Lock Noob I highly recommend all serrated and work yourself down to standards it is much easier to learn that way :) It also makes a decent combo attack
Very cool, and great demonstration on that Kwikset! Also great to know one good reason for serrated KEY pins - always wondered about that actually. Thanks for making this 😊
I've had this explained to me, but never fully understood what was going on (never saw it demonstrated) until now. Thanks for this. You truly are a Helpful Lock Picker.
I was thinking the same thing! That definitely makes sense, because they're really not having much of an effect in other areas, there are no threaded chambers and you'd really have to over-set for the serrations to matter.
This technique was discussed in a book by Eddie the Wire. A further enhancement is to "tickle" the pins down with a rake, whilst releasing tension...... Gonna try this myself as I had forgotten about it. Thanks
I've accidentally discovered this technique before. Worked kind of on master lock. Had a pin or 2 I had to manually pick but it can help as does raking a false set
Thanks for checking it out! This works but it is tough to pull off. Maybe if you had a grimy old lock in the field it may work. If you do anything other than all serrated, it gets much harder. As a lock smith you probably do not SPP too many locks or do challenge locks but I found this is also a good little dirty trick for challenge locks if someone ever goes crazy with serrating the bible.
I have a Kwikset deadbolt and have used reverse picking on it and it works great with all standard pins. It is also called overlifting lock picking. have a good day.
Robert Clark it is an approach worth trying out, but, it does work much easier with all serrated. When I try to do it with all standards it is much more difficult. You can always finish the lock off with SPP or raking though
Great Video. I technique I've never tried or heard of. Super useful. Curious?= Are the key pins or driver pins usually modified? I always thought it was the key pins that were serrated, spooled, etc..?
Actually did this twice in the field. I'm just an apprentice but the boss was shocked. He'd never heard of this. Doesn't work often for me but it's a good quick try
Adam Edwards One thing I've noticed is most locksmiths do not have much more than a basic level skill for picking. Many don't know what top of keyway tension is, for example. Being locksmith is way, way more than picking locks but I've always found that interesting. Congrats on the success
Adam Edwards Yeah, I bet you shim a lot of locks for rekeying and rake more than SPP. I had to re-key a house the other day and took the lazy approach, pick one lock, decode, code cut key, and re-key. I am not a locksmith but I know a few and it is cool to see both sides :)
HelpfulLockPicker Lots of shimming lol. But the boss rakes and I SPP. I'm still usually faster haha. I can't reliably rake to save my life. Just do what you're good at
After watching this I tried it a couple of times on an American padlock I've never been able to get even close to opening. Just a couple of tries won't do it, but I can hear the pins fall louder than ever. I think it'll still be difficult because the first two pins fall so closely together that I haven't been able to get them to fall one at a time yet. But thanks for this, and all the other techniques I'm learning!
HelpfulLockPicker so I've heard, but I've been able to get as many as four individual clicks on mine as they drop, so if they aren't dropping all the way down past the key pins, maybe I can start with reverse, then finish with SPP? Or maybe I'm just dreaming because I'm a beginner. Either way, it's pretty great to hear the clicks anyway. Also, one may be a spool because I have felt the feedback I've learned about from you. In the end, I'll learn at least something. Hopefully it'll be a lot!
I see this is a year old, but, since you added the serrated pins, theres no comparison to the diameters of the original pins, your overlifting is putting the bind on the key pins, not the upper pins, the upper pins are most likely slightly larger then the key pins and therefore get blocked by the smaller gap left when the keypin drops, if the upper is smaller it will follow the keypin before you can reapply tension. Re-test with verified matching diameter upper and lower pins, then you will have possible way to open a lock. Great demo tho, it has possibilities when right conditions are present
I am not exactly sure what you mean when you think the key pins are binding and not be driver pins maybe I need to read it again thank you for checking out the video! This is a valid approach that is not always easy to pull off but certainly worth noting :-)
@@HelpfulLockPicker I didn't mean it didn't work, but the binding pin is the pin thats accross the shear line, by over lifting and then tensioning the core the binding has to be accross the key pins since they are between the core and the body of the lock, and as you release tension the key pin drops and the driver is blocked by the slightly oval shaped hole that is to small for the driver to fit. If you had a pin with a reduced diameter it would pass the shear line at same time the key pin dropped. The oval hole is the shape created as the core and body are rotated out of alignment. Binding the lock when not lifting any pins, binds on the driver since it is the pin blocking the shear line, which is how lock picking is possible, no binding, no picking. Try picking the newest version of the smartkey lock, and not sticking a wire over top of plug to bind side bar, " see lockpicking lawyers vid", just the normal tension wrench method, it cant be done since the bar binds on body and not on pins, no feedback thru pins, no way to know what is happening or hold a pin in place without any support. I have the different versions so i know how they work, along with lots of other locks which i have picked and made keys for most if they needed them, old and new. Merry Christmas
this is very cool, but a bit of a misnomer I think. overlifting is what comb picks do, this would be more of an oversetting but still a amazing skill you have with this technique
That would explain why I cannot seem to spp it, zip it, rake it, overlift the pins, bitch pick it etc. Any idea what technique is best to open it considering the wafers?
kylefreemason If it is any model past Gen 1 you probably won't be able to get it. Only a few people have picked those. When you apply tension can you find a binding wafer?
HelpfulLockPicker I can get core rotation just nothing beyond that. I will try getting core rotation and then use a med hook to see if anything is able to be set further. I always equated kwikset like master locks....junk. Atleast their design allows for brute force due to its internal complexity causing its weakness. As for a smartkey mounted on a door, ill have to try mica. I doubt it will work due to the trim that is mounted on the exterior side of a home to prevent access to the plunger exiting the lock into the plate.
On a smartkey deadbolt, if you peel the face off the cylinder housing, the lock screw holes are exposed and you can use a drill to back the screws out. If youre carefull peeling the face off with a small flathead, and you use a drill bit small enough to not contact the threads on the inside of the screw holes you can reassemble it with no sign of forced entry....
Horrible experience with Goso, please don’t buy from them, after a month I am still waiting what I paid for.Looks like a scum to me.Their customer service seems trained to make people waste time and Is not effective at all.There are better companies to buy from, surely avoid GOSO.
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Never saw or heard of this. It's the old use it's strengh as a weakness. AMAZING !!!!
Thanks for checking it out!
That's amazing! Never seen it anywhere either, and I've watched an awfull lot of theoric videos!
Thank you so much!
Really great technique. I’ve not been too successful doing this myself, but you have inspired me to give it a go again :-)
Lock Noob I highly recommend all serrated and work yourself down to standards it is much easier to learn that way :) It also makes a decent combo attack
Lock Noob broooooo... We meet again..... U ever got through with this? Been trying for the last two hours with no luck 🔒
I think the defiant tolerances might make this a more effective attack.
Very cool, and great demonstration on that Kwikset! Also great to know one good reason for serrated KEY pins - always wondered about that actually. Thanks for making this 😊
Thank you for the kind words and I am glad I was able to help you understand that better :-)
Great video! Im fairly new to this amazingly fun hobby, will try and master this at some point! Thanks a lot HLP , from over the pond in Scotland!
Thanks for checking it out, if you have any questions feel free to ask!
I've had this explained to me, but never fully understood what was going on (never saw it demonstrated) until now. Thanks for this. You truly are a Helpful Lock Picker.
Thank you for the kind words and I am glad it helps!
You are the Man!!! Thanks again, Sir.
Thanks for checking it out
I hadn’t heard of it before. I’m very new but I will be trying it.
Thanks for checking it out
BRILLIANT….I’LL TRY IT !
Any updates?
Thanks again
Always welcome
Very cool I've only been able to do this with a couple of locks
It's not the easiest thing to pull off but it is certainly a lot of fun :-)
Whoa! That seems pretty advanced and cool!
Thanks for checking it out!
This is why I don't worry about over-sets, just keep picking and the over-set key pin usually falls back down. Thank you for the video, HLP.
Been Pickin no problem, I'm glad to help. I do honestly wonder if this is partly why American Locks have serrated keypins though
I was thinking the same thing! That definitely makes sense, because they're really not having much of an effect in other areas, there are no threaded chambers and you'd really have to over-set for the serrations to matter.
Nice, gonna try it.
Thanks for checking it out!
Great video brother . Never heard of reverse picking but I can't wait to try it!
Thanks for checking it out!
I'd never thought of picking this way! That is absolutely fascinating, and I'm totally going to try it. :)
Sightless Senshi it is a really cool approach :-)
I used a similar principle, I always called over setting, and then using give and take tension they drop down. Never done an entire pin stack.
Thanks for sharing!
Very nice instructional, thanks for the information.
5qu1n7 no problem glad to help :-)
Wow, that's really a amazing skill you taught us
Thank you, this is always a fun trick to try!
Wow what an awsome technique thank you for the knowledge
Thank you for the kind words and checking it out!
This technique was discussed in a book by Eddie the Wire. A further enhancement is to "tickle" the pins down with a rake, whilst releasing tension...... Gonna try this myself as I had forgotten about it.
Thanks
Thanks for sharing!
Very
cool
Thanks for checking it out! It isn't something you see too often but it is a really cool technique!
I've accidentally discovered this technique before. Worked kind of on master lock. Had a pin or 2 I had to manually pick but it can help as does raking a false set
Zack M. Thanks for sharing! It does seem like it would be a good combo attack
Thank you
Thanks for checking out the video :-)
@@HelpfulLockPicker new to sport, where did you get the small wooden pin tray?
@@roastedbean1968 you can find it on Amazon just search for something like lab wooden pinning tray
Hi, just found your channel, really well done and excellent explaining. I’m a working Locksmiths and never tried that before.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for checking it out! This works but it is tough to pull off. Maybe if you had a grimy old lock in the field it may work. If you do anything other than all serrated, it gets much harder.
As a lock smith you probably do not SPP too many locks or do challenge locks but I found this is also a good little dirty trick for challenge locks if someone ever goes crazy with serrating the bible.
Nice trick!
David Kurtz thank you for the kind words!
I have a Kwikset deadbolt and have used reverse picking on it and it works great with all standard pins. It is also called overlifting lock picking. have a good day.
Thank you for sharing. You have a real skill. I have such a hard time doing it with standard pins. That is a cool lock that it binds just right
Been trying for half an hour and realise the tension thing is on the up side of the lock and succeeded minutes later, thanks btw :>
Bwush - Congrats on success!
Excellent video and explanation my friend!! =)
Frosty901 I'm glad you liked it :)
thank you ,finally open 2 locks
Nice work on the opens
This is new to me but I'll give a try and see if I can make it work.
Robert Clark it is an approach worth trying out, but, it does work much easier with all serrated. When I try to do it with all standards it is much more difficult.
You can always finish the lock off with SPP or raking though
Nice explanation buddy. Heard of it but need to try it out. Cheers.🍺✌
Don'z Lockz Thanks for checking it out. I have a few challenge locks to try this out on where people went too crazy with serrated pins and threading.
Great Video. I technique I've never tried or heard of. Super useful. Curious?= Are the key pins or driver pins usually modified? I always thought it was the key pins that were serrated, spooled, etc..?
Usually you only see spools on cheaper locks
Hey where can I get a rale ser and practice locks? So fun.
I don't understand
Would this technique also work for spool pins and what about if the lock had a mixture of standard and serrated/spool pins? Thanks
It is possible just all serrated make it a lot easier
Fellow Lefty!
Can you do the same for spool and serrated pins and or couple of standard pin in the mix. What you think
Juan Cabrales serrated pins is the easiest but it is possible to do with standard and spools it is just much more difficult
HelpfulLockPicker thanks for the tip
Actually did this twice in the field. I'm just an apprentice but the boss was shocked. He'd never heard of this. Doesn't work often for me but it's a good quick try
Adam Edwards One thing I've noticed is most locksmiths do not have much more than a basic level skill for picking. Many don't know what top of keyway tension is, for example.
Being locksmith is way, way more than picking locks but I've always found that interesting.
Congrats on the success
HelpfulLockPicker Thanks. I thankfully had the job basically fall in my lap not that long after I got into locksport. Fun to see it from both sides
Adam Edwards Yeah, I bet you shim a lot of locks for rekeying and rake more than SPP.
I had to re-key a house the other day and took the lazy approach, pick one lock, decode, code cut key, and re-key.
I am not a locksmith but I know a few and it is cool to see both sides :)
HelpfulLockPicker Lots of shimming lol. But the boss rakes and I SPP. I'm still usually faster haha. I can't reliably rake to save my life. Just do what you're good at
I rake a Schlage Mortise everytime, lol. I do my fair share of bumping as well.
What about spools?
Serrated is what makes it through easiest
After watching this I tried it a couple of times on an American padlock I've never been able to get even close to opening. Just a couple of tries won't do it, but I can hear the pins fall louder than ever. I think it'll still be difficult because the first two pins fall so closely together that I haven't been able to get them to fall one at a time yet. But thanks for this, and all the other techniques I'm learning!
This is hard to do on an American Lock because they have serrated keypins so it's hard to get them to drop back down
HelpfulLockPicker so I've heard, but I've been able to get as many as four individual clicks on mine as they drop, so if they aren't dropping all the way down past the key pins, maybe I can start with reverse, then finish with SPP? Or maybe I'm just dreaming because I'm a beginner. Either way, it's pretty great to hear the clicks anyway. Also, one may be a spool because I have felt the feedback I've learned about from you. In the end, I'll learn at least something. Hopefully it'll be a lot!
wow, so your a wizard! to say im impressed is an understatement! now ive seen everything!
charles klein it's a hard technique to pull of but when it works, it works!
Have you tried reverse picking using spool keypins with serrated driver
I would imagine the spooled keypins would get stuck and make it harder. But, no, two years later and I still haven't :)
Cool
Thank you for checking it out
WOW
Thanks for checking it out!
I see this is a year old, but, since you added the serrated pins, theres no comparison to the diameters of the original pins, your overlifting is putting the bind on the key pins, not the upper pins, the upper pins are most likely slightly larger then the key pins and therefore get blocked by the smaller gap left when the keypin drops, if the upper is smaller it will follow the keypin before you can reapply tension.
Re-test with verified matching diameter upper and lower pins, then you will have possible way to open a lock.
Great demo tho, it has possibilities when right conditions are present
I am not exactly sure what you mean when you think the key pins are binding and not be driver pins maybe I need to read it again thank you for checking out the video! This is a valid approach that is not always easy to pull off but certainly worth noting :-)
@@HelpfulLockPicker
I didn't mean it didn't work, but the binding pin is the pin thats accross the shear line, by over lifting and then tensioning the core the binding has to be accross the key pins since they are between the core and the body of the lock, and as you release tension the key pin drops and the driver is blocked by the slightly oval shaped hole that is to small for the driver to fit. If you had a pin with a reduced diameter it would pass the shear line at same time the key pin dropped. The oval hole is the shape created as the core and body are rotated out of alignment.
Binding the lock when not lifting any pins, binds on the driver since it is the pin blocking the shear line, which is how lock picking is possible, no binding, no picking.
Try picking the newest version of the smartkey lock, and not sticking a wire over top of plug to bind side bar, " see lockpicking lawyers vid", just the normal tension wrench method, it cant be done since the bar binds on body and not on pins, no feedback thru pins, no way to know what is happening or hold a pin in place without any support.
I have the different versions so i know how they work, along with lots of other locks which i have picked and made keys for most if they needed them, old and new.
Merry Christmas
Never heard about it but dadgum it's good to have another tool that don't need to squeeze into my pocket case hahaaa
It is hard to do but really fun when pulled off. Thanks for checking it out
this is very cool, but a bit of a misnomer I think. overlifting is what comb picks do, this would be more of an oversetting but still a amazing skill you have with this technique
Thank you for sharing
Great tutorial! Would this be cheating in Lock Sport?
I mean open is open
I mean, technically you're setting one pin at a time, should be good, unless their is specific language that each pin must be "lifted" one at a time.
Have you tried this with spool pins?
Ken Nixon I have not experimented with it a great deal but from my experience spool pins we're a lot more susceptible than standard pins
really cool! unfortunately, not an option in europe/with european locks.
Der Bewn thanks for the kind words :-)
I tried this with a kwikset smartkey lock...so far no luck :D
That would explain why I cannot seem to spp it, zip it, rake it, overlift the pins, bitch pick it etc. Any idea what technique is best to open it considering the wafers?
kylefreemason If it is any model past Gen 1 you probably won't be able to get it. Only a few people have picked those.
When you apply tension can you find a binding wafer?
HelpfulLockPicker I can get core rotation just nothing beyond that. I will try getting core rotation and then use a med hook to see if anything is able to be set further. I always equated kwikset like master locks....junk. Atleast their design allows for brute force due to its internal complexity causing its weakness. As for a smartkey mounted on a door, ill have to try mica. I doubt it will work due to the trim that is mounted on the exterior side of a home to prevent access to the plunger exiting the lock into the plate.
LockPickingLawyer said that you pick it like it is a pin tumbler sidebar lock
On a smartkey deadbolt, if you peel the face off the cylinder housing, the lock screw holes are exposed and you can use a drill to back the screws out. If youre carefull peeling the face off with a small flathead, and you use a drill bit small enough to not contact the threads on the inside of the screw holes you can reassemble it with no sign of forced entry....
I think revers picking is a good idea when u can use it but sadly a lot of locks are wise to it thanks stiglocks..r
Thanks for checking it out!
U pick lock more often in open that close
Thanks
LOL what a nightmare if the lock then are placed upside down!?
Its certainly a fun thing to play with!
Horrible experience with Goso, please don’t buy from them, after a month I am still waiting what I paid for.Looks like a scum to me.Their customer service seems trained to make people waste time and Is not effective at all.There are better companies to buy from, surely avoid GOSO.
I like mine