Hey all! Like the last episode, this one turned out to be pretty dense, and I couldn't get to all of the information I might have ideally covered. If there are any questions you still have after watching, I'm more than happy to answer them in the comments. Thanks as always for watching and supporting this series!
This was super helpful! One of the best explanations of the wide world of mouthpieces I've seen. As someone who took a few years off of playing after college and started playing in brass band a couple years ago, I'm rediscovering what works for me. Currently working on a custom piece-this video has given me some ideas!
There's good reason it is so ubiquitous. Nothing wrong with spending your whole career on one. I personally find most 3C's to be a little too bright for me, and I also believe "3C" to be one of the least consistent sizes between or even within brands/makers. For instance, I like the Olds/Giardinelli/CKB take on the 3C, which tends to be almost a 1-1/2C width but a very efficient slight-V to the cup that gives the mouthpiece a good jazz band/big band sound for a player like me. But then Bach 3C's are such a mess. Some are almost as small as 7C's, others MUCH larger. Furthermore, the nominal value of 16.3mm in the catalog makes absolutely no sense. I think the average Bach 3C is not quite as large as those other makers I mentioned above.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass i just subscribed nice video men...i changed 7c to 3c many years ago with like 17 or 18 years old and my sound instantly improved a lot then i stoped playing regularly for many years and now i started again more regularly im 35 now and i feel my lips to big at some times speacially when my lips are ripped appart at the end of just 1h30 of lead playing in a brass band...if im cold i cant even put out a low c so thats why i think maybe to small now...i tried a conn 5b that was in a old trumpet sounds good in low notes but high notes feel impossible...alen vizzuti felt like to cracky i dont know if my tearm is correct but i crack the notes to mutch maybe forcing to mutch air but the sound is feels tiny...what you think i should ask a shop to send me to try? i have even fatter lipps then you...i tried a guys 1c but just for like 10 sec but i felt at the moment (already tired) that i could move my tongue faster to stop air flow and maybe wouldnt hurt has mutch...if you can send me advice of what i should try...cant find that schilks in that number here i think
I am happy to have found your platform. I lost my Giardenelli 7 C (M-cup) and I have never found anything to replace it. NOW I KNOW M-cup is a location between C-cup and D-cup. Keep up the Awesome work.
Thank you for your kind words! The M cup is indeed a really nice one. Should be pretty consistent across Giardinelli, Lotus, GR, Reeves, etc. and is very popular thanks to being semi-shallow but not excessively so by any means. I really enjoy playing on my Giardinelli 3M for jazz work. Sorry to hear you lost the 7M.
I was thinking about this comment earlier. Here is a link to a TH forum where the seller has THREE Giardinelli 7M mouthpieces in stock from various eras! www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=145054&s=Updated--Additional-Fresh-Mouthpieces I myself am awaiting delivery of a Giardinelli 6S from this seller. Classic 60s lead sound. Very excited.
At 7:48 in the video your visual states that a Yamaha Shew Jazz trumpet mouthpiece has a tight backbore and a shallow cup. A Shew Jazz trumpet mouthpiece is almost the same as a Bach 3c but with a slightly rounder rim. The Shew Lead Mouthpiece has a tight backbore and a Shallow cup more along the lines of a Schilke 14A4a .
Sorry, I did mean the Shew Lead at that point. The Lead's backbore is extremely narrow and results in a very nasal sound from most players I've heard use it.
I was struggling along on a DW 4 until I gave a K&G 3B a chance. I've been playing it for about a month now and while I didn't like it at first it has really grown on me. Sometimes it takes a little persistence to find 'the one'.
It definitely is interesting because in my experience that goes both ways - there have been mouthpieces that I wasn't sold on for a long time and then they 'clicked' for me all of a sudden or gradually became very favorable, but then there have also been many trumpet mouthpieces that I *thought* I really liked, only to start experiencing all sorts of embouchure problems several weeks to a month later until I'd switch back to my main mouthpiece and all the issues would disappear.
Oh for sure. I have a drawer full of mouthpieces and I like to try different things sometimes. It also depends on the instrument I'm playing. I have 4 cornets and don't use the same setup on any of them. I have a Bach 6 that I use with my long cornet and it is great for that, but I wouldn't use it with my short cornets. Similarly I wouldn't use the K&G or DW mouthpieces on the long cornet.
@@musicalcubes That makes total sense. I think each cornet responds subtly differently to different mouthpieces. I tend to strongarm my DW2B on all my cornets unless I’m playing a drastically different style of music (might use my Roth nickel-bell for pep next year, for example, in which case I’d use a much shallower piece).
This has been such a helpful video! I myself have definite weaknesses that my director believes to be caused by my mouthpiece (I play on a Bach 3C currently, and my issue is that I don’t have enough “zip” or “bite” to my sound). I am definitely going to use this video to help me find a new mouthpiece
So glad you found it helpful, Lacey! The 3C is a great place to start for many but it ends up being far too bright for some and far too dark for others. No shame in exploring shallower cups or tighter backbores if that’s what it takes! Thanks for watching & hope to see you stick around!
At 17:30 you explain that you should know when a mouthpiece change is due, what do you want and then try some mouthpieces. You mention some specific brands and models for your example, but it's because you have lots of knowledge about mouthpieces. I know a friend that makes mouthpieces for all brass instruments, and in his workshop, he listens to your explanations of your areas to improve and to your sound and lets you try different rims, cups and shanks to tune the mouthpiece to your way of playing and your instrument. Then, after choosing and testing the right parameters using screwed components, he makes them into a single part mouthpiece. I see it akin to making custom glasses or ear plugs. My question is, does this service exist in other parts of the world? I think I'm very lucky to be able to do that, and it looks like there's a lot of room for this kind of services all around the world
That’s a good question. There are some makers whose factories or shops you can visit (such as Lotus or Monette) to have a mouthpiece consultation and try a variety of stock sizes and I know of more customizable makers like Harrelson or Vennture who allow you to tweak things a bit more. A lot of those companies operate at too high of a price point for me to reasonably buy from, and none are within driving distance for me.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Thank you! Yeah, maybe this is too niche, therefore the incentive to provide this service is low. My friend managed to make a business out of it 30 years ago, he is focused on making all kinds of brass mouthpieces and he has this custom fitting service.
I started off on a cornet Bach 5B. It just came with the Holton cornet I bought off eBay. When I got my trumpet in 9th grade, I bought a 7C, but it felt small with too much inner rim bite. The cornet 5B had soft edges. I ended up switching to a 3C after a year or two, pretty standard. Big enough and less bite. I haven’t really explored a bunch of trumpet mouthpieces but I didn’t really need to in HS band.
IMHO, the 5B is probably a better size to start on than the 7C. Like you said, the rim is softer, and the tone is a lot more pleasing. There's a good reason you see so many 5B cornet pieces (though not quite as many trumpet ones) floating around. It's a genuinely good mouthpiece. The 3C... well, yeah. It's the standard for high school for a reason. I really like the Bach '3' (no letter) mouthpiece. It's a similar depth to a B cup, but less V-shaped and more U-shaped, meaning its internal volume is a little greater.
We do very similar things with mouthpieces, which we've discussed before on a past video. Bb Trumpet = DW HT 1 for most playing, Picket Brass 1C with a Warburton 5 backbore for general commercial/big band, and a Giardinelli 3S for high lead. C Trumpet = Yamaha Mark Gould, basically a modified 17B4. Pic Trumpet = Schilke 14B for most. 14A4A for the really high stuff. Flugel = DW 2FL. Cornet = Yamaha Pierre Dutot (short shank) or DW 2B.
Pretty similar indeed. Just a couple notes/questions: - The Giaridnelli S cup is great. I have a true New York model 3S that is unfortunately a cornet shank piece but I had to have anyway. Should I ever bring a cornet to a big band or my university's athletic band, I guess that'll be the mouthpiece I use. Otherwise, looks like I'm stuck using my DEG cornet-to-trumpet adapter. - Have you gotten to try any Schilke 17 diameters alongside your Gould or the Yamaha 17B4? I also figured it was more or less a 17/1.25C with 24 throat and symphonic backbore, but I've tried a couple Schilke 7's since (17D4D trumpet, 17D4 cornet) and both seem to have such an angled rim that it makes the ID feel much smaller than a Bach 1.25 ID. Any thoughts? - Is the Dutot cornet mouthpiece only a 2B in terms of cup depth? I thought it was closer to a 2 and as a result was scared to try it. Also curious to know how it compares to the Yamaha 16E "traditional" cornet piece if you've gotten to try that.
I haven't tried any Schilke 17's. I have also noticed that the Yamaha vs. Schilke numbers are off by about 2 or 3 numbers. A yamaha 17 feels closer to a Schilke 14 to me and in my crude measurements. The Yamaha Dutot... I'd say the cup is about the same in feel to a DW B cup, but the Dutot's inner rim is a tad smaller than a DW 2B. The published measurements on the Dutot is 16.9 mm, I think.(?) The throat is a little more narrow on the Dutot compared to DW throats. For me (using the Dutot), notes above the staff pop out much easier. The Dutot is described as a French style cornet mouthpiece. It does produce a sweet sound, with me at least. The rim is narrow in thickness too. I'm one of those that sounds really bad on Bach style cornet mouthpieces.
I don’t know if this is normal, but coming from me, whose only been in band for 2 years, our director started us on bach 5C’s, and that’s still what we use.
Yep, the Bach 5C and 7C are the two most common starter mouthpieces. Both solid choices for the first few years of playing, no need to look at much of anything else until high school.
@@dom1champ Also a pretty typical choice. It won’t be magic for your playing, but a lot of people find the 3C a little more comfortable once they’ve been playing for a few years.
Great video Samuel. Have you already access the trumpet mouthpiece comparator website, trumpet cloud? Maybe you can do a video talking about the inconsistence of bach inner diameters and cups across their models.
I have used the online mouthpiece comparator provided by Kanstul to test the properties of certain mouthpieces, and that is indeed a subject I’d like to talk about in a future video, but I think it’s a little unfair to single out Bach when several big makers are all known for their inconsistency between and even within sizes.
I play on a Marcinkiewicz 5s and I find that the c/v cup works for me, producing a good symphonic sound. Of course the symphonic s backbore must help in producing a good sound. The Marcinkiewicz 5s has an inner diameter of 16.84 mm which is a compromise for me, having previously played on a Marcinkiewicz 2s, which I found myself struggling with. Marcinkiewicz make some really good mouthpieces.
Here is a real world example of how complicated this can be. I play a James R New piccolo mouthpiece that's a bit like a 7D. It's great for standing up and playing a solo but last week I had a concert with regular switches to piccolo in the middle of a piece. The intonation was crazy bad and switching back to Bb was really difficult. So I looked through my mouthpiece dump and ended up with a Warburton 1MV on a medium backbore. Not an obvious choice but it got round the problem. The intonation was spot on and I was able to switch a lot easier.
Very interesting! It just goes to show than intuition can only get you so far. Do you think you'll be making the switch permanently from the New to the 1MV on piccolo or is the latter just a 'failsafe' for gigs where you have to switch horns frequently?
@@SamuelPlaysBrass It's far too big. Under normal circumstances the New is the correct mouthpiece for me on that instrument. I was trying to cover two parts last week that happened not to overlap, but in one bit I had 7 beats to change instrument and play straight onto piccolo trumpet.
@@GordonHudson Recently did a similar thing on sop-my usual was a Curry 1.5P, but on a gig where straight afterward I had to go play in an orchestra, I used my Hammond 3L instead. Similar ID, but much deeper. Now I wish I’d wasted less time trying to make the Curry work for me.
Jazz verses classical, which do you prefer? Me? I love all music. I have loved jazz since i was 14. Classical, about the dame but i admit, jazz is my favorite misic,... except progressive rock and techno electronic. I'm basically a keyboard player. Keith Emerson, may he rest in peace. My favorite jazz musician is Klaus Doldinger! But, when you love music, all musicians are heros and all music are beautiful landscapes.
Mouthpiece-dysphoria is very common among players. It's almost like being addicted to plastic surgery lol "just one more slight change and I'll be perfect"
That is definitely a good definition for “full” range or at least “main” range. For me, I like a mouthpiece that is easy from low F# to double G or A. Most mouthpieces will let me play that high or higher, but there are many that won’t (easily) let me below the staff.
What do you think of the Yamaha Bobby Shew JAZZ and its very rounded edge? The Bach 3 C is certainly sharper, but the sound is also more decisive. The Yamaha BSJazz is very mellow
We seem to have quite different impressions about the sound of the BS Jazz. I like it quite a bit, but specifically for when I desire a brighter, more pointed sound. To me, it is essentially a lead trumpet mouthpiece. It just goes to show how differently two players might play on the same mouthpiece.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass I think the Bach 3C is brighter than the BSJazz. The BSJazz responds more precisely, but certainly has a sweeter sound. Do you find the very rounded edge an advantage or a flaw? I'm talking about Jazz, not LEAD
@@maldrighi I understand. To me, the BS Lead is entirely out of the question. I found the BS Jazz to be fuller but still brighter than my Bach 3C. Granted, Bach 3C’s can also vary HEAVILY based on the exact year of manufacture. I personally do prefer the more rounded edge. Flat rims are not much fun for me-hence part of the reason I don’t play a 3C anymore.
Thanks Samuel and HELP please! I can't begin to process all these MP variables. I currently use either my Bach 6B or Puje Deep Vee 55 on my Puje "Shorty" model, which I love. I use the Puje MP for a darker flugel-ish tone and the Bach for more of the brassy brighter, higher-note side. These MPs look and feel totally different to play. Is there some logic to my choices and are there better ones for MPs?
Hi Ron, I strongly recommend that you watch episode 1 of this series: ua-cam.com/video/0YtXsvap4z4/v-deo.html This video (episode 5) assumes that the viewer has already watched episode 1, to save me the time of rehashing discussions on how mouthpiece parameters affect tone and playing experience. The short answer in your case, however, is yes: the Deep Vee 55 has a much deeper cup than the Bach 6B, resulting in a darker tone. The Bach B-cup, while deeper than the standard C, has a cup shape that is still friendly to the average set of chops and allows for high note production. You could try a 6C if you wanted to lean into the brighter, brassier side more, although it's a very subjective process.
Hey there! I have a question, I am a player that plays with braces, currently playing with a 7C. My high register is good (able to reach high G-C) considering my embouchure, but my lower register suffers. I am currently playing in the red of the lips, with my mouthpiece set lower than normal (I’ve surprisingly been able to play without any pain or discomfort). Any suggestions for a mouthpiece that could compensate?
Back when I had braces I played with a similar embouchure set. I didn’t know nearly as much about mouthpieces then, but I made a 3C and Yamaha Bobby Shew Jazz (very similar size to a 3C) work reasonably well. First off, nothing wrong with those mouthpieces. They are very popular for a reason. In your case, though, I might advocate for something a little different. Try out the 3C, but if that doesn’t improve things for you, I might suggest a wide-rim model like the 3CW or 7BW. Both of these have a wider rim surface and will sit more comfortably in the red zone. The 7BW has a deeper cup that may help with your tone in the lower register, whereas the 3CW has a similar cup depth but increased inner diameter compared to the 7C. The reason I wouldn’t necessarily recommend the standard 3C is because of a funny little inconsistency in Bach’s lineup: the 3C is shallower than all the other “C” cups. The 3CW, meanwhile, has a true C depth. It’s really bizarre. But in any case, if you’ve got a good high register and are struggling down low, I would hesitate to recommend anything with a shallower cup.
Hey, I also used a Megatone for the majority of my playing. I ended up switching off of it a few months to a Schagerl Apredato. Do you have any thoughts or feelings on it? It’s super comfortable and I’ve had several people try it and say it’s good (college professors and a marine band trumpeter)
Cool! I’ve never gotten to try an Apredato, and I have no idea how the water inside the outer shell would affect response beyond simply increasing mass. Sounds like a really interesting premise!
Hi @SamuelPlaysBrass, do you have any experience of the new wedge shaped mouthpieces, that rather than having a flat profile have a curved face to match the curve of the teeth? Some say they make a big difference to fatigue etc, would be great to hear your take. Thanks for the outstandingly informative video!
Thank you for your kind words, Colin! I get many questions about Wedge, but to be completely honest, I have really not been inclined to try. First off, I am afraid to switch to “boutique” brands or more specialized ones because of what that would do to my ability to play and fairly assess conventional mouthpieces (a huge part of my online persona). Second, I am the ironic type of player who benefits from the mouthpiece digging into my lips a bit-I play completely dry-lipped, prefer narrower and sharper rim contours for articulation and flexibility, and have felt a distinct lack of embouchure feedback while playing on concave or curved rim profiles. Nothing as severe as a Wedge but I’ve tried mouthpieces like the Sanders Contour model 17 and the Jet Tone 1M, each of which has some of that curvature, and I haven’t been sold on it. I probably wouldn’t be the guy to talk to about that sort of stuff. Sorry about that and thanks again for watching!
Thanks @@SamuelPlaysBrass, much appreciated. Thanks to your video I have gone back to my Yamaha 14B4, and am also considering an upgrade. Ideally I would find somewhere I can try out a range of mouthpieces, which would involve a bit of traveling. All the best.
I don’t know that you “should” buy anything, necessarily, but if you’re able to try a Bach mouthpiece ending in ‘W’ it’s definitely worth a shot. They have wider rim surfaces to distribute the pressure of the mouthpiece more gently across the face, which can be a big help when you have braces.
Having braces (I had some too) changes drastically your playing (sensation, sound...). I don't know how long you plan on keeping your braces, but if it's
Oh, that's funny, just posted a comment on how a friend of mine helps you finding the best mouthpiece for you in his workshop, and then he makes your final one-part mouthpiece. Why isn't this more common, instead of having to follow a trial and error approach?
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Yup, the thin standard Bach rims have NEVER worked for me. I need comfortable rims. Comfort>flexibility. Although, I don't find flexibility sacrificed.
Very helpful ingo. I am entering my 8th decade of playing (🫣) and my lips are paying the price. Seriously thought about lip fillers before seeing the Kardashians up close(😱) . Been playing the same mouthpiece (14b4b) for 55 years but Im in need of something more gentke? Softer? Anyway, thanks so much. Wish i could try some of those rejects of yours!’ Thanks again man🎺🫣😵💫
@@DavidFarey-jp6cx Hi David, thanks for your comment and I’m glad you found this video useful! It’s pretty incredible that you’ve played for 70+ years, not to mention being on the same mouthpiece for 55. If you’re desiring a softer sound, I can strongly recommend one of these following: Bach 3, 3B; Yamaha 14D4. They all also have slightly more rounded rims than their Schilke counterparts which will have the effect of feeling “softer” on the chops. Also worth seeing if a Schilke 14 or 14C2 might work. Schilke’s 2 and 3 rims shouldn’t leave as much of a dead ring on the chops in theory.
Hey all! Like the last episode, this one turned out to be pretty dense, and I couldn't get to all of the information I might have ideally covered. If there are any questions you still have after watching, I'm more than happy to answer them in the comments. Thanks as always for watching and supporting this series!
This was super helpful! One of the best explanations of the wide world of mouthpieces I've seen. As someone who took a few years off of playing after college and started playing in brass band a couple years ago, I'm rediscovering what works for me. Currently working on a custom piece-this video has given me some ideas!
So glad this video helped! I’m glad to hear you’re back to playing and even working on a custom mouthpiece-something I still need to do!
After a two-year (and very expensive) mouthpiece safari, I've settled on the ubiquitous 3C. It just plain works.
There's good reason it is so ubiquitous. Nothing wrong with spending your whole career on one. I personally find most 3C's to be a little too bright for me, and I also believe "3C" to be one of the least consistent sizes between or even within brands/makers. For instance, I like the Olds/Giardinelli/CKB take on the 3C, which tends to be almost a 1-1/2C width but a very efficient slight-V to the cup that gives the mouthpiece a good jazz band/big band sound for a player like me. But then Bach 3C's are such a mess. Some are almost as small as 7C's, others MUCH larger. Furthermore, the nominal value of 16.3mm in the catalog makes absolutely no sense. I think the average Bach 3C is not quite as large as those other makers I mentioned above.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass i just subscribed nice video men...i changed 7c to 3c many years ago with like 17 or 18 years old and my sound instantly improved a lot then i stoped playing regularly for many years and now i started again more regularly im 35 now and i feel my lips to big at some times speacially when my lips are ripped appart at the end of just 1h30 of lead playing in a brass band...if im cold i cant even put out a low c so thats why i think maybe to small now...i tried a conn 5b that was in a old trumpet sounds good in low notes but high notes feel impossible...alen vizzuti felt like to cracky i dont know if my tearm is correct but i crack the notes to mutch maybe forcing to mutch air but the sound is feels tiny...what you think i should ask a shop to send me to try? i have even fatter lipps then you...i tried a guys 1c but just for like 10 sec but i felt at the moment (already tired) that i could move my tongue faster to stop air flow and maybe wouldnt hurt has mutch...if you can send me advice of what i should try...cant find that schilks in that number here i think
I am happy to have found your platform. I lost my Giardenelli 7 C (M-cup) and I have never found anything to replace it. NOW I KNOW M-cup is a location between C-cup and D-cup. Keep up the Awesome work.
Thank you for your kind words! The M cup is indeed a really nice one. Should be pretty consistent across Giardinelli, Lotus, GR, Reeves, etc. and is very popular thanks to being semi-shallow but not excessively so by any means. I really enjoy playing on my Giardinelli 3M for jazz work. Sorry to hear you lost the 7M.
I was thinking about this comment earlier. Here is a link to a TH forum where the seller has THREE Giardinelli 7M mouthpieces in stock from various eras!
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=145054&s=Updated--Additional-Fresh-Mouthpieces
I myself am awaiting delivery of a Giardinelli 6S from this seller. Classic 60s lead sound. Very excited.
Fantastic. He’s done it again! Rewatching already
So glad you enjoyed!
Really, really helpful, I play a Curry 3bbc on cornet, changed from a DW 4b, I’m 80yrs old🤓😎
I like both the 3BBC and the Wick B series. Good on you for continuing to play and I'm glad this video is helpful!
At 7:48 in the video your visual states that a Yamaha Shew Jazz trumpet mouthpiece has a tight backbore and a shallow cup. A Shew Jazz trumpet mouthpiece is almost the same as a Bach 3c but with a slightly rounder rim. The Shew Lead Mouthpiece has a tight backbore and a Shallow cup more along the lines of a Schilke 14A4a .
Sorry, I did mean the Shew Lead at that point. The Lead's backbore is extremely narrow and results in a very nasal sound from most players I've heard use it.
FANTASTIC lessons, as all of your videos :)
Thank you so much, Nick!
I was struggling along on a DW 4 until I gave a K&G 3B a chance. I've been playing it for about a month now and while I didn't like it at first it has really grown on me. Sometimes it takes a little persistence to find 'the one'.
It definitely is interesting because in my experience that goes both ways - there have been mouthpieces that I wasn't sold on for a long time and then they 'clicked' for me all of a sudden or gradually became very favorable, but then there have also been many trumpet mouthpieces that I *thought* I really liked, only to start experiencing all sorts of embouchure problems several weeks to a month later until I'd switch back to my main mouthpiece and all the issues would disappear.
Oh for sure. I have a drawer full of mouthpieces and I like to try different things sometimes. It also depends on the instrument I'm playing. I have 4 cornets and don't use the same setup on any of them. I have a Bach 6 that I use with my long cornet and it is great for that, but I wouldn't use it with my short cornets. Similarly I wouldn't use the K&G or DW mouthpieces on the long cornet.
@@musicalcubes That makes total sense. I think each cornet responds subtly differently to different mouthpieces. I tend to strongarm my DW2B on all my cornets unless I’m playing a drastically different style of music (might use my Roth nickel-bell for pep next year, for example, in which case I’d use a much shallower piece).
This has been such a helpful video! I myself have definite weaknesses that my director believes to be caused by my mouthpiece (I play on a Bach 3C currently, and my issue is that I don’t have enough “zip” or “bite” to my sound). I am definitely going to use this video to help me find a new mouthpiece
So glad you found it helpful, Lacey! The 3C is a great place to start for many but it ends up being far too bright for some and far too dark for others. No shame in exploring shallower cups or tighter backbores if that’s what it takes! Thanks for watching & hope to see you stick around!
At 17:30 you explain that you should know when a mouthpiece change is due, what do you want and then try some mouthpieces.
You mention some specific brands and models for your example, but it's because you have lots of knowledge about mouthpieces.
I know a friend that makes mouthpieces for all brass instruments, and in his workshop, he listens to your explanations of your areas to improve and to your sound and lets you try different rims, cups and shanks to tune the mouthpiece to your way of playing and your instrument. Then, after choosing and testing the right parameters using screwed components, he makes them into a single part mouthpiece.
I see it akin to making custom glasses or ear plugs.
My question is, does this service exist in other parts of the world? I think I'm very lucky to be able to do that, and it looks like there's a lot of room for this kind of services all around the world
That’s a good question. There are some makers whose factories or shops you can visit (such as Lotus or Monette) to have a mouthpiece consultation and try a variety of stock sizes and I know of more customizable makers like Harrelson or Vennture who allow you to tweak things a bit more. A lot of those companies operate at too high of a price point for me to reasonably buy from, and none are within driving distance for me.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Thank you! Yeah, maybe this is too niche, therefore the incentive to provide this service is low.
My friend managed to make a business out of it 30 years ago, he is focused on making all kinds of brass mouthpieces and he has this custom fitting service.
I started off on a cornet Bach 5B. It just came with the Holton cornet I bought off eBay. When I got my trumpet in 9th grade, I bought a 7C, but it felt small with too much inner rim bite. The cornet 5B had soft edges. I ended up switching to a 3C after a year or two, pretty standard. Big enough and less bite. I haven’t really explored a bunch of trumpet mouthpieces but I didn’t really need to in HS band.
IMHO, the 5B is probably a better size to start on than the 7C. Like you said, the rim is softer, and the tone is a lot more pleasing. There's a good reason you see so many 5B cornet pieces (though not quite as many trumpet ones) floating around. It's a genuinely good mouthpiece. The 3C... well, yeah. It's the standard for high school for a reason. I really like the Bach '3' (no letter) mouthpiece. It's a similar depth to a B cup, but less V-shaped and more U-shaped, meaning its internal volume is a little greater.
We do very similar things with mouthpieces, which we've discussed before on a past video. Bb Trumpet = DW HT 1 for most playing, Picket Brass 1C with a Warburton 5 backbore for general commercial/big band, and a Giardinelli 3S for high lead. C Trumpet = Yamaha Mark Gould, basically a modified 17B4. Pic Trumpet = Schilke 14B for most. 14A4A for the really high stuff. Flugel = DW 2FL. Cornet = Yamaha Pierre Dutot (short shank) or DW 2B.
Pretty similar indeed. Just a couple notes/questions:
- The Giaridnelli S cup is great. I have a true New York model 3S that is unfortunately a cornet shank piece but I had to have anyway. Should I ever bring a cornet to a big band or my university's athletic band, I guess that'll be the mouthpiece I use. Otherwise, looks like I'm stuck using my DEG cornet-to-trumpet adapter.
- Have you gotten to try any Schilke 17 diameters alongside your Gould or the Yamaha 17B4? I also figured it was more or less a 17/1.25C with 24 throat and symphonic backbore, but I've tried a couple Schilke 7's since (17D4D trumpet, 17D4 cornet) and both seem to have such an angled rim that it makes the ID feel much smaller than a Bach 1.25 ID. Any thoughts?
- Is the Dutot cornet mouthpiece only a 2B in terms of cup depth? I thought it was closer to a 2 and as a result was scared to try it. Also curious to know how it compares to the Yamaha 16E "traditional" cornet piece if you've gotten to try that.
I haven't tried any Schilke 17's. I have also noticed that the Yamaha vs. Schilke numbers are off by about 2 or 3 numbers. A yamaha 17 feels closer to a Schilke 14 to me and in my crude measurements. The Yamaha Dutot... I'd say the cup is about the same in feel to a DW B cup, but the Dutot's inner rim is a tad smaller than a DW 2B. The published measurements on the Dutot is 16.9 mm, I think.(?) The throat is a little more narrow on the Dutot compared to DW throats. For me (using the Dutot), notes above the staff pop out much easier. The Dutot is described as a French style cornet mouthpiece. It does produce a sweet sound, with me at least. The rim is narrow in thickness too. I'm one of those that sounds really bad on Bach style cornet mouthpieces.
I don’t know if this is normal, but coming from me, whose only been in band for 2 years, our director started us on bach 5C’s, and that’s still what we use.
Yep, the Bach 5C and 7C are the two most common starter mouthpieces. Both solid choices for the first few years of playing, no need to look at much of anything else until high school.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass ah ok, I was going to move to a 3C anyways since I’m getting first parts for freshman year
@@dom1champ Also a pretty typical choice. It won’t be magic for your playing, but a lot of people find the 3C a little more comfortable once they’ve been playing for a few years.
Great video Samuel. Have you already access the trumpet mouthpiece comparator website, trumpet cloud? Maybe you can do a video talking about the inconsistence of bach inner diameters and cups across their models.
I have used the online mouthpiece comparator provided by Kanstul to test the properties of certain mouthpieces, and that is indeed a subject I’d like to talk about in a future video, but I think it’s a little unfair to single out Bach when several big makers are all known for their inconsistency between and even within sizes.
I play on a Marcinkiewicz 5s and I find that the c/v cup works for me, producing a good symphonic sound. Of course the symphonic s backbore must help in producing a good sound. The Marcinkiewicz 5s has an inner diameter of 16.84 mm which is a compromise for me, having previously played on a Marcinkiewicz 2s, which I found myself struggling with. Marcinkiewicz make some really good mouthpieces.
Here is a real world example of how complicated this can be. I play a James R New piccolo mouthpiece that's a bit like a 7D. It's great for standing up and playing a solo but last week I had a concert with regular switches to piccolo in the middle of a piece. The intonation was crazy bad and switching back to Bb was really difficult. So I looked through my mouthpiece dump and ended up with a Warburton 1MV on a medium backbore. Not an obvious choice but it got round the problem. The intonation was spot on and I was able to switch a lot easier.
Very interesting! It just goes to show than intuition can only get you so far. Do you think you'll be making the switch permanently from the New to the 1MV on piccolo or is the latter just a 'failsafe' for gigs where you have to switch horns frequently?
@@SamuelPlaysBrass It's far too big. Under normal circumstances the New is the correct mouthpiece for me on that instrument. I was trying to cover two parts last week that happened not to overlap, but in one bit I had 7 beats to change instrument and play straight onto piccolo trumpet.
@@GordonHudson Recently did a similar thing on sop-my usual was a Curry 1.5P, but on a gig where straight afterward I had to go play in an orchestra, I used my Hammond 3L instead. Similar ID, but much deeper. Now I wish I’d wasted less time trying to make the Curry work for me.
Jazz verses classical, which do you prefer? Me? I love all music. I have loved jazz since i was 14. Classical, about the dame but i admit, jazz is my favorite misic,... except progressive rock and techno electronic. I'm basically a keyboard player. Keith Emerson, may he rest in peace. My favorite jazz musician is Klaus Doldinger! But, when you love music, all musicians are heros and all music are beautiful landscapes.
Mouthpiece-dysphoria is very common among players. It's almost like being addicted to plastic surgery lol "just one more slight change and I'll be perfect"
Great video Samuel!👍👍👍
Thanks Peter!
You're so welcome!🤗
Hi Sam, you made a point to focus on the full range of the trumpet, not the high range…….what do you consider the full range to be? F#3 to C6? Thanks
That is definitely a good definition for “full” range or at least “main” range. For me, I like a mouthpiece that is easy from low F# to double G or A. Most mouthpieces will let me play that high or higher, but there are many that won’t (easily) let me below the staff.
Jazz is classical music in improvisation? Any opinions?
What do you think of the Yamaha Bobby Shew JAZZ and its very rounded edge?
The Bach 3 C is certainly sharper, but the sound is also more decisive. The Yamaha BSJazz is very mellow
We seem to have quite different impressions about the sound of the BS Jazz. I like it quite a bit, but specifically for when I desire a brighter, more pointed sound. To me, it is essentially a lead trumpet mouthpiece. It just goes to show how differently two players might play on the same mouthpiece.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass
I think the Bach 3C is brighter than the BSJazz. The BSJazz responds more precisely, but certainly has a sweeter sound. Do you find the very rounded edge an advantage or a flaw? I'm talking about Jazz, not LEAD
@@maldrighi I understand. To me, the BS Lead is entirely out of the question. I found the BS Jazz to be fuller but still brighter than my Bach 3C. Granted, Bach 3C’s can also vary HEAVILY based on the exact year of manufacture. I personally do prefer the more rounded edge. Flat rims are not much fun for me-hence part of the reason I don’t play a 3C anymore.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass The real problem with the Bach 3C is the sharp edge
Thanks Samuel and HELP please! I can't begin to process all these MP variables. I currently use either my Bach 6B or Puje Deep Vee 55 on my Puje "Shorty" model, which I love. I use the Puje MP for a darker flugel-ish tone and the Bach for more of the brassy brighter, higher-note side. These MPs look and feel totally different to play. Is there some logic to my choices and are there better ones for MPs?
Hi Ron, I strongly recommend that you watch episode 1 of this series: ua-cam.com/video/0YtXsvap4z4/v-deo.html
This video (episode 5) assumes that the viewer has already watched episode 1, to save me the time of rehashing discussions on how mouthpiece parameters affect tone and playing experience. The short answer in your case, however, is yes: the Deep Vee 55 has a much deeper cup than the Bach 6B, resulting in a darker tone. The Bach B-cup, while deeper than the standard C, has a cup shape that is still friendly to the average set of chops and allows for high note production. You could try a 6C if you wanted to lean into the brighter, brassier side more, although it's a very subjective process.
Hey there! I have a question, I am a player that plays with braces, currently playing with a 7C. My high register is good (able to reach high G-C) considering my embouchure, but my lower register suffers. I am currently playing in the red of the lips, with my mouthpiece set lower than normal (I’ve surprisingly been able to play without any pain or discomfort). Any suggestions for a mouthpiece that could compensate?
Back when I had braces I played with a similar embouchure set. I didn’t know nearly as much about mouthpieces then, but I made a 3C and Yamaha Bobby Shew Jazz (very similar size to a 3C) work reasonably well. First off, nothing wrong with those mouthpieces. They are very popular for a reason. In your case, though, I might advocate for something a little different. Try out the 3C, but if that doesn’t improve things for you, I might suggest a wide-rim model like the 3CW or 7BW. Both of these have a wider rim surface and will sit more comfortably in the red zone. The 7BW has a deeper cup that may help with your tone in the lower register, whereas the 3CW has a similar cup depth but increased inner diameter compared to the 7C.
The reason I wouldn’t necessarily recommend the standard 3C is because of a funny little inconsistency in Bach’s lineup: the 3C is shallower than all the other “C” cups. The 3CW, meanwhile, has a true C depth. It’s really bizarre. But in any case, if you’ve got a good high register and are struggling down low, I would hesitate to recommend anything with a shallower cup.
Hey, I also used a Megatone for the majority of my playing. I ended up switching off of it a few months to a Schagerl Apredato. Do you have any thoughts or feelings on it? It’s super comfortable and I’ve had several people try it and say it’s good (college professors and a marine band trumpeter)
Cool! I’ve never gotten to try an Apredato, and I have no idea how the water inside the outer shell would affect response beyond simply increasing mass. Sounds like a really interesting premise!
Hi @SamuelPlaysBrass, do you have any experience of the new wedge shaped mouthpieces, that rather than having a flat profile have a curved face to match the curve of the teeth? Some say they make a big difference to fatigue etc, would be great to hear your take.
Thanks for the outstandingly informative video!
(Switched back to my Yamaha 14B4 after watching your video, feels easier than my 3C)
Thank you for your kind words, Colin! I get many questions about Wedge, but to be completely honest, I have really not been inclined to try. First off, I am afraid to switch to “boutique” brands or more specialized ones because of what that would do to my ability to play and fairly assess conventional mouthpieces (a huge part of my online persona). Second, I am the ironic type of player who benefits from the mouthpiece digging into my lips a bit-I play completely dry-lipped, prefer narrower and sharper rim contours for articulation and flexibility, and have felt a distinct lack of embouchure feedback while playing on concave or curved rim profiles. Nothing as severe as a Wedge but I’ve tried mouthpieces like the Sanders Contour model 17 and the Jet Tone 1M, each of which has some of that curvature, and I haven’t been sold on it. I probably wouldn’t be the guy to talk to about that sort of stuff. Sorry about that and thanks again for watching!
Thanks @@SamuelPlaysBrass, much appreciated. Thanks to your video I have gone back to my Yamaha 14B4, and am also considering an upgrade. Ideally I would find somewhere I can try out a range of mouthpieces, which would involve a bit of traveling. All the best.
I feel that I have all the tools I will need to start playing trumpet. Except I think I will play cornet. ;)
Cornet’s the better choice ;)
Hey, my lesson teacher recommend I buy a 3CW mouthpiece.Should I. I currently play a 5c Bach,and have braces.
I don’t know that you “should” buy anything, necessarily, but if you’re able to try a Bach mouthpiece ending in ‘W’ it’s definitely worth a shot. They have wider rim surfaces to distribute the pressure of the mouthpiece more gently across the face, which can be a big help when you have braces.
Having braces (I had some too) changes drastically your playing (sensation, sound...). I don't know how long you plan on keeping your braces, but if it's
I like th I s guy, great video. He better get an "a+" on this project!😊
0:38 strap on? got it
Bro you KNOW I said “strap yourself in” 💀
@@SamuelPlaysBrass 😅
Sounds like a trumpet player should collect mouthpieces? I think so.
Everybody knows you buy every mouthpiece ever made.
How else are you supposed to narrow down the best fit for you?
Oh, that's funny, just posted a comment on how a friend of mine helps you finding the best mouthpiece for you in his workshop, and then he makes your final one-part mouthpiece.
Why isn't this more common, instead of having to follow a trial and error approach?
General rule: thin lips, wider rim. Thicker lips, thinner rims.
Definitely tracks. My thicker lower lip doesn’t cooperate well with wide rims.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass Yup, the thin standard Bach rims have NEVER worked for me. I need comfortable rims. Comfort>flexibility. Although, I don't find flexibility sacrificed.
Very helpful ingo. I am entering my 8th decade of playing (🫣) and my lips are paying the price.
Seriously thought about lip fillers before seeing the Kardashians up close(😱) .
Been playing the same mouthpiece (14b4b) for 55 years but Im in need of something more gentke? Softer?
Anyway, thanks so much.
Wish i could try some of those rejects of yours!’
Thanks again man🎺🫣😵💫
@@DavidFarey-jp6cx Hi David, thanks for your comment and I’m glad you found this video useful! It’s pretty incredible that you’ve played for 70+ years, not to mention being on the same mouthpiece for 55. If you’re desiring a softer sound, I can strongly recommend one of these following: Bach 3, 3B; Yamaha 14D4. They all also have slightly more rounded rims than their Schilke counterparts which will have the effect of feeling “softer” on the chops.
Also worth seeing if a Schilke 14 or 14C2 might work. Schilke’s 2 and 3 rims shouldn’t leave as much of a dead ring on the chops in theory.