I've thought this exact same thing as well. But do you really need to misgender him? I understand why you do.....But what is gained?? Besides a moral superiority?? Or rational superiority? Does that mean if we were friends and I had asked you to call me she, you would not?? Or would you to my face, as a courtesy, but then not behind my back?? I really don't understand the need to do that. I'm not criticizing you either, just trying to understand. Like I get biological reality and all that and im ok with being misgendered by strangers cuz they see what they see. But if you know someone and they've asked for pronouns is it not our human courtesy to allow that for them? The same as if a Donald prefers Don. Or Michelle prefers Shelly. You wouldn't be a dick and continue calling them what they've asked you not to right? I see pronouns in the same way..... more of a courtesy thing. If you're a decent person ill call you whatever pronoun you want. If you're a dick, ill probably "misgender" you out of lack of respect (For instance). In this case I respect Elliot Page enough to say him. Until he does something that removes my respect I see no reason to call him she. (Does that make sense?) Its the same way I call the "Its Ma'am meme" guy a guy and he. Cause he's clearly exercising his "he-ness" all over the place and lost my respect. Even though he's a trans woman. Whats your take on that?
So you can make a distinction between Elliot and Mrs Ma'am. Artemis makes distinctions on slightly different line. when I try to imagine situations when someone demands the use of a pronoun, I think of aristocracy demanding devine right from the peasants, and its expression being a capitulation to the hierarchy. So I'm not fond of the idea. I'm happy enough to call anyone by whatever they like in day to day life. But I draw the line at any kind of coercion, be that legal or screaming.
@@GDKLockout agreed. Like I said. For me it comes down to respect. If I respect you you're far more likely to have me pronoun you how you want. Ruin that respect and it becomes harder for me to do so. Sadly passabiity plays a big factor into it as well. If you look like the gender you're going for then its also far more likely you'll get the pronouns. I go outside and rarely get misgendered. But do I get mad if one stranger happens to say he. Nope. Not a chance. I do however get slightly irked when friends do it.....because there's the element of respect in there. And they're showing lack of it, which makes me question the friendship. Know what I mean? Its very complicated for sure. But a good guage......is if strangers gender you how you want to be gendered then you're doing something right.....if they don't, you gotta work on your transition. But definitely shouldn't get upset at them. Thats childish. But if friends maliciously and purposely don't want to respect your pronouns then its time to question the friendship? I'm still on the fence on that one tho. But yeah ...respect....its why the "its maam" meme person lost my respect. Cuz he blew up at that cashier like a hulk. So...he'll forever be a he to me now until he can show me he deserves my respect. (And since I don't know him personally I doubt that's gonna happen)
Great question and I'm *really* glad you asked; doing so tells me that even though you may be irked by my practice, you're still holding room for curiousity which is massively respectable. I have a video coming out to address pronouns cause it's a monster of a topic that has tons of nuance, but I will do my best to answer you here. As I said in the last comment, all of what I am about to say is with a very neutral tone and I mean no insult by any of it, and I realize that conveying anything that might prompt someone to confront inconvenient truths about themselves or suggesting that someone is somehow defective often triggers offense. I do my best to give exactly what I think and know while being as tactful and kind as I can; I want people to live the best life they can and I don't believe that can be done if we're always talking to avoid negative emotions. Before I can even answer you though, I have to shed some light on the frame of reference you're using to explain potential reasons for my behavior. So, you're having a hard time pinning down why I refuse to use Elliot's preferred pronouns because you view the practice from the underlying belief that I would do it out of some kind of superiority, when that word doesn't enter my mind at all as a motivation for me. Humans have a tendency to see things in a competitive sense, because our genetic coding is geared towards physical survival. In this day in age in many areas of the world, now that we don't have to compete physically, we compete in the emotional sphere, over "who is more superior", and it's a very archaic way of thinking and behaving. If I feel like someone isn't worth my time interacting with, I excuse myself politely and that's the end of that. No digs, no "gotcha's", no misgendering on purpose just to annoy someone because that brings me to an immature level. I'm interested in solutions and civil discourse, and you can't get there with petty behavior. When you stop seeing everything as a competition and work towards mutual respect for each other's perspectives and autonomy, you've shifted the frame entirely and can actually begin to make progress. So, to begin to answer your questions "what is gained by me not using Elliot's preferred pronouns", and "would I misgender you behind your back?": You might have heard the part in the video where I said "there are certain circumstances for which I would use someone's preferred pronouns", because I recognize there are definitely times when breaking the biological rules of pronoun usage make more social sense, and I'm fine with that. You said so yourself that you have a sense of when courtesy should be extended for preferred pronoun usage, just for me the bar is a little higher. If someone clearly is not taking steps to align themselves with the gender they claim, then especially no, I will not honor that pronoun, much like you and the "Ma'am meme guy". My bar goes higher to say that it takes time and dedication for me to use a preferred pronoun, and whether or not I respect them doesn't enter the picture because that's a subjective judgement and gets messy quickly. I could hate someone's guts and as long as they were consistent and time-honored with their gender expression for the pronoun they want, then I would be bound to that to uphold integrity in what I believe, and not be dragged into the petty behavior of "I'm going to misgender you because I think you're a jerk." Since it seems to me that you're consistent and benign in your gender expression, I would call you as you wish, in and out of your presence. Elliot, on the other hand, has had only one year of testosterone and transgender experience; which, by the way, is a WPATH violation to allow someone top surgery with less than a year on cross-sex hormones, and to me just screams Hollywood elite getting pushed to the front of the line for an agenda and I don't buy it. It also takes a lot of time to adjust and integrate this kind of experience and until it's a lived experience that sticks and is proven genuine with time, I cannot honor it, and this brings me to what is gained by me holding out on preferred pronouns until proven consistent: as a more cautious minded individual, I believe that if I did not express more discernment and concerns, it opens the door for hasty action that leads to trouble (ie all the detrans stories of people who aren't trans and regret it). It's the classic battle between the left wing and the right wing (political parties): one stands for creativity, innovation and progress, the other stands for security, stability and tradition. We absolutely need both sides for the best balance. There is a kind and empathetic way to hold boundaries like I am talking about in withholding preferred pronoun use, and it's unfortunate that most people only know the "I won't use your pronouns because I dont like you". If I love or care about someone who is going to transition, I would square with them and say "I love you and want the best for you. I'm not sure if this is it, and until I am, in order to compromise and respect both of us as much as possible, I will use the pronoun that I see in you." A conversation doesn't happen like this very often because people are not used to being able to respect someone else's viewpoints/freedom of speech and not take it personally, even if that person is professing their love and care all along the way. I do not see it as a human courtesy to use preferred pronouns with no grounds for reasoning other than "you seem like a nice person", because pronouns are not subjective, they're objective, meaning they're rooted in fact. If you're going to override those, there had better be really good reasoning, and not just "as a courtesy". Now, names on the other hand are totally different. Names are as subjective as they come, and if you wanted me to call you Lavender Fields I totally would.... because that's fun and as far as I can tell, totally harmless (because you don't think you're a field of lavender and take steps to become that, only to one day realize it isn't for you and try to undo the patch of lavender that you've had surgically implanted all over your body). The analogy is extreme and meant for a little comedy, and also to point at the false equivalency fallacy that was made when comparing names to pronouns. There is also a small anecdote that I have that adds weight behind my choice to withhold pronouns until proven, and that is that I had a friend of mine who still took his life even though everyone around him affirmed his pronouns. Using his pronouns didn't save him. It's likely he had other comorbid mental health issues, but the excuse that people use of "using preferred pronouns saves lives" isn't always true, and I wonder if the front of being transgender didn't get in the way of uncovering what the real issues were. There's a ton more to unpack with that but I'll save it for the video. I hope I sufficiently answered your questions! It's insanely complicated, and I aim to give respect to both parties.
@@t-timewithartemis4174 well said. The part where you said "ill call you the pronoun i see in you". Irks me a little bit. Because who are you to dictate whether someone's transition is valid or not. I have a friend like this that consistently calls me he. He has said its "because he doesn't think im trans and can only ever see me as a man". Now....thats fair. But its not really up to him is it. He's known me for 18 years....so of course he "doesn't think im trans" cuz to him its all sudden and unexpected. He wasn't in my brain for my whole life and only knows a very small sliver of who i am. And do him....thats his memory. And its valid.... But that doesn't mean he's right in his assumption, just because he "can only ever see the old me". Doesnt mean im not trans. And doesn't mean he should disrespect me like that. Because we're friends. But....I still love him and am friends with him because fuck it. Thats why I said im still on the fence about cutting out friends simply for misgendwring. But eventually he's gonna switch automatically because so many times it's been pretty awkward when we're out and he says it and all the other people are like....um....who are you referring to. And then during the course of the night hell call me she. So over time....it will become natural and hopefully he will see me for who I am and not his own projection of who he wished I was or thought I was. But yeah....its interesting. I allow him to misgender me because I've been friends with him for 18 years and he's allowed his own perception of me for sure. We can't control peoples perceptions. But.....how long will it take before im "trans enough" for him. Know what I mean?? Thats why I think its dangerous to judge someone else transition based on a very limited perception of that said person. And while we might think we know whats best for them....we really just don't ever have the full picture. I do get where you're coming from and what you're saying though. That being said...I have a friend going for top surgery and I really really really want to warn them against it. Because in my mind...I can see they're not actually trans. (Whether thats true or not brings me back to what I said above, above having a full pictuee) but my limited perception is that they're confused. But thats not my job to stop them or warn them. They will figure it out on their own.
@@Lavender_1618 Lots of good stuff in there, I'll have to make my response brief: Ultimately I err on the side of respecting free speech. Calling you a pronoun that I see doesn't invalidate someone's transition or trans-ness, it's reflective only of that person's views and beliefs. I talk about that concept in the video "no one can invalidate you". After 18 years, yeah, I'd say you more than earned it and it is a little puzzling to me that he would still call you a she; I would be tempted to say that you may be right in that he is the one holding onto something he wants, but also men are a lot more subconsciously invested in biological distinctions because their programming is more heavily geared towards sex. That's why women usually don't have a problem with using preferred pronouns and it's usually a guy bringing objections to the table. To your friend getting top surgery, you're right, it's not your job to say anything and if they didn't ask for it then it's up to you on whether or not to stay quiet. For me, I can't stay quiet and I don't want friends who would rather I stay quiet; I want friends to be honest with me if they see something I may not, and vice versa. To each his/her own!
Why has being a women been reduced to 'wearing a dress' and let's face it 'being heterosexual'. Too many young masculine lesbians being heartbreakingly led into believing they cannot be their authentic selves in their body of birth.
i dont get why people can't just be a feminine male or a masculine female without thinking tehy are in the wrong body. could just wear boyish clothes and have boy mannerism and not mutilate your body
Here's how I've come to reason with that: Some people have emotional trauma that leads them to believe they need to change their bodies. It could be that they grew up with parents and influences that didn't support non-conforming gender expression, or they may even have suffered sexual trauma. They just need some therapy to help them sort through their feelings and reasoning. Unfortunately, there are still places in the world where people are not supported just to be themselves, and try to force them into boxes. For transsexual people like Blaire White or even myself, we don't believe that we were born in the wrong body; instead, we have a medical disorder that causes us to feel/operate better on cross sex hormones and certain surgeries. It's much like someone who is intersex- born with ambiguous sex markers (neither fully male or female genitals). It's a genetic mixup that happens in the womb. It's a pretty complex thing, but I hope that helps. Feel free to check out my video "Meta to Molecular..." where I take a deep dive trying to define transgenderism. Thank you for your comment, cheers! 🍻
Elliot seems extremly emotional unstable. And im with you , that there are underlying mental health issues where transition is not the solution and professionals should differ that, because it leads to malpractice.
Many years ago I recall seeing them interviewed and thought they were mentally unstable back then. I don't think it has anything to do with identity issues, I think they likely have always been mentally ill. They are far too intense, in an abnormal way.
The absolutely disgusting issue with this whole thing is why, oh why didn't psychiatrists (I'm assuming they were involved in Elliott's transition) pick up on this and put the wellbeing of their patient first.
@@turquoiseopalfruit Because in the USA transing the gay away is a good money spinner. Thats one of the many problems with not having socialised healthcare like we do in Europe. Also the psychiatric profession has been infiltrated and captured by the gender woo cult. Good psychiatrists have a choice they can either go along with this “affirmative care” model or lose their jobs. Many have left the profession because they know how utterly wrong it is to affirm a vulnerable person’s delusions and not even explore other ways of looking at their dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is the only mental illness/condition (all dysphoria are) that therapists are being told not to question and told they must affirm the illness. It’s a bigger medical scandal than lobotomies. The USA is an absolute abortion of a nation. This shit is repugnant. Paige and so many other young vulnerable kids have been utterly let down by adults around them and the medical institutions.
Classic example of having the money to destroy yourself. 40 years ago,if I had been a famous person. I’d probably be dead. Till cheap opiates took over. Most people couldn’t afford to harm themselves with sex,drugs and rock and roll. Lol Pays to be poor when you’re young. 😂
@@clarks58facts! I heard another podcaster say that the extreme poor and extreme rich get the worst health care. The rich bc they get sold all these extra interventions w out being told about the effects / risks properly.
Huh I was almost feeling like maybe she gave herself body dysphoria by transitioning when it wasnt really the solution and regrets the changes she made. Not that I can know if that's true or not but the feeling was not very positive in the video.
@@anakadmon6606I follow this girl who got on t within a few months of asking it seemed like. Within like two years it went from nonbinary, to trans male. And she still wears very feminine clothing and presents feminine, like she did before surgery. I do worry about this happening to her and I fear it does she will double down.
@@lefroy1exactly. At a certain age I have less and less empathy. Talking to people who are thirty and older and full of shit about this is infuriating. Talking to these young people, its frustrating but I do feel for them
I have seen the same thing with Jazz Jennings. There is a videoclip, where she is reacting to Matt Walsh, and she proclaims to be happy and comfortable in her body, but she closes her eyes the entire time she says it.
I'm so sick of people saying kids will die if you don't encourage them to ruin their bodies. If trans want to play sports they need to get their own trans sports
....but she thinks being a man. Performing man? She started out as a woman (not a man) and she's still not a man. She's not even "giving" man (as the kids say it these days).
People don't believe that transgender is or could be a trend unfortunately, that's really the problem, too many young people especially are confusing their personality and being manipulated into believing that their personality, likes dislikes, taste and interests, is actually *trans* And then cosmetic altering is being sold and promoted as a cure all, to kids who ten years ago would never have been allowed a nose job even if it made them feel better! Really interesting video thanks
To be honest she still looks like she is very sickly. I guarantee she is still struggling with some of the issues she said she had before she transitioned.
How absurd to say that trans kids are or will be denied playing sports...when the issue is simply not allowing male to female trans is unfair to REAL females.
I was comparing this interview to the interview with Ellen Degeneres in which she talked about coming out as lesbian - the emotions conveyed are startingly different.
She's playing the role of her life, badly. My thoughts are that Ellen got addicted to the praise and attention she got when she came out as a lesbian. She wanted to relive that attention and glory, so she went to the next level, the ultimate in narccicistic supply - coming out as 'trans'.
I don't see narcissism in this person. she seems so anxious and tense, a small presence in the room trying to be smaller. it's quite cynical and unempathetic to assume that all these people are attention-seeking narcissists, I think many of them are mildly autistic or naturally awkward. for autistic people, being in a near constant state of discomfort with yourself and the world around you is just a feature of the condition and something you have to learn to manage. I feel sorry for many of these folks.
@@froogsleegs Go back and watch clips of her a few years ago. There was nothing anxious and tense about her. Quite the opposite. She's clearly jumped on another bandwagon for attention. She might feel anxious and tense because deep down she knows it. Or because she's acting the part. She is an actress after all.
@@SingmetheSea yes, I shouldn't assume. you're right about that. I am very familiar with autism, though, and the trans community is majority autistic. the Tavistock gender clinic in the UK confirms that 90% of their patients are also autistic. there's a very clear correlation between the two. I'd agree that somebody having a trans identity is usually a flag for narcissism. but statistically they're more likely to be autistic, especially if you go past "I'm trans" to the stage where they are considering hormones/surgery. it's important to point out that people who are aware on some level that they are socially disabled may try to self-medicate or cure it somehow. with people constantly saying shit like "trans is the future" "you are valid" "be kind" under the trans flag it appeals to socially vulnerable people by default. we should remember that
I think Elliot and Demi’s transition and coming out seems forced and kinda like they’re… coping with something and this is an escape from that. Now that’s NOT with all trans people but this can apply to some
@@lightlightlightWell Demi is now using she/her pronouns again, so I don’t think she’s trans. I think she’s just going through things along with having bipolar and mental issues
I remember watching this and thinking she didn't seem happy or comfortable at all; the constant closing of her eyes and almost tearful tremor of her voice was especially concerning to me. At this point in time, with the publication of the memoir, "Pageboy", Page appears to be committed to the bit. We'll see what happens going forward.
I don't necessarily think that you can judge whether Elliot is trans or not based on one interview. Especially when you consider that this is the first time Elliot is talking publicly after coming out as trans. There is still a lot of stigma against being trans so it is understandable that he was probably nervous during the conversation.
Trans identities are elevated above every other group, especially for men claiming to have magicked into women. Especially white men. Women claiming to ‘be’ men are only ever famous for topless shots (with or without ab inserts) and pregnancy, while the mulvaneys of the world get to dominate everything female.
Body language is not a very reliable way to judge even if it was 100 interviews, that being said I feel like something is obviously up with Elliot just based on human empathy alone
@@louwinters508 maybe elliot was never comfortable with the male attention a female body attracted. This is a common cause of gender dysphoria which many young girls and women experience. Especially for a celebrity with all eyes on them and for nearly every one during puberty.
Very interesting. When she talked about what brought the most joy, I reacted with nervousness for her, like a sympathetic response to someone caught off guard who has to act/lie. What kind of mental issues do you believe she has?
I'll be honest, I don't really know what, if any, diagnosable disorder may be manifesting, though it's clear to me that anxiety is present. Some have speculated that she is on the autism spectrum, which would lend greater clarity as to why she has gender identity issues. It's known that there is a high correlation between gender identity issues and autism, due to the prevalence of alexithymia; it doesn't mean that these individuals are transgender, it simply means they have a harder time distinguishing their inner experiences and turn to transgenderism as a potential solution for their confusion. I'm working on a video about that now, actually.
@@t-timewithartemis4174 Yes, she's stammering sometimes and feels quite uncomfortable. All in all, coming out as trans doesn't exactly seem like a liberating pill of joy in her case, at all.
Holy shit, this is very thought provoking, unique content. Almost everyone would be afraid to say this (even though a lot of us have thought her transition is questionable) due to what the wokies would do. You've earned this click on the subscribe button. Looking forward to watching more of the uploaded videos on your channel.
Yeah they really should've gone on T and Binded and lived as a man for at least 1-2 years before top surgery. The fact that they did top.surgery first before even hormones is kinda scary. But well see.
@Dan Banny yeah....well wake up to the fact that gatekeeping is needed sorely. Cuz trans people DO exist. Just not on the scale were seeing it. Social contagion runs in biological women for some reason it seems (historically anyways, not meant to be a sexist statement just a fact) and its easy to see in the data.....like its so obvious this is what is occurring among young women. an almost 3000% increase in FTMs and 600% increase in detransitions among FTMs, while MTF numbers have remained relatively stable / grown at the slow rate you would expect with wider social acceptance.... The data doesnt lie. And unfortunately it will be transwomen that will bear the brunt of most of this....cuz society hyperfocuses on us....when really we're not even the demographic they should be looking at in this case
I get your point. I think Ellen felt pressured to become a dude because of the gender ideals placed on her in Hollywood. Whatever she or he wants to call himself or herself whatever is nothing to do with me. I just think Eliot is nuts. But I wish him the best and don't feel any sort of anger or hatred about it.
Thank you for such an informative video. I have no idea what Elliot thinks besides what he says in interviews. All I know is that I see a person in pain, that has not yet found solutions to that ache😢
Wow I'm glad your video got recommended to me..I believe you are completely spot on with this..I feel as if she does regret transitioning..but you know how Hollywood is so I don't know if she feels she can even go back..but again great video.i subbed.
"Children will die if they can't play sports" how absurd. Also nobody is saying trans peple can't play sports and sports has always excluded people who don't meet the requirements to make the team.
Excellent breakdown, I don't pretent to be educated in body language at all, but I came to a few of the same conclusions you did. I really appreciate your take, and think you absolutely nailed it. I hope Elliot/Ellen finds some peace in thier life. I still remember watching him as a young child playing Jim Lahey's daughter on Trailer Park Boys lol, oh how things change.
For heaven’s sake what happened to her to end up like that -she only provokes pity and empathy and the hope that no one of your family and friends has to go through this one day ! She’s completely lost and believes that only this Frankenstein surgery can bring her happiness! Since when we switched to criminal surgeons from psychiatrists who gave totally up. And Oprah -completely zero as always ,how she could make such a career and money will always be an enigma for me !
That was a very interesting, thoughtful video. I’m left feeling sorry for the waif "Elliott." I don’t see masculine confidence and strength here. I’m puzzled by her leap from "I don’t like these clothing choices" straight into "therefore, I’m a man." In the not so distant "old days," a person couldn’t make a medical transition without first spending a year dressing and living socially as the opposite sex. "Passing." This is a girl, a vulnerable young woman who simply has electively had a bilateral mastectomy. That doesn’t make her a man, and as she comes to realize this, I fear she will find that she couldn’t have been more wrong in making a statement like "children will die" if denied medical transition immediately. Like you, I fear for her future.
Just want to point out that Elliot Page is 35 years old - not a “girl” or “young woman”. There seems to be some infantilization going on bc of her slight stature.
@@00st307-m That's interesting. Watching these clips (I've actually never seen EP before), I couldn't help but think of the Hollywood pressure to remain young. And my feminism-informed brain started to go in the direction of "hmm, interesting way to avoid the fear and hurt that comes with becoming a not-young woman".
it's fascinating to see how fast he jumps from talking about himself to injustices or ideologies who might not be based on facts. Plus, when he always talks about transgenders in a very dramatic way " children will die, transgenders get killed often, they can't have access to health care etc... "
Yes, and there's a lot potentially going on behind that observation that I think is worth contemplating; I'm not saying that she has the following, just something to consider. The first is that those "comorbidities" associated with transgenderism often includes eating disorders. The second is that testosterone changes the fat distribution, and so for women taking it this means that the face often gets thinner, and you can have trouble keeping weight on. This is actually my current state of experience; just one thing that must be carefully managed and considered against the potential benefits of hormone replacement therapy for transgenderism.
But why Elliot? I mean, she could've chosen any name, any name that exists. Elliot is like the laziest, most obvious "choice" like just turn your female name into male name. That bugs me more than anything else. It doesn't give "I am really all into this" vibe, it's more like "lets pick the closest to my birth name". I mean, look at mtf transitioners, they always pick some really great names, they are never like "so I was born as Robert, I will be Roberta now". They are more like "I was born Steve, I am going to be Amanda now". That's more impressive and genuine to me. This sounds sus.
Someone needs to reach out to her!! Like frfr, before she decides on ending herself or sm else horrible. Noone wants to talk about how many ppl off themselves after transitioning, the numbers are dangerously high for such a small community. I’m hoping the best for them. New subscriber here! 950 to be exact, I’m excited to see how far your channel grows, we need to bring the dark reality if this topic to the light
There is so much to unpack with this video and topic. You've provided some insight and clarity, but I'm left with so many more questions. There's so much more work that needs to be done with respect to supporting trans-individuals, but it seems like the current narratives are making things worse. You're brave to speak about it.
If you have some time, I'd welcome what questions you're thinking! It helps me to understand where other people are coming from so that I might be able to better collaborate solutions. I appreciate you commenting!
I appreciate your analysis. Elliot's transition always seemed forced to me. When compared to other people who've transitioned like Kaitlyn, Blaire, and yourself Elliott doesn't seem nearly as comfortable with their transition. We live in chaotic strange times where healthy questioning or raising concerns towards anyone going through with transition is automatically dismissed and ridiculed as transphobic.
Thank you for your words, and I agree with you about the questioning. It's such a big topic that I decided to do a video about it- "Troubles and considerations in questioning and gatekeeping the transgender community". Thank you for the inspiration 🙏
this interview is ....galling, man. i have deliberately evaded any of this horrorshow since it happened, its even less convincing than i had dared hope for. her own sake. its like someone has a gun trained on her behind the camera. every 'post transition' picture i've seen has that vibe,
While watching that interview, I felt like Page was really lost and confused. Then when she closed her eyes and started moving a lot, I definitely thought she was lying and deflecting.
Page looks painfully anxious. We don't know the causes, perhaps it was largely masked before, but to an outsider there doesn't seem to be improvement. I appreciate the mature commentary and responses you've made here.
It's interesting to watch Ellen page interviews versus Elliot page. Even when she was super young she had a confident flow. There is a deep disturbance moving in now. Even years later it's still present.
1) If gendered pronouns were tied to biology then languages like mine wouldn't gender everything from inanimate objects to abstract concepts and feelings. Yet the chair i'm sitting on is a she and this room is a he, no chromosomes or genitals to indicate such thing, and we have had to learn as children the gender of every single word we use. Gender is a construct, and i think just because you may feel fine letting people disregard your own identity, doesn't mean that every other trans person has to have that forced upon them by you or anyone. No, i don't think its cool to throw a fit any time someone misgenders you, but it has value to advocate for the respect of peoples' identities. Biology is biology and acknowledging it has its own time and place (with each person's doctors), for the everything else we are people, not our genitals. 2) The entire field of body language reading is known for misrepresenting those of us who are, as anglo speakers are calling it now, neurodivergent. Among other things, eye contact is something that has been given such a huge amount of validity as an indicator of someone's "true feelings and intent" that it has made it hell to carry on social interactions for people like me, who simply feel different about it. You can trust me when i say if i'm making eye contact with you i'm putting on a front and all my energy into said eye contact so you will buy that i'm feeling much more comfortable than i actually am. But when i can let my energy go to everything else, on how i'm feeling and what i want to share with you and not worry about where my eyes, or my hands, are going i can be my most honest self. I dont really know much about Elliot, only met him from Umbrella academy but from what i've seen and heard he seems to have always been the less social type of person that would do the same type of thing. And i think whatever his situation may be, which i am not saying the scenario you propose is impossible, he still deserves to have this aspect of him respected as well as any trans person does, because the alternative is you are contributing to the undervalue of someone's genuine identity for the chance you might be right.
And just to add to this: i do not have LGBTQ friends, not in real life or online. I have not been "recruited" into this way of thinking, i have only had casual conversations with a few trans people in person because i happen to go to a general health center with a trans care unit, so sometimes you make chat while waiting in line. All this is to say, i do not really lose or gain much from thinking this or that way, i don't have skin on this, and yet i was raised to respect people for who they are first, and whatever grievances i may have won't be at the expense of their physical appearance or identity. If someone is rude or shitty in any way, they are so regardless of who they are and that's what i care for and what i will call them up on, not the way they look or their way of life and so on. And like this, i can't get it in my head how someone who gains or loses nothing can find it so easy to call people the way they feel like, even in a language that is not my own, yet someone who has everything to gain or lose can't.
I appreciate your input, and will clear some things up. I'll also make the disclaimer that I am not upset in the following message, just stating my thoughts and oppositions. Gender isn't always tied to biology; it's a very complex and nuanced thing. It's also something that we as humans are actively trying to define, since it doesn't really have one accepted definition at the moment and is a relatively new word to the language. I mentioned in the video that there were scenarios for which I would consider using a preferred pronoun, and am by no means a biology absolutionist in that way; that too is very nuanced for me. I find it really curious though that you would say that just because I do not mind what pronouns people use for me, that "doesn't mean that every other trans person should have that forced upon them". You also say that you were raised to "respect people for who they are... and whatever grievances i may have won't be at the expense of their physical appearance or identity." All of these add up to a very fundamental difference between the way you and I view the world and self: I do not place other people in control of my identity, and I do not believe that it is respectful to default to obeying someone else's exception to the rule. It doesn't mean that rules cannot be broken, it simply means that I do not start with a broken rule; a rule that exists because it's a majority and when it gets broken, there is a higher liklihood of instability. It's just statistics. Everyone who has made the argument that you make believes that other people are responsible for validating someone's identity, and that it is the "respectful" thing to do as a default. I just disagree, and can change my mind if it proves to be a mutually respectful scenario. If someone takes issue with my freedom of speech, then no one is forcing them to stay, or forcing them to listen; the language you used- "force"- falls in line with the "words are violence" narrative, and that is where free speech starts to die. It seems to me that you find it honorable to call someone who is "rude or shitty" by the way they want to be called, but honestly I just see this as you rewarding their bad behavior. I can dislike someone and still use their preferred pronoun, so long as they are doing everything else respectfully- "rude and shitty" are not worthy of respect; respect here is earned, not given- another big difference. To answer your last pondering, I have recieved more *genuine* respect and support from people outside the LGBT community than inside it especially with this issue, so I do not lose anything with this stance, in my view. I have found that anyone who would not respect my logic in initial pronoun usage and places their validation of identity with me *will* run afoul in their integrity at some point or another and is a social ticking time bomb. To address your point about body language being different in neurodivergent people, yes, this is true. I watched many of Elliot's other clips though and do not see evidence for neurodivergent; that would be a whole other video analysis. I have known many people on the spectrum high and low, and there are other tells as you mentioned: when you're comfortable you let your eyes wander, you may have other tics or movement that is atypical for a relaxed conversation, and the key here is that this is sustained throughout the conversation- it doesn't just come out when something uncomfortable is asked. Again, you'd have to watch many of her interviews to get the baseline, which if this were more than an amateur analysis I would have shown because many people like yourself have brought up the neurodivergent aspect. That being said, there is a high correlation of people on the autistic spectrum and claims of transgender, many of which are not accurate, which furthers my point of being cautious of Elliot's claims, if she were neurodivergent in this way.
Pandering to pronouns has lost females a space to safely and fairly compete as well as intact male rapists being housed in female prisons You can respectfully kiss my fat female ass
I see where you're coming from here, but there could be a multitude of reason why when asked about the best part of transition, negative feelings or insecurity could spring up. For one, Elliots marriage deteriorated, assuming because of them coming out as transgender, I am sure there is contradictory feelings swarming in Elliots mind there, for one Elliot could feel better about himself, but on the other hand someone you love and are still attracted to is no longer attracted to you. Two, Elliot unfortunately needs to transition in the public eye, for all to see and scrutinize. There are people analyzing everything Elliot does and every which way they react in interviews. There are also people publicly disrespecting their name change for political purposes, even though most people who aren't transitioning would be respected if they decided to change their names. They also clearly do not pass quite yet, and naturally have a small stature, I'm sure it is difficult to deal with that, knowing there are certain things you just can not change. That all being said I agree with you on the fact that Elliot, and many other trans people I see form their identity on the basis of transition. For me personally, that seems a tad dangerous, considering being trans is the identity, rather than transition being the means in which allows one to be more comfortable within society. I enjoy hearing your perspective, and respect your views.
I’ve seen a lot of scrutinizing videos on Elliot, but yours is the first that isn’t trying to be sensationalized/giving off extremely uneducated medical information. So props to you.
I had no kind of training or education about how to read body language but even a bag of hammers like me can see that she feels completely over hear head with this attention weighing down on her. I honestly think that she never expected this kind of reaction about the choices she made and now understands what kind of backlash would be unleashed if she turned around now. I honestly think that you are right. About a new stress balloon building up very soon.
I hope transition works - they have been so public that I can’t imagine that they can really detransition if they ever felt that would be best for their mental health.
What a great thread. Actual conversation rather that screaming and name-calling. I kept reading, waiting for it to happen… and it didn’t. I literally have goose bumps. Thank you for this sanity. I’m going to sub.
The worst thing is that when she finally breaks down because of her mistake, she will blame those who criticized her transition, even though she lives surrounded by people like her, who support and encourage her constantly. The reality about the trans issue is that statistics show that 80% of people who identified as trans in their childhood or adolescence, when they are adults end up identifying themselves simply as gay, and they no longer have the desire to transition or believe that they belong to the opposite sex. That is why we see more and more people regretting having mutilated themselves, or having received hormonal treatments, since the latter leaves them sterile, so they end up living a hell.
To be fair....whenever someone asks me about my transition. I get the same way as Elliot did. Because it brings up so much sadness of how I lived for so long without transitioning. And the weight of that hurts and makes me want to cry every time. But its not an experience most understand.....so I never know how to convey it and I get shifty and shaky lol..... This COULD be what Elliot is feeling? The regret of not having started sooner?? Watch it again with that frame of mind. I'm not saying that's what it is.....but thats how I related to it 100%
I also was wondering if Elliot was experiencing a form of grieving? I appreciate you sharing your experience, I can't imagine how hard the entire process is and I'm sure it takes years to integrate all of your changes (mind/body/spirit). I hope things have gotten easier for you and you're able to find happiness and fulfillment.
I completely understand what you're saying here, and I'll do my best to make the distinction between how I drew my conclusions and the experience you're relating. So, in body language analysis, the wording of the question that preceded the body language is absolutely critical in order to make any kind of reasonable assumption of meaning, and to demonstrate I will give you an example. Say you have a suspect in custody, and this individual is hiding the fact that they killed their significant other, but it was a crime of passion that they regret immensely. When they are asked, "Do you feel badly that this person is dead?", they will give a very genuine show of sadness that might cause you to believe that they had nothing to do with the death. However, if you ask, "Did you kill this person?", the body language here will tell you what you need to know, most of the time. So, to relate this to what you have said: You said that when asked about your transition, it dredges up a lot of negative feelings and therefore your body language shows this, and that is very reasonable and even expected. However, Elliot was *very* specifically asked about "what brought you the most joy in transition", a question that focuses explicitly on happiness, and nowhere in there did she even smile; in fact the longer she responded, the more painful it got. If I asked you, "What has been the best part of your transition?", I would be shocked if initially, instead of focusing on the positive, you went straight to the negative. You might spiral towards the negative eventually, but your initial response is the important one because this is where body language analysis shines; your microexpressions and knee-jerk responses don't lie. Something else to keep in mind: the practice of directing conversational attention with focus words and questions is called priming, and you'd have to be an incredibly aware and skilled communicator to resist this pull. If something like that happens (that you focus immediately on the negative instead of the positive that someone is asking about in your transition) it's still minutely possible that someone is transgender, but it indicates there is a lot of emotional baggage needing unpacked in therapy because a healthy individual can easily cite what makes them happy when asked about it. One last small side note here is that there are many, many people who would do just as you did: relate to Elliot on some level, and I want to unpack that for a minute. I think that what you're trying to do by explaining another potential reason for Elliot's incongruous behavior, without considering the exact context/wording of the question asked of her, is relating to her to validate your own experience of discomfort on the larger topic of transitioning, but the two experiences are not the same, as I detailed above. People who are more empathetic do this- they empathize- it's a positive human trait in many ways. It just can easily get wrapped up in committing the "false equivalency" fallacy; that is to say, comparing apples to oranges, because we are social creatures that look to see ourselves in others, and also justify our own emotions. It's human behavior 101 (and let me tell you, taking courses like that was the most surreal experience ever, like seeing yourself at a distance and realizing so many things that you do are just programs running at a subconscious level due to millions of years of evolution; it makes you question who you really are). I say all of this with a very neutral tone and mean no insult by any of it, and I realize that conveying anything that might prompt someone to confront inconvenient truths about themselves or suggesting that someone is somehow defective often triggers offense. I do my best to give exactly what I think and know while being as tactful and kind as I can; I want people to live the best life they can and I don't believe that can be done if we're always talking to avoid negative emotions.
@@t-timewithartemis4174 fair. Yeah I've experienced that feeling of realizing that were all just a bunch of programs repeating ourselves in infinite branches of thought loops. Gender is such an interesting concept for this very reason. Because its one of the core base layers of identity and programming. Theres self, then gender, then the rest. Gender informs literally all of our actions and inaction and thoughts and feelings. Its literally inescapable. Lol. Though 99% of us are highly unaware how these programs are affecting us and subtly changing how we interrelate. Haha sorry....a tangent. But I agree. Watching it over and over again. I think I agree with your assessment more. As my initial assessment was based on my own experience and relation to it through empathy. The more I watch it from a detached perspective the more I see what you're saying. Still not gonna call him she just yet tho. For me that will only be possible once they do something to loose my respect. And right now I respect him enough to respect that he wants to transition and be called he. But that can change. "ITS SIR!!!" 🤣
@@Lavender_1618 Well said; thank you for this! It's rare to have true civil discourse these days and I appreciate it so very much. Disagree with me all day long, Madam!
That's what I thought as soon as I watched the interview. I Wish him the best anyways. In my personal experience I would give up veganism, it's not healthy, not for the body as well as for the mind. I belive he's a good person and I wish him thee best, without judging. Thanks for the video
As soon as she transitioned the suicide clock on her started. She’s not long for this world, she convinced herself that if she desexualized herself by cutting off her breasts and claiming that she was a male that would somehow make her less of a victim. But you can’t change the sex that you were born, she is a female and all the trauma that comes with a female still resides in that female body that her gendered soul lives in. She didn’t transition, she just mutilated herself to escape. And she failed. It’s heartbreaking and it’s sad but I won’t be in the least bit surprised when she kills her self; rest in peace Elliott/Ellen Page.
6:30 oh…. no…. oh no.. no no no no that is not right Someone help her before she 41%’s. Thank you for calling this out as a religion. When I detransitioned I felt like I’d been indoctrinated into a cult lol
wow thanks for bringing this to our attention. I actually didn't even question Elliot even though I'm generally someone who can be critical when it comes to someone who says they identify as trans. So, hearing a critical view from a trans man is very interesting and eye opening.
I mean, if she were a trans kid in rural Alabama in the 50's forced to wear a dress to go to church, sure. But she is planetary popular, grown up, Oscar winning actress - you're telling me she doesn't get to say what she wants to wear? Really?? C'mon. The whole story feels so flimsily manufactured. There were PLENTY of famous women wearing suits and appearing androgynous in public waaaay before her, and when it was so much more against the grain of society to do so. And here she is, forced to wear a dress, and no saying in the matter, having a breakdown, poor wee thing. Not buying it. Any of it. And I do 100% believe there is (a very small) percentage of people who really are transgender, but this isn't it. This is a dangerous fad. Great video btw.
I wonder if 40 years in the future how many squeaking little old “men” there will be? It will be weird. Now many of them look like members of a “boy band”. It won’t be so cute when they’re old.
Thanks for a great analysis. I suspect you are right on all fronts, Elliot does not seem like a happy bunny in the slightest. This is why I am massively against transitioning in minors. And even as adults I would expect medical professionals, doctors/psychiatrists to put the wellbeing of the individual before profit. What a sad state of affairs.
Most of the comments here are so bad (I see this in other videos of him). You know what I hate? When people are so selfish and stupid that they want to believe that he, Elliot, is pretending, because he was soooo hot as a woman (I always see those comments, and it's mostly from dudes and straight people), and seeing someone like him, being who he truly is, it makes them uncomfortable, especially when they were physically attracted to him as a woman, so they deny that he is a trans and just acting. This is why most people don't come out, because of people like them. Most people think trans people are only fat, not society pretty, you know, stereotypes that you see in problematic movies. But not a gorgeous person, like Elliot. This is why I hate most people. They are selfish and shallow. Just be happy for Elliot, it takes a lot, especially in an industry that is so striaght, and undiverse, of course Elliot will be scared to come out. Its not like "influencers," she is a well known actor, and coming out is a big deal, unfortunately.
Literally, like of course he’s nervous it takes so much courage to just be yourself as a trans person. And now people are “questioning his identity”? Like it’s his identity not something you can analyse
I havent read a single comment starting that she is a female solely because she "looks better as a female or is soo much hotter as a female." I have only read logical/analytical reasons.
No they're not, 😬 if you're going to analyze how he's acting now, you need to compare it with the way he used to act before the transition and he has always been so anxious during interviews, transition doesn't take away anxiety and dealing with all the world commenting on your stuff doesn't help. There's a lot of mental stuff to deal with. He'll be ok with time and most of the comments are like "this guy used to be so happy during interviews after transition". Maybe they were faking. 🤷🏻♀️ No one knows, it's media. Nothing it's ok at all, but he being anxious it's not a new go and watch interviews before his transition.
I’m not homophobic I could care less about anyones sexual orientation but I’m lost on this subject . Why are men so much better seem so much more confident and at peace with there transition to being a women ? Elliot page looks miserable and scared shitless .
I think that's a fair observation to make, and I have thoughts on it but first have to ask you a few questions/clarify some things: To be transgender is not a sexual orientation, it's a type of identity. It's confusing, I think, because the "T" is included with "LGB". While Lesbian, gay and bisexual are sexual orientations, transgender is not and I don't think it belongs in that grouping. I think it was placed there as a way to lump it in with anything that wasn't straight/heterosexual, and a way for those outside that to feel like they belonged. Technically, though, it makes no logical sense to me and leads to confusion. Do you realize that I am a biological female, who generally passes as a male (a "transman")? I only ask that question because I'm not sure if you see me as another example of "lack of confidence", like you see Elliot. If you do see me as another transman with lack of confidence, what does confidence look like to you? I think that's very important to explore in order to answer your question. I mean these questions in the most neutral tone- I'm not at all offended- and just want to understand what you're seeing. I do think that successful and confident transmen do not get much attention, and it is interesting to me that it seems they generally don't seek as much attention or get as much attention as the transwomen do. I think that's partially an optics issue; as in, media spotlight is biased towards transwomen (you might even see this as an example of "the patriarchy", or society dominated by male narcissism). Buck Angel is a very prominent transman, I just think he doesn't get as much press; legacy media is definitely skewed a particular direction for their agendas, in my opinion. There are also any number of reasons why males on average will seem more confident- from cultural, social to biological- but a feature of testosterone is that it does increase confidence for many. I checked on Elliot recently and it seems as though- at least on Instagram, which isn't exactly a big picture- that he's looking much more confident. It could very well be the testosterone causing this now, and at the time of the Oprah interview he had just started the hormone therapy and therefore the effects were not yet seen. On the other side, it's only been 3 years of testosterone for Elliot, and I think more time is needed to tell if it's truly a transsexual issue or that the testosterone is hiding other mental health issues. I look forward to your response, cheers! 🍻
when is anyone in the media gonna talk about Page's BLATANT anorexia, totally ignoring it despite talking about the physical transformation... to "happy and healthy" ugh, cant even put a sarcastic LOL on that, its so grim, and weird, and 1984 levels of compelled fakery.
Wow, I'm not sure what led this video to show up for me but, I'm glad I stuck around! You had so many enlightening points to make and you are very very knowledgeable and intelligent great job!
Making the cause your identity. Lots to think about there for me, I might be guilty of that to some extent too. I'll be thinking about this for months. Thanks, but also not thank, trying to be honest with oneself on this level on analysis is bound to be painful.
Absolutely, it's not for everyone. I think it's what Jordan Peterson means when he says that "when you go within to face the Dragon, you don't always make it out alive."
The whole thing about eye contact is bs. I find it awkward to constantly look at someone in the eye. I also tend to look at someones mouth when they speak
Your video and the way your explain things is sooo good!! What you said on minute 14:15 about confusing the self with your purpose, it’s just on point!! I think we need more people like you!! 👍👍
Sad State our World has become due to social media brainwashing.... As a retired educator I refuse to use incorrect grammar to appease someones mental delusions. Facts are facts and feelings are just feelings.
WOW! You're one of the most intelligent person I've seen on UA-cam. But I've noticed on your body language that you didn't let go not for one second of that mug in your hand. ✊🍯 Probably like a security blanket. Just my analysis. I over analyze things sometimes. Lol 😄 New subscriber! 👍
Thank you for the comment and the subscription 😊 Yes, that mention had been made by other observers, and I agree it's an "adapter" behavior; something performed in a time of stress in order to soothe or distract. In my real-time life, I scowl profusely while in deep impromptu thought, which is a terribly off-putting behavior I'm trying to be more conscientious of; it's why I script my videos so I don't have to think while filming 🤣 I appreciate your engagement and observation, and welcome more! Cheers 🍻
6:13 I dunno, it could be that she gets emotional in this way as the question has reminded her of her body before and that upsets her, as she didn't like her body before. However, Artemis might be right, as after all Elliot had her transition very quickly - too quickly, compared to most people. There was no time for it to all sink in. Perhaps a proper decision wasn't made.
It’s hard to watch…… I feel bad for…….. Elliot ……😮😢❤ even though she may think she wants to be a real boy like Pinocchio….a girl can’t be a boy and people are gonna make their own judgement and call it like they see it….you could call yourself a unicorn 🦄 but people, rightfully so , won’t believe you and will think you’re crazy . Thanks 🙏 so much for your video, I’m subscribed.
Hey, you didn’t talk about what tea you were drinking! I feel offended. This is a very difficult topic; it gives me conflicting feelings. On one hand, the concept of ”judging if someone is a real trans person or not” leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. Probably because it can be used in very bad ways, I’m likely associating it with things like conversion therapy. At the same time, mental disorder comorbidity is such an important thing to adress. With mental issues like anxiety, anorexia and depression, it’s fully normal to go ”your brain is lying to you” etc, or being able to state that a severely depressed or suicidal person does not know what is genuinely best for them. Psychologists and therapists need to be able to ”challenge what’s in your brain” for any sort of therapy to work. That’s not transphobic, it’s making a proper diagnosis to make sure the patient gets the best possible help. As an aspie, I was not gender-conforming in my teenage years, and I kind of felt like an alien in general . As far as I know, this is very normal for aspies. Perhaps even more so for female aspies, because they often don’t get diagnosed until much later and therefore don’t know ”what’s wrong with them”. I also think that female aspies might enjoy ”typical male hobbies” more often, and that might lead to a confused identity, when it’s just about their brain being ”aspie wired”. While I’m not a psychologist, I wouldn’t think it strange at all if these people would feel a sense of belonging when they hear about trans identity. That it could be seen as an answer to their feelings of not belonging anywhere. I also think there’s a lot of problems with the ”surgery will fix my problems” mindset, as you’re touching on. It can absolutely help people, but it shouldn’t be used to place the responsibility for one’s mental health somewhere else. That will likely just increase feelings of helplessness and victimhood, regardless if they’re ”genuinely trans or not”. Cheers!
Excellent input, my friend. What you were saying about the "bad taste in your mouth" is such a huge factor for so many people that I did a video addressing it- "Troubles and Considerations in Questioning and Gatekeeping the Transgender Community"- and that you were able to stomach it to hear the information is commendable and respectable! I think you're right, too, I'm taking myself too seriously and forgetting about the detail that everyone is *really* coming to the channel for: the tea selection! 🤣 But for real, I'm sorry for missing that detail... I need to keep it together! Always good to hear from you, talk soon I hope and I wish that all is well with you 😊
That thing about aspies, and especially female aspies, rings very true to me (dx:ed at 40 as "somewhat"). I matured quite young (no growth after 12yo), and am very short and curvy. And because of my age I only really learned about the possibility of FtM when I was around 18-20. And at that time I just draw the rational conclusion that passing would never be possible for me. Besides, I find skirts and dresses comfy (as a child I took it as a signifier of female-ness, but have later understood that it was actually more to do with sensory problems - I insisted on skating and skiing in skirts!). I do wonder how I would navigate things if I was young now. Would the "transcommunity" appeal to me? Maybe. But maybe not. The older I get the more I toy with trying on "masculine style brain pattern" as an alternative label for "autistic style brain pattern". It feels quite nice. (It was interesting taking a battery of psychological tests for some occupational assessment, I score smack in the middle of the male scale and out to the side of the female one.) And the older I get, the more I start to understand why I had such a hard time with typical "girl socialising" when I was a child. The amount of brainpower I have poured into trying to decode social stuff is staggering in hindsight, if you don't have the instinct for that it is really complicated and hard work. I can imagine choosing a male role could feel like a "get out of social jail -card" to some aspiesh female teenagers.
i wouldn't mis-gender Elliot. i watched this interview and i felt a bit sad and confused because i really wanted to be happy for Elliot. I wouldn't be caught dead in a dress, i don't like being in a female body - that being said I don't wish to be male - And i've had decades to ponder that.
Hi there! Thank you for engaging 🍻 You may want to check out my video "We may be approaching transgender medicine backwards...", because in there I talk about how we may be framing the question for transgender care in a way that leaves some people in the spectrum out. As in, I wasn't "trying to be male" when I transitioned; it just so happened that testosterone and a double mastectomy were good moves for me and consequently I now look like a male. I can relate to your not-liking-to-be-in-a-female-body without necessarily wanting/needing to be male 👍
I thought pronoun choice was usually based on the perceptions of the speaker rather than an inherent quality of the referent, at least until recently and in the general community in the anglosphere. Don't know about within the LGBTQ+ community. I am happy to use people's preferred pronouns but I don't like that we're all expected to have our own set of pronouns now. I usually want to say 'use whatever pronouns feels natural for you when referring to me' but there's no space for that on forms. Sometimes i say 'any' which probably leads people to think I identify as nonbinany. I don't feel truthful saying that she/her are "my pronouns" (i'm female) because the pronouns people use when talking about me don't belong to me. I don't own their speech. And it feels like being coerced to participate in controlling behaviour. I feel like this is somewhere where the trans community might be shooting themselves in the foot (or trans activists might be making thnings worse for regular trans people). Personally, I was fine and accepting of "preferred pronouns" but now we're not allowed to say "preferred" anymore (I think that framing is regarded as transphobic?), we have to say "he uses he/him pronouns" or "Elliott's pronouns are he/him". I do see a lot of people just going along with it though, apparently happily, so my intensity of feeling about it is also probably a me thing. This happens on the gender critical side too. There are extremists who police mis-sexing rather than mis-gendering.
Thank you for your well-thought comment! I agree with your reasoning on compelled speech, and also that the radical voices of the LGBTQ "community" are causing social backlash. I did a video about the history and implication of pronoun usage- at least, here in the United States- called "To (S)he or not to (S)he"", and myself learned that in other parts of the world they can be viewed quite differently. I'm musing on another video currently about the psychological underpinning of this "multiple pronoun option" movement here, which I find gets at the heart of the issue (short version: lack of boundary between "self" and "feelings"). Thank you again for taking the time to watch the video and leave such a quality comment; I hope to hear more from you in the future! Cheers 🍻
Thank you for making this video. I just have been doing research about trans and female to male transitioning as my ex was born female, and is now transitioning in the male and I had to break up with her because I was not comfortable with it after they came out to me after a long time of dating them as a female, and it just wasn’t for me, but now I understand to get more I feel like they’re are making the wrong decision and acting of emotions and influence rather than a personal decision and they are 19 and I feel like that is too young to transition. Either way I understand and get more from people who are trans and that there are people who can make mistakes in transitioning and regret it is more understanding now.
You're welcome, my friend. That age can be a very vulnerable one to this ideology ("transgenerism"), because at 18 in the United States one can pursue medical treatment, yet our brains are not fully developed until around 25 years. The pre-frontal cortex- the portion responsible for reasoning/logic/risk assessment- is the last piece to mature. By this point, people who pursue transgender medicalization can be irreversibly changed. While I do believe there are people out there who benefit from cross-sex hormones and certain types of transsexual surgeries, the fact is that many in this current era who try them will later regret it. Worse, in the United States there is a general "affirmation only" model amongst licensed therapists- meaning, if you say you are, then you are, they will not question you. So, therapy is not doing the gatekeeping that it originally was meant to do. I am sorry that you've had to experience this loss, though I hope for your sake and hers that it turns out alright.
Thank you for the response yea I’m 24 and I have a ton of tattoos but some I regret none I hate but I definitely would have waited same I tired to tell him with transitioning I think you should wait till your in your mid 20s to transition cuz you know yourself better, there’s a good amount of people who de transition or who regret it and are not happy a lot of people suffer from gender dismopria and depression but transitioning isn’t really the way to solve it cuz in the end she was depressed and still is depressed she dropped out of school quit her job doesn’t drive or have a license I don’t think she’s in the right mindset to be trans and she’s just mis identifying herself but idk it’s not my desicion sadly her parents and therapist support her
@@t-timewithartemis4174 and thank you I don’t have anything against trans people or the idea of it but just like a tattoo I think people should think about it long and hard and understand the implications of the surgery and the way it will affect thier life cuz it is permanent and life changing and I don’t think a lot of trans people including Elliot page realize the impact it has on your life to no longer have your breast and stuff I couldn’t imagine going through that mentally changing myself but
I do not agree with your assessment of Elliot. His transition was still quite recent at the time of this interview and he has gone through a lot. He says he went through a difficult time, never feeling comfortable in his own being and memories of those difficult times may still be effecting him. I hope he continues to recover and heal through the process.
i'm confused about elliot... so he came out as a lesbian before, then he decided he's trans. so now he's a man, yet he was married to a woman. so he's straight?
If you ask me, sexuality is based on genitals, because that's what the definition of sex is, as it relates to physical expression. If one is a female sexually attracted to females, then that is designated as a lesbian. Therefore, since it's impossible to change sex, Elliot will always be a female so being attracted to females means she is a lesbian. Gender identity or adoption of expression of a sex does not change your sexuality (or sex) designation. I hope that makes sense.
I've thought this exact same thing as well. But do you really need to misgender him? I understand why you do.....But what is gained?? Besides a moral superiority?? Or rational superiority? Does that mean if we were friends and I had asked you to call me she, you would not?? Or would you to my face, as a courtesy, but then not behind my back?? I really don't understand the need to do that. I'm not criticizing you either, just trying to understand. Like I get biological reality and all that and im ok with being misgendered by strangers cuz they see what they see.
But if you know someone and they've asked for pronouns is it not our human courtesy to allow that for them? The same as if a Donald prefers Don. Or Michelle prefers Shelly. You wouldn't be a dick and continue calling them what they've asked you not to right?
I see pronouns in the same way..... more of a courtesy thing. If you're a decent person ill call you whatever pronoun you want. If you're a dick, ill probably "misgender" you out of lack of respect (For instance).
In this case I respect Elliot Page enough to say him. Until he does something that removes my respect I see no reason to call him she. (Does that make sense?)
Its the same way I call the "Its Ma'am meme" guy a guy and he. Cause he's clearly exercising his "he-ness" all over the place and lost my respect. Even though he's a trans woman.
Whats your take on that?
So you can make a distinction between Elliot and Mrs Ma'am.
Artemis makes distinctions on slightly different line.
when I try to imagine situations when someone demands the use of a pronoun, I think of aristocracy demanding devine right from the peasants, and its expression being a capitulation to the hierarchy.
So I'm not fond of the idea.
I'm happy enough to call anyone by whatever they like in day to day life. But I draw the line at any kind of coercion, be that legal or screaming.
@@GDKLockout agreed. Like I said. For me it comes down to respect. If I respect you you're far more likely to have me pronoun you how you want. Ruin that respect and it becomes harder for me to do so.
Sadly passabiity plays a big factor into it as well. If you look like the gender you're going for then its also far more likely you'll get the pronouns. I go outside and rarely get misgendered. But do I get mad if one stranger happens to say he. Nope. Not a chance. I do however get slightly irked when friends do it.....because there's the element of respect in there. And they're showing lack of it, which makes me question the friendship. Know what I mean?
Its very complicated for sure. But a good guage......is if strangers gender you how you want to be gendered then you're doing something right.....if they don't, you gotta work on your transition. But definitely shouldn't get upset at them. Thats childish.
But if friends maliciously and purposely don't want to respect your pronouns then its time to question the friendship? I'm still on the fence on that one tho.
But yeah
...respect....its why the "its maam" meme person lost my respect. Cuz he blew up at that cashier like a hulk. So...he'll forever be a he to me now until he can show me he deserves my respect. (And since I don't know him personally I doubt that's gonna happen)
Great question and I'm *really* glad you asked; doing so tells me that even though you may be irked by my practice, you're still holding room for curiousity which is massively respectable. I have a video coming out to address pronouns cause it's a monster of a topic that has tons of nuance, but I will do my best to answer you here. As I said in the last comment, all of what I am about to say is with a very neutral tone and I mean no insult by any of it, and I realize that conveying anything that might prompt someone to confront inconvenient truths about themselves or suggesting that someone is somehow defective often triggers offense. I do my best to give exactly what I think and know while being as tactful and kind as I can; I want people to live the best life they can and I don't believe that can be done if we're always talking to avoid negative emotions.
Before I can even answer you though, I have to shed some light on the frame of reference you're using to explain potential reasons for my behavior. So, you're having a hard time pinning down why I refuse to use Elliot's preferred pronouns because you view the practice from the underlying belief that I would do it out of some kind of superiority, when that word doesn't enter my mind at all as a motivation for me. Humans have a tendency to see things in a competitive sense, because our genetic coding is geared towards physical survival. In this day in age in many areas of the world, now that we don't have to compete physically, we compete in the emotional sphere, over "who is more superior", and it's a very archaic way of thinking and behaving. If I feel like someone isn't worth my time interacting with, I excuse myself politely and that's the end of that. No digs, no "gotcha's", no misgendering on purpose just to annoy someone because that brings me to an immature level. I'm interested in solutions and civil discourse, and you can't get there with petty behavior. When you stop seeing everything as a competition and work towards mutual respect for each other's perspectives and autonomy, you've shifted the frame entirely and can actually begin to make progress.
So, to begin to answer your questions "what is gained by me not using Elliot's preferred pronouns", and "would I misgender you behind your back?": You might have heard the part in the video where I said "there are certain circumstances for which I would use someone's preferred pronouns", because I recognize there are definitely times when breaking the biological rules of pronoun usage make more social sense, and I'm fine with that. You said so yourself that you have a sense of when courtesy should be extended for preferred pronoun usage, just for me the bar is a little higher. If someone clearly is not taking steps to align themselves with the gender they claim, then especially no, I will not honor that pronoun, much like you and the "Ma'am meme guy". My bar goes higher to say that it takes time and dedication for me to use a preferred pronoun, and whether or not I respect them doesn't enter the picture because that's a subjective judgement and gets messy quickly. I could hate someone's guts and as long as they were consistent and time-honored with their gender expression for the pronoun they want, then I would be bound to that to uphold integrity in what I believe, and not be dragged into the petty behavior of "I'm going to misgender you because I think you're a jerk." Since it seems to me that you're consistent and benign in your gender expression, I would call you as you wish, in and out of your presence. Elliot, on the other hand, has had only one year of testosterone and transgender experience; which, by the way, is a WPATH violation to allow someone top surgery with less than a year on cross-sex hormones, and to me just screams Hollywood elite getting pushed to the front of the line for an agenda and I don't buy it. It also takes a lot of time to adjust and integrate this kind of experience and until it's a lived experience that sticks and is proven genuine with time, I cannot honor it, and this brings me to what is gained by me holding out on preferred pronouns until proven consistent: as a more cautious minded individual, I believe that if I did not express more discernment and concerns, it opens the door for hasty action that leads to trouble (ie all the detrans stories of people who aren't trans and regret it). It's the classic battle between the left wing and the right wing (political parties): one stands for creativity, innovation and progress, the other stands for security, stability and tradition. We absolutely need both sides for the best balance. There is a kind and empathetic way to hold boundaries like I am talking about in withholding preferred pronoun use, and it's unfortunate that most people only know the "I won't use your pronouns because I dont like you". If I love or care about someone who is going to transition, I would square with them and say "I love you and want the best for you. I'm not sure if this is it, and until I am, in order to compromise and respect both of us as much as possible, I will use the pronoun that I see in you." A conversation doesn't happen like this very often because people are not used to being able to respect someone else's viewpoints/freedom of speech and not take it personally, even if that person is professing their love and care all along the way. I do not see it as a human courtesy to use preferred pronouns with no grounds for reasoning other than "you seem like a nice person", because pronouns are not subjective, they're objective, meaning they're rooted in fact. If you're going to override those, there had better be really good reasoning, and not just "as a courtesy". Now, names on the other hand are totally different. Names are as subjective as they come, and if you wanted me to call you Lavender Fields I totally would.... because that's fun and as far as I can tell, totally harmless (because you don't think you're a field of lavender and take steps to become that, only to one day realize it isn't for you and try to undo the patch of lavender that you've had surgically implanted all over your body). The analogy is extreme and meant for a little comedy, and also to point at the false equivalency fallacy that was made when comparing names to pronouns.
There is also a small anecdote that I have that adds weight behind my choice to withhold pronouns until proven, and that is that I had a friend of mine who still took his life even though everyone around him affirmed his pronouns. Using his pronouns didn't save him. It's likely he had other comorbid mental health issues, but the excuse that people use of "using preferred pronouns saves lives" isn't always true, and I wonder if the front of being transgender didn't get in the way of uncovering what the real issues were. There's a ton more to unpack with that but I'll save it for the video. I hope I sufficiently answered your questions! It's insanely complicated, and I aim to give respect to both parties.
@@t-timewithartemis4174 well said. The part where you said "ill call you the pronoun i see in you". Irks me a little bit. Because who are you to dictate whether someone's transition is valid or not.
I have a friend like this that consistently calls me he. He has said its "because he doesn't think im trans and can only ever see me as a man". Now....thats fair. But its not really up to him is it. He's known me for 18 years....so of course he "doesn't think im trans" cuz to him its all sudden and unexpected. He wasn't in my brain for my whole life and only knows a very small sliver of who i am. And do him....thats his memory. And its valid....
But that doesn't mean he's right in his assumption, just because he "can only ever see the old me". Doesnt mean im not trans. And doesn't mean he should disrespect me like that. Because we're friends.
But....I still love him and am friends with him because fuck it. Thats why I said im still on the fence about cutting out friends simply for misgendwring.
But eventually he's gonna switch automatically because so many times it's been pretty awkward when we're out and he says it and all the other people are like....um....who are you referring to. And then during the course of the night hell call me she.
So over time....it will become natural and hopefully he will see me for who I am and not his own projection of who he wished I was or thought I was.
But yeah....its interesting. I allow him to misgender me because I've been friends with him for 18 years and he's allowed his own perception of me for sure. We can't control peoples perceptions. But.....how long will it take before im "trans enough" for him. Know what I mean??
Thats why I think its dangerous to judge someone else transition based on a very limited perception of that said person. And while we might think we know whats best for them....we really just don't ever have the full picture.
I do get where you're coming from and what you're saying though.
That being said...I have a friend going for top surgery and I really really really want to warn them against it. Because in my mind...I can see they're not actually trans. (Whether thats true or not brings me back to what I said above, above having a full pictuee) but my limited perception is that they're confused. But thats not my job to stop them or warn them. They will figure it out on their own.
@@Lavender_1618 Lots of good stuff in there, I'll have to make my response brief: Ultimately I err on the side of respecting free speech. Calling you a pronoun that I see doesn't invalidate someone's transition or trans-ness, it's reflective only of that person's views and beliefs. I talk about that concept in the video "no one can invalidate you". After 18 years, yeah, I'd say you more than earned it and it is a little puzzling to me that he would still call you a she; I would be tempted to say that you may be right in that he is the one holding onto something he wants, but also men are a lot more subconsciously invested in biological distinctions because their programming is more heavily geared towards sex. That's why women usually don't have a problem with using preferred pronouns and it's usually a guy bringing objections to the table.
To your friend getting top surgery, you're right, it's not your job to say anything and if they didn't ask for it then it's up to you on whether or not to stay quiet. For me, I can't stay quiet and I don't want friends who would rather I stay quiet; I want friends to be honest with me if they see something I may not, and vice versa. To each his/her own!
I felt like I was watching someone who would be punished if they didn't say the right thing. It was creepy and made me sad.
Why has being a women been reduced to 'wearing a dress' and let's face it 'being heterosexual'. Too many young masculine lesbians being heartbreakingly led into believing they cannot be their authentic selves in their body of birth.
Exactly.
Thank you!
i dont get why people can't just be a feminine male or a masculine female without thinking tehy are in the wrong body. could just wear boyish clothes and have boy mannerism and not mutilate your body
Here's how I've come to reason with that:
Some people have emotional trauma that leads them to believe they need to change their bodies. It could be that they grew up with parents and influences that didn't support non-conforming gender expression, or they may even have suffered sexual trauma. They just need some therapy to help them sort through their feelings and reasoning. Unfortunately, there are still places in the world where people are not supported just to be themselves, and try to force them into boxes. For transsexual people like Blaire White or even myself, we don't believe that we were born in the wrong body; instead, we have a medical disorder that causes us to feel/operate better on cross sex hormones and certain surgeries. It's much like someone who is intersex- born with ambiguous sex markers (neither fully male or female genitals). It's a genetic mixup that happens in the womb.
It's a pretty complex thing, but I hope that helps. Feel free to check out my video "Meta to Molecular..." where I take a deep dive trying to define transgenderism. Thank you for your comment, cheers! 🍻
Elliot seems extremly emotional unstable. And im with you , that there are underlying mental health issues where transition is not the solution and professionals should differ that, because it leads to malpractice.
Many years ago I recall seeing them interviewed and thought they were mentally unstable back then. I don't think it has anything to do with identity issues, I think they likely have always been mentally ill. They are far too intense, in an abnormal way.
@@bingonamo7520”ThEy”
@@bingonamo7520grew up in Hollywood. There's the cause for ya
The absolutely disgusting issue with this whole thing is why, oh why didn't psychiatrists (I'm assuming they were involved in Elliott's transition) pick up on this and put the wellbeing of their patient first.
@@turquoiseopalfruit Because in the USA transing the gay away is a good money spinner. Thats one of the many problems with not having socialised healthcare like we do in Europe. Also the psychiatric profession has been infiltrated and captured by the gender woo cult. Good psychiatrists have a choice they can either go along with this “affirmative care” model or lose their jobs. Many have left the profession because they know how utterly wrong it is to affirm a vulnerable person’s delusions and not even explore other ways of looking at their dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is the only mental illness/condition (all dysphoria are) that therapists are being told not to question and told they must affirm the illness. It’s a bigger medical scandal than lobotomies. The USA is an absolute abortion of a nation. This shit is repugnant. Paige and so many other young vulnerable kids have been utterly let down by adults around them and the medical institutions.
Poor girl had extreme body & gender dysmorphia & took far to extreme measures to deal with it. This madness must stop
Classic example of having the money to destroy yourself. 40 years ago,if I had been a famous person. I’d probably be dead. Till cheap opiates took over. Most people couldn’t afford to harm themselves with sex,drugs and rock and roll. Lol
Pays to be poor when you’re young. 😂
@@clarks58facts! I heard another podcaster say that the extreme poor and extreme rich get the worst health care. The rich bc they get sold all these extra interventions w out being told about the effects / risks properly.
Yes, I agree. Her brain and line if thinking reads very very feminine.
Huh I was almost feeling like maybe she gave herself body dysphoria by transitioning when it wasnt really the solution and regrets the changes she made. Not that I can know if that's true or not but the feeling was not very positive in the video.
@@anakadmon6606I follow this girl who got on t within a few months of asking it seemed like. Within like two years it went from nonbinary, to trans male. And she still wears very feminine clothing and presents feminine, like she did before surgery. I do worry about this happening to her and I fear it does she will double down.
I feel sorry for Elliott. Getting caught up in a whirlwind of gender campaigns and ending up with lasting and permanent mistakes on the other end
Feel more sorry for the countless confused kids she's influenced with her 'trans joy' (obvious) lie.
@@lefroy1exactly. At a certain age I have less and less empathy. Talking to people who are thirty and older and full of shit about this is infuriating. Talking to these young people, its frustrating but I do feel for them
I have seen the same thing with Jazz Jennings. There is a videoclip, where she is reacting to Matt Walsh, and she proclaims to be happy and comfortable in her body, but she closes her eyes the entire time she says it.
What did I feel when watching that? Like I wanted to run. I felt extreme anxiety, I physically cringed.
It's the traumatic fear of being a WOMAN that can lead to this.
I wonder why she feels that way
I'm so sick of people saying kids will die if you don't encourage them to ruin their bodies. If trans want to play sports they need to get their own trans sports
I hope she does not kill herself, she looks like she's in so much pain. She needs help. I felt really sad for her when she was describing her "joy".
Well stop misgendering him.
Yes, I agree; I felt sadness for her too as she described her " joy"; Ellen Page is still there, and always will be.
Yeah... that sounded more like 100% regret
now , elliot just appears to be a stunted , pubescent boy. no where near manly.
....but she thinks being a man. Performing man? She started out as a woman (not a man) and she's still not a man. She's not even "giving" man (as the kids say it these days).
People don't believe that transgender is or could be a trend unfortunately, that's really the problem, too many young people especially are confusing their personality and being manipulated into believing that their personality, likes dislikes, taste and interests, is actually *trans*
And then cosmetic altering is being sold and promoted as a cure all, to kids who ten years ago would never have been allowed a nose job even if it made them feel better!
Really interesting video thanks
To be honest she still looks like she is very sickly. I guarantee she is still struggling with some of the issues she said she had before she transitioned.
Hope she will make de transition soon
One way or another, he looks very unwell/unhappy to me. I hope it works out well.
How absurd to say that trans kids are or will be denied playing sports...when the issue is simply not allowing male to female trans is unfair to REAL females.
I was comparing this interview to the interview with Ellen Degeneres in which she talked about coming out as lesbian - the emotions conveyed are startingly different.
Interesting. I definitely felt awkward. It's the exact same way I feel when I tell my boss that I like my job and/where I work during a merit review.
"Elliot" seems like a cult member being interviewed.
Something is really at play with Ell. The eyes reveal a lot of tragedy. I think the Japanese refer to this as sanpaku eyes.
She's playing the role of her life, badly. My thoughts are that Ellen got addicted to the praise and attention she got when she came out as a lesbian. She wanted to relive that attention and glory, so she went to the next level, the ultimate in narccicistic supply - coming out as 'trans'.
Maybe.
It seems all she or he now cares about is validation.
I don't see narcissism in this person. she seems so anxious and tense, a small presence in the room trying to be smaller. it's quite cynical and unempathetic to assume that all these people are attention-seeking narcissists, I think many of them are mildly autistic or naturally awkward. for autistic people, being in a near constant state of discomfort with yourself and the world around you is just a feature of the condition and something you have to learn to manage. I feel sorry for many of these folks.
@@froogsleegs Go back and watch clips of her a few years ago. There was nothing anxious and tense about her. Quite the opposite. She's clearly jumped on another bandwagon for attention. She might feel anxious and tense because deep down she knows it. Or because she's acting the part. She is an actress after all.
@@froogsleegs and it's arrogant and self righteous of you to assume they're all just awkward or autistic.
@@SingmetheSea yes, I shouldn't assume. you're right about that. I am very familiar with autism, though, and the trans community is majority autistic. the Tavistock gender clinic in the UK confirms that 90% of their patients are also autistic. there's a very clear correlation between the two. I'd agree that somebody having a trans identity is usually a flag for narcissism. but statistically they're more likely to be autistic, especially if you go past "I'm trans" to the stage where they are considering hormones/surgery. it's important to point out that people who are aware on some level that they are socially disabled may try to self-medicate or cure it somehow. with people constantly saying shit like "trans is the future" "you are valid" "be kind" under the trans flag it appeals to socially vulnerable people by default. we should remember that
I think Elliot and Demi’s transition and coming out seems forced and kinda like they’re… coping with something and this is an escape from that. Now that’s NOT with all trans people but this can apply to some
I thought that too it's part of the satanic agenda....they are told to transition from women to man....smh
Or perhaps coerced to become idealogical posters in exchange for more fame ?
@@lightlightlightWell Demi is now using she/her pronouns again, so I don’t think she’s trans. I think she’s just going through things along with having bipolar and mental issues
Most.
Trying to Be yourself is already hard enough in life , but it's hell trying to be something you're not..
I remember watching this and thinking she didn't seem happy or comfortable at all; the constant closing of her eyes and almost tearful tremor of her voice was especially concerning to me. At this point in time, with the publication of the memoir, "Pageboy", Page appears to be committed to the bit. We'll see what happens going forward.
I don't necessarily think that you can judge whether Elliot is trans or not based on one interview. Especially when you consider that this is the first time Elliot is talking publicly after coming out as trans. There is still a lot of stigma against being trans so it is understandable that he was probably nervous during the conversation.
Trans identities are elevated above every other group, especially for men claiming to have magicked into women. Especially white men.
Women claiming to ‘be’ men are only ever famous for topless shots (with or without ab inserts) and pregnancy, while the mulvaneys of the world get to dominate everything female.
Body language is not a very reliable way to judge even if it was 100 interviews, that being said I feel like something is obviously up with Elliot just based on human empathy alone
Eliot never felt comfortable being female yet she is.
@@louwinters508 maybe elliot was never comfortable with the male attention a female body attracted. This is a common cause of gender dysphoria which many young girls and women experience. Especially for a celebrity with all eyes on them and for nearly every one during puberty.
This is like watching somebody's body language to assess if they're gay. This is quack science at best.
Very interesting. When she talked about what brought the most joy, I reacted with nervousness for her, like a sympathetic response to someone caught off guard who has to act/lie.
What kind of mental issues do you believe she has?
I'll be honest, I don't really know what, if any, diagnosable disorder may be manifesting, though it's clear to me that anxiety is present. Some have speculated that she is on the autism spectrum, which would lend greater clarity as to why she has gender identity issues. It's known that there is a high correlation between gender identity issues and autism, due to the prevalence of alexithymia; it doesn't mean that these individuals are transgender, it simply means they have a harder time distinguishing their inner experiences and turn to transgenderism as a potential solution for their confusion. I'm working on a video about that now, actually.
@@t-timewithartemis4174 Yes, she's stammering sometimes and feels quite uncomfortable.
All in all, coming out as trans doesn't exactly seem like a liberating pill of joy in her case, at all.
Holy shit, this is very thought provoking, unique content. Almost everyone would be afraid to say this (even though a lot of us have thought her transition is questionable) due to what the wokies would do. You've earned this click on the subscribe button. Looking forward to watching more of the uploaded videos on your channel.
Elliot is obviously so uncomfortable with herself. Watching her speak about her “joy” left me feeling the exact opposite of joy.
Yeah they really should've gone on T and Binded and lived as a man for at least 1-2 years before top surgery. The fact that they did top.surgery first before even hormones is kinda scary. But well see.
@Dan Banny yeah....well wake up to the fact that gatekeeping is needed sorely. Cuz trans people DO exist. Just not on the scale were seeing it.
Social contagion runs in biological women for some reason it seems (historically anyways, not meant to be a sexist statement just a fact) and its easy to see in the data.....like its so obvious this is what is occurring among young women. an almost 3000% increase in FTMs and 600% increase in detransitions among FTMs, while MTF numbers have remained relatively stable / grown at the slow rate you would expect with wider social acceptance....
The data doesnt lie.
And unfortunately it will be transwomen that will bear the brunt of most of this....cuz society hyperfocuses on us....when really we're not even the demographic they should be looking at in this case
I see no joy. I feel sad for Elliot.
its ELLEN page
It's ELLLIOT PAGE, pronouns = HE! Not she or her. Please stop misgendering.
It’s so clear she is struggling, why are people ignoring that!
Because it's not cool to admit it
she looks like she's ready to take a nervous breakdown, i hope she's getting some kind of help with this
I get your point.
I think Ellen felt pressured to become a dude because of the gender ideals placed on her in Hollywood.
Whatever she or he wants to call himself or herself whatever is nothing to do with me.
I just think Eliot is nuts. But I wish him the best and don't feel any sort of anger or hatred about it.
She's so desperate to be edgy and so in need of attention. The over acting is so silly looking.
She seems unstable.
Thank you for such an informative video. I have no idea what Elliot thinks besides what he says in interviews. All I know is that I see a person in pain, that has not yet found solutions to that ache😢
Wow I'm glad your video got recommended to me..I believe you are completely spot on with this..I feel as if she does regret transitioning..but you know how Hollywood is so I don't know if she feels she can even go back..but again great video.i subbed.
I thought clothes didn't have any gender.
"Children will die if they can't play sports" how absurd. Also nobody is saying trans peple can't play sports and sports has always excluded people who don't meet the requirements to make the team.
Female sports is and has always been a biological category.
Excellent breakdown, I don't pretent to be educated in body language at all, but I came to a few of the same conclusions you did. I really appreciate your take, and think you absolutely nailed it. I hope Elliot/Ellen finds some peace in thier life. I still remember watching him as a young child playing Jim Lahey's daughter on Trailer Park Boys lol, oh how things change.
For heaven’s sake what happened to her to end up like that -she only provokes pity and empathy and the hope that no one of your family and friends has to go through this one day ! She’s completely lost and believes that only this Frankenstein surgery can bring her happiness!
Since when we switched to criminal surgeons from psychiatrists who gave totally up.
And Oprah -completely zero as always ,how she could make such a career and money will always be an enigma for me !
That was very uncomfortable to watch, I hope Elliot finds peace...
That was a very interesting, thoughtful video. I’m left feeling sorry for the waif "Elliott." I don’t see masculine confidence and strength here. I’m puzzled by her leap from "I don’t like these clothing choices" straight into "therefore, I’m a man." In the not so distant "old days," a person couldn’t make a medical transition without first spending a year dressing and living socially as the opposite sex. "Passing." This is a girl, a vulnerable young woman who simply has electively had a bilateral mastectomy. That doesn’t make her a man, and as she comes to realize this, I fear she will find that she couldn’t have been more wrong in making a statement like "children will die" if denied medical transition immediately. Like you, I fear for her future.
Just want to point out that Elliot Page is 35 years old - not a “girl” or “young woman”. There seems to be some infantilization going on bc of her slight stature.
@@00st307-m That's interesting.
Watching these clips (I've actually never seen EP before), I couldn't help but think of the Hollywood pressure to remain young. And my feminism-informed brain started to go in the direction of "hmm, interesting way to avoid the fear and hurt that comes with becoming a not-young woman".
it's fascinating to see how fast he jumps from talking about himself to injustices or ideologies who might not be based on facts. Plus, when he always talks about transgenders in a very dramatic way " children will die, transgenders get killed often, they can't have access to health care etc... "
Elliot looks so so thin. Almost sickly.
Yes, and there's a lot potentially going on behind that observation that I think is worth contemplating; I'm not saying that she has the following, just something to consider. The first is that those "comorbidities" associated with transgenderism often includes eating disorders. The second is that testosterone changes the fat distribution, and so for women taking it this means that the face often gets thinner, and you can have trouble keeping weight on. This is actually my current state of experience; just one thing that must be carefully managed and considered against the potential benefits of hormone replacement therapy for transgenderism.
Sounds like a sensible and clear opinion, thank you Artemis. Hope people listen and consider.👍🏻
But why Elliot? I mean, she could've chosen any name, any name that exists. Elliot is like the laziest, most obvious "choice" like just turn your female name into male name. That bugs me more than anything else. It doesn't give "I am really all into this" vibe, it's more like "lets pick the closest to my birth name". I mean, look at mtf transitioners, they always pick some really great names, they are never like "so I was born as Robert, I will be Roberta now". They are more like "I was born Steve, I am going to be Amanda now". That's more impressive and genuine to me. This sounds sus.
When she started crying, she said it was 'happy tears", they were traumatic years if you ask me.
HE!!!! ELLIOT IS A HE.
He*
@@gemmawilliams3369 SHE is a woman and will always be a woman.
How does flattening the chest make her feel like a man while still having a vagina? Makes no sense to me.
@@Lucifers_bitch1718forever a a she
Sorry bro, we can question all we want but I am gonna call Elliot as he wants until said otherwise by him.
May I ask why? I'd like to understand the fundamental belief behind your choice.
Someone needs to reach out to her!! Like frfr, before she decides on ending herself or sm else horrible. Noone wants to talk about how many ppl off themselves after transitioning, the numbers are dangerously high for such a small community. I’m hoping the best for them. New subscriber here! 950 to be exact, I’m excited to see how far your channel grows, we need to bring the dark reality if this topic to the light
There is so much to unpack with this video and topic. You've provided some insight and clarity, but I'm left with so many more questions. There's so much more work that needs to be done with respect to supporting trans-individuals, but it seems like the current narratives are making things worse. You're brave to speak about it.
If you have some time, I'd welcome what questions you're thinking! It helps me to understand where other people are coming from so that I might be able to better collaborate solutions. I appreciate you commenting!
@@t-timewithartemis4174 I'm happy to send them to you, but I'd feel more comfortable if I can email them directly.
Of course! It's siriusartemis@gmail.com
@@t-timewithartemis4174 thank you! I'll have them out to you by early next week. I'm looking forward to learning more about this!
I appreciate your analysis. Elliot's transition always seemed forced to me. When compared to other people who've transitioned like Kaitlyn, Blaire, and yourself Elliott doesn't seem nearly as comfortable with their transition. We live in chaotic strange times where healthy questioning or raising concerns towards anyone going through with transition is automatically dismissed and ridiculed as transphobic.
Thank you for your words, and I agree with you about the questioning. It's such a big topic that I decided to do a video about it- "Troubles and considerations in questioning and gatekeeping the transgender community". Thank you for the inspiration 🙏
ua-cam.com/video/DdkV654LUQM/v-deo.html
Caitlyn o dear god dont get me started i almost puked
I think you're right on point, and she's not happy with her body and she no's she might have made a muskets and she regrets it,
this interview is ....galling, man. i have deliberately evaded any of this horrorshow since it happened, its even less convincing than i had dared hope for. her own sake. its like someone has a gun trained on her behind the camera. every 'post transition' picture i've seen has that vibe,
While watching that interview, I felt like Page was really lost and confused. Then when she closed her eyes and started moving a lot, I definitely thought she was lying and deflecting.
Page looks painfully anxious. We don't know the causes, perhaps it was largely masked before, but to an outsider there doesn't seem to be improvement.
I appreciate the mature commentary and responses you've made here.
It's interesting to watch Ellen page interviews versus Elliot page. Even when she was super young she had a confident flow. There is a deep disturbance moving in now. Even years later it's still present.
1) If gendered pronouns were tied to biology then languages like mine wouldn't gender everything from inanimate objects to abstract concepts and feelings. Yet the chair i'm sitting on is a she and this room is a he, no chromosomes or genitals to indicate such thing, and we have had to learn as children the gender of every single word we use.
Gender is a construct, and i think just because you may feel fine letting people disregard your own identity, doesn't mean that every other trans person has to have that forced upon them by you or anyone.
No, i don't think its cool to throw a fit any time someone misgenders you, but it has value to advocate for the respect of peoples' identities.
Biology is biology and acknowledging it has its own time and place (with each person's doctors), for the everything else we are people, not our genitals.
2) The entire field of body language reading is known for misrepresenting those of us who are, as anglo speakers are calling it now, neurodivergent. Among other things, eye contact is something that has been given such a huge amount of validity as an indicator of someone's "true feelings and intent" that it has made it hell to carry on social interactions for people like me, who simply feel different about it.
You can trust me when i say if i'm making eye contact with you i'm putting on a front and all my energy into said eye contact so you will buy that i'm feeling much more comfortable than i actually am. But when i can let my energy go to everything else, on how i'm feeling and what i want to share with you and not worry about where my eyes, or my hands, are going i can be my most honest self.
I dont really know much about Elliot, only met him from Umbrella academy but from what i've seen and heard he seems to have always been the less social type of person that would do the same type of thing. And i think whatever his situation may be, which i am not saying the scenario you propose is impossible, he still deserves to have this aspect of him respected as well as any trans person does, because the alternative is you are contributing to the undervalue of someone's genuine identity for the chance you might be right.
And just to add to this: i do not have LGBTQ friends, not in real life or online. I have not been "recruited" into this way of thinking, i have only had casual conversations with a few trans people in person because i happen to go to a general health center with a trans care unit, so sometimes you make chat while waiting in line. All this is to say, i do not really lose or gain much from thinking this or that way, i don't have skin on this, and yet i was raised to respect people for who they are first, and whatever grievances i may have won't be at the expense of their physical appearance or identity. If someone is rude or shitty in any way, they are so regardless of who they are and that's what i care for and what i will call them up on, not the way they look or their way of life and so on.
And like this, i can't get it in my head how someone who gains or loses nothing can find it so easy to call people the way they feel like, even in a language that is not my own, yet someone who has everything to gain or lose can't.
I appreciate your input, and will clear some things up. I'll also make the disclaimer that I am not upset in the following message, just stating my thoughts and oppositions.
Gender isn't always tied to biology; it's a very complex and nuanced thing. It's also something that we as humans are actively trying to define, since it doesn't really have one accepted definition at the moment and is a relatively new word to the language.
I mentioned in the video that there were scenarios for which I would consider using a preferred pronoun, and am by no means a biology absolutionist in that way; that too is very nuanced for me. I find it really curious though that you would say that just because I do not mind what pronouns people use for me, that "doesn't mean that every other trans person should have that forced upon them". You also say that you were raised to "respect people for who they are... and whatever grievances i may have won't be at the expense of their physical appearance or identity." All of these add up to a very fundamental difference between the way you and I view the world and self: I do not place other people in control of my identity, and I do not believe that it is respectful to default to obeying someone else's exception to the rule. It doesn't mean that rules cannot be broken, it simply means that I do not start with a broken rule; a rule that exists because it's a majority and when it gets broken, there is a higher liklihood of instability. It's just statistics. Everyone who has made the argument that you make believes that other people are responsible for validating someone's identity, and that it is the "respectful" thing to do as a default. I just disagree, and can change my mind if it proves to be a mutually respectful scenario. If someone takes issue with my freedom of speech, then no one is forcing them to stay, or forcing them to listen; the language you used- "force"- falls in line with the "words are violence" narrative, and that is where free speech starts to die. It seems to me that you find it honorable to call someone who is "rude or shitty" by the way they want to be called, but honestly I just see this as you rewarding their bad behavior. I can dislike someone and still use their preferred pronoun, so long as they are doing everything else respectfully- "rude and shitty" are not worthy of respect; respect here is earned, not given- another big difference.
To answer your last pondering, I have recieved more *genuine* respect and support from people outside the LGBT community than inside it especially with this issue, so I do not lose anything with this stance, in my view. I have found that anyone who would not respect my logic in initial pronoun usage and places their validation of identity with me *will* run afoul in their integrity at some point or another and is a social ticking time bomb.
To address your point about body language being different in neurodivergent people, yes, this is true. I watched many of Elliot's other clips though and do not see evidence for neurodivergent; that would be a whole other video analysis. I have known many people on the spectrum high and low, and there are other tells as you mentioned: when you're comfortable you let your eyes wander, you may have other tics or movement that is atypical for a relaxed conversation, and the key here is that this is sustained throughout the conversation- it doesn't just come out when something uncomfortable is asked. Again, you'd have to watch many of her interviews to get the baseline, which if this were more than an amateur analysis I would have shown because many people like yourself have brought up the neurodivergent aspect. That being said, there is a high correlation of people on the autistic spectrum and claims of transgender, many of which are not accurate, which furthers my point of being cautious of Elliot's claims, if she were neurodivergent in this way.
Pandering to pronouns has lost females a space to safely and fairly compete as well as intact male rapists being housed in female prisons
You can respectfully kiss my fat female ass
I don’t get it if he’s so happy why does he looks so miserable
it's trans joy, apparently
I see where you're coming from here, but there could be a multitude of reason why when asked about the best part of transition, negative feelings or insecurity could spring up. For one, Elliots marriage deteriorated, assuming because of them coming out as transgender, I am sure there is contradictory feelings swarming in Elliots mind there, for one Elliot could feel better about himself, but on the other hand someone you love and are still attracted to is no longer attracted to you. Two, Elliot unfortunately needs to transition in the public eye, for all to see and scrutinize. There are people analyzing everything Elliot does and every which way they react in interviews. There are also people publicly disrespecting their name change for political purposes, even though most people who aren't transitioning would be respected if they decided to change their names. They also clearly do not pass quite yet, and naturally have a small stature, I'm sure it is difficult to deal with that, knowing there are certain things you just can not change. That all being said I agree with you on the fact that Elliot, and many other trans people I see form their identity on the basis of transition. For me personally, that seems a tad dangerous, considering being trans is the identity, rather than transition being the means in which allows one to be more comfortable within society. I enjoy hearing your perspective, and respect your views.
I’ve seen a lot of scrutinizing videos on Elliot, but yours is the first that isn’t trying to be sensationalized/giving off extremely uneducated medical information. So props to you.
Thé Elliot interview makes me feel very uncomfortable.
I had no kind of training or education about how to read body language but even a bag of hammers like me can see that she feels completely over hear head with this attention weighing down on her. I honestly think that she never expected this kind of reaction about the choices she made and now understands what kind of backlash would be unleashed if she turned around now.
I honestly think that you are right. About a new stress balloon building up very soon.
I hope transition works - they have been so public that I can’t imagine that they can really detransition if they ever felt that would be best for their mental health.
What a great thread. Actual conversation rather that screaming and name-calling. I kept reading, waiting for it to happen… and it didn’t. I literally have goose bumps. Thank you for this sanity. I’m going to sub.
Thank you so much for taking the time to comment, I genuinely appreciate it and aim to keep providing content like this for viewers like you 🙏✌️💙
The worst thing is that when she finally breaks down because of her mistake, she will blame those who criticized her transition, even though she lives surrounded by people like her, who support and encourage her constantly. The reality about the trans issue is that statistics show that 80% of people who identified as trans in their childhood or adolescence, when they are adults end up identifying themselves simply as gay, and they no longer have the desire to transition or believe that they belong to the opposite sex. That is why we see more and more people regretting having mutilated themselves, or having received hormonal treatments, since the latter leaves them sterile, so they end up living a hell.
To be fair....whenever someone asks me about my transition. I get the same way as Elliot did. Because it brings up so much sadness of how I lived for so long without transitioning. And the weight of that hurts and makes me want to cry every time. But its not an experience most understand.....so I never know how to convey it and I get shifty and shaky lol..... This COULD be what Elliot is feeling? The regret of not having started sooner?? Watch it again with that frame of mind. I'm not saying that's what it is.....but thats how I related to it 100%
I also was wondering if Elliot was experiencing a form of grieving? I appreciate you sharing your experience, I can't imagine how hard the entire process is and I'm sure it takes years to integrate all of your changes (mind/body/spirit). I hope things have gotten easier for you and you're able to find happiness and fulfillment.
I completely understand what you're saying here, and I'll do my best to make the distinction between how I drew my conclusions and the experience you're relating.
So, in body language analysis, the wording of the question that preceded the body language is absolutely critical in order to make any kind of reasonable assumption of meaning, and to demonstrate I will give you an example. Say you have a suspect in custody, and this individual is hiding the fact that they killed their significant other, but it was a crime of passion that they regret immensely. When they are asked, "Do you feel badly that this person is dead?", they will give a very genuine show of sadness that might cause you to believe that they had nothing to do with the death. However, if you ask, "Did you kill this person?", the body language here will tell you what you need to know, most of the time. So, to relate this to what you have said: You said that when asked about your transition, it dredges up a lot of negative feelings and therefore your body language shows this, and that is very reasonable and even expected. However, Elliot was *very* specifically asked about "what brought you the most joy in transition", a question that focuses explicitly on happiness, and nowhere in there did she even smile; in fact the longer she responded, the more painful it got. If I asked you, "What has been the best part of your transition?", I would be shocked if initially, instead of focusing on the positive, you went straight to the negative. You might spiral towards the negative eventually, but your initial response is the important one because this is where body language analysis shines; your microexpressions and knee-jerk responses don't lie. Something else to keep in mind: the practice of directing conversational attention with focus words and questions is called priming, and you'd have to be an incredibly aware and skilled communicator to resist this pull. If something like that happens (that you focus immediately on the negative instead of the positive that someone is asking about in your transition) it's still minutely possible that someone is transgender, but it indicates there is a lot of emotional baggage needing unpacked in therapy because a healthy individual can easily cite what makes them happy when asked about it.
One last small side note here is that there are many, many people who would do just as you did: relate to Elliot on some level, and I want to unpack that for a minute. I think that what you're trying to do by explaining another potential reason for Elliot's incongruous behavior, without considering the exact context/wording of the question asked of her, is relating to her to validate your own experience of discomfort on the larger topic of transitioning, but the two experiences are not the same, as I detailed above. People who are more empathetic do this- they empathize- it's a positive human trait in many ways. It just can easily get wrapped up in committing the "false equivalency" fallacy; that is to say, comparing apples to oranges, because we are social creatures that look to see ourselves in others, and also justify our own emotions. It's human behavior 101 (and let me tell you, taking courses like that was the most surreal experience ever, like seeing yourself at a distance and realizing so many things that you do are just programs running at a subconscious level due to millions of years of evolution; it makes you question who you really are).
I say all of this with a very neutral tone and mean no insult by any of it, and I realize that conveying anything that might prompt someone to confront inconvenient truths about themselves or suggesting that someone is somehow defective often triggers offense. I do my best to give exactly what I think and know while being as tactful and kind as I can; I want people to live the best life they can and I don't believe that can be done if we're always talking to avoid negative emotions.
@@t-timewithartemis4174 fair. Yeah I've experienced that feeling of realizing that were all just a bunch of programs repeating ourselves in infinite branches of thought loops. Gender is such an interesting concept for this very reason. Because its one of the core base layers of identity and programming. Theres self, then gender, then the rest. Gender informs literally all of our actions and inaction and thoughts and feelings. Its literally inescapable. Lol. Though 99% of us are highly unaware how these programs are affecting us and subtly changing how we interrelate. Haha sorry....a tangent.
But I agree. Watching it over and over again. I think I agree with your assessment more. As my initial assessment was based on my own experience and relation to it through empathy. The more I watch it from a detached perspective the more I see what you're saying.
Still not gonna call him she just yet tho. For me that will only be possible once they do something to loose my respect. And right now I respect him enough to respect that he wants to transition and be called he. But that can change. "ITS SIR!!!" 🤣
@@Lavender_1618 Well said; thank you for this! It's rare to have true civil discourse these days and I appreciate it so very much. Disagree with me all day long, Madam!
That's what I thought as soon as I watched the interview. I Wish him the best anyways. In my personal experience I would give up veganism, it's not healthy, not for the body as well as for the mind. I belive he's a good person and I wish him thee best, without judging. Thanks for the video
As soon as she transitioned the suicide clock on her started. She’s not long for this world, she convinced herself that if she desexualized herself by cutting off her breasts and claiming that she was a male that would somehow make her less of a victim. But you can’t change the sex that you were born, she is a female and all the trauma that comes with a female still resides in that female body that her gendered soul lives in. She didn’t transition, she just mutilated herself to escape. And she failed. It’s heartbreaking and it’s sad but I won’t be in the least bit surprised when she kills her self; rest in peace Elliott/Ellen Page.
6:30 oh…. no…. oh no.. no no no no
that is not right
Someone help her before she 41%’s.
Thank you for calling this out as a religion. When I detransitioned I felt like I’d been indoctrinated into a cult lol
wow thanks for bringing this to our attention. I actually didn't even question Elliot even though I'm generally someone who can be critical when it comes to someone who says they identify as trans. So, hearing a critical view from a trans man is very interesting and eye opening.
I mean, if she were a trans kid in rural Alabama in the 50's forced to wear a dress to go to church, sure. But she is planetary popular, grown up, Oscar winning actress - you're telling me she doesn't get to say what she wants to wear? Really?? C'mon. The whole story feels so flimsily manufactured. There were PLENTY of famous women wearing suits and appearing androgynous in public waaaay before her, and when it was so much more against the grain of society to do so. And here she is, forced to wear a dress, and no saying in the matter, having a breakdown, poor wee thing. Not buying it. Any of it. And I do 100% believe there is (a very small) percentage of people who really are transgender, but this isn't it. This is a dangerous fad. Great video btw.
I wonder if 40 years in the future how many squeaking little old “men” there will be? It will be weird. Now many of them look like members of a “boy band”. It won’t be so cute when they’re old.
Many of them won’t make it to old age. The hormones have terrible effects on the body.
Thanks for a great analysis. I suspect you are right on all fronts, Elliot does not seem like a happy bunny in the slightest. This is why I am massively against transitioning in minors. And even as adults I would expect medical professionals, doctors/psychiatrists to put the wellbeing of the individual before profit. What a sad state of affairs.
Most of the comments here are so bad (I see this in other videos of him). You know what I hate? When people are so selfish and stupid that they want to believe that he, Elliot, is pretending, because he was soooo hot as a woman (I always see those comments, and it's mostly from dudes and straight people), and seeing someone like him, being who he truly is, it makes them uncomfortable, especially when they were physically attracted to him as a woman, so they deny that he is a trans and just acting. This is why most people don't come out, because of people like them. Most people think trans people are only fat, not society pretty, you know, stereotypes that you see in problematic movies. But not a gorgeous person, like Elliot. This is why I hate most people. They are selfish and shallow. Just be happy for Elliot, it takes a lot, especially in an industry that is so striaght, and undiverse, of course Elliot will be scared to come out. Its not like "influencers," she is a well known actor, and coming out is a big deal, unfortunately.
Literally, like of course he’s nervous it takes so much courage to just be yourself as a trans person. And now people are “questioning his identity”? Like it’s his identity not something you can analyse
I havent read a single comment starting that she is a female solely because she "looks better as a female or is soo much hotter as a female." I have only read logical/analytical reasons.
Looks unstable not nervous
No they're not, 😬 if you're going to analyze how he's acting now, you need to compare it with the way he used to act before the transition and he has always been so anxious during interviews, transition doesn't take away anxiety and dealing with all the world commenting on your stuff doesn't help. There's a lot of mental stuff to deal with. He'll be ok with time and most of the comments are like "this guy used to be so happy during interviews after transition". Maybe they were faking. 🤷🏻♀️ No one knows, it's media. Nothing it's ok at all, but he being anxious it's not a new go and watch interviews before his transition.
She.
I’m not homophobic I could care less about anyones sexual orientation but I’m lost on this subject . Why are men so much better seem so much more confident and at peace with there transition to being a women ? Elliot page looks miserable and scared shitless .
I think that's a fair observation to make, and I have thoughts on it but first have to ask you a few questions/clarify some things:
To be transgender is not a sexual orientation, it's a type of identity. It's confusing, I think, because the "T" is included with "LGB". While Lesbian, gay and bisexual are sexual orientations, transgender is not and I don't think it belongs in that grouping. I think it was placed there as a way to lump it in with anything that wasn't straight/heterosexual, and a way for those outside that to feel like they belonged. Technically, though, it makes no logical sense to me and leads to confusion.
Do you realize that I am a biological female, who generally passes as a male (a "transman")? I only ask that question because I'm not sure if you see me as another example of "lack of confidence", like you see Elliot. If you do see me as another transman with lack of confidence, what does confidence look like to you? I think that's very important to explore in order to answer your question. I mean these questions in the most neutral tone- I'm not at all offended- and just want to understand what you're seeing. I do think that successful and confident transmen do not get much attention, and it is interesting to me that it seems they generally don't seek as much attention or get as much attention as the transwomen do. I think that's partially an optics issue; as in, media spotlight is biased towards transwomen (you might even see this as an example of "the patriarchy", or society dominated by male narcissism). Buck Angel is a very prominent transman, I just think he doesn't get as much press; legacy media is definitely skewed a particular direction for their agendas, in my opinion. There are also any number of reasons why males on average will seem more confident- from cultural, social to biological- but a feature of testosterone is that it does increase confidence for many. I checked on Elliot recently and it seems as though- at least on Instagram, which isn't exactly a big picture- that he's looking much more confident. It could very well be the testosterone causing this now, and at the time of the Oprah interview he had just started the hormone therapy and therefore the effects were not yet seen. On the other side, it's only been 3 years of testosterone for Elliot, and I think more time is needed to tell if it's truly a transsexual issue or that the testosterone is hiding other mental health issues.
I look forward to your response, cheers! 🍻
@@t-timewithartemis4174 I didn't realise watching this. I hope it doesn't come up as rude, but you give an androgynous vibe.
when is anyone in the media gonna talk about Page's BLATANT anorexia, totally ignoring it despite talking about the physical transformation... to "happy and healthy" ugh, cant even put a sarcastic LOL on that, its so grim, and weird, and 1984 levels of compelled fakery.
Wow, I'm not sure what led this video to show up for me but, I'm glad I stuck around! You had so many enlightening points to make and you are very very knowledgeable and intelligent great job!
I greatly appreciate you taking the time to listen and offer the feedback, thank you!
I'm glad to see you saw the same. I felt bad that I didn't feel joy for him, but rather extreme sadness.
Making the cause your identity.
Lots to think about there for me, I might be guilty of that to some extent too. I'll be thinking about this for months. Thanks, but also not thank, trying to be honest with oneself on this level on analysis is bound to be painful.
Absolutely, it's not for everyone. I think it's what Jordan Peterson means when he says that "when you go within to face the Dragon, you don't always make it out alive."
@@t-timewithartemis4174
Well that's nice, I might end up losing my mind altogether. Lovely.
🤣 One more thing to add to the list of "things that I didn't forsee coming" that 2020 has since brought 🤣
I was a fan since her role as Mr. Lahey’s daughter. He’s amazingly talented, sending positivity his way.
The whole thing about eye contact is bs. I find it awkward to constantly look at someone in the eye. I also tend to look at someones mouth when they speak
Your video and the way your explain things is sooo good!! What you said on minute 14:15 about confusing the self with your purpose, it’s just on point!! I think we need more people like you!! 👍👍
Thank you for taking the time to comment, friend, and such kind words, too. I greatly appreciate it and am very glad you enjoyed the content!
I litterly thought this was a trans woman but its a trans man, sometimes i can't tell unfortunately. I feel bad now idk why i even posted this.
I appreciate you sharing! Maybe it'll help you to know that most people think the same as you 😉 I'm not at all offended.
@@t-timewithartemis4174 hey I actually was more focused on what u were saying to really wonder actually, ur very wise.
@@zestzonertheoblivious5828 Same here! And yes they are very intelligent and have interesting insights.
Sad State our World has become due to social media brainwashing.... As a retired educator I refuse to use incorrect grammar to appease someones mental delusions. Facts are facts and feelings are just feelings.
WOW! You're one of the most intelligent person I've seen on UA-cam. But I've noticed on your body language that you didn't let go not for one second of that mug in your hand. ✊🍯
Probably like a security blanket.
Just my analysis.
I over analyze things sometimes. Lol 😄
New subscriber! 👍
Thank you for the comment and the subscription 😊
Yes, that mention had been made by other observers, and I agree it's an "adapter" behavior; something performed in a time of stress in order to soothe or distract.
In my real-time life, I scowl profusely while in deep impromptu thought, which is a terribly off-putting behavior I'm trying to be more conscientious of; it's why I script my videos so I don't have to think while filming 🤣
I appreciate your engagement and observation, and welcome more! Cheers 🍻
@@t-timewithartemis4174 Thank you so very much for your response back! 🙂
I appreciate it too! 👍
Cheers! 🥂
Elliot is really hard to watch as an empathetic soul, very emotionally troubling.
6:13 I dunno, it could be that she gets emotional in this way as the question has reminded her of her body before and that upsets her, as she didn't like her body before. However, Artemis might be right, as after all Elliot had her transition very quickly - too quickly, compared to most people. There was no time for it to all sink in. Perhaps a proper decision wasn't made.
It’s hard to watch…… I feel bad for…….. Elliot ……😮😢❤ even though she may think she wants to be a real boy like Pinocchio….a girl can’t be a boy and people are gonna make their own judgement and call it like they see it….you could call yourself a unicorn 🦄 but people, rightfully so , won’t believe you and will think you’re crazy . Thanks 🙏 so much for your video, I’m subscribed.
Hey, you didn’t talk about what tea you were drinking! I feel offended.
This is a very difficult topic; it gives me conflicting feelings.
On one hand, the concept of ”judging if someone is a real trans person or not” leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. Probably because it can be used in very bad ways, I’m likely associating it with things like conversion therapy.
At the same time, mental disorder comorbidity is such an important thing to adress. With mental issues like anxiety, anorexia and depression, it’s fully normal to go ”your brain is lying to you” etc, or being able to state that a severely depressed or suicidal person does not know what is genuinely best for them. Psychologists and therapists need to be able to ”challenge what’s in your brain” for any sort of therapy to work. That’s not transphobic, it’s making a proper diagnosis to make sure the patient gets the best possible help.
As an aspie, I was not gender-conforming in my teenage years, and I kind of felt like an alien in general . As far as I know, this is very normal for aspies. Perhaps even more so for female aspies, because they often don’t get diagnosed until much later and therefore don’t know ”what’s wrong with them”. I also think that female aspies might enjoy ”typical male hobbies” more often, and that might lead to a confused identity, when it’s just about their brain being ”aspie wired”.
While I’m not a psychologist, I wouldn’t think it strange at all if these people would feel a sense of belonging when they hear about trans identity. That it could be seen as an answer to their feelings of not belonging anywhere.
I also think there’s a lot of problems with the ”surgery will fix my problems” mindset, as you’re touching on. It can absolutely help people, but it shouldn’t be used to place the responsibility for one’s mental health somewhere else. That will likely just increase feelings of helplessness and victimhood, regardless if they’re ”genuinely trans or not”.
Cheers!
Excellent input, my friend. What you were saying about the "bad taste in your mouth" is such a huge factor for so many people that I did a video addressing it- "Troubles and Considerations in Questioning and Gatekeeping the Transgender Community"- and that you were able to stomach it to hear the information is commendable and respectable!
I think you're right, too, I'm taking myself too seriously and forgetting about the detail that everyone is *really* coming to the channel for: the tea selection! 🤣 But for real, I'm sorry for missing that detail... I need to keep it together!
Always good to hear from you, talk soon I hope and I wish that all is well with you 😊
That thing about aspies, and especially female aspies, rings very true to me (dx:ed at 40 as "somewhat"). I matured quite young (no growth after 12yo), and am very short and curvy. And because of my age I only really learned about the possibility of FtM when I was around 18-20. And at that time I just draw the rational conclusion that passing would never be possible for me. Besides, I find skirts and dresses comfy (as a child I took it as a signifier of female-ness, but have later understood that it was actually more to do with sensory problems - I insisted on skating and skiing in skirts!).
I do wonder how I would navigate things if I was young now. Would the "transcommunity" appeal to me? Maybe. But maybe not.
The older I get the more I toy with trying on "masculine style brain pattern" as an alternative label for "autistic style brain pattern". It feels quite nice. (It was interesting taking a battery of psychological tests for some occupational assessment, I score smack in the middle of the male scale and out to the side of the female one.)
And the older I get, the more I start to understand why I had such a hard time with typical "girl socialising" when I was a child. The amount of brainpower I have poured into trying to decode social stuff is staggering in hindsight, if you don't have the instinct for that it is really complicated and hard work. I can imagine choosing a male role could feel like a "get out of social jail -card" to some aspiesh female teenagers.
What a painful unpleasant interview.I feel so sorry for him.
i wouldn't mis-gender Elliot. i watched this interview and i felt a bit sad and confused because i really wanted to be happy for Elliot. I wouldn't be caught dead in a dress, i don't like being in a female body - that being said I don't wish to be male - And i've had decades to ponder that.
Hi there! Thank you for engaging 🍻 You may want to check out my video "We may be approaching transgender medicine backwards...", because in there I talk about how we may be framing the question for transgender care in a way that leaves some people in the spectrum out. As in, I wasn't "trying to be male" when I transitioned; it just so happened that testosterone and a double mastectomy were good moves for me and consequently I now look like a male. I can relate to your not-liking-to-be-in-a-female-body without necessarily wanting/needing to be male 👍
I thought pronoun choice was usually based on the perceptions of the speaker rather than an inherent quality of the referent, at least until recently and in the general community in the anglosphere. Don't know about within the LGBTQ+ community.
I am happy to use people's preferred pronouns but I don't like that we're all expected to have our own set of pronouns now. I usually want to say 'use whatever pronouns feels natural for you when referring to me' but there's no space for that on forms.
Sometimes i say 'any' which probably leads people to think I identify as nonbinany. I don't feel truthful saying that she/her are "my pronouns" (i'm female) because the pronouns people use when talking about me don't belong to me. I don't own their speech. And it feels like being coerced to participate in controlling behaviour.
I feel like this is somewhere where the trans community might be shooting themselves in the foot (or trans activists might be making thnings worse for regular trans people). Personally, I was fine and accepting of "preferred pronouns" but now we're not allowed to say "preferred" anymore (I think that framing is regarded as transphobic?), we have to say "he uses he/him pronouns" or "Elliott's pronouns are he/him". I do see a lot of people just going along with it though, apparently happily, so my intensity of feeling about it is also probably a me thing.
This happens on the gender critical side too. There are extremists who police mis-sexing rather than mis-gendering.
Thank you for your well-thought comment! I agree with your reasoning on compelled speech, and also that the radical voices of the LGBTQ "community" are causing social backlash. I did a video about the history and implication of pronoun usage- at least, here in the United States- called "To (S)he or not to (S)he"", and myself learned that in other parts of the world they can be viewed quite differently.
I'm musing on another video currently about the psychological underpinning of this "multiple pronoun option" movement here, which I find gets at the heart of the issue (short version: lack of boundary between "self" and "feelings").
Thank you again for taking the time to watch the video and leave such a quality comment; I hope to hear more from you in the future! Cheers 🍻
I completely agree with you. Well spoken. You're very intelligent.
Thank you for making this video. I just have been doing research about trans and female to male transitioning as my ex was born female, and is now transitioning in the male and I had to break up with her because I was not comfortable with it after they came out to me after a long time of dating them as a female, and it just wasn’t for me, but now I understand to get more I feel like they’re are making the wrong decision and acting of emotions and influence rather than a personal decision and they are 19 and I feel like that is too young to transition. Either way I understand and get more from people who are trans and that there are people who can make mistakes in transitioning and regret it is more understanding now.
You're welcome, my friend. That age can be a very vulnerable one to this ideology ("transgenerism"), because at 18 in the United States one can pursue medical treatment, yet our brains are not fully developed until around 25 years. The pre-frontal cortex- the portion responsible for reasoning/logic/risk assessment- is the last piece to mature. By this point, people who pursue transgender medicalization can be irreversibly changed.
While I do believe there are people out there who benefit from cross-sex hormones and certain types of transsexual surgeries, the fact is that many in this current era who try them will later regret it. Worse, in the United States there is a general "affirmation only" model amongst licensed therapists- meaning, if you say you are, then you are, they will not question you. So, therapy is not doing the gatekeeping that it originally was meant to do.
I am sorry that you've had to experience this loss, though I hope for your sake and hers that it turns out alright.
Thank you for the response yea I’m 24 and I have a ton of tattoos but some I regret none I hate but I definitely would have waited same I tired to tell him with transitioning I think you should wait till your in your mid 20s to transition cuz you know yourself better, there’s a good amount of people who de transition or who regret it and are not happy a lot of people suffer from gender dismopria and depression but transitioning isn’t really the way to solve it cuz in the end she was depressed and still is depressed she dropped out of school quit her job doesn’t drive or have a license I don’t think she’s in the right mindset to be trans and she’s just mis identifying herself but idk it’s not my desicion sadly her parents and therapist support her
@@t-timewithartemis4174 and thank you I don’t have anything against trans people or the idea of it but just like a tattoo I think people should think about it long and hard and understand the implications of the surgery and the way it will affect thier life cuz it is permanent and life changing and I don’t think a lot of trans people including Elliot page realize the impact it has on your life to no longer have your breast and stuff I couldn’t imagine going through that mentally changing myself but
I do not agree with your assessment of Elliot. His transition was still quite recent at the time of this interview and he has gone through a lot. He says he went through a difficult time, never feeling comfortable in his own being and memories of those difficult times may still be effecting him. I hope he continues to recover and heal through the process.
Skills from my nearly useless bachelor's degree! If I borrow that please...
Fantastic analysis!
My dear friends, what our mouths don’t speak, our body’s will reflect it in actions.
i'm confused about elliot... so he came out as a lesbian before, then he decided he's trans. so now he's a man, yet he was married to a woman. so he's straight?
If you ask me, sexuality is based on genitals, because that's what the definition of sex is, as it relates to physical expression. If one is a female sexually attracted to females, then that is designated as a lesbian. Therefore, since it's impossible to change sex, Elliot will always be a female so being attracted to females means she is a lesbian. Gender identity or adoption of expression of a sex does not change your sexuality (or sex) designation. I hope that makes sense.
3:06 Wow. An actor having a cinematic moment. Shocker.