One thing I would add is to warm up the locomotives for about 5 minutes (forward and reverse) before setting speed values. I have noticed a good bit of speed variance from a cold to fully warmed up locomotive (especially Atlas units) when doing speed matching. Other than that all the things you covered are tried and true methods for speed matching.
I realize that this video is not a new one, but I found it to be very informative. So much so that I took notes that I'm going to print out and take out to the train building and of course along with the computer to speed match with. Thanks for making this video.
Helpful video!!! This shows me that there's hope for my locos, which I previously tried to get somewhat matched. I think now I DO want to get a USB connection and be able to use the Computer as the interface for programming. I had previously decided that I didn't want to use a computer for the layout, but now I'm reconsidering that, or at least considering a computer in the hobby room to use for a programming track and test spot on the workbench...
This sure is good to know. I don't have this at all but it sure is great info for all of this to know! Wow the World of Trans have changed but this is a good thing :). Thanks for the video and take care!!!!
I would suggest you also talk about reverse trim. Some engines have quite a difference in running speed when the direction is changed. If you use the top and bottom speed for all your locos, they should all run the same. Key work being should. Do you turn the BEMF back on once you have matched them?
I still run analog DC on my layout. Since I stick with one manufacturer (Athearn) speed matching has been relatively easy. Some of the later blue-box units have better motors so they tend to run faster. I can slow those down some by putting a resistor in series with the motor. 2 watt, 2-5 ohms. Have to experiment a bit. They don't have to be perfect, just close enough so they don't bind up or wheel slip when in a MU config. I made my own 5 amp controller so running a consist of 8 locomotives is possible with no mechanical "talk-back" from the units. Quite smooth actually.
Nice video. I model in HO scale with all sound locos, but I use a similar method to speed match my locos. I use a NCE PowerCab system with the NCE interface. I have no problems with my ESU decoders on JMRI using this set up. For my speed matching I have an oval of track right by my PC so I can adjust the settings as the loco is running. For speed matching I use 28 step mode, but when actually running on the layout I use 128 step mode. I first set the minimum speed to around 1.5 mph (scale), then top speed (usually 66 mpg), and then step 14 (mid point) to 33 mph. On most ESU decoders I can acchieve this with CVs 2, 5 and 6, but with SoundTraxx decoders I usually have to use the 28 step speed table (JMRI makes that so easy). Sometimes I also find that I have to adjust the forward and/or reverse trim with CVs 66 and 95. Something interesting I discovered when I first started speed matching was that I would start running at step 28 and check the speed. Then I would decrease the speed on step at a time (27, the 26, 25, etc) until I reached the desired top speed. As I did this I noticed that the top speed actually increased for a while before going down to the desired speed. Since the decoder doesn't send a continuous voltage to the motor, but instead a series of pulses, there is a point where the motor can't handle any more pulses and begins to choke, reducing the maximum speed. This is important to note because when setting the maximum speed you want to make sure that the decoder is set below the "choke" point.
Regarding ESU decoders and Decoder Pro, I didn't go into detail, but yes, Decoder Pro works fine for CVs below 255. It is the advanced CVs, above 255, which control advanced sound and lighting features where Decoder Pro has issues with ESU decoders and vice versa.
Getting a speedometer was always on my list. Let me tell you finding the Accutrack Speedometer was quite the challenge. I finally did find one but pretty much everyone is out of stock right now.
I might, but the process is virtually identical. In fact, you can speed match ESU decoders with Decoder Pro. It is the CVs above 255, used for sound and lighting features, that causes problems. That said, speed matching with the LokProgrammer is virtually identical to JMRI.
Let me start by saying, I have never tried this so it could be a stupid question but if you have the speedometer, why not program every loco to it’s actual scale speed? Make the first step stopped, the second step the start speed, and then increase each step by 5 mph until you reach all 28 steps. Top speed would come out to 130 mph or you could limit it like you said to 90 mph which would be reached at speed step 20 and make 21-28 the same 90 mph. If you did that then all of your locos would be speed matched to their actual scale speed and you would know that each speed step raised the speed 5 mph. Just a thought, let me know if you think it would work. Thanks for the tutorial Ron.
Who knew that a EMD SD-70 MAC could double as a high speed bullet train!! That little guy had some zip! I might have missed it but do you top out the speed of your loco's similar to the prototypes?
I mentioned in the video, I set a top speed of about 90 scale MPH. That is faster than I want to run them, but the extra umpff helps when pulling loads up grades, like in a helix.
This is the one aspect of the hobby that absolutely scares me to this day. Next to certain complex wiring, speed matching is on my list of undesired tasks.
Even though I don't personally use JMRI, these are still great tips for speed matching locomotives. I am curious about advanced consisting locomotives, I tried advanced consisting some HO locomotives on the club layout back in October, not only did I mess up with one of the locomotives (it was still set to its factory default address of 3), it jacked up all the other locomotives with that same address plus I couldn't clear the consist, any thoughts or maybe a future video on the subject? Thanks!
good show. i have several lok sound locos. how do you hook the esu lok programmer to the pr3? i think that i have a pr 4 i have a lot of trouble getting a loco on the roster. and how do you know what decoder is the one in it? i get the manufacture number but there are several choices to choose from. how do i know which one to pick? i watched your video on jmri last night. thank you.
I add my mainline track to my test track with a double throw- double pole switch. So I switch back and forth from test track to mainline without having to go back and forth to my layout.
What is the advantage of speed matching? I notice the 2 scale trains BNSF’s I have are almost bang on, same with the 2 Broadway Limited I have. My others (Kato, Atlas, Rapido) all run well with each other. Don’t get me wrong it’s not perfect and sometimes I hear a loco going faster then the other and slipping and I notice that some take off faster and then almost match the speed by themselves.
Is it better to adjust the faster loco to match the slower or the slower loco to match the faster? Is there a preferred line up of locos (assuming that one will always be slightly faster than the other)- ie put the faster one in the front, or put the slower one in the front?
For the first, it depends on whether you're adjusting the top speed or slow speed. If you have an engine that will only run so fast, you need to drop any faster loco to match it. Same thing on the slow end, if you have an engine that just won't run smoothly any slower, you should bring any slower engines up to match it. I find it easiest to match slow end first, then figure out which is the faster at the top end and reduce that down. Curious about a preferred order as well.
Speed Matching is one of those "dark arts". I've been doing this for years, thought I had figured out the "best" way but have since found better ways to do things, I think. A couple of things I've learned: 1) The "droop" for digitrax decoders is a "half-byte" thus can store values from 0 (off) to 16 (maximum) BUT, that only controls BEMF when in non-consisted mode. IF you are using advanced consisting (CV19), then BEMF is controlled by the second "half-byte" within the data and in that case, you have to multiple the number by 16 and add to the basic droop. Thus is you wanted a droop value of say "5" for BOTH consisted and non-consisted locos, you'd want to write a value of 5 + (16*5) = 85. However, in some versions of the JMRI Digitrax decoder layout, the advanced consist BEMF is on a different page and you'd write "5" in both locations. WAY confusing. 2) The BEMF, when set to lower numbers (around 3) (3+3*16=52) can be useful, even when consisting as it will help slow running a whole bunch and with a lower setting they won't be fighting each other. I used to always set mine to 0 but have since returned to a lower setting. 3) I always write my Consist number to CV19 (Advanced consist number) BEFORE speed matching as I find the locos can react different. Especially if there is any BEMF present when unconsisted as it may not be there when consisted (see #1 above). 4) I only use a 3 point curve unless I am having a real difficult time. My preference is to set my hight speed at about 120mph, that way I can "bring them home" real quick if I need to. I set my start speed at "just barely moving". My home system is 14.4V on the track but the club I run on is 15.? V so things run faster on the club layout. I set my mid speed to 50mph. That way I tend to play around in the bottom half of the throttle. On some of the ones that I use the full 28 speed step, I have 2/3 throttle set to around 60 to 70 MPH and then a more rapid increase to full speed. 5) Oh and as someone else stated, let them locos go around for a few minutes, both directions, to warm them up. 6) I run the locos around the track and try to adjust only ONE locomotive (the trailing one) to keep up with the lead loco. 7) When finally done, one loco will always be a tiny bit faster than the other, I put that one behind the other one so the "stronger" one is pulling the load. 8) I have built "intrack" speedometers so I no longer have to use the portable one and found out some interesting things. I put one one each side of my oval (near side and far side) and even though I've done my best to level the layout, locos run faster (by 5 to 8 mph) on one side than the other.
See more about how to upgrade and maintain model railroad locomotives for your layout here: ua-cam.com/video/dM8kDjS1yVo/v-deo.html
One thing I would add is to warm up the locomotives for about 5 minutes (forward and reverse) before setting speed values. I have noticed a good bit of speed variance from a cold to fully warmed up locomotive (especially Atlas units) when doing speed matching. Other than that all the things you covered are tried and true methods for speed matching.
That is a good point and a good tip. Thanks.
I realize that this video is not a new one, but I found it to be very informative. So much so that I took notes that I'm going to print out and take out to the train building and of course along with the computer to speed match with. Thanks for making this video.
Im learing as well but is he useing a laptop computer?? Im lost there
thank you for sharing detailed video
Excellent video. Thank you Ron.
welcome back , glad to see your active and posting videos . your one of the great modelers in our hobby . hope all is well and peace to you .
That is high praise. I'm not sure that's quite true, but I do enjoy passing on what I do know. Thanks so much.
That was a very explanation. Thanks for that.
Great video Ron on a difficult subject. Well handled.
Great video and loads of information.
Great video. Thanks Ron.
I love your channel.
Thank you.
Helpful video!!! This shows me that there's hope for my locos, which I previously tried to get somewhat matched. I think now I DO want to get a USB connection and be able to use the Computer as the interface for programming. I had previously decided that I didn't want to use a computer for the layout, but now I'm reconsidering that, or at least considering a computer in the hobby room to use for a programming track and test spot on the workbench...
Great video Ron. In fact it is the first one for Decoder Pro (of many) that makes complete sense to me. all put in easy to follow language etc..
Great video! I need to get one of those speedometers and speed match my 88 locomotives some day.
Wow nice update you done with loads going on.
Ron thanks very much for replying to my comment. It's nice to see other people's work to get idea to improve my Channel. Take Care & Stay Safe.
This sure is good to know. I don't have this at all but it sure is great info for all of this to know! Wow the World of Trans have changed but this is a good thing :). Thanks for the video and take care!!!!
Nice Ron, Mike
Thanks!
I just use my speedometer to speed matching only. It works for me great. Bob
I would suggest you also talk about reverse trim. Some engines have quite a difference in running speed when the direction is changed. If you use the top and bottom speed for all your locos, they should all run the same. Key work being should.
Do you turn the BEMF back on once you have matched them?
I still run analog DC on my layout. Since I stick with one manufacturer (Athearn) speed matching has been relatively easy. Some of the later blue-box units have better motors so they tend to run faster. I can slow those down some by putting a resistor in series with the motor. 2 watt, 2-5 ohms. Have to experiment a bit. They don't have to be perfect, just close enough so they don't bind up or wheel slip when in a MU config.
I made my own 5 amp controller so running a consist of 8 locomotives is possible with no mechanical "talk-back" from the units. Quite smooth actually.
Nice video. I model in HO scale with all sound locos, but I use a similar method to speed match my locos. I use a NCE PowerCab system with the NCE interface. I have no problems with my ESU decoders on JMRI using this set up. For my speed matching I have an oval of track right by my PC so I can adjust the settings as the loco is running. For speed matching I use 28 step mode, but when actually running on the layout I use 128 step mode. I first set the minimum speed to around 1.5 mph (scale), then top speed (usually 66 mpg), and then step 14 (mid point) to 33 mph. On most ESU decoders I can acchieve this with CVs 2, 5 and 6, but with SoundTraxx decoders I usually have to use the 28 step speed table (JMRI makes that so easy). Sometimes I also find that I have to adjust the forward and/or reverse trim with CVs 66 and 95.
Something interesting I discovered when I first started speed matching was that I would start running at step 28 and check the speed. Then I would decrease the speed on step at a time (27, the 26, 25, etc) until I reached the desired top speed. As I did this I noticed that the top speed actually increased for a while before going down to the desired speed. Since the decoder doesn't send a continuous voltage to the motor, but instead a series of pulses, there is a point where the motor can't handle any more pulses and begins to choke, reducing the maximum speed. This is important to note because when setting the maximum speed you want to make sure that the decoder is set below the "choke" point.
Regarding ESU decoders and Decoder Pro, I didn't go into detail, but yes, Decoder Pro works fine for CVs below 255. It is the advanced CVs, above 255, which control advanced sound and lighting features where Decoder Pro has issues with ESU decoders and vice versa.
@@RonsTrainsNThings That is true. I also use the LokProgrammer for my sound settings on ESU decoders.
Getting a speedometer was always on my list. Let me tell you finding the Accutrack Speedometer was quite the challenge. I finally did find one but pretty much everyone is out of stock right now.
You make that look so easy. Could you do a video on speed matching With esu
I might, but the process is virtually identical. In fact, you can speed match ESU decoders with Decoder Pro. It is the CVs above 255, used for sound and lighting features, that causes problems. That said, speed matching with the LokProgrammer is virtually identical to JMRI.
Let me start by saying, I have never tried this so it could be a stupid question but if you have the speedometer, why not program every loco to it’s actual scale speed? Make the first step stopped, the second step the start speed, and then increase each step by 5 mph until you reach all 28 steps. Top speed would come out to 130 mph or you could limit it like you said to 90 mph which would be reached at speed step 20 and make 21-28 the same 90 mph. If you did that then all of your locos would be speed matched to their actual scale speed and you would know that each speed step raised the speed 5 mph. Just a thought, let me know if you think it would work. Thanks for the tutorial Ron.
Who knew that a EMD SD-70 MAC could double as a high speed bullet train!! That little guy had some zip! I might have missed it but do you top out the speed of your loco's similar to the prototypes?
I mentioned in the video, I set a top speed of about 90 scale MPH. That is faster than I want to run them, but the extra umpff helps when pulling loads up grades, like in a helix.
This is the one aspect of the hobby that absolutely scares me to this day. Next to certain complex wiring, speed matching is on my list of undesired tasks.
Could you please do a video on speed matching locomotives using the Digitrax DT602D throttle system, if you have it?
Even though I don't personally use JMRI, these are still great tips for speed matching locomotives. I am curious about advanced consisting locomotives, I tried advanced consisting some HO locomotives on the club layout back in October, not only did I mess up with one of the locomotives (it was still set to its factory default address of 3), it jacked up all the other locomotives with that same address plus I couldn't clear the consist, any thoughts or maybe a future video on the subject? Thanks!
I will see what I can do here.
@@RonsTrainsNThings cool, thanks!
And the rest of the club was very pleased with Randall……
good show. i have several lok sound locos. how do you hook the esu lok programmer to the pr3? i think that i have a pr 4 i have a lot of trouble getting a loco on the roster. and how do you know what decoder is the one in it? i get the manufacture number but there are several choices to choose from. how do i know which one to pick? i watched your video on jmri last night. thank you.
Hans Tanner from Iott Chanel is creating speed car that will be able to program a locomotive automatically. It should simplify this task.
Any suggestions on how to speedmatch without an Accutrack II as they are now discontinued and unobtanium?
Can you run a separate track off of the fixed 20vdc from the power pack?. I’ve been trying with different electronic parts but with no luck.
I'm not sure I understand. Are you running DC power?
Ron's Trains N Things yes
I add my mainline track to my test track with a double throw- double pole switch. So I switch back and forth from test track to mainline without having to go back and forth to my layout.
I do this without JMRI or a speedometer. Not as fast or easy but it will work.
What is the advantage of speed matching?
I notice the 2 scale trains BNSF’s I have are almost bang on, same with the 2 Broadway Limited I have. My others (Kato, Atlas, Rapido) all run well with each other.
Don’t get me wrong it’s not perfect and sometimes I hear a loco going faster then the other and slipping and I notice that some take off faster and then almost match the speed by themselves.
Is it better to adjust the faster loco to match the slower or the slower loco to match the faster?
Is there a preferred line up of locos (assuming that one will always be slightly faster than the other)- ie put the faster one in the front, or put the slower one in the front?
For the first, it depends on whether you're adjusting the top speed or slow speed. If you have an engine that will only run so fast, you need to drop any faster loco to match it. Same thing on the slow end, if you have an engine that just won't run smoothly any slower, you should bring any slower engines up to match it. I find it easiest to match slow end first, then figure out which is the faster at the top end and reduce that down.
Curious about a preferred order as well.
Have you found the instructions on the back of your MRC throttle for consisting not to be accurate enough?
Speed Matching is one of those "dark arts". I've been doing this for years, thought I had figured out the "best" way but have since found better ways to do things, I think.
A couple of things I've learned:
1) The "droop" for digitrax decoders is a "half-byte" thus can store values from 0 (off) to 16 (maximum) BUT, that only controls BEMF when in non-consisted mode. IF you are using advanced consisting (CV19), then BEMF is controlled by the second "half-byte" within the data and in that case, you have to multiple the number by 16 and add to the basic droop. Thus is you wanted a droop value of say "5" for BOTH consisted and non-consisted locos, you'd want to write a value of 5 + (16*5) = 85. However, in some versions of the JMRI Digitrax decoder layout, the advanced consist BEMF is on a different page and you'd write "5" in both locations. WAY confusing.
2) The BEMF, when set to lower numbers (around 3) (3+3*16=52) can be useful, even when consisting as it will help slow running a whole bunch and with a lower setting they won't be fighting each other. I used to always set mine to 0 but have since returned to a lower setting.
3) I always write my Consist number to CV19 (Advanced consist number) BEFORE speed matching as I find the locos can react different. Especially if there is any BEMF present when unconsisted as it may not be there when consisted (see #1 above).
4) I only use a 3 point curve unless I am having a real difficult time. My preference is to set my hight speed at about 120mph, that way I can "bring them home" real quick if I need to. I set my start speed at "just barely moving". My home system is 14.4V on the track but the club I run on is 15.? V so things run faster on the club layout. I set my mid speed to 50mph. That way I tend to play around in the bottom half of the throttle. On some of the ones that I use the full 28 speed step, I have 2/3 throttle set to around 60 to 70 MPH and then a more rapid increase to full speed.
5) Oh and as someone else stated, let them locos go around for a few minutes, both directions, to warm them up.
6) I run the locos around the track and try to adjust only ONE locomotive (the trailing one) to keep up with the lead loco.
7) When finally done, one loco will always be a tiny bit faster than the other, I put that one behind the other one so the "stronger" one is pulling the load.
8) I have built "intrack" speedometers so I no longer have to use the portable one and found out some interesting things. I put one one each side of my oval (near side and far side) and even though I've done my best to level the layout, locos run faster (by 5 to 8 mph) on one side than the other.
To me DCC is a dark art… still. And i watch alot of these vids
The better JMRI practice is to read full sheet on the CVs tab, rather than read all sheets.