Virpil CM3 Dead Stick
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
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Star Citizen aims to span multiple video game types by combining space trading, space combat and shooter elements, in a first person massively multiplayer online game. We cover the ongoing situation to keep you informed and up to day. As an early backer and tester, you need to be ready for its quirks but you can also witness the game evolve.
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Thanks for this video -- it's *eggstremely* relevant to what I've been working on over the last few days, so it's very timely.
I bought the CM3 base because I wanted a "no centering" feel, to more replicate the cyclic feel in real helicopters that I have experienced. After some playing around I have the light springs and the no-center Cosmo cams installed, with the preloads almost completely disengaged. It's unclear to my why you would need to take out the "cam holders" and cams beyond what I have done... That said, I have not done either yet, so maybe I'm missing something.
Today I was flying the MSFS H145 (I am kinda done with DCS for reasons I won't go into here), and I'm finding that a stick with no centering does not play well with the H145's AFCS system... So I had to release the clutches a bit and tighten the preloads to make it flyable (and self-centering, which is again annoying). Are your mods DCS-specific?
I can answer. I use a motion simulation platform. Even when fully relaxed, the parts jiggle around and make noise
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Wait, you moved the arms and all of that because of the motion simulator? I have a D-BOX motion simulator, so I'd like to know. Will the parts jiggle around by installing it the way VIRPIL intended it?
@@kimmossige263 my solution is extreme, but I had the gimbal, so I thought I would make it perfect for chopper
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Okay, so I have to do it the way you did it to acheive a dead stick collective for my motion rig?
The Virpil products are so well made its always a joy to open up and look at the quality machining .
So pretty
Virpil quality oozes from the video. Can't wait for my CM3. Dedicated cyclic for it here as well. No cams or a no-center cam should work for most of us but great to see the full disassembly if that helps some applications. 👍
Very helpful, thank you.
I'm setting up a left stick for use as a throttle for space sims and was looking to try and remove only the forward reverse spring and cam allowing it to still center side to side. This was just what I was looking for as far as showing what I was going to need to do.
Thanks for posting.
Can’t wait to see this in action. Please share some videos once it’s in action. I’ve got one arriving tomorrow. Still another couple weeks for the monstertech mounts though I think to make their way.
I enjoyed hanging out and watching you do this. Thanks!
I just got the warbrd "D" version and it was super easy to make it dead stick, I just pulled the springs off and left the Cams, put the top back on and Done. It took like 5 minutes total and my choppers fly real good now. :)
Excellent.Thank you for that informative video.
I will try and use my CM3 as stock but sure enough, I will configure it as dead stick.
Very cool! Thanks for making this video. I'm impressed with the build quality as well.
I basically did this with a vkb gunfighter and, 200mm extension, and cosmosima stick. I removed the clutch spring (basically putting it on the outside of the device, not inside). I didn't want to squeeze it for the lifetime of the heli conversion and nullify it for future use. and i removed the stock grease from the clutch and replaced with nyogel.
Stick stays in place even at extreme angles, minimal/negligible stiction, no springs, no center. Works like a dream.
Also, on another note winwing customer service sucks. They make you do a ton of work, their products are made of glue, and they won't replace malfunctioning products. To fix my device, I had to reassemble the device from scratch.
Would you happen to have a tutorial/instructions of any kind on how/where you applied the nyogel?
@@curtisjackson8118 I don't have a video but if I remember right, my method was to wipe the where the clutch and the "half-moon-shaped" clamps touch eachother with a qtip and a little alcohol to remove the existing grease. Basically clean out the outside of the circle and the inside of the clamps (where they rub up on eachother). and then apply the nyogel in the same place you clearned (basically a coating around the circular clutch and the inside of the half-moon clamps). then squeeze it back together around the clutch with your fingers wipe the excess and screw back together. Maybe another quick wipe after. I was a little nervous doing it the first time but it's very easy and you don't have to use much nyogel or rubbing alcohol.
+BrianMP5T *Thanks for the demo.* Were I optimizing a helisim for a Mil-24, -25, or -28; or a Kamov-50 or -52; I'd configure the VPC-109-001 Base with the VPC-602-200 Extension for minimum springs on Cosmosim soft-center cams (to mitigate the tendency for a tall cyclic to seek full deflection on gravity) and set the gimbal brakes for reasonable resistance; the VPC-007 Grip has a more realistic Stores trigger than the Virtual Engineering Bureau MCG Pro, as the VPC-007 includes a side spur on the Stores trigger consistent with the AvijaAvtomatika original. (Such a spur is on the dual trigger executed by OKB Kamova, although with different kinematics from OKBe Milja and Sukhogo.)
A fantastic level of flexibility, and quality with these devices. They seem to be well worth the price. It says a lot that you've disassembled it completely, before you've even tested that it works.
Not worried at all about that. I have never had a Virpil gimbal fail. I’ve owned 11 of them. BTW. It calibrated perfect and works fine.
Nice, one day will have that joystick setup I’ve been looking for.
The Winwing Orion2 stick has a "helo mode" too
I bought the Orion 2 base for exactly that use. I’m afraid to say it’s pretty awful. Once you’ve tensioned the dry clutch to the point where the stick stays in place, the resistance is too high to allow smooth helicopter flight.
@@DeanMurphyCDM Oh God!
dcs can utilize the force feedback motors in a sidewinder ffb2 to very closely model the magnetic trim in a helo
in case you want to check it out and do a nostalgia vid some day
Man I wish the CM2 had that pin header for the connections. I hate messing with these little identical 5 pins. I'm replacing the cam follower bearings with some nice chrome BB's. The factory had some pretty nasty crunch in them. Ooops wasn't the bearings - apparently my mirror polish on 2 of the cams wasn't shiny enough.
You mentioned that this is better suited to higher tension/friction use cases, whereas the WarBRD base is better for light stick setups. I'm considering replacing my HOSAS WarBRD/Alpha with Z-ext setup with an Alpha Prime/CM3/Z-ext for StarCitizen. I use the lightest springs I can to achieve reliable centering with Cosmo-Center cams... I'm interested in the CM3 so that I have the option to play with the drag clutch, but do you think I'd be better served by the WarBRD for my application?
I also would like to know your suggestion? If I were to purchase virpil in the use-case of Star Citizen, would it be more applicable to purchase a WARBRD over a CM3 even though you mention that the CM3 is what brings Virpil to modern day gimbal operation?
Gotta admit it: As a Gunfighter owner, I'm getting kinda "jealous" seeing some of the details on that CM3 gimbal. Like the extra insulation around that cable, running along the side of the gimbal. Or the fact that that cable is tucked away neatly and out of the way. GF's cable strands don't have an additional layer of insulation around them and one of the strands (which you need to take off every time you want to work on the gimbal) is more or less hanging around on the inside. Yes, there's a notch in the PCB it goes to, but even when I push it in there, most of the cable is still just sticking out and running freely through the gimbal housing.
Or the overall beefiness of the whole thing. Makes the GF's gimbal almost look like a midget. Plus it looks like it'd be a little easier to work on than the GF. Getting to its dry-clutches is a bit of an operation - both to adjust them and to re-grease them. The Y-axis' clutch on the GF sits behind a little daughter-board/PCB that you have to take off if you want to disassemble the clutch. And proper clutch adjustment is a rather lengthy operation if you have the gimbal mounted underneath the UCM baseplate. All that said: It's still a great product, but that CM3 looks like it's been engineered a little more carefully and like it's over-built. Add to that the fact that VKB have just raised the price on the GF MCG Pro from €417 + 10 shipping to €498 + shipping and I *think* I'd go with the CM3 if I was shopping for a stick now in Jan 2023.
Wow, that was a very detailed comparison. Thanks and yes I agree.
Noob, you should do an ASMR gear series. Maybe more whispering to go with the no-BS. :D
Next level for Virpil should be a FFB base. Even if you don’t use FFB, an electric motor in the base would give limitless tuning capabilities.
It’ll never be as rugged and reliable as a purely mechanical solution with cams and springs, but performance wise you wouldn’t want for anything more.
Hi! Thanks for the video, what is the grease for at the springs?
To keep the parts riding free of friction in the metal cylinder
Thanks, I did not know that springs are touching the housing.@@NOOBIFIER1337
@@efrenreyes-c3y when they compress they move
First big thanks for your videos very good stuffs. I just recieved my VPC Alpha Prime and CM3's so if i wanna use a deadstick for throttle on the left stick all i gotta do is remove the Y piston thing and reassemble and calibrate?
Yes, but retain these parts in a safe space if you need to reassemble.
@noobifier - At some point, you mentioned that CM3 brings Virpil into the modern era of gimbal but also state that if someone prefers a lighter feel... to go WARBRD? Would WARBRD be more applicable for Star Citizen or CM3 with lightest springs? I would not be using an extension for CM3/WARBRD but it would be for my LH 6dof.
In star citizen I actually prefer WarBRD gimbals
@@NOOBIFIER1337 TYVM for your replies and I hope "you keep on doing you!" If you had a Virpil code... I would be using it tonight!!!
@@fubardad8892 Sadly, they do not have any codes. Enjoy
With that setup do you think the 20cm extension virpil sells is enough ? Or we need a longer one for proper helicopter opération ? I am considering replacing my pro flight trainer puma by a virpil.
200mm is perfect. Just bring the gimbal up to adjust
@@NOOBIFIER1337 did you compare it to the pro flight trainer puma ? Or you never had the puma to compare to ?
@@harf4ng so, this is going to sound arrogant. I am sorry in advance. I would not buy or test a puma thing when I have other platforms, so I have no experience with it. I have a Monstertech MTS motion and a QuBIC QS S25 platform. Sadly I have no experience with the pro puma thing.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 why arrogant ? No, no problem just wanted to know if using a virpil device for helicopter cyclic worth the price when I have a puma :) though I think i will keep my puma for cyclic as it has an interesting feature, the fact it can be folded when not in use and I will replace instead later the puma collective for the virpil one. The cyclic is good enough to not replace it anytime soon. Though I just bought the z extension for star citizen.
@@harf4ng my issue is my first experience with Helicopter was when I reviewed the collective that Virpil launched and despite spend many MANY hours in flight with it, I have only Komodo to compare it to. I will say, Virpil has really refined their construction, materials and design when compared to some other low scale products.
Has anyone actually ordered and received this and/or the Alpha Prime’s yet? The GF3 and MCGU is in stock but Virpil seemingly never shows any in stock. How long does ‘back order’ actually take? Specifically to the UK. Thanks.
Of course. The back order is just their way of keeping track. It’s first come first serve. People who ordered on the day of release have their product already. You can see this because there are other reviews posted, not just mine
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Fair point, but having no clue as to how long the actual queue might be isn’t ideal. Yours is the only actual review from someone credible though. I’d really just like to know if likely delivery is days or weeks or worse. I’ll enquire with the others who have posted. Thanks for the reply.
@@doifeellucky no problem. The reality is there is no known date, waiting longer does however move you to the back of the list. People who bought on the first day have gotten them. Those who bought on the first week and now getting them.. I don’t know what the backlog is
Do you really have to remove all the arm ? Isnt removing the spring enough ?
I use a motion system. I removed the arms because they jiggle around.
Sry, but I can't find the following info: you mention that what you do in this video might not be needed and be overkill for most people. That the easier/faster change is explained in the "Real Pilot, fake helicopter" video; but its not. I've watched the whole 1h video.
Nowhere is it explained what to change to get a "normal" deadstick; and I could not find this info on any other video.
Could you please point me to the right one? How do I change a CM3 or the WarBRD-D to deadstick (without removing half the innards^^).
Thanks!
You could simply back off the tension preload to disengage the cam. As I fly on a motion system, the vibrations make the internals vibrate and make noise. My idea was to remove everything and store it for later if I changed my mind.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 So removing the springs and applying dampening (like for the Warbrd-D) would get me a quasi dead-stick, is that correct? (I still might have to overcome the CAM friction if I move too far out as far as I understood it)
@@ytdlder Not Quasi, Actual Deadstick
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Right, but not quite as "dead" as yours 😄
Thanks mate, appreciate it!!
Sooo, if it's unnecessary. This is just to show us a deep dive on the gimbal? I mean I was going to suggest just pull the cams but you commented that in your video.
Also, if you wanted it for dead stick purposes, couldn't you ask Virple to send it without the arms?
Why would I ask them to do extra work.
Also great video btw.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 I meant as a consumer. Not you personally. Idk, I'm a craftsman so it's no big deal to take down things. But I know a lot of people would have a real struggle doing this type of modification. A friend of mine has had a MT SimPit in the box for months because he can't get anyone to build it for him.
@@rodwanolds1871 I agree, I also feel the detail presented would allow any level to perform this switch
Did virpil made any comment on the Clutch Dampers coming to the warBRD base? My left alpha so desperately need it
They have not made comments.
Why wouldn't you just upgrade to the CM3?
@@rodwanolds1871 the WarBRD is unique in its design
@@NOOBIFIER1337 do you think we can still be hopefull ? Clutch is my only regret in my virpil setup
Great video, too bad you didn't show it actually in use, love flying helicopters and plan on getting a full virpil kit, all this info in good for me.
ua-cam.com/video/fCfdKaPIsOc/v-deo.html
@@NOOBIFIER1337 hah ! thanks, I'm running 27"s myself, no motion but buttkickers, if you make another video, could you please take a close up of the stick in action (just if you remember). Thanks again
@@DanMorera I can do that, but it would just be a video of a gimbal. Nothing really exiting there. I did this video as well . ua-cam.com/video/gyjw3noHqvs/v-deo.html
@@NOOBIFIER1337 oh yeah I saw that one, that's how I heard of you actually, that was an awesome video, have you had him back since?
@@DanMorera Yes, plus there is a new on on the 5th for Boeing Jets. Stay Tuned
Is achieving this same result possible with the CM2? Even if the method is slightly different?
Not really because the CM2 has no way to apply friction
@@NOOBIFIER1337 got it so I will have to try to get as close as I can experimenting with the cams and springs.
This is the channel where you go see your neighbor that likes to show you all the toys you couldn't possibly afford...it's a nice catalog of documentation but other than that, it's absurd!!
Perhaps
With all the devices you showcase here I'm shocked you haven't shown the Real Simulator pressure sensitive joysticks or brunner joysticks.
@@einarabelc5 videos like that require the support of the company. I can not afford to pay for a 1000, 2000 controller for review as the video makes about $24 total. There is no you in UA-cam and there is no money either. I do this mostly for fun and I hope you understand. If you really want these products, can you consider taking the time to tell them you want my review of their product?
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Brunner doesn't care to provide drivers to support their product to the hobby market. I do hope one of our high end manufacturers offers a FFB base soon.
Hey Noobifier! I'm have a few questions if you could help me. You seem to be the expert to ask. I've asked around and never gotten very good answers.. if you could help that would be amazing.
Do you think two Alpha Primes (L and R), the left stick on a Z-Extender, on the WarBRD would be okay for Star Citizen (mostly) or would your suggest the new T-50CM3? (Also do you recommend an extension on the right stick at all with the Z-extention?) I would like to learn to fly decoupled. Unless I'm mistaking you can use that new feature on the CM3 (dry clutch? ) To make a stick that is on a Z-Extender like a throttle on a normal plane right?
Sorry for so many questions im pretty new to this all I've ever had is a basic Saitek stick.
Do MonsterTech mounts scratch wood desk tops?
Sorry, I know you get this alot but I wanted to ask specifically about usage with the Z extension and if it would make a big difference. I've never heard anyone really talk about it. People only seem to mention big extensions when they say not to use them on the WarBRD.
1. Yes, I have tested Z mounts, I like them, on one of my setups I have decided to return to vertical because of a clearance issue. They are on my SimPit and they would be fine on desk, but my standup wall mount has less than standard space. The work fine on warbrd if you are using Medium or Hard Springs. You can fly decoupled with 6DOF only, there is no need to HOTAS. You can HOSAS (Stick and Stick). MT mounts has a thin silicon grippy on the inside, They should no mar a surface if things are clean.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 I feel like the CM3 would be wise for the Left hand because of the drag clutches.
@@darthscion I asked this same question recently of someone who has the Omni extension with the warbrd base and they said when releasing the throttle to hit a keyboard key, the joystick wobbles a bit and that translates to movement in the game.
Maybe heavier springs can fix this as Noob says, but I don’t think it comes with different springs so you may need to order it separately.
And the CM2 is more than adequate, no need for a CM3.
I consider the NXT EVO to be mid range. I also consider the X52, X56 to be in that category.
Sorry, but I have experience with all of them. Feature wise perhaps. Quality wise VKB is LEAPS and bounds above anything logitech destroyed when they acquired Saitek. I don't know about civil plane SIM, but when it comes to combat I consider everything you mentioned garbage, either new or used.
@@einarabelc5 lol I review sticks man. I never said they were on par, in fact, VKB absolutely dominates them. I just said they were in the same segment.
@@FalconsLedge saitek hotas throttles are garbage
@@pcgamernw5702 I never said they were good, in fact I completely agree that All the logitech sticks are garbage. I simply said they were in the same category "mid range sticks", I didn't say they were equal, because they are not, the GNX absolutely dominates them.
Lol, after the VKB video, Noob is like. "OK I showed you that... Now here's what a real man's gimbal looks" =)
It’s not specifically like that.. I am publishing Gunfighter III on Monday.. but I’m happy to know it make you happy
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Looking forward to it.
@@NOOBIFIER1337 Any update on when the GF3 review is due? Thanks.
Considering the quite frankly terrible stiction these clutches add that messes with fine control because dry clutches always do this just like the Virpil collective one does, something very important in helicopters, and the fact you were willing to go this far for using a base only for helicopter use, you should probably look into a damping lubricant of some kind, Nyogel for example.
This is unnecessary. Just open the bottom part, unscrew the long bolts leaving it on last 2-3 threads and it will be dead stick
As I said, I use motion systems, so doing as you suggest, left little bits inside to bounce around.
Can you tell me if that’s what you have to do to make it like a helicopter stick. I must remove all that?
I really don't see the point of disassembling the cam holder/spring system when you freely acknowledge that removing the cams alone will do the job.
You need to reconsider the viewing angles you're using when disassembling as all I can see a lot of the time is the back of your arms.
Finally, and most importantly, where's the in-game demonstration of the results? I don't think it's sufficient to just poke it with your finger, you need to show us the system in action.
There is an entire video called real pilot fake helicopter that shows it being used