The irony is all the NIMBY businessman who begged for the ELs to be torn down...most of those businesses lost their customers and shut down (See 3rd Ave El and Myrtle/Jamaica El articles). Well deserved Karma. Busses are a poor to laughable replacement for rapid rail transit.
Not really. Buses can go anywhere. Here in Pittsburgh we have busways and the buses can go on there and miss all the traffic. Bit then they can also get off and go on regular roads and get you closer to where you need to go.
This may be the best JTA video yet, it feels like I’m watching a documentary from Smithsonian or National Geographic with the music, interviews (we got a surprising face reveal) and everything.
I'm a locomotive engineer for Metro-North, if you ever have any railroad questions just reach out! I also ran freight trains in New Jersey and Staten Island.
What are your thoughts on a rail connection to Staten Island? Aside from the obvious one connecting the SIRR to the NYC Subway by tunneling under the Verrazano Bridge, maybe utilizing the old North Shore Line to create a connection to Bayonne or Elizabeth.
@ there is currently a rail connection via the Arthur Kill lift bridge, but it remains in the up position and only lowers for freight rail traffic 2 times a day. The channel is so busy that it must stay up. I think it’s not really that necessary for a passenger rail connection because the ferry is there. I however think they should expand the freight network.
I was at the meeting where the 1986 MTA proposed to shut down the White Plains #2 line north of 180th St and replace it with buses.. The venue in the Bronx where the meeting was held was packed to overflowing capacity with outraged people demanding the El to remain. The first words the officials uttered at the meet was that the El will be untouched. And they had to repeat themselves before the angry crowd.
@@hhvictor2462 What MTA should’ve done was rebuilt the crossover junction north of 180th Street and Built a proper flying Junction than anything. Same with rebuilding Myrtle Av Broadway. Build an actually proper flying junction…
@@TiagoGomez-hb9te There was short lived movement early 1980s called "planned shrinkage" which basically means all services reduced to cut costs based on fake stats. I don't believe the MTA was in a mood to build anything at that time. Btw the authors of that scheme later disowned it.
In 1970; Bronx local business owners and politicians, had a meeting at our local high school. Amazingly they were urging, local citizens and graduating students, to support their stupid idea of tearing down the third avenue El. This at a time when the ridership of the third avenue l was reaching an old-time high again. It shows, who had the real influence, (the local politicians and business owners, who had businesses, under the 3rd avenue El), and saw to the demolition of the third avenue El. The public did not want the demolition of the Third avenue El.
They wanted to shutdown the #5 line north of East 180 St as well in the late 80’s. The MTA claimed that there were stations that were in disrepair and there was no money to repair them. Plus, there was low ridership on the Dyre Avenue line. Under protest, 3 stations on the line (Baychester Ave, Gun Hill Rd, and Morris Park) were all renovated in the early 90’s and the shutdown never happened.
As a chicago native, I prefer riding an elevated like over a subway The views alone make it worthwhile A modern elevated system with enclosed platforms would be awesome
As a Chicago native, one of the problems with the L (especially in the Loop and River North) is that has the yoke of “Landmark Status.” We unfortunately cannot replace the El in the downtown core with quieter concrete L structures and viaducts used on the Orange Line and Newer parts of the Red Line. The worst blunder in the 1990s rehabilitation of the Green Line was keeping it a steel structure above East 63rd. Should’ve been replaced with concrete.
@@bkark0935No. That's not a mistake at all. They can still put "floating" tracks on the steel viaducts. An example of this is the Berlin U1 line. Where the viaduct is strong enough, they can even put an entire concrete *slab* to for the track deck, which was done right here in America in Philadelphia on the Frankford side of the Market-Frankford Line. Chigago just cheaped out on putting rubber isolators under the ties, similar to engine mounts in automobiles to reduce in noise and vibration.
@@robertewalt7789changing is not the same as ruining - the loop is probably the single most iconic aspect of Chicago, even though it’s monolithic, old, and very noisy.
Yes, I honestly feel that elevated lines don't get enough love due to how notoriously noisy they are. But truly I believe the benefits of els rule out the noise problem.
We all need to come together as people and convince/ persuade the mta to get these important projects started, this will definitely b beneficial to all commuters. We need to turn dreams into reality
Great Video! Please continue being vocally supportive of a proper IBX connection to 74th St/Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Ave station. Like the tunnel you proposed with a station underneath 73rd st, under the QBL platform.
Great video! Two requests: A: Please use your video camera to record voice overs. The sound quality is superior as compared to what you are using for the voice overs B: If possible, always prioritize audio when doing interviews. If you are on a limited bandwidth, set the video to a potato slideshow to ensure full audio quality. Or better, do the interview with a low quality while both ends record locally with high quality, and afterwards transfer the high quality recording and sync them up and whatnot in editing.
Then WE, New York City (a shot of John Hancock Center in Chicago) CAN DO IT! I assume he was gonna mention Chicago in the list of the cities that can do it :)
I just came across this channel. These videos are incredibly well edited. I was aware of the separate transit authorities which existed long ago but didn't know intricacies such as why the IND was introduced. Thanks. Subscription added.
Face reveal! 😊 I didn't know you were of East Asian heritage; I had always perceived you as a US native-born Irish American townie from Boston. And Mr. Vanshnookenraggen appeared, too, presenting an update for Queenslink. I hope Queenslink gets built even if the foundations and concrete pylons are built first under a Queensway project.
Third ave in the Bronx is in need of a rapid transit line to replace the old line that was removed in the early 70s express buses along the original route still has the buses on surface streets, the el didn’t get stuck in this traffic. A rebuilding of the el at the time was impossible because the city was in financial trouble and removed the line to save money by not having to maintain a line that wasn’t built to heavy duty standards.
Lots of great history and footage here--thank you! I would be interested to know more about support for Queenslink. I was under the impression that the parks proponents were winning and the hope for reactivating the rail line was diminishing.
I love elevated trains. It gives so much personality to a city. I really love walking around Chicago and seeing all those trains rumbling. There is noise, yes, but it's not as bad as you might think. And you actually get used to it. My cousins live in a house really, really close to an el station that runs 24 hours a day, and when I stayed it wasn't terrible. Plus today glass can do marvelous things to mitigate a lot of the noise. I hope nyc goes that route and brings back new el routes.
I live next to the elevated M at Myrtle-Wyckoff. The line runs over Myrtle from Broadway where it joins the J/Z. The city has been deplorable in maintaining the infrastructure and it took lots of community effort in Bushwick to get the MTA to look at all the lead paint chipping off of the el and turning to dust over time. Come look at the "fix" along Myrtle. I'm unsure of what the next stage will be, but all lines need to have preventive maintenance scheduled and budgeted as non-negotiables.
I live in Chicago where out of our 146 CTA rapid transit stations, only 21 are underground. The rest are either elevated or at grade level. The reason for this, I have read, is mostly due to cost. It is just less expensive to construct at grade or over ground than to dig a tunnel. The downside to something like this in Chicago is several, at least in my opinion. One is the noise generated by these trains which often run late into the evening. Another is the harsh winter climate. Yes, the above ground stations do often contain heating lamps but they do little to mitigate the brutal cold when the wind is blowing and it is 20 below zero. I am fortunate to reside next to one of the 21 subway stations on the CTA and my main stop for work is also underground. But I have access to the brown line which is all above grade too. During really bad weather I can see the benefit to the subway.
Can you make a video about how to improve the airport connections in NYC? Let’s say Queenslink is built out so you can run the M down to the Rockaways, wouldn’t it make sense to also run a branch to JFK taking over the AirTrain? Extension to LaGuardia, Newark etc. Great video btw!
I think most of the NYC airport commentary have been covered by other UA-camrs. I think you don't really need the M to take over the AirTrain. Most other systems make people get off a particular station, and take an airport people mover into a specific terminal. That is what the JFK AirTrain is. Though maybe you can integrate the LIRR with the AirTrain. But that is far in the future.
I wish the city bought the part of the NYWB between Hunts Point Ave and E 180th St and turned that into a shuttle, the Sheridan Shuttle, connecting the 2 and 5 trains with the 6 train in The Bronx.
Interesting, I had no idea QueensLink was a thing, only had heard of the making it a trail, which a rail line would definitely would be more beneficial and functional than another park. Queens badly needs more north-south train options. Thanks to the people pushing for it
@@jointransitassociation OHHHH I didnt even realize I thought it was just a huge gap between intervale ave and Melrose Also btw what are your thoughts on a Metro North Penn Access station at Astoria Blvd to connect with the N/W (or R with Deinterling) and the M60 sbs bus I really like this since it would allow Astoria and LGA (especially with an Astoria extension THAT MUST HAPPEN) and allow eastern bronx residents into northwestern queen and heavily developed and gentrifying neighborhood of Astoria
Just a (few) Station in Manhattan are Above ground..and the Reason is part if Broadway [number 1 line] go down..so the train is Above Ground..and in Staten Island the train run at Street Level...
Goodnight sir . And thank-you once again for making us another awesome video sir. And yes that would've if the MTA would've go ahead Build more Elevated Subway and Commuter Railroad lines throughout the city. It would cut down on cost on the transit projects then creating a tunnel. Witch will cost alot more to build and create more traffic along the neighborhoods of the construction sir. Like IBX line. The MTA should've go ahead with Queenslink and not Queensway. Due to the connection to Airtrain at Howard Beach ⛱️ . Queenslink will cut Subway rides commute down by 10 or 15 minutes. The A train line has to travel through Brooklyn before it reaches Manhattan and Queenslink just continues straight through Queens to Manhattan sir. Also thanks for stepping on camera sir. 📷
Another aspect as to why elevated trains have appeal again is cost. When the Second Avenue Subway is running $2 BILLION/mile suddenly an elevated, pre-cast line doesn't sound or look too terrible doesn't it? I'm in Edmonton and the new Valley Line West project will be running at least two sections elevated including the station at West Edmonton Mall, formerly the world's largest shopping centre and the OG project from Triple Five owners of American Dream Mall aka Project Xanadu... In fact the pre-cast beams were built and elevated in a few months while the rest of the line at grade is taking forever. Ironic that simple street-running sections have now become the most problematic for both the contractors as well as the communities affected by construction rather than its elevated, pre-cast pier-beam sections...
The 8 Third Avenue elevated line will deffenitly be elevated in the south Bronx Gun Hill road Webster central Avenue clearmont . Never rebuilt another elevated line in Manhattan again. They are deffenitly studying rebuilding the brand new third Avenue elevated line back over the cross Bronx Express highway it will not have to make to much noises anymore. Keep mentioning about the extra subway elevated lines that had no business tearing down .
It was wrong to remove 3rd and 2nd Avenue L's. At least 2nd Avenue L should have been kept. On East Side, we now have very crowded Lexington Line and very slow busses due to congestion. 2nd Avenue Subway will not be built in East Side Midtown and Downtown.
Chicago is the king of the elevated lines. Anytime there is a suggestion to tear down an elevated line...it's been shouted down. Now we have an extension coming to one of our longest lines and it will be elevated...the Red line will be extended to very edge of the southside of the city.
Great video tbh the IBX should be extended one stop towards a new station at 50 street near 25 ave to connect the ibx to the Penn station portion of the New Haven line so people can get a ride from bay ridge all the way to New Haven how about that that will be a game changer
My philosophy is that if it possible to be built underground, it should be built underground. However, if it is not possible due to geography, cost, etc, build it elevated. I'd rather have it elevated than non-existent. Street running should be avoided whenever possible.
Manhattan is too dense for that with some many buildings and connection between Manhattan and the outer boroughs is difficult as infrastructure of bridges such as Brooklyn bridge and Queensboro bridge wouldn't be able to handle newer cars, the ones that were introduce in the 60s and so on starting with the R32 s as subway cars underwent changes in their design, structure and specifications would take it's toll on the existing infrastructure and the Manhattan bridge and the section of the BMT Jamaica line are perfect examples.
@@durece100 ck yes! Even elevated "tunnels" are used to sound-proof in other cities by creating sound barriers around the tracks. It also helps weather proof them from rain, snow and nice too! An added benefit...
Is the stock footage of Chicago at 24:59 meant to emphasize that a city can indeed have a love-hate relationship with Els? Because Chicago's Els are very antiquated and not at all modern.
I'm an agent for PATH, I've been in love with trains since I was five years old, I've grew up riding trains including the MTA NYC Subway trains as (7) Train is my favorite line, and I'm for the Congestion Pricing. I do hope that the MTA does revisit the following projects since Congestion Pricing is fully implemented for the next MTA 2030-2034 Capital Plan. 1. Proposal of the Astoria Line (N), (W), extension to/from LaGuardia Airport in Queens. 2. Study the Queenslink subway in Queens. 3. Extend the (Q) Line to/from 125th Street at Broadway to provide a transfer to the (1) Train in Manhattan. 4. Extend the (4) train from Utica Avenue to/from Avenue U (Kings Plaza) in Brooklyn. 5. Extend the (1) to/from 261st Street-Riverdale in The Bronx. 6. Extend the (D) train to/from Co-Op City in The Bronx. 7. Extend the (J/Z) trains to/from Belmont Park-Bay Ridge in Queens. 8. Extend the (E) train to/from Rosedale in Queens. 9. Reinstate the (K) Train from 207th Street Inwood-Ozone Park Lefferts Boulevard to replace the (A) Train to better streamline the IND Lines. 10. Reinstate the (H) Train as Rockaway 116th Street-Broad Channel & Selective Rush Hour Express Service to/from 42nd Street Port Authority Bus Terminal (Lower Level) to replace the selected (A) Train (Rush Hour). 11. Extend the (G) Train to/from Jamaca-Parsons/Archer in Queens to/from Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue in Brooklyn. 12. Extend the (R) Train to/from Jamaca-179th Street in Queens. 13. (W) Train as a via Astoria Peak Express in Queens. 14. Peak Express between Jay Street/MetroTech & W. 8th Street-Aquarium in Brooklyn. 15. Extend the (3) Train from New Lots Avenue to/from Gateway Center in Brooklyn. 16. Reinstate the (9) Train as a peak skip stop service & extend to/from Waldo Avenue next to the yard in The Bronx. 17. Extend the (7) Train to/from 20th Avenue-College Point in Queens, 18. New (8) Subway Line to align the (7) Train Line to extend to/from 154th Street/Northern Boulevard in Queens. 19. Extend the Rush Hour Selected (W) Train via Sea Beach Line Express as a Peak Express in Brooklyn. 20. Simplify the (Z) Peak Express Train serving between Chambers Street-City Hall in Manhattan & Jamaca-Parsons/Archer in Queens to replace the selected (J) Peak Express Trains. 21. Reconstruct the Sea Beach Line Express Tracks into CBTC & reconstruct the Peak Express Stop Stations at New Utrecht Avenue Station to transfer the (D) Train & Kings Highway Station in Brooklyn. 22. Extend the proposal (T) train from Hanover Square to align with the (J/Z) Trains in Manhattan to/from 9th Avenue Station (Lower Level) to transfer the (D) Train in Brooklyn. 23. Reconstruct the Chambers Street-City Hall Station, Canal Street, & Bowery Street on the (J/Z) line abandon platforms. 24. Reinstate the (V) Train serving between Forest Hills in Queens, align the (G) Crosstown Line, construct section between Bedford Nostrand Avs Station to/from Franklin Avenue (Shuttle Station), to/from Prospect Park as a two track, and terminate at Brighten Beach in Brooklyn to replace the Franklin Avenue (Shuttle Train). 25. Construct a passageway between 63rd Street/Lexington Avenue (F)/(Q) Station & 59th Street (N), (R), (W), (6) Station to provide better transfer without having to exit the station to use the MetroCard/OMNY Card to re-enter the station. 26. Reconstruct the abandon 42nd Street Port Authority Bus Terminal Lower Level in Manhattan. 27. Reconstruct the Bergen Avenue & Carroll Street (F)/(G) Station (Lower Level) as an express stop station in Brooklyn. 28. Reconstruct a passageway on Marcy Avenue (J), (M), (Z) Station for better transfer to connect the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza Bus Terminal in Brooklyn. 29. Reconstruct a passageway between Queensboro Plaza (N), (W), (7) Station & Queens Plaza (E), (M), (R) Station in Queens to provide better transfers without having to leave the station to re-enter the station by using the MTA MetroCard/OMNY Card. 30. Reconstruct a passageway between 34th Street Penn Station (1), (2), (3) & 34th Street Herald Square Station (B), (D), (F), (M), (N), (Q), (R), (W), and to connect the 33rd Street PATH Station Terminal without having to exit the street level in Manhattan.
Replace the A train?! Hell to the no! The A train is thr MTA's flagship service; this is the train that made the entire subway system famous, and you want it eliminated?!
@CraigFThompson the only (A) Train branch should remain Is the Inwood 207th-Far Rockaway Mott Street which I never said that branch to be eliminated at all and the (A) Train branch for the Inwood 207th-Ozone Park Lefferts Blvd line should be rebrand as the (K) to simplify the IND line ID if that makes sense.
@@CraigFThompson it's interesting you brought it up, because back in the 1990s the C train used to service the Rockaway Peninsula which was discontinued, good gesture too extended to'from Ozone Park Lefferts Boulevard and have the (A) as the Flag Carrier train to/from Far Rockaway, but there's a UA-cam video based on that and I believe that would require additional reconstruction on the interlocking at Euclid Avenue which would be very expensive to execute.
I have a question of the IBX can you transfer to it from the Q train for free if not then it not good because of only have 2 transfer. for example you take the subway to the IBX then take a bus and hope is doesn’t take 2 fare or 3 fare
I'm pretty sure there would be free transfers on the IBX, even though it would be out of system. The MTA is probably going to implement a tap in, tap out system with OMNY, and when someone taps out, that is where you can have a free transfer.
@ what if you transfer from the subway to the IBX and then a bus wouldn’t that count as three transfer not two anymore. Then that go over the one free transfer and then you have to paid a second fare!
I know it's not the most important consideration, but I really wish they could make the concrete viaducts more aesthetically interesting. They're so drab and "Modernist." Obviously, the old elevated tracks had functional issues, especially the noise. But at least they had character. NYC, of all cities in the US, should build things with character. Living in DC, I don't mind the Brutalist architecture of the underground Metro stations. It's part of their charm, I suppose. And the Downtown area has plenty of Brutalist buildings for that style to tie into. But carried outside and into the suburbs, all of the above ground tracks and facilities are the visual equivalent of a mid-Century strip mall or a Texas freeway overpass. Just ugly and sad, even when brand new (see: the Silver Line expansion).
I feel that the best way is what was presented. Reusing old, slightly used, already built El's. Barring a radically new technology, the old El's came with support beams that stood on the street. Since they were spaced every 50 ft or so, the use of those locations were impacted. We forget this. I believe that the old Lexington ave - In Brooklyn, yeah - was torn down sooner that it might have been, partially because of all of the obstructions that support beams had on walking and other quality of life issues. Wayyy older way of building it but nevertheless will still obstruct ground level activities. Best way is to reuse what was already built IMHO.
Surprised no one compares the west end of Market Frankfurt Line in Philly it's cost analysis and what could be done with modern ELS from that perspective. In 2010 they tore down a 100 year old EL, replaced 3 miles and six stations for under 1 billion, stations included. Similar for the northern half with some mishaps due to cost cutting. This method could daylight the SAS from midtown to lower manhattan and take up only 1 lane of 7 on that avenue.
Yeah concrete els are very quite. We desperately need the N/W extension to LaGuardia. Maybe Broadway will finally get the respect it deserves. (We need R160s back on the N/W) Also if that happens, still keep the R on Forest Hills, and N/W. The N would be better for Airport users and the W provides filler without needing too much trains.
Elevated trains are more economical to build. Viaducts level the line and if there are floods, the patrons are dry; why Chicago went up. NYC has a high water table, so a no brainer.
Good video. However, a subway / elevated extension needs to be built to Staten Island to connect the SIR, with the rest of NYC. When the Verrazano Narrows Bridge was in the design phase, the BMT Forth Ave Subway was originally supposed to come to Staten Island. But Robert Moses said NO to this idea. In the 1920's, there were two provisions to bring the Subway to Staten Island. The first one was a "spur" from the 59th St 4th Ave station on the current N & R line to Staten Island. Then the Forth Ave Line's southern terminal was moved from 86th Street, to 95th Street 4th Ave. This would have connected with the Staten Island Railroad with the now defunct East Shore Line.
An El that is needed: LaGuardia Airport connection to the N/W subway. Astoria/Ditmars residents might try to NIMBY it, but with continuously welded rail and modern quieter trains, it should be built.
To be clear, projects like the “inter borough express”, “penn station access” for metro north and “queens link” are not exactly “building elevated train lines” so much as they are using existing rail infrastructure, most of which is either below ground in open trenches, at or just above ground level or above ground but not a true “elevated rail line” (above a street along a significant portion of its route).
I get what you are saying, but I still lump them into the story of elevated because the trains are still very much visible, and have the same problems as els. In fact, residents along the Bay Ridge Branch have complained about the noise of freight trains since forever. So conventional wisdom tells us that they too will block the IBX, because why would back another train going by every 5 minutes? Except they didn't. Also, the Rockaway Beach Branch has not seen service since 1962, so at this point, it likely have to be a new elevated line. The right of way needs to be completely rebuilt. Finally, the definition of an "el" has morphed so much that I don't think it needs to be over the street. Most of the L's in the Chicago L do not run above streets, but rather above alleyways. In fact, the South Side L was nicknamed the Alley L because it was built above numerous alleyways.
The MTA should SERIOUSLY consider restoring the Third Avenue EL line in the Bronx by connecting it to the 2nd Ave line (Q). The Bronx portion would emerge over a bridge into the Bronx and proceed as an El, just like the historic Third Avenue EL line once did. Service is sorely needed in that corridor of the Bronx. It is evident due to the population boom in that area of the Bronx. And also evident by the late and super crowded buses that replaced the El and cause platform and service congestion at the Third Avenue & 149 St Station & 2/5 lines. This is a no-brainer.
As one living in vancouver (yay for shouting us out 24:56), if it werent for the skytrain, i wouldntve been intereted in transit, so i made a list of things in mind on my first medium article on discussing to others how to build good aerial metros and why theyre better: the space between the building and the viaduct should be wider than the width of the whole viaduct to allow the least amount of obstruction; planners should advertising it as a way to view the city as youre riding, most of the times on a given corridor youre on the train. even if you wanna walk, if u make mockups (using prev point) its not that bad anyway; use concrete instead of steel, and maybe add some soundproofing; cheaper; easier for cars to see how faster trains are; reply anything i missed
I don't why they are proposing IBX without restoring G train service back to Forest Hills. Also there needs to be a crosstown express that goes from the Bronx into Brooklyn.
The G to Forest Hills isn't a good idea. A preliminary look at employment data shows that QBL residents are not going to Brooklyn, but rather Manhattan, while Crosstown residents are also going to Manhattan. It has been that way since forever. Also, excessively interlining the G on QBL would forever hardwire the garbage frequencies seen on the M and R trains. You also can't take one train away for the G because that will lead to severe overcrowding on Manhattan bound services. Anyone who took QBL during the 80s and 90s will tell you that. I do agree that we should extend the IBX to the Bronx though.
@@jointransitassociationthat wouldn't be a problem if the MTA did the 63rd street connector was properly built, in terms of reviving the super express two track line, the first option was the best one because it retains the four current services and add a extra service on the 63rd street connector and the connection to/from the QBL south of 36 and the super express have to be grade separate and the platform for the transfer at Queens Plaza would have to be built east of the junction or have the 21st Street Queensbridge connect instead while the split off would be built east of it. The only her plans in the 80s and 90s include an extension past 179 to Springfield Blvd and a Jewel Avenue branch which would have helped with the QBL where one local train would serve the transit desert in Ally Pond Park and the other can take either 179 or Archer while 53rd provides extra service and 63rd 24/7. Because of how the 63rd is poorly executed, we end with a current service that is not handle very well
As a lifelong east Flatbush Brooklyn resident I’m dying to see this Utica av line completed but I’m 35 now, if life sphere maybe by 60 it will b completed🫠
I don’t see the city building El’s anytime soon. New projects like inter-boro and penn station are being done on existing rail lines to avoid that public pushback. I’m all for trains. Hopefully the 2nd ave line gets finished.
I understand that sentiment, but I don't think a new el going over a railroad right of way means much. Especially when people along the line have complained about freight trains since forever. So, by extending that logic, why would these same people back another train line going by every 5 minutes? At least those freight trains only come by every few hours. So, there should be a huge backlash towards the IBX, and there was for a brief moment, but that went away.
If the Flushing part of the 7 line were elevated, it would’ve made it exponentially easier to extend to Bayside if they want to in the following decades.
Very interesting. You have the potential to become to NYC Transit history, present and future what what Jago Hazzard is to London's transit system. Check out his channel and you will see what I mean.
Can confirm that Jago Hazzard is a very accomplished UA-camr. Most of his content is London-based (and of that mostly the Underground network) but he often branches out to other transport-related content. He has a particular style and in fact many commenters say they are not particularly interested in railways but find his output interesting and enjoyable.
I disagree strongly with the narrator's view that everyone hated the els. The Third Avenue El was particularly loved by many and missed still by those of us who remember it so fondly from our youth. I suspect its misguided demise had far more to do with greedy developers and politicians than by its supposed obsolescence. It is no coincidence that the el's demolition was followed by the widespread replacement of working class housing with gargantuan shiny new buildings marketed to the wealthy. Had it survived the mid-century iconoclasts, it might have survived to be cherished like the Chicago Loop which remains a pleasure to ride on. Otherwise, thank you for the video. Though I no longer live in NY, the proposals sound wonderful.
Every El line senselessly and foolishly demolished in Manhattan and in the outer boros over the decades ought to be rebuilt. Make New York City Great Again!
@@hhvictor2462 Manhattan doesn’t need ELs. The Subways made the ELs obsolete and are way more efficient than the ELs. They just need 2nd Avenue to be Quad Track and extend some Subway lines like the L and the 7… The Bronx, Brooklyn and especially Queens meanwhile are transit desserts. Like no N/W trains to LaGuardia Airport or 3 or L trains to JFK? No LIRR to JFK or Coney Island? No E train to Springfield Gardens or Green Acres Mall and no F, J, and 7 trains extended down to the borders of Queens? Come on now! G train also badly needs to be extended to Queens…
@@TiagoGomez-hb9te Long annoying train backup/delays during morning rush at the major subway stations like Grand Central, Times Square, 14th ST and other express stops Yeah, Manhattan need those El lines desperately.The outer boro lines must run into Manhattan anyway.
Noise has nothing to do with riding the trains. The ONLY problem was you have to climb 50 steps to reach the elevated train platform. Those steps delete elderly, disabled, parents with strollers from riding the train. So the raised trains lose 30% of riders before the raised trains are even built.
Subways have just as many stairs as els, and if you’re building new lines it’s at least as easy, probably easier, to add elevators to el stations vs subway stations
@@bobainsworth5057it's light rail and not a subway, one of the problems in trying to do the subway and the rail is the existing tunnel between Wilson and Atlantic, even utilizing an existing station to create a transfer point at Broadway Junction is difficult
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The irony is all the NIMBY businessman who begged for the ELs to be torn down...most of those businesses lost their customers and shut down (See 3rd Ave El and Myrtle/Jamaica El articles). Well deserved Karma. Busses are a poor to laughable replacement for rapid rail transit.
Bingo
Miss the Jamaica el it would help me a lot the Jamaica avenue bus line comes every hour it seems
Not really. Buses can go anywhere. Here in Pittsburgh we have busways and the buses can go on there and miss all the traffic. Bit then they can also get off and go on regular roads and get you closer to where you need to go.
@@412StepUpThis is NYC. Traffic is everywhere
Bus ways are hard to make in the city
This may be the best JTA video yet, it feels like I’m watching a documentary from Smithsonian or National Geographic with the music, interviews (we got a surprising face reveal) and everything.
Thanks!
It does feel like watching a documentary
I'm a locomotive engineer for Metro-North, if you ever have any railroad questions just reach out! I also ran freight trains in New Jersey and Staten Island.
What are your thoughts on a rail connection to Staten Island? Aside from the obvious one connecting the SIRR to the NYC Subway by tunneling under the Verrazano Bridge, maybe utilizing the old North Shore Line to create a connection to Bayonne or Elizabeth.
Is it fun
Do you guys have work rules I’m a locomotive engineer for the LIRR and I might wanna switch one day
@ there is currently a rail connection via the Arthur Kill lift bridge, but it remains in the up position and only lowers for freight rail traffic 2 times a day. The channel is so busy that it must stay up. I think it’s not really that necessary for a passenger rail connection because the ferry is there. I however think they should expand the freight network.
Did you operate trains for csx.
Mayor Adams needs to go. Queensway needs to go.
Queenslink needs to be built. Asap. 💯
We need that Queenslink, Say No to Queensway
Agreed. Nobody wants Queensway but Adams and his NIMBY friends.
As a MTA employee I agree!!! Give the people what they need. Expand and fix this system!!
@@leonjohnson1824 Boo Queensway! Go Queenslink!!! That area doesn't need a knock off high line.
I'll love to see More Elevated lines, Queenslink, Utica Av Subway, SAS, Southeast Queens, Subway to SI, and Better Frequency on the Subway
I like how this setup. No more hiding behind the voice
Fr
I was at the meeting where the 1986 MTA proposed to shut down the White Plains #2 line north of 180th St and replace it with buses.. The venue in the Bronx where the meeting was held was packed to overflowing capacity with outraged people demanding the El to remain. The first words the officials uttered at the meet was that the El will be untouched. And they had to repeat themselves before the angry crowd.
@@hhvictor2462 What MTA should’ve done was rebuilt the crossover junction north of 180th Street and Built a proper flying Junction than anything. Same with rebuilding Myrtle Av Broadway. Build an actually proper flying junction…
@@TiagoGomez-hb9te There was short lived movement early 1980s called "planned shrinkage" which basically means all services reduced to cut costs based on fake stats. I don't believe the MTA was in a mood to build anything at that time. Btw the authors of that scheme later disowned it.
In 1970; Bronx local business owners and politicians, had a meeting at our local high school.
Amazingly they were urging, local citizens and graduating students, to support their stupid idea of tearing down the third avenue El.
This at a time when the ridership of the third avenue l was reaching an old-time high again.
It shows, who had the real influence, (the local politicians and business owners, who had businesses, under the 3rd avenue El), and saw to the demolition of the third avenue El.
The public did not want the demolition of the Third avenue El.
They wanted to shutdown the #5 line north of East 180 St as well in the late 80’s. The MTA claimed that there were stations that were in disrepair and there was no money to repair them. Plus, there was low ridership on the Dyre Avenue line. Under protest, 3 stations on the line (Baychester Ave, Gun Hill Rd, and Morris Park) were all renovated in the early 90’s and the shutdown never happened.
Transit doesnt go down without a fight!
As a chicago native, I prefer riding an elevated like over a subway
The views alone make it worthwhile
A modern elevated system with enclosed platforms would be awesome
As a Chicago native, one of the problems with the L (especially in the Loop and River North) is that has the yoke of “Landmark Status.” We unfortunately cannot replace the El in the downtown core with quieter concrete L structures and viaducts used on the Orange Line and Newer parts of the Red Line. The worst blunder in the 1990s rehabilitation of the Green Line was keeping it a steel structure above East 63rd. Should’ve been replaced with concrete.
@bkark0935 yea, landmarking critical infrastructure is a mistake
@@bkark0935No. That's not a mistake at all. They can still put "floating" tracks on the steel viaducts. An example of this is the Berlin U1 line. Where the viaduct is strong enough, they can even put an entire concrete *slab* to for the track deck, which was done right here in America in Philadelphia on the Frankford side of the Market-Frankford Line. Chigago just cheaped out on putting rubber isolators under the ties, similar to engine mounts in automobiles to reduce in noise and vibration.
As a person who used to live in NYC but now lives in the Miami suburbs, honestly elevateds are pretty cool.
And nice face reveal!
But they ruin the street environment below.
@@robertewalt7789first of all I completely disagree with you, secondly, modern Els are very different
@@robertewalt7789changing is not the same as ruining - the loop is probably the single most iconic aspect of Chicago, even though it’s monolithic, old, and very noisy.
@@robertewalt7789well yes, even Joseph McKenzie point out that the els are a menace to traffic
Yes, I honestly feel that elevated lines don't get enough love due to how notoriously noisy they are. But truly I believe the benefits of els rule out the noise problem.
Your content keeps getting better and better
Thanks!
this is excellent man !! thank you for your research and precision. Like a true historian.
You cooked, this is by far the best video you've made so far(in my opinion).
We all need to come together as people and convince/ persuade the mta to get these important projects started, this will definitely b beneficial to all commuters. We need to turn dreams into reality
Great Video!
Please continue being vocally supportive of a proper IBX connection to 74th St/Jackson Heights-Roosevelt Ave station. Like the tunnel you proposed with a station underneath 73rd st, under the QBL platform.
Great video!
Two requests:
A: Please use your video camera to record voice overs. The sound quality is superior as compared to what you are using for the voice overs
B: If possible, always prioritize audio when doing interviews. If you are on a limited bandwidth, set the video to a potato slideshow to ensure full audio quality. Or better, do the interview with a low quality while both ends record locally with high quality, and afterwards transfer the high quality recording and sync them up and whatnot in editing.
YOO face reveal.
Exactly man I was doing word search and I had to stop what I did “ hold hold up, I didn’t know that was him. “
i knew bro was asian
I like the new style of the video.
Great history lesson! I really enjoyed learning more about the elevated lines and about the IBX.
Glad you liked it!
24:59 this is a shot of Chicago lol.
Then WE, New York City (a shot of John Hancock Center in Chicago) CAN DO IT!
I assume he was gonna mention Chicago in the list of the cities that can do it :)
@@michalvarga8515 Exactly what I thought, and when he didn't mention Chicago, then I knew he made a video mistake there...
I remember the capital plan of the 80s and seeing the 7ave line getting rebuilt
The intro was awesome! Whole video was insightful and interesting, too.
I just came across this channel. These videos are incredibly well edited. I was aware of the separate transit authorities which existed long ago but didn't know intricacies such as why the IND was introduced. Thanks. Subscription added.
Face reveal! 😊 I didn't know you were of East Asian heritage; I had always perceived you as a US native-born Irish American townie from Boston.
And Mr. Vanshnookenraggen appeared, too, presenting an update for Queenslink. I hope Queenslink gets built even if the foundations and concrete pylons are built first under a Queensway project.
I thought I was the only one 😭
LMFAO
Sameeeeeeeee I had no idea he looked like that XD
Same
I wish that we could get elevated rail lines here in Toronto.
Third ave in the Bronx is in need of a rapid transit line to replace the old line that was removed in the early 70s express buses along the original route still has the buses on surface streets, the el didn’t get stuck in this traffic. A rebuilding of the el at the time was impossible because the city was in financial trouble and removed the line to save money by not having to maintain a line that wasn’t built to heavy duty standards.
Very nice work, I can tell you worked hard on this video! 🔥
Lots of great history and footage here--thank you! I would be interested to know more about support for Queenslink. I was under the impression that the parks proponents were winning and the hope for reactivating the rail line was diminishing.
Actually, I'd consider JFK Air train to be New York City's first El of the 21st century because of its mostly elevated trackage.
The Rockaway elevated in its entirety is falling apart. There is so much exposed rebar.
You're doing great work! Keep at it!
I love elevated trains. It gives so much personality to a city. I really love walking around Chicago and seeing all those trains rumbling. There is noise, yes, but it's not as bad as you might think. And you actually get used to it. My cousins live in a house really, really close to an el station that runs 24 hours a day, and when I stayed it wasn't terrible. Plus today glass can do marvelous things to mitigate a lot of the noise. I hope nyc goes that route and brings back new el routes.
I've always preferred taking the train on an El like the D on West End or N on an open cut line like Sea Beach.
The Brighton line is the best in those regards; there's tunnel, trench, and elevated----four tracks t'boot!
@CraigFThompson agreed
I live next to the elevated M at Myrtle-Wyckoff. The line runs over Myrtle from Broadway where it joins the J/Z. The city has been deplorable in maintaining the infrastructure and it took lots of community effort in Bushwick to get the MTA to look at all the lead paint chipping off of the el and turning to dust over time. Come look at the "fix" along Myrtle. I'm unsure of what the next stage will be, but all lines need to have preventive maintenance scheduled and budgeted as non-negotiables.
I live in Chicago where out of our 146 CTA rapid transit stations, only 21 are underground. The rest are either elevated or at grade level. The reason for this, I have read, is mostly due to cost. It is just less expensive to construct at grade or over ground than to dig a tunnel. The downside to something like this in Chicago is several, at least in my opinion. One is the noise generated by these trains which often run late into the evening. Another is the harsh winter climate. Yes, the above ground stations do often contain heating lamps but they do little to mitigate the brutal cold when the wind is blowing and it is 20 below zero. I am fortunate to reside next to one of the 21 subway stations on the CTA and my main stop for work is also underground. But I have access to the brown line which is all above grade too. During really bad weather I can see the benefit to the subway.
Can you make a video about how to improve the airport connections in NYC? Let’s say Queenslink is built out so you can run the M down to the Rockaways, wouldn’t it make sense to also run a branch to JFK taking over the AirTrain? Extension to LaGuardia, Newark etc. Great video btw!
I think most of the NYC airport commentary have been covered by other UA-camrs. I think you don't really need the M to take over the AirTrain. Most other systems make people get off a particular station, and take an airport people mover into a specific terminal. That is what the JFK AirTrain is.
Though maybe you can integrate the LIRR with the AirTrain. But that is far in the future.
I wish the city bought the part of the NYWB between Hunts Point Ave and E 180th St and turned that into a shuttle, the Sheridan Shuttle, connecting the 2 and 5 trains with the 6 train in The Bronx.
Interesting, I had no idea QueensLink was a thing, only had heard of the making it a trail, which a rail line would definitely would be more beneficial and functional than another park. Queens badly needs more north-south train options. Thanks to the people pushing for it
Thank you. I have learned a lot about New York City's elevated train lines!
Amazing he showed his face for the first time ever
NEW PEAK JTA VIDEO (also pls add a 3rd ave station with the ibx extension to the bronx the central bronx needs it)
Thanks! Also, my plans for the IBX Bronx extension would have a station at 3rd Ave.
@jointransitassociation huh last I checked from your IBX video there wasnt a 3rd Avenue station
@@finaliest It is called Melorse. One end would be closer to Metro North, the other end would closer to 3rd Ave.
@@jointransitassociation OHHHH I didnt even realize I thought it was just a huge gap between intervale ave and Melrose
Also btw what are your thoughts on a Metro North Penn Access station at Astoria Blvd to connect with the N/W (or R with Deinterling) and the M60 sbs bus I really like this since it would allow Astoria and LGA (especially with an Astoria extension THAT MUST HAPPEN) and allow eastern bronx residents into northwestern queen and heavily developed and gentrifying neighborhood of Astoria
You deffenitly wanna know how meny people wants this 8 third Avenue elevated line to be rebuilt again?.
Great video
Just a (few) Station in Manhattan are Above ground..and the Reason is part if Broadway [number 1 line] go down..so the train is Above Ground..and in Staten Island the train run at Street Level...
Goodnight sir . And thank-you once again for making us another awesome video sir. And yes that would've if the MTA would've go ahead Build more Elevated Subway and Commuter Railroad lines throughout the city. It would cut down on cost on the transit projects then creating a tunnel. Witch will cost alot more to build and create more traffic along the neighborhoods of the construction sir. Like IBX line. The MTA should've go ahead with Queenslink and not Queensway. Due to the connection to Airtrain at Howard Beach ⛱️ . Queenslink will cut Subway rides commute down by 10 or 15 minutes. The A train line has to travel through Brooklyn before it reaches Manhattan and Queenslink just continues straight through Queens to Manhattan sir. Also thanks for stepping on camera sir. 📷
What Id like to see are renderings of a modern El.
Yo quality went up. This was great
Another aspect as to why elevated trains have appeal again is cost. When the Second Avenue Subway is running $2 BILLION/mile suddenly an elevated, pre-cast line doesn't sound or look too terrible doesn't it? I'm in Edmonton and the new Valley Line West project will be running at least two sections elevated including the station at West Edmonton Mall, formerly the world's largest shopping centre and the OG project from Triple Five owners of American Dream Mall aka Project Xanadu... In fact the pre-cast beams were built and elevated in a few months while the rest of the line at grade is taking forever. Ironic that simple street-running sections have now become the most problematic for both the contractors as well as the communities affected by construction rather than its elevated, pre-cast pier-beam sections...
The 8 Third Avenue elevated line will deffenitly be elevated in the south Bronx Gun Hill road Webster central Avenue clearmont . Never rebuilt another elevated line in Manhattan again. They are deffenitly studying rebuilding the brand new third Avenue elevated line back over the cross Bronx Express highway it will not have to make to much noises anymore. Keep mentioning about the extra subway elevated lines that had no business tearing down .
First shot is 110th 8th ave👌🏾. Just being born and raised in Harlem, I can tell a lot of the parts that were recorded from the 9th ave El uptown.
@9:26
Where is THIS? The flying junction filmed here is intriguing! Multi-levels.
But they were not utilize very well compare to subways
Well done!
It was wrong to remove 3rd and 2nd Avenue L's. At least 2nd Avenue L should have been kept. On East Side, we now have very crowded Lexington Line and very slow busses due to congestion. 2nd Avenue Subway will not be built in East Side Midtown and Downtown.
Chicago is the king of the elevated lines. Anytime there is a suggestion to tear down an elevated line...it's been shouted down. Now we have an extension coming to one of our longest lines and it will be elevated...the Red line will be extended to very edge of the southside of the city.
Great video tbh the IBX should be extended one stop towards a new station at 50 street near 25 ave to connect the ibx to the Penn station portion of the New Haven line so people can get a ride from bay ridge all the way to New Haven how about that that will be a game changer
Don't let these nimbys from prevent any elevated train project.
The extra subway elevated lines is deffenitly needed because we have the city coming back strong and its deffenitly picking back up I'm telling you.
While at grade suburban trains in Japan are moving underground or elevated.
Elevated is superior to at grade
@@qjtvaddict And subway is superior to elevated.
My philosophy is that if it possible to be built underground, it should be built underground. However, if it is not possible due to geography, cost, etc, build it elevated. I'd rather have it elevated than non-existent. Street running should be avoided whenever possible.
The elevate section of the 1 train between 120th and 130th streets are a perfect example
2:15 Face reveal!
Good video💪
Whenever I take the train at Myrtle-Wyckoff the M train turns there and it is so loud
I would love to see more elevated trains again, but too bad it can’t be in Manhattan
Manhattan is too dense for that with some many buildings and connection between Manhattan and the outer boroughs is difficult as infrastructure of bridges such as Brooklyn bridge and Queensboro bridge wouldn't be able to handle newer cars, the ones that were introduce in the 60s and so on starting with the R32 s as subway cars underwent changes in their design, structure and specifications would take it's toll on the existing infrastructure and the Manhattan bridge and the section of the BMT Jamaica line are perfect examples.
Manhattan is too dense
Now I’m desperate for the Third Avenue EL revival for the Bronx
Only if MTA build a sound-proof elevated train to reduce noise.
@@durece100 ck yes! Even elevated "tunnels" are used to sound-proof in other cities by creating sound barriers around the tracks. It also helps weather proof them from rain, snow and nice too! An added benefit...
Shame they got rid of so many of the elevated tracks in Manhattan. The views would’ve been spectacular today and there’d be Wi-Fi.
Is the stock footage of Chicago at 24:59 meant to emphasize that a city can indeed have a love-hate relationship with Els? Because Chicago's Els are very antiquated and not at all modern.
That was me being dumb and forgetting to double check which city I was using the footage from.
I'm an agent for PATH, I've been in love with trains since I was five years old, I've grew up riding trains including the MTA NYC Subway trains as (7) Train is my favorite line, and I'm for the Congestion Pricing. I do hope that the MTA does revisit the following projects since Congestion Pricing is fully implemented for the next MTA 2030-2034 Capital Plan.
1. Proposal of the Astoria Line (N), (W), extension to/from LaGuardia Airport in Queens.
2. Study the Queenslink subway in Queens.
3. Extend the (Q) Line to/from 125th Street at Broadway to provide a transfer to the (1) Train in Manhattan.
4. Extend the (4) train from Utica Avenue to/from Avenue U (Kings Plaza) in Brooklyn.
5. Extend the (1) to/from 261st Street-Riverdale in The Bronx.
6. Extend the (D) train to/from Co-Op City in The Bronx.
7. Extend the (J/Z) trains to/from Belmont Park-Bay Ridge in Queens.
8. Extend the (E) train to/from Rosedale in Queens.
9. Reinstate the (K) Train from 207th Street Inwood-Ozone Park Lefferts Boulevard to replace the (A) Train to better streamline the IND Lines.
10. Reinstate the (H) Train as Rockaway 116th Street-Broad Channel & Selective Rush Hour Express Service to/from 42nd Street Port Authority Bus Terminal (Lower Level) to replace the selected (A) Train (Rush Hour).
11. Extend the (G) Train to/from Jamaca-Parsons/Archer in Queens to/from Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue in Brooklyn.
12. Extend the (R) Train to/from Jamaca-179th Street in Queens.
13. (W) Train as a via Astoria Peak Express in Queens.
14. Peak Express between Jay Street/MetroTech & W. 8th Street-Aquarium in Brooklyn.
15. Extend the (3) Train from New Lots Avenue to/from Gateway Center in Brooklyn.
16. Reinstate the (9) Train as a peak skip stop service & extend to/from Waldo Avenue next to the yard in The Bronx.
17. Extend the (7) Train to/from 20th Avenue-College Point in Queens,
18. New (8) Subway Line to align the (7) Train Line to extend to/from 154th Street/Northern Boulevard in Queens.
19. Extend the Rush Hour Selected (W) Train via Sea Beach Line Express as a Peak Express in Brooklyn.
20. Simplify the (Z) Peak Express Train serving between Chambers Street-City Hall in Manhattan & Jamaca-Parsons/Archer in Queens to replace the selected (J) Peak Express Trains.
21. Reconstruct the Sea Beach Line Express Tracks into CBTC & reconstruct the Peak Express Stop Stations at New Utrecht Avenue Station to transfer the (D) Train & Kings Highway Station in Brooklyn.
22. Extend the proposal (T) train from Hanover Square to align with the (J/Z) Trains in Manhattan to/from 9th Avenue Station (Lower Level) to transfer the (D) Train in Brooklyn.
23. Reconstruct the Chambers Street-City Hall Station, Canal Street, & Bowery Street on the (J/Z) line abandon platforms.
24. Reinstate the (V) Train serving between Forest Hills in Queens, align the (G) Crosstown Line, construct section between Bedford
Nostrand Avs Station to/from Franklin Avenue (Shuttle Station), to/from Prospect Park as a two track, and terminate at Brighten Beach in Brooklyn to replace the Franklin Avenue (Shuttle Train).
25. Construct a passageway between 63rd Street/Lexington Avenue (F)/(Q) Station & 59th Street (N), (R), (W), (6) Station to provide better transfer without having to exit the station to use the MetroCard/OMNY Card to re-enter the station.
26. Reconstruct the abandon 42nd Street Port Authority Bus Terminal Lower Level in Manhattan.
27. Reconstruct the Bergen Avenue & Carroll Street (F)/(G) Station (Lower Level) as an express stop station in Brooklyn.
28. Reconstruct a passageway on Marcy Avenue (J), (M), (Z) Station for better transfer to connect the Williamsburg Bridge Plaza Bus Terminal in Brooklyn.
29. Reconstruct a passageway between Queensboro Plaza (N), (W), (7) Station & Queens Plaza (E), (M), (R) Station in Queens to provide better transfers without having to leave the station to re-enter the station by using the MTA MetroCard/OMNY Card.
30. Reconstruct a passageway between 34th Street Penn Station (1), (2), (3) & 34th Street Herald Square Station (B), (D), (F), (M), (N), (Q), (R), (W), and to connect the 33rd Street PATH Station Terminal without having to exit the street level in Manhattan.
Replace the A train?! Hell to the no!
The A train is thr MTA's flagship service; this is the train that made the entire subway system famous, and you want it eliminated?!
@CraigFThompson the only (A) Train branch should remain Is the Inwood 207th-Far Rockaway Mott Street which I never said that branch to be eliminated at all and the (A) Train branch for the Inwood 207th-Ozone Park Lefferts Blvd line should be rebrand as the (K) to simplify the IND line ID if that makes sense.
@carlos.a.sanchez201 Why not just keep the C train and send it to Lefferts, and have the A train handle both terminals on the Rockaway Peninsula?!
@@CraigFThompson it's interesting you brought it up, because back in the 1990s the C train used to service the Rockaway Peninsula which was discontinued, good gesture too extended to'from Ozone Park Lefferts Boulevard and have the (A) as the Flag Carrier train to/from Far Rockaway, but there's a UA-cam video based on that and I believe that would require additional reconstruction on the interlocking at Euclid Avenue which would be very expensive to execute.
Queens link has the support and I don’t understand why the mta is taking so long to launch the line
I have a question of the IBX can you transfer to it from the Q train for free if not then it not good because of only have 2 transfer. for example you take the subway to the IBX then take a bus and hope is doesn’t take 2 fare or 3 fare
I'm pretty sure there would be free transfers on the IBX, even though it would be out of system. The MTA is probably going to implement a tap in, tap out system with OMNY, and when someone taps out, that is where you can have a free transfer.
@ what if you transfer from the subway to the IBX and then a bus wouldn’t that count as three transfer not two anymore. Then that go over the one free transfer and then you have to paid a second fare!
@@probrawlclubepicplay8585 Judging from MTA statements transfers will be the same for IBX.
I know it's not the most important consideration, but I really wish they could make the concrete viaducts more aesthetically interesting. They're so drab and "Modernist." Obviously, the old elevated tracks had functional issues, especially the noise. But at least they had character. NYC, of all cities in the US, should build things with character. Living in DC, I don't mind the Brutalist architecture of the underground Metro stations. It's part of their charm, I suppose. And the Downtown area has plenty of Brutalist buildings for that style to tie into. But carried outside and into the suburbs, all of the above ground tracks and facilities are the visual equivalent of a mid-Century strip mall or a Texas freeway overpass. Just ugly and sad, even when brand new (see: the Silver Line expansion).
it’s funny to hear about the els in the past tense when i live like 100 feet from the J train tracks haha
I feel that the best way is what was presented. Reusing old, slightly used, already built El's. Barring a radically new technology, the old El's came with support beams that stood on the street. Since they were spaced every 50 ft or so, the use of those locations were impacted. We forget this. I believe that the old Lexington ave - In Brooklyn, yeah - was torn down sooner that it might have been, partially because of all of the obstructions that support beams had on walking and other quality of life issues. Wayyy older way of building it but nevertheless will still obstruct ground level activities.
Best way is to reuse what was already built IMHO.
3ave line could have been IRT specs with New trucks like PCC
The ultimate nimby nightmare
Surprised no one compares the west end of Market Frankfurt Line in Philly it's cost analysis and what could be done with modern ELS from that perspective. In 2010 they tore down a 100 year old EL, replaced 3 miles and six stations for under 1 billion, stations included. Similar for the northern half with some mishaps due to cost cutting. This method could daylight the SAS from midtown to lower manhattan and take up only 1 lane of 7 on that avenue.
Yeah concrete els are very quite. We desperately need the N/W extension to LaGuardia. Maybe Broadway will finally get the respect it deserves. (We need R160s back on the N/W) Also if that happens, still keep the R on Forest Hills, and N/W. The N would be better for Airport users and the W provides filler without needing too much trains.
The els have to be more modern
Elevated trains are more economical to build. Viaducts level the line and if there are floods, the patrons are dry; why Chicago went up. NYC has a high water table, so a no brainer.
I lived near the 7 for a while. They were damn loud.
Elevated lines are detailed & nice, but they're really complex & expensive, tbqh.
Does anyone have a sound test of concrete vs steel el subway?
Good video. However, a subway / elevated extension needs to be built to Staten Island to connect the SIR, with the rest of NYC. When the Verrazano Narrows Bridge was in the design phase, the BMT Forth Ave Subway was originally supposed to come to Staten Island. But Robert Moses said NO to this idea. In the 1920's, there were two provisions to bring the Subway to Staten Island. The first one was a "spur" from the 59th St 4th Ave station on the current N & R line to Staten Island. Then the Forth Ave Line's southern terminal was moved from 86th Street, to 95th Street 4th Ave. This would have connected with the Staten Island Railroad with the now defunct East Shore Line.
Spinal Tap reference at 8:28 🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘🤘
We rlly should get a Nostrand Ave elevated line sumwhere after Flatbush Ave or Avenue K
An El that is needed: LaGuardia Airport connection to the N/W subway. Astoria/Ditmars residents might try to NIMBY it, but with continuously welded rail and modern quieter trains, it should be built.
To be clear, projects like the “inter borough express”, “penn station access” for metro north and “queens link” are not exactly “building elevated train lines” so much as they are using existing rail infrastructure, most of which is either below ground in open trenches, at or just above ground level or above ground but not a true “elevated rail line” (above a street along a significant portion of its route).
I get what you are saying, but I still lump them into the story of elevated because the trains are still very much visible, and have the same problems as els. In fact, residents along the Bay Ridge Branch have complained about the noise of freight trains since forever. So conventional wisdom tells us that they too will block the IBX, because why would back another train going by every 5 minutes? Except they didn't.
Also, the Rockaway Beach Branch has not seen service since 1962, so at this point, it likely have to be a new elevated line. The right of way needs to be completely rebuilt.
Finally, the definition of an "el" has morphed so much that I don't think it needs to be over the street. Most of the L's in the Chicago L do not run above streets, but rather above alleyways. In fact, the South Side L was nicknamed the Alley L because it was built above numerous alleyways.
The MTA should SERIOUSLY consider restoring the Third Avenue EL line in the Bronx by connecting it to the 2nd Ave line (Q). The Bronx portion would emerge over a bridge into the Bronx and proceed as an El, just like the historic Third Avenue EL line once did. Service is sorely needed in that corridor of the Bronx. It is evident due to the population boom in that area of the Bronx. And also evident by the late and super crowded buses that replaced the El and cause platform and service congestion at the Third Avenue & 149 St Station & 2/5 lines. This is a no-brainer.
As one living in vancouver (yay for shouting us out 24:56), if it werent for the skytrain, i wouldntve been intereted in transit, so i made a list of things in mind on my first medium article on discussing to others how to build good aerial metros and why theyre better:
the space between the building and the viaduct should be wider than the width of the whole viaduct to allow the least amount of obstruction;
planners should advertising it as a way to view the city as youre riding, most of the times on a given corridor youre on the train. even if you wanna walk, if u make mockups (using prev point) its not that bad anyway;
use concrete instead of steel, and maybe add some soundproofing;
cheaper;
easier for cars to see how faster trains are;
reply anything i missed
I don't why they are proposing IBX without restoring G train service back to Forest Hills. Also there needs to be a crosstown express that goes from the Bronx into Brooklyn.
The G to Forest Hills isn't a good idea. A preliminary look at employment data shows that QBL residents are not going to Brooklyn, but rather Manhattan, while Crosstown residents are also going to Manhattan. It has been that way since forever.
Also, excessively interlining the G on QBL would forever hardwire the garbage frequencies seen on the M and R trains. You also can't take one train away for the G because that will lead to severe overcrowding on Manhattan bound services. Anyone who took QBL during the 80s and 90s will tell you that.
I do agree that we should extend the IBX to the Bronx though.
@@jointransitassociationthat wouldn't be a problem if the MTA did the 63rd street connector was properly built, in terms of reviving the super express two track line, the first option was the best one because it retains the four current services and add a extra service on the 63rd street connector and the connection to/from the QBL south of 36 and the super express have to be grade separate and the platform for the transfer at Queens Plaza would have to be built east of the junction or have the 21st Street Queensbridge connect instead while the split off would be built east of it. The only her plans in the 80s and 90s include an extension past 179 to Springfield Blvd and a Jewel Avenue branch which would have helped with the QBL where one local train would serve the transit desert in Ally Pond Park and the other can take either 179 or Archer while 53rd provides extra service and 63rd 24/7. Because of how the 63rd is poorly executed, we end with a current service that is not handle very well
As a lifelong east Flatbush Brooklyn resident I’m dying to see this Utica av line completed but I’m 35 now, if life sphere maybe by 60 it will b completed🫠
The Ibex is an animal, too, in the same family as deer, rams, etc.
what
I don’t see the city building El’s anytime soon. New projects like inter-boro and penn station are being done on existing rail lines to avoid that public pushback.
I’m all for trains. Hopefully the 2nd ave line gets finished.
I understand that sentiment, but I don't think a new el going over a railroad right of way means much. Especially when people along the line have complained about freight trains since forever. So, by extending that logic, why would these same people back another train line going by every 5 minutes? At least those freight trains only come by every few hours. So, there should be a huge backlash towards the IBX, and there was for a brief moment, but that went away.
name of the song pls 🙏
soundcloud.com/top-flow-official/snowy-peaks
pixabay.com/music/future-bass-nightfall-future-bass-music-228100/
pixabay.com/music/modern-classical-tearstream-alley-262939/
pixabay.com/music/traditional-jazz-late-night-big-band-swing-jazz-instrumental-236168/
pixabay.com/music/modern-classical-ashes-of-hiroshima-272353/
soundcloud.com/top-flow-official/freedom-wings
If the Flushing part of the 7 line were elevated, it would’ve made it exponentially easier to extend to Bayside if they want to in the following decades.
Sick intro music.
Very interesting. You have the potential to become to NYC Transit history, present and future what what Jago Hazzard is to London's transit system. Check out his channel and you will see what I mean.
Can confirm that Jago Hazzard is a very accomplished UA-camr. Most of his content is London-based (and of that mostly the Underground network) but he often branches out to other transport-related content. He has a particular style and in fact many commenters say they are not particularly interested in railways but find his output interesting and enjoyable.
They need to build a elevated train bridge to Staten Island from Brooklyn.
A tunnel would be far more practical in this case.
@CraigFThompson You are right. A tunnel is a better idea from Bay Ridge.
In liberty city in GTA 4. They Have 1 of those Elevated Trains. In the Game.
I disagree strongly with the narrator's view that everyone hated the els. The Third Avenue El was particularly loved by many and missed still by those of us who remember it so fondly from our youth. I suspect its misguided demise had far more to do with greedy developers and politicians than by its supposed obsolescence. It is no coincidence that the el's demolition was followed by the widespread replacement of working class housing with gargantuan shiny new buildings marketed to the wealthy. Had it survived the mid-century iconoclasts, it might have survived to be cherished like the Chicago Loop which remains a pleasure to ride on. Otherwise, thank you for the video. Though I no longer live in NY, the proposals sound wonderful.
In my opinion all the elevated lines should be demolished and replaced with modern concrete designs like the ones used on the JFK Airtrain
Every El line senselessly and foolishly demolished in Manhattan and in the outer boros over the decades ought to be rebuilt. Make New York City Great Again!
Nah. Just build way more subway lines in Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens…
@@TiagoGomez-hb9te yeah well Manhattan needs them too. 1st Ave, 3rd Ave, 6th Ave, and 9th Ave. The more the merrier.
@@hhvictor2462 Manhattan doesn’t need ELs. The Subways made the ELs obsolete and are way more efficient than the ELs. They just need 2nd Avenue to be Quad Track and extend some Subway lines like the L and the 7… The Bronx, Brooklyn and especially Queens meanwhile are transit desserts. Like no N/W trains to LaGuardia Airport or 3 or L trains to JFK? No LIRR to JFK or Coney Island? No E train to Springfield Gardens or Green Acres Mall and no F, J, and 7 trains extended down to the borders of Queens? Come on now! G train also badly needs to be extended to Queens…
@@TiagoGomez-hb9te Long annoying train backup/delays during morning rush at the major subway stations like Grand Central, Times Square, 14th ST and other express stops Yeah, Manhattan need those El lines desperately.The outer boro lines must run into Manhattan anyway.
New Myrtle Avenue to/from Jay Street and Third Avenue Bronx Skytrains! Then connect the two at a future date. 🤔😊
Noise has nothing to do with riding the trains. The ONLY problem was you have to climb 50 steps to reach the elevated train platform. Those steps delete elderly, disabled, parents with strollers from riding the train. So the raised trains lose 30% of riders before the raised trains are even built.
Subways have just as many stairs as els, and if you’re building new lines it’s at least as easy, probably easier, to add elevators to el stations vs subway stations
@@de-fault_de-fault 30%
@@Nova-m8d uh, ok. And that disproves what part of what I said about it?
@@de-fault_de-fault I understand your frustration.
Great video 🙂👍🏼
18:24 - - Q: does that shuttle only have 1 track?
16:14 - - twin towers
I have the same question for 19:23
The subway was ground into near disrepair after less than 25 years of public ownership, that's pretty disconcerting and disheartening.
Without watching this yet, the main reason is cost. It costs a lot less than it is to dig underground.
I understudy the Queens link final design was to be light rail NOT subway or LIRR.
No? It was going to be a subway.
Yeah!!
@@bobainsworth5057it's light rail and not a subway, one of the problems in trying to do the subway and the rail is the existing tunnel between Wilson and Atlantic, even utilizing an existing station to create a transfer point at Broadway Junction is difficult