Don't forget, RDT straight out stated that his head Canon is that EVERY doctor retroactively bigenerated because of The Toymaker's gift. As in, the series stays the same it has and each Doctor dies in all the spots each face does, however when they regenerate the old face (and Tardis) are left behind. So now there are 28 Doctors so far (or 22 depending on how the split regenerations, the hand, the refused regeneration, etc are considered). At the end of the day I don't care how. I'm just so HAPPY that he won his prize. He and Donna both can be happy and rest. (AND WILFRED!)
Yeah, retroactively making the past incarnations bigenerate makes no sense at all. I get you tho, always good to have a happy ending. Especially with 10/14 always getting the short end of the stick
@@toastedmushroom4095 Exactly, 10 FINALLY getting his happy ending legitimately had me in tears. Then when I saw Wilf at the end I was sobbing uncontrollably. THAT was all worth it. I get RTD's idea that the Toymaker is celestial being and his "gift" transcends time entirely so "The Doctor" meant any and all Doctors now, then, and forever. It's just cheap and lessens or eliminates the impact of their sacrifices. 10 didn't die for Wilf, 9 didn't die for Rose, 11 didn't die to save the Universe, etc. I am OK with the explanation that the Toymaker's "state of play" copied the Tardis though. Everyone thinks that it's the same Tardis just ripped from the future,, but he confirmed that's false. It is a duplicate of the Tardis, same Tardis, same space and tie, just copied for 14. Just like bigeneration was a copy of the Doctor with a new face and not his future self being ripped into the past. Although I'm sure many people would have preferred if the Doctor and Tardis were just ripped from the future instead of being copied and two (really 28) Doctors existing now lol
Honestly my favorite doctor would be Eccleston as the 9th doctor as that was the first season of Dr. Who I watched. Loved the adventures, even the scary ones like the empty child.
I dislike Bigeneration as happening, but see some ways to "improve" the story by making sense of it. Using previous lore of the show to explain what happened, such as the timeless child plot for example. But rather than calling back to a single point, use multiple. Add in the fresh set of regeneration that was given Matt Smiths Doctor, the timeless child story, him being freshly regenerated when hit by the laser, etc. Make it a problematic plot point. For example, that the bursts of regeneration energy are getting more and more powerful and out of control. That he has been self medicating without realizing it by channelling it into his own severed arm, River, and the Tardis but that it isn't enough anymore.
The Bi-generation was put into the show because Russell T Davies is useless at writing the Doctor correctly and the only way he can write him is to humanise him and sadly sexualise him. In Classic Who once it was established that the Doctor could regenerate and had two hearts they went with the more alien side of the Doctor. He’s supposed to be a mystery but delving into every aspect of the Doctors backstory and Time Lord breeding habits damages that mysterious enigmatic characterisation. Russell T Davies isn’t a favourite show runner of mine because he wants to get rid of all the things that worked so well in Classic Who. He’s a fantasy soap writer and his recent plots have been incredibly bad. Having the clothes regenerate was dumb because they’ve not made that mistake since the first regeneration when they were working out what worked. Tennant coming back was a bad idea for a show that’s always been about moving on. The Doctor doesn’t need to rest. The second Doctor said himself that regeneration is renewal.
I don't concur with the Timeless Child concept being, as you said, a _"rewriting of the lore of the Doctor without having any basis or hints towards them_ [that caused] _a ridiculous number of plot holes"_ since it's based upon the majority of the dropped lore points regarding the Doctor in the Classic Era, takes up every single one of the them and gives us an explanation capable of making sense for all in just one go. Writers preferred to ignore those points and rewrite them rather than dealing with them, indeed creating the plot holes in the first place; problem is they are still there, in the episodes of the Classic Era, clearly stated and shown and everytime you might return to them they will still be there. That concept is the most rooted one, in terms of lore of the show, of the entire series history. Unlike the Timeless Child concept, which gave us a solution for several old problems we as a community of fans preferred to ignored rather than deal with, the Bigeneration one is just flavour; and what's worse is its ambiguous nature pushed a whimsical part of the fandom to grab itself upon a single sentence as it were an irrefutable proof, rather than focusing on the complete picture. This tendency let to the conclusion Fifteenth is supposed to be the future incarnation of Fourteenth, when a great portion of the details introduced in some of the Series 1 episodes suggest they are actually two halfs of the same person (as you also mentioned in your personal theory). As implied in _"The Devil's Chord"_ by the Doctor himself with the sentence _"he literally torn my soul in half"_ , the Bigeneration did not recall a future incarnation to the present day: it literally split a person into two, with one half having all the trauma and another one being completely free of it. I've read and heard people disregarding that sentence in _"The Devil's Chord"_ as being just a metaphor, but I don't concur: I think that is the "real McCoy", and that the sentence in _"The Giggle"_ about the _"therapy done out of order"_ is the actual metaphor since, if taken seriously, it wouldn't make any sense (the Bigeneration is a myth, and the Doctor is the first Time Lord who had it - so the fact the Time Lords should make therapy out of order by default is not possible, unless is intended as a metaphor). And the series finale, in a way, confirms this: if Fourteenth was actually the past incarnation of Fifteenth, the latter should have remembered about the return of Sutekh and their deadly dust destroying life in the Universe, since it happened in the same time period in which Fourteenth is recovering on Earth. And, yet, Fifteenth does not evidently remember anything of such. And the answer is simple: Fourteenth and Fifteenth are not the past and the present; they are both the present version of themselves. Two halfs of the same person, divided.
Nothing after 12 was canon, imo. Because so much is just bad. The Timeless Child, "A male-presenting Doctor would never understand. Simply let it go." F this bs. I'm honestly pretty progressive, imo. I mean, I thought the 2 party system back in middle school, so I've been independent as long as I can remember... but thanks to the rise of MAGA Republicans and the insanity and Q-anon and everything... I definitely lean more Democrat these days. I support basically everything LGBT+ and am pro-choice on abortion and everything. I think maybe the father should get like a 1% say, but it's the mother's body. Her doctor's professional opinion/medical advice should also obviously be taken into consideration. However, it's the mother's body, it's her (or their or whatever) choice. But NOBODY likes this bs. Don't beat us over the head with your messaging. Especially some bs like that. Like men could never just give up power? And not only that but "NEVER UNDERSTAND" giving up power? F off. Honestly, I'd love to see Whitaker with competent writers and a good showrunner... which I thought would be RTD... but clearly not anymore. Unless that was a push from Disney? But eh. Whatever. Capaldi was the last Doctor.
I'm not a big fan of Bi-generation. The point is that the Doctor regenerates and becomes someone new, the old Doctor is left behind. Instead we have this weird limbo with the old Doctor still around and the new Doctor not able to properly take on the mantle of THE Doctor. If they were going to do something with the bi-generation, like a spin-off or having two Doctors simultaneously then it's fine but including Bi-generation only to do nothing with it feels like it is messing with the clean continuity of Doctor Who.
I’m hoping that they kinda do something with it. Like if they ever have something where they need more than one doctor they might be able to call on the 14th. But I guess we’ll have to wait and see
@@toastedmushroom4095Immediately after the bi-regeneration I was hoping that one or other of the two Doctors would somehow turn out to be the Valeyard. But it looks like RTD isn't planning on doing anything with it.
I've seen a couple of people who wanted that same thing. It does seem like a definitive ending which doesn't seem like it'll go in that direction. But, who knows? That could be the answer to the Valeyard and the curator
@@toastedmushroom4095 I'm sure the comics and Big Finish will do something big with it. Having him come back as the Valeyard when he's a bit older would be a great payoff for it.
There is only one Doctor. Upon death their genetic code re-writes itself and they continue to live. The old incarnation may seem to die, but they are simply folded into the new incarnation, who IS THE DOCTOR, who IS still the old incarnation. This is part of the reason why bi-generation makes no sense. It’s a needless gimmick and it suggests that RTD fundamentally doesn’t understand Doctor Who.
there's always the next Doctor. Hopefully one thats actually english and doesn't have a thick accent. I cant understand a word Gatwa says. I used subtitles in one episode and he had to make a gay bukkake facial joke. And its worse when the show runner said this new direction for the show is aimed at children. Oh dear BBC1.
None of that explains the TARDIS, and no, he would not have been gifted the ability to do that. That was the one thing I wanted an answer to because we've seen him split before. As you pointed out, and as the lore explains. Bi-generation wasn't the impossible feat here. 😭
I loved the specials, it felt like they brought back old doctor who. Technically hasn’t 10 bi-generated twice since the hand came directly from 10 and his extra regen. energy? Since 10 and 14 are the same ‘person’?
It’s kinda weird, but I think 10 and 14 while having the same like blueprint are still separate people. 14 while having a lot of 10 tendencies has a lot of mannerisms that are different
What was the point? If 15 cared as much about the dot bubblers as he blubbered, why didn't he tell 14 to come in and say, "Am I white enough? Allonsy!" Sure, RTD wanted 14 to be Little Red Riding Hood All Grown Up's bottom, but the payoff wasn't great. And didn't 14 even notice Sutekh?
Thank you for this theory about bi-generation Never thought of this theory but I like it and yes I do like the bi-generation As well as other theories
@@toastedmushroom4095 That’s what I like about Doctor Who among many other things I think they want us to put things together in our own head and use our minds and that’s great especially in British television ; I am American
my favorite doctor is probably easier to explain in the different eras my favorite classic doctor is either 7 or 2 with 4 being in 3rd place my favorite modern doctor is probably 12 or 11 with 10 being a good 3rd place for that era too. as for whatever this new era is i suppose 14 and 15 are the only new ones so imo 15 is my favorite so far.
I 100% agree. What I love about the show is they have such different doctors that there should be a favorite for everyone. I haven’t see too much of 7 unfortunately. But all the others I agree with
i hate when people do that "hey before i begin my video, like, comment and subscribe." Okay and say what???? Its the start of the video. And as you said, what if we dont like it?
@@toastedmushroom4095 Oh gosh. Don't do that. Place it after the first cool thing happens in the video, or wherever you want. You're a content creator. Don't bow to the whims of us randos in the comments section.
i stopped midway through Capaldi, i struggle with accents badly. I tried with Jodie but her that Scottish accent was took strong. Returned for Tennant's run. Very funny making a whole episode about anti vaxers, i mean "anti bracelets" people. And then Cutie Gatwa. Cant understand him. The accent again, way to thick. Had to put on subtitles on. And that musical episode.... what the hell??? Im sat there with my nephew and Gatwa is making bukkake jokes to a police man. My sister was soo mad at the show for that. for those who missed it, its when he tells the police man "sorry I just got snow manned." Thats a term used by gay men when you have several men stand around you and ejaculate over your face until it becomes a thick silvery slime that you them smear all over your face. And RTD and Gatwa have said this new show direction is aimed at children. And its on BBC1. Oh dear.
I didn’t know that’s what that joke meant. Personally, I think a lot of it isn’t bad per se. I can understand the accent things, I’m hyper fixated on accents and pronunciations of things so I didn’t have too much of a hard time. Hopefully tho, this next season will be one you enjoy
Don't forget, RDT straight out stated that his head Canon is that EVERY doctor retroactively bigenerated because of The Toymaker's gift.
As in, the series stays the same it has and each Doctor dies in all the spots each face does, however when they regenerate the old face (and Tardis) are left behind.
So now there are 28 Doctors so far (or 22 depending on how the split regenerations, the hand, the refused regeneration, etc are considered).
At the end of the day I don't care how.
I'm just so HAPPY that he won his prize.
He and Donna both can be happy and rest. (AND WILFRED!)
Yeah, retroactively making the past incarnations bigenerate makes no sense at all. I get you tho, always good to have a happy ending. Especially with 10/14 always getting the short end of the stick
@@toastedmushroom4095 Exactly, 10 FINALLY getting his happy ending legitimately had me in tears. Then when I saw Wilf at the end I was sobbing uncontrollably.
THAT was all worth it.
I get RTD's idea that the Toymaker is celestial being and his "gift" transcends time entirely so "The Doctor" meant any and all Doctors now, then, and forever.
It's just cheap and lessens or eliminates the impact of their sacrifices.
10 didn't die for Wilf, 9 didn't die for Rose, 11 didn't die to save the Universe, etc.
I am OK with the explanation that the Toymaker's "state of play" copied the Tardis though.
Everyone thinks that it's the same Tardis just ripped from the future,, but he confirmed that's false.
It is a duplicate of the Tardis, same Tardis, same space and tie, just copied for 14.
Just like bigeneration was a copy of the Doctor with a new face and not his future self being ripped into the past.
Although I'm sure many people would have preferred if the Doctor and Tardis were just ripped from the future instead of being copied and two (really 28) Doctors existing now lol
Honestly things like this make me think RTD has come back to Who simply to make it his playground; in the most irresponsible way possible.
The Immortal Child is actually a better title than the timeless child
It kinda is haha, I always call it that on accident
@@toastedmushroom4095 No worries, it's a great accident
Honestly my favorite doctor would be Eccleston as the 9th doctor as that was the first season of Dr. Who I watched. Loved the adventures, even the scary ones like the empty child.
That’s awesome! I have a couple of friends who say the same thing. I wish we could’ve gotten more with him
I liked Eccleston, but Tennant has to be my favorite. Was sad to see him go.
Im a bit grumpy about the entire new era tbh.
Your theory really makes the concept easier to digest.
Favourite doctor would have to be Capaldi ❤.
I’m glad I could help you out a little bit haha. Capaldi is a rockstar!
Perhaps when the time comes for the 15th doctor to regenerate, 14 and 15 will merge back together. Thus causing the regeneration into the 16th doctor.
That would kinda be cool, like the watcher and the 4th doctor in classic who!
I dislike Bigeneration as happening, but see some ways to "improve" the story by making sense of it. Using previous lore of the show to explain what happened, such as the timeless child plot for example. But rather than calling back to a single point, use multiple. Add in the fresh set of regeneration that was given Matt Smiths Doctor, the timeless child story, him being freshly regenerated when hit by the laser, etc.
Make it a problematic plot point. For example, that the bursts of regeneration energy are getting more and more powerful and out of control. That he has been self medicating without realizing it by channelling it into his own severed arm, River, and the Tardis but that it isn't enough anymore.
The Bi-generation was put into the show because Russell T Davies is useless at writing the Doctor correctly and the only way he can write him is to humanise him and sadly sexualise him. In Classic Who once it was established that the Doctor could regenerate and had two hearts they went with the more alien side of the Doctor. He’s supposed to be a mystery but delving into every aspect of the Doctors backstory and Time Lord breeding habits damages that mysterious enigmatic characterisation. Russell T Davies isn’t a favourite show runner of mine because he wants to get rid of all the things that worked so well in Classic Who. He’s a fantasy soap writer and his recent plots have been incredibly bad. Having the clothes regenerate was dumb because they’ve not made that mistake since the first regeneration when they were working out what worked. Tennant coming back was a bad idea for a show that’s always been about moving on. The Doctor doesn’t need to rest. The second Doctor said himself that regeneration is renewal.
All very valid points. I’ll have to see more with this new doctor in hopes that that can maybe be changed
I couldn’t agree more
I don't concur with the Timeless Child concept being, as you said, a _"rewriting of the lore of the Doctor without having any basis or hints towards them_ [that caused] _a ridiculous number of plot holes"_ since it's based upon the majority of the dropped lore points regarding the Doctor in the Classic Era, takes up every single one of the them and gives us an explanation capable of making sense for all in just one go. Writers preferred to ignore those points and rewrite them rather than dealing with them, indeed creating the plot holes in the first place; problem is they are still there, in the episodes of the Classic Era, clearly stated and shown and everytime you might return to them they will still be there. That concept is the most rooted one, in terms of lore of the show, of the entire series history.
Unlike the Timeless Child concept, which gave us a solution for several old problems we as a community of fans preferred to ignored rather than deal with, the Bigeneration one is just flavour; and what's worse is its ambiguous nature pushed a whimsical part of the fandom to grab itself upon a single sentence as it were an irrefutable proof, rather than focusing on the complete picture. This tendency let to the conclusion Fifteenth is supposed to be the future incarnation of Fourteenth, when a great portion of the details introduced in some of the Series 1 episodes suggest they are actually two halfs of the same person (as you also mentioned in your personal theory).
As implied in _"The Devil's Chord"_ by the Doctor himself with the sentence _"he literally torn my soul in half"_ , the Bigeneration did not recall a future incarnation to the present day: it literally split a person into two, with one half having all the trauma and another one being completely free of it.
I've read and heard people disregarding that sentence in _"The Devil's Chord"_ as being just a metaphor, but I don't concur: I think that is the "real McCoy", and that the sentence in _"The Giggle"_ about the _"therapy done out of order"_ is the actual metaphor since, if taken seriously, it wouldn't make any sense (the Bigeneration is a myth, and the Doctor is the first Time Lord who had it - so the fact the Time Lords should make therapy out of order by default is not possible, unless is intended as a metaphor).
And the series finale, in a way, confirms this: if Fourteenth was actually the past incarnation of Fifteenth, the latter should have remembered about the return of Sutekh and their deadly dust destroying life in the Universe, since it happened in the same time period in which Fourteenth is recovering on Earth. And, yet, Fifteenth does not evidently remember anything of such.
And the answer is simple: Fourteenth and Fifteenth are not the past and the present; they are both the present version of themselves.
Two halfs of the same person, divided.
Great video!
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it! You have great videos as well
@@toastedmushroom4095 :)
🔥🔥🔥
Nothing after 12 was canon, imo. Because so much is just bad. The Timeless Child, "A male-presenting Doctor would never understand. Simply let it go." F this bs. I'm honestly pretty progressive, imo. I mean, I thought the 2 party system back in middle school, so I've been independent as long as I can remember... but thanks to the rise of MAGA Republicans and the insanity and Q-anon and everything... I definitely lean more Democrat these days. I support basically everything LGBT+ and am pro-choice on abortion and everything. I think maybe the father should get like a 1% say, but it's the mother's body. Her doctor's professional opinion/medical advice should also obviously be taken into consideration. However, it's the mother's body, it's her (or their or whatever) choice. But NOBODY likes this bs. Don't beat us over the head with your messaging. Especially some bs like that. Like men could never just give up power? And not only that but "NEVER UNDERSTAND" giving up power? F off.
Honestly, I'd love to see Whitaker with competent writers and a good showrunner... which I thought would be RTD... but clearly not anymore. Unless that was a push from Disney? But eh. Whatever. Capaldi was the last Doctor.
no it make no sense unless the doctor got cut in half
That would’ve been cool too. But the question then becomes, cut down the middle vertically or horizontally?
@@toastedmushroom4095Diagonally, they've got two hearts, they'll figure it out 🤣
you could make the Valeyard canon thanks to Bi-Regeneration
I'm not a big fan of Bi-generation. The point is that the Doctor regenerates and becomes someone new, the old Doctor is left behind. Instead we have this weird limbo with the old Doctor still around and the new Doctor not able to properly take on the mantle of THE Doctor. If they were going to do something with the bi-generation, like a spin-off or having two Doctors simultaneously then it's fine but including Bi-generation only to do nothing with it feels like it is messing with the clean continuity of Doctor Who.
I’m hoping that they kinda do something with it. Like if they ever have something where they need more than one doctor they might be able to call on the 14th. But I guess we’ll have to wait and see
@@toastedmushroom4095Immediately after the bi-regeneration I was hoping that one or other of the two Doctors would somehow turn out to be the Valeyard. But it looks like RTD isn't planning on doing anything with it.
I've seen a couple of people who wanted that same thing. It does seem like a definitive ending which doesn't seem like it'll go in that direction. But, who knows? That could be the answer to the Valeyard and the curator
@@toastedmushroom4095 I'm sure the comics and Big Finish will do something big with it. Having him come back as the Valeyard when he's a bit older would be a great payoff for it.
I really think so too!
There is only one Doctor. Upon death their genetic code re-writes itself and they continue to live. The old incarnation may seem to die, but they are simply folded into the new incarnation, who IS THE DOCTOR, who IS still the old incarnation. This is part of the reason why bi-generation makes no sense. It’s a needless gimmick and it suggests that RTD fundamentally doesn’t understand Doctor Who.
Trust me, without this theory kinda making me feel better, I was in the same boat. I like my things to make sense especially in relation to Doctor Who
Haven’t watched Doctor Who yet but after watching this I will have to!
I’m saying! Honestly, first couple of episodes are a little rough, but once you get through those it’s like you can’t stop
Doctor who more like doctor what am I right Ha! Ha! I'll see my way out 🚶🏽♂️➡️
I go by the name Mr. How. As in, how do you do? 🧐
there's always the next Doctor. Hopefully one thats actually english and doesn't have a thick accent. I cant understand a word Gatwa says. I used subtitles in one episode and he had to make a gay bukkake facial joke. And its worse when the show runner said this new direction for the show is aimed at children.
Oh dear BBC1.
None of that explains the TARDIS, and no, he would not have been gifted the ability to do that. That was the one thing I wanted an answer to because we've seen him split before. As you pointed out, and as the lore explains. Bi-generation wasn't the impossible feat here. 😭
Wibbly Wobbly!!
Timey whimey my brother
I loved the specials, it felt like they brought back old doctor who.
Technically hasn’t 10 bi-generated twice since the hand came directly from 10 and his extra regen. energy? Since 10 and 14 are the same ‘person’?
It’s kinda weird, but I think 10 and 14 while having the same like blueprint are still separate people. 14 while having a lot of 10 tendencies has a lot of mannerisms that are different
Yeah you could argue that it was basically bi-generation.
What was the point? If 15 cared as much about the dot bubblers as he blubbered, why didn't he tell 14 to come in and say, "Am I white enough? Allonsy!" Sure, RTD wanted 14 to be Little Red Riding Hood All Grown Up's bottom, but the payoff wasn't great. And didn't 14 even notice Sutekh?
Thank you for this theory about bi-generation
Never thought of this theory but I like it and yes I do like the bi-generation As well as other theories
Hey, thank you so much. It was born from me trying to make it make sense in my brain haha
@@toastedmushroom4095 That’s what I like about Doctor Who among many other things I think they want us to put things together in our own head and use our minds and that’s great especially in British television ; I am American
my favorite doctor is probably easier to explain in the different eras
my favorite classic doctor is either 7 or 2 with 4 being in 3rd place
my favorite modern doctor is probably 12 or 11 with 10 being a good 3rd place for that era too.
as for whatever this new era is i suppose 14 and 15 are the only new ones so imo 15 is my favorite so far.
I 100% agree. What I love about the show is they have such different doctors that there should be a favorite for everyone. I haven’t see too much of 7 unfortunately. But all the others I agree with
Why should I hit like before I watch? What if I don’t like it?
That’s a fair point, I wanted to make sure I didn’t forget to put it in the video lol
i hate when people do that "hey before i begin my video, like, comment and subscribe."
Okay and say what???? Its the start of the video. And as you said, what if we dont like it?
I’ll make sure to put it at the end next time
@@toastedmushroom4095 Oh gosh. Don't do that. Place it after the first cool thing happens in the video, or wherever you want. You're a content creator. Don't bow to the whims of us randos in the comments section.
I appreciate that. That’s a pretty cool idea, I never thought to put it somewhere in the moddle
i stopped midway through Capaldi, i struggle with accents badly. I tried with Jodie but her that Scottish accent was took strong. Returned for Tennant's run. Very funny making a whole episode about anti vaxers, i mean "anti bracelets" people. And then Cutie Gatwa. Cant understand him. The accent again, way to thick. Had to put on subtitles on. And that musical episode.... what the hell??? Im sat there with my nephew and Gatwa is making bukkake jokes to a police man. My sister was soo mad at the show for that.
for those who missed it, its when he tells the police man "sorry I just got snow manned." Thats a term used by gay men when you have several men stand around you and ejaculate over your face until it becomes a thick silvery slime that you them smear all over your face. And RTD and Gatwa have said this new show direction is aimed at children. And its on BBC1. Oh dear.
I didn’t know that’s what that joke meant. Personally, I think a lot of it isn’t bad per se. I can understand the accent things, I’m hyper fixated on accents and pronunciations of things so I didn’t have too much of a hard time. Hopefully tho, this next season will be one you enjoy