Yes, but teaching how to manage time, especially with something like design should be taught somehow. Tutors should, apart from giving design advice and critique, teach and manage students like they are staff in an office for a project.
@@Archimarathon perhaps a studio where all work is "in studio only". No work outside of class time. would certainly accelerate collaboration and problem solving.
I disagree. Studio time is (for my studio) teaching students to see and learn to help and critique each other. It should never be a time for your own work.
@@Archimarathon Of course. I definitely agree that uni is where you learn to unlock your old habits and think critically, so I wouldn't want to take that away. but somewhere there needs to be the lesson of time.
My biggest regret from my first year of study was spending too much time in the studio. I missed so many opportunities to make friends, to explore other passions and even just enjoy the moment. I definitely learnt the hard way when I burned out before even making it to second year, with no friends and no fun memories of my first year of university. Thankfully I've learned a lot from that experience and in a much better headspace now. Never falling back into that 'all-nighter' culture ever again. On another note, very interesting and informative videos! Side story, in 3rd grade I went on an excursion to a cemetery. We were learning about different types of rocks. It was okay for the most part but there was a funeral happening the same time we were there and that scared some students.
As a bachelor graduate, I did a year out at a global architectural firm and I can say I didn't learn anything on developing my critical thinking. I wasn't given any opportunities, even so they weren't heard. This lead me to doing my masters so that I get to explore and experiment with my design thinking further. I have a friend who's an architect from Iran, she told me work in Iran are vastly different to Australian architecture industry. They would gather and do a series of charrettes in concept stage, everyone would be inclusive to all stages of design to final production. I found this quite interesting
My university (University of Plymouth, UK), attempted to reduce studio hours to combat the notion grind culture built into the studio and was met with backlash from students arguing they couldn't produce to the same standard under the restrictions. As such, the studio is open from 6am to 12am term time. On another note, I noticed that my previous employer often had a unspoken rule that during deadlines, overtime was expected and questioning it felt like my job was on the line. It felt like as it was my first job, I didn't have the power to negotiate extra pay or pay in that regard either.
I went to a uni with 24-hour studio access for undergrad and worked in a big practice following. Long hours and thankless work. It was valuable to do get to a point where you realise that there are no plaudits for staying back late.. becoming one of the office zombies who's greatest enjoyment is the free beer in the office fridge. It burns you out and diminishes any passion or delusion you might have had prior to studying architecture. Focusing on time management and life outside of the office meant that this changed for me through masters and current post-grad employment. It does take some courage to pack up and leave at 5:30 when you're working in an office where long hours are the norm, but doing it is one of the best things you can do for your own mental health. You soon realise no-one will question you, in fact, your co-workers will seem envious of you leaving, and grateful for your time when you are in the office. Thanks for reinforcing a valuable message Andrew & Kevin. Re architects unionising - can you elaborate further on this? Has there been a push for it? I know of The Architecture Lobby in Victoria, but their position is unclear - are they just another mouthpiece calling for a union which never materialises? Also, the idea of it being a Victoria-based union seems to diminish/fragments what could otherwise be a national movement.
Good on you for realising and taking action. In regards to unionising, I am out of touch with these things, maybe Andrew is a better person to answer. When we formed SONA (national architecture student body in Australia), one of the main focus was the idea of an award rate because prior to that, there wasn’t one and students/graduates were paid just about anything.
@@Archimarathon I appreciate the work SONA has done for students, and was even a rep during my time at uni. It's a great organisation but still falls under the broader banner of the AIA. Call me a sceptic, but they seem cautious about advocating for better work conditions and pay. They certainly aren't as proactive as a union would be. Is it through a fear of putting ourselves out of a job that one hasn't been established?
Start with “Why”! Always. Simon Senik has said it beautifully. Clearly. As an intercultural coach and educator one of the places I first visited when I came to live in Melbourne was Melbourne Central Cemetery. A complete eye-opener for the different cultural and linguistic communities of Melbourne. Another stimulating conversation plus location into which we get invited by Kevin and Andrew.
As someone who is just about to embark on architecture studies at RMIT I had not read the article and I really appreciate this video. Thank you both for shedding light and offering alternatives to a exploitive business culture that I no doubt will be exposed to in the future. It has instilled me with confidence to set boundaries, which hopefully will prevent me and other future architectures from being taken advantage of. Thanks heaps!
Back in India, I was slaving for 12+ hours a day, 6 days a week at an office. That shaped my distaste for Architecture in general. However, soon after my undergrad, I was lucky to study in Melbourne's Design school; which involved critical thinking than just produce drawings for the heck of it. I also love that Australian Architecture board has strict rules when it comes to pay and overtime, and when you look at it from the point of view that you've got only 70-80 years to live, I say it's not worth slaving your time for someone else.
Yes I have had Indian students who have told me about the state of the profession and the education back in India. And the saturation of all the fake architects who are really just draftsmen. Not to mention as a result the clients don’t know anything else as the profession is overshadowed by the fakes.
@@Archimarathon I'm not trying to defame my country in any manner, but I feel after graduating from the best Architecture school in India, I never really loved Architecture as much as I do now after studying and living in Melbourne. In terms of clients appreciation for the profession, it is simply non-existent in my country and other professions such as doctors, lawyers, engineers - somehow hold a much more respectable place in the society, hence the different treatment.
@@Archimarathon Indeed, but I've learned to be happy now and care about things that I'm passionate about. I guess I needed to see the ugly in order to appreciate the beauty.
I definitely think that time/stress management is one of the most important skills I have developed during my 5 years degree. Andrew's recent job post on instagram was so encouraging and inviting...the emphasis on 'work smarter and get out of the office by 5' was so great..I have heard way too many horrendous stories of practices expecting people to stay late or else they'd guilt trip you into doing so...A friend of mine used to work at a big firm where if he got up to leave at 6pm (got his stuff done for the day) he'd get weird attention from the others like "you leaving now bro"? kinda thing. I would never forget his remark on working during winter - "I never saw the sun".
My university started its architecture program last year. I'm one of the first 12 students to be a part of the program. We made a rule from the get go that studio projects are due the midnight before the final presentation, so that at least for the final presentation we've been able to sleep, shower, dress nicely, etc. Latest we've worked (at least on campus) is 4 am. Most of us work in industry, and those that don't are married with young children, so only in rare cases are we there past 10 pm.
I'm glad to hear Andrew critiquing the name of a famous firm on cv... it's certainly a dilemma for students (including myself) who feel it's valuable to undertake work experience at one of those international firms, partly because of how people perceive them. I was once told that internships are a good way to see how firms operate differently even if it's unpaid, but yes the fact some of them don't pay students indicates that they don't value students' time and labour. I'm keen to hear how students should decide where to work (if they have choices), how to analyse their current workplace, and how to make decisions on where & when to go next - many firms are not as articulate on the working conditions as Andrew, and it's challenging to know the right time to move on. Obviously 'I apply because I like their design' can be a motive but is it really a sensible move? Thanks for the great videos!
Sure, I think it does give an insight to how certain offices work and as long as you are there to see that as learning, that’s probably ok. Just when you are there for a long time and doing the same stuff without gaining new value then you are definitely being exploited. I think you can learn something from every firm you go to, be it good or bad, but that requires critical thinking, observation and comparison. Not everyone will be able to do that.
11:03 ...Kevin's point is heart pain ...we can easily get caught up in the routine of a busy life ... Get Back to Basics ... Keep the Main Thing the Main Thing .. *DO WHAT YOU ENJOY!* ... (Antidote to Andrew's .."Life is Short Enough ...Joyful Spaces") 11:43 ... Andrews's Lecturer is gold ... can now see where all that "fun & motion" in his work came from ... brilliant! Going to the Cemetery is a great catharsis to reflect on Death ... i only understood this intellectually but i only really understood it, after the recent passing of my father, the following quote became true for me .. "We Understand Death Only After Its Placed It's Hands On Someone We Love" - Anne L. de Stael then i started feeling my own mortality ... this quote is so true .. “We have two lives, and the second begins when we realize we only have one.” ― Confucius "Once you accept your own death, all of a sudden you’re free to live. You no longer care about your reputation. You no longer care except so far as your life can be used tactically to promote a cause you believe in".- Saul Alinsky "Remember that you have only one soul; that you have only one death to die; that you have only one life, which is short and has to be lived by you alone ... If you do this, there will be many things about which you care nothing." - Teresa of Avila
Here is another but I have no idea who said it. You know the saying “you only live once”? Well it’s not quite true. You only die once, but you live everyday. Make the most out of it daily.
Great video! I’ve also read the article on the work, life balance in architecture a while ago. A great read and this is very encouraging. I’d also like to say that we can stay back sometimes out of generosity to get a task done for the day. I’m also thankful where I’m working that this kind of generosity is recognised but I’m also encouraged more and more to just get things done on-time. Early is good. Over is maybe forgivable, but not always great. But ultimately, just by being on-time is more than enough. It’s all that someone can ask for.
Unpaid overtime is almost ingrained in the work culture back in my home country (Malaysia); so much so that it became a stigma to leave on time. The lack of time management is a major issue from the management level. Clients were often given unrealistic deadlines with expectations of their staff will work overtime. When this issue gets brought up, it becomes an inherited excuse like "when I started out, we had to do all-nighters on crunch time too. so should you."
I am from Malaysia and I totally agree with what you have said. The culture of staying back late has become a norm and pretty much everyone from top to bottom is contributing to this culture. Not to mention the culture of working or even producing work to a client for free, just to win a job. I wonder when this culture will stop.
I'm a 5th year who follows the same principal of treating uni like a job and I agree with what Andrew says, but I think there's more to the issue than the all-nighter culture at uni.. The reality for an architecture student is, it's an employers market - it's not like medicine where 98% of graduates become doctors, in architecture only something like 5-10% end up registered (I don't know the stats for every uni). This creates a condition of scarcity which fosters competition for sure, but it also creates conditions ripe for throwing out the work/life balance, exploitation, toxicity, and mental health issues... Being a mature aged student who's had a previous career it's actually been quite confronting casting a shadow on the whole endeavor... At the very least it brings the question of 'why' in to sharp focus.
I think there is also a bit to do with what we said in the last episode on job interview. It’s a mindset and outlook that’s not only applicable to the interview alone. I think giving off an air of responsibility, confidence and professionalism (and of course with the work to back it up), you will do fine, something I find most mature age students tend to do anyway. Remember it is not the piece of paper that people are hiring.
I’m a big fan of Andrew Maynard since that article. I came in architecture from another field and was surprised by work culture based on self-conceit of architects, been sure they are so special and busy that that don’t need normal life
young architecture student here, the idea of treating uni as a 9-5 job is a perspective I've not heard of until today. I feel like I'm right on the cusp of being indoctrinated in the 24/7 studio mentality so this advice has come at the right time. Thank you Andrew and Kevin, I really appreciate the insight you are able to share that I don't seem to be able to find anywhere else.
One thing attracted my attention which probably was a collateral example here (15min29sec). The heritage architect. Would be nice to discuss if heritage architecture elements (and/or constraints) can be combined with modern architecture (i.e. inspiration coming from heritage works).
Kevin is right on. You have to be able to analyze yourself and get realy critical how you are doing things. Otherwise the industry will change and leave you behind.
Thank you guys! This things (sadly) need to be said out loud. I remember reading Andrews article and it made me like his architecture better. I set myself the goal to only work on things that interest me (as you said if it's only for the money, better do other things). And the rule in the studio is that every extra hour is recovered (preferably) or at least paid. Related to the previous video this questions are the most important for me on a job interview. Working ours and how are they recovered or payed. I enjoy walking in cemetery's they are usually beautiful parks in Europe. I remember vividly the Jewish one in Berlin the one on the way to Coney island (crossed by the train) any Japanese one (the concept was so different) and of course the one by Pinos/Miralles at Igualada.
Hey! First comment about cemeteries! Yes. Igualada is pretty special. Catching the train out there and walking through the industrial area made that extra special.
Some of my best memories from university were the all-nighters. The comradery and having such a great studio group made for some fun nights! I also felt most of my best ideas came from those nights, whether it be from learning and bouncing off each other or just simply the vibe and setting we were all in. Personally, it provided a very creative, and competitive platform that just worked for me. I understand that a work/life balance is very important, especially now that I have a young family. However, I believe that there is a time in your life where you must make sacrifices for the sake of you and your families future, you must push the boundaries to get to the next level. Only then is when you can design the lifestyle you want and find the balance we are all trying to find.
Old Jewish Cemetery, Prague. A place of such historic and social importance for that city. Definitely worth a visit, but then so is the cemetery on the hill overlooking Walhalla, Vic.
Great essay and video! Thought you might have visited the monument to James Galloway and the Eight Hour movement, certainly a relevant piece of history regarding the origins of May Day and the work/life balance! If eight hours work/play/sleep were the conditions idealised back in 1856, what would the ideals be today in contemporary society, especially in a post-COVID climate? Flexible hours? More time working from home? Four-day workweek? Four hours a day? Multiple work ventures? As an undergraduate student, I think the expectations placed on students creates an incredibly unhealthy environment and terrible work-life balance, I witness how these expectations become internalised and students perpetuate unhealthy habits. I definitely agree that more emphasis should be placed on time-management and productivity, but ultimately, many of these issues are heavily influenced by economic conditions. The commodification and centralisation of tertiary education means that students are paying increasingly more and receiving arguably less - teaching quality seems to be severely impacted by underpayment, with huge expectations placed on academic staff with relatively minimal contact hours with students.
Issues of work/life balance are also further exacerbated by wealth inequality which equates to time privilege, those who can afford to live in the inner-city have reduced commuting time, those that can afford to eat-out / order food daily don't have to prepare meals, those who don't have the necessity to work have extra time fixed for other activities... These inequalities aren't likely to be solved anytime soon, but should certainly be taken into consideration in regards to planning for minimum time commitment and flexibility...
Thankyou for this valuable insight, I definitely needed to watch this. I’m one unit away from graduating, and currently looking for work in the industry. If I were to be completely honest - I feel absolutely freaked out. It seems like all I hear and read these days about architecture is that we’re overworked, underpaid and unappreciated. Family means more to me than anything, and I’m honestly starting to be completely psyched out of my passion before I even begin. It’s such a shame it has to be this way, and I really hope to regain some positive insight to my passion again in the right place.
@@ecehanbalkc6146 I sure have! People are honestly wrong to instill fear in uni saying "you won't find a job, it's a hard industry". It's never been better than ever. I applied for 15 positions in the last month or two of my bachelor course and immediately heard back and got interviews for 3 places. I practically got 2 offers and took one I really liked before I even had time to consider the third (they weren't going to let me know for a few weeks). It's been an incredible year, fantastic colleagues, great work life balance and mentors. I absolutely love the culture where I work and they even offer overtime (with great pay) if you put your hand up for it. My major advice is to have your folio ready and start looking a couple of months before you finish! Good luck
To add to this, it's just a matter of really taking pride in your folio. I'm not some crazy super genius and got 70-80's but I really have learnt you just have to put yourself out there if you want to find a job, employers really appreciate it. Believe in yourself and as long as you have confidence in your abilities you'll do great!
There are so many things to comment on in this video that I don't know where to start! The culture of all-nighters in architecture is totally messed up, and definitely was a surprise for me when I started at uni where the studios are open 24hours. I tried to raise with the Dean the need to limit hours for the sake of students' wellbeing but it went nowhere (I have proudly never pulled an all-nighter... couldn't see the point). There is a lot of lip service paid to work/life balance in the industry, but unfortunately not implemented especially from those in Director positions... Drives me up the wall at the moment where people where I work (including me) are all on reduced pay but there has not been a formal arrangement for reducing hours - everyone [except a couple of people] just keeps working the same stupid hours they were before and giving away more of their time for free! Can't believe it and is just a demonstration of horrendous time management and exploitative expectations. Great topics raised as always and plenty of food for thought! Walking in cemeteries is nice indeed - Yanaka Cemetery in Tokyo is lovely and was the site for a project I did in second year during an intensive studio there...
I think the problem is deep seated. Like I said, it is important to experience the bad side to realise how ineffective we are thinking and working. But it does also become part of the culture. Perhaps late nights shouldn’t be work but only allowed to have intellectual conversations and heated debates over food, coffee and/or alcohol or something. Lol.
@@Archimarathon Also the point Andrew makes about being strict on work time is super important considering Parkinson's Law about how whatever task you're working on will stretch to the time allowed. And yes, all about late nights staying up debating and having intellectual conversations! Also, it's easy in architecture (and other creative fields) to get caught up in designing or making something when you get into the flow state, but it shouldn't be the norm (especially when you're not billing the client for it...)
I work on blue collar which also has a bad work life balance. General rule of thumb from observing people who work excessive overtime is that there either drug addicts, alcoholics or are terminally arrogantly macho. Assume anyone who works exsessive overtime is an individual of poor character.
Just came across your channel and I love it!! I just wanted to point out that in my first yr at uni it was amazing as I had a group of friends who made all the staying till midnight at uni tolerable (mind you we were always at uni because the work and assignments were just endless!) And now with nearly two years doing uni online feels like I haven’t learnt much at all; kinda of like a Black Mirror episode, and I’m just tired of staring at my pc for all my studio work (I have all these model making materials etc from first yr but can’t use as everything has to be digital).
Supporting people to understand work life balance and strong social and familial connections outside the workplace is crucial for good mental health. Especially in the time of Covid and lockdowns, working from home, etc. If too much of your life is workplace centred it can make you especially vulnerable. Narrowing any viewpoint is rarely good and often limiting. Keep looking up, out and around at the world and connect with nature as often as possible. Try daily. You'll be rewarded with years of great stockphotomoments to come.
i guess doing architecture internship when we are student could be interesting, work on a period of 6 month could allow to start to see the différents type of architecture offices and the atmosphere in the work place, 6 month of a difficult expérience can prepare outselves to be more able to know our expactions and what we want and be less naive when we are about to sign a professional contract and aware of the red flags, speaking for myself i'm still an architecture student with a bit of struggle for timing management, however i made some progress compare to my old year of studies, learn a lot of software shortcuts help too
I had a tutor in 101 say the exact same thing re: all-nighters and happy to report never did. Some late nights on occasion but those were quite rare too.
Thank you for addressing this point because this more prevalent due to the lock-down. Currently more people are working from home and they are being exploited by working -more- after hours yet getting payed less. I understand the economic climate is certainly contributing to this but it seriously needs to be addressed because it is blurring the boundary between home and work life. A lot of the time we end up working overtime we didn't believed that we met expectations. So if it's also possible, can you discuss how to more efficiently manage your work/project, addressing questions like: what's a realistic Project deadline? what's a reasonable fee for a that allows for the required time to successful complete a project? how to manage delays or perhaps contingency to avoid them? I know this is a whole video in itself, but I believe that a lot of the time firms have a 'working late' culture due to poor time/resource management skills and if this is addressed across the industry maybe we can change the culture. And, you know, make Andrew really famous.
Yes, we opened a can of worms and yes, that’s quite a few different videos altogether. I am still trying to think of a way to do my WHAT WHY HOW lecture in UA-cam format. That is the springboard to a lot of the topics we can talk about as it is critical analysis and thinking. You can probably get that we are using that language a lot already in our videos.
@@Archimarathon yes you did open a can of worms but that's because you taped into an important topic. As for your WHAT WHY HOW lecture, I think you can do it in the conversational format (which is very palatable) that has been adopted for your videos and then supplement it by video and images. As you have pointed out that you have are adopting the 'W. W. H' critical system for your video discussions, you can also use this critical system to curate your videos in respective playlists on your channel. Maybe even in the long run you can demonstrate it by criticing works.
Well that lecture was intended for lecture theatres and live audience and delivered over a longer session with 1 person. I have to think about it. But yes the system basically permeates everything that we are doing and talking about.
I wonder what your opinions are on current day conditions. With the isolation being a thing. Behind stuck at home and balancing life with work. Personally I know it made uni 90 percent harder.
I just entered a starchitect office and my expectations went downhill the first couple of days, everyday I have to work 10+ hours, I enjoy some of it, but I had a life before that, and it is making me question myself if this is what my life is going to be after I get my degree. I dont know.
The culture is still the same at uni! Ridiculous hours! But this culture runs through many professions such as law and engineering. I think the educational institutions is where the culture is bred and if we want it to be better it has to change there too.
I think the idea of making mistakes with time management should still be there but yes it shouldn’t become part of the expected culture. Critical analysis and thinking is something I have been trying to teach for years so students learn for themselves what is the most important part to spend the energy and time. As a studio leader I try to think of myself as a project manager. The problem however is when students don’t meet with the work expectation because they haven’t done it, or a lot of the time, they sidetrack and didn’t do what was asked. So it’s catch22
I just watched this after having to work from home in a 2 months long lockdown.. I'm curious about what you guys think of the future of the workspace after having lived through and epidemic, and realizing there might be others in our future.. how this may not only change the workspace format but also our homes.. Thanks!
@@Archimarathon I agree that people forget things quickly, but I find it a bit difficult to compare to the Spanish Flu, it's so different now. The world population, the speed of transportation, ways of travel, and the percentage of the population who gets to travel , they are all very different now.. Also how this will change our work places and homes is diffferent now that we have the internet..
Very interesting, as a current student of Architecture i also had a similar experience with many teachers talking directly with me saying that the 24/7 work doesn't stop at university. It's almost now so embedded into the culture within Uni that it has become a normality and if you were not to conform to such terms that it's shunned upon or repetitively commented "you're not committed to the project" (especially in group work). I do wonder how Universities would change this culture though? Do you think that it is more to the student to stand up and speak? Do you believe that it starts at the teachers? PS. I think you both should make a small video entrance of a Thriller remake to the next video haha PPS. Really thought something was wrong with Andrew from the initial thumbnail of the video lol (i mean i'd assume there a few things wrong with him) jk jk
I don’t think the idea of work should be 24/7 but there definitely should be an awareness from everyday world that everything can be related to architecture (as opposed to architecture is this weird shit you do at Uni and has nothing to do with anything). As I said in another comment reply, the intellectual content and thoughts can and should exist beyond the physical sit down work that you do. As for something wrong with Andrew, I am glad you noticed there are quite a few things wrong with him. Lol
@@Archimarathon To be loyal to yourself , never try to be someone else in order to please others. Design is a subjective field so there's no right or wrong. As long as you're backing yourself and following design principles that you've learned at uni, sky's the limit.
Oh boy I've had this story I wanted to tell so bad ....imagine a renown architectural studio where your space of work is about 2'-6" wide, where your side colleague draws a line so your things can't cross that line, and you've been there 5 years or more, where the senior project manager gets the corner seat since it has about 6" more than your spot, and he's been there for 14 years!!!.....where as a project manager your are not allowed to get into the client's meetings, only the Director meets the clients.....where when the architect, founder of the firm flies from his main headquarters in Miami and visits the office and no one knows he was there, he just went to meet with the director, and he does not visit the office often.....where you need to be there at 8am to 12pm, lunch from 12pm to 3pm and back to the office from 3pm to 7pm....exhausted no time for moonlight work ....or have some of your own work on the side..... Welcome to Arquitectónica Lima-Peru Office, welcome to Bernardo Fort-Brescia empire. Btw I was there a way while ago in a short adventure in Peru, and lasted in that office less than three weeks after the principal found out about my revolutionary advice!!! Lol!...I really could not believe the level of exploitation, regardless of the salary which it was over the local market, still no space for you to grow in experience as an architect. Still feel sad when I remember the people in that office when comparing it with my experience in America and Europe.
Totally agree with the "treat uni like a job" mentality. Time is a constraint to design; just like budget or site constraints.
Yes, but teaching how to manage time, especially with something like design should be taught somehow. Tutors should, apart from giving design advice and critique, teach and manage students like they are staff in an office for a project.
@@Archimarathon perhaps a studio where all work is "in studio only". No work outside of class time. would certainly accelerate collaboration and problem solving.
I disagree. Studio time is (for my studio) teaching students to see and learn to help and critique each other. It should never be a time for your own work.
@@Archimarathon Of course. I definitely agree that uni is where you learn to unlock your old habits and think critically, so I wouldn't want to take that away. but somewhere there needs to be the lesson of time.
My biggest regret from my first year of study was spending too much time in the studio. I missed so many opportunities to make friends, to explore other passions and even just enjoy the moment. I definitely learnt the hard way when I burned out before even making it to second year, with no friends and no fun memories of my first year of university. Thankfully I've learned a lot from that experience and in a much better headspace now. Never falling back into that 'all-nighter' culture ever again. On another note, very interesting and informative videos! Side story, in 3rd grade I went on an excursion to a cemetery. We were learning about different types of rocks. It was okay for the most part but there was a funeral happening the same time we were there and that scared some students.
Great to hear and great cemetery story
As a bachelor graduate, I did a year out at a global architectural firm and I can say I didn't learn anything on developing my critical thinking. I wasn't given any opportunities, even so they weren't heard. This lead me to doing my masters so that I get to explore and experiment with my design thinking further. I have a friend who's an architect from Iran, she told me work in Iran are vastly different to Australian architecture industry. They would gather and do a series of charrettes in concept stage, everyone would be inclusive to all stages of design to final production. I found this quite interesting
I guess depend on the studio/office and how also how they/you are taught rather than country specific.
My university (University of Plymouth, UK), attempted to reduce studio hours to combat the notion grind culture built into the studio and was met with backlash from students arguing they couldn't produce to the same standard under the restrictions. As such, the studio is open from 6am to 12am term time. On another note, I noticed that my previous employer often had a unspoken rule that during deadlines, overtime was expected and questioning it felt like my job was on the line. It felt like as it was my first job, I didn't have the power to negotiate extra pay or pay in that regard either.
Have you read Andrew’s article?
I went to a uni with 24-hour studio access for undergrad and worked in a big practice following. Long hours and thankless work. It was valuable to do get to a point where you realise that there are no plaudits for staying back late.. becoming one of the office zombies who's greatest enjoyment is the free beer in the office fridge. It burns you out and diminishes any passion or delusion you might have had prior to studying architecture.
Focusing on time management and life outside of the office meant that this changed for me through masters and current post-grad employment.
It does take some courage to pack up and leave at 5:30 when you're working in an office where long hours are the norm, but doing it is one of the best things you can do for your own mental health. You soon realise no-one will question you, in fact, your co-workers will seem envious of you leaving, and grateful for your time when you are in the office.
Thanks for reinforcing a valuable message Andrew & Kevin.
Re architects unionising - can you elaborate further on this? Has there been a push for it? I know of The Architecture Lobby in Victoria, but their position is unclear - are they just another mouthpiece calling for a union which never materialises? Also, the idea of it being a Victoria-based union seems to diminish/fragments what could otherwise be a national movement.
Good on you for realising and taking action. In regards to unionising, I am out of touch with these things, maybe Andrew is a better person to answer. When we formed SONA (national architecture student body in Australia), one of the main focus was the idea of an award rate because prior to that, there wasn’t one and students/graduates were paid just about anything.
@@Archimarathon I appreciate the work SONA has done for students, and was even a rep during my time at uni. It's a great organisation but still falls under the broader banner of the AIA. Call me a sceptic, but they seem cautious about advocating for better work conditions and pay. They certainly aren't as proactive as a union would be. Is it through a fear of putting ourselves out of a job that one hasn't been established?
Don’t get me started because it wasn’t meant to be part of AIA.
@@Archimarathon forced merger?
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Start with “Why”! Always. Simon Senik has said it beautifully. Clearly. As an intercultural coach and educator one of the places I first visited when I came to live in Melbourne was Melbourne Central Cemetery. A complete eye-opener for the different cultural and linguistic communities of Melbourne. Another stimulating conversation plus location into which we get invited by Kevin and Andrew.
As someone who is just about to embark on architecture studies at RMIT I had not read the article and I really appreciate this video. Thank you both for shedding light and offering alternatives to a exploitive business culture that I no doubt will be exposed to in the future. It has instilled me with confidence to set boundaries, which hopefully will prevent me and other future architectures from being taken advantage of. Thanks heaps!
Good luck with your studies
Andrew Maynard for Prime Minister!
Lol. Then we would all be in trouble
Back in India, I was slaving for 12+ hours a day, 6 days a week at an office. That shaped my distaste for Architecture in general. However, soon after my undergrad, I was lucky to study in Melbourne's Design school; which involved critical thinking than just produce drawings for the heck of it. I also love that Australian Architecture board has strict rules when it comes to pay and overtime, and when you look at it from the point of view that you've got only 70-80 years to live, I say it's not worth slaving your time for someone else.
Yes I have had Indian students who have told me about the state of the profession and the education back in India. And the saturation of all the fake architects who are really just draftsmen. Not to mention as a result the clients don’t know anything else as the profession is overshadowed by the fakes.
@@Archimarathon I'm not trying to defame my country in any manner, but I feel after graduating from the best Architecture school in India, I never really loved Architecture as much as I do now after studying and living in Melbourne.
In terms of clients appreciation for the profession, it is simply non-existent in my country and other professions such as doctors, lawyers, engineers - somehow hold a much more respectable place in the society, hence the different treatment.
Yes that’s what I heard. It’s a tricky situation.
@@Archimarathon Indeed, but I've learned to be happy now and care about things that I'm passionate about. I guess I needed to see the ugly in order to appreciate the beauty.
Good to hear. Happiness is good.
I definitely think that time/stress management is one of the most important skills I have developed during my 5 years degree. Andrew's recent job post on instagram was so encouraging and inviting...the emphasis on 'work smarter and get out of the office by 5' was so great..I have heard way too many horrendous stories of practices expecting people to stay late or else they'd guilt trip you into doing so...A friend of mine used to work at a big firm where if he got up to leave at 6pm (got his stuff done for the day) he'd get weird attention from the others like "you leaving now bro"? kinda thing. I would never forget his remark on working during winter - "I never saw the sun".
Yeah. Shit’s gotta change
My university started its architecture program last year. I'm one of the first 12 students to be a part of the program. We made a rule from the get go that studio projects are due the midnight before the final presentation, so that at least for the final presentation we've been able to sleep, shower, dress nicely, etc. Latest we've worked (at least on campus) is 4 am. Most of us work in industry, and those that don't are married with young children, so only in rare cases are we there past 10 pm.
Wow 12 students! That must be a great cohort
i discovered ts channel while doing a general search on youtube for job interviews, and this channel is so inspiring and interesting, love it
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I'm glad to hear Andrew critiquing the name of a famous firm on cv... it's certainly a dilemma for students (including myself) who feel it's valuable to undertake work experience at one of those international firms, partly because of how people perceive them. I was once told that internships are a good way to see how firms operate differently even if it's unpaid, but yes the fact some of them don't pay students indicates that they don't value students' time and labour.
I'm keen to hear how students should decide where to work (if they have choices), how to analyse their current workplace, and how to make decisions on where & when to go next - many firms are not as articulate on the working conditions as Andrew, and it's challenging to know the right time to move on. Obviously 'I apply because I like their design' can be a motive but is it really a sensible move? Thanks for the great videos!
Sure, I think it does give an insight to how certain offices work and as long as you are there to see that as learning, that’s probably ok. Just when you are there for a long time and doing the same stuff without gaining new value then you are definitely being exploited. I think you can learn something from every firm you go to, be it good or bad, but that requires critical thinking, observation and comparison. Not everyone will be able to do that.
11:03 ...Kevin's point is heart pain ...we can easily get caught up in the routine of a busy life ...
Get Back to Basics ... Keep the Main Thing the Main Thing .. *DO WHAT YOU ENJOY!* ... (Antidote to Andrew's .."Life is Short Enough ...Joyful Spaces")
11:43 ... Andrews's Lecturer is gold ... can now see where all that "fun & motion" in his work came from ... brilliant!
Going to the Cemetery is a great catharsis to reflect on Death ... i only understood this intellectually
but i only really understood it, after the recent passing of my father, the following quote became true for me ..
"We Understand Death Only After Its Placed It's Hands On Someone We Love" - Anne L. de Stael
then i started feeling my own mortality ... this quote is so true ..
“We have two lives, and the second begins when we realize we only have one.” ― Confucius
"Once you accept your own death, all of a sudden you’re free to live.
You no longer care about your reputation.
You no longer care except so far as your life can be used tactically to promote a cause you believe in".- Saul Alinsky
"Remember that you have only one soul; that you have only one death to die; that you have only one life,
which is short and has to be lived by you alone ...
If you do this, there will be many things about which you care nothing." - Teresa of Avila
Here is another but I have no idea who said it. You know the saying “you only live once”? Well it’s not quite true. You only die once, but you live everyday. Make the most out of it daily.
Great video! I’ve also read the article on the work, life balance in architecture a while ago. A great read and this is very encouraging. I’d also like to say that we can stay back sometimes out of generosity to get a task done for the day. I’m also thankful where I’m working that this kind of generosity is recognised but I’m also encouraged more and more to just get things done on-time. Early is good. Over is maybe forgivable, but not always great. But ultimately, just by being on-time is more than enough. It’s all that someone can ask for.
Thanks for scheduling an episode on Pricing and Negotiation!! Can't wait for that one.
Thanks for watching
Love your insight on time, value and architecture.
Thanks for watching. Please spread the word.
Unpaid overtime is almost ingrained in the work culture back in my home country (Malaysia); so much so that it became a stigma to leave on time.
The lack of time management is a major issue from the management level. Clients were often given unrealistic deadlines with expectations of their staff will work overtime. When this issue gets brought up, it becomes an inherited excuse like "when I started out, we had to do all-nighters on crunch time too. so should you."
Yes, back in the day many other unacceptable practices and believes existed which are now deemed socially unacceptable.
I am from Malaysia and I totally agree with what you have said. The culture of staying back late has become a norm and pretty much everyone from top to bottom is contributing to this culture. Not to mention the culture of working or even producing work to a client for free, just to win a job. I wonder when this culture will stop.
There goes any respect for the profession. Clients need to somehow be educated about the VALUE of architecture and architects’ services.
I'm a 5th year who follows the same principal of treating uni like a job and I agree with what Andrew says, but I think there's more to the issue than the all-nighter culture at uni..
The reality for an architecture student is, it's an employers market - it's not like medicine where 98% of graduates become doctors, in architecture only something like 5-10% end up registered (I don't know the stats for every uni).
This creates a condition of scarcity which fosters competition for sure, but it also creates conditions ripe for throwing out the work/life balance, exploitation, toxicity, and mental health issues... Being a mature aged student who's had a previous career it's actually been quite confronting casting a shadow on the whole endeavor... At the very least it brings the question of 'why' in to sharp focus.
I think there is also a bit to do with what we said in the last episode on job interview. It’s a mindset and outlook that’s not only applicable to the interview alone. I think giving off an air of responsibility, confidence and professionalism (and of course with the work to back it up), you will do fine, something I find most mature age students tend to do anyway. Remember it is not the piece of paper that people are hiring.
I’m a big fan of Andrew Maynard since that article. I came in architecture from another field and was surprised by work culture based on self-conceit of architects, been sure they are so special and busy that that don’t need normal life
young architecture student here, the idea of treating uni as a 9-5 job is a perspective I've not heard of until today. I feel like I'm right on the cusp of being indoctrinated in the 24/7 studio mentality so this advice has come at the right time. Thank you Andrew and Kevin, I really appreciate the insight you are able to share that I don't seem to be able to find anywhere else.
Thanks for watching and good luck. I think the key here is to be aware
One thing attracted my attention which probably was a collateral example here (15min29sec). The heritage architect. Would be nice to discuss if heritage architecture elements (and/or constraints) can be combined with modern architecture (i.e. inspiration coming from heritage works).
Kevin is right on. You have to be able to analyze yourself and get realy critical how you are doing things. Otherwise the industry will change and leave you behind.
Thank you guys! This things (sadly) need to be said out loud. I remember reading Andrews article and it made me like his architecture better. I set myself the goal to only work on things that interest me (as you said if it's only for the money, better do other things). And the rule in the studio is that every extra hour is recovered (preferably) or at least paid. Related to the previous video this questions are the most important for me on a job interview. Working ours and how are they recovered or payed.
I enjoy walking in cemetery's they are usually beautiful parks in Europe. I remember vividly the Jewish one in Berlin the one on the way to Coney island (crossed by the train) any Japanese one (the concept was so different) and of course the one by Pinos/Miralles at Igualada.
Hey! First comment about cemeteries! Yes. Igualada is pretty special. Catching the train out there and walking through the industrial area made that extra special.
Some of my best memories from university were the all-nighters. The comradery and having such a great studio group made for some fun nights! I also felt most of my best ideas came from those nights, whether it be from learning and bouncing off each other or just simply the vibe and setting we were all in. Personally, it provided a very creative, and competitive platform that just worked for me.
I understand that a work/life balance is very important, especially now that I have a young family. However, I believe that there is a time in your life where you must make sacrifices for the sake of you and your families future, you must push the boundaries to get to the next level. Only then is when you can design the lifestyle you want and find the balance we are all trying to find.
Yes definitely! And hence my comments in the video as well as in others’ comments.
Old Jewish Cemetery, Prague. A place of such historic and social importance for that city. Definitely worth a visit, but then so is the cemetery on the hill overlooking Walhalla, Vic.
Great essay and video! Thought you might have visited the monument to James Galloway and the Eight Hour movement, certainly a relevant piece of history regarding the origins of May Day and the work/life balance! If eight hours work/play/sleep were the conditions idealised back in 1856, what would the ideals be today in contemporary society, especially in a post-COVID climate? Flexible hours? More time working from home? Four-day workweek? Four hours a day? Multiple work ventures?
As an undergraduate student, I think the expectations placed on students creates an incredibly unhealthy environment and terrible work-life balance, I witness how these expectations become internalised and students perpetuate unhealthy habits. I definitely agree that more emphasis should be placed on time-management and productivity, but ultimately, many of these issues are heavily influenced by economic conditions. The commodification and centralisation of tertiary education means that students are paying increasingly more and receiving arguably less - teaching quality seems to be severely impacted by underpayment, with huge expectations placed on academic staff with relatively minimal contact hours with students.
Issues of work/life balance are also further exacerbated by wealth inequality which equates to time privilege, those who can afford to live in the inner-city have reduced commuting time, those that can afford to eat-out / order food daily don't have to prepare meals, those who don't have the necessity to work have extra time fixed for other activities... These inequalities aren't likely to be solved anytime soon, but should certainly be taken into consideration in regards to planning for minimum time commitment and flexibility...
Wow. Great response and yes you have hit the nail on its head. There is no easy answer but awareness is a start.
Thankyou for this valuable insight, I definitely needed to watch this. I’m one unit away from graduating, and currently looking for work in the industry. If I were to be completely honest - I feel absolutely freaked out. It seems like all I hear and read these days about architecture is that we’re overworked, underpaid and unappreciated. Family means more to me than anything, and I’m honestly starting to be completely psyched out of my passion before I even begin. It’s such a shame it has to be this way, and I really hope to regain some positive insight to my passion again in the right place.
Have you watched our episode called “Graduated Architecture. Now What?” , and also the one on “Design Job Interviews - Unspoken Mindset” ?
@@Archimarathon I sure have, I even took notes! They were very helpful thankyou!!
I’m one unit away grom graduating now a year after you.. have you in the meantime found a job? What has your experience been?
@@ecehanbalkc6146 I sure have! People are honestly wrong to instill fear in uni saying "you won't find a job, it's a hard industry". It's never been better than ever. I applied for 15 positions in the last month or two of my bachelor course and immediately heard back and got interviews for 3 places. I practically got 2 offers and took one I really liked before I even had time to consider the third (they weren't going to let me know for a few weeks). It's been an incredible year, fantastic colleagues, great work life balance and mentors. I absolutely love the culture where I work and they even offer overtime (with great pay) if you put your hand up for it. My major advice is to have your folio ready and start looking a couple of months before you finish! Good luck
To add to this, it's just a matter of really taking pride in your folio. I'm not some crazy super genius and got 70-80's but I really have learnt you just have to put yourself out there if you want to find a job, employers really appreciate it. Believe in yourself and as long as you have confidence in your abilities you'll do great!
There are so many things to comment on in this video that I don't know where to start! The culture of all-nighters in architecture is totally messed up, and definitely was a surprise for me when I started at uni where the studios are open 24hours. I tried to raise with the Dean the need to limit hours for the sake of students' wellbeing but it went nowhere (I have proudly never pulled an all-nighter... couldn't see the point). There is a lot of lip service paid to work/life balance in the industry, but unfortunately not implemented especially from those in Director positions... Drives me up the wall at the moment where people where I work (including me) are all on reduced pay but there has not been a formal arrangement for reducing hours - everyone [except a couple of people] just keeps working the same stupid hours they were before and giving away more of their time for free! Can't believe it and is just a demonstration of horrendous time management and exploitative expectations.
Great topics raised as always and plenty of food for thought! Walking in cemeteries is nice indeed - Yanaka Cemetery in Tokyo is lovely and was the site for a project I did in second year during an intensive studio there...
I think the problem is deep seated. Like I said, it is important to experience the bad side to realise how ineffective we are thinking and working. But it does also become part of the culture. Perhaps late nights shouldn’t be work but only allowed to have intellectual conversations and heated debates over food, coffee and/or alcohol or something. Lol.
@@Archimarathon Also the point Andrew makes about being strict on work time is super important considering Parkinson's Law about how whatever task you're working on will stretch to the time allowed. And yes, all about late nights staying up debating and having intellectual conversations! Also, it's easy in architecture (and other creative fields) to get caught up in designing or making something when you get into the flow state, but it shouldn't be the norm (especially when you're not billing the client for it...)
Time in lieu
I work on blue collar which also has a bad work life balance. General rule of thumb from observing people who work excessive overtime is that there either drug addicts, alcoholics or are terminally arrogantly macho.
Assume anyone who works exsessive overtime is an individual of poor character.
Thank you!
Welcome
Just came across your channel and I love it!! I just wanted to point out that in my first yr at uni it was amazing as I had a group of friends who made all the staying till midnight at uni tolerable (mind you we were always at uni because the work and assignments were just endless!) And now with nearly two years doing uni online feels like I haven’t learnt much at all; kinda of like a Black Mirror episode, and I’m just tired of staring at my pc for all my studio work (I have all these model making materials etc from first yr but can’t use as everything has to be digital).
How topical. That’s almost what we are going to talk about in the next episode
If you guys like cemeteries and decide to come to visit new York, then I would recommend going to greenwood cemetery, a lot of interesting tombstones.
Supporting people to understand work life balance and strong social and familial connections outside the workplace is crucial for good mental health. Especially in the time of Covid and lockdowns, working from home, etc. If too much of your life is workplace centred it can make you especially vulnerable. Narrowing any viewpoint is rarely good and often limiting. Keep looking up, out and around at the world and connect with nature as often as possible. Try daily. You'll be rewarded with years of great stockphotomoments to come.
Take a walk in your local cemetery as part of COVID-19 lockdown exercise. It’s cathartic as Andrew said.
i guess doing architecture internship when we are student could be interesting, work on a period of 6 month could allow to start to see the différents type of architecture offices and the atmosphere in the work place, 6 month of a difficult expérience can prepare outselves to be more able to know our expactions and what we want and be less naive when we are about to sign a professional contract and aware of the red flags, speaking for myself i'm still an architecture student with a bit of struggle for timing management, however i made some progress compare to my old year of studies, learn a lot of software shortcuts help too
I had a tutor in 101 say the exact same thing re: all-nighters and happy to report never did. Some late nights on occasion but those were quite rare too.
Lucky you. I was the worst offender
A museum is also filled with dead things... But the discussion is right on, architecture school trains architects to be workaholics
Thank you for addressing this point because this more prevalent due to the lock-down.
Currently more people are working from home and they are being exploited by working -more- after hours yet getting payed less. I understand the economic climate is certainly contributing to this but it seriously needs to be addressed because it is blurring the boundary between home and work life.
A lot of the time we end up working overtime we didn't believed that we met expectations. So if it's also possible, can you discuss how to more efficiently manage your work/project, addressing questions like:
what's a realistic Project deadline?
what's a reasonable fee for a that allows for the required time to successful complete a project?
how to manage delays or perhaps contingency to avoid them?
I know this is a whole video in itself, but I believe that a lot of the time firms have a 'working late' culture due to poor time/resource management skills and if this is addressed across the industry maybe we can change the culture.
And, you know, make Andrew really famous.
Yes, we opened a can of worms and yes, that’s quite a few different videos altogether. I am still trying to think of a way to do my WHAT WHY HOW lecture in UA-cam format. That is the springboard to a lot of the topics we can talk about as it is critical analysis and thinking. You can probably get that we are using that language a lot already in our videos.
@@Archimarathon yes you did open a can of worms but that's because you taped into an important topic. As for your WHAT WHY HOW lecture, I think you can do it in the conversational format (which is very palatable) that has been adopted for your videos and then supplement it by video and images.
As you have pointed out that you have are adopting the 'W. W. H' critical system for your video discussions, you can also use this critical system to curate your videos in respective playlists on your channel. Maybe even in the long run you can demonstrate it by criticing works.
Well that lecture was intended for lecture theatres and live audience and delivered over a longer session with 1 person. I have to think about it. But yes the system basically permeates everything that we are doing and talking about.
Great video! Would love a video on pricing and negotiations on wages
I wonder what your opinions are on current day conditions. With the isolation being a thing. Behind stuck at home and balancing life with work. Personally I know it made uni 90 percent harder.
I think EVERYTHING is harder
this is great - thank you.
I just entered a starchitect office and my expectations went downhill the first couple of days, everyday I have to work 10+ hours, I enjoy some of it, but I had a life before that, and it is making me question myself if this is what my life is going to be after I get my degree. I dont know.
Learn what you can and move on before your mental and physical health deteriorates
@@Archimarathon thanks for the advice and the excellent content of the channel.
Thanks. Good luck
The culture is still the same at uni! Ridiculous hours! But this culture runs through many professions such as law and engineering. I think the educational institutions is where the culture is bred and if we want it to be better it has to change there too.
I think the idea of making mistakes with time management should still be there but yes it shouldn’t become part of the expected culture. Critical analysis and thinking is something I have been trying to teach for years so students learn for themselves what is the most important part to spend the energy and time. As a studio leader I try to think of myself as a project manager. The problem however is when students don’t meet with the work expectation because they haven’t done it, or a lot of the time, they sidetrack and didn’t do what was asked. So it’s catch22
I just watched this after having to work from home in a 2 months long lockdown.. I'm curious about what you guys think of the future of the workspace after having lived through and epidemic, and realizing there might be others in our future.. how this may not only change the workspace format but also our homes.. Thanks!
I think there will be changes but also people will forget things pretty quickly judging from the last global pandemic such as the Spanish Flu.
@@Archimarathon I agree that people forget things quickly, but I find it a bit difficult to compare to the Spanish Flu, it's so different now. The world population, the speed of transportation, ways of travel, and the percentage of the population who gets to travel , they are all very different now.. Also how this will change our work places and homes is diffferent now that we have the internet..
BASED AS F*CK!! My colleagues agree - Unionization imminent ;)
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Very interesting, as a current student of Architecture i also had a similar experience with many teachers talking directly with me saying that the 24/7 work doesn't stop at university. It's almost now so embedded into the culture within Uni that it has become a normality and if you were not to conform to such terms that it's shunned upon or repetitively commented "you're not committed to the project" (especially in group work). I do wonder how Universities would change this culture though? Do you think that it is more to the student to stand up and speak? Do you believe that it starts at the teachers?
PS. I think you both should make a small video entrance of a Thriller remake to the next video haha
PPS. Really thought something was wrong with Andrew from the initial thumbnail of the video lol (i mean i'd assume there a few things wrong with him) jk jk
I don’t think the idea of work should be 24/7 but there definitely should be an awareness from everyday world that everything can be related to architecture (as opposed to architecture is this weird shit you do at Uni and has nothing to do with anything). As I said in another comment reply, the intellectual content and thoughts can and should exist beyond the physical sit down work that you do. As for something wrong with Andrew, I am glad you noticed there are quite a few things wrong with him. Lol
I've spent about 5 years in the industry doing so much overtime. It's not worth it. Manage your time, do your task well but leave on time
In order to manage time and save oneself from exploitation, well "the main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
What is your main thing?
@@Archimarathon To be loyal to yourself , never try to be someone else in order to please others. Design is a subjective field so there's no right or wrong. As long as you're backing yourself and following design principles that you've learned at uni, sky's the limit.
Good to hear.
Oh boy I've had this story I wanted to tell so bad ....imagine a renown architectural studio where your space of work is about 2'-6" wide, where your side colleague draws a line so your things can't cross that line, and you've been there 5 years or more, where the senior project manager gets the corner seat since it has about 6" more than your spot, and he's been there for 14 years!!!.....where as a project manager your are not allowed to get into the client's meetings, only the Director meets the clients.....where when the architect, founder of the firm flies from his main headquarters in Miami and visits the office and no one knows he was there, he just went to meet with the director, and he does not visit the office often.....where you need to be there at 8am to 12pm, lunch from 12pm to 3pm and back to the office from 3pm to 7pm....exhausted no time for moonlight work ....or have some of your own work on the side.....
Welcome to Arquitectónica Lima-Peru Office, welcome to Bernardo Fort-Brescia empire. Btw I was there a way while ago in a short adventure in Peru, and lasted in that office less than three weeks after the principal found out about my revolutionary advice!!! Lol!...I really could not believe the level of exploitation, regardless of the salary which it was over the local market, still no space for you to grow in experience as an architect. Still feel sad when I remember the people in that office when comparing it with my experience in America and Europe.
Amazing.
@@Archimarathon indeed
Architecture is the professionals sweatshop. When you speak up you’re not considered a “good fit” for the firm. Horrible