*EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION* The Hitbox / Leverless controllers, Hitbox is indeed a brand name. None of the controllers shown in the video except the Crossup are Hitbox branded, Snackbox, Furin, Victrix etc, are Leverless Controllers. Been asked about this a lot since SF6's launch so... well time to make a video! There is no right or wrong answer really, but that said each controller type certainly has strengths and weaknesses so lets talk about it in this video! You should always go for what you personally prefer, but it never hurts to be armed with some knowledge!
Yeah, I only use analog sticks on my Dualsense Edge controller. It is way better than the pad when you get used to it. Been playing like that since SFIV.
I figured this wouldn't have my specific issue since I take the health of my hands extremely seriously but I use a custom pad with smart keys and some clawsocks so that I can be feather light and precise with my inputs. and one motion input I'm struggling with more than anything is quarter circle motion into DP motion, and as a Juri main that motion is very important to me. I know my situation is very specific but anything helps!
For me personally I have been stubborn, if it wasn't for my issues with my left arm I would have never left Arcade stick honestly. Thankfully we are entering the age of ergonomics in FG controllers and with that in mind the Rooflebox proper (not just the prototype thats in the video, one you can buy if you want) is getting much closer to being a reality so I will update you on that when we get there!
Weirdly I had a different problem - grew up playing on a stick, my good old MAS from the MvC2 days, but broke my hands a few times (boxing) so arthritis made it really hard for me to tap buttons. Had to choose between guitar or FGs, so I chose guitar. Transitioned over to controller, and boy was that a learning curve and a half. And thanks to modern controls I can actually play FGs without getting (as) aggravated at how bad my execution has gotten 🤣
I needs the rooflebox meow!! Great video roofle. Funny enough when i first saw the caption i was hoping you were gonna make the grand announcement release of the rooflebox, but some news is better than no news!
I’ve had the opposite issue. I grew up playing FGs on consoles, so always used pads. But then I would get bad tendinitis in my palm. So like in 2009 - 10 I went to stick, since moving at the arm/wrist was better. But now I get wrist problems when I play too long…😂
5:19 as a blanka player i remapped parry to triple kick so i can spam blankas foward hop which is TREMENDOUSLY important to blankas screen traveling. For example, 2 hops will NEGATE JP’s zoning and his little rift thing wont even pop, youll be well past them and in his face. It also goes thru one of his ghosts but not all of them
Yeah I do the same. I’m a Irish blanka player and was fairly new to sf but played many nether realm games high level. I think that alone turns his gameplay up by a mile
I will always dig the leverless controllers just due to the fact that I play a lot of piano and its a fun controller to use. I have both the Hitbox and the snackbox micro xl and love them both.
I bought a leverless, only because I play everything on PC, and I'm very used to play on keyboard, so pad felt weird... Having a lot of fun with my choice =]
started with stick myself, it super fun but i was bad n not getting better with it i tried keyboard n it felt so much better, i ordered a flatbox same night now i only use my flatbox, was 70$ cad but it works amazingly n makes game feel alot better. defs recommend if pad/stick isnt vibing for you
I'm not a pianist but I do type an awful lot and am pretty good at it. I do wonder if that translated into learning hitbox easier. Never struggled with the inputs people say are harder on hitbox. Except 720s.
If your on PC, Keyboard isn't a bad option. Works just like a leverless controller does and you have enough keys to map what ever scheme you want. I personally use the num pad for atttacks and asd keys and space for movement.
I do that too! I have di mapped to + so my pinky is always on it (kind of convenient that it’s such a big button) and the down arrow for parry so my right thumb is always on it
@@elzilcho222 I've got parry mapped to + and DI on 0 since my thumb rest on it. So, our schemes are pretty similar. I also have 7 & 9 set up as EX buttons cause I'm weird like that.
Got into fighting games when GGST came out after years of not playing. Couldn't get the stick down so I started playing on a Hitbox, but felt it was lacking some the more I used it. Especially when I saw all the new leverless ones coming out, but I was so inspired by the Rooflebox that I had to make my own. Been working with it the last couple days and my hands are thanking me.
There's a bit of a "leverless" effect if you use a game pad with back paddles. For example: Assign a back paddle to DOWN. Now you're using 2 fingers to do quarter/half circle motions(your index on the back paddle, and thumb on the Dpad) for faster reaction time.
Note: Even without sliding your finger across the d-pad since the dpad buttons are monolithic it can still result in an up/down input. Separating the buttons can help with accuracy and precision but you may still hit up due to user error especially on reaction
I've played all 3 for years except for the snackbox micro, which I've only gotten about 2 weeks ago. The snackbox micro is hands down already the best! My execution consistency is already better than with and pad, not to mention I have virtually no user fatigue (which is apparently an exceptional experience). The only difficulty is getting used to the movement, actually. I'm diamond with Chun Li and almost Plat 5 with juri. So, no master yet, but switching to leverless has not taken me 6 months or whatever to get used to. However, I, fortunately, did not have to limit my play time to 15 min at a time. I've never felt any pain and have played with it for hours at a time since the day I got it. Everyone is different though so keep that in mind. One more note the drive rush mechanic was the reason I wanted to switch to leverless and I was correct. It's much easier to land those now
The less stress thing was absolutely my biggest motivation for going leverless, too. There is no way I could play SF6 as much as I have been on a pad or a stick. It didn't take me 6 months either, more like 2-4 weeks. The hardest part for me was the jump button, but once I got over the mental hurdle of the jump button being the lowest button everything else was pretty easy to adapt to.
I was about to break into gold when my pad developed stick drift, so I built and wired myself a leverless to replace it. Dozens of designs, several failed 3d prints, a week of waiting on parts, and lots of hand soldering later and my hard work has gotten me to low silver! Let's goooo 😂
Recently switched to stick from pad because it's much easier on my hand health, and the travel time is actually a much, much larger disadvantage than I realised.
the newest xbox controller, the xbox series X, has such an amazing dpad imo. its got very good tactile responses where u can hear the click and feel it on each direction. And, its like the old sega controlers with grooves in the diagonals.
I bought one for PC (shmups) prior to getting an Xbox and words cannot describe how much I love it. I'm weird; I love the clicking of the d-pad but moreso I really like that I don't need muscle memory to know if I did a diagonal.
I went from gamepad to keyboard 3 weeks ago, now it's way easier to do motion or even charge inputs. It was easy for me on the left hand side cause I have thousands of hours playing shooters, right hand side took me getting used to but now it's all good. I'm planning to get a hitbox style latter but for now keyboard is plenty good.
Thanks for mentioning the thumb travel on pad. That was one of my biggest gripes too. Also, I tried to play lily on leverless and ended up just using stick because I kept missing cardinal directions. It's super annoying when you get a jump by mistake. Half circles in GG also required cardinal directions making leverless more of a pain because most characters used half circles. Overall I think stick is the best when it comes to playing all different kinds of fighting games though.
Check this out. Started playing on Mouse and Keyboard. Left hand: middle of keyboard, left thumb alt - parry, left thumb spacebar - jump, pointer finger, middle, ring k, j ,h - left right down. pinky on v for drive impact. Right hand on mouse: left click - jab, right click - light kick. Press both mouse buttons to grab. 2 side mouse buttons - medium kick and medium punch. Mouse scroll wheel up - heavy punch, mouse scroll down - sweep. Try it out if your on PC. Scroll wheel is only weird part. Fingers only have to move for scroll wheel heavies and thumb moves from alt and space for parry or jump.
The difference in price is pretty shocking. Most pads are around $80. But most leverless and sticks start around $200. So that is something to consider.
Everybody sleeping on good ol' keyboards. Got a 20$ Logitech keyboard here which is basically a Hitbox but with infinitely more customization options...
@@caspertrog1046iono hopefully that 20 dollars keyboard has anti ghosting. And also (as a tfh player, we compete on pc) keyboards are banned on most live tournaments to prevent both players wanting to be on keyboard… so that’s one consideration to upgrade to a leverless, particularly a wasd style popularized by mixbox
@martingutierrez694I wore out a dualshock4 D-Pad in a week. Now it wasn't busted. You can still play with it on every game. But it's no longer reliable for competition.
I actually do use analogue, once you learn it it is an improvement over d pad in some areas but you also sacrifice precision, which means you need to practice more often to stay sharp in your inputs. Advantage is that its better and faster for almost every motion input except the longer ones where you need extra precision. Disadvantage is dashing takes some practice to get used to and will not be as consistent. Learned it because it was better in GG strive, too used to it now so I have been adapting it for SF6 Also, tip for playing on pad, don't keep your middle finger on the trigger, only bring it up when needed. Your index can take care of the shoulder and trigger buttons by itself, and you will never need to press both together, as HP-HK is bound to your left shoulder button. Your index can be kept between both the bumper and trigger and go to one on reaction. If you keep both fingers there you might make a habit of mashing instead of making a concious choice between DI and parry. Also I recommend parry on left bumper and DI on trigger because DI is always pressed, while parry is tapped when trying to get a perfect parry on a fireball. A bumper simply makes more sense for something you want to sometimes tap instead of press down.
Sliding your index finger across the directional buttons is the most consistent way to do an spd. I mained lily on the snackbox week 1 and almost never missed a 360
A tip for doing 360s on leverless, you can slide your finger on the directions of the left hand and then do up + P/K with the right hand. Since you are using only 1 finger in the left hand is guaranteed to avoid diagonals
A disadvantage I've found for gamepads is the bumper buttons aren't really geared for fighting games. This is coming from a PS4 controller, but I've found that pressing HK + any other button for stuff like OD can be awkward for timing because you have to press HK AFTER the other kick button. Now this normally isn't an issue for some characters, but if you play characters like Juri where you HAVE to press HK for the OD version of a move, then finding that sweetspot can be finnicky. However, the advantage is you can map button inputs to L3 and R3. Don't want to press all three punch buttons for Yoga Teleport? Map it to a button. Want an OD button? Go for it. Want to taunt? I don't see why not. Also, thank you for the tip about using charge characters. Might make my inputs more precise.
For me, the biggset disadvantage is that you only use 1 finger for all directional inputs, so you have to move it. And you have to switch back and forward, like, a lot. It' just impossible to keep the same pace as with leverless (or keyboard) - not to mention the precision.
Great tip for charge characters on the game pad. I've been struggling to get consistent with sumo heatbutts and butt stomps with Honda, I'm gonna try this technique and see if it helps.
I personally use the fightstick. A few month ago I bought a hitbox and I do like it but honestly, I prefer the regular fightstick. Still nice to have tho. Great to have when friends come over and they forget their sticks. I can let them use mine and use the hitbox.
I really like that you put up the pros and cons of each type. i tried all three, and where i really like the movement of my character on a leverless controller, i massivly prefer the button layout on gamepad. im also really happy with the options that SF6 is giving me with controls. at the moment im still using modern, but at some point io wanna swap to classic just because it feels like i have more control over my character.
I was actually inspired by your *Rooflebox* to develop my own custom leverless controller with its own unique button layout. I'll be putting it together next week, so wish me luck! I decided to go leverless because I'm too imprecise with both the pad and the stick for directional inputs (I need that instant Cammy dive kick). Since I work typing all day long, though, I'm good with buttons that just need pushing. A good ole fashioned keyboard can just as good as a leverless controller (and even more comfortable if you go the ergonomic route) but my GPU's old and so I play on PS5. It's a shame SF6 doesn't natively support keyboards on it, and that Sony's support for keyboards and wireless peripherals in general is somewhat lacking.
I use the victrix fightpad which I recently got despite the high price. You get 6 face buttons so you can use all the triggers and shoulders for throw, DI, parry, and simulataneuous button assistance macros. Putting parry as r2 is rlly good for me to as an NRS main too gimme my block button. then I put the 4 back paddles as the 4 directions which I haven't fully implemented but I get faster dp interactions. If I played a character that needed tiger knees it would also help with that. Some hitbox shenanigans.
Thanks for the video Rooflemonger. My thoughts as a long time pad player who started on Super Nintendo and Genesis. 1. My biggest issues with the stick were leftward movements, espcially dashing left. My wrist got tired of it and I dropped a lot of things and switched back to pad. 2. I also found the right-most buttons too far off and didn't like hitting both MP/MK together for SF5. 3. Main reason I even tried switching to stick was health, as I hurt myself on the left thumb at one point for several days. 4. Biggest issue I have with Pad is hitting the L1, L2, R1, R2 buttons. I can't use L2 at all as I need my 2nd, 3rd and fourth fingers resting behind the left handle. Also, accidental supers lol. 5. SF6 definitely makes me feel like I can use more buttons, but I hesitate to buy an expensive pro pad, but will likely move to all-button for the health reasons you mentioned. 6. I noticed Razer is planning an all-button this year that will likely be closer to $300 as opposed to Victrix' $400 which has me thinking ...
I was primarily a stick user for 2D and pad user (claw style) for Tekken and 3D. For SF6, I’m actually having an easier time on pad because it’s easier for me to drive rush cancel consistently on pad. Also I find it easier to use the triggers for drive impact (I use the actual command). This is the first time I’m using my thumb to play with the face buttons (lights and mediums )
Didn't expect this video to answer some of my recent issues with doing 360 motions, but thanks a lot for explaining how those work. I'm playing leverless and have indeed just been doing the motion too fast. Just knowing that should help a lot with future consistency on those moves.
My HP button on my Qanba Crystal recently gave out and I've despaired over the thought of returning to pad... this video has motivated me to jump back in and learn it already. Thanks as always for the killer content roofle ❤
Keyboard is my preferred controller atm. I have a TKL so I use the nav keys (home page up page down all that jazz) for punches and kicks as there are 6 buttons. Right control for drive impact, asd space for movement and jump, parry on left shift. It feels super optimal (for me) as you also have more binds for other things like 2 kicks or 3 punches or whatever. It's basically a hitbox with unlimited buttons for you to find the optimal hand placement.
YES! this is my exact keyboard layout as well, with the addition of throw on W just because. it's extremely comfortable and my reaction time and precision is better than any other control method, by far. it can also sit in your lap. I don't feel the want for a leverless box at all. just make sure to get some fast switches that you enjoy
@@kyzak akko speed silvers are the current switches I have and I love them. I have grab on my right thumb on left arrow key but I never really use it because two lights is easy enough, but I like W grab too!
I'm a stick player but my right hand is slower and more often in pain, so I bought a leverless controller and I'm having so much fun. Takes time to fully get used to, but boy is it great to finally be able to dash or Drive Rush properly.
Just curious how would a leverless be any better for right hand pain? It's pretty much the same for your right hand for both stick and leverless right?
Keyboard! Or I guess whatever you have that's convenient and you enjoy. I wish I enjoyed standard controller play because that's usually the most convenient and portable between platforms.
I bought a nice arcade stick to try with fighting games, but I can't get over how much quicker a dpad feels to me for inputs. I'm sure it's something I could practice for months and get better with, but the super short travel of my thumb seems so much simpler and easier than using more of a wrist grip movement for a stick. I did get a Hori Octa PS5 controller though which I mostly prefer over a PS5 DualShock however both are definitely usable and good enough for me.
Leverless is very similar to playing on keyboard. In fact some of the leverless controllers actually use actual switches that are found in keyboards and you can even swap out other types of switches in some of them which is nice since keyboard switches can come in many many different flavors but the big 3 are linear, tactile and clicky switches with varying switches for each of those 3. I do find it weird how some of these leverless controllers cost $200-$300 when they're essentially just keyboards but with less switches lol
I have seen a few comments already, but in my community (which has a ton of musicians) they all prefer leverless. They say it feels the most rhythmic and instrument-like. I play piano and agree, there are some parallels.
@@ItslewcarioI tried the pad, but when it comes to street fighter I am so used to a stick. I even bought a Hori fightpad as I could not play it it on a PS4 controller. And yes, the drive rush is hard on stick because you have to really make sure that you are precise with the dashes.
@@zeo5008 same I had the octa for its octagonal gate since I’m a analog user and I just wanted to try stick. I got the octagonal gate and was using it until 2 days ago when I finally modded my stick and decided Square is more suited for charge characters. (I main Guile) so I’m slowly but surely getting better
Good breakdown regarding the main choices! Pad seems really solid for this game (which hurts my heart a little since the other options are so much cooler and more fun imo). Oh, and it's always nice to see the Rooflebox make an appearance!
Unreal been watching this guy for what seems like years and I'm still learning new things I've yet to ever learn b4 now the only thing you can do about that is respect it so much so I had to give it a like its so damn respectable 😂
TLDR: You can use what you want to use. As someone who has used all three of these types of controllers, the one thing I will say is that anything will work. I put off getting a stick and a leverless for years because people made it seem like it would take forever to get the execution down. When I bought a leverless (Victrix FS 12) about a month ago now I went into training mode and immediately did Guile's level 3 first try. On pad I would only be able to get charge supers like 30% of the time. I also have issues sometimes with accidentally pressing the triggers on pad which is not good. That's a me thing, but I know I'm not the only one out there. I have a Hori RAP stick as well. I love it, but I did not like having to use the actual arcade stick even though I grew up in the 90s and have had my fair share of time with arcade cabinets.
Ive been using pads all my life, I recently switched to fight stick and I love it. My inputs are so much cleaner. I will get a snackbox micro soon just to test it out and judge for myself.
I got the hori octa and honestly i love it. I hated the ps5 controllers d pad and how it felt so i got the hori and i have been having a lot less miss inputs. I kinda wanna get an arcade stick soon just cause the look like a lot of fun to use and i am open to any reccomendations to ones i can get.☺️
I have a modified Mayflash F300. I switched out the stick and buttons. My biggest complaint is that because it's so light, it does not stay in place very well. Get one with some decent weight, and you'll be fine.
If you're playing on PC, the 8bitdo stick is really nice and quite affordable compared to most others. It can be used wired or wireless (bluetooth or with the included 2.4g dongle), is easily moddable if you want to swap out parts, has a good amount of heft so it won't slide around on your lap, and it has that old NES style aesthetic (subjective, but I LOVE it). You can reprogram any of the buttons using their app and have several profiles set up on it at once
I'm using a solid mechanical keyboard which allows to press more than 4 buttons at the same time. It works surprisingly well and is not very expensive. I never tried a dedicated leverless controller though.
I love playing on stick, but I still have inconsistencies with canceling DR from crouching normals (looking at you cr mk). I wish it were as easy as double tapping a button
20:55 another devious trick you can do on devices like snackbox is swivel your fingers from back to up. it'd be like rotating your hand from 12:00 to 2:00. It's pretty committal in hand positioning but i find it to be the fastest
Rob under me mentioned it already, but I'll reiterate that sliding a finger across the directional buttons on a leverless controller with your left hand, and using your thumb and a finger to hit Up + P is a shortcut for an SPD motion. It can get a little rough on your wrist if you're going for it a lot every game, but it's very consistent. It completely changed my game with Zangief.
IMO the only reason it hurts is because leverless didn't take the lessons of keyboard ergonomics. They just took the stick out of arcade sticks and shoved buttons in.
Rooflemonger thank you for all of the vids your pumping out. I've been hooked since first finding you when SF6 released. A suggestion though, I think it's time for an actual like 6 second intro intro. I'm trying to go into these hyped!
Pad is definitely the most user friendly, only because of drive impact being on a single button. I played stick but only for Tekken, I dread the thought using one finger to hit both heavies.
@@SomeMonsterz Yea but I never use the 2 buttons on the most right side, it's not practical or comfortable for me to use a pinky or move my entire hand to press it.
at minimum for drive impact, you want to have a button that one of your fingers naturally rests on so that when you see something visually you immediately react by just twitching your finger. On stick I learned this with my pinky but not everyone feels comfortable with that. Pad players already have that going with multiple buttons by default so that's why its a huge advantage for reactions. That's why I always advise new players to start on pad. but i play FGs to relive the arcade glory days so I'm all in on stick until my hands fall off
If you want to be "top" but not professional competitive, go for the cheat box, it's a reality it has shortcut advantages...now it is legal, also you can use modern control + hitbox and be an online king ....
I've just switched over to leverless, and it's amazing. 👍 So much more ergonomic than my DualSense or my Hori FS3. I have to rewire my brain because my left hand is used to manipulating a joystick rather than buttons but the more I practice, the less I have to actively think about it. It's like learning touch typing on a keyboard. Yes, leverless is more expensive, but my Razer Kitsune was just a tiny bit more expensive than upgrading to a Nacon Daija and as I already have a Hori FS3 and not much room to store a large controller, the Kitsune was a no-brainer for the PS5.
10:21 About that disadvantage that arcade sticks and maybe also hitbox controllers have to play SF6 as comfortably as possible, not many talk about how you can make your life easier by remapping the punch buttons from the row of the triangle button and the kicks to starting from row of the circle button. This way you leave the square and X button available for the Drive Impact/Drive Parry macros. I usually remap the square button to use it as the Drive Parry and the X to use it as the Drive impact button, which I usually press with my thumb, much more comfortable. This has a major drawback, especially for the arcade sticks that have been sold all this time on the market, which use the Sega Astro City/Namco Noir button layout, which have practically become obsolete due to how uncomfortable they are for play Street Fighter 6. In this sense, the Vewlix button layout is the best suited to play SF6 comfortably, remapping the buttons without the need to modify the entire arcade stick.
I'm looking forward to when your box goes up for sale. I was thinking of designing a leverless myself, but I don't mind rocking the stick a little longer
I use the Hori Fighting Commander Octa for SF6. I don't like it. I regularly drop combos and jump when I don't intend to. For SFV I used FC4 and didn't have issues. I ordered a leverless controller not too long ago. Looking forward to trying that out.
I use this this controller and really like it. Any dropped combos I have usually feel like an online thing or sloppy inputs. As far as game pad goes I prefer it over the standard ps5. I do hate how the stick has an L3 and there is a separate button for it. I tend get a little rough with the stick during play so the L3 gets pressed naturally which means I can’t rebind a button like grab, parry, or ex to it.
@@bbyjohn11 I've realized I could actually program this controller. After adjusting the d'pad sensitivity, my inputs have been way more precise. No unintended jumps and very few dropped combos. I wish I did this a long time ago. I dislike this controller much less now. 😅 I agree about the L3 on the stick. It would have been great if they didn't make the L3 on two buttons or at least it would have been nice if you were allowed to turn off the L3 on the stick.
As an extremely old head (started in 1997) I still play on stick and reached Diamond 4 so far with Dhalsim. I started on pad and have tried leverless and my local tournaments, however. I think stick gets better and better with game knowledge, because it does take some predictive ability to be the best with the stick due to being a frame or two slower than a leverless method. Also I feel general defensive movement and blocking on a stick is the most natural of all the options. That being said, drive impact can be problematic, though I’m pretty good at reacting to them now compared to launch.
My biggest downside with leverless is switching sides. My ring finger feels super weak and I am at a significant disadvantage if I'm on the wrong side. I don't notice that with stick/pad
It's definitely an issue but for left-ward motions I recommend twisting your wrist to help speed up your ring finger. Ring finger movement plus wrist twisting really helps make up for my slower/weaker ring finger.
If you are going to go Leverless, I would recommend all your Buttons to be Keyboard Switches for your Buttons. I find them more accurate with your Inputs than like using traditional Arcade Buttons for your Directional Buttons. I recommend MX Cherry Speed Silver Switches for all your Buttons. So if your not liking your Leverless as much, that might be the reasons why.
I grew up playing fighting games at home more often than at the arcades. So after all this time, I still stick with Pads, never tried investing into Sticks or Leverless. It was tricky to play a 6-button fighter with this since 2 of 'em need to be in the shoulder buttons, but thankfully my time playing these game this way has prepared me for SF6. Additionally, using the left shoulder buttons as macros, especially for Drive Impact, helps tremendously. ^^
I was always bad on stick at the arcades, pad was the way until i discovered leverless controllers. I love leverless controllers, my inputs are so easy now. No accidently jumping lol
I've been playing SF games for a long time and i'm loving SF6. I been using the ps5 controller but i hate it. The R2 and L2 triggers just feel gross. Been thinking of switching to a hitstick or pad for awhile. Glad you showed the difference between the joystick and the leverless controllers in game esp with Ryu. I'll probably go leverless now.
I have a victrix pro-fs12 , leverless controller. I'll never go back. Used to play stick, went from gold 1 to Plat 2 within 4 days of practice. Leverless goated.
Whoah, thanks for telling me why i couldnt get spds very often with my snackbox. My only tip i found is hit the attack button and up both with my right hand and it helped a bit.
the qcf, back~up method shown in the vid is the most consistent method of getting 360's I can find without sacrificing too much speed. At first though when I started switching to leverless I was very worried as the 360 is something ive been doing for like all my life, and then I wasn't consistent with it anymore and it was discouraging at first.
@rooflemonger, I know this video was 4 months ago but here goes... I have a MadCatz fightng game stick that was for the PS3 for the Street Fighter x Tekken game and a stick-style pade with the six buttons on top and only 2 bummper buttons. Is there a way to make them work with Steam on the PC? Thanx I'd really appreaciate it if you could help me figure this out so I can get SF6.
I've played on all three: first pad, then stick and now leverless. I do like the feel of the arcade stick lever, but hands down my go to is leverless! On pad my thumbs would hurt after a while and my hands would cramp up, while on stick my wrist would get tired. But on leverless I don't feel any fatigue and can play for longer sessions
I use the sticks on my controller for playing... HOWEVER, I jump on the pad when I need to input the DOWN DOWN + P/K for Amnesia. So it has a major advantage for some characters.
What is a good keybind layout? I'm new to FGs but I'm using ASD+Space for movement and UIO JKL with H for Throw, P for Drive, and Left Shift for Parry. I don't know if those are alright. My right hand still gets lost and I feel like I'm not fast enough for a lot of the combos.
I use the Qanba pearl for Street Fighter 6 but I'm selling it to get the Qanba Titan. The Titans extra space between the stick and buttons look comfy and the viewlix layout seems better for the way I play with the stick on my lap.
always been a pad player, but now with SF6, I have a very strong urge to switch to an arcade stick/hitbox... I wanna pick hitbox because of all the shortcuts and stuff, but a part of me wants a traditional fight stick because I always wanted one.
@@kimchinoodle3640 you're making my decision easier 😮💨 can I ask which one you went with? (kinda need one that works on ps5 since its what used in most tournaments)
@@IRahkuBz wow haha same boat again!! Needed one to work for my PS5 and PC. Hori fight stick Alpha is what I got, about the same price as an elite Xbox or Playstation Edge pad. All the buttons are swappable and so is the switch for when the time comes to replace things! Enjoy
There is an assist button feature specifically for that. If you hit that + a button, it will always give you all 3 buttons. Its unmapped by default, but find a button to stick it too and it will make life a lot easier for them.
As an oldman I always will love playing fighting games with a stick. Around SFV it seemed like we were seeing less and less of sticks in majors and more boring PS4 pads. Don't get me wrong, the Dualshock 4 was a fantastic controller for SFV and other fighting games, but I like that arcadey presentation and player expression we get from sticks and hitboxes. I was so happy seeing so many people on Twitter talking about getting their first stick for SF6. I attribute that a lot to the downgrade that is the PS5 controller, even though the Modern control scheme mitigates that.
Sorry to break it to you grandpa but people would much rather use newer conttollers and shave off the time it takes to perform certain things than keep playing on stick because "muh arcade nostalgiuh"
@@ntwrk56I’m a grandpa then cuz I decided to pursue stick after playing pad since I was smol. The satisfaction of feeling the stick snap and inputs gives me dopamine. It’s just a preference tho, I told my self I’d practice stick and controller and be a hybrid player
I saw a poll and actually the second most popular option after controller is keyboard. Idk why I was surprised, it is something that doesn't have to be bought extra, and what you get is pretty much a hitbox. I think movement on a keyboard is just as good as a hitbox, but personally I never found a comfortable attack button layout. Pressing multiple buttons at once was really uncomfortable for me. I tried it because I was thinking of moving from arcade stick to hitbox, and I realized that this was a good equivalent to try out. And since I loved the movement and directional inputs, I made the switch to hitbox
The market for specific keycaps and switches is also much better for keyboards. Its actually pretty hard to get arcade buttons of different types, as they have smaller production runs and inventories. A ton of the highly rated ones on youtube from within the last year are just no longer available.
Many people tout how much easier hitbox/levelless controller are on their body. While I agree that is true in general, I have tennis elbow affecting my left arm/hand. Using my leverless controller aggravates my tendonitis (tennis elbow) while my fightstick does not, so I have to limit my play sessions. Note: I am sticking with leverless controllers moving forward, but I have to pay attention to my body with stretching, massage, and time limitations.
I built a hitbox about 3 weeks ago and honestly the first week was rough thought I wasted 200 to built it because I just couldn't get it but after about 2 weeks I was already where I was with controller and now after 3 weeks I'm so much better then I was with controller execution is so much easier and honestly it's a lot of fun and it's awesome to be some to customize it the way you want it... First week my left hand and fingers were pretty sore after long sessions tho 😂
Rooflemonger, I tried to find any way I could to input a 360 on leverless, but I ended up settling on the slide input, where you just slide a single finger across the direction buttons and hit up+punch with the right hand. It's much more consistent, but I really only need it for SF6. Skullgirls and Strive don't care if I'm sloppy with my 360 inputs.
*EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION* The Hitbox / Leverless controllers, Hitbox is indeed a brand name. None of the controllers shown in the video except the Crossup are Hitbox branded, Snackbox, Furin, Victrix etc, are Leverless Controllers.
Been asked about this a lot since SF6's launch so... well time to make a video! There is no right or wrong answer really, but that said each controller type certainly has strengths and weaknesses so lets talk about it in this video! You should always go for what you personally prefer, but it never hurts to be armed with some knowledge!
hori or razer 6 face button controllers are superior to ps5 fight pad
Yeah, I only use analog sticks on my Dualsense Edge controller. It is way better than the pad when you get used to it. Been playing like that since SFIV.
I figured this wouldn't have my specific issue since I take the health of my hands extremely seriously but I use a custom pad with smart keys and some clawsocks so that I can be feather light and precise with my inputs. and one motion input I'm struggling with more than anything is quarter circle motion into DP motion, and as a Juri main that motion is very important to me. I know my situation is very specific but anything helps!
@@ekeclout3941when you do qcf do you keep your finger on forward? You could do that, or even hold up-forward to avoid some overlap
@@malcovich_games I've figured out it's a timing issue, and I still don't have it down but I'm practicing.
For me personally I have been stubborn, if it wasn't for my issues with my left arm I would have never left Arcade stick honestly. Thankfully we are entering the age of ergonomics in FG controllers and with that in mind the Rooflebox proper (not just the prototype thats in the video, one you can buy if you want) is getting much closer to being a reality so I will update you on that when we get there!
Weirdly I had a different problem - grew up playing on a stick, my good old MAS from the MvC2 days, but broke my hands a few times (boxing) so arthritis made it really hard for me to tap buttons. Had to choose between guitar or FGs, so I chose guitar. Transitioned over to controller, and boy was that a learning curve and a half. And thanks to modern controls I can actually play FGs without getting (as) aggravated at how bad my execution has gotten 🤣
I need the rooflebox
in terms of ergonomics, we need to widen the gap between the left and right sides of controllers to help with shoulder posture
I needs the rooflebox meow!! Great video roofle. Funny enough when i first saw the caption i was hoping you were gonna make the grand announcement release of the rooflebox, but some news is better than no news!
I’ve had the opposite issue. I grew up playing FGs on consoles, so always used pads. But then I would get bad tendinitis in my palm. So like in 2009 - 10 I went to stick, since moving at the arm/wrist was better. But now I get wrist problems when I play too long…😂
Inb4 "the best controller is the one you have/use"
fr... the snackbox is always oos 😢
the best controller is the rooflebox™ on sale soon
The best controller is the friends you made along the way
Just started using my phone via steamlink thanks for the advice
@@harrylane4that would make for a good video or like using joycons or snes controller to play sf6
5:19 as a blanka player i remapped parry to triple kick so i can spam blankas foward hop which is TREMENDOUSLY important to blankas screen traveling. For example, 2 hops will NEGATE JP’s zoning and his little rift thing wont even pop, youll be well past them and in his face. It also goes thru one of his ghosts but not all of them
Yeah I do the same. I’m a Irish blanka player and was fairly new to sf but played many nether realm games high level. I think that alone turns his gameplay up by a mile
I remapped R3 to be KKK and it does wonders whenever I play Blanka or Sim
@@soulwarrior5791 like clicking the r3 button down or does it work w just a regular motion
@@battlericky17 Just click the button, no need to swing it around
@@soulwarrior5791 🤝🤝🤝 ty for that
I will always dig the leverless controllers just due to the fact that I play a lot of piano and its a fun controller to use. I have both the Hitbox and the snackbox micro xl and love them both.
I bought a leverless, only because I play everything on PC, and I'm very used to play on keyboard, so pad felt weird... Having a lot of fun with my choice =]
I’m a pianist as well. I started on stick on 6 release and have been having a blast
started with stick myself, it super fun but i was bad n not getting better with it
i tried keyboard n it felt so much better, i ordered a flatbox same night
now i only use my flatbox, was 70$ cad but it works amazingly n makes game feel alot better. defs recommend if pad/stick isnt vibing for you
I'm not a pianist but I do type an awful lot and am pretty good at it. I do wonder if that translated into learning hitbox easier. Never struggled with the inputs people say are harder on hitbox. Except 720s.
@@G0rgar To me it felt more comfortable, and I really liked it
If your on PC, Keyboard isn't a bad option. Works just like a leverless controller does and you have enough keys to map what ever scheme you want. I personally use the num pad for atttacks and asd keys and space for movement.
I do that too! I have di mapped to + so my pinky is always on it (kind of convenient that it’s such a big button) and the down arrow for parry so my right thumb is always on it
Me too. but my L/M/H is on Del/End/PageDown, DI on rCtrl, Assist on 7, Special on Home, parry on INS
@@ruudyghyou basically have the same setup I have but I play on classic. Right control for DI on thumb is so elite!
@@elzilcho222 I've got parry mapped to + and DI on 0 since my thumb rest on it. So, our schemes are pretty similar. I also have 7 & 9 set up as EX buttons cause I'm weird like that.
Arcade sticks are for old people now?! Wtf? 😂
Got into fighting games when GGST came out after years of not playing. Couldn't get the stick down so I started playing on a Hitbox, but felt it was lacking some the more I used it. Especially when I saw all the new leverless ones coming out, but I was so inspired by the Rooflebox that I had to make my own. Been working with it the last couple days and my hands are thanking me.
How do you make your own? And where do I buy the parts? (Wires,casing, buttons, cords)
@@G-MEISTER6it was fairly easy. Easier than making my own keyboard. There is a ton of videos and information out there.
There's a bit of a "leverless" effect if you use a game pad with back paddles.
For example: Assign a back paddle to DOWN. Now you're using 2 fingers to do quarter/half circle motions(your index on the back paddle, and thumb on the Dpad) for faster reaction time.
And there is althoug fight pad.
holy shit I think you're onto something here.
I use the duelsense edge controller so I might try this
Note: Even without sliding your finger across the d-pad since the dpad buttons are monolithic it can still result in an up/down input. Separating the buttons can help with accuracy and precision but you may still hit up due to user error especially on reaction
I've played all 3 for years except for the snackbox micro, which I've only gotten about 2 weeks ago. The snackbox micro is hands down already the best! My execution consistency is already better than with and pad, not to mention I have virtually no user fatigue (which is apparently an exceptional experience). The only difficulty is getting used to the movement, actually. I'm diamond with Chun Li and almost Plat 5 with juri. So, no master yet, but switching to leverless has not taken me 6 months or whatever to get used to. However, I, fortunately, did not have to limit my play time to 15 min at a time. I've never felt any pain and have played with it for hours at a time since the day I got it. Everyone is different though so keep that in mind.
One more note the drive rush mechanic was the reason I wanted to switch to leverless and I was correct. It's much easier to land those now
The less stress thing was absolutely my biggest motivation for going leverless, too. There is no way I could play SF6 as much as I have been on a pad or a stick. It didn't take me 6 months either, more like 2-4 weeks. The hardest part for me was the jump button, but once I got over the mental hurdle of the jump button being the lowest button everything else was pretty easy to adapt to.
I was about to break into gold when my pad developed stick drift, so I built and wired myself a leverless to replace it.
Dozens of designs, several failed 3d prints, a week of waiting on parts, and lots of hand soldering later and my hard work has gotten me to low silver! Let's goooo 😂
Recently switched to stick from pad because it's much easier on my hand health, and the travel time is actually a much, much larger disadvantage than I realised.
the newest xbox controller, the xbox series X, has such an amazing dpad imo. its got very good tactile responses where u can hear the click and feel it on each direction. And, its like the old sega controlers with grooves in the diagonals.
Facts
I don't even own an Xbox, but I got one of these for my PC, and it quickly became one of all all time favorite controllers.
@@foxstomp4016 yeah same, i have it for my pc. great Dpad for fighting games and great sticks for rocket league.
That's what I use too. Love that D-pad.
I bought one for PC (shmups) prior to getting an Xbox and words cannot describe how much I love it. I'm weird; I love the clicking of the d-pad but moreso I really like that I don't need muscle memory to know if I did a diagonal.
I went from gamepad to keyboard 3 weeks ago, now it's way easier to do motion or even charge inputs. It was easy for me on the left hand side cause I have thousands of hours playing shooters, right hand side took me getting used to but now it's all good.
I'm planning to get a hitbox style latter but for now keyboard is plenty good.
Thanks for mentioning the thumb travel on pad. That was one of my biggest gripes too. Also, I tried to play lily on leverless and ended up just using stick because I kept missing cardinal directions. It's super annoying when you get a jump by mistake. Half circles in GG also required cardinal directions making leverless more of a pain because most characters used half circles. Overall I think stick is the best when it comes to playing all different kinds of fighting games though.
Even in gg you can plink half circles on leverlessy guy
360s are only fucky because if you go too fast itll misread the inputs
Check this out. Started playing on Mouse and Keyboard. Left hand: middle of keyboard, left thumb alt - parry, left thumb spacebar - jump, pointer finger, middle, ring k, j ,h - left right down. pinky on v for drive impact. Right hand on mouse: left click - jab, right click - light kick. Press both mouse buttons to grab. 2 side mouse buttons - medium kick and medium punch. Mouse scroll wheel up - heavy punch, mouse scroll down - sweep. Try it out if your on PC. Scroll wheel is only weird part. Fingers only have to move for scroll wheel heavies and thumb moves from alt and space for parry or jump.
Also you can autohotkey a SOCD cleaner if you want it to act like a hitbox
The difference in price is pretty shocking. Most pads are around $80. But most leverless and sticks start around $200. So that is something to consider.
Everybody sleeping on good ol' keyboards. Got a 20$ Logitech keyboard here which is basically a Hitbox but with infinitely more customization options...
@@caspertrog1046iono hopefully that 20 dollars keyboard has anti ghosting. And also (as a tfh player, we compete on pc) keyboards are banned on most live tournaments to prevent both players wanting to be on keyboard… so that’s one consideration to upgrade to a leverless, particularly a wasd style popularized by mixbox
Most console players starting out are gonna have a pad so the cost is effectively zero, though.
@martingutierrez694I wore out a dualshock4 D-Pad in a week. Now it wasn't busted. You can still play with it on every game. But it's no longer reliable for competition.
@@malcovich_gamesjust have 2 people on one keyboard like the olden days
I actually do use analogue, once you learn it it is an improvement over d pad in some areas but you also sacrifice precision, which means you need to practice more often to stay sharp in your inputs. Advantage is that its better and faster for almost every motion input except the longer ones where you need extra precision.
Disadvantage is dashing takes some practice to get used to and will not be as consistent.
Learned it because it was better in GG strive, too used to it now so I have been adapting it for SF6
Also, tip for playing on pad, don't keep your middle finger on the trigger, only bring it up when needed. Your index can take care of the shoulder and trigger buttons by itself, and you will never need to press both together, as HP-HK is bound to your left shoulder button.
Your index can be kept between both the bumper and trigger and go to one on reaction. If you keep both fingers there you might make a habit of mashing instead of making a concious choice between DI and parry.
Also I recommend parry on left bumper and DI on trigger because DI is always pressed, while parry is tapped when trying to get a perfect parry on a fireball. A bumper simply makes more sense for something you want to sometimes tap instead of press down.
Sliding your index finger across the directional buttons is the most consistent way to do an spd. I mained lily on the snackbox week 1 and almost never missed a 360
I've ordered a Furin leverless (some time before this video came out)... can't wait for it to arrive!
A tip for doing 360s on leverless, you can slide your finger on the directions of the left hand and then do up + P/K with the right hand. Since you are using only 1 finger in the left hand is guaranteed to avoid diagonals
A disadvantage I've found for gamepads is the bumper buttons aren't really geared for fighting games. This is coming from a PS4 controller, but I've found that pressing HK + any other button for stuff like OD can be awkward for timing because you have to press HK AFTER the other kick button. Now this normally isn't an issue for some characters, but if you play characters like Juri where you HAVE to press HK for the OD version of a move, then finding that sweetspot can be finnicky.
However, the advantage is you can map button inputs to L3 and R3. Don't want to press all three punch buttons for Yoga Teleport? Map it to a button. Want an OD button? Go for it. Want to taunt? I don't see why not.
Also, thank you for the tip about using charge characters. Might make my inputs more precise.
For me, the biggset disadvantage is that you only use 1 finger for all directional inputs, so you have to move it. And you have to switch back and forward, like, a lot. It' just impossible to keep the same pace as with leverless (or keyboard) - not to mention the precision.
Great tip for charge characters on the game pad. I've been struggling to get consistent with sumo heatbutts and butt stomps with Honda, I'm gonna try this technique and see if it helps.
I personally use the fightstick. A few month ago I bought a hitbox and I do like it but honestly, I prefer the regular fightstick. Still nice to have tho. Great to have when friends come over and they forget their sticks. I can let them use mine and use the hitbox.
I really like that you put up the pros and cons of each type. i tried all three, and where i really like the movement of my character on a leverless controller, i massivly prefer the button layout on gamepad. im also really happy with the options that SF6 is giving me with controls. at the moment im still using modern, but at some point io wanna swap to classic just because it feels like i have more control over my character.
I was actually inspired by your *Rooflebox* to develop my own custom leverless controller with its own unique button layout. I'll be putting it together next week, so wish me luck! I decided to go leverless because I'm too imprecise with both the pad and the stick for directional inputs (I need that instant Cammy dive kick).
Since I work typing all day long, though, I'm good with buttons that just need pushing. A good ole fashioned keyboard can just as good as a leverless controller (and even more comfortable if you go the ergonomic route) but my GPU's old and so I play on PS5.
It's a shame SF6 doesn't natively support keyboards on it, and that Sony's support for keyboards and wireless peripherals in general is somewhat lacking.
Honestly, as a Gief main, 360s and 720s are SO much easier for me on pad than on stick. The idea of doing them on hitbox confuses the crap out of me
I use the victrix fightpad which I recently got despite the high price. You get 6 face buttons so you can use all the triggers and shoulders for throw, DI, parry, and simulataneuous button assistance macros. Putting parry as r2 is rlly good for me to as an NRS main too gimme my block button. then I put the 4 back paddles as the 4 directions which I haven't fully implemented but I get faster dp interactions. If I played a character that needed tiger knees it would also help with that. Some hitbox shenanigans.
Thanks for the video Rooflemonger. My thoughts as a long time pad player who started on Super Nintendo and Genesis.
1. My biggest issues with the stick were leftward movements, espcially dashing left. My wrist got tired of it and I dropped a lot of things and switched back to pad.
2. I also found the right-most buttons too far off and didn't like hitting both MP/MK together for SF5.
3. Main reason I even tried switching to stick was health, as I hurt myself on the left thumb at one point for several days.
4. Biggest issue I have with Pad is hitting the L1, L2, R1, R2 buttons. I can't use L2 at all as I need my 2nd, 3rd and fourth fingers resting behind the left handle. Also, accidental supers lol.
5. SF6 definitely makes me feel like I can use more buttons, but I hesitate to buy an expensive pro pad, but will likely move to all-button for the health reasons you mentioned.
6. I noticed Razer is planning an all-button this year that will likely be closer to $300 as opposed to Victrix' $400 which has me thinking ...
I was primarily a stick user for 2D and pad user (claw style) for Tekken and 3D. For SF6, I’m actually having an easier time on pad because it’s easier for me to drive rush cancel consistently on pad. Also I find it easier to use the triggers for drive impact (I use the actual command). This is the first time I’m using my thumb to play with the face buttons (lights and mediums )
Awesome content! Feel like you come up with videos that I’m exactly thinking about l. Thank you!
🙏
Didn't expect this video to answer some of my recent issues with doing 360 motions, but thanks a lot for explaining how those work. I'm playing leverless and have indeed just been doing the motion too fast. Just knowing that should help a lot with future consistency on those moves.
I just got a leverless last week and my game has 100% improved. I very rarely get missed inputs now compared to stixk
Which one did you get ?
@@MrCupcakes85 I got a snack box micro xl first and did not like it. So I decided on the Victrix pro
My HP button on my Qanba Crystal recently gave out and I've despaired over the thought of returning to pad... this video has motivated me to jump back in and learn it already. Thanks as always for the killer content roofle ❤
Keep the content rolling my dude!
Top self quality content as always.
Keyboard is my preferred controller atm. I have a TKL so I use the nav keys (home page up page down all that jazz) for punches and kicks as there are 6 buttons. Right control for drive impact, asd space for movement and jump, parry on left shift. It feels super optimal (for me) as you also have more binds for other things like 2 kicks or 3 punches or whatever. It's basically a hitbox with unlimited buttons for you to find the optimal hand placement.
YES! this is my exact keyboard layout as well, with the addition of throw on W just because. it's extremely comfortable and my reaction time and precision is better than any other control method, by far. it can also sit in your lap. I don't feel the want for a leverless box at all. just make sure to get some fast switches that you enjoy
@@kyzak akko speed silvers are the current switches I have and I love them. I have grab on my right thumb on left arrow key but I never really use it because two lights is easy enough, but I like W grab too!
@@kyzak people are sleeping on having parry on left pinky I feel. Doing instant drive rush with one hand feels great
I'm a stick player but my right hand is slower and more often in pain, so I bought a leverless controller and I'm having so much fun. Takes time to fully get used to, but boy is it great to finally be able to dash or Drive Rush properly.
Just curious how would a leverless be any better for right hand pain? It's pretty much the same for your right hand for both stick and leverless right?
@@2Namii Left hand, sorry.
@@IdentityChrist ah np
Damn can’t believe he didn’t mention my favorite and most widely available leverless controller, the keyboard
Keyboard! Or I guess whatever you have that's convenient and you enjoy. I wish I enjoyed standard controller play because that's usually the most convenient and portable between platforms.
Fellow keyboard enjoyer
@@rigelseybert9406 fellow brokegang 🤣I made it to Master rank using kb tho!
I bought a nice arcade stick to try with fighting games, but I can't get over how much quicker a dpad feels to me for inputs. I'm sure it's something I could practice for months and get better with, but the super short travel of my thumb seems so much simpler and easier than using more of a wrist grip movement for a stick. I did get a Hori Octa PS5 controller though which I mostly prefer over a PS5 DualShock however both are definitely usable and good enough for me.
I want that rooflebox man, it looks sweet
If you'd like to build your own and you need the .psd file for the layout or a parts list, I am happy to email them to you to help you get started.
Leverless is very similar to playing on keyboard. In fact some of the leverless controllers actually use actual switches that are found in keyboards and you can even swap out other types of switches in some of them which is nice since keyboard switches can come in many many different flavors but the big 3 are linear, tactile and clicky switches with varying switches for each of those 3. I do find it weird how some of these leverless controllers cost $200-$300 when they're essentially just keyboards but with less switches lol
Do you think the Hitbox (leverless) type gonna be good for Mortal kombat 1?
What about wasd bro? I need that mixbox yesterday.
I built a leverless controller using the AFS stickless layout, and I love it.
I have seen a few comments already, but in my community (which has a ton of musicians) they all prefer leverless. They say it feels the most rhythmic and instrument-like. I play piano and agree, there are some parallels.
Honestly, as a stick player, I have realized that this game might be easier on pad, especially when doing a drive rush.
Yea coming from pad and switching to stick. DR is definitely my biggest flaw. I’m getting better but it’s a learning curve for me
@@ItslewcarioI tried the pad, but when it comes to street fighter I am so used to a stick. I even bought a Hori fightpad as I could not play it it on a PS4 controller. And yes, the drive rush is hard on stick because you have to really make sure that you are precise with the dashes.
@@zeo5008 same I had the octa for its octagonal gate since I’m a analog user and I just wanted to try stick. I got the octagonal gate and was using it until 2 days ago when I finally modded my stick and decided Square is more suited for charge characters. (I main Guile) so I’m slowly but surely getting better
Good breakdown regarding the main choices! Pad seems really solid for this game (which hurts my heart a little since the other options are so much cooler and more fun imo). Oh, and it's always nice to see the Rooflebox make an appearance!
Unreal been watching this guy for what seems like years and I'm still learning new things I've yet to ever learn b4 now the only thing you can do about that is respect it so much so I had to give it a like its so damn respectable 😂
After the demo i got a snackbox micro to test it out. It made drive rush cancels way easier to do and over all i am 100% satisfied with the switch
Comfort + easy DI button is all that matters. I don’t like controllers, but bumpers are really good for this game.
TLDR: You can use what you want to use.
As someone who has used all three of these types of controllers, the one thing I will say is that anything will work. I put off getting a stick and a leverless for years because people made it seem like it would take forever to get the execution down. When I bought a leverless (Victrix FS 12) about a month ago now I went into training mode and immediately did Guile's level 3 first try. On pad I would only be able to get charge supers like 30% of the time. I also have issues sometimes with accidentally pressing the triggers on pad which is not good. That's a me thing, but I know I'm not the only one out there. I have a Hori RAP stick as well. I love it, but I did not like having to use the actual arcade stick even though I grew up in the 90s and have had my fair share of time with arcade cabinets.
Ive been using pads all my life, I recently switched to fight stick and I love it. My inputs are so much cleaner.
I will get a snackbox micro soon just to test it out and judge for myself.
I got the hori octa and honestly i love it. I hated the ps5 controllers d pad and how it felt so i got the hori and i have been having a lot less miss inputs. I kinda wanna get an arcade stick soon just cause the look like a lot of fun to use and i am open to any reccomendations to ones i can get.☺️
I have a modified Mayflash F300. I switched out the stick and buttons. My biggest complaint is that because it's so light, it does not stay in place very well. Get one with some decent weight, and you'll be fine.
Finally modded my F500 after 3 weeks. Getting into stick was the best thing I did
If you're playing on PC, the 8bitdo stick is really nice and quite affordable compared to most others. It can be used wired or wireless (bluetooth or with the included 2.4g dongle), is easily moddable if you want to swap out parts, has a good amount of heft so it won't slide around on your lap, and it has that old NES style aesthetic (subjective, but I LOVE it). You can reprogram any of the buttons using their app and have several profiles set up on it at once
I would 100% get a Mayflash F500 and mod it down the line if you decide you like stick 👌
I just ordered my Hori octa. Still loving it??
I'm using a solid mechanical keyboard which allows to press more than 4 buttons at the same time.
It works surprisingly well and is not very expensive.
I never tried a dedicated leverless controller though.
I love playing on stick, but I still have inconsistencies with canceling DR from crouching normals (looking at you cr mk). I wish it were as easy as double tapping a button
20:55 another devious trick you can do on devices like snackbox is swivel your fingers from back to up. it'd be like rotating your hand from 12:00 to 2:00. It's pretty committal in hand positioning but i find it to be the fastest
Leverless is my absolute favourite. Just moving my character is so much more comfortable and precise on it.
Rob under me mentioned it already, but I'll reiterate that sliding a finger across the directional buttons on a leverless controller with your left hand, and using your thumb and a finger to hit Up + P is a shortcut for an SPD motion. It can get a little rough on your wrist if you're going for it a lot every game, but it's very consistent. It completely changed my game with Zangief.
IMO the only reason it hurts is because leverless didn't take the lessons of keyboard ergonomics. They just took the stick out of arcade sticks and shoved buttons in.
Rooflemonger thank you for all of the vids your pumping out. I've been hooked since first finding you when SF6 released.
A suggestion though, I think it's time for an actual like 6 second intro intro. I'm trying to go into these hyped!
Pad is definitely the most user friendly, only because of drive impact being on a single button. I played stick but only for Tekken, I dread the thought using one finger to hit both heavies.
Most sticks have 8 buttons allowing for one button DI?
Use your thumb and ring finger for DI
I do the same, but Tekken is slower. My super in SF are so faster on pad.
Every lever & leverless arcade stick I've seen also has one button DI/Parry.
@@SomeMonsterz Yea but I never use the 2 buttons on the most right side, it's not practical or comfortable for me to use a pinky or move my entire hand to press it.
at minimum for drive impact, you want to have a button that one of your fingers naturally rests on so that when you see something visually you immediately react by just twitching your finger. On stick I learned this with my pinky but not everyone feels comfortable with that. Pad players already have that going with multiple buttons by default so that's why its a huge advantage for reactions. That's why I always advise new players to start on pad.
but i play FGs to relive the arcade glory days so I'm all in on stick until my hands fall off
If you want to be "top" but not professional competitive, go for the cheat box, it's a reality it has shortcut advantages...now it is legal, also you can use modern control + hitbox and be an online king ....
Thanks for the info bro. ❤
I was a pad player since Ultra, I bought a stick and barely used it then, now I'm using my fight stick for SF6
I've just switched over to leverless, and it's amazing. 👍 So much more ergonomic than my DualSense or my Hori FS3. I have to rewire my brain because my left hand is used to manipulating a joystick rather than buttons but the more I practice, the less I have to actively think about it. It's like learning touch typing on a keyboard. Yes, leverless is more expensive, but my Razer Kitsune was just a tiny bit more expensive than upgrading to a Nacon Daija and as I already have a Hori FS3 and not much room to store a large controller, the Kitsune was a no-brainer for the PS5.
10:21 About that disadvantage that arcade sticks and maybe also hitbox controllers have to play SF6 as comfortably as possible, not many talk about how you can make your life easier by remapping the punch buttons from the row of the triangle button and the kicks to starting from row of the circle button. This way you leave the square and X button available for the Drive Impact/Drive Parry macros. I usually remap the square button to use it as the Drive Parry and the X to use it as the Drive impact button, which I usually press with my thumb, much more comfortable.
This has a major drawback, especially for the arcade sticks that have been sold all this time on the market, which use the Sega Astro City/Namco Noir button layout, which have practically become obsolete due to how uncomfortable they are for play Street Fighter 6. In this sense, the Vewlix button layout is the best suited to play SF6 comfortably, remapping the buttons without the need to modify the entire arcade stick.
I'm looking forward to when your box goes up for sale. I was thinking of designing a leverless myself, but I don't mind rocking the stick a little longer
I use the Hori Fighting Commander Octa for SF6. I don't like it. I regularly drop combos and jump when I don't intend to. For SFV I used FC4 and didn't have issues. I ordered a leverless controller not too long ago. Looking forward to trying that out.
I use this this controller and really like it. Any dropped combos I have usually feel like an online thing or sloppy inputs. As far as game pad goes I prefer it over the standard ps5.
I do hate how the stick has an L3 and there is a separate button for it. I tend get a little rough with the stick during play so the L3 gets pressed naturally which means I can’t rebind a button like grab, parry, or ex to it.
@@bbyjohn11 I've realized I could actually program this controller. After adjusting the d'pad sensitivity, my inputs have been way more precise. No unintended jumps and very few dropped combos. I wish I did this a long time ago.
I dislike this controller much less now. 😅
I agree about the L3 on the stick. It would have been great if they didn't make the L3 on two buttons or at least it would have been nice if you were allowed to turn off the L3 on the stick.
@@iPlayGameNoTalk Ah that's cool, didn't know you could program it. If you don't mind me asking, what are your dpad settings set to? Thx!
I got so excited for sf6 when it came out I went out and bought all forms of controller. Ended up back on the ps4 controller
As an extremely old head (started in 1997) I still play on stick and reached Diamond 4 so far with Dhalsim. I started on pad and have tried leverless and my local tournaments, however.
I think stick gets better and better with game knowledge, because it does take some predictive ability to be the best with the stick due to being a frame or two slower than a leverless method. Also I feel general defensive movement and blocking on a stick is the most natural of all the options.
That being said, drive impact can be problematic, though I’m pretty good at reacting to them now compared to launch.
DR is the main reason why I think pad is better, but that mechanic is required
My biggest downside with leverless is switching sides. My ring finger feels super weak and I am at a significant disadvantage if I'm on the wrong side. I don't notice that with stick/pad
It's definitely an issue but for left-ward motions I recommend twisting your wrist to help speed up your ring finger. Ring finger movement plus wrist twisting really helps make up for my slower/weaker ring finger.
My cons - PS5: Sore thumbs, Joystick: inconsistent Drive Rush, Hitbox: learning curve
At start: You better not be about to hit me with a "whatever controller you like"
At end: You bastard!
18:48 the fastest DP on leverless for me is left/right (hold) down (instant release while holding left or right) punch
If you are going to go Leverless, I would recommend all your Buttons to be Keyboard Switches for your Buttons. I find them more accurate with your Inputs than like using traditional Arcade Buttons for your Directional Buttons. I recommend MX Cherry Speed Silver Switches for all your Buttons. So if your not liking your Leverless as much, that might be the reasons why.
I grew up playing fighting games at home more often than at the arcades. So after all this time, I still stick with Pads, never tried investing into Sticks or Leverless. It was tricky to play a 6-button fighter with this since 2 of 'em need to be in the shoulder buttons, but thankfully my time playing these game this way has prepared me for SF6. Additionally, using the left shoulder buttons as macros, especially for Drive Impact, helps tremendously. ^^
I was always bad on stick at the arcades, pad was the way until i discovered leverless controllers. I love leverless controllers, my inputs are so easy now. No accidently jumping lol
I've been playing SF games for a long time and i'm loving SF6. I been using the ps5 controller but i hate it. The R2 and L2 triggers just feel gross. Been thinking of switching to a hitstick or pad for awhile. Glad you showed the difference between the joystick and the leverless controllers in game esp with Ryu. I'll probably go leverless now.
I hate the R2 and L2 buttons as well which is why I'm here. How do you like the leverless? Was it worth it and which one did you get ?
thanks for the tip on how to do a 360 on hitbox! I was struggling with that alot for the reasons you mentioned and it was very inconsistent.
I have a victrix pro-fs12 , leverless controller. I'll never go back. Used to play stick, went from gold 1 to Plat 2 within 4 days of practice. Leverless goated.
Whoah, thanks for telling me why i couldnt get spds very often with my snackbox. My only tip i found is hit the attack button and up both with my right hand and it helped a bit.
the qcf, back~up method shown in the vid is the most consistent method of getting 360's I can find without sacrificing too much speed. At first though when I started switching to leverless I was very worried as the 360 is something ive been doing for like all my life, and then I wasn't consistent with it anymore and it was discouraging at first.
@@Rooflemonger thanks so much for the reply! I ended up just playing manon lol. I kind of like grappler + characters. Like snk grapplers.
@rooflemonger, I know this video was 4 months ago but here goes... I have a MadCatz fightng game stick that was for the PS3 for the Street Fighter x Tekken game and a stick-style pade with the six buttons on top and only 2 bummper buttons. Is there a way to make them work with Steam on the PC? Thanx I'd really appreaciate it if you could help me figure this out so I can get SF6.
I've played on all three: first pad, then stick and now leverless. I do like the feel of the arcade stick lever, but hands down my go to is leverless!
On pad my thumbs would hurt after a while and my hands would cramp up, while on stick my wrist would get tired. But on leverless I don't feel any fatigue and can play for longer sessions
Great video and good analysis
I use the sticks on my controller for playing...
HOWEVER, I jump on the pad when I need to input the DOWN DOWN + P/K for Amnesia.
So it has a major advantage for some characters.
I would've appreciated you talking about keyboards as well. I know they aren't a popular choice, but they're very good for fighting games IMO.
What is a good keybind layout? I'm new to FGs but I'm using ASD+Space for movement and UIO JKL with H for Throw, P for Drive, and Left Shift for Parry. I don't know if those are alright. My right hand still gets lost and I feel like I'm not fast enough for a lot of the combos.
I use the Qanba pearl for Street Fighter 6 but I'm selling it to get the Qanba Titan. The Titans extra space between the stick and buttons look comfy and the viewlix layout seems better for the way I play with the stick on my lap.
always been a pad player, but now with SF6, I have a very strong urge to switch to an arcade stick/hitbox...
I wanna pick hitbox because of all the shortcuts and stuff, but a part of me wants a traditional fight stick because I always wanted one.
Same boat, I went stick route. NO REGRETS
@@kimchinoodle3640 you're making my decision easier 😮💨 can I ask which one you went with? (kinda need one that works on ps5 since its what used in most tournaments)
@@IRahkuBz wow haha same boat again!! Needed one to work for my PS5 and PC. Hori fight stick Alpha is what I got, about the same price as an elite Xbox or Playstation Edge pad. All the buttons are swappable and so is the switch for when the time comes to replace things! Enjoy
What do you recommend for 3 buttons OD special moves? Like Lily and Zangief?
There is an assist button feature specifically for that. If you hit that + a button, it will always give you all 3 buttons. Its unmapped by default, but find a button to stick it too and it will make life a lot easier for them.
I use a pad with 6 face buttons . So I can use the extra bumpers and triggers for parry,Di and EX(OD) macros
As an oldman I always will love playing fighting games with a stick. Around SFV it seemed like we were seeing less and less of sticks in majors and more boring PS4 pads. Don't get me wrong, the Dualshock 4 was a fantastic controller for SFV and other fighting games, but I like that arcadey presentation and player expression we get from sticks and hitboxes.
I was so happy seeing so many people on Twitter talking about getting their first stick for SF6. I attribute that a lot to the downgrade that is the PS5 controller, even though the Modern control scheme mitigates that.
The ps4 controller hurts my fingers
Sorry to break it to you grandpa but people would much rather use newer conttollers and shave off the time it takes to perform certain things than keep playing on stick because "muh arcade nostalgiuh"
@@ntwrk56I’m a grandpa then cuz I decided to pursue stick after playing pad since I was smol. The satisfaction of feeling the stick snap and inputs gives me dopamine. It’s just a preference tho, I told my self I’d practice stick and controller and be a hybrid player
Great video!
For leverless - what if I have pain in my knuckles? And have shorter fingers? Would they still be okay or agitate those issues?
I saw a poll and actually the second most popular option after controller is keyboard. Idk why I was surprised, it is something that doesn't have to be bought extra, and what you get is pretty much a hitbox. I think movement on a keyboard is just as good as a hitbox, but personally I never found a comfortable attack button layout. Pressing multiple buttons at once was really uncomfortable for me. I tried it because I was thinking of moving from arcade stick to hitbox, and I realized that this was a good equivalent to try out. And since I loved the movement and directional inputs, I made the switch to hitbox
The market for specific keycaps and switches is also much better for keyboards. Its actually pretty hard to get arcade buttons of different types, as they have smaller production runs and inventories. A ton of the highly rated ones on youtube from within the last year are just no longer available.
Many people tout how much easier hitbox/levelless controller are on their body. While I agree that is true in general, I have tennis elbow affecting my left arm/hand. Using my leverless controller aggravates my tendonitis (tennis elbow) while my fightstick does not, so I have to limit my play sessions.
Note: I am sticking with leverless controllers moving forward, but I have to pay attention to my body with stretching, massage, and time limitations.
Look for the brand "Fightbox" if you want a leverless controller for a reasonable price! I got mine there and couldn't say enough how glad i am i did.
I use the dance dance revolution mat. I've never won a single game yet.
I built a hitbox about 3 weeks ago and honestly the first week was rough thought I wasted 200 to built it because I just couldn't get it but after about 2 weeks I was already where I was with controller and now after 3 weeks I'm so much better then I was with controller execution is so much easier and honestly it's a lot of fun and it's awesome to be some to customize it the way you want it... First week my left hand and fingers were pretty sore after long sessions tho 😂
Rooflemonger, I tried to find any way I could to input a 360 on leverless, but I ended up settling on the slide input, where you just slide a single finger across the direction buttons and hit up+punch with the right hand. It's much more consistent, but I really only need it for SF6. Skullgirls and Strive don't care if I'm sloppy with my 360 inputs.