"They stopped innovating because their last new coaster model was in 2023" ..my guy, that was only a year ago. "They will fail because the market is oversaturated with their products." ..my guy, that means there's demand for their products. Parks like Dorney don't care if a bunch of coaster enthusiasts don't like dive coasters, they are a small regional park. Their target demographic is families in their region, not thoosies who travel there once a year, and GP loves dive coasters. If this video was titled "Why I don't like B&M anymore" that'd be one thing, but you say B&M is failing as a company; then list all the reasons they are succeeding as a company.
@@cyrbuzz6615 thoosies are gonna nitpick, its part of being involved in a hobby and having refined tastes. It's fine. But this video is like a master chef saying McDonald's is gonna go out of business because their food isn't the highest quality. Those specific standards don't really matter to the actual business side of things considering the economic niches parks and ride manufacturers fill. You can complain about the rattle all you want, but it doesn't matter how justified those complaints are; it's not gonna stop parks from buying B&Ms.
Im afraid your argument holds no water! B and M is as popular now as ever. Enthusiasts don’t account for most the riding public and quite frankly don’t care about their gripes.
There’s no denying the B&M rattle though lol With other companies becoming smoother and smoother riding experiences, B&M def has to kick it up a notch to stay relevant in the future imo This video is like 10 years early
The general public also do notice its decline in quality. Nemesis reborn as an example, the original was rough because it was old, but it had no rattle. nemesis reborn does. And the gp have noticed it, a few think its because alton cheapened out, others think its gonna derail. Its not a good look for b&m at all. Ofc they will probably be fine. The gp will eat anything up like a b&m. but parks might want better options.
Regarding the copy/paste layouts, I think that's on the parks more than the manufacturer. For example, I don't think there's a single copy/paste coaster at Cedar Point, but legacy Six Flags loved to copy/paste. The manufacturer is just going to deliver what the parks ask for.
Sorry, but this ain't it. You're correct in saying that B&M has to innovate to stay alive and competitive; all manufacturers have to do that. However, the way I look at it, B&M isn't the kind of company that innovates by changing the ride itself, rather they change the way how you, the rider, ride it. The few times they do change the ride itself is when they're designing layouts *around* what the trains are like and how the seating is arranged (wingover drops for their wing coasters, big hills and drops for their hypers and gigas, stuff like that). The more tech you add to a coaster, the less reliable it generally becomes. Nearly all B&M coasters follow the same broad formula - a chain lift, a mid course brake run somewhere, some inversions if you're in the mood, and that's about it. The way I see it, and perhaps the way B&M sees it, is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. A lot of Intamin's rides, for instance, are jam packed full of tech and aren't known for being particularly reliable. I used to work as a ride op at Six Flags Great Adventure, as a matter of fact, and Kingda Ka's unreliability was a running joke among the ride ops. Hell, the people who aren't coaster enthusiasts fucking ADORE the five B&Ms that the park does have over Kingda Ka partly due to the variety and, say, Medusa or Nitro being open more frequently on any given day. Because of this, B&M is going to go after the much larger general public market-wise, who do not care about minor gripes with rides. All companies are going to go after the bigger market - it's an unfortunate fact and the same thing happens across many different industries. Unlike other industries, however, it's not like brand new B&Ms are objectively bad or anything. It's a glass-half-full-half-empty sort of problem: the coasters are there for you to ride, just enjoy what you got. At the end of the day, all ride manufacturers, not just B&M, are not going to put hardcore enthusiasts first and it's up to us to find out what we do or don't like.
Also, B&M literally knocked "innovation" out of the park with the Surf Coaster in 2023. After DECADES of uncomfortable stand-ups that are novel to the GP, but detested by the thoosies they FINALLY made a stand-up that thoosies and GP alike enjoy. They succeeded in elevating a "meh" coaster model to something impressive, and doing so required one of the most technically complex restraint systems ever seen on a coaster. I'm sure its not the innovation most thoosies wanted, because most have written off stand-ups. It almost feels like they are purposely trying to ignore this model for that reason. I dare anyone to actually take a ride on Pipeline and tell me it's not innovative.
Lol, B&M has been offering a different product from the others. Vekoma, Mack, Intamin, and Zamperla are offering quite similar rides. B&M is giving a different product, so it’ll stay. (P.S. The shuffle is hardly anything. Only enthusiasts will complain. The ride has been reliable except for one moment of extended downtime. So yeah, it was a good addition after all)
I rode (x5) Iron Menace back in the first week of June and there were a couple of rides that were surprisingly rough (I mean rough). And that one spot at the end was the worst no matter where you sat. I couldn't tell if it was an S curve made incorrectly but for whatever reason that portion of track if off (It's like in Planet Coaster where the ride creator got lazy just to finish it). Also, our 2nd ride on Hydra (x2) was brutally rough in the very front row. The lap prior had some shaking (sat towards the back) but not bad and didn't ruin the ride experience. My thinking was let's move to the front and it would be fine (not the case). That 2nd lap made it so we didn't ride again, totally killed the ride for myself and my 2 boys. **Typically I love B&M's and the shaking doesn't bother me. I have had many shaky rides over the years on Valravn but nothing I would call rough and nothing that took away from the ride experience. Lastly, quick shout out to Carowinds as Vortex ran perfect on our visit at the end of June. This was my boys first standup, and they loved it. Seriously, I couldn't believe this ride ran this good.
Its getting insane. They've stopped innovating? They just debuted a new launched standup, a family inverted coaster and a launched family coaster. On top of that I'm pretty sure they've built more coasters over 200ft than any other company.
A launched family coaster is nothing new, they’ve already built stand up coasters and there’s already been family inverted coasters from Vekoma. They’ve now added it to their portfolio but I wouldn’t call it innovate
Most parks don't really care if coaster enthusiasts critize on a specific coaster in which they think if it's "rough" or "rattly". They normally target GP's and families who visit every year instead of the 1% of coaster enthusiats. The important lesson is to enjoy what the coaster is built the way it is and that's final. Also note that just because there's a "design flaw" or a "pothole", does not mean that it will impact the reputation of that specific manufactuer like B&M for example.
I don't really agree with the lack of innovation. As you said yourself, the surf coaster was a prototype of something that hadn't been done in the industry. They're also actively expanding on family rides. Sure, they have more competition for those rides compared to something like a giga-coaster, but they're still making installations. That being said, the rattle you mentioned is something more people have said which is indeed surprising for them. However, tons of rides have a rattle and are still extremely popular, so I don't see them going down just because of that
Surf Coaster is SO underrated and underappreciated by thoosies who haven't ridden it and have already decided they don't like stand-ups. The reality is B&M elevated an uncomfortable and gimmicky decades-old coaster model to something that is super comfortable, unique, and fun to ride. They did so using the most technically complex restraint system ever seen on a coaster. If THAT isn't innovation, then what is?
I just feel bad for Dorney. I hope they can fix that pot hole in the off season. Everything else in the video is a little off based. A lot of parks aren’t saturated with B&Ms. I just went to a major park that didn’t even have one. Wing coasters aren’t that common either as I can only name 4 in the states. Honestly RMC has it tougher because they have 4 models and three of them ride similar. The wild moose is an unknown.
The park isnt really able to do much when it comes to the so called potholes on B&M's in their park, mostly the new ones. Thing is, I'm from the UK, and Nemesis, now nemesis reborn a popular b&m invert that opened in 94 and was retracked last year and its opened this year, yes it has a vibration on the train but not really a pot hole, most of the time it probably comes down to the wheel assembly and how the springs on the wheels have been loaded/set.
Dorney is doing fine. When I was there the path outside Iron Menace was filled with families and groups recording their people riding the ride. The goal of the ride is to draw in and engage families, not make thoosies on the internet happy.
2 things First this argument for them having a downfall is flawed at many levels. Second your voice is so boring I fell asleep halfway through the video. An AI Narrator could have done a better job.
B&M opts for a quality over quantity approach. They have ques set up for their projects years in advance, and parks have to bid to get into the slots. They seem to be doing just fine for themselves.
B&M isn't having a downfall anytime soon and this video is stupid. One company that is having a downfall that needs to be studied though is RMC (at least I think. I've been out of the coaster scene for about a year but as far as I know they haven't had anything since Wildcat's Revenge)
That's actually a company in a curious position. There's only so many woodies to hybridize. I wonder if we'll see more ground-up RMCs like Aireforce One. But from what I heard a big part of their appeal was that hybrid-ing a woodie was significantly cheaper than ground-up coasters.
So I think you're sounding the alarm a bit early here although I can certainly understand why you are doing so. I also love B&M and certainly hope they continue their major success as a major coaster manufacturer for years to come.
Agree Diamondback is an amazing smooth ride, but Banshee is really rough and shaky. I can only ride it once because it hurts and I can’t wait until it’s over.
BM rides are boring...All the dives are the same...Floorless and inverts are rough as he'll when they get some age on them..They will have to innovate,their line up now is repetitive. They have made 1 coaster F325 that is elite,the rest are meh
"They stopped innovating because their last new coaster model was in 2023"
..my guy, that was only a year ago.
"They will fail because the market is oversaturated with their products."
..my guy, that means there's demand for their products.
Parks like Dorney don't care if a bunch of coaster enthusiasts don't like dive coasters, they are a small regional park. Their target demographic is families in their region, not thoosies who travel there once a year, and GP loves dive coasters.
If this video was titled "Why I don't like B&M anymore" that'd be one thing, but you say B&M is failing as a company; then list all the reasons they are succeeding as a company.
It’s the enthusiass community that constantly complains about these things. They can’t be pleased so they whine like little babies.
@@cyrbuzz6615 thoosies are gonna nitpick, its part of being involved in a hobby and having refined tastes. It's fine.
But this video is like a master chef saying McDonald's is gonna go out of business because their food isn't the highest quality. Those specific standards don't really matter to the actual business side of things considering the economic niches parks and ride manufacturers fill.
You can complain about the rattle all you want, but it doesn't matter how justified those complaints are; it's not gonna stop parks from buying B&Ms.
@@Justin-og9guI’m a thoosie and I love everything B&M except diamondback as that got me sick
@@cyrbuzz6615I know it makes me embarrassed to be an enthusiast it’s so annoying
Yeah, I was thinking that too.
You say that is parks keep buying B&Ms year after year with no signs of slowing down😂
Just because you don’t like B&M doesn’t mean they’re going out of business.
Im afraid your argument holds no water! B and M is as popular now as ever. Enthusiasts don’t account for most the riding public and quite frankly don’t care about their gripes.
And their last model was a YEAR ago. The argument holds no water like you said. And won't make a splash.
There’s no denying the B&M rattle though lol
With other companies becoming smoother and smoother riding experiences, B&M def has to kick it up a notch to stay relevant in the future imo
This video is like 10 years early
The general public also do notice its decline in quality. Nemesis reborn as an example, the original was rough because it was old, but it had no rattle. nemesis reborn does. And the gp have noticed it, a few think its because alton cheapened out, others think its gonna derail. Its not a good look for b&m at all. Ofc they will probably be fine. The gp will eat anything up like a b&m. but parks might want better options.
Enthusiasts will never realize just how irrelevant they are. They think the entire amusement industry revolves around them.
@@eccentricgamer4111 Yup
Comparing B&M to Arrow is a peanut brain thoosie take.
Regarding the copy/paste layouts, I think that's on the parks more than the manufacturer. For example, I don't think there's a single copy/paste coaster at Cedar Point, but legacy Six Flags loved to copy/paste. The manufacturer is just going to deliver what the parks ask for.
Sorry, but this ain't it.
You're correct in saying that B&M has to innovate to stay alive and competitive; all manufacturers have to do that. However, the way I look at it, B&M isn't the kind of company that innovates by changing the ride itself, rather they change the way how you, the rider, ride it. The few times they do change the ride itself is when they're designing layouts *around* what the trains are like and how the seating is arranged (wingover drops for their wing coasters, big hills and drops for their hypers and gigas, stuff like that).
The more tech you add to a coaster, the less reliable it generally becomes. Nearly all B&M coasters follow the same broad formula - a chain lift, a mid course brake run somewhere, some inversions if you're in the mood, and that's about it. The way I see it, and perhaps the way B&M sees it, is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. A lot of Intamin's rides, for instance, are jam packed full of tech and aren't known for being particularly reliable. I used to work as a ride op at Six Flags Great Adventure, as a matter of fact, and Kingda Ka's unreliability was a running joke among the ride ops. Hell, the people who aren't coaster enthusiasts fucking ADORE the five B&Ms that the park does have over Kingda Ka partly due to the variety and, say, Medusa or Nitro being open more frequently on any given day.
Because of this, B&M is going to go after the much larger general public market-wise, who do not care about minor gripes with rides. All companies are going to go after the bigger market - it's an unfortunate fact and the same thing happens across many different industries. Unlike other industries, however, it's not like brand new B&Ms are objectively bad or anything. It's a glass-half-full-half-empty sort of problem: the coasters are there for you to ride, just enjoy what you got. At the end of the day, all ride manufacturers, not just B&M, are not going to put hardcore enthusiasts first and it's up to us to find out what we do or don't like.
Also, B&M literally knocked "innovation" out of the park with the Surf Coaster in 2023.
After DECADES of uncomfortable stand-ups that are novel to the GP, but detested by the thoosies they FINALLY made a stand-up that thoosies and GP alike enjoy.
They succeeded in elevating a "meh" coaster model to something impressive, and doing so required one of the most technically complex restraint systems ever seen on a coaster.
I'm sure its not the innovation most thoosies wanted, because most have written off stand-ups. It almost feels like they are purposely trying to ignore this model for that reason. I dare anyone to actually take a ride on Pipeline and tell me it's not innovative.
Lol, B&M has been offering a different product from the others. Vekoma, Mack, Intamin, and Zamperla are offering quite similar rides. B&M is giving a different product, so it’ll stay.
(P.S. The shuffle is hardly anything. Only enthusiasts will complain. The ride has been reliable except for one moment of extended downtime. So yeah, it was a good addition after all)
This take is colder than mr freeze at 10pm
I rode (x5) Iron Menace back in the first week of June and there were a couple of rides that were surprisingly rough (I mean rough). And that one spot at the end was the worst no matter where you sat. I couldn't tell if it was an S curve made incorrectly but for whatever reason that portion of track if off (It's like in Planet Coaster where the ride creator got lazy just to finish it).
Also, our 2nd ride on Hydra (x2) was brutally rough in the very front row. The lap prior had some shaking (sat towards the back) but not bad and didn't ruin the ride experience. My thinking was let's move to the front and it would be fine (not the case). That 2nd lap made it so we didn't ride again, totally killed the ride for myself and my 2 boys.
**Typically I love B&M's and the shaking doesn't bother me. I have had many shaky rides over the years on Valravn but nothing I would call rough and nothing that took away from the ride experience.
Lastly, quick shout out to Carowinds as Vortex ran perfect on our visit at the end of June. This was my boys first standup, and they loved it. Seriously, I couldn't believe this ride ran this good.
That "rough spot" in the final curve is also visible on many onrides and that shows how bad it really is.
Its getting insane. They've stopped innovating? They just debuted a new launched standup, a family inverted coaster and a launched family coaster. On top of that I'm pretty sure they've built more coasters over 200ft than any other company.
A launched family coaster is nothing new, they’ve already built stand up coasters and there’s already been family inverted coasters from Vekoma. They’ve now added it to their portfolio but I wouldn’t call it innovate
B&M: *installs two coasters that vibrate a little bit*
Thoosies: They're going out of business!!!
I rode Dr Diabolical 10+ times last year and found it to be butter smooth. Superman was the roughest of the three B&Ms in that park by FAR.
Most parks don't really care if coaster enthusiasts critize on a specific coaster in which they think if it's "rough" or "rattly". They normally target GP's and families who visit every year instead of the 1% of coaster enthusiats. The important lesson is to enjoy what the coaster is built the way it is and that's final. Also note that just because there's a "design flaw" or a "pothole", does not mean that it will impact the reputation of that specific manufactuer like B&M for example.
Ah yes, a video loaded with conjecture, hearsay, and layperson analysis
I don't really agree with the lack of innovation. As you said yourself, the surf coaster was a prototype of something that hadn't been done in the industry. They're also actively expanding on family rides. Sure, they have more competition for those rides compared to something like a giga-coaster, but they're still making installations.
That being said, the rattle you mentioned is something more people have said which is indeed surprising for them. However, tons of rides have a rattle and are still extremely popular, so I don't see them going down just because of that
Surf Coaster is SO underrated and underappreciated by thoosies who haven't ridden it and have already decided they don't like stand-ups.
The reality is B&M elevated an uncomfortable and gimmicky decades-old coaster model to something that is super comfortable, unique, and fun to ride. They did so using the most technically complex restraint system ever seen on a coaster.
If THAT isn't innovation, then what is?
i love when people with zero credibility talk about how they think a business is gonna fail
I just feel bad for Dorney. I hope they can fix that pot hole in the off season.
Everything else in the video is a little off based. A lot of parks aren’t saturated with B&Ms. I just went to a major park that didn’t even have one.
Wing coasters aren’t that common either as I can only name 4 in the states.
Honestly RMC has it tougher because they have 4 models and three of them ride similar. The wild moose is an unknown.
The park isnt really able to do much when it comes to the so called potholes on B&M's in their park, mostly the new ones. Thing is, I'm from the UK, and Nemesis, now nemesis reborn a popular b&m invert that opened in 94 and was retracked last year and its opened this year, yes it has a vibration on the train but not really a pot hole, most of the time it probably comes down to the wheel assembly and how the springs on the wheels have been loaded/set.
Dorney is doing fine. When I was there the path outside Iron Menace was filled with families and groups recording their people riding the ride. The goal of the ride is to draw in and engage families, not make thoosies on the internet happy.
Having ridden mandrill mayhem 3 times last month, I can say it is glossy smooth and doesn’t have a rattle
listen, I'm thinking it's more on you not liking B&M personally then the actual company failing bro..
2 things
First this argument for them having a downfall is flawed at many levels.
Second your voice is so boring I fell asleep halfway through the video. An AI Narrator could have done a better job.
B&M opts for a quality over quantity approach. They have ques set up for their projects years in advance, and parks have to bid to get into the slots. They seem to be doing just fine for themselves.
3:49 dosen't seaworld have more B&M's?
Seaworld and soon to be Great America are tied with Great Adventure.
B&M makes amazing rides but they need to get it together
B&M isn't having a downfall anytime soon and this video is stupid. One company that is having a downfall that needs to be studied though is RMC (at least I think. I've been out of the coaster scene for about a year but as far as I know they haven't had anything since Wildcat's Revenge)
That's actually a company in a curious position.
There's only so many woodies to hybridize. I wonder if we'll see more ground-up RMCs like Aireforce One. But from what I heard a big part of their appeal was that hybrid-ing a woodie was significantly cheaper than ground-up coasters.
So I think you're sounding the alarm a bit early here although I can certainly understand why you are doing so. I also love B&M and certainly hope they continue their major success as a major coaster manufacturer for years to come.
B&Ms are boring
Clickbait title
🤣 ok 🙄
Diamondback is not shaky. Banshee on the other hand…
Agree
Diamondback is an amazing smooth ride, but Banshee is really rough and shaky. I can only ride it once because it hurts and I can’t wait until it’s over.
I like the layout on Banshee but it give me a headache.
Yeah I balked at that, I was there a few weeks ago marathoning it. Felt buttery smooth to me.
Orion is not a quality product it’s a boring ride
nah
@@archimetropolis definitely
It’s great
You are one out of the millions of people that ride it every year no one cares what you think.
@@JJJJ-he8bz I literally rode it once and never rode it again because it sucked so
BM rides are boring...All the dives are the same...Floorless and inverts are rough as he'll when they get some age on them..They will have to innovate,their line up now is repetitive. They have made 1 coaster F325 that is elite,the rest are meh
Maybe try stacking some bands fatty