This has become possibly the NUMBER ONE frequently asked question in the comments: If he's fast enough to travel back in time, why couldn't Superman stop both missiles? What do you think?
If we look at it from the movie's point of view, how long has he even been Superman for? who or what did he have to counter his powers against? as far as we know it's barely been a few days for him as well, and while there's plenty of urgency is catching the missile, it's also said earlier in the movie that they have "evading" techniques built into them (recall the missile dodged him at first when he was there first to catch it, i think its' a cut scene). Also, he was trying to use his powers in a limited way to avoid breaking the rules, until he lost Lois and that was the second major loss in his life and earlier in his movie where he was doing the "teaching" with his dad, they specifically broke the time barrier to go to the past and see his Planet before it exploded... (which makes Brandon Routh's cut scene ridicules and pointless), so he broke the rules and did what he was forbidden from doing...
@@prodigioussaps He couldn't fly that fast in Earth's atmosphere without creating devastating consequences like burning up all of the air from friction or creating super hurricane wind speeds from him pushing the air with his body as he flew. If you notice, he's flying outside of Earth's atmosphere as he's flying that fast.
It’s a great question. To me, he just didn’t yet know how fast he could go. It took the super-emotional break of Lois dying that pushed him to find out. Jor El did say, when he was sending him to Earth, that he will have almost LIMITLESS speed. Whatever the case, there was something really cool about that shot of him flying behind that missile, trying to grab it, that just thrilled the crap outta me. It’s one of my favourite scenes.
The emotional impact of Lois dying released his Kryptonian Adrenaline, giving him the extra speed he needed. I thought this was obvious, but what do I know.
There's another video for you - if all these Kryptonite meteorites were always falling to Earth from the explosion (another scientific stretch that an exploded planet at least "28 known galaxies away" would just happen to have meteors shooting out to and reaching specifically Earth), wouldn't Superman be constantly weakened just from the presence of Kryptonite debris around Earth?
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again - Superman couldn’t fly fast enough to catch both missiles in time. This is shown after Lois dies. Superman starts flying around the world on an impossible gamble of something that had not been tried before. But remember, he started out rather slowly. It took him 3 hours to make the first trip around the globe. “3 hours?” you ask. “No, it took just a second or two.” True, on film, it appeared to take just a second or two. But what was the Earth doing? It was spinning. It made about 1/8th of a rotation under Superman’s first orbit. At 24 hours per rotation, 1/8th of a rotation is approximately 3 hours. Had the director filmed the sequence in real time, the first orbit alone would have added 3 hours to the film’s running time. The sequence was shown such that you could actually see the Earth rotating - something you normally would not be able to see. His initial speed was a camera trick. It would have taken many hours that he did not have to build up the speed needed to catch both missiles. It just took too much time to build up the speed.
Good point! That’s something very few people have mentioned, the earth’s rotation speed. However I do think this kinda falls under artistic license, because they needed to show the Earth rotating fast enough that the audience could perceive it. Yet another reason to not take what we’re seeing 100% literally, IMO.
Superman slowed down to not damage the missile, the same way he slowed down to catch Lois and even was dropping down to safely catch the falling helicopter. If he moved things too fast, they disintegrate or might explode.
This scene where Superman hears Jor-El has always made me laugh cos basically Supes is saying 'Get lost, dead dad, you don't tell me what to do!' 🤣 Also, Jor-El says 'It is forbidden for you to interfere with human history'. Does this mean going back in time and altering things only? Because surely every time he rescues someone, like the President's plane or Lois & the helicopter, he's interfering with human history!
Yeah the “interfere with human history” thing is a weird line. I suspect they retconned the meaning of that line to add context and tension to this scene, but I’m not sure. If so its original intention may have been that he’s forbidden to interfere with geopolitical conflicts, intervene in wars, etc. … just a theory
@@prodigioussaps Which he completely ignores in the 4th film by making all the countries hand over their Nuclear weapons. Isn't that interfering. Supes definitely had a problem listening to his dead dad! 🤣
Kind of like Doc Brown saying don't interact with anyone, don't do anything, etc., etc. (which is impossible even if you're a hermit), but yet he not only invents a time machine, but also travels in it himself.
I'm amazed by the fact that Krypton was _galaxies_ away from Earth, but somehow the Kryptonians not only knew of its existence but also how "primitive" it was, thousands of years behind. So obviously they would have to have had the technology of vastly advanced space travel, but somehow had only one spaceship built, that for Jor-El's son. And how did he manage to build it in secret? And why were the thousands-of-years advanced Kryptonian elders so stupid as to not recognize the danger to their planet? And why forbid escape for the planet's population?
For what it's worth, flying at near light speed inside the Earth's atmosphere (as opposed to orbiting the planet in the vacuum of space) would ignite the atmosphere and the impact on air molecules would result in a nuclear explosion. The Flash avoids this friction problem via the Speed Force, but Superman doesn't have that luxury.
@@Mirakulus9 This is what I always thought. (In fact, STAR TREK IV broke this rule by having the Bird of Prey go to warp speed while inside Earth’s atmosphere.)
@FrankJReynolds Just playing nerdy devil's advocate... isn't warp speed technically not near or breaking light speed, but warping space? In any event, warping space in a planet's atmosphere does still sound like a bad idea.
@@purefoldnz3070 He was outside Earth's atmosphere when he traveled at light speed to travel back in time. But the guys were addressing questions as to why he didn't travel that fast to stop the missile - which was clearly inside Earth's atmosphere.
@@Mirakulus9 well to catch the other rocket he wouldn't even have to come close to the speed of light, the ISS roughly orbits the earth in 90 minutes at 17,500 miles per hour, so he travels faster than that at approx 70,000 mph he could orbit the earth in less than 14 mins if he kept going in the same direction and catch the other rocket coming from the opposite direction of the earth.
The more perplexing issue for me has always been what happened to the missiles when Superman turned back time? Did he stop both from even launching? Also, doesnt Lois berate him for not being there when gas stations are blowing up and power lines falling after he'd reversed time? If he stopped it from happening, why is she talking about those events?
It is confusing, to be sure. It appears he didn’t go back far enough to prevent the whole disaster from happening… he only went back far enough to do something that prevented Lois’s death. Because yeah, based on what Lois and Jimmy say afterwards, the earthquake still happened which means the missile still hit. Also the fact that Jimmy was still left out in the middle of nowhere after being saved from the crumbling dam. Soooo… yeah it’s weird because the backwards footage seems to suggest he’s undoing everything, but apparently he didn’t.
@ChuckM0503 after watching it a few times I wonder if he didn't just reverse the gravitational force of the earth sort of causing it to reverse the damage done by the flood and so forth.
My headcanon was that he can fly that fast in space, but if he were to do that in Earth's atmosphere, the force of a human-sized object going relativistic speeds would do damage to the planet. (The very first XKCD "What If?" comic discusses a baseball going .9c, for instance, and it does not end well)
I suspect its a bit of both. 1 - speed alone isn't enough to deal with the force of the rocket engines on the first missile and he had to be careful not to trigger the thing over New Jersey and 2 - he knew the risks of going back in time by flying that fast, but once Lois dies, he decides to risk accept. I think it was cool because it shows him slowly ramping up his powers as the situation becomes more and more precarious. I love that about Superman. He could solve almost any problem by going back in time but he knows there are consequences - for instance in the Donner cut (I think) when the Damn breaks the indigenous people get their water back but after he turns back time they lose it again. I think I am remembering that correctly ??
I had never thought about this until just now. So, perhaps the speeds he flew at to change the past came about due to his very personal motivation to do with Lois’s death? But then there’s movie story telling which has a logic all of its own. Still, it’s fun to think about it. Thanks for your videos!
Some good answers here, but I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this… personally, I always put it down to acceleration. Now we expect there to be cuts in movies, so when we see Superman flying around the world, it's fair to assume it actually took him longer than what we saw in the movie. Who knows? Maybe his first circle round the earth took a few minutes, with each subsequent circle getting faster and faster until we get to that moment when he's orbiting 7.5 thousand times per second (speed of light). The movie can't really "show" us this in real time, so what we see is a kind of "cinematic shorthand" in super slow motion, then playing in reverse. Plus, the faster he's going, the longer it would take to slow down, stop, and turn around. So even if he COULD suddenly jump to this vast speed without any acceleration to stop the first missile, he'd then be heading in the wrong direction at a huge speed and would have to stop and do 180°. But handling the missile would take a great deal of care and you'd really need to match its speed or else the impact of being hit at a high speed could send it veering off in the wrong direction, or cause an explosion. Finally, another interesting little detail to note/consider about Superman flying around the world is that when he begins going back in time, we only see one set of trails. Though obviously there would be a SECOND Superman there at that time flying in the OPPOSITE direction. I guess we don't see HIS trails because his speed would be (relatively) slower. Though the very first moment Superman begins going back in time, you should (at least briefly) see BOTH supermen flying away from each other, as they're both doing almost the same speed. Then again, time and relativity is weird and I don't understand it very well!
I heard one interpretation that Superman did not actually reverse the spin of the Earth to go back in time but it was just a visual representation of him entering the time force like the Flash to go back in time and stop the disaster from ever happening.
The missile wasn't ballistic, it was a cruise missile, so it had a guidance system. It would have continuously wanted to course correct until it ran out of fuel. He would have had to take it into space himself.
Great point gentleman. Also consider he was recovering from Krypton exposure so all of his abilities were in flux. Superman can absorb solar radiation and convert it into usable energy, but much of that was being used for healing. He was taxing his body beyond whatever limits he knew of. I always say to people, if you have Superman working constantly for hours and days and wait for nightfall, you have a good change of hurting him....but he does have quick recovery and hidden berserker rage which you don't want to be on the wrong end of.
For me, I've always wondered why the nuclear explosion and its effects in the surrounding areas wasn't properly shown aside from the San Andreas fault waking up (perhaps the technical limitations of the SFX). After all, Lex said that the XK-101 missiles had an explosive yield of 500 MEGATONS! That's 10x more powerful than the USSR's Tsar Bomba! I'm pretty sure San Francisco and Los Angeles would've been reached by the blast... 🤔💥
@@prodigioussaps I agree, the first movie is 100% perfect, while the second "movie" is kind of a mish-mash which wasn't really one man's vision and the theatrical release has a lot of stupid Lester moments. Without doubt a fantastic film, just as enjoyable as the first, but the first was pure Donner and was the result of people writing a script and filming that script, as opposed to piecing together a movie from a broken production.
Observer effect. After going back in time there are now two Supermen. To minimize impact on the timeline while one Superman runs around fixing things the second is just saving Lois. Eventually the two Supermen will catch up with each other at Lois' car. From 10K up Superman sees himself below with a live Lois and noodles it out, going back in time himself to save Lois, becoming the only Superman, and now Superman has two sets of memories from the same event and that is the only observer paradox. If Superman goes back and stops the second nuke things get super paradoxed. More importantly Superman is not supposed to stop all bad things from happening, which he could almost do, but that (as with many bad Superman decisions) is the slippery slope that leads to the Justice Lords.
I never questioned it. He seemed to be trying really hard stop just one of them. The issue of speed has been addressed in the full episode but I’ll add that we wouldn’t want him peeling the atmosphere right off the planet, so he can save his crush. I mean, he’d certainly score big points with her…right before she died, again.
His speed us virtually limitless. He didnt decide to interfere with Human history til Lois died. Donner does a great job of explaining this. When he flies off in anger you hear his father repeat it is forbidden to interfere with human history. Then he remembers his father Jonathan dying and having all those great powers and he couldn't even save him. This is the pivotal moment he choses human kind over his Kryptonian heritage. In fact earlier in the movie after his first night in the extended scene JorEl says " So you have exposed yourself to the world, So be it" . Remember he was not to interfere with human history but rather let his strength stir others on. I kinda look at this way. Imagine trying to teach a young kid to tie their shoes. Its much easier to just do it for them. Instead of them messing up , or putting them on the wrong feet. Now imagine your running late and your child comes in with two different shoes on the wrong feet with untied laces. JorEl put his son in an impossible situation. Later on intensified when he falls in love and forsakes his destiny. This shows a flawed and learning Superman. Who chose humanly over Krypton. When Lois dies he simply went into another gear
0:36 Superman could have punched through that missile or used his heat vision and not have detonated the warhead since the nuclear weapons don't work like conventional ones.
He couldn't fly that fast in Earth's atmosphere without creating devastating consequences like burning up all of the air from friction or creating super hurricane wind speeds from him pushing the air with his body as he flew. If you notice, he's flying outside of Earth's atmosphere as he's flying that fast.
well I guess the real answer is instead of turning back to catch the other missile he keeps going in the same direction to come around to the other side of the earth and catch it from the other side, if he was going fast enough. That way if he keeps moving forward in one direction he keeps his momentum and speed instead of stopping.
0:58 Sounds like more moral laziness, any and all non interference policies. Albert Einstein - 'The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.'
Well even at 1/5 the speed of light, he'd still be way faster than two land missiles and 'not travel through time'. Of course I have an issue with him travel so fast, in an atmosphere. Can one imagine the ripple of sonic booms? The power it would generate, and the physical shockwaves through the planet? I suppose no, that wasn't considered.
As fans, we've been making up fan fiction to fix this plot hole for 46 years. 😆 The studio forcing the director to use the expensive special effect designed to go at the end of Superman II and not Superman I because they doubted the already shot 2 would even get a release has been a conundrum for the ages.
I’ve always felt like there’s levels to his powers. For example he can hold and turn a doorknob without it just folding in his hands same way you or I could. It’s not until he applies the pressure that it would crumple whereas us humans could apply pressure all day and nothing happens. So getting further into his powers there’s a level he can casually access and then there’s levels he has to push himself to achieve and it actually takes tremendous intensity on his part. So going back in time is not something he can necessarily just *do* anytime he wants. Also factor in that whole “you’re forbidden to interfere with human history” thing. He knows the he should not act in the capacity of a god. So in the case of Lois dying not only is there the emotional intensity of the moment but also actively defying his father’s edict in that instance because the one life he couldn’t save is one so close to his heart. Now granted I think this does kind of represent the difficulties of his “Pre-Crisis” power levels and part of why I kind of prefer it to be dialed back a bit. But at the same time a good writer can still make that power level work and also do so in a way where you can still connect with the character and this movie shows that. He’s willing to defy space, time, fate and his own father to save the woman he loves. Pretty relatable if you ask me.
You give a reasonable explanation. But the number one reason why such explanations and second guesses have to be given is because Superman is nearly a 100-year-old character who has had far more writers and interpretations than any other superhero. DC makes no definite determination of his powers and abilities and in doing so causes the Man of Steel, like no other hero there is, to often be nerfed (strength wise) and dumbed down (intelligence wise) in favor of lesser characters and inadequate writers. In answer to this, DC has merged all interpretations of Superman which only serves to add to the confusion as to what Kal El is capable of doing, because now in one instance, past or present, he lifts entire mountains and in others struggles to lift a lesser weight all for the purpose of telling an insufficient story. And no, Superman is not OP as long as in the same breath there are heroes/villains said to be able to defeat him. Doesn't this then make said hero/villain even more OP and no one complains about it.
Superman The Movie is a Fantasy. Despite what Jor-El says, "This is no Fantasy" The movie doesn't answer every question, and it's not supposed to. Somethings are left up to the viewer's imagination and interpretation.
This is what fans do over their morning coffee and breakfast. We are still at the very beginning of the Space age. We don't even know if there are aliens who could send their son to earth when their planet self-destructs. I want there to be aliens, but we don't know. Superman definitely strays into the fantasy collum more often than not.
He had to guide the missle. The time it took to guide it safely caused him to be too late to stop the other one. That feat was early in his career. He would've been more successful later on.
This is why it's called fantasy (despite Jor-El's opening line ha ha), not science fiction. Nothing is ever really explained, you just have to go with it.
You know i love these movies (Yes even 3 and 4) and i just love how you guys nerd out about this stuff!! I wish my brain could go as deep as you guys, but most of the time i just enjoy what I'm seeing and go with it. Unless it's completely stupid and makes no sense at all.
Could this issue be the result of the decision (made late in the filmmaking process) of having Superman turning back time be the ending of the first film instead of the second? Maybe as originally written, the difference wasn’t so apparent? (And even if it was, the scenes would have been in different films, and not as obvious.)
If I recall correctly, the original ending of the movie as scripted had Superman showing up in the nick of time to save Lois from the crack in the earth. So pretty much everything happened the same up until that point, except Lois didn't die. I've only skimmed over that script but I will ge giving a closer look soon for a future episode.
I still don't understand why Jimmy was complaining about telephone poles falling over, meaning the second missile hit, but the large crack in the ground didn't reappear...
This looks like a job for… head canon!! My thinking is he had to have dropped back in the timeline early enough to prevent the crack from forming, kind of like a miniature version of what he did with the San Andreas fault the first time around.
Nothing can travel faster than light so he has a speed barrier that he can not pass.There is "hyperspace" in the mythos but he'd have be able to enter that dimension without the machinery to do. Several times, in all the movies and shows, he's flown to the sun. That is eight light minutes away .. How exactly would one go back in time? (shakes head. Not a clue) Worm holes? String theory? No jokes please. He couldn't stop both missiles because the writers didn't want him to? (sorry. being bad.)
Truly you slow the world down spinning 1000 miles an hour, everything and everyone would shoot forward. Also when he puts earth back on speed. All of a sudden the earthquake stops. Huh?
@prodigioussaps cheers... two of my biggest passions the Superman movies and ELO! 😊. I enjoy your analytical videos of the movies, I don't run into many like minded fans these days. I guess they are old movies now, but still hold up for their age. They have so much heart and soul. Just like ELO!
Good question! They never address that. I guess we’re just left to assume that it hit out in the middle of nowhere, so fallout consequences were minimal… probably wouldn’t hold up to scrutiny, though.
It’s evident in the dialog that his dad knew exactly what Kal-El would be capable of doing on Earth, and he spent twelve years training him in the fortress.
There's been different versions of this story told over the years, but in short Jor-El didn't wind up having time and/or was forbidden to build a ship big enough to carry anyone but baby Kal-El.
You can only travel forward in time, not backward, by traveling near the speed of light. This is a proven fact pursuant to Einstein's theory of relativity. Note: Hypothesis and scientific theory are often confused by laypeople.
Let’s talk about the Elephant in the Room. Joe-el says that Kal-el is forbidden to interfere with human history. Sending his Son to Earth is interfering with human history. Training his Son Kal-el to become Superman is interfering with Human history. I could go on but I believe that I made my point. Whoever wrote the script, obviously never read a Superman Comic Book. He just used common knowledge about Superman to write the script. This has always been the problem for both Marvel and DC in doing their movies and tv shows. Superman the Movie has a lot of plot holes in it. As does Part II, Part III, and Part IV.
This has become possibly the NUMBER ONE frequently asked question in the comments:
If he's fast enough to travel back in time, why couldn't Superman stop both missiles?
What do you think?
A little thing called air friction which isn't an issue in space?
just ask Cher she knows
If we look at it from the movie's point of view, how long has he even been Superman for? who or what did he have to counter his powers against? as far as we know it's barely been a few days for him as well, and while there's plenty of urgency is catching the missile, it's also said earlier in the movie that they have "evading" techniques built into them (recall the missile dodged him at first when he was there first to catch it, i think its' a cut scene).
Also, he was trying to use his powers in a limited way to avoid breaking the rules, until he lost Lois and that was the second major loss in his life and earlier in his movie where he was doing the "teaching" with his dad, they specifically broke the time barrier to go to the past and see his Planet before it exploded... (which makes Brandon Routh's cut scene ridicules and pointless), so he broke the rules and did what he was forbidden from doing...
ua-cam.com/video/yavK0mnE3wI/v-deo.html
@@prodigioussaps He couldn't fly that fast in Earth's atmosphere without creating devastating consequences like burning up all of the air from friction or creating super hurricane wind speeds from him pushing the air with his body as he flew. If you notice, he's flying outside of Earth's atmosphere as he's flying that fast.
It’s a great question. To me, he just didn’t yet know how fast he could go. It took the super-emotional break of Lois dying that pushed him to find out. Jor El did say, when he was sending him to Earth, that he will have almost LIMITLESS speed.
Whatever the case, there was something really cool about that shot of him flying behind that missile, trying to grab it, that just thrilled the crap outta me. It’s one of my favourite scenes.
The death of Lois brought out the Super-adrenaline in him.
The emotional impact of Lois dying released his Kryptonian Adrenaline, giving him the extra speed he needed. I thought this was obvious, but what do I know.
and it gave him the idea to try? He may not have known he could travel back and time but had to try, something.
@@kathleenhensley5951 Yes. It completed the story arc of him discovering the full extent of his powers.
Simple. Superman was still recovering from the debilitating effects of kryptonite, which had only moments before totally incapacitated him.
Good one!
I like that excuse.
That works.
That's a great explanation!
There's another video for you - if all these Kryptonite meteorites were always falling to Earth from the explosion (another scientific stretch that an exploded planet at least "28 known galaxies away" would just happen to have meteors shooting out to and reaching specifically Earth), wouldn't Superman be constantly weakened just from the presence of Kryptonite debris around Earth?
His anger when Lois died gave him the extra strength to fly that fast.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again - Superman couldn’t fly fast enough to catch both missiles in time. This is shown after Lois dies. Superman starts flying around the world on an impossible gamble of something that had not been tried before. But remember, he started out rather slowly. It took him 3 hours to make the first trip around the globe. “3 hours?” you ask. “No, it took just a second or two.” True, on film, it appeared to take just a second or two. But what was the Earth doing? It was spinning. It made about 1/8th of a rotation under Superman’s first orbit. At 24 hours per rotation, 1/8th of a rotation is approximately 3 hours. Had the director filmed the sequence in real time, the first orbit alone would have added 3 hours to the film’s running time. The sequence was shown such that you could actually see the Earth rotating - something you normally would not be able to see. His initial speed was a camera trick. It would have taken many hours that he did not have to build up the speed needed to catch both missiles. It just took too much time to build up the speed.
Good point! That’s something very few people have mentioned, the earth’s rotation speed. However I do think this kinda falls under artistic license, because they needed to show the Earth rotating fast enough that the audience could perceive it. Yet another reason to not take what we’re seeing 100% literally, IMO.
And in Superman 2 it takes him several minutes to fly to Paris. But only a few seconds to fly out past the moon. 🤔
Superman slowed down to not damage the missile, the same way he slowed down to catch Lois and even was dropping down to safely catch the falling helicopter. If he moved things too fast, they disintegrate or might explode.
This scene where Superman hears Jor-El has always made me laugh cos basically Supes is saying 'Get lost, dead dad, you don't tell me what to do!' 🤣
Also, Jor-El says 'It is forbidden for you to interfere with human history'. Does this mean going back in time and altering things only? Because surely every time he rescues someone, like the President's plane or Lois & the helicopter, he's interfering with human history!
Yeah the “interfere with human history” thing is a weird line. I suspect they retconned the meaning of that line to add context and tension to this scene, but I’m not sure. If so its original intention may have been that he’s forbidden to interfere with geopolitical conflicts, intervene in wars, etc. … just a theory
@@prodigioussaps Which he completely ignores in the 4th film by making all the countries hand over their Nuclear weapons. Isn't that interfering. Supes definitely had a problem listening to his dead dad! 🤣
Kind of like Doc Brown saying don't interact with anyone, don't do anything, etc., etc. (which is impossible even if you're a hermit), but yet he not only invents a time machine, but also travels in it himself.
I'm amazed by the fact that Krypton was _galaxies_ away from Earth, but somehow the Kryptonians not only knew of its existence but also how "primitive" it was, thousands of years behind. So obviously they would have to have had the technology of vastly advanced space travel, but somehow had only one spaceship built, that for Jor-El's son. And how did he manage to build it in secret? And why were the thousands-of-years advanced Kryptonian elders so stupid as to not recognize the danger to their planet? And why forbid escape for the planet's population?
@Hayden1969-ws4vyCannon Films didn't get the memo.
For what it's worth, flying at near light speed inside the Earth's atmosphere (as opposed to orbiting the planet in the vacuum of space) would ignite the atmosphere and the impact on air molecules would result in a nuclear explosion. The Flash avoids this friction problem via the Speed Force, but Superman doesn't have that luxury.
@@Mirakulus9 This is what I always thought. (In fact, STAR TREK IV broke this rule by having the Bird of Prey go to warp speed while inside Earth’s atmosphere.)
@FrankJReynolds Just playing nerdy devil's advocate... isn't warp speed technically not near or breaking light speed, but warping space? In any event, warping space in a planet's atmosphere does still sound like a bad idea.
he's clearly outside the earths atmosphere.
@@purefoldnz3070 He was outside Earth's atmosphere when he traveled at light speed to travel back in time. But the guys were addressing questions as to why he didn't travel that fast to stop the missile - which was clearly inside Earth's atmosphere.
@@Mirakulus9 well to catch the other rocket he wouldn't even have to come close to the speed of light, the ISS roughly orbits the earth in 90 minutes at 17,500 miles per hour, so he travels faster than that at approx 70,000 mph he could orbit the earth in less than 14 mins if he kept going in the same direction and catch the other rocket coming from the opposite direction of the earth.
The more perplexing issue for me has always been what happened to the missiles when Superman turned back time? Did he stop both from even launching? Also, doesnt Lois berate him for not being there when gas stations are blowing up and power lines falling after he'd reversed time? If he stopped it from happening, why is she talking about those events?
It is confusing, to be sure. It appears he didn’t go back far enough to prevent the whole disaster from happening… he only went back far enough to do something that prevented Lois’s death. Because yeah, based on what Lois and Jimmy say afterwards, the earthquake still happened which means the missile still hit. Also the fact that Jimmy was still left out in the middle of nowhere after being saved from the crumbling dam. Soooo… yeah it’s weird because the backwards footage seems to suggest he’s undoing everything, but apparently he didn’t.
@ChuckM0503 after watching it a few times I wonder if he didn't just reverse the gravitational force of the earth sort of causing it to reverse the damage done by the flood and so forth.
My headcanon was that he can fly that fast in space, but if he were to do that in Earth's atmosphere, the force of a human-sized object going relativistic speeds would do damage to the planet. (The very first XKCD "What If?" comic discusses a baseball going .9c, for instance, and it does not end well)
I suspect its a bit of both. 1 - speed alone isn't enough to deal with the force of the rocket engines on the first missile and he had to be careful not to trigger the thing over New Jersey and 2 - he knew the risks of going back in time by flying that fast, but once Lois dies, he decides to risk accept. I think it was cool because it shows him slowly ramping up his powers as the situation becomes more and more precarious. I love that about Superman. He could solve almost any problem by going back in time but he knows there are consequences - for instance in the Donner cut (I think) when the Damn breaks the indigenous people get their water back but after he turns back time they lose it again. I think I am remembering that correctly ??
I had never thought about this until just now. So, perhaps the speeds he flew at to change the past came about due to his very personal motivation to do with Lois’s death? But then there’s movie story telling which has a logic all of its own. Still, it’s fun to think about it. Thanks for your videos!
Good point, and thanks! 🙏
Some good answers here, but I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this… personally, I always put it down to acceleration. Now we expect there to be cuts in movies, so when we see Superman flying around the world, it's fair to assume it actually took him longer than what we saw in the movie.
Who knows? Maybe his first circle round the earth took a few minutes, with each subsequent circle getting faster and faster until we get to that moment when he's orbiting 7.5 thousand times per second (speed of light). The movie can't really "show" us this in real time, so what we see is a kind of "cinematic shorthand" in super slow motion, then playing in reverse.
Plus, the faster he's going, the longer it would take to slow down, stop, and turn around. So even if he COULD suddenly jump to this vast speed without any acceleration to stop the first missile, he'd then be heading in the wrong direction at a huge speed and would have to stop and do 180°.
But handling the missile would take a great deal of care and you'd really need to match its speed or else the impact of being hit at a high speed could send it veering off in the wrong direction, or cause an explosion.
Finally, another interesting little detail to note/consider about Superman flying around the world is that when he begins going back in time, we only see one set of trails. Though obviously there would be a SECOND Superman there at that time flying in the OPPOSITE direction. I guess we don't see HIS trails because his speed would be (relatively) slower.
Though the very first moment Superman begins going back in time, you should (at least briefly) see BOTH supermen flying away from each other, as they're both doing almost the same speed.
Then again, time and relativity is weird and I don't understand it very well!
Great observations! Cheers 👊
if he flew back in time by flying faster than light , why isn't there a second superman in the past ?
I assume there was. We didn't need to see it.
Logically there should have been two of him at that point, yes. That's always been something that bothered me, but not enough to ruin my immersion.
With the splitting and recombination of Clark and Drunk Superman in Superman III, I think there were two but they recombined before he went to Lois.
@@Scripture-Man OK its official - it's cool to nerd out about this stuff :)
And if he can fly that fast, why did it take him forever to get to Paris?
I heard one interpretation that Superman did not actually reverse the spin of the Earth to go back in time but it was just a visual representation of him entering the time force like the Flash to go back in time and stop the disaster from ever happening.
I can hang with that!
The missile wasn't ballistic, it was a cruise missile, so it had a guidance system. It would have continuously wanted to course correct until it ran out of fuel. He would have had to take it into space himself.
Great point gentleman. Also consider he was recovering from Krypton exposure so all of his abilities were in flux. Superman can absorb solar radiation and convert it into usable energy, but much of that was being used for healing. He was taxing his body beyond whatever limits he knew of. I always say to people, if you have Superman working constantly for hours and days and wait for nightfall, you have a good change of hurting him....but he does have quick recovery and hidden berserker rage which you don't want to be on the wrong end of.
Well said, as usual! 👊 And thanks!
That going to be a tough marriage. "Clark I am not turning 40! You know what you need to do!". Every dang year in early August.
For me, I've always wondered why the nuclear explosion and its effects in the surrounding areas wasn't properly shown aside from the San Andreas fault waking up (perhaps the technical limitations of the SFX). After all, Lex said that the XK-101 missiles had an explosive yield of 500 MEGATONS! That's 10x more powerful than the USSR's Tsar Bomba! I'm pretty sure San Francisco and Los Angeles would've been reached by the blast... 🤔💥
Well, that only raises the question about HOW he could slow down in midflight.
Christopher Reeve will always be the greatest Superman in the movies. Superman: The Movie is the only time the movies got Superman right.
Agree. But just curious, what do you think they got wrong in Superman II?
@@prodigioussaps I enjoyed it but I think the first film is better.
@@prodigioussaps I agree, the first movie is 100% perfect, while the second "movie" is kind of a mish-mash which wasn't really one man's vision and the theatrical release has a lot of stupid Lester moments. Without doubt a fantastic film, just as enjoyable as the first, but the first was pure Donner and was the result of people writing a script and filming that script, as opposed to piecing together a movie from a broken production.
@@Scripture-Man The first movie is the perfect superhero movie.
Observer effect.
After going back in time there are now two Supermen. To minimize impact on the timeline while one Superman runs around fixing things the second is just saving Lois. Eventually the two Supermen will catch up with each other at Lois' car. From 10K up Superman sees himself below with a live Lois and noodles it out, going back in time himself to save Lois, becoming the only Superman, and now Superman has two sets of memories from the same event and that is the only observer paradox.
If Superman goes back and stops the second nuke things get super paradoxed. More importantly Superman is not supposed to stop all bad things from happening, which he could almost do, but that (as with many bad Superman decisions) is the slippery slope that leads to the Justice Lords.
Love this, thanks!
I never questioned it. He seemed to be trying really hard stop just one of them.
The issue of speed has been addressed in the full episode but I’ll add that we wouldn’t want him peeling the atmosphere right off the planet, so he can save his crush.
I mean, he’d certainly score big points with her…right before she died, again.
His speed us virtually limitless. He didnt decide to interfere with Human history til Lois died. Donner does a great job of explaining this. When he flies off in anger you hear his father repeat it is forbidden to interfere with human history. Then he remembers his father Jonathan dying and having all those great powers and he couldn't even save him. This is the pivotal moment he choses human kind over his Kryptonian heritage. In fact earlier in the movie after his first night in the extended scene JorEl says " So you have exposed yourself to the world, So be it" . Remember he was not to interfere with human history but rather let his strength stir others on. I kinda look at this way. Imagine trying to teach a young kid to tie their shoes. Its much easier to just do it for them. Instead of them messing up , or putting them on the wrong feet. Now imagine your running late and your child comes in with two different shoes on the wrong feet with untied laces. JorEl put his son in an impossible situation. Later on intensified when he falls in love and forsakes his destiny. This shows a flawed and learning Superman. Who chose humanly over Krypton. When Lois dies he simply went into another gear
0:36 Superman could have punched through that missile or used his heat vision and not have detonated the warhead since the nuclear weapons don't work like conventional ones.
He couldn't fly that fast in Earth's atmosphere without creating devastating consequences like burning up all of the air from friction or creating super hurricane wind speeds from him pushing the air with his body as he flew. If you notice, he's flying outside of Earth's atmosphere as he's flying that fast.
It's the way the script was written.
well I guess the real answer is instead of turning back to catch the other missile he keeps going in the same direction to come around to the other side of the earth and catch it from the other side, if he was going fast enough. That way if he keeps moving forward in one direction he keeps his momentum and speed instead of stopping.
0:58 Sounds like more moral laziness, any and all non interference policies.
Albert Einstein - 'The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.'
Did Jor El really know all the powers that he would have and their limits? Lois dying caused him to go Super Saiyan.
Well even at 1/5 the speed of light, he'd still be way faster than two land missiles and 'not travel through time'.
Of course I have an issue with him travel so fast, in an atmosphere. Can one imagine the ripple of sonic booms? The power it would generate, and the physical shockwaves through the planet? I suppose no, that wasn't considered.
As fans, we've been making up fan fiction to fix this plot hole for 46 years. 😆 The studio forcing the director to use the expensive special effect designed to go at the end of Superman II and not Superman I because they doubted the already shot 2 would even get a release has been a conundrum for the ages.
Also, what is his propulsion? His mind? He's literally still as he's flying.
I’ve always felt like there’s levels to his powers. For example he can hold and turn a doorknob without it just folding in his hands same way you or I could. It’s not until he applies the pressure that it would crumple whereas us humans could apply pressure all day and nothing happens. So getting further into his powers there’s a level he can casually access and then there’s levels he has to push himself to achieve and it actually takes tremendous intensity on his part. So going back in time is not something he can necessarily just *do* anytime he wants. Also factor in that whole “you’re forbidden to interfere with human history” thing. He knows the he should not act in the capacity of a god. So in the case of Lois dying not only is there the emotional intensity of the moment but also actively defying his father’s edict in that instance because the one life he couldn’t save is one so close to his heart.
Now granted I think this does kind of represent the difficulties of his “Pre-Crisis” power levels and part of why I kind of prefer it to be dialed back a bit. But at the same time a good writer can still make that power level work and also do so in a way where you can still connect with the character and this movie shows that. He’s willing to defy space, time, fate and his own father to save the woman he loves. Pretty relatable if you ask me.
Very well said, thanks!
You give a reasonable explanation. But the number one reason why such explanations and second guesses have to be given is because Superman is nearly a 100-year-old character who has had far more writers and interpretations than any other superhero. DC makes no definite determination of his powers and abilities and in doing so causes the Man of Steel, like no other hero there is, to often be nerfed (strength wise) and dumbed down (intelligence wise) in favor of lesser characters and inadequate writers. In answer to this, DC has merged all interpretations of Superman which only serves to add to the confusion as to what Kal El is capable of doing, because now in one instance, past or present, he lifts entire mountains and in others struggles to lift a lesser weight all for the purpose of telling an insufficient story. And no, Superman is not OP as long as in the same breath there are heroes/villains said to be able to defeat him. Doesn't this then make said hero/villain even more OP and no one complains about it.
Superman The Movie is a Fantasy. Despite what Jor-El says, "This is no Fantasy" The movie doesn't answer every question, and it's not supposed to. Somethings are left up to the viewer's imagination and interpretation.
Yeah, we’re not faulting the filmmakers for not addressing this. This is just something that nerds do.
This is what fans do over their morning coffee and breakfast. We are still at the very beginning of the Space age. We don't even know if there are aliens who could send their son to earth when their planet self-destructs. I want there to be aliens, but we don't know. Superman definitely strays into the fantasy collum more often than not.
@@prodigioussaps yeah 😂
@@kathleenhensley5951 yeah I get it. 😂
I knew this would be the question everybody asks. Interesting to talk about though
He had to guide the missle.
The time it took to guide it safely caused him to be too late to stop the other one.
That feat was early in his career.
He would've been more successful later on.
This is why it's called fantasy (despite Jor-El's opening line ha ha), not science fiction. Nothing is ever really explained, you just have to go with it.
It is illegal to change the past, but he did it anyway in that one instance.
You know i love these movies (Yes even 3 and 4) and i just love how you guys nerd out about this stuff!! I wish my brain could go as deep as you guys, but most of the time i just enjoy what I'm seeing and go with it. Unless it's completely stupid and makes no sense at all.
Cool, thanks Adrian! Cheers 👊
Could this issue be the result of the decision (made late in the filmmaking process) of having Superman turning back time be the ending of the first film instead of the second? Maybe as originally written, the difference wasn’t so apparent? (And even if it was, the scenes would have been in different films, and not as obvious.)
If I recall correctly, the original ending of the movie as scripted had Superman showing up in the nick of time to save Lois from the crack in the earth. So pretty much everything happened the same up until that point, except Lois didn't die. I've only skimmed over that script but I will ge giving a closer look soon for a future episode.
At that speed in the earth's atmosphere he would probably create a huge fireball
I still don't understand why Jimmy was complaining about telephone poles falling over, meaning the second missile hit, but the large crack in the ground didn't reappear...
This looks like a job for… head canon!! My thinking is he had to have dropped back in the timeline early enough to prevent the crack from forming, kind of like a miniature version of what he did with the San Andreas fault the first time around.
@prodigioussaps ah, thanks - makes sense.
Nothing can travel faster than light so he has a speed barrier that he can not pass.There is "hyperspace" in the mythos but he'd have be able to enter that dimension without the machinery to do. Several times, in all the movies and shows, he's flown to the sun. That is eight light minutes away .. How exactly would one go back in time? (shakes head. Not a clue) Worm holes? String theory?
No jokes please.
He couldn't stop both missiles because the writers didn't want him to? (sorry. being bad.)
Truly you slow the world down spinning 1000 miles an hour, everything and everyone would shoot forward. Also when he puts earth back on speed. All of a sudden the earthquake stops. Huh?
Nice analogy... I like that... it makes sense... about the all important "forbidden to interfere with human history"
Thanks Paul - btw I like your profile picture 👊
@prodigioussaps cheers... two of my biggest passions the Superman movies and ELO! 😊.
I enjoy your analytical videos of the movies, I don't run into many like minded fans these days. I guess they are old movies now, but still hold up for their age. They have so much heart and soul. Just like ELO!
Agreed. Jeff Lynne is a genius! I love the stuff he did with Traveling Wilburys, too. Thanks - cheers man.
@@prodigioussaps he is indeed!! Glad you see itv too he is criminally underrated as a musician.. Saw them 5 times since they reformed! Epic!
Isn't Lex Luther allowed to get stuff wrong?
It was just practice for Supes 4 when he had to become a missile wrangler. 🤷🏿♂️
Ha, yes. “Superman IV: Missile Wrangler” might have been a better subtitle than “Quest For Peace”
Simple; Kryptonian andrenaline
What about the fallout from the bomb that did land?
Good question! They never address that. I guess we’re just left to assume that it hit out in the middle of nowhere, so fallout consequences were minimal… probably wouldn’t hold up to scrutiny, though.
How would his father have taught him!? They don’t fly on krypton !
It’s evident in the dialog that his dad knew exactly what Kal-El would be capable of doing on Earth, and he spent twelve years training him in the fortress.
Why did superman's parents build a ship for the whole family? This way they could make sure Clark was raised right
There's been different versions of this story told over the years, but in short Jor-El didn't wind up having time and/or was forbidden to build a ship big enough to carry anyone but baby Kal-El.
Plot armor!!!!
You can only travel forward in time, not backward, by traveling near the speed of light. This is a proven fact pursuant to Einstein's theory of relativity. Note: Hypothesis and scientific theory are often confused by laypeople.
Alrighty. We’re not debating real world physics here, but thanks. 🙏
Think you guys are seriously overthinking it
That’s the whole point!
When he was forbidden to interfere in human history it meant he couldn't go back in time or break the time barrier.
Let’s talk about the Elephant in the Room. Joe-el says that Kal-el is forbidden to interfere with human history. Sending his Son to Earth is interfering with human history. Training his Son Kal-el to become Superman is interfering with Human history. I could go on but I believe that I made my point. Whoever wrote the script, obviously never read a Superman Comic Book. He just used common knowledge about Superman to write the script. This has always been the problem for both Marvel and DC in doing their movies and tv shows. Superman the Movie has a lot of plot holes in it. As does Part II, Part III, and Part IV.
I’m not sure I’m following your logic here. It’s not like comic books don’t have plot holes.