretty much every concern I have with the remake in the works but put it better than I could. Frankly I don't have high hopes for it given the state of the industry over the past few years but I hope for the original game's sake it is done right. You got a sub from me.
This video almost exactly reflects my concerns... I think Konami is just trying to replicate that remake gravy they saw from RE4. You can't replicate the amazing sound design+simple yet effective combat+storytelling. There is very little creative soul in all of the releases post SH3 - SH franchise storytelling is dead in the water lol.
To be honest,I don`t find an issue with the twist,since well...like it or not the majority of players ALREADY know the twist,whether they`d played the game or not. Numerous essays,videos etc. and their high viewership adds to this fact. I determine if a story had a good twist based on if that story works WITHOUT the twist itself. As in,if it can still be considered solid work. Psycho is great for that. I`ve seen Psycho for the first time 3 years ago and by then the twist had been hammered into many people`s brains. It wasn`t as shocking maybe,but it was still a great movie and had an enormous impact on me,especially the acting. The Psycho remake(?) didn`t work not because the audience got tired of it already,but mainly because it was BADLY acted. Had it been a separate movie(presuming the previous one didn`t exist) I reckon it`d STILL get flack because it`s just a bad movie. My biggest issue with this particular remake is that it`s done by Bloober Team and besides Observer, their work regarding mental health and game mechanics has been...well,less than stellar,let`s put it that way. It`s why I`m not worried about whether they`ll include `problematic` parts of the game,they probably will. But,given their track record,I`m afraid they`ll dumb it down a lot more. They never were subtle in any of their games. I`m miles more interested in the SH project done by Ryukishi07, Silent Hill f,than any of the other games they`ll release,this remake included.
just a reminder for anyone reading: an 'outrage' article isn't an article written by an outraged person, it's an article written to make you feel outraged. I really wish people understood this :)
He’s supposed to look normal because this man’s wife had just died and had been sick for three years so after she died (and the nurse gave James The Letter), He broke and associated when she got sick is when she died (to James she died his eyes, when she got sick) it’s a messed up story.
Mary wrote Laura a letter before she died. Yet, Laura stated that she had to steal the letter from the nurses locker Something about that makes me wonder about Laura
They still made jill ugly. I can't imagine the butchering they would do to sheva if they remake 5. They are going to turn sheva one of the most attractive video game characters of all time into alloy from HFW.
@@latinaparfait she's very attractive imo, and she's femenine. Her personality is the only thing that's changed. Imagine if it was an western studio. She'd be hideous
There are people that still have some sort of hope in this game? If it even gets made, that is. Anyway, they are changing a lot of things, the male protagonist killing his wife? Nope, the female protagonist being a whore? Nope, one of the other protagonists becoming a murderer because of "fat-shaming"? Nope. And I wouldnt be surprised of they completely remove Angela.
Exactly. Movie and gaming audiences are so desensitized to plot twists and reveals due to the rapid explosion of such media during those twenty-and-counting years that it's going to be almost impossible to bring in the shock factor in the same fashion was it was done so many years ago.
The fact is developing a Silent Hill title whether original or a remake, is like looking for life in the universe, while it makes perfect sense creatively and financially, we just have no reason to believe it can be done anymore. After Silent Hills was canceled you have to understand the mentality, remaking Silent Hill 2 comes with a real threat of danger, messing up Silent Hill 2 remake would not only likely produce death threats from crazed fans but it would rightfully be career ending for any developer taking up the task. It’s not something you want to fail if you took up the responsibility, it would require years of work from some of the most brilliant people in the industry, that are not afraid to go to those corners of human consciousness and scare people . While some will be appalled of your creation, the spoils in terms of artistic value, financial gain, the educational value, these games have always tried to push people into the world of psychology and more. There’s so much to gain on so many levels if we can find a team that can expand the Silent Hill IP. I know Bloober can do it if they keep re examining everything, and honoring the original game to the fullest, as well as their own ideas. It wouldn’t hurt to find and bring some old school passionate fans in just to juggle ideas
Bloober Team is led by a bunch of idiots,everyone is worried about this remake then they say they will make this game for "modern audiences" something that will piss some people off just hearing this. I'm cautiously optimistic with this game since Silent Hill 2 is one of my favorite games of all time but i don't have much faith on Bloober making this game after The Medium.
Silent Hill is one of the few gamea I played twice. First I got the in water ending, then I did the secret Rebirth ending too which is also fascinating to experience.
I think the story will definitely be predictable for a lot of people but that’s dependent on how many stories that person has experienced, whether it’s through books, movies, games etc. I remember watching Primal Fear at age 10 and having my mind blown by its story. Whereas watching Jacbob’s Ladder at 28 I found it to be completely uninteresting because I knew what the ending would be 5 minutes in and even understood the blatant way they announced it during his massage
I've only played Silent Hill 2 as a grown up, so it can't be the nostalgia speaking when I say it's one of the best gaming experience I've ever had, and the game itself stood apart from everything else I've played, ever since. Though I remember that I HATED playing it, as I was very bad at it - I didn't know you can kick fallen monsters to death, so imagine how much I suffered trying to kill the straight-jackets with the downward melee attack: it was almost always a chore and a damage exchange between us. I also didn't know there was a health level above the green one (full health is almost blue, I think), so I've spent almost the entire game not completely healed up and always holding on to healing items (as Mayo pointed out, by the end I had way too much ammo and health). You can guess how lost I felt, and how frustrating it was to wander around with difficult enemies in every corner. Even though the gameplay felt a struggle, I felt it completely fit the tone, and an atmosphere such as that I've never felt again. My ending was "In Water", and the impact of Angel's Thanatos drumming n' riffing while I reflected on the whole experience, consolidated that ending as the canon, and the game in my heart. My younger brother never played the original, and I fear so much that the remake won't give to him a similar experience I had back then. Mayo's hope to be wrong resonates deep within.
Nothing nostalgic about any of that. Tons if people, young and old, have found and greatly enjoyed SH2 these past 20 years. That being said, unless you skipped reading the manual, and didn't play the (IMO superior) SH1 first, not knowing how to kick fallen foes is a pretty bad fuckup.
@@GugureSux don't know about any manual haha yeah you're right, but bear with me: I think the 1st enemy you kill on normal doesn't get back up, so you don't really need to learn the "stomping enemies" action. After the 1st fight, I tried a lot of combinations to see the "moveset" of the weapon, but the stomp attack is not prompted unless there's a downed enemy, so again, the game fails to properly show there's such an action as stomping downed enemies. Finally, the 1st weapon does have an attack that hits enemies while they're down, so I intuitively thought that was how you're supposed to attack them when they fall. I know it's a fuck-up, but I insist the game shares a part of the blame for not explaining it properly, and looking back, I'm actually glad I didn't find out and struggled through the game, I have only fond memories of that experience of hardship
There is no such thing as a "Modern Audience". Just an audience. People who enjoyed Silent Hill 2 originally were not part of the main stream, they were gamers, back in a time when gaming was still a niche thing. Companies need to realize they will never please everyone, and work towards making the best game they can, and in the case of a remake, that means making it as true to the source material as possible.
... I basically looked at Silent Hill 2 and thought James was deserving of forgiveness when I was younger. I now realise how complex the endings actually are thanks to you. Thanks for sharing this perspective I didn't realise existed up until now. What a gem of a game.
I haven't watched the video yet, but presuming this is what I THINK it's talking about hard agree. See, in little over 20 years, SH2 went from a wholly unique title to the single most contemporary piece of art in its own field. Whenever you see an obnoxiously titled indie horror game named after some mental illness and has a plot about self reflection or the character's damaged psyche, well congrats, that is Silent Hill 2's fault. It is the biggest case of "Suffering frim success" that I can think of; the game was so influential that two decades later the market is still trying to copy it. Silent Hill 2's plot is no longer unique, there are simply too many copycats at this point. That said, it does do its plot better than any of its "successors", but it's hard to ignore the ill effects of its popularity, even within its own franchise. Because the copycatting didn't stop with indie devs. In the following years you began seeing Pyramid Head/Red Pyramid Thing make appears in games like Silent Hill Homecoming, Book of Memories and even the movies, all places that character never belonged or had a purpose in. Games like Homecoming and Downpour tried to ride off SH2's themes of guilt and expository formula both to lesser effect. The games that weren't trying to be the next Silent Hill 2 were instead trying to reboot Silent Hill 1 between Origins and Shattered Memories. And at the heart of it all was Konami, the people making all the decisions and greenlighting all of this. So with a Silent Hill 2 Remake coming along, naturally my biggest concern is Bloober Team, who are both known for NOT making Survival Horror and their proclivity towards bad mental health plots, is going to reinterpret the game into what THEY want it to be. We can already see snippits of that in the reveal where James goes from an empty shell of a man to sad faced agony man dropping to his knees with all the charisma of soap opera acting. The subtlety that made the game famous is BEING compromised right before our eyes and Konami has failed fans of this franchise many, MANY times before. I'm not inclined to believe any of this was done in good faith. Especially not when they LITERALLY came out and TOLD us (during the same presentation) that the SH2 Remake is a MOVIE TIE-IN GAME. For those that didn't know, yes they admitted to this and it went under most people's radar because it was during a segment without any gameplay or footage on screen and the devs were just chatting. This game is already a farce and I think Bloober knows what kind of pressure they are under considering they have since renounced their interest in "Psychological Horror" and are now interested in "Mass Market Horror" AKA games like FNAF, Bendy, and Poppy Playtime. Let me be clear, I am not worried about this game failing. It'd be faaaaar from the first time around that block. What I AM afraid of is this game getting turned into streamer bait, something Konami seemingly WANTS, and this game doing what the first movie did by rewriting the game's history. Because you and I both know we're going to see a bunch of "Silent Hill Experts" after this game comes out; slack jawed idiots who never played any of the other games and ignored this franchise for its entire life cycle until it became briefly popular through a remake and they used it as a chance to get more streamer cred. That is GOING to happen, let's be real. Post Viewing Edit: Personally, while the topic of which ending is cannon has always been up for grabs, I think the "Good" ending is the best. While the In Water ending is potentially fitting and the other endings are interesting at the very least, the Good Ending not only reveals the most about what was truly going through James's mind but also the most self reflection. It isn't all happy, but it IS healthy. He's being honest with himself for the first time in the entire game and you get to see that his actions weren't entirely motivated by malice, just a very tired and conflicted man who got put in a situation that is all too common for couples suffering from things like early dementia or other mental ailments. Yeah, he smothers Mary but she also wanted to die and condoned the action. James merely did it for the wrong reasons; not out of love, but out of escapism. And for him that was the last time he ever got to truly speak to her, he tarnished his most important memory of the person he married. The idea of him fully accepting the responsibility of his actions and listening to Mary when she tells him to go on with his life is REALLY inspiring, hands down one of the most thoughtful endings in a game that I have ever experienced. You get to see the full scope of the human condition and someone rise past it, even potentially carry out that responsibility by taking in the little girl Mary wanted them to adopt. In some small way, he is carrying on her wishes.
Great comment, and I agree completely about the endings. The "In Water" ending never felt satisfying for me, since it seems odd for James to overcome his guilt, represented by the PH fight, only to off himself anyhow. It just never felt right to me. What I find incredibly mind-breaking is watching fans bicker about which is the "canon" ending. It strikes me as an entirely inane concept, and one which would only be relevant if the game had a direct sequel, which it did not. In my view, the canon ending is the one you get. That's how your story ends. If someone died in the PH boss fight and they said screw this game and never touched it again, then that's how their story ends, with James unable to overcome his guilt. If I get the "Leave" ending and someone tries telling me that "In Water" is the true canon ending, they're basically telling me that my experience with the game was invalid, it wasn't "real." That's not how art works.
@@balthazor44 Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I think cannon endings are fine, but I feel like people get a little too fired up about which one it is. I sorta see the reason in it given endings can often be ranked in terms of their quality, but Silent Hill is not a series known for followups beyond Silent Hill 3, so whatever ending you think James deserved or should have gotten really is just that. It's a personal thing. I love the brutal nihilism of the In Water ending, Leave is wholesome and shows rare but impactful character growth, the Mary ending shows what happens when James fails to learn from past mistakes and embraces his vices, and then of course DOG is there for the sake of comedy. The people involved with the project have made it an important note that there is no true cannon ending to this game beyond what the player favors so that's the guideline I follow.
Ik some things are going to be cut but I really hope they keep the Maria ending in the game. It is by far my favorite bad ending in all of gaming because of the weight behind it. Not to mention that final line when James says "you better do something about that cough" still sends chills down my spine
Great video and interesting take. I feel like the most important part of Silent Hill 2 is the atmosphere and if they can replicate that, the remake should be fine. I disagree that the predictability of the story will tarnish the new players experience. I think any new player will be more focused on the environment, the atmosphere and what horrors are coming next - due to it being completely new to them, just like it was to us when we first played the game. I just can’t see someone playing a Silent Hill game for the first time and writing it off based on the fact that the twist may be foreseeable early in the game for horror game/ veterans.
I'm not saying they will write it off though. Like I said, there's more parts of the storytelling that are important. I'm saying the experience will be lessened if things are too obvious. The revelation near the end is an important part of the experience.
If only real people can see the whole picture instead of labeling and calling someone a "bad guy" or following the crowd via social media. Any of us can probably become a murder to much worse when we can't take it anymore. Or cannot bare the suffering.
It's easier to give negative opinions than positive ones. For some, anyway Many purposely choose to refer to labels rather than see the bigger picture because it's easier that way. Especially if you want to pass cruel opinions right feom the start
@@SamuelBlack84 that's really funny when they're fine with putting others down but only wanting postive validation aka "good vibes only" but fine with others suffering or being labeled all long as it isn't them or who they consider close enough to not deserve it.
I think you may be spot on. The only thing I think may be contentious is your take one whether or not it actually is Mary in the game as that aspect is unclear. It's not unreasonable to assume the town has the power to bring her back, it's just unclear if that is the case or if the Mary we see is just another manifestation. But that's lore autism for guys like us to argue over later. What's important is what you pointed out here: can modern audiences handle a character who is not outright good or evil, but is just simply a human being? Everyone these days filters information thru their own political ideology (myself included), even when we are talking about a story that is not about politics or ideology or even philosophy, but just about being a human. However, I think this also worth noting: I recently watched a younger person experience this game for the first time (a vtuber formerly known as "Pikamee"), someone who was born after this game's heyday. And here's the thing: she _got_ it. She understood what the game was going for and how it worked and everything and it was amazing watching someone's reaction to this heartbreaking story. She didn't descend into sensationalization or hyperbole, she didn't hyperfocus on one aspect of the story or character, she didn't morally grandstand. She _understood_ it all and _hit_ _her_ _hard_ . What's the point of mentioning this? It's this: I think that we tend to hyperfocus ourselves on the status climbers and ideologically driven journalists. The disingenuous cunts who are seeking to built clout within their niche group and with that hyperfocus on them, we tend to convince ourselves that this is the mainstream when in reality, I think most ppl get it and love the story as much as we did back then for the same reasons. The concern comes in with whether the devs understand that our if they will bow to pressure of a loud minority who only have as much power as you allow them. Only time will tell, here. As for me, personally, tho, I've been burned enough to know that it best to be cautiously optimistic here and even then, that's only cuz they have Masahiro Ito back on the project.
James as a character is so straight forward yet so layered that its so easy that he'll be mischaracterized. Like what you said in the video, unless you've personally had someone close to you suffer from a terminal illness, you'd know and understand how it affects you emotionally and mentally. Silent Hill 2, as a whole, is meant to be a literal guilt trip. The "best" part about it, is how further in the story it makes you question if James really came to Silent Hill to find Mary or he had an ulterior motive to come to Silent Hill to make peace with himself and take his own life. But the game goes about in a way that it blurs that line and instead shows us first hand how lost in his own delusions he is in order to I guess "cope". Even the mirror scene at the beginning, how everyone is complaining how he should look based on his facial expression. If he should be anxious, sad, or both, but nobody talks about the small details about his mannerisms too such as how he touches his face or bites his lip as a possible grounding technique and how it sort of makes a big difference between the two iterations. It tells us either he's contemplating going through with what he's about to do, or if this is his only shot at redemption for closure. We never knew the kind of person James was before Mary was sick and we were never meant to. I love that it is left in our hands to interoperate that and decide his fate, and on top of that, you'd really have to go out of your way to control that narrative just to get a different ending based on what we think he deserves. He's by no means a perfect person, in fact very flawed, which makes him seem so "real". Whether that is a result of what he went through with Mary, or if he's always been that way is unclear. Its so hard to recapture or to even adapt how James is in different mediums because everyone can perceive his character differently. Which is why both adaptations are doomed to fail regardless. Its the best game in the series, but it ruined how we view Silent Hill in some aspects that only reduces it to romanticizing how grief and trauma affects people in such a negative way (COUGH COUGH short message COUGH COUGH) and it only works in its own secluded story which keeps all the wacky cult stuff so far in the background you don't notice it. It serves as not only a great sequel, but a great side story that is almost completely detached from its predecessor aside from its setting. over all I think SH 2 is untouchable. Its story and characters can never be replicated or even come close to how they were depicted in the original game and that even trying to do so does it just a great disservice. Great video, and great take. I too hope I'm proven wrong.
Came back to this video after seeing the new gameplay trailer, they completely ruined Maria, Anglea and James and are missing the point of what made sh2 great completely
@@underthemayo yeah she does, she looks like shit in the remake compared to her original version, btw will you be doing a video on the new gameplay or nah I'm curious to see what you think of everything in the new gameplay they had to show personally I don't like it Also love your videos dude I like how you keep it real
One interesting thing they could try to do is give the player more obvious choices throughout the game that determine which ending you get. I think in the original game some of the things you had to do to influence the ending were a bit too ambiguous and if you are unaware of the mechanics behind it you could easily end up with any of the three main endings. Maybe there can be more dialogue options and choices along the way. I think that could make the game even more complex and let the players decide for themselves if they think that James deserves forgiveness or not.
I feel like I’m going insane hearing responses from the fanbase. Like not only do I feel like barely anyone is making reasonable interpretations anymore, but also every side of every argument demonizes the other while barely even knowing how to type. I understand that SH fans were already kinda weird and could be pretentious but now with the new era of fans ushered in it feels like a warzone full of smart asses. The reasonable thing to do with this new game is to be reluctantly open to a reinterpretation. That being said it’s being done by a team that’s arguably not suited and already has aspects of their new product that don’t fit the important themes of the old product. People love to bash the voice acting of sh2 but they like to leave out that the main cast primarily consists of violent mentally ill criminals. Nobody ever says Maria or Mary has bad voice acting because she as a character is talking in right mind. James and Angela in their first scene just meet each other after committing very intimate murders. Like of course they are going to sound weird they are fucking weirdos. The best part about james(and Guy Cihi’s) voice acting is that he’s a pretty accurate representation of someone depersonalized and in a state of psychosis(which is a very reasonable interpretation of the events of the game). The sad boy face of new James puts a bad taste in my mouth, and just how emotive he is doesn’t seem in line with the character. I find it highly disrespectful not just to the game and the people who worked on it, but also to people who liked the voice acting to simply write it off as “bad voice acting due to limitations”. This game means a lot to a lot of people, and I’m not saying people can’t be going to far with their defense of the first game but it truly feels like the “fans” of silent hill 2 have lost what made me fall in love with the first game. Nuance
problematic is the word Problematic people uses because before those problematic people came along everything was just a matter of you like it or you ignore it.
The Problem is that today you can't write a character who is just one character. Just one particular character who happens to be the way they are. No matter what kind of character you write, people will always assume that you are making the political statement that EVERY person of that character's demographic is exactly like this. You write a character who suffers from trauma? Than that is a statement that EVERYONE who suffers from trauma is exactly like this character, as an example. Its annoying and drives me nuts.
SH 2 might be one of the most memorable games I've played and definitely one that deeply resonate with me. For years I've been a vocal advocate against any remake. With the rumors growing, and the trailer finally releasing, my skepticism only has been proved right. I have zero faith in Bloober Team, especially with the first few images we got. I agree with everything you pointed out. I also hope the damages will be limited to how the story is told, and not the story itself. Any form of censorship would be detrimental to the experience.
Its funny how you hit the mark but still missed it somehow. Most of the people who played it were kids or teenagers with very little literary experience. They didn't have the knowledge of similar stories that were already being told in other mediums. It doesn't say anything about Silent Hill 2, and says everything about the past knowledge of the player.
That's what I said. We weren't used to these kinds of stories, and we were young. Both points were said. Kids today are binging tiktoks on mental health. They're way more attuned to this stuff now.
@underthemayo I disagree. The new generation will be just as surprised as ours was. They don't have the depth of literary knowledge we do now. The same way the older people did when we were kids. Most reviewers these days seem to be oblivious to the cycles of storytelling. Most stories have already been told, you just might not have read that particular one yet. It all gets pretty samey and you have to appreciate it for what it is, and not be disappointed that you already knew the story beats because you've seen this story 10 times already. I don't know if you watch anime but it's the easiest example. If you've seen a battle Shonen, you've practically seen them all. Your first one will always be legendary, and you'll be disappointed the rest of them just copied your favorite.
You stumbled on one of the bigger problems with western SH games. These people are aware of series themes. They just have no idea that there's meaning to them. They see them as fun little easter eggs to throw the fans and not intentionally placed elements meant to steer the player in a specific direction. People are so fucking quick to assume team silent had no idea what they were doing. Like they accidentally pumped out 3 hits in a row, while working for a company that was actively working against them.
Silent Hill's 2 story is honestly very triggering for me based on personal experience - but it's one I do come back to. When James said "I want my life back" - that's how I felt when my dad was dying. Life changed, I was losing my only remaining parent, and I wanted things to go back how they were. There were many times I was woken up hearing him moaning out in pain as I watched him slowly die - and I even had thoughts of wanting to kill him to make his suffering stop. I love my dad. I miss him. Life feels like it stopped since he's been gone and I have not had familial support to help me through this loss. I did not want my dad to die, even if dark thoughts came into mind to stop that suffering and selfish thoughts of "I want my life back". Of course I did not kill him but that does not stop the anguish and grief that I felt strongly reinstating with a character like James - which is devoid of most personality so it's even easier to put oneself into that situation. The story is complicated and does trigger trauma I have not dealt with, but it draws me in because of it's familiarity to how complicated reality is. I can't even say Silent Hill 2 was ahead of its time but more perfect for its time because I cannot imagine any video game hitting this story in the open ended "you get to decide how you feel about it" way coming anywhere close. Everything feels safe and watered down and I don't feel the current gaming industry trusts its audience to think for themselves.
Sorry to hear this. My dad died mercifully quick of his illness but I was still maddened by the hoarse moaning sounds of pain. I feared they would replace every memory of him.
Honestly still surprised they didn't go with remaking the first Silent Hill where i think that one truly needed a remake..im most curious with the combat and story aspects with the SH2 remake..
I honestly cant wait for this game to drop and have the community be at war from each other. OG Fans who will heavily critique the game for not being faitfhful from the source material and questionable choices the devs made vs. the "modern audience" who will absolutely eat this game up and defend it to their graves. Much like how they did it with the RE 2, 3 and 4 remake. Its going to give me good drama so I'll make me some popcorn or a sandwich with MAYO on it while I watch the rest in chaos 😂
I just want to see the prison cut scene that will tell us everything, in the original the voice actor for both Maria and Mary transitions between both there personalities in what has to be the best acting in gaming then there's the little things how she starts the scene sitting crossed legged sitting lady like and when it ends she has her legs wide open, i mean we already got a taste of that scene redone in the HD collection where the new voice actress voices both Mary and Maria the same, like a sex line worker.
Agreed. I said this somewhere else too, people often criticize the acting in SH2, and fair enough, but I hate to see Monica Taylor Horgan swept under that same rug, because she was fantastic. The scene you mention is a great one, and of course there's the letter at the end. Overall she's wonderful throughout, maybe the best video game performance I've ever heard, especially from that era.
I'm getting the feeling that because it was showcased on the playstation thing that Maria, a sexualized version of his homely and sickly wife Mary is going to be totally covered. that's going to be total bullshit because that is literally apart of the story and a important part of the plot. James is mentally twisted, guilty and several other things. His whole version of silent hill that he sees is based on this. they should stick to it.
I don't think so. I think it will be pushed to show how bad a person James was and wanted another woman. Twisted? It took his desires, insecurities and twisted them.
Sadly I already saw the reaction you talked about the moment it was announced that bloober team was handling the remake .I realy hope they don't listen, but I won't hold my breath. also kotaku's stupidity never cease to amaze.
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Despite of the fact that you said in your last video, you can't say anything new about the Silent Hill games that hasn't been said, in this video you've done a great job of providing a new and interesting perspective on SH2
@@Nathan-CroftYh I never considered that SH2 was a product of its time. Came out in the right gaming era
Good job deleting the replies btw.
@@Nathan-Croft thanks it just recently came to me. While the last video completed last January.
Oh, thank God I'm not alone in this concern, God I hope they don't fuck the story up for m'modern audiences...
Predicting the twist is not the deal breaker, it is how the whole story is told and presented what really matters
Exactly. I didn't even think about it as twist. Also it could be many other things. That he left her to die but didn't kill himself or just cheated on her, or that she is still alive.
i understand where is coming from but yeah definitely agree with u. i remember when i played soma i predicted the ending very quickly but it still haunts me to this day just due to how well written, acted, etc it was
@@softwinters4544 Soma is great. I often think about Silent Hill and Soma in the same row.
@@softwinters4544 I predicted the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. twist and I loved the twist jus the same because the storytelling and game atmosphere was done right.
@@softwinters4544good point
This is a small detail, but it's been annoying me. The new James facial expression looks bad. He just looks sad all the time, like he's about to cry. That wasn't the point of his character in the beginning. The original James was seemingly emotionless, empty, disconnected as he touched his face in the rest stop to prove to himself that he's not dreaming. Like he's not caught in a nightmare. He buried those feelings of despair and guilt, which start to surface organically as the story evolved and became manifested in horrifying ways. The new James is looking like he is about to burst into tears or scream at the drop of a hat. I think it's giving too much away and missing the point of the original James and the original story of SH2.
Exactly.
THANK YOU, people keep saying that James' face was just emotionless because it's a ps2 game, they don't get it...
I just think that the new James face looks contorted and strange. He is ugly as sin....
@@mickaokiji The point is going right over their heads. James is supposed to be an empty man who has no concern for his safety and is pushing down his emotions, only for them to surface in terrifying ways. He's a mystery in the beginning of the story. We're not supposed to know of his mental state right off the bat. And the argument of "dated graphics is why he seems emotionless" can be dismissed when the player actually pays attention to the dialogue. And I just have to say, those dated graphics still hold up today, in my opinion. They were amazing at the time.
@@Hesykast I agree 100%
The fact is blooper should have started with remaking the first game. It would have been perfect for learning from any mistakes, because SH1 is not the most popular game. And it would have even benefited the story for SH2, establishing that standard of saving the missing girl. Remaking SH2 is only the way to make the most money the fastest.
Agreed. I'm quite surprised they just skipped over the first one which really needed a remake imo but instead went with the most *popular* of the SH games I guess...
Konami employees suggested 1 but the head said nah let's do 2
you're right
It's the most popular game in Japan, just not in the West. SH2 was done because they are marketing to the West and they get more revenue from the West. Thus, why they are willing to again put it in the hands of Western devs and allow modernization to take place with it.
Yea, i also wandered way not start with the first considering is the most outdated one, that really needs the remake treatment . That would have been smarter imo , try with the first , see what the reception is , if is worth to make the second as well or learned from mistakes and have the second be that much better .
I hope it turns out good , but i have a felling it won't compere at all as a remake to RE4 and DS . At the very least still be a SH2 experience how you would expect if not that impressive as a remake .
I think the new team might miss the influence of David Lynch, the off tone and odd behaviors of David Lynch’s movies/characters was a major influence on SH2, with some scenes directly inspired from Blue Velvet, the bloober team trailer comes off as melodramatic compared to odd and subdued/eerie like the original SH2 trailer
@Juniper_Wippersnache I thought (surprisingly) Shattered Memories got pretty close too
Twin Peaks has a very similar style soundtrack aswell. It's incredible how you can combine the kind of groovy and relaxing atmosphere with something legitimately terrifying.
@@eka437You're both wrong lmao. SH2 is EASILY the most lynchian. SH4 is mildy Lynchian and Shattered Memories was a very far cry from anything Lynchian.
Which parts are explicitly inspired by Blue Velvet? I can see pieces of Mulholland Dr and Lost Highway, but not blue velvet, other than the closet scene.
Also, the original was heavily influence by the 1990 psychological horror masterpiece Jacob's Ladder, no not the atrocious remake. Silent Hill 3 references Jacob's Ladder directly with the Bergen St. subway station.
Even negating the surprise factor, if the story is changed or censored to appease “modern sensibilities”, then the remake automatically fails. Though based on the complete lack of subtlety we’ve seen so far, I think it already has.
I’m purely looking to this remake as a curiosity. The fact that we have the PC Enhanced Edition means that the perfect version of this game already exists. I have low hopes for it
@@mattmas6628indeed, the way I look at it, best case scenario we get Peter Jackson's King Kong: a decent retelling of the story that's worth watching, but not as good as the original. Worst case scenario we get the 1976 King Kong: an embarrassing trainwreck that's quickly forgotten.
The "modern sensibilities" excuse for altering a story in a remake or adaptation always seems to an open floodgate for game designers to take unnecessary liberties with details within the story, even allowing them to go as far as to insert their own personal ideological undertones or censor things that never needed to be censored
I've never understood why when something offends someone instead of just avoiding it, they go out of their way to destroy it. Being offended doesn't give anyone automatic power to mould the world as they see fit because it's the first step toward facism
Exactly. Either you nail the story right or you don't get it at all. It's like if they remade the God Father in 2025 and took out the gritty mob murders, betrayal and scandal. It wouldn't be the God Father, it be a day time soap opera.
I think too much importance is placed on the 'twist' in SH2. The story isn't great BECAUSE of the twist. It's great because it's a detailed, complex character study. SH2's story can still work even if you know the 'twist', because the imagery and symbolism is actually the best part, along with the moments highlighting James and Mary's relationship. Big twists were a hot trend back in the early 2000's, but placing so much importance on a singular moment of reveal in a story will always have diminishing returns. Yet people always return to SH2, because even knowing the twist, the story is still full of amazing, nuanced character moments. The world is still full of strange imagery and metaphors.
In that regard, I think a SH2 story retold today could still work. Just place less importance on the twist. Scrap the TV scene completely and just let the revelation happen through tiny moments in the environment and in dialogue. Like how Angela's story is told. Which is an amazing story that doesn't require an 'all is revealed' moment.
Agreed. Quite unfortunate how Silent Hill 2's twist has been the ball and chains of the series ever since. Or at least ever since Konami handed the franchise over to Western studios.
There's more to the franchise than the main character having some serious mental baggage we'll learn about in act 3.
I also think the twist of James killing Mary is not the only "twist." If it was the only important aspect of the story, then the reason why would not matter. James killing Mary as an act of selfishness, not mercy, is what was most impactful, especially given that throughout the story he is shown to be head over heals for her.
very much this (at least for me). The twist is largely irrelevant. You figure out something isn't right with James pretty quickly. The fact that HE did it isn't all that interesting. It's everything surrounding it. Why he did it, why Maria looks the way she does, why the monsters look they way they do, etc. Even the endings past the twist- how he deals and copes with the revelations of what he has suppressed and lied to himself about - what he has done and why- are super compelling.
@@Omn1c1d3 agree agree agree. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Exactly. Silent Hill is enthralling because the whole game, the mechanics, the soundtrack, the environment, the monster design, tells a story. The plot and dialogue if anything, clarify things. But the bulk of the character studies happen with the details in the game.
"A guy whose wife died three years ago should not look like this right now," puts it perfectly.
idk bro imagine if your wife died 3 years ago and you got a letter from her. I think pretty much everyone would look as equally distraught.
@@drpantydropper229I would think it was a tasteless prank and look pissed of instead :p
@@reakefit7304Right? Like if you seen the body, said goodbye to it, bury or burn it and suddenly you received a letter from said dead spouse you have every right to get mad and hunt down the tasteless prankster.
@Zminator1986 you do realize theres never been 3 years right? This story starts literally 3 days after he kills her. James just went insane and lost track of time. Theres even rumors that Marys body was in the car all along.
Why not? Some people don't get over things ever. He could be a miserable alcoholic for all we know.
15:38 "You'd better do something about that cough" that's definitely a threat
Yup, his voice is very sinister here.
I’ve been paralyzed for 4 years, I’ve seen my family go through every emotion. They at first had no change to their emotions, then the got angry, then depressed, sad, and still to this day HAVENT come to complete acceptance but I don’t blame them. I can’t imagine my parents seeing their child almost die, hooked up to tubes, in constant agony. I can’t imagine how my cousins felt. And one of my closest friends thinks he could’ve stopped it somehow and it worsened his alcoholism. I saw him feel so much guilt and despair, it broke his mind for a long time. I wish I never got myself into the mess, for all the pain I feel, it’s worse seeing the ones you live in pain than yourself.
Thank you for sharing this.
I hope you’re doing well.
“James..if that were true, then why do you look so sad?” This line always make me tear up. It summarizes exactly how I felt when I watched my father slowly die painfully. He was so difficult to deal with because he was still guilt tripping me for not achieving his expectations even though he had not provided any support for it. I felt like I was dealing with a bad boss and I wanted to get away. It was also awful seeing someone who is so vibrant shrink slowly into a bag of bones…Silent Hill 2’s accurate representation of this resentment developing between the patient and their loved ones as they realize that there is nothing but hopelessness ahead, is what makes this story so haunting, relatable, and timeless. That Kotaku article absolutely missed the point and it is an insult to the whole team who translated these complex yet inherent feelings into a work of art.
Sorry, thought you were referencing the "Jame is a villain article: Polygon"
I'm pretty sure there were leaks about this game being adapted to "Modern Audiences" and Bloober Team saying that they gonna make Silent HIll 2 as they envisioned the game back when they played.
These are the famous last words for any media in development. Let's just hope they will make a good survival horror game.
" Bloober team" Enough said. Expect mediocre at best
LOL I wish a dev team would say they are remaking the game for anachronistic audiences. Fuck modern audiences.
@@fernan2342exactly
@@fernan2342
To be fair, this is a tall order even for a large studio.
I think Silent Hill 2 also deserves praise for blurring the line between "it's all in the head" and "it happened for real" under the justification that the town itself was using his psyche to torture him. Most story and design elements can be justified as coming from James' mind, but if that were the only case, there was no way he would be able to gain access to places like Heaven's Night which are heavily locked up and which only Maria can open. Similarly, the roads have huge gaps and scaffolds (their origin is never explained) which James physically cannot go trough and force him to take specific routes to get to the hotel as a way to bring back the memories he has of his time with Mary to punish him. It's kind of similar to the part where Nicole opens the door in Dead Space, which forces you to consider that possibly it wasn't just "it was all in the head."
.
My biggest fear is that theyll water down or just ruin angela in the remake. The original handled the dark and sad undertones so perfectly. Its real life issues and real life situations and the game paid respect to that. If they ruin angela in the remake i will be legitimately heart broken. The modern audience thing is making me so nervous. Sh2 tackled a lot of uncomfortable dark stuff
(Critical Drinker Voice)
MODERN AUDIENCES
@@fojisan2398 Ah yes, Critical Drinker. That right-wing douche with the media literacy of a 10 year old.
I want a dev to say "fuck modern audiences, we will do this game with absolutly freedom, we dont need twitter approval"
Silent hill 2 contains so many uncomfortable subjects, but that's what made it unsettling. I want a remake that's better gameplay and graphic wise. Any changes to the original story or scenes/monsters and ill be heartbroken.
@@Tswift819 the best thing they can do is, maintain/tell the same story but with some extras or with more deep on some subjects, also improve the gamepley cuz the original gameplay was horrible n i played it long ago n still remember how "heavy" james felt to move...
Ito had was told that the nurse monsters showed to much skin...
"Yeah the representation of james' repressed libido and guilt, in a game where sex and death are the central themes of monster design, is showing to much skin."
Ito is the least reliable imo. The guy also says pyramid heads interaction with the nurses doesn't have any sexual component. He even copy that same scene from Blue Velvet and is an abusing "sexual" scene. His in denial, just like james.
@@Chris-ko7ovhe's the fucking creator of Pyramid Head, lol. Whatever he says is canon, is *canon*, period.
@@guilhermefioresi7538 You seem to not know or follow Ito then, he's have had controversy for contradicting himself and the series multiple times. I dont care anyways, I'm just saying hes not the best at explaining things, maybe it's a language thing. Or maybe he just doesn't get the full picture because when you create a game division of labour exists, Sato would not be in lign with what Ito said about the nurses, since Death and Sex is one of the key components of SH2, and I get Sato more than I get Ito.
It’s a shame that a game which came out when I was a teenager expected us to be more adult, but the remake and the media now pretend to be mature while imposing an infantile outlook.
"You'd better do something about that cough" made me LOL.
Shows how little he cared about his wifes illness in that ending
i have always thought all the sexual “frustration” stuff in the game is james just beating himself down for just having one thought about another woman while he was at the hospital. and he is just tormenting himself the entire game for just having that thought not that he was “horny” or something stupid
Yes, exactly, sexuality is a part of being human. There's no indication James had an affair, so I agree it's all the guilt caused by his biological urges, being a man in his mid 20's who's not been able to have sex with his wife for a year or two.
Absolutely, just the fact that he sees Pyramid head being a murderous brute and sexual deviant definitely shows he hates this side of himself.
Originally the sexual frustration theory was meant to get across the idea James was faithful to his wife and thus bottled up his sexual feelings whilst she was fuckin' dying, so it came out as monsters that represented his desire and inability to bone.
Eventually this somehow became "James is a misogynist" because people are fucking stupid.
@@enderdefender7406 Masahiro Ito already told that he didn't meant for Pyramid Head to do anything sexual at all.
@@mdjey2 That doesn't really matter given what's in the actual game. Artist intent is cool to talk about and bring up, but ultimately it is inherent that all art speaks for itself.
This video aged like fine wine, just found out that sweet baby inc will be involved in the remake, it's over, the game is DOA.
if any ending would be the ''canon'' ending, it would be the leave ending for me. James killing himself doesn't make sense to me after his cutscene with the 2 pyramid heads, were he finally gains the courage to want to life and no longer wishes to be punished for his sins (thus the 2 pyramid heads kill themselves).
plus he also fulfills Mary's last wish, and adopts laura. which seems like a much better way to atone for one sins, then simply killing themselves.
It's awesome how everyone seems to have their own personal interpretation of the story and how it should end. I think the In Water ending could still be understandable considering what the player must do to acheive it. According to the Silent Hill forum, to get this ending the player must examine Angela's knife, read the second message at Bar Neely's , read the diary at the top of the hospital, listen to the headphones and hallway conversation at the Hotel, and keep James' life low. The knife puts the thought of suicide into James' head. The bar message gives the idea that James could reunite with Mary in the afterlife, but James would most likely go to Hell while Mary resides in Heaven. The headphone conversation, hallway conversation, and hospital diary are reminders of Mary and her illness. And having James' life low indicated that he is weak and on the verge of death. I could see the Pyramid Head fight as a battle of acceptance over his sins, and his suicide in Toluca Lake has his way of atonement since that is what was drilled into his head from the previous actions(which is interesting because to get the Leave ending the player must do actions that lead James to think of what Mary would've wanted, examine Mary's photo and letter, get James' health high, don't spend time with Maria, and listen to the headphone and hallway convo). The endings of this game are a really good executon of how what the player decides to do affects the narrative.
I tend to disagree; James was reckless the entire game, not caring about danger, jumping into giant holes with no way of knowing if it was safe - he didn't seem to care about his safety or life - I don't see him caring about his well being thus him killing himself in the end makes perfect sense to me. But I love the discussion around how everyone sees the endings and the events differently and I don't see the game has having any "right" or even "wrong" ending - just what you personally see and understand it. I do see your perspective and while it isn't my understanding I do see the logical reasoning. I do find him adopting the girl to be more sickening than heartfelt though; I could not imagine the potential trauma of being raised by someone who told you he murdered what was a friend / mother figure to you, and James is in hardly a position from my own personal outlook to be raising a child.
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@@kellevichyfor me, the leave ending seems to be a more pleasing ending to me, carrying his guilt while going on with his life instead of ending it all in the water ending as if he was too far gone from redemption.
Unfortunately, we know James' fate in The Room, as his father says he went missing. The official stance was In Water was the true ending. James faced himself in the end, but that did not mean he forgave himself and left himself with just the desire to be with Mary again. It would be tragic, but consider the emotional impact reading the letter as just the gamer, then think of how that effected James. He would not register her wanting him to live and move one, but only see what was lost.
I'd prefer the Leave ending too, so you know.
Psycho absolutely still works today. Having seen both Psycho and played SH2 for the first time a few years ago, of course I was able to predict what was really going on, but that didn't make it any less tense or engaging, because they are both subtle, masterfully crafted works of art with a lot more to their stories than just the reveal at the end.
Bloober team is simply incapable of subtlety, and stories like Psycho and SH2 live and breathe in subtlety. That's why the remake is going to fail, because of misguided execution, not because the twist is dated.
Mayo hasn’t seen bates motel I assume lol 😂
If you can see the twist early you are able to look for small details that work for it
@@daskampffredchen Yes, this is exactly what makes re-visiting psychological stories like this so rewarding even if you know what's coming, you can pick up on the essential details you may have missed the first time.
@@TheNwahDango Yeah. In Silent Hill you can see metaphores in the enemy design. Especially Pyramid Head representing his internal struggle with guilt for killing his wife. The second one only shows up after James killed Eddy. So after he took another humans life
I have. It's very good.
My grandfather was recently in the hospital for a few months. Every single day my grandmother would ask if someone would drive her there. Seeing my grandpa in worse living conditions and in worse shape day after day was increasingly getting to her. Even snapping at my mother which never happened before.
Now with James going through this for YEARS, I could only imagine the toll that takes on someone’s mind.
Except it wasn't years.
@@blumiu24263 years
@@blumiu2426 Yes 3 years to be exact. She died 3 days ago, but the disease got to her 3 years prior to the game
In other words, James considers the dates she got ill, the days she died to him
@@blumiu2426
Why do people type wrong crap and just let it sit there lol
I thought I had understood SH2's story pretty well, but this video actually gave me some new insights.
Same. Didn't know about that last boss having two different sides entirely to it.
wait till you absorb in depth story playthroughs
No matter what, we all have something to say and add to the conversation constructively and my man knocked it out of the park.
I would recommend watching the Silent Hill videos by Max Derrat. He does some pretty deep dive analysis videos that bring in everything from Eastern philosophy to Carl Jung. His are some of the best I've seen.
That's just the beauty of SH2, the world and story is so detailed and open to numerous interpretations - you always learn something new from it.
Modern audiences are not the people who will play it anyway
"Modern Audiences" aren't an actual thing that exists. The Simpsons did an excellent parody of it with Poochie.
The multiple endings of SH2 make it endlessly fascinating. More games need this open ended structure, however having only played the game once, I only knew of the multiple endings because of youtube videos. This isn't necessarily a criticism, but what it means is people probably experienced different endings randomly and without knowing that the others existed at the time the game released, so hypothetically you had large groups of people who had radically different final impressions of the game. I think this may have added to the games longevity and staying power, as its mysteries continue to be revealed to this day to players who didn't know "the whole story".
Even today people arent sure what the metrics are to get each ending
When I finished SH2 for the first time years ago, the ending I had was "María" and I thought it was canon.
But when I started a new game I was confused by having a different ending which was "Leave".
I was surprised to find out that the game has multiple endings
@@daskampffredchenI have a very good idea about those ending reqirements, and it's related to a bunch of stuff most gamers, new and old, would never even give a second thought.
Again, it’s about subtlety
Got my grandmother pass away in 2020 bcs of a hospital bacteria, I loved her, too kind of a person, I wanted her to recover, but I knew she didn't wanted to do something to try and recover, and while she suffered a little we where taking care of her till her last moments. You feel a ton of emotions bcs of "what if X happens" combined with the frustration of being tired and also bcs the person just want to let himself to dead but at the same time they still want to live, bcs the will to live is part of us. You also want them to go happy and loved before they pass. Also having no charge of conscience of not doing the right thing bcs of laziness.
Has you said, the game has a "whole" doesn't matter if the story and the way is told is not even at the same level. Even if I not even played more that 2 SH I still feel the history even if is told by other ppl in videos.
God job brother.
The concerns over how people were going to react to Eddie is kinda funny when you see what Bloober actually did to him (literally making him far more disgusting than he was in the OG game for some inexplicable reason).
On December 28, 2015, Roland King, (87), shot Rita King, (81), his wife of 50 years, in the head with his father's WWII Enfield service revolver.
Rita had spent the last 3 years with dementia and had reached the point were she did not have the ability to retain information and could only make simple decisions about eating and drinking.
Roland told staff: "I've just shot my wife. She had suffered enough."
Roland shot her because he thought *_HE_* had suffered enough.....
@@FreeOpenTruth So you are against euthanasia in any case? So if someone is just suffering and not able to use their body in any way we should let them suffer until they die of old age?
@@daskampffredchen - That's a different conversation. What he did was murder.
@@FreeOpenTruth But any form of euthanasia is also murder.
@@daskampffredchen - If the person wants to die and asks for help it's not murder. It's assisted suicide.
Murder is when the person doesn't ask to be killed. That lady with dementia didn't ask to be gunned down.
15:37 "You'd better do something about that cough" I don't know man, the way James said it made it feel like it was a threat rather than him worrying for Maria's health.
Interesting interpretation.
"We are done making psychological horror games and are focused on more "mass marketed" horror games"
-bloober team
Blooper Team aren’t known for subtlety.
Considering that Konami confirmed there ditching the original design of the nurses because there to problematic for a "modern audience" the games story and themes are already worse off then the original.
Did they entirely?
I just thought they had to change the design to show less skin (which in itself is fucked).
@coureurdesbois6754 yeah your right my bad. They added stocking to them which still changes the orginal intention of the monster design from SH2.
smh fuck any new remakes coming tbh
I'm more concerned about Bloober saying that they are done making "psychological" horror games and that this Silent Hill 2 Remake is a taste of their first "mass-market horror" focus going forward. Yikes.
Simply put. This remake is failing to present the protagonist as an individual who has suppressed his mental and emotional struggle, with the facade tearing apart as the story unfolds.
exactly
This is it.
We have barely even seen the remake. What are you talking about?
@@theobell2002 First impressions from what is shown in the trailer.
@@theobell2002 They're ALREADY changing Maria's outfit so that she's "covered up" more.
Everything you said makes sense to me and I agree with you. I honestly had doubts about remaking Silent Hill 2. I worry old and new fans will compare any possible Silent Hill games after this remake of SH2 to the detriment of those games just as the original SH2 did for SH3, SH4 and SH5 if the game really does make the franchise take off again. I never really understood why people seemed to not give credit or eagerly shit on any Silent Hill game that came out after 2. 3 and 4 seemed to have been hit with that hardest because they were always comparing them with 2. Feels like there's just no making older fans happy. I've always found 3 scary and I seemed to deeply connect with the fears and themes in it even though I couldn't explain why at the time. I was about 14-16 when I played SH3. I think that if they were to remake any Silent Hill games it might be better to remake 1 and 3. I can see the SH2 remake being hated by old fans though I wouldn't be one of the haters. I thought remaking 2 was a terrible way to inject new life into the franchise until I heard about Ascension, and it seems to be a decision based on its enduring popularity and that may be a mistake. But there's hope for more lenient fans and new fans who aren't familiar with SH if & when the SH2 remake releases. I'll enjoy the originals and installments for what they are, and I'll enjoy a remake even if it's very different from the original. I'm a little less forgiving of the films due to the reasons the director gave for the changes he did.
It seems to me that this remake is likely to be a make-or-break moment for Bloober. They don't exactly have a stellar reputation to begin with. While they do seem to have some fans, I don't think anyone regards them as a top-tier developer. If they somehow manage to get this right, and we get a remake that's as good as the RE2 or RE4 remakes, that could earn Blooper an enormous amount of respect and reframe them as a top-tier developer. On the other hand, if they screw this up and give us a turd of a remake, then I think they're finished. They would be forever remembered as the folks who botched one of the most beloved games ever. They would be seen as the Kathleen Kennedy of video games.
I feel like a bit of the tones in James are quite noticeably complex and layered. They're very subtle but once you know what to look for, there's a lot to read into its subtext. Beyond the directorial intent of not letting the players know of what he feels, I believe that there's also a strong component of him feeling very slightly off. He seems fine, but very slightly off. I feel like looking at it exclusively as being directorial intent removes a lot of the nuance of how much it adds to the story and the characters, though I understand why you said as much. I look at it far more in the role that it plays for the character of James rather than the storytelling of the plot mystery.
I also feel like beyond the twist of the story, it is also the fact that the twist is not the whole meat of the story. The meat is thankfully denser than its breading. Another meat-based analogy would be that the mystery and twist are just connective tissue to a character story which provides the real meat and nutrients.
I feel like Silent Hill 2 still works perfectly today. Its twist is not that important to me. The twist is a dot that helps connect everything. In a psychological story, something like that is plot, to me, doesn't matter nearly as much as the character writing and examinations. And those are complex and timeless in Silent Hill 2. I feel like almost all psychological character writing which is good is bound to be timeless. If it's not timeless, it's probably because it's made a mistake somewhere which reduced its inherent quality.
Psycho is a thriller, a very plot-driven one. That's part of why it doesn't work so well today. The character writing and complexity is not the focus, the suspense and mystery is. The suspense and mystery of Psycho are its meat, its connective tissue, its center and mass. All of its parts and all of its filmmaking. That's everything it is built for, and that is what Hitchcock is known for. He is the master of suspense, not the master of character study. Plot and mystery are much more fragile to time. It doesn't mean it'll fall to time, it can be made timeless, but it is more likely to be fragile, depending on how they are written.
Silent Hill 2 has that as a component for the first time, but after you're done with that, there's way more to chew on. Those other things are what keeps the game from being dated to me; It's not really about the mystery. The mystery is simply the vehicle which guides you through the complexities and traumas of the very well-defined characters, and the quality of which it achieves that makes it timeless. I see it as a good example of horror precisely for those same reasons, like how in a lot of good psychological horror, the more traditional horror ends up being a vehicle for a much more real, and more terrifyingly tangible human horror. It is off of that same quality that Silent Hill 2 works. To me, Silent Hill 2 captures a lot of what's great about psychological thrillers and psychological horror fiction; Kafkaesque tones and themes, Lynchian surrealism, Stephen King's adult horror and Crime And Punishment's character complexity and definition.
Speaking of which; Crime and Punishment is a book from the 1800s, but a lot of it still applies today.
James is the story, he's the vehicle for the player and how the player sees silent hill through HIS eyes. Failing to nail that out of the park will cause the whole house of cards to crumble. wanting to have the game play around with unrelated characters or events seems to have been an achilles heel as of late with new remake titles. side characters are there to support the main cast or main lead, shouldnt be bleeding time from the player's experience.
@@TKUltra971 That too is very true.
@@TKUltra971you're right
One can still do a character study on Bates, even if not the intent and focus of Hitchcock. It's been done. Not the deepest, but there is a reason we still know of it today.
@@blumiu2426 That's true. There's still layers to Bates as a character and I do think he's the best part of the film. All the dialogue with him is great.
New rule: No more remakes. Ever!
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As someone with BPD, and a lot of CSA related trauma I deeply related to Angela. She was presented well and I (and many others) headcanon her having borderline. Trauma victims aren’t people who just recover easily. I hope media outlets give her that, she’s an amazing representation of someone who has suffered through a lot. Good video all around!
they're gonna ruin her character entirely, make her self-centered, and then for a little treat they're going to change her ethnicity and make her not at all depressed but instead the bossy mean-girl 💀can't wait for sh2 remake, my hopse are sOooOOOoOoOOo high
Me and a couple of friends played this game when it came out as teens and we did definitely didn't guessed the twist. Now 20 years later I let my 16 year old son play the game while I sat with him. He did guess the twist about half way through.
While me and my friends was scared, creept out, confused and all out paranoid about what was around the next corner or a working door. My son attitude was very gen-z gamery.
Like cracking jokes, speeding around or just went around blasting every enemy as soon as he got the pistol and shotgun. He got really frustrated by how the camera worked and so spent a bit too much energy on complaining about it instead of taking in the story.
However when he got to the hotel, his tone became way more serious. Really taking in what happend and what was being said. We talked for about an hour afterwards about the games themes and message. Since this game is really heavy I wanted him to be old enough to understand what was going on. He did understand way more than what I as a 16 year old did.
So in regards to the remake. I've said multiple times that I'm causatively optimistic about it. I really want it to do the original story justice, that it is well received by players and that my worries are all proven wrong.
That is so cool of you to play this game with your son. Massive props to you!
Maybe I'm a cynic but I really don't think this remake is gonna be worth a damn and it certainly isn't gonna compare to the original. Hell I don't expect it to even be shipped, it's probably gonna go the way of PT.
This isn't an RE remake, SH2 is a work of art and can't be replicated.
Exactly. And contrary to the zoomers' statements, DEmake 2 was utter shit compared to the original game.
Spot on as always Mayo, I don't think I'll play the remake. I think the media around it will be toxic and I just don't think you can recreate the nuance of that original story.
watch the reviews of your most trusted reviewers. If they give the green light, play it and literally ignore any and all other criticism/controversy.
I never bought or played The last of us 2 in silence. Didnt even talk to my friends about it that loved it.
The main reason why modern remakes are an issue is because its taking games and stories that defined a generation of gamers, game creators, artists and story writers then crapping them out for a now 'safe space' audience. Its fitting because nearly all remake titles released in the past 10 years have mostly been duds or missed the mark entirely. Silent Hill 2 was a incredibly dark story that didn't explicitly tell you what was going on with the characters but HEAVILY implied it. I guarantee you that they are going to cut it out because SONY is involved with the remake. Look at the RE remake franchise, F.fantasy and more. All locked into their console.. $
Like RE4 was always a batsh*t classic of a game that made no sense. Now its laid on so thick its unappetizing. You can shoot someone in the face, but we couldn't get an explanation as to why ADA WONG doesn't have a dress or why it wasn't a DLC item.
Anything Sony is involved in is dead on arrival. Now they are remaking the Metal Gear series without Kojima unrestrained at the helm. Without all the melodramatic story telling, adult humor and adult situations along with the action set pieces will it even be Metal Gear? No, its old classics remade as if to be presented to your parents in their mid to late 50s.
wow ....totally agree
xddddddddddd
why should it be a question whether she has a dress or not? what a crybaby complaint
also kojima did the trash msg 4 and 5, he is not required
@@GerardoFirestorm Ah yes. I am sure emotionless Konami that has been spitting in its fans face will do a much better job then the guy who literally created the Franchise
@@GerardoFirestorm Yeah, only crybabies complain when iconic characters are "reimagined" to have their iconic look unceremoniously stripped away. Damn crybabies! You WILL accept what corporation feeds you! If Capcom wants to reimagine Mega Man as a blue palette swap of Master Chief, you WILL enjoy it!
You get it yet, corpo bootlicker?
yea like a movie production company with too much say it can sour a project. MGS was a relic and product of its time, you know they are going to fuck it up lol. As for ada's dancer in heels gettup someone attempted to say theylll add that dress later to the game but its too far too late to even bother. another dead pan entry that was ruined by today's ideas.
"Casualties" as i've come to call them. FF7 will never recover in our life times, pretty sure someone in Japan is crying themselves to sleep every night over that mess.
It's great to find a video where the person actually understands the complexity of the story instead of just going superficially on it and missing a lot of the deeper layers. Kudos! Great content.
Im glad you noticed this about James face. In the original his face gives somewhat a childish, wonderlike expression. I would even say a little amused and curious. Along with character dialogs and the soundtrack, the whole story gives very grotesque execution yet has dreamlike lightness to it. And the scene in the mirror is so iconic, only because, like you said, his face is seemless. The whole beauty of first SH games that they have this bizzarre akwardness to its charachters along side with a heavy storyline.
I think of SH2 as a psychology test of sorts. The most satisfying ending for the player says a lot about the player. I prefer the Leave ending (unless you include the Dog ending) because I'm generally a forgiving sort, and honestly, killing Mary was marciful for both of them. Paradoxically, though, I do think that the In Water and the Ritual/Rebirth endings are better suited as canon for the franchise, given the somber, melancholy atmosphere that it's famous for, and Silent Hill 4 implies that one of those is in fact canon, because James's father is a character in that game, and it's stated that his son disappeared.
The endings really do say a lot about the players themselves. I know people who struggle with depression who's played the game several times and gotten nothing but the In Water ending each time, as an example
i did the in water ending after reading the hospital roof note and listening to mary's pleas in the hotel. i felt like i/james deserved it.
@@j0hnicide That was his intention; murder-suicide
Controversially, I believe that the Rebirth ending is the most interesting one, as it is such a poetic conclusion to James’ character arc. While the three other endings represent him either forgiving himself (Leave), breaking under the feelings of guilt (In Water), or trying to justify his actions (Maria) - the fourth ending focuses on him not being able to draw any meaning from what happened.
It is a beautiful cycle of regret, where a man desperately tries to fix what clearly cannot be fixed instead of owning up to the deed. Of course, when one is presented with such a complex dilemma - were his actions justified or not - it is much easier to try to avoid it completely by trying to get rid of the problem. No dead wife - nothing to own up to.
This ending represents James being consumed by Silent Hill. Like Sisyphus, rolling a boulder up a hill for eternity, he will never find inner peace, instead just retracing his steps over and over again, hopelessly trying to fix what is clearly unfixable.
This is by far the most likely outcome for someone in his position. And although it is perhaps the least satisfying finale to his story, it is the most brutal and uncompromising. For even over 20 years later, James is still there, in their special place, waiting for her.
Yeah it's definitely a compelling ending. I just don't count it in the discussion since it's an alt ending only unlockable on a replay. Still a good ending though.
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Love your channel. You put everything I felt into words. There is a reason for every camera angle, every 3d model, every face animation and cutscene to be the way it fucking is. Why can't more people see this? The same thing happened with Bluepoint remakes of shadow of the colossus and demon's souls. Technically impressive, sure. Continuously miss the damn point; also sure. It really frustrates me.
Wrong about Shadow of the Colossus remake. That was their faithful remake, they only added the collection stuff. Demon's Souls is the one they took liberties.
The thing that matters to me the most is that James clearly just committed this act and was so lost and filled with adrenaline after that he has no idea what's going on. And we get to experience what he went through having murdered someone he loved deep down but also stood in his way from having a normal life back. It's essentially the nightmares you have after a bad event, like a breakup or losing a loved one... running after them in your dreams, only remembering that they're gone when you wake up.
"In my restless dreams..."
This is why I bought a copy of SH2 for PS2 just recently, at a reasonable price at that. I have no faith in Bloober whatsoever.
Totally on point. Thats the issue with remakes - we already know how the story will play out. When i first played SH2 waaaay back then, i tought about a guy being stranded in a weird foggy place with monsters and weirdos and wanted to know "whats up with that place". Its a shame, really. They could have told a new story with a "bigger Silent Hill" - using modern tech to show an open world with puzzles, drama and being able to just morph the scenery and all.
You make an interesting point that we really don't know anything about James outside the plot and wondering about his marriage. He really is a hard to read character. He really is flat. While the new James in the Remake looks more somber and moppy, I still feel these emotions were present in the original. Now, I'm sure that's just subjective on my part. But when I played this game, I saw a guy who looked and expressed sadness because his wife died. At first glance, to me, he was sad because there's a part of him that misses her. And you could hear the emotion and sadness in his voice even though you couldn't see it fully expressed on the PS2. If he was flat, which let's be honest, he was, for me, it felt like he was trying to hold his feelings in and not show them. Like being depressed but still trying to smile that tells everyone, "I'm fine" so they don't dig deeper into his trauma. But he's really not fine. It's something that I could identify with but that could most likely be me projecting my own emotions onto the game. But that's also part of SH2's brilliance. The way it affects people through its storytelling and how it makes you feel. I'm very interested in seeing how they handle the Remake. Thanks for the video. I absolutely enjoyed it.
As I saw the trailer was hyped up because I never played SH2 and thought this was a way to enjoy it. But then I heard about Blooper's mishandling of mental illness, their statement that they won't go for psychological horror games, and the grim reminder that gamers/people, in general, are talking shit like that and have no nuances anymore. I am really more afraid of the game-changing its direction because of calls for cancellation.
I hope not, because of that I am trying to get my hands on the SH2 PC copy and the SH2 EE mod.
I’m so glad primal fear was shown in the beginning. Such an underrated film
This remake will either end up elevating Bloober Team to a venerated developer status, or end up entirely destroying their studio's reputation. I feel there will be no in-between. They obviously campaigned hard with Konami to land this gig, but starting from the most beloved emotionally charged complex entry in the series was a huge mistake. They probably should have started from SH1 to get a feel for it first and then moved on to SH2 once they were confident and had sorted out the kinks
I recently found your channel and I love it, greetings from Brazil!
I found your channel through your discussion on Smudcast, this is the first video of yours I have watched. You echoed pretty much every concern I have with the remake in the works but put it better than I could. Frankly I don't have high hopes for it given the state of the industry over the past few years but I hope for the original game's sake it is done right. You got a sub from me.
Excellent video Mayo. You said many things nicely, especially regarding the complexity of James' character and endings.
This video almost exactly reflects my concerns... I think Konami is just trying to replicate that remake gravy they saw from RE4. You can't replicate the amazing sound design+simple yet effective combat+storytelling. There is very little creative soul in all of the releases post SH3 - SH franchise storytelling is dead in the water lol.
To be honest,I don`t find an issue with the twist,since well...like it or not the majority of players ALREADY know the twist,whether they`d played the game or not. Numerous essays,videos etc. and their high viewership adds to this fact. I determine if a story had a good twist based on if that story works WITHOUT the twist itself. As in,if it can still be considered solid work. Psycho is great for that. I`ve seen Psycho for the first time 3 years ago and by then the twist had been hammered into many people`s brains. It wasn`t as shocking maybe,but it was still a great movie and had an enormous impact on me,especially the acting. The Psycho remake(?) didn`t work not because the audience got tired of it already,but mainly because it was BADLY acted. Had it been a separate movie(presuming the previous one didn`t exist) I reckon it`d STILL get flack because it`s just a bad movie.
My biggest issue with this particular remake is that it`s done by Bloober Team and besides Observer, their work regarding mental health and game mechanics has been...well,less than stellar,let`s put it that way. It`s why I`m not worried about whether they`ll include `problematic` parts of the game,they probably will. But,given their track record,I`m afraid they`ll dumb it down a lot more. They never were subtle in any of their games. I`m miles more interested in the SH project done by Ryukishi07, Silent Hill f,than any of the other games they`ll release,this remake included.
just a reminder for anyone reading: an 'outrage' article isn't an article written by an outraged person, it's an article written to make you feel outraged. I really wish people understood this :)
He’s supposed to look normal because this man’s wife had just died and had been sick for three years so after she died (and the nurse gave James The Letter), He broke and associated when she got sick is when she died (to James she died his eyes, when she got sick) it’s a messed up story.
Mary wrote Laura a letter before she died. Yet, Laura stated that she had to steal the letter from the nurses locker
Something about that makes me wonder about Laura
As incredible and talented as capcom is, even they give into the twitter crowd. What separates capcom, is all their women isn't ugly.
They still made jill ugly. I can't imagine the butchering they would do to sheva if they remake 5. They are going to turn sheva one of the most attractive video game characters of all time into alloy from HFW.
@@latinaparfait idk jill is pretty attractive imo. And I'm sure sheva will be hot
@@TropicaIJay If you still think shes attractive get your eyes checked.
@@latinaparfait she's very attractive imo, and she's femenine. Her personality is the only thing that's changed. Imagine if it was an western studio. She'd be hideous
There are people that still have some sort of hope in this game? If it even gets made, that is.
Anyway, they are changing a lot of things, the male protagonist killing his wife? Nope, the female protagonist being a whore? Nope, one of the other protagonists becoming a murderer because of "fat-shaming"? Nope.
And I wouldnt be surprised of they completely remove Angela.
@RubyKing1997 María looks and acts like a whore, that's the point, she is James's fantasy...
@RubyKing1997 Maria had a key for a certain bar and the whole "I am, if you want me to be" pretty strongly implies she is
the ambient music they use in the ending cutscenes is incredible. so beautiful.
Exactly. Movie and gaming audiences are so desensitized to plot twists and reveals due to the rapid explosion of such media during those twenty-and-counting years that it's going to be almost impossible to bring in the shock factor in the same fashion was it was done so many years ago.
Honestly great video, summed up all my personal thoughts really well. Also nice act man cameo.
The fact is developing a Silent Hill title whether original or a remake, is like looking for life in the universe, while it makes perfect sense creatively and financially, we just have no reason to believe it can be done anymore. After Silent Hills was canceled you have to understand the mentality, remaking Silent Hill 2 comes with a real threat of danger, messing up Silent Hill 2 remake would not only likely produce death threats from crazed fans but it would rightfully be career ending for any developer taking up the task. It’s not something you want to fail if you took up the responsibility, it would require years of work from some of the most brilliant people in the industry, that are not afraid to go to those corners of human consciousness and scare people . While some will be appalled of your creation, the spoils in terms of artistic value, financial gain, the educational value, these games have always tried to push people into the world of psychology and more. There’s so much to gain on so many levels if we can find a team that can expand the Silent Hill IP. I know Bloober can do it if they keep re examining everything, and honoring the original game to the fullest, as well as their own ideas. It wouldn’t hurt to find and bring some old school passionate fans in just to juggle ideas
Bloober Team is led by a bunch of idiots,everyone is worried about this remake then they say they will make this game for "modern audiences" something that will piss some people off just hearing this.
I'm cautiously optimistic with this game since Silent Hill 2 is one of my favorite games of all time but i don't have much faith on Bloober making this game after The Medium.
Now we know that sweet baby clone number 62617 is working on silent hill 2 remake, we know it won’t have any of the soul of the original.
Bloober Team must absolutely watch this video . Please send it to them.
Silent Hill is one of the few gamea I played twice. First I got the in water ending, then I did the secret Rebirth ending too which is also fascinating to experience.
I think the story will definitely be predictable for a lot of people but that’s dependent on how many stories that person has experienced, whether it’s through books, movies, games etc.
I remember watching Primal Fear at age 10 and having my mind blown by its story. Whereas watching Jacbob’s Ladder at 28 I found it to be completely uninteresting because I knew what the ending would be 5 minutes in and even understood the blatant way they announced it during his massage
I've only played Silent Hill 2 as a grown up, so it can't be the nostalgia speaking when I say it's one of the best gaming experience I've ever had, and the game itself stood apart from everything else I've played, ever since.
Though I remember that I HATED playing it, as I was very bad at it - I didn't know you can kick fallen monsters to death, so imagine how much I suffered trying to kill the straight-jackets with the downward melee attack: it was almost always a chore and a damage exchange between us. I also didn't know there was a health level above the green one (full health is almost blue, I think), so I've spent almost the entire game not completely healed up and always holding on to healing items (as Mayo pointed out, by the end I had way too much ammo and health). You can guess how lost I felt, and how frustrating it was to wander around with difficult enemies in every corner.
Even though the gameplay felt a struggle, I felt it completely fit the tone, and an atmosphere such as that I've never felt again. My ending was "In Water", and the impact of Angel's Thanatos drumming n' riffing while I reflected on the whole experience, consolidated that ending as the canon, and the game in my heart.
My younger brother never played the original, and I fear so much that the remake won't give to him a similar experience I had back then. Mayo's hope to be wrong resonates deep within.
Nothing nostalgic about any of that. Tons if people, young and old, have found and greatly enjoyed SH2 these past 20 years.
That being said, unless you skipped reading the manual, and didn't play the (IMO superior) SH1 first, not knowing how to kick fallen foes is a pretty bad fuckup.
@@GugureSux don't know about any manual haha yeah you're right, but bear with me: I think the 1st enemy you kill on normal doesn't get back up, so you don't really need to learn the "stomping enemies" action.
After the 1st fight, I tried a lot of combinations to see the "moveset" of the weapon, but the stomp attack is not prompted unless there's a downed enemy, so again, the game fails to properly show there's such an action as stomping downed enemies.
Finally, the 1st weapon does have an attack that hits enemies while they're down, so I intuitively thought that was how you're supposed to attack them when they fall.
I know it's a fuck-up, but I insist the game shares a part of the blame for not explaining it properly, and looking back, I'm actually glad I didn't find out and struggled through the game, I have only fond memories of that experience of hardship
There is no such thing as a "Modern Audience". Just an audience. People who enjoyed Silent Hill 2 originally were not part of the main stream, they were gamers, back in a time when gaming was still a niche thing. Companies need to realize they will never please everyone, and work towards making the best game they can, and in the case of a remake, that means making it as true to the source material as possible.
... I basically looked at Silent Hill 2 and thought James was deserving of forgiveness when I was younger. I now realise how complex the endings actually are thanks to you. Thanks for sharing this perspective I didn't realise existed up until now. What a gem of a game.
I haven't watched the video yet, but presuming this is what I THINK it's talking about hard agree.
See, in little over 20 years, SH2 went from a wholly unique title to the single most contemporary piece of art in its own field. Whenever you see an obnoxiously titled indie horror game named after some mental illness and has a plot about self reflection or the character's damaged psyche, well congrats, that is Silent Hill 2's fault. It is the biggest case of "Suffering frim success" that I can think of; the game was so influential that two decades later the market is still trying to copy it. Silent Hill 2's plot is no longer unique, there are simply too many copycats at this point. That said, it does do its plot better than any of its "successors", but it's hard to ignore the ill effects of its popularity, even within its own franchise.
Because the copycatting didn't stop with indie devs. In the following years you began seeing Pyramid Head/Red Pyramid Thing make appears in games like Silent Hill Homecoming, Book of Memories and even the movies, all places that character never belonged or had a purpose in. Games like Homecoming and Downpour tried to ride off SH2's themes of guilt and
expository formula both to lesser effect. The games that weren't trying to be the next Silent Hill 2 were instead trying to reboot Silent Hill 1 between Origins and Shattered Memories. And at the heart of it all was Konami, the people making all the decisions and greenlighting all of this.
So with a Silent Hill 2 Remake coming along, naturally my biggest concern is Bloober Team, who are both known for NOT making Survival Horror and their proclivity towards bad mental health plots, is going to reinterpret the game into what THEY want it to be. We can already see snippits of that in the reveal where James goes from an empty shell of a man to sad faced agony man dropping to his knees with all the charisma of soap opera acting. The subtlety that made the game famous is BEING compromised right before our eyes and Konami has failed fans of this franchise many, MANY times before. I'm not inclined to believe any of this was done in good faith. Especially not when they LITERALLY came out and TOLD us (during the same presentation) that the SH2 Remake is a MOVIE TIE-IN GAME. For those that didn't know, yes they admitted to this and it went under most people's radar because it was during a segment without any gameplay or footage on screen and the devs were just chatting. This game is already a farce and I think Bloober knows what kind of pressure they are under considering they have since renounced their interest in "Psychological Horror" and are now interested in "Mass Market Horror" AKA games like FNAF, Bendy, and Poppy Playtime.
Let me be clear, I am not worried about this game failing. It'd be faaaaar from the first time around that block. What I AM afraid of is this game getting turned into streamer bait, something Konami seemingly WANTS, and this game doing what the first movie did by rewriting the game's history. Because you and I both know we're going to see a bunch of "Silent Hill Experts" after this game comes out; slack jawed idiots who never played any of the other games and ignored this franchise for its entire life cycle until it became briefly popular through a remake and they used it as a chance to get more streamer cred. That is GOING to happen, let's be real.
Post Viewing Edit:
Personally, while the topic of which ending is cannon has always been up for grabs, I think the "Good" ending is the best. While the In Water ending is potentially fitting and the other endings are interesting at the very least, the Good Ending not only reveals the most about what was truly going through James's mind but also the most self reflection. It isn't all happy, but it IS healthy. He's being honest with himself for the first time in the entire game and you get to see that his actions weren't entirely motivated by malice, just a very tired and conflicted man who got put in a situation that is all too common for couples suffering from things like early dementia or other mental ailments. Yeah, he smothers Mary but she also wanted to die and condoned the action. James merely did it for the wrong reasons; not out of love, but out of escapism. And for him that was the last time he ever got to truly speak to her, he tarnished his most important memory of the person he married. The idea of him fully accepting the responsibility of his actions and listening to Mary when she tells him to go on with his life is REALLY inspiring, hands down one of the most thoughtful endings in a game that I have ever experienced. You get to see the full scope of the human condition and someone rise past it, even potentially carry out that responsibility by taking in the little girl Mary wanted them to adopt. In some small way, he is carrying on her wishes.
Great comment, and I agree completely about the endings. The "In Water" ending never felt satisfying for me, since it seems odd for James to overcome his guilt, represented by the PH fight, only to off himself anyhow. It just never felt right to me.
What I find incredibly mind-breaking is watching fans bicker about which is the "canon" ending. It strikes me as an entirely inane concept, and one which would only be relevant if the game had a direct sequel, which it did not. In my view, the canon ending is the one you get. That's how your story ends. If someone died in the PH boss fight and they said screw this game and never touched it again, then that's how their story ends, with James unable to overcome his guilt. If I get the "Leave" ending and someone tries telling me that "In Water" is the true canon ending, they're basically telling me that my experience with the game was invalid, it wasn't "real." That's not how art works.
@@balthazor44 Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I think cannon endings are fine, but I feel like people get a little too fired up about which one it is. I sorta see the reason in it given endings can often be ranked in terms of their quality, but Silent Hill is not a series known for followups beyond Silent Hill 3, so whatever ending you think James deserved or should have gotten really is just that. It's a personal thing. I love the brutal nihilism of the In Water ending, Leave is wholesome and shows rare but impactful character growth, the Mary ending shows what happens when James fails to learn from past mistakes and embraces his vices, and then of course DOG is there for the sake of comedy. The people involved with the project have made it an important note that there is no true cannon ending to this game beyond what the player favors so that's the guideline I follow.
Ik some things are going to be cut but I really hope they keep the Maria ending in the game. It is by far my favorite bad ending in all of gaming because of the weight behind it. Not to mention that final line when James says "you better do something about that cough" still sends chills down my spine
23:26
Slight correction there, Angela is about 16 or 17, according to the making-of video.
Great video and interesting take. I feel like the most important part of Silent Hill 2 is the atmosphere and if they can replicate that, the remake should be fine.
I disagree that the predictability of the story will tarnish the new players experience. I think any new player will be more focused on the environment, the atmosphere and what horrors are coming next - due to it being completely new to them, just like it was to us when we first played the game.
I just can’t see someone playing a Silent Hill game for the first time and writing it off based on the fact that the twist may be foreseeable early in the game for horror game/ veterans.
I'm not saying they will write it off though. Like I said, there's more parts of the storytelling that are important. I'm saying the experience will be lessened if things are too obvious. The revelation near the end is an important part of the experience.
If only real people can see the whole picture instead of labeling and calling someone a "bad guy" or following the crowd via social media.
Any of us can probably become a murder to much worse when we can't take it anymore. Or cannot bare the suffering.
It's easier to give negative opinions than positive ones. For some, anyway
Many purposely choose to refer to labels rather than see the bigger picture because it's easier that way. Especially if you want to pass cruel opinions right feom the start
@@SamuelBlack84 that's really funny when they're fine with putting others down but only wanting postive validation aka "good vibes only" but fine with others suffering or being labeled all long as it isn't them or who they consider close enough to not deserve it.
I have a friend with a chronic illness. Told him I'd euthanise him when the time comes.
I think you may be spot on. The only thing I think may be contentious is your take one whether or not it actually is Mary in the game as that aspect is unclear. It's not unreasonable to assume the town has the power to bring her back, it's just unclear if that is the case or if the Mary we see is just another manifestation.
But that's lore autism for guys like us to argue over later. What's important is what you pointed out here: can modern audiences handle a character who is not outright good or evil, but is just simply a human being? Everyone these days filters information thru their own political ideology (myself included), even when we are talking about a story that is not about politics or ideology or even philosophy, but just about being a human.
However, I think this also worth noting: I recently watched a younger person experience this game for the first time (a vtuber formerly known as "Pikamee"), someone who was born after this game's heyday. And here's the thing: she _got_ it. She understood what the game was going for and how it worked and everything and it was amazing watching someone's reaction to this heartbreaking story. She didn't descend into sensationalization or hyperbole, she didn't hyperfocus on one aspect of the story or character, she didn't morally grandstand. She _understood_ it all and _hit_ _her_ _hard_ . What's the point of mentioning this? It's this: I think that we tend to hyperfocus ourselves on the status climbers and ideologically driven journalists. The disingenuous cunts who are seeking to built clout within their niche group and with that hyperfocus on them, we tend to convince ourselves that this is the mainstream when in reality, I think most ppl get it and love the story as much as we did back then for the same reasons. The concern comes in with whether the devs understand that our if they will bow to pressure of a loud minority who only have as much power as you allow them. Only time will tell, here.
As for me, personally, tho, I've been burned enough to know that it best to be cautiously optimistic here and even then, that's only cuz they have Masahiro Ito back on the project.
"THE MESSAGE"
James as a character is so straight forward yet so layered that its so easy that he'll be mischaracterized. Like what you said in the video, unless you've personally had someone close to you suffer from a terminal illness, you'd know and understand how it affects you emotionally and mentally. Silent Hill 2, as a whole, is meant to be a literal guilt trip. The "best" part about it, is how further in the story it makes you question if James really came to Silent Hill to find Mary or he had an ulterior motive to come to Silent Hill to make peace with himself and take his own life. But the game goes about in a way that it blurs that line and instead shows us first hand how lost in his own delusions he is in order to I guess "cope". Even the mirror scene at the beginning, how everyone is complaining how he should look based on his facial expression. If he should be anxious, sad, or both, but nobody talks about the small details about his mannerisms too such as how he touches his face or bites his lip as a possible grounding technique and how it sort of makes a big difference between the two iterations. It tells us either he's contemplating going through with what he's about to do, or if this is his only shot at redemption for closure. We never knew the kind of person James was before Mary was sick and we were never meant to. I love that it is left in our hands to interoperate that and decide his fate, and on top of that, you'd really have to go out of your way to control that narrative just to get a different ending based on what we think he deserves. He's by no means a perfect person, in fact very flawed, which makes him seem so "real". Whether that is a result of what he went through with Mary, or if he's always been that way is unclear. Its so hard to recapture or to even adapt how James is in different mediums because everyone can perceive his character differently. Which is why both adaptations are doomed to fail regardless. Its the best game in the series, but it ruined how we view Silent Hill in some aspects that only reduces it to romanticizing how grief and trauma affects people in such a negative way (COUGH COUGH short message COUGH COUGH) and it only works in its own secluded story which keeps all the wacky cult stuff so far in the background you don't notice it. It serves as not only a great sequel, but a great side story that is almost completely detached from its predecessor aside from its setting.
over all I think SH 2 is untouchable. Its story and characters can never be replicated or even come close to how they were depicted in the original game and that even trying to do so does it just a great disservice. Great video, and great take. I too hope I'm proven wrong.
Came back to this video after seeing the new gameplay trailer, they completely ruined Maria, Anglea and James and are missing the point of what made sh2 great completely
Maria looks bad yeah.
@@underthemayo yeah she does, she looks like shit in the remake compared to her original version, btw will you be doing a video on the new gameplay or nah I'm curious to see what you think of everything in the new gameplay they had to show personally I don't like it
Also love your videos dude I like how you keep it real
One interesting thing they could try to do is give the player more obvious choices throughout the game that determine which ending you get. I think in the original game some of the things you had to do to influence the ending were a bit too ambiguous and if you are unaware of the mechanics behind it you could easily end up with any of the three main endings. Maybe there can be more dialogue options and choices along the way. I think that could make the game even more complex and let the players decide for themselves if they think that James deserves forgiveness or not.
I feel like I’m going insane hearing responses from the fanbase. Like not only do I feel like barely anyone is making reasonable interpretations anymore, but also every side of every argument demonizes the other while barely even knowing how to type. I understand that SH fans were already kinda weird and could be pretentious but now with the new era of fans ushered in it feels like a warzone full of smart asses. The reasonable thing to do with this new game is to be reluctantly open to a reinterpretation. That being said it’s being done by a team that’s arguably not suited and already has aspects of their new product that don’t fit the important themes of the old product. People love to bash the voice acting of sh2 but they like to leave out that the main cast primarily consists of violent mentally ill criminals. Nobody ever says Maria or Mary has bad voice acting because she as a character is talking in right mind. James and Angela in their first scene just meet each other after committing very intimate murders. Like of course they are going to sound weird they are fucking weirdos. The best part about james(and Guy Cihi’s) voice acting is that he’s a pretty accurate representation of someone depersonalized and in a state of psychosis(which is a very reasonable interpretation of the events of the game). The sad boy face of new James puts a bad taste in my mouth, and just how emotive he is doesn’t seem in line with the character. I find it highly disrespectful not just to the game and the people who worked on it, but also to people who liked the voice acting to simply write it off as “bad voice acting due to limitations”. This game means a lot to a lot of people, and I’m not saying people can’t be going to far with their defense of the first game but it truly feels like the “fans” of silent hill 2 have lost what made me fall in love with the first game. Nuance
problematic is the word Problematic people uses because before those problematic people came along everything was just a matter of you like it or you ignore it.
The Problem is that today you can't write a character who is just one character. Just one particular character who happens to be the way they are. No matter what kind of character you write, people will always assume that you are making the political statement that EVERY person of that character's demographic is exactly like this. You write a character who suffers from trauma? Than that is a statement that EVERYONE who suffers from trauma is exactly like this character, as an example. Its annoying and drives me nuts.
SH 2 might be one of the most memorable games I've played and definitely one that deeply resonate with me. For years I've been a vocal advocate against any remake. With the rumors growing, and the trailer finally releasing, my skepticism only has been proved right. I have zero faith in Bloober Team, especially with the first few images we got.
I agree with everything you pointed out. I also hope the damages will be limited to how the story is told, and not the story itself. Any form of censorship would be detrimental to the experience.
Its funny how you hit the mark but still missed it somehow. Most of the people who played it were kids or teenagers with very little literary experience. They didn't have the knowledge of similar stories that were already being told in other mediums. It doesn't say anything about Silent Hill 2, and says everything about the past knowledge of the player.
That's what I said. We weren't used to these kinds of stories, and we were young. Both points were said. Kids today are binging tiktoks on mental health. They're way more attuned to this stuff now.
@underthemayo I disagree. The new generation will be just as surprised as ours was. They don't have the depth of literary knowledge we do now. The same way the older people did when we were kids.
Most reviewers these days seem to be oblivious to the cycles of storytelling. Most stories have already been told, you just might not have read that particular one yet. It all gets pretty samey and you have to appreciate it for what it is, and not be disappointed that you already knew the story beats because you've seen this story 10 times already.
I don't know if you watch anime but it's the easiest example. If you've seen a battle Shonen, you've practically seen them all. Your first one will always be legendary, and you'll be disappointed the rest of them just copied your favorite.
You stumbled on one of the bigger problems with western SH games. These people are aware of series themes. They just have no idea that there's meaning to them. They see them as fun little easter eggs to throw the fans and not intentionally placed elements meant to steer the player in a specific direction. People are so fucking quick to assume team silent had no idea what they were doing. Like they accidentally pumped out 3 hits in a row, while working for a company that was actively working against them.
Silent Hill's 2 story is honestly very triggering for me based on personal experience - but it's one I do come back to.
When James said "I want my life back" - that's how I felt when my dad was dying. Life changed, I was losing my only remaining parent, and I wanted things to go back how they were. There were many times I was woken up hearing him moaning out in pain as I watched him slowly die - and I even had thoughts of wanting to kill him to make his suffering stop.
I love my dad. I miss him. Life feels like it stopped since he's been gone and I have not had familial support to help me through this loss. I did not want my dad to die, even if dark thoughts came into mind to stop that suffering and selfish thoughts of "I want my life back".
Of course I did not kill him but that does not stop the anguish and grief that I felt strongly reinstating with a character like James - which is devoid of most personality so it's even easier to put oneself into that situation. The story is complicated and does trigger trauma I have not dealt with, but it draws me in because of it's familiarity to how complicated reality is. I can't even say Silent Hill 2 was ahead of its time but more perfect for its time because I cannot imagine any video game hitting this story in the open ended "you get to decide how you feel about it" way coming anywhere close. Everything feels safe and watered down and I don't feel the current gaming industry trusts its audience to think for themselves.
Sorry to hear this. My dad died mercifully quick of his illness but I was still maddened by the hoarse moaning sounds of pain. I feared they would replace every memory of him.
Sorry to hear it man , it can be very hard , hope he is somewhere better then here.
I'm so sorry for your loss, pain, and grief, and wish wholeheartedly that you find the peace and love you need in the near future. Bless.
Honestly still surprised they didn't go with remaking the first Silent Hill where i think that one truly needed a remake..im most curious with the combat and story aspects with the SH2 remake..
SH2 is where all the internet buzz is.
Ironically it's also the easiest, most accessible and best looking SH game currently out there.
@@GangsterFrankensteinComputer I'd say 3 and 4 are near that mark as well, honestly. But I definitely agree with you.
I honestly cant wait for this game to drop and have the community be at war from each other. OG Fans who will heavily critique the game for not being faitfhful from the source material and questionable choices the devs made vs. the "modern audience" who will absolutely eat this game up and defend it to their graves. Much like how they did it with the RE 2, 3 and 4 remake.
Its going to give me good drama so I'll make me some popcorn or a sandwich with MAYO on it while I watch the rest in chaos 😂
When this remake comes out I bet that on Twitter the war that will be between those who hate it and those who love it will be very big lol
Well, it's evident what side you are on.
Also, RE3 Remake was not well received but go off..
I just want to see the prison cut scene that will tell us everything, in the original the voice actor for both Maria and Mary transitions between both there personalities in what has to be the best acting in gaming then there's the little things how she starts the scene sitting crossed legged sitting lady like and when it ends she has her legs wide open, i mean we already got a taste of that scene redone in the HD collection where the new voice actress voices both Mary and Maria the same, like a sex line worker.
Agreed. I said this somewhere else too, people often criticize the acting in SH2, and fair enough, but I hate to see Monica Taylor Horgan swept under that same rug, because she was fantastic. The scene you mention is a great one, and of course there's the letter at the end. Overall she's wonderful throughout, maybe the best video game performance I've ever heard, especially from that era.
I'm getting the feeling that because it was showcased on the playstation thing that Maria, a sexualized version of his homely and sickly wife Mary is going to be totally covered. that's going to be total bullshit because that is literally apart of the story and a important part of the plot. James is mentally twisted, guilty and several other things. His whole version of silent hill that he sees is based on this. they should stick to it.
I don't think so. I think it will be pushed to show how bad a person James was and wanted another woman. Twisted? It took his desires, insecurities and twisted them.
Wow. You just made me realize there are even more aspects they can mess up than i thought, after i watched the Edward Norton trailer.
Sadly I already saw the reaction you talked about the moment it was announced that bloober team was handling the remake .I realy hope they don't listen, but I won't hold my breath. also kotaku's stupidity never cease to amaze.