Rose isn't for everyone and I get that, but is it really necessary to put her down? She is beautiful, kind, has so much inner strength, was able to make it across universes, WITHOUT the Doctor's help, helped to retrieve the timeline by getting through to Donna in turn left, and the list goes on for reasons why I and so many others love her but you get my drift. I think it's perfectly cool for you to love Martha and she deserves the love but knowing two languages doesn't make anyone better than anyone else. I know three, does that mean I'm the greatest person in the world according to your criterion? Didn't think so. Anyways, your videos are awesome and I love them you do such amazing work and I wish you the best
Meta Crisis Doctor starts to write a paper after becoming a PHYSICS, physics, physics teacher and utters the line: “best temp in Chiswick 100 words per minute “
I’ve always thought, what would’ve happened to Jack had he been caught in the testing of the reality bomb? He’s a fixed point in time but then davros says that not even time itself can escape, or something like that. It’s a question I’ll probably be asking till the day I die and I’m not sure if I really want an answer 😅
@@WeLhOOse To be fair, this is a guy who had to wait until the rest of the world became immortal just to finally feel what its like to die again... I would imagine it'd probably be like when Abbadon absorbed his lives until it died. He'd probably be just be stuck there in space and perpetually die and come back until something happens to come by and pick his body up.
46:00 the most painful part of donna's departure for me is the doctor telling her once more that he's leaving, only for her to give him the cold shoulder. the "yeah, cya" just kills me after watching all of series 4 and how good they are for eachother
Donna is best companion. Unlike Rose and Martha, who fell in love with the Doctor, Donna and Doctor was more "sibling" in their relationship, and that made it oh so much better of a companionship. So just thinking about her departure gets me choked up.
Honestly the best thing about this entire two-parter is Harriet Jones. In just three stories she got one of the greatest character arcs of anyone in the Whoniverse.
Harriet Jones grows so much in those 3 episodes, from no power but desire for change, to having all of the power but following the status quo, to finally taking charge of her own power as THE Harriet Jones and saves the entire world. It's such a beautiful arc and I would honestly die for a mini series that's simply about the trials and tribulations of chasing her career as a plucky young MP for Flydale North and the impact of her interactions with the Doctor on WHY she is interested in Politics.
It's not just that she forgot, it's that the time she spent with the doctor built up her self worth and now she's back to thinking the worst of herself
Like everything except for the Rose hate. Everyone ignores while talking about companion achievements, Rose managed to find a way back to the main universe without the help of the Doctor. She learned a lot from him and become an important figure of Torchwood. She managed to use Tardis so Donna can change the timelines. That is a far bigger achievement than any other companion did because there were no outside help or supernatural powers. She did that herself
Because she's the symptom of where the actual rot started. For one thing, she was the original 'Princess Destiny Sassypants' template of the girl who was always meant to set foot in the TARDIS from the moment she was born and turn into a plot-resolving deus ex machina just in time for the finale. I get that the reboot didn't want girls who are just screaming herobait that sprain their ankles in a stiff breeze anymore but Rose, Donna, Clara, they all ended up playing _ridiculously_ significant parts in the Doctor's life instead of being just adventurous girls of character and bravery joining him on his adventures. This got old _very_ quickly and it started with Rose. Secondly, it was where Davies dialled up the Doctor-Companion romance angle to 11. The Companions are not supposed to be the Doctor's lovers. They're his family. He's the dad or the big brother or the uncle, _not_ the lover (and frankly, I'm sick and tired of URT in sci-fi, so I found Donna very refreshing... until they brought Rose back again like a bad smell for her last three episodes and actually _crapped out a whole new Doctor_ for her happy ending). All of this actually retroscrewed Doc-13. Ironically, it would've been easier to have a female Doctor in the classic era when the character was still relatively sexless. As it is, Davies 'masculinized' the character like this and just made the problems a later female Doctor would face even worse, particularly when Moffat fell back on his B-list sitcom background and piled years of useless comic relief males and bloke jokes on top of that. My personal favorite of the new era has been Martha Jones. It's a shame she only got the one year. She was everything you would hope for from a good Companion, smart, brave, compassionate, respectful (the scene where she gently encourages the Doctor to remember his lost home is a nice moment ), supportive without dragging on the spotlight and she actually _worked_ for the resolution of her story. There was no magic swirly stuff that turned her into a Time Goddess, no cracks in reality that let her 'remember' the Doctor back to life. No, she walked a desolate Earth through wind, sleet, and snow avoiding flying murder-bots for a _year_ to spread the Doctor's story and give him that brief moment he needed to turn the tables. Martha was kickass. Granted, I could've lived without the Doctor crush they saddled her with but ... whaddaya gonna do? 🤷♂ Apparently, _every_ single straight girl in the show had to carry a chick-boner for Tennant. Matter of fact, I'd say that season was the best overall of the reboot era, meaning how it hung together as a whole object. Great new Companion, the story arc was solid, the Professor Yana twist was excellent, return of a great classic villain and the resolution felt earned.
@@The_Mighty_Fiction I'll say this about the thirteenth doctor: My gripe isn't that the Doctor became a *she* but rather that I think it is a missed opportunity. It's my own bias but when I heard "the Doctor is gonna be female!", my thought is "Jenny gonna be on the show again? Wonderful!" She represents a missed opportunity in my opinion. The Doctor is hundreds or even thousands of years old (I've been told 12th Doctor Capaldi reached the billions in age) so there can be a sense that he/she knows it all, has seen it all and can come up with the right answer for whatever threat appears that week. If Jenny were to take the stage, carry on in the Doctor's footsteps and explore time and space from a fresh perspective where she doesn't have all the answers and everything is new... I'm not making my point as eloquently as I did when I first made this gripe but the Doctor's daughter is out there and I still hold onto some hope that she'll be seen again even if Georgia isn't playing the role.
I’m just now realizing these episodes are what 11 was talking about with Amy in Victory of The Daleks. “Planets in the sky, you don’t forget that. Amy. Tell me you remember the Daleks.”
@@bignaaasty5096 It was the crack. Remember when it took Rory and it was like he never existed? It was explained that just being in proximity of the crack in her house for so long, it took a lot of her life from her and she never even knew, like Rory. For instance, she couldn't remember her parents either. It was a big house that only she lived in and because of the nature of the rift, she never even questioned it. That's why she couldn't remember other things like the planets in the sky.
@@1Xaria Yea but those were massive events that just happened that would shape the planet and society as a whole. You'd probably hear people talking about it all the time especially since it had just happened. It's really just not explained well at all. Also Rory didn't remember the planets in the sky either. He didn't live in the house.
One thing I need to add about the scenes where Martha is in Germany: That is some of THE best German I have ever heard characters speak in non-German productions. For example in TeenWolf Season 6, even I as a German can't understand what they are supposed to be saying and here they speak flawless German with just the tiniest accent and I absolutely love this. And I love how the old German lady has just a slight German accent while speaking English and not that horrible blatantly over the top German accent (that I unfortunately had to listen to every time in English class because most Germans really are that bad at speaking English)
Amirite? When she ended up in Germany and the Daleks started speaking German I was like oh no this is gonna be cursed, but Martha's German is totally fine with a bit of an accent. The old lady seemed a bit weird to me because she spoke German with a bit of an English accent and English with a bit of a German one, but generally I thought they did a great job, same with the German woman in Waters of Mars and the radio message in The Eleventh Hour.
I like to believe that the Doctor left a little hope for the audience concerning Donna. He called out Silvia. He pointed out one of the main sources of Donna's dismal view of her own self worth, her own mother. When we see the family again I get the feeling she's a lot more accepting of her daughter. Now that she knows who she truly is and who she has been, I like to think that she encourages her to be that again.
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@Jessica Able, I think your view was ultimately shown at the conclusion of the 2009 specials -- apparently Donna gained enough sense of self-worth to find someone to love and marry.
I feel like this finale is best on first watch if you're going through the show in chronological order, just so you can appreciate all the characters and the arc. Watching it out of order and standalone, it just feels like all spectacle and not a huge amount of depth.
That's true. Doctor who is sometimes an episodic show where each episode requires a beginning and an end and everything a story needs in between but sometimes it's a serialised show and with most of the finales in RTDs era the finales are the pay off to all the build up from before. So the depth of this story is about the characters and everything that was built since the first series. I don't think it requires the amount of depth something like midnight or silence in the library did and I don't think its a problem that it requires you to watch the series in chronological order to be enjoyable. That's what's so great about modern who. It's not always about stand alone stories you can pop out of order. You can have that and you can also have a serialised drama to enjoy in chronological order.
I honestly kind of liked the fact that Donna saved the day because she's always overlooked and so I viewed it as Davros not seeing her as a threat and that being his downfall. But that's just me
Also calls back to what Harriet Jones said, they don’t understand humans and that would always be their downfall. Donna’s creativity and tenacity mixed with time lord genius was something that Davros never even considered.
I reckon if Christopher Eccleston hadn't fallen out with the show, the plan would have been to have 9 come in, rescue Donna and then attack Davros. The whole infinity war thing of coming together was just missing one thing and that was him. Still, it was an absolutely amazing story anyway and an incredible series finale.
@@slevinchannel7589 maybe you think it changes it "for the worse" but in reality all it does is help to reflect the real world. boohoo gay people exist boohoo women can be main characters. cry about it.
The way I make sense of the "That button there" scene is that Donna programs the button herself, rather than having a random 'this breaks everything' button already sat there 🙂
I always saw it as davros was the mastermind behind the Daleks, and while he may not have personally built the crucible, he more than likely had a major hand in designing it. Given his previous track record with butting heads with the daleks and being offed by them more than once (to my memory), it would make sense that he snuck that console into the design specs in case he needed to take control, without the daleks ever being the wiser, even sneaking on those rotators that were clearly built to fit the plunger replacers to make it look like it was made for the daleks also. Both seem like perfectly plausible explanations for it
'That button there' can work well. 'Family of Blood' ended a bit like that, with the Doctor explaining why it was important with his characteristic technobabble. Donna did that a little bit. When it's done poorly, it's the Eleventh Doctor black cubes episode.
Definitely Modern Who's best series finale. You really get the sense that this is the ultimate fight. And of course, we've got a gathering of practically everyone from the RTD-era coming together in this huge emergency. None of the Moffat-era finales ever came close to topping the scale and stakes of this story. Sadly, it marks the beginning of the end of the golden age of Modern Doctor Who.
the resolution was way too weak. Moffat knew how to end stories and arcs without using deus ex machinas like RTD did. it was my least favourite part about RTD's otherwise amazing writing.
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@@slevinchannel7589"correct fans who say newer is better" this is why no one wants to be part of the Doctor Who fandom. Y'all are so petty and pathetic. Can't just like what you like about it you all have to "prove" that what you like is the only thing anyone should like. Especially the guy making these videos. He's the epitome of what people think of when they think of a Doctor Who fan and it's just sad. If he doesn't like it no one should, and he'll try and tell you why you're wrong for having your own opinion about the show. I don't know why I keep forgetting and watching another video about Doctor Who because it's always one of his videos and it's always this same crap. Hopefully you all grow up one day.
I love that she is one of the most normal companions of them all. She isn't special bc of destiny, because she is well educated or something, she is one of the few characters in newWho who (especially considering what Moffat did with his companions) is neither important, nor overly intelligent. She doesn't need to speak multiple languages to be a good companion. She's curious, has a good heart and built a relationship with the doctor. Caring and being brave are the only requirements and she does those.
@@skynikan I absolutely adore Rose for those exact reasons. I really like Martha as well but didn't understand the suggestion that she's better because she speaks multiple languages. I myself speak English, Spanish and Italian but never would I imply this makes me better than anyone.
I'm replacing my original comment with this as I feel it's worth saying. My explanation for the "Crucible Manipulation Panel in the basement" that Donna uses to destroy the Daleks was put there by Dalek Caan. He'd been manipulating time causing the Doctor and Donna to become intertwined with eachother, so it's likely he vaguely knew how the problem would be resolved by being able to see the future, so made sure that would happen. He was seen as a mad old seer by the Daleks, so it's likely that they'd listen to his mad ramblings as some prophecy that needed to be fulfilled, so they'd follow his instructions. Including ones on how to design the crucible, including the computer bank in the Crucible's basement.
My thoughts exactly. Dalek Caan had that console put there specifically for the Doctor-Donna to use, no coincidence involved. He engineered the entire situation with the Doctor and all of the companions specifically to get the end result that happened, so of course it was all just part of the plan.
I love how you can see the fear in ianto's eyes at 'exterminate' because it reminds you of the last time torchwood encountered them, at the battle of Canary Wharf. He was there, he was one of a handful of survivors, who dragged his partially converted cyber-girlfriend from the aftermath and fought his way into three to attempt to save her. He probably head or possibly even saw the massacre of his colleagues as the battle raged. He was Yvonne's PA it's amazing he wasn't there when the cybermen arrived or the daleks came out of the sphere. He has trauma from the battle that's barely touched at past the cyberwoman episode of torchwood. his experience at Canary Wharf is also why he tells gwen that the guns won't work. he knowns they wont from experience
@@jameshudson395 you’ve got the time and energy to read what he put and complain bout it “matey”. Use your time more productively instead of tearing down other people because of something you don’t agree with. It’s pathetic and sad
@@tvguy61 he doesn’t appear in the episode but from Torchwood s1 ep 4 CyberWoman we know he was there that day cos he pulled lisa (his half converted girlfriend) out of the building in the immediate aftermath
I think a possible reason for why captain jack Harkness didn't have to have such a dramatic revival in this episode is because he didn't for the others he just chose to. He's such a dramatic character and likes attention so he did it mostly for show in previous episodes but now he knows he has to stay secretive so he doesn't.
The stuff you mention about Harriet Jones and Francine being spoiled is really common in US TV shows. Multiple times I've watched shows like Arrow, where it shows names of actors who play well known characters, like John Barrowman, straight after the opening titles bit, spoiling what would have otherwise been a surprise appearance of his character. It bugs me so much when shows spoil character reveals in that way.
Jesus, it’s taken me a fucking age to remember who both Francine and Jenny (Jenny from another comment) were. I’ve literally just rewatched series 1 through 7 as well. I need to get some more sleep man 😂
Also yeah, I somewhat agree. “Spoilers” don’t really bother me that much, I watched both infinity war and end game knowing basically the full plots, but I can perfectly understand why they piss people off. The one time I can remember where something like that was done really well was in the walking dead when Nicholas shot himself and him and Glenn fell into the hoard of walkers, Steven Yuen’s name wasn’t shown in the credits for the next few episodes, matched with what looked like Glenn being ripped apart when they fell when it was actually Nicholas’s dead body, really gave the impression he had died, and then he showed up without any indication prior that he would do
@@WeLhOOse I remember that specific example. That was around the point I started to stop watching The Walking Dead just because of it getting a biy samey. Although 6 months later I saw people posting within minutes of aj episode ending that Glenn had died and these were people I'd seen before complaining when people spoiled episodes a week after they aired. Seemed quite ridiculous that they themselves would do the sane.
I really love how Caan becomes essentially the dalek version of the Doctor with how he claims ‘no more’. While we don’t really get a major reaction it feels similar to the doctors reaction to dalek sec becoming human, how he actually can appreciate them for their actions despite being dalek
I’m not sure if this was intentional but did anyone notice how near the end of journey’s end the people who went to stay at Pete’s world they wear blue clothes and the people who go back to the original world wear brown. It’s very weird
I noticed specifically that Rose and the Meta-Crisis Doctor both color-coordinated with dark blue 💙 suits and wine (or would you call it magenta 💜) tops.
The thing about the 'button' to turn off the reality bomb, is that I never assumed it existed there originally, that we just missed the Donna/Doctor hacking the system and more or less turning this button (which could have originally been just designed so that Davros could get someone to clean out his piss pot) into a button that turned off the reality bomb etc... I always thought it was weird that people thought this thing existed there, and not that Donna more or less had reprogrammed it before popping into the scene. I just assumed that entire scene was another one of those TV/movie hackers scene where the hacker is able to just reprogram anything, simply because they are connected to the network.
my fave new series episode, I remember gushing when Sarah Jane and Davros came face to face once more... this was RTD's magnum opus and will always be the new era's magnum opus.
One thing I find really underrated about this finale is the threat. Some people often just think of this as another universe ending finale threat but it’s incredible how much ground work was done to make it even bigger with the concept of parallel universes coming into play again and for the first and so far only time the entire multiverse is at threat which I find incredibly tense and emblematic of Russell’s brilliant foresight as it wasn’t just pulled out of nowhere as the concept of a multiverse has been present in quite a few Russel stories.
It's even MORE than the multiverse! It's all of REALITY! Not just every possible universe, of every possible multiverse, but every dimension as well! It's EVERYTHING!
@@cathiejey8430 Do you mind if I ask why you dislike her? I'm just genuinely curious because I've seen people hate her but never got a really clear reason as to why.
@@quivygm sure! Of course I don't mind. This might be very long to read through btw. Edit: This is a lot! omg im so sorry!! Firstly, I'd like to say that I did like rose the first time I watched through Davies era, mainly in series 1. I really enjoyed the relationship between nine and rose because it reminded me of the mentor-student interaction seven and ace had, and I loved that dynamic a lot. Also rose in series 1 was naive but that nativity was what made her compassionate and caring. So yeah rose was great at the start and I always enjoyed rewatching series 1. Series 2 on the other hand became more of a chore to watch as time went past. Firstly, The romance with ten and rose was never something I invested myself into even when I was a impressionable kid. Though ten had a fairly young appearance, the doctor at this point over 900 years old and rose was 19/20; I just find the romance a bit creepy considering this big age gap. Also it was obviously that Russell T Davies himself was in love with Rose. In love with the his own creation which isn't always a good thing. It's the same thing with Moffat and Clara (though I like Clara a bit more for other reasons) where the writer seems to force us to like these characters by showing how incredible/special they are and for some people, it works but for others it just comes off as distasteful. I also did not like the way Rose treated people like Mickey and Jackie who were all but kind to her. They might not be a thousand year old timelord, the myth of legends etc but they still supported rose and did the little things to show their care for her. I know a lot of people don't like Mickey and find him irritable. I personally I never thought of him this way, mainly because I would probably act the same way as Mickey if I ever saw weird dangerous aliens etc. However, when rose went missing for a whole year in series 1, Mickey was thought to be the one behind her disappearance and was almost charged with suspicion of murder. So when rose returns and Mickey tells her how much pain he went through because of the doctor's carelessness, she just looks so unbothered by it. No remorse at all as if Mickey's suffering was nothing. You can tell that the longer rose travelled with the doctor, and sees all the things she shows her, when she goes back home and is re-exposed to the problems humans usually face, she doesn't deem them to be as important as what she and the doctor faces in their adventures. She treated Mickey horribly once she met the doctor, casting them aside as if their whole past/ childhood together was nothing and of course that would make Mickey feel worthless. I don't even blame Mickey for wanting to stay in the parallel world because the doctor and rose treated him like dirt. Rose's face in School Reunion when Mickey first asked the doctor if he could join the Tardis team, just shows how much she's come to 'dislike' Mickey and prefer the doctor instead. It's one thing to not like someone anymore and it's one thing to completely invalidate their existence so I am proud of Mickey of seeing through this mistreat and starting to fight on his own accord. No more being just the 'tin dog' With Jackie, it's a bit different. Even though you could say Jackie was annoying and whiny, you have to admit that she was a good and caring mother. She had to raise up Rose all by herself as a single mother and seen her grow up into the person she is. So when in Doomsday, the doctor tells Rose that she needs to go back to Pete's world with Jackie, Mickey etc and rose refuses to go without the doctor, I immediately lost all respect for her. I don't know if this is a cultural thing but the fact that rose was willing to sacrifice, not seeing her mother at all, for someone who hasn't been in her life barely as much as Jackie, was insane to me. I know eventually everyone leaves their family behind, but usually you'll see them on special occasions. Rose wouldn't be able to do that if Jackie was trapped on a parallel world. Rose rarely thinks about what her mother has gone through while she was travelling around. The constant dread she must have had, preparing for the heartbreak when she might never see her daughter again. To me it seems like series 2 rose only goes back home because she has to, not because she wants to. So once series 2 ends, I thought "okay doomsday gave a nice ending to Rose's development and I'm ready for something completely new" but we didn't get that. Throughout series 3 and 4 we just bombarded with more rose. I think the main reason people love rose is because she was probably a lot of people's first companion and at the time when doctor who came out, people weren't very used to a rotating cast. So when rose leaves and martha comes along, people automatically started comparing martha, saying that she will never be good as rose. It didn't help that even in series 3, the doctor just doesn't shut up about rose. Every single time Martha tried to help, you just hear the doctor say 'oh rose would've known what to do' which weird because no rose wouldn't know what to do at all. She's human. She hasn't seen a lot of what's there even though she argues that she has and knows the doctor more than anyone. Overall I just don't like the importance that was placed on rose as the doctor's true love because it just excused her to do some shitty things and it seems that she has lost her sense of self while she was with the doctor. Loss that sense of humanity that made series 1 rose so incredible. A clear indication of her character change can be seen when seeing how in series 1 rose showed mercy to a dalek but in series 2 she threatened a dalek and acted like she was superior than everyone. So yeah. Obviously rose is not the worse companion. She has done a lot of good things especially in series 4 with the whole saving the world thing that went on but if we're just talking series 1 and 2 where she was the main companion, unfortunately she would be far from my favourites list But that's just my opinion. If you like rose then I have no problem with that and no one should have a problem with that since at the end of the day, she is still a fictional character in a scifi show :)
“Yeah Rose, you were replaced with someone better. Take that.” I think we can all agree Martha is better but gosh Harbo really put all his energy into roasting Rose today!
The irony of that is that, even though I agree with harbo, I’m not overly fond of Martha either, or specifically during series 3. Don’t know what it is about her but I just didn’t find myself being that emotionally attached to her character. I liked rose with 9 but not with 10 and for the same reasons. For me Donna was the best of Tenant’s companions, honourable mentions going to Jack and Mickey also.
28:48 I have to disagree there. Martha isn't "better" than Rose. Keep in mind, when the Doctor picked up Rose, she was just a teenager. She still lived at her mothers home, starting her career with jobs. Martha, on the other hand, was a full accomplished medical Doctor, when *the* Doctor met her the first time. So she is definitely bilingual (when you study medicine, you learn latin in the process). When you understand both, latin and english, it isn't a big step to learn italian and pronounce (not yet understand) german properly. German and Yiddish are very similiar, heading for another language in the process. I think you got the idea by now. Martha isn't "better" than Rose, she is just much more experienced and better educated (means no offence to Rose).
i think it was just him kinda being sarchastic cuz he hates Rose, but also studying Latin doesn't make it that easy to know German, and anyways, bilingual is not necessarily 'better' or 'smarter' but when you compare Martha and Rose without the doctor, Martha is a determined, accomplished, intelligent companion, who was kinda underwritten in later episodes but made a strong introduction in Smith and Jones. I think they're both awesome, and Rose certainly ended up kicking much more ass by literally becoming a god and destroying the dalek's multiple times. Also I don't hate her but i can understand this guy since she is quite overrated and does act a tad brattish in season 2
Ah, but she wasn’t a full accomplished medical doctor though was she. She still had exams and the rest of medical school to go through when they met, as she mentions a few times in series 3
I personally think that Stolen Earth and Journey's End is my personal favourite Doctor Who two-part finale as it incorporates everything I love about the expanded universe and putting it onto the main stage, in a respectful and caring way. Not to mention that the story, music, acting and plot threads are all fantastic, despite some small, but totally forgiveable narrative hiccups here and there.
I really love these deep dives into Who episodes, but the constant Rose hate kind of sours the experience sometimes :/. I get it, Martha is incredible; but we can't all be a Martha Jones, some of us just are a Rose, but we still have value. Yeah, probably taking it too personally, but w.e
I’ll never forget being 11 sitting with my friends seeing the 10th doctor going to regenerate and believing hed gone and we all jumped up screaming “NOOOOOO” so much nostalgia in this two part!!
@@orangepizzaparty688 Oh damn we have to wait *that* long? Fair enough though, because I'm sure that making these full-series videos are quite time-consuming and he needs a break. Where exactly did he say that? (If it's somewhere in this video I admit I didn't watch the whole thing just yet, so please provide a time stamp if you could. Nice username btw).
Oh and also i hate the moralising about the metacrisis doctor killing the daleks. Like what the hell else was he supposed to do. All Daleks MUST be destroyed and its foolish to suggest otherwise
It’s like he thought the bomb would detonate earlier and made a big declaration and then awkwardly realised he had longer to wait than he thought. The supreme Dalek just moved the goalposts for sh**s and giggles to mess with him.
@@smbsuperfan271 Indeed. In fact, we're fairly plentiful, but I don't suppose that many chances to randomly bring it up come up. It's actually my favourite game ever, even based my channel banner/logo on its logo. Haven't really spoken about it in my videos as of yet though. Seems hard to do such a work of art justice.
I wouldn’t say it beats it Both have all of reality almost get destroyed and only at the very end it’s averted In fact the alternate realities being ahead of the main universe is really similar to the dimensions getting destroyed one after the other
@@DogsRNice The difference is that at least the Daleks intended to survive the reality bomb, whereas Count Bleck was going to kill and destroy everything, himself included.
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26:23 I think that the gasping for air could be down to him not expecting to be killed. In this instance, he provoked them to kill him. In Torchwood, he gets shot in the head, but he silently gets up again. He saw it coming. Or, it could be that they usually make a big deal of him coming back to life in DW, so that young viewers truly understood that he died and wasn't just knocked out. RTD Doctor Who is the peak.
I don’t know mate, we’ve seen him a few times in torchwood expect to be killed but every time he comes back gasping for air. The only other exception to this being when Suzie shot him in the first episode, and I guess when he came back after the 456 virus, but there was still a little gasp even then
@@HarboWholmes Russell T Davies has said that very early on the writing process, instead of building an improvised gun, the Metacrisis Doctor was going to go back to the Shadow Proclamation, whip them up into a frenzy and lead a Judoon battle fleet into the Medusa Cascade resulting in an epic Daleks vs Judoon space battle. This unfortunately had to be changed as the budget was nowhere near big enough, a shame really as an epic space battle is something that Doctor Who has never really done and the The Stolen Earth/Journey's End two parter would have been the Perfect place for it. Though if I was in charge of the scene and had a big enough budget, the Shadow Proclamation battle fleet would have consisted of not only the Judoon but also of every species that had been featured in NuWho up to that point and the soundtrack for the scene would have been a gloriously OTT rock song similar to Live and Learn from Sonic Adventure 2 about coming together in the face of a common enemy. What do you reckon?
@@epsilonalphaargo1948 Every species? You have now made me think weeping angels vs daleks and I will forever hate you because that will never become reality. (Or vashta nerada vs daleks, that woulda been cool too)
Technically, Turn Left, The Stolen Earth and Journey’s End is a 3-Parter. If it weren’t for Turn Left then you wouldn’t have a CLUE what was going on in The Stolen Earth and Journey’s End Edit: It’s a VERY common misconception
The reality bomb has got the Duke of Edinburgh's fingerprints all over it... He did always say that if he was reincarnated, he'd like to come back as a deadly virus to keep the population down...
The links between the Metacrisis Doctor and 9 are pretty interesting. It's safe to assume that before meeting Rose, faced with the Coward or Killer dilemma, he'd have opted for Killer. But to have the Doctor himself acknowledge that makes The Parting of the Ways hit harder.
When I saw this two-parter when I was younger, I could officially tell my mother that I can now say exterminate in German. who says this show couldn't teach me anything.
Ok im going to make this argument again, I disagree with Davros and the Doctor. The only people out of all those planets that had a way to stop the Daleks were Sarah, Mickey, Jack and Jackie with the warp star and yeah, they would have killed all the Daleks and themselves but save the _universe._ And then Martha, who yes would have blown up the Earth and killed all of humanity, but _saved the universe._ They were both terrible options, but they both would have saved the entire universe. And only the people who met him and went on to be amazing in their own right were able to pull that off. That wasn't him 'turning them into weapons', HIS plan was to have good hair and look sad while the universe and Earth were both ripped apart. Sorry, but Martha or Sarah and Co's plans were both infinitely better. Davos giving that speech only made them question themselves long enough to teleport them away from their very good and only plans. And I think that flashback montage of people dying to save millions or billions, like Astrid and Jenny, took away a lot of their amazingness of their sacrifices. Just making it a 'they died cause the Doctor makes people want to sacrifice themselves and bad Doctor' instead of 'they chose to do that because they were heros'.
I don't think RTD was necessarily trying to suggest that the Doctor makes people sacrifice themselves to save the day. I've always perceived it as more of a "the Doctor is so brilliant that people *actively choose* to sacrifice themselves". Davros tried to move the Doctor by implying the former, but we as the viewers are supposed to make up our own minds with knowledge of the previous stories, and think for ourselves
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I prefer Rose with the Ninth Doctor! Rose was basically the antithesis to the Doctor's personality at that point. Nine was broken and lost, dealing with the after-effects of the time war and had forgotten how to be human. Rose served as his humanity, and helped him realise that side of him again. I like their dynamic a lot better than Rose and Ten. It's been hard to re-watch season 2 because the romance stuff is insufferable.
This video is the best early birthday present I could get. I turn 23 tomorrow. Thanks Harbo xx I love this finale a lot. So many emotions. Hope, triumph, despair, heartbreak. It is the perfect end to a near perfect series. If Tennant had left hear, he would have been leaving on a high.
Awesome video mate! The only nitpick I would point out is that the Daleks are shouting in German because they're in Germany. This is so the native populace knows what they're saying. If it was France, it would be in French (hilarious as that would be). Would be very awkward for a galaxy spanning super villain species to be let down by a simple translation barrier.
For some reason you’ve just put the idea in my head that the ones in other English speaking countries would have the accents of those countries. Imagine a kiwi dalek sounding like a big Māori “ah yeah bro we’re hear to exterminate you” to kill some people following up with “argh, you alright bro”. This’ll make sense to some people and for those who it doesn’t make sense to, in my personal experience, the really big Māoris and other Polynesians tend be very softly spoken and I’ve had it few times in rugby where a huge 6’5 120kg kiwi or other islander has sent me flying only to come over and, whilst sounding like a really well mannered and concerned 10 year old, helping me to my feet and making sure I’m not hurt
For me, Donna ties with Classic Sarah Jane as the Best Companion of All Time. re "Osterhagen": it's an anagram of "Earth's gone" If all the stolen planets are returned to their place and time, wouldn't that make some of this season un-happen? If the Adipose breeding planet was returned, there'd be no need for Miss Foster to use earth; if Pyrovilia was un-lost, why would they need to remake it on earth? I don't suppose that anyone lived on the Lost Moon of Poosh, but at least returning that to the moment it was originally taken would help with the tides on Poosh, which must have gone berserk when it lost its moon. I like how a circle is closed at the very end of the episode. We only see the Doctor without his jacket twice: once when he first meets Donna [he puts it around her shoulders on the rooftop] and now when he loses Donna forever. If a human-Time Lord hybrid isn't possible and it's killing Donna, what about the metacrisis Doctor? he's a human-Time Lord hybrid as well. I was ok with Rose in series 1, but here I found her irritating. She's been told that the dimensions are sealed, and that to breach them would cause dimensional collapse. Despite that, her Torchwood develops a "time cannon" to bring her back. They get it working, and all of a sudden the dimensions start to collapse. It doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone to wonder "Hm, cause and effect?" And at the very end, she's most brattish. She's not 19 any more, but she's still acting like it. She wants what she wants, and when she gets as near to it as is possible, she's still not satisfied. The Doctor she's left with must be very aware that he's only the consolation prize.
Just reading the screenshot of Clive Swift’s interview in this video... holy crap. Who hurt him? Why was he being so mean? Whoever interviewed him should get a medal
I think the best thing I like about Caan in this story is how you can hear and feel the insanity in it’s voice. I feel like Caan’s arc really came to fruition in this story because of this. Another big praise for Nick Briggs for being able to voice this insane Dalek.
back here after the news of Bernard Cribbins passing, and I'm almost as sad watching his brilliant final scenes in this two-parter as I was on broadcast. Great man. will be sorely missed.
The ending to this finale still gets me today even after seeing it several times. Donna quickly became my favorite companion ever and I was literally crying when I realized she was on her way out. Doctor Who (pre-Chibnall) always knew just how to punch me in the heart with companion exits. Donna, then Amy... then Bill... ;_;
This was the first episode of Doctor Who I saw back in 2008 when it was first broadcast. It was actually a pretty good jumping on point for the show for me as it introduced concepts such as regeneration and the Daleks although my parents had to explain a lot of the backstory. It was really cool though going from there and rewatching previous episodes then going back and watching this one and finally understanding all the different elements and backstory. I’ll never forget the feelings that I felt as my little 7 year old mind tried to comprehend it all. This episode remains one of my favourites, it’s what turned me into a Whovian and will forever hold a special place in my heart.
"Why would one random button have the power to stop the reality bomb?" I'll do you one better: Why are there buttons in the first place? For three people?!
Davros wanted it as his insurance policy to make sure that the Daleks didn’t kill him and let him have his fun with the Doctor? I mean they’ve tried to kill him multiple times in the past so I don’t blame him for being paranoid.
I saw a theory that after Dalek Caan saw what the Daleks had done and how their end would come, he helped design the crucible and planned for the buttons to be installed there for the doctor, doctor Donna, and the meta crisis doctor.
I think this episode does show another overlooked part of the series in the set dressing and technical aspects of DW. The clothing every character wears conveys significant characterization, the goofier CGI is used in a way that still flows with the style of the show, and my god the practical effects are phenomenal in this. Seasons 1-4's practical effects were some of my favorite parts... God, could you imagine Caan being anything except the puppet he is? Imagine a CGI alien there... And Davros's prosthetic makeup and little chair he moves around in. I think Moffat really lost out on part of the magic of DW when doing almost fully CGI and video editing for when he took over. I don't mind the doctors after Tennant, I actually quite love Capaldi's performances, but by god do I miss the flair of things looking grounded in reality. I miss how all the sets looked a bit... dirty? Everything always had grime on it in some way. Everything looked at least a bit lived in. The shiny-ness of the following series lost a lot for me. I know it's Moffat's style, but I wish his style wasn't so lifeless.
The acting of Tennent during the ending, when everyone is happy and excited about their new lives while he knows the Donna he travelled with is dead but she doesn't know it. It's just... perfect.
@@nightowl8477 Let's be honest, all of that Time War stuff always seems overdone to me since we hardly saw any consequences or damage to the universe in the RTD era.
As far I'm concerned my headcanon is that the time war became incomprehensible. To the point that reality itself was torn apart as life and death ceased to have meaning.
Just realised, you know how Ten switches between a brown suit and a blue suit, and the theory was that the brown suit was for the past and the blue suit was for the future? What if it was a hint at the metacrisis Doctor that was there right from the start of his tenure?
is all this rose-hate supposed to be a recurring gag or something? because all it really is is obnoxious. we get it, you don´t like rose. congrats, you are not-like-other-whovians. do you want a cookie or can we move on already?
@@mayotango1317 Even if we grant that, he could just make a video about her and explain his problems and then get over it already. It is redundant and entirely pointless to slag her off like that. Nothing besides "Rose bad" is communicated. It clearly is not an attempt to convince anybody of his view because he's not giving any arguments. The only thing I can conclude is therefore that it's either an attempt at humour or an attempt at showing how special he is for not liking her.
⬆️ THIS!! ⬆️ All the emphasis on the various versions of Clara Oswald started to grate on my nerves! Clara was effective when trapped in a Dalek and at first was interesting outside of it, but putting her as the be all and end all -- even having HER be "The Doctor" -- was all too much. Quite a few people left during all this nonsense, significantly undervaluing Twelve and leaving a wobbly (no "timey-wimey" involved) foundation for Thirteen to come in after Moffat's era ended.
How tf is the Doctor's Daughter higher than the Sontaran Stratagem/Poison Sky on the tier list?? In fact why is the Sontaran two parter so low down?? it was just as good and satisfying as this story (which is also superb).
I mean it kindof drops the ball at several points, in my rewatches I usually just skip everything after martha calls the doctor in. It's mainly bringing back unit in a way that feels insincere to the classic era version, and the car part of the plot pushing out what could have been a more indepth look at the sontarans. Its not BAD but as a two parter it feels like two plotlines (the unit/clone stuff and the school/car stuff) mashed together.
I will never forgive Davies for ruining Harriets story arch with that god awful poem. She went out as the hero she truly was, and he fucking ruined it. Harriet was one of my favourite revival characters, she was perfectly written and she completed her story arch perfectly, but of course Davies just couldn't help himself from ruining it by saying she survived. That man can't keep anyone dead.
I personally love this 2 parter, it is by far the best Doctor Who story that I've seen, partially for Nostalgia of seeing this broadcast originally, and genuinely thinking for a week that Tennant was gone and someone would replace him in the next episode. While I can't really defend the whole console that controls everything in the crucible, but think about the ending to Genesis of the Daleks, when the Daleks turn on Davros, he is likely concerned that something like that could happen with this new batch, so that to me kinda justifies Davros essentially having a Dalek Kill Switch, however it would probably make more sense to have it as one of his personal controls on his chair, rather than on a random console in the Vault.
Just warning you I can be petty, so you almost got a dislike for the casual infinity war diss in your title (what makes it a diss is the fact you didn't say anything to say why its true in the vid unless I missed it) but im just like that lol. Good video though
A couple of things I want to bring up: First: how the Doctor Donna was able to close down the reality bomb with a press of a button. She didn't, the bomb was shutting down before she even revealed, she had done more than just hit a random button. If you bare in mind half the stuff she did neither doctor had ever thought of (as they stated) having access to a computer terminal (presumably there so the daleks were able to limit how much remote control Davros had) was all she needed to hack into the rest of the station. Second, I think Jackie was basically the hang on character she nearly always was, only there to be a gun slinger in Sarah Jane's defense and to add the personal tension of the reality bomb test (even if they break that by saving her). Also she's pretty much the only person Mickey feels really sorry for leaving, since his gran's dead and his old girlfriend has fallen for an alien. Plus it's a good sign that he knows what is to come.
Russell T Davies wanted there to be 3 parts to the finale and to bring in a lot more aspects of the show, but of course wasn't able to for time and budget. It's incredible that Journey's End got extra time at all.
My enjoyment of this video was lessened by the punches at rose every other minute.. I get that the fanbase is vocal about their preferences but I'm just trying to appreciate the show.
haha um well this was a long one to make. Want to directly help me keep this thing going? Check out my Patreon!
www.patreon.com/harbowholmes
52 like and no replys well guess im the first
Rose isn't for everyone and I get that, but is it really necessary to put her down? She is beautiful, kind, has so much inner strength, was able to make it across universes, WITHOUT the Doctor's help, helped to retrieve the timeline by getting through to Donna in turn left, and the list goes on for reasons why I and so many others love her but you get my drift. I think it's perfectly cool for you to love Martha and she deserves the love but knowing two languages doesn't make anyone better than anyone else. I know three, does that mean I'm the greatest person in the world according to your criterion? Didn't think so. Anyways, your videos are awesome and I love them you do such amazing work and I wish you the best
Hey is there any video you have explaining why you dont like rose? I'm just intrigued to be honest 😂
There is a universe somewhere that the doctor didn't stop the reality bomb and it's destroying all reality
I did a what if where Rose got shot by the Dalek instead of Ten
No one ever really mentions that Rose is living with a version of the Doctor who occasionally talks like Donna
Meta Crisis Doctor starts to write a paper after becoming a PHYSICS, physics, physics teacher and utters the line:
“best temp in Chiswick 100 words per minute “
you just want 'to mate' ?!?!?1
Right, I've seen this episode around a dozen times. That has NEVER occurred to me.
@@oliverfarlow6042 a mate. A MATE!
@@creed8712 im not mating with you sunshine
You know it's scary when a man who can't die says "I'm sorry, we're dead"
I’ve always thought, what would’ve happened to Jack had he been caught in the testing of the reality bomb? He’s a fixed point in time but then davros says that not even time itself can escape, or something like that. It’s a question I’ll probably be asking till the day I die and I’m not sure if I really want an answer 😅
@@WeLhOOse To be fair, this is a guy who had to wait until the rest of the world became immortal just to finally feel what its like to die again... I would imagine it'd probably be like when Abbadon absorbed his lives until it died. He'd probably be just be stuck there in space and perpetually die and come back until something happens to come by and pick his body up.
@@WeLhOOseit doesn’t kill anyone it just removes them from existence
@@frostwing1899 removing them from existence is killing them. Their brain no longer functions because it no longer exists = death
@@WeLhOOse you can’t be alive or dead if you aren’t real.
The fact that Harbo isn't a TenRose fan but can still appreciate the specialness of their reunion is chef's kiss. 💗
It's so emotional, you can't NOT get at least a little choked up
Yes but that doesn't mean we shouldn't still try to convert him
I dislike Rose tbh
@@PonderingPerson 😪
@@PonderingPerson same
46:00 the most painful part of donna's departure for me is the doctor telling her once more that he's leaving, only for her to give him the cold shoulder. the "yeah, cya" just kills me after watching all of series 4 and how good they are for eachother
Donna is best companion. Unlike Rose and Martha, who fell in love with the Doctor, Donna and Doctor was more "sibling" in their relationship, and that made it oh so much better of a companionship. So just thinking about her departure gets me choked up.
I can imagine the new season was pretty cathartic then haha
Honestly the best thing about this entire two-parter is Harriet Jones. In just three stories she got one of the greatest character arcs of anyone in the Whoniverse.
"We know who you are".
Harriet Jones grows so much in those 3 episodes, from no power but desire for change, to having all of the power but following the status quo, to finally taking charge of her own power as THE Harriet Jones and saves the entire world.
It's such a beautiful arc and I would honestly die for a mini series that's simply about the trials and tribulations of chasing her career as a plucky young MP for Flydale North and the impact of her interactions with the Doctor on WHY she is interested in Politics.
Isn't she confirmed by RTD to have survived?
@@megatron8449 yes, but we are gonna ignore that because its dumb
Aye, her redemption and sense showing how the Dr may not always intervene in a good way.
Donna's fate is one of the worst imo. Ok she lived but she forgot all those wonderful things she did with the doctor.
To this day I can't re-watch that scene because it's such a heart-breaking way for her to exit. 😔
Same with Jamie and Zoe, they can remember wanting him one but not after
It's not just that she forgot, it's that the time she spent with the doctor built up her self worth and now she's back to thinking the worst of herself
@@marinettedorien8236 Don't remind me! ;_;
And if she remembers she will explode!
Like everything except for the Rose hate. Everyone ignores while talking about companion achievements, Rose managed to find a way back to the main universe without the help of the Doctor. She learned a lot from him and become an important figure of Torchwood. She managed to use Tardis so Donna can change the timelines. That is a far bigger achievement than any other companion did because there were no outside help or supernatural powers. She did that herself
I think the hate comes from her attitude in season 2.
thank you Okan iDUG! I'd say all of that is a way bigger achievement than knowing two languages
Because she's the symptom of where the actual rot started. For one thing, she was the original 'Princess Destiny Sassypants' template of the girl who was always meant to set foot in the TARDIS from the moment she was born and turn into a plot-resolving deus ex machina just in time for the finale. I get that the reboot didn't want girls who are just screaming herobait that sprain their ankles in a stiff breeze anymore but Rose, Donna, Clara, they all ended up playing _ridiculously_ significant parts in the Doctor's life instead of being just adventurous girls of character and bravery joining him on his adventures. This got old _very_ quickly and it started with Rose.
Secondly, it was where Davies dialled up the Doctor-Companion romance angle to 11. The Companions are not supposed to be the Doctor's lovers. They're his family. He's the dad or the big brother or the uncle, _not_ the lover (and frankly, I'm sick and tired of URT in sci-fi, so I found Donna very refreshing... until they brought Rose back again like a bad smell for her last three episodes and actually _crapped out a whole new Doctor_ for her happy ending).
All of this actually retroscrewed Doc-13. Ironically, it would've been easier to have a female Doctor in the classic era when the character was still relatively sexless. As it is, Davies 'masculinized' the character like this and just made the problems a later female Doctor would face even worse, particularly when Moffat fell back on his B-list sitcom background and piled years of useless comic relief males and bloke jokes on top of that.
My personal favorite of the new era has been Martha Jones. It's a shame she only got the one year. She was everything you would hope for from a good Companion, smart, brave, compassionate, respectful (the scene where she gently encourages the Doctor to remember his lost home is a nice moment ), supportive without dragging on the spotlight and she actually _worked_ for the resolution of her story. There was no magic swirly stuff that turned her into a Time Goddess, no cracks in reality that let her 'remember' the Doctor back to life. No, she walked a desolate Earth through wind, sleet, and snow avoiding flying murder-bots for a _year_ to spread the Doctor's story and give him that brief moment he needed to turn the tables. Martha was kickass. Granted, I could've lived without the Doctor crush they saddled her with but ... whaddaya gonna do? 🤷♂ Apparently, _every_ single straight girl in the show had to carry a chick-boner for Tennant.
Matter of fact, I'd say that season was the best overall of the reboot era, meaning how it hung together as a whole object. Great new Companion, the story arc was solid, the Professor Yana twist was excellent, return of a great classic villain and the resolution felt earned.
@@The_Mighty_Fiction I'll say this about the thirteenth doctor: My gripe isn't that the Doctor became a *she* but rather that I think it is a missed opportunity. It's my own bias but when I heard "the Doctor is gonna be female!", my thought is "Jenny gonna be on the show again? Wonderful!"
She represents a missed opportunity in my opinion. The Doctor is hundreds or even thousands of years old (I've been told 12th Doctor Capaldi reached the billions in age) so there can be a sense that he/she knows it all, has seen it all and can come up with the right answer for whatever threat appears that week. If Jenny were to take the stage, carry on in the Doctor's footsteps and explore time and space from a fresh perspective where she doesn't have all the answers and everything is new... I'm not making my point as eloquently as I did when I first made this gripe but the Doctor's daughter is out there and I still hold onto some hope that she'll be seen again even if Georgia isn't playing the role.
@@The_Mighty_Fiction literally no one ask about your opinion. The fact that you hate so passionately a fictional character lmao
Noel Clarke and Freema Agyeman never showing up in Torchwood after this two-parter is one of the greatest tragedies of the modern world.
I still feel bitter about that. It would have been awesome.
@@hollylaufeyson6646 martha does in big finish, its great fun!
specially since the small chemestry with mickey and jack in boom town was pretty funny
I mean, Martha already did show up in Torchwood in series 2!
Take a shot every time Harbo takes a jab at Roses character.
My neighbours spotted the kegs and now think I'm a bootlegger.
Spoiler: my brother tried this and died
I got so drunk I am typing this from a parallel universe
I got alcohol poisoning.
F
I’m just now realizing these episodes are what 11 was talking about with Amy in Victory of The Daleks. “Planets in the sky, you don’t forget that. Amy. Tell me you remember the Daleks.”
Yea did they ever explain that? Was confused why none of that massive invasion events were never mentioned or remembered.
@@bignaaasty5096 The crack(The crack in Amy's wall) in space and time had something to do with it.
@@adventurekitty1016 ehh that's a little too wishy washy "timey wimey" for my taste.
@@bignaaasty5096 It was the crack. Remember when it took Rory and it was like he never existed? It was explained that just being in proximity of the crack in her house for so long, it took a lot of her life from her and she never even knew, like Rory. For instance, she couldn't remember her parents either. It was a big house that only she lived in and because of the nature of the rift, she never even questioned it. That's why she couldn't remember other things like the planets in the sky.
@@1Xaria Yea but those were massive events that just happened that would shape the planet and society as a whole. You'd probably hear people talking about it all the time especially since it had just happened. It's really just not explained well at all. Also Rory didn't remember the planets in the sky either. He didn't live in the house.
OG's will remember the title was originally: "The Ultimate Doctor Who Series Finale".
shh the laws of titles belong to me and I WILL retitle them
@@HarboWholmes Fine you can have titles if I can have leaks.
so i'm not going mad!
@@HarboWholmes I don't care who you are. The Title Lord Victorious is wrong!
He may have remembered big bang 2. Though it's a close fight so I can't wait to see his opinion of big bang 2.
Less than 10 seconds in and we have a Chibnall joke. I’ve got a good feeling about this.
@The Reverse It is rather heart-warming to see how 90+% of the fans see the mess he has made.
Chibnall is still better than Moffat though
How is your comment 20 hours ago if the video has only been up for 36 minutes.
@@ionthegreat13 Patreon.
@@justsomerandomguyonline1144 *"The urge to kill is too strong"*
One thing I need to add about the scenes where Martha is in Germany: That is some of THE best German I have ever heard characters speak in non-German productions.
For example in TeenWolf Season 6, even I as a German can't understand what they are supposed to be saying and here they speak flawless German with just the tiniest accent and I absolutely love this.
And I love how the old German lady has just a slight German accent while speaking English and not that horrible blatantly over the top German accent
(that I unfortunately had to listen to every time in English class because most Germans really are that bad at speaking English)
Amirite? When she ended up in Germany and the Daleks started speaking German I was like oh no this is gonna be cursed, but Martha's German is totally fine with a bit of an accent. The old lady seemed a bit weird to me because she spoke German with a bit of an English accent and English with a bit of a German one, but generally I thought they did a great job, same with the German woman in Waters of Mars and the radio message in The Eleventh Hour.
I like to believe that the Doctor left a little hope for the audience concerning Donna. He called out Silvia. He pointed out one of the main sources of Donna's dismal view of her own self worth, her own mother. When we see the family again I get the feeling she's a lot more accepting of her daughter. Now that she knows who she truly is and who she has been, I like to think that she encourages her to be that again.
Nothing is less Empowering than all
of this Modern Wokeness.
I implore everyone who's still sane to share
some Knowledge with others,
even if you may come across as a bit spammy:
I hope you share Links to good Analysis like this one
and i hope you correct Fans who say Doctor Who is now better than everrr.
… *confusion ^*
@Jessica Able, I think your view was ultimately shown at the conclusion of the 2009 specials -- apparently Donna gained enough sense of self-worth to find someone to love and marry.
@@bsteven885 but the big question remains unanswered: Did Donna have pockets in her wedding dress?
@@oxcare5 Probably not, do you not remember where she stashed that lottery ticket? It certainly wasn't in any pockets...
I feel like this finale is best on first watch if you're going through the show in chronological order, just so you can appreciate all the characters and the arc. Watching it out of order and standalone, it just feels like all spectacle and not a huge amount of depth.
You could say that you have to go through the Journey to reach it's End
That's true. Doctor who is sometimes an episodic show where each episode requires a beginning and an end and everything a story needs in between but sometimes it's a serialised show and with most of the finales in RTDs era the finales are the pay off to all the build up from before. So the depth of this story is about the characters and everything that was built since the first series. I don't think it requires the amount of depth something like midnight or silence in the library did and I don't think its a problem that it requires you to watch the series in chronological order to be enjoyable. That's what's so great about modern who. It's not always about stand alone stories you can pop out of order. You can have that and you can also have a serialised drama to enjoy in chronological order.
You have to watch Turn Left all the way to journey's end. It is the closing of an Era, can't be split up. Have lots of tissues! Amazing!
It's one or two "fluff" ( I used that word very loosely) episodes then basically a two episodes movie that will have you sobbing.
I honestly kind of liked the fact that Donna saved the day because she's always overlooked and so I viewed it as Davros not seeing her as a threat and that being his downfall. But that's just me
Also calls back to what Harriet Jones said, they don’t understand humans and that would always be their downfall. Donna’s creativity and tenacity mixed with time lord genius was something that Davros never even considered.
I reckon if Christopher Eccleston hadn't fallen out with the show, the plan would have been to have 9 come in, rescue Donna and then attack Davros. The whole infinity war thing of coming together was just missing one thing and that was him. Still, it was an absolutely amazing story anyway and an incredible series finale.
Nothing is less Empowering than all
of this Modern Wokeness.
That would had ruined everything it shouldn’t be a multi doctor story
@@slevinchannel7589 lol what has "modern wokeness" got to do with this
@@sam_4481 Wel, it destroys modern Doctor Who and changs the Film Industry for the Worse, so maybe thats 'something'?
@@slevinchannel7589 maybe you think it changes it "for the worse" but in reality all it does is help to reflect the real world. boohoo gay people exist boohoo women can be main characters. cry about it.
The way I make sense of the "That button there" scene is that Donna programs the button herself, rather than having a random 'this breaks everything' button already sat there 🙂
That's honestly the way I thought it was meant to be
I always saw it as davros was the mastermind behind the Daleks, and while he may not have personally built the crucible, he more than likely had a major hand in designing it. Given his previous track record with butting heads with the daleks and being offed by them more than once (to my memory), it would make sense that he snuck that console into the design specs in case he needed to take control, without the daleks ever being the wiser, even sneaking on those rotators that were clearly built to fit the plunger replacers to make it look like it was made for the daleks also. Both seem like perfectly plausible explanations for it
'That button there' can work well. 'Family of Blood' ended a bit like that, with the Doctor explaining why it was important with his characteristic technobabble. Donna did that a little bit. When it's done poorly, it's the Eleventh Doctor black cubes episode.
same way to explain why in the end of the world they just have a "turn off shields permanently" button lying around
Definitely Modern Who's best series finale. You really get the sense that this is the ultimate fight. And of course, we've got a gathering of practically everyone from the RTD-era coming together in this huge emergency. None of the Moffat-era finales ever came close to topping the scale and stakes of this story. Sadly, it marks the beginning of the end of the golden age of Modern Doctor Who.
No, this is just filler fanservice.
But is the scale the most important thing? WEAT and TDF are completely different animals but pull off a similar quality with personal stakes.
the resolution was way too weak. Moffat knew how to end stories and arcs without using deus ex machinas like RTD did. it was my least favourite part about RTD's otherwise amazing writing.
@@larsswig912 I'm sorry, when did Moffat NOT use deus ex machinas'????
@@JaneSt.Valentine Most of the episodes he has written in Doctor Who. Don't let RTD glorification stop fair judgement.
Jokes on Chibnall we stopped watching before the finale
[insert Boycie laugh here]
Jokes on Chibnall some of us new fans refuse to watch any of his work
@@xentiment6581 same with old fans! Im just here pretending season 11 and 12 are not cannon
@@brittanystanton3705 It's worth watching Demons of the Punjab. JUST the one episode.
@@SaintoftheHonest yeah I suppose that episode wasn’t so bad
Davros: I'm going to annihilate the entire universe and everything in it.
Also Davros: wtf bro you're the Destroyer of Worlds
Nothing is less Empowering than all
of this Modern Wokeness.
I implore everyone who's still sane to share
some Knowledge with others,
even if you may come across as a bit spammy:
I hope you share Links to good Analysis like this one
and i hope you correct Fans who say Doctor Who is now better than everrr.
@@slevinchannel7589 virgin
@@slevinchannel7589 where did bro spawn from
The way I always saw it was Davros knew and accepted who he was while the doctor was in denial
@@slevinchannel7589"correct fans who say newer is better" this is why no one wants to be part of the Doctor Who fandom. Y'all are so petty and pathetic. Can't just like what you like about it you all have to "prove" that what you like is the only thing anyone should like. Especially the guy making these videos. He's the epitome of what people think of when they think of a Doctor Who fan and it's just sad. If he doesn't like it no one should, and he'll try and tell you why you're wrong for having your own opinion about the show. I don't know why I keep forgetting and watching another video about Doctor Who because it's always one of his videos and it's always this same crap.
Hopefully you all grow up one day.
I always liked Rose. Might've helped I was 10 and had a massive crush on Billie Piper, but that's not the point...
I like her overall, but I recognize she can be horrible sometimes. And yeah, Billie Piper is beautiful.
I love that she is one of the most normal companions of them all. She isn't special bc of destiny, because she is well educated or something, she is one of the few characters in newWho who (especially considering what Moffat did with his companions) is neither important, nor overly intelligent. She doesn't need to speak multiple languages to be a good companion. She's curious, has a good heart and built a relationship with the doctor. Caring and being brave are the only requirements and she does those.
@@skynikan I absolutely adore Rose for those exact reasons. I really like Martha as well but didn't understand the suggestion that she's better because she speaks multiple languages. I myself speak English, Spanish and Italian but never would I imply this makes me better than anyone.
I'm replacing my original comment with this as I feel it's worth saying. My explanation for the "Crucible Manipulation Panel in the basement" that Donna uses to destroy the Daleks was put there by Dalek Caan. He'd been manipulating time causing the Doctor and Donna to become intertwined with eachother, so it's likely he vaguely knew how the problem would be resolved by being able to see the future, so made sure that would happen. He was seen as a mad old seer by the Daleks, so it's likely that they'd listen to his mad ramblings as some prophecy that needed to be fulfilled, so they'd follow his instructions. Including ones on how to design the crucible, including the computer bank in the Crucible's basement.
My thoughts exactly. Dalek Caan had that console put there specifically for the Doctor-Donna to use, no coincidence involved. He engineered the entire situation with the Doctor and all of the companions specifically to get the end result that happened, so of course it was all just part of the plan.
@@egosomnio Thank Christ other people came to the same conclusion.
I love how you can see the fear in ianto's eyes at 'exterminate' because it reminds you of the last time torchwood encountered them, at the battle of Canary Wharf. He was there, he was one of a handful of survivors, who dragged his partially converted cyber-girlfriend from the aftermath and fought his way into three to attempt to save her. He probably head or possibly even saw the massacre of his colleagues as the battle raged. He was Yvonne's PA it's amazing he wasn't there when the cybermen arrived or the daleks came out of the sphere. He has trauma from the battle that's barely touched at past the cyberwoman episode of torchwood.
his experience at Canary Wharf is also why he tells gwen that the guns won't work. he knowns they wont from experience
@@jameshudson395 was there really any need for that? He’s making valid points
@@jameshudson395 you’ve got the time and energy to read what he put and complain bout it “matey”. Use your time more productively instead of tearing down other people because of something you don’t agree with. It’s pathetic and sad
@@tvguy61 he doesn’t appear in the episode but from Torchwood s1 ep 4 CyberWoman we know he was there that day cos he pulled lisa (his half converted girlfriend) out of the building in the immediate aftermath
I think a possible reason for why captain jack Harkness didn't have to have such a dramatic revival in this episode is because he didn't for the others he just chose to. He's such a dramatic character and likes attention so he did it mostly for show in previous episodes but now he knows he has to stay secretive so he doesn't.
Came here to say this, happy to see someone else got there too :) "eurgrhgghggh I'm allive, someone give me a kiss"
The stuff you mention about Harriet Jones and Francine being spoiled is really common in US TV shows. Multiple times I've watched shows like Arrow, where it shows names of actors who play well known characters, like John Barrowman, straight after the opening titles bit, spoiling what would have otherwise been a surprise appearance of his character. It bugs me so much when shows spoil character reveals in that way.
Another one is when they show a character we haven’t seen in ages in the ‘previously on’ section, like mmmm let me guess why you showed us that
@@samkirkby7010 Yeah, that's a big spoiler for the episode too.
Jesus, it’s taken me a fucking age to remember who both Francine and Jenny (Jenny from another comment) were. I’ve literally just rewatched series 1 through 7 as well. I need to get some more sleep man 😂
Also yeah, I somewhat agree. “Spoilers” don’t really bother me that much, I watched both infinity war and end game knowing basically the full plots, but I can perfectly understand why they piss people off. The one time I can remember where something like that was done really well was in the walking dead when Nicholas shot himself and him and Glenn fell into the hoard of walkers, Steven Yuen’s name wasn’t shown in the credits for the next few episodes, matched with what looked like Glenn being ripped apart when they fell when it was actually Nicholas’s dead body, really gave the impression he had died, and then he showed up without any indication prior that he would do
@@WeLhOOse I remember that specific example. That was around the point I started to stop watching The Walking Dead just because of it getting a biy samey. Although 6 months later I saw people posting within minutes of aj episode ending that Glenn had died and these were people I'd seen before complaining when people spoiled episodes a week after they aired. Seemed quite ridiculous that they themselves would do the sane.
This finale is up there with the Doctor Falls as one of the best finales ever. It felt so climactic.
I really love how Caan becomes essentially the dalek version of the Doctor with how he claims ‘no more’. While we don’t really get a major reaction it feels similar to the doctors reaction to dalek sec becoming human, how he actually can appreciate them for their actions despite being dalek
I’m not sure if this was intentional but did anyone notice how near the end of journey’s end the people who went to stay at Pete’s world they wear blue clothes and the people who go back to the original world wear brown. It’s very weird
Yeah never noticed that before, but you're right, symbolisms maybe?
Captain Jack and Martha don't wear brown. Martha is wearing black and Jack is wearing grey, same as always.
I noticed specifically that Rose and the Meta-Crisis Doctor both color-coordinated with dark blue 💙 suits and wine (or would you call it magenta 💜) tops.
The thing about the 'button' to turn off the reality bomb, is that I never assumed it existed there originally, that we just missed the Donna/Doctor hacking the system and more or less turning this button (which could have originally been just designed so that Davros could get someone to clean out his piss pot) into a button that turned off the reality bomb etc... I always thought it was weird that people thought this thing existed there, and not that Donna more or less had reprogrammed it before popping into the scene.
I just assumed that entire scene was another one of those TV/movie hackers scene where the hacker is able to just reprogram anything, simply because they are connected to the network.
I like to think Dalek Khan/Caan put it there just there just to stop the Dalek at their peak.
my fave new series episode, I remember gushing when Sarah Jane and Davros came face to face once more... this was RTD's magnum opus and will always be the new era's magnum opus.
No, that is Day of the Doctor.
I also loved Sarah and Davros interacting again across the centuries. "That face...."
Imagine if the 9th doctor was in this it would be 100x his anger in Dalek. Edit: I don't get the Dodo joke.
here before the BBC tries to steal your money again.
One thing I find really underrated about this finale is the threat. Some people often just think of this as another universe ending finale threat but it’s incredible how much ground work was done to make it even bigger with the concept of parallel universes coming into play again and for the first and so far only time the entire multiverse is at threat which I find incredibly tense and emblematic of Russell’s brilliant foresight as it wasn’t just pulled out of nowhere as the concept of a multiverse has been present in quite a few Russel stories.
It's even MORE than the multiverse! It's all of REALITY! Not just every possible universe, of every possible multiverse, but every dimension as well! It's EVERYTHING!
Doctor: Don't forget me.
Sarah Jane: I don't think anyone could forget you.
Donna: Don't make me go back.
Harbo just hating on rose through the entire video is such a mood.
Welp, as a Rose stan, I think I should skip this one then lmao
my love for Rose is stronger than any Harbo hate lolol
Yep. It's so nice to see another person dislike rose. I get why people like her but I just find her so unbearable at times
@@cathiejey8430
Do you mind if I ask why you dislike her? I'm just genuinely curious because I've seen people hate her but never got a really clear reason as to why.
@@quivygm sure! Of course I don't mind. This might be very long to read through btw. Edit: This is a lot! omg im so sorry!!
Firstly, I'd like to say that I did like rose the first time I watched through Davies era, mainly in series 1. I really enjoyed the relationship between nine and rose because it reminded me of the mentor-student interaction seven and ace had, and I loved that dynamic a lot. Also rose in series 1 was naive but that nativity was what made her compassionate and caring. So yeah rose was great at the start and I always enjoyed rewatching series 1.
Series 2 on the other hand became more of a chore to watch as time went past. Firstly, The romance with ten and rose was never something I invested myself into even when I was a impressionable kid. Though ten had a fairly young appearance, the doctor at this point over 900 years old and rose was 19/20; I just find the romance a bit creepy considering this big age gap.
Also it was obviously that Russell T Davies himself was in love with Rose. In love with the his own creation which isn't always a good thing. It's the same thing with Moffat and Clara (though I like Clara a bit more for other reasons) where the writer seems to force us to like these characters by showing how incredible/special they are and for some people, it works but for others it just comes off as distasteful.
I also did not like the way Rose treated people like Mickey and Jackie who were all but kind to her. They might not be a thousand year old timelord, the myth of legends etc but they still supported rose and did the little things to show their care for her.
I know a lot of people don't like Mickey and find him irritable. I personally I never thought of him this way, mainly because I would probably act the same way as Mickey if I ever saw weird dangerous aliens etc. However, when rose went missing for a whole year in series 1, Mickey was thought to be the one behind her disappearance and was almost charged with suspicion of murder. So when rose returns and Mickey tells her how much pain he went through because of the doctor's carelessness, she just looks so unbothered by it. No remorse at all as if Mickey's suffering was nothing. You can tell that the longer rose travelled with the doctor, and sees all the things she shows her, when she goes back home and is re-exposed to the problems humans usually face, she doesn't deem them to be as important as what she and the doctor faces in their adventures.
She treated Mickey horribly once she met the doctor, casting them aside as if their whole past/ childhood together was nothing and of course that would make Mickey feel worthless. I don't even blame Mickey for wanting to stay in the parallel world because the doctor and rose treated him like dirt. Rose's face in School Reunion when Mickey first asked the doctor if he could join the Tardis team, just shows how much she's come to 'dislike' Mickey and prefer the doctor instead. It's one thing to not like someone anymore and it's one thing to completely invalidate their existence so I am proud of Mickey of seeing through this mistreat and starting to fight on his own accord. No more being just the 'tin dog'
With Jackie, it's a bit different. Even though you could say Jackie was annoying and whiny, you have to admit that she was a good and caring mother. She had to raise up Rose all by herself as a single mother and seen her grow up into the person she is. So when in Doomsday, the doctor tells Rose that she needs to go back to Pete's world with Jackie, Mickey etc and rose refuses to go without the doctor, I immediately lost all respect for her. I don't know if this is a cultural thing but the fact that rose was willing to sacrifice, not seeing her mother at all, for someone who hasn't been in her life barely as much as Jackie, was insane to me. I know eventually everyone leaves their family behind, but usually you'll see them on special occasions. Rose wouldn't be able to do that if Jackie was trapped on a parallel world.
Rose rarely thinks about what her mother has gone through while she was travelling around. The constant dread she must have had, preparing for the heartbreak when she might never see her daughter again. To me it seems like series 2 rose only goes back home because she has to, not because she wants to.
So once series 2 ends, I thought "okay doomsday gave a nice ending to Rose's development and I'm ready for something completely new" but we didn't get that. Throughout series 3 and 4 we just bombarded with more rose. I think the main reason people love rose is because she was probably a lot of people's first companion and at the time when doctor who came out, people weren't very used to a rotating cast. So when rose leaves and martha comes along, people automatically started comparing martha, saying that she will never be good as rose. It didn't help that even in series 3, the doctor just doesn't shut up about rose. Every single time Martha tried to help, you just hear the doctor say 'oh rose would've known what to do' which weird because no rose wouldn't know what to do at all. She's human. She hasn't seen a lot of what's there even though she argues that she has and knows the doctor more than anyone.
Overall I just don't like the importance that was placed on rose as the doctor's true love because it just excused her to do some shitty things and it seems that she has lost her sense of self while she was with the doctor. Loss that sense of humanity that made series 1 rose so incredible. A clear indication of her character change can be seen when seeing how in series 1 rose showed mercy to a dalek but in series 2 she threatened a dalek and acted like she was superior than everyone.
So yeah. Obviously rose is not the worse companion. She has done a lot of good things especially in series 4 with the whole saving the world thing that went on but if we're just talking series 1 and 2 where she was the main companion, unfortunately she would be far from my favourites list
But that's just my opinion. If you like rose then I have no problem with that and no one should have a problem with that since at the end of the day, she is still a fictional character in a scifi show :)
“Yeah Rose, you were replaced with someone better. Take that.”
I think we can all agree Martha is better but gosh Harbo really put all his energy into roasting Rose today!
He really came for her lol.
Yes I loved every bit of it 👌
The irony of that is that, even though I agree with harbo, I’m not overly fond of Martha either, or specifically during series 3. Don’t know what it is about her but I just didn’t find myself being that emotionally attached to her character. I liked rose with 9 but not with 10 and for the same reasons. For me Donna was the best of Tenant’s companions, honourable mentions going to Jack and Mickey also.
28:48 I have to disagree there. Martha isn't "better" than Rose. Keep in mind, when the Doctor picked up Rose, she was just a teenager. She still lived at her mothers home, starting her career with jobs. Martha, on the other hand, was a full accomplished medical Doctor, when *the* Doctor met her the first time. So she is definitely bilingual (when you study medicine, you learn latin in the process). When you understand both, latin and english, it isn't a big step to learn italian and pronounce (not yet understand) german properly. German and Yiddish are very similiar, heading for another language in the process. I think you got the idea by now. Martha isn't "better" than Rose, she is just much more experienced and better educated (means no offence to Rose).
Yes,absolutely. They're both awesome, but one isn't better than the other, they just have different upbringings and experiences
i think it was just him kinda being sarchastic cuz he hates Rose, but also studying Latin doesn't make it that easy to know German, and anyways, bilingual is not necessarily 'better' or 'smarter' but when you compare Martha and Rose without the doctor, Martha is a determined, accomplished, intelligent companion, who was kinda underwritten in later episodes but made a strong introduction in Smith and Jones. I think they're both awesome, and Rose certainly ended up kicking much more ass by literally becoming a god and destroying the dalek's multiple times. Also I don't hate her but i can understand this guy since she is quite overrated and does act a tad brattish in season 2
Ah, but she wasn’t a full accomplished medical doctor though was she. She still had exams and the rest of medical school to go through when they met, as she mentions a few times in series 3
I personally think that Stolen Earth and Journey's End is my personal favourite Doctor Who two-part finale as it incorporates everything I love about the expanded universe and putting it onto the main stage, in a respectful and caring way.
Not to mention that the story, music, acting and plot threads are all fantastic, despite some small, but totally forgiveable narrative hiccups here and there.
And my girl Martha looking directly at the camera lol.
While I'm not the biggest fan of the two-parter finale, it's honestly much better than the finale before it.
I really love these deep dives into Who episodes, but the constant Rose hate kind of sours the experience sometimes :/. I get it, Martha is incredible; but we can't all be a Martha Jones, some of us just are a Rose, but we still have value. Yeah, probably taking it too personally, but w.e
I’ll never forget being 11 sitting with my friends seeing the 10th doctor going to regenerate and believing hed gone and we all jumped up screaming “NOOOOOO” so much nostalgia in this two part!!
I originally thought "Heck yes now Harbo can begin dissecting Matt Smith's episodes!" Then I remembered the last 4 Tennant specials. 😆
He said series 5 will be in 2022
@@orangepizzaparty688 Oh damn we have to wait *that* long? Fair enough though, because I'm sure that making these full-series videos are quite time-consuming and he needs a break. Where exactly did he say that? (If it's somewhere in this video I admit I didn't watch the whole thing just yet, so please provide a time stamp if you could. Nice username btw).
@@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose It was in a livestream, can’t remember which one
@@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose He’s planning on doing the two crossover SJA episodes and the whole of Torchwood series 2 I think
@@orangepizzaparty688 Oh alright but thanks for alerting me about SJA & Torchwood!
Oh and also i hate the moralising about the metacrisis doctor killing the daleks. Like what the hell else was he supposed to do. All Daleks MUST be destroyed and its foolish to suggest otherwise
I swear davros says "this is my final victory" about 3 times in this episode
It’s like he thought the bomb would detonate earlier and made a big declaration and then awkwardly realised he had longer to wait than he thought. The supreme Dalek just moved the goalposts for sh**s and giggles to mess with him.
The stakes in this story are the second highest I've ever seen in fiction, beaten only by those of Super Paper Mario.
Ayyyyyy a fellow SPM fan! We do exist!
@@smbsuperfan271
Indeed. In fact, we're fairly plentiful, but I don't suppose that many chances to randomly bring it up come up.
It's actually my favourite game ever, even based my channel banner/logo on its logo. Haven't really spoken about it in my videos as of yet though. Seems hard to do such a work of art justice.
I wouldn’t say it beats it
Both have all of reality almost get destroyed and only at the very end it’s averted
In fact the alternate realities being ahead of the main universe is really similar to the dimensions getting destroyed one after the other
@@DogsRNice
The difference is that at least the Daleks intended to survive the reality bomb, whereas Count Bleck was going to kill and destroy everything, himself included.
Nothing is less Empowering than all
of this Modern Wokeness.
I implore everyone who's still sane to share
some Knowledge with others,
even if you may come across as a bit spammy:
I hope you share Links to good Analysis like this one
and i hope you correct Fans who say Doctor Who is now better than everrr.
26:23 I think that the gasping for air could be down to him not expecting to be killed. In this instance, he provoked them to kill him. In Torchwood, he gets shot in the head, but he silently gets up again. He saw it coming. Or, it could be that they usually make a big deal of him coming back to life in DW, so that young viewers truly understood that he died and wasn't just knocked out.
RTD Doctor Who is the peak.
I don’t know mate, we’ve seen him a few times in torchwood expect to be killed but every time he comes back gasping for air. The only other exception to this being when Suzie shot him in the first episode, and I guess when he came back after the 456 virus, but there was still a little gasp even then
Almost an hour.
Jesus Christ Harbo, ton of dedication there.
If the BBC dare claim this-
Oh they will
@@HarboWholmes Russell T Davies has said that very early on the writing process, instead of building an improvised gun, the Metacrisis Doctor was going to go back to the Shadow Proclamation, whip them up into a frenzy and lead a Judoon battle fleet into the Medusa Cascade resulting in an epic Daleks vs Judoon space battle. This unfortunately had to be changed as the budget was nowhere near big enough, a shame really as an epic space battle is something that Doctor Who has never really done and the The Stolen Earth/Journey's End two parter would have been the Perfect place for it. Though if I was in charge of the scene and had a big enough budget, the Shadow Proclamation battle fleet would have consisted of not only the Judoon but also of every species that had been featured in NuWho up to that point and the soundtrack for the scene would have been a gloriously OTT rock song similar to Live and Learn from Sonic Adventure 2 about coming together in the face of a common enemy. What do you reckon?
@@epsilonalphaargo1948 Every species? You have now made me think weeping angels vs daleks and I will forever hate you because that will never become reality. (Or vashta nerada vs daleks, that woulda been cool too)
@@elizataylor1726 Sorry.
@@epsilonalphaargo1948 oh I'm not actually upset i just thought it was funny, prolly shoulda made that clear, sorry
Technically, Turn Left, The Stolen Earth and Journey’s End is a 3-Parter. If it weren’t for Turn Left then you wouldn’t have a CLUE what was going on in The Stolen Earth and Journey’s End
Edit:
It’s a VERY common misconception
Why so much hate for Rose? 😂😂😂
Because she is a spoiled brat.
Haha 10 year old me was in love with her!
Harbo's just salty that he'll never split into 3 people and go for a picnic on the beach in a parallel world with her!
I mean so am I to be fair
It's great to see Prince Philip engaging with a true British institution like Doctor Who
The reality bomb has got the Duke of Edinburgh's fingerprints all over it... He did always say that if he was reincarnated, he'd like to come back as a deadly virus to keep the population down...
The links between the Metacrisis Doctor and 9 are pretty interesting. It's safe to assume that before meeting Rose, faced with the Coward or Killer dilemma, he'd have opted for Killer. But to have the Doctor himself acknowledge that makes The Parting of the Ways hit harder.
When I saw this two-parter when I was younger, I could officially tell my mother that I can now say exterminate in German. who says this show couldn't teach me anything.
It's wrong.
It's "Ausrühen" but that's unrecognizable and tóó Nazi.
Honestly don't care what anyone says, since I watched this when I was 7 it's been my favourite Doctor Who story of all time
Ok im going to make this argument again, I disagree with Davros and the Doctor. The only people out of all those planets that had a way to stop the Daleks were Sarah, Mickey, Jack and Jackie with the warp star and yeah, they would have killed all the Daleks and themselves but save the _universe._ And then Martha, who yes would have blown up the Earth and killed all of humanity, but _saved the universe._ They were both terrible options, but they both would have saved the entire universe. And only the people who met him and went on to be amazing in their own right were able to pull that off.
That wasn't him 'turning them into weapons', HIS plan was to have good hair and look sad while the universe and Earth were both ripped apart. Sorry, but Martha or Sarah and Co's plans were both infinitely better. Davos giving that speech only made them question themselves long enough to teleport them away from their very good and only plans.
And I think that flashback montage of people dying to save millions or billions, like Astrid and Jenny, took away a lot of their amazingness of their sacrifices. Just making it a 'they died cause the Doctor makes people want to sacrifice themselves and bad Doctor' instead of 'they chose to do that because they were heros'.
Great analysis!
I don't think RTD was necessarily trying to suggest that the Doctor makes people sacrifice themselves to save the day. I've always perceived it as more of a "the Doctor is so brilliant that people *actively choose* to sacrifice themselves". Davros tried to move the Doctor by implying the former, but we as the viewers are supposed to make up our own minds with knowledge of the previous stories, and think for ourselves
The doctor should've apologised to Harriet Jones, former prime minister. He freed the way for Harry Saxon
I love Rose Tyler 🌹 ❤ who else loves Rose?
Me!!!
@@timeofthewhoviansunited1504 I request the highest of fives!!
I absolutely adore Rose!
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I prefer Rose with the Ninth Doctor! Rose was basically the antithesis to the Doctor's personality at that point. Nine was broken and lost, dealing with the after-effects of the time war and had forgotten how to be human. Rose served as his humanity, and helped him realise that side of him again. I like their dynamic a lot better than Rose and Ten. It's been hard to re-watch season 2 because the romance stuff is insufferable.
This video is the best early birthday present I could get. I turn 23 tomorrow. Thanks Harbo xx I love this finale a lot. So many emotions. Hope, triumph, despair, heartbreak. It is the perfect end to a near perfect series. If Tennant had left hear, he would have been leaving on a high.
Awesome video mate! The only nitpick I would point out is that the Daleks are shouting in German because they're in Germany. This is so the native populace knows what they're saying. If it was France, it would be in French (hilarious as that would be). Would be very awkward for a galaxy spanning super villain species to be let down by a simple translation barrier.
Especially considering that the universal lamguage isn't english.
For some reason you’ve just put the idea in my head that the ones in other English speaking countries would have the accents of those countries. Imagine a kiwi dalek sounding like a big Māori “ah yeah bro we’re hear to exterminate you” to kill some people following up with “argh, you alright bro”.
This’ll make sense to some people and for those who it doesn’t make sense to, in my personal experience, the really big Māoris and other Polynesians tend be very softly spoken and I’ve had it few times in rugby where a huge 6’5 120kg kiwi or other islander has sent me flying only to come over and, whilst sounding like a really well mannered and concerned 10 year old, helping me to my feet and making sure I’m not hurt
For me, Donna ties with Classic Sarah Jane as the Best Companion of All Time.
re "Osterhagen": it's an anagram of "Earth's gone"
If all the stolen planets are returned to their place and time, wouldn't that make some of this season un-happen?
If the Adipose breeding planet was returned, there'd be no need for Miss Foster to use earth; if Pyrovilia was un-lost, why would they need to remake it on earth? I don't suppose that anyone lived on the Lost Moon of Poosh, but at least returning that to the moment it was originally taken would help with the tides on Poosh, which must have gone berserk when it lost its moon.
I like how a circle is closed at the very end of the episode. We only see the Doctor without his jacket twice: once when he first meets Donna [he puts it around her shoulders on the rooftop] and now when he loses Donna forever.
If a human-Time Lord hybrid isn't possible and it's killing Donna, what about the metacrisis Doctor? he's a human-Time Lord hybrid as well.
I was ok with Rose in series 1, but here I found her irritating. She's been told that the dimensions are sealed, and that to breach them would cause dimensional collapse. Despite that, her Torchwood develops a "time cannon" to bring her back. They get it working, and all of a sudden the dimensions start to collapse. It doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone to wonder "Hm, cause and effect?"
And at the very end, she's most brattish. She's not 19 any more, but she's still acting like it. She wants what she wants, and when she gets as near to it as is possible, she's still not satisfied.
The Doctor she's left with must be very aware that he's only the consolation prize.
Just reading the screenshot of Clive Swift’s interview in this video... holy crap. Who hurt him? Why was he being so mean? Whoever interviewed him should get a medal
I think the best thing I like about Caan in this story is how you can hear and feel the insanity in it’s voice. I feel like Caan’s arc really came to fruition in this story because of this. Another big praise for Nick Briggs for being able to voice this insane Dalek.
"You are the destroyer of worlds!" Says the man who just tried to destroy the whole of reality.
back here after the news of Bernard Cribbins passing, and I'm almost as sad watching his brilliant final scenes in this two-parter as I was on broadcast. Great man. will be sorely missed.
The ending to this finale still gets me today even after seeing it several times. Donna quickly became my favorite companion ever and I was literally crying when I realized she was on her way out. Doctor Who (pre-Chibnall) always knew just how to punch me in the heart with companion exits. Donna, then Amy... then Bill... ;_;
This was the first episode of Doctor Who I saw back in 2008 when it was first broadcast. It was actually a pretty good jumping on point for the show for me as it introduced concepts such as regeneration and the Daleks although my parents had to explain a lot of the backstory. It was really cool though going from there and rewatching previous episodes then going back and watching this one and finally understanding all the different elements and backstory. I’ll never forget the feelings that I felt as my little 7 year old mind tried to comprehend it all. This episode remains one of my favourites, it’s what turned me into a Whovian and will forever hold a special place in my heart.
"Why would one random button have the power to stop the reality bomb?"
I'll do you one better: Why are there buttons in the first place? For three people?!
Davros wanted it as his insurance policy to make sure that the Daleks didn’t kill him and let him have his fun with the Doctor? I mean they’ve tried to kill him multiple times in the past so I don’t blame him for being paranoid.
I saw a theory that after Dalek Caan saw what the Daleks had done and how their end would come, he helped design the crucible and planned for the buttons to be installed there for the doctor, doctor Donna, and the meta crisis doctor.
‘just give us more jack and mickey’ definitely didnt age well lmao
gosh, can you imagine a surprise mid-season regeneration though? that would be wild, i feel like id love that
I think this episode does show another overlooked part of the series in the set dressing and technical aspects of DW. The clothing every character wears conveys significant characterization, the goofier CGI is used in a way that still flows with the style of the show, and my god the practical effects are phenomenal in this. Seasons 1-4's practical effects were some of my favorite parts... God, could you imagine Caan being anything except the puppet he is? Imagine a CGI alien there... And Davros's prosthetic makeup and little chair he moves around in.
I think Moffat really lost out on part of the magic of DW when doing almost fully CGI and video editing for when he took over. I don't mind the doctors after Tennant, I actually quite love Capaldi's performances, but by god do I miss the flair of things looking grounded in reality. I miss how all the sets looked a bit... dirty? Everything always had grime on it in some way. Everything looked at least a bit lived in. The shiny-ness of the following series lost a lot for me. I know it's Moffat's style, but I wish his style wasn't so lifeless.
Stolen Earth/Journey's End walked so Infinity War and Endgame could run
PERIOD. 👏🥂
Fuck walking, Russell set off sprinting. This is much more clean and organic than Marvel's attempt.
The goodbye to Donna is one of the most touching things in the whole tome. Sarah Jane will always be the best companion...ever and ever.
Only notification squad remember when this was called ‘the ultimate doctor who finale’
The acting of Tennent during the ending, when everyone is happy and excited about their new lives while he knows the Donna he travelled with is dead but she doesn't know it. It's just... perfect.
The nightmare child is just a dalek!? I never knew that, that fucking sucks...
Literally. Nobody really knew what to do with Russell's Lovecraftian cosmic war, did they? Should have just let it be.
@@nightowl8477 Let's be honest, all of that Time War stuff always seems overdone to me since we hardly saw any consequences or damage to the universe in the RTD era.
As far I'm concerned my headcanon is that the time war became incomprehensible. To the point that reality itself was torn apart as life and death ceased to have meaning.
Just realised, you know how Ten switches between a brown suit and a blue suit, and the theory was that the brown suit was for the past and the blue suit was for the future? What if it was a hint at the metacrisis Doctor that was there right from the start of his tenure?
For next episode, I’m just going to say my opinion right now, I think the next doctor is the best Christmas special ever..
I totally loved this one too, no idea why so many don't like it...
@@uklie01 because the cyber king was stupid. And the way it was defeated was beyond lazy
@@zakapholiac9377 yes, that's actually true. But I liked the episode anyway :)
@@uklie01 then enjoy it, don’t listen to the masses 👍
The Next Doctor or the Christmas Carol one?
Given current events I don't think Mickey and Captain Jack is going to happen somehow. :(
2:27 may be my favorite shot in the entire RTD era.
I clicked your timestamp and got an advert with a chicken eating spaghetti in it.
So I agree.
Yeah. See. There’s a reason why there was never a Mickey/Captain Jack spin off buddy series…
Begging Big Finish to make a series with Noel Clarke and John Barrowman hasn't aged well
is all this rose-hate supposed to be a recurring gag or something?
because all it really is is obnoxious. we get it, you don´t like rose. congrats, you are not-like-other-whovians.
do you want a cookie or can we move on already?
Rose is so annoying and toxic.
@@mayotango1317 Even if we grant that, he could just make a video about her and explain his problems and then get over it already. It is redundant and entirely pointless to slag her off like that. Nothing besides "Rose bad" is communicated. It clearly is not an attempt to convince anybody of his view because he's not giving any arguments. The only thing I can conclude is therefore that it's either an attempt at humour or an attempt at showing how special he is for not liking her.
I Love Rose. She only stuck around 2 series and then she made guest appearances. While Clara stuck around way to long.
⬆️ THIS!! ⬆️ All the emphasis on the various versions of Clara Oswald started to grate on my nerves! Clara was effective when trapped in a Dalek and at first was interesting outside of it, but putting her as the be all and end all -- even having HER be "The Doctor" -- was all too much. Quite a few people left during all this nonsense, significantly undervaluing Twelve and leaving a wobbly (no "timey-wimey" involved) foundation for Thirteen to come in after Moffat's era ended.
Ooh... I've been waiting for this.
How tf is the Doctor's Daughter higher than the Sontaran Stratagem/Poison Sky on the tier list?? In fact why is the Sontaran two parter so low down?? it was just as good and satisfying as this story (which is also superb).
Agreed
I also LOVED the Agatha Christie episode (if not for the "too salty" scene alone) so disappointed to see that so low :(
I mean it kindof drops the ball at several points, in my rewatches I usually just skip everything after martha calls the doctor in. It's mainly bringing back unit in a way that feels insincere to the classic era version, and the car part of the plot pushing out what could have been a more indepth look at the sontarans. Its not BAD but as a two parter it feels like two plotlines (the unit/clone stuff and the school/car stuff) mashed together.
Rose hate is so unbelievably 2014-ish. She's an intentionally flawed character, your digs ae kinda... weird.
Ah, so much well-deserved Martha love. Totally on board with that.
I will never forgive Davies for ruining Harriets story arch with that god awful poem. She went out as the hero she truly was, and he fucking ruined it. Harriet was one of my favourite revival characters, she was perfectly written and she completed her story arch perfectly, but of course Davies just couldn't help himself from ruining it by saying she survived. That man can't keep anyone dead.
@dr103 yes. It still ruined it.
Doctor: I travel alone
Later: I have a family
Journey's End: I'm about to ruin this man's career
11th Doctor: I had a family again.
Nobody appreciates how great actress is billie. She is so authentic and I can believe any word she says. Honestly one of my favourite companions
I personally love this 2 parter, it is by far the best Doctor Who story that I've seen, partially for Nostalgia of seeing this broadcast originally, and genuinely thinking for a week that Tennant was gone and someone would replace him in the next episode.
While I can't really defend the whole console that controls everything in the crucible, but think about the ending to Genesis of the Daleks, when the Daleks turn on Davros, he is likely concerned that something like that could happen with this new batch, so that to me kinda justifies Davros essentially having a Dalek Kill Switch, however it would probably make more sense to have it as one of his personal controls on his chair, rather than on a random console in the Vault.
If it helps, it's likely that he didn't even know it did that. Caan presumably put it there as part of his manipulation of all things.
If this is the best you've seen then I absolutely recommend the classics to you.
Okay, so Donna is my favorite companion, but why are crapping on Rose so much?
Just warning you I can be petty, so you almost got a dislike for the casual infinity war diss in your title (what makes it a diss is the fact you didn't say anything to say why its true in the vid unless I missed it) but im just like that lol. Good video though
A couple of things I want to bring up:
First: how the Doctor Donna was able to close down the reality bomb with a press of a button. She didn't, the bomb was shutting down before she even revealed, she had done more than just hit a random button. If you bare in mind half the stuff she did neither doctor had ever thought of (as they stated) having access to a computer terminal (presumably there so the daleks were able to limit how much remote control Davros had) was all she needed to hack into the rest of the station.
Second, I think Jackie was basically the hang on character she nearly always was, only there to be a gun slinger in Sarah Jane's defense and to add the personal tension of the reality bomb test (even if they break that by saving her). Also she's pretty much the only person Mickey feels really sorry for leaving, since his gran's dead and his old girlfriend has fallen for an alien. Plus it's a good sign that he knows what is to come.
The praise for Mickey here hasn't aged well 😬
I mean you can praise a character and still condone an actor.
15 days later and the Micky and Jack tv idea went from probably never happing to defiantly not
Russell T Davies wanted there to be 3 parts to the finale and to bring in a lot more aspects of the show, but of course wasn't able to for time and budget. It's incredible that Journey's End got extra time at all.
My enjoyment of this video was lessened by the punches at rose every other minute..
I get that the fanbase is vocal about their preferences but I'm just trying to appreciate the show.
I gotta say, not only is this faverourite Doctor Who story, but probably my faverouite pice of fiction, and I've got such a personal connection to it.
favourite