I was 14 when I walked into Calvary Chapel in 1981 to watch a Christian band perform. I kept coming for months to watch the concerts and I kept hearing the gospel presentation. One evening it clicked and I responded and received Christ. I attended just about every service they offered during the week and grew to love the Word of God and the ministry. I got to know Pastor Chuck personally and even attended their Bible College. I’ve spent my whole life loving God and His Word and telling people about Jesus because of the firm foundation that was built by God using Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith. The main thing that I will always credit Pastor Chuck with is that he taught us to love to study God’s Word.
You're so right! I went to the CC in San Diego (North Park) that became Horizons in 1979-80 (can't remember the exact date). I was weary of the Roman Catholic Church's practices and practically no bible study. Mike Mackintosh was the pastor, who was part of the early Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa the same time as Greg Laurie. The Wednesday night concerts were great, no doubt, but the truly important power of the Calvary Chapel movement was the extensive bible teaching. The typical service included an hour long exposition of scriptures--verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book. During my Naval career (21 years) I often found myself without a "church." The small group of christians on-base or on a ship would be a mix of denominations. People would ask if I had gone to seminary and I would have to explain that I just attend(ed) Calvary Chapel for several years and we had a culture of reading your bible. Big props to my pastor in Monterey, CA, Bill Holdridge, who was instrumental in grounding me in the doctrines of Grace (New Covenent). Calvary's phenomenal growth to me was all about the Holy Spirit guiding the believer to immerse themselves in Scripture. I'm now Lutheran (LCMS) with a deep respect for the Reformed, thanks to the early White Horse Inn (Rod Rosenbladt & Michael Horton). CTM is the new WHI for me.
@@patrickwinter7623 Hello brother. I appreciate your comment and your love for the word of God. I am Reformed and I want to learn about and challenge myself with other Christian doctrines in prayer that God guide me into truth and correct my wrong thinking which I think we all have to some degree. Soli Deo Gloria!
I was in Northern California in the late 1960’s as part of the ‘hippie movement’. Your analysis is spot on. Such a selfish, ungodly time. I was introduced to the Lord in Escondido, California in 1974. No longer a ‘hippie,’ but not mainstream either. And you’re right, I grew up! By the way, the conservative church I attended accepted me 100%.
I believe that 'movement' did more harm than good. The theme of the 'Jesus Movement' was: "When they don't want the Jesus they find, give them the Jesus they want". The American Church you walk into on Sunday morning is the result of that movement.
A-MEN I agree, please watch this video. Lonnie Frisbee was a false teacher basically because of the sinful fruit of his life. Didn't mean he wasn't saved, but he was thoroughly disqualified to be a pastor, which he operated as, and it looks bad on Chuck Smith not having discernment. But its been used as a "see sin is ok!" example. ua-cam.com/video/SV3791o-d48/v-deo.html
Also Jonathan Roumie prayed TO Dead Lonnie Frisbee at his grave to get his "blessing" on the project. The movie is not a work of Christ. It's more likely an angel of light to confuse Christians even more. ua-cam.com/video/tag8vrZFkhs/v-deo.html
Your closing points were great. I have felt like a complete rebel/outcast in most churches in the last 15 years from my early 20s to my mid 30s as someone who wasn't raised in the church; is KJV Only, prefers Hymns and/or Psalmodys, is patriarchal, more traditional. And every time I approach the church with that, i am met with well...that is unusual....we sing these Bethel/Hillsong songs, read NIV/NLT, and use the fog machines for you. I’m like I didn’t become a Christian and go to church to listen to christianese rock music. I went for the real deal.
If you're KJV only you might be interested in the James White debate on the KJV and why the LSB is closer to the original Hebrew and Greek. Very interesting stuff. It's on UA-cam.
You’re much kinder than me Jon 😂 I was not a big fan of the movie although it’s most certainly the best produced Christian movie to date. I think people do think it’s a great evangelism tool and it’s devoid of the gospel so that’s a huge issue. Saying the sinner’s prayer a second before you’re baptized isn’t how you’re saved. It promotes emotionalism, easy believing, an all-love Jesus with no repentance. I think it’s yet another sign of a dying Christian culture gasping for relevance in a secularized society. No we don’t need another “Jesus Revolution”. We need qualified pastors preaching God’s word without fear and true born-again believers living all of their lives to the glory of God, proclaiming Christ and him crucified without nuance and apologies.
Was the thief at the cross not a true believer? What additional hoops does one need to jump through before they are a true Christian? This reformed belief that somehow repentance and faith is not enough is very arrogant and frankly putrid in my mind. I doubt I will ever subscribe to Calvinist doctrines, but I am still a believer and have been for 20+ years. It all started with a simple prayer of repentance and faith. I'm glad I didn't end up in a reformed church, sounds like they would have tried to convince me I wasn't really a Christian
Thanks Jon, excellent commentary, and spot on as always. I just saw this movie this weekend. I don't like the casual nature toward worship that was introduced by the Jesus revolution. I think that it is not properly reverential toward God. However, this weekend my "traditional" Presbyterian church gave a message that was insultingly simple. And I saw the broadcast from last week of a friend's more casual church yesterday. I didn't like the contemporary, inappropriately casual dress, music, worship, and delivery of the message. But the teaching was outstanding. This contrast of the two churches is something that I won't soon forget, and is a lesson for me.
I remember at the time Pastor John had a totally different take on the movement or rather the Calvary Chapel contingent. I will have to dig up the video. Edit: The film was called "A Venture In Faith" from 1992.
@@banemaler wow, yes I found this... ua-cam.com/video/8YH7TZkn45M/v-deo.html I don't fault him for evolving on the issue as I think he probably matured and saw what the movement did to the Church in a negative way. But thank you for pointing out. Very interesting.
@@692MOM I am having trouble finding a clip of his remarks. It may have been at the same time he addressed the asbury revival. But he basically echoed what he said in the clip I posted above about the movement itself. He no longer thinks it was a positive thing.
I’m going to see the film today. So I can’t comment about it yet. I was saved in 1971 when the “Jesus Movement “ swept into our church. (Long Island). I knew nothing about its beginnings. I guess the thing I feel you cannot take out is the fact that it was supernatural. Many of my friends gave their lives to Christ at just the mention of his name. It really was a supernatural outpouring of the Holy Spirit. (At least my experiences were). Many of us are still living for the Lord today. I don’t think it was because of how people dressed or anything like that. For me-it was a pure act of God. 😊
I agree with you. I lived in Southern California at the time, 1974 for me, but didn't live as a hippie, although i previously had; and i assume (as i haven't seen the movie) that i didn't experience what the film depicts. It was God, and God alone!
I am one of the few who have NOT seen the movie, yet. However I was a Calvary Chapel pastor for 10 years, 79-89. And I did visit Calvary before the tent and saw both Chuck and Lonnie in action. You never were specific about Chuck and his theology and/or preaching. He never changed his preaching before or after Calvary. He was a verse by verse through the Bible teacher. One other modification in the early days was he sat on a stool and preached. He would sit, preach for over an hour. He was pretrib and big on end time teaching from Revelation and the OT.
You must have some stories. I'm not sure what you expected me to be specific on? I agree with you that Smith was verse by verse and had orthodox theology (I quibble with some secondary matters).
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast I am also a Calvary Chapel pastor and i think you were very gracious towards the movement...thank you. P.S. I have been a follower and watching your videos for about three years Jon and have been blessed as you have given updates on what's happening in evangelicalism.
"They grew up". Exactly. This is why adults don't let children make life altering decisions. It's why Church leaders should not have allowed children to make Church altering decisions. The fact that 'the movement' is still around is not an indicator of its validity in terms of doctrine or the Christian faith. "A little leaven leavens the whole lump."
Thanks for sharing about the fertility issues. My wife and I are on year 5 of trying for children. It has been very trying as everyone around us is having children and getting pregnant. We tried iui for a couple months but then we quit. I'll pray for you brother.
Praying for you as well. 🙏🏻 My daughter and her husband are also having infertility issues. They are starting the process this month for IVF. They did IUI three times.
My youngest was married for 10 years, had adopted 3 older children, and were then blessed with a sweet baby girl of their own. Now, 2 years later, she is expecting again. God is good. (If you look up infertility, under functional medicine, they fit all the issues of struggling to conceive. But they made some healthy changes and also job changes, and I believe that really helped; of course, God blessing them also) I am praying for you, may God open your wife's womb.
@@suzannefoust3156 what do they plan to do with the other fertilized eggs once they've chosen one to be implanted? Will they be washed down the drain?
I attended Calvary Chapel for a few years. This particular one went towards the Hebrew Roots movement, so they weren't representative. I learned a lot listening to Skip Heitzig during those times. I just don't agree with their dispensationalism and dislike of the doctrines of grace. Chuck Smith also said some positive things about Charles Finney....not a big fan of Finney. I have some friends who are Calvary Chapel and I respect them.
Thanks Jon for this very fair assessment of the beginnings of the Calvary Chapel movement from someone who was a small child at Calvary Costa Mesa before, during and after Lonnie. I think the Genius referenced in your talk was the Holy Spirit Himself leading and orchestrating. By the way, contrary to what may have been communicated in the movie, Chuck was being well used as an instrumental teacher and pastor before Lonnie and I don't believe the congregation ever stopped singing hymns. Blessings to you and your wife.
With respect to seeking around 11:00. This comes up a lot in reformed circles. Romans 3 says no man seeks God, Matthew 7 says seek and ye shall find. It is theologically correct to say that the sinful heart seeks sin, but because God does redeem sinners, the category of seekers does exist. A seeker doesn’t seek God because “they’re good on the inside.” A seeker seeks God because God’s invisible qualities have been clearly seen from what has been made. This is something I think adult converts get that cradle Christians may struggle with. Looking back on your life, you can see God at work bringing you to faith while you were in your sins. The takeaway shouldn’t be that “everyone is basically good.” But people looking into Jesus who have sub-Christian ideas or are biblically illiterate is something we have to expect in witness encounters (think Jordan Peterson fans).
Good Fight Ministries has two good videos on this topic. First video is called Jesus Revolution movie review which is over all review and the second is focused on Lonnie Frisbee. The fact the Lonnie calls himself a mystic and Jonathan Roumie says he is a Catholic mystic and laid on Lonnie’s grave to connect with him is quite problematic. And Greg Laurie is so appreciative of Jonathan, thinks he’s great is also problematic.
The Jesus Revolution touched diwn on Gordon College campus from 1977-1988 with Christian Rock Groups: Randy Stonehill, Petra, Rick Cua and later GlAD, Micheal W.Smith , 2nd Chaper of Acts. This cultural Revolutiin continues with Baptisms in 2022, amd 2023 at my relatives Church at Falmoth Baptost Church woth Baptisms in Martha's Vinyard Sound. So thankful for this movement of the Holy Spirit which continues the work of George Whitfield from about 300 years ago Praise God for Valvary Chapel!
Lonnie, on his deathbed, said he realized how "destructive" his sex life was. But that's not necessarily repentance. And even if he repented of it, he did not repent of his divination and drug use. His "conversion" took place under the influence of LSD, so he did not "begin well." His "ministry" was under the influence of false spirits, not the Holy Spirit. He died without having renounced his self-anointed prophetic voice of the Church, replete with "slaying people in the spirit" with his leather mantles. I could go on and on, but Lonnie was not a Christian. To compare his ministry to God "using Pharaoh" is not a good comparison. Pharaoh was not in ministry preaching Yahweh. Rather, we should go to Acts 16 and see how Paul handles someone with a false spirit who is pointing people to God and the ministry of Paul and Silas. God does not give a ministry to an unbeliever.
I admittedly don't know a lot about what he did, but I would be very careful accusing someone else of divination without strong grounds. Christians who don't believe in cessationism are still Christians.
@@davissalaki8703 I agree that Charismaticism does not necessarily preclude salvation. However, I would invite you to do more research. Lonnie often referred to himself as a "Catholic mystic," and the LSD was used to "gain access" to "God." As you know, pharmakeia can be translated as drug use or sorcery; the two are commonly linked. That's because the drugs were/are used as a gateway to false spirits.
There's no parallel between Lonnie and Pharoah other than the fact that they both were not redeemed and God used them. That's it. You're example from Acts is a better parallel perhaps. In Smith's defense, Lonnie happened to enter the scene at at time when he appeared to be repentant and to Smith's credit they parted ways when he started faith healing. God used Lonnie (according to the film) to attract people to the church. While there they got to hear Smith preach from Scripture and many were converted. God uses even the sin of others to accomplish His purposes. That doesn't make what Lonnie did legitimate ministry by any stretch though.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Jon, you said Lonnie "began well," which led me to believe that you thought he was a believer. How can an unbeliever "begin well" by being converted on an LSD trip? So, I assumed your comparison to Pharaoh was that God can use "flawed" believers the way He used Pharaoh. Can you see why I am confused by your words? lol.
@@carolberubee I don't remember saying that? I know I said he contributed to helping the Calvary Chapel movement. Either way I'm not disagreeing with your assessment.
Greg Laurie recently stated that he believes Lonnie repented as he was dying of AIDS and believes he was saved. That to me is the most credible take I have heard from a first person testimony. It is also where that quote that he was looking forward to another Jesus Revolution came from. Greg said that he and Chuck heard him say this but didn't believe he would ever leave his hospital bed having lost significant weight. Most of the people questioning Lonnie didn't know him in his last days. Just a clarification.
There was another man by the name of Brant Baker who had a popular ministry called Shekinah Fellowship that operated in southern California during the early to mid 1970s. Brant was very charismatic and was known for holding healing and miracle services. Brant professed to be a Christian after coming out of a homosexual lifestyle. It's been many, many years since I've thought about him so there are details about him that have faded, but he was fascinated with Kathryn Kuhlman and used to study her carefully in order to adopt her healing and miracle services style. If I recall, Lonnie Frisbee was also heavily influenced by Kuhlman (and I've heard that Benny Hinn used to attend her meetings as well to learn from her). But in the Revolution movie, (if I recall correctly?) Lonnie alluded to Kuhlman's influence on him. Lonnie and Brant were nearly identical in their ambitions to have a prominent healing and miracle ministry like Kuhlman's, and they both succumbed to pride. Brant went back into the homosexual community and he would party with them at night, then hold his healing and miracle services the next night. He eventually relocated to Florida and I'm guessing that he and Lonnie were at least in the same orbit. Brant also died of aids, like Lonnie, in Florida, although I've heard he repented before he died.
I wish the movie would have highlighted Chuck Smith’s teaching. His teaching style was very low-key and he was more of a verse by verse chapter by chapter teacher.
Why don’t we say, @ look what God has done? What He is doing?” Instead we look at man & criticize or give him glory 😒I listen to Calvary Chapel Jack Hibbs because he stays and fights with God’s Word for the people around him.
Dude, I have a testimony about IUI. Me and the wife couldn’t get pregnant for 2 years. We tried IUI for one month and it failed. They recommended doing it 3 times in a row but I said no thanks. I did this because I really believed God wanted us to not lose hope. The following month, we got pregnant NATURALLY! Not to knock anyone who does IUI, but I just think it’s crazy how our story turned out.
@@elainelight9286 From Mayo Clinic: intrauterine insemination (IUI) - a type of artificial insemination - is a procedure for treating infertility. Sperm that have been washed and concentrated are placed directly in your uterus around the time your ovary releases one or more eggs to be fertilized.
I agree with where you land on this, Jon. I was surprised by the film; it was better than I expected it would be but I probably won’t hype to the degree some will, and that’s okay. It was a docudrama about Calvary Chapel and a small circle of its leaders. If it starts some discussions that’s great, but I wouldn’t think of it as an evangelistic tool in most cases. I came to the Lord a few years after the period depicted in the film, and I lived in another part of the country. I felt a hint of nostalgia for that time and the beginning of my walk with Jesus.
This is my concern. Like the Billy Graham crusades, there may be some genuine conversions, but we have to look at the bigger picture. BG did MUCH harm to evangelicalism and much of the time he did not adhere to biblical doctrine. God saving people during a movement does not legitimize the movement. It just reminds us that God calls people in all circumstances. I think there's a bigger issue here. The image of Christ was changed for many because of this movement of the 'Jesus people.' Christian music was also changed. And not for the better.
This movement has bad fruit. America became less godly, rock and roll replaced the God honoring hymns, Lonnie was gay, Chuck set a false date for the rapture and Greg Laurie teaches cheap grace and that Alice Cooper is a committed Christian. None of this would have flown in the 1950's but today people love it so this has led to Andy Stanley playing Led Zeppelin to open up his "worship service".
Exactly! I have a dear friend who attended Laurie’s church for years. She left last year. He’s a false teacher, and the Alice Cooper thing is mind boggling.
Since when did Chuck Smith ever set a date for the rapture? I've sat under five different Calvary chapel pastors and they always teach clearly that no one can know the day or the hour of Christ return. Also, as John stated in some answers to questions here Chuck Smith clearly taught book by book verse by verse through the entire Bible. That's one of the best things I took away from my Calvary Chapel experience and that's how I study and have taught others to do. Go to the Bible first and then decide on what people are saying.
The question must be, what does God want? What does He command? Here is where the regulative principle is helpful. We are on solid ground only when we look for guidance in holy scripture and do not allow what he does not command. God is the only seeker we ought to be trying to please. The reformers had it right, as expressed in the Westminster Confession, based on this and many other scriptures. May the fear of God be revived, not the Jesus revolution. “But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:23-4
5:55 from a consistent Calvinistic perspective not only CAN a person be used by God but EVERY person is ALWAYS used by God as literally everything that ever happens has been perfectly decreed to happen in accordance with His perfect will. So then the question is, “how has God decreed that this person and this movie is to be used for His divine purposes? Did God use Frisbee to share the gospel with His elect or did God use frisbee to share a false gospel with the reprobate?” ☕️ peace.
Brother, I live outside of Albany and you're about 90 minutes from me. Would love to grab some coffee sometime, perhaps when I'm in the Mid Hudson for work. Let me know how to connect with you.
@@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 Frisbee wrote in his book: "God is clear in the Bible that the wages of sin is death ... I am totally forgiven by my Lord, but I am also paying the consequences of my sin even right now." Frisbee was also outspoken at the end of his life about homosexuality. He wrote: "Some not only embrace the lifestyle, but actively, willingly and creatively attempt to promote the gay agenda, therefore becoming dark evangelists. ... Every pedophile in the world is a dark evangelist. ... Right now Satan is attempting to sell homosexuality to the whole world, not just America. He wants to destroy Christianity, the family unit and really to destroy mankind." Yet Frisbee ended his comments on a merciful note: "I'm saying all this without wanting to condemn anyone, but to speak the truth in love. I am saying: Turn to Jesus, because He is the only One who can deliver you." -- www.charismanews.com/culture/91715-god-used-lonnie-frisbee-powerfully-despite-his-flaws
Salvation is irrevocable no matter what heinous sins a person does before or after the new birth. Works can neither save or unsave. My issue with Lonnie is was he ever saved to begin with. His testimony was being saved while tripping on acid, he professed to being a mystic and hypnotist before AND after conversion (on video), and he "preached" under the influence of drugs. Personally, I found his sermon I watched last week to be uninspired and rambling. Only God knows his eternal destination. 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 KJV If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] *_If any man's work shall be burned,_* he shall suffer loss: *_but he himself shall be saved;_* yet so as by fire.
@@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 There were multiple witnesses to that, DW, and you know it. You've been given their names. Scripture requires a matter to be settled on the testimony of two or three witnesses. If you have evidence to the contrary, present it. Until then, get out of the way between repentant sinners and the cross.
My understanding is that Calvary Chapel deny that we who are saved have eternal life; they reject the Gospel Promise of eternal security, which also means they rely on something unreliable instead of solely relying on Lord Jesus. First John ch5 v0-15 specify that those who do not believe we have eternal life have made God a liar because they do not believe the testimony which God has given about His Son. How much of the Gospel Promise can Calvary Chapel deny, and yet they still believe that same promise?
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Thanks for responding. When I read your response, I asked myself "How can that be true? Over the course of some weeks and months I debated a man on the topic of the Doctrine Of Eternal Security, and he had learned from Calvary Chapel that one is only secure if they themselves abide in Christ, but there is no guarantee that a believer will abide." In God's Biblical Doctrine, a genuine believer is guaranteed to abide, and those who do not abide were never genuine believers; we must be sure to abide by genuine belief in the genuine Gospel. In Chuck's doctrine, a genuine believer can stop abiding and therefor forfeit their salvation which was "eternally secure" so long as they had continued to abide. When I searched for "Calvary Chapel on eternal security", I found this: QUOTE In the article, Smith writes: I tell people that, of course, I believe in eternal security. As long as I abide in Christ, I’m eternally secure. As long as I abide in Him, He’s going to keep me from falling and present me faultless before His glorious presence. I believe that and I experience God’s security. END QUOTE There is a link to the article (I probably cannot post a link here), but the page was blank, so I cannot double check the quote. The link does lead to a Calvary Chapel page, but whatever was once on the page is no longer up. However, the quote is exactly, precisely, the same doctrine that the man I was debating told me he had learned from Calvary Chapel, and it is a rejection of eternal security, and it is also self-reliance rather than reliance on Lord Jesus. I think the correct lesson to take from all this, is thus: that if we draw the line at the Gospel and do so in accordance with Scripture, then we get a clear view of the spiritual landscape around us. Jon, I appreciate that you keep the Gospel as the top priority above everything else, even while you address the everything else (so to speak). I know this is an unpleasant matter, but it is a matter of keeping the Gospel at the top. "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my student." - Lord Jesus My friend is sentimentally attached to Calvary Chapel. If he is asking for the Truth, he is going to receive Biblical correction. If he remains deceived, then such circumstance must come, but woe to me if it comes by way of me being too shy to accept the truth about Calvary Chapel. I'm glad we are drawing a line against Wokeness, but we also need to draw a line against the false gospel of self-reliance, and not only when it is comfortable to do so. Also, noticing their false gospel, gives us clarity as to the spiritual character of it all, which is rather important in our context, and lets us draw the right lessons from the film.
I may have been taking the lesson from it that I wanted to, but I came away thinking that the strongest theme was "God works through flawed people." Not a fan of some of the individual lines of dialogue but I've seen way worse "Christian" (the genre) movies for sure.
If your wife wants to get pregnant soon, tell her to eat only meat, butter and eggs for a month. The carnivore diet is proving to be the best at encouraging fertility. But that's not what I wanted to say. I just wanted to say that I lived through the Jesus movement and remember it a little fuzzily, but that's when my sister got The Message and we were both thrilled to actually read something we could understand since the old King James was our only other choice back then.
I haven't watched this movie so I can't speak to it. But I do know that so many Christians have no idea what a movie is even supposed to be. They seem to think if it doesn't have an altar call or salvation scene, it's not a Christian movie. Plus, some of these things have looked so cheesy. Watching trailers has been enough to put me off.
14:12 And that’s what bothers me about that kind of church. They often have the same sort of superiority that they seek to destroy in the older folk. (#notall)
The wisdom of the ages..... Do you mean the wisdom that gave us WW-1 or WW-2? Do you mean the wisdom that gave us Korea and Vietnam? Do you mean the fear of the nuclear bomb that was produced by political institutions, or the fear of the draft that ordered us to kill our neighbors. No Jon, you don't get it but, shit was spiritually bad for us young people in the 1960s. Our fathers who were drafted in mass all had PTSD; and were not emotionally available as they spent their nights reliving the horrors of the battlefield. We were looking for something to distract us from the Void in our hearts. We weren't Bolshevik revolutionaries; it's just that the establishment had lost its credibility. We were left to find our own way looking for a new pardine. so, we experimented with many pseudo-solutions until a number of us found Jesus and a good Father in God. You are too young to understand how abandoned my generation felt. We hippies were doing our emotionally teenage best to build a society, where the "Rational" regular society had failed us. Who are you to judge us until you have walked in our sandals. Jon, I find that your world view is about the dualistic dichotomy of left verses right. The "Charismatic" Jesus People who had tried this this ideological dualism found it to be unfulfilling.
Jon, slow down when reading. Read like a newscaster, or a trained actor reading a book, or a pastor you know of who reads the Bible well. At 27:53 you make it sound as if the "Although" belongs to the previous sentence, when it is actually the start of a new sentence. And then you omit the "non-" from "nondenominational denominations". I think the problem is that people try to get their vocal apparatus to say the words as fast as their eye is scanning them, and the vocal apparatus needs more time to plan its movements. Words get missed, or completely different words substituted. Intonation comes out wrong, creating ups and downs that suggest a different meaning from what the writer intended. The result is that we struggle to double-guess what you are saying: "Hmm, that sounds odd. Perhaps he meant X instead of Y. Or is that supposed to be a new sentence instead of the tail end of the previous one?" etc.
Could it be individuals sometimes are searcher for something transcendence,some individuals look for something to make them respectable, some people are looking for legitimacy,some in -dividuals are looking for affirmation,some are looking to create a idol.When you look into the word of ADONAI you come to a pass that says you need to agree with ADONAI about our in- herent state of affairs,or attempt to remake AD- ONAI into your image.Houston we have a problem 🤔 😏 🙄
May I just say I do not believe Frizbee was sent by God. His word says, "But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. " [1Co 5:11 NKJV] A lot of this was done under another spirit, another Jesus. To see it this way brings clarity to me. Only eternity knows if he ever received Christ.
I think a Christian can act in a way contrary to their convictions. It must be possible, after all we see Paul writing to the Corinthians who were not living in accordance with what is right conduct. Nevertheless we should not keep company with anyone who practices those types of things. That’s not to say they aren’t a believer, but we should not keep company with them.
@@JonathanGrandt My point is if God sent him to lead revival it would contradict His word and warning; there's a reason why we are to stay away. Also, I hate God is depicted in many circles of failing to sanctify HIs children. If we are without discipline we are illegitimate -Hebrews 12:6-8.
@@mascot8969 Frisbee lived in the Christian spotlight from 1968 to 1993. If he actually was sent by God, I believe most folks would point to the early Jesus Movement period -- roughly 1968-1972 -- as the best evidence. We know he died of AIDS in 1993 and was diagnosed with AIDS in 1990. It's reasonable to suggest he contracted HIV in the 80s at the height of the epidemic. The earliest documented report I've seen of his gay activity while ministering was a liaison exposed while he was with Wimber at Vineyard. That would be in the first half of the '80s. That's a full 10+ years after he was the spark that put Calvary Chapel on the map. So, do you have solid evidence of Frisbee being "sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner" prior to what we know from the '80s? If not, it appears you are backdating his known sinful behavior over a decade to prove God did not send him. That's neither logical nor fair.. Have there been no other men who were called, served faithfully and later fell away? How are fellow believers supposed to not keep company with a brother who is living faithfully today, but will, at some unknown time in the future, become "sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner"? It seems like we'd still need the gift of prophecy operative in the church to pull that off,
I need to listen again, as I believe you are doing the best to be fair to both sides. But we didn't dress nicely, suits and dresses and think ourselves better, we dressed in saved clothes, to honor God. We didn't disdain visitors, but we wanted respect for our church service, again, to worship and honor God. Maybe we were stuffy about singing hymns and Psalms, but again, attempting to honor and worship God, follow His Word. If you disagree, go to the pastor, make an appointment. Go to a church meeting, bring possible problems in a right way. Frisbee was an unrepentant homosexual, how does that honor God? Yes, we all are still sinners, all in need of grace, dsily; but we are to be searching our hearts for error, sin, and go to the Lord. Repent, let the Lord change your heart, order your desires. Seek to honor God with your life. Hope this isn't a rant, but I am having a hard time finding a Bible based church in our new home. Frustrating to find so much wokeness, charismania, and error...not looking for perfect, just want to worship and fellowship.
I do not know what "saved clothes" are, but I do know we should not spread falsehoods like "Frisbee was an unrepentant homosexual." Let Lonnie speak: "God is clear in the Bible that the wages of sin is death ... I am totally forgiven by my Lord, but I am also paying the consequences of my sin even right now." Frisbee was also outspoken at the end of his life about homosexuality. He wrote: "Some not only embrace the lifestyle, but actively, willingly and creatively attempt to promote the gay agenda, therefore becoming dark evangelists. ... Every pedophile in the world is a dark evangelist. ... Right now Satan is attempting to sell homosexuality to the whole world, not just America. He wants to destroy Christianity, the family unit and really to destroy mankind." Yet Frisbee ended his comments on a merciful note: "I'm saying all this without wanting to condemn anyone, but to speak the truth in love. I am saying: Turn to Jesus, because He is the only One who can deliver you." www.charismanews.com/culture/91715-god-used-lonnie-frisbee-powerfully-despite-his-flaws
As someone who was saved in a Calvary Chapel in California in the next generation after the Jesus Movement (1984), I think you are a little off in your evaluation. I hear your Calvinist leaning coming out which most Calvary Chapels are not. You suggest that the church was allowing the hippies to determine how church should be and I see it as Pastor Chuck sensing a move of the Holy Spirit and submitted to His work. God's work is not as much about what happened in the late 60s early 70s, but the fruit born out this movement. Read the book by Pastor Chuck called Harvest. If you do, you will read about my pastor, Raul Ries.
My whole point is that Smith *didn't* let the hippies determine things when it came to essentials and helped transition them to being productive members of society. I have a lot of respect for Chuck Smith.
If you want to ignore 1st Corinthians 14 that's your prerogative, but I would be careful accusing other Christians of heresy for following the text with a sincere heart.
@@davissalaki8703 1st Corinthians 14 records what happened then. It's part of the historical record. I believe every word of it. What I do not believe is that you have any of the apostolic gifts. The Bible has already been confirmed. It is sufficient by itself and needs no further confirmation. Believe it or perish. Luke 16:27-31 (NKJV): Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
@@ThomasCranmer1959 Does a person need to agree with Calvinism in order to be saved? if a person must agree with Calvinism in order to be saved then anyone who denies Calvinism is not saved. But if a person does not need to agree with Calvinism then God has decreed for MANY of His people to deny the gospel.
I was 14 when I walked into Calvary Chapel in 1981 to watch a Christian band perform. I kept coming for months to watch the concerts and I kept hearing the gospel presentation.
One evening it clicked and I responded and received Christ.
I attended just about every service they offered during the week and grew to love the Word of God and the ministry. I got to know Pastor Chuck personally and even attended their Bible College.
I’ve spent my whole life loving God and His Word and telling people about Jesus because of the firm foundation that was built by God using Calvary Chapel and Chuck Smith.
The main thing that I will always credit Pastor Chuck with is that he taught us to love to study God’s Word.
You're so right! I went to the CC in San Diego (North Park) that became Horizons in 1979-80 (can't remember the exact date). I was weary of the Roman Catholic Church's practices and practically no bible study. Mike Mackintosh was the pastor, who was part of the early Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa the same time as Greg Laurie. The Wednesday night concerts were great, no doubt, but the truly important power of the Calvary Chapel movement was the extensive bible teaching. The typical service included an hour long exposition of scriptures--verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book. During my Naval career (21 years) I often found myself without a "church." The small group of christians on-base or on a ship would be a mix of denominations. People would ask if I had gone to seminary and I would have to explain that I just attend(ed) Calvary Chapel for several years and we had a culture of reading your bible. Big props to my pastor in Monterey, CA, Bill Holdridge, who was instrumental in grounding me in the doctrines of Grace (New Covenent). Calvary's phenomenal growth to me was all about the Holy Spirit guiding the believer to immerse themselves in Scripture. I'm now Lutheran (LCMS) with a deep respect for the Reformed, thanks to the early White Horse Inn (Rod Rosenbladt & Michael Horton). CTM is the new WHI for me.
@@patrickwinter7623 Hello brother. I appreciate your comment and your love for the word of God.
I am Reformed and I want to learn about and challenge myself with other Christian doctrines in prayer that God guide me into truth and correct my wrong thinking which I think we all have to some degree.
Soli Deo Gloria!
I was in Northern California in the late 1960’s as part of the ‘hippie movement’. Your analysis is spot on. Such a selfish, ungodly time. I was introduced to the Lord in Escondido, California in 1974. No longer a ‘hippie,’ but not mainstream either. And you’re right, I grew up! By the way, the conservative church I attended accepted me 100%.
I believe that 'movement' did more harm than good. The theme of the 'Jesus Movement' was: "When they don't want the Jesus they find, give them the Jesus they want".
The American Church you walk into on Sunday morning is the result of that movement.
A-MEN I agree, please watch this video. Lonnie Frisbee was a false teacher basically because of the sinful fruit of his life. Didn't mean he wasn't saved, but he was thoroughly disqualified to be a pastor, which he operated as, and it looks bad on Chuck Smith not having discernment. But its been used as a "see sin is ok!" example.
ua-cam.com/video/SV3791o-d48/v-deo.html
Also Jonathan Roumie prayed TO Dead Lonnie Frisbee at his grave to get his "blessing" on the project. The movie is not a work of Christ. It's more likely an angel of light to confuse Christians even more.
ua-cam.com/video/tag8vrZFkhs/v-deo.html
This.
Amen
At minimum there is some truth in that
Where are they now?
That tells the truth of the movement.
Your closing points were great. I have felt like a complete rebel/outcast in most churches in the last 15 years from my early 20s to my mid 30s as someone who wasn't raised in the church; is KJV Only, prefers Hymns and/or Psalmodys, is patriarchal, more traditional. And every time I approach the church with that, i am met with well...that is unusual....we sing these Bethel/Hillsong songs, read NIV/NLT, and use the fog machines for you. I’m like I didn’t become a Christian and go to church to listen to christianese rock music. I went for the real deal.
If you're KJV only you might be interested in the James White debate on the KJV and why the LSB is closer to the original Hebrew and Greek. Very interesting stuff. It's on UA-cam.
@@lauramckinney9896 was the debate posted? I only saw the remarks
@@mamainchristjesusofthechri9886 Here you go. ua-cam.com/video/zQIgcbkgIZo/v-deo.html
If you’re for “the real deal” you wouldn’t be KJV only. 😂
@@ewxlt I am not the real deal. I want a church who is traditional the real deal. I don’t need the Bible of the month club version.
You’re much kinder than me Jon 😂
I was not a big fan of the movie although it’s most certainly the best produced Christian movie to date.
I think people do think it’s a great evangelism tool and it’s devoid of the gospel so that’s a huge issue. Saying the sinner’s prayer a second before you’re baptized isn’t how you’re saved.
It promotes emotionalism, easy believing, an all-love Jesus with no repentance.
I think it’s yet another sign of a dying Christian culture gasping for relevance in a secularized society.
No we don’t need another “Jesus Revolution”. We need qualified pastors preaching God’s word without fear and true born-again believers living all of their lives to the glory of God, proclaiming Christ and him crucified without nuance and apologies.
It's not an evangelism tool. It's a good movie about an event that God used to save people.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast right, it's not an evangelism tool. I've heard pastors encourage others to use it that way.
Was the thief at the cross not a true believer? What additional hoops does one need to jump through before they are a true Christian? This reformed belief that somehow repentance and faith is not enough is very arrogant and frankly putrid in my mind. I doubt I will ever subscribe to Calvinist doctrines, but I am still a believer and have been for 20+ years. It all started with a simple prayer of repentance and faith. I'm glad I didn't end up in a reformed church, sounds like they would have tried to convince me I wasn't really a Christian
@@davissalaki8703 Perhaps it would be better to learn more about 'Calvinism' before providing an uninformed opinion
@@davissalaki8703 Reformed theology teaches sola fide (faith alone). Anyone who says they're Reformed and doesn't teach that is not Reformed.
Prayers for a successful IUI procedure. We have experienced similar difficulties but by the grace of God it was successful.
Thanks Jon, excellent commentary, and spot on as always. I just saw this movie this weekend. I don't like the casual nature toward worship that was introduced by the Jesus revolution. I think that it is not properly reverential toward God. However, this weekend my "traditional" Presbyterian church gave a message that was insultingly simple. And I saw the broadcast from last week of a friend's more casual church yesterday. I didn't like the contemporary, inappropriately casual dress, music, worship, and delivery of the message. But the teaching was outstanding. This contrast of the two churches is something that I won't soon forget, and is a lesson for me.
Didn't land where you did on this one Jon. (Agree with what MacArthur said at Shepherd's Conference.)
But I appreciate your effort and work on it. ❤
I remember at the time Pastor John had a totally different take on the movement or rather the Calvary Chapel contingent. I will have to dig up the video. Edit: The film was called "A Venture In Faith" from 1992.
@@banemaler wow, yes I found this... ua-cam.com/video/8YH7TZkn45M/v-deo.html
I don't fault him for evolving on the issue as I think he probably matured and saw what the movement did to the Church in a negative way. But thank you for pointing out. Very interesting.
@@lauramckinney9896 Hi Laura, what did John say about this movie?
@@692MOM I am having trouble finding a clip of his remarks. It may have been at the same time he addressed the asbury revival. But he basically echoed what he said in the clip I posted above about the movement itself. He no longer thinks it was a positive thing.
I’m going to see the film today. So I can’t comment about it yet.
I was saved in 1971 when the “Jesus Movement “ swept into our church. (Long Island). I knew nothing about its beginnings. I guess the thing I feel you cannot take out is the fact that it was supernatural. Many of my friends gave their lives to Christ at just the mention of his name. It really was a supernatural outpouring of the Holy Spirit. (At least my experiences were). Many of us are still living for the Lord today.
I don’t think it was because of how people dressed or anything like that. For me-it was a pure act of God. 😊
I agree with you. I lived in Southern California at the time, 1974 for me, but didn't live as a hippie, although i previously had; and i assume (as i haven't seen the movie) that i didn't experience what the film depicts. It was God, and God alone!
I am one of the few who have NOT seen the movie, yet. However I was a Calvary Chapel pastor for 10 years, 79-89. And I did visit Calvary before the tent and saw both Chuck and Lonnie in action. You never were specific about Chuck and his theology and/or preaching. He never changed his preaching before or after Calvary. He was a verse by verse through the Bible teacher. One other modification in the early days was he sat on a stool and preached. He would sit, preach for over an hour. He was pretrib and big on end time teaching from Revelation and the OT.
You must have some stories. I'm not sure what you expected me to be specific on? I agree with you that Smith was verse by verse and had orthodox theology (I quibble with some secondary matters).
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast I am also a Calvary Chapel pastor and i think you were very gracious towards the movement...thank you. P.S. I have been a follower and watching your videos for about three years Jon and have been blessed as you have given updates on what's happening in evangelicalism.
"They grew up". Exactly. This is why adults don't let children make life altering decisions. It's why Church leaders should not have allowed children to make Church altering decisions.
The fact that 'the movement' is still around is not an indicator of its validity in terms of doctrine or the Christian faith.
"A little leaven leavens the whole lump."
Thanks for sharing about the fertility issues. My wife and I are on year 5 of trying for children. It has been very trying as everyone around us is having children and getting pregnant. We tried iui for a couple months but then we quit. I'll pray for you brother.
I’ll be praying for you and your wife, Jon. May God give you both wisdom, peace, and joy! ❤
Praying for you as well. 🙏🏻 My daughter and her husband are also having infertility issues. They are starting the process this month for IVF. They did IUI three times.
My youngest was married for 10 years, had adopted 3 older children, and were then blessed with a sweet baby girl of their own. Now, 2 years later, she is expecting again. God is good. (If you look up infertility, under functional medicine, they fit all the issues of struggling to conceive. But they made some healthy changes and also job changes, and I believe that really helped; of course, God blessing them also) I am praying for you, may God open your wife's womb.
@@suzannefoust3156 what do they plan to do with the other fertilized eggs once they've chosen one to be implanted? Will they be washed down the drain?
Please look up Dr Jason Fung.
I attended Calvary Chapel for a few years. This particular one went towards the Hebrew Roots movement, so they weren't representative. I learned a lot listening to Skip Heitzig during those times. I just don't agree with their dispensationalism and dislike of the doctrines of grace. Chuck Smith also said some positive things about Charles Finney....not a big fan of Finney.
I have some friends who are Calvary Chapel and I respect them.
Trad Christians are tired of walking into a 'worship' service and thinking: "There is no fear of God before their eyes".
Thanks Jon for this very fair assessment of the beginnings of the Calvary Chapel movement from someone who was a small child at Calvary Costa Mesa before, during and after Lonnie. I think the Genius referenced in your talk was the Holy Spirit Himself leading and orchestrating. By the way, contrary to what may have been communicated in the movie, Chuck was being well used as an instrumental teacher and pastor before Lonnie and I don't believe the congregation ever stopped singing hymns. Blessings to you and your wife.
With respect to seeking around 11:00. This comes up a lot in reformed circles. Romans 3 says no man seeks God, Matthew 7 says seek and ye shall find. It is theologically correct to say that the sinful heart seeks sin, but because God does redeem sinners, the category of seekers does exist. A seeker doesn’t seek God because “they’re good on the inside.” A seeker seeks God because God’s invisible qualities have been clearly seen from what has been made. This is something I think adult converts get that cradle Christians may struggle with. Looking back on your life, you can see God at work bringing you to faith while you were in your sins. The takeaway shouldn’t be that “everyone is basically good.” But people looking into Jesus who have sub-Christian ideas or are biblically illiterate is something we have to expect in witness encounters (think Jordan Peterson fans).
Good Fight Ministries has two good videos on this topic. First video is called Jesus Revolution movie review which is over all review and the second is focused on Lonnie Frisbee. The fact the Lonnie calls himself a mystic and Jonathan Roumie says he is a Catholic mystic and laid on Lonnie’s grave to connect with him is quite problematic. And Greg Laurie is so appreciative of Jonathan, thinks he’s great is also problematic.
I saw their videos...very eye opening! Lonnie knocking people down like Benny Hinn is not a good thing. Those audio and video clips revealed so much.
The Jesus Revolution touched diwn on Gordon College campus from 1977-1988 with Christian Rock Groups: Randy Stonehill, Petra, Rick Cua and later GlAD, Micheal W.Smith , 2nd Chaper of Acts. This cultural Revolutiin continues with Baptisms in 2022, amd 2023 at my relatives Church at Falmoth Baptost Church woth Baptisms in Martha's Vinyard Sound. So thankful for this movement of the Holy Spirit which continues the work of George Whitfield from about 300 years ago
Praise God for Valvary Chapel!
thank you for this video. chuck didn't let sin into the camp. hence, lonnie left. many do now.
Praying for you Jon! l believe God will bless you with children. Oh yes! :)
Thank you Jon! Great take on looking at the good, bad & ugly! I do miss the hymns!
Then find a rebel church! 😊 Or talk to your worship team about incorporating some.
Lonnie, on his deathbed, said he realized how "destructive" his sex life was. But that's not necessarily repentance. And even if he repented of it, he did not repent of his divination and drug use. His "conversion" took place under the influence of LSD, so he did not "begin well." His "ministry" was under the influence of false spirits, not the Holy Spirit. He died without having renounced his self-anointed prophetic voice of the Church, replete with "slaying people in the spirit" with his leather mantles. I could go on and on, but Lonnie was not a Christian. To compare his ministry to God "using Pharaoh" is not a good comparison. Pharaoh was not in ministry preaching Yahweh. Rather, we should go to Acts 16 and see how Paul handles someone with a false spirit who is pointing people to God and the ministry of Paul and Silas. God does not give a ministry to an unbeliever.
I admittedly don't know a lot about what he did, but I would be very careful accusing someone else of divination without strong grounds. Christians who don't believe in cessationism are still Christians.
@@davissalaki8703 I agree that Charismaticism does not necessarily preclude salvation. However, I would invite you to do more research. Lonnie often referred to himself as a "Catholic mystic," and the LSD was used to "gain access" to "God." As you know, pharmakeia can be translated as drug use or sorcery; the two are commonly linked. That's because the drugs were/are used as a gateway to false spirits.
There's no parallel between Lonnie and Pharoah other than the fact that they both were not redeemed and God used them. That's it. You're example from Acts is a better parallel perhaps. In Smith's defense, Lonnie happened to enter the scene at at time when he appeared to be repentant and to Smith's credit they parted ways when he started faith healing. God used Lonnie (according to the film) to attract people to the church. While there they got to hear Smith preach from Scripture and many were converted. God uses even the sin of others to accomplish His purposes. That doesn't make what Lonnie did legitimate ministry by any stretch though.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Jon, you said Lonnie "began well," which led me to believe that you thought he was a believer. How can an unbeliever "begin well" by being converted on an LSD trip? So, I assumed your comparison to Pharaoh was that God can use "flawed" believers the way He used Pharaoh. Can you see why I am confused by your words? lol.
@@carolberubee I don't remember saying that? I know I said he contributed to helping the Calvary Chapel movement. Either way I'm not disagreeing with your assessment.
Greg Laurie recently stated that he believes Lonnie repented as he was dying of AIDS and believes he was saved. That to me is the most credible take I have heard from a first person testimony. It is also where that quote that he was looking forward to another Jesus Revolution came from. Greg said that he and Chuck heard him say this but didn't believe he would ever leave his hospital bed having lost significant weight. Most of the people questioning Lonnie didn't know him in his last days. Just a clarification.
Fair point.
Hearsay
I wouldn’t take Greg Laurie’s word for that.
@@lauriesteed4616 right???
There was another man by the name of Brant Baker who had a popular ministry called Shekinah Fellowship that operated in southern California during the early to mid 1970s. Brant was very charismatic and was known for holding healing and miracle services. Brant professed to be a Christian after coming out of a homosexual lifestyle. It's been many, many years since I've thought about him so there are details about him that have faded, but he was fascinated with Kathryn Kuhlman and used to study her carefully in order to adopt her healing and miracle services style. If I recall, Lonnie Frisbee was also heavily influenced by Kuhlman (and I've heard that Benny Hinn used to attend her meetings as well to learn from her). But in the Revolution movie, (if I recall correctly?) Lonnie alluded to Kuhlman's influence on him. Lonnie and Brant were nearly identical in their ambitions to have a prominent healing and miracle ministry like Kuhlman's, and they both succumbed to pride. Brant went back into the homosexual community and he would party with them at night, then hold his healing and miracle services the next night. He eventually relocated to Florida and I'm guessing that he and Lonnie were at least in the same orbit. Brant also died of aids, like Lonnie, in Florida, although I've heard he repented before he died.
I wish the movie would have highlighted Chuck Smith’s teaching. His teaching style was very low-key and he was more of a verse by verse chapter by chapter teacher.
Why don’t we say, @ look what God has done? What He is doing?” Instead we look at man & criticize or give him glory 😒I listen to Calvary Chapel Jack Hibbs because he stays and fights with God’s Word for the people around him.
Dude, I have a testimony about IUI. Me and the wife couldn’t get pregnant for 2 years. We tried IUI for one month and it failed. They recommended doing it 3 times in a row but I said no thanks. I did this because I really believed God wanted us to not lose hope. The following month, we got pregnant NATURALLY! Not to knock anyone who does IUI, but I just think it’s crazy how our story turned out.
What’s IUI?
@@elainelight9286 From Mayo Clinic: intrauterine insemination (IUI) - a type of artificial insemination - is a procedure for treating infertility. Sperm that have been washed and concentrated are placed directly in your uterus around the time your ovary releases one or more eggs to be fertilized.
@@elainelight9286 sperm placed directly into the uterus.
I agree with where you land on this, Jon. I was surprised by the film; it was better than I expected it would be but I probably won’t hype to the degree some will, and that’s okay. It was a docudrama about Calvary Chapel and a small circle of its leaders. If it starts some discussions that’s great, but I wouldn’t think of it as an evangelistic tool in most cases.
I came to the Lord a few years after the period depicted in the film, and I lived in another part of the country. I felt a hint of nostalgia for that time and the beginning of my walk with Jesus.
Thanks for sharing your analysis. Quite refreshing
You need to listen to Alisa Childress , fabulous apologist daughter of Chuck Girard tje hippie in the group Love Song- a real fruit of the movement!
Thinking through why we have pulpits, hymns... before discarding them -- you are describing Chesterton's fence.
It’s the Woke Church that now needs Jesus.
TY for the review.
What if more are damned by the movie than are saved?
It’s entirely possible.
I haven’t seen the movie, is there something about it that would lead you to suggest this is possible?
This is my concern. Like the Billy Graham crusades, there may be some genuine conversions, but we have to look at the bigger picture. BG did MUCH harm to evangelicalism and much of the time he did not adhere to biblical doctrine.
God saving people during a movement does not legitimize the movement. It just reminds us that God calls people in all circumstances.
I think there's a bigger issue here. The image of Christ was changed for many because of this movement of the 'Jesus people.' Christian music was also changed. And not for the better.
Guess I'll have to watch this Jon...Thanks for your work on this.
this is a good observation. Thanks for sharing it.
This movement has bad fruit. America became less godly, rock and roll replaced the God honoring hymns, Lonnie was gay, Chuck set a false date for the rapture and Greg Laurie teaches cheap grace and that Alice Cooper is a committed Christian. None of this would have flown in the 1950's but today people love it so this has led to Andy Stanley playing Led Zeppelin to open up his "worship service".
Thank you for your response sir. I agree completely. God bless you.
Exactly! I have a dear friend who attended Laurie’s church for years. She left last year. He’s a false teacher, and the Alice Cooper thing is mind boggling.
Since when did Chuck Smith ever set a date for the rapture? I've sat under five different Calvary chapel pastors and they always teach clearly that no one can know the day or the hour of Christ return. Also, as John stated in some answers to questions here Chuck Smith clearly taught book by book verse by verse through the entire Bible. That's one of the best things I took away from my Calvary Chapel experience and that's how I study and have taught others to do. Go to the Bible first and then decide on what people are saying.
@@afterdarkness-light Mike Winger who knew Chuck personally did a video on it, he did it in a book that is out of print, tried to cover it up.
The question must be, what does God want? What does He command? Here is where the regulative principle is helpful. We are on solid ground only when we look for guidance in holy scripture and do not allow what he does not command. God is the only seeker we ought to be trying to please. The reformers had it right, as expressed in the Westminster Confession, based on this and many other scriptures. May the fear of God be revived, not the Jesus revolution.
“But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:23-4
5:55 from a consistent Calvinistic perspective not only CAN a person be used by God but EVERY person is ALWAYS used by God as literally everything that ever happens has been perfectly decreed to happen in accordance with His perfect will. So then the question is, “how has God decreed that this person and this movie is to be used for His divine purposes? Did God use Frisbee to share the gospel with His elect or did God use frisbee to share a false gospel with the reprobate?”
☕️ peace.
Brother, I live outside of Albany and you're about 90 minutes from me. Would love to grab some coffee sometime, perhaps when I'm in the Mid Hudson for work. Let me know how to connect with you.
Best way is to become a Patreon. 😊
Well done. Also, Lonnie unequivocally repented of his sin before he died.
Based on what? Can you prove that?
On his deathbed following years of deception...
Yes, God works through sinful men, but in no Universe should this man have been speaking from a pulpit
@@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 Frisbee wrote in his book: "God is clear in the Bible that the wages of sin is death ... I am totally forgiven by my Lord, but I am also paying the consequences of my sin even right now."
Frisbee was also outspoken at the end of his life about homosexuality. He wrote: "Some not only embrace the lifestyle, but actively, willingly and creatively attempt to promote the gay agenda, therefore becoming dark evangelists. ... Every pedophile in the world is a dark evangelist. ... Right now Satan is attempting to sell homosexuality to the whole world, not just America. He wants to destroy Christianity, the family unit and really to destroy mankind."
Yet Frisbee ended his comments on a merciful note: "I'm saying all this without wanting to condemn anyone, but to speak the truth in love. I am saying: Turn to Jesus, because He is the only One who can deliver you."
-- www.charismanews.com/culture/91715-god-used-lonnie-frisbee-powerfully-despite-his-flaws
Salvation is irrevocable no matter what heinous sins a person does before or after the new birth. Works can neither save or unsave. My issue with Lonnie is was he ever saved to begin with. His testimony was being saved while tripping on acid, he professed to being a mystic and hypnotist before AND after conversion (on video), and he "preached" under the influence of drugs. Personally, I found his sermon I watched last week to be uninspired and rambling. Only God knows his eternal destination.
1 Corinthians 3:14-15 KJV
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] *_If any man's work shall be burned,_* he shall suffer loss: *_but he himself shall be saved;_* yet so as by fire.
@@doctrinalwatchdogactive6454 There were multiple witnesses to that, DW, and you know it. You've been given their names. Scripture requires a matter to be settled on the testimony of two or three witnesses. If you have evidence to the contrary, present it. Until then, get out of the way between repentant sinners and the cross.
Chuck Smith didn't look like a hippie because he was old. He had to settle for being 'hippie adjacent'.
hahahaha
Well I guess I’m gonna have to watch the movie now, dangit.
My understanding is that Calvary Chapel deny that we who are saved have eternal life; they reject the Gospel Promise of eternal security, which also means they rely on something unreliable instead of solely relying on Lord Jesus. First John ch5 v0-15 specify that those who do not believe we have eternal life have made God a liar because they do not believe the testimony which God has given about His Son. How much of the Gospel Promise can Calvary Chapel deny, and yet they still believe that same promise?
Calvary Chapel believes in eternal security.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast Thanks for responding. When I read your response, I asked myself "How can that be true? Over the course of some weeks and months I debated a man on the topic of the Doctrine Of Eternal Security, and he had learned from Calvary Chapel that one is only secure if they themselves abide in Christ, but there is no guarantee that a believer will abide."
In God's Biblical Doctrine, a genuine believer is guaranteed to abide, and those who do not abide were never genuine believers; we must be sure to abide by genuine belief in the genuine Gospel. In Chuck's doctrine, a genuine believer can stop abiding and therefor forfeit their salvation which was "eternally secure" so long as they had continued to abide.
When I searched for "Calvary Chapel on eternal security", I found this:
QUOTE
In the article, Smith writes:
I tell people that, of course, I believe in eternal security. As long as I abide in Christ, I’m eternally secure. As long as I abide in Him, He’s going to keep me from falling and present me faultless before His glorious presence. I believe that and I experience God’s security.
END QUOTE
There is a link to the article (I probably cannot post a link here), but the page was blank, so I cannot double check the quote. The link does lead to a Calvary Chapel page, but whatever was once on the page is no longer up. However, the quote is exactly, precisely, the same doctrine that the man I was debating told me he had learned from Calvary Chapel, and it is a rejection of eternal security, and it is also self-reliance rather than reliance on Lord Jesus.
I think the correct lesson to take from all this, is thus: that if we draw the line at the Gospel and do so in accordance with Scripture, then we get a clear view of the spiritual landscape around us. Jon, I appreciate that you keep the Gospel as the top priority above everything else, even while you address the everything else (so to speak). I know this is an unpleasant matter, but it is a matter of keeping the Gospel at the top.
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my student." - Lord Jesus
My friend is sentimentally attached to Calvary Chapel. If he is asking for the Truth, he is going to receive Biblical correction. If he remains deceived, then such circumstance must come, but woe to me if it comes by way of me being too shy to accept the truth about Calvary Chapel. I'm glad we are drawing a line against Wokeness, but we also need to draw a line against the false gospel of self-reliance, and not only when it is comfortable to do so.
Also, noticing their false gospel, gives us clarity as to the spiritual character of it all, which is rather important in our context, and lets us draw the right lessons from the film.
I have concerns with the pragmatism and easy believe ism I see in harvest fellowship and Greg Laurie saying the sinners prayer, etc.
I may have been taking the lesson from it that I wanted to, but I came away thinking that the strongest theme was "God works through flawed people." Not a fan of some of the individual lines of dialogue but I've seen way worse "Christian" (the genre) movies for sure.
Could you review The George Forman story when it comes out also? It looks good.
Will you go to see Nefarious?
Love the cutting of eggs that made it into the video, lol
The house ministries as I recall were called Shiloh.
If your wife wants to get pregnant soon, tell her to eat only meat, butter and eggs for a month. The carnivore diet is proving to be the best at encouraging fertility. But that's not what I wanted to say. I just wanted to say that I lived through the Jesus movement and remember it a little fuzzily, but that's when my sister got The Message and we were both thrilled to actually read something we could understand since the old King James was our only other choice back then.
I haven't watched this movie so I can't speak to it. But I do know that so many Christians have no idea what a movie is even supposed to be. They seem to think if it doesn't have an altar call or salvation scene, it's not a Christian movie. Plus, some of these things have looked so cheesy. Watching trailers has been enough to put me off.
Is it attempting to reach lost through cultural sensitivity, all things to all people, ie like Spanish speaking or English?
14:12 And that’s what bothers me about that kind of church. They often have the same sort of superiority that they seek to destroy in the older folk. (#notall)
Say hey to Brion M. I think he's near Phenix City or Columbus.
Lonnie’s wife tells a different story
Well hell has indeed frozen over-a calvinist promoting a calvary chapel inspired movie. Wow.
Oh....stop.
@@692MOM 😗
The wisdom of the ages..... Do you mean the wisdom that gave us WW-1 or WW-2? Do you mean the wisdom that gave us Korea and Vietnam? Do you mean the fear of the nuclear bomb that was produced by political institutions, or the fear of the draft that ordered us to kill our neighbors. No Jon, you don't get it but, shit was spiritually bad for us young people in the 1960s. Our fathers who were drafted in mass all had PTSD; and were not emotionally available as they spent their nights reliving the horrors of the battlefield. We were looking for something to distract us from the Void in our hearts. We weren't Bolshevik revolutionaries; it's just that the establishment had lost its credibility. We were left to find our own way looking for a new pardine. so, we experimented with many pseudo-solutions until a number of us found Jesus and a good Father in God. You are too young to understand how abandoned my generation felt. We hippies were doing our emotionally teenage best to build a society, where the "Rational" regular society had failed us. Who are you to judge us until you have walked in our sandals. Jon, I find that your world view is about the dualistic dichotomy of left verses right. The "Charismatic" Jesus People who had tried this this ideological dualism found it to be unfulfilling.
The dead don’t seek God
nope
💀
Jon, slow down when reading. Read like a newscaster, or a trained actor reading a book, or a pastor you know of who reads the Bible well. At 27:53 you make it sound as if the "Although" belongs to the previous sentence, when it is actually the start of a new sentence. And then you omit the "non-" from "nondenominational denominations". I think the problem is that people try to get their vocal apparatus to say the words as fast as their eye is scanning them, and the vocal apparatus needs more time to plan its movements. Words get missed, or completely different words substituted. Intonation comes out wrong, creating ups and downs that suggest a different meaning from what the writer intended. The result is that we struggle to double-guess what you are saying: "Hmm, that sounds odd. Perhaps he meant X instead of Y. Or is that supposed to be a new sentence instead of the tail end of the previous one?" etc.
Could it be individuals sometimes are searcher for something transcendence,some individuals look for something to make them respectable,
some people are looking for legitimacy,some in
-dividuals are looking for affirmation,some are looking to create a idol.When you look into the
word of ADONAI you come to a pass that says you need to agree with ADONAI about our in-
herent state of affairs,or attempt to remake AD-
ONAI into your image.Houston we have a problem
🤔 😏 🙄
May I just say I do not believe Frizbee was sent by God. His word says, "But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. "
[1Co 5:11 NKJV]
A lot of this was done under another spirit, another Jesus. To see it this way brings clarity to me. Only eternity knows if he ever received Christ.
I think a Christian can act in a way contrary to their convictions. It must be possible, after all we see Paul writing to the Corinthians who were not living in accordance with what is right conduct. Nevertheless we should not keep company with anyone who practices those types of things. That’s not to say they aren’t a believer, but we should not keep company with them.
@@JonathanGrandt My point is if God sent him to lead revival it would contradict His word and warning; there's a reason why we are to stay away. Also, I hate God is depicted in many circles of failing to sanctify HIs children. If we are without discipline we are illegitimate -Hebrews 12:6-8.
@@mascot8969 Frisbee lived in the Christian spotlight from 1968 to 1993. If he actually was sent by God, I believe most folks would point to the early Jesus Movement period -- roughly 1968-1972 -- as the best evidence. We know he died of AIDS in 1993 and was diagnosed with AIDS in 1990. It's reasonable to suggest he contracted HIV in the 80s at the height of the epidemic. The earliest documented report I've seen of his gay activity while ministering was a liaison exposed while he was with Wimber at Vineyard. That would be in the first half of the '80s. That's a full 10+ years after he was the spark that put Calvary Chapel on the map.
So, do you have solid evidence of Frisbee being "sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner" prior to what we know from the '80s? If not, it appears you are backdating his known sinful behavior over a decade to prove God did not send him. That's neither logical nor fair.. Have there been no other men who were called, served faithfully and later fell away? How are fellow believers supposed to not keep company with a brother who is living faithfully today, but will, at some unknown time in the future, become "sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner"? It seems like we'd still need the gift of prophecy operative in the church to pull that off,
Are you kidding me?
I need to listen again, as I believe you are doing the best to be fair to both sides. But we didn't dress nicely, suits and dresses and think ourselves better, we dressed in saved clothes, to honor God. We didn't disdain visitors, but we wanted respect for our church service, again, to worship and honor God. Maybe we were stuffy about singing hymns and Psalms, but again, attempting to honor and worship God, follow His Word. If you disagree, go to the pastor, make an appointment. Go to a church meeting, bring possible problems in a right way. Frisbee was an unrepentant homosexual, how does that honor God? Yes, we all are still sinners, all in need of grace, dsily; but we are to be searching our hearts for error, sin, and go to the Lord. Repent, let the Lord change your heart, order your desires. Seek to honor God with your life. Hope this isn't a rant, but I am having a hard time finding a Bible based church in our new home. Frustrating to find so much wokeness, charismania, and error...not looking for perfect, just want to worship and fellowship.
I do not know what "saved clothes" are, but I do know we should not spread falsehoods like "Frisbee was an unrepentant homosexual." Let Lonnie speak:
"God is clear in the Bible that the wages of sin is death ... I am totally forgiven by my Lord, but I am also paying the consequences of my sin even right now."
Frisbee was also outspoken at the end of his life about homosexuality. He wrote: "Some not only embrace the lifestyle, but actively, willingly and creatively attempt to promote the gay agenda, therefore becoming dark evangelists. ... Every pedophile in the world is a dark evangelist. ... Right now Satan is attempting to sell homosexuality to the whole world, not just America. He wants to destroy Christianity, the family unit and really to destroy mankind."
Yet Frisbee ended his comments on a merciful note: "I'm saying all this without wanting to condemn anyone, but to speak the truth in love. I am saying: Turn to Jesus, because He is the only One who can deliver you."
www.charismanews.com/culture/91715-god-used-lonnie-frisbee-powerfully-despite-his-flaws
As someone who was saved in a Calvary Chapel in California in the next generation after the Jesus Movement (1984), I think you are a little off in your evaluation. I hear your Calvinist leaning coming out which most Calvary Chapels are not. You suggest that the church was allowing the hippies to determine how church should be and I see it as Pastor Chuck sensing a move of the Holy Spirit and submitted to His work. God's work is not as much about what happened in the late 60s early 70s, but the fruit born out this movement. Read the book by Pastor Chuck called Harvest. If you do, you will read about my pastor, Raul Ries.
My whole point is that Smith *didn't* let the hippies determine things when it came to essentials and helped transition them to being productive members of society. I have a lot of respect for Chuck Smith.
Not about the Gospel says it all.
Pentecostalism is heterodox at best.
If you want to ignore 1st Corinthians 14 that's your prerogative, but I would be careful accusing other Christians of heresy for following the text with a sincere heart.
@@davissalaki8703 1st Corinthians 14 records what happened then. It's part of the historical record. I believe every word of it. What I do not believe is that you have any of the apostolic gifts. The Bible has already been confirmed. It is sufficient by itself and needs no further confirmation. Believe it or perish.
Luke 16:27-31 (NKJV): Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”
@@davissalaki8703 I fear no man. I do fear God. Maybe your lying false teachers should remember the 9th commandment????!!!
Descriptive vs. Prescriptive
Under the difference
@@ThomasCranmer1959 Does a person need to agree with Calvinism in order to be saved?
if a person must agree with Calvinism in order to be saved then anyone who denies Calvinism is not saved. But if a person does not need to agree with Calvinism then God has decreed for MANY of His people to deny the gospel.
Jon Harris coffeehouses has its origin in Islamic
part of the world in the Fifteen Century.Pop up in
Europe in the Seventeen Century 🤫 🤔 😏