Thanks for sharing this story. Just a site related side note, I once went to Tenerife for a week of flying - it's beatutiful but the terrain is certainly not paraglider friendly. Launch sites are fine but if something goes wrong and say you need a spot for emergency landing, there's plenty of sharp rocks and cacti to greet U. During the week I was there, there were a number of accidents, some serious, mostly in those gorges around the launch site mentioned in the video. Personally, I'm not too drawn to go back there for flying, mainly due to unfriendly terrain - I'd rather go for the softness of an Alpine meadow or even an embrace of a spruce ;) Hope You're getting better by the day Andy !
Thanks for sharing, thereby helping us stay safe. Had a crash - possibly at that same site - on a Tenerife trip (too) early in my PG career. Cravat on forward launch. Too inexperienced to understand what was going on, just got turned into the ground and snapped my wrist on impact. I, too, was lucky and have tried to learn from that. Thanks again and all the best for your recovery.
thanks for sharing.ive noticed that a lot accidents ocurr with forward launch. its always necessary to double check your lines, wing, reserve handle etc. and have a guy watch your back~good luck
Hi Andy, I wish you a speedy recovery. I paraglide in Tenerife every year and there’s often rotor at Ifonche and Taucho if the wind creeps in from the left of takeoff. Glad it wasn’t more serious. 🙏 Rocks are unforgiving. Thank you for sharing. Regards Steve
Thanks a lot for this Information - there are so many „hey and away we go, everything goes“ - vids on the net, so it‘s really good to get some other picture as well. And to get this without being scared away from the sport makes it even more precious. 👍
Great analysis and all the best during recovery. I’m seeing a small tend here. There was another British pilot (an instructor) in the UK who recently had a collapse and he was going across a valley with gullies/ridges (v shaped grooves) and was hospitalised (he did a video). His take was that you get rotors from gullies due to the venturis. They can whip up quite high. My personal take-away it get as far out from the mountain on the flat sloped surface and get lots of altitude (way more would think), then start crossing gullied faces. Thoughts ?
Best wishes for recovery and thanks for the analysis ! Indeed it seems complacency of being in vacation rather than comp mode added to the fact that the first moments after takeoff are crucial got him ... I had the pleasure to break both ankles on landing in Tenerife as well as a beginner, so I do confirm that the terrain on those volcanic islands is really a b*tch !!
I am not flying at this spot anymore, also had a small collaps 10sec after takeoff and a really scarry landing down at a scrapyard. Got the flight also on my channel. I like the north side more to fly.
Just came back from SIV in Oludeniz practicing this exactly recovery technique. Lean on flying side, pull flying side brake. stay on heading. don't allow glider to spin. All that is easily said on a EN-B Calypso which is what I was inducing collapses on....these comp gliders are a whole nother animal. Cheers Andy for sharing and caring. Last day of SIV I was playing around in some lift on Half trims and had my first real world in the wild slap down from some very strong lift/ exit of thermal. The very center of my wing got slapped down and folded evenly out the entire leading edge just short of the tips. Both tips stayed open, but the whole wing tucked back and snapped back open in an instant. I then decided I had had enough lift for the day and was b lining straight for the box once again. LOl. Mountains and no motors.....you guys can have it bro. I'll stick to my flatland flying and Trusty motor wing.
Get well soon Andy. Interestingly the first canyon there nearly claimed me 5 years ago when I took off from Taucho with a knot in my lines which resulted in me being pulled to the left and plunging down the first ravine. Deep brake and weight shift saw me fly out and a 10 minute top to anywhere at the bottom. Longest flight in fear I have ever had. Tenerife is great but the terrain is not friendly!
I have flown this site quite a few times from less than 8hrs post cp. That spot has ALWAYS been in the site brief as its well known as a problem spot. I'm glad he survived to fly another day and I hope the recovery doesnt take too long. Maybe the emphasis on this situation should be on the basics we all learn at the school stage of the importance of the site brief? As important as it is to discuss low level collapses, the swiss cheese analogy really comes into play here. None of us are immune to brain farts so these debriefs are so important. I hope this can open dialogue rather than this comment being deleted again.
Andy thank you so much for sharing this valuable experience with all of us. And get well 110% 💪🏻 . 10 % is the extra safety margin. Before i started flying (1985 fixed wing, jet, fighters, airliners and stuff) an old captain said to me “Marc you will never fly a bitt, you always fly with 100% or more. A bit of flying does not exists” ! Despite the fact that paragliding (since 4 years bgd cure 2) is a very relaxing and really great sport/hobby, it is dangerous since you are in the air. As a trained professional pilot we always have stay in the safety window/margin. To be out this safety margin is ok but only if you are aware of it and return instantly back into it again. Professional pilots do make mistakes as well. The only difference is that we will not leave the safe area on purpose or for the fun. Fly-by’s and low passes are not allowed anymore😉 What happend to Andy was bad luck with some nice reflexes and thoughts just before he crashed (a good landing is a landing you can walk away from). He went out of the safety margin, he recognized it and went back in to it. As a pro! Only the altitude was not enough. But as long as we share this with each other, we will learn. And a learned lesson is very valuable! Greg is there a “international safety platform” on you tube or so where we can watch this? Maybe you can introduce something like that? I also have a nice crash movie from El penon Mexico where a men crashed used his reserve and was unharmed. In this case “sharing is caring”! Safe and fun flights! Gr Marc Litjens
Dont fly, but tempted to start. With a b wing you would have recovered quickly or you would not have had the collapse? I hear a lot about accidents but there dont seem to be a lot info about wings, conditions and so on...
Get better soon! I have not had to use my Charly Paralock quick-release carabiners in the air yet, but I've used them twice to eliminate the possibility of being dragged on the ground. They're very nice for that. I highly recommend them.
Tenerife is covered with cacti. I did a small XC on the island and it was the scariest XC in my life: no landing options except of the black beach, all the way. I had no choice rather that doing triangle. Cacti are very motivating in keeping you in the air :)
that's why I keep flying hang gliders. They are virtually "indestructible" like the t-shirt you're wearing, you don't remember it. Just focus on flying not the machine. Paragliding it's like having a live animal above your head that wants to kill you. Even with "defensive flying " blah blah, not rigid it's a HUGE problem. Have a nice recovery mate.
Reserve takes longer to deploy in a straight flight. The 3 seconds he had were definitely not enough for it to be effective and he would have to stop controling the glider for a moment to throw it where he was already aiming at a tiny hope of safer crash. Good idea if the colapse turned into autorotation but in this case that was not an option in my opinion.
Hi Greg, as you know bhpa instructors teach that if you have a big one under 500' first reaction should be reserve. I have seen someone have a big assymetric from 80' and a lighting quick throw and land on feet perfectly. Was it not worth asking the question? Speedy recovery to the pilot btw.
just happened to me (last week in Italian Alps)... scratching along a cliff wall, 50% collapse, instantly lost 10m, reacted too slow to get out from the face and open the wing but quick enough to choose between a rock-slide and a sticky-out/spiky bush - took the bush, hung on, all OK - no injuries at all - phew but, bottom ripped out of my harness as I scraped across the rock-slide to the bush... which stopped a potential bouncy slide down the face. Worst was freeing my wing and climbing out of the trap (almost 3 hours) - wing & lines OK, took off, short flight down - post adrenaline beer.
I am not worthy to wash Andys feet but I have flown Taucho a bit. 45 degrees across on the top take off can be coming near from the back or at least along the side in the air. Local guides warn us feeble pilots to never cross the two gullies low as the first one rotors the second and I have been there enough to know they were right (yes I am that stupid). I think @pentachronic has a point about UK pilots going into this sort of terrain too low. But the good news is that Andy is OK and his mate is a solid bloke who should get free beer for life. Really good he shares this, top bloke, a speedy recovery.
This looks like a comparable crash to the one by written up Chris Williams ‘St Valentine’s Day Downfall’ (in April 2023 Skywings mag page 30.) Both accidents had a cross wind on launch from the left, with gullies and ridges to the left causing rotor and turbulence to some height above the ground. Wishing Andy a speedy and full recovery!
Greg, the question we all want an answer to is.... what's that beer you're drinking?!? All the best Andy, hope you're back on your feet soon. Cheers boys!
Why did you release the R sided incipient spin? Sounds facile but i suggest its the crux of your difficulties. Requested by previously paralysed by hostile terrain ~ 2000 hours mixed acro xc.
Thanks for this. It was interesting to hear that holding course and actually trying to turn away just after the collapse didn't seem a good option at the time because the open side was looking like it was peeling. I just wonder if after thinking back it was worth playing with that a bit longer and even if it goes, it should just nod forwards when you release and you are in no worse shape. If it spins a bit away from the terrain then happy days. It's just that for low collapses, course is number 1 on my list and I think I'm going to keep that in my plan, but my Alpina is very forgiving in this - at least in training - yet to have to really test this in very turbulent air where all bets are usually off. Easy to say from comfort of home of course :D
Interestingly I have just been watching and trying to get a theoretical grasp on the swoop/fly on the wall landings and it instantly came to mind as he was talking about a forced downwind landing. How would someone (low to mid air timer) go about injecting some practice of that sort of landing or accelerating for a swoop ?
Thank you for sharing your misfortune. I have flown in Tenerife for 10 weeks in winter and it looks so pleasant with sunshine, the landing on the beach, but landing elsewhere among, rock and cactus is another story...I almost died (video on UA-cam), because of a front collapse. God's hand saved me from any injury and I was so lucky. I still fly there but two of my friends crashed and the outcome was not very pleasant. Like you. I wish you the best possible recovery ! Fly safe all of you.
Well said Greg. Yup if you learn anything from this give your self a safety margin. Well said. However there isn’t always a safety margin, when a crash happens. Just getting over an accident myself. 30 years in the game. Half that time as a pro. Spun, hit the ground. Broke back, shattered ankle and dislocated shoulder. 4 months later I’m pretty close to pulling up a wing again. Shit happens in Paragliders. That’s just how it is. I thought I was a safe pilot. We all muck up. I’ll certainly be less complacent near to the ground and keep a safety margin. Dead right on that one Greg One other thing you can do. Make sure you’re fit and that your body is strong. If you do crash, recovery is more likely. Best wishes Andy.
Uggh the tiger woods injury. You can almost see Greg wondering how he has stayed unharmed after all this time. And there is no guarantee of safety taking off from a gentle hill and flying over a cow pasture or trees. Height is height.
I would guess the little valleys caused a rotor there. They look quite steep and 45 degrees across would be enough to do that if it was blowing at any speed. Here's wishing you well Andy! Take it slow!
He crashed and was tied up in his Pod.!!! But you can't say... There are pods to be sold .... It's what you want when you crash... To be in safe Pod instead of having full movement of your legs...
I hope the mending is going well. It'd be interesting to know if there is any margin for flying the Boomer? straight or maintaining a turn away from the collapse without inducing a stall.
Thanks for sharing this story. Just a site related side note, I once went to Tenerife for a week of flying - it's beatutiful but the terrain is certainly not paraglider friendly. Launch sites are fine but if something goes wrong and say you need a spot for emergency landing, there's plenty of sharp rocks and cacti to greet U. During the week I was there, there were a number of accidents, some serious, mostly in those gorges around the launch site mentioned in the video. Personally, I'm not too drawn to go back there for flying, mainly due to unfriendly terrain - I'd rather go for the softness of an Alpine meadow or even an embrace of a spruce ;) Hope You're getting better by the day Andy !
Manzanita bushes are unforgiving. Tough as nails with the nails pointing outwards. They ain’t cactuses!!
Thanks for sharing, thereby helping us stay safe. Had a crash - possibly at that same site - on a Tenerife trip (too) early in my PG career. Cravat on forward launch. Too inexperienced to understand what was going on, just got turned into the ground and snapped my wrist on impact. I, too, was lucky and have tried to learn from that. Thanks again and all the best for your recovery.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
thanks for sharing.ive noticed that a lot accidents ocurr with forward launch. its always necessary to double check your lines, wing, reserve handle etc. and have a guy watch your back~good luck
Hi Andy, I wish you a speedy recovery. I paraglide in Tenerife every year and there’s often rotor at Ifonche and Taucho if the wind creeps in from the left of takeoff. Glad it wasn’t more serious. 🙏 Rocks are unforgiving. Thank you for sharing. Regards Steve
speedy recovery, thanks for the summary and sharing with us.
Thanks a lot for this Information - there are so many „hey and away we go, everything goes“ - vids on the net, so it‘s really good to get some other picture as well. And to get this without being scared away from the sport makes it even more precious.
👍
Thanks for this video and all the best wishes to Andy!
Well done for sharing Andy and good video Greg. All the best with the ongoing recovery. Good to see the kitchen got done amidst all this!!
Thanks for sharing. Best wishes for a quick recovery!
Great analysis and all the best during recovery. I’m seeing a small tend here. There was another British pilot (an instructor) in the UK who recently had a collapse and he was going across a valley with gullies/ridges (v shaped grooves) and was hospitalised (he did a video). His take was that you get rotors from gullies due to the venturis. They can whip up quite high. My personal take-away it get as far out from the mountain on the flat sloped surface and get lots of altitude (way more would think), then start crossing gullied faces. Thoughts ?
Best wishes for recovery and thanks for the analysis ! Indeed it seems complacency of being in vacation rather than comp mode added to the fact that the first moments after takeoff are crucial got him ... I had the pleasure to break both ankles on landing in Tenerife as well as a beginner, so I do confirm that the terrain on those volcanic islands is really a b*tch !!
I am not flying at this spot anymore, also had a small collaps 10sec after takeoff and a really scarry landing down at a scrapyard. Got the flight also on my channel. I like the north side more to fly.
Just came back from SIV in Oludeniz practicing this exactly recovery technique. Lean on flying side, pull flying side brake. stay on heading. don't allow glider to spin. All that is easily said on a EN-B Calypso which is what I was inducing collapses on....these comp gliders are a whole nother animal. Cheers Andy for sharing and caring. Last day of SIV I was playing around in some lift on Half trims and had my first real world in the wild slap down from some very strong lift/ exit of thermal. The very center of my wing got slapped down and folded evenly out the entire leading edge just short of the tips. Both tips stayed open, but the whole wing tucked back and snapped back open in an instant. I then decided I had had enough lift for the day and was b lining straight for the box once again. LOl. Mountains and no motors.....you guys can have it bro. I'll stick to my flatland flying and Trusty motor wing.
You do that. Keep on polluting the skies with your flying lawn mower.
Get well Andy! Let's fly again! cheers from Belgium
Get well soon Andy. Interestingly the first canyon there nearly claimed me 5 years ago when I took off from Taucho with a knot in my lines which resulted in me being pulled to the left and plunging down the first ravine. Deep brake and weight shift saw me fly out and a 10 minute top to anywhere at the bottom. Longest flight in fear I have ever had.
Tenerife is great but the terrain is not friendly!
Dang.........thanks for sharing your story! Hope you heal quick!!
I have flown this site quite a few times from less than 8hrs post cp. That spot has ALWAYS been in the site brief as its well known as a problem spot.
I'm glad he survived to fly another day and I hope the recovery doesnt take too long.
Maybe the emphasis on this situation should be on the basics we all learn at the school stage of the importance of the site brief?
As important as it is to discuss low level collapses, the swiss cheese analogy really comes into play here. None of us are immune to brain farts so these debriefs are so important.
I hope this can open dialogue rather than this comment being deleted again.
Andy thank you so much for sharing this valuable experience with all of us. And get well 110% 💪🏻 . 10 % is the extra safety margin.
Before i started flying (1985 fixed wing, jet, fighters, airliners and stuff) an old captain said to me “Marc you will never fly a bitt, you always fly with 100% or more. A bit of flying does not exists” !
Despite the fact that paragliding (since 4 years bgd cure 2) is a very relaxing and really great sport/hobby, it is dangerous since you are in the air. As a trained professional pilot we always have stay in the safety window/margin. To be out this safety margin is ok but only if you are aware of it and return instantly back into it again. Professional pilots do make mistakes as well. The only difference is that we will not leave the safe area on purpose or for the fun. Fly-by’s and low passes are not allowed anymore😉
What happend to Andy was bad luck with some nice reflexes and thoughts just before he crashed (a good landing is a landing you can walk away from). He went out of the safety margin, he recognized it and went back in to it. As a pro! Only the altitude was not enough.
But as long as we share this with each other, we will learn. And a learned lesson is very valuable!
Greg is there a “international safety platform” on you tube or so where we can watch this? Maybe you can introduce something like that? I also have a nice crash movie from El penon Mexico where a men crashed used his reserve and was unharmed. In this case “sharing is caring”!
Safe and fun flights!
Gr Marc Litjens
Videos like this keep me happy on my B wing in comps.
Dont fly, but tempted to start. With a b wing you would have recovered quickly or you would not have had the collapse? I hear a lot about accidents but there dont seem to be a lot info about wings, conditions and so on...
@@markust5601 Correct. Beginner wings are more forgiving.
Get better soon!
I have not had to use my Charly Paralock quick-release carabiners in the air yet, but I've used them twice to eliminate the possibility of being dragged on the ground. They're very nice for that. I highly recommend them.
thanks for sharing this conversation
Tenerife is covered with cacti. I did a small XC on the island and it was the scariest XC in my life: no landing options except of the black beach, all the way. I had no choice rather that doing triangle. Cacti are very motivating in keeping you in the air :)
don't forget all the plantations with the cables supporting the tarps on top of them 😬
Cool Review. See You soon back in the air!
wouch , commentary analysis very interesting & useful
Always sacrifice the legs to protect the important bits ❤
that's why I keep flying hang gliders. They are virtually "indestructible" like the t-shirt you're wearing, you don't remember it. Just focus on flying not the machine. Paragliding it's like having a live animal above your head that wants to kill you. Even with "defensive flying " blah blah, not rigid it's a HUGE problem. Have a nice recovery mate.
Great video ❤…kindly dedicate a video on the use of all the riser lines
what about dumping reserve and then continue to crash site or was he too low ?
Reserve takes longer to deploy in a straight flight. The 3 seconds he had were definitely not enough for it to be effective and he would have to stop controling the glider for a moment to throw it where he was already aiming at a tiny hope of safer crash. Good idea if the colapse turned into autorotation but in this case that was not an option in my opinion.
@@TheGrundigg in his convo he said he had 10 seconds from collapse to impact
Hi Greg, as you know bhpa instructors teach that if you have a big one under 500' first reaction should be reserve. I have seen someone have a big assymetric from 80' and a lighting quick throw and land on feet perfectly. Was it not worth asking the question? Speedy recovery to the pilot btw.
1) because paraglider pilots are often too proud to use reserve. 2) he probably thought he could recover from the asymmetric quicker.
just happened to me (last week in Italian Alps)... scratching along a cliff wall, 50% collapse, instantly lost 10m, reacted too slow to get out from the face and open the wing but quick enough to choose between a rock-slide and a sticky-out/spiky bush - took the bush, hung on, all OK - no injuries at all - phew but, bottom ripped out of my harness as I scraped across the rock-slide to the bush... which stopped a potential bouncy slide down the face. Worst was freeing my wing and climbing out of the trap (almost 3 hours) - wing & lines OK, took off, short flight down - post adrenaline beer.
You both are amazing pilots. Thank you for sharing 🍻🙏
I am not worthy to wash Andys feet but I have flown Taucho a bit. 45 degrees across on the top take off can be coming near from the back or at least along the side in the air. Local guides warn us feeble pilots to never cross the two gullies low as the first one rotors the second and I have been there enough to know they were right (yes I am that stupid). I think @pentachronic has a point about UK pilots going into this sort of terrain too low. But the good news is that Andy is OK and his mate is a solid bloke who should get free beer for life. Really good he shares this, top bloke, a speedy recovery.
The question is which conditions did you expect on the coomby left hand side with your amount of experience... .. .
hope everything turns good and a recovery with no problems !
You boys sure know how to have fun!!! 🤙🏼
Thanks a lot for the info. I wish you superTurbo recovery. You did a great job recovering.
This looks like a comparable crash to the one by written up Chris Williams ‘St Valentine’s Day Downfall’ (in April 2023 Skywings mag page 30.) Both accidents had a cross wind on launch from the left, with gullies and ridges to the left causing rotor and turbulence to some height above the ground. Wishing Andy a speedy and full recovery!
My thoughts too.
Greg, the question we all want an answer to is.... what's that beer you're drinking?!?
All the best Andy, hope you're back on your feet soon. Cheers boys!
Why did you release the R sided incipient spin?
Sounds facile but i suggest its the crux of your difficulties. Requested by previously paralysed by hostile terrain ~ 2000 hours mixed acro xc.
Thanks for this. It was interesting to hear that holding course and actually trying to turn away just after the collapse didn't seem a good option at the time because the open side was looking like it was peeling. I just wonder if after thinking back it was worth playing with that a bit longer and even if it goes, it should just nod forwards when you release and you are in no worse shape. If it spins a bit away from the terrain then happy days. It's just that for low collapses, course is number 1 on my list and I think I'm going to keep that in my plan, but my Alpina is very forgiving in this - at least in training - yet to have to really test this in very turbulent air where all bets are usually off. Easy to say from comfort of home of course :D
Interestingly I have just been watching and trying to get a theoretical grasp on the swoop/fly on the wall landings and it instantly came to mind as he was talking about a forced downwind landing.
How would someone (low to mid air timer) go about injecting some practice of that sort of landing or accelerating for a swoop ?
hop over to flywithgreg.com/ and join the mailing list, there's a free swoop landing video that will get you started
Greg have u ever had a bad crash - I’ve only be flying for a short time but summin I’m super scared of 🙈
Thank you for sharing your misfortune. I have flown in Tenerife for 10 weeks in winter and it looks so pleasant with sunshine, the landing on the beach, but landing elsewhere among, rock and cactus is another story...I almost died (video on UA-cam), because of a front collapse. God's hand saved me from any injury and I was so lucky. I still fly there but two of my friends crashed and the outcome was not very pleasant. Like you. I wish you the best possible recovery ! Fly safe all of you.
Hope u healed well
Mnggha
I cant handle this.
6 years of flying and if the best end up like this, I'm out.
I'll miss the flying but I won't miss the anxiety
Well said Greg. Yup if you learn anything from this give your self a safety margin. Well said. However there isn’t always a safety margin, when a crash happens. Just getting over an accident myself. 30 years in the game. Half that time as a pro. Spun, hit the ground. Broke back, shattered ankle and dislocated shoulder. 4 months later I’m pretty close to pulling up a wing again. Shit happens in Paragliders. That’s just how it is. I thought I was a safe pilot. We all muck up. I’ll certainly be less complacent near to the ground and keep a safety margin. Dead right on that one Greg One other thing you can do. Make sure you’re fit and that your body is strong. If you do crash, recovery is more likely. Best wishes Andy.
My take-off: not enough knowledge of the site, flying a CCC wing for leisure and a pinch of bad luck is a dangerous recipe!
Thanks great great info. Doombar puts everything right!!!lol. ❤
Uggh the tiger woods injury. You can almost see Greg wondering how he has stayed unharmed after all this time.
And there is no guarantee of safety taking off from a gentle hill and flying over a cow pasture or trees. Height is height.
I would guess the little valleys caused a rotor there. They look quite steep and 45 degrees across would be enough to do that if it was blowing at any speed.
Here's wishing you well Andy! Take it slow!
He crashed and was tied up in his Pod.!!!
But you can't say...
There are pods to be sold ....
It's what you want when you crash...
To be in safe Pod instead of having full movement of your legs...
I hope the mending is going well.
It'd be interesting to know if there is any margin for flying the Boomer? straight or maintaining a turn away from the collapse without inducing a stall.
he was flying his UP Guru, because it was just a holiday trip
@@FlyWithGreg Guru is still a CCC glider though, right? I feel like that had to have had a pretty big impact on why he got turned so hard.
Two fine gentlemen but the site is trecherous it is said.
Stay away from turbulent air.
I`ve been flying from that spot multiple trips. Your story do not reveal what went wrong..! You only discuss your foot!!