The other variable is that once you involve lips, you have to be able to manipulate them within the mouthpiece, and not be too cramped in order to play effectively. So although in theory the smaller mouthpiece seems to make more sense for higher notes, it isn't always the case, because some players will be able to play much higher with a larger mouthpiece because they have room to control what their lips are doing, and use lip strength, opposed to brute force forcing their mouthpiece against their lips because they can't control them and play any other way, resulting in limited endurance and sore bruised lips. Lip texture, teeth formation, horn bore, lip thickness, and your ability to control the aperture are all additional factors in choosing the right mouthpiece.
The only problem with your analogy is that you are making the assumption that someone using a smaller rim diameter is using brute force. And in my experience, it's the exact opposite. The only way you can make a small in diameter work is by working efficiently, as brute force just simply doesn't work.
@@trumpetthoughts Perhaps you are misinterpreting what I'm attempting to say. As I stated, "it isn't always the case". I too use a fairly small mouthpiece and I know many great players who use small mouthpieces. My point is that due to physical differences a small mouthpiece isn't always the answer for everyone, and some people will have more success with a mouthpiece suited to their physical make up, opposed to trying to make a small mouthpiece work for them because they were told it would help them play higher, when it may have the opposite effect. Also, my assumption is not that a small mouth piece resorts to using brute force necessarily, my thoughts are that if you can't control your lips, people often resort to brute force.
Sure - but the real point is here is what consitutes a small mouthpiece will vary by individual. For me, using TCE, a small diameter is anything smaller than a 10.5C. Whereas someone who normally uses a Bach 1.5 might find a 3C or 7C to be as small as they can go.@@georgerose8727
@@trumpetthoughts Yes, in a round about way, that is largely what I was saying. Good luck with the TCE, as I know some players who have had amazing luck with it and play marvellously. Me, not so much, and after some lessons with Jerry and one of his successful students, purchasing his Sima Trumpet and mouthpiece(much like a 10.5 C), I gave up after about a year of struggling, as I couldn't get things working well enough to use on a gig and it was interfering with my normal way of playing. Jerry claimed that it could work for anyone, but perhaps I was too old to be trying to break old habits. My reason for trying it was to extend my playing life, by making playing easier, but I have reverted back to my original method which started out as Reinhardt.
In my experiences, the MPC I.D. a player uses is personal, but the cup depth and shape are more paramount I've found (as are throat sizes, backbores, etc). Now, there are cases in which a player might change rim diameters over their playing career (going larger or smaller) due to our teeth. Yes! Teeth! Every 5 years we ALL go through what's known as a "dental cycle" meaning, our teeth shift gradually and over time, this may or may not affect certain players. For me personally, in the past 34+ years, I've pretty much stayed in the .630-.625 I.D. size. But with shifting teeth, I've had to alter some inner rim contours due to teeth jutting out and digging into the inside lip membrane while playing. I've even had some teeth filed but, I don't recommend that for most unless absolutely necessary.
You're experience follows conventional wisdom, other than the fact that you're using a smaller inner diameter than most. The point that I was making is that it's okay to use different inner diameters if you're playing ranges vary widely.
Fantastic video. When i play back row cornet in my brass band i play a 17 id deep cup when i play front row i play 16.5 id and medium cup. Some of my brass band colleges think I am nuts. Many brass band plays use the same mouthpiece for their playing life. To change the id for most is unthinkable. Why?
I wonder if you could recommend a Lotus mpc for me, now that I've watched this video a couple times. Something with a slightly smaller inner diameter than I'm currently on? I currently use a Wedge 665MDV, meaning .665 inner diameter, with a bigger throat and backbore than normal. It's very comfortable on my chops and is a nice orchestral piece. But now I'm playing the 1st trumpet parts in a good community band, and most of the time the charts are at the top of the staff - and above! It would be nice to have something where I don't have to work so hard and can have a little more endurance. I'm not playing lead; I still need to blend in with the section, so I don't need a whole lot of "sizzle". What do you think? The generation 2's are on sale, if I could find one that works. Suggestions?
The other variable is that once you involve lips, you have to be able to manipulate them within the mouthpiece, and not be too cramped in order to play effectively. So although in theory the smaller mouthpiece seems to make more sense for higher notes, it isn't always the case, because some players will be able to play much higher with a larger mouthpiece because they have room to control what their lips are doing, and use lip strength, opposed to brute force forcing their mouthpiece against their lips because they can't control them and play any other way, resulting in limited endurance and sore bruised lips. Lip texture, teeth formation, horn bore, lip thickness, and your ability to control the aperture are all additional factors in choosing the right mouthpiece.
The only problem with your analogy is that you are making the assumption that someone using a smaller rim diameter is using brute force. And in my experience, it's the exact opposite. The only way you can make a small in diameter work is by working efficiently, as brute force just simply doesn't work.
@@trumpetthoughts Perhaps you are misinterpreting what I'm attempting to say. As I stated, "it isn't always the case". I too use a fairly small mouthpiece and I know many great players who use small mouthpieces. My point is that due to physical differences a small mouthpiece isn't always the answer for everyone, and some people will have more success with a mouthpiece suited to their physical make up, opposed to trying to make a small mouthpiece work for them because they were told it would help them play higher, when it may have the opposite effect. Also, my assumption is not that a small mouth piece resorts to using brute force necessarily, my thoughts are that if you can't control your lips, people often resort to brute force.
Sure - but the real point is here is what consitutes a small mouthpiece will vary by individual. For me, using TCE, a small diameter is anything smaller than a 10.5C. Whereas someone who normally uses a Bach 1.5 might find a 3C or 7C to be as small as they can go.@@georgerose8727
@@trumpetthoughts Yes, in a round about way, that is largely what I was saying. Good luck with the TCE, as I know some players who have had amazing luck with it and play marvellously. Me, not so much, and after some lessons with Jerry and one of his successful students, purchasing his Sima Trumpet and mouthpiece(much like a 10.5 C), I gave up after about a year of struggling, as I couldn't get things working well enough to use on a gig and it was interfering with my normal way of playing. Jerry claimed that it could work for anyone, but perhaps I was too old to be trying to break old habits. My reason for trying it was to extend my playing life, by making playing easier, but I have reverted back to my original method which started out as Reinhardt.
I still love the Reinhardt stuff! Wish you well!@@georgerose8727
Good chat, found that interesting thanks
Glad you enjoyed it!
Air biscuits, ha! Love it!
Right?!
looking at your set up . AR mpc on a Gansch horn ? Kid in a candy store ! Kudos and thanks ! Best in 2024 !
Thank you! I am a lucky dog that's for sure.
In my experiences, the MPC I.D. a player uses is personal, but the cup depth and shape are more paramount I've found (as are throat sizes, backbores, etc). Now, there are cases in which a player might change rim diameters over their playing career (going larger or smaller) due to our teeth. Yes! Teeth! Every 5 years we ALL go through what's known as a "dental cycle" meaning, our teeth shift gradually and over time, this may or may not affect certain players. For me personally, in the past 34+ years, I've pretty much stayed in the .630-.625 I.D. size. But with shifting teeth, I've had to alter some inner rim contours due to teeth jutting out and digging into the inside lip membrane while playing. I've even had some teeth filed but, I don't recommend that for most unless absolutely necessary.
You're experience follows conventional wisdom, other than the fact that you're using a smaller inner diameter than most.
The point that I was making is that it's okay to use different inner diameters if you're playing ranges vary widely.
Would you happen to know the size equivalent of a Bach 10 1/2 C to an AR Resonance mouthpiece?
Yup! That would be the S diameter. So an S-C - great mouthpiece!
Available here: erniewilliamson.com/m-928-ar-resonance.aspx
@@trumpetthoughts Awesome thank you!!
Fantastic video. When i play back row cornet in my brass band i play a 17 id deep cup when i play front row i play 16.5 id and medium cup. Some of my brass band colleges think I am nuts. Many brass band plays use the same mouthpiece for their playing life. To change the id for most is unthinkable. Why?
I don't know, but what you're doing makes sense to me.
I wonder if you could recommend a Lotus mpc for me, now that I've watched this video a couple times. Something with a slightly smaller inner diameter than I'm currently on? I currently use a Wedge 665MDV, meaning .665 inner diameter, with a bigger throat and backbore than normal. It's very comfortable on my chops and is a nice orchestral piece. But now I'm playing the 1st trumpet parts in a good community band, and most of the time the charts are at the top of the staff - and above! It would be nice to have something where I don't have to work so hard and can have a little more endurance. I'm not playing lead; I still need to blend in with the section, so I don't need a whole lot of "sizzle". What do you think? The generation 2's are on sale, if I could find one that works. Suggestions?
Sure thing - I'd suggest trying the Lotus 7L2 - available here: erniewilliamson.com/search.aspx?searchterm=lotus+7l2
Many thanks!@@trumpetthoughts
Now you have me wanting to geek out on mouthpieces. lol. This gets expensive, being as you know I play AR... lol...
I'm in the same boat - I get it.
Good vid I’m always jumping between a 7 and 3 rim, wish I could make my mind up 😫
I think it's okay to use both diameters. Use the 7 when you don't need the thicker sound and lower register isn't prominent.
Bobby shew lead compare to jazz yamaha mouthpieces are the proof
Well, those have both different diameters and different cup depths, but yes, I see what you are saying.