While I've survived an altitude-related accident after a combination of wing-over and spiral diving, it's a maneuver I usually do as much as possible on every flight. I like to feel the G force.
Me, I love the G’s. For me it’s the big fun of what could be just another down-flight. But for a lot of pilots (including me) this technique should be really good for when a prolonged spiral just isn’t viable (huge lift).
I have been experimenting/training on these spins/recovery with a paramotor. Tried it the other day on a Mojo Pwr 2 and it definitely locked in. The exit with weight shift and continuing to gradually reduce the brake in the turn was pretty smooth though. Good video!
Locked in means with no input, hands up, you get stuck in the spiral. The Mojo should not lock in, that is an A glider isnt it? You said to get out you reduced brake pressure, so it sounds like you were not hands up.
@@mikes6216 negative. I said the exit. I had to apply brake to exit the turn. After it started to exit as a result of opposite brake pressure I reapplied slight brake pressure on the turn side to try to slow down the exit. The paraglider definitely locked in. No input allowed the dive to continue for several turns before I exited by opposite brake pressure for fear of g-loc.
Thank you for mentioning the tight 360s and you can just be very careful not to get locked in a spiral and find yourself in trouble. How many feet across do you think a tight 360 is?
@Jocky Sanderson from the subtitle, I read 2nd line and in the audio it is not clear, moreover the sun is right in that area; so you intend to pull the outer one of the A. or the whole riser? Thanks for your nice job.
Pretty sure it's the outer 2 As, as that is how you normally induce an asymmetric collapse. If he was pulling just one A, it would look more like Big Ears.
I love watching your videos even though I haven't flown my paraglider yet. September 1st I get to start my training. I've been looking at this spiral dive situation versus the 360s that you spoke of that could cause your descent of 14 m per second. What would be the least meters per second you could descend while you were doing the continuous 360s
@@JockySandersonparagliding here's the general plan. I am starting a cloud seeding club. I come to your house on the best day possible to make it rain at your house on your farm. I go to the prearranged site at just the right time and I launch with a big bag of cornstarch or dust from your barn whichever you want to try. I fly up in the sky of wind of your farm I get right under a cloud and I dump the bag of cornstarch out and the cloud sucks it right up into the mix and it starts to rain. If I can get a cloud that's kind of unstable and ready to bust loose with rain I could probably hit it with the barn dust for the cornstarch and it would spit out a bunch of rain all of a sudden. It's kind of like a slot machine I take all the time to fly up to this cloud dump out the stuff to make it rain and try to aim the cloud at the farm that let me fly away. It's a public service I'm doing I bought this wing with my mom's inheritance money and she was a farmer I've always wanted to help farmers and now I'm going to help it rain on farmers. I'm offering it up as a free service and see who signs up. I already have one pretty good place for launching it's private for just me.
Great video! I don't enjoy pulling g's and the collapsed spiral looks like a good technique. When you pull the asymmetric are you pulling and holding the outer A's only?
Great tips. Just a little worried about the collapsed spiral technique, as this requires much more to the glider structure, due to the loading. Also, applying too much brake to the open side to get in the spiral could end up stalling the wing. Does that make sense?
Thanks. it is quite a progressive entry and exit so it is hard to over brake and stall it. With all these moves you should practice them before you really need them.
@@JockySandersonparagliding How about the stress on the glider. Does the maneuver decrease the resulting G force to the half? If not, resulting stress would be more on the glider.
Hi Jocky. In the comparison the left gliders does 7.5 turns from the start in the same time the collapsed one does 8. Since the G forces come from spiraling (yes?) how come the pilot with the collapse experiences less of it? I would expect slower turning equals less G force. Strange because I have been using this technique on my BiBeta 2 (old, I know) for ages because it's a much better experience for passengers. After seeing the comparison in this video I am puzzled how it works because I used to think it was due to extra draft/resistance on the collapsed side making it going down comparatively faster at a slower turning rate, but it turns even faster!
Hi Peter, nice observations. My feeling is that it's generally the rotation is slower and each 360 is more vertical hence reducing the G-force of a normal spiral which rotates faster with similar virtual aspect. It is similar to the anti-G description you can find on the Ozone website. I could always be wrong but it does work, more noticeably on higher aspect gliders.
When I shit my pants because of bumpy air and a constant feeling of the wing loosing load and I decide to land, is a spiral better than ears? I fear it's less stable if I loose my facing to the wind during the circles. My train of thought is that by exposing the leading edge to different wind directions, a gust could do even more to it. On the other hand, the wing load could be better through the centrifugal effect. What's your preferred "im out"-technique, spiral or ears?
Spiral is best for coming down fast and safely but you need to know how to get in and out correctly. A tight 360 is almost as good. B ears can be used but make you roll unstable so I feel its better to come into a rough landing actively flying the whole glider. have fun.
I have been made aware that to reduce the G forces in a spiral dive a 1-sided big ear could be used on the opposite side of the spiral dive. Are there any resources to understand this maneuver and what the pro and cons are and its diving speed vs. a regular spiral dive? Thanks!
Hi Franco, You do a 40% asymmetric tuck on the left, for example, and you entry a 360/ spiral dive to the right, while still holding in the tuck, usually the same as a big big ear, or normal big ear, if you only have 2 A lines each side. To exit, release the tuck and exit smoothly as a spiral dive into 360 and exit. You notice the reduced G more when you fly the higher aspect ratio gliders.
@@JockySandersonparagliding Sorry to bother you, you stated in your prior reply "...To exit, release the tuck and exit smoothly as a spiral dive into 360 and exit." Would it be just as good to release the inner brake and weight shift first to reduce the bank angle dive, and then release the tuck/big ear? Thanks in advance!
@@JockySandersonparagliding Would I release the inside brake, but keep the weight shift on the inside. Could I then release the big ear on outside or when do I release the big ear? Thx.
@@JockySandersonparagliding I'm learning how to fly an epsilon 9 so far I was groundhandling in about a 9 mile an hour wind and I went on a 15-ft flight I was standing there one second and the next second I was laying on my side 15 ft away on the ground wham it was going to drag me. Since it's a b-class wing, and the advertisement said it would fly better in turbulence if you would just put your hands up and stay off the brakes, I have decided to try to do all my steering with weight shift, because that mathematician advance company can't see where I need to go. I figured you reduce pilot error if you just keep your hands off the brakes and let the thing fly. The land here does not have a laminar flow like you guys get down there by the ocean. There is a lot of friction and hills 100 to 300 ft tall. The slopes aren't usually steep and there's plenty of places to land. I believe the best flying strategy here is to stay off the brakes and keep on the speed so if you hit a little turbulence you've got enough energy to dominate. The best I can calculate mathematically there's going to be a lot of gradient here so when you come down you can be flying into a good headwind and the good headwind will drop off and you will sink or stall if you were flying at minimum sink. I'm 5'10 I weigh 240 lb. I'm flying heavy on the wing. I have a farmer that's a long time friend and will let me fly from his place it's huge you can't even see a power pole from most of it. It's got slopes at point every different compass point so somewhere it's blowing uphill. I intend to fly from there on a good day for thermals and try to get to the bottom of the clouds. Then I'm going to throw out a package of cornstarch to see if I can see the cloud and make it rain. The next year word will get out that my friend got an extra rain.... The other farmers will be jealous, and they will all say"don't you love me too, why can't you fly from my house and make it rain on my fields ?"I intend to get a broom and a witch's hat. I'm going to put the hat on my flying helmet and I'm going to put the broom on my harness so I can fly through the air sitting on a broom. I figure aerodynamically this will give me some parasitic drag on the pilot end of the situation. When I fly down through this gradient if the speed drops enough that it wants to stall it will already be tipped down a little bit towards dive.
Hi Daniel, You notice the reduced G more with the high aspect ratio wings but I would be careful practicing if your tips are hard to get out after big ears etc.
Thanks Jocky! I heard one concern is the compromised structural integrity during the opposite side tuck spiral maneuver (more load on less wing/fewer lines) - do you have any thoughts on that?
@@danzeee I agree, there is more load on fewer lines, but these manoeuvres are tools you use when you need them and the risk to reward is worth it in the circumstance. I would not advocate collapsing and doing SIV with regularity as it can take its toll on wings, but we need to practice.
This video is art, loved it! Would have been nice to see both risers when you are pulling the collapse with the A's.
While I've survived an altitude-related accident after a combination of wing-over and spiral diving, it's a maneuver I usually do as much as possible on every flight. I like to feel the G force.
I like this opposite collapse to lower G forces on the spiral...
Me, I love the G’s. For me it’s the big fun of what could be just another down-flight. But for a lot of pilots (including me) this technique should be really good for when a prolonged spiral just isn’t viable (huge lift).
Thanks! Great video.
Really good videos, thank you!
Thank you so much help me out to do my siv course at 13 fly.
I have been experimenting/training on these spins/recovery with a paramotor. Tried it the other day on a Mojo Pwr 2 and it definitely locked in. The exit with weight shift and continuing to gradually reduce the brake in the turn was pretty smooth though. Good video!
Locked in means with no input, hands up, you get stuck in the spiral. The Mojo should not lock in, that is an A glider isnt it? You said to get out you reduced brake pressure, so it sounds like you were not hands up.
@@mikes6216 negative. I said the exit. I had to apply brake to exit the turn. After it started to exit as a result of opposite brake pressure I reapplied slight brake pressure on the turn side to try to slow down the exit. The paraglider definitely locked in. No input allowed the dive to continue for several turns before I exited by opposite brake pressure for fear of g-loc.
Your content is sooooo good!!
Thank you for mentioning the tight 360s and you can just be very careful not to get locked in a spiral and find yourself in trouble. How many feet across do you think a tight 360 is?
@Jocky Sanderson from the subtitle, I read 2nd line and in the audio it is not clear, moreover the sun is right in that area; so you intend to pull the outer one of the A. or the whole riser?
Thanks for your nice job.
yupp, i had the same issue. by the looks of it it is the outer A only
Pretty sure it's the outer 2 As, as that is how you normally induce an asymmetric collapse. If he was pulling just one A, it would look more like Big Ears.
@@TeePolgar both and / or all 'A', as for a symmetric
I like the zugspitze background !
That looks like Montreux with the Sonchaux Launch.
I love watching your videos even though I haven't flown my paraglider yet. September 1st I get to start my training. I've been looking at this spiral dive situation versus the 360s that you spoke of that could cause your descent of 14 m per second. What would be the least meters per second you could descend while you were doing the continuous 360s
normal 360's would be about 8 metres but it depends how steeply you bank
@@JockySandersonparagliding here's the general plan. I am starting a cloud seeding club. I come to your house on the best day possible to make it rain at your house on your farm. I go to the prearranged site at just the right time and I launch with a big bag of cornstarch or dust from your barn whichever you want to try. I fly up in the sky of wind of your farm I get right under a cloud and I dump the bag of cornstarch out and the cloud sucks it right up into the mix and it starts to rain. If I can get a cloud that's kind of unstable and ready to bust loose with rain I could probably hit it with the barn dust for the cornstarch and it would spit out a bunch of rain all of a sudden. It's kind of like a slot machine I take all the time to fly up to this cloud dump out the stuff to make it rain and try to aim the cloud at the farm that let me fly away. It's a public service I'm doing I bought this wing with my mom's inheritance money and she was a farmer I've always wanted to help farmers and now I'm going to help it rain on farmers. I'm offering it up as a free service and see who signs up. I already have one pretty good place for launching it's private for just me.
Great video! I don't enjoy pulling g's and the collapsed spiral looks like a good technique. When you pull the asymmetric are you pulling and holding the outer A's only?
yes, normally the outer 2
Yes, either the big ear line or the next A to it, depending on how big you want it.
So at 4:00 when he sprials an A wing all he did to recover is hands up?
Great tips. Just a little worried about the collapsed spiral technique, as this requires much more to the glider structure, due to the loading. Also, applying too much brake to the open side to get in the spiral could end up stalling the wing. Does that make sense?
Thanks. it is quite a progressive entry and exit so it is hard to over brake and stall it. With all these moves you should practice them before you really need them.
@@JockySandersonparagliding How about the stress on the glider. Does the maneuver decrease the resulting G force to the half? If not, resulting stress would be more on the glider.
@@berkhanb it decreases the G force and loading i=on the wing. I would say half, perhaps a 3rd
@@JockySandersonparagliding Thanks a lot! I will try it in next flight.
Hi Jocky. In the comparison the left gliders does 7.5 turns from the start in the same time the collapsed one does 8. Since the G forces come from spiraling (yes?) how come the pilot with the collapse experiences less of it? I would expect slower turning equals less G force. Strange because I have been using this technique on my BiBeta 2 (old, I know) for ages because it's a much better experience for passengers. After seeing the comparison in this video I am puzzled how it works because I used to think it was due to extra draft/resistance on the collapsed side making it going down comparatively faster at a slower turning rate, but it turns even faster!
Hi Peter, nice observations. My feeling is that it's generally the rotation is slower and each 360 is more vertical hence reducing the G-force of a normal spiral which rotates faster with similar virtual aspect. It is similar to the anti-G description you can find on the Ozone website. I could always be wrong but it does work, more noticeably on higher aspect gliders.
So i figure go into spiral gently and repeat coming out of spiral
When I shit my pants because of bumpy air and a constant feeling of the wing loosing load and I decide to land, is a spiral better than ears? I fear it's less stable if I loose my facing to the wind during the circles. My train of thought is that by exposing the leading edge to different wind directions, a gust could do even more to it. On the other hand, the wing load could be better through the centrifugal effect. What's your preferred "im out"-technique, spiral or ears?
Spiral is best for coming down fast and safely but you need to know how to get in and out correctly. A tight 360 is almost as good. B ears can be used but make you roll unstable so I feel its better to come into a rough landing actively flying the whole glider. have fun.
I have been made aware that to reduce the G forces in a spiral dive a 1-sided big ear could be used on the opposite side of the spiral dive.
Are there any resources to understand this maneuver and what the pro and cons are and its diving speed vs. a regular spiral dive? Thanks!
Hi Franco, You do a 40% asymmetric tuck on the left, for example, and you entry a 360/ spiral dive to the right, while still holding in the tuck, usually the same as a big big ear, or normal big ear, if you only have 2 A lines each side. To exit, release the tuck and exit smoothly as a spiral dive into 360 and exit. You notice the reduced G more when you fly the higher aspect ratio gliders.
@@JockySandersonparagliding Sorry to bother you, you stated in your prior reply "...To exit, release the tuck and exit smoothly as a spiral dive into 360 and exit."
Would it be just as good to release the inner brake and weight shift first to reduce the bank angle dive, and then release the tuck/big ear?
Thanks in advance!
@@ffilice1 do not weight shift away while in a spiral, it will send you in a violent exit the other way.
@@JockySandersonparagliding Would I release the inside brake, but keep the weight shift on the inside. Could I then release the big ear on outside or when do I release the big ear?
Thx.
If you weight shift for your turns without using the brakes can you still get into a spiral?
it is pretty tricky and depends on the glider, but it's not really possible spiral with weight shift only as it need brake input to hold it in.
@@JockySandersonparagliding I'm learning how to fly an epsilon 9 so far I was groundhandling in about a 9 mile an hour wind and I went on a 15-ft flight I was standing there one second and the next second I was laying on my side 15 ft away on the ground wham it was going to drag me. Since it's a b-class wing, and the advertisement said it would fly better in turbulence if you would just put your hands up and stay off the brakes, I have decided to try to do all my steering with weight shift, because that mathematician advance company can't see where I need to go. I figured you reduce pilot error if you just keep your hands off the brakes and let the thing fly. The land here does not have a laminar flow like you guys get down there by the ocean. There is a lot of friction and hills 100 to 300 ft tall. The slopes aren't usually steep and there's plenty of places to land. I believe the best flying strategy here is to stay off the brakes and keep on the speed so if you hit a little turbulence you've got enough energy to dominate. The best I can calculate mathematically there's going to be a lot of gradient here so when you come down you can be flying into a good headwind and the good headwind will drop off and you will sink or stall if you were flying at minimum sink. I'm 5'10 I weigh 240 lb. I'm flying heavy on the wing. I have a farmer that's a long time friend and will let me fly from his place it's huge you can't even see a power pole from most of it. It's got slopes at point every different compass point so somewhere it's blowing uphill. I intend to fly from there on a good day for thermals and try to get to the bottom of the clouds. Then I'm going to throw out a package of cornstarch to see if I can see the cloud and make it rain. The next year word will get out that my friend got an extra rain.... The other farmers will be jealous, and they will all say"don't you love me too, why can't you fly from my house and make it rain on my fields ?"I intend to get a broom and a witch's hat. I'm going to put the hat on my flying helmet and I'm going to put the broom on my harness so I can fly through the air sitting on a broom. I figure aerodynamically this will give me some parasitic drag on the pilot end of the situation. When I fly down through this gradient if the speed drops enough that it wants to stall it will already be tipped down a little bit towards dive.
Jocky, what are your thoughts on the opposite tuck spiral technique with higher aspect wings? Thanks!
Hi Daniel, You notice the reduced G more with the high aspect ratio wings but I would be careful practicing if your tips are hard to get out after big ears etc.
Thanks Jocky! I heard one concern is the compromised structural integrity during the opposite side tuck spiral maneuver (more load on less wing/fewer lines) - do you have any thoughts on that?
@@danzeee I agree, there is more load on fewer lines, but these manoeuvres are tools you use when you need them and the risk to reward is worth it in the circumstance. I would not advocate collapsing and doing SIV with regularity as it can take its toll on wings, but we need to practice.
I’m a newbie
Just noticed that his chest strap wasn’t engaged
I’d never try this
Or am I missing something? Is it locked in?
Hi Steve, The chest strap should be done up. not sure where you noticed it wasn't. The blue glider was locked in. Cheers
What would be the maximum G force during a spiral?
Normally about 3-4 G
3-4 G's
Is 4 G enough to pass out? 🤔
@@wrash , if you are a bit tired or drunk or if you didn't get exposed to G force before i think you can have a blackout even with 2 G