America in War Thunder has a glaring issue and for some reason it has not been fixed over many years. The question is why doesn't Gaijin do something about the SPAA issues?
If I had to guess, I'd say that USSR getting 45mm APHE for their CAS and the continued suppression of American SPAA proliferation has been an attempt to balance the absolutely dominant USA CAS thru out their tree. Bomb nerfs also fall into this category. Generally smaller bombs see less reduction in damage, but heavier bombs, often carried by USA fighters and attackers, have seen many reductions in their effectiveness. It's to the point that 100kg bombs are about as reliable as 500 or 1000lb'ers. Still, that's how game balance works.
The US really didn't develop a lot of spaa-like vehicles that fit the mid tier gap beneath radar. A lot of non-radar designs are WWII era and would likely end up at or around 4.0 BR, adding flavor but not really solving the issue. They may be able to add some prototypes that lack their radars, similar to how they've added the new ZSU. I've thought of Vietnam-Era armored cars and gun trucks with M134 miniguns, but assume they aren't guaranteed to have the stoping power to make it much more useful than the M16 in practice. Perhaps if there is a Humvee with a GECAL 50/GAU 19, that may be able to sit around 5.0; but I personally am not a fan of seeing such modern-looking vehicles amongst WWII/Korea lineups. It's a shame that the quad-mounted M134's were a modern, private venture without a vehicle chassis, that would be conceptually feasible as Vietnam-Era and absolutely awesome to run around with on a truck. Something they could do is buff the average AA capabilities of American vehicles by making the roof mounted guns more consistent. Some barely slew or elevate while others have almost full range of motion on similar, if not the same, mounts. A few degrees of elevation go a long way with those roof guns. I believe (or at least want to believe) that the issue is lack of non-prototype/actually tested vehicles that fill that gap in game. I guess the 6-gun T77 Chaffee would be more comfortable to use at higher BR's for those who hate using the Bofors, but it will still end up staying around the 4.0 BR. The US tech tree is a victim of US war circumstances and military doctrine that rarely necessitated fielding separate, vehicle-based SPAA platforms; instead, development was focused on radar guidance and missiles, and old inventory was reactivated as a stop-gap when air supremacy was uncertain, even then the "Dusters" earned their name by firing at infantry, not aircraft.
@@therealavenger3537 My point is that many of the vehicles that the US developed either predate the M42 Duster in armor, mobility, and firepower, or they were developed for use with radar tracking and/or missile weapons systems. Maybe one or two vehicles can naturally squeeze past the Duster in BR, otherwise they would need to purposely add prototypes of radar SPAA's without their radar. I mentioned the T77, a vehicle like the T10e1 would sit at 4.0 or 4.3 like the Israeli SPAA. The T52 is a maybe but it would be more cumbersome to drive and have less stopping power then the Duster, unless it's 40mm has an insane fire rate. Like I said most vehicles that the US developed for an SPAA purpose will add flavor to the tech tree (not something I'm against), but they will not address the in-game reasons for the large gap in the US tree. The vehicles need to sit comfortably at BR's in which they clearly outclass the Duster's capabilities and/or survivability without reaching the capabilities of the M163 VADS.
@@GavinSchmavin44 i mean, what is there to add, really? i dont think that france has MBTs that can fit in that br bracket and be comparable to leopard 2a4 and others
It makes sense though the US’ doctrine has always been about airpower and air supremacy while the USSR knew they couldn’t match that so they instead made the defensive SPAA doctrine. The US simply doesn’t really have good SPAAs to add. They either nuke enemy planes from long range with something like a Patriot or get it intercepted by fighter jets which are always more advanced than what the enemy can field.
@@kerotomas1 what you say about the US vs Russian doctrine is true, however that did not stop the US from creating and testing potential SPAA throughout its military history. Some of them are really interesting and all of them are unique vehicles that I would enjoy playing and seeing in the US SPAA tree. Edit: Since you mention the Patriot system (presumably for top-tier SPAA), there are alternatives. My favorite is the SLAMRAAM (I would be interested in seeing how they implement this since it technically requires another radar to fire the AMRAAMs), and the runner-up is the M-SHORAD.
@@tpersch3359 Of course, there are many possibilities, that's just the excuse of Gaijin or the players, their moderators who defend him. Did Russia have sci-fi machines, countermeasures? It has a tree full of them, all of them Object and other sci-fi like the SPAA 2S38's ability to destroy MBT tanks and shoot Sabot ammunition. I just simply don't want the Russian ego. The excuse like Pancier is one vehicle, western systems can just as well be connected to the vehicle and used as mobile. Only here we will play with words that mean one vehicle because it suits someone. Interestingly, for example the Crocodile tank can pull a tank with napalm behind it and it's not a problem, yes.
To everybody saying America doesn't get good SPAA because they have good CAS. American CAS and Air superiority only works because of anti-radiation missiles. They would make the poor little pantsir and TOR have to turn its radar off and take a break from Spawn sniping aircraft at 15km to avoid return fire. That's why, to this day, they still have not been added despite being developed in the 60s. Where are the ARMs Gaijin? And I say that as someone who ground out the entire Russian tech tree with a talisman'd pantsir because I enjoy ruining the day of jet and heli pilots.
It would would be cool if they did an anti-cas focused update and called it like "falling skies" ir something. There are a few nations that could use spaa within certain br ranges. The US is a glaring one but others have issues. Many if the gaps have been addressed but I feel it could do more.
I've seen a lot of people say over the years say its because of CAS strength, but that's not a legitimate counter to other planes for many reasons. A lot of players do not have aircraft and ground trees at a comparable level of progress, especially if they are not playing their primary tree. Another problem with CAS as air defense is that a lot of American CAS are BnZ heavy fighters and do not really work in a strictly air defense role. The final major issue is capability gaps between SPAAs and CAS planes, an A-4 is great at uncontested CAS but the second an SPAA or more maneuverable airplane is on the map, its capabilities become far more limited.
the m19 is better than the 163 so really the us doesn't have an another useful aa until the m247. the lavad is good but there is no useful aa until the adats if you even consider it to be useful, in my opinion the 2s6 is on par with the adats. the only useful higher br aa's are the m247 and lavad, the chaperal used to be good but then they took its smokeless missiles so now its trash
@@obsidianjane4413 My russian cas is more successful than my us cas because im forced to go clean wing and shoot down all the cas planes. cas can potentially be "powerful" but anticas is 100X more effective and useful
@@dentist-chan let me put this in idiot words we were talking about the huge hole in USA spaa line your talking about top tier which is yes needs work and people are trying to find suitable spaa to counter enemy jets not the su-27 more likely the SU-25SM3
@@John.S.Patton I bet if someone went to talk with a historian at Fort Sill since it’s the Home of US Air and Missile Defense we could find all sorts of shit
They just need to stop nerfing AA´s they never include or remove or extremely limit the most potent ammo for AA guns. They nerf the radars, you cant even lock on helis when you have clear sight, gaijin says its because no thermal or contrast signature, that's BS, who ever has served knows its all down to calibration to tune in sights and radar to detect targets at desired altitude and distance, that's elementary in service and should not be limiter in game.
@@kchapo_4202 well idk like t95 missing OPTAR? XM803 missing hydraulic suspension and actually good round that it had? mgm-51 having like 280 m/s instead of 320? Whole Mbt-70 family having 1.5 s longer reload? Not proper work of 20 mil on mbt-70 family? Having spaced armour instead of composite? Hstv-l dying once only driver or gunner left alive? Hstvl having inappropriate fuel tank layout? M1 being nerfed to shit after oh no it turns out to be good against shitty tanks like leo 2k and t-64 and now when competition arrived (even that could deal with prime m1) it sucks? Sep v2 not having an ability to uninstall tusk? Du hull for fucks sake? 90 mil on t32/super pershing/m26e1 takes twice as much as 90 mil on literally any other tank (american ones included)? Same rounds of same 90mm guns on pershings being different in size in damage model for no reason? 90 mil t95 takes longer to reload than german 120? Rounds between t95 90mil, mbt-70 152mil, m1 105mil having the same stats despite 5 more or less pen? USA not having a single aa between 4.0-7.7 and 7.7-9.0 like its said in video? Yeah not a single piece in us tt is nerfed everything is just good
Another solid idea to help fill in US tech tree gaps would be adding in a sub tech tree in the form of South Korea. South Korea would add a variety of IFV platforms that could serve in the mid range SPAA as well as give the US access to a new top tier SPAA in the terms of the K-SAM, which is a VT-1 launcher platform. It would also give extra flavor to the US top tier MBT lines in the form of the K1, K1A1, and K2 MBTs. Among other fun vehicles.
I love how anytime it's something wrong going on in the American tree and US mains calls it out it's just "Crying" or "Coping" but if anyone else calls out the Same exact problems it's a very real and glaring issue 😂
Real man, like Ig the impervious nature of leopard2a7's is fine but if the 3bm60 round is very clearly not spalling like it's supposed to it's obviously just the scapegoat of any argument of "Russian Bias"
We ALL know why Gaijin "dislikes" US. But we, especially you TEC simply can't say why. But that's okay. It's a video game. And I still enjoy playing the US
My theory is that Americas mid tier SPAAs will be so good they dont want them in so they make us deal with the single .50 cal since its “sufficient” There are so many they could add. Using the M-16 at 6.7 is the only thing i can actually hit jets with. Ive been begging for an aa to fill the 4.3-7.7 aa gap. I would be happy with a skink even.
An easy and quick fix would be to give the M42 a belt with a proxy round and move it to 5.3-5.7 the belt would be either HE,AP,HE,HE-VT or AP,HE,AP,HE-VT. Give the proxy ~5m radius and call it a day.
Problem is the specific 40mm's the M42 uses are incompatible with any developed 40mm proxy round nor did it ever use any. A second issue is that would boost the M42 to around 7.7/8.0 just like the Chinese ZSU-57-2
the m19 is better than the 163 so really the us doesn't have an another useful aa until the m247. the lavad is good but there is no useful aa until the adats if you even consider it to be useful, in my opinion the 2s6 is on par with the adats. the only useful higher br aa's are the m247 and lavad, the chaperal used to be good but then they took its smokeless missiles so now its trash
@@thegamingzilla6269 it is a game and they can do what ever they want, as they have in the past. historical accuracy is no longer a thing that WT cares about. the WZ305 is where it is because of full belts of proxy, giving the duster a mixed belt would keep it low, 5.7 is where I think it would be good but it would likely go to 6.3. the WZ also still has access to the full APHE belts while the duster is still rather crap at tank killing especially if it goes up
the issue is that their is NO good spaas for rank 4 because everything is either a ww2 AA or a radar gun AA, theres no inbetween except for a few that can be placed in rank 3 and the m114 thats the best choice so far
Japan also has a large spaa gap, but the sub i ii is good enough for higher br games if america had something like that it would be a first step , i really like spaa like the r3, amx 10p, sub i ii if gaijin added a vehicle like that for America with a good 20mm it would be fine
Listen i know people are tired of hearing this but this game has two very obvious biases. USSR gets stuff that are overperforming and all vehicles are one of if not the best one at every step of the way. And US gets their good stuff but they get heavily nerfed in the process, often by intention. You cannot argue that SepV2 not getting literally any upgrades and even being a worse vehicle than both of its predecessors and it should be this way because its a tank from the 80s meanwhile t90a which itself is from 80s gets protection and ammunition that got into service in 2016. Gaijin is a Russian company and Russia at this point stands afloat by pure propaganda and lies. If Abrams got their issues fixed, they would be on par with 2a7 and might be even stronger in certain aspects. Fuck it, just the 50mm ring armor being fixed to it's actual value (250-300mm) and it's era actually working (US ERA has 3 times the volume of Russian ERA yet Russian ERA literally vaporizes the round while American ERA often doesn't even trigger and even if it does, it does jackshit) alongside the supposedly given protection values of DU armor (effectively should be 30-35% better against both KE ans CE according to official documents and tests) would make US a viable nation. I hate myself for maining US and at this point I'm simply here to finish the tree and I am immediately switching to USSR. Dont get me wrong I've played Germany and Sweden on both mid and top tier aswell and you cannot fathom the difference it makes without playing both. US as it is right now is simply just a punching bag and Gaijin is simply laughing in our faces with their "allegedly" thoroughly done "research" because actual public files from the US goverment such as Department of Defense are, if I quote their 1 year old statement, "Speculative and uncertain at best.". Fuck. You.
@@FXIIBeaver sir, to be on line with my previous comments. Please explain why you think this way so that we can have a civil conversation. A debate if I dare say so.
That's the '60s and '70s AFV crew uniform. But why only one? It actually looks worse than all of them being wrong. But when they do update them all, I will finally have a reason to grind out the M42. "US SPAA tree is..." In the Aviation tree. The US has long relied upon air power to maintain air superiority and cover. It just didn't build as many tactical anticraft systems. There are only a few odd experimentals. What they should do is reduce the spawn costs for pure fighters. "The XM700 as an SPAA" But it wasn't. It was a experimental scout. Stop. Don't encourage the Snale to screw things. The 152/5mm self propelled howitzer guns are already the best "SPAA" in the game.
The vehicle for SPAA the US can use in the Stryker Shorad. 30mm cannon, stingers and hellfires. There is a lot of Stryker variants that can be added. Same with the LAV.
@@yomaster12345 that honestly would be pretty fun but it wouldn’t technically beat the M45 quads on the half tracks. They could give it SLAP rounds and call it a day though.
@@yomaster12345 I’d call it more of a 4.7 -5.0 it’s fire rate while good is less then the M16’s guard but close enough. The pen of a SLAP around would be amazing for that BR range, not going through everything but with good aim and positioning able to rip a lot of vehicles apart.
This is my most annoyed thing about war thunder and the american tech tree. America has NEEDED spaa and yes there are some they can add. Essentially in brs of 4.0 to 7.7 . For the past 4 years we have been asking, and they don't do anything. And of course Russia complained about a gap and for the past 2 to 3 years has gotten almost 6 spaas every update olmost. I'm ok with the rest of the tech tree. Just ADD spaa for America. And no high tier the only spaa they added lately was a mediocre missile spaa past 8.0 What about 4.0 all the way to 7.7. And the duster barely counts because it requires alot of skill to effectively use past 5.0
Remember Great Britain from 5.3 to 8.3 is barren because they thought the falcon, chieftain marksman and the SA SPAA should all be 8.3. The falcon would be a great middle ground at 7.7, yet because it gets one single round of APDS in its mod 4 belt it’s “nope they can’t have that”
Wait, did they finally make the M42 higher BR than the M19? I’ve always hated how an infinitely superior vehicle was sat at the same exact BR as its predecessor.
One nerf is so annoying for ADATS is that it lost it's Radar lock, you only have an FoV lock where you have to aim in 1st person to the target and good luck with someone at high altitude that's too far and it doesn't render properly..... And with Russia, getting so many jets with self-guiding ATGMs, good luck fighting them when they're above you, most of the time you get killed before you find them and shoot back. Didn't play M163 for a while, it still had issues so hearing it got nerfed further in range feels like a wound rub by Gaijin's team.
I wonder if it's at all partially because we've had the same AA vehicles for years and years so we have had no choice but to get good at them when playing US so they think it's fine 😭 I sure do love shooting down helicopters with dual 40mm but planes... it doesn't work as well once you're facing jets.
I agree the aa in America sucked so bad when grinding when I was in the 6.0 to 7.0 planes where just killing me because I couldn’t do anything about it with a 4.0 spaa! And the reson for American stuff not being as good as it really is or over powered like some other countries is bias!
Not to mention that the M19A1 and Duster are better TD's then AA, the slow fire rate makes it harder to actually engage planes meaning that in terms of effective AA, the gap is from 2.7-7.7 which is insane
I haven’t grinded out ground trees much as I’m an Air RB main but I have been trying to grind out the US tree lately and I’m workin on rank 3 vehicles now, but is this gap really that big of an issue (genuine question)? I mean I found the M16 GMC pretty effective against planes at those BR’s and just finished spading the M19. I’ve found the M19 to not be too bad outside of the fact that the guns are just hard to aim effectively, at least for me cuz I kinda struggle to get comfortable with most SPAA’s muzzle velocities outside of easier ones to get down like the M16 GMC and the BTR-152 in the Russian tree. When I do hit my targets in the M19 tho, those guns annihilate the target most of the time. Although the AP shells imo haven’t been very good against most tanks, I rarely use the M19 for that purpose anyways and when I do, it’s usually cuz it’s my last option and my team’s getting clapped and spawn trapped
The issue comes when the planes become too armored for the M16 and too fast for the M19 around Rank 4. The .50 cals will not kill fast enough for whatever you were shooting at to circle back or just tank the damage and kill you outright. The bofors hit like a truck but also move like one which becomes a problem when you’re facing late-war props and early jets. The only viable option unless you’ve relentlessly practiced getting consistent hits with the M19/M42 is bringing a fighter to counter air. But more often than not that requires you to get enough SP, locate enemy air, avoid the good aa’s from other nations, and hope that you’re not outnumbered by likely superior dog fighters or planes that will catch you anyway.
America doesnt have as many aa BBC their CAS is fucking strong Even on regular Fighters - they don’t Need it . The fact that some preople think that gaijin hates america in some way is Crazy to me. USA rule air and naval and in ground they are either best or secondbest. Any „Nerfs“ are for balance reasons so that other nations have a chance too. cries about a10c only show how Great the f16 already was at cas. Abrams with the 5sec reload is scary especially now That everybody goes for breech/barrel
@@ozelotsoffunT-jz2rt firstly, US Naval is carried by the Alaska which is now outclassed many times over, secondly not everyone playing US ground has this Op CaS… so yes they do.
Russia litterally has the best CAS at top tier in the game it is crazy how they have a 40km missile on the SU25 at a lower br than the new A-10C while also having twice the range on thier aa aswell. An F-16 has to go at around 15-10km for it to use its missiles wich are easily detectable by the Pantsir who can shhot them down no Problem same as the F-16 at that point. The Abrams is definetly not weak like the Ariete for example but it is falsley modelled as pointed out many times wich is the main problem (turret ring, du armor, Shells, engine sounds, turet layout etc.) They do need that AA aswell since they made AMRAAMS cost as much to spawn as a ground loadout on planes and agian since russia has the best CAS in the SU-25 and MIG-29 and the 20 billion KA-50 and KA-52s
I hate what they did to the duster I was so used to the way they fired and sniping planes with it, and not it has this word interrupted sequential firing mode so if I try to use it the way I want to I'm only using one gun. Sucks
I've noticed it over the years but every other nation as of the moment has an equivalent AA at every BR range they can use. USA has had a hole between 4.0 / 7.7 for YEARS. Why gaijn hasn't added ANY vehicles to fill that gap is a surprise to me.
Is there a reason the ADATS had its ability to cycle and lock targets on the actual radar taken away way way back? I use this feature a lot and its super frustrating to not have it
Italy has one of the best top tier MBTs now and is the only tree that gets you an F16, a Gripen, an ADV, a Mig29, a Av8b+, and helicopter spikes. As an Italy main with like 3000 kills between the tech tree centauros, we're doing alright, we have "wants" not "needs".
@@BugattiONE666 We need something better than the Otomatic, I'll give you that, but you're spot on for France, the gap in ground from 10.0 to 11.7 is absolutely insane.
You know I'm pretty sure the community has suggested some pretty good self-propelled anti aircraft guns for America, but it's whether or not gaijin decides to add such vehicles, but I do find it sometimes a bit strange that they would add more anti aircraft guns to the Russian tech tree but not to America?, so really if that doesn't scream Russian bias I don't know what does, or they just have a secret hatred for pretty much all Nations because I'm pretty sure they got a secret hatred for the German tech tree.
Don’t get me wrong. I would love to see some new American spa , but this would be a bad idea. They’re already annoying enough as is to grind out and all this would do is just add more useless vehicles to the tech tree that you would then have to grind out.
@nozemi9074 think of it like WZ305 but worse in gun handling, mobility, and limited ammo. And I wouldn't be surprised if Gaijin modeled the suspension problem it has ilr.
Its their way of artificially rigging top tier in favor of Russia. Pantsir + Su-25 combo cant be beat. ADATS cant shoot out to the range SU-25 can fire the 40km missiles. US cas cant kill the SU-25 because Pantsir. Pantsir can cover 15km. That leaves about 5km of space between the pantsir and the map barrier that turns you around. US CAS is supposed to operate in this thin margin while dodging Pantsir missiles. They recently even made Air to Air loadouts cost as much as bombs because when the AMRAAM was released US was able to shoot down some SU-25s. Devs didnt like that so they nerfed it right away. The ADATS and Pantsir have the SAME SPAWN COST. Top tier is a rigged carnival game made by bias Russian devs.
I find it weird how the most powerful nation (in regards to military budgets and technology) gets absolutely man handled in majority of games. I also find it weird that Gaijin thinks it's ok to keep adding on top of the already known and cancerous premiums. I just find it weird that a developer of a video game would have a nation like the US to be the red headed step child of War Thunder. But then again, we all truly know why don't we. That's all
Thank you for this excellent video. I am still using the M16 all the way up to the m42. And I have massive kills using the M16 quad. But it is no good against Jets. And it is also no good in defense and as a tank destroyer unlike everything in the Russian and German line. I hope they can address this problem. And I hope it doesn't turn out like the skink. Which we asked for and beg for for years and then it turned out that they completely nerfed it. It's a waste of space. But anyway thank you very much the Gap in the American anti-aircraft Tech Tree Line is ridiculous
bro if u look up m1a2 armor it says 700mm on hull in wikipedia YET GAIJIN PUTS LESS THAN 400MM ARMOR ON THE HULL the mantlet though.. long 88 could pen that shit no spaa's mid tier HORRIBLE heavies compared to russian heavies
To be honest most MBT mantlets are very underarmored as its expected for the gun breech to absorb the hit and also heavily armouring all around the gun barrel would make maintenance a nightmare.
they could put the skink on the US tree.. cause is based on the sherman.. and cause Canada and us are closer than England nations.. gaijin the only thing they do.. is just to nerf America... either no SPAA... either over tier the tanks.. either nerf the tanks.. and the most shocking is that the most American tanks get the 1 br up tier every match... every single match what ever the br.. like they punish the players..
I write this few times check ammo position in tiger I - take 12 ammo and you see where the ammo is stored and taken... somebody tell my how loader can get it?
the m19 is better than the 163 so really the us doesn't have an another useful aa until the m247. the lavad is good but there is no useful aa until the adats if you even consider it to be useful, in my opinion the 2s6 is on par with the adats. the only useful higher br aa's are the m247 and lavad, the chaperal used to be good but then they took its smokeless missiles so now its trash
I think you should make a broader video about "Why Does Gaijin HATE SPAA" in general. They are labeled as "essential" to every lineup. They are far worse than tanks in most respects, yet cost the same across the board to research and spade. Any SPAA that can kill tanks even decently well soon gets obliterated by BR increases. Even though we have volumetric shells and overpressure to rein in their former stupidity, many are still saddled with old nerfed AP belt compositions. All high tier AAs are stuck with insulting shell count limits on APDS/APFSDS rounds, while IFVs with sometimes the exact same cannons get limitless stocks of both. Many are outright missing their best AP/APCR/APDS rounds, some are also missing HE-VT. They are very difficult to learn in RB, in AB their repair bills are ridiculous, and in all modes rewards for plane kills (their main job) are insulting. Last but not least, due to all the above making them unpopular, there are dozens upon dozens missing which could fill numerous gaps in many tech trees.
If they really cared about the US tech tree then we wouldnt have 2 versions of the same lame aircraft. We have two F-80's and two F-104's. Youre telling me that we couldnt get other USAF legends like the F-101, F-102 or F-106?
Forget aa. How about adjusting br back so you can grind rank 3 before br 5. Bs considering most have 3-3.3 vehicles that are the SAME vehicle and br but are rank 3 because of….. reasons.
What about japan and france both have worst and over tier MBT for them lercler doesnt have armor while type 90 and tkxp doesnt have ammunition capable for it tier
And what about the M1A2 SEPV3? Where is that? Clearly top tier USA ground needs help, it’s nearly a copy paste vehicle with some armor differences… it wouldn’t be hard to add. Or the Abrams turret ring bug report that I spent HOURS on making that they STILL haven’t implemented?
If you think the skink or the others solve any of great Britain’s age issues you’re living on another planet there horrible AA with horrendous, reloads low ammo count, and traverse times not to mention the gaps in a couple of their firing arcs. It wasn’t for the spitfires, Great Britain would have nothing going for them. Not to mention the huge gap between the skink the Z 35 the falcon and chieftain marksman. It’s exactly what Great Britain needed three days at the same br.. not to mention the falcon is far inferior to the other two at the br
The T-72 is not better than the M1, 4 km/h reverse gear means you can't get out of a shitty situation, you have 5 degrees of gun depression, a slower reload, worse mobility meaning your opponents will always get to positions before you, and the tank is useless as a result if the armor is not enough, while the M1 can still use its mobility and reload alongside the fact the T-72 has no thermals while the M1 does, and even if you're talking about the top tier T-72 and Abrams, the abrams still holds the advantage in firepower, reload, and mobility along with the gun depression.
They could have made the XM800T an SPAA but they decided to give it DM63 rounds which it never used so that they could make it a light tank at a BR where it's gun is useless. Also American SPAA is pretty trash at top tier too compared to all the Pantsir and ItOs which a lot of nations have access to. The ADATS is only a moderate threat to aircraft within 10km and if they maneuver at all the missile just refuses to hit. The Pantsir and ItO just obliterate everything within 15km
@@nonameloginss people can get a nuke with anything- plus people get nukes with it because it caps points and scouts, not because its gun is actually good
@@Zealot2024 you want a ground amraam/9x launcher? that's gonna be the pantsir situation all over again, especially with how overbearing US cas is right now
why germany spaa line is touched? german ww2 spaas have 37 mm gun and low pen russia have duble pen in lower br.... + israel no have toptier spaa, adats is a good spaa more competitive vs the german toptier spaa... america no get this update new spaa germany no get last 2 update new toptier plane...
My opinion on why the US doesn't need more AA at the time is because every tank has a .50 cal. When you're flying around, especially in props, the sky gets filled with bullets, which can do a surprising amount of damage. So because of that alone, I feel other nations are more of a priority for new AA. Edit: Posted this before I got to the part in the video where you mentioned the same thing.
Russia has the worst new fox 3, the airframes of both the MiG-29 and Su-27 are badly nerfed, the R-77 sucks so badly that it has to be guided by the planes radar or it will be notched so easily its not even a challenge, and its outran by the AIM-120 as well.
America in War Thunder has a glaring issue and for some reason it has not been fixed over many years. The question is why doesn't Gaijin do something about the SPAA issues?
ah yes america has the most issues ofc, i think you forgot about italy
If I had to guess, I'd say that USSR getting 45mm APHE for their CAS and the continued suppression of American SPAA proliferation has been an attempt to balance the absolutely dominant USA CAS thru out their tree. Bomb nerfs also fall into this category. Generally smaller bombs see less reduction in damage, but heavier bombs, often carried by USA fighters and attackers, have seen many reductions in their effectiveness. It's to the point that 100kg bombs are about as reliable as 500 or 1000lb'ers. Still, that's how game balance works.
The US really didn't develop a lot of spaa-like vehicles that fit the mid tier gap beneath radar. A lot of non-radar designs are WWII era and would likely end up at or around 4.0 BR, adding flavor but not really solving the issue. They may be able to add some prototypes that lack their radars, similar to how they've added the new ZSU.
I've thought of Vietnam-Era armored cars and gun trucks with M134 miniguns, but assume they aren't guaranteed to have the stoping power to make it much more useful than the M16 in practice. Perhaps if there is a Humvee with a GECAL 50/GAU 19, that may be able to sit around 5.0; but I personally am not a fan of seeing such modern-looking vehicles amongst WWII/Korea lineups. It's a shame that the quad-mounted M134's were a modern, private venture without a vehicle chassis, that would be conceptually feasible as Vietnam-Era and absolutely awesome to run around with on a truck.
Something they could do is buff the average AA capabilities of American vehicles by making the roof mounted guns more consistent. Some barely slew or elevate while others have almost full range of motion on similar, if not the same, mounts. A few degrees of elevation go a long way with those roof guns.
I believe (or at least want to believe) that the issue is lack of non-prototype/actually tested vehicles that fill that gap in game. I guess the 6-gun T77 Chaffee would be more comfortable to use at higher BR's for those who hate using the Bofors, but it will still end up staying around the 4.0 BR. The US tech tree is a victim of US war circumstances and military doctrine that rarely necessitated fielding separate, vehicle-based SPAA platforms; instead, development was focused on radar guidance and missiles, and old inventory was reactivated as a stop-gap when air supremacy was uncertain, even then the "Dusters" earned their name by firing at infantry, not aircraft.
@@j.bo7 the US developed an insane amount of anti airs that can fit at all BR ranges, gaijin just doesnt add them...
@@therealavenger3537 My point is that many of the vehicles that the US developed either predate the M42 Duster in armor, mobility, and firepower, or they were developed for use with radar tracking and/or missile weapons systems. Maybe one or two vehicles can naturally squeeze past the Duster in BR, otherwise they would need to purposely add prototypes of radar SPAA's without their radar. I mentioned the T77, a vehicle like the T10e1 would sit at 4.0 or 4.3 like the Israeli SPAA. The T52 is a maybe but it would be more cumbersome to drive and have less stopping power then the Duster, unless it's 40mm has an insane fire rate. Like I said most vehicles that the US developed for an SPAA purpose will add flavor to the tech tree (not something I'm against), but they will not address the in-game reasons for the large gap in the US tree. The vehicles need to sit comfortably at BR's in which they clearly outclass the Duster's capabilities and/or survivability without reaching the capabilities of the M163 VADS.
I mean they straight up won’t give the HSTVL its correct round
name almost all nations
France: Am I a joke to you?
XD
dont forget britain
It's crazy that France has nothing between 9.7 and 11.7
@@BigLMediabritains got good lineups later in the game, but you're right
Compare abrams vs leclerc before you write sheet.
@@GavinSchmavin44 i mean, what is there to add, really? i dont think that france has MBTs that can fit in that br bracket and be comparable to leopard 2a4 and others
it is truly wild how big the SPAA gap in the tech tree is but every update Russia gets another ZSU variant that you cannot distinguish from the rest.
It makes sense though the US’ doctrine has always been about airpower and air supremacy while the USSR knew they couldn’t match that so they instead made the defensive SPAA doctrine.
The US simply doesn’t really have good SPAAs to add. They either nuke enemy planes from long range with something like a Patriot or get it intercepted by fighter jets which are always more advanced than what the enemy can field.
@@kerotomas1 what you say about the US vs Russian doctrine is true, however that did not stop the US from creating and testing potential SPAA throughout its military history. Some of them are really interesting and all of them are unique vehicles that I would enjoy playing and seeing in the US SPAA tree.
Edit: Since you mention the Patriot system (presumably for top-tier SPAA), there are alternatives. My favorite is the SLAMRAAM (I would be interested in seeing how they implement this since it technically requires another radar to fire the AMRAAMs), and the runner-up is the M-SHORAD.
@@tpersch3359 Of course, there are many possibilities, that's just the excuse of Gaijin or the players, their moderators who defend him. Did Russia have sci-fi machines, countermeasures? It has a tree full of them, all of them Object and other sci-fi like the SPAA 2S38's ability to destroy MBT tanks and shoot Sabot ammunition. I just simply don't want the Russian ego. The excuse like Pancier is one vehicle, western systems can just as well be connected to the vehicle and used as mobile. Only here we will play with words that mean one vehicle because it suits someone. Interestingly, for example the Crocodile tank can pull a tank with napalm behind it and it's not a problem, yes.
I can name at least 20 SPAA that america can get, yet gaijin wont add them....
Can you name a few of these? I cannot think of or find any even prototypes, and I see this as the issue
Ok name them. /crickets
@@obsidianjane4413 T52, T100, M2 with the thunderbolt turret, T249 Vigilante, M19 T22, MIM 46 Mauler just to name a few
@@mgmoneymgmoney1003 T10E1 GMC, T69 GMC, T85E1 MGMC, T77 MGMC, T52 MGMC, T100 MGMC and XM246.
@@awacsrazgriz967 That isn't 20. Most of these are mockups or paper tanks.
To everybody saying America doesn't get good SPAA because they have good CAS. American CAS and Air superiority only works because of anti-radiation missiles. They would make the poor little pantsir and TOR have to turn its radar off and take a break from Spawn sniping aircraft at 15km to avoid return fire. That's why, to this day, they still have not been added despite being developed in the 60s. Where are the ARMs Gaijin? And I say that as someone who ground out the entire Russian tech tree with a talisman'd pantsir because I enjoy ruining the day of jet and heli pilots.
Yeah the US has always been about Air Power first while the USSR mainly focused on SPAAs to try to counter it.
Just putting it out there but i think the US ARMs will be shit and the russians will be the best ever built
Whoa whoa whoa. You want SPAA players to be required to use their brain?
It would would be cool if they did an anti-cas focused update and called it like "falling skies" ir something. There are a few nations that could use spaa within certain br ranges. The US is a glaring one but others have issues. Many if the gaps have been addressed but I feel it could do more.
the funny thing is that ussr has gotten 1 SPAA per update for the last 1.5 - 2 years and still nothing for the US
I've seen a lot of people say over the years say its because of CAS strength, but that's not a legitimate counter to other planes for many reasons. A lot of players do not have aircraft and ground trees at a comparable level of progress, especially if they are not playing their primary tree. Another problem with CAS as air defense is that a lot of American CAS are BnZ heavy fighters and do not really work in a strictly air defense role. The final major issue is capability gaps between SPAAs and CAS planes, an A-4 is great at uncontested CAS but the second an SPAA or more maneuverable airplane is on the map, its capabilities become far more limited.
To be fair the average 10 cas planes flying around surely could counter the 2-3 enemy cas. But the issue is probably more skill and iq related.
In GRB it doesn't matter, most players don't know how to dogfight if they don't have a target pointed out to them.
@penzorphallos3199 even in a scenario with a lot of CAS most nations have way better SPAAs and low altitude fighters
the m19 is better than the 163 so really the us doesn't have an another useful aa until the m247.
the lavad is good but there is no useful aa until the adats if you even consider it to be useful, in my opinion the 2s6 is on par with the adats.
the only useful higher br aa's are the m247 and lavad, the chaperal used to be good but then they took its smokeless missiles so now its trash
@@obsidianjane4413 My russian cas is more successful than my us cas because im forced to go clean wing and shoot down all the cas planes. cas can potentially be "powerful" but anticas is 100X more effective and useful
I have a feeling they believe the US doesn't need SPAAs due to how powerful US CAS is.
I honestly agree with you because by that time their wasn't really a air threat
Ah yes, and su27 is weak and pantsir is barely useable right?
@@dentist-chanSU-27 is pretty weak.
Not helpful because amraam spawn costs were severely increased
Also dodging pantsirs and dogfighting planes together is very difficult
@@dentist-chan let me put this in idiot words we were talking about the huge hole in USA spaa line your talking about top tier which is yes needs work and people are trying to find suitable spaa to counter enemy jets not the su-27 more likely the SU-25SM3
crazy how gaijin adds a zsu23 with no radar but refuse to add the m163 with no radar.
I'd rather not have to deal with the M61 Vulcan on any more vehicles. Such a bad performing gun in the game compared to everything else.
the 163 has radar? didnt notice...
There's a vehicle called xm246 that had 35mm guns, it competed with xm247(sergeant york). Found a m48A3 with a GAU-8/A Avenger.
well the gau 8 one i belive is a paper tank the xm 701 may be a better alternative
@@Mountainlake1 well there is pictures of it, the internet says it was built and it also says it was built on a m48A5 chassis
@@John.S.Patton I bet if someone went to talk with a historian at Fort Sill since it’s the Home of US Air and Missile Defense we could find all sorts of shit
America is the only tree to have Fox 3 at 12.3 and 12.7
so yes, gaijin HATES the US tree
They just need to stop nerfing AA´s they never include or remove or extremely limit the most potent ammo for AA guns. They nerf the radars, you cant even lock on helis when you have clear sight, gaijin says its because no thermal or contrast signature, that's BS, who ever has served knows its all down to calibration to tune in sights and radar to detect targets at desired altitude and distance, that's elementary in service and should not be limiter in game.
I still remember the good old days when the two Bofors AA had the VT Fuzes. I think that broke something over in Gaijin
Go look at us abrams line where pretty much every tank is nerfed to shit lol
How is it nerfed? Maybe not having its newest round but blame the engineers for the shit design of everything but the turret
@@kchapo_4202 well idk like t95 missing OPTAR? XM803 missing hydraulic suspension and actually good round that it had? mgm-51 having like 280 m/s instead of 320? Whole Mbt-70 family having 1.5 s longer reload? Not proper work of 20 mil on mbt-70 family? Having spaced armour instead of composite? Hstv-l dying once only driver or gunner left alive? Hstvl having inappropriate fuel tank layout? M1 being nerfed to shit after oh no it turns out to be good against shitty tanks like leo 2k and t-64 and now when competition arrived (even that could deal with prime m1) it sucks? Sep v2 not having an ability to uninstall tusk? Du hull for fucks sake? 90 mil on t32/super pershing/m26e1 takes twice as much as 90 mil on literally any other tank (american ones included)? Same rounds of same 90mm guns on pershings being different in size in damage model for no reason? 90 mil t95 takes longer to reload than german 120? Rounds between t95 90mil, mbt-70 152mil, m1 105mil having the same stats despite 5 more or less pen? USA not having a single aa between 4.0-7.7 and 7.7-9.0 like its said in video? Yeah not a single piece in us tt is nerfed everything is just good
play Britain france or italy if you want to suffer
@@BigLMedia i already suffered enough with usa pre top tier
At least they have tanks in a line, whereas france has tanks in more of an island chain
Another solid idea to help fill in US tech tree gaps would be adding in a sub tech tree in the form of South Korea. South Korea would add a variety of IFV platforms that could serve in the mid range SPAA as well as give the US access to a new top tier SPAA in the terms of the K-SAM, which is a VT-1 launcher platform. It would also give extra flavor to the US top tier MBT lines in the form of the K1, K1A1, and K2 MBTs. Among other fun vehicles.
Top tier USN coastal is also very lacking for some odd reason.
I love how anytime it's something wrong going on in the American tree and US mains calls it out it's just "Crying" or "Coping" but if anyone else calls out the Same exact problems it's a very real and glaring issue 😂
There are us tree issues but compared to france, uk, japan, Italy issues, they are merely potholes vs meteor craters.
@@penzorphallos3199 honestly tho, it's feels like the entrance to a crazy ass rabbit hole of some kinda or a sorta iceberg
ESPECIALLY when talking JPN and Italy
Real man, like Ig the impervious nature of leopard2a7's is fine but if the 3bm60 round is very clearly not spalling like it's supposed to it's obviously just the scapegoat of any argument of "Russian Bias"
So do the russian players.
They complain and get babied as well.
Not just America.
Russia complained about spaa gap and got it filled.
So
We ALL know why Gaijin "dislikes" US. But we, especially you TEC simply can't say why. But that's okay. It's a video game. And I still enjoy playing the US
Prepare your aluminum hats folks, we got a big brain here.
Lol get over yourself ^
Bud this is UA-cam
My theory is that Americas mid tier SPAAs will be so good they dont want them in so they make us deal with the single .50 cal since its “sufficient” There are so many they could add. Using the M-16 at 6.7 is the only thing i can actually hit jets with. Ive been begging for an aa to fill the 4.3-7.7 aa gap. I would be happy with a skink even.
An easy and quick fix would be to give the M42 a belt with a proxy round and move it to 5.3-5.7 the belt would be either HE,AP,HE,HE-VT or AP,HE,AP,HE-VT. Give the proxy ~5m radius and call it a day.
Problem is the specific 40mm's the M42 uses are incompatible with any developed 40mm proxy round nor did it ever use any. A second issue is that would boost the M42 to around 7.7/8.0 just like the Chinese ZSU-57-2
the m19 is better than the 163 so really the us doesn't have an another useful aa until the m247.
the lavad is good but there is no useful aa until the adats if you even consider it to be useful, in my opinion the 2s6 is on par with the adats.
the only useful higher br aa's are the m247 and lavad, the chaperal used to be good but then they took its smokeless missiles so now its trash
@@thegamingzilla6269 it is a game and they can do what ever they want, as they have in the past. historical accuracy is no longer a thing that WT cares about. the WZ305 is where it is because of full belts of proxy, giving the duster a mixed belt would keep it low, 5.7 is where I think it would be good but it would likely go to 6.3. the WZ also still has access to the full APHE belts while the duster is still rather crap at tank killing especially if it goes up
40mm VT fuses at anything below 7.7 sounds absolutely retarded lmao
the issue is that their is NO good spaas for rank 4 because everything is either a ww2 AA or a radar gun AA, theres no inbetween except for a few that can be placed in rank 3 and the m114 thats the best choice so far
Japan also has a large spaa gap, but the sub i ii is good enough for higher br games if america had something like that it would be a first step , i really like spaa like the r3, amx 10p, sub i ii if gaijin added a vehicle like that for America with a good 20mm it would be fine
still waiting for gaijin to give use stealth belts for AA, that alone may help since its pretty easy to dodge a laser of bullets flying at you
Listen i know people are tired of hearing this but this game has two very obvious biases. USSR gets stuff that are overperforming and all vehicles are one of if not the best one at every step of the way. And US gets their good stuff but they get heavily nerfed in the process, often by intention.
You cannot argue that SepV2 not getting literally any upgrades and even being a worse vehicle than both of its predecessors and it should be this way because its a tank from the 80s meanwhile t90a which itself is from 80s gets protection and ammunition that got into service in 2016.
Gaijin is a Russian company and Russia at this point stands afloat by pure propaganda and lies. If Abrams got their issues fixed, they would be on par with 2a7 and might be even stronger in certain aspects. Fuck it, just the 50mm ring armor being fixed to it's actual value (250-300mm) and it's era actually working (US ERA has 3 times the volume of Russian ERA yet Russian ERA literally vaporizes the round while American ERA often doesn't even trigger and even if it does, it does jackshit) alongside the supposedly given protection values of DU armor (effectively should be 30-35% better against both KE ans CE according to official documents and tests) would make US a viable nation. I hate myself for maining US and at this point I'm simply here to finish the tree and I am immediately switching to USSR. Dont get me wrong I've played Germany and Sweden on both mid and top tier aswell and you cannot fathom the difference it makes without playing both. US as it is right now is simply just a punching bag and Gaijin is simply laughing in our faces with their "allegedly" thoroughly done "research" because actual public files from the US goverment such as Department of Defense are, if I quote their 1 year old statement, "Speculative and uncertain at best.". Fuck. You.
@@dentist-chan the amount of copium to replace your skill issue is massive.
@@FXIIBeaver let me guess you main Russia?
this is unvelibeable lmao
@@dentist-chan wrong again.
@@FXIIBeaver sir, to be on line with my previous comments. Please explain why you think this way so that we can have a civil conversation. A debate if I dare say so.
"I mean they could just add a humvee equipped with a 12.7mm and call it a day"
On top of the lack of SPAAs in America, ADATS only has 200 rounds now
>30% winrate
>Nerf the already worthless AA
>Lmao even
They aren't even hiding it at this point
Every American vehicle is also SPAA thanks to the.50 on the roof
That's the '60s and '70s AFV crew uniform. But why only one? It actually looks worse than all of them being wrong. But when they do update them all, I will finally have a reason to grind out the M42.
"US SPAA tree is..."
In the Aviation tree. The US has long relied upon air power to maintain air superiority and cover. It just didn't build as many tactical anticraft systems. There are only a few odd experimentals. What they should do is reduce the spawn costs for pure fighters.
"The XM700 as an SPAA" But it wasn't. It was a experimental scout. Stop. Don't encourage the Snale to screw things. The 152/5mm self propelled howitzer guns are already the best "SPAA" in the game.
The vehicle for SPAA the US can use in the Stryker Shorad. 30mm cannon, stingers and hellfires. There is a lot of Stryker variants that can be added. Same with the LAV.
I think a really fun vehicle to put between 4.0-7.7 would be a humvee with a GAU-19 .50 gatling gun.
@@yomaster12345 that honestly would be pretty fun but it wouldn’t technically beat the M45 quads on the half tracks. They could give it SLAP rounds and call it a day though.
@@vulgar_potato4992 I think it would be a solid 5.3/6.0 in terms of raw output, something on par with the SUB-I-II
@@yomaster12345 I’d call it more of a 4.7 -5.0 it’s fire rate while good is less then the M16’s guard but close enough. The pen of a SLAP around would be amazing for that BR range, not going through everything but with good aim and positioning able to rip a lot of vehicles apart.
This is my most annoyed thing about war thunder and the american tech tree.
America has NEEDED spaa and yes there are some they can add. Essentially in brs of 4.0 to 7.7
. For the past 4 years we have been asking, and they don't do anything.
And of course Russia complained about a gap and for the past 2 to 3 years has gotten almost 6 spaas every update olmost. I'm ok with the rest of the tech tree. Just ADD spaa for America. And no high tier the only spaa they added lately was a mediocre missile spaa past 8.0
What about 4.0 all the way to 7.7. And the duster barely counts because it requires alot of skill to effectively use past 5.0
Remember Great Britain from 5.3 to 8.3 is barren because they thought the falcon, chieftain marksman and the SA SPAA should all be 8.3. The falcon would be a great middle ground at 7.7, yet because it gets one single round of APDS in its mod 4 belt it’s “nope they can’t have that”
This last patch was the one that finally made the ADATS not cost 3 times as much as every other top tier AA.
EC: "Why Does Gaijin HATE America?"
Gaijin: "Gives America experimental rat tank*
thats the only good thing in american top tier ground lol, the tunnelvision is insane
2s38 has entered the chat
Brit mains "Gaijin hates Britain"
"Gaijin: "Gives Britain amazing rat tank*
Yea your logic doesn't really work mate.
@@aflyingcowboy31 Fr. i mean every nation has an op rat tank at some br
Wait, did they finally make the M42 higher BR than the M19? I’ve always hated how an infinitely superior vehicle was sat at the same exact BR as its predecessor.
One nerf is so annoying for ADATS is that it lost it's Radar lock, you only have an FoV lock where you have to aim in 1st person to the target and good luck with someone at high altitude that's too far and it doesn't render properly..... And with Russia, getting so many jets with self-guiding ATGMs, good luck fighting them when they're above you, most of the time you get killed before you find them and shoot back.
Didn't play M163 for a while, it still had issues so hearing it got nerfed further in range feels like a wound rub by Gaijin's team.
I wonder if it's at all partially because we've had the same AA vehicles for years and years so we have had no choice but to get good at them when playing US so they think it's fine 😭 I sure do love shooting down helicopters with dual 40mm but planes... it doesn't work as well once you're facing jets.
I agree the aa in America sucked so bad when grinding when I was in the 6.0 to 7.0 planes where just killing me because I couldn’t do anything about it with a 4.0 spaa! And the reson for American stuff not being as good as it really is or over powered like some other countries is bias!
@@HCLxxSYCO skill issue.
The fact that the m163 is at the same br as the zsu-37-2 is ridiculous.
The U.S Forces can easily use the AVENGER which is a very powerful mobile Anti-Air missile vehicle that uses advanced target locked navigation.
Not to mention that the M19A1 and Duster are better TD's then AA, the slow fire rate makes it harder to actually engage planes meaning that in terms of effective AA, the gap is from 2.7-7.7 which is insane
Statement that SPAA should be low effort vehicles to destroy planes is crazy
I haven’t grinded out ground trees much as I’m an Air RB main but I have been trying to grind out the US tree lately and I’m workin on rank 3 vehicles now, but is this gap really that big of an issue (genuine question)? I mean I found the M16 GMC pretty effective against planes at those BR’s and just finished spading the M19. I’ve found the M19 to not be too bad outside of the fact that the guns are just hard to aim effectively, at least for me cuz I kinda struggle to get comfortable with most SPAA’s muzzle velocities outside of easier ones to get down like the M16 GMC and the BTR-152 in the Russian tree.
When I do hit my targets in the M19 tho, those guns annihilate the target most of the time. Although the AP shells imo haven’t been very good against most tanks, I rarely use the M19 for that purpose anyways and when I do, it’s usually cuz it’s my last option and my team’s getting clapped and spawn trapped
The issue comes when the planes become too armored for the M16 and too fast for the M19 around Rank 4.
The .50 cals will not kill fast enough for whatever you were shooting at to circle back or just tank the damage and kill you outright.
The bofors hit like a truck but also move like one which becomes a problem when you’re facing late-war props and early jets.
The only viable option unless you’ve relentlessly practiced getting consistent hits with the M19/M42 is bringing a fighter to counter air. But more often than not that requires you to get enough SP, locate enemy air, avoid the good aa’s from other nations, and hope that you’re not outnumbered by likely superior dog fighters or planes that will catch you anyway.
America doesnt have as many aa BBC their CAS is fucking strong Even on regular Fighters - they don’t Need it . The fact that some preople think that gaijin hates america in some way is Crazy to me. USA rule air and naval and in ground they are either best or secondbest. Any „Nerfs“ are for balance reasons so that other nations have a chance too. cries about a10c only show how Great the f16 already was at cas. Abrams with the 5sec reload is scary especially now That everybody goes for breech/barrel
@@ozelotsoffunT-jz2rt firstly, US Naval is carried by the Alaska which is now outclassed many times over, secondly not everyone playing US ground has this Op CaS… so yes they do.
Russia litterally has the best CAS at top tier in the game it is crazy how they have a 40km missile on the SU25 at a lower br than the new A-10C while also having twice the range on thier aa aswell. An F-16 has to go at around 15-10km for it to use its missiles wich are easily detectable by the Pantsir who can shhot them down no Problem same as the F-16 at that point. The Abrams is definetly not weak like the Ariete for example but it is falsley modelled as pointed out many times wich is the main problem (turret ring, du armor, Shells, engine sounds, turet layout etc.) They do need that AA aswell since they made AMRAAMS cost as much to spawn as a ground loadout on planes and agian since russia has the best CAS in the SU-25 and MIG-29 and the 20 billion KA-50 and KA-52s
@@miep6463
They now have the best cannon CAS now at Mid to Low tier
The snail wants money. Spaa don't make money.
I hate what they did to the duster
I was so used to the way they fired and sniping planes with it, and not it has this word interrupted sequential firing mode so if I try to use it the way I want to I'm only using one gun. Sucks
Where are my 16 inch guns!
I've noticed it over the years but every other nation as of the moment has an equivalent AA at every BR range they can use.
USA has had a hole between 4.0 / 7.7 for YEARS.
Why gaijn hasn't added ANY vehicles to fill that gap is a surprise to me.
Is there a reason the ADATS had its ability to cycle and lock targets on the actual radar taken away way way back? I use this feature a lot and its super frustrating to not have it
the only nation that comes close to the same levels of SPAA drought is the british but even then they literally just got a new SPAA
Russia probably needs another AA next patch tbh, they only have 17 currently, maybe another ZSU, BTR or the better Pantsir S2.
Do people not realise how rich it is to say literally any nation is hated that isnt france/britain/italy....
Italy has one of the best top tier MBTs now and is the only tree that gets you an F16, a Gripen, an ADV, a Mig29, a Av8b+, and helicopter spikes. As an Italy main with like 3000 kills between the tech tree centauros, we're doing alright, we have "wants" not "needs".
@@SadisNic so the one time i stick up for italy i get that wrong too, nice
@@BugattiONE666 We need something better than the Otomatic, I'll give you that, but you're spot on for France, the gap in ground from 10.0 to 11.7 is absolutely insane.
Britian is the worst nation in game,
Italy is number 1 at top tier with the best leo2. Lol. Italy 3.7-4.0 is very good.8.0,9.0,10.3. You dont know shee
I would like to add Britain into this mix.
You know I'm pretty sure the community has suggested some pretty good self-propelled anti aircraft guns for America, but it's whether or not gaijin decides to add such vehicles, but I do find it sometimes a bit strange that they would add more anti aircraft guns to the Russian tech tree but not to America?, so really if that doesn't scream Russian bias I don't know what does, or they just have a secret hatred for pretty much all Nations because I'm pretty sure they got a secret hatred for the German tech tree.
I find it weird that the us tree never got the AA bradley
Huge British gap, you kidding? 5.3 to 8.3 gap
Of which. One of the 5.3s is out done by the 4.0 AA. And the other is so squishy it can really only be played as an AA, and it isn't really that good.
Don’t get me wrong. I would love to see some new American spa , but this would be a bad idea. They’re already annoying enough as is to grind out and all this would do is just add more useless vehicles to the tech tree that you would then have to grind out.
That is not even an argument? Who thinks like that?? Useless? The US has ZERO anti airs between 4.0-7.7 and that is horrific
M19 t22 with only HEVT 5.0-6.0 and t249 7.3 up.
HEVT at 5.0-6.0? Straight up to 8.7-9.0, what are you talking about
@nozemi9074 think of it like WZ305 but worse in gun handling, mobility, and limited ammo. And I wouldn't be surprised if Gaijin modeled the suspension problem it has ilr.
@@nulaponlove5621 Nah, ammo type >>> anything else in balance. Hence VEAK 40 was placed at 7.7
The Vulcan is a terrible AA piece and the radar never works
Add the M114 with it's 20mm, LOL!
Its their way of artificially rigging top tier in favor of Russia. Pantsir + Su-25 combo cant be beat. ADATS cant shoot out to the range SU-25 can fire the 40km missiles. US cas cant kill the SU-25 because Pantsir. Pantsir can cover 15km. That leaves about 5km of space between the pantsir and the map barrier that turns you around. US CAS is supposed to operate in this thin margin while dodging Pantsir missiles. They recently even made Air to Air loadouts cost as much as bombs because when the AMRAAM was released US was able to shoot down some SU-25s. Devs didnt like that so they nerfed it right away. The ADATS and Pantsir have the SAME SPAWN COST. Top tier is a rigged carnival game made by bias Russian devs.
Adats was a TD, so it was worse before. I think the slamraam would help. it does need a radar, but they could just skip that step.
@@Mountainlake1 I think we’d probably get NASAMS so it could be thrown into multiple trees.
I have grinded m42 but I saw they removed it from my game in recent patches.
Its nested behind the M19 now.
Yes it is behind M19 now, hard to see
It`s in the same place with M19
I find it weird how the most powerful nation (in regards to military budgets and technology) gets absolutely man handled in majority of games. I also find it weird that Gaijin thinks it's ok to keep adding on top of the already known and cancerous premiums. I just find it weird that a developer of a video game would have a nation like the US to be the red headed step child of War Thunder. But then again, we all truly know why don't we. That's all
dude they need to fix LOSAT it's been 10 months
They don't hate america. They hate american ground tech tree. But heli or plane or naval, they love that shit.
meanwhile Russia get almost one spaa per update...
Thank you for this excellent video. I am still using the M16 all the way up to the m42. And I have massive kills using the M16 quad. But it is no good against Jets. And it is also no good in defense and as a tank destroyer unlike everything in the Russian and German line. I hope they can address this problem. And I hope it doesn't turn out like the skink. Which we asked for and beg for for years and then it turned out that they completely nerfed it. It's a waste of space. But anyway thank you very much the Gap in the American anti-aircraft Tech Tree Line is ridiculous
I feel like Japan AA tree is worse..
Not really
bro if u look up m1a2 armor it says 700mm on hull in wikipedia YET GAIJIN PUTS LESS THAN 400MM ARMOR ON THE HULL
the mantlet though..
long 88 could pen that shit
no spaa's mid tier
HORRIBLE heavies compared to russian heavies
To be honest most MBT mantlets are very underarmored as its expected for the gun breech to absorb the hit and also heavily armouring all around the gun barrel would make maintenance a nightmare.
700 mm against heat? On the hull not checks right,
they could put the skink on the US tree.. cause is based on the sherman.. and cause Canada and us are closer than England nations..
gaijin the only thing they do.. is just to nerf America...
either no SPAA... either over tier the tanks.. either nerf the tanks.. and the most shocking is that the most American tanks get the 1 br up tier every match... every single match what ever the br.. like they punish the players..
I write this few times check ammo position in tiger I - take 12 ammo and you see where the ammo is stored and taken... somebody tell my how loader can get it?
I think it is because america gets great CAS and that's pretty much the only reason. No conspiracies, nothing.
Gaijin just hate there game, and can't do something with that tons of bags!
the m19 is better than the 163 so really the us doesn't have an another useful aa until the m247.
the lavad is good but there is no useful aa until the adats if you even consider it to be useful, in my opinion the 2s6 is on par with the adats.
the only useful higher br aa's are the m247 and lavad, the chaperal used to be good but then they took its smokeless missiles so now its trash
I think you should make a broader video about "Why Does Gaijin HATE SPAA" in general.
They are labeled as "essential" to every lineup.
They are far worse than tanks in most respects, yet cost the same across the board to research and spade.
Any SPAA that can kill tanks even decently well soon gets obliterated by BR increases.
Even though we have volumetric shells and overpressure to rein in their former stupidity, many are still saddled with old nerfed AP belt compositions.
All high tier AAs are stuck with insulting shell count limits on APDS/APFSDS rounds, while IFVs with sometimes the exact same cannons get limitless stocks of both.
Many are outright missing their best AP/APCR/APDS rounds, some are also missing HE-VT.
They are very difficult to learn in RB, in AB their repair bills are ridiculous, and in all modes rewards for plane kills (their main job) are insulting.
Last but not least, due to all the above making them unpopular, there are dozens upon dozens missing which could fill numerous gaps in many tech trees.
I would like america to get the m1 liberty II system
If they really cared about the US tech tree then we wouldnt have 2 versions of the same lame aircraft. We have two F-80's and two F-104's. Youre telling me that we couldnt get other USAF legends like the F-101, F-102 or F-106?
America suffers in so many ways beyond just spaa. Not even worth playing USA imo
Forget aa. How about adjusting br back so you can grind rank 3 before br 5. Bs considering most have 3-3.3 vehicles that are the SAME vehicle and br but are rank 3 because of….. reasons.
What about japan and france both have worst and over tier MBT for them lercler doesnt have armor while type 90 and tkxp doesnt have ammunition capable for it tier
How does he have his tank facing the other way?
cant sell them russian prem cas if they add all the cool SPAA
The joke is they don’t. Look at their air tech tree, look at their naval tech tree, look at the abrams reloads etc.
the reload was buffed because the winrate was so bad, it still bad.
@@uniquescorpions4802 Cruisers are good yes, but the dreadnoughts are the Standards which are arguably shit.
I’d say America needs more top tier spaa cause the adats isn’t very good and the Roland is horrible and the lav can’t lock a helicopter from 3km
Yeah and ask ngaijin why they always nerf German apds auto cannon?
I understand the us AA problem by how about Israel or Italy
U don’t need aa if u don’t have to defend against USA CAs
And what about the M1A2 SEPV3? Where is that? Clearly top tier USA ground needs help, it’s nearly a copy paste vehicle with some armor differences… it wouldn’t be hard to add.
Or the Abrams turret ring bug report that I spent HOURS on making that they STILL haven’t implemented?
To bad they give you pennies for rewards for achievements
It doesnt
If you think the skink or the others solve any of great Britain’s age issues you’re living on another planet there horrible AA with horrendous, reloads low ammo count, and traverse times not to mention the gaps in a couple of their firing arcs. It wasn’t for the spitfires, Great Britain would have nothing going for them. Not to mention the huge gap between the skink the Z 35 the falcon and chieftain marksman. It’s exactly what Great Britain needed three days at the same br.. not to mention the falcon is far inferior to the other two at the br
don't you mean Britain.
as someone pointed out they are Russian. how is a t72 better than an M1 ... seriously
T-72 is not as powerful as the Abrams in warthunder .let alone better than it ,
The T-72 is not better than the M1, 4 km/h reverse gear means you can't get out of a shitty situation, you have 5 degrees of gun depression, a slower reload, worse mobility meaning your opponents will always get to positions before you, and the tank is useless as a result if the armor is not enough, while the M1 can still use its mobility and reload alongside the fact the T-72 has no thermals while the M1 does, and even if you're talking about the top tier T-72 and Abrams, the abrams still holds the advantage in firepower, reload, and mobility along with the gun depression.
They could have made the XM800T an SPAA but they decided to give it DM63 rounds which it never used so that they could make it a light tank at a BR where it's gun is useless.
Also American SPAA is pretty trash at top tier too compared to all the Pantsir and ItOs which a lot of nations have access to. The ADATS is only a moderate threat to aircraft within 10km and if they maneuver at all the missile just refuses to hit. The Pantsir and ItO just obliterate everything within 15km
What do you think should be the too tier usa aa instead of adats?
"where its gun is useless" meanwhile people getting nukes with it🤯🥶
@@nonameloginss people can get a nuke with anything- plus people get nukes with it because it caps points and scouts, not because its gun is actually good
@@2goober4u the pantsir the US captured from Libya, the MEADS, or the "High Mobility Launcher" with AMRAAMs and Aim-9xs
@@Zealot2024 you want a ground amraam/9x launcher? that's gonna be the pantsir situation all over again, especially with how overbearing US cas is right now
why germany spaa line is touched? german ww2 spaas have 37 mm gun and low pen russia have duble pen in lower br.... + israel no have toptier spaa, adats is a good spaa more competitive vs the german toptier spaa... america no get this update new spaa germany no get last 2 update new toptier plane...
My opinion on why the US doesn't need more AA at the time is because every tank has a .50 cal. When you're flying around, especially in props, the sky gets filled with bullets, which can do a surprising amount of damage. So because of that alone, I feel other nations are more of a priority for new AA.
Edit: Posted this before I got to the part in the video where you mentioned the same thing.
In my experience gaijin too much supports Germany and Russia and now China and Pakistan .
Other nations not so much
Because Russia
Russia has the worst new fox 3, the airframes of both the MiG-29 and Su-27 are badly nerfed, the R-77 sucks so badly that it has to be guided by the planes radar or it will be notched so easily its not even a challenge, and its outran by the AIM-120 as well.