Plan Z - Our Ongoing Saga To Build A Slightly Less Slow Slant Six Gets Some Results
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- The first steps in any project consist of identifying and repairing problems and malfunctions. With those bugs out of the way, it's time to refine and fine tune the elements that make power.
The ignition issues and fixes we discovered after the cars last outing made a huge overall difference in the cars performance, and now that it runs cleanly we can start to hone in on the areas we need to massage for power.
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I think the converter is absorbing the power of the six to a degree. The engine sounds a lot better and is very smooth now. Also the 2-3 shift is really lazy. I know you want to keep weight down, but I think the absence of a trunk floor might be slowly it down at the higher speeds. Maybe an abs sheet or thin aluminum belly pan under the front and the trunk would decrease the drag significantly.
Thanks for sharing Plan Z with us Tony!
I was thinking that myself, that big hole in the trunk can't be speeding the car up.
I was thinking this too. Maybe some speed holes in between the taillights to reduce some of the drag. Possibly just talking out of my rear..however just a thought
And don’t kid yourself sub 10 in a six is moving on
I love this Enzo quote... Aerodynamics is for those who can't build engines.
aaah.... why am I still laughing?
@@dennis-nz5im You got to be kidding me
Maybe you should try adding racing stripes.
Chrome oil cap will cut a fraction off your E.T. Mothballs in gas gives more gains.
Stripes, and put it back completely stock it would be way faster .
This is just awesome content. No drama, just pure 100% hot rodding. And this is the point where a lot of low budget folks give up. Thanks for everything you all do!
Advance the cam 4 degrees, tighten up the lash hot to a tight .020 on the exhaust and put 20 inch long 2" to 3" trumpets on each header outlet.
If it was easy. Everyone would be doing it. Hats off to you Tony!
Love what you're doing Tony, I didn't care for the six cylinder back in the '60s when I was a teen, but love them now...
Back then we would scrap them.
@@gulfy09 Everybody did until the gas crisis 😂
They're cool, I've had 3 or 4, but there's nothing sexy about how they sound. That's for sure.
These stock slant sixes used to eat my lunch in my 57 Chevy in High school in the mid 60s. They’re really fast off the line. 👍
The stock cams seem like they did better off the line than your high lift and duration cam.
I'm a world away in South Africa and started watching your videos after looking for information on distributors. The slant is my favorite since I'm working with a "slant 4" engine found in a Peugeot 404/504. Thanks for the videos Uncle Tony, it is great for someone like me starting out on old school tech.
Good luck with your project and greetings from Colorado...
Those Peugeots are great!
It definitely sounds better than the last time
Agreed! Thats the first thing I thought when he fired it up on the trailer.
I think that the torque curve is at lower rpm than the converter. So there's converter slip when the engine makes torque and then at high rpm power falls away.
Greetings from the UK, the raceway has taken me back 40 odd years to my childhood. I can remember summer nights watching banger racing with the scent of fried onions in the air .The onions were mixed with petrol,oil and rubber as hot engines were cooling down after running on an oval track. I still have vivid memories of seeing repairs between races. Twisted hulks were chained to H iron posts or a lorry and then backed up to pull body work from around the axles and engine!The car of choice was the A55 Austin Cambridge or Morris Oxford.
She sounds pretty happy, yeah, maybe she wants more to eat, a little more lift ? Is that a 3310 you're running ? I'm sure you covered all the bases, but, as we know, it's a learning process with each particular engine...ya got to get to know her. Season recently opened here at Lebenon Valley, so frequenting the track as much as possible. Need to support your local track !!!
Go Uncle Tony Go. I can't wait to see the end result. I know you will get there, hopefully sooner than later. Great video series.
Remove the link that opens the secondaries and run it as a 2 bbl. It should run 9s without the secondaries. This will let you troubleshoot the launch. Once you get the car running properly on the primaries then put the secondary link back in and tune the carb until the engine runs as it should.
Ran it as a 2 barrel last year with a vacuum secondary Holley. Absolutely no difference in the 60
That was very thoughtful of him to wait until after the time slip to water the path down
That old Dodge tow truck is cool!😎
This is the real deal. Tuning a car in is work. The TV mags don't show the real work. This stuff makes you or breaks you I love it.
I know next to nothing about cars, and less about running races, but this is soooo godamn interesting!
Can’t wait to see what’s next.
“It’s HOW you go fast !!!”””
That Camaro against the Ranger is bad ass
This is true Hot Rodding. Not a money race. My hat is off to you Tony. Most guys cant do what you have done with a car like this. Wake up you guys this is what it is about.
Your converter might be too aggressive on the stall. I suggest experimenting with lower stalls
I just enjoy watching the thing go down the track...
Sad news in the UA-cam automotive family. Every mechanic's nightmare.
Halfass Kustoms had a fire and Brents shop burned to the ground. He lost everything in the shop, tools, rare parts and the projects he was working on.
Brent and Esther can use all the help we can give them to get Halfass Kustoms back up and running.
Brent posted a video and there is information there.
You might be on the right track of thoughts... have you ever considered hooking up a cheap vacuum gauge to the intake manifold temporarily?
I want to see What it does down low, then in the power band, and finally as it starts to fall on its face again. Might give better insight with minimal effort on your part. Or at least help check some things off the mental checklist.
Progress not perfection!! It looked pretty solid... now you can get things dialed in now that you have a good baseline..
love this project and update series on this slant 6. People always wanna run to an 8 or ls swap, or blah blah... i like to see these inlines be run to max efficiency with all the tricks in the book. Its just more oddball and different. im working on a chevy 250 in a 74 firebird now, so this channel is inspiration. 💪 fellow tennessean.
I started swapping the cam in my SB Chevy. Pulled the cam, dig deeper, find mushroom valve. pull heads, take em to the machine shop. Both are cracked. Now I get to rebuild an old set of 441s.
Put a 3500 rpm stall in and ditch the 4500rpm so u can actually use the tranny. ur motor is not in the converters power band but for a second or two at the top of first gear. ur slipping the converter therefore losing speed because like u said the motor doesn't have the power so try a lower stall and use the torque available. very cool build i love it good luck
Now this makes more sense than all the others to me
torque converter work can lead quickly to blind alleys.
so I tend to shy away from giving advice on that.
Gotta state that I thought the converter is a 4k unit.
If it is, that is where I'd run till I got the engine kicking hard.
@@victormiranda9163 I really think the stall is too high even if it is a 4k, Id lower it to maybe even a 3k, sure UTG has a cam and more comp and says it 'can' rev to 6k but I highly doubt its making peak power past 4500rpm. its still a little worked over slant were talking about. I bet after 4500rpm shes falling like a rock on power thus slipping the converter and not grabbing. I absolutely love the car and the idea I hope he gets her figured out
@@kevinschmidt9295 I like your comment.
We very much agree a slant is gunna fall flat Just after 6k.
The usual thinking in drag racing is that you want your converter
to stall at just shy of peak power. That way you are using all available power
until the machine gets up to the matching speed. (consider shifting then...)
You will be using peak power during the entire launch.
Heat into the tranny is the only downside.
after all, that heat is lost HP.
Gilles Villeneuve was well known for amazing launches
and burning out clutches.
@@kevinschmidt9295 we have built plenty i6s like slants and chevys 250s/292
Theres no way that combo is making power past 5500rpm, peak power is probably around there if not at 5000, that cam doesnt sound too radical for 6k+ slant
Love the whole Rig Tony,,that old tow truck looks super cool pulling that Dart!!!! Mopar Salute from Ohio
With you tony on valve timing , don’t think you have back pressure or scavenging issues , doesn’t seem to be making any torque.
Love the dashcam. Wish we could figure out a way to improvise a dyno that you and the rest of us could use
Keep this project going, man. It's a fun challenge for sure.
The process of building and figuring out how to make car run faster is interesting. Like detective work so to speak. Been fun watching the process.
Uncle Tony. PlanZ is the reason I started watching your channel. The wealth of knowlwdge is why I keep watching. I don't think your critics really know who you are and what you've done. Keep up the good work
that old dog pulled like a mother effer off the line and when it hit second gear i was waiting to see light under lf tire and still pulled hard into drive keep.up the good work uncle tony
There is something special about a stripped down car with holes drilled everywhere.
I love this...just nipping away at things to see what if any, results come about. Old school! Just good old educated trial and error!! 1/2 second is moving forward so looking forward to see what comes..
The best feeling is making the impossible possible when people says you cant do it showem that it can be done keep at it uncle tony😊
Hi Tony your having fun thats all that matters
YAY! you remembered to turn on the GoPro inside... Congrats Tony! What is the method you are using to determine what this combination should run? Have you had a 6 go quicker than this one? Did you degree and verify the actual lift at the valves after break-in? Remind me why not a standard transmission?
I better stick to watching and learning love the content your sharing of specific issues and the explanation of working thru them are great. Can't wait till you reach your goal and see how it happens.
LEGENDARY KNOWLEDGE. I TRULY LOVE THIS CHANNEL. THANK YOU UTG!!
Thank you Tony and crew for bringing back Hot rodding.
I think you need to turn your carb so that the flow is in the same direction as the intake manifold.
Put in a cam . RV type cam or towing cam will give you the tork beans .
15"" extension on exhaust will help
You are a genius and I got so much respect for you keep up the good work. I know you've been around for awhile me to just turned 59 years old and I got all kind of toys but I'm playing around with scooters and having fun and it doesn't cost a lot of money
If you listen to the shifting, the sound is as if the transmission is slipping, it doesn't seem to recover well between shifts. Perhaps keep in mind the stall speed may be too high. This is not criticism it is just an observation.
No, it's currently got the stock valvebody in the trans.
Would it be worth prioritizing the gear swap? Maybe that'll make those six little pistons happier
i love the snarl of plan z you know its small but like a little dog thatll chew your ankle off
Not a racer so I will not step into the rkng to give advice to someone with the depth of knowledge you have. I have dabbled with truck pulling and making power from small engines though, so I do understand the flat feeling. Had it happen on a lawnmower that cranked to 6000. You could feel it pull hard then just drop off lkke you hit a wall. Anyway, I love the content and am learning a lot about chrysler engines. Keep at it because I would love to see this project fly.
Put a stock torque converter back in it. It won't spin the tires after the rubber gets hot with the converter that's in it right now.
The comments of people telling you what to do, are people who don't understand what you're doing.
Or they have decades of racing experience and truly want to see the car go faster.
Except the people still recommending a v8 they aren’t paying attention to the build! 🤦🏻♂️
No they've all got the fastest slant 6 in the world and everyone else doesn't know anything.
Or maybe they actually know what they are talking about, unlike Tony. He is a joke. If you are stupid enough to listen to this big mouth jerk you deserve the results. He is an average at best mechanic that can do basic repairs and builds. Sometimes. He has been proven wrong over and over and over again. Anyone that actually knows anything about motors and cars rolls their eyes when someone mentions his name. Dudes a straight up poser!
or choose not 2 understand this
Thanks heaps for your ingenuity, and explanation as to how your improving your times, thanks for sharing, all the best to yous and your loved ones
At first I thought the transmission was slipping. Right after the shift swore I heard the rpm rise and fall.
Progress is progress~
Sounds to me like it's running up beyond the power band the entire way down the track. Something is stopping it from running at high RPM. Bring the rpm down with a tighter converter? Change cams to one designed for a higher RPM? I think the reason it slowed down from earlier passes is that the converter broke in a little and is slipping more than it did before. I think it's just barely tipping over the edge.
I was thoroughly impressed that a slant six could do such a good burnout.
After watching the whole video, I think your coming onto the cam at 4,000rpm and by 4,500 you're running out of flow. Those slant six ports and manifold were never meant to flow what you're asking of them.
Three part suggestion. 1) add wideband A/F ratio gauge (even good plugs can be hiding a bad RPM range) 2) add vacuum gauge, air flow blockage can show up in vacuum for example if exhaust is too restrictive, then will show higher than expected vacuum 3) camera to capture wideband and vacuum reading thru the RPM range. While you are most likely on top of this, also check for anything usually in the valve train, what you're describing does not really sound like valve float but maybe a flat lobe? Interesting series, looking forward to your progress.
Wideband is a good idea, they're pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things.
Flat lobe ? What the hell is that ??
@@timrayburn2461 sometimes, one or more of the camshaft lobes gets ground down to have less lift and maybe even affect duration. Flat tapped Chinese lifters have developed a reputation for causing premature ware on the lobes and they go flat. I'm just being an arm chair quarterback on UT's problems but I have had first hand experienced with these type of issues before.
That's gotta be at least 2 pounds.
I recommend a ham sandwich, and do no thinking till tomorrow. That should eat him alive - be up at the crack of dawn and heading for the garage with or without coffee...
It was good to meet you out there Tony, I had the other Ford Ranger. Love the Dart
I could hear it during your run that it needs gear, but you are right about cam too, that could help shorttrack. try lighter valves better springs too, will get your RPM to your powerband quicker. can you add a trans brake to that trans?
If it's not a vacuum secondary holley try doing the progressive secondary linkage so the secondaries move with the primaries
UTG put 6 webers on it. Trust me you will pickup everywhere or put a mpi injection.
Needs a converter in it and change the camshaft you have a little bit more rpm on top in what makes power just an opinion
I love the slant 6 I hope you get it or run a good number it would be awesome 👏
Turn the carb around 90 degrees and then experiement with the primarys in or out ( 180 it) The issue there is which way the throttle blades open. ( try an open spacer)
A slant six motorcycle would be wonderful.
The BMW K-100 has a 4 cylinder inline engine sitting on its side..
Need to Turn carb 90°, Primaries on Outside to fix Distribution issues & Eliminate stumble !!
For what it's worth. That things cookin!... 572 wedge lives!
No real life knowledge here but watching all UT recommended channels wondering when you showed last week fat and changed plugs. Seen some videos where DV drilled dimples in intake and one of his recommendations actually added material inside intake to help atomize fuel. Feel stupid even giving my thoughts but been on my mind for my anticipated build.
It's great your teaching people step by step method of finding a vehicles sweet spot.
The Converter is Absorbing 1/2 his Flywheel hp !!
Agreed. I believe that too. It's making power where the converter isn't working. That bit he's feeling is the converter starting to grab and then power goes away because it's not make power up that rpm. The powerband is lower than that converter
In short too much converter for that combination. Change the converter or the cam and shift it higher rpm it will go much faster.
Love that buzzin half dozen. Keep up the good work
Thank you thank you thank you for putting us in the car really enjoyed the ride it's the fun we're having watching you do this this is how we did things at the car lot years ago thanks for keeping all of this alive
"Doesn't make any power, but its smooth". LMFAO! This is everything you need to know about Tony!
From my keyboard it seems like the converter is the problem. That's gonna be diagnosis. Guess time will tell.
Lots of comments about the torque converter Just a reminder Tony was going to use much deeper gears but could not get them I would imagine a gear change is in the future and that converter might be perfect at that point
Anthony ..You’ve mentioned that the track has a little uphill to it . I think if you ran in the opposite direction you would improve your time ?😎
I'd try a carb spacers to might give the air more room to turn in to the intake
The idle sound is nice!
Green light comes on, I take a zip on my soda then the car leaves! Shifting takes for ever, sound almost like it's slipping. My unprepped Th200 in my 1980 Olds diesel shifts 5 times faster and no slip! You have some work cut out for you for sure!
He is hanging back at the tree so the camera can better pick up sounds / movements, without the other cars interference, for later evaluation.
I was digging the swiss cheese lightening treatment, then I saw the trunk floor, or lack thereof! Love it man.
I had a leaning tower of power, in a 86 ram, I used as a burnout truck. Beat it to death, but I wouldn't quit, 5 or 6 minute long burnouts, coolant falling out of it, oil of questionable maintainence. Shred until it hot seized, let cool off and drive it back on the trailer. The Ole girl went to the crusher in the sky still running, she chucked a driveshaft and destroyed the trans, cab, and everything in the proximity
I forgot to mention, I ran a 20lb bottle of spray with a 30 shot dry kit on it, the whole time
My son's 225 he built with dual webbers, headers, comp cam is numb down low, starts to make its power at 3k, but is all done pulling at 4500. He has 151 hp at the wheels on a dyno. You can hear the power come in, whole sound of the engine changes.
Uncle Tony doing a burn out with a cig hanging out of his mouth! 😂
Glad you’re taking these cars out.
So in my daily driver that I've done cam, 40 over and decked 100, I have the same issue with it doesn't like going from idle to main. It is a slant with a 600 double pumper on it. Bigger nozzle, more aggressive accelerator cam, quicker power valve and it still has a slight hesitation; can actually stall it if you stab it in neutral. You can watch the accelerator pump stop spraying before the booster picks up and starts working. Sometimes it doesn't catch. Does the same on the secondary. The fix was a smaller carb. I've not done any head work beyond a valve job; gonna play with another cylinder head and see what I can do. But as of right now, a 390 double pumper has fixed my problems.
Good stuff! I think you are on the right path of cam timing and rocker adjustment. From watching the video, the transmission seems to shift slow and soft - no good firm shifting. My opinion as far as power is that it is only going to make power to 4800 or so. I also think the carb is not right for the engine - rob the MI 318 2bbl 🤣 I hope this is helpful from my armchair viewing
I was only kidding about the 265...you would never find one over there - although Kiwi could probably find you one in Un Zud.
Yeah .... Good Luck finding a cam. The biggest issue is no one is grinding the blanks for a /6. The best cam for the 6 came from REED cams in GA. I had one and I gave it away. It was put in a /6 in a 71 4 door Valiant (I gave the body away too.) It had Clifford intake, 650 holley and a little mill work to the block and heads and that REED cam. 28-9 15 slicks , a 904 trans and 4.10 8.75. It ran 14.10 in a complete car, all interior except seats. It was quicker than the turbo charged cars that was running at those /6 events they used to have.
This is the car that got me started watching the channel. Love the whole idea of it and have used some of the principals in things ive built.
Uncle Tony you need to get an expert to look at it at DD's Speed Shop
Engine sounds good for a slant six.
I periodically check in hoping to hear or see that Blue dual quad Roadrunner!
I ran a 300 stright 6 in my falcon , ran 12.90s
FREAKIN NICE, SIR, DAMN NICE.
The first run sounded like the transmission was sloppy on the shifts 😬 but the second run sounded better. Maybe you should spec a converter for your setup to get the most out of it. I dropped down from a 4500 to a 3800 and picked up a half. That’s why they call it test and tune 😂😂 stay on it I want to see it run a mid eight 😎
Utg ...love the channel and love this car ...but cant belive you sold it !!! I know the rust issues you had ...but was hoping to see more of it on your channel
Real fun Vid Unka Tony. This time it seems like you got off the converter and into the engine power.
The stock slants I ran power peak seemed at 4,500 RPM I wanted enough gears to stay there.
Engines use more power to spin faster so I think a stock slant will go to 6,500 and quit.
Parasitic loss may be worth further exploring, I was told two quarts low will get more power.
I was NEVER willing to try that. (on purpose...)
Ya do what you know, so I'd explore spark timing first.
Am pretty sure valve timing could move the power peak to 5k
Cam work is a study in what price glory.
I recall driving Mothers 225 leaning tower of power and being less than impressed with said powerhouse, grin. Your project really gets my attention and I wish you good luck..
The Converter & Auto is sucklin all the Power & besides, .....there's a Banana in yo Tailpipe !
UT....I think I'm enjoying this a lot more than you. This story I'm going to really keep a close eye on (even though I watch nearly all your videos anyway). Really fascinated to see how each small change affects the car. THANK YOU!
Sounds like it wants more stall speed.
Also, I guess traction isn't your greatest challenge with this combo...but your limited slip ain't so limited. Maybe throw a clutch pack at it if traction ever does become an issue.
Im no pro but my ears are telling me exactly what you mean you can hear when it starts to get really happy
You are a genius and it's awesome you're running a six-cylinder I love the six-cylinder you're so different like me keep up the good work Steve from