Absolver Guide: What Makes a Move "Good"
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2024
- Your moves can't just be good, they have to be in the right place.
MORE ABSOLVER LEARNING RESOURCES:
Erfun's Absolver Tutorial Series: • ABSOLVER TUTORIAL: How...
Deckbuilding Guide Document: docs.google.co...
J0ker's frame data spreadsheet: drive.google.c...
Absolver Official Discord: / discord
DECKS SHOWN IN THIS VIDEO:
Bad deck: absolver.dev/?...
Improved deck (aka Sneak deck): www.absolver.d...
Tracklist:
Marvel vs Capcom 2: Clock Tower Stage
Dustforce: Light Pollution
Big thanks to Ian for helping record, Mork and Devon for the excellent feedback, and Sneak for making the deck that I butchered for this video. If you have any Absolver questions feel free to leave a comment or send me a message and I will do my best to answer. More videos coming soon.
This is mandatory watching for new players.
It’s good to see that there are other people who are still interested in absolver
Still? Always have been.
Well done. You highlight elements that will allow new players to enhance their perspective and introduce them to concepts that might get them a couple layers deeper. Deck composition can make or break players when facing a fairly competent opponent.
Lovely vid Jackson! Can't wait for the next one.
Great video, always great to see videos of this game
Dude THANKS, been playing Absolver since it came back free on PS Plus way back in 2018, but i stopped playing sometime after the Downfall update and just got back recently. And i can say for sure that up until now for me, even being a pretty old player at this point, a LOT of these terminologies and deck-building mindsets where still unclear. I always asked around and tried to learn, but never found a video so well made that told everything in such a simple way.
Gonna rebuild my deck from scratch for the 200th time
Great video! Now we just have to find new players to send this to 😭
This video rules
"Side Kick > Leg Breaker"
Unlockers: >:(
>:(
Best guide I’ve seen
Hopefully you make more of these videos
Impressive keep up the good work
LETS GOOO WE NEED MORE ABSOLVER CONTENT PLEASE also do you have a sword building deck and how to get more moves!
Good video. Would love to see a similar deck composition video for fighting against kahlt. Seeing as some people think that’s “asking too much.” I apologize if I am asking too much.
I've been thinking about making some matchup guides, but they are still in the very beginning stages. The short answer for kahlt is timing mixups and super heavies. They have a much harder time absorbing during your strings if your timing mixups are big, and if your heavies in those mixups deal around 200 damage they are put in a really tough position whenever they have to absorb or block them. You can use the bottom left stance in the deck in this video as an example of this. Low backfist and flute swing have a huge difference in timing and absorbing flute swing is very dangerous, so you'll discourage them from confidently absorbing, and if they aren't absorbing you get to build pressure on their stamina.
I'd also recommend checking out Morklympious's video about kahlt! He does a good job explaining the mini game that goes on when kahlt absorbs a move.
@@JaxKenobi no you can see my comments in his video. I’ve been thinking about this for little over a year and my typical play is to not fight because the match up is so devoid of anything close to fun, but lately with bolver+ and the buffs to kahlt it’s made it even more likely for me to avoid. You say there’s two options, absorb/block but you leave out their third option that works surprisingly well to avoid/punish attacks and that’s spacing/dodging. Spacing on your faint pressure playing footsies/unlocking in and out of your range and punishing you if you faint/press. Dodging heavy moves over 20frames like shk with the right absorbs or dodge window they can punish(get health back) before you can recover to block. Those are my main issues anyway.
Mainly I’d like to see a deck that you would use specifically to fight a good kahlt and a set showcasing why and how the deck works.
@@VA_Kushiel_AV I see. Playing a spacing game is always a bit gimmicky in Absolver since it costs a lot of stamina and frequently gets you hit on the way in or out, but that's highly deck dependent. You could pull a sword to out range them if your deck doesn't happen to have many good options to deal with it, or use some openers with decent range that lead to a good kahlt mixup. Fencing punch as your opener into liver knee/spinning wide hook mixup would be very scary for kahlt to deal with, for example.
As for getting punished before you can block, that's just not the case. If you don't link into another attack, you can always block before they can hit you, and if you read that they are going for a fast move, you can use your defensive ability on it and now they've taken all the damage from the first attack, plus the attack you land for using your ability on them.
If I were to build a deck specifically to fight kahlt, it would most likely be something with a lot of moves that have 20f or higher startup, paired with strings that build strong pressure. Basically, most of the deck would look similar to the low backfist paired with flute swing stance in the video. Forcing kahlt to stare down 200 damage attacks constantly will get them to start mashing you instead of absorbing you, and that's a much simpler mind game to play most of the time. You don't have to worry nearly as much about the absorb, you just have to decide if you think they are going to mash or not.
Also for the record, I think this deck is quite good against kahlt. Almost every part of the deck has attack pairings where the difference in timing between your two options is at least 5 frames, which is how long kahlt's absorb is active for, meaning they can't absorb both of your options with the same timing, they have to pick one or the other. In addition, the heavy moves like spinning high kick and flute swing are quite tough to pleb dodge because of the big sweeping hitboxes, and in flute's case, long range.
Every class's defensive ability is punished in a slightly different way, kahlt's is just the most different. I don't think this type of variety is a bad thing. Here's how I think of it: When I'm playing against any class, my turn is over and I am taking damage as soon as they land their defensive ability. But when I'm against kahlt, at the very worst I still get to block, and at the very best I get to punish him. When he absorbs, we both have to make another choice, which means his choice can still be wrong, or mine can be right. When windfall makes a mistake, they get hurt once. When kahlt makes a mistake, it often hurts twice as much as the other classes, that's the tradeoff for having easier execution.
@@JaxKenobi unlocking can be a bit of gimmick but if it works it works. Footsies on the other hand isn’t. Walk speed in your back stance is fast enough for them to back out of your faint pressure and if you’re pressing to close the distance then you’re burning stamina making it easy for them to punish you on the chase. If the answer is to just use a sword or shards then there’s nothing further to discuss as the other classes do not require going to that extent just to have a good fight.
You can see in Morks vid where he fights Landfill and he dodges out of the way of morks swh no problem. A bit rusty or just wasn’t ready but most kahlts I fight have their 12frame buffered after dodging moves like shk and they’re able to hit me while I’m still recovering from the move due to the janky avoid property on the dodge. So yeah for you guys that don’t experience these fights, that’s how they go for me nine times out of ten. So don’t tell me that it’s not the case, guess I’ll get it recorded next chance I get.
And yeah I’ve done this long enough without anyone showing proof of concept. From the matches I’ve seen in tournaments of people “beating” a kahlt player, the match is either out classed or the kahlt player isn’t giving their best. I’ve had this discussion with a few other people and the only thing we agree on when you boil it down is that the matchup heavily relies on the kahlt being bad. Input/timing errors of absobs/dodges, pressing at the wrong time, and pressing the wrong attack option when it’s their turn.
That is good info that their absorb window is 5 frames. Though the animation can be inconsistent most of the time making it seem like 10. I’ve had kahlts get hit while they’re blue but the window wasn’t active. Rare occurrence, but something that happens often is when they get really late absorbs. It’s the late absorbs when they’re no longer blue and will immediately start up their 12frame because they buffered it in the absorb window that causes the guaranteed punish on moves like spinning high kick. Not sure if it’s tech some players have figured out or what but that’s why I stopped using super slow moves against kahlt.
They either walk or unlock out of range because they have all the time in the world to do so, or they time the absorb or dodge just right to get the punish. You spend so much stamina on these moves even if I’m able to block after that doesn’t leave me in a good position.
I much rather look into timing moves that you can actually guarantee to hit after baiting them with a faint to start. Sad thing is it’s mostly faint heavies into 12frames which isn’t the best but so far that’s the only consistent thing I know that works since you can’t punish their absorb with a gb anymore. Just because they miss time one absorb doesn’t mean they can’t buffer another and punish you for it. The method of “just mix up your timing” fails when the kahlt has adapted to that. Absorbing/blocking/dodging till you’re low on stam and then killing you because you don’t have stamina to defend yourself. Their survivability is at the highest as with four basic yet strong options(walking, unlocking, dodging, and their strongest option because it doesn’t require much timing is absorb) to opt out of an engagement or make you waste stamina And again I know you do it mostly for the comp scene so if the answer is just weapon/shard at that point then it’s an incredibly dull fight till something tangible is brought forth.
On a side not the matchup would be at least somewhat enjoyable to watch if the kahlt had to press up or down to absorb high or lows just to had a minimum lvl of complexity. No I’m not saying the class is effortless to play for anyone, just those who are already great players as you said in this exact video. A major strength is freeing up what you can focus on. When you’re already at that lvl there’s not much you left to focus on besides horizontal/thrust mixes for fae/stagger, high/mid/low for windfall, and left/right for forsaken. Every class has to worry about timing mixups, but for kahlts that’s all they have to worry about on + and it to me it just dulls the fight. So it makes me really curious to see in a video what I’m missing. I’m honestly surprised no one has made anything on this yet but it could be for good reason.
@@VA_Kushiel_AV Walking away in backstance is not unique to kahlt, it's strong for every class. That's a fundamental issue with Absolver, not kahlt.
As for Mork vs Landfill, yeah sometimes they'll dodge the super heavy. When they start doing that, you start feinting it, same as you do when any other class starts dealing with your offense. Adapting to your opponent is once again not unique to kahlt, changing it up when your opponent shows counterplay is universal. The difference here is that manual dodge is not as reliable as a defensive ability. If you throw your super heavy and they try to manual dodge it, worst case scenario you take a 12f and lose your turn. Best case scenario they take 200+ damage, and in both outcomes they are down on stamina because they spent it manual dodging and buffering an attack. Absorb into manual dodge into buffered attack is always gonna cost more stamina than your super heavy, so you should always end that exchange in a pretty decent position, assuming you started from a relatively even one. Even if you get hit you're still regenerating your stamina while in hitstun, and he's not because he's attacking. Look at it in the long term, you may have lost the battle by taking a 12f, but you're winning the war if you can keep putting him in situations where his stamina costs are higher than yours.
Proof of concept for what? I'm not sure what you're referring to. If you look at tournament footage, there is always a winner and a loser of course. The match is decided by who is outclassing the other on that particular day. Watch Althur vs Pleb from the jadefest tournament a few months back and tell me Pleb isn't giving his best. Or watch any of Kuro's matches and then watch his grand finals match vs Menelcar and tell me Kuro isn't outplaying everyone there and "he only won because the kahlt didn't give his best". Here's the kicker: Input errors, pressing at the wrong time, etc. etc. are mistakes that every player makes no matter how good they are. Every single match that has ever been played has been decided by players making mistakes and the other player capitalizing on them. It doesn't make sense to view a matchup through the lens of theoretically perfect play, because no human being is perfect and everyone has the capacity to outplay their opponent or choke away the game by screwing up.
I'm glad I could help out with frame data, I think that kind of concrete evidence helps a lot when you're trying to think of a gameplan. There's a spreadsheet in the description that has a lot of tested info that might have more useful stuff for you as well. I would also bet that many of the late absorbs or janky looking animations you've seen come down to lag or latency, I've experienced things like that as well and it seems to happen more often when the connection isn't very good. Unfortunately Absolver's netcode is far from perfect so the only way around this one is to play with people who you have a solid connection with.
Feint heavies into 12f is a reliably strategy for sure. Sometimes you just have to take the small rewards until you've conditioned them to allow you to take larger ones, but once again that's applicable to every class. And since you mentioned the kahlt adapting past you, I'd like to reiterate that adapting past each other is the entire push and pull of the fighting game genre. You do something, he counterplays. You adapt to the counterplay, he adapts to yours, so you have to adapt again, and it goes on and on until one of you wins. Like I said, I don't think variety in how you have to counterplay your opponent is bad. Kahlt makes you change it up a lot more often and a lot faster than the other classes via the nature of its one direction ability, but all of the situations kahlt puts you in are situations that you still have a say in.
I will say I think the stamina management game is extremely important against kahlt. If you're at half stamina and they are at 80% full, you gotta find a way to get that closer to even or you're gonna have a hard time establishing meaningful offense. But once you start winning the stamina war and you end up with more than him you can really start whittling kahlt down. This is easier for some classes than others. If you're windfall, you only need one or two dodges to turn the tables, and if you're fae or stagger you've got other tools to mix them up on absorb which makes the stamina game less important. If you're forsaken you probably will have a rougher time, they don't get nearly as much stamina for their ability.
Bottle Necks. Remember that please. Not sure a lot of players know the meaning of that definition and Jackson, you swell dog, you put together everything very well. I look forward to your next lesson. Keep em coming
So damn good!!
Awesome vid
dwit chagi is fine for me. strong neutral option, good tracking, decent frame data, only downside is is that its 15 frames so its not that good of a counter tool when you get a saken parry or smth (i dont care if u prove me wrong, go ahead lmfao)
I usually build around moves I like and I try incorporate them correctly into the deck so I’m having fun while still be able to compete.
I don’t like having the “best deck” and moves regardless of whether I like them or not, that will just lead to me getting bored real fast, sure I might be winning but I’m not enjoying it. Plus you just feel like a p**sy when you use the meta crap, crane and underknee.
Is there a way to see how much frame advantage your opponent has after hitting your guard?
If you know which move hit your guard, you can go into the deck editor and view the data for that move. It will tell you how much advantage that move has on hit, on guard, etc.
You can also check the data on Mork's absolver.dev deck building app if you don't want to boot the game up.
Twist parry is a advanced move
Wait can If I make a very low but like instantly fast deck would it be good
It would work until you run into an opponent who knows how to tap block, then it would become useless. If all you have is fast moves, you won't be able to bring down your opponent's stamina enough to threaten them. You need some heavy hitters in there to force them to make a choice besides just blocking.
@@JaxKenobi so if my alts are heavy’s that’s mid with my deck would that work
@@XDgiraffe It would certainly be better than using only fast attacks! I can't say for sure without seeing exactly what you're building, but heavy alts with faster sequences is a decent place to start.
@@JaxKenobi okay thank you I’m not too good at building decks so thanks for the input
@@JaxKenobi oh do you have a discord so I could show you moves I know and the deck I’m building and you could help me
I like your video.
More combo pls ❤
i watched this entire vidoe and non of it made sense. ok like I kinda understand it but now I just know how to pair THOSE moves that he showes in the vidoe. I only have a few of thoes moves and I dont know how to apply this knowlege to the moves that i have. For example, he talkes about how a sertain move dosnt go well with the others weekenss. But I dont know how to tell what my moves weekeness is. I fell like im missing somthing so can someone help me
A move's weakness is just the way you counter that move, primarily with a style ability. For example, front kick's weaknesses are that you can side step it, and it is slow. To cover those weaknesses, you would pair it with a move that does not have those weaknesses, something that cannot be side stepped and is fast, like wobble low kick, or hook, or jar bash.
In other words, if you want to use front kick, the move you pair with front kick needs to function the opposite way. Pair fast with slow, and thrust with horizontal. After you've got that as a starting point for all your stances, you can work out the minutiae and fix the smaller problems that arise.
If it helps, you could use the video as a reference point to find moves that are similar to the ones in the video. You can use crouching elbow for the same purposes as drunk crane for example, since crouching elbow and drunk crane have the same weakness. Or you could pair backfist with inside kick instead of cleaver blow with wobble low kick as another example.
@@JaxKenobi thank you this helped comment actually helped a lot. One more question, is it better for your starting move to be a kick or a punch or dose it not really matter?
@@l_taco2361 Kick vs punch doesn't really matter as long as you have the right type of pairing!
@@JaxKenobi ok thank you 🙏
well things just got alot more complicated.
Yeah have a youtuber do absolver
Content like these is why games like this can never blow up
is there a boxing style?
Background music is irrational beyond belief
What do you mean?
Not even gonna watch the video lemme tell yall whats up, what makes a move good, IS HOW YOU USE IT
Bingo
ok mid ps4 guy
@@jvnedot oh ya mad?? Cuz I can fight with any move?? Learn to play tiny man.
@@kirro_uzumaki3271 why would i be mad lol
you're trash
lol ok random ps4 shitter