Absurd Power Scaling in Dragon Ball Super
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Does the POWER of Dragon Ball Super Characters MAKE SENSE? Mike and I examine the Absurd Power of Dragon Ball Super. | Download Bleach Immortal Soul: patron.me/Geekd... | Redeem this code: XSRA0UDO for free kick-off prize: Gacha Token *2, Soul Jades*50 and Gold*5K | LSM: / laughingstockmedia1
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Yo, geekdom, what state are you from?
Geekdom101
Honestly, there is no proper power scaling in DBS simply because it’s all BS and it’s been completely broken, shattered beyond the point of no return. It’s a literally like an actual cartoon rather than an anime series.
The only true dragon Ball power scaler is Revolusane.Chuck lost all validity when he tried to put ssj3 Goku comparable to Ultimate Gohan in the manga and Seth when he thought Broly is stronger than Gogeta,a video he deleted.
I’m pretty sure Freeza’s comment about getting to a Power Level of 1.3 Million was in reference to his 1st form, which means Freeza said he wanted to almost double his strength given his base was 530k on Namek
The moment your realize that goku got more powerful in 48 minutes of the T.O.P then he did training for 7 years in the afterlife.
fax
The seven year time skip allowed him to get much stronger, learn different techniques and tap into two different forms. 6 years later(plus 3 years in the hyperbolic time chamber) Goku gained 2 more forms, and eventually tapped into ultra instinct. 45 minutes of intense fighting would push any Saiyan to unfounded levels.
Lol, tell that to Broly, he got stronger without even one single hard training, yes Kefla I'm talking about you two too
Eh. That’s DB for ya
@@Omega-jg4oq kefla did train
Merchandising and nostalgia. That's why they used older forms.
Exactly.
He knows this to. Hell we all knew this if we watched this show back in the day. That’s why Super’s writing has been unoriginal.
You really believe the only reason they still use ssj is for nostalgia? It was built up for how long as a transformation of legend and saiyans are prideful.
@Void and Fillet Fish In terms of logic in show, SSJ just has the least drain, has done since the Cell Saga where they removed all drain, so it's essentially a free power up, whereas all forms after that have some drain, SSJG we're told has very few issues though but SSJB we know has huge stamina issues
Think the word you're looking for is *MARKETING!*
The power scaling makes sense when you turn off your brain.
Just like dragon ball as a whole
Kendall Uzumaki lol hell nah put some respect on db name
Lmao exactly. That's why some of us couldn't get into super.
And close one eye, tilt your neck and stand on one leg while holding a beer. That is when things start to hopefully become clearer.
Power scaling means even lesser now because it's become more merchandise heavy. They are specifically made to bust out random forms even though they don't need it so they can sell those in Fighterz,Dokkan ,Legends etc. These game make more than the even the movie revenues. Hence they don't even care about plot coherence. They know they can just put stuff on screen and people will buy it because it's dragonball . They have never been above doing stuff like this . Even after Toriyama dies, they will breed another guy to keep writing stuff for DB to milk it. This thought that they carefully plan out in a room who is stronger than who is just hilarious now. They literally go against their own source material . They don't give a fuck. One of the reasons I could never get in DBS .
I want to know what is so special about God ki? We're told having god ki is this powerful thing yet we've seen goku & vegeta get their butts handed to them by guys who have none
It does make sense though. The only real ones that dont is Broly/Kale, who were saiyans with extreme potential/a fused warrior like Vegito. Beerus is a god, Frieza's golden form is abusurd to powerscale because wtf even is his golden form, Hit can skip time, the Zamsues are technically gods, while Jiren and Toppo are god candidates/beings implicitly stated to be stronger than gods. All of these characters mentioned have power/hax on the realm of the Gods. Any other instance of other characters keeping up with SSB is just Goku/Vegeta being saiyan idiots and enjoying the fight
@@dalesabandal9113 is that you toriyama?
Tbh there ki control is more substained in the state which explains y he did it to fight Krillin but didn’t use it to fight buu (we all know there’s no way Krillin is close to majin buu power terms) and on that note, that’s y I always use the manga for power scaling. It makes so much more sense there. Kefla is at a gohan level and android 17 could only fight up to ssj3 goku
@@simplysupreme1030 Goku literally took naps in his Super Saiyan 1 form, he can't do that in blue. This whole sustainable argument in bs. No reason to use blue against Krillin
@@simplysupreme1030 actually, after Krillin's bullshit power up he probably is right up there with Mr Buu.
Wouldn't win because he can't overpower the regen, but similar raw power
Powerscaling can either be fun or toxic depending on who you're debating with
Definitely
Mostly toxic. People think if your character lose too another it some how Diminish their anime.
@@dec2567 taking a big fat L makes anything look weak, even a sayian god.
Dante Caudillo
Most fictional debates are toxic, there’s a variety of reasons as to why.
@@funnybot4605 yeah but only fanboys care. You think these author actually cares if their character loses too another in different anime/manga?
*taps forehead*
Can't have powerscaling if all the characters have no limits to their power
Oye
Long time no see
The homie has returned
Heyyyyyyyy
Hello grand elder
Tap my forehead
When Dragon Ball comes back to TV, writers should just treat this as a clean slate. Establish how powerful the characters are after the T.O.P and take care not to make the same mistakes again.
That would be great. So much of super was so random with random things. The ritual in BoG. But atleast they worked hard and trained for Blue. Only to lose to Frieza, that's been dead for years and achieved his transformation in a short time. Then the whole res F arc for the rest of the Z fighters was going on about how they haven't kept up on fighting. And then they just somehow get it all together for the ToP recruitment arc and be the best they have ever been, holding their own against Blue...
And then the big question that's the elephant in the room. How strong is Beerus? Compared to post ToP goku, or UI Goku, Or Vegeta? So many retcons and arguments over how strong, or how much strength Beerus was using in the battle of gods fight. Can Goku or Vegeta defeat him now? Or is Beerus just that much stronger?
Doing it too clearly means there's no drama though. You can predict who wins based mostly on the numbers then.
Yeah but if it’s a clean slate they might make them weaker than they were in Super by not paying attention.
@@specialnewb9821 Dude. Just have Beerus spar against Vegeta & Goku, from that we can scale. Then from there, since Universe 7 is a plot with planets, new enemies with TECHNIQUES that push the main cast to their limits. It's literally 1st grade writing dude.
Facts. This show has to much potential to ruin. I want them to take their time to make sure everything is organized plot, animation, etc.
Master Roshi being able to even breathe in the tournament of power blows my mind after having a power level of 200 in the Saiyan Saga
Its for nostalgia purposes. Nostalgia sells
Hey, during the Saiyan Saga, Goku and Piccolo had power levels under 500. Clearly that sort of insane power growth isn't impossible in Dragon Ball - it's just, given Roshi's age, you'd think if they could get that powerful through regular training, they'd have done it a century or more ago.
I hope that when Super comes back Toei gets a consistent showrunner. I mean we got Shintani and his old school animations for the Broly movie, I hope that they can take this on board as well.
They will bro
Same bro. This show has to much potential to waste and u think during the second half they realized this which is why it got better as it went on. I want them to take their time to get organized so the show can be at its best
Shintani's animation is not old school. It's modern dragon ball.
@@leultrainstinct406 100% agree
am I the only one who didn't liked animation in Broly movie that much. I mean it had some very pretty scenes, animation of final fight Gogeta vs Broly looks dope , but for the most part of the movie, there was a lot bad quality of animation, for example: fight between Frieza and Broly, quality of animation drops badly. If I have to compare between this Broly film and the old one, I would choose the old one.
Toryiama surely doesn't care. He's just having a good time writing.
It could be that simple but we overthink it
And I appreciate that. Power scaling is crazy, but it fits the DB universe perfectly.
he just wants to keep doing his mediocre comedy manga and dragon quest character designs and having nothing to do with DB ever again, can't wait for the day when Toyotaro has total creative control
Naw, he’s just having a good time getting paid. I like DB but Toriyama has become a bit of hack with how often he “forgets” his own story and how he has regressed the development of certain characters. Mainly Goku.
from what i heard "writing" is a little stretch.
The biggest problem with power scaling is that transformations used to be multipliers, but are now treated like small power boosts.
Agreed 💯
More accurately, plot boosts.
Lol at this point every time they get stronger I just assume that’s like ten more universes they can destroy
That's mindless thinking
@@kendalluzumaki74 at this point, he's not wrong, krillin should be a solar system buster according to dbs logic
@@kendalluzumaki74 I mean..given what SSG Goku and Beerus could do at the beginning of Super when their fight supposedly literally begun to crack the universe. Then take all the crazy power ups and leaps hell from even the T.O.P alone why not add a few more universes to that it would be illogical to think other wise if that feat was actually consistent.
@@treemane0 technically speaking a star buster can destroy a solar system if he causes a supernova
@@AmjedAce Technically technically just destroying all planets of a solar system is destroying the solar system.
Goku went from almost getting blown OFF the t.o.p when Jiren released just a lil bit of his power to bring able to block the guys punches and just talk to him while joking...
All in the span of a half hour.....
Caulifla and Kale were able to push a ssj2 god saiyan to go god form to fight them......
Android 17 took a kick that was meant to get Royal Blue vegeta out the game and STILL kept fighting...
Hmmmmm😂😂😂
It's weird cause they said that goku and them has been getting stronger threw out the tournament and during fights. Also weird that people in the tournament only need a min or 2 to recharge/get back to full power while in other arcs they take like 10 minutes to even get back half of there power.
It's all good it’s shitty writing dawg as simple as that...
dont forget Kale tanked super saiyan blue goku kamehameha. then they have the mindset of making Kale and Caulifia fuse into something so much more powerful than Goku's transformation which doesnt make any sense. Caulifia should be a twig to Goku compared to his fighting experiences. Kale shouldn't even be that strong.
@@nicoduran98 glad my hero academia has consistent writing
I don't get how jiren one shots SSB KKx20 Goku who at that point is already way stronger than 17 and yet later 17 is doing dmg and taking hits from jiren later. Makes no sense
Damn, I remember how frustrating it was when someone would get a weird power up or when everyone became god level every couple episodes.
like 17 and the rest of the Z fighters?
The writers clearly don't give a shit about power scaling, they're just trying to write foght scenes that look cool and or interesting. And if that means blue goku has to match up to merged zamasu than oh well.
It's ridicules. "We haven't used Trunks this series, just give him blue aura, done".
Man geekdom I thank you so much for your videos I wouldn’t be half as knowledgeable without your videos
Silence you are mere trash compared to me!
@@diobrando271 Silence non cannon character!
Reminder:Gero made androids STRONGER than super saiyans using pre-namek saga data. Yeah power scaling in this series is quite wonky.
Or you can argue Gero did some power scaling him self as a contingency. If you think about it Goku died in a year and came back roughly 30x stronger than before (His 320 Power level against Raditz to nappa and the Whole Over 9/8 thousand against Nappa) not to mention his Kaioken increases which are like 4 times that at peak Saiyan Saga Goku that's like a 120x increase in like a year. Now take in subsquent years of projected data based on that.
Though the bigger issue is, HOW does Gero manage to make Humans into Ssj Hunting machines, when Frieza who was already SSJ tier and was noted to have become stronger from his cybernetic enhancments was still a joke. And It's likely he had the Galaxy or his Empires smartest most capable minds over seeing his entire procedure making him stronger than he ever was before, but he still got killed by a Ssj who's afraid of some guy who cooks up super powerful machines from Earth in his basement basically.
@@Naruku2121 Reminder that Gero didn't even know about Goku turning super sayian. The whole making androids that are stronger than Frieza just seems overkill. It's like if you wanted to kill Mike Tyson and built an atomic bomb to do it.
@@vanjagalovic3621 I think he did some guessing, and calculated how many power boosts goku is going to have and how effective they are and built the androids according to that
TECHNICALLY, only one Android was stronger than an SSJ1 and that was #16. #17 and #18 are Cyborgs (aka not androids) made from Genetically enhanced humans and some mechanical parts. #19 and #20 are Androids but were actually a lot weaker than Goku or Vegeta: #19 gets fucking CLOBBERED by weakened SSJ1 Goku and only starts fighting equally when Goku feeds him a ton of chi via kamehameha and Goku ultimately loses because of the heart virus. Vegeta was able to beat up a #19 that enhanced itself further by taking some of Vegeta's chi (and it was very one sided, a single big bang attack killed it outright). Gero stole some energy from a few ki attacks and then drained Piccolo of a lot of his chi. Piccolo is restored via senzu and then proceeds to fuck Gero into the ground VERY hard. From what we know at this point. Vegeta in SSJ1 is still MUCH stronger than Piccolo which further proves the massive gap.
Also fun fact: According to Gero's data, Goku at this point in time should have only been about as strong as Yamcha turned out to be. When patrolling the city, #19 detects a large energy level and determine is must be Goku based on projected data. Instead, it's little ol Yamcha. Gero himself states that based on his algorithms and based on Goku's age, Goku shouldn't be THAT much stronger than he was during the Saiyajin Saga. That's why #19 and #20 are dogshit compared to SSJ1 Vegeta, max power piccolo, weakened heart virus SSJ1 Goku, etc.
@@Shoddragon It's kinda weird then how he made Android 18 & 17 so ridiculously strong, when he was expecting Goku to only be as strong as Yamcha
19:34
The creativity that ending had was hilarious. Everyone’s picture came to life and ran away(or in the GP’s case, walked away)
My head canon makes perfect sense
I want that on a shirt!
Yo, I spit out my cereal from how funny that was! I needed that mood boost before work, thank you
Hahaha for real
Power scaling has always been wonky, but it got completely thrown out the window when they implied that Goku's base form was now as nearly as strong as his god form. Nothing about that statement was carried out consistently one way or the other.
Bro I've been over this since 2016 he absorbed the power trained his ass off it makes sense if you understand basic powerscaling. Yes 17 getting buffed was an asspull but everything else makes sense.
@@anond5754 No it doesn't.
@@myau9912 To you because you're a casual no offence
@@anond5754 No. It only makes sense if you just completely ignore it and pretend the line never existed, just like Beerus saying he had to use 70% of his power. It was a dumb line that threw everything off, just like Beerus saying Gokus baseform became as strong as his God form.
@@myau9912 preach
Clearly they went back to gold forms because those are the iconic forms that sell toys and build brand awareness.
Geekdom I think would be a cool idea to go over a lot of The Sibling fights in Dragon Ball from Goku vs. Raditz 2 Gohan vs Goten in GT even 17 vs 18 and even the dragons in GT that would be cool
At the end DBS is overrated and its just depends of Nostalgia
Well no its not its the fan base that destroy it and toxic people that spread false facts to the anime and manga
I would like to point out that Frieza in his first form was the unrivalled strongest in the universe outside of gods
And now think of every character that has outshined that
9:55 understatement of the century
DB Powerscaling went to shit when dbs entered
@God Of Savages The Cell Saga was extremely straight forward...
It’s been shit since the namek saga. in the cell saga there is multiple
how tien stopped semi perfect cell even know piccolo couldn’t scratch a weaker form of cell
how gohan turned a stomp around against cell even though ssj2 is a 2x boost
how gohan gets his arm broken by a simple ki blast and then kills cell with one arm
. How the humans didn’t die to the cell jrs after cell the jrs to kill them,
how the androids are so strong despite Gero not knowing about super saiyan
How vegeta,trunks, are just ignored in the cell games despite training longer
@@imedd3191 did you not see how they litteraly trained for most of the times. And tien couldn't 1v1 2nd form cell, that's why he tried to end him with the tri beam
Tremain Dzuimo yeah he used the same move that couldn’t do jack SHIT to a caught of guard Nappa with a smaller power gap.
Hell tien probably wasn’t even stronger than base goku at the time. And doesn’t explain how tiens tri bean can stop cell but piccolos light grenade doesn’t make a weaker cell flinch
Tony Ferguson the tri bean still makes no sense because it was used on Nappa and did absolutely nothing at all with a closer gap In power,and tien has been implied to be weaker than base saiyans
The reason why the ssj2 x2 boost is also a mess is because apparently the other super saiyan grades power difference was so small it makes you wonder why they even used them plus gohan with 1 arm is stronger then his ssj1 form
Also the gap thing has been always inconsistent, (also frieza a 120m power lvl wasn’t constant) like vegeta destroyed Dodoria with a 9% gap yet 1st form frieza and vegeta look even despite vegeta had a power lvl of 240,000, vegeta shaking off gokus kaioken x4 Kamehameha, or how goku didn’t get vaporized from taking a Hit 4x stronger than him, its also kinda odd that when cell unleashed his full power he on ssj2 gohan got barely stronger.
and that vegeta and trunks part was more of a story issue mb I think I meant to mention the part how vegeta messed up cell is kinda inconsistent again surprise attacks seem to never work in dbz even on people much stronger than you and some times it dies,it’s all very confusing
Gohan: I stopped training 7 years ago and weaker than my kid form.
Power scalers: Gohan's pl has increased 20 trillion.
Gohan: trains with piccolo and swaps hands with Goku who got way stronger
Haters: but, but, he use to be weaker he's not stronger😒
Raditz , Vegeta , and Nappa: Can Destroy planet with one hand in Saiyan Saga.
But Raditz power level is 1,500.
Nappa's power level is 4,000.
While Vegeta's is 18,000 in Saiyan Saga.
Kid Goten: Can't Destroy Planet even in Kamehameha!
Kid Goten power level : 1.55 Billion😂
Kid Goten can definitely solos Saiyan Saga🤣💩
What a 🗑️ anime!!!
2:22 I love how Gohan and Piccolo have the same look, seems like even Toriyami knows of the "Gohan's real dad" meme
Geekdom: Power scaling is back at it again
Seththeprogrammer: Not today mate!
After watching this I kinda feel bad I came at someone hard over ssj2 gohan vs cabba (manga) because they claimed that because in the manga trunks says their zenkai’s ran out goku and vegeta’s base forms haven’t gotten any stronger since the namek saga
(I think that’s crap tho not gonna lie)
Yea it is honestly lol. Geekdom made a Video 3 years ago basically proving they still get Zenkai boosts.
XxnoscopexX123 even if they stopped getting zenkai boosts their base forms would still get stronger through training. All zenkai boost does is give the saiyans a power boost after they recover from near death.
HellSpawn Vicious that’s what I was telling him but he wasn’t getting it he thinks they capped at frieza saga and goku vegeta and gohan(not mystic) basically have a power level of 3000000 and cabba and Caulifla do as well it was maddening but I wasn’t very nice when I was trying to convince him he was wrong technically the debate is still going on
2Coop 4U he claims that the whole god beyond saiyan thing was in effect for that but it goes away after that arc
God Of Savages pretty sure that’s what he means
The strongest power in this series is talking holy shit there's like 50 times in this series where characters are completely drained,defeated but nope let somebody in the sideline say some generic anime "get up" bullshit and bam completely at full strength and exponentially stronger than they were 10 seconds ago like seriously they dont give af about plot anymore
Ngl that's kind of 90% of all shonen or basically any story with fighting and the mains are the underdogs.
Power Scaling became irrelevant in Super real fast, while it’s not a huge problem there are moments where some characters are more powerful than they have any right to be.
Ranger 27 vs Blue Goku for example or Roshi beating Tien like nothing. (Even with the powerup, Tien should have been able to keep up with Roshi instead of getting washed.)
Roshi had not fought in years before getting recruited while Tien has been training constantly so no I don’t buy that, he should have been evenly matched at least with Tien. Also while 17 has limitless energy and has been possibly training he shouldn’t even be near Goku’s level with Blue.
SSJ3 I can believe he can match that easily at this point but not with God Ki, that’s just ridiculous.
I don’t remember that detail but if it’s true Tien should have at least been to hold his own or he should just been left out of the TOP entirely.
As for 17 if he can match Blue than God Ki must be pointless in general, that form is the highest he can go (excluding Kioken) so 17 should have been taken down like what happened to Tien.
Geekdom 101: The absurdity of power scale in Dragon Ball.
Dragon Ball Heroes: Hold my scouter!
If im correct lmao it just tries to promote a game
Most feats or statements are made to create character moments, whether it makes sense or not. If most of the scaling complaints were brought up to any of the creators - Toriyama or Toei or Toyotaro - I doubt they would care at all, if they even understood what the complaints were. A lot of decisions make more sense if you throw numerical logic out the window and start thinking about what Toriyama wanted the characters to be like in the moment. These are all writing problems. A setting will only make as much sense as the sense used in making it.
PlaugeofGripes? I'm a big fan man.
Raditz , Vegeta , and Nappa: Can Destroy planet with one hand in Saiyan Saga.
But Raditz power level is 1,500.
Nappa's power level is 4,000.
While Vegeta's is 18,000 in Saiyan Saga.
Kid Goten: Can't Destroy Planet even in Kamehameha!
Kid Goten power level : 1.55 Billion😂
Kid Goten can definitely solos Saiyan Saga🤣💩
What a 🗑️ anime!!!
@@bobomo9090 Lmao Goten doesn't have any official power level 😂
as fans
we take it way serious
and Toriyama is too old and too rich to give a shit
Power levels are meaningless in Dragon Ball
How ?
LilSpaz 17 ok so here’s why gokus official power level in the namek saga(ssj) was 150,000,000 now imagine the power level cell who is way stronger then frieza it would be absolutely ridiculous in an interview someone asked Akira toryiama what is majin Buus powerlevel and Akira actually said not even majin buu knows so they do matter it’s just that they get a little ridiculous after they get past the millions and billions now imagine ui omen goku and jirens power level it would be scary
Davis Okeke so basically u agree with me and disagree with him
@@Cephus1-n5w he agrees with both
Raditz , Vegeta , and Nappa: Can Destroy planet with one hand in Saiyan Saga.
But Raditz power level is 1,500.
Nappa's power level is 4,000.
While Vegeta's is 18,000 in Saiyan Saga.
Kid Goten: Can't Destroy Planet even in Kamehameha!
Kid Goten power level : 1.55 Billion😂
Kid Goten can definitely solos Saiyan Saga🤣💩
What a 🗑️ anime!!!
I feel like Beerus was just
Goating Goku about Frezza just to antagonize him.
Without scouters all we can do is just say “well he beat someone who can blow up 2 planets” lol
@NYC_Eddy 😕???
But that's how it is supposed to be. Dragon Ball had made it so that Goku's limit is difficult to pinpoint. All we know for sure is that Goku is undoubtedly capable of destroying Earth and has only gotten stronger. But it's he able to destroy, let's say, a star? A galaxy? A solar system? We don't really know because not only does Goku not have very many feats that are quantifiable but power multipliers went to sit after SSJ3.
Jhordan Thomas bro what r u sayin
@@computationjix428 we know goku can destroy universes at this point, anyway you look at it goku is one of the most op anime main characters
Jhordan Thomas sayan saga vegeta destroyed a planet with 2 fingers in filler , i see no reason that shouldn’t be canon xD
Here's the problem with Beerus' statement:
He's comparing ants to ants, or he's comparing what he thought Frieza may have grown into (since he proved one saga later he has insane potential). But Beerus only says something like "now I see why you were able to beat Frieza" only after seeing Super Saiyan 3. Goku was able to pulverize DBZ eras of Frieza since Super Saiyan grade 1, let alone Super Saiyan 3. Something isn't right here about Beerus' estimation. Either he's plain wrong or he was expecting Frieza to have gotten stronger by the time he fought Goku.
Goku base was less than Frieza Namek full power when he fought Beerus. Frieza final form is his base and it was 120,000 on Namek. Goku base was still 3mil.
He just beat Frieza bc of the Super Saiyan multiplier=Base×50.
In DB Super, Goku base power didnt match Frieza on Namekz thats why Beerus says Goku couldn't have beat 100% Frieza in Goku base form.
Goku base didnt past 100% Namek Frieza until after his training with Whis before Frieza Resurrected.
Gokus training with Whis made his base power stronger. This allowed Goku to match a Frieza who trained. In DBS Frieza base is higher than 100% Namek Frieza and DBS Goku was able to match it in his base.
Before Whis training
Goku base >3mil3mil 120mil
10:00 i absolutely agree with this LOL toriyama has been part of the 1% for over 3 decades that man is making way too much money to care
There's nothing wrong with the statement: "I don't think Goku can beat Frieza"
Don't forget about Frieza's enormous potential where he trained 4 month and caught up to everything Goku did up to that point. What Beerus must of been referring to would of been "With how much potential Frieza had(he'd assume Frieza must been training), there's no way Goku could beat Frieza.
*Obviously assuming both Goku and Frieza both been training the whole time.
The thing is frieza shouldnt have reach that lvl of power period
@@Invisibleboy999 💯
@@Invisibleboy999 This aged horribly in the latest manga chapter ngl.
@@Ez-gf2bk i like how they give an actual ok (not great but ok) reason as to why frieza is so much stronger but not when he was in resurrection f like wtf was ur that hard writers?
That power increase from freezer is not coherent with the plot and the story itself, in DBZ freezer shit his pants every time the Common Super Saiyan was mentioned, if he was so scared of it, he only need it to train like what 1 month and he technically will be MILLIONS of times stronger than a ssj1, it took Goku and Vegeta, decades of training, die multiple times, fighting villains hundreds of times stronger than freezer, to achieve their current level, but suddenly he got revived and he jump from point A to Z and abracadabra he's now stronger than them suddenly out of nowhere.
*I really NEED THIS VIDEO. THANKS!*
The problem with power scaling in all anime is fanboys care more than the writers. lol im pretty sure they don't care about feats. I doubt the author are making their manga,and saying oh I have to show a light speed feat,so fanboys can use it in a internet form argument. Lol
You have to understand that authors should try their beat to maintain a consistency in characters powers. With Super there's clearly not even the slightest bit of thought put into the development or consistency of power. The power of a character is determined by what the story needs which make the writing bad. Power scaling is linked to writing in a lot of cases.
Tony Ferguson last part sounds like it started in the namek saga
@@Just_That_Guy910 That is true, if it was up to Toriyama it would of just been Merged Zamasu vs Goku and Vegeta, it was Toyataro who thought adding Vegito was a good idea. It just happend to been one of the cases where it benefits the story AND marketable as hell, that combination is rare...
When Broly surpasses Goku and Vegeta with all the training and fighting they've done in the entire series, in a single battle. Even surpasses SSJ Gogeta. Damn. And he was already more powerful than pre TOP Goku and Vegeta just by training with Ba and Paragus, which is insane. I'm no Broly stan at all, but this is just crazy.
He didn't have to go blue to beat broly dude he wanted to finish him he was beating his ass in base all he need was to go super saiyan bam brolys done but they had 30 mins so blue ur done bye
@@Wishyouweremeable When Broly went Full Power, he was beating SSJ Gogeta's ass. Maybe SSJ3 Gogeta could've taken out Broly, but that's inefficient, so he went Blue. The real reason he went Blue is fanservice, of course. But FP Broly was overpowering SSJ Gogeta, forcing him to power up again. SSJ2 wouldn't have been enough.
@@PlazDreamweaver Also they kind of suspended the Fusion timer being reduced, given that it was literally Vegito's undoing and he had like an hour. That should of been a risk, granted I think SSG Gogeta could of been sufficent. But they went with the more marketable Blue.
@@Naruku2121 SSG would've been enough, and yeah he only went Blue for fanservice/marketing.
@@PlazDreamweaver But god is more fanservice than blue. It was barely used, like 5 or 4 times
You know what else was pretty crazy? The continuity on the size of the dragon Shenron and Porunga. I remember their size changing soooo many times. Could you possibly make a video in that? Or just a video of size continuity in general?
11:58 "Are you trying to tell me that Krillin with some off screen training with 18 is stronger than Super Saiyan God"
Me: I mean it's practically 17's excuse.
Granted 17 was leagues above well Krillin to begin with, but I think the issue with Super's scaling or power ups is that it's not to say some of those cases are impossible, but they pretty much just handwave such dramatic increases in power without really developing it, in some cases they'll just spam the adapting as the fight goes on, particularly with Saiyans or the main antagonist of the arc like Hit, Goku Black. That after a while such leaps and bounds just 'happen'. While compared to Z and all, characters got strong either because they were purposesly holding back, or a new transformation to be unveiled, they didn't fight that they could adapt suddenly in midbattle like Super in most cases. And the Zenkai situations usually had a moment of rest between major fights and got healed which made it easier to discern characters spikes in power compared to instances in say the T.O.P where characters are fighting for like almost an hour non-stop, but they're supposed to be tired but then they do things that surpass even what their transformations were previously capable of in lesser forms, but were still suppose to be on the brink some how.
Yeah, I feel like super really pushes for the "we get stronger as the fight progresses", Goku black was the start of this fr
It was a gross over exaggeration of saiyan power, as if it wasn't, Goku should've been able to beat Freiza b4 going ssj, he should've grown to be near cells level, and he should've been able to beat kid buu by just constantly hitting and taking damage from him.
Vegeta too should've been improving during that fight but they didn't.
Had they stopped this over exaggerated growth of power in the goku black arc, it wouldve been ok, but then goku and them start REALLY doing it in the t.o.p and it's like, black shouldn't have been a threat in the 1st place then.
There's also Freiza growing beyond ssj, ssj2, and ssG levels.
In only 6 months
That's a college semester....😂😂😂
There's also broly and how he grows in battle too
I think Super has a real problem writing character fights, they over use the "get stronger while fighting" trope and not only that, they are already around God of destruction level if not at it.
There's not very much farther they can go in power battles without it feeling really Bleh
I think morro is a step in the right direction
He's not just pure power but he's got hax that make him dangerous.
@@chriss.249 Yeah, Super's reliance on that whole thing is what really inflates the scaling and it basically capsizes in the T.O.P where it's gets to the point of like 'Are they tired or not?' Like I'll given an example in the T.O.P while there are many. That you can go from Goku cycling all his forms to fight Jiren and get the floor mopped by him in some cases literally given how bad and brutal he got rekted. That some battles two omen uses and may one assist from Frieza later Kaioken Blue Goku with tag team with Vegeta later he's able to swap hands with Jiren. And while some could argue that it still happens and it can some how check out, the problem with that is that it inflates the scaling to absurd levels. It's not to say SBE Vegeta and Super KK Goku where gonna win but there combined efforts were enough that you could retroactively say that if they fought a hypothetical Omen UI Goku first appearnce they might do alright on a low ball version of that Goku given their efforts with a Jiren who wasn't even really worn down by that point and hell even properly rested after the ordeal with UI Omen Goku.
Then the issue with that also means that the following UI Omen Goku should be even more absurdly powerful if the leap in power is consistent which it was. But using that getting stronger while they fight while still trying to push the notion of them getting tired too seems counter intuitve or they just gained a lot of power that their fatigue didn't really matter until the plot wanted to harp on it for dramatic effect.
And Hell that's just Goku and Vegeta, Gohan kind of had that too in terms of suddenly catching up, but they sort of 'tried' by having him train with Piccolo post RoF. But they basically dragged there feet with it untill the 11th hour and Gohan suddenly got his old power back and more some how. Again the issue isn't that Gohan got his power back but they could of used the HBTC something that had past merits for making characters super strong really fast, hell the manga version had Gohan use the Gravity machine and one could argue that Gohan became too OP.
But yeah the problem is like you said the writing as the short of it.
@@Naruku2121 I swear Goku ran out of stamina at least 20 times during the T.O.P. but recovered a few seconds afterwards
@@chriss.249 Actually Goku started this when he began adapting to SSG in base and make it his base form.. That's like me adapting to hydration and staying that hydrated even if I'm in a desert..
@@powerjolt7215
I mean that part I get
It's less jarring than the b.s. pulled afterwards.
Although tbh I'd say he should NEVER have been able to absorb God into his base.
You know it bad when goku has to turn super saiyan just to keep up with his base form
The issue is again the writing has been really inconsistent and they need to really get it together vs just BSing
Yeah lazy writing
Dragonball is falling apart cause toriyama has lost his passion for the show. We care far more about the series more then anyone working on it.
Facts
@Martin Ramirez if you a real fan you know this show is becoming a parody in itself quality is definitely falling fast
Toriyama hasn’t directly worked on anything in DBS in details expect the Brolly movie
The fans have always taken Dragon Ball more seriously than Toriyama. It's not a new occurrence.
@@darcrequiem the fans are actually worse lo have you seen the supersaiyan 10? and several monstrosity the fans could make? lol
I feel like a chunk of this could've been avoided if Super Saiyan God was the last transformation they did.
Part of it also could of worked if it wasn't implied Goku kept the Godki he had in his base to in some extent imagine the kind of inflation that would be espeically when he still cycles through his older forms as well as his God forms.
@@Naruku2121 ikr
I say this all the time, super saiyan god ( red hair) should've been the last form. It had a backstory and buildup to some point and we were invested, there was a reason behind it. Now with blue it's a whole new different story.
What do you think the direction of ultra instinct should've went?
@@dangelotheartist7483 Guess if keeping in theme with SSG being the last form. Then UI could literally just be a state of mind. It could probaly be used only in SSG with peak control of Godki as well as understanding of how to move autonomously.
Geekdom, I think it would have been great if you all the Powerscalers in this video to get everyone's perspective. I know it's time consuming but I think it would've been great.
Powerscaling in Dragon Ball in general (especially after the Namek arc) is interesting and fun to talk about despite its confusion & toxic debates at times.
The only thing toxic about power scaling during the cell and buu arc were..
-is ssj2 gohan stronger then super perfect cell?
-is ultimate gohan stronger then ssj3 goku and gotenks?
-is kid buu stronger then all the previous buus?
-did goku and vegeta getting stronger threw out the buu arc?
@@MAR-sc7np True! Because I have seen so many debates about these topics ESPECIALLY the debate about which Buu is the strongest. These debates usually can get VERY bad and toxic at times. Other than that, I'm cool with powerscaling period.
@Martin Ramirez in the anime goku is stronger then ultimate gohan but in the manga Gohan is still the strongest unfused character in the buu arc.
@Martin Ramirez Actually Evil buu(super buu) was stronger than Kid Buu. That's why Goku was hesistant to fight him 1 on 1.
Kid Buu was the most dangerous Buu but was still weaker than SSJ3 Goku
Yeah like how broly with no training, never fought a day in his life, and only just got super saiyan can beat 2 fighters who trained with an angel and been fighting for decades. Oh yeah and have god ki. Supers scaling is shit.
Shawthentic Nah everyone hates on freeza for getting to blue level in 4 month but no one complains about Broly surpassing the level of Son Goku and Vegeta with SSB in 10 minutes
Martin Ramirez so your saying that if Goten fought Goku that he would get to Gokus level in a small period of time?
@Shawthentic yeah i watched it doesnt mean broly should just surpass goku and vegeta in like 10 minutes
@Shawthentic prodigy or not how the fuck do you beat 2 saiyans who have waaayy more years of fighting experience than you, trained with litteral gods, and have super saiyan transformations that go beyond your regular ass super saiyan transformation. Also to characters who are on godly levels of strength even being able to compete with them.
I hope you know just because your a prodigy doesnt mean you can just surpass anyone especially if you lack training and fighting experience. Broly litterally killed powerscaling fam
@Martin Ramirez thats like if caulifa fights goku. Their both saiyans but goku like i said been fighting for decades. Cleary goku has way more fighting experience than caulifa.
Caulifa was considered a prodigy right but she didnt have the training like goku and even the battle experience like goku. She obviously got stronger the more she fought but could never defeat goku. It was because goku just simply outclass cualifa in skill, knowledge and power. The moment goku activated his god ki a level beyond just normal super saiyans. Caulifa couldnt do nothing.
So how the fuck someone who never trained, first time fighting, just unlocked super saiyan the weakest form surpass goku and vegeta in like 10 minutes is stupid and was litterally plot armor for broly.
I don’t think Toriyama realize how serious we take this Dragonball shit. Naruto writers would never be so inconsistent power scaling.
“I’m outta chakra”-sauske “I wasn’t born in the right clan so I’m out classes now”-like every character that isn’t neji....”for years my rinnegan was a mysterious threat...now just tacked on to all bad guys for that everyone’s a super saiyan affect” -pain....I love naruto but it has the buu saga problem, writing is a mess of ideas and excited poorly. Yk naruto scaling is shit because everyone cool or that works hard, is killed, poisoned, written out of the show, or buffed off screen to be in a small part then never seen again
Naruto is a dbz ripoff
Phillip Abreo I don’t even watch naruto but it is not a dbz rip off, there are lots of differences
War arc.
@@gloving4hire that cap
Trunks trained with Shin Kai to get into SS2. Remember? That opened up his potential ceiling to tap into hidden pockets of power like SSRage.
I get annoyed when people talk about them moving 1000 times or a million times faster than the speed of light. Dude, even two times the speed of light we couldn't even imagine. People need to calm down with the million times faster. That might make the universe explode or erase. I get it's an anime but physics fascinates me and a million times faster than the speed of light is more absurd than me turning the world into cotton candy. They wouldn't need to teleport if they could move that fast. And I love DB. I believe they could wipe the floor with marvel characters.
When I watch the anime I completely ignore powerscaling and just enjoy the fights individually so as not to take away from the emerson.
This needed to be said.
What about what Vegeta said about Goku Black being in a stolen body. Just because you have the power doesn't mean you know how to use it. Frieza new transformation didnt last because he didnt know how to fully utilize it. This could put off power scaling.
Honestly the gains Goku Black was making kind of counters Vegeta for the most part. In most cases he was outdoing Goku himself with Rose' ripping out all kinds of crazy powers which yes even he himself said he didn't understand, but you don't see Goku ripping reality with multiple shadow clones and some shit.
Let's be real power scaling started getting crazy in the frezia arc people is just blinded by nostalgia
There's no justification for super being trash.
I'm pretty sure Frieza meant 1.3 million in his first form. Then when he changes his 2nd form would be way above 1 million, and so on and so on.
Just like a Saiyan. Train to make your first form stronger, and by extension that makes all your transformations stronger as well.
Even then he would be early buu saga goku at best the golden form should be comparable to super vegito if anything
I agree, because Frieza wouldn’t know others power lvls and assume 1.3 million in first form would be huge for his other forms. And during his training he would lvl up ever more. Just assume of course.
12:55
Bro obv they were holding back to save their powers for the strongest one and vegeta went blue just to show the difference, ofc they didn't fully master blue and thats the reason they used lower forms as they said that blue drains stamina. You guys are watch dragon ball or what lol
I kinda thought the beerus line about frezia was him basing it off of just how goku looks and carries himself
I promise these videos can not be long enough. Love geekdoms content!!!
When Frieza was talking about reaching a power level of 1.3 million he might have been referring to his base form, which he was in when he said it. His original PL in his base form was 550,000. So he's talking about more than doubling his base form and possibly exponentially increasing the power of his subsequent forms.
Also, I believe in Japan they use a slightly different numbering system. Along with thousands, they group numbers in tens of thousands, or a myriad. So they way they write the number may have caused a mistranslation, just like the way a billion in America is different from the British billion.
DrahonBall Power: Consistently Inconsistent.
~_~
Powerscaling past the Buu arc is interesting to listen to but I never actually take that shit in as fact honestly. Dragon Ball was just all over the place by that point
I just made a comment about this yesterday😂...i really wish they would do something to reset the power scale. And instead of introducing people with higher power levels just bring in people with new techniques.
@Martin Ramirez you might be right...takes a stupid person to know stupid things.
Toriyama: WhY So SerioUS o_O
Who would win in a debate?
a radical Woke Leftest or a crazy determined Power Scaler?
It's funny how ridiculous the power upgrades got in the ToP, like how base Goku taking punches from Jiren that blue Goku was taking earlier
I think it’s pretty obvious he wasn’t using the same power but whatever
Yoo Mike love the candyman reference..I was just watching that movie few days ago
i wish an official source would just come and outright state what the multipliers are for each transformation
Toei has stopped developing guidebooks for official power multipliers after ssj3 and Z.
I fantasize that one day toriyama will look at the mess Toyotaro made and just take dbz over completely and makes a whole training arc to prepare for the next arc ( using training arc to make other Z fighters useful in the next arc so everyone becomes useful instead of just goku and vegeta) and he writes everything and draws everything and gives us 2 insanely great arcs
To be fair toyotaro has nothing to do anime only the manga
We asked for a new story, and Toriyama gave us a new story. If it's inconsistent with the old story, remember we brought him back to the series after the conclusion that satisfied him.
This so true because I thought 17 and 18 was too weak for trunks when he went back to his time after cell now in db super 17 was keeping on with ssjb 😭😭😭
I miss when dragon ball was simple. That’s why I like GT more than SUPER. I also do agree, SUPER is very inconsistent with the power scaling.
It's almost non-existent at times.
RaginDXDemon i agree with you. It is almost non existent at times.
There is this channel" dbz macky" that provides logical scaling and power levels to the characters that
really explains the inconsistencies specifically in dragon ball super.
Unfortunately the power scale in the series has always been pretty hit or miss. The Frieza arc had decent scaling. The cell arc on ward honestly started to get wild. It’s something I started to ignore
@@sun332s7 I think that was Toriyama's purpose since Power levels were a way to show how nearsighted the villains were
Tom O Tom O I’d take z powerscaling any day. Roshi being able to fight off Frieza force soldiers and a Zarbon level fighter giving post-buu Kamiccolo trouble was the start of massive power leaps and just a vast vagueness of how strong these characters are. From Raditz to fat buu, levels of strength were clear and made sense with the few exceptions.
he is logical?u are on 9?he dun even have brain.
@@JimmyyJimmyy calm down dude , no I'm 17 😂
And atleast for me he provides logical power levels between" battle of gods arc untill the tournament of power arc" , the rest like dragonball z .....can be a lot nonsensical yes but for dragonball super i think he makes sense a lot.
Krilririn was being tested by goku. Goku didnt unleash Blue right away so Krilinin and everybody else can under stand what he was up against.
Toriyama said recently that powelevels doesnt matter anymore. But I think that was just the buildup for TOP.
Geekdom we've been threw this dude. Blue Goku in the manga *IS NOT* as strong or stronger then base or blue vegito in the Goku black arc.
MUI Goku probably is
Naw blue vegito was stated to be as strong as beerus and mui goku is stronger than beerus
@@8-p335 *in the black arc*
All that matters is what looks cool. Cant make sense of any of this shit at least without giving yourself an aneurysm lol
Fr
To me, Super Saiyan Blue should still be the highest form for Goku and Vegeta so far because Ultra Instinct was supposed to be JUST a technique like Kaioken. But I guess now UI is just another “super saiyan form” for Goku to use.
Most people just don't understand and don't want to understand the scaling
You say someone's star lvl or something and they don't wanna accept it, you prove it and they get mad
It's so illogical
"Power Levels are BULL$#!T" - Vegeta DBZA
Power scaling started to be an issue in the end of dbz but alot of the times it was not the entire crux of the story so it didn't appear to be that bad. DBZ also built tension, suspense really well and had really interesting fights + cheorography which hide the unrealisticness of power scaling. Super has none of that. The tone isn't really tense or consistent, the story is very wishy washy, an approriate atmosphere is not always created for the situation. Consider the tournament of power or goku vs beerus the universe could literally be destroyed but the setting is toned down so much theres not much tension. You combine it with the fact majority of the fights are very boring, poorly cheorographied and repetitive the ridiculous powerscaling is much more noticeable than it was in dbz. Other than the future trunks arc, the story didn't have any extra motive other than 'fight new strong people'. Alot of super felt like it existed to earn money or keep the story going not to give the audience an enjoyable story to enjoy
honestly i think the cracking the universe feat in the anime at least makes sense, given ssj3 basically rocks the planet and changes the weather
I dont. I personally think they were just shaking the universe and Old Kai was exaggerating as always. Especially the time he said Goku shook the WoV. Him most likely not even being able to quantify how infinite the WoV is.. Now if his assumption was backed up be hierarchy like Bills, GP or Whis then it would be plausible.
When Goku and Beerus fought they hit eachother's fists with equal force because Beerus was matching Goku as he went up.
There's an idea in physics that a perfect hit timed in perfect succession will cause an apocalypse/ destroy the world.
Mythbusters did an episode on it.
The writers really let us down
I was waiting for someone to roast the shit out of dbs's power scaling in like a 20 minute video. Thanks geekdom and MIKE FROM LSM 👌
Power scaling: messed up
My brain: it’s over 8,000
I think you and some people forget about future Trunks. Unless I'm mistaken, wasn't it stated that Future Trunks was trained by the supreme Kai to fight against Boo? I swear I thought that I read that. But I think the anime kinda glosses over Future Trunk's training and battle with Boo.
Super saiyan blue is a joke imo
It is lol ssb is the ssj substitute for getting beat by villains it was never meant to be a powerfull form its just there to entertain and get beat up untill a new form gets introduced .
Raditz , Vegeta , and Nappa: Can Destroy planet with one hand in Saiyan Saga.
But Raditz power level is 1,500.
Nappa's power level is 4,000.
While Vegeta's is 18,000 in Saiyan Saga.
Kid Goten: Can't Destroy Planet even in Kamehameha!
Kid Goten power level : 1.55 Billion😂
Kid Goten can definitely solos Saiyan Saga🤣💩
What a 🗑️ anime!!!
Can we talk about all of the times where they were "out of energy" but kept transforming and doing giant ki attacks.
Lol zenkai boots man
@@valerwolf255 It's never worked like that though. They always needed to physically recover. The ToP was less than an hour, so these guys were going from "0 energy" to damn near full in minutes.
FINALLY!! A video about this topic. 😃
Editing for better wording, I call this head-cannon but then say that I don't think it's true. I don't think this is the case, don't know why I refer to it as head-cannon when it very much isn't. It's just an idea I came up with that I'm sharing to maybe give a new perspective or offer something people may not have thought of. So again, not head-cannon, and not even really a theory. Wild speculation at best.
I actually have a head-cannon explanation for why Goku in his fight with Beerus got so powerful and did so well but didn't really surpass Beerus until the ToP. It was the ritual. Basically, people say that in order for a suppressed Beerus to bully Super Saiyan 3 Goku but then God Goku actually gave Beerus a challenge the God multiplier would need to be in the tens of millions of times base, but not necessarily I think. Something I don't believe I ever heard anyone bring up is the way the ritual works, Saiyan's pooling their energy into one. Goku went through the ritual twice, once in a failed attempt and then the successful one. This means that in between his to fights with Beerus Goku received energy from Vegeta twice, Gohan twice, Goten twice, and Trunks twice as well a Videl and Pan. This means that it was an artificially amped Goku that was getting the god form. We saw in original Z where a fresh Piccolo was roughly equal to 2nd form Frieza then later on with energy from just Gohan and Krillin Piccolo survived another fight with Frieza so imagine what kind of a boost Goku would have gotten before fighting Beerus. This would let the Super Saiyan God multiplier be much smaller and you can also say he burned through that massive power increase during the fight and returned to roughly where he started. I did the math and if each person doubled Goku's strength that is a roughly 1,024 times increase before Super Saiyan God is even applied. If you really want to go crazy you can say that the to rituals artificially and temporarily booted Goku to around Tournament of Power level to fight Beerus and after the fight his power plummeted back down. (I don't actually think this is the reason. I'm not a power scaler either, just an idea of how this could be explained. Also, I'd bet anything that people like Whis had said that the powers of Goku and Vegeta during Super grow to dwarf what Goku used against Beerus so it really can't be true but it's still neat to think about I think.)
Always great to see Mike and Geekdom together!!
Well the reason they don't go straight to blue is bc they are always trying to figure out their opponent so by the time they get to blue they can defeat their opponent, whis says this in top arc and I'm sure they bring it up before.
[Kyle Herbert] "NEXT TIME...ON GEEKDOMBALL Z!!!..."