Hey there, this is a very nice guide! Even as a longtime Jin player I found it useful! There’s one thing that you forgot to (or decided not to) mention: Jin can use his throws with ZEN 2+3 or cancel ZEN into u/f+1+2 throw. This can be very helpful after b,f+2,3 on block, considering that now it’s +2 if you transition to ZEN I hope that I didn’t forget anything and I hope this helps someone!
i am pleasantly surprised to see a JIN guide from you, mamie!! and no AI voice either which i am so used to… your real voice is also a pleasant surprise!! what a treat to listen to! amazing job on your videos as always!
Jin's zen 4 can actually get countered by strong parries (like reina's b2+4) on reaction, in reina's case you get HW 1,4 (or HW 1,sen3). It's good if you're still gathering info on the jin player and don't want to commit to a big option
Characters with fast recovering df1 will option select most stance transitions on block as they can duck in time before PC and interrupt all other buttons or if they are sharp break the 2 grab on counterhit too
Additional Notes: B3+4 CDS (Crouching Demon Stance): high-crushes and allows stance follow-ups at frame 5. F3+4 Zenshin: high-crushes and allows stance follow-ups at frame 10. The listed frame data for ~zen transitions is only applicable to moves from ZEN (ZEN1, ZEN3 etc), NOT the DF crouch-dash transition's entry. The DF transition occurs later and its frame data is unavailable as of now. A prime example of this would be F4~zen and BF23~zen, which are both -1 oB in Tekken 7. F4~zen can be transitioned into CDC block fast enough to beat crouch jab, but not BF23~zen. --- F4~zen --- Extremely linear, sluggish recovery and inferior to the non-zen version because the counter-hit conversion is piss-easy in T8 and your opponent can option select every single follow-up oB with an i13 DF1. Not to mention raw F4's innate pushback oB into range 2-3 control with EWHF and FF2. --- B3~zen --- Excellent tracking and realignment with a beefy +9 on hit. Exceptional at the wall since B3, 2 wall crushes for +21 guard frames on hit and you can zen cancel into whatever. The block situation is a bit more iffy than F4~zen, but manageable. OS possible oB with a DF1 mid check to beat Zen 2 armour move etc. --- BF2, 3~zen --- Not a natural-hit combo and the second hit is pretty linear with zero realignment. On block, Jin can catch DF1 checks with ZENU1 or a counter-hit ZEN2+3 throw. Regardless, your opponent can just still and wait for red eyes CD4, 2 (hellsweep) / DB4 (stature kick) / UF1+2 (command throw) -- all three being reactable if you're anticipating them. Sure, one can red eyes EWHF or ZEN3+4 to continue the pressure, but one hard read and you're toast. --- 2, 4~zen --- Near-death on block and still exploitable on hit because of the aforementioned BF2, 3~zen option select, even with the +14 ... unless you zen cancel. --- F3, 3~zen --- The backstep (~sen) variant is preferable since it leaves you around range 2, but it might not cause your opponent's WS punish to whiff if they duck the second hit because of Crouch Level 1.5's black magic. F3, 3~zen's plus situation on hit is the same as B3~zen (+9). Still, it's much better to hit-confirm F3, 1 heat engager instead because that can potentially end the round right there and then ... not to mention F3, 3~zen being -7 oB -- at least you can ZEN2 and armour through your opponent's i15 mid launcher since armour moves take 8 frames to activate. --- WS1, 2~zen --- Utterly useless outside of floor-break / kazek setup redux. Death on block and you can only ZEN1 or red eyes WS4 / EWHF on hit. Outclassed as an i13 WS punish by the 6-hit redux string. --- 3, 1~zen --- Highly exploitable in high level since the second hit is a high, but +4 oB guarantees ZEN2+3 (another high...) as a frame trap, so there's that.
Great work!!! No bullshit or obnoxious filler. U+1 does not make you invincible. It does low crush, but it might have some evasive properties. You can definitely get jabbed out of it. A lot of times the zen stance itself is what helps make it feel more evasive.
One quick think about defense vs on block transitions is that most characters df1 and other Quick mids can actually recover quick enough to beat everything and still have time to duck zen 2
Zen 1+2 also staggers at wall if it lands, and out of bf2,3 Zen entry it's pretty hard to see, making it more viable if done on hit, speaking from personal experience WS 1,2 Zen entry isn't that advantageous because it's a delayable mid mid string that forces a hard knockdown on airborne opponents in addition to being a stance transition. Outside of its usage of acting as a fast safe delayable mid poke out of crouch (stupid good for testing your opponent after a d2), it's primarily used for backturned combo ender okizeme setups, which is where the ability to enter stance shines, due to the opponent waking up backwards limiting their options significantly. The Kazek setup is a prime example of this. Finally it's extremely important to mention that the stance entry into Breaking Step is NOT a crouchdash. You are standing the entire time, and there is significant delay before you can input a forward or backdash out of it. HOWEVER, you can duck or guard shortly after entering breaking step by simply holding back or down back. This is why the stance entry to Breaking Step from Hellfire Trespass Slayer is entirely safe from Rage Arts if you just guard immediately, but you can still be hit by Yoshimtsu's Flash either way.
The A.I. was louder. Idk if it’s the audio mix or how u speak into the mic with your real voice but I can’t hear certain words you’re saying. I’m sure an increase in audio mix should fix this. Luckily CC is available to take in all these tips & anti Jin advice. 👍
Armor becomes active on the 7th frame? hmmm.....now i might be wrong about this but i thought armor becomes active on 8th frame....Some speacial powercrushes begin on 7th like kings Db1+2.....sadly not at home to lab test it :/ If you allready have covered this topic or got an source for this then it would be deeply appreciated ^^
b3 is a crime of a move on Jin. If i would play him that's a move i would abuse. It is a fast mid that cant be parried and hardly stepped. It has a followup that can't be challenged and even on block you can't option select Jins stance BS. Even if you clip him and your option do not get evaded it will often result in floats that you cant convert into big damage. All that on a character that has not a single flaw and no issue in controlling the neutral with ff2. I absolutely hate fighting this character!
This video proves that Jin takes some skill and is not braindead, he has to work for his damage. I've always liked the idea of applying ZEN stance and it's mixups were trash before changes they given him now, plus I like how it's even harder to use because you have to be frame perfect on the cancel to make it safe and apply the mental stack. He's way more fun now.
You picked the worst character as an example on how to anti-ZEN, as Kazuya doesn't get to have a standard i13 df1 mid check. Every single move from Jin's ZEN will be negated and killed by a standard df1 check and if a bad Jin player tries chimpanzee ZEN2 he will armor the df1, you will recover in time to duck and annihilate him for daring to try chimpanzee ZEN2. The only exception is *bf2,3~ZEN* as Jin is +2 on block so a kamikaze ZEN u1 can kill the universal anti-ZEN df1 check, so there are layered nuances there. Kazuya is a special case where his absolute best option is his f2 power crush against chimpanzee Jin players. It will lose to ZEN Cancel and the Shun Rendan throw. (Throws cannot be broken when countering power crushes) But Kazuya f2 will beat every other option and Tornado Jin if he jumps with any jumping move from ZEN. Only the absolute best Jin players on the planet can/will consistently frame-perfect ZEN Cancel. It is the most advanced technique in Tekken 8.
![[KOF MUGEN] D. Iori Element Release!!!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xM5hThLfx0M/mqdefault.jpg)
Hearing your voice is actually crazy to me, I am too used to the AI voice, but you actually have a really nice voice!!
Real voice. Already better. Already a killer video editor and glad to see you're stepping out of your comfort zone.
Hey there, this is a very nice guide! Even as a longtime Jin player I found it useful!
There’s one thing that you forgot to (or decided not to) mention: Jin can use his throws with ZEN 2+3 or cancel ZEN into u/f+1+2 throw. This can be very helpful after b,f+2,3 on block, considering that now it’s +2 if you transition to ZEN
I hope that I didn’t forget anything and I hope this helps someone!
🙏🏽
It's the 2 break throw that no one breaks for some reason lol
How do you cancel the ZEN into u/f1+2
@@ilidot5892 You do zen, then df to go into breaking step, then quickly do ub to cancel to standing and then do uf1+2
You have to cancel it into crouchdash (or breaking step) with d/f first, then press u/f+1+2
i am pleasantly surprised to see a JIN guide from you, mamie!! and no AI voice either which i am so used to… your real voice is also a pleasant surprise!! what a treat to listen to!
amazing job on your videos as always!
You forgot about his 2+3 throw, its a good option to beat power crush.
On a similar note almost no breaks his 1+2 throw built into Breaking Step
do u mean df 2+3 ?
As a Jin main that also plays Reina, I need more of these. Thanks man.
Dude, this voice is so much better than the AI one. So smooth.
As a Jin player thanks love the guides by the way ❤
Jin's zen 4 can actually get countered by strong parries (like reina's b2+4) on reaction, in reina's case you get HW 1,4 (or HW 1,sen3). It's good if you're still gathering info on the jin player and don't want to commit to a big option
Characters with fast recovering df1 will option select most stance transitions on block as they can duck in time before PC and interrupt all other buttons or if they are sharp break the 2 grab on counterhit too
Additional Notes:
B3+4 CDS (Crouching Demon Stance): high-crushes and allows stance follow-ups at frame 5.
F3+4 Zenshin: high-crushes and allows stance follow-ups at frame 10.
The listed frame data for ~zen transitions is only applicable to moves from ZEN (ZEN1, ZEN3 etc), NOT the DF crouch-dash transition's entry. The DF transition occurs later and its frame data is unavailable as of now.
A prime example of this would be F4~zen and BF23~zen, which are both -1 oB in Tekken 7. F4~zen can be transitioned into CDC block fast enough to beat crouch jab, but not BF23~zen.
---
F4~zen
---
Extremely linear, sluggish recovery and inferior to the non-zen version because the counter-hit conversion is piss-easy in T8 and your opponent can option select every single follow-up oB with an i13 DF1. Not to mention raw F4's innate pushback oB into range 2-3 control with EWHF and FF2.
---
B3~zen
---
Excellent tracking and realignment with a beefy +9 on hit. Exceptional at the wall since B3, 2 wall crushes for +21 guard frames on hit and you can zen cancel into whatever. The block situation is a bit more iffy than F4~zen, but manageable. OS possible oB with a DF1 mid check to beat Zen 2 armour move etc.
---
BF2, 3~zen
---
Not a natural-hit combo and the second hit is pretty linear with zero realignment. On block, Jin can catch DF1 checks with ZENU1 or a counter-hit ZEN2+3 throw. Regardless, your opponent can just still and wait for red eyes CD4, 2 (hellsweep) / DB4 (stature kick) / UF1+2 (command throw) -- all three being reactable if you're anticipating them. Sure, one can red eyes EWHF or ZEN3+4 to continue the pressure, but one hard read and you're toast.
---
2, 4~zen
---
Near-death on block and still exploitable on hit because of the aforementioned BF2, 3~zen option select, even with the +14 ... unless you zen cancel.
---
F3, 3~zen
---
The backstep (~sen) variant is preferable since it leaves you around range 2, but it might not cause your opponent's WS punish to whiff if they duck the second hit because of Crouch Level 1.5's black magic.
F3, 3~zen's plus situation on hit is the same as B3~zen (+9). Still, it's much better to hit-confirm F3, 1 heat engager instead because that can potentially end the round right there and then ... not to mention F3, 3~zen being -7 oB -- at least you can ZEN2 and armour through your opponent's i15 mid launcher since armour moves take 8 frames to activate.
---
WS1, 2~zen
---
Utterly useless outside of floor-break / kazek setup redux. Death on block and you can only ZEN1 or red eyes WS4 / EWHF on hit. Outclassed as an i13 WS punish by the 6-hit redux string.
---
3, 1~zen
---
Highly exploitable in high level since the second hit is a high, but +4 oB guarantees ZEN2+3 (another high...) as a frame trap, so there's that.
This a damn good guide explaining Zen and Zan stance!
Great work!!! No bullshit or obnoxious filler. U+1 does not make you invincible. It does low crush, but it might have some evasive properties. You can definitely get jabbed out of it. A lot of times the zen stance itself is what helps make it feel more evasive.
Thumbnail didn't need to go that hard
Very helpful i hope you continue the jin guide videos
more jin guides please! i love your style of videos
Holy shit, it’s a human voice! Ok but jokes aside, you narrating the videos is a great change of pace, I much prefer this to the AI narration 💯
Thanks! Saved me some labbing time 🙏
One quick think about defense vs on block transitions is that most characters df1 and other
Quick mids can actually recover quick enough to beat everything and still have time to duck zen 2
Your voice is so much better than the AI
So great to hear your voice :)
More Jin stuff please
Zen 1+2 also staggers at wall if it lands, and out of bf2,3 Zen entry it's pretty hard to see, making it more viable if done on hit, speaking from personal experience
WS 1,2 Zen entry isn't that advantageous because it's a delayable mid mid string that forces a hard knockdown on airborne opponents in addition to being a stance transition. Outside of its usage of acting as a fast safe delayable mid poke out of crouch (stupid good for testing your opponent after a d2), it's primarily used for backturned combo ender okizeme setups, which is where the ability to enter stance shines, due to the opponent waking up backwards limiting their options significantly. The Kazek setup is a prime example of this.
Finally it's extremely important to mention that the stance entry into Breaking Step is NOT a crouchdash. You are standing the entire time, and there is significant delay before you can input a forward or backdash out of it. HOWEVER, you can duck or guard shortly after entering breaking step by simply holding back or down back. This is why the stance entry to Breaking Step from Hellfire Trespass Slayer is entirely safe from Rage Arts if you just guard immediately, but you can still be hit by Yoshimtsu's Flash either way.
keep em coming sensei
Great video!!
The A.I. was louder. Idk if it’s the audio mix or how u speak into the mic with your real voice but I can’t hear certain words you’re saying. I’m sure an increase in audio mix should fix this. Luckily CC is available to take in all these tips & anti Jin advice. 👍
ur my goat brother
thank you so much
Everything from zen can be beaten be a df1 and duck. Though it depends on the df1 recovery. All standard df1 have good recovery though
Based real voice lets go!
Thanks
You did it at @3:54
Honestly preferred the AI voice or whatever it was before but the contents still solid so no complaints
How are you doing the thrusting uppercut after they are on the ground I can’t get it
🔥🔥🔥
Anyone have like a recommendation for a Speedkicks Law drill type thing for Jin?
I will make one soon 🙏
can you do the same video for hwoa boy
you can use zen 1 to check your opponent
5:51
“Nah I’d Z~F2+3”
LMAOO BRO ZEN 2 HAS EVERYTHING
Armor becomes active on the 7th frame? hmmm.....now i might be wrong about this but i thought armor becomes active on 8th frame....Some speacial powercrushes begin on 7th like kings Db1+2.....sadly not at home to lab test it :/
If you allready have covered this topic or got an source for this then it would be deeply appreciated ^^
Man you're too fast! i needed to watch every part twice! but Great content for sure 👍🏼
◯ZANSHIN ✕ZENSHIN
I'm not a voice hater, but after being so used to the other one I do kind of miss it lol
Bros voice is actually nice. I think it’s time to throw out that tiktok ai voice 😂
b3 is a crime of a move on Jin. If i would play him that's a move i would abuse. It is a fast mid that cant be parried and hardly stepped. It has a followup that can't be challenged and even on block you can't option select Jins stance BS.
Even if you clip him and your option do not get evaded it will often result in floats that you cant convert into big damage.
All that on a character that has not a single flaw and no issue in controlling the neutral with ff2. I absolutely hate fighting this character!
This video proves that Jin takes some skill and is not braindead, he has to work for his damage. I've always liked the idea of applying ZEN stance and it's mixups were trash before changes they given him now, plus I like how it's even harder to use because you have to be frame perfect on the cancel to make it safe and apply the mental stack. He's way more fun now.
lol yeah right
Ayo no!! What is this garbage? Where’s Reina ??
I’m just messing 😂, good tutorial as always. But seriously where’s REINA ?? ANTI JIN GUIDE
IT CRUSHES HIGHS?!?!? *sad reina noises*
You picked the worst character as an example on how to anti-ZEN, as Kazuya doesn't get to have a standard i13 df1 mid check.
Every single move from Jin's ZEN will be negated and killed by a standard df1 check and if a bad Jin player tries chimpanzee ZEN2 he will armor the df1, you will recover in time to duck and annihilate him for daring to try chimpanzee ZEN2.
The only exception is *bf2,3~ZEN* as Jin is +2 on block so a kamikaze ZEN u1 can kill the universal anti-ZEN df1 check, so there are layered nuances there.
Kazuya is a special case where his absolute best option is his f2 power crush against chimpanzee Jin players.
It will lose to ZEN Cancel and the Shun Rendan throw. (Throws cannot be broken when countering power crushes)
But Kazuya f2 will beat every other option and Tornado Jin if he jumps with any jumping move from ZEN.
Only the absolute best Jin players on the planet can/will consistently frame-perfect ZEN Cancel.
It is the most advanced technique in Tekken 8.
Where the ai voice?
Thankfully gone
The character created for failed kazuyas
Gogh Gogh Gogh kazu- gogh gogh. Stop it, get some help. Kazuya isn’t a real person, stop 😮ing him so hard
Go back to AI voice please
first
why did jin's ZEN 2 not get nerfed like the other powercrush heat engagers? seems stupid.
He's the main character